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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: bancika on May 01, 2006, 08:00:21 PM

Title: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 01, 2006, 08:00:21 PM
Hi,
I'm thinking about making piece of software for speeding up drawing perfboard and vero layouts. It would have library with components and user would drag&drop them over board. Also, it would have it's own format and ability to save to gif/jpg.
And of course, it would be freeware :)
Would this be useful, should I waste my time on this?
Thanks,
Branislav
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 01, 2006, 08:29:43 PM
I for one think that it would be really helpful and I would really appreciate it.  I still haven't gotten the vero layout thing down yet.  Please let us all know if you do this...

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: psiico on May 01, 2006, 08:50:10 PM
I'd use it!  That sure bet the heck out of how I do it now with paper and a lot of erasing!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: gaussmarkov on May 01, 2006, 08:56:14 PM
before you do this programming, check out eagle and expresspcb.  i have been doing my perfboard layouts in eagle and recently made a site to make using eagle easier for beginners.  even if you decide to make your own program, working with eagle will give you lots of good ideas for what you want your program to do.

best wishes, gm
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: RaceDriver205 on May 01, 2006, 11:51:03 PM
Yeah, that actually sounds like a pretty damn good idea, bancika!
It shouldnt be too hard either.
I personally rarely ever use perf/vero, but many other people seem to like it. I recon you should go for it.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Unbeliever on May 02, 2006, 12:37:13 AM
I can't remember where now, but I'm sure I've seen something that implements at least some of this functionality. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but rather google around, see if there is anything and maybe get some ideas on how to make your version better.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 02, 2006, 03:22:44 AM
Would be nice...one thing though!

Make it so you can check it against a shematic...just make it so you can make sure all the connections go to the right places...that would be so great.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: RaceDriver205 on May 02, 2006, 03:32:29 AM
Yeah I think linking it with a schematic diagram makes it a big project im afraid.  :-[
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: aron on May 02, 2006, 03:35:11 AM
I'd like one for vero layouts for sure. I'd write one as well, but I have no time! darn it!

Go for it!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Coriolis on May 02, 2006, 05:36:50 AM
Go ahead with it, I say.
My personal needs for a program like that would basically just be a virtual "pen and paper".
I never do perf, but I like veroboard a lot, and it would be great to have a simple way to drag and drop components onto a piece of board,
and maybe have them snap to "grid" (holes in the board). One thing though; the shapes and packages of components that people
can get in their respective locations around the world, vary so much, that building a "complete" library is probably not realistic.
But I guess having a jumper-wire  function (like drawing a line in Express PCB, Autocad or whatever)  could solve those problems for most people.

C
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 02, 2006, 10:33:42 AM
Well, I guess I'll do it when I catch some time.
Snap to grid is a must, it would be stupid othewise.
Checking with schematic would make things much complicated. I mean, it is possible, but it would need completely new approach. Board would be represented with mathematical graph, etc etc. I'm not saying I won't do it at all, but at first time I thing that drawing will be enough.
I'll get back when I finish alpha version.
Regards,
Branislav
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 02, 2006, 12:42:59 PM
Hmm, what's the point of an extensive library. One idea would just be clicking at one hole and drag to another, and it creates a component between those holes, no matter the distance or direction. One could choose between different sizes of components and if the pins are pointing downwards or sidewards.

I bet the drag-a-component thing wouldn't be too hard to implement. What programming language are you using?

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bioroids on May 02, 2006, 12:51:58 PM
I think it's an interesting program to do.

You can model it after those "Naval Battle" games (i'm sure you can find code for that somewhere) for example this (kinda ugly) http://www.tqm.com.uy/juegos/battleship/battleship.htm

The components would take the place of the different kind of ships...

I think that linking to a schematic would be the most dificult part, but the most interesting too. Maybe you can just make it compatible with some netlist generated with other schem drawing programs, so you don't have to code the schematic editor...

Luck

Miguel
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: markm on May 02, 2006, 01:29:50 PM
before you do this programming, check out eagle and expresspcb.  i have been doing my perfboard layouts in eagle and recently made a site to make using eagle easier for beginners.  even if you decide to make your own program, working with eagle will give you lots of good ideas for what you want your program to do.

best wishes, gm

I downloaded this software from your site this weekend and was playing around with it a bit.
I'm having a problem with your library though.....I can't seem to incorporate it into the program.
However, I can see how nice this program could work if I could get the hang of it ???
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: gaussmarkov on May 02, 2006, 01:44:50 PM
before you do this programming, check out eagle and expresspcb.  i have been doing my perfboard layouts in eagle and recently made a site to make using eagle easier for beginners.  even if you decide to make your own program, working with eagle will give you lots of good ideas for what you want your program to do.

best wishes, gm

I downloaded this software from your site this weekend and was playing around with it a bit.
I'm having a problem with your library though.....I can't seem to incorporate it into the program.
However, I can see how nice this program could work if I could get the hang of it ???

cool.  i'd like to figure out what the problem is.  the program is very powerful and has a reputation for a steep learning curve.   :icon_confused:  so i'm trying to make it easier with the instructions on that site.  i think it's worth the effort, for us both, but not everyone will agree with that.

did you follow the instructions for installing and using the libraries?  they are located at

http://gaussmarkov.net/eagle/addinglibs.html (http://gaussmarkov.net/eagle/addinglibs.html)

also, you can click on the "adding libraries" menu button when you are in the eagle section of the site.  if you tried this, i'd like to know where things went wrong for you.  if not, i hope you will check it out.

if you are willing to run the issue down, which would be great, send me a pm so that we do not hijack this thread.  :icon_biggrin:  i'm willing to clarify, improve, ... based on whatever feedback i can get.  and i have some more stuff in the pipeline, to lead the user through more steps.

--gm
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 02, 2006, 04:51:24 PM
I'm using Delphi 7.
Still not sure about component placement. Idea of clicking on two holes isn't bad. Of couse, they would have to be in the same row/column. But that rule can't be applied to IC's and transistors, so I'd have to make double work. I think it's better that way...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 02, 2006, 05:14:08 PM
they would have to be in the same row/column

Says who? ;) That would be the best part of hole-to-hole component placing. One can place components diagonally for even more compact layout. It sure won't look as neat as a 90-degree-layout but it would sure help making things more compact. And your program more flexible.

But that rule can't be applied to IC's and transistors, so I'd have to make double work. I think it's better that way...

Yes, the semiconductors would have to be drag-and-drop. I guess that would be much easier to implement than the component placement.

Take the time to build a good, flexible and easy-to-use program, do not be hasty. I can help you out with graphical side of things if you need any help.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 02, 2006, 05:47:57 PM
Yeah, it can be handy to make *any* angle available BUT...then I have to
a) pre-draw component images in any angle available (about 20 angles would be enough) which is silly
b) make routine that will rotate component image at any given angle, which isn't that hard
Both options have same problem: rotated image looks bad if it isn't anti-aliased, which makes things additionally complicated.
Do you have any other idea how to make rotated components?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: RaceDriver205 on May 02, 2006, 08:19:55 PM
Quote
Yes, the semiconductors would have to be drag-and-drop. I guess that would be much easier to implement than the component placement.
Well, you could have it so you click all the holes (i.e 8 holes for a TL072), and then press enter and it makes a box around to holes to resemeble an IC? That way you can do transistors and transformers etc without the need for libraries.
A tip: make it as simple as possible - complex things have a habit of not getting done!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 03, 2006, 12:08:31 AM
Yeah, it can be handy to make *any* angle available BUT...then I have to
a) pre-draw component images in any angle available (about 20 angles would be enough) which is silly
b) make routine that will rotate component image at any given angle, which isn't that hard
Both options have same problem: rotated image looks bad if it isn't anti-aliased, which makes things additionally complicated.
Do you have any other idea how to make rotated components?

'b' was what I was thinking of. Diagonal components aren't as widely used anyway, so you can leave it un-anti-aliased and i guess it'll be okay. It will look a tad jaggedy but I guess it wouldn't bother anyone.

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: markm on May 03, 2006, 12:34:13 AM
before you do this programming, check out eagle and expresspcb.  i have been doing my perfboard layouts in eagle and recently made a site to make using eagle easier for beginners.  even if you decide to make your own program, working with eagle will give you lots of good ideas for what you want your program to do.

best wishes, gm

I downloaded this software from your site this weekend and was playing around with it a bit.
I'm having a problem with your library though.....I can't seem to incorporate it into the program.
However, I can see how nice this program could work if I could get the hang of it ???

when I was on your site this weekend, I think there is a broken link to either the eagle site or your libraries.....can't really remember but, I will be back again to check it out. Besides, I'm building your Red Llama :icon_exclaim:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 05:38:38 AM
Here's first screenshot. At the moment in only draws board of given dimensions and writes title, but that's something :)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software.gif)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: RaceDriver205 on May 03, 2006, 07:04:57 AM
Cool! wheres .yu?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: gaussmarkov on May 03, 2006, 09:46:24 AM
Besides, I'm building your Red Llama :icon_exclaim:

you're gonna love it!  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 03, 2006, 10:14:22 AM
Here's first screenshot. At the moment in only draws board of given dimensions and writes title, but that's something :)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software.gif)

Wow, you're quick.

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 10:26:06 AM
.yu is ex yugoslavia. Now it's Serbia and Montenegro...but soon it will be Serbia only :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 01:05:02 PM
Look ma, I can graw jumpers :)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software1.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software1.gif)
How important is to have source files you can modify? I wouldn't waste my time if nobody will use that. Is it enough to have "draw-save-forget" method or not?
Thanks
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 03, 2006, 01:12:22 PM
Actually I think it's pretty important to have files that you can modify.  Many times a layout is posted and then found to have a mistake.  It would be much easier to correct a layout you've already done than to have to totally recreate it.

My $.02
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 01:28:34 PM
Makes sense, OK then. I'll derive my format from XML. It's not hard to do, just boring :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 03, 2006, 02:01:50 PM
Bancika,

I know you're doing this on a PC in Delphi, but any chance that it will be portable to OSX?  I'm not familiar with Delphi at all so I don't know if it would port over or not.  Is there someting similar that would port over to *nix?

Just wondering,
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 02:08:43 PM
Don't think so. There's delphi equivalent only on Linux (it's called Kylix), but I don't have neither it nor Linux, so we're stuck. And I'm not good enough in other languages to make it in decent time. If someone here has them I'll send souce when it's done so it can be compiled for linux...maybe I'll even find someone over here.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 03, 2006, 05:29:18 PM
You forgot to mention two most important features - export as .gif and/or .png and/or .jpg and print.

Can you assign the file extension yourself? I'd recommend either .diy or .aron. :D (or seriously speaking, you could make it save and open two file types - .perf and .vero. Or would that be too much of a hassle...)

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 05:57:04 PM
Yes, I used .diy extension :) We think the same way. Of course I can assign it myself. I will make single file installation which will register new file type when installed.
There's no need for two different fily types because everything is same but board display.
I think I mentioned export to gif/jpg/bmp before, it's not a problem. Maybe gif because it's not native supported by Delphi, but I think I can manage it. For png I'm not sure. Printing is also included.

If anyone wants to participate I would need two things (in bot 32x32 and 16x16px):
a) icon for file type
b) icon for program

if nobody wants to make some I'll use one of "regular" icons, but it would be cool to have nice icons.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 03, 2006, 06:33:59 PM
If anyone wants to participate I would need two things (in bot 32x32 and 16x16px):
a) icon for file type
b) icon for program

I'm on it!

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 06:58:47 PM
You can create bmp/psd files, I can convert to .ico
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bioroids on May 03, 2006, 07:34:23 PM
I think this is turning out very cool. Keep up the good work!

Miguel
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 03, 2006, 08:05:30 PM
I fnished jumpers and stuff, also loading/saving files
Here's last shot http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software2.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software2.gif)
I'm thinking of putting component library on the bottom
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: mac on May 04, 2006, 12:47:06 AM
well, this looks much, much pretty than my photoshop library  ;D

mac

10 home
20 sweet
30 go to 10
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 04, 2006, 02:04:59 AM
Bancika,

You are a genius!  That looks great, I can't wait to play with it...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 04, 2006, 02:24:02 AM
I want a Mac port too :(


Heres an idea for checking w/ the schematic.  Instead of loading a schematic image, just make a little frame off to the left that you can draw out the schematic with, with all the parts, etc.  That would be fairly easy to check, no?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 04, 2006, 07:17:00 AM
Well, I was thinking about entering schematic manually. That's hard enough. Importing from existing image file would be so hard that it's almost imposible. You need to recognize all letters, components and connections. WAAAAY too much work.

It's not much likely to make Mac port, because:
a) I don't have Mac
b) there isn't delphi compiler for mac

Thanks hairyandy :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 04, 2006, 08:38:37 AM
Here's test version. As far as I'm concerned jumper thing is finished. Try it and tell me if you have some suggestions. For all other components there will be the same "engine", but this one had to be done separate.
Link (280KB) (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)

Also, don't try Export and  Print buttons, as well as components other than jumper. It's not done yet
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 04, 2006, 10:01:45 AM
I love the looks of the prog. Especially the parts list.

One thing though: after you've placed a component, it should stay in that mode, I don't have the time to click the same button after every component I place. :D

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 04, 2006, 10:08:30 AM
I guess you're right. I changed design. Now it looks much cooler (in my eyes)  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 04, 2006, 07:28:05 PM
I finally finished ultra-giga-mega-hi-tech rotation engine  :icon_lol:. I've tested it with resistors, but it will work with caps, diodes and maybe something more. New screenshot http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software3.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software3.gif)
Tell me what you think
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 04, 2006, 08:02:45 PM
Looks nice!  I'm going to go load it up on my PC in a second...damn I want a Mac port!


Btw, you're been added to our links pages, cool site...your link is on http://stompboxmods.com/links.php
We'd appreciate a link back :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 04, 2006, 08:51:46 PM
You're on the right track.

I agree that it just stay in the same mode until we change it to a new one. That was my only concern, as everything else works well.

I like being able to change the name to J5 after entering J1 and J2 for example and seing the program give J3 for the next one. You did well there.

I can't wait to see it completed... I know. It takes time. But you're fast.

Thanks for the work.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 05, 2006, 03:02:20 AM
Bancika,

That's just completely awesome!  I can't wait to start making layouts!!!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 05, 2006, 03:05:37 AM
Tried it out, very nice :)
Good work. 

A PCB designer might be nice too while you're at it...don't think it would incorporate much extra work either.  It would be excellent to be able to design the PCB with components drawn out, and then print it out for transfer to photo paper, etc.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 05:01:54 AM
rockgardenlove, I've just put your link on my site. Thanks.
http://
Here's last shot (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software4.gif)
I already changed "mode thing", now it stays until changed. Now I'll make renaming components possible.
Thanks everybody for involvement. I'll make better piece of software if I hear more comments from users.
Also, note component orientation (important for diodes, electros...). Was little tricky to do, but hey I'm a math student :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: RaceDriver205 on May 05, 2006, 07:22:53 AM
Dude, good work. You put that together pretty quick.
Dont you have to be able to cut tracks on a strip-board?
I.e ICs?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 08:43:36 AM
Don't you see a trace cut?  :icon_rolleyes:
It's on a:2 hole

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 05, 2006, 08:57:59 AM
Hmm I don't think I notice a "Delete" function there...

[edit] Just noticed it could be done in the parts list. Which is good.[edit]

It would be cool to assign values to components too. Propably not on the layout, the values sould be shown in the parts list.

[edit2] Here's some more ideas. A "move" button would be cool. Horizontally or vertically with arrow buttons in either move mode or when the component is selected in the list.

And a Component List Exporter is a must-have. It would take all the caps and list them under a "Caps:" column (with values, of course), same with resistors and other components.[edit2]

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 10:04:19 AM
You can delete components with "del" button on keyboard. I'll add option in component list.
Also, I plan to put component values, don't worry :)
I will put values in list and also when image is rendered they will be printed below layout
Cheers
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on May 05, 2006, 10:16:09 AM
That's looking GREAT, Bancika!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 05, 2006, 11:56:46 AM
I agree with Peter, this is looking amazing!  ;D ;D ;D

I'll try it on VPC7 to see if we Mac folks can use it.  I'll let you know of my progress...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 12:13:40 PM
I just added "thingy" with components values, now there are two rows in component list (now called Explorer, thanks Jim :)) and I'll make it ask user after saving project if he'd like to upload it to layout gallery. I plan to put one on my site.
I'll post shot when I do few more things, but I have to study now, so it will be later this evening.
Cheers
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 05, 2006, 12:42:14 PM
I just loaded the program up under Windows 98SE in VPC6 on my G4 Powerbook and it works like a champ!  Is there a version of it with all components working yet?  I can't wait to start using this!  Bancika, you ARE the man... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 01:13:23 PM
Nope, only resistors, caps, diodes, jumpers and cuts. I'll make electrolytes today, since they will be drawn in the sam manner as others.
Great to hear that it works on mac :)

Update: here's new shot. Important changes are electros and new Explorer
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software5.gif)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 05, 2006, 03:03:24 PM
Lookin' great!

I'll get those icons ready as soon as possible. They'll be on your desk first thing tomorrow morning. Do you fancy a start-up sceen too, perhaps? E-mail me the text for it, I'll do the visual part.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: mac on May 05, 2006, 04:47:14 PM
I guess the code is not so difficult, and could easily be transported to a mac platform, ie, realbasic (realsoftware.com) or similar, or translated to java.

mac
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 05, 2006, 05:14:28 PM
It doesn't need startup screen at the moment because it loads very fast (less than a second).
and Mac, if you think it's easy to convert to mac I'll send you code, so you translate it. At the moment it has 1100 lines, so good luck :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 06, 2006, 03:37:52 AM
Do it Mac!  I beg of you!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 03:53:55 AM
It would be nice, just to warn you: it won't be easy. There are many platform dependent components which can't be used anywhere else as well as few API calls. Why bothering when it can work on emulator. Since Apple switched to Intel processors, these emulators should get only better.
Anyway, I'm going out of town for two days so here's latest version. Try it and post your comments so I can change/add things when I come back.
link (410KB) (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
Good thing is, I don't think that final version will be above 500KB + 300KB for setup (if I make it in self extracting ZIP it will be about 50KB for setup).

Edit: which color should I use for transistors, ICs and trimmers? :)
Also, are there any other components beside listed that I should include

Edit2: someone please try printing. I don't have a printer so I have no clue if it works :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: brad on May 06, 2006, 04:20:23 AM
Great work bancika!  :D

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 06, 2006, 04:26:43 AM
It would be nice, just to warn you: it won't be easy. There are many platform dependent components which can't be used anywhere else as well as few API calls. Why bothering when it can work on emulator. Since Apple switched to Intel processors, these emulators should get only better.
Anyway, I'm going out of town for two days so here's latest version. Try it and post your comments so I can change/add things when I come back.
link (410KB) (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
Good thing is, I don't think that final version will be above 500KB + 300KB for setup (if I make it in self extracting ZIP it will be about 50KB for setup).

Edit: which color should I use for transistors, ICs and trimmers? :)
Also, are there any other components beside listed that I should include

Edit2: someone please try printing. I don't have a printer so I have no clue if it works :)

I'll check the update tomorrow :)

And I for one, can't afford virtual PC, and I have a PPC Mac, no Intel for me yet.  And why make an installer?  I find them useless and they gunk up your computer...thats one of my favorite things about Macs is that all the applications are self contained, they can't get all fragmented up, etc.  I say leave it as just an .exe :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: idiot savant on May 06, 2006, 04:35:30 AM
first let me say fantastic job!
a piece of software like this would make layouts a breeze! :o

my one suggestion, as far as the perfboard layouts are concerned, it would be nice to be able to place under board traces(perhaps use a different color so you can tell it is an under board connection). as it is you cant re-use the pads for connections. only one leg of a component can be placed per hole. so there's no way to join components together.

this isn't a problem for vero since the traces are already there to join placed parts together.

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 05:05:15 AM
Well, I plan to change that "only one lead per hole" rule, so it won't be a problem.
And about under board traces, I'll think. Since all these components are drawn with same engine I'd have to figure out way to incorporate it without major modification.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: calpolyengineer on May 06, 2006, 05:17:54 AM
Where have I been? I don't know how this happened but I just now found this thread. I have got to say bancika, you are the man! The only request I have is schematic checking, though I can understand if that is too much of a problem. I think it would be possible to check the layout against a netlist rather than have your own schematic editor. Netlists just label all of the nodes in a circuit and note which pins on the components are attached to what nodes. In your program, the jumpers are the nodes. I think with a little ingenuity, this is completely possible. Good luck, and most of all thanks for all you have done.

-Joe
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 05:28:21 AM
Thanks  :icon_cool:
I'll think about that. What about this: "connection test" which will for given two holes test and if they are connected it should highlight signal path. This isn't what you guys ask for, but it should speed up verification and not so hard to do
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: syndromet on May 06, 2006, 08:29:53 AM
I tried printing, and image was realy tiny un a corner. Great program, however
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 10:43:35 AM
Ok, I'll fix that. Thank
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 01:47:14 PM
I need you opinion on IC editing. I wanted to make is as simple as possible for both me and user. So concept is simple: user clicks on first and last pin. First pin is determined with click order: first clicked is first pin. Here's shot
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software6.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software6.gif)
What do you think about that? Is it necessary to draw IC pins?
Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 06, 2006, 01:54:09 PM
The ICs look great.

A few more "bugs":

If the board gets too big, one should be able to scroll around, now the board just goes out of the reach. This would also be useful for people with tiny displays.

I currently don't find the perfboard mode effective, since it doesn't let me create a jumper from the hole where a component is placed. With perfboards, one usually uses the connector of a component to connect to other pads. From what I see, the tools for perfboards and veroboards should be slightly different.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 02:10:54 PM
Here's updated version of ICs, I had to do pins anyway :)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software7.gif)
I'll think about scrolling...
and for perfboard, I know it's useless now, I'll enable more connections to one pad ASAP.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 06, 2006, 02:35:11 PM
Another idea:

For perfboard, it might be nice to be able to flip the board upside down, so you can see all the things you jumper underneith.  Its almost useless without this because 95% of the connections are underneith the board, and you can't see them because the parts are fully opaque.


Might be a good idea to have trimpots, and places where wires can leave the boards too :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 02:58:58 PM
Wire can leave board if you use jumper. Click on any hole that's on border of board and then click outside of board.
I'll think about rotation for perfboard...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: calpolyengineer on May 06, 2006, 06:20:05 PM
rather than flipping the board over, you could just make another tool that is identical to the jumper tool except make it a different color. I think that would be extremely easy to do.

-Joe
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 06:42:09 PM
Or maybe transparent line instead of solid color. That's because those underboard traces usually go below some component. If line is solid it can cover component name or something, so transparent one seems to be a solution
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: lchyi on May 06, 2006, 06:42:39 PM
Sweet piece of work!

Anyway, a suggestion for me is to enlarge the radius where you can click. Instead of a tiny circle, can you make it a square grid so that the user can just hover "around" the point and click? That'd make things a lot easier for me b/c I always seem to miss the points with my clumsy mouse hands.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: brad on May 06, 2006, 06:57:54 PM
Not sure why you'd want an IC running horizontally along the tracks  ???
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 06, 2006, 07:13:28 PM
Well, it's useless for vero but not for perfboard...you can put horizontal ICs there.
I finally finished all components I planned to make for now. If you think I should add some let me know. I also redesigned them a little.
As for scroll, I reied but it's hard thing to do (believe it or not), so I added two little arrows on the bottom. When you click on it, that menu panel or explorer slides out to give more space if needed. With that you can easily make boards up to 40 holes wide on 1024x768px monitor.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software8.gif)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on May 06, 2006, 07:37:09 PM
Absolutely fantastic! 8) 8) 8)

One suggestion for an additional component would be an 8 pin inline chip package. They're less common but I think they complement tight layouts and vero quite well.

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 07, 2006, 11:41:31 AM
Good idea, will do it :) not only for 8 pin, as other components it will be determined with first and last pin
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 07, 2006, 01:50:42 PM
Sweet piece of work!

Anyway, a suggestion for me is to enlarge the radius where you can click. Instead of a tiny circle, can you make it a square grid so that the user can just hover "around" the point and click? That'd make things a lot easier for me b/c I always seem to miss the points with my clumsy mouse hands.

I second that.

Oh, and don't forget trimpots too.

Lookin' great thus far! :)

-----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Connoisseur of Distortion on May 07, 2006, 02:53:55 PM
i second the request for a bigger hole to select... maybe make the whole pad a button?

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 07, 2006, 03:11:33 PM
^I agree too.

I'd like trimpots though too...might that be possible?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: mac on May 07, 2006, 04:44:18 PM
It doesn't need startup screen at the moment because it loads very fast (less than a second).
and Mac, if you think it's easy to convert to mac I'll send you code, so you translate it. At the moment it has 1100 lines, so good luck :)

... If only I had the time I will ... :icon_sad:

I was serious about that. I'm a mac user since 85, have a lot of experience on physical simulations, so 1100 lines is something I would expect from a project like this.

mac
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 07, 2006, 07:45:13 PM
It's more than 1500 now :)
I'll put trimpots and make pads bigger
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: tommy.genes on May 08, 2006, 09:16:16 AM
This is shaping up quite nicely, but I do have one more comment.

It is sometimes necessary to locate trace cuts or jumpers underneath components, especially ICs. I tested and wasn't able to do that in your last posted version.

-- T. G. --
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 08, 2006, 10:22:17 AM
well, trace cuts are drawn above all other components, so there's no problem with them. as for jumpers I don't know :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: cab42 on May 08, 2006, 02:34:01 PM
Bancika,

I'm very impressed. I have followed this thread but haven't been able to try until today. Delphi rules  8)

Thanks  :icon_cool:
I'll think about that. What about this: "connection test" which will for given two holes test and if they are connected it should highlight signal path. This isn't what you guys ask for, but it should speed up verification and not so hard to do

This feature would be extremely cool. A variation could be a node checker. Click on a component in the vero layout and highlight (or list) which components are connected . This is how I manually check my layouts.

Regards

Carsten


Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 08, 2006, 03:00:02 PM
great idea, worth thinking :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: tommy.genes on May 08, 2006, 04:54:24 PM
well, trace cuts are drawn above all other components, so there's no problem with them. as for jumpers I don't know :)

I just tested again. The easy "work-around" is to put the trace cuts down first, then whatever component over top. The trace cut stays on top as you say, so you can still see it. I was trying to put a trace cut under a component that was already in place before, which is why I was having trouble.

[edit] Works with jumpers too. [/edit]

-- T. G. --
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 10, 2006, 03:36:57 AM
So, any possibility of a PCB designer...?  It would be nice to be able to start with just a blank area(with snap to dots) and then be able to draw your own traces and then put the components on...that would be very cool  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 05:19:42 AM
Well, I've been thinking about it also. See, the main point is to make unique drawing/saving/designing system for all board types. The only difference with PCB would be adding traces and solder pads. Traces would be the same as jumpers just thicker. And pads would be new component. I think it's feasible :) Why not
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 10:00:44 AM
You mean something like this?
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software9.gif)
 ;D
I'll make it hide some components that are not used with certain layouts (trace cut with perf and pcb, trace with vero, etc)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 10, 2006, 10:15:56 AM
That's looking awesome Bancika!  Could you please post a link to the lastest version, if you have one compiled of course.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 10, 2006, 10:25:20 AM
Wow, PCB support too! Great! This is coming along nicer and faster than I would have thought.

One should be able to create a trace "knee" (a 90-degree turn) without a solder pad. And of course use the same point-to-point system as with components and jumpers. Hmm, a modifiabler solder pad size and trace width would be excellent too.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Xavier on May 10, 2006, 10:31:42 AM
Whoa, I didn't see this thread before.

Bancika, it looks great !!!!

I have tried the last compiled version, and so far it's a great piece of software !!! I expect to see quite a few more vero layouts from now on .....

Keep up the good work please.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 10:43:23 AM
Tnx  8)
Jim: Well, you can make "trace knees" using two traces with no problem. At any angle

I'm now working on printing directly to PnP, so I'll post lates compiled version later today
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 10, 2006, 10:56:19 AM
Wow, PCB support too! Great! This is coming along nicer and faster than I would have thought.

One should be able to create a trace "knee" (a 90-degree turn) without a solder pad. And of course use the same point-to-point system as with components and jumpers. Hmm, a modifiabler solder pad size and trace width would be excellent too.

------------
Jimbo


Yeah, also, it might be nice if for the PCB the snap-to dots were closer together, sometimes you need to make a very compact PCB.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: mat on May 10, 2006, 11:23:45 AM
Hi!

Does this software support windows 2000 ? It works on my hope XP system but not on the Windows 2000. The arrow does not change in to hand when moving over a hole to put a part on.

Thank You bancika for the great tool  :icon_cool:

mat
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 11:31:40 AM
mat, it should work under win2K, it's very similar to winXP. In fact, I didn't use any version dependent code for it.
There is one "bug" that doesn't allow two leads into same hole, maybe you had that case. (I'll fix that).

rockgardenlove, it's difficult to make denser snap-to-dots because that would break "unique design" concept which now works. C'mon, 2.54mm is close enough :) As for moddable trace width and pad size, it's ok. I can use "Value" field for that. Good suggestion.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 10, 2006, 11:39:37 AM
Bancika, not that it probably matters much but for the sake of programming knowledge, it doesn't seem to work with Windows 98SE either.  At least under VPC on my Powerbook, which may be part of the problem.  I'm having the same problem as Mat, it doesn't allow me to click on any hole.  I can select a part but it won't let me place it.  I need to configure my XP installation in VPC for drag n' drop so I can check out if that works any better.  I'll report back and let you know.  Honestly, I don't think it should have to work with anything pre-XP as most people should be running that by now anyway. (sorry Mat!)

When I reported earlier that it was working under VPC on my Mac I jumped the gun.  I'll do some more testing and get back to you...

Thanks again Bancika, this program is going to be baddass!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 12:28:51 PM
Ok, there's a chance that it might work after I rewrite hole detection routine. It's very stupid now.
And I'll send it to my friend to test it on WinME
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 01:26:36 PM
Ok, here's new build for testers http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
New stuff to test:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: ezanker on May 10, 2006, 02:32:12 PM
Very nice program!!!

I 've been playing around with the latest version and noticed that if you resize the board smaller eliminating holes that are already used, the component stays in the white space:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/ezanker/resize.jpg)

Probably these components should be automatically deleted.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: pyrop on May 10, 2006, 03:37:52 PM
Hi!

Does this software support windows 2000 ? It works on my hope XP system but not on the Windows 2000. The arrow does not change in to hand when moving over a hole to put a part on.

Thank You bancika for the great tool  :icon_cool:

mat
I had the same problem running it on XP but all is fine with the latest version.

Anyways great work Bancika.
Now that you have added PCB layouts to it I will be using this program all the time.
Bravo!

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 10, 2006, 03:55:30 PM
Everything is working swell!

A note about image rendering: enable two rendering modes for PCB: with parts and without. Reversing would also some in handy when printing on pnp. Either enable the parts/print as different modes or together in one render.

I have a feeling this prog will gain lots of fame around here and will be our main thing to draw layouts. Great work, bancika! Can't wait to see more of it.

[edit] When I double click and edit the component's name, it doesn't change in the Explorer. I also don't like the fact that it automatically deletes the previous Component Value as I double click to edit it.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 04:46:01 PM
Well, there is PnP print, I don't see why would someone need PnP render when it's only used to print for transfer. My plan is to make .DIY format exchangable and not image format because it will have some advantages:
-you can easily modify layout
-for some new features I plan ("node connection checker", or something)
-you have layout, parts list and PnP transfer in same file
-.DIY file is approx. 10 times smaller than GIF and even more than JPG
So for layout gallery I plan to make on my site, .DIY filles will be available for download.
As for reversing, it's not needed for PnP. Orientation is the same for PnP transfer and board layout when you look board from side whith no copper. I'm 99% sure about that  ;D
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 10, 2006, 04:54:32 PM
I'd like a renderer too...sometimes I put my PCB's on a memory stick and have them printed at a print shop...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 10, 2006, 05:14:52 PM
Oh yeah sorry, no reversing needed.

But it would still be cool to export it as an image. Perhaps I need to print several on one page. It would be helluva easier to implement a PnP image export than to start handling several .diy's at once.

Then again, I use transparent film instead of PnP, so I wouldn't know, would I?  :D

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 05:17:15 PM
Ok, I'll think about that  ;)
I just implented Text entry so user can add comments or something (and for labeling outside connections)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 10, 2006, 05:29:21 PM
Sorry for the frequent posting.

About the pad and trace selecting. Okay, as components carry numbers on them, selecting them from the list is simple. But if you've got a whole bunch of pads and traces on your PCB layout, it's a pain in the bum to select them one by one in the Explorer searching and hoping for the right one to turn red. Would a usual arrow-modebe difficult to put in? A select-mode. So you could point and click on a component or a trace or a pad and hit delete. I understand if it's too difficult but something has to be done... I can't think of any other solution right now, any suggestions?

-----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 10, 2006, 05:48:47 PM
The thing is: everything is painted on a canvas - one visual component. So it's difficult to analyze layout structure in order to find out what's under mouse point, especially because there can be more than one component on the same place (e.g. trace cut and jumper). Maybe it will be possible sometimes, but for now I don't think it's too complicated to locate your pad. List is sorted by type, so you need only to click on first and press down arrow on keyboard to select next. With 100 pads it shouldn't take more than one minute, worst case scenario :)
Any chance of making icons soon? I made file association, so now double click on files opens it.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 10, 2006, 06:08:26 PM
I can make an icon...what sizes?  16x16 and 32x32?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 11, 2006, 06:54:00 AM
Here are current icons. Main icon is made by JimRayden (thanks!), and I made file icons.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/icons.gif)
if someone can do better just do it :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 11, 2006, 09:27:11 AM
I messaged you about some more ideas on the main icon.

I'd advise putting a chip on the filetype icon, it'll be clearer than the resistor variant. I can try it out in a few hours or so.

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 11, 2006, 03:27:29 PM
Hey guys, I need your help choosing main program icon.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/icon2.gif)
I'm kinda indifferent, so we'll count votes and decite which one to use :)
Tnx  ;)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 11, 2006, 03:38:36 PM
For the sake of justice, I'll remain indifferent too. ;)

[edit] whoops, I pushed it to page seven... everybody, GO BACK TO PAGE 6 AND VOTE :icon_lol:

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: John Lyons on May 11, 2006, 03:40:20 PM
I like the yellow and green one on the right.

Maybe you already addresed this but how do you rotate components after they have been placed?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 11, 2006, 03:58:40 PM
At the moment it is not possible to modify component posistion and orientation after it's placed on board.
I'm thinking of nice solution for that problem :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 11, 2006, 04:10:20 PM
Hmm, we've got point-to-point component placement here, I don't know if rotating would work here very well... What about selecting one end of a component pin by clicking on it and somehow assign it to a new hole.

One thing would sure come in handy... flipping the polarised components like el.caps and diodes. Simple and useful.

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: calpolyengineer on May 11, 2006, 04:21:13 PM
I too am voting for the yellow one. Bancika, every time you release a new version, it is even better than I anticipate. Keep up the good work!

-Joe
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 11, 2006, 04:32:03 PM
So 2:0 for yellow one :)
about editing, maybe it's not bad idea to add context menu item "Move" or something, and when you click it program lets you select two (or one, depending on component) node that will move component. I'm little vague, hope you understand :)

edit, I've uploaded new version to test installer, opening .diy files from explorer and brand new component replacement :)
right click on component in explorer and select replace to move it to another location (or rotate it, or change name/value)

http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: markm on May 11, 2006, 05:22:25 PM
 :icon_wink:
I like the black/yellow myself.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 11, 2006, 05:31:04 PM
Great, bancika! Although, when replacing the component, the pop-up info screen should include the previous information, so I could change the component placement and not rewrite the values, just press "OK". If a value change is necessary, one could replace the value.

This thing is getting better and better with every beta.

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 11, 2006, 06:06:23 PM
Well, at the moment popup window contains only old name, but not value. It will be fixed.
markm: where did you find black/yellow  ??? :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 11, 2006, 06:58:13 PM
I vote yellow/green as well...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 11, 2006, 07:10:31 PM
Yellow :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 11, 2006, 08:38:07 PM
yellow...

Btw, tonight, I began to enter the layout of a stripboard I began to wire last year. It's 40W x 21H and it goes inside a Hammond box. So I want to mark the traces I want to cut in the corners to fit the board into the box.

The problem is I can't cut the traces on the 40th column. Some people may not have a use for that... but I do  :icon_wink:

Added: In reality, I just realised I can't add any components on that 40th column. Now, that's a problem.

Can you fix that?

Thanks,

 Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: SuzukiScottie on May 12, 2006, 04:14:16 AM
Excellent little utility! Many many thanks!  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 12, 2006, 04:35:38 AM
yellow...

Btw, tonight, I began to enter the layout of a stripboard I began to wire last year. It's 40W x 21H and it goes inside a Hammond box. So I want to mark the traces I want to cut in the corners to fit the board into the box.

The problem is I can't cut the traces on the 40th column. Some people may not have a use for that... but I do  :icon_wink:

Added: In reality, I just realised I can't add any components on that 40th column. Now, that's a problem.

Can you fix that?

Thanks,

 Gilles

Thank you for pointing on that bug, will fix it :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 12, 2006, 01:18:52 PM
Gilles C, did you try with latest version? On my computer if works just fine placing components in 40th column. Can someone else confirm this?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: ezanker on May 12, 2006, 02:28:23 PM
Hi Bancika,
I tried to render an image of a perfboard layout today and I get a "Color Table Overflow" error.  I can send you the DIY file if it will help you debug, or just post the XML text in a PM.  Let me know.

Also, when I reopen the saved .diy, the layout drawing looks good but the explorer list comes up empty.

I believe I am using the latest version (one with the installer).

Thanks,
Erik
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 12, 2006, 02:33:58 PM
ezanker, thank you for pointing that bug. Problem is GIF compression routine. I was hoping that image will not have more than 256 colors so there's no any compression. Guess I was wrong :) I will fix it till next release.
Btw, I just added In Line ICs :)

Edit: send me .DIY file so I can test it when fixed (use submit function when you save file)
Cheers
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 12, 2006, 03:38:32 PM

Also, when I reopen the saved .diy, the layout drawing looks good but the explorer list comes up empty.


As soon as you add a component, the whole list pops back into action. A fix still needed though.

-----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: SuzukiScottie on May 12, 2006, 04:24:14 PM
I vote yellow! :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: calpolyengineer on May 12, 2006, 06:20:40 PM
I'm glad yellow is winning, I like voting for a winner.

-Joe
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 12, 2006, 08:08:42 PM
I will fix that bug with list update, nothing serious.
Since green/black combination got no votes (reminds me on Black Adder episode when they cheat on elections) I will leave yellowish version as official program icon. Thanks to everyone who voted :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 12, 2006, 11:28:12 PM
I am pretty sure I was using the latest version when I experimented the 40th column bug. It was also doing the same thing with 60 columns.

But I just tried the latest version in an hotel room computer that has internet access, and it worked ok.

I'll check the version I have on my laptop when I get back home.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 13, 2006, 08:27:04 AM
Done trimmers!
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software10.gif)
Any other component suggestions?
As for 40th column bug, can someone confirm it please.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 13, 2006, 08:55:17 AM
Great work so far but how about inductors, transformers and valves.

Keep the Faith

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 13, 2006, 08:57:07 AM
oh and led/ldr thingies , Vactrols? And a bike and a scalectrix!

Cancel last two but the vactrol is a genuine request

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 13, 2006, 09:03:39 AM
Transformer is great idea. For LED/LDR  you can use IC, just change name :)
As for inductors, I'm not sure how to draw them, any idea?
For valves, they are not mounted on board, so I don't thing they are necessary.
This is the first time I've ever heard about vactrols, what a heck is that?  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 13, 2006, 09:50:03 AM
sorry they are the led/ldr package that you buy from small bear etc opto couplers i think their proper name is

http://www.banzaieffects.com/home.php?cat=311 (http://www.banzaieffects.com/home.php?cat=311)

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 13, 2006, 10:05:14 AM
Oh that neverending stream of features...

By the way, there are several types of trimmers. You might want to do the trimmers like IC's because there are also the ones that lie down on the board. I think they are 5x3 holes. I don't know about others but I use both of them.

(http://www.elfa.se/images/highres/h5566.jpg)

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 13, 2006, 10:09:03 AM
yeah, I know. I have those 5x3 ones. I'll see what can be done

Update: I've just added horizontal trimmers (5x3). It's the same component, just program decides if trimmer is horizontal or vertical according to hole position. And to make things easier, for transistors and trimmers when you click on source hole all available holes turn to light green, so user where to click. It can get complicated with trimmers, because there are maximum 16 available holes for destination.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 13, 2006, 03:26:59 PM
Hmm, there are a few different types of trimmers...can you make some different ones too?  Like some 3 in a row pin setups, etc?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 13, 2006, 03:47:03 PM
Damn, and I was happy with these two types. Who uses other ones, anyway :)
And instead that pretty invisible hint box on the bottom, now I have ballon hint that jumps to give information on placing components. It can be turned off, once you get it right.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 14, 2006, 12:02:15 AM
Here is an update about the bug I mentioned.

I am indeed using the latest version. But I found something else.

If I use the program in the original window size as choosen by the program, it works well. But if I maximise the window to full screen, I can't add any component to the last column on the right, for width sizes of 20, 40 or 60. But it works for width sizes of 19, 21, 39, 41, etc...

So the reason I thought it was not working only with a width of 40 is because I was not maximising the window for width of 20, but I had to do it for a width of 40.

Gilles

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 03:54:48 AM
Hmm, I just tried it and couldn't replicate bug. Strange...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 14, 2006, 04:00:54 AM
Hehe, uh, while you're at it, a schematics drawer would be nice too  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 07:24:47 AM
That's completely different to do, I'd have to do it from scratch. Besides, there are (free) programs for that, like TinyCad.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 14, 2006, 09:50:51 AM
Your probably getting fed up now but could we have wires added too. So that we can point out where switches and pots would sit on the veroboard.

Cheers

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 09:53:23 AM
I'm not sure if I understand. You can use jumpers to make outside connections. Just click on hole that's on board edge and click anywhere outside board.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 14, 2006, 09:56:57 AM
Cheers Bancika thats all I needed to know . Keep up the good work

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 14, 2006, 10:00:54 AM
Sorry back again. How do you use the jumper vertically off the board ? I can't seem to manage it. Or from the right to off the board (i.e output)

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 14, 2006, 10:05:13 AM
The problem at the output end was I couldn't put anything on column 20! Added an extra column now works fine BUT still can't do the vertical off board wiring. Also it's a pain to delete anything after you have started, only one udo how about multiple or even better a delete component.

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 10:39:58 AM
To put vertical jumpers you need to click on hole in first/last row and anywhere outside board.
Damn, you're the second one who has problem with last row...I have to find a way to replicate it...damn death row :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Austin73 on May 14, 2006, 12:54:00 PM
I actually need to be able to put a vertical jumper anywhere on the board rather than just on the edges if that makes sense

Cheers

Aus
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 01:42:52 PM
I get it now, will think about it...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: SuzukiScottie on May 14, 2006, 02:06:33 PM
Also it's a pain to delete anything after you have started, only one udo how about multiple or even better a delete component.

Aus

In the component list on the right hand side..... right click the desired component, select delete, job done!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 02:21:56 PM
Or press Del on keyboard  :icon_idea:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2006, 09:31:55 PM
I just uploaded new version, good old link http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
New added: trimmers, redesigned about box, little easier to use (green dots for trimemrs and transistors), improved drawing (component names are not rotated whenever possible), etc...
Nobody tested PnP print yet? ???
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 15, 2006, 12:07:43 AM
I just uploaded new version, good old link http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
New added: trimmers, redesigned about box, little easier to use (green dots for trimemrs and transistors), improved drawing (component names are not rotated whenever possible), etc...
Nobody tested PnP print yet? ???

Excellent, I love the trimmers.

Perhaps you could draw pins on the transistor, right now it kind of "blocks" the view.I mean just make the holes under a transistor visible. Possible?

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 15, 2006, 12:34:21 AM
Here's what I'd like to see:

Clickable components...this would be SOO much easier than selecting on the right hand side. 
Click/Drag components
Undo/Ctrl-Z
Redo/Ctrl-Y
Organization of numbers...right now it only goes by first digit.  So sometimes it organizes it as 1, 15, 2, 21...etc...
Save As/Save Copy function
Ctrl-Click to select more than one
Shift-Click to select all in between
Save dialog when the program shuts down
When you open a saved project, it doesn't load the parts list!  BIG PROBLEM!
Solder pads don't need names...
There are many trimmers without a gap of two holes between the middle leg and the outer ones


And PNP print just prints a blank page :(
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 15, 2006, 01:13:03 AM
Here's what I'd like to see:

Clickable components...this would be SOO much easier than selecting on the right hand side. 
Click/Drag components


The thing is: everything is painted on a canvas - one visual component. So it's difficult to analyze layout structure in order to find out what's under mouse point, especially because there can be more than one component on the same place (e.g. trace cut and jumper). Maybe it will be possible sometimes, but for now I don't think it's too complicated to locate your pad. List is sorted by type, so you need only to click on first and press down arrow on keyboard to select next. With 100 pads it shouldn't take more than one minute, worst case scenario :)

There you go.

When you open a saved project, it doesn't load the parts list!  BIG PROBLEM!

bancika has already been notified of that. And it's not such a BIG PROBLEM as when you create a component, it reappears. Voila.

Undo/Ctrl-Z
Redo/Ctrl-Y
Organization of numbers...right now it only goes by first digit.  So sometimes it organizes it as 1, 15, 2, 21...etc...
Save As/Save Copy function
Ctrl-Click to select more than one
Shift-Click to select all in between
Save dialog when the program shuts down

As to these, I join Mr.Gardenlove. Sure looks much to do but take your time Bancika, you're going on a too fast pace anyway. ;D

-----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 15, 2006, 04:56:32 AM
Hm...I think I fixed that bug that doesn't load list when opening file...I just tried it and it worked, but only when opening from program, and not from windows...will fix it.

Quote
Undo/Ctrl-Z
Redo/Ctrl-Y
Organization of numbers...right now it only goes by first digit.  So sometimes it organizes it as 1, 15, 2, 21...etc...
Save As/Save Copy function
Ctrl-Click to select more than one
Shift-Click to select all in between
Save dialog when the program shuts down

Ok, just when you select more than one you won't be able to do anything but delete...

Since component clicking is out of reach, solder pads and traces do need name, so you can identify it.

Are you sure that you put some traces/pads before trying to print PnP because that's only thing it prints. I tried with virtual printer that prints fo image file and it did print, I just don't know about scale.

Thanks for suggestions!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 15, 2006, 05:35:24 AM
I printed it with traces and pads, yeah.  I used both a PDF printer, and a paper printer...dunno whats going on.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 16, 2006, 12:22:43 PM
The print function works for me. The size of the printout is exactly right BUT it doesn't print trace widths, all the traces are the same width and pads the same default size. Get that fixed and it's good.

I don't know if it would be too much of work but in PCB mode, perhaps the components should have pads stuck to them? I mean, if I create a 16-pin IC, I'd like to have all the pads at where I placed the IC instead of creating them all individually. And when I decide to move the IC, I'd have to move each of the pads too... Perhaps it's possible to set up a child-parent relationship so the pads are travelling along with the components? Also with transistors, resistors and other components. That would make PCB-designing much simpler.

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 23, 2006, 04:07:56 AM
^Good idea...


And while you're at it, a schematics drawer, and a box layout designer would be REALLY nice ;)

Especially the box layout designer, I have alot of trouble with that stuff.  Just something where you could enter the size of your box(XYZ) and then be able to move around jacks, pots, and switches inside the enclosure...


Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 23, 2006, 04:51:00 AM
Unfortunately, I don't have time these days. Yesterdays I had the hardest exam on my faculty, actually, the harders part of exam..."Mathematical Analysys II: Integrals" phew  :icon_confused:
And many more to come.
About creating solder pads, it would be very simple to just create it, but adding "parent" property would make things little complicated but doable. Any way, I'll do one of this, that's for sure.
As for other things: schematic drawer, I already said; There are very nice free solutions (TinyCAD) and I'd waste so much time trying to make something that will hardly be better. It's better to put that time for something more useful. Box layout maker is really nice idea. I will think about it...
Also, I need to put "Change Value" directly inside explorer because when you want to change only value and not position you need to replace whole component...boring :)
Thanks for comments
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 24, 2006, 12:43:22 PM
Finally got some time to work on this baby. New major updates:
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software11.gif)

Transparency level is set to 78%, do you think it's
a) OK
b) too transparent
c) too opaque

Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 24, 2006, 12:51:17 PM
 :-*




 :D

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 24, 2006, 01:06:30 PM
Looks A OK to me.   ;D  Bancika, you're the man!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 24, 2006, 01:14:14 PM
Tnx  :icon_cool:
The only drawback is slower drawing. With 100% opaque pics you can just copy it to surface. For transparent I had to mix colors for every pixel on every component. I'll try to improve my algorithm a little, but it's nothing seriously slow anyway.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 24, 2006, 01:30:18 PM
Hmm, perhaps add a slider to the 'properties' tab that would allow selecting the transparency of the components for the project?

------------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 24, 2006, 01:52:53 PM
Istarted working on a circuit again after stopping when I had to change things on the pcb, and I keep missing an option.

How can you delete a specific "cut track" component. They are numbered on the Explorer, but I can't find the name of the one I want to delete on the pcb.

For example, what I did is delete a component to move it elsewhere, but I have to delete a track cut because of that, but I can't find which one I should delete to get my trace  connected again.

Thanks,

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 24, 2006, 02:45:35 PM
Istarted working on a circuit again after stopping when I had to change things on the pcb, and I keep missing an option.

How can you delete a specific "cut track" component. They are numbered on the Explorer, but I can't find the name of the one I want to delete on the pcb.

For example, what I did is delete a component to move it elsewhere, but I have to delete a track cut because of that, but I can't find which one I should delete to get my trace  connected again.

Thanks,

Gilles

Good point. The program paints the selected components red but cut track is already red. ;D

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 24, 2006, 06:52:10 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking about elegant solution for cut track, it occured to me before. Maybe turn it green, or blue when selected.
About transparency, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me to make it variable, but from where I'm standing it's not necessary. Point of transparency is to see what's below. With current transparency it's possible to see both component and background...
Anyone else is for, against that?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 24, 2006, 07:12:22 PM
Would a "component on/transparent/off"-switch come into consideration? :) I don't know why, I just feel I'd like that in handy.

Okay, I'll let others chime in with an opinion on that. 8)

----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 24, 2006, 07:20:31 PM
It's the same amount of work to make check box and slider. As I said, it's not a problem, just use of that is under question.
I'm uploading new version http://www.storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/DIYLayout.exe)
New things to check out:
Cheers
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 25, 2006, 11:04:34 PM
I just had a good idea I think...
Instead of having the traces show up on the right, with a name and all, could you just make it possible to draw them out?  It takes up tons of space over on the right.  I think it would be nice if you could draw them out with the mouse, but have the lines snap to the points so its easier to draw.  I don't think having the traces show up as components is very practical...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 26, 2006, 12:37:42 AM
Just tried it with the cut track turning blue. Now you're talking.

I was able to mod the circuit I began last week easily. I didn't feel like starting it all over. I don't have to anymore, I can see where I'm going...

And the cut track turning blue under a transparent IC looks cool.

Thanks,

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 02:36:36 AM
I just had a good idea I think...
Instead of having the traces show up on the right, with a name and all, could you just make it possible to draw them out?  It takes up tons of space over on the right.  I think it would be nice if you could draw them out with the mouse, but have the lines snap to the points so its easier to draw.  I don't think having the traces show up as components is very practical...

Yeah, but what happens when you want to delete one? That's the only reason I keep them on list. I tried to speed up process a bit, for those components that name doesn't matter name dialog doesn't appear at all. So you just need to click and it's created with auto name.
I'll think about saving some space in explorer the other way...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 26, 2006, 03:35:44 AM
^Eraser tool.  Just make it so it only applies to the tracks, and not the other components.  And of course, still make it snap to the points.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 07:45:35 AM
Well...that sends us back to component detection program. As I said before, everything is painted on board, so it's very hard for me to determine what component is under mouse cursor when you move mouse over board. Would it help if I make explorer like Tree with folders (Traces, Pads, Resistors..) and all resistors would go in resistors folder. That way you can just collapse folders you don't need.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Melanhead on May 26, 2006, 08:42:25 AM
Wow ... this is strating to look pretty damn cool! ...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 26, 2006, 10:28:14 AM
I'm almost done drawing Mark Hammer Chaos circuit with your program, only copying Torchy's layout for now, and I found a little detail that is causing me problems.

I can't see the cut tracks under the resistors. At first I though I forgot to add some of the cut tracks, but sudenly realised it was hidden under a resistor.

The resistor is transparent, but I can't see the cut track. But everything else work perfectly.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 10:39:12 AM
Tnx :)
What do you suggest doing about that?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 26, 2006, 11:05:59 AM
A tree setup would be WAY easier...

But IMO, the thing that would really bring widespread use is being able to click+drag compononts on the board.  Not being able to really kills it for me.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 12:03:10 PM
I'll make tree list soon, it won't be a problem.
For second one I can't promise anything. As said, it's really not easy thing to do. :-\
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 12:51:17 PM
I said soon, didn't I :)
components in tree view:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software12.gif (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software12.gif)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 26, 2006, 01:23:14 PM
I was wondering is being able to put the name of the components outside of the part wouln't make it possible to see the cut track.

Something like a component name position that could be selected as Bottom, Top, Left or Right (B, T, L, R).

I almost suggested you once to add new kinds of resistors for resistors placed on their end. But it would have ment to place the name outside the part, and I like having the name inside the component. The same for caps and diodes.

I know, I know... more work, more components.

Oh, maybe just having a second cut track component a little wider that would show each side of the resistor. It wouldn't help the caps though. Unless you make the caps a bit slimmer  ???

Like in the bottom drawin for R11. See what I mean?

(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/MyChaos.jpg)

The original from Torchy

http://www.indyguitarist.com/torchy/Distortion_Overdrive/Mark%20Hammer's%20Chaos/Chaos.gif

Ok, just thinking out loud. What about a special button that would show the cut tracks opaque on top of the components for when we want to see them all. Hit the bottom again and they take their place back under the components. After all, we only need to see them once when we cut them, and only also when we debug the circuit.

A last suggestion. Would it be possible to have 2 lines for the credits? I realised I could need more place for the credits sometimes.

These are just suggestions anyway  :icon_wink:

Btw, I checked with another stripboard program and it doesn't show the cut tracks either. Maybe I'll looking for perfection  :icon_redface:

Hey, the tree view looks super...

Gilles

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 01:49:49 PM
Well, name positioning can solve the problem, I'll think about that.
Don't forget so submit layout when it's done (it would be first one :))
Tnx

Update: I think I found a way to make life easier to both me and users. It's about moving components around. I placed 4 arrow buttons in explorer which move selected component in given direction for one hole. It's not drag and drop, but it works fine :)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software13.gif)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 26, 2006, 02:30:52 PM
Also, a way to edit component values would be good...I was trying to do that before, but I couldn't figure it out.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 26, 2006, 03:04:23 PM
Bancika,

I just did a quickie layout for a PNP negative ground Rangemaster and the program wouldn't let me submit it to your layout gallery.  Here's the layout:

(http://www.andyharrison.net/files/rm_layout.gif)

Also, is there a way to designate where the collector is on a transistor other than using the text function?

Thanks, this program is great!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 26, 2006, 03:06:48 PM
rockgardenlove: Right click on component in explorer -> Change value
hairyandy: most likely there's firewall blocking internet connection for program. You can manually submit too
support[AT]storm-software.co.yu
You're gonna be the first after all :)
Edit: please send .diy file, not GIF.
Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 26, 2006, 03:21:53 PM
One other weirdness, I created the RM layout on my IBM Thinkpad and it's fine.  The program also works on my Powerbook in Win98Se on VirtualPC but all of the black (the component names and outlines) on all of the components is transparent rather than black.  I assume it's a language bug that gets translated differently or maybe that black doesn't need to be defined in Delphi to work in XP but does with other/older OS's?  It's kinda weird but still usable i guess...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 26, 2006, 09:10:45 PM
I just found a bug related to diodes.

When I place a diode, it says first "click on cathode hole" then click on "anode hole", but it places the bar to indicate the cathode at the wrong end.

I just didn't noticed when I entered the diodes today, but tonight while I was checking my circuit a last time, I realised that all the diodes were the wrong way.

The funny thing is that I only noticed one diode at first, and and it's only when I tried to replace it the correct way a few times without success that I found out about the problem, and noticed that the other diodes were also all wrong...

Also, now that I want to replace some diodes by LEDs, I realise that a LED component would be very useful. In fact, I really need it because I use LEDs on pcbs quite often.

Added: Ok, I think there is a bug with the "replace" function with the jumpers. It just adds a new jumper without erasing the original one.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 27, 2006, 05:12:43 AM
Ok, I'll fix both bugs and try to add LED component.
About transparent names, I think I realized what could be the problem. It's the same problem that users had before with some other thing. What's your color pallete on that computer (8bit, 16bit, 24bit, 32bit?)
Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 27, 2006, 11:24:49 AM
Ok, I'll fix both bugs and try to add LED component.
About transparent names, I think I realized what could be the problem. It's the same problem that users had before with some other thing. What's your color pallete on that computer (8bit, 16bit, 24bit, 32bit?)
Tnx

It's a G4 Powerbook so I assume it's 32-bit.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't.  I have a feeling that it's a Windows 98 thing since that's what is running in VPC.  It's no big deal but it would be cool for it to work right so I can do layouts when I'm on the road.  I never bring my Thinkbook out with me because the Mac is just easier to have on the road and it's waaaaaayyyy lighter...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 27, 2006, 12:41:16 PM
Mine is 32 bit too but on Win XP.

Btw, I did a test in 16 bit, and the black letters were kind of too transparent, hard to read. So that could be the problem indeed...

Thanks for the LEDs coming and all,

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 27, 2006, 02:09:54 PM
Ok, so we located problem. I'll fix that transparent text thing...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 27, 2006, 05:04:46 PM
Ok, so we located problem. I'll fix that transparent text thing...

Hey Bancika, don't bother with the transparent thing.  I went back and checked and sure enough, Windows 98 in VPC defaulted to 16-bit color and when I changed it to 32-bit everything was fine.  I was sure that it was set at 32-bit but when I checked I was wrong, sorry!  I've been building and fixing computers for years and sometimes I still forget that they're only as smart as you tell them to be!   ;D

Thanks again for the great program...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 27, 2006, 05:56:05 PM
The thing is: I'm using black color as transparent when drawing components. COmponent is drawn inside black rectangle and all black pixels are declared transparent. So I put text color to be only one bit lighter than "real black" so that it's not made transparent. When you switch to less than 24bit there's no difference between those colors because they are very similar and program "sees" text black also.
I'll make background to be some awfull pinkish gayish color I'm sure won't be used anywhere else... :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 27, 2006, 06:44:02 PM
I need your opinion on LED's; I ran out of colors, what do you think
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/software14.gif)
also design wise, should I draw them like this or something else?
Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: calpolyengineer on May 27, 2006, 06:54:29 PM
I like having them drawn like that, my only request is that the flat side be a little more obvious. Just cut a little more off of that side of the circle and it will be fine.

-Joe
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 27, 2006, 07:11:42 PM
Well, at first it was flat more but the thing is when you have component with two digit name (like D33) it won't fit. So edge of text overlaps.
Don't know what to do :) Maybe make them little bigger overall?
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 27, 2006, 07:32:12 PM
How about ribbon connectors and sockets/pins for offboard wiring.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 27, 2006, 08:02:37 PM
I don't really mind about the transparent thing, except to see when there is a cut track under the component.

I'm not sure about the color though.

The flat side of the Led is ok for me.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on May 27, 2006, 08:05:29 PM
Oh, and I'd LOVE provisions for onboard pots :)

EDIT:
And jacks :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 28, 2006, 03:41:21 AM
Not trying to influence you about how the LEDs should look, but I was playing with the circuit a bit to check how I would do a LED component, and came up with this kind of LEDs. They are a bit too colorful compared to the rest of the circuit, but I wanted to see how they looked with a double circle instead of a simple circle. Btw, I begin to like the color you use...

I was also wondering about the ordering of the components in the part list that is not correct after a few replaces done. Is there something easy that can be done?

(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/ChaosTest.jpg)

This is where I stopped with the circuit, waiting for a LED component. You can still see the wire for the Led that wasn't deleted after a replace.

Btw, I just realised that I didn't really need a second line for the Credits. I can just add a line of text somewhere.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 28, 2006, 05:39:43 AM
I've changed LEDs to look much like yours, fixed jumper bug, etc. You can expect new release today :)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: JimRayden on May 28, 2006, 06:59:51 AM
Ooh, what about grouping the component list, so it'd say "R3, R15: 100k" instead of both of them spearate. Or perhaps an option of selecting both modes.

-----------
Jimbo
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 28, 2006, 08:08:30 AM
Hmm...I don't think it's worth it  :icon_rolleyes:
I added resistor calculator, parent "thing" so now when you move component that auto-created solder pads, new pads are created and old erased.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 30, 2006, 01:55:58 AM
While waiting for a LED component, I made a new layout tonight.

I noticed that the trimmers don't appear in the list of components.

At first I thought it was because I renamed it R4, but it doesn't appear even as VR1

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: hairyandy on May 30, 2006, 02:53:00 AM
While waiting for a LED component, I made a new layout tonight.

I noticed that the trimmers don't appear in the list of components.

At first I thought it was because I renamed it R4, but it doesn't appear even as VR1

Gilles


I noticed that today as well.  I just used the text tool to add it down below as a description.
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 30, 2006, 06:33:55 AM
Will fix it, tnx :)
I'll post new version with LEDs so you can finish your layout today...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: DaveC on May 30, 2006, 04:31:12 PM
Great little program so far... my only annoyance is it opening in the middle of the screen... or when you have dual screens half of it on each screen ;)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 30, 2006, 04:48:09 PM
Will fix it, tnx :)
I'll post new version with LEDs so you can finish your layout today...

THANKS...

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 30, 2006, 06:07:00 PM
Great little program so far... my only annoyance is it opening in the middle of the screen... or when you have dual screens half of it on each screen ;)

Well, less than 1% of users have dual display. Other 99% would be annoyed that program is displayed in corner...
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 30, 2006, 06:25:25 PM
Here's new version, check out resistor calculator. I'll make calculations other way round possible.
http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 30, 2006, 09:22:57 PM
Wow! You've been working hard these days...

Nice resistance calculator. Very useful when you don't remember the colors. The only thing missing is being able to enter a value and get the colors but you said you'll work on it, so it's ok...

I also like the move function with the arrows. Neat.

The only thing I found out is that I'll have to start my layouts all over I think. I get an out of bounds error when I try to move some parts. Like the trimmer I already had in my last circuit. And the diodes in the precedent one that I can't correctly delete to replace them by LEDs.

I'll go back to it and see what I can do with my circuits.

Thanks,

Gilles

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Sam on May 30, 2006, 09:59:27 PM
WOW! Oh my god! I never realised what was going on in this thread! Truly and utterly amazing! The only downside is that now I HAVE to install bloody Windows on my new Intel-Mac. :icon_smile:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 30, 2006, 10:03:06 PM
Humm.. bad news.

I just started a new pcb and I have the same problems, just by placing a Trimmer and trying to delete it.

(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/Err1.jpg)

It does the same with some other components.

And the trimmers still don't appear in the component list in the middle.

On the positive side, nice job on the LEDs. I like the way you did them. Another happy customer.

Sorry...

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: mydementia on May 30, 2006, 10:13:41 PM
I had the same troubles... also, when I delete or move a component, the solder pads don't move...
Minor tweaks...I'm sure...
Thanks for your hard work on this - I'm sure it's going to be a great tool when you're finished!  Any more thought about grouping like components?  What about a fader bar to adjust the transparency of the components?

Thanks again.
Mike
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on May 31, 2006, 01:46:59 AM
I'll fix that ASAP, don't start your layouts from scratch because of bug...it will be ok when updated.
I have to go to exam now, so I'll do it tomorrow  :icon_frown:
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on May 31, 2006, 01:07:58 PM
Don't worry. Exams first.

The rest can wait.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 01, 2006, 05:34:20 AM
Stupid exams :)
It was very small bug for deletion, I just swapped order of two commands, now it's fixed.  :icon_idea:
Will do bi-directional resistor calculator this evening and I'll update it for download
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 02, 2006, 05:39:15 PM
I'm uploading new release, fixed delete bug and two-way resistor calculator is up and running :)
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
And try Render PnP option, is ratio ok when result image is printed from other program?
Tnx
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on June 02, 2006, 08:08:54 PM
Ok, I was able to finish the 2 layouts I was working on.

Only detail: The LEDs don't show up in the list of components. But the trimmers do.

Everything else seems to work the way it should. It's getting better all the time. Nice work.

I submitted one on the layouts whjen asked by the program. Should it appear on your site? Or do you have to do something on your side before it does?

I'll have to check something about the Chaos layout before I submit it.

Thanks,

Gilles

Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 03, 2006, 05:14:33 AM
Damn, I missed that one for LED's :)
Submission works manually, when you submit layout it comes to my mailbox and then I just upload it on server. I would make it automatically, but there are few problems, so I have to check each layout. I'll upload your's now :)
Thanks!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: choklitlove on June 03, 2006, 06:08:46 AM
I had the same troubles... also, when I delete or move a component, the solder pads don't move...
i can't figure out how to move or delete components.  am i missing something?

nice program though!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: Gilles C on June 03, 2006, 07:49:01 AM
Ok, no problem, it's just that I was wondering if the submit function was working.

For the Chaos layout, I'll wait until the Leds shows in the component list then will submit it.

Btw, I tried moving components in the pcb layout, not the stripboard layout, and indeed, if you replace them it works ok, but if you use the arrows to move them, the pads don't follow the components.

Gilles
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 03, 2006, 08:41:44 AM
Yeah, that parent-child thing needs little fine tuning. I'll upload new release this evening.
choklitlove: to move component select it in Explorer (right side of window) and use buttons with cursor keys (below that) to move it. For deletion, just select component and hit delete on keyboard or select->right click->delete. Hope it helps
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: burnt fingers on June 03, 2006, 01:03:12 PM
I just tried this out an man was I pleased.  This is very cool.  Thanks so much.  This is going to  make my life easier.  I useually dry fit everything onto perf and hope that I don't miss a connection when I solder.  Now I can do a Virtual layout and have it handy when I fire up the ol' soldering iron.

Very cool.
 
Scott
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 03, 2006, 01:42:48 PM
That's the point of it's existance :) Tnx man
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: choklitlove on June 03, 2006, 04:36:48 PM
Yeah, that parent-child thing needs little fine tuning. I'll upload new release this evening.
choklitlove: to move component select it in Explorer (right side of window) and use buttons with cursor keys (below that) to move it. For deletion, just select component and hit delete on keyboard or select->right click->delete. Hope it helps
cool.  i like the arrow thing, but maybe some click and drag action is in the future?  it's a really nice program though!  also, maybe a rotate button next to the arrows.  anyway, please let us know when that next upload comes.  thanks!
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 03, 2006, 06:57:55 PM
Nice, post it up as soon as you finish the next build! 
Title: Re: Would this kind of software be useful?
Post by: bancika on June 03, 2006, 07:28:14 PM
Good news: I'm uploading new version. Missing LEDs from list is fixed; Parent-child thingie is fixed, now child pads move along parent component. I've enabled placing components wherever on "paper", not only on board. This can help with placing  outside connections how you want them.
Bad news: I had to redo some routines with displaying Text, so now when you open files created with older version all text components are invisible (actually they are visible, just very far from display area), so you'll have to replace them to old locations.
Andy and Gilles, please update your layouts and resend them for gallery. I would do it, but I'm really short with time. Sorry for this, but it had to be done. I'm pretty sure that file format has reached final shape and all future versions will be compatible with previous.
Link is: http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 03, 2006, 07:46:14 PM
cool.  seems like the whole "parent" thing with the pads works well.

i have a new suggestion that would be nice.  the ability to select/move/delete multiple things.  anyway, i love the program!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 03, 2006, 08:55:46 PM
About selecting/deleting many components at the same time, you can already do that. You select the first component of the list that you want to select, and you select the last one while holding the shift key. It will select everything between the first and the last items selected. --- Added: Not true anymore. See below.

That's what I do when a layout is finished to save a second version of the layout with only the cut tracks and the jumpers on it. It makes it easier to locate the tracks to cut and tp add thejumpers.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I had a strange problem after submiting the layout to your site Bancika. When I try to exit the program, it gives me an error, as you can see in the picture. It opens a window signaling the error, and I can't close that window, or exit the program anymore.???

And it seems to do that only after submiting a layout.


(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/Err.jpg)


But the rest of the program works better than before.

Added: I kept working with the program again this evening, and I realised that we can't select many components at the same time anymore  :( I will miss that option...

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 04, 2006, 02:12:25 AM
i tried the shift thing before i posted.  maybe the version i tried it on was the latest.  i can't remember... but i know that it didn't work.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 05:07:23 AM
I'll put multi-select back soon. As for strange "No active document" bug, I'll try to fix it but so far couldn't replicate it... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 04, 2006, 05:14:03 AM
Any hope of that box layouter actually being made?  I'm planning to start a rather large project(for me at least) with a bunch of all etched PCBs, PCB mounted jacks, etc...
I box layout thing would be really nice.

Also, it might be nice to have some sort of measurement tool for the PCB drawer, my PCB jacks don't have the normal size legs.  Just so you could measure out what's on the screen in millimeters :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 06:25:34 AM
Interesting, but I was also thinking about some measurement tool yesterday...as for box layout, it will be done, but can't promise when. I'm stuck with 7 more exams for this month, plus I might start working on some commercial project these days (gotta make a living somehow)...
Btw, multi-select is back. Now you can delete and move more than one component at the same time
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 04, 2006, 06:58:23 AM
Nice...
I bought a Windows emulator for my Mac, just so I could use this :)
I'm installing Win98 right now(just because it doesn't have any of that copy protection stuff...)
Have you added undo and redo yet?  IMO those would be two VERY useful additions...
Also, last time I used it, you couldnt put jumpers over/under other components...which is a problem if you want to indicate offboard wiring.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 07:06:21 AM
Hmm...new you can add jumper between any two nodes in a grid, not only on holes. It is always drawn under components, but components are semi-transparent so you can see what's below. There is undo, but not redo.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 04, 2006, 07:07:11 AM
Btw, multi-select is back. Now you can delete and move more than one component at the same time
do you mean it is in the next build?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: radio on June 04, 2006, 07:15:35 AM
Hi

I rarely build effects,so I really got positivly surprized by the simplicity of your tool!!

Just want to say thanks for the time you put in to set this up  :)

Greetings Radio aka JMErnzer
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 07:34:28 AM
Yeah, it's already done. When I upload it I'll let you know.
radio: thanx  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 04, 2006, 07:36:03 AM
cool.  thanks!

i'll be waiting...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 04, 2006, 08:01:17 AM
Bancika, that is a really great program you have written! Thank you very much!
I am going to try it out on my next layout. Nice web site BTW.

Thanks again.
Richard

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 04, 2006, 08:59:25 AM
The "no active document" is strange indeed.

I will check it with another PC when I send you another layout.

The problem is that I can't test it unless I send you a layout... I can always stop sending you layouts to stop the bug from happening  :icon_mrgreen: Na, I'll see if it's caused ny another program on my system...

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 09:23:59 AM
We'll fix it somehow. I'm also thinking about alternate layout submission concept...
Thanks Richard.
Btw, we've reached 3500 lines of code and about 130000 typed letters :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 04, 2006, 09:44:17 AM
Indeed, nice piece of work. I can also tell you, again.

Many years ago, I was programming in C as a hobby. So I know how much it can be. The only programming I do these days is in ASM for uControllers and PICs.

But you're fast. A lot faster than me...

Btw, a little suggestion for the program. When we do a replace, it always opens the Text tree instead of staying in the same component tree we did a replace. Would it be possible to change it so that it stays in the same component tree we're working on (replacing). It would be easier and less of a pain when we are replacing many ressistors for example.

I just changed the size of a stripboard from 24 to 31 and moved everything on the layout. So I had to reopen the trees I was replacing from many times...

Thanks,

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 09:51:34 AM
Good point. My goal was to open last used tree, just I wan't thinking about replacing components. Routine opens tree with newest component, so when you update existing component it goes back to newest component again. I'll change that!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Bancika...

first...REALLY a cool program...thank you for the time and effort you've devoted to it...next time i get a little money in my paypal account I'll be sure to donate a few $$$ to the cause :)

a couple of thoughts....

1) even though its pretty simple, a short "instructions" guide would probably be helpful, especially to those who haven't seen this thread (future users)...a few paragraphs I'm sure would be more than enough. ( maybe you've already done this and I'm just missing it...)

2) as a guy who's done tons of layouts, i find that occasionally I'll have to move a part long after i originally placed it on the layout. the "undo" feature on your program won't allow for this...am i missing a "delete" command for the parts ?

3) it would be nice to be able to start with a larger board than needed and be able to "delete" rows from the top, bottom, or either side later. that way you could start the layout in the center of the board, complete it, and then reduce the board to the appropriate size. currently you can only remove rows from the bottom and right side.

4) the text feature...it would be nice to be able to add the necessary text, and then be able to click and drag it to the appropriate spot...you may already be able to do this, and I'm just missing the "how to"  ?  then again, the ability to click and drag text and components might be a lot more programming than is really necessary... (also, is there a way to control the "size" of the text...?  just wondering...)


anyway, thank you for the effort you've put into this...it goes way "above and beyond" what it necessary...

AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 10:47:50 AM
BTW... i submitted a couple layouts to the folder !
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 11:08:31 AM
Hi Dragonfly!
Thanks  :icon_cool:
1) yeah, I was thinking about it. But that's 100% hardest part of the job for me. I have many apps on my software-related site www.storm-software.co.yu (http://www.storm-software.co.yu) and I totally hate writing program description and manual. Not because I'm lazy, but because I don't know how :) Also, I spend all my energy on software features...have to hire someone, a secretary :)
2) yes, you can delete component by selecting it in Explorer (right side) and then press Del on keyboard, or select Delete from drop down meny (right click). In new version this is possible for multiple components.
3) you can change size and cut it on right side and bottom side. I'll think about elegant solution for deleting first row and first column. Basically, all I have to do is move all components for one hole up and reduce number of rows. I just don't know where to put that option :)
4) hm...I don't know how would I do that :icon_rolleyes:...You can still "drag" components with arrow buttons on the right.

Thanks for great layouts, I'm uploading them to the gallery  :icon_mrgreen:
Btw, I don't have PayPal account, they don't support my country (Serbia)  :icon_frown:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 11:20:09 AM

1) yeah, I was thinking about it. But that's 100% hardest part of the job for me. I have many apps on my software-related site www.storm-software.co.yu (http://www.storm-software.co.yu) and I totally hate writing program description and manual. Not because I'm lazy, but because I don't know how :) Also, I spend all my energy on software features...have to hire someone, a secretary :)

I'm sure one of us can come up with a "basic overview" manual.


Quote
2) yes, you can delete component by selecting it in Explorer (right side) and then press Del on keyboard, or select Delete from drop down meny (right click). In new version this is possible for multiple components.
   A-HA !!!  see...one more thing for the manual !  works great !

Quote
3) you can change size and cut it on right side and bottom side. I'll think about elegant solution for deleting first row and first column. Basically, all I have to do is move all components for one hole up and reduce number of rows. I just don't know where to put that option :)
is there a way you could select the components on the right side and "group" them? that way you could just select them all, and move the layout as a group toward the top left corner of the board...then it'd be simple to delete the unnecessary rows.... (just an idea that might be easier to impliment)

Quote
4) hm...I don't know how would I do that :icon_rolleyes:...You can still "drag" components with arrow buttons on the right.
 

didnt realize how to drag till i saw this...thats another for the manual !

Quote
Btw, I don't have PayPal account, they don't support my country (Serbia)  :icon_frown:

well...if theres a charity you'd like us to donate to .... 

anyway,
   rock on,
   AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: markm on June 04, 2006, 12:05:15 PM
First of all,
My hats of to you bancika on a job Very Well Done!!
Being new to doing layouts I think this be quite a useful program.
All I've been doing with it is playing around with it a bit to get the hang of how it works but, I must say
I think I'll be putting it to good use soon!
Again, Thank you so much, it easy to see it was alot of effort for you.
Hey Dragonfly,
Do you have anything new coming up?????
I've built a bunch of your builds and I've been very impressed.
Love to see something new soon......hint, hint, hint......nudge nudge :icon_biggrin:
Thanks for your work too!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 12:17:30 PM
First of all,
My hats of to you bancika on a job Very Well Done!!
Being new to doing layouts I think this be quite a useful program.
All I've been doing with it is playing around with it a bit to get the hang of how it works but, I must say
I think I'll be putting it to good use soon!
Again, Thank you so much, it easy to see it was alot of effort for you.
Hey Dragonfly,
Do you have anything new coming up?????
I've built a bunch of your builds and I've been very impressed.
Love to see something new soon......hint, hint, hint......nudge nudge :icon_biggrin:
Thanks for your work too!!



BUNCH OF NEW STUFF COMING UP / ALREADY DONE !   I had some trouble loading pictures into my gallery, which with the help of Aron, i was finally able to solve. I just have to bring the disc i have the layouts stored on up here (i dont have internet access at my house) and download 'em !

Also, i'm working on some cool new tube based designs...still figuring those out !

thanks,
  AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 12:46:31 PM
You can do multi select two ways:
1) select first component, hold shift and click on second component. All components between those two will be selected.
2) hold ctrl and click on each component you want to select
That's it :)
Only problem is, I did it today, so it's not updated yet. I'm waiting to fix few more things today before updating.
Thanks for layouts :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 12:51:11 PM
You can do multi select two ways:
1) select first component, hold shift and click on second component. All components between those two will be selected.
2) hold ctrl and click on each component you want to select
That's it :)
Only problem is, I did it today, so it's not updated yet. I'm waiting to fix few more things today before updating.
Thanks for layouts :)


GREAT !  i just sent more layouts for ya !
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: hairyandy on June 04, 2006, 01:36:25 PM
Hey Dragonfly &/or Bancika,

I just downloaded and opened Dragonfly's Mosfet Boost & Sparkle Boost layouts from Bancika's website and the text was all scrunched and illegible.  I just thought I'd let you know in case it's a software thing between versions, as we all know that Dragonfly is the King Of All Vero and would NEVER submit a screwy layout like that...

 ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 01:45:33 PM
Hey Dragonfly &/or Bancika,

I just downloaded and opened Dragonfly's Mosfet Boost & Sparkle Boost layouts from Bancika's website and the text was all scrunched and illegible.  I just thought I'd let you know in case it's a software thing between versions, as we all know that Dragonfly is the King Of All Vero and would NEVER submit a screwy layout like that...

 ;D


Torchy is, was, and always will be the king...I'm just trying to help a few people out :)

see ya in about a week andy !  much beer to be had, noise to be made ....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: hairyandy on June 04, 2006, 01:47:01 PM
Hey Dragonfly &/or Bancika,

I just downloaded and opened Dragonfly's Mosfet Boost & Sparkle Boost layouts from Bancika's website and the text was all scrunched and illegible.  I just thought I'd let you know in case it's a software thing between versions, as we all know that Dragonfly is the King Of All Vero and would NEVER submit a screwy layout like that...

 ;D


Torchy is, was, and always will be the king...I'm just trying to help a few people out :)

see ya in about a week andy !  much beer to be had, noise to be made ....


Yes, and you do, yes, yes and yes...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 01:51:43 PM
hmmm...i just tried opening files from the page and all i get is the "code" ...no image at all ....i tried using internet explorer AND mozilla, no luck ...must be missing something....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 01:58:37 PM
Hm..andy, did you try opening those layouts with new or old version? I'm opening it with new with no problem.
Dragonfly, try right click and "Save Target As..." in your browser. Because .DIY is only a text file default browser action is to open them instead of download.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Dragonfly on June 04, 2006, 02:24:24 PM

Dragonfly, try right click and "Save Target As..." in your browser. Because .DIY is only a text file default browser action is to open them instead of download.


THAT WORKED ...THANKS !
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Peter Snowberg on June 04, 2006, 02:55:56 PM


What a GREAT piece of software! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 03:03:13 PM
Thanks Peter  :icon_cool:

Quote
well...if theres a charity you'd like us to donate to .... 

I'd be more than happy with a postcard and a resistor (or cap) :icon_wink:

Goin' back to study and I'll try to upload new release today. Damned 28.8K dialup :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: SuperGeo on June 04, 2006, 03:29:17 PM
VERY NICE program you're making!

I think It would be less confusing and cleaner if on the Explorer windows just appear the components you have used on the layout, not all components. So if I use 2 leds and a capacitor, it will appear just 2 groups - [Led] and [Capacitor].

EDIT: I'm having also an problem deleting an SIL chip.

(http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3293/problem8ol.th.jpg) (http://img400.imageshack.us/my.php?image=problem8ol.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 04, 2006, 04:53:55 PM
The SIL deleting works with the other 2 kinds of layouts, but not with the pcb type. So it must be related to the traces.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 05:30:13 PM
Thanks for info, I'll look for bug
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 04, 2006, 05:47:09 PM
I have skipped over this thread until today - thanks for re-naming it!!!  I am a software IDIOT and I was able to start moving around in it in about 5min. - GREAT WORK!

I did a perf layout for a SparkleBoost (thanks Dragonfly).  I ran into one issue.  Unlike strip-board -  components can come off of the top or bottom of the board - not just the sides.  Is there any way to create more space between the Title/Credits and the board and the parts list and the board to make room for offboard components/connections/text above and below the board?

Thanks again - this thing ROCKS!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Connoisseur of Distortion on June 04, 2006, 05:50:33 PM
bancika, your program really is something. it's easy to use, VERY functional, easy to follow, and just what we all needed! thanks a ton!!

i'll have to make a couple of layouts down the road, here. MUCH easier than guessing the componant size and making a nasty grey mass on notebook paper!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 06:07:36 PM
Uploading new release. The most important change is multi select / delete / move in Explorer.
http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
Please check for SIL delete bug, I think it's fixed. Also, that strange "No active document" bug after submission, I didn't manage to replicate but I took a shot in a dark to fix it. Maybe it's ok. Please test.
Few other smaller fixes, don't remember exactly :)

Connoisseur of Distortion and stumper1: thanks!!!! :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 04, 2006, 07:08:30 PM
How do you draw under the board connections on perfboard?
I can't figure it out?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 04, 2006, 07:15:25 PM
Hmmm...all connections are same  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 04, 2006, 07:19:43 PM
So should you just use the jumpers then?  I'd prefer to have a different tool for under the board ones...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 04, 2006, 07:39:34 PM
I ran into this little problem too today when I thought I could place the jumpers more like the way I will use them inside its box.

I was able to place the jumpers, but didn't have enough place for the text identifying the jumpers. I think it wouldn't need a lot of new space to do the job...

I also found a faster way to delete many components today to make a template with only the jumpers and the cut tracks on it. I use the DEL key, starting from the first component, and just keep deleting the components one after the other. It's faster than right-clicking and choosing delete for every one of them.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 04, 2006, 08:57:04 PM
I may have missed it - but - can parts (like trimmers) be easily rotated?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 04, 2006, 09:49:00 PM
Hey, there were so many new posts that I missed that you uploaded a new release with the multi components selects. Thanks, works like a charm.
That's why I mentioned that I was using the DEL key. I found that I could use it while waiting for the new version.  :icon_redface:

Also, I submited a new layout this evening to test if the "No active component" bug was fixed, and it seems that you fixed it. It worked perfectly this time.

So you can delete the layout I sent you to test the program, it's only a version of the same Chaos layout I made for myself. I didn't have any new layout to test it...

Added: I just noticed that the Chaos layout was not on your site. Is it possible that it was not sending you the layout AND showing the "No active component" window" ?
           If so, I will send you the 24x10 layout of the Chaos circuit instead of the one I sent you this evening. Tell me more about that.

Thanks again.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 05, 2006, 04:10:12 AM
I received only one Chaos layout (31x10). It doesn't appear on site automatically, I have to upload it. Send 24x10 one and I'll switch it.
stumper1: there's no component rotation yet, you can use replace option from drop down menu to place it on new posistion.
rockgardenlove: yeah, use jumpers: look at ROG's layouts. All connections are the same and nobody seems to have problem with that. It's easy to determine which connection is underboard.
Thanks to all who submited layouts!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 05, 2006, 04:12:57 PM
Ok, I sent you the original layout I tried to send twice when the bug was there.

It's the one called "ChaosLeds.diy"

So the bug was really that it was ALSO not sending the file, and opening the error window. I thought it was sending the file but only opening the window error. But it's ok now.

Good point. My goal was to open last used tree, just I wan't thinking about replacing components. Routine opens tree with newest component, so when you update existing component it goes back to newest component again. I'll change that!
Do you still have the intention of changing that?

Thanks

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 05, 2006, 04:32:18 PM
Thanks for layout.
As for bug, it will be fixed, but can't do it now. Have exam tomorrow  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 05, 2006, 04:49:03 PM
hey, bancika:

is it possible to select multiple components in different categories?  or a "select all" function would be awesome!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Connoisseur of Distortion on June 05, 2006, 05:10:17 PM
for actual jumpers, i place traces from the PCB list. just switch properties over to PCB, select trace, set, switch back to perf.

yuh. it does the job.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 05, 2006, 05:19:48 PM
hehe, interesting way round. what's wrong with regular jumpers? do you want them thicker?
as for multi-select in more categories, I don't know. I made one category to autoclose when other is selected to avoid mess in Explorer...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 05, 2006, 05:28:40 PM
The way I see it - the traces would show connections uder the perfboard and the jumpers would show connections on top.  Using just the jumpers make it hard to tell the difference.

I also would love to see a "select all".

Oh yeah - THANK YOU!  Even as it is - this thing is awesom.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 06, 2006, 12:33:23 AM
Then I'll leave trace component available all time, not only in PCB mode...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: alteredsounds on June 06, 2006, 06:07:31 AM
Superb programe mate, just what I needed! Thanks :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: SuzukiScottie on June 06, 2006, 07:11:08 AM
This just gets better and better! Many thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 06, 2006, 10:01:50 AM
Thanks, appreciate it!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: darkseid on June 10, 2006, 06:33:58 PM
bancika, really good job on the program.  I have been working on one myself but not as good as yours, I know it's hard work to create something like that, many thanks for lettiing us try it out. :icon_wink:  Oh! on your project=layouts page, I sent in LM741 Distortion Author Psychostrat.   I noticed you misspelled LM741 and Psychostrat lol...no prob :icon_mrgreen:......  Keep up the good work....thanks again;


Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 10, 2006, 06:46:13 PM
Thanks  :icon_cool:
Next release should have pots and maybe jacks/switches.
Btw, I changed those mistakes on site :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 11, 2006, 07:18:02 PM
Once again, I just wanted to tell you thanks for the program, I like the way it works, and specially to be able to replace the components.

I realised that I spend about as much time to enter components than to change their location. So as I said before, the only thing I am still missing is having the component tree we're working on staying open instead of having to reopen it every time because it reopens the component tree of the last entered component.

Jacks and switches would indeed a good addition. I am working on the best way to do a box layout with the stripboard layouts I already made.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 12, 2006, 04:24:42 AM
i've been using this software a ton, and i love it.  i have a few things that i'd like to see in future versions, but would be happy with the software even if i didn't.  here goes...

1. select all function
2. rotate function
3. a "layout" size that is separate from the board's size.  for offboard components.  it would basically move the component list down, and the title/credits up.  this would really push the program into layout territory as well as board.
4. a border around both the component list and title/credits.  just to keep it nice n separate.
5. more components, of course.
6. text formatting options.
7. ability to lay down ICs horizontally.
8. i can't seem to get the "Print PnP" function to work.  it always just prints a blank page... not a big deal though.
9. again, not a big deal, but sometimes i run in to problems with the parent function between pads and components.  sometimes, the pads will move with a component that they aren't under.  weird...
10. an export function with the PnP scaled to correct size.  maybe to pdf.
11. correctly scaled rulers, so we can see the exact size of the board.

again, these are just suggestions, and i understand how hard programming is.  so, i don't expect any of them to actually happen, but it would be cool.  thanks for a truly useful program, bancika.

-choklitlove
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 12, 2006, 05:37:58 AM
Thanks to both of you :)
I had many of those features in mind, but as I told before those exams are really boring. About one more month and I'll be able to take some time for myself. One month from today Joe Satriani comes to my country  :icon_cool: great way to celebrate end of stupod exams.
Anyway, the program:
- I'm thinking of putting Help group out of right panel to make more space for explorer. That way I could leave all component trees open all time.
- I know about ruler, it will be done
- don't understand "ICs horizontally" thing
- I moved whole layout for 20px down which leaves more space between title and board
- text formating would be nice...but it's difficult to implement it into hwole system. Each component has 3 properties: name, value and unit. Formatting would take more properties. Maybe I could use unit field to choose font type or font size.
- I'll think about way to implement rotate
- export PnP should give file in right scale, try to print it please.
- I think "layout size" is unnecessary. While you work, layout size is limited only with your screen resolution (sorry, but can't make scroll) and when you export it to GIF program automatically crops image so everything fits inside
- what components you suggest to add?
Thanks again  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 12, 2006, 06:10:31 AM
nevermind about the horizontal ics (sorry!).  i have tried printing the exported pnp, and it was way too big.  but that gets into the whole printing to scale thing that really pisses me off.  i have only tried through mspaint and the gimp (freeware photoshop "equivalent") at the standard settings.  i really don't like thinking about all of that stuff so...

i don't mind not having a layout size, but the component names/values at the bottom get in my way (unless i make the board bigger).

components - jacks, pots, switches.  basically a lot of off-board stuff.  you've pretty much got the rest covered!  some sort of 'wire' graphic would be cool to connect all of it.  the traces work fine, though.  it just gets a little messy since they're all black...

one more suggestion- maybe some importing options.  for small pictures of our own.  in theory it would be simple, but it's probably not.

anyway, take your time on all that crap.  rest assured the program is at a good place right now.  thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 12, 2006, 10:23:05 AM
I tried in photoshop and it worked. It should be printed with 200dpi resolution, not default 72
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 12, 2006, 12:25:12 PM
Select all would still be great ;)  I also ran into a problem w/the pad/component relationship when trying to move an entire layout.  Some pads would mould move with BOTH the component  and just the selected pads.  It's hard to tell in navigator which pads are which without scrolling through all of them.  In the end I had to start all over - luckily it was a very small layout.

If there was any way to "point" at a component/trace/pad etc and see what # it is in navigator that might be helpful.  When working on large layouts it would make edits/changes MUCH easier.

Rulers would be awesome too.

A way to print text on a PCB might be cool too.

Love it so far - thanks!!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 13, 2006, 02:14:52 AM
I tried in photoshop and it worked. It should be printed with 200dpi resolution, not default 72
i tried that and it worked.  is there any way that it could be exported to print the right size at 72dpi?  that would really be cool!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 13, 2006, 09:32:40 AM
It's not a problem to scale it back to 72tpi, I just wanted better resolution to make lines smoother. Especially solder pads, I think they wil look rough in 72tpi. I'll try anyway
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: mutant_guitar on June 13, 2006, 11:28:52 AM
i just used your program yesterday for the first time and drew up a pcb layout for the Shaka Tube, i even posted it on this board to be double checked. anyway, this is my first time using any layout program, so i don't know what it should/shouldn't do, but i did notice a few things.

1. When i delete a component from the board, say R3, on the parts list on the bottom it will remove R3 from it's numerical sequence, leaving R4 and R5. If i later put in another resistor, R3 is added back to the list, but not in seqencial order. R3 is placed at the very bottom, so the list looks like this. R1... R2... R4... R5... R3. Something small and not very important, but none the less, something i noticed. Maybe you could have the program reasign the numbers to keep them in the proper numerical sequence, like, if i delete R3, R4 becomes R3, R5 to R4, so on. And if you want to insert a resistor in the sequence it does the same thing, so if i want a resistor between R3 and R4, R3 stays the same, the new resistor becomes R4, and R4 becomes R5.

2. Along the same lines, when i delete a component out of order, say solder pad #20, and i have 30 pads, the next pad i put down will be assigned #20. Now, if i deleted a pad from one section of a board, and then added a pad to a different section of the board, pad #20 will be surrounded by pads 27, 28, 29. When i use the parts tree to edit things, i have to scroll through the entire solder pad list to find the random pad that's out of order compared to the pads around it. Not a bid deal unless you're doing a slightly larger layout, with up to 60 or more solder pads. then it really gets confusing, and sometimes very annoying. Do you understand what i'm getting at here? i'm not sure i'm being clear enough.

3. Still along the same tangent, if i have components that are out of order, instead of searching through the parts tree list, would a "right-click" function be at all hard to program in? i think it would be very usefull to be able to right click on something and change/delete it instead of having to scroll through the entire parts tree.

4. Ditto on the "select all" function.

5. When using the text function, the prefix T is used for both text and traces. The program has now way of determining the difference between the two T's, so if i lay done some traces, then put some text on the layout, the text will be assigned the next trace number, and when i go to add more traces, it will skip the number the text box used. so if i have to traces i layed down next to each other, one could be T23 and the other would be T25. There would be no trace number 24, because there is a Text number 24.

all in all, a great program so far. just a bunch of little things here and there. if you want me to add my shaka tube layout to your library once i have it verified, just let me know and i'll e-mail the project file to you.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 13, 2006, 04:34:04 PM
It's not a problem to scale it back to 72tpi, I just wanted better resolution to make lines smoother. Especially solder pads, I think they wil look rough in 72tpi. I'll try anyway
you're probably right.  maybe when you go to export or print the pnp, an option will come up allowing you to select between dpi settings?  that would be really neat.  thanks again bancika!

also, i would love a way to select components without scrolling through the list.  i remember you mentioning something about it (maybe in the last release), but i don't think it's in there.

thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 13, 2006, 05:50:03 PM
I also noticed and mentionned the fact that the components gets mixed up like that, but a trick I began to use to deal with that is that I place a dummy component somewhere on the layout to reserve the name of that component in the list, and replace it later with the correct name and value when I need to place it.

That way, the component are in order in the component list.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 13, 2006, 06:30:31 PM
i just change the components' names after i'm all done.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 13, 2006, 07:24:15 PM
Let's see.
Setting DPI is not a problem, will be done.
About component naming. Would you preffer method "greatest existing + 1" over "first available number" used now.
How do you mean selecting without scrolling?
I'm thinking about way to select component by clicking on it...if my solution does not slow down program I'll make it.
I didn't notice same prefix for trace and text...will fix it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 13, 2006, 08:15:53 PM
I prefer "first available number" because "greatest existing + 1" would not make things better.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 13, 2006, 08:26:03 PM
Bancika, Thanks again the more I play around with your program the more I like it :icon_biggrin:
Still some bugs, but it is already the easiest layout program I have ever used!

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 13, 2006, 09:16:23 PM
another thing about the pnp rendering/printing:  would it be possible to render and print them in reverse?  i think that would be the last piece of the puzzle for pcbs.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: markm on June 13, 2006, 09:49:27 PM
I could be wrong but, I don't think you need to have anything reversed to print for PNP with this program.
Your looking at the traces from the top side with this program so when the PNP is finally ironed on to a blank,
everything should be in the correct direction.
   MarkM
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 13, 2006, 09:57:29 PM
yeah you're right.


sorry.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: markm on June 13, 2006, 10:08:39 PM
No problem my friend!
This is got to be one of the best DIY programs going though.
    MarkM
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 14, 2006, 01:17:21 AM
FYI -
I was running this on my old laptop w/Win ME.  The program ran fine - maybe a little unstable at times but it is an old computer.  When I went to print a PnP the quality was terrible.  I had printed the same thing from my other computer running XP and it was fine - however I do not have a laser printer hooked up to that computer.  I also noticed that things just didn't look "right" on the screen in ME or 98.  Pads were fuzzy and traces would vary in thickness depending on the angle. I've had XP for the laptop but was too lazy to load it as I've been considering just buying a new one anyway.  I loaded it up tonight and things look and print just fine now.  Not sure why there is a graphical issue with ME/98 but there appears to be one.... ???

Back to work.  Thanks for the program/tool Bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: stumper1 on June 14, 2006, 02:03:44 AM
Ooops. Spoke too soon.  Now I can't print PnP directly from the program - I have to render/resize in Photoshop first.  Any ideas?  Whenever I print for DIY Layout Creator iI just get a blank page :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: choklitlove on June 14, 2006, 02:04:38 AM
me too.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 14, 2006, 05:54:27 AM
I'll have to check thet out, but the thing is I don't have a printer so it's done pretty blindfolded. To make it more complicated it worked for some of you (with bad quality though).  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Samy on June 14, 2006, 10:21:03 AM
bancika, i want to thank you for this wonderful software !

I donīt know if someone mention this before but, can you add the option for selecting several tracks to change the values of the selected ones and the option to change the default size ?
Just a sugestion, why not square solder pads for ICīs ?

I can print pnp but itīs not 1:1 and the tracks are not with the correct value, a mirror print will be also great not to mention the possibility to write on the copper side !

Thanks and sorry to flood you with this ...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Gilles C on June 14, 2006, 06:13:46 PM
I just tried printing a PNP directly from the program to an HP Laserjet (printing quality is set to 600x600 dot per inch) and it worked without any problem or change to do.

I just hit "Print PNP", that's all. So the program is working well. The size was also correct. It was 1:1, and the quality was good.

Oh, I'm using it on a Laptop running XP.

Added: I also printed it to a pdf file with the program pdf995, then printed it from the pdf file created, and the size was correct once again.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: Samy on June 14, 2006, 06:50:02 PM
Sorry, my mistake ! I was using an older version .
I thought that the version in the older posts where the same ...
Iīve printed and itīs all o.k. !

Itīs my first day using this program but every time i use it, i like it even more ... Itīs really a nice little tool !
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator, for drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts [renamed]
Post by: bancika on June 14, 2006, 08:06:53 PM
alrighty then. When I tested I used some kind of PDF printer too, so I wasn't sure if it'll work ok with real printer.
Thanks for info.
When I catch some time I'll go through these suggestions once again and will do whatever possible. It will be soon.
And thanks for sending layouts, we have 25 of them at the moment. Currently top uploader is Dragonfly
Keep 'em coming guys :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 14, 2006, 10:30:08 PM
I think you should move the Created by... and your link between the project name and credits or at least below the credits line. And change it to the same blue as the project name. Be proud of your hard work, that dingy gray at the bottom is barely visible!

How hard would it be to add a text field below the layout? The text strings work but any editing is limited to the small line that is in front of you. My spelling is not great so I usually write up build notes etc. with Word, spell check then copy and paste.

Thanks
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 03:46:21 AM
Hmm..I don't quite understand second one  :icon_rolleyes:
As for first one, I didn't want to make it bother users too much. Since I plan to put pots in the game, many people will use precious space between board and credits to stick them there :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dano12 on June 15, 2006, 08:40:51 AM
Ive been using this over the last few days now. Fantastic work!

I don't know if it has been suggested before, but the single most important feature I would ask for:

Add a pointer option as the top option in the toolbox. When it is selected, I can click on any item on the perfboard and it selects it in the treeview.

That alone would save me hours of work (i.e. no more scrolling through the huge treeview to find a component to move or delete)

Thanks again for your super-cool software!

-dano
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 09:02:11 AM
I'm brainstorming with myself on how to do it for a while :) I think I have an idea. Not an elegant solution, cause it will require ~2MB of RAM more, but I don't think it'll make much difference with modern PC's with 512MB or more
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dano12 on June 15, 2006, 09:06:05 AM
I'm brainstorming with myself on how to do it for a while :) I think I have an idea. Not an elegant solution, cause it will require ~2MB of RAM more, but I don't think it'll make much difference with modern PC's with 512MB or more

I'd imagine you already have an array of board objects in memory. Objects with properties? If each one has a unique index, you can use the click event on the object and do a lookup in the array to find its index, then highlight the appropriate treeview item. (I'm assuming a lot here :)

What is this written in?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 09:41:56 AM
Yes, I did it :) It works, and no much of slow down if I can determine. Right click on component on board selects it in explorer and popup menu jumps on place where you clicked so it can be renamed, deleted, modded  :icon_idea:
anyway, dano. It's written in Delphi. Objects are kept in memory but only in text format (XML), like
Code: [Select]
<Resistor Value="2.7K" X1="4" Y1="4" X2="4" Y2="1" Name="R2"/>[/size]
with only that information you can't determine what lies below cursor because each component has different shape. The idea is to make bitmap mask in memory. It's all black (0 color) and on every pixel that covers component I changed color to act as a pointer to component. So when you right click somewhere program checks color on mask bitmap and if it's not black it selects that component in explorer. Simple but working :) And it works with all components including traces, jumpers and text.
I'll upload new version this evening. Anyone has idea what to do with help menu. I'd like to free that space for explorer. What about floating menu in new window? Or on the bottom of window?
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: dano12 on June 15, 2006, 09:50:39 AM
Ok, I understand the architecture a bit better. Moving forward it may be problematic keeping your objects as XML strings. Much better idea would to be have a master object class the derived classes for each of the tools (components, pads, traces, etc.) Then you can hang properties off each and manipulate them without string parsing. Just a suggestion.

Have you done any programming in .NET? You are obviously good in Delphi, you'd be *great* in .NET :)

Looking forward to the new build.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 10:14:49 AM
Why, you can put whatever you like in XML  :icon_question:
All objects contain (and probably all future objects will contain) only data fields and not procedures. XML fields can accept any type of data (text, numbers, binary) so it will hold very well. Second reason is that project is represented same in the memory and in DIY file. As for organization it's preety much object-like. Different procedures do actual drawing and one HUGE Render() proedure calls them and assembles board. And I don't pare XML manually, there are components that do all the job automatically and it's very nice and easy. Like
Code: [Select]
XML.AddNode, XML.Nodes[i].Attributes['Value'], etc. It would be major pain in the ass to manually create and parse XML.

It's not 100% well organized but considering I work alone it's not bad :icon_biggrin:

Btw, I don't like .NET :)

Update: I think it's enough work for today, here's link
http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
check out right click selection on board, Ctrl+A in explorer selects all components, few minor changes
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Coriolis on June 15, 2006, 11:25:35 AM
Would it be possible to get DIP 14 objects in there? Like a quad opamp (say, TL074) or a LM13700? I could put 2 DIP 8 on top of each other, but it would look confusing. If it's already there and I missed it, I am sorry. It's a great program! :icon_cool:

C
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 15, 2006, 11:42:43 AM
You can use any number of pins for DIP components. You just decide yourself where you want the pin 1 and the other corner pin.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dano12 on June 15, 2006, 12:00:32 PM
Awesome! That one change alone is huge.

Thanks.

Why, you can put whatever you like in XML  :icon_question:
All objects contain (and probably all future objects will contain) only data fields and not procedures. XML fields can accept any type of data (text, numbers, binary) so it will hold very well. Second reason is that project is represented same in the memory and in DIY file. As for organization it's preety much object-like. Different procedures do actual drawing and one HUGE Render() proedure calls them and assembles board. And I don't pare XML manually, there are components that do all the job automatically and it's very nice and easy. Like
Code: [Select]
XML.AddNode, XML.Nodes[i].Attributes['Value'], etc. It would be major pain in the ass to manually create and parse XML.

It's not 100% well organized but considering I work alone it's not bad :icon_biggrin:

Btw, I don't like .NET :)

Update: I think it's enough work for today, here's link
http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
check out right click selection on board, Ctrl+A in explorer selects all components, few minor changes
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 15, 2006, 12:18:54 PM
Humm... is right-clicking on components included in this last version? I don't see it working here.

The only differences I see are the full screen at start and all the component trees opened in the explorer.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dano12 on June 15, 2006, 12:23:29 PM
Works for me. Try left-clicking on the image first. Then right click. You should get a popup menu.

Ctrl-A seems to work if you first click a node in the treeview. Give it a few seconds--it is not instantaneous.

I found one problem with Ctrl-A. It selects everything in my layout. But when I press one of the "move" arrows, it moves everything except the IC.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 12:42:19 PM
it should work without left clicking before.
as for select all, you don't have to click on node, but anywhere on explorer pane. I'll make it work anywhere.
I tried moving more components and IC's moved  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 15, 2006, 03:49:38 PM
Nah, I tried clicking left first, it does't work.

And CTRL-A selects all, but doesn't delete everything.

And here is what happens when I try to move what I selected with CTRL-A, with an arrow.

(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/Err2.jpg)

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Samy on June 15, 2006, 05:08:23 PM
When i render the pnp with one trace selected, that track is not black !

( sorry my English ) ...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 15, 2006, 05:14:43 PM
so don't select a trace before rendering.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 15, 2006, 08:49:21 PM
Gilles C: It'll be fixed
choklitlove: haha, nice fix :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: goosonique on June 15, 2006, 10:14:14 PM
Phenomenal
:icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: fixr1984 on June 15, 2006, 10:23:05 PM
When you save a file it asks you if you want to go online and save it to the official layout gallery.
Where is that? Can that be used to post it and have it verified?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 16, 2006, 06:05:43 AM
Layout gallery is here http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts) and you can get there by clicking "Layouts Online" in program. Everyone should post their layouts and someone will veryfy it sooner or later.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on June 16, 2006, 09:08:35 AM
How about adding 'date uploaded' and 'verified by' columns - would be useful for those of us wanting to know what's new and what works.
Than's for all the good work.
Mike
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 16, 2006, 10:51:18 AM
Hmmm...I'm thinking about way to do it properly. It's hard to make people send verification, most of them will forget. As for date, I don't think it's necessary. Layouts are sorted first by category and then by date so new layouts are ones on top of each category. Date column would take much space. It would be great to have verification system that works. It's not a problem for me to add Verified column, but 95% of them will not have verified status. Not because they aren't good, but because nobody told me. And I really don't have time to do verification of each layout.

Some of layouts have UNVERIFIED warning, in anyone of you does verify it please delete warning text (or change it to "Verified by XXX") and send layout back to me. I'll update it in gallery

Btw, I'm working on those bugs you noticed in last release. I think I got them all.

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 16, 2006, 11:06:47 AM
I think we can all take care of the verification part of the layouts.

If a mistake is found, we can just send the corrected layout to you, and mention the reason. A note could be added on the layout to say it was built successfully and that the layout is good.

And if a mistake is found by someone on one of the layout, it should be mentionned to the one who made the layout, not to you.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 16, 2006, 11:44:03 AM
Sure, sounds reasonable. There are at least dozen of you, so two layouts each doesn't make much of a work  :icon_rolleyes:
I noticed one error, but can't remember in which layout. Someone put 8pin DIL IC, but instead of 4x4 size it's 4x3. Easy mistake to make. I'll add some kind of warining if user tries to add some weird sized ICs.
Btw, I'm writting Tutorials at the moment  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 16, 2006, 07:41:49 PM
New version is up. I changed all bugs noticed from last time (or I hope I did), added tutorial for all important feature (tell me it it needs anything else) and did some cosmetic fixes (dialog boxes look batter now).
Check it out :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 16, 2006, 09:17:49 PM
First, the good news: I can now do a multi-select with CTRL-A, and I am able to move all these parts together with the arrows.

And the help file is a good addition. Working well and looking good.

Now, how can I stop this multi-select? I can't un-select them. They stay selected after that. I tried ESC and clicking elsewhere in the window.

And right-click still doesn't work on my PC. The first time I tried it, I saw a crossline symbol when I was moving the cursor above the components, not the second time I tried.

Ok, I know why I didn't see the cross the second time. It's because I started with a new layout, and added a few components, then tried to right-click them.

How can I get out of the component adding routine? I can't left-click a component because it keeps adding new components once I started doing it, and right-click doesn't do anything.

But no more window error.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: fixr1984 on June 16, 2006, 10:15:21 PM
Trace cuts that are behind a cap or a resistor are kinda hard to see. Anyway to make them show up darker.
Other than that I really love what you've done with the program.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 17, 2006, 04:34:21 AM
You can right click even when in component adding routine, just right-click :)
To unselect all items just click on some category item that is not selected.
Making trace cuts more visible under components would mean making components less visible. That could be a problem
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on June 17, 2006, 08:53:48 AM
So right-click really doesn't work on my PC.

And when I multi-select components with CTRL-A, the selected components names are highlighted dark gray. When I click on a separate component, it gets selected on the layout with its wires getting RED, and all the component names get light gray instead of dark grey.

And if I use the arrows, all the component move instead of the single one with the red wires.

From there, if I click in the explorer window without selecting any component, all the components names go back to the dark gray color to show they are still selected. I can't get out of the multi-select mode.

 ???

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 17, 2006, 10:07:20 AM
For right click...it must work  ??? :icon_exclaim:
As for multi-select, I forgot to update something from single-select era. Only last selected component makes red wires although more than one component is selected. As I said before, when all items are selected those category tree nodes like [Resistors] stay unselected. Click on it and all other will becume unselected. I'll make Esc shortcut for unselect.
Component names turn light gray when Explorer is not in Focus, not when they are unselected.
Hope you get it now :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 20, 2006, 08:21:12 PM
Oopps, I see that you CAN paste text from Word :icon_redface: Sorry don't know what I tried the first time?!

The changes you made are great! The tutorial is looking good as well.

On the web page it would be nice to have a revision # or some other way to tell if a layout had been updated in any way.

Thanks
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bluetubes on June 20, 2006, 08:44:18 PM
Bancika.....I am blown away!  :o  This is truly a fantastic program.  Great job!!!   :icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 21, 2006, 05:07:54 AM
On the web page it would be nice to have a revision # or some other way to tell if a layout had been updated in any way.
Thanks
Richard

hmmm, revision number won't mean much to users because that means they have to remember last revision. Maybe date is better  :icon_rolleyes: but anyway something needs to be added there :)

bluetubes, thanks  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 21, 2006, 06:46:48 AM
I can't seem to submit layouts now. When I try I get a message telling me to check my internet connection. It happened last night and again this morning.

Richard

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: d@vide on June 21, 2006, 07:00:34 AM
Hi Bancika,
a better solution is a version in the file name like diyLC_1_10 or something like that...
when I download the file instantly I know if is a newer version or not ... isn't it  :)

ciao Marwatt
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 21, 2006, 10:06:03 AM
well, for something it is better and for something it isn't. If I submit program to download sites I have to specify fixed file name. When someone tries to download it from other sites he'll get older version. I think the best solution is to put release date on program download page.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on June 22, 2006, 01:58:13 AM
Bancika,

Getting better all the time!!! ;)  Submitted a Wah layout - it would be nice to submit when "I" want to NOT when the program asks - I sometimes click "OK" when I don't mean to.  Submitted the Wah twice - the second one is the right one - and IS VERIFIED (see picture thread).

I noticed that you cannot scroll down on a page (or can you?).  The Wah layout was big enought that I could not see the parts list to verify it before submitting.  Had to "render image" and view it that way to verify it.

I still can't print PnP from my laptop to my laser printer w/out rendering first.  I'm pretty sure this is MY problem as I seem to be able to print to the Inkjet on my OTHER computer with no problems.

Any word on a "SELECT ALL" function? ;)

Thanks,
Deric 8)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 22, 2006, 05:21:20 AM
Hi,
I've added "Submit Layout" option right next to "Layouts Online" so you can submit whenever you want. Select All has been added in last release but had some bugs. Everything's fixed now but I didn't upload it yet.
Edit: thanks for layout, I added it. Just few tips: if board was horizontal it would be easier to see everything. Next, IC1 isn't really an IC, so putting " " (space) as component name will make it only gray rectangle without IC1 writing on it. I changed that for ya.
Scrolling is impossible at the moment unfortunately
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 22, 2006, 07:30:51 AM
I see you added a date on the web page :icon_biggrin:

I resubmitted the last 2 pcb layouts, no major changes. I had listed the pad connections instead of trying to put text at the board. Only problem was that I used the grid numbers and letters as the pad locations and those do not show when you render the image.

Simple fix, I just number the pads.

Thanks
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 22, 2006, 09:34:35 AM
Interesting, I noticed the same thing when I opened your layout. It made me wonder if coordinates should be rendered also on output image :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on June 22, 2006, 12:51:34 PM
Would be a nice option to create a print with coordinates...good reference for large perf/vero layouts.

Regarding software revision tracking - if you added a 'last updated on' date to the download page, we'd all be able to know instantaly if it had changed since our last install.  I think this would meet everyone's needs.

Thanks again for all your work!  I'm looking forward to off-board wiring capability to show switching - such a pain to do in Excel!  Will the component list be moveable once the off-board wiring capability is added?  Just popped into my head.

Thanks again.
Mike
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 22, 2006, 01:07:52 PM
I don't think that it would really be necessary with pcb's. It was easy enough just to number the pads then make a list of the connections. Maybe with vero and perf? Say someone who does not have or use the program gets a rendered image it might be usefull then. Or maybe troubleshooting / mods you could use them as a reference point.

Can't hurt, I guess if it is not that difficult go ahead and do it. However if it's a big change I really would not worry about it. I can't see how it would be that helpfull in most cases.

My 2 cents.
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 22, 2006, 01:15:39 PM
well it's not hard to da at all. Same routine paint on screen and renders. And there's one condition that says "if you render for screen then print coordinates", I'll just change condition :)
Resealse date has been added to site
Regards!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 23, 2006, 10:54:39 AM
What do you guys think of this idea: "Check for Update" feature that would list all new features between installed version and last released version? Is it worth doing?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on June 23, 2006, 12:44:18 PM
What do you guys think of this idea: "Check for Update" feature that would list all new features between installed version and last released version? Is it worth doing?

I think that is a fantastic idea!
Banicka, Your software is superb for doing layouts and has helped me in
learning how to read schematics and layout circuits.
Thank you very much for your help!!!
    MarkM
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Hal on June 23, 2006, 01:03:57 PM
wow, amazing.

mad propz.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 23, 2006, 02:34:39 PM
Ok then, I'll try to do it asap. I'm not feeling too well last two days so I'm able to do anything usefull (can't even sleep  :icon_sad:)
By the way, markM, you gave me idea to design next project (Matchless Hotbox), your etched boxes look great. Just I don't like etching too much (never got decent results with PCBs) and will try to do it with local engravement company (either with laser or CNC router). Here's a peek :)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/hotbox.gif)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 24, 2006, 08:17:03 AM
I uploaded new version with "check for update" function. I think it's pretty much intelligent, lists only features that are added/changed between  installed and last version. So if you skipped few updates it'll list all features you miss. And I won't have to post here every time I upload it. Besides that I fixed all noticed multi-select related bugs
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on June 24, 2006, 09:44:45 AM
Ok then, I'll try to do it asap. I'm not feeling too well last two days so I'm able to do anything usefull (can't even sleep  :icon_sad:)
By the way, markM, you gave me idea to design next project (Matchless Hotbox), your etched boxes look great. Just I don't like etching too much (never got decent results with PCBs) and will try to do it with local engravement company (either with laser or CNC router). Here's a peek :)


I like it!!!
Engraving is a great idea!
That's out of my realm however ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 24, 2006, 11:33:02 AM
Still not sure if I'll do it that way because I've heard that this company is very expensive. My previous engravement projects in plexi are done in other company which is very cheap but their laser is weak for metal :(
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on June 24, 2006, 12:02:57 PM
Just made a PCB for Paul Nelson's CitrusGraphicMKII (ORANGE) preamp emu.  I had to do some post-processing, so the layout/schem is in this Excel file:
http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/ORANGE/OrangeMKII%5Fmydementia.xls

I downloaded the latest software this morning and created the layout. 

Here are my observations:
1) It doesn't like circuits of this size.  Towards the end of the layout, everything I did pegged my processor and had a substantial delay.
2) Moving 'all' (using CTRL-A) doesn't work (thus, my layout is down 2 rows).  It would be nice if the user could adjust the board after the layout is complete.
3) It would be nice if the text was more mobile.  As you can see, it's difficult to make out text over the Pads, etc.

Here's the file if someone wants to check it out.
http://www.freewebs.com/mydementia/DIY%5FStompboxes/ORANGE/OrangeMKII%5FPCBr0.diy
I'm going to try to build the thing this weekend - so if anyone sees a major f-up on my part, please let me know.
Mike
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 24, 2006, 12:24:25 PM
I just tried your layout. I must admit that program is not optimized too well yet so with big layouts it can be slow (transparent drawing isn't helping much with speed). Looks there are more bugs left. I tried moving all components and it worked (slow, though) and moved all components but two or three traces left unmoved.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: d@vide on June 26, 2006, 01:03:12 PM
Hi Bancika,
the software grewup wery well thanks for your effort! (but my PC is a little tired :-( )
tip.. is possible add electrolitics and poliester caps with right dimension? eg the diameter of a 2200uF 35V is 1.5cm.
This would be a great aid to make a pcb.
Is too much?? I can send you the measure of electrolitics and poliester with the right pass.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 26, 2006, 02:06:30 PM
well, for electros it's great idea, but for caps...maybe they use ceramic caps, or ones in plastic block...
Anyway, I'm exhausted these days. Today I had exam, have one tomorrow, then in friday, then...  :icon_sad:
But it's worth thinking and you can send me data. I'll use it when the time comes. Diameter also depends on voltage of cap, but there isn't voltage field. So, we'll assume they use the most common ones, either 16V, 25V or 35V for stompboxes.
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on June 26, 2006, 02:14:56 PM
For Elctro cap spacing I've found that if you just skip one hole between the two
solder pads it's good to go.
I've even used two pads next to each other for electros and though its'
a bit on the tight side, it still works fine.
I don't know if this would work for vero as I have only used the PCB format.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 26, 2006, 02:34:10 PM
Hmm, I think we're talking about different things. Mark, do you think about lead spacing?
d@vide is talking about electro diameter.
I don't think lead spacing is much of importance, because you can always stick one into another. I had problem with WIMA caps with short 5mm spaced leads to stick into holes spaced 2.54mm, but generally it's ok.
Right?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on June 26, 2006, 02:38:05 PM
Ooops....
Yeah, I was addressing lead spacing.
Sorry... :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on June 26, 2006, 05:16:04 PM
The most important thing is that you know the component sizes when you are designing a layout. If you have a big cap just leave extra room for it. The ability to do that is one of the things I like best about this program.

There is no possible way to have every size / shape of every component. Don't even try.
For an example, I have 10uF 16v electrolytic caps from 3 different manufacturers and they are all different sizes. Add to that list 10uf tantalum caps that are the size of a pencil lead, then you have radial caps and now lets look at 25v, 35v, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.


Richard

Sorry hope that does not sound like a rant, I really did not mean it to be :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 26, 2006, 06:16:35 PM
Yeah, you're right. Any try to match size of actual caps is shoot in the dark. There are no guarantees it will be more accurate than it is now.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: disto on June 26, 2006, 06:45:51 PM
wow im impressed very nice piece of kit! i will be using it soon im sure!!

uh one little thing the "check for updates" should it recognise when you have most up to date version? if you click the botton it states there is a new update, and once this is installed and you click the update button again it still says there is a new update. perhaps a function that says your software is uptodate no need to download would be useful or just the updates are given a version number so you can cross reference with the version you are running?! just an idea.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Peter Snowberg on June 26, 2006, 07:51:57 PM
Yeah, you're right. Any try to match size of actual caps is shoot in the dark. There are no guarantees it will be more accurate than it is now.

I order caps from Mouser & Digikey based on their physical dimensions.

What about having two diameters of electrolytic?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 27, 2006, 12:29:00 AM
About updates: it's my mistake. There's one place in program where I need to update version each time before upload. I forgot to do it so program "thinks" it's still previous version. It'll be ok with next ver.
As for electros...can you think of a way to do it without making new component (like two types of trimmers with same component). It can draw bigger one when hole distance is greater than 1 or 2 perhaps??
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: d@vide on June 27, 2006, 04:59:20 AM
perhaps 3 or 4 diameters for electro is enough... eg 10uF, 100uF, 1000uF and 2200uF
It obvious that you cannot put any size per any voltage... too much item.
But if I would make a power supply PCB with 2200uF filter caps (like I do now) I must consider diameter and lead spacing.
Idem for poliester caps ( the boxed types) .... here 2 or 3 largenesses is enough.

Anyway W Bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 27, 2006, 05:10:56 AM
As for electros...can you think of a way to do it without making new component (like two types of trimmers with same component). It can draw bigger one when hole distance is greater than 1 or 2 perhaps??
a way would be an option in the pop-up that happens when you add a component.  you know, where you enter the value and name.  the lead spacing should stay the same for electros and trimmers.  when you enter the value, the program could tell how big the cap would be depending on the value.  if/then statements would work for that i think.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 27, 2006, 05:47:41 AM
It's not hard to do but it would change concept a little. See, as I explained before (100 posts or so  :icon_razz:) I have unique system for storing/drawing components. Each component is determined with 5 properties:
Record type (determines component type), name (component name), value, X1, X2, Y1, Y2 for source and destination hole coordinates. I would have to change that system for adding property that would only be used with electros. It kinda sucks :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 28, 2006, 08:35:07 PM
Today I added rotation, some of you asked for it.
Anyway, it's done like this: you can rotate more than one component at the same time and they are rotated around center of area they cover. I think it's better than rotate each of them around itself. This was little harder to do..
what do you think?
btw, it's uplodaded  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on June 28, 2006, 10:53:48 PM
Bancika,

Does that mean you can now "select all" and then "rotate" too?

Thanks SO much for all your hard work.

Deric
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 29, 2006, 12:09:00 AM
bancika- i downloaded the latest version.  i'm not seeing any rotate button next to the move arrows.  am i missing something? 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 29, 2006, 05:24:11 AM
Damn, I uploaded wrong file :)
It's ok now
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: $uperpuma on June 29, 2006, 12:39:44 PM
i really like this program Bancika.. I made a bunch of Mill. 2 bypass boards with it...and it was quick and easy...thanks for all your hard work on it!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 29, 2006, 05:03:58 PM
bancika: i 'm still not seeing it...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Leviathan on June 29, 2006, 07:13:46 PM
Wow that program is great - you did an awesome job

Being a beginner, I REALLY like the resistor calculator XD
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 29, 2006, 07:34:26 PM
Thanks Leviathan,
speaking of calculator, I found mistake, so when you convert value to color code you might get wrong result. It will be fixed.
choklitlove, damn I'm total moron. Uploaded wrong version again :) Now it should be ok.

By the way, someone just submited layout for HIAWATA (guess it's hiwat emulator), but it lacks pot labels and descriptions, so if guy who made it reads this please update it and send it again. I'll be more than happy to upload it.
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 29, 2006, 07:45:21 PM
choklitlove, damn I'm total moron. Uploaded wrong version again :) Now it should be ok.
that's cool.  it works perfectly now, and is a very awesome feature.  good job!

what program do you use to make this software?  visualbasic?  something else?  what language?  i remember you saying earlier, but this is a behemoth thread now, so i don't want to look.  what's the chance of this ware ever being open source?  thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 29, 2006, 08:31:57 PM
It's made in Delphi 7. As for source code, I'm using some components that are not free, so even if one has source it cannot be compiled.
I'm willing to share segments of source. I doubt that someone will have guts to rewrite more than 4000 lines to make it work on other platform.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 29, 2006, 09:02:57 PM
:(
I'm still bitter over the lack of a Mac version. :D

Really amazing job.  Nice one.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on June 30, 2006, 12:38:12 AM
Did I miss something...

I thought I read that "Select All" was now added.  I just downloaded new version and don't see it - I DO see the "rotate" function...NICE!!!! :icon_cool:  Read back thru the last couple of pages and didn't see anything about the "Select All".

Was I imagining this - or did it happen?

Thanks,
Deric
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 30, 2006, 01:07:14 AM
read manual  :icon_idea:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on June 30, 2006, 04:21:01 AM
:(
I'm still bitter over the lack of a Mac version. :D

Really amazing job.  Nice one.


he said he uses delphi 7, which i don't know anything about.  but several programming wares i've seen have an export for mac function.  maybe delphi doesn't though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 30, 2006, 08:10:00 AM
Nope, delphi compiles only Win applications. There's Kylix, which is delphi for linux, but you can't open same project (it uses some platform specific components, like menu on left)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: stumper1 on June 30, 2006, 12:07:08 PM
read manual  :icon_idea:

Duh!!!  Thanks!  I swear I read it last night but........  I'll look closer next time. :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 30, 2006, 12:59:50 PM
Call for all: if you think there's something I should add to Tutorials please post here or PM/mail me...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: stankyfish on June 30, 2006, 01:50:49 PM
:(
I'm still bitter over the lack of a Mac version. :D

Really amazing job.  Nice one.

I'm currently scoping out what it would take for the Mac and what would be the best approach.  Keep asking and I might just get around to producing something, since I, too, use a Mac most of the time.    ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rockgardenlove on June 30, 2006, 04:40:50 PM
Oooo yesss!  ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: stumper1 on July 01, 2006, 12:53:26 PM
Call for all: if you think there's something I should add to Tutorials please post here or PM/mail me...

Bancika, 
On your web site it says you can adjust the width of traces and solder pads.  I didn't see that in the Tutorial - of course this wouldn't be the first time I missed something. :-\
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 01, 2006, 03:56:41 PM
Good idea, I forgot to add it (before I do it, Value property sets width of traces). Unit is PIXELS, not mm
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on July 01, 2006, 04:05:19 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 06, 2006, 08:46:24 AM
Hey guys, it's been a while. I had some complaints that sometimes it's not easy to see trace/cut below components. I was thinking about that and came up with this: when you want to "reveal" part of the board just move cursor over it and press SPACE. Whole area with 1cm diameter is made more transparent (components only, not board/traces/cuts/jumpers) so it's easier to see below. When you're done peeking below press SPACE again and it's all normal. I uploaded new version, check it out and tell me what you think of it.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on July 06, 2006, 11:09:59 AM
Dear Bancika:

Receive my sincere congratulations for the great layout software you've written. It is very likely its becoming the layout standard for the forum. I love the visual appearance of the program. A real treat to the eyes.

I've refrained to report bugs and suggestions during the initial stage of development to avoid overwhelming you with requests since you've been working freely and generously on this. Nevertheless, I started using the program myself and feel some things might be improved, so here I go:

BUGS:

1. When rotating a part with an even size (like a length 3 capacitor or DIP14 IC) the component size is changed to an even size, thus the size 3 capacitor turns into size 2 and the DIP14 which covers a 3x7 grid space changes to 4x7.  This behaviour does not hapen with even sized components or DIP8 package. The component should be rotated without altering its size.

2. The standard size of the tracks should be an ODD number (like 5, for instance), otherwise when doing a PnP render in PCB mode the tracks come off uncentered out of the pads.

SUGGESTIONS:

1. It should be great to be able to define the current trace and solder pad sizes to use in the Board Properties menu, so you don't have to keep editing each trace/pad individually should you decide to use other size for the complete project.

2. In PCB mode the leads of the components which are black mix up with the tracks. In order to avoid this I would suggest making  the components leads another color. Gray would be fine, as it corresponds to the actual appearance.

3. In order to allow seeing through the components to have a better view of the tracks underneath, I would suggest having two settings of alpha for the components, on is the standard alpha (currently used), and a very light one. I would alternate between these two settings with the space bar, for instance. I think doing this for the complete board instead of a small area is preferred and simpler.

4. The right-click button action is a bit confusing for selecting a component. I think the first menu item of the right-click action should be called "Select" instead of "Replace" (after all, what are you replacing?).  Also, I would suggest to implement double-click as a means to select a component in case you just want to move it, rotate it or delete it.  Currently the right-click action forces you to right click on the component and the select the "Replace" item and then go to the arrows.

5. The Explorer side bar is a great aid, however I'm not really sure of the usefulness of showing SOLDER PADS and TRACES here, as these elements don't have an ID on the board side. I collapsed the TRACES and SOLDER PADS sublists, however adding another component automatically expanded the SOLDER PADS view again. When more than 20 solder pads are present this just clutters the view. I believe the SOLDER PADS and TRACES are not necessary to be shown on the Explorer sidebar, since you can still select, edit and move them around.

6. Trimmers with 3 pins in a row would be good to have as well.

Sorry if I'm being a PITA.

Best regards,

STM
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 06, 2006, 11:45:26 AM
Hey STM,
First of all thanks for kind words and for feedback. Let's start:
BUGS:
1) Hmm...I think I noticed that also. The thing is, component place is determined by two points. I use affine transformations to rotate those points around center point (center can be real number, if area size is even). So when you rotate two integer points you can get real points. But to place them on board I have to round to integers. Than it can happen to round one to greater value and one to smaller value so you get changed size. I'll think about solving that, tnx.
2) Damn, I didn't see that. Good point :)
SUGGESTIONS:
1) Integesting, I'm not sure if it should be defined on project level or global level (program settings), but it should be added, that's for sure.
2) I'll do it now, great.
3) Maybe you're right, I'll try that.
4) Hmm...right click does both selection and popup menu. So if you don't want to do anything from menu just close it (Esc or click on blank area). But I admit it's little stupid...
5) Maybe you're right, but then it would require changing lots of code. How about this: trace and pad categories don't auto-expand?
6) I didn't know those exist (after all, I'm pretty new into electronics...just over 6 months) :)

Thanks again for suggestions. I'm stuck with exams until next week, so I can't do much till then. I'm glad that many people involved into this, it will help me make program we can all use...

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on July 06, 2006, 03:22:16 PM
This image summarizes the trimpot kinds. I am using the second from left to right, which is currently not included.

(http://i6.tinypic.com/1z53zvt.png)

Regarding keeping the lists collapsed is a good solution to avoid cluttering the Explorer view with respect to the SOLDER PADS and TRACES.

Another bug related to rotation: I placed a trimpot (2x2) in PCB mode and when I rotated one of the solder pads did not rotate properly.

Cheers.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 06, 2006, 03:50:59 PM
Tnx for image. I'll think about it. I got few minutes to change some stuff now:
- component leads are now dark gray
- fixed problem with rotation (resizing components and bad pads with trimmers)
- I put Pads, Traces, Text, Cut tracks and Jumpers not to auto-expand, do you think some of them should expand?
- default track width is 5px
Tnx again
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on July 06, 2006, 05:52:04 PM
Wow, that was fast.
I think the items you chose not to auto-expand are just fine.
I'm eager to try these fixes.

Cheers,

STM
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 06, 2006, 06:14:32 PM
Well, all those stuff I changed took less than an hour to do. I did it when making break from studying :)
It's uploaded on server...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on July 06, 2006, 07:00:43 PM
Just tried to update my software - install files corrupted...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 06, 2006, 07:21:45 PM
Try to download it again, at 90% of upload my connection broke so you must have downloaded that file before I got to upload it again. It should be ok now
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on July 07, 2006, 10:19:44 AM
Bancika: you've got PM.

One thing I forgot to mention before is the extraordinary idea of being able to handle PCB, Perf and VERO with the same program, and switch from one to another with the click of your mouse. This is one of the greatest strengths of this SW.

Cheers.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on July 07, 2006, 06:59:17 PM
Right click doesn't seem to work with the latest version...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 07, 2006, 07:38:08 PM
I just tried it and it was ok. Anyone else?  ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on July 07, 2006, 09:17:25 PM
Heu... not to be negative, but it's one of the reasons why I stopped using it a while ago. And at that time, it seemed like I was the only one having this kind of problems.

I downloaded the latest version, just to answer your question. Right-click still doesn't work on my PC.

Sorry.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: comfortably_numb on July 07, 2006, 09:37:06 PM
I got your program a few weeks ago and used it to create a layout in only about 20 minutes that took about 2 hours to put together with paint using cut and paste.  Thanks a million for all of your hard work.

One question - Have you considered adding a schematic mode to your program?  It would be incredible if it could read the Vero layout and translate directly, though I know that may be asking quite a lot.  I would be happy if it was just something similar to ExpressSCH so that I could use only one program for everything (and yours is sooo user friendly).

Again, thanks for the hard work.

CJD

P.S.  Sorry if that has been addressed before...it's a long thread which I haven't read much of.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: lenwood on July 07, 2006, 09:49:08 PM
On the right click problem, if a collapse and expanded part in the explorer and then right click any component i get this:

Access violation at address 004FFB86 in module 'DIYlayout.exe'. Read address 00000000.


other than that great program!

thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: stumper1 on July 07, 2006, 11:23:40 PM
On the right click problem, if a collapse and expanded part in the explorer and then right click any component i get this:

Access violation at address 004FFB86 in module 'DIYlayout.exe'. Read address 00000000.


other than that great program!

thanks.

Me too :icon_cry:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 08, 2006, 04:49:48 AM
Yeah, STM told me about that bug yesterday. It'll be fixed.

comfortably_numb, I know it would be nice to have it, but it requires lots of work. And time is not something I have these days. I don't have motivation to do something like that because there are (free) programs that do the job pretty well (TyneCAD). It would require starting from scratch because not a single line of code (out of >4000) can be used for that.
As for right click...I don't know what could be the problem. Do you get some kind of error or just nothing hapens? Does right click work in Explorer? What's your screen color depth?
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on July 08, 2006, 07:53:46 AM
Updated today, right click works for awhile then I get the same message that lenwood posted. Running 1024 X 768 @ 32 bit color. It' funny sometimes it won't work after placing just 1 part, the next time it may work for 20 parts?
I tried placing all parts to see if it was just one of them but there does not seem to be any logical pattern.
 
On my laptop I updated 7/6 that version is working fine. Same res. and color settings.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 08, 2006, 08:22:07 AM
Don't worry about that access violation bug, it will be fixed. I hope that's the only reason right click doesn't work. Before I post update, keep category expanded when you want to right click. That should do the trick.
Man, can't wait till I finish with exams. Only 4 days (and 2 exams) left till summer break (which won't last long  :icon_sad:). Hope I'll catch some time to make pots and maybe jacks then.

Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on July 08, 2006, 10:31:59 AM
Right click does work if you keep the explorer list expanded.

One other bug I noticed today, when placing SIL IC it tells me "IC you are trying to create is not a standard size, continue?" no matter what size I try. It will not show the IC in the parts list either.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 08, 2006, 11:16:16 AM
I checked SIL "thing" and I noticed there's a problem with size detection on vertical ICs only. But even then it just warned me and after clicking "Yes" it created component and placed it in explorer. Check if SIL IC category is expanded at all...
Tnx for report,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on July 08, 2006, 07:18:54 PM
It shows it in the explorer menu but does not put it in the parts list at the bottom. Vertical and horizontal mounting give me the same error.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 08, 2006, 07:23:03 PM
Ahh, I see. It'll be fixed...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: cakeworks on July 11, 2006, 06:08:08 AM
hey mateys, could someone please supply the link to the latest version? I can't seem to find it... :icon_confused:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 11, 2006, 06:43:14 AM
Here it is, mate http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/layouts/diy_layout.exe)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on July 11, 2006, 12:23:43 PM
Just downloaded the program today with no problems. I looked at it quickly and it's great. Monkey simple and idiot (ie. "me") proof. One question...is there a way/what about adding something that would do the traces for etching? If it's already does, then I just haven't found it yet but it would be nice to build a layout, hit a button and have the trace ready to etch.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on July 11, 2006, 12:32:23 PM
In the upper left column you'll see an icon for "print PNP".
That should do it for ya.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on July 11, 2006, 12:51:26 PM
In the upper left column you'll see an icon for "print PNP".
That should do it for ya.


Thanks! That's what I get for not trying it thoroughly before asking questions.  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on July 11, 2006, 01:53:26 PM
I get the following error if I try to delete a component from a PCB layout -

Access violation at address 004FFBB6 in module 'DIYLayout.exe'. Read of address 00000000.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on July 11, 2006, 02:26:11 PM
I've had this happen.
First, SAVE your project.
Shutdown the program and restart the program.
It should be fine after this.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on July 11, 2006, 03:05:53 PM
I haven't had a chance to download your software yet but will soon.  What I would really like to get my hands on would be a program that would allow you to actually simulate the circuit... i.e. plug a sine/square wave of your choice (or even a .wav?) into the input and hear what comes out the other end.  That would be a seriously badass tool for experimenting with new sounds.  Know of anything like that?  Have you considered incorporating that into your software?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on July 11, 2006, 03:55:18 PM
You can get free copies of Multisim in some places.

You could start with an evaluation copy for now

http://www.ni.com/academic/companion_products_ewb.htm

I use a student version of Multisim 7

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 11, 2006, 05:11:06 PM
I haven't had a chance to download your software yet but will soon.  What I would really like to get my hands on would be a program that would allow you to actually simulate the circuit... i.e. plug a sine/square wave of your choice (or even a .wav?) into the input and hear what comes out the other end.  That would be a seriously badass tool for experimenting with new sounds.  Know of anything like that?  Have you considered incorporating that into your software?

that "single" feature takes team of people to be done properly and is out of reach for small DIY piece of software. I know it would be cool, but I don't have time nor knowledge to do it.
About bug, it'll be fixed, don't worry. Just expand category before right click. For instance, if you need to click on trace and trace category in explorer is collapse go and expand it. I know it's a PITA, but it'll be fixed
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on July 11, 2006, 05:26:00 PM
Well that's too bad because you could be rich
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 11, 2006, 06:11:33 PM
How could I get rich with free software. I was considering that idea, but I would do something like that when I graduate. And I'd need some expirienced audio electronic guy and someone who knows DSP..so at least three man team.
Anyway, I'm uploading new version. That bug should be fixed. Also check "Reveal mode"...it helps see board when it's covered with components. Press SPACE to activate it and once more to deactivate it. Also, when you select component category (like resistors) in explorer and press some transformation button (rotate, move) all resistors will transform. Handy, isn't it :)
Cheers.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: cakeworks on July 11, 2006, 07:07:54 PM
Hey, I have a suggestion... if it doesnt already exist...

There is a large space below the pcb image... perhaps a box included in the main form could fill it. It would have the option to put image files in it.
basically so that one may view computerised schematics as they are working on the pcb version.

do you follow?.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on July 11, 2006, 08:11:02 PM
You can do the same just by loading a schematic in another program and run it at the same time than the Layout Creator.

Run them in 2 smaller windows so that you see both on your screen.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: cakeworks on July 11, 2006, 11:10:51 PM
You can do the same just by loading a schematic in another program and run it at the same time than the Layout Creator.

Run them in 2 smaller windows so that you see both on your screen.

Gilles

I realise that but this would be much more convenient and less fiddly/
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on July 11, 2006, 11:50:10 PM
Bancika-

Just downloaded new version - works perfect so far!!!

I still can't "print PnP" but I know that's my computers problem - it works just fine on my wife's >:(

Thanks again for all the hard work!!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: cakeworks on July 12, 2006, 02:30:06 AM
I have found a bug i think.

when i render an image, the "processing please wait" box does not go away, even long after the image is rendered.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 12, 2006, 03:42:25 AM
It stays forever?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: cakeworks on July 12, 2006, 08:06:20 AM
yep. I just went to the movies and came back and its still there. (it does go away when i reboot the program though)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on July 12, 2006, 10:45:17 AM
Same experience here...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on July 12, 2006, 06:15:34 PM
Love all the new changes Bancika :icon_biggrin: Render works ok for me.
WOW, Andrew has been a very busy fellow.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 12, 2006, 09:57:17 PM
Hmm..I'll take a look on it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on July 18, 2006, 10:03:03 AM
This program is amazing!!

the only thing it needs is some way of minimising the pcb sizes for optimum layout, but thats just being lazy i guess.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: KerryF on July 18, 2006, 08:50:43 PM
Great problem, but theres one problem I am having.  When I make a big layout, it wont let me scroll down to see more than whats on the page.  Is this just me, is there a way to do it, can you make the board smaller, but the same number of holes?  How can I do this please?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: darron on July 18, 2006, 08:57:26 PM
Any chance that you might compile your software for the new Intel Macs? :D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 19, 2006, 04:14:56 AM
call1800ksmyazz, scrolling is not supported yet...I'll try to add it.
darron, it doesn't dewpend on me. Delphi compiler exists only for Win platforms. Your better chance is win emulator. Since both platforms use intel now it's just a matter of time...
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: darron on July 19, 2006, 08:04:11 AM
darron, it doesn't dewpend on me. Delphi compiler exists only for Win platforms. Your better chance is win emulator. Since both platforms use intel now it's just a matter of time...
Cheers

you can get bootcamp from apple that actually lets you run windowx xp sp2 natively. no emulators. i guess i'll install it and give your software a shot! :D

thanks for your response.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 19, 2006, 08:32:59 AM
yeah, that should do the trick. using same processors guaranties compatibility
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: coreybox on July 19, 2006, 06:06:07 PM
well i feel pretty dumb for asking, but i can't figure some stuff out.

I can't figure out how to use the cut track, solder pads, and trace functions.  They are listed in the explorer, but i can't select to use them from there.  they aren't in the toolbox with the rest of the stuff. 

Also, is there a way to un-select components.  Like, if i click on text is says 'active:text' in the bottom.  If i decide not to add text then, how do i get it to where i can click stuff without having to add text.

thanks
corey
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: coreybox on July 19, 2006, 06:16:20 PM
nevermind, when i go into PCb mode they all come up!

thanks
corey
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: coreybox on July 19, 2006, 07:04:28 PM
Does print PnP print the object mirrored?  It isn't working for me, but i think it is my computer.....

Reason asking is render to PnP does not mirror it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on July 19, 2006, 07:41:26 PM
When using this program, you don't need to mirror the PCB print out.
Think about it, you are seeing the traces from above.
when you print onto the PNP, print the image as you see it 'cause after you iron it on,
it will be oriented correctly.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 19, 2006, 08:24:29 PM
Yep, orientation is fine.
Printing routine gives me headache. It's very simple and yet doesn't work on some computers.
Unselect tool isn't quite necessary, if you don't want to add text then you must want to add something else, right?
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: coreybox on July 19, 2006, 08:27:36 PM
Yeah, i guess.... i just naturally tend to try and click on components to select them instead of going over to the explorer, then i end up getting a text bubble. Works great though.

One more problem though, since the printing thing doesn't work i hit 'render PnP' and bring it over to a different computer to print from.  The layout is 13x19 holes but the gif file is like 4.something by 5.something inches big.  Am i doing something wrong?

thanks guys
corey
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 20, 2006, 04:44:53 AM
yeah, that's one more issue. If you print it with photoshop it will be ok. With othe programs it needs to be resized. It will be changed. I don't have my computer here so can't work on it these days  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Samy on July 26, 2006, 07:42:37 PM
Hello Bancika, what do you think about a silkscreen print option ? In my oppinion, that would be cool .
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 27, 2006, 04:16:08 PM
what would it do, I don't know what silkscreening means :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on July 27, 2006, 10:34:27 PM
Basically it would be a rendered image showing nothing but the components.
Look at this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PCB_Spectrum.jpg
The part #'s C1, R1, or their values are printed on the top of the board. Lots of commercial boards are made that way. Silkscreening is actually the printing method.




Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 28, 2006, 07:15:19 AM
nice idea. it should be black&white, right?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Samy on July 28, 2006, 07:39:03 PM
In my oppinion, black.
We can print the components on the top of the pcbīs with regular paper printed in a laser printer ... Cheap and nice !  ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 28, 2006, 08:19:48 PM
will put it on to-do list, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on July 31, 2006, 03:29:50 PM
I suggestion if I may? How about the option of square solder pads for the positive side of electrolytics, 9v "In" pad, etc. Just a thought.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 04, 2006, 12:08:12 PM
I suggestion if I may? How about the option of square solder pads for the positive side of electrolytics, 9v "In" pad, etc. Just a thought.

nice idea, will do it...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dacaumodo on August 04, 2006, 01:31:04 PM
I just downloaded your soft yesterday. It looks fantastic. Thanks for sharing it.
Guillaume.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Samy on August 05, 2006, 11:39:31 AM
I was redrawing the Thunderchief pcb and found that thereīs no vertical trimmers ! Can you add that ?
Changing the default values for traces and pads will be great ! Itīs a PITA changing that one by one ...

Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Basile on August 06, 2006, 07:05:16 PM
Well you app is very useful, but I will be at paradise, if only there were a Linux version of the software...

If only Delphi and Kyrix tools could make better "exchange" than now.....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 08, 2006, 07:10:44 AM
in order to make app compatible with Kylix it must be CLX and not VCL. Mine is VCL so I can't compile it with linux. There are many win emulators available, give them a try.
Samy, I'll put more trimmer types and also default sizes.
dacaumodo, tnx!
When I get back from vacation I'll update it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on August 08, 2006, 12:52:46 PM
great piece of software bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on August 09, 2006, 07:02:39 AM
can you also add the power regulator component ?

lm7808 type of thing? That would be great.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on August 10, 2006, 04:51:20 AM
may I also request a transformer component? (42TN022) for octave pedals.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 11, 2006, 12:10:15 PM
hilbi, use transistor component for regulators...
as for transformers, I was planning to put it but didn't have time. It will be added eventually
Tnx
Title: Bug (feature) sighting?
Post by: subversivepinko on August 11, 2006, 07:57:09 PM
First off, great work Banicka, and thanks so much for keeping it free.

I noticed one issue. I have dual monitors, so my screen resolution is technically 2560x1028. Most of the dialog boxes show up in the center of your screen, which in my case means split between two monitors, while I have the application running on the left screen. This is extremely annoying. What about making the dialogs pop up centered over the app window, instead of dead center of your entire desktop?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 12, 2006, 04:04:31 AM
No problem, will do it  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 12, 2006, 05:02:26 PM
Must say this is the easiest software I have ever used. Simple, but effective.

Maybe an option for different hole spacing? (sorry if already mentioned, but I cant read 25 pages!)

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Herr Masel on August 12, 2006, 06:19:45 PM
Hey, I'm currently working on a pcb layout for the bsiab, it's my first one but it's going well. Great software, and thanks alot banicka for writing  and sharing it!!!

One probelm I have is that I can't seem to select a component by right clicking on it, and it get's difficult when I want to edit a single trace or pad and have to search for it in the explorer side-bar. Has anyone else had this bug? I downloaded the software today so I think I have the up to date version.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 12, 2006, 06:51:27 PM
Hi guys,
as for hole spacing, I don't think it will be available any time soon. The reason is simple, unique engine is used to save/draw/edit all layouts, no matter which type of layout you use. Changing hole spacing for PCB (I think you're refering to that) would break that concept.
Herr Masel, I'm not sure but maybe it has to do with color depth on your monitor. Make sure it's 32bit
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Herr Masel on August 12, 2006, 07:23:12 PM
Thanks, I am using the right resolution and colour depth but the probelm is still there... Strange, I just noticed now that the "rotate" and "select all" buttons on the explorer window appear as the pencil holding hand (bottom right corner), same as the arrows that move the component around.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Gilles C on August 12, 2006, 10:50:43 PM
...One probelm I have is that I can't seem to select a component by right clicking on it, and it get's difficult when I want to edit a single trace or pad and have to search for it in the explorer side-bar. Has anyone else had this bug? I downloaded the software today so I think I have the up to date version.

We are a few having the same problem. Right-click never worked for me, and I am really using 32 bits etc.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Herr Masel on August 13, 2006, 01:23:33 AM

We are a few having the same problem. Right-click never worked for me, and I am really using 32 bits etc.

Gilles

I don't know much about programming, but it looks like the program is built on html, right? If so, could it make a difference that my default explorer is firefox? I love firefox, but it sure has some bugs... What's your default browser Gilles?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on August 13, 2006, 01:53:03 AM
It's based on Delphi if I remember well, so your default browser shouldn't be the cause.

I am using Avant which is IE based. I tried Firefox before, can't say I had problems with it, but just had problems getting used to a few menu items.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ivory Knight on August 13, 2006, 02:21:38 AM
hi,
i love the prog, but haw can i do the thick black lines between each part?
Until now, i always used these blue jumpers!

regards,
markus
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 13, 2006, 03:01:01 AM
As for wrong rotate and select icons you probably don't have font used there. Next build will install font if needed.
It has no dependance on browser so it's not the problem.
As for black lines, some guys switch to PCB mode to enable traces, put them on board and switch back to old mode.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 15, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
Hello, I'm finally back. Updated layout gallery (thanks to everyone who contributed) and did some changes:
- program remembers last used pad size and applies it to new pads
- square pads for negative poles of components and for first pins of IC's, it could be helpful when placing ICs
few more changes and I'll upload it
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Basile on August 15, 2006, 05:24:13 PM
Hi bancika...

      I was just using your software and I still have regrets not to be able to use it on my GNU/Linux Debian.... I have a poor experience on DELPHI (Pascal) programming, but an idea came to me and I would like to known if is possible to convert your code into java mixture.... this will have the consequence that anybody will be able to use it even if the OS is Linux or MacOS or Windows.... Perhaps you will find my proposal a bit useless, or perhaps you hate Java but I just want to know if it's possible.... 

One more time, thank you for all your work!

regards,

Basile
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: theman on August 15, 2006, 07:37:44 PM
Hello, I'm finally back. Updated layout gallery (thanks to everyone who contributed) and did some changes:
- program remembers last used pad size and applies it to new pads
- square pads for negative poles of components and for first pins of IC's, it could be helpful when placing ICs
few more changes and I'll upload it
Cheers

I think the standard is square solder pads for "+" terminals ....

I'd also love to see the standard 100K horizontal trimmers you see on JFET circuits. These occupy some horizontal real estate, but different pinout and body shape than what is offered on the program currently.

Anyways, this program is tremendous ... great work!

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on August 15, 2006, 08:57:31 PM
Square pad is indeed the standard for the positive side of polarized parts.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 16, 2006, 04:00:42 AM
Tnx, will change it...anyway it's done :)
About converting to any other language, it's pretty impossible. Some elements (explorer) are windows native components, some (menu pane) are 3rd party components available only for delphi. Besides, there are >3500 lines of code. Even I have problem to mess around it :)
You should really try with windows emulators
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 16, 2006, 09:52:03 AM
Me again,
one small poll: do you think I should sort all layouts in gallery using date or group them in categories like now? There are more than 100 of them, it's getting large  :icon_razz:
I fixed problem with dialogs on multi-monitor computers (I hope).
Square pads are now on positive side.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Basile on August 16, 2006, 11:43:40 AM
I'm gonna to try some Wine and other stuff... quite difficult to set, btw....Concerning your grouping order... maybe a mix band between group and date will be the best.... I mean, first group them by category (fuzz, distortion, etc ) and then by a second order which is the date ... That's for me the best things to do!

regards,

Basile the poor little Debian user.....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Roobin on August 16, 2006, 12:00:16 PM
Hi guys,
as for hole spacing, I don't think it will be available any time soon. The reason is simple, unique engine is used to save/draw/edit all layouts, no matter which type of layout you use. Changing hole spacing for PCB (I think you're refering to that) would break that concept.

Actually, I realised that the standard spacing for things like trimmers is 2.54mm - 0.1". So no need to change. KISS I say.

Also guys, I'm currently working on a PCB version of RG's Easyvibe layout. Is using lots of jumpers (7 or more) a sign of bad layout or just a difficult task?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 16, 2006, 12:17:05 PM
The hole spacing has worked perfectly for me as well. Resistors, diodes, and capacitors of all kinds sit very nicely on the boards I've etched. If I forgot to mention it before, I really appreciate Bancika taking the time to do this and for free nonetheless.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 16, 2006, 12:31:08 PM
About grouping - maybe a page for each type - e.g. Amps, Boosters, Overdrives.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 16, 2006, 12:52:46 PM
About grouping - maybe a page for each type - e.g. Amps, Boosters, Overdrives.

I agree.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 05:23:27 AM
I released new version. List of updates is available in update dialog
What do you think?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 17, 2006, 08:23:07 AM
Do we have to uninstall the older version first?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 09:06:56 AM
nope
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on August 17, 2006, 01:39:36 PM
wheres the link to the newest version?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 03:15:52 PM
on my site, under layouts page. click on banner below
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 17, 2006, 03:18:06 PM
Got the square pads working on the Electrolytes.

Sorry another q: Currently, working on the EZvibe, its really slow, even with nothing else running. Common problem (its a 40*20 board)?

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 17, 2006, 03:44:22 PM
Got the square pads working on the Electrolytes.

Sorry another q: Currently, working on the EZvibe, its really slow, even with nothing else running. Common problem (its a 40*20 board)?



I started working on an Easy Vibe layout last night, but gave up when a headache set it. :icon_lol: Keep us posted if you create one.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 17, 2006, 03:46:55 PM
I have more of an anal-retentive curiousity than a question. Is there a way to get the components to list in order underneath the actual layout (ex. R1, R2, R3, etc.)? They seem to list in no particular order. Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 04:03:32 PM
yeah, it can get slow with many components. Program is hand-draing everything on screen and transparency takes lots of CPU.
skiraly017, I don't understand. Sort it where? They are sorted in explorer and components list below board.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 17, 2006, 04:24:29 PM
Nevermind...wasn't thinking straight.  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on August 17, 2006, 04:57:36 PM
In the component list, they are in the order they were added. If you add R5 and then R1, the order will be R5-R1 etc...

I suppose that's what you noticed skiraly017

gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 17, 2006, 05:04:18 PM
In the component list, they are in the order they were added. If you add R5 and then R1, the order will be R5-R1 etc...

I suppose that's what you noticed skiraly017

gilles

Sort of. I realized I could just rename them as well. See what happens when you stay up late playing with design software? You're all sorts of fuzzy the next day.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 05:20:05 PM
you don't wanna know what happens when you stay all night MAKING design software  :icon_lol:
I'll fix sort thing...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 17, 2006, 05:22:46 PM
Im a perfectionist - so if something gets changed, everything below it must be changed. Is there an option to turn the listing off?

Im just adding labels now. Sorry another another q: With words, how do you change font size, if at all possible. It's getting a bit cramped. Guys, with the EZvibe, do you want really neat holes for things all grouped together, or just dispersed a bit? I like them together, but if its easier, Ill just leave them seperated a bit.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 06:20:58 PM
Hi,
at the moment none of features you mentioned are not supported...I'll think about them
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Branimir on August 17, 2006, 06:27:12 PM
Bancika, even I started to use your program! Good stuff, too bad there's no component rotating!

10 thumbs up! :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 17, 2006, 06:48:52 PM
actually, there is component rotating. It's explained in the manual...
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Branimir on August 17, 2006, 06:50:59 PM
ups!!! :) I'll better read the manual! hehe
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 18, 2006, 09:20:26 AM
Hey guys/gals

Bancika, using the newest version of your software, i get the square pads for diodes, ICs and electros, when i render an image they appear, but not when I render a Pnp.

Finally finished the Easyvibe layout! Just need to get myself a gallery. There are 2 parts - the .diy file, and accompanying image file.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 10:10:40 AM
Ah yeah, I forgot to make changes to PnP render engine. Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on August 18, 2006, 12:46:10 PM
this software is actually amazing, but i thought i might make a request i made earlier.

Is there anyway to minimize the track lengths by utilising the computer program, surely all that needs to be done is fix the location of relative pins and let the computer re-arrange the tracks and component to optimum locations for minimum track lengths?

the potential for this program is incredible, if all the projects here were moved over to the file format then mods could easily be implemented in pcb layouts. It'd be a revolution in diy stompboxes!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 01:07:42 PM
I know it would be nice, but also not so easy to implement. Not easy at all...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on August 18, 2006, 01:18:49 PM
i'm sure someone can manage it!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 01:25:27 PM
Of course someone can...but not me :) I hardly understand the problem  :icon_idea:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 18, 2006, 01:32:23 PM
Another last night last night...this software is like a drug and I swear I can quit anytime I want to.  :icon_rolleyes:

Killer program Bancika, just waiting for my next paycheck so I can donate to the cause.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 01:54:27 PM
Tnx man,
feel free to submit layouts to growing gallery. We have more than a hundred of them!!
I'm glad someone actually uses my stuff :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on August 18, 2006, 02:51:33 PM
I have a question about the layout gallery. If I right click on an individual file and choose "Save As", the file saves as a text (.txt) file not a .diy file. Any idea why? Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 03:05:43 PM
In Firefox it works, IE also. Which browser are you using?
Anyway, just jange ext back to .diy and it'll work. DIY files are XML which is plain text.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: skiraly017 on August 18, 2006, 03:21:00 PM
In Firefox it works, IE also. Which browser are you using?
Anyway, just jange ext back to .diy and it'll work. DIY files are XML which is plain text.
Cheers

Cool thanks. Using IE but now that I know the fix it's not an issue.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on August 18, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Of course someone can...but not me :) I hardly understand the problem  :icon_idea:

you going to release the code so someone can give it a go? ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2006, 06:03:07 PM
Maybe better idea is that anybody who could do it can join the project.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on August 19, 2006, 10:49:13 AM
Hey people,

Bancika, the EZvibe should have been sent to you. I clicked the "Submit..." button.

Ive uploaded a gif file of it in my layout area - it has a little jumper note, as well as labels. Enjoy. If anyone checks it, or uses it PM me, for any ammendments or the like.

Thanks again Bancika.

BTw whats the rules on posting schematics, etc in the layouts? Can I post 'em if I put a web page address on it? Or is that just a no-no altogether?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 19, 2006, 12:38:28 PM
Thanks for layout, looks great!!
As for posting external files, go ahead. Just put URL

Btw, I'm working on transformer components...

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on August 19, 2006, 12:53:14 PM
Well done bancika!
This software was tops many updates ago and just keeps getting better!
I use it alot and am very pleased. Thank you for the hard work that has made MY DIY life easier!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 20, 2006, 06:31:23 PM
I finished transformers, here's a pic. What do you think about look, colors, etc?
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/xformer.gif)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: lovekraft0 on August 21, 2006, 12:40:53 AM
I imagine you've already considered this, but you'll need to make provisions for center taps on some transformers.

Great piece of kit, BTW - it takes a phenomenal individual to do this quality of work and invest this kind of effort in free software, many thanks!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 21, 2006, 04:32:35 AM
yeah, it occured to me. I'd avoid putting two separate components for xformer with and without CT. I'll just put CT everywhere, so it can be ignored when not needed
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mydementia on August 30, 2006, 09:53:22 AM
For everyone posting layouts thru the DIY Layout Creator tool - please make a note indicating whether the layout has been verified (built) or not...maybe a 'check box' on the hosting site?
I recently made the BMP Triangle PCB, populated it, and nothing happened.  Thanks to DanN (my new hero) I rearranged the parts/flow around Q2 and changed out R22 (apparently it's supposed to be 100k - not 100R) and now it works great.

This layout tool is fantastic - now we need to ensure that there's some sort of quality control... It would also be nice if the layout maker put in a url for the schematic used...
Just my 2-cents.
Mike
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 30, 2006, 10:05:10 AM
Well, I agree. But it's much up to me. Layout makers should put (un)verified labels inside layout. Whenever layout is veryfied just send new file and I'l be happy to update it.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: KerryF on September 01, 2006, 10:42:36 PM
Have you uploaded the new version with the transformers yet?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on September 02, 2006, 09:17:53 AM
Also, just thinking about space online on your site, Bancika, instead of having a PCB and perfboard layouts, instead maybe one or the onther, seeing as they are virtually the same.

I expect you're going back to uni soon - good luck.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 02, 2006, 12:05:09 PM
Hi Guys,
I didn't uplaod new version. I was waiting to add few more options but some commercial project got in a way (hey, I've got to make a living somehow :D) I'll upload it in a few days.
As for layouts,it's not a problem, since they weight usually less than 10K and I have 100MB hosting space, so it's not big deal :)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JimRayden on September 03, 2006, 04:26:21 PM
Doing a PCB layout for my power supply made me wonder if it'd be possible to implement el.cap radius changing possibility. I'm using some big caps there but the symbol is really small. It's pretty frustrating measuring the distance on the caps to see if the BIG ones would fit on that PCB next to each other.

Other than that, the prog's working great!

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 03, 2006, 05:16:42 PM
it's been talked about before. It is nice idea but it would require breaking concept that is unique for all components. I'd need to add new field only for electrolytes. Maybe I could put size field with few preset options (like small, medium, large) for caps, resistors and electros. I just can't promise when will this hapen, the reason is in previous post :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on September 03, 2006, 06:04:42 PM
In regards to the sizing and spacing of parts, the coolest thing about bancika's software is that I can print the PnP on a regular sheet of paper, cut it to size and then stick it to some adhesive foam that I have (which can be found at just about any craft store for $1.00 a package). I then take a pin or thumbtack, open the pad holes and insert the components. This allows me to place the components on the proposed board a get a "real feel" for how things will lay out prior to committing any idea to etching.

Bancika, is there a timeframe or ETA for the off-board components feature? I don't want to sound impatient, I'm just curious. This is a killer application and I'm very grateful that you've taken the time to develop it. Thanks again.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 03, 2006, 06:09:40 PM
I'm glad it helps man, really am  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: blues123 on September 03, 2006, 06:24:09 PM
Just wanted to add my thanks.
I've never used any software for layouts before as I've always found them hard work. Thats not the case with yours. It's really user friendly and inspirationally.
If you haven't tried it already, what are you waiting for?

WELL DONE........
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: BigT on September 06, 2006, 01:04:34 AM
Bancika, I tried right clicking on your layouts but the "Save Target As..." is grayed out.  What am I doing wrong?

BigT
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 06, 2006, 06:04:05 AM
you need to left click...
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on September 08, 2006, 07:35:31 AM
I cannot find the download location of the diy layout software anymore on your site?

http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 08, 2006, 08:35:18 AM
Yeah, I did little rearanging. Click on software button. I have messed up links (again), but now it's ok.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on September 11, 2006, 06:18:22 AM
ah thanks, it is back again.

One thing I miss in your great program is the function to scroll downwards. Especially with bigger builts, large lists of components appear and you cannot scroll down to them to quick check their values.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 11, 2006, 06:27:36 PM
I can't promise that, but I will try asap  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 12, 2006, 06:45:02 PM
I'm uploading new version. Few smaller fixes/improvements and two brand new components: transformers and switches. Check it out and tell me what you think.
Cheers

Link below
|
V
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: KerryF on September 12, 2006, 08:33:04 PM
Wow thanks!  Just got the new version and great job!  The switches and transformers were much needed!

The only thing is, the transformer's middle pin on the 3-pin side is in between two rows on veroboard...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: didier on September 13, 2006, 05:08:32 AM
I love this program!

but since i encounter some difficulties i thought i'd suggest a few things:

- i'd really like a possibility to select multiple parts by selecting them visually with my mouse.
- is it possible to set a track/hole width before i draw them? if not i'd very much like that.
- there were more but i can't think of them right now...

cheers, keep it up :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 05:41:03 AM
I'll add multi select, working with program for some time showed me necessity of changing something there :)
IIRC, last used width is default for next track (the same is for hole)
Thanks for suggestions,
Bancika
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 13, 2006, 07:02:23 AM
The pad size stays the same but, not the trace.
As it is now, the trace size needs to be manually changed for each trace because the program keep the default of 5.
Great job though bancika.....I love it!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 07:57:00 AM
will fix that too. tnx  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 13, 2006, 08:56:23 AM
I can confirm the abnormal trace width behaviour.

Also, the switch component should allow adding 1x3 and 3x1 switches, as this is the case for SPDT switches.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 08:59:55 AM
oh yeah, I forgot about SP switches :D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MikeH on September 13, 2006, 12:28:57 PM
I guess this has been around a little while, but I just found out about it yesterday.  I downloaded it, and I must say, way to go!  No more graph paper and pencil for me!  Unfortunately I can only use it at work, because at home I am a *gulp*... Mac user.  Oh well, lets hope I don't get fired for wasting all of my time making DIY layouts.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 04:53:13 PM
I've changed trace width behavior, now it remembers last used width.
As for Mac, you might wan't to try some Win emulators. Maybe it'll work, it's worth a shot.
Many users have problems with uploading files to gallery, caused by firewall blocking internet connection. I'll have to figure out way to submit files without firewall messing round. Most of users just give up on submitting. We all want larger layout gallery, right? :)
Cheers and tnx to moderator for making this thread sticky  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: didier on September 13, 2006, 06:27:04 PM
i want a MASSIVE database of diy projects so you never have to draw up anything anymore and programs like these are useless

 ;D :D ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 06:44:16 PM
till then, I changed upload method. Now it's done via web browser which is 100% firewall safe.
Go to http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts (http://storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts) to check it out. Next version of software will take you there when you try to submit file.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 07:24:34 PM
Sorry for double posting but I think it's worth it. I grabbed some time to do few more changes.
I'm uploading even newer version  :icon_wink:

I won't be able to work on it for few days because of second project...meanwhile, upload your layouts :)
Best regards,
Bancika
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 13, 2006, 07:46:57 PM
Bancika, I love it when I click on the check for update button and see that there is indeed something new :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
You keep making this better and better!

Do you care if I put some hobby circuits on there? I've got a solar garden light that needs repair and did a PCB layout for it. (Not tested yet)

I also have a little flashing light thingy I did on perf awhile back. It makes good flashing eyes for a Halloween pumpkin, skull, ghost, etc. I could easily do a layout for it as well.

Keep up the great work!!!!!

Thanks,
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 13, 2006, 07:51:07 PM
Sure, anything that can be draw with my software can also be submitted, providing it actually does something. You're welcome to submit.
I tried to make update tool the best possible. Not only does it list feature in last version but it lists all changes between installed and newest version, in case you skipped few updates. Glad it works ok.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on September 14, 2006, 04:00:19 AM
may i suggest to build in a select all feature? so you can select all components at once and move them.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 14, 2006, 05:05:48 AM
already exists, press ctrl + A while explorer is in focus or press button above right arrow.
It's all written in tutorials... :icon_mad:  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hilbi on September 14, 2006, 05:07:42 AM
ok great bancika
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 20, 2006, 12:27:14 PM
A funny thing I noticed with the transformer component is that when in PCB it doesn't add automatically the pads.  This is inconvenient, since if I want to move the component around manually placed pads will not follow unless all are selected by beforehand.

An issue that might appear when the center tap of the transformer doesn't fall exactly into the grid.  In this case I'd suggest not placing the center tap pad. In case the center tap is required then you should select an odd number of rows/columns for the secondary of the transformer.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: DryRoasted on September 20, 2006, 02:47:49 PM
Just an idea which would really help me, I can't remember if its been mentioned already, but when I print PnP it only prints 1 copy, it would be really useful if you could specify the number of PnP to print.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 20, 2006, 03:14:16 PM
STM,
I forgot to make it auto-create pads for transformer, will do it. As for CT on odd sized transformers, I noticed it and was planning to fix it but I just forgot...to many projects working on  :icon_redface:
DryRoasted,
will think about it.
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: DryRoasted on September 20, 2006, 04:43:42 PM
cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 20, 2006, 05:15:42 PM
I grabbed some time (making Dr Boogey) to fix those two errors STM noticed... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 21, 2006, 02:27:14 PM
Great!

It would be nice if sometime you could add the trimpot with all pins in a row seen here (to the left), as this would complete all possible trimpot patterns:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=583f81c54ba9aff959b82c713541fec1&topic=44838.msg345003#msg345003 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=583f81c54ba9aff959b82c713541fec1&topic=44838.msg345003#msg345003)

Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 21, 2006, 04:58:12 PM
I use those in line trimers to. Got a sweet deal on some 10K, 25K, 50K, 100K multi turn trim pots.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: gaussmarkov on September 21, 2006, 07:06:05 PM
here's a suggestion for the future:  how about a breadboard layout template?

thanks for a great contribution to diy, gm
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: KerryF on September 21, 2006, 07:08:17 PM
^-Yea I have wanted that.  You can basically just do that with veroboard and cut traces, and perfboard.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 22, 2006, 04:09:22 AM
allrighty, inline trimmers are next on program :)
About breadboard I'm not sure, I've never seen one nor I know how it works :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: d95err on September 22, 2006, 05:00:39 AM
My Sophos Antivirus program reports the DIY Layout Creator (v1.9) as a possible Malware program and puts it in quarantine. The file did not contain a virus, but the heuristic methods of the virus scanner thought it looked like it does things that typically malware does. Looks like a false positive from Sophos. I submitted the exe and told them it's not a Malware program.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on September 22, 2006, 05:32:10 AM
First of all this program is awesome and extremely useful.
One suggestion I can offer is coloured pads for pcb, perf & stripboards to indicate locations for off board wiring (input, output, pots etc) and the description for each pad located with the component list.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 22, 2006, 09:32:08 AM
d95err, it's probably because it drags history.xml file from my web server to check if new version is availble and list new features. Other than that I couldn't find any reason for such behaviour. I'm using AVG Free and it doesn't report it.
pyrop, interesting idea. The thing is, I'd like to keep current concept (each component can have name, value and unit) which leaves only one field unused for pads (unit). I could put colors in dropdown list so user can pick. And you can always add text component with description. Of course, when PnP is printed everything remains black.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: d95err on September 23, 2006, 08:53:09 AM
d95err, it's probably because it drags history.xml file from my web server to check if new version is availble and list new features. Other than that I couldn't find any reason for such behaviour. I'm using AVG Free and it doesn't report it.

Advanced (expensive) antivirusprograms have better algorithms to detect suspicious behavior, so it's not strange that AVR Free doesn't detect it. My guess is other commercial antivirus products could react too. There was no problem until recently. I guess the antivirus added some new detection algorithms to the antivirus engine which caused it to react.

The antivirus software detects the exe file as a potential threat immediately when it tries to access the file (e.g. when installing), not when the program is running.  As it stands now, I can't use your software at all unless I turn off the antivirus (not wise...). Perhaps you could make the history feature optional (e.g with an option to check for updates only when triggered by the user).

The DIY Layout Creator is a great tool, so I would really like to be able to use it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 23, 2006, 09:48:24 AM
it is triggered by user, your AV probably scans EXE source code and find suspicios calls. Is it possible to add it to white list, many advanced AVs have that option
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 23, 2006, 02:16:35 PM
Hi ...
First , thanks for the great software.

i'm still having problems with the right mouse button.
it won't work at home.
I tried to install on my work computer and there is no problems there.
did any of you find a fix for this ??

Then a suggestion.
i've used the software for a couple of perfboards , and two times now ,
the size of a capacitor or electrolyte has fooled me. looking fine and dandy on the screen , but ,
on the real thing the capacitor/electrolyte did'nt fit and i had to let it "hoover" above the other components.
So , if it is possible to choose , maybe from 2 or 3 sizes , when using capacitors/electrolytes it would be killer.

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 23, 2006, 02:25:37 PM
First, thanks  :icon_wink:
I've been thinking and maybe it's not so big deal to make few different electrolyte sizes available.
And about right click I really have no idea. Does right click work in other apps?
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 23, 2006, 02:48:56 PM
Yes , right clicking works every where but on the layout area in DIY-LC.
even if i want to rename an item in DIY-LC it works (Click two times on an item , right click -> paste) no problems.
But i some times get an "Access violation" i DIY-LC when rightclicking.

I've been messing around delphi for a couple of years , just for the fun of it , and would like to see how you've done it ,
if you don't mind sharing the sourcecodes.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 23, 2006, 03:58:11 PM
the onboard component detection works pretty simple and not too optimized: I have visible bitmap (board that's displayed) and invisible 32bit bitmap in memory, each component has assigned color. On that invisible bitmap component outline is drawn with it's respective color. When user right clicks on visible board I check which color is on the same spot on invisible bitmap. Then I find component that's assigned to that color and open popup menu for that component. Simple and it should always work  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 23, 2006, 04:10:07 PM
I don't think the problem is in the detection of the component.
it seems more as if the handler for the mouseclick is not activated.
i think i've tried this once with the "onmouseclick" trying to tricker a "popup".
as i remember i had to change it to the "onmouseup" and do a "if button = MBRight" or something like that.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 23, 2006, 04:29:44 PM
I don't think it's a problem. See, I use color as handles (pointers) because they are basically the same format  (32bit number) as pointer is. So I use something like TComponent(Pointer(Bitmap.Pixels[x,y])) to access component that's under that mouse position, if any. So my guess is that somehow that hidden bitmap is screwed up (or reduced number of colors) so some handles become invalid
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 23, 2006, 05:14:22 PM
Ok , well maybe youre right.
its just odd , colors should be the same world wide ...
could you post the detection function/procedure ,
then i could give it a go on my computer , atleast i could trace it through the process ,
if youre interestet.

it's kind of annoying , not being able to use the right MB.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 23, 2006, 07:30:07 PM
Ok, as soon as I get back home I'll post detection procedure. I really haven't got a clue. When invisible bitmap is created I set color depth to 32bit manually so it should stay like that on every computer  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Gilles C on September 23, 2006, 09:45:46 PM
I don't think it's a problem. See, I use color as handles (pointers) because they are basically the same format  (32bit number) as pointer is. So I use something like TComponent(Pointer(Bitmap.Pixels[x,y])) to access component that's under that mouse position, if any. So my guess is that somehow that hidden bitmap is screwed up (or reduced number of colors) so some handles become invalid

Bancika, don't you remember I already submited that right-click was not working a while ago, as did a couple of other users. I don't know if it worked after that for them, but it never worked on my 2 PCs.

That was your answer back then:

For right click...it must work  ??? :icon_exclaim:
As for multi-select, I forgot to update something from single-select era. Only last selected component makes red wires although more than one component is selected. As I said before, when all items are selected those category tree nodes like [Resistors] stay unselected. Click on it and all other will becume unselected. I'll make Esc shortcut for unselect.
Component names turn light gray when Explorer is not in Focus, not when they are unselected.
Hope you get it now :)

And for Beer, if it works on some other PCs he tried, and not at home, there must be something that is not working with every computer since that time or even before.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 08:27:56 AM
Giles C --> I'm not sure i know what you meen ... sorry  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on September 24, 2006, 08:58:43 AM
Oh, sorry. You're right, I wasn't clear. It was too late when I wrote it I suppose... :icon_redface:

What I meant is that since it worked when you installed it at work, and that it didn't work when you installed it at work, it can't be your fault. You know how to install and use it.

And since right clicking works every where but on the layout area in DIY-LC, it's not the fault of your computer either. It is the same on my computer. Right-click works on the component list on the right, but not on the layout area.

So it has to be the in the software, not in the computer.

And it must be in a routine for the layout that is not used in the component list. And I also meant that this problem was there a long time ago, it is not something new.

But the fact that it works on most computers is strange. What could be different in the computers where the right-click is not working, only with this program, and only in the layout area???

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 09:05:53 AM
Ok , That makes more sense.
and i think youre right.
it must be in the software , but it's odd that i does'nt work on some computers ,
because colors should be the same worldwide.

i'll have a look at it as soon as i see the procedure/function.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 01:32:19 PM
Here's code for OnMouseDown event. MAsk is that invisible bitmap. All pixels that are not occupied by some component are colored black (integer value 0), and other pixels are colored with int value of pointer pointing to XML node containing that component (check .DIY file for XML structure).
Code: [Select]
  if Button = mbRight then
   begin
     if (Mask.Canvas.Pixels[X, Y] <> 0) and (XMLDoc.DocumentElement.ChildNodes.IndexOf(IXMLNode(Mask.Canvas.Pixels[X, Y])) >= 0) then
      begin
        for i := 0 to List.Items.Count - 1 do
         if (List.Items[i].Data <> nil) and (List.Items[i].Data = Pointer(Mask.Canvas.Pixels[X, Y])) then
         if List.Selected = List.Items[i] then
          begin
            ListNodeContextMenu(List, List.Selected, t, CompPopup);
            t := ClientToScreen(Point(X, Y));
            CompPopup.Popup(t.X, t.Y);
          end 
         else
          begin
            List.Items[i].Parent.Expand(False);
            List.Selected := List.Items[i];
            Refresh;
            Break;
          end;
      end;
     Exit;
   end;


and procedure I called here
Code: [Select]
procedure TMainForm.ListNodeContextMenu(aSender: TObject; aNode: TTreeNode;
  var aPos: TPoint; var aMenu: TPopupMenu);
begin
  {if aNode.Level = 0 then
    aMenu := nil
  else
    aMenu := CompPopup; }
  List.Selected := aNode; 

  ChangeValue.Enabled := (aNode.Level = 1) and (List.SelectionCount = 1) and (aNode.ImageIndex in [iResistor, iCapacitor, iElectrolyte, iDiode, iTransistor, iIC, iLineIC, iTrace, iPad, iTrimmer, iLed, iText, iTransformer, iSwitch]);
  Replace1.Enabled := (aNode.Level = 1) and (List.SelectionCount = 1);
  Rename1.Enabled := (aNode.Level = 1) and (List.SelectionCount = 1);
  Delete1.Enabled := True;
end;

hope it helps  :icon_wink:
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 01:37:29 PM
Sorry for double posting, but a thing occured to me now. Few releases ago I changed "clicking-selection-popup" concept a bit. One right click on board does NOT open popup menu but only selects component below. If component is already selected popup menu is displayed. It was necessary change to do because it helps multiselect (holding Ctrl and right clicking on components on board)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 01:59:14 PM
Ok , i think i found the problem.

on my computer it is the Antivirus program blocking the "XMLDocument" call as this is
(as far as i know) an internet based component , and therefor it is blocked by the antivirus.

Is there anybody who can verify this ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 02:35:15 PM
possible, it is grouped in Internet components...I don't have any advanced AV...which one are you using. We'l try to find user with similar system and track it down.
Thanks for help!

edit: it's impossible, after all. I use XMLDocument all time, when loading/saving files, adding components, drawing board...It's the only memory structure I use for storing layout and component information. Must be something else  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 02:40:18 PM
i'm using "Panda" antivirus.

i'll try to find out if there is a possibillity to turn this of in the antivir prog.

i'll let you know.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 02:55:48 PM
Ok , THis program has an "Protection against unknown virus" ,
So i guess it's the calling of the XML , and the typecasting which is trickering this blockade.

But , there is an setting called "Activate behavior analasys" or something like that.
(it's translated from Danish) turn that of , and then there is no problem.

Perhaps it's the same for some of the other guys/girls having problems with this ???

Gilles C -->> Can you verify ?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 02:58:38 PM
Oh boy , it's good to have "right clicking".
No more messing around the explorer to find "Jumper 48"  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 03:03:06 PM
are you saying AV is the problem  :icon_idea:
is there a way to put program on white list so everything as alowed?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 03:13:51 PM
On my computer it is.

Maybe it's the combination of XML-Calls, loops , and typecasting , pointers ,  that it sees as an potential threat.

i'm not sure , just my best guess

But i know for sure that it works for me now  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 03:26:21 PM
i don't think you can put it on a "White list" programwise , it's a manualy thing the user has to do , i think.

i'm not that much in to AV programs , i just saw the XML and startet thinking "internet" -->> "Proxy" -->> "AV".

but maybe you could try to fool the AV by putting the typecasting in another procedure , so you have the XML call in the first procedure and the typecasting in another ... don't know , just thinking out loud.

or maybe assign the popupcomponent for the XML-doc and control if the popup should actually perform.

ideas , ideas , some good most bad  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on September 24, 2006, 03:33:44 PM
I tried to desactivate any spyware and antivirus programs I use on my PC and it changed nothing on my PC.

Maybe something was still there, maybe not. I have a well protected PC...

So it's not working for me. And I never had any alarm as you did. So I'm not sure if this is the reason. One thing for sure, you found something.

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 24, 2006, 03:43:30 PM
did you start DIY-LC after you turned it off ?
otherwise it dos'nt work.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 06:42:37 PM
i don't think you can put it on a "White list" programwise , it's a manualy thing the user has to do , i think.


I didn't mean to put it programaticaly on white list, but to advise users to do it manually. I don't think that simple fooling with new proc will do anything...I mean, the same code will be written in exe somewhere and damn thing will find it  :icon_twisted: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on September 24, 2006, 07:39:40 PM
did you start DIY-LC after you turned it off ?
otherwise it dos'nt work.

Yes, and I tried a last time after shutting off what I could. Still didn't work.

Sorry.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 24, 2006, 07:48:17 PM
are you sure that AV didn't stay in background. If it has "Disable" option use it instead of shutting it down. Maybe it's DLLs can be active after you turn it down
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on September 24, 2006, 09:12:38 PM
Nah. Doesn't change a thing for me.

It is set-up to warn me of detections anyway, and there's nothing in the logs.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 25, 2006, 01:40:00 AM
Well , i did'nt get any messages either , i just switches the AV off and then it worked.
and nothing in the logs either.

So it was kind of a "lucky strike"  :icon_biggrin:

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 25, 2006, 05:28:25 AM
it's very hard to develop software that ill work everywhere these days. Too many variables, different components, AV and Firewall software standing on your way... :icon_mad:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: d95err on September 25, 2006, 08:07:54 AM
Antivirus problem fixed!

As I said, I submitted the exe file to Sophos, and today I got the following answer:


Hi Erik

please accept my apologies for the delay in getting back to you. The file DIYLayout.exe that you sent to us for analysis was producing a false-positive report. This should now have been corrected and you should ensure that you have all the latest IDE files applied. Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

Regards
--
Martin James Elliott
Technical Support Specialist, Sophos


I checked it by reinstalling the DIY Layout creator, and it works without problems!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 25, 2006, 08:10:30 AM
good news  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 25, 2006, 02:06:22 PM
Hi again ...

Just a thought , bancika , did you think about converting to an other format than XML , to get aruond the AV ?
i use inifiles all the time and as long as they don't get to big (1-200 items) the are quite fast.
and they are easy to work with.

and another , how about making a "user library" where it is possible to make your own components.
maybe make some kind of "fixed" drawing with the leads stretchable.
or just "drop" it and jumper the rest.

Again , i'm just throwing ideas/thoughts out in the open.

Sorry if this has already been discussed , i did'nt read the WHOLE Thread.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 25, 2006, 02:21:22 PM
I wouldn't use anything else for simple reason: XMLDocument provides very easy access to nodes without need for parsing/writing to XML structure. If I used ini files I'd have to make new structure in memory and write separate Load/Save routines. XMLDoc has SaveToFile an LoadFromFile...very handy :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: beer on September 25, 2006, 03:57:41 PM
well , i'm not familiar with "XMLDocument" , so i would'nt know whats best.

Which version of Delphi are you running ?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 25, 2006, 05:16:00 PM
Delphi 7 Professional. Believe me, XMLDoc makes things much easier...and those AV companies should really develop little smarter detection engines  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 26, 2006, 01:45:08 PM
I just uploaded new version. New stuff to try:

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: skiraly017 on September 26, 2006, 02:22:04 PM
I just uploaded new version. New stuff to try:
  • Three different sizes for electrolytes. To mantain compatibility with previous versions older electrolytes are considered Medium sized (just like they were before)
  • Changing colors to traces and solder pads. Now PCB layouts can look much better and more colorful :)

Cheers

Love the new stuff. Any chance we could get icons for axial electrolytics? I don't know about anyone else but I do use them on some projects. Thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 26, 2006, 03:25:30 PM
Sweet :icon_exclaim:
I always liked the color traces on TonePad layouts. Makes it easier to do a layout. Also very helpfull when debugging.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 26, 2006, 05:02:51 PM
Nice additions. The variable-sized electros are great.

There's a small bug in one of the pot shapes.  When you select the pots with the pads "almost in line" four pads are created instead of three.  Two pads are at the same location, thus you actually see three of them.  I verified the four pads are also in the saved file.  The other pot patterns with the pads more spread apart seem to be fine.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 26, 2006, 06:55:34 PM
thanks  :icon_wink:
will be fixed
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 26, 2006, 07:41:14 PM
Also,
Seems to be a problem printing PNP now that I just did the update.  ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 26, 2006, 07:49:42 PM
Hmmm, that's pretty much impossible. I didn't touch anything printer related...damn :icon_mrgreen:
Can anyone confirm this, I don't have a printer to test with
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 26, 2006, 08:00:23 PM
bancika,
Here's the message I get when trying to print PNP
"could not convert variant of type (OleStr) into type (Boolean)"
I hope this helps.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 26, 2006, 08:32:57 PM
does the same message occur when you try to render pno?
Can you mail me (or just uplaod to gallery) layout you have problem with, it looks that it's an error when reading DIY file
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 26, 2006, 08:41:55 PM
Yes,
It happens when trying to render PNP as well.
I will mail you the file bancika.
  Mark
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 26, 2006, 09:05:59 PM
Thanks Mark, it's been fixed. Something I changed in file structure messed it up.
When I add some new feature(s) I'll upload new version
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 26, 2006, 09:14:25 PM
FANTASTICO  ;D
Please let me know if possible.
Thank you bancika.
BTW, the updates are cool  8)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: lerxstlover on September 27, 2006, 12:14:46 PM
bancika,
Here's the message I get when trying to print PNP
"could not convert variant of type (OleStr) into type (Boolean)"
I hope this helps.


I just updated and am getting the same message when trying to print PNP....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: lerxstlover on September 27, 2006, 12:21:19 PM
Here's a quick fix:

I installed an older version (not sure if necessary).

I opened the .diy file in notepad and edited out the extra information in the <trace> node (color, etc. and took the "px" out of the width parameter) and it is working again.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 27, 2006, 12:32:17 PM
yeah, the error occured when it tries to convert "15px" to number..
anyway, it's fixed now. I'm uploading update. Also, I've added inline vertical trimmers, so I hope it covers all types now  :icon_wink:
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: lerxstlover on September 27, 2006, 07:21:51 PM
yeah, the error occured when it tries to convert "15px" to number..
anyway, it's fixed now. I'm uploading update. Also, I've added inline vertical trimmers, so I hope it covers all types now  :icon_wink:
Cheers

I hate those....I'm a Delphi programmer since v1.  It's always the little things  :icon_mrgreen:

I don't know if you fixed it in the new version or not, but when you select several elements (say, 4 or 5 solder pads, for example) and then use the move keys, it moves all the elements on the board.  I've only used it in PCB mode so I don't know if it does that or not in the other modes.  I sometimes will try to shrink down the size of the board so I'll select several elements at once to move them over.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 27, 2006, 07:37:05 PM
strange, it should not hapen. Make sure that category icons in Explorer are not selected. If category icon is selected all components in that category are considered selected...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: lerxstlover on September 27, 2006, 11:23:22 PM
Nope...I just tried it again and made sure only the 4 items were selected and all of them moved.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 28, 2006, 04:57:10 AM
can you please make a screenshot and post it...
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RaceDriver205 on September 28, 2006, 06:09:18 AM
Lol, this thread should have its own forum!  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: lerxstlover on September 28, 2006, 10:05:45 AM
can you please make a screenshot and post it...
Tnx

Ok, I figured it out.....when you hold CTRL and LEFT click in the explorer, you can move just the ones you select.

When you are on the board and hold CTRL and RIGHT click on the components, it not only selects the components in the explorer but also the section header in the explorer so all components in that section move.

This is a great program, but to finish it off, how about you integrate the entire Mouser catalog so that when we're done with the layout we just hit an order button and it automatically orders and pays for everything from Mouser, has it shipped overnight and bills everything to Bill Gates?  :icon_lol:

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 28, 2006, 10:35:33 AM
yeah, I was thinking about order stuff. I just have to find company thst' willing to do some kind sponsorship  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 29, 2006, 12:40:44 AM
bancika,
I get the same error message as before when trying to print or render PNP after making minor changes to a layout.  :icon_frown:
Any quick fix for this??
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 05:02:00 AM
no way  :icon_neutral:
can you please send new layout for testing
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on September 29, 2006, 07:02:36 AM
bancika,
I get the same error message as before when trying to print or render PNP after making minor changes to a layout.  :icon_frown:
Any quick fix for this??
Same here.
I am using version I downloaded last night (24hrs ago).
Problem is in the pad & trace values. When you check values "px" is added to the end of the value & if you delete the "px" off the end it works.
Hope that helps.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 07:55:44 AM
yeah, I fixed for pads but forgot to do it for traces  :icon_mrgreen:
Tnx for notifying...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 10:54:20 AM
Good news: Not only did I fix that but two new components are available: pots and wire for offboard connections.
For wire I was trying to make it look more like "real" wire, i.e. to bend instead of being straight like jumper.
Check out and tell me what you think.   :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 29, 2006, 11:11:42 AM
Hi Bancika, the additions are fine.

The pots need a fix to match actual pot pin spacings, since even 16mm pots have the three pins with one free pad in between, thus covering 5 grid elements instead of 3.  So if you move horizontally you'll have PIN1-free-PIN2-free-PIN3.

The wires look realistic, but in some cases they tend to bend too much near the end. Great addition though!

Also, don't forget to update the release date in the "About" dialogue, as it is not possible to find the version of the actual installation.  The online update search function is great!

Cheers.

P.D.  After some thought I think the pots are intended to be used as external components to be wired, not actual PCB components.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 29, 2006, 11:21:26 AM
A problem I found with wires is that when you save a design with some wires and you reopen, the wires are drawn on the screen, but do not appear listed on the explorer view.  Adding new wires continue correctly with sequential numbering, however you cannot select/delete them anymore.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 11:23:56 AM
Oh yeah, I didn't try to measure real pot :)
I'll enlarge it. As for wire I'll have to change something, increase minimum level of "bending" and decreas maximum level.
Also, I'll check that listing bug you mentioned
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 12:39:47 PM
it's fixed now I hope :)
Uploading it... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on September 29, 2006, 02:51:20 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Emnitec on September 29, 2006, 06:11:51 PM

This software is growing to be outstanding...! The bugs are quickly fixed (even if new ones comes..but, hey..! It's software). I've searched, but I found nothing about possibilities of donating some $$ to bancika? Just to show that we appreciate the developement....

Anyway, thanks for the excellent software!!

/Emnitec

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 29, 2006, 06:46:00 PM

This software is growing to be outstanding...! The bugs are quickly fixed (even if new ones comes..but, hey..! It's software). I've searched, but I found nothing about possibilities of donating some $$ to bancika? Just to show that we appreciate the developement....

Anyway, thanks for the excellent software!!

/Emnitec

Open the program and look in the lower left corner under the HELP section. There is a link there if you care to make a donation.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Emnitec on September 29, 2006, 06:49:37 PM
Hmm....right in front of my eyes....  8)

Thanks RLBJR65!


/Emnitec
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 29, 2006, 06:50:55 PM
Speaking of donations, those parts you sent me are great RLBJR65. I made modded Ross comp with those CA3080A and now MrEQ with CD4049...working great :)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: psw on September 30, 2006, 05:11:09 AM
Hey there Bancika...and all the folks contributing to the development of this program here

GrEaT sTuFf...

This program really is easy and useful. I previously used stripboard magic and it is a shocker and nowhere near as nice and easy to do what I want to do, as this software really is...

I have used it a little bit lately on the sustainer thread over at projectguitar.com and will be using and recomending it more in the future.

A couple of questions...
...how do you download new features...do you have to uninstall the whole thing and download again to get updates??? (off board components sound cool...(you do have a 4PDT toggle switch I hope!!...also LED's)...
...It has frozen on me a few times now, thankfully it has not lost anything, the explorer part kind of goes blank...I think it is after quite a few alterations (moving components around and such), but on small circuits, nonetheless...possibly a bug!

Otherwise, as I say, didn't loose anything, was able to close it, reopen and find it again and all was well, but it has happened a few times now.

But, hey....the development speed is staggering and it makes it so easy to draw something up and email or post it on the net within minutes.

I'd love to see you do something similar with schematics. This thing is so easy to use, it would be great if you could use it to design circuits, not just lay them out, with the same kind of interface.

Anyway...enough from me...will be spreading the word and I hope it does well for you as a promotional tool or whatever, I'm sure we will be seeing a lot of designs with the storm watermark below it from now on turning up all over!

pete

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on September 30, 2006, 05:58:08 AM
Hi Bancika,
Great addition there with the pots & wire. This thing is getting cooler by the day.
Now for a couple of new bugs sorry!
1.When adding a new pot the taper option is blank.
2.Once a pot has been placed you can't change it's value.
Also corresponding numbers on the pot lugs would be useful & could ease some confusion for some.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 30, 2006, 06:49:40 AM
thanks guys!
psw, with big layouts it takes some time to render board, so maybe that's the problem. give it a second or two.
pyrop, will fix them. tnx

Cheers  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 30, 2006, 08:52:28 AM
:icon_surprised: :icon_smile: :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :icon_exclaim:

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on September 30, 2006, 06:25:27 PM
Bancika new stuff works great for me :icon_biggrin: Except for the pot taper prob. pyrop mentioned.

One q is there any way to move the board down a bit farther below the project name and  title? That will make it easier to use the off board components.

I'm glad you found a good use for some of those parts! IMO the CA3080A sounds better than the 3080E in the Ross comp. Also looks cooler.

Pyrop, just saw your diode comp drop in board :icon_cool: I did 1 on perf awhile back, found some tiny little brad (wire) nails at a hobby store about 1/2" long, that worked great for pins.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 01, 2006, 08:32:53 AM
RLBJR65, board cannot be moved...yet :)
psw, I forgot to reply to your question. To update you don't have to uninstall previous version. Just install latest into same folder...it will update necessary files.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on October 01, 2006, 12:18:05 PM
Like the way the wires curve n stuff. Do you think it necessary or even possible to create a grid off board to organise pots, switches and stuff? It would just make it all easier when placing them.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 01, 2006, 02:38:13 PM
Actually, there is light gray grid already, from first or second version (we are at 13 now)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on October 01, 2006, 04:58:29 PM
Oh, so there is. It's just that ive got my screen brightness a bit up - i hate grey bars and straining my eyes.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on October 02, 2006, 10:41:14 AM
A suggestion for better handling of external components and parts list might be to have two separate pages or tabs:  one for the layout alone (ideally centered on the screen), and the other for the title and parts list exclusively.  This would placing components around the board and allow seeing the parts list in larger designs.

Though these ideas might sound good I'm afraid such an implementation might require major surgery.

Finally, it should be possible to edit wire/pads/tracks colours after they are placed.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 02, 2006, 02:50:22 PM
I don't think I uderstood first part. Can you explain more. No problem for changing colors...
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on October 02, 2006, 03:11:31 PM
OK, I'll try to make the general idea clearer.

Currently there is a single "page" or "view" or "window" where the Project Title, the Layout or Board, and the Parts List are organized together (from top to bottom).  This poses some problems, which are:

1) When the Layout and/or number of parts in the Parts List grow, the Parts List is not visible entirely as it grows below the bottom of the screen (I use 1024x768 screen resolution).

2) If you want to place the external components and wiring, like Pots and Jacks, it is not possible to place them above the Board since they will overlap with the Project Title, and not possible to place them below the Board as they will overlap with the Parts Pist.

A way of avoiding these problems could be to have two different "views" or "pages", one for the Layout or Board alone (centered on the screen so external parts can be added around), and another view with the Project Title and Parts List.


P.D.  I don't feel very comfortable suggesting this as I understand this might represent a lot of modifications to the SW.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2006, 05:58:12 AM
I know that something should be done about visibility with large projects, but I'm not sure if it's the best solution...will think about it
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on October 03, 2006, 09:11:15 AM
A second option for visibility would be to make the main panel scrollable and then provide the user with the ability to change the spacing between title and board and between board and parts list.

Again, depending on how the code is written, this could be major surgery...
Erik
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2006, 09:55:18 AM
well, we're one step closer to it. I'm uploading new version that features scrollable work area  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on October 03, 2006, 05:00:17 PM
bancika, how quickly do you work?

I'm not sure if the idea of seperate panels or windows would work so well... one reason why DIYLC is easy to use is that it is contained in one screen. No menus, no hassle. I think the scrollable work area solves the problem of overcrowding, without making it tedious to use. Just tested it it - brilliant. Perhaps scrollable parts list at the side?

BTW how has the file size shrunk?????
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2006, 05:57:34 PM
Well, I removed wingdings font that was previously included in installation. I realized that most users do have it. Now program checks for font anf if it's not installed it tells user to install it. Without it those buttons in explorer won't be displayed correctly.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 04, 2006, 07:17:20 PM
Hi fellas, new version is up.
I change few minor bugs, added jacks and reorganized menus. It had to be done because left panel was getting overcrowded with all these components. I hate when scroll bar appears in menu  :icon_twisted:
What do you think about jacks? I thing it's enough to have only two possible orientations cause most of us will use them and it made jack placement very easy, only one click.
What do you think?
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on October 04, 2006, 11:16:01 PM
jacks are a nice addition.  however, i would definitely connect the blue parts to the sleeve, etc. so people can tell the corresponding connections.  the order of the solder holes differ from jack to jack, so if it's not too difficult.  either that, or color them accordingly, like this:
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/choklitlove/jacksugg.gif)


i don't know.  just something.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 05, 2006, 05:45:29 AM
Great idea (coloring), at first I made it like your first suggested. And it was ok only for mono, but stereo looked like crap because all blue lines were intersecting and stuff...Ill put two colors then..
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on October 05, 2006, 06:15:23 AM
Hi Bancika,
This program is getting better and better. The jacks are a great addition and its a good idea colouring each part.
One thing can i suggest? is changing the default values for resistor & caps as most resistor values we use are in the "K" range and most of the caps used are listed as "uF".
Just a suggestion.

Thanks
pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 05, 2006, 07:41:47 AM
Sure, I'll change default units
Next addition is tube sockets...
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MikeH on October 05, 2006, 02:57:23 PM
Maybe it's my setup here, but when I select the "print pnp" option I just get a blank sheet of paper.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 05, 2006, 03:01:51 PM
yeah, some users have problem with printing...I don't have a clue at the moment.

help heeded, I'm making tube socket but gives me real PITA. How should I align pins to 2.54mm grid with noval tube? Any ideas? I guess you can't use PCB mounting tube socket with board that's grid-drilled  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MikeH on October 05, 2006, 03:08:06 PM
Yeah, that sounds like a mathematical impossibility to me.  9 pins on a grid fits like a round peg in a square hole
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Gilles C on October 05, 2006, 03:51:23 PM
Can this help you?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=565627&stamp=1107301789

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=565591&stamp=1107298739

from http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50734

Gilles
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 05, 2006, 08:36:17 PM
I finished them. Lugs are not forming perfect circle, but it's impossible anyway :)
Also, I changed jack design a bit, now elements are colored differently.
Uploading new version...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on October 05, 2006, 09:02:46 PM
I finished them. Lugs are not forming perfect circle, but it's impossible anyway :)
Also, I changed jack design a bit, now elements are colored differently.
Uploading new version...
Beat me to it. was thinking something like this
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/pingrid.jpg)

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 05, 2006, 10:06:03 PM
Great additions!

The project and edit drop down menus at the bottom do not work for me. Toolbox, help and donation work okay though.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on October 05, 2006, 10:28:58 PM
Awesome!  i just used the wire for the first time.  my favorite feature so far!!!


actually, i think i suggested it...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 06, 2006, 04:43:57 AM
yeah, I forgot to program drop down menu...that's what happens when you hink about million things.
pyrop, one more thing that needs to be taken care of is scale. I measured my noval tube socket and it's about 8 and a half grids in diameter (mounting part)...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 06, 2006, 10:57:01 AM
and fixed it...  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Krong on October 06, 2006, 11:49:52 AM
I know this has been said before but WOW!!! What an awesome project. Great work, I love it. Thankyou thankyou thankyou!!! I'm surfing your wonderful site right now. This is one helluva forum.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 06, 2006, 12:00:05 PM
Thanks man  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: xshredx on October 06, 2006, 01:39:26 PM
Do you take suggestions for another component?  I would really like to see a relay added. I had a look around, and most dpdt relays have fairly similar dimensions. Those that I checked have their mounting holes 2.54mm from each other, which is the spacing of the holes in your software. And the outer dimensions are fairly similar.
These are the dimensions for a Omron relay, but the NEC EA2 series (which most of the people on this board use I think) are almost identical in dimensions...
(http://www.banzaieffects.com/files/images_detailed/d_1017.gif)
I promise to make a pcb for a relay controlled looper if you add this component...    ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 06, 2006, 04:03:07 PM
xshredx, you can use the DIL IC to do it. When you try it will say " Warning" "IC you are trying to create is not a standard size, continue?" click yes it will make it anyway and you can then make the component name, value etc. anything you want.

I did this with the SIL IC to make a bridge rectifier and a couple of voltage regulator fo a PS layout.

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 06, 2006, 04:29:45 PM
for regulators it might be better to use transistor component. Keep in mind that those lower curernt regulators look exactly like any other transistor...as for relay, it's not a problem. I can use same routines like for IC's just change standard sizes and color. 10 minutes of work...
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 06, 2006, 05:17:05 PM
Added relays, now your turn xshredx  :icon_mrgreen:
Damn, three updates for single day. That's too much even for me. I'm getting sick of this project, have to rest for a few days. You guys enjoy using it and keep ideas comming
Cheers!  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: shadowmaster on October 07, 2006, 04:10:04 AM
Ideas that just popped in my head.

Box Selection feature. Selection by enclosing the group of components you want move by a box. Easier than selecting each of them one-by-one on the explorer pane. Only components, traces etc. that are TOTALLY enclosed by the box should be selected and not of those that are partially enclosed.

     (http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l91/ryanogal/boxselection.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 07, 2006, 05:09:22 AM
yeah, I'm aware of that feature, but it's not that easy to do...maybe I'll add it.
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 07, 2006, 10:53:24 AM
for regulators it might be better to use transistor component. Keep in mind that those lower curernt regulators look exactly like any other transistor

Working on a bench top power supply, adjustable +/- 25 volts. I've built one already on perf just improving the perf layout and a new pcb.
LM317T and LM337T  TO-220 package. Way to many bridge rectifiers to list, check at NTE http://www.nteinc.com/Web_pgs/Bridge.html.

The ones I have will all fit in SIP even the W0? series that are round I just bend the leads. It takes 7 holes on perf. pad, open, pad, open, etc.
Only problem is that it will not list the odd SIP in the parts list so I used the part # as the part name.

What is this version 20 or so?
Take a break, you deserve it!
Go build something :icon_biggrin:
I really love your projects page BTW. Your guitar is sweet and the Tube Reactor is just to :icon_cool:

Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 07, 2006, 11:51:56 AM
what's odd SIP?

yeah, I'm building something: ross comp and dr boogie. Now I'm planning to build a sustainer and Fender Princeton tube amp :)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 07, 2006, 07:05:49 PM
I thought the program considered it as an odd size because I used 7 holes, but it looks like SIL IC is not working at all. No mater how many pins I try to use vertically or horizontally it gives me this warning, "IC you are trying to create is not standard size, continue?"

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 07, 2006, 07:40:41 PM
well, I'm not too familiar with SIL IC's, the only one I've ever seen is from guitar speakers I turned apart :)
So I put only few standard lengths, don't remember if 7 is covered. Just ignore warning till I fix it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 07, 2006, 09:00:33 PM
Yeah I was ignoring it anyway just came up because of the relay thing.
SIL or SIP are not that common in stomp boxes and amps. Marshall MS2 practice amp has a KIA6213 thats a 9 pin other than that I don't know. I have seen many preamp and amp chips in car and home stereos that are SIL.

I actually have a couple of JRC4558 that are SIL. One day I will use them for something just seems pointless to make a board for an IC that is obsolete. Maybe I'll just keep them until someone needs one for replacement.

yeah, I'm building something: ross comp and dr boogie. Now I'm planning to build a sustainer and Fender Princeton tube amp :)
Cheers

All great projects! Those will keep you away from a keyboard for awhile.
One of these days I will finish my FireFly :icon_rolleyes: A Princeton would be awesome!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 08, 2006, 05:53:28 AM
yeah, interesting projects. those stompboxes will be placed inside woden enclosure. I've finished circuit/wiring, today I'm finishing one enclosure (it needs at least 3-4 clear coats to shine like guitar). Firefly is great little amp, it was my first DIY project, done without any knowledge. I'd certainly do it better today, but anyway it's awesome, exaclty the sound I like for lead.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on October 08, 2006, 09:22:04 AM
Just used latest version - brilliant as ever.

One minor thing - wiht jacks and pots, would it be possible to move the board fruther down? It gets a bit cramped at the top, and putting them at the bottom clashes with text.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 08, 2006, 10:17:07 AM
sure, I'll move it...1cm for starters, ok?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on October 08, 2006, 11:12:17 AM
Perhaps 8 strips on stripboard (however much that is.)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 08, 2006, 12:07:38 PM
1 strip = 2.54mm, so 4 strips = 1cm  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 10, 2006, 09:07:18 AM
Hello guys, I've made few changes to make things easier with offboard wiring.
Hope you like it  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: uan on October 11, 2006, 04:16:26 AM
i've problem with trimmer..
i create my layout using previous version. When i load it using current version, my trimmers was 4 grid above but its solder pad was in correct position. I tried to move down the trimmer to the correct position but the solder pad which is already in correct grid follows to moving down.

one more thing, my DIYLC often freeze when i want to minimize, maximize or even moving the window left and right. I'm using Pentium 4 HT with 512mb memory.. i think its enough to run your software..

btw, it helps me alot!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 11, 2006, 08:44:51 AM
Hello,
thanks for reporting bug, it's been fixed now along with another one. As for freezing, it's probably caused by slow drawing on large layouts, just give it a second or two...
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: orgaqualia on October 17, 2006, 04:06:55 PM
Great software! Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Xavier on October 20, 2006, 08:28:33 AM
All the updates are great, Bancika. I'm having a really good time by using your software.

Thumbs up for you !!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 20, 2006, 11:25:11 AM
I'm glad you do my friend...looking forward to your layouts  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: mdc on October 23, 2006, 04:56:10 AM
Dude this software kicks serious butt now! I can't imagine what I would do without it now. Thanks heaps. I uploaded a non guitar related layout (dazer) to your site. More to come. Thanks again and keep up the awesome work! Always look forward to seeing what is added with the updates!  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on October 23, 2006, 09:20:50 AM
Has anything changed with the "Render PNP" feature. I used to be able to render the PNP image, convert it to an Adobe PDF file and send it off to my board guy without having to resize the image. Now if I render the PNP, it comes out substantially larger than intended (page scaling is turned off). If I try to resize it, the image loses its resolution. Any ideas? Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 23, 2006, 09:54:29 AM
mdc, thanks  :icon_redface:
skiraly017, I haven't changed render routines for a long time...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: skiraly017 on October 23, 2006, 10:37:33 AM
skiraly017, I haven't changed render routines for a long time...

Strange. The software has been through a few updates since that last time I had to render a PNP so I can't even tell you what the last version was that did not display this behavior. I'll keep playing around with it and see what happens.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stm on October 23, 2006, 11:01:25 AM
Hi, I have 3 observations today:

1) The rendered PCB image should be created with a "bits-per-pixel" or "bpp" value of 200 DPI.  Currently it is 96 DPI, which is the usual windows desktop resolution. If the resolution is set to 200 DPI for both X and Y axis, then most softwares should be able to interpret the real image dimensions automatically.

2) After you included the wires in the versions, a text drawing bug started appearing on the working screen (application window).  The right half of the title and subtitle texts of the circuit are clipped in the window if they are large enough.  The image attached at the end illustrates this.  On the other hand, when rendering the design the texts appear OK in the GIF.

3) Today I pressed a "check for update" option and indicated a new version was available dated Oct 18th.  I was supossed to have that version, however I downloadd it again and reinstalled it.  When running the program after this still indicates there is a new version available.

(http://i13.tinypic.com/4e09jcg.png)

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 23, 2006, 11:11:11 AM
1) will think about it
2) strange, I tried now with very long text and nothing was wrong.  :icon_rolleyes:
3) I probably forgot to write correct version in software...it has to match with version written in update file on site. Next one will be correct

Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: skiraly017 on October 23, 2006, 05:43:49 PM
Just out of curiousity, is anyone else having issues with the PNP rendering in the correct size? Just trying to figure out if it's user error. Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on October 23, 2006, 06:23:16 PM
Firstly, thanks for making this software available to all of us bancika- a super valuable tool!

Second... transformers.  I started to search through this thread for mention of it, but seeing as it's 37 pages long, I gave up.  It doesn't seem that there are transfomers available within the software to be placed.  Has this been addressed/pondered?

cheers,
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 23, 2006, 06:44:11 PM
yep, it exists for more than 5 versions. Download latest version and try out :)
By the way, next version will have little thicker wires (for 2 pixels), it looks much better and more realistic.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on October 24, 2006, 10:04:56 AM
I've just started experimenting with this program and am really liking it.

For the simple - ish designs in my analog audio world this makes a lot more sense than creating component profiles in something like Eagle.

Many thanks.

Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: DryRoasted on October 24, 2006, 06:58:21 PM
Heres an idea, add a type of text object that appears on the PNP, kinda so you can put your name or the circuits name on the PCB.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on October 24, 2006, 11:55:33 PM
Like this?
(http://aronnelson.com/gallery/albums/album76/CreamPie_PNP.gif)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 25, 2006, 05:13:51 AM
why not, it's only bold mirrored text :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on October 25, 2006, 03:13:59 PM
bancika-
why not make the "Traces" available on Perf boards as well as PCB?  It is possible to place traces on a perf project, but only by trickery.  The leads are so tiny looking and tend to blend into edges of other components like IC's.  MarkM's perf layout gallery (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album77 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album77)) includes many perf layouts using your software that utilize traces.  I think they look great.  He's done this (I'm assuming) by either creating the project as a PCB layout and then changing the board to perf when complete, or laying all the traces before placing components - as either method will allow you to get traqces onto a perf project.

cheers,
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 25, 2006, 03:59:22 PM
ok  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Dragonfly on October 29, 2006, 01:39:23 PM
bancika-
why not make the "Traces" available on Perf boards as well as PCB?  It is possible to place traces on a perf project, but only by trickery.  The leads are so tiny looking and tend to blend into edges of other components like IC's.  MarkM's perf layout gallery (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album77 (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album77)) includes many perf layouts using your software that utilize traces.  I think they look great.  He's done this (I'm assuming) by either creating the project as a PCB layout and then changing the board to perf when complete, or laying all the traces before placing components - as either method will allow you to get traqces onto a perf project.

cheers,
zpyder

 Bancika...the way i "used" to covert PCB images to perfboard images simply was this...

1) select PCB on the "board properties" table.
2) do a completed PCB layout.
3) save PCB layout.
4) render PCB image.
5) render PNP.

that gives you the PCB layout...the way the program "used" to be, it was super easy to convert the PCB layout to a perfboard layout....

1) with the PCB layout still open (and saved), select "board properties".
2) select "perfboard"
3) this is where things have changed....you "used" to be able to select "save image as", and you could simply add the word "perf" after the circuit name...the new version of your software doesn't have "save image as"...it only has "save image", which automatically overwrites the original PCB version that was saved.
4) render image.

anyway,  miss the "save image as" option...it meant that there was no "re-drawing" of the layout involved....

other than that, fantastic sofware !

keep it up !

AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 29, 2006, 04:19:23 PM
Save project as is still there it's just been moved from the quick tasks menu to the project menu on the bottom of the page.

RB
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 29, 2006, 06:56:51 PM
Save project as is still there it's just been moved from the quick tasks menu to the project menu on the bottom of the page.

RB

yep :)
I just moved options from left menu to new popup menu at the bottom to leave space for growing list of components. In PCB mode (which has more components) all item menus couldn't fit (when using 1024x768 resolution) so user must scroll. I hate that so I made new menu :)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Dragonfly on October 29, 2006, 07:34:23 PM
a-ha !

cool...thanks for the tip....

AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ubersam on October 30, 2006, 04:28:35 PM
Great piece of app(lication)! I used DIY Layout Creator to design my first pcb. The board is for my 2nd DIY project.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/ubersam/SanctusMicaelis/sanctusmicaelis_render.jpg (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/ubersam/SanctusMicaelis/sanctusmicaelis_render.jpg)

I made a couple of observations: 1) I cannot get the app. to print to Adobe PDF. 2) When rendering the PnP, it comes out twice as big as it should be. 3) I cannot get the app to print to one particular USB printer (HP 1020), but it will print to other printers. 4) On my W2K machines, I cannot render image or PnP in jpg, the only option I have is gif. (jpg and bmp are only available on my XP machine).

It may just be an issue with my setup, other than that, glad I came accross this program. Thanks-
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 30, 2006, 05:17:26 PM
Thanks!

first, your layout looks great..please submit it to gallery  :icon_redface:

1) As for PDF, no wonder you can't export, I didn't make that function yet. The only way is to use some software printer like Acrobat that will create PDF.
2) it depends on program you open it with, I was using photoshop for testing and it was ok
3) don't know :)
4) I really can't see how you managed to render PnP to anything but GIF because that's the only format available. BMP, JPG and GIF are available only when you export whole layout. Here's why: jpg adds "noise" to picture, so it wouldn't be nice to have them printed on PnP. On the other hand, bmp takes too much space. GIF is the best choice, knowing that only black and white colors are present

Best regards!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on October 31, 2006, 10:37:41 AM
Another request

The ability to add offboard like jacks so they are floating around the board, without attaching them to a hole on the board.

It'd also be nice to be able to move components once you have them placed instead of having to delete them and replace it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 31, 2006, 11:13:22 AM
1) Who's forcing you to attach offboard component with anything?
2) This is added at least three months ago, if you can't see move buttons read the manual. Most guys start complaining and asking without even trying to look better at window or read manual.  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Peter Snowberg on October 31, 2006, 11:19:13 AM
Fantastic work! 8) 8) 8)

Your software is very impressive and just keeps getting better!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 31, 2006, 11:53:37 AM
Tnx man  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on October 31, 2006, 01:36:26 PM
The ability to add offboard like jacks so they are floating around the board, without attaching them to a hole on the board.

You already can do this... just try.  Make sure you have the newest version.

bancika-
Is t here a ay to select more than one component at a time (for moving) without using the components list at right?  As in, is there a way to click each component ON THE BOARD one at a time that I want to select, or select a region?

cheers,
zyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 31, 2006, 02:54:41 PM
zpyder, multi select is also added some time ago.
1st way: hold ctrl and right click on components on board
2nd way: hold ctrl and left click on components in explorer
region select is not yet supported.
again, it all says in the manual IIRC :icon_rolleyes:\
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ubersam on October 31, 2006, 03:03:13 PM
first, your layout looks great..please submit it to gallery  :icon_redface:
Thanks.. I will submit it once I figure out how to describe it...

...2) it depends on program you open it with, I was using photoshop for testing and it was ok
Previewed the renderings in MS Paint and IE. I really should cough up the dough for a cool graphics app.

4) I really can't see how you managed to render PnP to anything but GIF because that's the only format available. BMP, JPG and GIF are available only when you export whole layout...
My mistake, I rendered the PnP on the W2K machine and when I did not see the JPG or BMP options; I went to the XP machine and rendered the layout instead of the PnP. In the process, I confused myself.. :icon_redface: Anyway, all is good. Thanks again!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on October 31, 2006, 03:21:16 PM
bancika-

thanks man... I figured it'd be already supported somehow.  Nice'n'easy, too.

thanks
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 31, 2006, 05:05:00 PM
By the way, it's been a while since someone recommended feature/component. C'mon guys  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on October 31, 2006, 05:46:18 PM
By the way, it's been a while since someone recommended feature/component. C'mon guys  :icon_mrgreen:

Allow placements of transformers at diagonal angles.  I know this may be difficult to do.....

zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 31, 2006, 06:01:44 PM
Well, I don't know how useful it would be. I mean, there are only few stompboxes that use transformers and all of them use them horizontaly. It would be a waste of time
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: RLBJR65 on October 31, 2006, 09:29:44 PM
By the way, it's been a while since someone recommended feature/component. C'mon guys  :icon_mrgreen:

Really not much left that you could add :icon_biggrin:
But since you asked for it :icon_wink:... how about wah inductors?


Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 01, 2006, 04:22:19 AM
I've never seen and inductor live. Can you give me more info, pin number and spacing, ect
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: skiraly017 on November 01, 2006, 09:40:08 AM
By the way, it's been a while since someone recommended feature/component. C'mon guys  :icon_mrgreen:

Came across these two needs while doing a layout the other day...radial electrolytics and tranny sockets (the round ones).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 01, 2006, 11:30:34 AM
ok for radial electros, but why sockets? I mean, putting transistor is sufficient. With both transistor and socket it will look overcrowded.
Thanks  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on November 01, 2006, 01:51:08 PM
Could you possibly do the downlaod everything package on your site? It's just easier.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 01, 2006, 03:08:40 PM
yeah, but
a) I have very slow connection and sending new package each day takes some time
b) then you couldn't see ads on my site, wouldn't ya :icon_wink:I've got to make a living
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: skiraly017 on November 01, 2006, 08:35:21 PM
ok for radial electros, but why sockets? I mean, putting transistor is sufficient. With both transistor and socket it will look overcrowded.
Thanks  :icon_wink:

Because it would be uselful for spacing purposes when trying to lay out a PCB. I know how much room resistors, cap, etc. need. Not all transistors should be soldered in. I'm working on a Tone Bender clone. The trannies are $16 for a matched set from Small Bear, not something you want to accidentally ruin with too much heat from a soldering iron. The round sockets take up more space than a single transistor does. Just suggesting an idea.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Dragonfly on November 02, 2006, 02:32:27 AM
Bancika...

I don't know if his has been "previously mentioned", but here goes....

you seem to have included "almost" everything to do a complete layout, including wiring...you have switches, jacks, pots, wires....how about including batteries and maybe power jacks, so that complete wiring layouts can be made ?

anyway, great program...

AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 02, 2006, 05:06:39 AM
skiraly017, I'll consider it!
Dragonfly, yeah, I was also thinking about them...will be added, sooner or later
Thanks :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: RLBJR65 on November 02, 2006, 06:36:10 AM
I've never seen and inductor live. Can you give me more info, pin number and spacing, ect

I have 1 or 2 laying around I'll take a look.

RB
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 02, 2006, 12:14:33 PM
hello!

i dont know if there's a way to do this, but how about if you have a wire attached to something offboard like a jack, and then you move the jack, make it so the wire is fixed to the jack instead of just fixed to the grid point.

also, it could automatically detect when a wire end is on the baord and add a solder pad to it automatically?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 02, 2006, 02:52:24 PM
for first thing, it would make whole thing even more complicated than it is. I'd have to add another relation to file system :icon_rolleyes:
As for second one, sure. I can make it create pad when wire is on board.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: para on November 02, 2006, 02:56:17 PM
let me say first, thank you very very much for all the hard work you've put into this soft, and for making it free. i've been using it quite a bit lately. you had asked for suggestions and i have some things i would like to see added but i just got the newest version, so some things might have already been addressed


1: add a "save as" option - so you can make some changes and save a newer version with a different name and not have to overwrite the source (i just copy the source file now and rename it, but its still a bit of a hassle)

2: have a copy component option for when you have ten 0.1uf caps and you don't want to type all that out over and over. oh and a "control-c" "control-v" too

3: make the pots and jacks smaller so they don't take up so much real-estate

4: add a few more wire shapes to keep it clean looking with full boards

5: someone already said to make traces work on the perfboard and i would like to see this too.

6: drag and drop everything (please please please please please please please ) someone else already asked for a box selection tool too, that would be amazing

7: when selecting more then one thing right now it automatically selects the entire category its in, and then all of those components move or are deleted too ( like clicking on a resistor and jumper while holding control will actually select all of the resistors and jumpers and they will all move or be deleted. please fix this.

8: it would be awesome to be able to open two or more separate layouts at once and copy out parts of one to paste into the other or combine them together with one click. like an “open into” option so you can build a bunch of little things, like a pre amp that you end up using in a lot of your designs, and just add it instead of having to do another layout every time. maybe have it work sort of like layers in photoshop. then have a "merge down" or "flatten" option once its in the right location and you have made any changes to get them to fit together.

9: use the keyboards arrow keys to move components instead of just clicking the arrows

10: right click to select doesn't work about 50% of time, especially with more components on the board. also maybe make the footprint a little bit bigger for the jumpers and thin things too, so you don't have to be so precise with your curser (i run my monitors at a really high rez so one pixel width is pretty small on the screens)

11: and the biggest thing of all is that it is incredibly slow after you get 20 or so components on the board. i exceed this very fast and it gets excruciating (like pron on a 14.4). i run a 3g P3 with 1g of ram and i can run like 80 stereo audio tracks, plugins, and softsysnths at once with no glitching, so having this take literally 20 seconds to select one component just to move it one hole to the right is kind of crazy to me. can you please explain why this is happening and what i can do to help it. i have a lot of big projects coming up. anything i can do to help please just ask me. maybe dropping the rez on the component images would help a bit. i'll take speed over beauty any day if thats the case. maybe start running vector?

12: also at a certain point when building big layouts, the program will give me an error and start deleting components until the board is empty. i forgot to write down what the actually error is. i think it had something to do with ram. it obviously didn't do anything to the source so i just endtask and reload, but i think this might the source of the speed issue too. i think the ram handling is probably something you should dig into. i think its not clearing out its old storage use or something so it just keeps adding and adding but never cleaning. i wish i knew enough to give you a hand, but this is way over my head.


thanks again for making this. i hope i didn't come off as being too negative, that wasn’t my intention at all. i love this app and i would just like to see it grow.



thanks again,
steven
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on November 02, 2006, 03:17:53 PM
2: have a copy component option for when you have ten 0.1uf caps and you don't want to type all that out over and over. oh and a "control-c" "control-v" too
I'll second that...

6: drag and drop everything
this would be SWEET...

7: when selecting more then one thing right now it automatically selects the entire category its in, and then all of those components move or are deleted too ( like clicking on a resistor and jumper while holding control will actually select all of the resistors and jumpers and they will all move or be deleted. please fix this.
I'll confirm this - it seems to be an error.  More accurately, if you are selecting multiple components by holding ctrl and right-clicking them ON THE BOARD, as soon as you select your second resistor/cap/whatever, the entire category heading is selected and if you press delete, ALL of them are deleted.  However, if you hold ctrl and select multiple whatever on the COMPONENT LIST at right, it does NOT do this.  Please fix...

10: right click to select doesn't work about 50% of time, especially with more components on the board.
yes, another bug.  I've noticed two problems - 1) I usually have to right-click a component TWICE to get the menu to drop down... not sure why.  I'd say 85-90% os the time it takes two clicks.  2) Sometimes the program seems to stop responding to right clicks alltogether... this is bizarre and I don't know why, but it's super frustrating trying to delete a single trace when the program won't recognize your right clicks.  I can't tell if this is UE or what, but it seems that when it starts not working, NOTHING can be selected...

11: and the biggest thing of all is that it is incredibly slow after you get 20 or so components on the board.
I've also had this problem and is rather frustrating... this may be a complicated one


cheers!
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 02, 2006, 03:55:33 PM
Hi,
1) it exists, look at the menu at the bottom of screen
2) I'll try
3) It's important to keep things sized as they are. If I shrink pots and someone wants to use them directly on board it could screw up things...pin spacing is important, but if I keep pin spacing and shrink pot "body" it will look silly :)
4) already exists, right click on wire and select "change shape", if you need greater angle just use two or more wires connected together
5) ok
6) I know but it's not an easy thing to do...will try it
7) will look
8) it's slow enough with one layout, more layouts at the same time would make a mess :)
9) will think about it
10) ok. zpyder, you need to click twice but it's by intention. One click selects compoent, second one opens popup menu. If component is already selected you get popu imediately. It would be pain in the butt if you try to select more components and get popup menu each time.
11) everything is vector drawn. the problems are:
a) each time something is changed I need to draw whole layout
b) components are transparent, it takes a lot of cpu time to make something transparent
c) because of right click selection I need to have bitmap hidden inside memory which is the same size as layout which shows placement of component (component footprints are coloured with different colors so I can know which component is at position X,Y)
d) I use standard windows drawing routines (TCanvas) which are painfully slow, I plan to move to graphic32 components which are very fast but I don't have time for it because it's a major operation

Thanks for suggestions, program will get better thanks to you guys (partialy)  :icon_wink:
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: para on November 02, 2006, 05:21:19 PM
1: cool I should have checked

3: I don’t care if it looks silly, I want the space. And I never use 24mm pots anyway. I use 16mm or 8mm which are way smaller,

4: no I wanted more shapes, like a 10 different shapes instead of 2 and adding more components slows things down.

6: drag and drop will make the world a better place i promise !!!!!

10: on top of the clicking twice its still doesn’t work all the time, some components will simply never select unless you go to the explorer view and click on something else, then click back on the one you want. the pop up is cool with two clicks when it does work

11: oh right transparency does take a lot of cpu I forgot about that. you should stop using it. the only thing that needs to be see through is the ic, right? and with that you can just use a colored/gray outline for it and leave the center empty for cuts. i assume you want things transparent so you can see the cut tracks and stuff when setting up to make the board. but if you instead make an option to render the board with the traces and cuts, but no components and then have it flip so its just a mirror image of the board alone (the way it should be), it would be better for everyone ( all in one click “render board image”). so we don't have to reverse it in our head when cutting stripboard and stuff. and the option to hit the spacebar and have everything go clear doesn’t work right for me anyway. whenever i hit it, it will stay clear and never go back to normal, i have to close and restart. so i don’t use it anyway.

any corners you have to cut to get this to run faster is expectable to me. pretty and silly done mean anything. just understand that. speed should always be #1 on the list.

if you had to say which one of the 4 things you listed was the biggest cpu hog what would it be?

 
And just so you know I would be willing to pay for this software once the speed issue gets resolved, so keep that in mind. Like $5-10 or more to start from everyone that uses it, to keep getting more improvements would add up quick. obviously free is nice but i having this app running fast is worth $ to me. and you can still have a simple free version too.

anyone else feel this way? or should just i shut up ???


again thanks for making such a great app! and letting me make suggestions at all


steven
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 02, 2006, 05:50:33 PM
3: Those pots take onlt 12.5mm of space, grid spacing is 2.54mm
4: every time you click change shape you'll get new one, there are over 2 bilion of possible combinations. Changing shape just sets new random 32bit number which determines curve shape
10: I'm trying to replicate that but can't, damn thing works nice here
11: I tried removin transparency but improvement was only about 20%. Not worth it.
The most limiting thing is that I work all manualy using TCanvas. Graphic32 class would make it faster at least few times. I've seen some animation demos which use it and they were very fast. Like I said, it's my wish for a long time to make a transition to G32 but it will take major source code facelift to do that. I have faculty, my DIY projects, other commercial software I work on, playing guitar, very time-consuming girlfriend so it's hard to find time for everything.

As for paying stuff, program will remain free, but you are welcome to make either money either parts donation. RLBJR65 sent a bag full of great stuff (trannies, IC's) and pete from Sustainer thread sent me a spool of wire for my sustainer(s). If I get time to improve program I wouldn't separate two versions, that's for sure :)

By the way, I fixed that error with selection when selecting component would select whole group and I made traces and pads available in perfboard. Also, I think I made slight improvement in speed, but not more than 10%, without sacrifising anything.

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on November 02, 2006, 07:06:38 PM
11: oh right transparency does take a lot of cpu I forgot about that. you should stop using it. the only thing that needs to be see through is the ic, right?
11: I tried removin transparency but improvement was only about 20%. Not worth it.

I would second that transparency is not critical.  With size ten traces you can still see them under passive components.  IC's, trannies, and anything else that might be large should remain transparent on just outlines, but everything else can just use large traces underneath.  20% improvement in speed may not seem worth it, but every little bit counts.  I would love to see the G32 gfx when you get the time to utilize it.

thanks!
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: para on November 02, 2006, 07:14:25 PM
very cool did you post the new version up on your site yet?

"there are over 2 billion of possible combinations" i only ever get 2 different shapes? then after 2 it just stays that shape i can't even get the first shape back? maybe you already fixed it? i'll check later

20% is a lot if added to the 10% you said you added. to me it would be worth it. maybe send me the version with no trans?

as for replicating? you will probably have to use layouts with a ton of junk like mine i guess : )

the pot size was just a little thing it doesn't really matter, when i have stuff with 5 or more pots i just run the wire to a little "text" saying the pot value and don't even put in a pot image. i do a lot of synth module stuff and things with a lot of controls so that space gets used up very fast. the average pedal maker won't care about that as much.

do you have a paypal account to make a donation to? or maybe you want a free shirt: http://suchaturnon.com/  if you pay for the shipping?



ok i'm shutting up now i have work to do, your the best,

steven
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on November 03, 2006, 07:16:03 AM
Just a quick question,
Is it really necessary to show the pots?
All I do is label the pads and add notes at the bottom of the parts list as to what the pot value is.
Make it real easy :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 03, 2006, 08:56:23 AM
If you don't show pots you don't need pot component at all :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MikeH on November 03, 2006, 12:33:31 PM
Something that occurred to me:  It would be nice to have a ruler option for rendering pcb images, so that you could make sure the scale is correct.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on November 03, 2006, 01:13:33 PM
bancika-

I would suggest that when you add a new component and the screen pops up so that you can fill in it's value (resistors, capacitors, etc), that you allow more flexibility over the value entered:

Don't REQUIRE a suffix (K, R, M, u, p, n, etc.).  Still have the dropdown for suffixes, but have it default on a blank suffix.  That way I can enter "2k7" (which is what I prefer) instead of "2.7K", and anyone can still use suffixes if they wish.  If I enter "2k7" now, it comes out as "2k7R".  Since the default suffixes tend NOT to be the most commonly used for our applications, I don't believe this would cramp anyone's style.

cheers,
zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 03, 2006, 02:15:52 PM
Ok
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Dragonfly on November 03, 2006, 07:01:31 PM
bancika-

I would suggest that when you add a new component and the screen pops up so that you can fill in it's value (resistors, capacitors, etc), that you allow more flexibility over the value entered:

Don't REQUIRE a suffix (K, R, M, u, p, n, etc.).  Still have the dropdown for suffixes, but have it default on a blank suffix.  That way I can enter "2k7" (which is what I prefer) instead of "2.7K", and anyone can still use suffixes if they wish.  If I enter "2k7" now, it comes out as "2k7R".  Since the default suffixes tend NOT to be the most commonly used for our applications, I don't believe this would cramp anyone's style.

cheers,
zpyder

if you enter it as 2.7k on the table, then you can click on the component twice, enter "change value", and enter 2k7 ...only takes a second or two more...

AC
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: zpyder on November 03, 2006, 07:13:55 PM
if you enter it as 2.7k on the table, then you can click on the component twice, enter "change value", and enter 2k7 ...only takes a second or two more...

Though it's true that you can change the value later, I would say it's highliy inconvienient, and unfortunately takes quite a bit more than a second or two to do... As others have voiced, any projects with a good number of components start to lag pretty heavily.  bancika's talked about things to do about this.  In the meantime, dbl-right clicking and waiting for the window to pop up may only take a few seconds, but unfortunately the redraw that is necessary after you click "OK" can take upwards of 30 seconds.  For a project with, say, 20 resistors, that could be 20 x 33 sec worst case... or 660 seconds :: 11 minutes.  Even if it was half that much - even a quarter that much I guess, I'd still say that's quite a headache...

zpyder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on November 03, 2006, 10:51:38 PM
By the way, it's been a while since someone recommended feature/component. C'mon guys  :icon_mrgreen:

Ok here is a nice easy one.
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/gnd.jpg)

A nice little "Ground symbol" like above instead of routing wires back to the board from off board components.
It can get a bit messy when you have a pot or three on the other side of the board from where your ground connections are.

Once again thanks for a great program!

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on November 03, 2006, 11:03:07 PM
if you enter it as 2.7k on the table, then you can click on the component twice, enter "change value", and enter 2k7 ...only takes a second or two more...

Though it's true that you can change the value later, I would say it's highliy inconvienient, and unfortunately takes quite a bit more than a second or two to do... As others have voiced, any projects with a good number of components start to lag pretty heavily.  bancika's talked about things to do about this.  In the meantime, dbl-right clicking and waiting for the window to pop up may only take a few seconds, but unfortunately the redraw that is necessary after you click "OK" can take upwards of 30 seconds.  For a project with, say, 20 resistors, that could be 20 x 33 sec worst case... or 660 seconds :: 11 minutes.  Even if it was half that much - even a quarter that much I guess, I'd still say that's quite a headache...

zpyder

Better still, leave it blank and type in the symbol when you type in the value when you first place the component.
Having drop down lists with all the component values would slow things down even more than it is.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: markm on November 03, 2006, 11:29:34 PM
If you don't show pots you don't need pot component at all :icon_rolleyes:

Exactly!  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: coreybox on November 06, 2006, 12:35:24 AM
Something that occurred to me:  It would be nice to have a ruler option for rendering pcb images, so that you could make sure the scale is correct.

This is something i would like too.

(also, thanks for doing the program at all for us!)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on November 10, 2006, 02:32:55 AM
LDR's could be useful for some too.

Thanks
pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: joelap on November 10, 2006, 01:00:29 PM
Really awesome program!  Used it two nights ago for a board layout, and I cant wait to test the layout in the real world.  Quick suggestion: when I did the layout, I started from the bottom left corner, and left myself tons of space just in case.  When I went to shrink it down, it started shrinking from the bottom, is there a way to size it so I can lower the board dimensions from the top instead of bottom?  Sorry if there is, it was my first go with it two days ago, just curious if theres a way?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MikeH on November 10, 2006, 01:25:32 PM
Really awesome program!  Used it two nights ago for a board layout, and I cant wait to test the layout in the real world.  Quick suggestion: when I did the layout, I started from the bottom left corner, and left myself tons of space just in case.  When I went to shrink it down, it started shrinking from the bottom, is there a way to size it so I can lower the board dimensions from the top instead of bottom?  Sorry if there is, it was my first go with it two days ago, just curious if theres a way?

You can just select all with cntl-A (or is it alt-A?) and move everything up to the upper left corner.  Then resize the board.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 10, 2006, 05:35:51 PM
yep
cheers ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on November 10, 2006, 08:12:22 PM
hey bancika!

i don't know if this has been talked about (don't feel like going through the behemoth thread here), but i found something that i thought might be better.

when you close, it brings up the box with the "Continue without saving?" YES, NO.
in my opinion, i think it would be better, and closer to other programs that we're used to, if it was something like "Would you like to save?"

i've just accidentally clicked NO a few times because it's what i'm accustomed to.  what do you think, everyone?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 10, 2006, 08:24:06 PM
no problem
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on November 11, 2006, 09:53:50 PM
Bancika, I only have 1 inductor right now it's a Dunlop ECB-156.
Also a couple of photocouplers (I think someone mentioned them ???) 1 is a Vactec VTL5C2 the other is a Clairex CLM6000.
Look at the bottom of this pic for the sizes http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Richard-Boop-RLBJR65/VERO_TOOLS?full=1
Not enough info to mess with unless someone else chimes in I guess.

Something that occurred to me:  It would be nice to have a ruler option for rendering pcb images, so that you could make sure the scale is correct.

This is something i would like too.

(also, thanks for doing the program at all for us!)

Me too!

Richard

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 12, 2006, 04:59:41 AM
Bancika, I only have 1 inductor right now it's a Dunlop ECB-156.
Also a couple of photocouplers (I think someone mentioned them ???) 1 is a Vactec VTL5C2 the other is a Clairex CLM6000.
Look at the bottom of this pic for the sizes http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Richard-Boop-RLBJR65/VERO_TOOLS?full=1
Not enough info to mess with unless someone else chimes in I guess.

Something that occurred to me:  It would be nice to have a ruler option for rendering pcb images, so that you could make sure the scale is correct.

This is something i would like too.

(also, thanks for doing the program at all for us!)

Me too!

Richard

Pic would be enough, tnx :icon_mrgreen:
Ok for ruler!
Bye
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on November 12, 2006, 10:00:29 AM
Oh Yes indeed.....the ruler would be very cool  8)
I get PM's up the wazoo about scaling my PCB's in my gallery.
Great Idea!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on November 12, 2006, 10:00:57 AM
The older Halo and stacked type wah inductors have a bigger footprint because they have a square base. It's been a while but I think they would take up the whole 6X6 area with the pins at the corners. The Fasel inductors are different too they sit on their side.
Cool bunch of wah inductor pics. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.castledine/greenfuz/inductor.html There is a nice mods section and project page there as well.

How hard would it be to create a misc circle and misc square / rectangel? Then you could select the right size and add pads where you need them. That would be usefull for oddball stuff like wah inductors, photo couplers, ldrs, huge caps, cooling fins, transformers, etc. etc.

Thanks,
Richard
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: keko on November 15, 2006, 11:34:34 AM
What about the confirm dialog that shows when closing an unsaved document?

The standard behaviour is to ask wethere the user would like to save the document, and that gets the "yes" button preselected. Here is the other way around.

Changing this would work nicely with the Save As option/dialog,  because you could close an unsaved document, get the option to save it first, and use a different name if you want to.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: choklitlove on November 15, 2006, 09:51:52 PM
What about the confirm dialog that shows when closing an unsaved document?

The standard behaviour is to ask wethere the user would like to save the document, and that gets the "yes" button preselected. Here is the other way around.

Changing this would work nicely with the Save As option/dialog,  because you could close an unsaved document, get the option to save it first, and use a different name if you want to.
he said he would change that already, couple posts up.  he says "no problem"
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rockgardenlove on November 27, 2006, 04:23:46 AM
I may have suggested this a while back...but how about a box layout thing to print of a drilling template?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 27, 2006, 11:00:54 AM
yes, and I plan to do it, but that's rathere completely new application than just mod to existing one. Unfortunately, I don't have time these days. Most time I spend on faculty lessons. But I plan to do is ASAP
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: modsquad on December 01, 2006, 10:58:45 AM
Somewhere in the program there is a file path that is hard coded to reference it on C:, I install all my applications on the D:.  Wouldn't work the first time, I then reinstalled to default C: and works fine.  You might want to change it.

Stan
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2006, 11:51:31 AM
I doubth that it's the cause of problem because I have it installed on D. What do you mean by "wouldn't work", any message error?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on December 01, 2006, 09:02:06 PM
my hard drive is F, and i haven't ran into any problems.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: modsquad on December 02, 2006, 12:25:07 PM
It said it couldn't find or get access to a file.  Once I reinstalled it it worked fine.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hank reynolds 3rd on December 05, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Hi,
many thanks for the great software Bancika? ?
One query...Is it typical for the software to run a little sluggish on more complex designs ??
I haven't used it for a while,and the new update (with the addition of pots etc) has allowed me to finish off a couple of thins,but some files are having a tendency to freeze up,on loading,
many thanks Again


Sam
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2006, 02:15:03 PM
yeah, it's kinda slow. Especialy in latest versions. Don't have time to optimize now, but I hope it will be better. If program freezes just give it some time
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on December 05, 2006, 10:01:45 PM
is there a chance that the traces turning red when selected will come back?  that was really handy, and the newest doesn't seem to do it.  should it be?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2006, 04:33:52 AM
yeah, it should go back...I'll look
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hank reynolds 3rd on December 06, 2006, 08:18:36 PM
thanks bancika....this softwares pretty cool though,beats a pencil and paper for neatness anyways :P:P
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on December 10, 2006, 05:16:39 PM
Just installed it from your website but got problems running it.

Once installed I doulbe click to open...

2 error boxes appear one over the top of the other...

top one says 'No active document'

bottom one says 'Failed to set data for " '

if I click ok on each box the program appears but with a box that says 'No active document'  I click ok but it re-appears and it just keeps coming back.

Is this just me?  I really want to use this program too so this is kinda not good
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 10, 2006, 06:25:27 PM
that shouldn't happen  :icon_rolleyes:
where did you install it (that shouldn't make difference, but just in case)
try clicking on program file directly, not the shortcut (shouldn't make difference either)
I don't have a clue
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on December 10, 2006, 06:38:05 PM
I installed it to a folder on the root of C:  Couldnt let it instal in the defualt directory as its a work PC and the IT take backups of certain folders so I put it somewhere different.  Cant see that affecting it.  I have gone direct instead of using the shorcut.  I dont know if something hasn't got installed correctly because I havent got admin rights on this pc possibly?  Dont know if it has failed to input anything into the registry or something due to that.  I will try it at home but I dont finish work for 6 hours would have been nice to play with it
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 10, 2006, 07:04:56 PM
hmmm, it probably is related with admin rights. But it doesn't write anything to registry or any other folder except for installation folder. I think that something's messing with with it while trying to execute
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on December 10, 2006, 07:18:27 PM
I thought that but at the same time I woul have thought it should have worked.  Just to rule out anything silly with the install.

Inside the Folder 'DIY LAyout Creator'  there are 4 Files

File.ico                       3KB
unins000.exe           626KB
unins000.dat               5KB
DIYLayout.exe          599KB

Plus a folder 'Tutorials'


This just contains a HTML file and some GIFS.

Is there anything apparently missing?  If not I will put it down to IT locking something down
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 11, 2006, 09:20:18 AM
only EXE file is needed to run in properly
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on December 11, 2006, 03:16:07 PM
Put it on my PC at home this morning and it ran like a charm  :icon_biggrin:

Just got to get a feel for it now lol

I am thinking that the PC at work is just locked down quite tight at the moment.  Some idiot went on loads of sites downloading this and that even though I warned him not to.  Next thing we know machine is full of god knows what.  Now you can hardly do anything on here  :(

Nice piece of software though.  It'll save me using a pencil and rubbing out mistakes all the time
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hank reynolds 3rd on December 12, 2006, 01:57:37 AM
I agree with how easy it is to use....plus its easy to change errors etc,and can make the PCB miles smaller than with a permenant marker pen
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: alfafalfa on December 22, 2006, 05:13:31 AM
Hi Bancika,

Worked with it for the first time to make a pcb. It's a terrific tool you built, this make designing so much easier !!

Thanks for sharing this with us.
I have one suggestion , don't know if it's actually in there but I would like the possibility to adjust solderpads and traces in width. I would like especially bigger solderpads to solder connectors or potmeters
the larger copper area would give a more reliable connection. If you unsolder parts the trace often comes off if are not very careful.

Best wishes, Alf
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on December 22, 2006, 05:46:30 AM
Hi Bancika,

Worked with it for the first time to make a pcb. It's a terrific tool you built, this make designing so much easier !!

Thanks for sharing this with us.
I have one suggestion , don't know if it's actually in there but I would like the possibility to adjust solderpads and traces in width. I would like especially bigger solderpads to solder connectors or potmeters
the larger copper area would give a more reliable connection. If you unsolder parts the trace often comes off if are not very careful.

Best wishes, Alf

Hi Alf, those options are there allready.
When you make a new pad or trace the new component dialog box comes up.
In this box you have the option to change the component value, for pads the default value is "15" and "5" for traces.
These values will stay at the changed values for following new pads and traces.
This is really only an issue when creating a new component (ie transistor) the pads stay at the changed value.
To overcome this you need to place a new pad and change the value to the required size then delete it then place the new component.
Hope that makes sense!!

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: alfafalfa on December 22, 2006, 06:03:54 AM
Thanks Pyrop,

I got it , didn't know it was in there it works like a dream.
Silly of me to think people wouldn't have thought of it before ! :icon_redface:

Alf
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on December 22, 2006, 06:17:46 AM
Thanks Pyrop,

Alf
NO worries,

I usually use the default "15" for component pads & "18 - 20" for wiring pads,
and I use "8" for the majority of traces, "6" for diagonals going close to pads and "12" for ground traces.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on December 22, 2006, 09:02:13 AM

Help please. I'm having a devil of a time producing an image of a pcb and getting it the right size.

When I "render PnP" I get something that is way too large. The gif image is yet larger than the PCB and is an irregular shape making it impossible to just resize it according to any calculation. You can't just punch the "keep ratio" button on whatever I'm resizing it with because the gif file doesn't have the same proportions as the PCB. So, the process is one of resize, print, measure, resize, print, measure, then start on the other plane resize, print, measure rinse and repeat.

Things that would help:
The program output correctly sized PCBs.
The gif file be some fixed dimension larger than the PCB on both planes, say .1" each way.
The gif have no border larger than the PCB.

Or maybe I am just missing something really dumb and obvious. Thanks for any suggestions.

Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 22, 2006, 07:11:49 PM
try to open/print output file with any more advanced program then MS paint, I don't have problems with photoshop, but people reported it's working OK with free GIMP also IIRC
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on December 22, 2006, 08:04:11 PM

Okay, so what could I be missing?

I'm not using MS Paint and have tried working with this using several programs. The problem is not that the any of the programs that I'm opening the gif with are doing anything bad to it. The problem is that the resulting gif has a border that is inconvenient until I crop it out. and it just isn't the correct size in the first place. It's something over twice the size it should be.

Is it normal to need to resize the result from "render PnP?"
When I "Print PnP" I get an image that is sized correctly.

Thanks
Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on December 22, 2006, 08:30:28 PM
I change the print settings and print them at 36%.
Works perfectly for me!!
I use Paint Shop Pro 7 by the way

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rockgardenlove on December 30, 2006, 04:23:47 PM
Btw, does this program run *really* slowly for anybody else?  When I use it there's a second or so delay from when I click something and when something actually happens.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 30, 2006, 04:57:35 PM
Yeah, I don't know which feature I added lately made it work that slow, but it is :icon_sad:
I still didn't catch some time to work on it, been very busy lately.
My plan is to completely rewrite drawing routines, but it takes a lot of time "at once", I hope it will be soon enough
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JimRayden on January 06, 2007, 06:07:32 PM
Ooh, cool to see new features, haven't downloaded an update in a while.

Is it just me or are the tube socket pads actually very awkwardly placed? Just don't line up in a circle.

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 07, 2007, 09:12:41 AM
that's because every connection must be aligned to grid, I placed them in grid rather than circle..
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Izzy on January 19, 2007, 10:09:14 PM
I have one question, how does this software work with making PCB?

I mean the resistor and capacitor gaps are bigger than a real world resistors and caps. So when we render the Image I think its going to give the same gap size, right?
So PCB will have same big gaps.
Doesnot that mean there will be some open resistor and capacitor leads?

Or is there other way?

Can you show my any PCB's mad from this software?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on January 19, 2007, 10:40:56 PM
I have one question, how does this software work with making PCB?

I mean the resistor and capacitor gaps are bigger than a real world resistors and caps. So when we render the Image I think its going to give the same gap size, right?
So PCB will have same big gaps.
Doesnot that mean there will be some open resistor and capacitor leads?

Or is there other way?

Can you show my any PCB's mad from this software?
Here is one
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/jfv_pcb.jpg)
and another
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/5b_3.jpg)
From memory I think I printed them at 36% to get the right resolution.

Std 1/4watt resistors laying flat are 4 holes long i.e. have 2 holes left in between the resistor leads.
Most caps (not electros) are 3 holes long except the bigger mylars which are 4 holes (0.1uF & up).

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Izzy on January 19, 2007, 10:42:35 PM
Can I see the top view?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on January 20, 2007, 01:35:11 AM
Top view of 2nd board
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/dgrunt.jpg)

Top view of a Blackfire board
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/BFIRE.jpg)
PCB for Blackfire
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/bfire_pcb.jpg)
Layout for Blackfire
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/pyrop/bfire_lo.jpg)

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JimRayden on January 20, 2007, 07:14:23 AM
Changing the size of the solder pad of a component. When the program listed the automatically created solder pads, I could change their value, now I can't seem to be able to.

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JimRayden on January 20, 2007, 12:41:07 PM
Looks like it's only the tube socket that has pads attached to it. Other components do create new editable pads.

[EDIT] I don't know if it's been addressed but it seems like traces don't turn red when selected.

---------
Jimbo
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Izzy on January 20, 2007, 10:45:55 PM
I think you are usign those big resistors.
I bought this $14.99 resistor pack from radio shack. They are kinda small.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on January 21, 2007, 04:54:51 AM
I think you are usign those big resistors.
I bought this $14.99 resistor pack from radio shack. They are kinda small.
No, I used standard 1/4watt resistors.
You probably can get smaller 1/4watt resistors but if you have smaller one's they are most likely 1/8watt.
With smaller one's, you may get away with a resistor length of just 3 holes on your layouts i.e. 1 hole in between the leads..

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on January 21, 2007, 11:16:31 AM
Pyrop, that's a nice clean layout!

Really clear close up pic. At first I thought the resistors were 1/2 watt, but if you compair them to the diodes you can tell they are 1/4 watt. Izzy, you have the 1/4 metal film resistors? Those are a bit smaller than the carbon film. 3 holes? Maybe... I'd just stick with 4 to be safe though :icon_wink:

I've been slowly re doing some of my layouts. After etching a few I'm thinking why the H--L did I make that so darn small. The smallest enclosure I use is a 1590B, with 20 - 22 holes wide you get a board that is the perfect width, and if you can keep it 12 - 14 holes deep there is plenty of room for jackes, etc.
So I'm spacing some stuff out making mounting pads etc.




Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Izzy on January 28, 2007, 11:21:47 PM
Bancika, why does this software gets slow and slow when you have  more component?
 
When you first start a layout its working fine then after few components are added its gets slower, again after few more components, it gets slower. And there comes a time that this software becomes a pain in the ass to work with almost taking 5-10 sec for each function. I get so pissed.  :-\
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pyrop on January 29, 2007, 02:50:22 AM
Bancika, why does this software gets slow and slow when you have more component?
 
When you first start a layout its working fine then after few components are added its gets slower, again after few more components, it gets slower. And there comes a time that this software becomes a pain in the ass to work with almost taking 5-10 sec for each function. I get so pissed.  :-\

Yeah that is a problem with this software unfortunately most likely from the way it was originally written i.e. a lot of things were added along the way with many updates.
If read a couple of pages or so back, Bancika says he is planning to rewrite the whole program but doesn't have the time at the moment and this is also why I believe there has been no updates for a while.
Once you know what you need to write into code you can do it in a more efficient way & therefore the program will run more efficiently.
But for now we all just have to put up with it.

Tips to help!


pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: pi22seven on January 30, 2007, 10:49:59 PM
I would kill for a Mac version of this. Just joking about the "kill" thing. Mostly.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: KerryF on January 30, 2007, 10:59:26 PM
One probablem I found with this... I went to build a circuit I etched from here and realized that the IC holes were WAY too far apart and not the correct size.  I managed to work around this, but it was a pain.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 31, 2007, 06:05:43 AM
that's strange because all holes should be aligned to 2.54mm (0.1") grid. IC holes should be 5mm apart. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: southtown on January 31, 2007, 06:09:33 AM
is there a way to turn the board around so the strips are running the other way?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 31, 2007, 09:36:19 AM
at the moment no, but I haven't seen vertical strips on layout before :icon_eek:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on January 31, 2007, 11:08:39 AM
One probablem I found with this... I went to build a circuit I etched from here and realized that the IC holes were WAY too far apart and not the correct size.  I managed to work around this, but it was a pain.

I've never had a problem like this.....strange....   :icon_confused:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: brett on February 05, 2007, 01:34:02 AM
Hi
I just downlloaded the software  I've been a PCBExpress user for a few years and didn't think I needed anything else..

But this software is fantastic.
Thanks so much, Bancika. :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ANDYEFFECT on February 06, 2007, 01:32:19 PM
I placed in the site two new PCB, Marshall Bluesbreaker and Marshall DriveMaster with control of tone of the Bluesbreaker.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 06, 2007, 02:19:52 PM
Got it, tnx :icon_wink:
We've reached to about 230 layouts in gallery. Great work guys, thanks to all who uploaded their layouts, keep 'em coming :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: southtown on February 07, 2007, 07:54:14 AM
has anyone got this working on ubuntu?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on February 07, 2007, 08:06:35 AM
it's windows only as far as I know. It will work on a virtual windows machine using, qemu (http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/), but it's slow, or at least it is on my machine.
You might be able to get it running using wine or crossover office.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: blanik on February 14, 2007, 03:09:37 AM
One probablem I found with this... I went to build a circuit I etched from here and realized that the IC holes were WAY too far apart and not the correct size.  I managed to work around this, but it was a pain.

most probably a wrong setting of the image in Photoshop or whatever your using... maybe you resized the gif and didn't make shure the (DPI resolution X image size) was correct, it most likely was interpreted wrongly by your graphic app...

R.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on February 14, 2007, 11:36:49 AM
One probablem I found with this... I went to build a circuit I etched from here and realized that the IC holes were WAY too far apart and not the correct size.  I managed to work around this, but it was a pain.

most probably a wrong setting of the image in Photoshop or whatever your using... maybe you resized the gif and didn't make shure the (DPI resolution X image size) was correct, it most likely was interpreted wrongly by your graphic app...

R.

Let me type this again, your program outputs a gif image that is approximately 3 time larger than the board is supposed to be. It needs to be reduced by whatever program is used to panel or print it. A reduction of about 37% works, but is not perfect because the gif is larger than the intended PCB and the "border area" is not to scale. To get it just right requires some stretching. This is not an artifact of the programs we are using to manipulate it, the border is there in the original output and it is overlarge right from the beginning. "Print PnP" does not have this problem, it's output is the correct size, but is of course printed on paper and can't be paneled. It would be a tremendous improvement if that border did not exist then the image could be resized and no additional work needed.

If you like, I can render a PnP and email it to you. Because obviously we are talking past each other. If you were to say, "yes, the output is large you need to scale" I could accept that. But you seem to be insisting that this is not the case and I cannot understand how that is.

Weird finding myself agreeing 1800#^%$#%^

Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 14, 2007, 05:32:40 PM
Hmmm, Testing I did was in photoshop and everything was in scale. Which software are you using?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Papa_lazerous on February 14, 2007, 05:57:20 PM
Hmmm, Testing I did was in photoshop and everything was in scale. Which software are you using?

Works perfect size for me.  I print with photoshop too
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 14, 2007, 06:50:07 PM
most programs (cheap) don't pay attention to actual GIF file resolution but print using default (300dpi I think)
photoshop does it right
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on February 14, 2007, 08:15:58 PM
Hmmm, Testing I did was in photoshop and everything was in scale. Which software are you using?

I have used everything I can get my hands on, including photoshop. How can I express this so that you can understand me. THE IMAGE ITSELF IS WAY LARGE. Regardless of what software I use to process it, the image itself is way out of scale. It is the same size in everything I've tried. Everything I use requires a 37% reduction and then a bit of adjustment because the scaling is affected by the border. Why would the program matter? What am I not understanding that causes you to think that the program used would make a difference?

It's manageable, but a nuisance.

Ron


Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on February 14, 2007, 08:28:17 PM
I think I understand what Ron is saying here.
If he prints his PCB graphics without doing it from with in the DIY Creator program, it prints very large.
I have the exact same issue, I print mine through Photoshop too.
One thing I have noticed is, if you do not alter the image at all while in photoshop, it will print fine.
Once the image is altered, saved and reopened to print, it comes out HUGE!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: blanik on February 15, 2007, 01:41:06 AM
Hmmm, Testing I did was in photoshop and everything was in scale. Which software are you using?
I have used everything I can get my hands on, including photoshop. How can I express this so that you can understand me. THE IMAGE ITSELF IS WAY LARGE. Regardless of what software I use to process it, the image itself is way out of scale. It is the same size in everything I've tried. Everything I use requires a 37% reduction and then a bit of adjustment because the scaling is affected by the border. Why would the program matter? What am I not understanding that causes you to think that the program used would make a difference?
It's manageable, but a nuisance.
Ron

ok guys, graphic design 101...

there are two thing that define the size of an image,

1- the actual size (inches X inches) or (pixel X pixel) or (mm X mm)

2a- The resolution... DPI  (Dot Per Inch), screen resolution is 72 dpi (meaning 72 pixels side by side is an inch long) all images on the web (the images that makes the background of a page, icons, pictures) are usually at 72 dpi...
{test: (download a couple of random images on your computer with right-click and open them in Photoshop then click on IMAGE then sub-menu IMAGE SIZE... you'll see the image size indicated in inches X inches (or pixels X pixels) and under that you'll see the resolution of the image (72 dpi usually on the web)}

2b- For printing the resolution is (usually) home printer : 150 dpi (roughly twice web resolution) professionnal printer 300 dpi and i even worked on 600 dpi stuff for posters or special printing processes...

there's also 2 functions to resize the image in photoshop :
A) while keeping the resolution intact, wich means the image has to be resampled, where you can loose definition if you oversize the original or make it physically smaller...
B) you can also resize the image without resampling it wich means the resolution will vary according to the resize your doing...         

example:
-original image is  4" X 4" at 300 dpi, you double it's size (resample checked) it'll become 8" X 8" at 300 dpi meaning that you will have lost quality because the computer had to "invent" the missing pixels when it double the image...
-same image if you uncheck "resample" function and double it's size, it'll become 8" X 8" at 150 dpi wich means it's basicly the exact same image but it will be interpreted differently by the computer, only the size reference have changed...

sooooooo it brings us to DIY Layout Creator Inc.  :icon_wink:,
when you render a pnp, it come out at roughly 200 dpi (odd but very workable), when you render the layout (with parts and list) it comes out at 72 dpi (the creator of the program knew those layouts would be posted on the web  :D)

soo back to our pnp image it comes out at 200 dpi, if you open it in photoshop it's coing to look larger than the life size of the board (if the pnp would come out at 72 dpi it would look exactly the same size on screen and in real life but the printing would be crappy)
but photoshop makes the difference between resolution and size and if you print it from photoshop, it's going to be the right size at high resolution (unless you toyed with the image and did something you didn't know about  :o)

OTOH if you opened it in some other application or even Explorer and printed it from there, the app might just have seen pixels and interpreted them at 72 dpi, so your 200 dpi image will become gigantic...

fewww, i hope this wasn't too confusing (it shure is trying to explain it in words  :icon_redface:)

R.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on February 15, 2007, 10:16:34 AM
I think it all makes sense.
Nice job blanik, seems this may be quite helpful.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on February 15, 2007, 11:23:09 AM

Confusing? Heck no. Makes much more sense than "it should be perfect in photoshop." Thanks.

Of course the problem is that the image will / must be manipulated or there's no point in using photoshop in the first place. If one just wanted one pcb you could press "print PnP" and all's good and the size is right and everything. Is there a picture format that defines the size and has suitable resolution that DIYLC could export to without being a pain? I feel pretty awkward asking for improvements in freeware that otherwise works well.

Have I mentioned that you are incredibly cool for creating this program and putting up with the questions and issues around it.

Thank you.

Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 16, 2007, 06:26:30 AM
As I said before, I have big plans for this piece of software (none of them is making it non-free :)), but just couldn't find time for it. A month ago I found a job and I have even less time. Drawing routines will (must) be completely redone with some other technique. This one is the most complicated and slow I can think of. I've done everything by hand. I'm also thinking of moving to Java or even making it web application...
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: markm on February 16, 2007, 11:46:17 AM
As I said before, I have big plans for this piece of software (none of them is making it non-free :)), but just couldn't find time for it. A month ago I found a job and I have even less time. Drawing routines will (must) be completely redone with some other technique. This one is the most complicated and slow I can think of. I've done everything by hand. I'm also thinking of moving to Java or even making it web application...
Cheers

Bancika,
Keep us informed on this please, your program is AMAZING!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on February 16, 2007, 07:15:24 PM
Marks right, it's AMAZING! 

A web based program would be cool, might give some people more access to it.
For example it would be great for anyone who works in an office and can't load a program on the office PC but can get on-line.
Not that I'm promoting screwing off at work but... we all know it happens anyway :icon_wink:

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Santi on February 28, 2007, 04:32:21 AM
Hello,

First of all let me joint together to congratulate bancika about his labour for the DIYers community, thanks a lot friend. ;)

Well and talkinng about resolutions, photoshop and DIY Layout Creator ...... I don't know if I have understand blanik's explanation, what resolution is right to make a picture (*.jpeg) with the real size aspects with regard to the 72dpi of an "original" layout?

Thanks in advance guys, keep Rock'n!!!

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 28, 2007, 02:59:51 PM
good news, especially for non Windows users. Not long ago I started working with Java. Plan is to write DIYLC completely from scratch in Java. Of course, I plan to use same concept so existing files would be compatible with new version. It will be faster (Java has native support for transparent drawing) and it will work on any machine with Java installed, non OS dependent. As soon as I master Java enough I'll dig in.

Cheers.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on March 01, 2007, 01:04:29 AM
good news, especially for non Windows users. Not long ago I started working with Java. Plan is to write DIYLC completely from scratch in Java. Of course, I plan to use same concept so existing files would be compatible with new version. It will be faster (Java has native support for transparent drawing) and it will work on any machine with Java installed, non OS dependent. As soon as I master Java enough I'll dig in.

Cheers.

WooHoo...
Thanks Bancika your work is appreciated...

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: RLBJR65 on March 01, 2007, 07:06:08 AM
Quote
WooHoo... Thanks Bancika your work is appreciated...
pyrop ;D

I'll second that :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Santi on March 01, 2007, 07:11:42 AM
 GREAT! :o
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on March 01, 2007, 04:58:31 PM
and the first screenshot. Don't laugh, it took me whole evening to make this. :icon_lol: :icon_rolleyes:
(http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc1.gif)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: $uperpuma on March 01, 2007, 05:25:23 PM
pretty :) I want to make a layout for some food...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bluesdevil on March 03, 2007, 01:16:53 AM
Thanks for this easy to use program..... I can even make layouts with it!!! I finally upgraded to the newest version of this and now have a problem. I cannot get a trace to highlight in red, like in the previous version I had. I can click on the pads in the "toolbox" and they become highlighted in red but no change when I try it on the traces. Anybody have the same problem? I'm running it in Windows 2000 Professional.
                 Thanks again!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on March 03, 2007, 02:41:58 AM
I cannot get a trace to highlight in red, like in the previous version I had.
This issue came up a few pages back & they dont highlight red at all in the latest version (18 oct 06).
If it is a problem for you just reinstall an older version.

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bluesdevil on March 03, 2007, 04:10:42 AM
Thanks Pyrop. I went a few pages back before posting, but I guess not far enough.... man, this is a big thread!!
    I was happy with the version I had, but when I tried to work from newer layouts people made I got an error message so I had to change. Hopefully the bug can be worked out later.
    What I do now is click on each trace in the "explorer" window and hit one of the arrow direction buttons below and see what moves.... sometimes takes a bit of time to find the right trace to edit that way, but it works.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on March 04, 2007, 02:38:12 PM
Thanks Pyrop. I went a few pages back before posting, but I guess not far enough.... man, this is a big thread!!
    I was happy with the version I had, but when I tried to work from newer layouts people made I got an error message so I had to change. Hopefully the bug can be worked out later.
    What I do now is click on each trace in the "explorer" window and hit one of the arrow direction buttons below and see what moves.... sometimes takes a bit of time to find the right trace to edit that way, but it works.

Right click on the trace itself & it should highlight in the "explorer" window....(might take a few seconds)

pyrop ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on March 14, 2007, 02:30:21 AM
hey bancika.  have you ever thought about making a schematic software, or maybe add that to the functions of the current one?  i know that you are currently developing the Java based one, but maybe this could be something to think about while you're making it.  maybe a schematic mode built in.  i know there are schematic softwares out there, but i really like your style.  you also know what it needs to include and what it doesn't.

seems simple enough.  if you could design the DIY layout creator, a simple schematic one seems like it would take you an hour or so.  nothing fancy.  what do you think?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on March 14, 2007, 06:10:04 AM
well, engine itself wouldn't be too hard to do I guess, but all those components...
there are many things to consider in such software...I'll think about it but I wouldn't add this to current version. When Java version is complete I'll try to add this too. I'd make it separate program rather than part of this app
Cheers and thanks for ideas.
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: choklitlove on March 14, 2007, 05:20:30 PM
yeah, only do it if you have some free time or something.  it's not a big deal.  we can't wait for whatever you pump out next.  after all is done, it would be neat to put in like a DIY software suite or something.  or maybe one software with different modes.

that would be the ultimate DIY tool.  awesome.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on March 14, 2007, 06:53:01 PM
It appears that I'll soon go to USA for 6 months...I hope I'll have spare time to work on this. I'll be hardly making any pedal/amp projects so I'll probably work on this and practice my Java.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ambulancevoice on March 23, 2007, 03:04:15 AM
any chance of getting the program for a Mac OS X?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on March 23, 2007, 05:18:51 AM
yeah, Java version will work on any OS with java installed
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ambulancevoice on March 23, 2007, 08:39:08 AM
excellent thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ambulancevoice on March 23, 2007, 08:44:03 AM
where can i get the java version?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ulysses on March 23, 2007, 09:06:50 AM
hey bro

thanks for the app :) i use it quite a bit for personal layouts and some public ones i have posted on my layouts page

one feature i really miss is the ability to drag over an area of the board and have it select the parts that i have dragged over

also - right selecting parts can be quite difficult. ie, not enough "hit area" for the object to be selected. i find this is much more noticable when there are many components on the board and not so noticable when there are not many parts on the board. feels like the program is scanning for mouse movements and becomes more cumbersom when the board is heavily populated.

other than that, i love it.. if you are writing it from scratch you may want to add the following features

- user addable parts - user can add a jpg as a set size part - i used photoshop to add a halo inductor - id be happy to send you the psd if you want it - check my vox v846 wah layout in my gallery
- export in full page scale - ie, export letter and a4 page sizes - then the user can print the correct scale straight to their printer

cheers
ulysses
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on March 23, 2007, 12:11:31 PM
java version is just at early stage of development so it's not ready for public (not even close).
ulysses, I'll definitely think about adding libraries in next version
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: alextheian-alex on March 25, 2007, 10:53:52 PM
What did you use to write the WIN version?  if the source code is available, i could try to get it to compile on a Mac... depending on the GUI, etc.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on March 26, 2007, 04:12:15 AM
It's written in Delphi which has only compilers for linux and windows and this app can be compiled only on win. I can give you source if you need it though  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: alextheian-alex on March 26, 2007, 01:10:26 PM
It's written in Delphi which has only compilers for linux and windows and this app can be compiled only on win. I can give you source if you need it though  :icon_mrgreen:

Well, I have a Delphi compiler for PowerPC that will inegrate with Xcode that I can give it a shot in... only thing is that until I get my bummed hard drive replaced, I don't have any of my Apple software development packages installed, but if you want to send the code over to ALEX (at) ALETHEIAN (dot) com, I'll work on it whenever I get my system back in shape.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ANDYEFFECT on March 30, 2007, 01:52:33 PM
where it has PCB GT2 format DIY Layout Creator ?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rockgardenlove on April 12, 2007, 04:08:44 PM
I was just wondering, has the slow speed issue been resolved?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on April 12, 2007, 05:35:57 PM
nope. Performance upgrade requires changing technology for drawing scene. I don't want to make some major changes to current version because I plan to move on to Java anyway (as far as this app is concerned). Still don't have time to do it... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: hw2nw on April 17, 2007, 04:38:01 AM
I'd love an OSX version. Maybe I'll have to get Parallels up and running on my MacBook so I can run this.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: calculating_infinity on April 21, 2007, 05:13:09 AM
Sad to say, I have Windows Vista (was the only option at best buy) ::) and I am having problems running DIY Layout Creator.   :icon_cry:  Anyone get it to work with Vista?  I'm trying to do something productive while I cannot solder.    :icon_biggrin:  Sorry for the 3x emoticons

edited to say these are the 2 errors that I got: "Failed to set Data for"" and "No Active Document"

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: pyrop on April 21, 2007, 10:25:47 PM
Sad to say, I have Windows Vista (was the only option at best buy) ::) and I am having problems running DIY Layout Creator.   :icon_cry:  Anyone get it to work with Vista?  I'm trying to do something productive while I cannot solder.    :icon_biggrin:  Sorry for the 3x emoticons

edited to say these are the 2 errors that I got: "Failed to set Data for"" and "No Active Document"


32 or 64 bit version?
It may help someone help you.

paulw ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: calculating_infinity on April 22, 2007, 12:43:36 AM
Hey my OS is a 32-bit one.  Hope you can help!

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: remmelt on April 23, 2007, 10:18:00 AM
{test: (download a couple of random images on your computer with right-click and open them in Photoshop then click on IMAGE then sub-menu IMAGE SIZE... you'll see the image size indicated in inches X inches (or pixels X pixels) and under that you'll see the resolution of the image (72 dpi usually on the web)}

Your explanation is spot-on, but this part is what confuses a lot of people so I thought I'd explain a little further.

For pictures on the web, THERE IS NO RESOLUTION IN DPI THAT MAKES SENSE. A picture that is going to be displayed on a screen has pixels and pixels only. Inches don't come into play. For example, a picture that is 800x600 pixels large will be displayed on a monitor at 800 by 600 pixels. There is no inherent DPI. It's not like us web users are measuring our displays (the inch part of the DPI equation), is it?

The confusion is furthered by Photoshop and similar software that is geared for print. Take an image, open it in Photoshop and it will tell you a DPI value. This is ridiculous. Again, there is no inherent DPI value in a pixel by pixel image. What's more, you can CHOOSE YOUR OWN! It's almost unbelievable!

An example: let's say we have a 300x300 pixels image. This image is displayed on a screen as 300x300. Some screens have larger real pixels, so the image might be larger or smaller, but that's besides the point. It's just 300x300.
Now we're going to print the image. Photoshop will be helpful. We can choose a desired print size, 10 inch by 10 inch, for example, and PS will tell us the DPI value: 300 pixels / 10 inches = 30 DPI. This is very low, the printed picture quality will be bad.
Now let's set the print size to 1 inch by 1 inch. This will increase the DPI to 300 (300pixels/1inch) and the quality will be pro, BUT WITH A SMALLER PRINTED IMAGE.

What's more: create a new image in Photoshop. Make it 300x300 pixels. Set DPI to 72. This will make the image 300x300 pixels. Now make another new image, again 300x300 pixels, set the DPI to 720. Lo presto, the image is 300x300 pixels. The actual printed image will be tiny, but the thing on screen is the same, and that's what the web users look at.

So, saying an image for the web is good enough if it is in 72 DPI means nothing, except that you're stuck in the print world for ever ;)

(Sorry for the rant, this is one of the most frequent issues I have when communicating with print and graphics people and it's really annoying, mostly because they think they know better. And eh, only one can really know better. Ahem)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: wampcat1 on May 01, 2007, 08:42:36 AM
Sad to say, I have Windows Vista (was the only option at best buy) ::) and I am having problems running DIY Layout Creator.   :icon_cry:  Anyone get it to work with Vista?  I'm trying to do something productive while I cannot solder.    :icon_biggrin:  Sorry for the 3x emoticons

edited to say these are the 2 errors that I got: "Failed to set Data for"" and "No Active Document"



If it's any consolation, I have win vista too. It sucks, I can't stand it. Oh, it's prettier, but does it work better? NO. Many of the programs I used with XP don't work or have a ton of errors with Vista.
Why WHY WHY can't M$ just make a freaking OS that actually works worth a crap?

Also, the windows mail program (replacement for outlook express) stinks on ice. It does have a cute little icon though.  :icon_rolleyes:
Firefox barely works on vista (you have to "run as administrator" and even then it's slow).

Moral of this rant: If you buy a computer, try to get XP with it. If you already have vista, many of us are having the same problems.

*stepping down from soapbox*  :icon_mrgreen:

bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on May 01, 2007, 12:20:44 PM
yeah, I hate when MS introduces "improvements" that make 50% of software useless. I had problems with any of their updates with at least one of my programs: IE7, SP2, Vista...damn :icon_twisted:
Good news is that we got some computers with Vista where I work so I'll be able to test it there and hopefully fix it.
Cheers,
Bancika
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ljkowal on May 05, 2007, 03:46:51 AM
Go for it.  I am new to this DIY and spent 75 for Dip Trace.  Wish you would have made it sooner.  Would have paid you for it!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on May 12, 2007, 11:21:17 AM
how about a tda20** chip when theres more time?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ambulancevoice on May 17, 2007, 09:29:05 AM
is the java version done yet?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: DryRoasted on June 07, 2007, 03:08:30 PM
The threads getting big now so forgive me if its been suggested, but I'd find it realy useful if text inside the boundaries of the "board" in maybe PCB mode appeared on the PnP.

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on June 07, 2007, 04:39:59 PM
Noted ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: DryRoasted on June 09, 2007, 02:49:05 PM
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Aidouri on June 16, 2007, 11:30:08 AM
Hello guys!
I can't find a link to download the DIY Layout Creator
any help please?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on June 16, 2007, 11:31:53 AM
here you go
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=software (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=software)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: soulsonic on June 16, 2007, 08:32:58 PM
Nice! Thanks for doing this, guys!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 04, 2007, 09:35:30 AM
{test: (download a couple of random images on your computer with right-click and open them in Photoshop then click on IMAGE then sub-menu IMAGE SIZE... you'll see the image size indicated in inches X inches (or pixels X pixels) and under that you'll see the resolution of the image (72 dpi usually on the web)}

Your explanation is spot-on, but this part is what confuses a lot of people so I thought I'd explain a little further.

For pictures on the web, THERE IS NO RESOLUTION IN DPI THAT MAKES SENSE. A picture that is going to be displayed on a screen has pixels and pixels only. Inches don't come into play. For example, a picture that is 800x600 pixels large will be displayed on a monitor at 800 by 600 pixels. There is no inherent DPI. It's not like us web users are measuring our displays (the inch part of the DPI equation), is it?

The confusion is furthered by Photoshop and similar software that is geared for print. Take an image, open it in Photoshop and it will tell you a DPI value. This is ridiculous. Again, there is no inherent DPI value in a pixel by pixel image. What's more, you can CHOOSE YOUR OWN! It's almost unbelievable!

An example: let's say we have a 300x300 pixels image. This image is displayed on a screen as 300x300. Some screens have larger real pixels, so the image might be larger or smaller, but that's besides the point. It's just 300x300.
Now we're going to print the image. Photoshop will be helpful. We can choose a desired print size, 10 inch by 10 inch, for example, and PS will tell us the DPI value: 300 pixels / 10 inches = 30 DPI. This is very low, the printed picture quality will be bad.
Now let's set the print size to 1 inch by 1 inch. This will increase the DPI to 300 (300pixels/1inch) and the quality will be pro, BUT WITH A SMALLER PRINTED IMAGE.

What's more: create a new image in Photoshop. Make it 300x300 pixels. Set DPI to 72. This will make the image 300x300 pixels. Now make another new image, again 300x300 pixels, set the DPI to 720. Lo presto, the image is 300x300 pixels. The actual printed image will be tiny, but the thing on screen is the same, and that's what the web users look at.

So, saying an image for the web is good enough if it is in 72 DPI means nothing, except that you're stuck in the print world for ever ;)

(Sorry for the rant, this is one of the most frequent issues I have when communicating with print and graphics people and it's really annoying, mostly because they think they know better. And eh, only one can really know better. Ahem)

+1

amen to that
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 04, 2007, 09:36:33 AM
Oh and I will be happy to help out with a Java version, since that is actually my fulltime occupation (specifically UI side)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hgamal on August 01, 2007, 07:02:40 PM
I am a linux user - using Fedora 7. I have tried to run DIY Layout Creator using wine (without success) and I have got "OLE error 80004001".

Is there a java version? Is there any chance to run this new version under Linux?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: anchovie on August 16, 2007, 01:00:31 PM
Sad to say, I have Windows Vista (was the only option at best buy) ::) and I am having problems running DIY Layout Creator.   :icon_cry:  Anyone get it to work with Vista?  I'm trying to do something productive while I cannot solder.    :icon_biggrin:  Sorry for the 3x emoticons

edited to say these are the 2 errors that I got: "Failed to set Data for"" and "No Active Document"

Just installed this on the new Vista laptop.

Right-click on the shortcut for the program, go into Properties and set the compatibility mode to "Windows XP" and the errors don't occur.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 16, 2007, 02:00:58 PM
Thanks for workaround, I don't have vista so I couldn't provide any info about it. Damn microsoft :icon_lol: :icon_mad:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: wampcat1 on August 17, 2007, 11:37:25 PM
Sad to say, I have Windows Vista (was the only option at best buy) ::) and I am having problems running DIY Layout Creator.   :icon_cry:  Anyone get it to work with Vista?  I'm trying to do something productive while I cannot solder.    :icon_biggrin:  Sorry for the 3x emoticons

edited to say these are the 2 errors that I got: "Failed to set Data for"" and "No Active Document"

Just installed this on the new Vista laptop.

Right-click on the shortcut for the program, go into Properties and set the compatibility mode to "Windows XP" and the errors don't occur.


even with doing that I get stuck in an infinite loop...

I open up the program and get an error box that says:
Failed to set data for "

and then another that says:
No active document

Everytime I click "ok", it opens the same error box (no active document).
This is on an updated version of vista

bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: anchovie on August 18, 2007, 05:16:11 AM
Try setting "Run as Administrator" in the properties as well.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: wampcat1 on August 18, 2007, 03:55:04 PM
Try setting "Run as Administrator" in the properties as well.

yep, that fixed it, thanks!
bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Valoosj on September 11, 2007, 05:48:53 AM
here you go
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=software (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=software)

I you make a pcb lay out to etch, how can you mirror the image, so all the parts will be soldered on right?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 11, 2007, 08:14:52 AM
there's an option to export to PnP that makes it right, I think
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Valoosj on September 11, 2007, 08:45:56 AM
I just tried that. It makes it a pcb, but you have to mirror it (with paint or another program)
Nice stuff!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: markm on September 12, 2007, 08:56:13 AM
I just tried that. It makes it a pcb, but you have to mirror it (with paint or another program)
Nice stuff!

The PCB image does NOT need to be mirrored at all.  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 12, 2007, 03:01:45 PM
I have updated layout section of my site finally with all layouts you guys uploaded in the meantime. Sorry it took so long, it's been busy period :) I'll try to update more frequent from now on, thanks to all for uploading.
By the way, sine I'm not building anything new while in the NY I'll put new pic on front page every often  :icon_cool:
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Valoosj on September 14, 2007, 07:56:11 PM
I just tried that. It makes it a pcb, but you have to mirror it (with paint or another program)
Nice stuff!

The PCB image does NOT need to be mirrored at all.  :icon_confused:

doesn't that depend on the method you use for etching the pcb? The ones I made all had mirrored images. I never made a pcb myself (yet) but all the images were mirrored from the wiring diagram
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Ronsonic on September 14, 2007, 09:30:46 PM
The wiring diagram is viewed from the top side of the board. The PCB traces are seen from the bottom. So they aren't mirrored they are simply seen from the other side. Using press n peel you don't mirror image the pattern and that's the major method for PCBs around here. The photo resist process requires a reversed pattern.

I hope I'm not making it more confusing.

Ron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ambulancevoice on October 03, 2007, 03:39:56 AM
is this avalible for mac yet?? sorry if i sound impatient
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2007, 08:13:46 AM
No, I'm still in the US busting my a** with programming.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rikkards on October 03, 2007, 08:25:02 AM
I have a couple of ideas although I don't know how feasible they are but something to keep in mind for a later version:
1. With some people using trim pots to tune in their sound, it would be nice to have some variances i.e 1x3, 2x2 grid sized components as this would make it easier to lay out the components. Maybe allow method to import libraries or create your own?
2. Different types of switches
3. Smaller sized pots (They are HUGE!)
4. Allow busses as part of layout. I have purchased pcbs that have busses and use them extensively. When laying out my circuits I am setting the components with their leads out into space to replicate this. Maybe it could be like a mix of cut track icon and a component laying down the start and end of the bus and filling in everything in between.

No idea if this is possible but thought I should throw this out there.
Thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2007, 10:23:00 AM
thanks for suggestions. Yeah, smaller pots would be cool, as for trimpots I don't understand. There are at least 3 different types already there.
I never used busses so have no clue what that is, if you explain me I'll try to add to the new version.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rikkards on October 03, 2007, 10:53:42 AM
thanks for suggestions. Yeah, smaller pots would be cool, as for trimpots I don't understand. There are at least 3 different types already there.
I never used busses so have no clue what that is, if you explain me I'll try to add to the new version.
Cheers

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I will have to open my eyes and look at the trimpots in it. I saw Potentiometers but don't remember seeing any small pots that I could mount on the board for figuring out placing. I will look tonight.

A bus would just be a separate strip of pads that are all connected. Most of the time a bus is used to provide Ground or Power.
Below would be a strip board with a bus on the left going vertical. 
X   XXXXX
X   XXXXX
X   XXXXX

Most of the PCBs I have bought had a strip or two on each side that run the length of the board that I use to provide Power connections to the circuit. Usability wouldn't change adding this but would help with layout. Plus if this was  "component" that could be added to the board. It would give anyone the ability to more accurately get the look of the PCB they are using.

Otherwise, I am really happy with the tool and it saves a LOT of time when you realize that the placing of your components won't work.

Hope that makes more sense.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 03, 2007, 11:33:10 AM
Hm, but couldn't you make bus with pads and traces?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rikkards on October 03, 2007, 12:07:27 PM
Hm, but couldn't you make bus with pads and traces?

Probably. It would take a while to do a 35 pad bus though :)

I was thinking of more for aesthetic purposes than functionality.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Pushtone on October 11, 2007, 11:46:23 PM

I can not print within DIYLC, just like the lad in this post.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=48097.0

I have to render and use another program to print the layout and PnP.
I did a search but the thread above is all I could find and that's from a year ago.

Not a big deal, but I would like to know if its my computer or just the program.
I using version 18.10 2006

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 12, 2007, 09:03:13 AM
It could be anything, probably something microsoft related :) Sorry I can't give you something useful. Java version should be better because it's not OS dependant once I make it. Damn microsoft screws something up every day, with every new release of IE, office or windows some of my programs don't work any more...

Anyways, I have reorganized my layouts page (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts) so now it's all DB driven, so when new layout comes in I only need to add DB entry and page will take care of the rest. For now it looks the same as the old one but it leaves space for future improvements. First will be search/filtering, but I plan to put more stuff, like online layout verification (so you can see who verified it) and more. Stay tuned.
By the way, check out the main page (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/) of my site, I added some interesting non-DIY photos...
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Papa_lazerous on October 12, 2007, 12:37:11 PM
By the way, check out the main page (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/) of my site, I added some interesting non-DIY photos...

You wouldnt mean the pic of you meeting Vai would you???  Thats cool mate!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 12, 2007, 12:40:02 PM
yeah, it's a slideshow, there's more :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Papa_lazerous on October 12, 2007, 02:01:12 PM
yeah, it's a slideshow, there's more :)

Cool just looked, I am jealous!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 12, 2007, 04:54:04 PM
Thanks John!
anyway, I've added layout filtering to the site, so now you can type something like "pcb amp" and it will return all amplifiers that have pcb layout.
more to come.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 16, 2007, 02:22:05 PM
Latest update: I have added layout rating system, so visitors can give thumbs up or thumbs down. Check out
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts (http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diy/index.php?project=layouts)
Btw, only one rating per user is allowed. Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: s.r.v. on November 03, 2007, 03:35:54 PM
can i ask what you mac users are doing until the flash version comes out? is there a way to run this?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 03, 2007, 04:21:05 PM
probably with windows emulator.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: jeromeplank on November 13, 2007, 12:49:12 PM
probably with windows emulator.
cheers

i've tried this using crossover in mac and couldn't get it to work. it seemed to install just fine but when i went to run it a couple errors came up then it crashed.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 13, 2007, 01:57:01 PM
sucks :(
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: aron on November 13, 2007, 01:57:44 PM
It runs fine with Parallels.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 13, 2007, 05:54:30 PM
cool to know Aron, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: jeromeplank on November 13, 2007, 08:21:43 PM
It runs fine with Parallels.

But that would require a full Windows installation, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Gordo on November 15, 2007, 02:17:04 AM
Hi,

I'm a little new around here, but have a bunch of effects projects under my belt.  I downloaded this app some time ago but am just getting around to working with it and wanted to let you know how thrilled I am with it.  Very nice job.  I used it to crank out the layout for the Soul Preacher and worked very nicely.  A pleasure to use and very intuitive.  I've always thought that one of the cool things about the DIY community is the folks that give back more than they take.  This is a HUGE give back...

Gordo
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 15, 2007, 08:20:23 AM
Cool, thanks for kind words Gordo.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 16, 2007, 07:33:08 PM
Good news everyone. I finally got some strength to start working on Java version. It's getting cold and I've already seen most of New York so I can spend some time working on this.
I got NetBeans and started to get acquainted with it. Stay tuned

Best regards,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 16, 2007, 11:19:45 PM
and the first screenshot

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc1.jpg)

I'm trying to structure the app well in the source so it's maintainable and expandable, none of which is easy with previous version.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Kornell on November 17, 2007, 05:54:46 AM
Thanks bancika for your work. I've used and enjoyed a lot the Layout Creator.  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on November 18, 2007, 04:07:30 PM
will there be a schematic drawing tool in this version?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 18, 2007, 05:55:19 PM
I doubt it, at least for starters. First goal is to match basic functionality of windows version so mac/linux folks can use it. New structure will hopefully enable easier improvements.
I'll try to make rendering engine that will work ok for board layouts, (little later) chassis layouts and (later) schematics.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 20, 2007, 02:04:17 PM
Update: I'll try to make it as modular as possible, components will be located in separate files and will be completely independent of the application. Probably board parts, too.
I'll try to abstract as much as possible and treat everything as the same model. With boards treated like any other components it will be possible to make layouts with more than one board on the screen, place board whenever you want, create your own styles of boards, etc.

Also, I'm working on drag&drop engine - hopefully, most of things will be drag&drop-able.

Best,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: culturejam on November 20, 2007, 09:24:40 PM
I got the current version of DIY Layout Creator running on Linux. Only a couple of minor bugs (right-clicking always causes and exception error pop-up window).

I installed it with CrossOver Office Pro 5.0.3. I'm running WINE version 0.9.49 on Debian Etch.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: aron on November 20, 2007, 09:34:41 PM
>But that would require a full Windows installation, wouldn't it?

Yes. But I have a number of dead PC machines that had Home XP on them. I just use those old disks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: aron on November 20, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
An alternative to Java is using REALBasic. It will cross compile to Mac/Win/Linux and it is so easy to use.

Aron
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 20, 2007, 11:42:07 PM
I hate basic :)
Java is not bad, I'm getting to know it and like it. Eclipse is a pain to work with with, I'm doing this in NetBeans. Probably not as flexible as eclipse, but at least I won't spend most of my time configuring it and installing all sorts of ANTs, JARs, WARs, BEANs and all other crap (if they spent the time needed to come up with those silly names to make it actually work it would be much better) :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: aron on November 21, 2007, 01:30:26 PM
>I hate basic

I used to as well. After all the compilers and "foundations" etc.... It's nice to sit down and write an application really fast and have it deploy across all my computers though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 21, 2007, 05:00:02 PM
How powerful is it?
It's probably ok approach if you need quick and simple apps but for larger projects I'm not sure if it can keep up. For DIYLC I need complex drawing routines, XML and stuff.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: s.r.v. on November 21, 2007, 05:04:37 PM
Thank you so much bancika!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cant wait for the flash version. no more getting out the crappy old pc, i can do layouts on my beautiful mac! thanks again, its a great program
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: aron on November 21, 2007, 05:05:39 PM
>How powerful is it?
It's probably ok approach if you need quick and simple apps but for larger projects I'm not sure if it can keep up. For DIYLC I need complex drawing routines, XML and stuff.


I think you would be amazed at how powerful it is. Really.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 21, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
Thank you so much bancika!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cant wait for the flash version.

what flash version  :icon_question: :icon_rolleyes: but anyways, you're welcome  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on November 21, 2007, 06:03:36 PM
maybe he meant Java.....
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: kurtlives on November 21, 2007, 06:11:25 PM
His has probbly been asked before...

But why no symbol for a battery clip or adapter?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 21, 2007, 07:51:13 PM
will be...stay tuned
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 21, 2007, 08:21:22 PM
by the way, I have introduced some new concepts (like complete modularity, components are now defined in separate files) which means that I'll have to change file format. I hope that I'll be able to make effective conversion from old to new format but it's very unlikely for the other way round. Old version won't be able to open new files...but who cares, once new version is up there won't be reason to use the old one.
Cheers

Edit: I'm using anti-aliasing for drawing so it will look much better too. If it's bad for performance I can always turn it off (at least for design mode).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: s.r.v. on November 21, 2007, 08:53:41 PM
haha i meant java. any expected date for the new one? maybe a nice christmas present?  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 21, 2007, 09:19:56 PM
Well, can't promise anything but you'll have demo version before Christmas, that's for sure  :icon_mrgreen:
I'm developing component engine, it should be much better than what we have now :icon_idea:
Every component will be described in it's own XML file which means that anybody will be able to create new components.
That XML file will contain just about anything, what properties component should have (size, value, dimension, mouser part #, whatever)...something like this
Code: [Select]
<properties>
 <property name="value" dataType="Text" displayText="Value" defaultValue="10"/>
 <property name="units" dataType="Choice" displayText="Units" defaultValue="K">
  <choice>R</choice>
  <choice>K</choice>
  <choice>M</choice>
 </property>
</properties>
then it will have the section that defines number of control points and their default position, for instance resistor needs two reference points - start and end. here's example
Code: [Select]
<points>
 <point x="20*grid" y="20*grid"/>
 <point x="30*grid" y="30*grid"/>
</points>
then it will have a section that describes to program how it should draw that component from scratch, it will contain all usual drawing routines that are needed for the task. that section will look something like this
Code: [Select]
<drawInstructions>
 <draw object="line" x1="x1" y1="y1" x2="x2" y2="y2" color="000000" width="1"/>
</drawInstructions>
And here's the beauty of it, all parameters are mathematical expressions. For two-point based component you have variables x1, y1, x2 and y2 which represent point coordinates, there are all standard math functions. In my example above it should just draw line between two points where those points are (x1, y1) and (x2, y2), so "expressions" are only coordinates, but it can be anything really.
Here's the result when you click on "Test1" button (that's my component type I created for testing, it's only a line so far, but it will soon convert into copper trace :)).
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc2.jpg)
I'm really happy how it works so far.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Electric_Death on November 22, 2007, 04:49:16 PM
Hi,
I'm thinking about making piece of software for speeding up drawing perfboard and vero layouts. It would have library with components and user would drag&drop them over board. Also, it would have it's own format and ability to save to gif/jpg.
And of course, it would be freeware :)
Would this be useful, should I waste my time on this?
Thanks,
Branislav

Here's a thought.
How about a program that makes selecting parts as easy as CIRCUIT MAKER PRO and STUDENT CIRCUIT MAKER?
I go to work with PCB Express and all these other infamous programs and their interfaces are a complete mess.
Incredibly inefficient.

I just want to slap together a circuit Circuit Maker Pro style, click format PCB and an intuitive A.I. algorithm formats the best layout for my PCB along with several versions to choose from. I print it out and etch my board or, I send it off to a company which makes me some boards  and I assemble my circuits. Etching isn't rocket science but I'd rather just spend a few bucks and have a dozen boards printed for me.



Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 22, 2007, 05:09:29 PM
I don't understand your point. Even with current version selecting components is as easy as it gets, at least I think so.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Papa_lazerous on November 22, 2007, 06:37:45 PM
I don't understand your point. Even with current version selecting components is as easy as it gets, at least I think so.

I agree its as easy as it gets, the only issue I ever found was the slowing down issues when boards got complicated and highly populated
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 22, 2007, 09:30:03 PM
That will hopefully be solved with this version. These days I'll post first demo here for volunteers to try :icon_mrgreen:

Basic framework is half way done, it can recognize components from library files, it can use them to display layout. So far it only supports straight lines but I'll add everything needed.
Also, drag&drop engine is also half way done, it will enable dragging whole component (not done yet) or dragging just control points, like end points of the resistor (done).
From now on, components will not have to snap to the grid. Dragging with Ctrl key will be without snap (I'm happy with how that works actually).
I really hope that I'll be able to make very nice and easy to use mouse functions, like multi-select, too.

For the last year or so I got many great comments for you guys, so I'll try to implement them as much as I can, thanks!

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 23, 2007, 10:58:36 PM
Good news folks: I have done some performance testing (I was worried about that the most) and the results are encouraging. I tried drawing 40 rectangles (soon to be resistors) with lines as leads with both anti-aliasing and transparency effects fully on (looks great by the way) and rendering time for the whole screen was always under 100mS regardless of number of components on the layout (the same for one and 40 components).
Btw, test machine is a mid-range server with 3.2GHz CPU and 2GB RAM. It has some crappy integrated graphic card and I think that Java knows how to take advantage of hardware acceleration, so with better graphic cards it must be even better. I'll test on my work machine with two processors and better graphic card on monday.
It's more than enough for comfortable work as it is now. Hopefully it won't get any slower, I don't plan to add any more visual effects.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 26, 2007, 08:40:57 AM
And here's new screenshot. Engine is strong enough to make most of components, I made resistor, cap and perfboard (all defined in XML 100%) just to test it. I don't have icons for components yet so they all share crappy running guy :)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc3.png)
Also, with this engine it will be possible to have schematic elements as well as chassis so you'll be able to combine schematic, layout and chassis layout in the same page. All it takes is to define the look'n'feel of every component in separate XML files.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nisios on November 26, 2007, 08:48:05 AM
thanks for this very nice piece of software in the first place.
I have a small sugestion that might been pointed out already, but here it goes:
Make a Save As function.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 26, 2007, 09:05:10 AM
Will do.
edit: it's already there, "Save Project As..." :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 26, 2007, 11:09:17 PM
And new screenshot, I have finished mouse selection and drag&drop part of the app and I'm very happy with it.
Components can be selected and dragged individually or using rectangle select (you wanted this, didn't you), the same like files in windows explorer. After you select one or more items they can be dragged around with mouse.
Any thoughts?
Cheers

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc4.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 26, 2007, 11:31:14 PM
Sorry if these are already implemented, but how about an explorer esque

click, ctrl+click, ctrl+click etc to select multiple components? 

also, i know itd be hard work to incorperate a large library, but how about making several capacitor types?

like mylar, ceramic, metalised, electrolytic small, electrolytic med and electrolytic large? 

isnt so relevent for resistors, but how about measuring the average lead length of a resistor and having  a popup telling the user that the lead length is likely to be too long?could do the same for the diff cap types too?

also, the program could have "reccomended" hole spacings for components?

lastly, a node tester mode? i dunno if this was in the last one but if it was im not sure i ever got it to work. You click on a wire or pad/component lead, and it highlights all the other component leads/traces connected to it?

Finally, amazing work, really appreciate it. if you need testers once its ready il be more than willing.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 27, 2007, 12:02:09 AM
Yeah, I was thinking about ctrl+click for multi-select too, I'll try to add it.
As for the library, as you might have read above, I'm making powerful component rendering engine that will be highly modular. Components will be defined in separate files and by just copying file to library folder it would be installed and ready to use. This is already established and works like a charm. Once I completely finish the engine I'll write component making tutorial and post it so anyone can make their own components. I will make online library and program will be able to automatically go to my site and check if there's something new available, download it and install for you. Also, all components will have properties that can affect rendering. Take vertical electrolyte for instance, it would have diameter as a property with default value set to X and user would be able to change it to whatever value (in whatever units). Component will "know" how to interpret entered diameter and based on that draw electrolyte with the right size.
As for resistor lead length, it's just a guesswork (and pain in the ass to do) and I don't think it's worth it. I'll make ruler so you'll be able to measure whatever you like (even under angle) and compare with resistors you actually have.
For the last thing, I'll think about that for future versions, this one will be drawing only app.
Thanks for suggestions,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 27, 2007, 07:24:16 AM
awesome, the modular system sounds amazing.

I'd been thinking about ctrl+click overnight and why it woul be needed. I concluded it'd be really useful for deleting mutlpele selected components, but not much else. So it'd be a bonus but not essential.

i still think itd be really beneficial to have a reccomended hole spacing for each components, you'd just need to add it as an attribute in the modular system? although its not so relevent with resistors it can be essential for lots of capacitors with really short stiff leads.

once again, great work.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 27, 2007, 05:55:34 PM
And new screenshot, library is reworked, now components are organized into categories. I made few more components just to test.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc5.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Kornell on November 28, 2007, 02:42:41 AM
Amazing!! :o
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 28, 2007, 09:02:47 AM
Thanks Kornell, I'll post alpha version probably today-tomorrow for anyone interested to try.
Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 28, 2007, 07:23:24 PM
new screenshot
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc7.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Papa_lazerous on November 28, 2007, 07:24:35 PM
NICE!!!   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 28, 2007, 11:12:21 PM
I put alpha version for all interested to try. You need to have Java 1.5 or newer installed in order for it to work. Just extract everything into the same folder and execute diylc.jar. Still no saving/loading files, I wrote routines, but didn't make GUI part yet.

Here's the link http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc_alpha.zip

Let me know what you think, cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Basile on November 29, 2007, 04:24:35 AM
OK it looks promising... I'm curious to see if it works well on Linux!

BR

Basile
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: nbabmf on November 29, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
Vista compatibility FINALLY!  ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 08:14:42 AM
Also, I forgot to say, double click on the component in the library creates new instance, double click on component on the layout opens properties dialog for that component.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 29, 2007, 09:19:10 AM
i think iv come across a problem. I cant delete components once they are created.

Also, the components wont stay selected, they unselect themselves imediately after clicking on them.

also, i dont think i could select the capacitor (schematic) at all.

lastly, this is probably something you just havnt got round to yet and know about, but just incase, there has to be a simpler way of rotating transistors other than typing in an angle (although i do like the fact that you can edit it on that level)

and in the same line of thought, its a bit weird how chips automatically rotate themselves according to the size.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 09:37:56 AM
yeah, I didn't make deletion yet :)

I know about cap symbol selection, will fix it (you can't select any lines yet, but with cap being just a few lines, it's a issue)

yeah, I was planning to make better rotation.

I'll improve chips, it's just basic idea.

It's still early stage of development, there will be many improvements. Thanks for looking into it!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 29, 2007, 10:42:39 AM
I think its good, better than the old version, works much smoother.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: frokost on November 29, 2007, 10:46:09 AM
This is great news and a most welcome development! You can't imagine how painful it has been trying to use the program under Q emulator running Win98 on a PowerPC Mac....

EDIT: The "Library" window is empty on Mac, running J2SE 5.0. Maybe there is an upgrade to this now...?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 11:05:08 AM
It probably didn't recognize the folder, did you unpack whole archive in the same folder? try putting everything on C:\
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: frokost on November 29, 2007, 11:26:51 AM
I see. I'm discarding the "my java is outdated" theory, since

Quote
$:~/Desktop/diylc_alpha/diylc$ java -version
java version "1.5.0_07"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_07-164)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_07-87, mixed mode, sharing)

Since this is a Mac, it's hard to put anything on C:\ at all. How are you addressing the files? Maybe there's something that confuses java on unix systems, like trying to find ~\comp\*.xml instead of ~/comp/*.xml or something like that. I don't know, but maybe?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 11:30:09 AM
yeah, it does try to find path with \ instead of /, is that an issue for mac?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 11:35:37 AM
anyways, I have updated with version that uses /, try do download it from the same location
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: frokost on November 29, 2007, 12:01:33 PM
Unix systems, like MacOS, use the regular slash to separate directories, as opposed to Windows, which uses backslash. I think Java is clever (if that can be said about Java) enough to distinguish between this, but you should check out what the correct way to address files in Java is. I really don't know myself, since I haven't touched Java in nearly ten years.

The file system on Unix systems is case sensitive too, so keep in mind that "DIYLC" is NOT the same directory/file as "diylc". Maybe there's something there? I'm having a hard time figuring out how you make your calls without the source, so this is all I can figure out for the moment. Ktrace/strace isn't that useful with Java.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 02:19:12 PM
did you try the new one? Should be working now...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 29, 2007, 05:01:49 PM
A minor tweak and isnt really worth bothering about right now, but in the final version can you make the resistors default to being either vertical or horizontal? its very rare that a resistor would be placed diagonally, also, can you default resistors to be 5 hole spacings lead to lead, and capacitors seem to fit easy with 3 holes spacing lead to lead? Thats generally what i find is a good fit, so it makes sense to default to "reasonable" size and shape, even if it doesnt work for every component.

I really like the idea of a ruler too.

I dont want to seem rude, i think you're doing some amazing work for the community.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 05:07:56 PM
yeah, default positions are very random thing, the only thing that's intentional are those wacky angles, because if I screwed something in drawing instructions it will usually be more apparent when rotated under weird angle.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 29, 2007, 06:47:53 PM
Just had an idea, its not very common for people to have their own enclosures manufactured, so how about everyone submitting their favourite enclosures and using some kind of drop down menu which draws the enclosure dimmensions automatically?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 29, 2007, 07:43:31 PM
yeah, that could be nice, I though about that but have no idea how to implement it in my modular engine...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on November 29, 2007, 07:57:11 PM
i have no idea either :)

what about having seperate box sizes and a customisable box setting?
You could have an enclosures folder where you could select BB or B  or "variable" etc.
That way people could make their own enclosures like they can make theyre own library components?

sorry if i'm not any help, i have little java experience, and no gui experience.

I assume the op-amp schematic still has the +/- inputs, outputs and power lines to go on? it'd be useful to select "dual" op-amp schematic, which would bring up both parts of say a 4558, and then label them U1a and U1b.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: SISKO on November 29, 2007, 07:59:53 PM
Hey Bacinka, if you have a "Help" section and want to translate in to diferents languges, i have no problem in translate it in to spanish. I have no idea if this have had done before coouse ive got the programs inn the other computer. ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: frokost on November 30, 2007, 08:22:13 AM
It works now. Great!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 30, 2007, 08:24:58 AM
One more thing I forgot, if you hold Ctrl key while dragging it won't snap to grid.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on November 30, 2007, 04:10:48 PM
any news on the mac version of the layout creator?

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 30, 2007, 04:26:58 PM
Read previous 2-3 pages...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on November 30, 2007, 04:53:51 PM
Read previous 2-3 pages...


i'm very sorry for not reading those page before i asked the question.
i just downloaded the alpha version and it works fine on my macbook!

you are doing an incredible job with this software!!!

thx thx thx
my mac love this! ;-)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 30, 2007, 04:55:02 PM
nice to know it works, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 30, 2007, 10:22:07 PM
I have placed new alpha here http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
Please download it and check it out, it has some new cool features:

- I have added wire component and I'm specially proud of it, you should see the math below :)
- Drag&drop and component selection now works with lines too (that's why it wasn't possible to drag capacitor symbol -- no surfaces)
- You can move selected components around with keyboard arrows, as usual, holding Ctrl key moves only for one pixel, not by grid size.
- Works a bit faster (do not try to use perf and strip boards, one is slow and other doesn't show up but I'm working on it).
- Library update actually works, I have placed phony component on my site called New component, program recognizes it and does auto-update when clicked.

Let me know how you like it.

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 01, 2007, 04:23:17 AM
awesome.

with the boards working, deletion and save this will be useable.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 09:28:49 AM
check out new resistor
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/resistor2.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: stumper1 on December 01, 2007, 01:14:30 PM
Looking good!!! 8) 

I just read the last few pages  - when you say "don't have to snap to grid", does that mean components, solder pads, etc. can be placed "anywhere"? 

Thanks for all your work.  I use current version almost every day!!  Looks like the new version will be even better.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 01, 2007, 02:58:23 PM
check out new resistor
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/resistor2.jpg)

Much better ! colours a bit weird.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 01, 2007, 03:16:39 PM
Looking good!!! 8) 

I just read the last few pages  - when you say "don't have to snap to grid", does that mean components, solder pads, etc. can be placed "anywhere"? 

Thanks for all your work.  I use current version almost every day!!  Looks like the new version will be even better.

I noticed that when you use this function it makes its own invisible grid which it snaps too afterwards. While you press ctrl you can place it anywhere, but afterwards it gets snapped to an invisible grid which doesnt line up with the visible grid.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 03:32:25 PM
Basically, when you hold ctrl it moves for 1px, when you don't it moves for the grid size.
As for resistor color, please send me HEX values for resistor and outline and I'll change it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 04:19:19 PM
I noticed that when you use this function it makes its own invisible grid which it snaps too afterwards. While you press ctrl you can place it anywhere, but afterwards it gets snapped to an invisible grid which doesnt line up with the visible grid.

It must work like this. If I'm to re-align component(s) to grid whenever ctrl is not pressed I can have some issues: imagine having two components, you move one without snapping to the grid, then you select both and move them with snapping to the grid. If I make the one that's not aligned to the grid to be aligned I'll loose relative distance between those two components.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 01, 2007, 04:46:58 PM
i got these from photos of resistors, dunno what itl look like though.

dca85f
e7bc87
ffd9aa

also, i captured this from a picture, but its a bit wobbly and i cant figure out how to turn it into a vector graphic.

(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7187/22036carbonfilmresistorpu9.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 05:47:25 PM
here's the new one, I used the 3rd color you suggested, shape is closer to real too...
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/resistor3.jpg)
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: s.r.v. on December 01, 2007, 08:50:46 PM
to be honest i like the old version more, but the alpha is still really cool. COuple of questions...
how do you deleted components?
How do you flip transistors?
wheres the cool little parts list at the bottom?
thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 09:59:05 PM
It's still early stage, I've been working on it for about 10 days only. You can't possible like the old one better, this one will be much-much better, and I'm sure it's apparent even now.
You can't delete components in that version, but meanwhile I made it work, next version will have deletion. To flip transistor double click on it and write the angle you want to rotate it for, I'll make it better, but that's for starters.
As for parts list, it will be on the separate window, not to interfere with the layout but you'll be able to append it on image file when exporting or as a text/html file.
Stay tuned
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 01, 2007, 11:53:26 PM
New addition: program will be able to render external image files. The procedure is: you choose any image file, it gets encoded into DIY project file (so you don't need original file any more) and you can set transparency level and rotation angle in the app. Check this out

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc9.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 02, 2007, 02:29:49 PM
New addition: program will be able to render external image files. The procedure is: you choose any image file, it gets encoded into DIY project file (so you don't need original file any more) and you can set transparency level and rotation angle in the app. Check this out

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc9.jpg)

Thats ridiculous! I can't beleive you made that!

i like it...

Also, i agree that this version is much much better, the other one was useful but frustratingly sluggish and looked a little amatuer, this one looks really pro.

As i said earlier, with deletion and save/render to gif this could go straight to beta, and probably even be used as a final edition.

Things like enclosure design, and selectable enclosures and offboard components and even a ruler can all be added in version 1.1 etc.

The modular library i think makes this programme much better, you can add things like those zvex style pots, and effectively design any pedal using any parts.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 02, 2007, 03:06:46 PM
The modular library i think makes this programme much better, you can add things like those zvex style pots, and effectively design any pedal using any parts.

exactly, that's the main strength here and it was not simple to build engine around that. I still have some performance concerns, but it's not caused by slow graphics (java has great graphics support) but by complex math and parsing string formulas from component files into numbers. But that's the price that has to be paid for modularity. I'm trying to optimize it great deal, so having 1 resistor on the board works about as fast as having 50 of them because the math is the same for all resistor and it just re-uses the same formulas already calculated for one resistor. The issue is when you have many different types of components which have different math behind, but still, with current version and all 25 different component on screen it can render the whole layout in about 100mS, which is great I think.
Stay tuned, I'll post new alpha later today, Saving/Loading works, deleting too.

Btw, nobody commented on wire yet, and I think it's so cool  :icon_rolleyes: :icon_sad:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 02, 2007, 07:27:18 PM
The modular library i think makes this programme much better, you can add things like those zvex style pots, and effectively design any pedal using any parts.

exactly, that's the main strength here and it was not simple to build engine around that. I still have some performance concerns, but it's not caused by slow graphics (java has great graphics support) but by complex math and parsing string formulas from component files into numbers. But that's the price that has to be paid for modularity. I'm trying to optimize it great deal, so having 1 resistor on the board works about as fast as having 50 of them because the math is the same for all resistor and it just re-uses the same formulas already calculated for one resistor. The issue is when you have many different types of components which have different math behind, but still, with current version and all 25 different component on screen it can render the whole layout in about 100mS, which is great I think.
Stay tuned, I'll post new alpha later today, Saving/Loading works, deleting too.

Btw, nobody commented on wire yet, and I think it's so cool  :icon_rolleyes: :icon_sad:

The wire is pretty cool, the thing that annoyed me about the old wire was having to repeatedly click on it to change shape, and the shape was never gauranteed to be the one you wanted.

It's a bit weird. I was trying to figure out whether the "edit squares" should be visible or not. Its not very intuitive if they're visible, but by a different logic it's not very intuitive if they ARNT visible.

They work well though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 02, 2007, 07:46:53 PM
The wire is pretty cool, the thing that annoyed me about the old wire was having to repeatedly click on it to change shape, and the shape was never gauranteed to be the one you wanted.

It's a bit weird. I was trying to figure out whether the "edit squares" should be visible or not. Its not very intuitive if they're visible, but by a different logic it's not very intuitive if they ARNT visible.

They work well though.

what edit squares?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 02, 2007, 08:45:15 PM
The wire is pretty cool, the thing that annoyed me about the old wire was having to repeatedly click on it to change shape, and the shape was never gauranteed to be the one you wanted.

It's a bit weird. I was trying to figure out whether the "edit squares" should be visible or not. Its not very intuitive if they're visible, but by a different logic it's not very intuitive if they ARNT visible.

They work well though.

what edit squares?

the edit circles then?

Is it possible to make the response logarithmic so the wire moves increasing amounts the further you move the circles away?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 02, 2007, 08:50:41 PM
oh, you mean control points? but without them, how could you control the curve, old version uses random points so that's why it looks weird. When you export/print layout they won't be visible.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 02, 2007, 10:23:32 PM
new alpha is up, give it a go http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
cheers  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 04:16:36 AM
couple of points.

its hard to select the schematic ground, probably for the same reasons as the capacitor schematic symbol.

its hard to select the perf board if you have a background image, it just keeps selecting the background image till you put a new component in.

the normal terminology is "*.diy" instead of "just diy files" but thats being a bit arsey.

Could do with a "trace" so you dont have to use jumper wires all the time.

Where does the BOM file go? maybe this isnt finished.

I could save a file, but i couldnt get it to re-open it, just does nothing.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 08:18:40 AM
about selection: I could widen selection area around lines for 1 more px (it's already 1px wider than the line itself)
BOM is not done yet
saving/loading works for me, what do you mean by does nothing?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 09:08:19 AM
also, stripboards dont seem to be working.

basically if i hit "save project" i dont see any file saved, if i "save file as" then first i have to manually type in .diy, and then it produces a file. When i go to open it nothing changes in the programe, nothing opens and the page remains blank.

Dunno if thats going to be any help?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 09:10:51 AM
one more thing, i hit update button and it said changes will be reflected when you restart the program.

when i restarted it said the following component files could not be processed and pointed to "new.xml". these files will be ignored.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 09:36:07 AM
yeah, that file from the site is not a valid component...it was when I uploaded it but I changed file format a bit so it's not any more.

I know about stripboard, still not done :( I'll look into saving/loading

Important: format is still evolving, so don't do anything serious in alpha, there's good chance that it's not going to work with the next version. This is for testing only.

Even more important: my first goal with this version was to keep back compatibility with windows version but some very cool things could not be done with limitations old format had. And with every new cool thing I implement we're another step further from old format. For starters, program will not be able to read old files, they are just too different. Hopefully, I'll make a converter that will be able to convert good part of old layouts but probably not entirely. So transition won't be easy.
But we should be all happy for the evolution :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 10:57:16 AM
I've just downloaded the alpha and played with it for a few minutes.  Great job as usual, and thank you for donating your time and expertise to the community!!!

For me, the resistor schematic symbol does not render properly, the squiggly part is invisible. 

Also the screen flashes (completely redraws) every time anything is placed, moved, sometimes during a move, etc.  Is there a way for you to avoid this distracting flicker?

For inserted images, could there be a way to send them back or bring them forward in the z-order?

For schematic images, can the name and/or value be displayed with the symbol, or do we need to insert separate text?

Again, great job and I really like the new wire option: much easier to control the curves.
Erik
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 11:04:21 AM


For inserted images, could there be a way to send them back or bring them forward in the z-order?

yeah, thats what i was trying to get at but couldnt put the words together!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 11:13:54 AM
resistor is not done yet, that's why you don't see it :) It's not easy to write math part for schematic symbols...

As for screen flashing, it's weird that it happens. I mean, it does refresh the whole screen wherever you change something (I don't know smarter way to do it) but it's done really fast and with double buffering so you really shouldn't see anything. What machine/OS do you have?

As for z-order, I'll make that option. Already thought about it, there will be "Move to front" and "Send to back" options to do that, similarly to corel draw. Currently, there are a few z-order classes, the lower the class the lower it's going to be rendered. For instance, enclosure has 0 class, nothing goes below it, boards have 1 class, etc. The problem is when you have more than one component from the same class. Currently, it draws most recently added  component on the top. With new options, I'd make it possible to change z-order of components but only within it's class, so you can't make a resistor go under chassis or something. Hope it makes sense.

As for schematic symbol names/values, still can't think of a good way to do it. I mean, I could make it write the text at some pre-fixed place relative to the component but there's a good chance that it's not always the best place. Using additional text is a bit more work, but much more flexible. Any better ideas?

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 11:15:23 AM
One more thing, try using draft mode to see if it's any faster, F12 toggles this option...it reduces graphics quality to improve the speed.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 11:40:21 AM
Still flashes for me in F12 mode.  I am running WinXP SP2 on a laptop with a dual core pentium and 2GB of memory.

For schematic component text, maybe you could automatically add the text objects to the drawing when adding a symbol.  Then the user could move the text around.  Perhaps you could have a property on the symbol for associated text such that when the values are modified, the text is automatically updated.  I realize this would complicate things and also mean that these associated text items should probably not be allowed to be deleted, etc.  Perhaps an option to show/hide associated text?  What do you think?

Erik
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 12:06:26 PM
that makes the structure little complicated and break some nice things about modular component engine:

your machine seems strong enough, should work like that...which java version do you have? also, which directX version?
also, is it just flickering or it's slow, when you try to drag resistor around does it look smooth?
Anyone else has the flickering problem?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 12:38:00 PM
resistor is not done yet, that's why you don't see it :) It's not easy to write math part for schematic symbols...

how about using a summation for a saw tooth wave? you could either do the first 5 terms and perform a moving average over it, or perform heaps of terms, you might need in the order of 10's to get it looking smoothish, and 100's if you want it looking perfect (computers are good at things like that though:))

http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book-html/node189.html
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 12:42:27 PM
As for schematic symbol names/values, still can't think of a good way to do it. I mean, I could make it write the text at some pre-fixed place relative to the component but there's a good chance that it's not always the best place. Using additional text is a bit more work, but much more flexible. Any better ideas?

Cheers

i think editing a components name and value using right click is the best idea. The components name (e.g R1) should show up ON the resistor, and at the end you could add an option to list components with their values in a table, and shows up on screen underneath the board?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 12:48:06 PM
that makes the structure little complicated and break some nice things about modular component engine:
  • one component should not know about other components, in case you need change/remove components. Here resistor would need to know and manipulate with text component
  • when moving/deleting/editing resistor I'd have to worry about updating linked text components.

your machine seems strong enough, should work like that...which java version do you have? also, which directX version?
also, is it just flickering or it's slow, when you try to drag resistor around does it look smooth?
Anyone else has the flickering problem?

no flickering problems here, dragging components around is a little laggy, but nothing like as laggy as the old version, in f12 mode its even less laggy, still noticble but neither modes bother me.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 12:57:55 PM
your machine seems strong enough, should work like that...which java version do you have? also, which directX version?
also, is it just flickering or it's slow, when you try to drag resistor around does it look smooth?
Anyone else has the flickering problem?

The whole drawing disappears and then reappears quickly; however, it is not slow.  Dragging is fast and works fine.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 01:32:39 PM
The whole drawing disappears and then reappears quickly; however, it is not slow.  Dragging is fast and works fine.

hmm, shouldn't work like that, I made double buffering to prevent exactly that.  :icon_rolleyes:
Make sure that you have your graphics card set properly (hardware acceleration and similar stuff), also make sure you have java 1.5 or newer.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 01:52:56 PM
Hardware acceleration is at full.

I downloaded latest java before running your program.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 02:07:23 PM
damn, I was hoping that by using Java we won't have this kind of crap with different machines/platforms, but... :icon_rolleyes: :icon_sad:
Can't think of anything at the moment, but I'll read about it and see if we can do something...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 02:09:36 PM
No worries!  Let's see if anyone else sees this issue.  It might be something specific to my PC...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 02:14:04 PM
No worries!  Let's see if anyone else sees this issue.  It might be something specific to my PC...

what kind of graphics card have you got? maybe in "double buffering" to make sure it renders well it means poorer graphics cars arnt able to cope well?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 02:24:15 PM
I doubt it, I think that server I work on at home has integrated intel card which is probably very crappy itself and it's still fine.
Did you try any game on your pc?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 03, 2007, 02:32:54 PM
This is my work Dell laptop.  The video card is listed as
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 110M
Chip Type: GeFroce Go 7300
Memory Size: 256MB

So I don't think it is too crappy.  So far no one else has mentioned this issue, so let's see what happens...
Erik

P.S. This is my work PC, so I don't have any games loaded.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 02:45:56 PM
My machine at work has Quadro NVS 280 with only 64MB and it works great here.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 02:49:06 PM
My machine at work has Quadro NVS 280 with only 64MB and it works great here.

need more testers i think.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 02:52:13 PM
yeah, I'll try it on another laptop...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 03:12:35 PM
yeah, I'll try it on another laptop...

il try it on my flat mates decrepid 3 year old laptop with on board graphics tommorow, and report back.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 07:43:16 PM
I tried on the laptop and it worked fine, a bit slower than on desktop but no sign of flickering... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bluetubes on December 03, 2007, 08:23:51 PM
Great Job Bancika.  Downloaded the alpha and played with it for a bit.  Looks very cool  8)  The control points on the wires are pretty slick. 

No flickering here.  I do however have a little lag dragging the components around.....but it's not a problem at all.  F12 definitely makes it a little better.

A couple of quick suggestions (if you wouldn't mind hearing them)...

1) Is there any way to hide the control points until a wire is "in Focus" or selected?  I had a bunch of wires running close together and it got pretty crazy to look at with all the control points showing.
2) IMO It would be a cool idea to include a "send to back" or "bring to front" feature for selected components.  For times when components cross or for wires that may go under or above components.

Thank you for this....I use your Layout Creator quite a bit.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 08:34:02 PM
Sure I don't mind, no matter how much I like hearing good stuff, it's critique that will actually make it better
1) I'll try to do something about it
2) check out few posts above, we agreed upon that.
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 03, 2007, 08:43:24 PM
I tried on the laptop and it worked fine, a bit slower than on desktop but no sign of flickering... :icon_rolleyes:

ditto. Starting to think the flickering could be an isolated occurence, but probably need more testing to confirm.

still cant get loading files to work.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 03, 2007, 09:03:52 PM
I just tried and it worked, do you get open dialog at all? And you choose the file with mouse?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 04, 2007, 08:08:28 AM
I just tried and it worked, do you get open dialog at all? And you choose the file with mouse?

yeah, i get it, but when i hit open nothing happens, didnt work on either pc. tried save as and save project, both seemed to require me to add the .diy - then closed the program, then re-started it, press open file, click file, press open - nothing.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 04, 2007, 10:32:06 AM
Just to show it I have uploaded a video demonstrating the flicker/redraw.  You can see it at

http://home.earthlink.net/~ezanker/video/DIYLC.html (http://home.earthlink.net/~ezanker/video/DIYLC.html)

Erik
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 04, 2007, 11:14:45 AM
I see, try to run it like this: go to command prompt, change active directory to DIYLC and type in

java -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true -jar DIYLC.jar

maybe it will help
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 04, 2007, 12:13:02 PM
I see, try to run it like this: go to command prompt, change active directory to DIYLC and type in

java -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true -jar DIYLC.jar

maybe it will help

I ran it like this and the flickering is the same.

Again, let's see if anyone else sees this problem...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 04, 2007, 01:36:03 PM
yeah, i get it, but when i hit open nothing happens, didnt work on either pc. tried save as and save project, both seemed to require me to add the .diy - then closed the program, then re-started it, press open file, click file, press open - nothing.

what about double clicking on the file from open dialog?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 04, 2007, 03:00:07 PM
yeah, i get it, but when i hit open nothing happens, didnt work on either pc. tried save as and save project, both seemed to require me to add the .diy - then closed the program, then re-started it, press open file, click file, press open - nothing.

what about double clicking on the file from open dialog?

still nothing.

have you tried it on a pc without the java dk?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 04, 2007, 03:13:03 PM
I think that laptop I tried it on didn't have DK, but I'm not sure. It shouldn't be a difference whether it's DK or just runtime package. Which version do you have?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 04, 2007, 03:15:16 PM
I can save and reopen a .diy file.
The save does not automatically add the extension (.diy). 

When I opened the saved file the resistors (layout not schematic) are not redrawn.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 04, 2007, 05:06:39 PM
I can save and reopen a .diy file.
The save does not automatically add the extension (.diy). 

When I opened the saved file the resistors (layout not schematic) are not redrawn.

definetly cant open .diy files on my pc or my flatmates laptop.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 04, 2007, 10:34:38 PM
I have placed new alpha at the same location http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
Check if opening/saving works now, didn't change much there but maybe :)
New stuff:

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: MasaRGR on December 05, 2007, 01:28:13 AM
Thanks for all your hard work :)

Looks great and works fine on my Mac. The last two versions worked smooth for me. No flickers or problems with redraw here.

Saving and opening files works, but I'm getting the same problem as ezanker with the missing resistors when I load a saved file.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bigjim on December 05, 2007, 04:40:49 AM
Hey,

Been trying the program and its great but im having trouble getting the vero board to work. Is it something im doing wrong ?

Double click on the perfboard and it comes up, if I try with the vero board I just get two blue dots and thats it....

Any ideas ?

Jim
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 08:06:25 AM
don't use boards, perfboard is too slow, stripboard doesn't work at all.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 05, 2007, 08:56:54 AM
opening files still dont work on my side.

il update java and see if it makes a diff.

like the new ic's - i was trying to be awkward by putting in odd numbers of legs, it responds by making it a tad bigger but i was happy it didint try and put odd numbers of legs in.

also, i agree with the previous guy that the control points for the wires need to be invisible unless the item is selected, otherwise thigns get complicated when you're doing off board wiring.
Also, the resistors should be named consecutively as they are placed on the board: R1, R2, R3 etc, same for caps.

edit* updating java didnt work: still cant open files.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 09:35:24 AM
man, you must be doing something wrong :icon_rolleyes:
please explain in detail what are you doing and what's going on when you do it.
I plan to add auto increment component names...

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 11:35:16 AM
btw, I have fixed the wire, it shows lines and control points only when selected. It required some engine changes, but we're still evolving. It looks great, I'll post new version tonight.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 05, 2007, 12:35:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/BSwl-a_Ss_U

youtube converted it and destroyed the quality, but you can still make out whats going on.

Same thing happens on my flatmates laptop.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 01:19:58 PM
I see, can you post the contents of file it saved?
Also, try to run it from the console so you can see the output, maybe there's an exception.
go to command prompt, change folder to diylc and type

java -jar DIYLC.jar

when you open file from DIYLC go back to command prompt and grab the output from there.
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 05, 2007, 02:08:53 PM
I see, can you post the contents of file it saved?
Also, try to run it from the console so you can see the output, maybe there's an exception.
go to command prompt, change folder to diylc and type

java -jar DIYLC.jar

when you open file from DIYLC go back to command prompt and grab the output from there.
Tnx
contents of file looks ok
Quote
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<layout credits="Credits" formatVersion="2.0" projectName="New Project">
<component name="Enclosure">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="Enclosure"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="304" y="128"/>
<point x="944" y="608"/>
</points>
</component>
<component name="Wire">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="D"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Thickness" value="0.8*mm"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Color" value="00FF00"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="320" y="320"/>
<point x="400" y="480"/>
<point x="480" y="400"/>
<point x="560" y="480"/>
</points>
</component>
<component name="Electrolytic (Axial)">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="C"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Value" value="10uF"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Diameter" value="6*mm"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Length" value="15*mm"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="480" y="240"/>
<point x="640" y="400"/>
</points>
</component>
<component name="Electrolytic (Radial)">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="C"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Value" value="10uF"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Diameter" value="8*mm"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Distance" value="5*mm"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="768" y="192"/>
<point x="928" y="352"/>
</points>
</component>
<component name="Resistor">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="R"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Value" value="10"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Length" value="7*mm"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Diameter" value="2.5*mm"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="608" y="256"/>
<point x="768" y="416"/>
</points>
</component>
<component name="Capacitor">
<properties>
<property dataType="text" name="Name" value="C"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Value" value="10"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Length" value="4*mm"/>
<property dataType="text" name="Distance" value="1.5*mm"/>
</properties>
<points>
<point x="656" y="416"/>
<point x="816" y="576"/>
</points>
</component>
</layout>

heres the command prompt error when i open the file.

Quote
java.net.MalformedURLException: unknown protocol: cScreen rendered in 16 millise
conds.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 05, 2007, 02:10:09 PM
infact heres what comes up when it starts diylc, just in case you need that too

Quote
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
        at diylc.FrameMain.paintBuffer(FrameMain.java:276)
        at diylc.FrameMain.paint(FrameMain.java:339)
        at javax.swing.RepaintManager.paintDirtyRegions(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.RepaintManager.paintDirtyRegions(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.RepaintManager.seqPaintDirtyRegions(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.SystemEventQueueUtilities$ComponentWorkRequest.run(Unknow
n Source)
        at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)
Screen rendered in 62 milliseconds.
Screen rendered in 15 milliseconds.
Screen rendered in 31 milliseconds.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 02:18:45 PM
that's helpful, I'll try to figure it out. thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 05, 2007, 02:27:40 PM
that's helpful, I'll try to figure it out. thanks!

awesome,

funnily enough iv never used the cmd prompt to do something like that in windows. i did it all the time in uni on linux systems in java classes, but it never ocurred to me that it would work in windows too.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 02:40:31 PM
can you PM your mail so I can send you updated version to try...I think I fixed it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 03:41:09 PM
cool, it seems to work. Few cool new features will be available tonight, don't change the channel  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on December 05, 2007, 08:58:07 PM
Good News (for me anyway   ::) )
I upgraded my java to jre1.6.0_03, and now my flickering problem is gone.  Before I was using version jre1.5.0_14.
Erik
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 05, 2007, 10:05:47 PM
good news indeed :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2007, 12:17:56 AM
I'll have to postpone new alpha for tomorrow, I added some very nice stuff that required major reorganization, it's almost done now...
take care
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2007, 10:18:09 AM
Here's new alpha
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
few more components added, things should be little faster now, you can set page size, export to PNG file (no printing yet), save/load and stuff like that. Note that you can scroll work area and in the bottom right corner there is project info written.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 06, 2007, 11:15:29 AM
I have one major issue.

Save/Open works now, but when you re-open a file the resistors disapear leaving only the blue circles which indicate the end points.

*edit* unfortunately cmd doesnt report any exceptions for this. And also, i havn't checked ALL components for this kind of behaviour.

One minor issue, if you import a picture it'd be useful if you could only select it with right click? or have a click box in the item properties to enable such a feature, this is so if you are using it as a background picture then you dont keep accidentally selecting it when moving components around.  might be a useful feature for the enclosures and boards too.
png export works here.

Also, i know you still have issues with the boards and have mentioned this before, but just for the purposes of feedback, it is much slower with perfboard on screen than without.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2007, 11:33:43 AM
yeah, don't use boards yet :)

edit: I fixed the problem with resistors (and diodes)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on December 06, 2007, 04:09:39 PM
yeah, don't use boards yet :)

edit: I fixed the problem with resistors (and diodes)


again thx for all the work you're putting into this!
still works great on my mac!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2007, 04:43:45 PM
check this out, scrollable rulers in both cm and inches (that small button in the corner toggles it)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc10.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on December 06, 2007, 04:48:44 PM
check this out, scrollable rulers in both cm and inches (that small button in the corner toggles it)


it just gets better and better...  :P
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 06, 2007, 06:45:27 PM
check this out, scrollable rulers in both cm and inches (that small button in the corner toggles it)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc10.jpg)

awesome, is there a way to measure accurately or is it just as a guide?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nisios on December 06, 2007, 07:47:08 PM
it must be from the fact that im super tyred but i was trying your alpha and i didnt find a way to make copper traces :icon_eek:
havent you managed to put that in or im i just plain stupid? :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nisios on December 06, 2007, 07:48:36 PM
by the way....this software is getting better and better and walking in the way to become the best electronic layouts|schematic software ever!!!! with stylish components too!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: s.r.v. on December 06, 2007, 09:29:52 PM
this is really cool! i can almost use it, except there are no traces for the perf board. Can you add that next?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 06, 2007, 10:51:04 PM
still no copper traces in that version, but it will be, soon. Boards are also unusable...hold on :)

scaesic: these (green) rulers are just for reference, I plan to add a component that will measure distance between any two points...

btw, thanks for encouraging comments!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 07, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
And here's new version:

http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc_alpha.zip

Changes:


Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 07, 2007, 03:00:15 PM
check this out

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc11.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 07, 2007, 03:10:05 PM
nice.

not had much time to play with the new alpha. got a crash though. Dont know if it was related, i can check in cmd later, but It happened when i was trying to send a pot to the back, so i could attach a wire to the terminal.

it didint really crash completely, the program just froze up so i couldnt select anythign other than the X to close the program.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 08, 2007, 01:19:29 PM
There's definetly a problem on my pc with sending a pot to the back if it's on top of an enclosure. Must be some kind of conflict going on between the two.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 08, 2007, 02:01:00 PM
you're right, it's the same here...I'll rectify
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 08, 2007, 02:16:49 PM
I fixed it. By the way, you can't send pot to the back of the enclosure anyways, they are in different ZOrder classes.

Here's more info.

Class 0 - enclosures
Class 1 - boards
Class 2 - solder pads, traces, eyelets
Class 3 - components, wires.

I think that makes more sense
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 08, 2007, 03:47:43 PM
I fixed it. By the way, you can't send pot to the back of the enclosure anyways, they are in different ZOrder classes.

Here's more info.

Class 0 - enclosures
Class 1 - boards
Class 2 - solder pads, traces, eyelets
Class 3 - components, wires.

I think that makes more sense
Cool.


Yeah, i wasnt trying to send it to the back of the enclosure,the ordering does make sense, i was trying to send it behind a wire, but the whole thing was on top of an enclosure. Even if you can't send it to the back, it's better that it doesnt deal with the conflict by crashing, better to find out now than later.


Only thing i can think may be worth considering, is having wires as class 4?
Anyways, i still cant express how appreciative i, and everyone else here, is, that you've taken so much time to write this thing.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 08, 2007, 07:33:38 PM
*edit* Or you could go one step more and have all offboard stuff (wires, switches, pots) as class 4.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 08, 2007, 08:43:12 PM
It's my pleasure to give back something to DIY community I learned so much from.

As for component classes, it's trivial to change. Open any XML component file and you'll see zOrder property in the first line. It defines class. The beauty of modular engine :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 08, 2007, 11:13:25 PM
I have just released new alpha, here's http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip . Try BOM button, it creates editable table with all component parts with ability to save to HTML. I just added that feature, it's probably not perfect. Ideas are highly welcome. Most components are improved, few added. check out twisted wires, that one is the most complicated math-wise so far. Also, components now contain part# property that's used to create BOM. It's nice to have mouser part # or something when looking at BOM. Most components now have floating label attached. I did that just by using existing engine: just with additional control point that controls only text position. By dragging that control point you can set text wherever you wish. It doesn't work quite well for capacitors or similar 2-point components because when you change just one point text point will not move, but it's good enough for now.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 09, 2007, 08:42:28 AM
BOM gives me something slightly odd. Instead of creating new entries, i have

Encosure, C1, IC1, VR1, C2 - for the first entry. Resistors come up in their own entry so that seems ok.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 09, 2007, 09:37:19 AM
yeah, it collapses by value and since enclosure's don't have a value (and you probably didn't fill in value for VR and C) so it  puts them in the same row.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Styxx on December 09, 2007, 09:49:16 AM
And here's new version:

http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc_alpha.zip

Changes:

  • Added rulers, in both inches and cm
  • Some new component(s), can't remember which :)
  • All components are 100% opaque by default but you can change transparency for most of them.
  • Few minor improvements...

Cheers

Sorry, how do I go about installing that?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 09, 2007, 09:50:44 AM
And here's new version:

http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc_alpha.zip

Changes:

  • Added rulers, in both inches and cm
  • Some new component(s), can't remember which :)
  • All components are 100% opaque by default but you can change transparency for most of them.
  • Few minor improvements...

Cheers

Sorry, how do I go about installing that?

Unzip and double click the jar file.

Thats assuming you have java installed, if not go to the sun website and install.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 09, 2007, 09:51:43 AM
yeah, it collapses by value and since enclosure's don't have a value (and you probably didn't fill in value for VR and C) so it  puts them in the same row.

In that case it works fine.


Is there a way to attach the seperate wires on the twisted wires component?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Styxx on December 09, 2007, 09:56:47 AM
Unzip and double click the jar file.

Thats assuming you have java installed, if not go to the sun website and install.

Ace, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 09, 2007, 10:29:03 AM
Is there a way to attach the seperate wires on the twisted wires component?

yeah, just create separate single wires and put them together. See this:

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/wires.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: mdh on December 09, 2007, 03:01:06 PM
I don't know if anyone else is tracking this project under Linux, but I'm happy to report that the latest alpha runs and seems to function correctly (I'm not sure of all of the features) on Ubuntu Dapper.  GNU Java in Dapper is version 1.4.2, so you have to install Sun Java 5.  The easiest way to do this in Dapper is to activate the multiverse repository and install the sun-java5-* packages.  The binaries will end up residing in  /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun/bin/, so you will probably want to make a link to java in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin.

Thanks for all the work, Bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 09, 2007, 04:29:26 PM
thanks for reporting that mdh, great to know!
take care
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on December 09, 2007, 06:20:38 PM
It also works fine for me on linux using Slackware 12 with java 6.

Any news on when vero will work? I've also noticed that you don't seem to be able to rotate components like transistors and  opamps.

Looking really good though, keep up the good work, it's appreciated :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 09, 2007, 06:33:26 PM
I've also noticed that you don't seem to be able to rotate components like transistors and  opamps.
Double right click and change the angle property. Banicka said he was going to implement this better later though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on December 09, 2007, 06:41:53 PM
Cheers, that works fine.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Rmanen on December 10, 2007, 06:56:19 PM
It works great on Mac OSX Tiger. Nice program
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 10, 2007, 07:15:27 PM
First off I want to say thank you for doing this. It is simply amazing that you would do it and distribute it for free!

Second, I have been using the non-java version for a little while now and it seems to work really well except that it is really slow on my PC.
I thought I would try the Java version to see if it ran better and it does. Tons smoother and faster. Plus it is just 100x better.
The only thing is I don't use Perf or Strip. I etch. Am I missing something or is it not possible to do a PCB and export it to PNP yet?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 10, 2007, 10:04:59 PM
Also in the Java version I can't open up an existing file. I get an error, "file format not recognized."  I have tried a few different files (Perf, Strip, and PCB).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Barcode80 on December 10, 2007, 11:27:35 PM
great stuff bancika! some questions...

does the new version light up the traces when you highlight them? like if i go to the dropdown list for solder pads in the old version, it would light up the solder pad so i knew which one i was messing with. never worked on traces for me, which was difficult :)

also, is the undo multi-layered in this version?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 11, 2007, 08:26:00 AM
bside2234: no PCB stuff yet, but there will be. Note that it's still in alpha development stage. And you can't open old files. This version has much more advanced engine which is too far from the old one. After I release first production version I'll try to make a converter of some kind, but still, it's not easy...

Barcode80: yeah, new traces will light up when you click on them. I don't think we'll need component list now because it will be possible to do everything with mouse directly: select, drag&drop, change properties, etc.

still no undo, but it will be there very soon.

Cheers all and thanks for trying DIYLC...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 11, 2007, 10:02:35 AM
I understand. I was just wondering if I was missing something.

This new version is soooooooooooo much better than the older one. I can't wait until it is fully operational!

I don't think you need a component list either as long as you are able to select more than one object with ctrl or something.

Thank you again for doing this!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 11, 2007, 10:10:25 AM
currently you can select more than one component with good ol' selection rectangle, a'la windows explorer. But I'll add ctrl selection too.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 11, 2007, 10:12:43 AM
Your Awesome!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 12, 2007, 09:04:22 AM
Next up will be undo function (unlimited).

How do you guys fill about zoom in/out?
It's not easy to implement and I don't want DIYLC to have many options that are not likely to be used, so I'm asking you for opinion. Is it worth it?

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 12, 2007, 10:23:52 AM
Zoom might be nice but I don't know if it would be too necessary.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Kornell on December 12, 2007, 01:15:29 PM
How do you guys fill about zoom in/out? Is it worth it?

To me it is NOT necessary,at least I won't miss it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: 96ecss on December 12, 2007, 01:31:47 PM
I don't really see the need for zoom.

Dave
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 12, 2007, 02:15:52 PM
I don't really see the need for zoom.

Dave

I think i agree, only reason for it would be for BIG circuits, but people tend to have bigger monitors and resolutions now, so if you get the scale right then you should be able to get away without it. the most you'd ever need would be say 120% and 80%. But im not convinced its needed.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 12, 2007, 02:32:05 PM
yeah, but if you have a large project you can always scroll. I have two 19" LCDs joined together at work, so don't have that problem anyways :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 12, 2007, 03:37:09 PM
How 'bout some tubes :)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/tubes.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Styxx on December 12, 2007, 04:28:45 PM
Not sure if you're aware of this, when I tried to use the program I couldn't get veroboard to come up, just came up with a blue dot
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 12, 2007, 04:31:02 PM
yeah, I know. It's fixed.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Styxx on December 12, 2007, 04:31:48 PM
Oh, ok, fair enough :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 12, 2007, 06:12:01 PM
yeah, but if you have a large project you can always scroll. I have two 19" LCDs joined together at work, so don't have that problem anyways :)

well i have a 23 inch widescreen, so i don't have that problem either :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 12, 2007, 06:13:28 PM
How 'bout some tubes :)

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/tubes.jpg)

if you keep adding all this there wont be anything left for us to add once its final release!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 13, 2007, 04:32:30 PM
this thing is getting incredible!!!
Bancika..i salute you..youīre a f***ing genius man!!!!!

i canīt wait for the PCB features!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 13, 2007, 04:55:19 PM
thanks man, I appreciate it.
Tonight I'll try to push new alpha out with undo, few new components and improved speed.
Cheers!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 13, 2007, 11:22:18 PM
Here it is http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
I didn't work much on it these days, but it's got a few improvements. Printing is almost there, I still didn't scale it right and place it on the paper, though.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 14, 2007, 03:18:51 AM
Just tried the new Alpha. Just keeps getting better!
Thanks for the PCB board!

Suggestions:
Single solder pads
Resistor standing on end
The ability to view/toggle just the traces/pads as some of the components kind of get in the way when making a tight board and it's hard to see what I am doing.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 14, 2007, 07:53:25 AM

The ability to view/toggle just the traces/pads as some of the components kind of get in the way when making a tight board and it's hard to see what I am doing.



maybe a transparency feature can help with that..
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 14, 2007, 08:23:23 AM
I could add a feature to show components from 1st and 2nd z-class only. That would include boards, pads, traces, eyelets and stuff like that.
Or something similar...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 14, 2007, 10:15:16 AM
I think that would be a good feature.

Wow! It runs so smooth and fast compared to the old version. Thank you so much.

Add the ability to transfer a schematic to PCB and I might just have to remove Eagle from my computer! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 14, 2007, 10:31:37 AM
Add the ability to transfer a schematic to PCB and I might just have to remove Eagle from my computer! :icon_mrgreen:

That one's not easy at all  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 14, 2007, 11:04:06 AM
I know. It would be cool though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 14, 2007, 11:43:53 AM
It's still drawing-only engine, it doesn't know about relations between objects. There are many cool things to add which are way out of scope for this project, like real-time sound processing so you can hear the pedal without building it. how cool is that? :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 14, 2007, 02:13:53 PM
That would be too cool! I can't wait for this version to be usable. I like the old version but it just lags on my computer so bad.

I can't say, "Thank you" enough for doing this. It's amazing!

In the old version, when I export a PNP image there is a black box/square around the board. Is that necessary and is there any way to get around it without going into photoshop or illustrator to get rid of it?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 14, 2007, 03:49:29 PM
my pleasure, mate. I'm glad to return something to DIY community. Also, I'm really glad that this one will be usable for tube stuff (amps) as well. I'm regular at ax84.com and it's nice for those guys to have their piece of cake :)
as for black rectangle, in the old version - no :(
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 14, 2007, 04:26:03 PM
I have been thinking about building a tube amp. I have a Marshall 2203 and have been wanting to build a 2204 for home use but the high voltage thing kinda freaks me out. I have been nailed by electricity too many times.  :o

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 14, 2007, 04:33:07 PM
yeah, I got hit twice just because I was stupid: once I forgot to plug out from the wall and bam - 220V in both hands, luckily I touched the same wire with both hands so it didn't go through heart. Next time I used ground lift for standby and I was holding one hand on guitar string trying to turn the amp on. Strings were floating at 180VAC, switch was at ground and bam - 180V from one hand to the other...not pleasant at all  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 15, 2007, 08:01:29 PM
hey, i just tested the newer version..man..is faboulus!!!!!!!
great speed for working, transparency feature for parts, control select, rotation, draft mode (cool for speeding things some more) pretty good parts library..congrats!!!

a few comments for making it a bit better..i maybe youré already working on this:

- Parts dont have a solder pad when making a PCB..maybe a "PCB MODE" button that adds solder pads to the parts..
- single solder pads for input, output, etc are missing from the library...
- a scroll for the library wont be bad...
- Jacks and switches simbols and icons
- ledīs, and LDR simbols/icons
- a layer select (board/parts/traces)
- Logic symbols (at least inverters for 4069īs CMOS)
- Trimmers
- A pcb only image export..like "ready to transfer"
i hope it helps!!
greetings
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 15, 2007, 11:29:16 PM
Hey Daniel,

thanks for kind words and suggestions. I'll go one by one

Quote
- Parts dont have a solder pad when making a PCB..maybe a "PCB MODE" button that adds solder pads to the parts..

yeah, still no solder pads. I try not to make too many components until I'm happy with component engine. these days, with every release I change something in component engine which means I have to change every component file to make it work with new engine. Having many components makes it hard.

Quote
- single solder pads for input, output, etc are missing from the library...

the same goes here, it will be there.

Quote
- a scroll for the library wont be bad...

yeah, good catch. I have large monitor so I never noticed that. Will do it.

Quote
- Jacks and switches simbols and icons

the same here

Quote
- ledīs, and LDR simbols/icons

and here

Quote
- a layer select (board/parts/traces)

can you explain more in detail what would you like. I plan to do it but must approach it with few more ideas besides mine.
Quote
- Logic symbols (at least inverters for 4069īs CMOS)

will be there...

Quote
- Trimmers

that too.

Quote
- A pcb only image export..like "ready to transfer"

this could be related to layer view or something like that.  I really don't want program to "know" in advance about it's components, so I have to do it delicately. If traces and pads are in one z-class selecting only that class and doing standard export would do the trick, right?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 16, 2007, 09:31:33 AM
this could be related to layer view or something like that.  I really don't want program to "know" in advance about it's components, so I have to do it delicately. If traces and pads are in one z-class selecting only that class and doing standard export would do the trick, right?

Yeah, except you'd need the mirror wouldnt you?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 16, 2007, 10:25:40 AM
not for PnP, I think...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 16, 2007, 06:01:12 PM
is not necessary a mirrored image for transfer...but i think better resolution is needed...

bancika, about layers...simply a trace/parts/both switch will do..

and i dont know if is much to ask but i would be great if when you move a part, the traces moves too...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 16, 2007, 06:16:25 PM
Quote
is not necessary a mirrored image for transfer...but i think better resolution is needed...

I don't think resolution will be an issue when you print directly from the application, it appears that Java prints drawings with higher resolution. Try to print something and you'll see. It's not aligned well (and maybe scaled well) but you'll get the point.

bancika, about layers...simply a trace/parts/both switch will do..

and i dont know if is much to ask but i would be great if when you move a part, the traces moves too...

see, that's the problem. For both of these tasks program would have to know in advance about trace component, which breaks the base of my component engine: components should be independent of application.
For second item, I'll see if I could introduce relations between components (saying, resistor is related with solder pad and it automatically creates it), but it's still something I don't like too much. Components would have to know about each other, which sucks...

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 17, 2007, 08:01:10 AM
well i donīt know what you mean by "knowing in advance".. is something like loading the parts on the memory?..

and i donīt know if youre using a database or a text file or what to make this thing run..but i thought that was just filtering the layout like "select parts from engine where part_type=pcbtrace"..but obviously youre using a much more advanced approach...

well iīm just a dirty diper baby compared to you as far as programming concerns  :icon_redface: :icon_redface: :icon_redface:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 08:39:18 AM
the thing is, program does not know that it will have trace or or any other component installed at all. Everything is made completely abstract, layout is defined as an array or components. Component is abstract "thing" defined by two parts: component definition from XML file and component implementation from DIY file (user defined settings, like component value, position in the layout etc). So it shouldn't know or care if it has or does not have component X installed, it treats them all the same anyways. Currently, none of component names (like trace, resistor, tube) are mentioned in the source code *ever*. This change would require me to hard code something like you have written part_type=pcbtrace which is exactly the thing I'd like to avoid. And here's why: say I do hard code it today and tomorrow I come up with the idea to add solder pads. Besides making new XML file component I'd have to change the program as well because pads should be also visible when you export PCB. The day after that something else might come up, like I decide to rename pcbtrace component - another code change. Sounds messy and harder to maintain, right?
But, as I mentioned before, if you could toggle every layer on and off this could be done nicely and clean. Traces and pads are drawn in the same layer so selecting only that layer would give you what you need. Any clearer?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 17, 2007, 10:35:56 AM
yes.. i see, the layer approach is much better..
As i understood what you said..
the drawings are abstract, no special attributes for any component, just xml code interpreted as a drawing, not as a bunch of parts..

si, yes, the only way is to separate components and traces by layers, two or more xml drawings one over the other.. i see..

that approach is very efficient i think, but it difficults to make relationships between parts, therefore, it works just like a drawing tool with a library.. wich is really great!!!

but consider the potential of letting the code to know whatīs what and interacts with what..  for example we could collaboratively, make a set of object rules..like "opamp must have V+ and gnd connected" or "R9 is not connected to anything" or "The drain of this fet is connected to ground"..

I know, i know..is beyond scope... but shows the potential of you GREAT work!!!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 10:49:01 AM
Yeah, having relations would be the next step, but I'll have to think really hard how to make it good enough not to break any of good stuff I got with this engine so far.
The first problem with it I see is, how to describe relations in component model?? Relations could be quite complex.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 17, 2007, 11:06:50 AM
well..
dont try to implement it yet, or even try to think about it..just go on making your ideas work fine..

is so typical when SW projects crash when trying to satisfy every stakeholder....the goal here is to make a useful tool for Diyers to make their own PCBīs and layouts..not a super duper complete tool...leave that for tomorrow..

iīll bet we all prefer a simpler, good working tool, over a tool full of features that works no so good..
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
good point, lets finish drawing model first. Once most of people are happy with what it can do, I could try to implement more complex stuff with one limit: not to screw up what's already there. That should be ok.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 17, 2007, 01:46:09 PM
good point, lets finish drawing model first. Once most of people are happy with what it can do, I could try to implement more complex stuff with one limit: not to screw up what's already there. That should be ok.

here's just an idea, dunno if you've thoguht of it before.

When people move a component they want the trace to stay connected, but this requires the component parts to be coupled in a way which makes the program more complicated.

Here's a partial solution - have components drawn with pcb pads attached on the end of their leads (which you could turn on/off in the properties of the component - because you dont need a pcb pad if you're drawing a vero/strip). That way if you want to shift a resistor along a length of trace, then the pcb pad moves with it, if you move it off the trace you'll just have to re-draw the trace. which seems fine to me as moving a resistor along a length of pre-exsisting trace should be irrelevent, but moving it to an abitrary point requires a little more thought - hence it shouldnt be a problem to re-draw the trace.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 01:56:45 PM
your idea is good from the standpoint of relations between components. But I don't like it for two reasons:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 17, 2007, 02:12:41 PM
your idea is good from the standpoint of relations between components. But I don't like it for two reasons:
  • Those solder pads would be a part of resistor and would belong to the same drawing layer, so it would make complicated to "extract" just the PCB part of the layout for export
  • Related with the previous, those pads would have nothing in common with "regular" pads you would create from the menu, so we loose in consistency...

your first point is a very good one, but i dont think it'd be impossible.

The second point i'm not convinced on, surely this would mean that the pcb pad component then becomes a means to input/output/offboard wiring only, which has a different function and doesnt necesarily NEED to be consistent, and it'd cut down a hell of a lot on the amount of pcb pads you'd need to place. Despite this, if they were aesthetically identical, then would it make a differece?


In any case, this is just for arguments sake, i don't think it's necessary at all.

a second partial solution: have the program automatically place the pcb pad component where the lead ends are - i knwo this requires some coupling which you want to avoid though.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 17, 2007, 02:18:22 PM
bancika, please dont let us place the solder pads for each part!!! we will go crazy!!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 03:06:02 PM
bancika, please dont let us place the solder pads for each part!!! we will go crazy!!!

haha, I hope you won't have to :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on December 17, 2007, 04:21:35 PM
 :icon_rolleyes: i think is a must...
just imaging placing 140 solder pads..ouch!!!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 04:33:41 PM
Another thing that makes it little more complicated. How can we know if we need to create child pads or not? Boards are treated just like any other components, so there's no way to know if we have PCB or stripboard (you can have both at the same time). It would be annoying to create pads all time, imagine deleting 140 pads you didn't want :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 17, 2007, 06:28:40 PM
It would be annoying to create pads all time, imagine deleting 140 pads you didn't want :icon_lol:

Except you could have an option to turn the auto creation off, you could call it "pcb mode".
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 17, 2007, 07:29:10 PM
I'll have to think about it and get back to you guys, really don't want to make whole thing more complicated than it has to be.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 18, 2007, 05:55:43 PM
I placed new alpha here http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
A few new components added (hope you like them), few smaller improvements, combo box support for component properties (so now you can choose font style, jack type and stuff like that), metric ruler is more precise, library is scrollable, etc.
Hope you like it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 18, 2007, 08:38:30 PM
one thing i'd really like. If the ascii delete key worked to delete items.
Drop down list of fonts would be good too.

otherwise, the library is becoming pretty full.

something that i find pretty weird is, if you continually rotate an item using the rotate button, it'll go for a walk across the screen, nothing to worry about unless you continually roatate items.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 18, 2007, 09:10:43 PM
yeah, keyboard ceased to work when I introduce scrollbox, before that delete and arrow keys were working just fine...I'll fix that.
As far as rotation is concerned, it's not a simple issue. Consider simple component like trace, contained of two control points. When you try to rotate it, program will choose center of trace but rounded to the nearest grid node. Without rounding you could end up with points not aligned to the grid once you rotate. So the problem is when distance between points is an odd number. Also, problem is when you have more than one control point, like schematic symbols. They have two points + one point for text. Program finds center of triangle formed by those 3 points and rotates around it. With current engine, it's not possible to exclude control point when rotating.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 19, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
I just moved whole toolbar to main menu, seems more standard to me. What do you think?
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc12.jpg)
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 19, 2007, 05:34:39 PM
Not really sure which I like better. Probably up in the main menu is better because it's out of the way.

I have been playing around with your new alpha. Just keeps getting better and better. My favorite part is being able to drag and drop!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 19, 2007, 05:35:40 PM
I just moved whole toolbar to main menu, seems more standard to me. What do you think?
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/diylc12.jpg)
Cheers

Think generally its a good move.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 19, 2007, 05:42:00 PM
tnx
btw, keyboard is back in business :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 19, 2007, 06:44:02 PM
Honestly, I didn't even know there were any keyboard function keys :icon_eek:

I guess I will have to play around some more. Is it just the arrow keys and enter or are there more (besides entering component values/names)?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 19, 2007, 07:13:17 PM
it doesn't work in the current alpha, next release will have that
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 19, 2007, 07:43:33 PM
Ok! Cool! Looking forward to the next release!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 03:41:06 PM
anyone has some samples of jacks drawn well I can use as a reference?
I need 3 types for starters:

* those plastic boxed, view from the top
* standard open jacks, side view
* standard open jacks, "inside" view. I need these to be used for exploded enclosures

thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Roobin on December 20, 2007, 04:13:14 PM
Great stuff Bancika. I'm using it at the moment for a Power Supply Project, and it's looking far cleaner and more useable than before (which was already very good!). Just a few little comments-

- Would it be possible to enter a hexadecimal code for the colour of wires, since they appear like that in the box? It would save time picking a colour, then seeing if it matches, etc.

- The save button and save as buttons do the same thing.

- Would it be possible to have, in addition to the jack sockets, a DC socket of some sort? Also, are there any plans for a trimmer?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 04:19:53 PM
I'll try to address all of those issues, there will be jacks and trimmers (and more components), hang on :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 05:49:41 PM
New alpha is up, link http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_alpha.zip
Changes:

* new main menu instead of vertical toolbar
* keyboard shortcuts work
* few more components
* improved color editor
* ability to lock one or more layers, useful when you're done playing with board/enclosure and want to treat them as a background

let me know what you think
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 20, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
doesnt seem to be an updated version...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 09:30:31 PM
oh yeah, try this one http://www.storm-software.co.yu/temp/diylc_alpha.zip
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: andrew_k on December 20, 2007, 09:36:33 PM
If it's Java, is there any chance of getting an OS X version? Having to fire up an XP VM just to run this is a real pain :(

Thanks for all your efforts  ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 09:59:40 PM
you can run it wherever you have java 1.5 or newer
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dellamorte on December 20, 2007, 10:12:16 PM
the alpha version linked above runs in java works like a charm :) using it now on my mbp
thanks bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 20, 2007, 11:10:12 PM
whatever mbp is, I'm happy for it :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on December 21, 2007, 02:03:35 AM
couple questions, and i apologize if these have been asked/answered already:

why no component list below the board anymore?

is there any way to hide the grid? my printer is going to print that grid when i print the image.

is there going to be an option to export only the pcb pattern?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: andrew_k on December 21, 2007, 02:49:26 AM
you can run it wherever you have java 1.5 or newer
cheers

WOOOO!!! Awesomeness in the extreme. THANKS!

(P.S. mbp = macbookpro)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 08:15:52 AM
couple questions, and i apologize if these have been asked/answered already:

why no component list below the board anymore?

is there any way to hide the grid? my printer is going to print that grid when i print the image.

is there going to be an option to export only the pcb pattern?

in the order of appearance:

* because you have export BOM now, which should be better. I'll think about making component list optional (and movable) if people think it's needed

* not at the moment but it will be possible

* the same as previous

cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Roobin on December 21, 2007, 08:21:04 AM
I was just playing around with it, and I noticed a few things (don't worry, it's not more 'can's!):

- The save button does work, once you've closed the project and re-opened your file
- After some time (and a lot of wires...they're sooo addictive!), background music/whatever starts to get sluggish and breaks up. But if you close DIYLC and re-open your project, it goes back to performing normally.

P.s. Just noticed newer version, haven't tried this stuff on it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 12:02:34 PM
It wasn't save that didn't work, but load :) Anyways, I fixed it. Next version will have option to group/ungroup selection.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Roobin on December 21, 2007, 12:16:00 PM
Load doesn't work?? In which version? Because it does in mine...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 12:21:56 PM
It loads fine but you can't select anything after you load.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: wampcat1 on December 21, 2007, 02:01:59 PM
this may have been covered already but is there any chance of having more than one level of "undo"?
bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 02:15:01 PM
how do you mean? you can go back without any limits...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: wampcat1 on December 21, 2007, 02:42:52 PM
how do you mean? you can go back without any limits...

Maybe I have an old version... I only have one level of 'undo'...

I have the one "released 18.10.2006"

bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 02:48:25 PM
that one should work ok as well.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: wampcat1 on December 21, 2007, 02:52:15 PM
that one should work ok as well.

Unfortunately, it only does "undo" once. after that, it won't undo anymore...
bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 21, 2007, 03:05:08 PM
I know atm the app is still in production so it's pointless asking just now, but how hard is it going to be to make your own components? is there going to be a small tutorial online, or is there already websites that we can use just now?

One component that still need updated is the opamp schematic. it has no legs.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 21, 2007, 03:12:34 PM
I could put together a tutorial, should take  too much time and it's not too hard. Check out those XML files and I'm sure you could figure out how it works just by looking at existing components.

Edit: but only when I'm happy with component engine and don't have plans to modify it...which is still not the case :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on December 22, 2007, 02:31:26 AM
i have to disagree with the BOM being a suitable replacement for the component list. if i am hosting my layouts on a photo site or something, i have nowhere to put a BOM. how about both?

also, i can't even FIND the undo on the java version.

that one should work ok as well.

Unfortunately, it only does "undo" once. after that, it won't undo anymore...
bw

this is true of my version of the base software as well. brian, it should be noted that most of the discussion has now moved to developing the java version of the software, so i don't think bancika is going to fix that little bug in the old exe one.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 22, 2007, 10:08:27 AM
if you're talking about old version, I don't have intentions of making updates for it. Java version will be up soon.
I don't have source code for old version here, nor do I have delphi...
As for undo, it was there until last version, I forgot to move it to main menu...will be fixed.
I'll try to add BOM inside image option.

cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dumbmonkey on December 22, 2007, 11:10:28 AM
Hello.
As a newcomer to the building game, I have been itching to try this software out.  I would love to be able to learn how to create my own layouts and have been experimenting with Eagle but I can't seem to get my layouts to work out effectively.  As a Mac user, I haven't been able to try DIYLC until just recently, but I really like what I'm seeing so far. 
Now I need to get that book!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 22, 2007, 11:16:36 AM
what book? :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dumbmonkey on December 22, 2007, 11:21:53 AM
Ooops sorry!  I guess that's what happens when you assume...
I meant R.G.'s "PCB Layout For Musical Effects".  I'm going to order it from Small Bear after the holiday craziness is over. I heard it's really helpful for learning to go from schematic to layout. 
Chris
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: wampcat1 on December 22, 2007, 08:09:39 PM
i have to disagree with the BOM being a suitable replacement for the component list. if i am hosting my layouts on a photo site or something, i have nowhere to put a BOM. how about both?

also, i can't even FIND the undo on the java version.

that one should work ok as well.

Unfortunately, it only does "undo" once. after that, it won't undo anymore...
bw

this is true of my version of the base software as well. brian, it should be noted that most of the discussion has now moved to developing the java version of the software, so i don't think bancika is going to fix that little bug in the old exe one.

that tells you how far behind I am... I didn't even realize there was a newer version!  :icon_mrgreen:
bw
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on December 22, 2007, 08:33:45 PM
I've just done my first vero layout using the latest version, it's very nice to use and certainly a lot easier than using the GIMP which is what I was using before.
At the minute there's no trace cut symbol for vero layouts though, so I used the eyelet symbol instead which looks ok, but it would be great if this could be added.

I also noticed that if you make a resistor stand on its end so it spans 2 tracks it looks ok when you're designing the layout because you can see the dots that show the connections but when you save the layout as a png image you can't see the dots and it's not very clear where the resistor is supposed to be connected. I don't know what the best solution to this is, perhaps like someone has suggested you could have a symbol for a resistor standing on its end or keep the connections visible in the png like they are for capacitors.

Another nice feature for the future would be to be able to change the default properties of the components. For example I mostly use 5mm electo caps but the default is 8mm so I had to edit every cap I added. I got round this for now by editing the XML file for the component, but a way of doing it within the program would be nice.

Thanks again for this great program  :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 22, 2007, 11:26:09 PM
I'll make standing resistor, no problem, it's very easy.
As for default, it's probably not worth the effort to make some GUI around it since it's very easy to change XML file defaults.
Before I make first production release (btw, I think it's mature enough to go to beta soon) I'll set defaults to the most common used sizes.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: slacker on December 23, 2007, 05:17:23 PM
Cool, like you say it's easy enough to edit the XML files, if you want to.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 24, 2007, 03:46:23 PM
I just put new version here http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_beta.zip (note that it's Beta, I think it's ready for beta).
I added engine.txt which will describe component engine for those interested in making components, it's half done. Try to read it and let me know if there's something unclear.
Grouping, ungrouping works, still have to fix something small but it's nice feature. I've added few more components, improved internal structure a bit, fixed some bugs, etc.
Also, there's BAT file you can use to run the app in case you're having problems running it directly from JAR.

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: arma61 on December 25, 2007, 03:24:44 AM
first of all thx bancika for all this, second Merry Xmas to everybody, then, it's hard to check if this was already asked, anyway would it be possible to let it "keep in mind" the directory where you open, save, load picture, at the moment it just open it in Document, and everytime jump back to this position, I mean you open a file in "d:\elec...." when you want to open another file it goes back to Document.

Thx
Armando
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 25, 2007, 11:43:08 AM
I don't remember if that's brought up either...anyways, I'll make it remember last used directory.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 26, 2007, 11:42:27 AM
I don't remember if that's brought up either...anyways, I'll make it remember last used directory.
Cheers

Looking really polished, especially like the documentation.

one thing about pcb aspect: i think it'd be much easier to use the copper trace if it drew a trace between two selected points instead of generating a horizontal strip which you have to manouver around each time. I dont know if it's possible though. If it is, it'd be useful to implement this with a few other things like solder pad and eyelet (except this would only require you to select one point).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 26, 2007, 11:53:12 AM
well, I could think about making that as an option. One way, components would be placed on their default location, other way, you'd have to choose control points manually...
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on December 26, 2007, 12:56:56 PM
bancika, you are the best!

one issue i have, maybe macintosh related?
i can't open the layouts that are downloadable from your site in your new program.
is there a way for you to fix this, or will it never work?

thx again! and merry christmas
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 26, 2007, 01:22:47 PM
Thanks, nokaster!

with this version we have moved too far from the engine of the old version, so there's no way it can read old files. Once I have stable production release of new DIYLC I'll try to make some kind of external converter to convert old layouts, at least partially.

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 26, 2007, 11:36:46 PM
By the way, did anyone try printing?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 27, 2007, 01:26:15 AM
Ok. So I am trying to do a PCB. I am trying to tighten up a layout to fit into a B size enclosure better.
The objects are either normally spaced (kinda far) apart or they are on top of each other (overlapping). Is this spacing adjustable or is there anything I can do? It seems like a half space would work.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 27, 2007, 08:13:15 AM
what are you talking about?  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 27, 2007, 11:57:16 AM
what are you talking about?  :icon_mrgreen:

I'd have to concur.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 27, 2007, 12:03:22 PM
Nevermind. I guess it's ok. What I was trying to say is when you put some of the components right next to each other They are almost on top of each other. When I move it away so it isn't on top of the the other one, it is too far away. I was saying that being able to move it about half the distance would be good.
It's ok now. I looked at it a little better and it's not that bad.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 27, 2007, 12:05:45 PM
When you're holding ctrl key while dragging you can set them wherever you like without snapping to the grid
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 27, 2007, 12:08:13 PM
That's EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 27, 2007, 12:11:37 PM
I'll make this options little more explicit (menu option, ctrl will do the opposite of whatever is selected in the menu)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 27, 2007, 12:31:28 PM
I can't say enough how cool this is. Thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on December 27, 2007, 12:52:28 PM
theres one component that really needs to be added seeing as this is a beta,  a trace cut symbol, its been suggested before but maybe i just cant see it on the menu or you've forgotten about it.

Also, legs for opamp schematic :) and a Component part number on/off toggle could be useful.

Saving, opening and printing a png file works fine for me. havnt printed any of the pngs to paper yet. Is there a way to show only one z order/layer? for example show just the traces? I presume this could be done easily by having a button which sets everything on other z orders to be 100% transparent.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on December 27, 2007, 02:04:11 PM
Not a big deal but is it possible to make the traces have round corners? When you do thick traces at 45 degrees there are 2 points sticking out of the intersection.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 27, 2007, 02:36:20 PM
I'll make both changes, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on December 29, 2007, 06:21:24 AM
First off thank you for the software.  Did 2 layouts so far.  I noticed on my macbook pro that after using the program for a while it kinda stops reacting and gets real slow.  I have been able to save and quit then restart the program and work again until it "krunks out" again.  Otherwise I really like it and have been able to use it and photoshop to make a cpl boards. 

I was going to ask for show/hide layers but I see it just came up.  Also the lock function doesn't seem to be working in the last ver I got but I think it was working in a previous one.

Thanks again bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: mydementia on December 29, 2007, 10:04:23 AM
Bane - Great work (as usual)!
I just downloaded the Beta (12/29am) and really like the new look/feel.  When I clicked the 'Update Library' button in the 'Help' menu, it looked like it updated the library to v1.1, but I get a startup error saying 'The following component files could not be processed: <path>\diylc_beta\library\new.xml - These files were ignored!'.  I click OK and the program opens just fine...

A few notes since your still in development:
1  When the user changes units to 'in' (using the toggle in the upper left corner) it would be nice if all units were changed to inches (those of us on this side of the pond don't tend to think in mm).
2  Is there a 'save preferences' feature?  I notice that each time I start up, I need to change the units back to 'in' and move the library bar back the far edge - not a big deal.  Would be nice to be able to 'anchor' the library bar...
3  Regarding 'save preferences', I like 0.4-inch spacing for my resistors and 0.3-inch spacing for my caps - everything seems to come in with 0.5-inch spacing.  How do I tell DIYLC that I want to always use my preferred spacing?  Maybe this won't be such a big deal when copy and paste works... bug?
4  A normal transformer symbol would be nice - multi-tap capability would be really nice :)
5  In the beta, I cannot use the ctrl button for shortcuts (copying and pasting and undoing).  Probably a little bug.  It would be nice if ctrl-R rotated the selected component too... (maybe ctrl-R for CW and ctrl-L for CCW?)
6  Labeling schematic symbols - for completeness, I like to add pinout labels to my tubes, opamps, and FETs when I make schematics.  I guess I could simply add text... but it would be really cool to add the symbol to the 'Properties' window with boxes for text/numbering input.  I'm specifically looking at a tube right now and think it would really help.
7  Is there a 'create project' feature?  I like the schematic, layout, and BOM all on one sheet (easier to trouble-shoot).  I could see creating or inserting in a schematic and creating a layout, but it doesn't look like there's an easy way to add the BOM (without exporting it as an image and importing it back in).  The ability to resize imported images would be nice too.
8  I have a dumb question... what's the intention of layers? 

I can't wait to start using this new version - so much more dynamic and capable than the last one... which was excellent!
Great work!  Thanks so much.
Mike
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 29, 2007, 10:45:03 AM
bingewood, I have just tried and locking works...are you sure?

about library update, yeah, I put some phony component on the site just to make sure update works...don't worry about that.

mydementia, lets see
1. will think about that, not simlpe.
2. will add saving preferences eventually
3. not simple either. It's easy if you want to open component XML file (in library folder) and change <points> node, that's default
4. yeah, that's gonna be there
5. shortcuts work only when main window is in the focus, still don't work when library is focused
6. ok
7. I'll think
8. IMO having layers is very important, for 2 reasons:
a) to keep components in logical z-order, so that you don't draw enclosure at the top of components and don't see anything below.
b) it's really necessary to have that in my abstract component model. When we come to exporting PCB board alone, program would have to know in advance about pcb trace, solder pads and whatnot else and say somehow that we should export only those. With layers, it's sufficient to dedicate one layer to all these components that make surface of pcb and then just show that layer when exporting. That's very elegant and later changes/additions don't require any program changes, just component update.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on December 30, 2007, 01:37:27 AM
I tried it again and the lock works on a new proj but when I open a saved proj it doesn't work.  It shows the check mark next to layer I choose but doesn't lock.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 30, 2007, 01:42:20 AM
I'll investigate, thanks!
By the way, I've been working on major code re-organization to make it better written (remember, I'm learning Java with this project, it's my first). As a result we have two cool changes:
a) when you double click on component in the library it's created on the center of visible part of the layout, not fixed position.
b) you can drag component from library to the layout and it's created exactly where you dragged it to.
Stay tuned.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on December 30, 2007, 02:17:04 AM
Noice! Thnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 30, 2007, 11:49:06 AM
yeah, you're right...I'm gonna have to redo the layer locking thing, it's sloppy.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hgamal on December 31, 2007, 07:10:05 AM
I am running on Fedora 7 and it is very good. I have some issues:

  - every time I move some component or change one of its leads the properties box shows up, I need to close and continue. Does it happen running under Windows?;
  - does not exist led component (I am using diodes);
  - does not exist cut track component (somebody has told it before);
  - I miss the board marks on perfboard showing the positions of holes (like the old software does);
  - Is there a way to print the perforated board, including the cut tracks, by the solder view. It could be very helpful!
  - After some time the software became very slow, after restart, it comes fast again.

Even with this few problems, it is a very good software and run fine on linux. Congratulations.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 31, 2007, 08:14:06 AM
  - every time I move some component or change one of its leads the properties box shows up, I need to close and continue. Does it happen running under Windows?;

hmm, shouldn't work like that. Properties should show up only on double click. I'll check if that's something platform related...

  - After some time the software became very slow, after restart, it comes fast again.

few other people complained about that. I don't know much about java, but it probably doesn't clean up memory or I have some memory leaks...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hgamal on December 31, 2007, 08:24:04 AM
One more problem: "resitor standing" components are not showed in the BOM!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 31, 2007, 09:50:28 AM
ok, it's a trivial fix :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 01, 2008, 11:41:31 AM
Black wires = Bendy traces
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 01, 2008, 04:01:37 PM
yeah, but it's a hack and it's not gonna be displayed when PCB is exported (see the story on layouts). It's very easy to make dedicated bendy trace component which will work right.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 01, 2008, 07:41:43 PM
I gotz my workarounds. Dedicated bendys would be kool.  Makes fer some cool routing.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 02, 2008, 11:25:55 AM
how about this :)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/curved_traces.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Roobin on January 02, 2008, 02:47:04 PM
Has anyone managed to get DIYLC 2 running in Debian/Ubuntu? hgamal, I've seen that you've managed to get it running under Fedora.

And those bendy traces look cool!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 02, 2008, 04:56:46 PM
How about transformer symbol with ability to set number of primaries and secondaries  :icon_wink:
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c22/bancika/transformer_symbol.jpg)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 02, 2008, 06:52:57 PM
Dig those bendys!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: arma61 on January 03, 2008, 06:01:23 AM
Hi, how do you let the traces keep connected to a component? I mean you move the component and all traces connected to its pins remain connected to it increasing or decresing length or changing angles, is this possible?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 09:56:57 AM
at the moment no, there is no interaction between components. Next option I'll add is "sticky points" which means that moving/stretching component will also move components that are linked to it.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: arma61 on January 03, 2008, 11:56:26 AM
ok, thx B.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: c101aviojet on January 03, 2008, 01:18:07 PM
First of all Barnislav, thanks for your effort and time! ;) It's helping me "translate" a Lovetone schematic into a layout.
I have a couple of suggestions, I hope I'm not repeating them for the n-th time. Perhaps you find them useful in some way and can implement some.

1- Add "rotary switch tool" (the typical Lorlin 12 pin switch would be great). While having the "rotary switch" tool selected, it would be nice to see a circle around the pointer to have an idea of the space required.
2- Add "hole tool", which would allow you to simply make a X size hole in the PCB. Useful to fix it inside the enclosure (with a nylon stand-off mount, for example).
3- Add adjustable size for solder pads and traces, to solder outboard wires or draw traceds which carry a certain power, for example.
4- Improve speed. For some reason, the program gets very, very slow when the PCB grows a bit (at least, that's what happens to me).
5- Add "photocell" and "photocell+LED tool".
6- Be able to change the grid size. Sometimes, I feel the need to place a component "halfway" between two more as you see in many PCBs. If the grid spacing could be made smaller, then that would be possible.
7- This one may be particularly stupid, but... how about using a certain picture as background? That way, you could "copy" a layout quite easily. You should be able to move and resize the image to make it match the pads.
8- Add "tag tool". It would add a small, visible, lightly coloured note pointing to the selected component, for example, "to 9V+ input" in a solder pad.
9- Be able to select several items at once in the PCB, the same way you can select several icons in a windows desktop.
10- Component size changes according to its ratings. For example, should you specify a 2W resistor instead of the typical 1/4W one, then by defect it would require a spacing of 6 pads and it's size would grow accordingly.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 01:27:56 PM
regarding all "Add this component, add that component" requests: folks, remember that we're still in development stage, I'm changing engine pretty often and that requires updating all component files. More files I have, more work and time I need for updating these files. I try to keep component count to minimum that allows me to test engine realistically.
Also, I told this before, but let's repeat: do NOT use this version to draw anything you plan using later, you won't be able to open layout files even with the next beta I plan to release. However, it's nice to do the testing in real-life, so feel free to play with it as much as possible.

c101aviojet, you can already set pad and trace size, you can also place components outside grid (see few posts back), you can insert external images, select more than one component...just try :)

As for component size/rating, it's nice but not so practical. Different types of resistors will have different sizes: carbon/metal/carbon comp. The best way is to manually specify diameter and length. That way, you're sure it's exactly the same size as component that's supposed to be used.

As for speed, did you try to save layout, restart app and load it again? Some folks say it helps. I hope that's the case, it probably means I have some memory issues.

cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: c101aviojet on January 03, 2008, 02:08:17 PM
I'm sorry I'm telling you what half the forum memebers must have already said. Don't get me wrong, but reading 64+ pages seemed just to much.
Also, excuse me for asking for things that are already in...  :icon_redface:
As for the components, just don't worry, when you find a suitable engine then add what you think of. Regarding sizing, I thought it would be useful in those cases that you are not familiar with that component and have no clue of shape/size, etc. The ratio benefits/work looks quite low, though. Maybe if the components library could be easily edited, then you could upload it and share it with others, and add weird components too.
And yes, I've tried restarting the program, but doesn't help much in my case.
Keep up the good work! ;)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 03, 2008, 02:17:29 PM
It slows down on me too. I just save and restart and it works fine again.

"6- Be able to change the grid size. Sometimes, I feel the need to place a component "halfway" between two more as you see in many PCBs. If the grid spacing could be made smaller, then that would be possible."

I asked the same thing. You can hold control and place a component anywhere you want without snapping to grid.

It would be nice if the rulers were more precise (more marks).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 02:25:29 PM
And yes, I've tried restarting the program, but doesn't help much in my case.

do you have stripboard or perfboard on your layout? those components are not optimized well and require too much time to draw. Try without them until I come up with better idea how to implement those.
I hope I'll find where memory leak is, that's most likely what's going on with bside2234 and other guys. I'm used to other programming languages where you have to free memory manually so maybe I'm missing something with Java garbage collector. I don't like GC so far :)

I'll try to make more ticks on rulers.

cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 03:57:41 PM
Hi all,
new version is up!, here's link http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_beta.zip
Brief list of changes:
-added "sticky points" option, when you join two control points they will move together. When this option is on, holding shift will temporarily turn it off in case you need it off just for a second and the other way round  (with option off and shift pressed points will be sticky).
-added option to check for application update from the web. It's sophisticated so it only lists changes made between version you have installed and latest version.
-added few new components
-fixed bunch of issues and maybe introduced a few new :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 04:01:51 PM
I almost forgot, you can drag selected component from library to the layout and it will be created at that place.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ezanker on January 03, 2008, 05:08:53 PM
It's looking better and better!!!  :)

For me the library keeps disappearing from sight.  I then move the mouse over it and the scrollbar reappears, then if I randomly click where the components should be they start reappearing too.  Also I can press F5 twice to toggle off and then on the library to bring it back to sight.  It seems to disappear after placing components, but sometimes just after some time of inactivity.  Do you have some functions running on a timer?

Again, I have Windows XP Service Pack 2 on a laptop with 2GB ram and a decent video card. (I'm the one who was seeing the components flicker in a early alpha until I updated my java).

I guess I am the only one experiencing this?
Erik

P.S. I know what you mean about the Garbage Collector.  I'm program in C#.Net and we're always wondering exactly what the GC does and when.  Memory leaks are reduced, but sometimes a program holds on to memory for a long time...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 05:19:39 PM
yeah, I didn't really start working on memory leaks yet, I just cleaned up some stuff that was obviously making it consume more memory and work slower.
cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hgamal on January 03, 2008, 06:17:40 PM
Hi all,
new version is up!, here's link http://www.storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_beta.zip

I could not open this file created on the old beta!

http://gamal.com.br/marshallizer.diy (http://gamal.com.br/marshallizer.diy)

I've got "java.lang.NullPointerException".
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 06:38:58 PM
see bolded sentance about 8 posts ago :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: hgamal on January 03, 2008, 06:45:35 PM
see bolded sentance about 8 posts ago :)

ok! :)   (that hurts!)

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 03, 2008, 07:11:55 PM
yeah, I should put info message inside program or something. I said it here for a few times, though... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 03, 2008, 07:43:49 PM
It is progressing along very nice. Good Job!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 03, 2008, 10:23:12 PM
copy/paste seems to be working too.  I noticed that the highlight doesn't seem to be coming up when you select/click on a component.

edit:

I see, it turns on once a change happens i.e. move.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: arma61 on January 04, 2008, 02:51:22 AM
Hi

-added "sticky points" option, when you join two control points they will move together. When this option is on, holding shift will temporarily turn it off in case you need it off just for a second and the other way round  (with option off and shift pressed points will be sticky).

It seems CTRL key is doing the same task, so when you move a component "free" (holding the CTRL key) it will also "disconnect" from the other comp/traces.

Armando
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 08:03:27 AM
yeah, that's said here few times before...I'll have to start thinking about quick user guide or something...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: mdh on January 04, 2008, 11:32:58 AM
Has anyone managed to get DIYLC 2 running in Debian/Ubuntu? hgamal, I've seen that you've managed to get it running under Fedora.

I posted on p. 56 of this thread that I had the alpha running under Ubuntu Dapper with the Sun Java packages, and now I have the beta running under Gutsy Gibbon (7.10), and this time I didn't have to do anything special.  I guess Sun Java installs by default now.  I can't check the Dapper machine because it's on hiatus with hardware problems.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 11:49:19 AM
this is like japanese to me 

ubuntu dapper
gutsy gibbon
hiatus

:icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 12:27:57 PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Flibber Flabber
Wakka Wakka

Ever hear of a little program called Windows?  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rikkards on January 04, 2008, 01:33:53 PM
Yeah but some of us want something more elegant than what comes out of Redmond, believe in the philosophy of openess (isn't what this forum is about?) or don't want to spend the money to buy something from a company named after a fruit.
What's your excuse?  ;)

Mind you MS's products pay the bills for me so I can buy stuff and I wouldn't want it any other way

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Flibber Flabber
Wakka Wakka

Ever hear of a little program called Windows?  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 01:58:51 PM
I was only kidding! I just have never heard of any of that stuff plus it has funny names.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 02:00:56 PM
it's not that I like MS or their stuff, it's just very funny how those open source stuff gets named. Who comes up with that stuff.
Like java concepts: ant, ear, bean...silly, isn't it :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 02:03:27 PM
Back on topic!  ;)

When I open the new beta I get an error message:
The following component files could not be processed:
C://blah,blah,blah\library\copper_trace.xml
These files will be ignored
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 02:04:51 PM
it's not that I like MS or their stuff, it's just very funny how those open source stuff gets named. Who comes up with that stuff.
Like java concepts: ant, ear, bean...silly, isn't it :)

It's not that I like it either. It just came on my computer and I don't care enough to change it to something else. It works. That's all that matters to me.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 02:09:21 PM
Back on topic!  ;)

When I open the new beta I get an error message:
The following component files could not be processed:
C://blah,blah,blah\library\copper_trace.xml
These files will be ignored

did you mess with that file? try to download and unpack it again, maybe it got damaged somehow.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 02:14:16 PM
That worked. I didn't delete the older versions files and just chose to overwrite the files. I deleted the folder this time and then extracted it and that worked. Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rikkards on January 04, 2008, 06:01:10 PM
From the FAQ at Ubuntu:
http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/faq#head-554a5bc453f68051a6b83c83fbfe61b322c6b3fd
We name all of our development releases with catchy animal names. This started with the early days of Ubuntu, before it was called Ubuntu, when Robert Collins, upon hearing of the six month release schedule, said "That is going to be pretty warty. Lets call it Warty Warthog". The naming convention stuck.


BTW the steps as brought up by mdh on page 56 still work with the latest version of Ubuntu (7.10 aka Gutsy Gibbon).

it's not that I like MS or their stuff, it's just very funny how those open source stuff gets named. Who comes up with that stuff.
Like java concepts: ant, ear, bean...silly, isn't it :)

Sorry, knee jerk reaction.  ::) Ubuntu is one of the most user friendly versions of Linux around. The nice thing is you can download a LiveCD and boot off of it and see how it works without having it affect your existing installation of Windows. Runs completely off of the cd. It is different though than windows in some of the ways it works and look and feel. A lot of the history of Linux comes from the Unix world in how it works but Ubuntu does a great job in making it just work. Apple proved it could be done with OS X.

 I had Gentoo for a while which was bleeding edge but it got to the point that I just wanted something that was less "bleeding". If Windows works for you (as it does for my wife), then great!

I was only kidding! I just have never heard of any of that stuff plus it has funny names.


Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: andrew_k on January 04, 2008, 08:33:23 PM
Bug Report

Description: Paste doesn't work, neither from Edit menu nor Ctrl+V (Or perhaps Copy is the culprit? I haven't checked clipboard contents)
System: OS X 10.4.11
DIYL Version: 2 beta

It's kinda hard to know what bugs have been reported amongst a 65 page thread that spans multiple versions of the software. I think you need a bug tracker that's suitable for non-IT people. I've had a lot of success with Flyspray (http://flyspray.org/about) in the past, it might be worth checking out.



Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 09:11:04 PM
Good idea, I'll install fishspray and integrate it into program so users can report bugs and request new features.

As for paste, keyboard shortcuts work only when main window is selected, so make sure that library is not focused...I'm trying to fix it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 04, 2008, 09:32:51 PM
I have installed fishspray, seems ok. We use JIRA at work and it's more powerful, but it's not free. For DIYLC fishspray will be ok.

Here's link, so feel free to post bugs or feature requests, no registration is needed.

http://www.storm-software.co.yu/flyspray/

cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 04, 2008, 10:43:35 PM
Paste is working for me from the menu.  I'm on 10.4.11

Bancika, can you add flip/mirror to text options?  Would be useful for text on the board bottom.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 04, 2008, 10:45:07 PM
Just noticed flypper post.  I will check it out and add to there.  Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bside2234 on January 04, 2008, 11:17:49 PM
Then what are we going to talk about here? :icon_lol:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 05, 2008, 12:35:05 AM
Here you're gonna talk about how good it is, and in flyspray you say the bad part :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BINGEWOOD on January 05, 2008, 01:12:57 AM
Haven't had any of the lock ups or slow downs in the new ver.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 05, 2008, 09:51:51 AM
that's good new man :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: andrew_k on January 05, 2008, 05:52:52 PM
Here's link, so feel free to post bugs or feature requests, no registration is needed.
http://www.storm-software.co.yu/flyspray/

 :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on January 07, 2008, 09:26:16 AM
one still have to put each solder pad one by one or is auto now?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 07, 2008, 10:02:30 AM
yep, still didn't figure the best way for auto-creation yet. Please file a ticket for that in flyspray so I have it in mind...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on January 07, 2008, 03:03:27 PM
not quite auto creation, but how about you have a button for PCB mode which, when activated, allows you to place pcb pads with a right click - and left click will serve as normal for placing other components. This would make the process 75% less tedious.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 07, 2008, 04:34:40 PM
hmm...that's not a bad idea. But in order to stay "clean" and not make static link to "solder pad" component I could make that configurable. That way you can set a "quick component" or something like that which is created on right click when app is in quick component mode (otherwise, we show popup menu). I'll think about it, thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: scaesic on January 08, 2008, 09:28:00 AM
Could be a useful feature, so you could place all your resistors in one go, and then all your caps, and then all your solder pads.... :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on January 10, 2008, 01:25:29 PM
any news on the conversion program for old layouts to the new program?

us mac users would be very thankfull!

 ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 10, 2008, 01:26:36 PM
any news on the conversion program for old layouts to the new program?

us mac users would be very thankfull!

 ;D

not yet, making this version work as it's supposed to is my main priority...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on January 10, 2008, 01:29:42 PM
i thought so. i'm very happy with it already!
but i'm not a genius layouter...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 10, 2008, 01:31:15 PM
I'm happy with it too, but there are still some issues that are very annoying, check out the flyspray page...
I didn't have time for the last 5 days to work on it at all...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: nokaster on January 10, 2008, 01:34:50 PM
every single thing you do is exceptionally appreciated by myself and many others i think!

it's a great program!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 10, 2008, 02:58:30 PM
thanks man  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: andrew_k on January 10, 2008, 05:54:06 PM
any news on the conversion program for old layouts to the new program?
not yet, making this version work as it's supposed to is my main priority...

Considering both formats are XML, do you think XSL would be up to the task of migrating to the new format? If so, I may be able to help you out.

I'll try to take a look at it over the weekend.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 11, 2008, 08:21:23 AM
I worked with XSL very little so I'm not sure what it can do and what not, but the problem is not only different structure of file, but also more core changes...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: dschwartz on January 23, 2008, 12:16:43 PM
any news about a new release?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 23, 2008, 01:20:28 PM
you can use flyspray page to see the progress. I haven't worked on it much lately, my girlfriend came to the US so I don't have any time...

cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on January 28, 2008, 11:58:01 AM
I worked with XSL very little so I'm not sure what it can do and what not, but the problem is not only different structure of file, but also more core changes...

I'm sure XSL is up to it, but take my advice.. creating a simple SAX parser is way more flexible. I've extensively worked with XSL and came to the conclusion it overcomplicated and untransparent and a major pain in the @ss to come back at a few months later and trying to make anything out of it. in SAX you know where your elements start and where they end
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: spud on February 13, 2008, 06:50:49 PM
Hey does anyone know where I can get the latest release of the new DIYlayout tool?   Is it still a BETA version?  Didn't see many posts on this thread recently, did it move somewhere else? 

Thanks for any help/links,

spud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: 12milluz on February 13, 2008, 10:16:53 PM
Click the picture in bancika's signiture;) You can download it there!


EDIT: nevermind, sorry.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 14, 2008, 07:04:45 AM
this is the latest version http://storm-software.co.yu/diylc/diylc_beta.zip
I haven't had time to work on it last month, hopefully I'll start again soon
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: spud on February 14, 2008, 12:03:33 PM
Thanks for the link -

I like the pics on your site - looks like you've had some time to enjoy the sites and see some shows.  I esp dig the pics with Vai and Sheehan!  The DP show must have been great too as well as Slash.

Thanks again and take care -

spud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ambulancevoice on February 24, 2008, 06:30:05 AM
i had a play with the beta version on my mac, appears to work fine! i just havnt tested out everything yet
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ANDYEFFECT on March 05, 2008, 03:27:10 PM
Dr Boogey PCBs ..... have someone layout of this program .:: :icon_question:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: GREEN FUZ on March 05, 2008, 04:16:46 PM
Is this what you`re looking for? ???



[url=http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPartsLayout.gif][http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPCB.bmp/url]

[url]http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPartsLayout.gif]http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPartsLayout.gif][http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPCB.bmp/url]

[url]http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPartsLayout.gif (http://[http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPCB.bmp/url)


Or?

http://gaussmarkov.net/layouts/drboo/drboo-project.pdf (http://gaussmarkov.net/layouts/drboo/drboo-project.pdf)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: culturejam on May 11, 2008, 12:18:41 PM
Any word on the progress of the new beta?  :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: andrew_k on May 11, 2008, 11:19:38 PM
Any word on the progress of the new beta?  :)

+1.

It's great to have the Java version for Mac and Linux, but there are some big memory leaks which means I have to restart it every 10 or 15 minutes when working on larger layouts.  :icon_cry:
It very quickly climbs past 120MB of physical RAM on my mac.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ConanB on May 12, 2008, 01:05:28 AM
If I had spare time I'd offer to help with any development. My Java is a little rusty but easy to pick back up.
If you do need any help with any odd jobs let me know  :)
Great tool, and the beta version is perfect with it's extendable component library!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 12, 2008, 12:51:35 PM
Hi guys,
Unfortunately, I don't have any time now because of the work and my studies, it's been in the standstill for almost 4 months now.
I was planning to take open source path and allow other developers to join and work on it, but I don't have time even to do the research on open source (I don't know how it works yet). I hope I'll be able to at least create open source project on sourceforge or something like that because I won't be able to work on it for at least 2-3 months.
Cheers and thanks for kind words
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ConanB on May 12, 2008, 07:24:39 PM
Let us know if you get it all up on sourceforge.
You've got a great project here and it would be a shame for it to get left behind. So many people in the DIY community use it and love it! So again, great work!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 03:59:13 AM
Making it open source is a great idea! people can discuss here what features they are working on.(I allready did some work on importing old diy files)  It will really speed up developement. I have no idea on how to set up an open source project and keep control of it, but since I work with opensource on a daily basis and since we have just open sourced a major software platform at my company ( navajo.nl ) I'll be happy to investigate.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 07:14:58 AM
thanks for plugging in ~arph. Things I'm most concerned about are
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: andrew_k on May 14, 2008, 07:34:30 AM
thanks for plugging in ~arph. Things I'm most concerned about are...

I'd add "preventing 'Company X' from slapping their logo on it and selling it as their own".
Make sure you put the right license on it; especially if it is using any OSS frameworks under the hood and needs to be compatible with their licenses.
I also write and use open source software in my day job (though not Java) and am happy to help in any way I can.
 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 07:39:23 AM
I'd add "preventing 'Company X' from slapping their logo on it and selling it as their own".

yeah, that's good point. They wouldn't sell too much if they sell the same thing we offer for free, but it could be used as a starting point.
Also, I have no clue about licenses and advantages/disadvantages of common licenses (like GNU). any help is appreciated.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 07:51:16 AM
Well I've just checked GNU GPL  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

-This will not prevent you from other people selling it, but they can not rebrand it and can not add features without making the source openly available. In other words, if someone sells it they have to share the source so you can offer their version for free again.
-With the license a copyright notice must be included at all time, so everyone get their credits.

To organize it all I recommend using version control (CVS) make branches for releases. So we can release beta versions, release candidates and final releases and never loose any of the code of all versions. It will also ensure that if two persons are working on the same thing they are forced to merge their work.

Regards,

Arnoud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rikkards on May 14, 2008, 07:59:42 AM
Another source to look at is BSD Licensing. I think it is similar to GPL but if I recall correctly, you can give the source out but you can stipulate whether or not someone can sell it.

Well I've just checked GNU GPL  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

-This will not prevent you from other people selling it, but they can not rebrand it and can not add features without making the source openly available. In other words, if someone sells it they have to share the source so you can offer their version for free again.
-With the license a copyright notice must be included at all time, so everyone get their credits.

To organize it all I recommend using version control (CVS) make branches for releases. So we can release beta versions, release candidates and final releases and never loose any of the code of all versions. It will also ensure that if two persons are working on the same thing they are forced to merge their work.

Regards,

Arnoud

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 08:05:17 AM
To organize it all I recommend using version control (CVS) make branches for releases. So we can release beta versions, release candidates and final releases and never loose any of the code of all versions. It will also ensure that if two persons are working on the same thing they are forced to merge their work.

I work with CVS every day at my job so no problem there, I know about it :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 08:08:08 AM
Yes that one is interesting too..I'll check that one now

Also.. there is the GNU LGPG which is the LESSER version of the GPL, which you should use in this case instead of the normal GPL.
The difference is that with the LGPL version you restrict your libraries (source) only to be packaged with your software. Where the GPL allows others to use your source for their software too.

PS.  Doesn't sourceforge offer CVS?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 08:13:30 AM
I'm pretty sure it does offer cvs
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 08:26:02 AM
I've just registered a dummy project there to see what it offers. See if the accept my submission  ???

as for BSD.. this is the whole BSD license (template):

Copyright (c) <YEAR>, <OWNER>
All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:

    * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
    * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
    * Neither the name of the <ORGANIZATION> nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 08:29:46 AM
I have setup a project on sourceforge under both GPL and BSD licences, let's wait till they approve it...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 08:37:05 AM
Cool. Let's get this thing rolling.

In the BSD case all you have to do I think is include the license with the code.
For LGPL you have to include the license in every source file (which I actually like better)

As for now you could start with gathering information on what you wish to see done. ( I believe you have an bug/feature request page, let me check that) and let other people start at that.

Regards,

Arnoud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 14, 2008, 08:49:32 AM
yeah, there's request page here http://storm-software.co.yu/flyspray/
I already did many request but didn't make a release yet. However, they are marked in the list...
Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on May 14, 2008, 08:56:40 AM
Yes I just saw it. Looks good.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: jlullo on May 14, 2008, 11:25:52 PM
ok... i'm trying to install the Java version, and i'm getting this error message on my console when trying to install the DIYLC.jar file-

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: diylc/MainFrame (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)

   at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass0(Native Method)

   at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:539)

   at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:123)

   at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:251)

   at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:55)

   at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:194)

   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)

   at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:187)

   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:289)

   at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:274)

   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:235)

   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(ClassLoader.java:302)


would this be because i'm running OSX vers 10.3.9, and not the newest version?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on May 15, 2008, 04:23:02 AM
you need java 1.5 or better to run it, that might be a problem. Just update java runtime environment
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on May 15, 2008, 06:22:22 AM
Jup that's your problem
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: jlullo on May 15, 2008, 10:50:32 AM
damn... well it's looking like i can only get java 1.5 with the newest operating system, so i guess i'll be updating this week!


thanks guys
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on May 23, 2008, 10:32:49 AM
anyone can help me with importing a project into sourceforge CVS? I work with CVS  every day but don't have a clue how to configure it :)
by the way, project is located here https://sourceforge.net/projects/diylc
thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on June 05, 2008, 07:43:44 AM
Did you receive my email on how to do this?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on June 05, 2008, 08:56:33 AM
no mail, just PM-s.
I tried to do it, but couldn't. That sourceforge site is without a competition the most complicated "thing" I've ever came across. If someone wants to try to upload cvs project please let me know. I'm a moron.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on June 06, 2008, 03:39:42 AM
Ah, that's too bad, because I sent you an example on how to do this in eclipse,so netbeans should be possible too..( It was to the storm software emailaddress on your site..) But thats on my  computer at work. I will figure it out and give you the example later this day. Otherwise I'll be happy to try it for you, but you have to add me to your project first. 
First: did you manage to upload the SSH key? that's important. You can do that on your account details page almost at the bottom. (just search for SSH)

Regards,

Arnoud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on June 06, 2008, 11:40:04 AM
At least I figured out the SSH key upload :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Renegadrian on June 08, 2008, 07:11:44 PM
Will the new version work on Linux? I'm on Kubuntu...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: andrew_k on June 08, 2008, 08:52:36 PM
Yes Adriano, it will work on Linux.
You need to make sure you have the Java Runtime Environment installed first --
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Renegadrian on June 09, 2008, 01:20:57 AM
Great! Thanks my friend...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on June 09, 2008, 03:42:38 AM
Bane,

I finally managed to send you that attachment..  8)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on June 09, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
Cool, I'll take a look asap. Thank you very much for your help!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Renegadrian on June 09, 2008, 01:37:51 PM
Yes Adriano, it will work on Linux.
You need to make sure you have the Java Runtime Environment installed first --
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin sun-java6-fonts

Done - and extracted the files in a folder - what do I have to type to run it?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: andrew_k on June 09, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
run the diylc_beta.jar file. A double click from Konqueror should do it. Failing that, I think something like 'java diylc_beta.jar' would be a suitable command...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on June 10, 2008, 04:08:31 AM
java -jar diylc_beta.jar

is the actual command
Title: LINUX
Post by: Renegadrian on June 11, 2008, 07:14:59 PM
GOT THIS ERROR...

sudo java -jar DIYLC.jar
Exception in thread "main" java.awt.AWTError: Cannot load AWT toolkit: gnu.java.awt.peer.gtk.GtkToolkit
   at java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeLater(libgcj.so.70)
   at diylc.MainFrame.main(MainFrame.java:894)
Caused by: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: libgtkpeer: libgtkpeer.so: impossibile aprire il file oggetto condiviso: Nessun file o directory
   at java.lang.Runtime._load(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(libgcj.so.70)
   at gnu.java.awt.peer.gtk.GtkToolkit.<clinit>(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.lang.Class.initializeClass(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.lang.Class.forName(libgcj.so.70)
   at java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(libgcj.so.70)
   ...2 more
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on June 12, 2008, 04:41:43 AM
do you have java 1.5 installed?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: BaLaClavaAa on June 18, 2008, 03:32:55 PM
So I just got the error message

"Not enough Storage to Issue This command". How do I get out of this? I just spent 2 hours doing up this layout and really don't want to do it again. I can't get to anything else in the program, and I tried holding down enter out of it, but I couldn't beat it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on June 19, 2008, 03:54:22 AM
Is your HD full?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Roobin on June 19, 2008, 10:03:27 AM
Did you save it? What I find it does sometimes is slow down after a while. So save! Then close the program. Then re open it and ope your file, and it should be running much faster (unless you've got like a gazzilion components on there).
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on June 20, 2008, 07:49:53 AM
Yes I have found that too, after doing a reasonably large layout the app slows down and can't handle your commands properly anymore. If you delete a component it deletes an arbitrary component. After that it will keep throwing errors at you and you can't save anymore. So saving often and restarting the app might help (even though if your layout is that big, restarting won't help either) . That's why we need the source so we can develop the next version quickly!  ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: guilds100 on July 07, 2008, 11:34:13 AM
Has anyone run into issues with the check continuity feature of DIY creator? It seems I was getting an error when I check for continuity. I reinstalled the program and tried a new layout with 1 resistor and it worked. Then I tryed to add a couple components and it started saying there were items in the chain that arent even there, R10, J1, C3 with only 2 resistors on the layout. It still errors on layouts i made before the reinstallation. Any advice?

Im running windows XP
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: frank_p on July 19, 2008, 10:31:07 PM

I don't know why I did not try this software before.
WOW ! 
EXTRAORDINARY WORK !
:icon_eek:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: lontano on July 24, 2008, 07:41:09 AM
That's an amazing piece of software! well done!  ;D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Renegadrian on July 25, 2008, 09:42:41 AM
do you have java 1.5 installed?

I had, but I had to configure it as default
sudo update-alternatives --config java

Now it runs. Maybe it's only a first impression, but for now let me tell you I prefer the older version...Dont like that one, I know it's a beta but it looks "simpler" and worse than the other version I use on Win2k.
Or maybe it's just how it looks on Linux...
I used the beta you posted 3-4 pages before.

I look forward to use a definitive version.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on July 28, 2008, 07:55:28 AM
Hi guys!
I'm back from the vacation (Greece) and have some news for ya. I had time to think about this app and I will probably have to write it down from scratch again. This was my first java app ever, in the meantime I learned a lot about java so I'm sure I'll write it better this time. Also, I'll have to change component engine once more. Unfortunately, this means you won't be able to open files made with this beta, but there are many advantages of this approach:

Thanks for understanding, I hope you won't hate me (or the app) for constant changing, but it's all for good cause :)

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on July 28, 2008, 08:51:16 AM
Sounds good!

The current beta version for me was indeed just a beta, for getting a feel of the new thing, but not usable for actual layout creating.
I'd just like to let you know that I'm still here to support you and/or speed up developement if needed. So feel free to ask me questions or bug me with bugs I'll  be happy to help out. I have about 10 years of java ( plus swing ) experience so there is not much I can't solve.

Regards,

Arnoud

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on July 28, 2008, 12:05:13 PM
Cool, thanks ;)

I'll explain what I'm trying to do here. Instead of interpreting XML files for components, which is slow and not very flexible (limited only to XML tags I defined), I plan to make every component inherit a base abstract component class. Components would be compiled in the runtime which eliminates need for parsing math expressions like it does now. It will also allow drawing anything that java can draw, not only stuff I made. Unfortunately, this will require JRE 1.6 to work, but I don't think that should be a problem. I'm in a rush these days (coming to USA again this weekend) but I plan to start working on it in a week or so. I'll contact you to discuss some ideas and maybe you can give me your feedback.

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: SirElwood on July 28, 2008, 02:24:29 PM
Nice to hear there is a progress! :)

To me, this beta has been really good tool. Well, it's slow, takes all available memory and so on, but I'm not in a hurry. And this program works in mac for free (there are alot less free programs for mac than windows)!

bancika, keep up the good work!

And if this will be an open source, maybe I can translate it to finnish? Will it be possible? Would be kinda cool.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on July 28, 2008, 02:29:00 PM
I never use localized software so I never think in that direction. Is there any java library that makes localization easier?
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 28, 2008, 03:44:49 PM
java.util.ResourceBundle
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 28, 2008, 03:46:32 PM
I'll set that up by the time..

the classes idea is a good one.. just drop in a jar library and the app will find the classes (as long as they are in a specified package)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator
Post by: Renegadrian on July 28, 2008, 06:25:46 PM
I'd like to see a v.2 closer to the v.1 appearance...I like it better...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator
Post by: Barcode80 on July 28, 2008, 09:33:46 PM
I'd like to see a v.2 closer to the v.1 appearance...I like it better...
i am actually cool with the appearance, but it doesn't seem to have the usability the old one does. however, i think that is just remedied by some development time. looking forward to the rewrite bancika!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 29, 2008, 09:06:26 AM
the classes idea is a good one.. just drop in a jar library and the app will find the classes (as long as they are in a specified package)

thanks!
Actually, I plan to leave component files as uncompiled .java files and compile them at startup for usage. That will allow user modifications if needed and can serve as a reference for developers. If compilation takes too long (for more than 50 files) I'll switch to .class files instead.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 30, 2008, 03:39:20 AM
I feel packaged classes are the way to go. If you have the source publicly available a user that would like to modify it, can grab the source and build/modify on that. (extend existing components or build new ones from interfaces).  If a user knows Java it also knows how to compile it and make a jar. This will remove the need for run time compiling and makes it easier to do updates or extension libraries as they are just one file. (oh and checkout the substance look and feel)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on July 30, 2008, 03:52:48 PM
Good point, I could make it scan "components" folder for jars and load them all at startup. That way users can add their component packs...What do you think?
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: ~arph on July 30, 2008, 04:14:34 PM
my thoughts exactly  :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on July 31, 2008, 09:33:46 AM
I am interested in what your aims are for this. Are you planning on both schematic drawing and layout drawing?
In other words are we aiming at a (much)simpler type of eagle?

It might be a good idea to ponder over some data structures before you get on your way (and back from the states)
I came up with this basic generic structure for components:

1) To keep complexity low for now I assume there is a default grid (as in perf, or vero, no special lead spacings etc.)

base:   Component
             attr: name, value, package

base:   Package
             attr: name, dimension (nodes bounding box) , nodes (points in bounding box grid), schema_representation (paint), fysical_representation (paint)
                  optionally: gridsize (for future support of different lead spacing)

base:   Node (connection terminal.. eg. a resistor has two and a transister/fet three)
             attr: name, value, nodes ( a list of nodes it is connected to )

In this case you can use the same component classes for the schema and the layout, as well as keeping track wich nodes are connected to which and have separate drawing classes (schema_representation and fysical_repersentation,  ...) for the packages.

This also makes it possible to change a components package (capacitors and resistors tend to vary in size and transistor pinouts differ too).

I'll keep you updated when more ideas pop in my head. I'll start using email now.

Yes, we are reinventing the wheel, but not a pirelli with 22" spinners, preferrable more like a wooden circle with a hole in it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: nordine on August 01, 2008, 06:21:30 PM
downloaded the java version for Vista, but don't know what to do then

i have the jar file, then what?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bside2234 on August 01, 2008, 06:48:44 PM
You extract the zip file to where you want the program. Double click the jar file and the program opens.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 04, 2008, 02:12:34 PM
I like the idea of having different packages for the same component, good idea. It makes it a bit more complicated, but I think it's feasable. Will think more... :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ConanB on August 04, 2008, 08:23:20 PM
Very much looking forward to this open java style. I guess I'll have to refresh my java skills, haven't touched the stuff since my mobile phone developing days.

While your on the topic of making the components seperate, thought much about a plugin system? Not exactly sure how that would work with java, but say an extra folder with user made "exporters", or something to that effect. Could be neat to allow people to write plugins that can save out a schematic, or something. I could just be talking crazy talk; need my morning coffee still while I'm stairing at our developer tools at work which are all plugin driven.

Conan.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 04, 2008, 10:56:10 PM
Very much looking forward to this open java style. I guess I'll have to refresh my java skills, haven't touched the stuff since my mobile phone developing days.

While your on the topic of making the components seperate, thought much about a plugin system? Not exactly sure how that would work with java, but say an extra folder with user made "exporters", or something to that effect. Could be neat to allow people to write plugins that can save out a schematic, or something. I could just be talking crazy talk; need my morning coffee still while I'm stairing at our developer tools at work which are all plugin driven.

Conan.

yeah, I'll probably make plugins for exporting that would work similar to component extensions (components are also treated like plugins).

Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on August 05, 2008, 04:05:13 AM
To start of, are there any particular areas you'd like me to think about or start on? my specialities are swing/user interfaces,  custom graphics (and animation), but ?I can do other stuff just as wel. Might be a good idea to use for instance substance as a look and feel.

Regards,

Arnoud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 05, 2008, 06:26:43 AM
Actually I need some help on how to detect if user has clicked on a component (and of course find out which component is that).
The way I planned to make drawing work is to pass Graphics from main drawing pane to each component which would paint itself.
In the old version, when you add a rectangle, it would create a  rectangle with same size and position in the memory and then use that to determine if user has clicked on the component. I don't think this can work now...
Any ideas are highly appreciated.
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ConanB on August 05, 2008, 06:37:08 AM
Can't that still work?
I guess i'm just used to PC game overlays where the GUI is still arranged in a tree-view in memory so you have the root and everything attached to it in front-to-back order that you can just poll when the mouse clicks.
The individual GUI elements each implement the "OnMouseDown" that is passed the mouse coordinates and just does it's own check if the mouse is over it.

But I may be misunderstanding your questions?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 05, 2008, 06:44:35 AM
well, I'm trying to move that logic out of component code and if I only give component a canvas (graphics) to draw onto I don't know how can I capture what's drawn. One idea is to implement my own graphics and then draw through it to the canvas while remembering what's drawn, but that sucks cause I'd have to implement every method from graphics2D.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ConanB on August 05, 2008, 06:47:44 AM
My 2 cents is leave it with the component units.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on August 05, 2008, 07:42:39 AM
Yes I'd leave it in the component.  I see it (now) like this:

There is a base component that has a paint method, in that paint method you paint your package. (let's leave the schematic version out of scope for a second)
also, you catch your mouseclicks coming from your package there. The actual bounds of that base component are determined by the package, so that is also where you catch the clicks. The component itself is not a visible element. The package is. (package by the way will not be a valid Java name  ;) )

Every other component will extend from that. so then every other component only has to set it's own package and the package does the drawing.. mouse clicks are handled by the parent. (you probably also want to add a mouselistener to the actual solder nodes)

The nice thing about this is that if a user clicks on a component the component immediatly knows this . And you don't have to worry about scanning all components on a grid and translating coordinates etc.

I'll try and code a quick example for this when I'm in the train back home.

Regards,

Arnoud
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on August 05, 2008, 07:44:04 AM
Oh, and the logic doesn't have to be in the component code... as long as the component catches the event and delegates it somewhere else.. (eg. tells the main frame or grid that it was clicked )
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 05, 2008, 08:16:19 AM
I don't fully understand. Do you suggest that component should be an actual swing component? That could be a problem if user clicks on a transparent part of the component (image), that would also trigger mouse event.
Btw, old version draws everything on a JPanel which determines where's clicked.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on August 05, 2008, 09:18:47 AM
Yes, I sent you an example of that. I'll find a way around the clicking on non visual parts (by validating the event with the Component again), as for now you are right about that (eg, in my example the electrolytes are also rectangles...)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 12, 2008, 10:12:35 AM
I was thinking something: how limiting would it be if you could only drag component by dragging control nodes? Of course, there would be an option to drag all nodes at once (holding ctrl or something)...
Tnx
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 13, 2008, 03:58:02 PM
I was thinking something: how limiting would it be if you could only drag component by dragging control nodes? Of course, there would be an option to drag all nodes at once (holding ctrl or something)...
Tnx


forget about this, I think I figured out a good (and hopefully fast) way to do it properly...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 14, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
anyone interested in doing a design for DIYLC dedicated sourceforge site?
I'm not too good at design. Here's the address http://diylc.sourceforge.net/

Thanks,
Bancika
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: loss1234 on August 17, 2008, 09:07:35 PM
Quick question on the OLD DIY LAYOUT CREATOR (not java)

When I say render to press n peel, i notice it does not make a reverse image. SO my question is this. DO I NEED TO REVERSE IT OR DOES THAT HAPPEN THROUGH THE PROCESS OF IRONING ON TO THE COPPER (i cant remember..its been a while)

I assume i am looking at the project TOP DOWN when in the layout creator itself? (pin 1 on an opamp is actually Pin1 correct?

thanks. anything else i should know for making PNPs?

thanks so much
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 18, 2008, 08:14:31 AM
You shouldn't reverse them, just print as is.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: loss1234 on August 19, 2008, 10:11:13 AM
OK

I have one more question . one more big problem. I have tried for many hours to find an answer to this one but I am starting to think its not possible.

HOW CAN YOU FIGURE OUT WHICH TRACE IS WHICH? in other words, on the right hand side of the window,  (the explorer) if you choose PADS and selected one pad at a time, the pad in question will light up in red. HOWEVER with TRACES there seems to BE NO WAY TO HIGHLIGHT OR FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE IS WHICH, other than deleting them one at a time  (unless you give a unique name to every single trace. which i may have to start doing. are there any plans to add a feature where the trace turns red like the way it does with PADS?

this is really the biggest problem i am running into with this program.

thanks so much for this wonderful program.

o
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on August 19, 2008, 10:25:54 AM
I do not plan to further develop the old version. However, Java version will definitely have that feature...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: rnfr on August 22, 2008, 05:24:36 AM
my Java version has stopped allowing me to save as and export png files.  any way to fix this?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on August 25, 2008, 11:13:12 PM
it can't just stop, did you try restarting? reinstalling?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rnfr on August 28, 2008, 12:32:32 AM
restarted.  haven't had a chance to reinstall yet.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: sweetwilly on September 10, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Just gotta say - great software.  I've always had real trouble with schematics, but was playing around with the layout creator today and something just clicked as I "built" the circuit.

Genius work!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: frequencycentral on September 13, 2008, 03:31:23 PM
Branislav,

This is a great program!

However - I only use 'Tripad', it's like a cross between stripboard and perf. Three holes per pad - hence the name. I don't know if anyone else uses it, but I find it far more compact than stripboard, more conveniet than perf.

Would it be possible to add 'Tripad' as a choice in board properties?

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/jp52g.jpg)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?C=SO&U=strat310&T=Chester&ModuleNo=1922&ma=Chester+-+Tripad+Board
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: CodeMonk on September 14, 2008, 03:32:14 AM
Maybe this was already brought up. I'm on dialup and searching through 71 pages of posts would take me a month.
I have no laser printer so printing a layout at home is not really an option at this time.
I tried rendering an image and its huge. Way to big.
I also tried rendering a PnP, its also oversized when I try to open it in MSPaint of photshop.
When I go to print preview, the PnP Image is also distorted.

It prints the Pnp image just fine, perfect size and everything.
Without a laser printer at home, my only option at this time is to take the images to kinkos or some place like that and have them print them. But with the images to large or distorted, thats currently something thats not going to work.

Is there something I am missing here?

Thanks

Great software BTW
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on September 16, 2008, 11:48:42 AM
Branislav,

This is a great program!

However - I only use 'Tripad', it's like a cross between stripboard and perf. Three holes per pad - hence the name. I don't know if anyone else uses it, but I find it far more compact than stripboard, more conveniet than perf.

Would it be possible to add 'Tripad' as a choice in board properties?

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/jp52g.jpg)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?C=SO&U=strat310&T=Chester&ModuleNo=1922&ma=Chester+-+Tripad+Board

In the newer version it's possible, not in the really old one (windows only). It would take just to create that board as a component and add to a library.
I don't have time to do it in current beta, and it would be worthless when brand new version 3 comes out (the one that's open source).
If anyone (maybe you?) wants to play with it, start with perfboard XML file in library folder, it should be straightforward to do.
Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on September 16, 2008, 11:50:27 AM
Maybe this was already brought up. I'm on dialup and searching through 71 pages of posts would take me a month.
I have no laser printer so printing a layout at home is not really an option at this time.
I tried rendering an image and its huge. Way to big.
I also tried rendering a PnP, its also oversized when I try to open it in MSPaint of photshop.
When I go to print preview, the PnP Image is also distorted.

It prints the Pnp image just fine, perfect size and everything.
Without a laser printer at home, my only option at this time is to take the images to kinkos or some place like that and have them print them. But with the images to large or distorted, thats currently something thats not going to work.

Is there something I am missing here?

Thanks

Great software BTW

Depends on what software youre using, some of them seem to ignore image resolution and that's why it looks so big. I tried from photoshop and it was fine...weird. Try playing with resolution.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: CodeMonk on September 17, 2008, 12:37:17 AM
Doesn't really matter what software I use, what I worry about there is what software Kinkos or some other place of that type uses.
After I made this post though, I inserted one of the images in MSWord and re-sized it there.
Between 38 and 39 percent of original size makes it damn near perfect. 38.5 percent would have been perfect but it doesn't allow that :(


Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Br4d13y on September 17, 2008, 12:56:05 AM
i tried to download the program, and it installed, but when i opened it, it would just pop up saying no active document ??? it really bugs me as i am new to effects and very sketchy at schematics
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on September 17, 2008, 03:22:24 PM
that's the old version and it does not work with vista (damn microsoft)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Barcode80 on September 18, 2008, 05:43:13 PM
Doesn't really matter what software I use, what I worry about there is what software Kinkos or some other place of that type uses.
After I made this post though, I inserted one of the images in MSWord and re-sized it there.
Between 38 and 39 percent of original size makes it damn near perfect. 38.5 percent would have been perfect but it doesn't allow that :(



open thepnp image in photoshop, go to Image size, turn off resampling, and set it to 200.25 dpi. This will print exactly right.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Br4d13y on September 29, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
do you have a vista version ? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on September 30, 2008, 10:23:25 AM
new one works with vista, go to my site and you'll find it
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: calpolyengineer on September 30, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
do you have a vista version ? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Old one works with vista if you set it to run in compatibility mode.

-Joe
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Mr. G. on October 01, 2008, 07:06:11 AM
I'm trying to run the v2 Beta on Linux (Ubuntu), and have it up and running fine, but there are no components in the library window.  Is there some way I'm supposed to import the components from the library folder, or am I just missing something ????

Other than that, it looks great, and thanks for all the hard work! 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on October 01, 2008, 09:33:15 AM
it probably couldn't find library folder. Make sure it's in the same folder as JAR
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Mr. G. on October 01, 2008, 12:52:27 PM
The DIYLC.jar, Library folder and Lib folder are all in the diylc_beta folder that was unzipped to my desktop.  I'm running the .jar file from the diylc_beta folder. 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Mr. G. on October 01, 2008, 06:28:56 PM
I just tried running it in a virtual machine running XP pro, and it worked fine.  Not sure why the library content isn't showing up when I run it in Linux. 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 02, 2008, 11:06:10 AM
try playing with active folder
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Mr. G. on October 02, 2008, 01:31:36 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you mean   ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 02, 2008, 02:08:51 PM
I wanted to say, try changing current working folder to DIYLC folder prior to running it. I don't know how linux works, but in windows that could be the problem. DIYLC looks into working folder to find library...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rnfr on October 07, 2008, 11:55:12 PM
is there any way to switch the emitter and collectors around on pnp BJT's when using  the schematic symbols?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rnfr on October 10, 2008, 12:00:49 AM
anyone??? ???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on October 10, 2008, 01:42:59 PM
I don't think it's implemented yet...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: asfastasdark on October 15, 2008, 12:09:58 AM
One idea that will solve a very annoying problem. When you're making a layout from scratch, a lot of times you'll have to delete a part here and there and add it in somewhere else. But this causes the component list to go out of order. For example my order of resistors right now is: 1-2-4-5-6-8-7-3. Could you add a button or solve this bug automatically? I don't think it should be so hard to implement.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: nordine on October 16, 2008, 12:34:45 PM
hey bacinka, or anyone who knows the how to..

how do i render my layout? ...as with the render option on early DIY LC version,
i can't find that option, i just have the save as a png file, which is useless for doing layouts, because prints all the stuff and i want just the tracks

thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: sickbend on October 17, 2008, 06:02:26 PM
nordine I'll give this a shot. what I did was goto board properties on the left side under quick tasks toolbar. Left click it it opens another window select pcb under layout type it's the last one then under render image. There is a new blue square icon saying render PnP click that and it opens another window so you can name your file. That's just the traces file for your project scaled to size   
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: nordine on October 31, 2008, 11:47:27 PM
nordine I'll give this a shot. what I did was goto board properties on the left side under quick tasks toolbar. Left click it it opens another window select pcb under layout type it's the last one then under render image. There is a new blue square icon saying render PnP click that and it opens another window so you can name your file. That's just the traces file for your project scaled to size   

now i understand your talking about the old one

im running on vista, the java version


tried the old version on Vista using the Compatibiity mode, but, can't use the right click... any ideas on fixing that? ..is it the same for others?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: sixstringphil on November 01, 2008, 02:12:06 AM
Couple of things with the most recent version:

Undo is a little finicky. The first undo click always resizes my page to the huge default size.

Also, I still get a blank sheet of paper when I print. (Same as with the old version) Anyone ever find a cause/fix for this?

Thanks for all the work that has gone into this software. I just read all 72 pages of the thread. It's come a long way!!
Title: How do you scale "DIY Layout Creater" files?
Post by: PurpleStrat on November 09, 2008, 06:12:17 PM
I have some that I am going to have our own John Lyons make in to PCB's but I can't figure out how to get them to scale. Any help?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: earthtonesaudio on November 11, 2008, 07:51:10 AM
A couple questions for the Layout experts:

*I'm using a Mac with OSX, and the latest (Java) version of DIY Layout Creator*

1. When I attach two traces, the blue dots at the ends of the lines don't disappear.  For example if I want to make a right angle with copper traces, there's a blue dot where they come together.  How can I make the blue dots go away?
2. Is there a good way to print a PCB layout with a blank white background, rather than the grid background?
3. When I want to add a potentiometer (schematic symbol), it doesn't land where I drag-and-drop it, but way over to the right and towards the bottom of the grid.  Is this a software thing or am I doing something wrong?


Sorry if these have already been answered in this thread (I searched but to no avail).  70-plus pages is a lot to go through...  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 11, 2008, 12:13:06 PM
1) blue dots are there for you to see that you can drag them, they are not exported to image.
2) not sure, but I don't think so but next version will definitely have that feature
3) yeah, it's a bug...sorry :(
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: earthtonesaudio on November 11, 2008, 01:17:10 PM
Thanks Branislav!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bassmasta17 on November 24, 2008, 08:04:38 PM
i just want to say thanks for such a great program. i might never make anything again with out it. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Electric Warrior on November 25, 2008, 10:11:26 AM
I'm using the Java version on a MacBook. Horizontal scrolling with the touchpad doesn't work. No problems with vertical scrolling.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ianmgull on November 28, 2008, 12:18:25 AM
Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked before but I can't figure out how to render a PNP image. I'm using 2.0.1 beta on a MacBook Pro. On the old windows version there was a render PNP option but now I can only export the image with components and text on. I'm I missing something obvious?

Thanks,
Ian
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Sir_Ian on December 10, 2008, 05:11:00 AM
I'm sure this has been asked before...and I tried searching and digging, but I came up with nothing.

I've made a layout for the green ringer, and I uploaded it (about 2 weeks ago). And when I go online I can't find it. Is there something I need to do to get it posted?(besides uploading it). I appreciate the program, and its really cool, and I just thought it would be nice if others could benefit from some of my work. 'tis all.

thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: earthtonesaudio on December 10, 2008, 12:04:30 PM
Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked before but I can't figure out how to render a PNP image. I'm using 2.0.1 beta on a MacBook Pro. On the old windows version there was a render PNP option but now I can only export the image with components and text on. I'm I missing something obvious?

Thanks,
Ian

Here's what I do:

Draw the layout complete with copper traces and components. 
Use the "lock layers" function to lock either the pads/traces or components. 
Drag the components off, or the pads out from under, or copy-paste the pads/traces and move them to another location.  Basically you just want to get the copper traces separate from the rest of the layout or schematic.
Then, with the "blank board" tool, make a box around the pads and traces. 
The box is green by default, so change its color to white. 
Then you can export the image, crop so that just the box with the copper traces image is visible, resize (if necessary) and print.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: svstee on December 13, 2008, 07:17:55 PM
This is a great program!
Is it possible to have multiple boards in the same layout? I couldn't find anything on that.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bassmasta17 on December 14, 2008, 02:21:09 PM
Hi,
I'm thinking about making piece of software for speeding up drawing perfboard and vero layouts. It would have library with components and user would drag&drop them over board. Also, it would have it's own format and ability to save to gif/jpg.
And of course, it would be freeware :)
Would this be useful, should I waste my time on this?
Thanks,
Branislav
where would we be with out that???
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: DavidRavenMoon on December 25, 2008, 10:54:15 PM
I just downloaded this program... seems very cool.  I downloaded the java version as I'm on a Mac.  However I can't open any of the layouts I downloaded.  The Mac adds a .txt ending to the files, so I remove that and leave them with the .diy ending, but the software tells me they are an unrecognized file format.  I notice when opening them in a test editor that they are formatted differently from the ones I create.

The answer might be in this very long thread somewhere, but I haven't read much of it.


Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on December 26, 2008, 09:12:51 AM
The Java version is not compatile with the old .diy file format.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on December 26, 2008, 11:56:43 AM
there is a converter though, but I'm not sure where it is...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: DavidRavenMoon on December 26, 2008, 02:43:11 PM
Ok, I figured it was something like that.  I'll have to look for the converter.

Thanks!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: lazerphea on December 26, 2008, 05:49:03 PM
Thanks a lot for this great software, Bancika! It is very useful and user-friendly!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on December 27, 2008, 08:44:03 AM
Yes,

I've coded that converter... Have to look for it though. has been a long time. I'm just  too busy lately
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: rnfr on December 30, 2008, 10:55:00 PM
if you find the converter, can you post a link?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: cloudscapes on December 31, 2008, 08:25:12 PM
I've started using this a little this week for the first time in over a year, and last time I was only doing stripboards, not PCBs.

one feature I think would be nice is the ability to load a background image to the grid as a guide. especially useful if you're using many PCB-mounted pots that sort of follow a design. or LEDs or anything else that's PCB mount that has to do with the look.

I've also found a bug. ;) undoing will revert the page dimensiosn to the default.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: irnmadn88 on January 13, 2009, 12:39:00 PM
I just downloaded the program and only fiddled with it briefly...

My hope is to take the DOD FX 90 REV A schematic that is available here: http://www.schematicheaven.com/effects/dodfx90_delay.pdf and take my REV H pedal and make a comparison schematic as part of the learning curve...

First question, please forgive the NOOB nature...

When drawing the circuit on the PCB, is there a way to flip the image? I ask because the strip side is obviously opposite the component side, and my first thought is that I would render the strip side in the program then place the components on the board... but I forsee having to do it in mirror form?

I have already listed what components are present on the REV A schematic on a separate paper, and will try and do the same for the REV H...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Barcode80 on January 13, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
I just downloaded the program and only fiddled with it briefly...

My hope is to take the DOD FX 90 REV A schematic that is available here: http://www.schematicheaven.com/effects/dodfx90_delay.pdf and take my REV H pedal and make a comparison schematic as part of the learning curve...

First question, please forgive the NOOB nature...

When drawing the circuit on the PCB, is there a way to flip the image? I ask because the strip side is obviously opposite the component side, and my first thought is that I would render the strip side in the program then place the components on the board... but I forsee having to do it in mirror form?

I have already listed what components are present on the REV A schematic on a separate paper, and will try and do the same for the REV H...
you wouldn't render in mirror. since you are viewing the pcb from the top in the program, you are actually looking at the reverse image already.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: irnmadn88 on January 13, 2009, 09:54:02 PM
Thanks... it make sense now that I have started rendering with the program.

Trying to get the strip side "graphed" is very time consuming...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: scratch on January 18, 2009, 11:48:03 AM
anybody find that converter yet? to allow the V1 layouts to be opened in the beta version ...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Captainobvious99 on January 19, 2009, 04:04:37 PM
73 pages  :o

Can we get a link to the program DL on the first page or OP ?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: scratch on January 19, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
on any of Bancika's replies click on the "DIY Fever" banner at the bottom the reply to take you to his site ... You'll find the software and layouts there
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mth5044 on February 09, 2009, 09:50:10 PM
I don't think I can stomach going through 73 pages to find this answer, so I thought I'd venture out and ask  :icon_razz:

Is there a way to make 'ground planes'? I found out how to enlarge the traces, but that would make it big on both sides, not doing what I want  :icon_mad:

heh thanks  :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on February 09, 2009, 10:51:06 PM
I don't think I can stomach going through 73 pages to find this answer, so I thought I'd venture out and ask  :icon_razz:

Is there a way to make 'ground planes'? I found out how to enlarge the traces, but that would make it big on both sides, not doing what I want  :icon_mad:

heh thanks  :)

To do this, i usually outline the ground plane with normal small traces, then once i have rendered the image i open it in photoshop and fill in the plane.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: mth5044 on February 09, 2009, 11:55:50 PM
Good thinking! Thanks man  :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: alparent on February 11, 2009, 10:54:35 AM
Just a little question for bancika.
Why is you application setup trying to change my IE settings?
McAfee is picking it up and won't allow it.

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on February 17, 2009, 11:38:25 AM
Hmm, it doesn't mess with IE or anything else in the system...check that file is not infected with a virus or something.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on March 05, 2009, 12:53:07 PM
by the way, I changed my domain from storm-software.co.yu/diy to diy-fever.com, if some link doesn't work just replace the first part and it should be ok
Cheers
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: kristoffereide on March 13, 2009, 02:14:26 PM
I'm having problems with your software. It says "No active document", and won't allow me to do anything...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on March 14, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
me too. i couldve sworn someone said it worked in vista, but the original won't work. I would use the new one, but every time I try to move the end of a trace if i accidentally touch a component the component comes with. no good for me.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: kldguitar on April 14, 2009, 09:27:56 PM
we commonly use protel . it is good software to design pcb and schematic.if some want, please send email to me. I send it by mailbigfile
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ianmgull on April 14, 2009, 10:19:26 PM
me too. i couldve sworn someone said it worked in vista, but the original won't work. I would use the new one, but every time I try to move the end of a trace if i accidentally touch a component the component comes with. no good for me.

Settings> Uncheck "Sticky Points" ;-)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bside2234 on April 14, 2009, 10:52:36 PM
Or hold down shift while you move components. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: J-Bones on April 19, 2009, 12:41:43 AM
Hey Bancika,

I'm just getting started with pedal building and thought I'd give this program a shot.  Man, I'm glad I did!  I used it to layout a selectable frequency booster circuit and had no problems.  I'm lovin' it!

The rest of my parts should be here on Monday.  Now, if the actual build goes that smooth, I'll be very happy.    :D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: kristoffereide on April 19, 2009, 06:58:51 PM
to all of you that can't run this program... right click and runs as admin, I figured it out a week ago...
only have to do it the first time
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JFX09 on April 30, 2009, 06:52:10 PM
Hello,

I have downloaded the programm and I'm getting my head around it and I have to say that so far, it's fantastic, very easy to use (the multi-platform version)

But I have a little problem,. When I select print, it prints a blank page. I'm sure it must be some easy thing to solve, but I can't figure it out, sorry.
Any help will be greatly aprreciated. By the way I'm trying to print a simple pcb, solder pads and traces, nothing complicated.

thanks in advance.


jf

edit: I apologise in advance if this problem has been adreessed before, I could't find an answer usin search.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: kristoffereide on May 01, 2009, 07:14:12 AM
click "render image" and print the image
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: JFX09 on May 01, 2009, 09:10:45 AM
I take it you mean export image? I'm using V. 2.0.1. multi-platform.

I tried that (export img to png and then printing it with paint) but it's way too big. How do I get it to the right size?

thanks a lot

jf
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: imcdermott on May 14, 2009, 12:43:39 AM
I'm new to the forum and haven't figured out if i can search within a thread. So sorry if this has already been asked. But I'm new to pedal building and was checking out your program. I downloaded the beta2 version (i'm a mac user) and i can't open any of the files on your website. Is there something I have to do first? Thanks! And again, sorry If this has been answered.

Ian
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bside2234 on May 14, 2009, 01:02:43 AM
You have to save the file to your hard drive. Open DIY Layout Creator and then open the file from the program.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on May 14, 2009, 03:30:46 PM
actually, most of those layout files are in the old program format and as mentioned earlier in the thread, they cannot be opened within the new version.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bside2234 on May 14, 2009, 03:55:34 PM
actually, most of those layout files are in the old program format and as mentioned earlier in the thread, they cannot be opened within the new version.

You're right. I forgot about that.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Johnnie D. on May 17, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
There was a guy who had the same problem as me but I didn't see where there was an answer to the file format not recognized when trying to open diy files from the program in xp.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Johnnie D. on May 17, 2009, 11:57:55 AM
O.K. Sorry for taking up space. I downloaded and installed the windows version only and it opens the files.
Thank you.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Elektrojänis on May 18, 2009, 03:26:26 PM
by the way, I changed my domain from storm-software.co.yu/diy to diy-fever.com, if some link doesn't work just replace the first part and it should be ok
Cheers

Probably because of the domain change, the update library in help setting gives this error: java.net.UnknownHostException: www.storm-software.co.yu

I don't know if there is anything to update really (I just downloaded the latest multi platform version a few days ago), but I just thought to report it...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: punkin on June 01, 2009, 09:44:59 PM
I must be missing something...I can't seem to find a link to this application that works. Is the link active? Perhaps I've got the wrong URL? :icon_frown:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: .Mike on June 01, 2009, 09:48:37 PM
http://diy-fever.com/index.php?project=software :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: TheAttackman on August 21, 2009, 10:33:32 PM
How can I make it work with mounted pots??
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: sodapop on September 14, 2009, 10:14:55 AM
I get "No Active Document" error.  any fix for this?  I am trying the multi-platform version.  Is this the right one if using Vista?
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: peps1 on September 18, 2009, 10:24:13 AM
Stunning little bit of software, I do a lot of stuff on strip-board, and it always difficult to document.....but this program makes it incredibly simple! 

Using the Java multi-platform version 2 on a Mac Book, and works like a charm.

Any plans to add to the libs? 
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on September 20, 2009, 02:40:52 PM
I get "No Active Document" error.  any fix for this?  I am trying the multi-platform version.  Is this the right one if using Vista?
right click on the jar and set it to run in compatability mode, or set it to run as admin (don't remember which worked for me). One of those will fix it.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: EARNEST on October 05, 2009, 04:55:26 PM
I really liked this software, but it was too slow, so I had to switch to Eagle :(
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Hupla on October 08, 2009, 06:12:37 PM
This software really is great. :) A few more components though like connectors would be cool too.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: jessej on October 09, 2009, 02:05:50 PM
I would like to say thank you for this wonderful piece of software!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: Electric Warrior on October 18, 2009, 08:56:52 AM
1) blue dots are there for you to see that you can drag them, they are not exported to image.
2) not sure, but I don't think so but next version will definitely have that feature

1. They do appear in the exported image.
2. Just put white blank board underneath the traces
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on November 09, 2009, 10:26:44 AM
Hi folks,

I had some time to start working on the new version with completely new engine that should provide more functionality and run smoother than the previous version...
I'll keep you posted.

Cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Hupla on November 09, 2009, 11:16:53 AM
Hi folks,

I had some time to start working on the new version with completely new engine that should provide more functionality and run smoother than the previous version...
I'll keep you posted.

Cheers,
Bane

I dunno if its a common thing but whenever I tried to test connectivity a jumper was created. just to keep in mind.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on November 23, 2009, 06:57:12 PM
Just as a heads up - the new version is going rather well. These are some of the changes from the previous version:


cheers,
Bane
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: ~arph on November 24, 2009, 02:20:09 AM
Sounds good!

nice to see some progress  :D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on November 25, 2009, 04:17:34 AM
tnx mate.
I forgot these:

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: alparent on December 19, 2009, 10:37:15 AM
Question about the current version.

Is it normal for it to be SUPER SLOW?

Anything I do takes an eternity to refresh!

Any ideas?

Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: roseblood11 on December 20, 2009, 01:57:21 AM
Hi,

it would be really great if the new version had an option to print the layout! That would include the possibility to scale it to the correct size (and to save it with selectable size/dpi setting...) For those of us who use the toner transfer method to etch their pcbs it would be good to have an option to print more than one copy of the layout on one page (close together, to iron the complete print-out to the pcb).

wish list for new components:

-Small trace cut between two holes of the vero-board !!!
-inline sockets with variable number of pins (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/images/SPL20.jpg (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/images/SPL20.jpg))
-round transistor sockets ("TO-5"?)(http://www.musikding.de/images/product_images/popup_images/3sockel.jpg (http://www.musikding.de/images/product_images/popup_images/3sockel.jpg)), because many people use them for germanium transistors
-and for the mojo freaks: TO-99 IC sockets (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/images/G17063B.jpg (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/images/G17063B.jpg)) - the ĩA741 that is used in some famous old pedals (DOD-250, MXR Dist+, Microamp...) was also sold in this mojo metalcase. I really like to use them because they just look cool...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: arch0r on December 20, 2009, 02:58:41 AM
Question about the current version.

Is it normal for it to be SUPER SLOW?

Anything I do takes an eternity to refresh!

Any ideas?

Thanks

same here. i'm running the multiplatform version via java under linux and it's painfully slow. but i'm looking forward to it, when more stable and faster releases will appear :)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: alparent on December 27, 2009, 05:43:51 PM
Just installed the new multi-platform beta version...............much faster!  But I get a "File format not recognized" error when I try to open layouts created with the windows only version.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on December 28, 2009, 05:53:00 AM
yeah, they aren't back-compatible...for the new version I'm working on I plan to do that...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Steve Mavronis on January 10, 2010, 10:39:31 AM
I'm new to this software. I have the old Windows version installed, but how does the multi-platform beta version work with those Java files? I have Java installed and running Windows Vista. [EDIT] Never mind, I figured it out!
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Steve Mavronis on January 11, 2010, 08:39:55 AM
Forgive me if this has already been addressed somewhere in the 76 pages of this thread. Is there any way to update the library toolbox? When I try the update feature I just get an http link error but maybe this isn't functional yet being a beta version. Is there a way to manually add custom objects to the library? Just curious being new to DIYLC.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: acidblue on January 13, 2010, 08:35:02 PM
Using the multi-platform version on Ubuntu 9

When program starts the library window is blank, no components.
It's just white.

When I try to open a diy file I get "file format not recognized".
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on January 14, 2010, 04:14:52 AM
make sure that you have library folder in the working dir.
As for the other thing, you're probably trying to load files from the old version...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: acidblue on January 14, 2010, 12:06:31 PM
Library folder is in same directory as .jar file.

You mean I can't open older .diy files?

Where can i download an older version of DIY editor
so I can open older diy files.

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Steve Mavronis on January 15, 2010, 07:35:11 AM
Where can i download an older version of DIY editor
so I can open older diy files.

You mean the older Windows exe version here?

http://diy-fever.com/index.php?project=software

Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Steve Mavronis on January 15, 2010, 07:39:16 AM
Bancika,

I just want to express much thanks for your DIY Layout Creator software. I'm really looking forward to your next release with the new features you've previously described!

Besides laying out PCB board trace runs, I really love that the components look fairly realistic and that you can size them. Perfect for illustration uses too.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: bancika on January 15, 2010, 01:31:06 PM
tnx mate
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: acidblue on January 15, 2010, 02:57:00 PM
Thanks for the link steve.
But I'm on  linux box.
I need an older version of the multiplatform one, if there is one.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Kitarist on January 17, 2010, 06:11:19 PM
What kind of app did you use to make this application :D :D
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on January 18, 2010, 04:29:40 AM
the old one is written in delphi, the new one in java (eclipse and net beans)
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: snarblinge on January 18, 2010, 05:19:32 PM
running the old version sweet as on my Windows Laptop, and the new version on my mac.

having trouble starting the new java one on the laptop.

EDIT: sorted the issue, updated JAVA and it stopped being a Nokia application file. yay

love your work bro...
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: trjones1 on January 20, 2010, 03:26:27 PM
I've been using the Layout Creator on my Mac and it works great.  I don't know if this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, but is there a trimpot in the library?  I was looking for it yesterday and couldn't find one.  Maybe something to add to v.3.  Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layou
Post by: phector2004 on January 28, 2010, 12:51:57 AM
thanks a million for making this!

it's great for turning a simple schematic into the visual mess of wires that it becomes when you build it in real life, really helps with seeing where everything should go/packing it all into the box!

is it in any way possible for you to add a 9v battery to the components list? :icon_question:
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: humptydumpty on January 28, 2010, 02:49:36 AM
i dont know if this has been asked yet, but maybe some leds and stereo/mono phone jacks also?  i would also like to change the color of the capacitors
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: acidblue on January 28, 2010, 01:26:59 PM
Tried running this on 2 different Linux boxes, both Unbuntu, versions 8.10 and the latest one 9.10
Both times the library window is blank and the default blank board
doesn't load.

No error messages, the program loads with both windows blank, the main page
and the library window.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: Steve Mavronis on February 16, 2010, 06:11:29 PM
Is there any way to turn the grid display off so I can export the layout without it to make a PCB? In the meantime I'll place a blank board behind my trace layout and color it white to hide the grid.
Title: Re: DIY Layout Creator - software for easy drawing PCB, vero and perfboard layouts
Post by: bancika on F