Don't laugh as I had a bit of 'stage fright' since I knew I was recording and knew that I'd be posting the clips to you guys. It's embarassing listening to how sloppy my playing is; I'd forgotten how tedious recording can be.
Both clips were recorded with my Ibanez Artist AR700 (Jap) w/Duncan '59s, into my Super Reverb reissue. EQ on the SRRI was set to 5 on treble and mid (25k pot on mid), 4 on bass, volume was on 2; all of this recorded with a Shure SM57 going into a Presonus Firebox. Wearing a grey 'MGM Grand' t-shirt, olive green shorts, no socks, no shoes. AC is set at 75deg inside. Not raining outside.
http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyHalfGain.wav
This clip has the gain at 50%, treble at about 60-65%, bass at 70%, mids at 50%, presence at 0%.
http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyFullGain.wav
This clip has the gain at 100%, treble at 75%, bass at 100%, mids at 0%, presence at 0%.
The biggest difference I can hear between the two settings on the Dr. Boogey (that you can't hear as well in the clips) is that with the gain maxed, it stops adding distortion and starts adding compression once you reach 75-80% of the way up. WARNING: The first clips is around 2MB and the second is around 3.5-4MB, so you dial-up users should go get some lunch while you wait.
Enjoy.
Those sound really great, thanks! I've been wanting more clips of this for a while.
It sounds like it does a good "palm-mute chug," which is something I haven't found in most high-gain DIY distortions (not including the BSAIB II).
I'll be looking into this. Thanks for sharing!
-Alex
A co-worker of mine is a bass player in a local band and gave me some good recommendations for mic placement, so I'll try those tomorrow night and see if there's a difference. The sound in those clips is more midrangey than in reality, so I'd like to capture the TRUE sound as close as possible.
- Buck
How in the world do you stop the mid pot from squealing in those things?
I finally got mine working pretty well tonight by putting the original DB values back in, but I still get oscillation at anything over 25% on the mid pot regardless of how the other knobs are set.
It would be the perfect high-gain pedal without that quirk.
RDV
RDV,
Dude, I don't know. :) Using an MPF102 for Q1 is the biggest thing I've done that keeps the noise down and the gain up to 'Rectifier' levels. I had that problem I think the first time I put it in a case, but not since then.
I've rewired this thing at least five times now; from the first build outside of a case, to the final build now, inside the case. In between there, I changed a few part values to match the 'Dual Rectifier specs' that the guy from OLCircuits uses; I didn't like them so I went back to the stock Dr. Boogey values. This last time, I took my time and cut all wires to almost exact lengths before soldering. The only real 'mod' I've done, and I'm only saying that because it deviates from the schematic, is that I removed the .001uF cap (1nF) between the trimpots on Q2 & 3 (I think those are the ones). Electrictabs recommended this a long time ago, and this is how I had it set up most of the time. That's it.
It's a finicky device that is VERY sensitive to outside noise (which is why I now have to invest in a flat-panel LCD to replace my VGA monitor), but man, I don't have anything else like it.
The other high gain boxes I've built (Big Muff, BSIAB II & May Queen) have been remarkably quiet.
- Buck
Ricky,
I'm not the best builder here by any means...but my Dr. Boogie works GREAT!! I used J201's throughout and get excellent recto gain - no squeeling anywhere in any of the dials. Might be time to cut bait and rebuild...
Once I get all the new builds off my bench (Nelson's Orange Graphic PCB/Vero anyone?), I'm going to rebuild my BSIABII and Thunderchief from Torchy's vero layouts (I've never been happy with the sound of either...but you guys all seem to love them!).
Just my 2-cents.
Mike
mydementia,
I may have to try a J201 in the Q1 spot again; I just remember that it has SO much gain that way that I had to tame it down some. I wasn't terribly happy with the Thunderchief build, but you're right; some folks seem to love them. I'm more than happy with the hot Marshall sounds out of my BSIAB II right now.
Did you finish with the Orange Graphic sim? How does it sound? One reviewer mentioned that it's a little fuzzy a la Big Muff, which kinda turned me off as I'm not much of a fuzz guy and like tubey distortion more.
- Buck
Haven't tried the Orange sim yet...I've been sidetracked by a flurry of vero projects (just discovered Torchy's archive at Indyguitarist). MartyMart seems to like it (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=45112.0) and I tend to agree with his JFET Emu tastes (except the JCM800...too brittle/shrill for my ears - but fits that certain 80's hair metal/Nigel Tufnel 'goes to 11' niche...).
I was hoping in the couple months of my being sidetracked that someone would make a nice vero or PCB layout for the stand-alone version of this beastie... Paul did provide this: http://cordova.asap.um.maine.edu/~raymondj/imagehost/stereoamp.pdf but I haven't been able to make a 1:1 correlation to the schematic...
I'll have a go at a PCB layout using banika's tool as soon as I get some time...sure wish I thougth in vero - it's so easy!
Mike
What value did you guys use for the presence pot? I used 100k, but I've also seen 25k.
I did a lot of work last night changing the values back to the Dr. Boogie values which made it sound really good. It's just that I can't turn the mid pot up much before I get that squeal. I'm gonna trim my wires tonight to the exact length needed to box it up and see what that does.
RDV
I think I used 100k for Presence. I'll try all J201s tonight and see if there is any difference.
- Buck
I built from Buck's layout here:
(http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/DrBoogeyPartsLayout.gif)
Used a 25kB for the Mid and a 250kA for the Treb. No other subs...
I had two boards made when I did my first boogie - I'm going ot build my second one (for my other practice space) this summer... hopefully I'll be lucky twice!
Good luck with yours.
Mike
I used the layout Gringo did. I wonder if there's a difference as far as the noise factor.
RDV
Quote from: RDV on June 23, 2006, 04:39:09 PM
I used the layout Gringo did. I wonder if there's a difference as far as the noise factor.
I can't attest to my layout being quieter than another, I just know that I laid everything out the best I could and tried to keep it as close together as I could. If I had to do it over again (and I probably won't), I'd space everything out a little more to make it less susceptible to noise. I THINK it was Gringo's layout that I used for the English Channel, but can't be sure.
- Buck
I used Gringo's because that's the layout the person who made the PCB used. They look pretty similar except gringo's has more ground points.
I need to get off my big butt and start etching my own PCBs!
RDV
I just noticed that gringo left out the 5nF from the power rail to ground. I'm going to add it and post the results, if any.
I put it back in the case and the output went down and it started that confounded whistling again, but I believe I've found the culprit. It seems to be the treble pot being pulled all the way across the circuit cause I wanted it in a certain place. Phooey!
I'll be back.
RDV
A-HA!!
That was it!
Anybody that bought a PCB from OLcircuits for the DB before he pulled them and is having a problem, there was a 5nF from the 9v to ground by the second FET that was left out of gringo's layout that apparently is real important!
I used a .0047µF that I soldered to the rail and then to ground. I can now turn up all the knobs all the way with no SQUEAL.
I'm happy for the 1st time in days dude.
I apologise for hijacking your thread Bucksears but this was driving me crazy!
I came home from work yesterday in my hot van only to find a hot house. My air had gone out during the day and it was 95 out. They told me my air's shot and I was bummin' but this makes my day. I've been working on this for a week at least.
COOL.
RDV
Man, no apology necessary. I'm glad you got it working. I'll do some clips of the May Queen and Big Muff next.
- Buck
Thanks for the clips. (and thanks for the PCB and layout as well) To me, this pedal really shines with a Strat. Maybe it's just Mesa Boogie's in general but the shimmer just accentuates the tone of a Strat. It's not bad with a LP but can sometimes sound indistinguishable from my other distortion pedals.
I can't decide between the J201 and the MPF102. I love the fact that the MPF102 eliminates the noise but I wish it had just a tad more gain back. The J201 is definitely more noisy and I find that I only need 75% of the gain on hand. Is there a low noise option between the J201 and MPF102? Where would the 2N5457 fall?
Thanks,
Jason
Lots of people are using Mpf102 at Q1. This includes me. I think some have also tried one at Q2 also. I tried all Mpf102 at 1st but thought it lacked some volume like that. I also used a 500k gain pot instead of 1meg because I want to try it with my Marshall and I run the amp with some front end gain in the 1st place so I'm hoping to keep things from getting mushy. With the 500k gain pot I seem to be able to dial in some lower gain tube amp type tones. More testing will take place tomorrow.
RDV
Tried the 2N5457 and it is the perfect compromise between the J201 and MPF102. Unfortunately it is quite noisy like the J201. Although the MPF102 is much quiter, something about the way it effects the EQ annoys me. It seems to take away the bass and makes the eq less responsive. To me, the J201 and 2N5457 are more noisy but retain that mid scoop a bit better.
Yeah, gain-wise, the 2N5457 is between the MPF102 and J201, but closer to the J. I've heard that the 2N5457 is a little darker-sounding than the J201.
Could try a 2N5457 for both Q1 and Q2?
- Buck
Bucksears,
Do you have a layout?
Thanks
You can download them here:
http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/stompboxes.html
Quote from: Bucksears on June 24, 2006, 08:11:03 PM
Yeah, gain-wise, the 2N5457 is between the MPF102 and J201, but closer to the J. I've heard that the 2N5457 is a little darker-sounding than the J201.
Could try a 2N5457 for both Q1 and Q2?
- Buck
Actually, I stand corrected. The MPF102 IS the way to go. I just realized that I not only need to rebias Q1 but the other three transistors as well. The gain is now equal to the 2N5457 and the circuit is much quieter. I think I might try the MPF102 for a 2N5457 in the BSIABII and see if it will get rid of the noise that I have always had with that circuit.
Quote from: Bucksears on June 25, 2006, 12:26:25 AM
You can download them here:
http://www.4thlevelmedia.com/stompboxes.html
Thank you!!
Buck'-
I noticed that the PCB and the "Parts Layout" PCB are slightly (after a "quick" look - looked to be the same circuit - didn't trace it ALL the way thru) different. Any difference? Sugestions, cautions, tips, warnings ;)
Does the Parts Layout still work for "that" PCB Layout?
Use the PCB for etching/building the circuit and the Parts Layout for reference.
The differences are that the pads are a little larger on the PCB for some of the off-board connections and the component-to-ground traces across the bottom on the Parts Layout don't connect all the way; it's just because I enlarged the parts layout for easier viewing of the component values. The traces and pads became thinner on the Parts Layout, but the PCB works fine.
- Buck
hi,
do you use 3k9 at the source of the third JFet? in the original Rectifier-circuit, this cathode-resistor have 39k!
best greetings,
markus
Quote from: kusi on June 26, 2006, 09:45:17 AM
hi,
do you use 3k9 at the source of the third JFet? in the original Rectifier-circuit, this cathode-resistor have 39k!
best greetings,
markus
I tried a 39k and it makes it very hard to bias a J201, almost impossible unless you use a larger trimmer there. The Dr. Boogie values are the ones that rock this pedal IMO.
RDV
Dammit, dammit, dammit...
I just put my second Dr. Boogey together and it squeels like a banshee!!! I ran wires fairly short and tried an MPF102 in Q1 and then in Q2 - same result. The tone is EXCELLENT - but when I stop playing, it squeels. :icon_evil: :icon_evil:
So...anyone have the magic bullet for this one? Which wires, specifically, are supposed to be 'short' in high gain circuits? I get a nice pitch shift in squeel when I turn the treble and mid pots past about 8:00 (6:00 = 0). When the presence is cranked beyond 12:00 - squeel is worse...when gain is cranked byond 12:00 - squeel is worse. All the drains biased to 1/2 supply voltatge just fine...I thought I was golden! I even pulled all the wires away from the board - no change. I've built a dozen (or more) high gain circuits in my 'career' and have NEVER experienced squeeling like this!
I'm SOOOOO glad I didn't take my first build out of the box to 'finish' it - that one still sounds great...and doesn't squeel!
Any help will be greatly appreciated...
Mike
I find squeeling can be stopped by keeping the input and output wire as far away from each other as possible. Sheilding them may also stop the squeeling.
My 2 cents (worth about that much until I build one)...
There's bigger issues than just wiring here. I'd try these changes...
- Add Miller capacitors on the gates. Search the forum. RDV had positive comments on these.
- Filter the power supply. Look at a real amp schematic for suggestions. They don't use a single +V for all of the triodes; they use a series of RC (resistor/capacitor) filters. The ampsim would benefit from the same power scheme. I'd use smaller value resistors and larger value caps due to the lower voltage... maybe R/10, C*10. Exact values aren't important. I bet this would make all the difference.
- Star grounding.
If all that fails, I'd then resort to shielding the offboard wiring and lead dress. But it shouldn't mattter by then.
There's a wealth of info here-Thanks guys! I'll try these mods/fixes. I've got the board done but unpopulated.
My question is what enclosures are you guys putting this in? It doesn't look like it will fit in a 1590bb. Got any pics?
Sean
I just gotta say WOW!
This circuit is certainly Very Aggressive.
Nice work guys, not my cup of tea but, I can see why everyone is pumped up about the DB.
Good Job! :icon_cool:
FWIW, I'm kinda working on a slightly expanded version of the Dr. Boogey PCB layout. When I was first doing layouts, I was very concerned with getting the whole PCB-as-small-as-possible thing; now, I'm more concerned that the parts are a little too close together and might benefit (noise-wise) from more space.
I'll see if I can add the 'Miller caps' thing as well, if that will help tame it.
It's coming soon, but I have my side-business getting started at the moment.
Thanks,
- Buck
p.s. My Dr. Boogey is in the standard 1590BB, but it's a little tight with 6 controls (2 rows of 3).
QuoteI find squeeling can be stopped by keeping the input and output wire as far away from each other as possible.
Same thing here. I'm using taiwanese 1590B and DPDT footswitch. The solder lugs are very close to each other and whenusing the Millenium bypass the Doctor squeals like crazy. My solution: desolder the output lead from the DPDT FS and keep In and Out at least an inch away from each other.
Still no go...but now I have a new 'feature'...
When the circuit is bypassed (I always use JD's grounded input switching: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_3pdt_ig_dcjack.gif) I get squeel when I rotate the gain knob past about 8:00 (6:00 = min). WTF?
I used shielded wire for the I/O (input jack to switch - switch to input - output to switch - switch to output jack) and still have an MPF102 in Q1. I didn't add the Miller capacitors yet since I didn't add them to my first build (which is permanently in my rig - boogeying right along...NO SQUEELING!!).
This is absolutely perplexing... When I turn the gain pot to about 8:00 I can use all the controls just fine - and the tone is excellent - just a little less gain than I want. There's a little background noise - but nothing like the squeeling...
Recommendations? I'm almost ready to start from scratch using the DIY Layout tool and spacing out the components a little more just to see if it helps... this circuit sounds so good when it works...just irritates the heck out of me that my builds weren't consistent.
Thanks for looking.
Mike