do the seek wah, ooh wah, or wah probe use inductors, like those in conventional wahs?
this is not OT, IMHO, but oughtta be posted in the main forum;
(any answer can be edited, there... :icon_wink:)
I think I remember Mr. Vex saying somewhere that he used a twin-T circuit. I don't know for sure.
Andrew
Quote from: The Tone God on February 26, 2006, 07:23:40 PM
I think I remember Mr. Vex saying somewhere that he used a twin-T circuit. I don't know for sure.
Andrew
(http://www.cusackmusic.com/images/normal/TapTempoBoard1.jpg)
looks like an inductor at the left...
IIRC that's an LDR in the pic above. Similar to the Zombie sequencer.
Quote from: cd on February 26, 2006, 09:57:01 PM
IIRC that's an LDR in the pic above. Similar to the Zombie sequencer.
I'm 99% sure that's a Vactrol, since I just got a bag of them yesterday. Apparently the pots feed the vactrol through a 4017 decade counter, eh? Pretty cool layout. The SMD's answer a lot of my questions. :)
so is that the same type of inductor on wahs? im not trying to build it or anything, i just dont know how it works. i plan on buying any of the aforementioned zvex pedal within the next 2 days.
is it the same type of inductors used in wahs?
I'm sure that's an inductor on the left. This image comes from a website for a guy that adds a Tap Tempo to Zvex pedals. I'm pretty sure the extra PCB on top is the tap Tempo. It looks like there board below uses regular sized DIP chips. I think I recall reading on the Zvex site that the Ooh wah uses a "mild band pass filter". I sould suspect that it was some sort of twni T type.
The thing on the left is an opto so from that shot there does not look to be an inductor which would support my thought that it is a twin-T or some other inductor-less wha. I don't see in that that picture anything like a 4017 so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
Andrew
hi guys,
im working on a 8-6-4 step-sequenzer-pedal like the seek-wah/trem. schematics and PBCs commin soon ;-)
(no, i didn`t clone zackis pedals!)
greetings KHE
Whatever it is, it's gorgeous.
Quote from: The Tone God on February 27, 2006, 12:29:04 AM
The thing on the left is an opto so from that shot there does not look to be an inductor which would support my thought that it is a twin-T or some other inductor-less wha. I don't see in that that picture anything like a 4017 so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
Andrew
Yup it's an LDR and twin-t. ZV said so :)
http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=22933.msg145297#msg145297
I got the name of the sequencer I mentioned above wrong though. It's a zombie CHORUS, and the sequencer I can't remember the name of. It was from a circuit posted by Andrew, and had a funny name. Someone refresh my memory?
Quote from: cd on February 27, 2006, 09:53:24 AM
Quote from: The Tone God on February 27, 2006, 12:29:04 AM
The thing on the left is an opto so from that shot there does not look to be an inductor which would support my thought that it is a twin-T or some other inductor-less wha. I don't see in that that picture anything like a 4017 so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
Andrew
Yup it's an LDR and twin-t. ZV said so :)
http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=22933.msg145297#msg145297
I got the name of the sequencer I mentioned above wrong though. It's a zombie CHORUS, and the sequencer I can't remember the name of.
It was from a circuit posted by Andrew, and had a funny name. Someone refresh my memory?
Vanishing point.
Quote from: nelson on February 27, 2006, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: cd on February 27, 2006, 09:53:24 AM
Quote from: The Tone God on February 27, 2006, 12:29:04 AM
The thing on the left is an opto so from that shot there does not look to be an inductor which would support my thought that it is a twin-T or some other inductor-less wha. I don't see in that that picture anything like a 4017 so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
Andrew
Yup it's an LDR and twin-t. ZV said so :)
http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=22933.msg145297#msg145297
I got the name of the sequencer I mentioned above wrong though. It's a zombie CHORUS, and the sequencer I can't remember the name of.
It was from a circuit posted by Andrew, and had a funny name. Someone refresh my memory?
Vanishing point.
That's it. Thanks :)
Quote from: kusi on February 27, 2006, 01:55:49 AM
hi guys,
im working on a 8-6-4 step-sequenzer-pedal like the seek-wah/trem. schematics and PBCs commin soon ;-)
(no, i didn`t clone zackis pedals!)
greetings KHE
Be sure to let us know when you have it working, and schematics/pcbs ready... I'm very interested!
All of those Z. Vex pedals are a marvel to behold. Very clever packaging on every one that I have seen. :icon_cool:
the problem (http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=33623.msg235148#msg235148) seems to be, that it`s not clear, whether Mr. Vex used a vactrol or an optocoupler, what to do with the spare schmitt-triggers, and how to get rid of the pops when the steps occur.
it`s time to ask the master himself, after a year of experimenting
Quote from: Lurco on February 27, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
...it`s not clear, whether Mr. Vex used a vactrol or an optocoupler...
Vactrol is an optocoupler. Vactrol is just a brand name so it is like saying Kleanex and tissue paper. I personally dislike the use of the term "vactrol" for this reason.
Quote from: Lurco on February 27, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
...what to do with the spare schmitt-triggers, and how to get rid of the pops when the steps occur.
I don't know if Mr. Vex has ever stated that he uses schmitt trigger logic in his stuff. I use them to keep the circuit simple otherwise I get complaints that a circuit is "too complex" like I did with
The Original Vanishing Point despite the fact that it did not have any popping. In any case with spares you tie them off as with standard logic. I have a
Vanishing Point layout that I haven't posted that uses a 40106 which has six gates so I used one for a clock indicator.
As for clock noise follow the usual rules for removing clock ticking. I think I made a post awhile back about the steps I took to remove clock noise from such circuits. I'm sure a search will turn up some answers.
Andrew
Quote from: The Tone God on February 27, 2006, 06:56:23 PMQuote from: Lurco on February 27, 2006, 04:44:00 PM...it`s not clear, whether Mr. Vex used a vactrol or an optocoupler...
Vactrol is an optocoupler. Vactrol is just a brand name so it is like saying Kleanex and tissue paper. I personally dislike the use of the term "vactrol" for this reason.
I was referring to the brand name, since that's what Zach said he used.
I experimented with sequencers quite a bit a few years ago, and came up with some great sounding and useful results. Something like Kaustic Machine's take on the Vanishing Point should do nicely for all your sequencing needs!
http://compiler.kaustic.net/machines/vanishing-moon.html
How about a squenced opto-compressor? ;D
I haven't seen a lot of pics of the inside of ZVex's pedals. Man, you gotta admire this. Great looks on the outside, and a work of art inside. How does he fit all that stuff in that tiny box? Makes you wanna buy one, just to look inside. I might do just that :icon_wink:
i'm really anti-hype and against using whats in but i got a SHO and it really is outstanding!
btw that picture of the inside of my seek-wah doesn't show my random board. instead, the pictured board is the Jon Cusack tap-tempo board, available through cusackmusic.com
as far as clicking goes, see the green shield board? the electronics is completely shielded from the jack and switch area. also, no control wires are allowed to run back to the switch area unless they are either 1] silent or 2] running next to shielded audio wiring. there is a single point where the digital electronics ground meets the audio electronics. unfiltered power is applied to the digital section, and power is strongly filtered going into the audio electronics. bypass caps (.01 or .1) are across any digital chips. no digital signals are allowed to run parallel to any audio signals on the board. the audio realm has its own isolated ground plane (connected at one corner to the digital ground start point) and is back-filled on both sides of the board. noisy boards can sometimes be fixed with 1 or 2 oz. copper. if a digital signal must run parallel in any way to an exposed audio wire or trace, a ground trace must be run between. no digital grounds are allowed to carry current near the audio section of the board (a dead-end ground trace must be set up as a perimeter fence around the audio).
Just wanted to say it's very cool that Mr. Vex is so open to discuss the workings of his pedal and give so much insight. Thanks and beatiful design Mr. Vex.
Thanks for the insight Mr Vex.
I'm curious when the Ring Tone will be available?
I gotta say that the Ring Tone is going to be very popular... My local Music-Go-Round in Kenosha was talking about it on Sunday when I was there.... They can't wait to get one.... So, this is the second time in a couple of days I've heard it mentioned
Quote from: Bob N on February 28, 2006, 02:39:59 PM
I gotta say that the Ring Tone is going to be very popular... My local Music-Go-Round in Kenosha was talking about it on Sunday when I was there.... They can't wait to get one.... So, this is the second time in a couple of days I've heard it mentioned
hey, cool... another wisconsinite. we're few and far between 'round these parts. :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Quote from: idiot savant on February 28, 2006, 03:03:28 PM
Quote from: Bob N on February 28, 2006, 02:39:59 PM
I gotta say that the Ring Tone is going to be very popular... My local Music-Go-Round in Kenosha was talking about it on Sunday when I was there.... They can't wait to get one.... So, this is the second time in a couple of days I've heard it mentioned
hey, cool... another wisconsinite. we're few and far between 'round these parts. :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Noted. ;)
In fact, the Music-go-round in Kenosha he speaks of is the first place I ever saw ZVEX anything. The Good-N-Loud in Madison (near where I live) has a lot of local yokel homebrew pedals and amps and stuff. Never played any, but they look good. Some guy even found a source for BOSS-style enclosures- dunno if he's just harvesting broken DS-1s or what.
There is a small bit of amplifiers in there under the name
Tone King which are made locally too. Once when I was in there some guy lit into one of those things with some beat up old Telecaster and it was one of those 'drop everything you're doing, run and go look' moments. Amazing.
Unfortunately, they just opened a Guitar Center in Mad-town, so I bet that Good-N-Loud will soon crumble :(
Quote from: soggybag on February 28, 2006, 02:20:54 PM
Thanks for the insight Mr Vex.
I'm curious when the Ring Tone will be available?
so am i! we're working on it. 8^)
Hey Mr. Vex, if you're still in the mood for answering questions... do you use tantalums in all your pedals instead of electrolytics? It seems that every one I have seen has tantalums in it.
at first, back in the mid-90s, i did use tantalums for everything, figuring that would give them the longest possible life. after a while i switched to electrolytics for audio and tantalums for certain control applications, and sometimes it was based on construction as well, like when i'd forget how much space i needed for something. the bottom of a drip-shaped tantalum is narrower than the bottom of an electrolytic can. also, if you ever have to bend caps over for some reason, tantalums are more sturdy because they're solid epoxy, while an electrolytic's rubber seal can be broken by stressing the leads. because i'm constantly squeezing things into "too-small" spaces this comes in handy sometimes.
i like the sound of old SHOs with tantalums in them. i also like the sound of new ones with electrolytics. analog electronics just sounds good. 8^)
My guess is that MXR used them in the 70's for the same reasons: lying caps down flat so you could stuff a board behind the pots in a 1590B!
Thanks Z! That satisfies my curiousity. :icon_cool:
Quote from: Mark Hammer on March 01, 2006, 09:40:57 AM
My guess is that MXR used them in the 70's for the same reasons: lying caps down flat so you could stuff a board behind the pots in a 1590B!
and now i stuff parts behind IC sockets. 8^)
Quote from: zachary vex on March 01, 2006, 12:17:01 PM
and now i stuff parts behind IC sockets. 8^)
That's the rumour, and inside pots!
Dastardly Dan, You dirty guy!
RDV
Dr. Z,
Are all these still hand soldered/solderpasted by you personally, or do you have machinery and hired help to do this these days? I realize someone else paints, but I somehow can't imagine that you've picked up a soldering iron in awhile (too much other stuff to do ;))
no machinery. my trusty assembler Shoua still populates and hand-solders around 4500 units per year with his wife and sister, 18 different models in all.
i use a soldering iron weekly... but yeah, most of my work is on the phone and computer now... it's quite sad, really. *sniff*
actually, i've always got some project going, but most of that development work, as always, is done with interlocking experimenter's sockets spread all over my bench.
interesting! 4500 units a year by hand is nothing to sneeze at.
The designing part is my favourite, but hopefully that hasn't become mundane for you (it sounds like it kind of has). What do you do, just stand in front of the bench with a beater guitar, strum chords, move jumpers back and forth between circuit blocks and twist trimmers? :D
Because I'd expect just screwing around with a pile of parts and an oscilliscope could kinda take the life out of it.
But what do i know...?
Wow, 4500 units per year is impressive for three assemblers. The painters must be quite busy, too! Whew!
Quote from: phaeton on March 01, 2006, 09:55:46 PM
interesting! 4500 units a year by hand is nothing to sneeze at.
The designing part is my favourite, but hopefully that hasn't become mundane for you (it sounds like it kind of has). What do you do, just stand in front of the bench with a beater guitar, strum chords, move jumpers back and forth between circuit blocks and twist trimmers? :D
Because I'd expect just screwing around with a pile of parts and an oscilliscope could kinda take the life out of it.
But what do i know...?
development is the same thing it always was... i have an idea for something and i do some research to find the smallest/lowest current/best approach to the basic circuit ideas, and once it starts making noise i plug my 1968 prototype les paul into the circuit and connect it to my 1967 plexi and see what it sounds like. i tweek it from there, using a scope if necessary... always monitoring current to make sure it will have good battery life. the ring tone took about two months total to go from the first circuit attempt to the final three prototypes i took to the NAMM show this year. while that was in the final stages (getting proto-boards made and approved by my assembler) i developed the box of rock at the same station. i have four work stations in the lab... right now two are empty, one is messy, and one has the leftover carcasses from the ringtone and box of rock. there's also a shelf full of prototype experimenter's sockets containing half-baked ideas and pedals that "seemed like a good idea at the time." i have one that required a 3-phase oscillator (or was it quadrature?) in order to go on to the next stage of development... but part of me doesn't want to finish it because an earlier version i was testing caused Erik to hear voices, and i'm not sure that's a good thing. besides, it is another one of my extremely complex circuits that's going to be tough to shoehorn into the box, and i know it won't sell very well, so it's hard to justify the time and effort.
Quote from: zachary vex on March 02, 2006, 03:23:01 AM
besides, it is another one of my extremely complex circuits that's going to be tough to shoehorn into the box, and i know it won't sell very well, so it's hard to justify the time and effort.
Right on, Zach! that is the advantage a home DIYer has, if he wants to make a 24 stage phaser then he can!! It's very annoying when commercial considerations stop one being COMPLETELY mad. Though some go further than most.. :icon_wink:
As for hearing voices.. complex LFOs driving filters do that for me. And laundromat driers....
Paul, we have to be careful or we'll be characterized as pedalmakers who "hear it whispered in the trees." 8^)