DIYstompboxes.com

DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Dan N on December 03, 2006, 09:32:28 PM

Title: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Dan N on December 03, 2006, 09:32:28 PM
Recently Mr. Sir HC PMed me wanting my address so he could send me a new fuzz. Is that cool or what!

Photos!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/ctffront.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/ctfback.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/ctfin.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/ctfpcbtop.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/ctfpcbbot.jpg

On first glance it seemed to be a Fuzz Face with the fuzz controlled by a variable resistor in the feedback between base Q1 and emitter Q2. Once I got acloser look with my loop, I got this:

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/crazytone/ctfschem.gif

What the heck? Even now I keep looking at the darn thing for another connection to the collector on Q2. Nope. Sorry.

Here's a cartoon of the board:

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/crazytone/cftop.gif

I'm way open to any corrections. Physical or philosophical...

Thanks very much Chris!
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 03, 2006, 09:39:32 PM
That is too funny, I never noticed they were wired wrong!  I will have to look at some of the other ones that I have lying around, could be that the solder jocky that day was just off.

Glad you enjoy.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: rockgardenlove on December 03, 2006, 09:42:03 PM
Weird...
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: markm on December 03, 2006, 09:49:20 PM
Weird...

Agreed.
I really wish someone would give me some old effects  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Dan N on December 03, 2006, 09:55:35 PM
Forgot to mention- the thin yellow lines on the cartoon are where pads are connected by long part leads. Also, it's really a nice sounding fuzz! Not real sustainy, but warm and cleans up pretty good. Whoed of thought?
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: tcobretti on December 03, 2006, 10:23:25 PM
We had a thread a while back when one of these fuzzes turned up on ebay.  I'm glad I didn't buy it now that I have the schem!  I actually put this style of "fuzz" control into my fuzz face recently, and it is actually kinda interesting.  The cool thing is that it allows you to tune how responsive the fuzz is to changes in your guitar's volume knob.  I used a 20k resistor to set the minimum feedback resistance, then I put in a 50k pot to adjust the feedback resistance. 

Thanks for the post, it's a nice one for my schem archives!
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 03, 2006, 11:31:17 PM
I used this circuit to make my first fuzz face copies but hooked to the second collector.  I have no clue why they wouldn't do that.  Weird.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: tcobretti on December 03, 2006, 11:36:50 PM
I think I missed the weirdest part - the whole output not from the 2nd collector part.  What the heck?  In this case, what would the 2nd transistor even do besides provide feedback to the first transistor?
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 03, 2006, 11:41:28 PM
I'd definitely like to find out how this is supposed to be wired up.  I've wanted one of these for a while now.  Any idea of the ideal gain range of the transistors and any possible substitutes? 

And that is 510 ohms on the base of Q1, right? 

Also, speaking of crappy Japanese Fuzzes, if anybody is interested, I can post the schematic to my Walco "Full Frequency Fuzz Tone Generator".  Pretty common circuit with a short decay. 

-Zach Omega
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Harry on December 03, 2006, 11:52:08 PM
Also, speaking of crappy Japanese Fuzzes, if anybody is interested, I can post the schematic to my Walco "Full Frequency Fuzz Tone Generator".  Pretty common circuit with a short decay. 
Oh PLEASE PLEASE do!!!!
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 03, 2006, 11:53:21 PM
I have a bunch of these so I will open some up and see that they are all the same.  Could be they were copying a Fuzz Face and messed up.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 03, 2006, 11:54:29 PM
I'll start a separate thread for it. 

-Zach Omega

Also, speaking of crappy Japanese Fuzzes, if anybody is interested, I can post the schematic to my Walco "Full Frequency Fuzz Tone Generator".  Pretty common circuit with a short decay. 
Oh PLEASE PLEASE do!!!!
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 03, 2006, 11:56:54 PM
I would not be surprised.  sounds like an easy enough change to make as well if you wanted to switch between both "modes"...One as a more traditional fuzz face and the other as their version. 

Any word on those transistors?  I just went to Datasheetarchive and they claim they were supposed to have a hfe centered around 70.  I have a bunch of 2sb175's which fall right in that range.  I was going to use a few for rangemaster style boosts, but perhaps this is an application for them as well.  Although I just assumed they were germanium...Are they?

-Zach Omega

I have a bunch of these so I will open some up and see that they are all the same.  Could be they were copying a Fuzz Face and messed up.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: rockgardenlove on December 04, 2006, 12:01:42 AM
Uhm...is there any chance I could get one of these too?  How much would you want?
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Harry on December 04, 2006, 12:04:36 AM
I'll start a separate thread for it. 

-Zach Omega

Also, speaking of crappy Japanese Fuzzes, if anybody is interested, I can post the schematic to my Walco "Full Frequency Fuzz Tone Generator".  Pretty common circuit with a short decay. 
Oh PLEASE PLEASE do!!!!
Thank Yee! That must be the King of Cheesy Fuzz, huh?
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 04, 2006, 12:08:03 AM
Yeah, it is a fun effect.  The goof ball cases they come in with the hard wired cords and jacks is similar to the "muff fuzz" style...only cheaper...if that is possible.  The soldering on the boards is really pathetic.  On the sound go round I took apart, one of the caps is factory wired backwards...and on another one of their effects (possible the feedback eliminator) there are parts that have solder around the leads but the leads are free to move.  The worst is the Chord and note sustainer.  My first one (yes, I bought more than 1...) had a sprung jack out of the box, a crummy footswitch, and the board needed to be filed away so that I could get the 9 volt battery to fit.  Anyway, the Walco effect thread is started. 

-Zach Omega

I'll start a separate thread for it. 

-Zach Omega

Also, speaking of crappy Japanese Fuzzes, if anybody is interested, I can post the schematic to my Walco "Full Frequency Fuzz Tone Generator".  Pretty common circuit with a short decay. 
Oh PLEASE PLEASE do!!!!
Thank Yee! That must be the King of Cheesy Fuzz, huh?
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: slacker on December 04, 2006, 07:17:04 AM
looks interesting. One thing though, the fuzz put isn't providing negative feedback. The 22uF cap across the 1k5 resistor means that that point is at AC ground, so that end of the fuzz pot is at ground as far as the signal is concerned, all it's doing is loading down the input.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Paul Perry (Frostwave) on December 04, 2006, 08:03:02 AM
An interesting case of mutation in the wild fuzz population.
Just as the 'original' fuzz was a mutation of a standard 2 transistor stabilised bias amplifier.
Where does the 'fuzz' come from on this one? I think it's the misbiasing of the first transistor that is allowed by the fuzz knob.
And yes, the second transistor could be any damn thing.
This has made my day :icon_biggrin:
I can't see why this couldn't be the starting point for something good.....
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 04, 2006, 09:09:52 AM
These things are a lot of fun.  Splattery to the max. 
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 04, 2006, 09:22:46 AM
Now things are getting weird.

I have two PCBs for these things in front of me.  Different circuit!  2SB54 transistors, 100k in the normal position, 30k, 500 ohm, 8k in there too.  Caps 3.3u .01, and 22u.  I haven't traced in/out yet wires all cut, but this is just getting crazier.  And the resistors on these are different, one standard color coding, one, all dogbone with splashes of paint for the colors.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: analogmike on December 04, 2006, 11:00:30 AM
I have a few of these, never seem to work right. WORST CONSTRUCTION METHOD EVER!!!

When you open it up yuo WILL break wires. I improve these by unscrewing the circuit
board and mounting it to the top half with standoffs and tie wraps so that all the electronics are on the same half.

good luck!

you can see one of mine on top of the psychadelic machine, on the right of the rows of fuzzfaces.

(http://www.analogman.com/graphics/fuzzes.jpg)
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 04, 2006, 11:07:02 AM
So it is the same schematic but the 10k pot is 100k?  Output still taken from the collector of Q1?  And sweet, I have a couple of salvaged 2SB54's around. 

-Zach Omega

Now things are getting weird.

I have two PCBs for these things in front of me.  Different circuit!  2SB54 transistors, 100k in the normal position, 30k, 500 ohm, 8k in there too.  Caps 3.3u .01, and 22u.  I haven't traced in/out yet wires all cut, but this is just getting crazier.  And the resistors on these are different, one standard color coding, one, all dogbone with splashes of paint for the colors.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 04, 2006, 11:20:27 AM
Sir H C,

I drew this up real quick.  Does this roughly correspond with the units you have in front of you?

(http://www.evillovekills.com/zachomega/images/Crazyface2.JPG)

-Zach Omega
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 04, 2006, 11:29:04 AM
Nope, 8k and 500 in series on the collector of the 2nd q.  500 to the rail.  Cap for output taken from there.  100k is the resistor for the feedback, not a pot.  Fuzz pot is with the cap on the wiper I think (no pots with these).

I will have to dig through some more, whacky.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 04, 2006, 11:33:43 AM
So it is actually wired up like a true fuzz face then?

-Zach Omega

Nope, 8k and 500 in series on the collector of the 2nd q.  500 to the rail.  Cap for output taken from there.  100k is the resistor for the feedback, not a pot.  Fuzz pot is with the cap on the wiper I think (no pots with these).

I will have to dig through some more, whacky.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: slacker on December 04, 2006, 11:34:54 AM
Just what I was about to say, you beat me to it  :)
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 04, 2006, 11:45:26 AM
More like this?

(http://www.evillovekills.com/zachomega/images/Crazyface2V2.JPG)

-Zach Omega
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 04, 2006, 12:08:10 PM
That seems to be it.  Since the leads are all cut, I have to assume where they go.

Funny thing is that the PCB is pretty much the same as Dan's, but the components are in different places.  I will have to take some pictures.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: PenPen on December 04, 2006, 01:25:32 PM
Saved the original "wrong" schem. I'm going to breadboard this and try that out. If it is indeed doing something funny that no other fuzz has done it looks like it may be worth while.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 04, 2006, 05:30:21 PM
Here are some shots of other Crazytone/Crazyface fuzzes:

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/crazytone/crazytone-pcb-top.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/crazytone/crazytone-pcb.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/crazytone/crazytone-inside.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/crazytone/crazytone-circuit.jpg)

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/close%20shots/crazytone/crazytone-2-pcbs.jpg)
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Dan N on December 04, 2006, 10:51:11 PM
Thanks for the photos! I can easily see a Fuzz Face in those.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/earthstandstill/crazytone-insidemkdf.gif

My pcb does have holes for the same circuit. Just strange...

I'm going to take Mike's advise about remounting the pcb. Argh, too bad I can't display it on a psychedelic machine.

Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Paul Perry (Frostwave) on December 05, 2006, 12:08:44 AM
Funny thing is that the PCB is pretty much the same as Dan's, but the components are in different places.  I will have to take some pictures.

Makes me wonder what would happen if we gave a fuzz (or anythng else!) to those "circuit bender" guys.......
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 05, 2006, 01:42:46 AM
Sir H C,

Is that 5k pot on the one stock? 

-Zach
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: Sir H C on December 05, 2006, 09:33:58 AM
Zach, I don't think so.  I think that was a rat shack needed-a-pot-in-college mod.  I got these all in a box of busted pedals in college and would fudge/fix them for fun.  I think that pot is one that I had that was "close" to the needed values so I used it.
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: RedHouse on December 05, 2006, 09:50:45 AM
I have a few of these, never seem to work right. WORST CONSTRUCTION METHOD EVER!!!

When you open it up yuo WILL break wires. I improve these by unscrewing the circuit
board and mounting it to the top half with standoffs and tie wraps so that all the electronics are on the same half.

good luck!

you can see one of mine on top of the psychadelic machine, on the right of the rows of fuzzfaces.

(http://www.analogman.com/graphics/fuzzes.jpg)

Mike, your room is too messy, but not to worry, I have some extra room at my house for you to store some of your gear!   :icon_lol:
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 16, 2006, 01:49:10 PM
I just scored one of these things off of the bay and it finally came.  The two pots in mine are both 10k B pots.  One has an on/off switch attached to it. 

I like that it is true bypass with the stock wiring. 

Mine has two different transistors in it.  2SA350 and 2SA352.  What is the story on these transistors? 

The output is pretty low compared to the clean sound.  I'll take a look at what is going on and post a schematic.  The thing sounds all kinds of misbiased though. 

Also, mine doesn't have the battery compartment like some of them.  It has the solid bottom plate that needs to be removed when you want to access it and the board is held in place by the foot switch. 

-Zach Omega
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: zachomega on December 16, 2006, 02:47:56 PM
I checked mine...and it is wired up exactly like the first unit with the 2sa352 being Q1 and the 2sa350 being q2.

I also checked the grounds...It is 30 ohms resistance from the input and output jack ground ground to the power ground. 

Also, the 30k resistor measured 12k and then 15k with the meter leads reversed?  Sound like a bad resistor or the semiconductors playing games with me? 

The thing works and is actually fairly quiet...Just lower output, and clearly misbiased transistors.  The notes all trail off...but the attack is real buzzy. 

Would changing the 10k fuzz pot help in any way? 

-Zach Omega
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: analogmike on September 20, 2011, 02:35:55 PM
Old post but just wanted to put something here to help people who find this in google searches.

I have a few of them and found that they used the wrong value for the fuzz pot, a 50K pot with a 1K resistor across the wipers to try to get the resistance  down.

Replace the FUZZ pot with a 1K (or 1KC reverse taper better yet, available at Small Bear) and it should be much better. Leave the
resistor on the old pot, you don't need it, tape the pot/resistor assembly inside in case someone wants to put it back to stock someday.

have fun!
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: LucifersTrip on September 20, 2011, 04:07:43 PM
Does this thing have an official name, and is there any proper schematic?   The schem image in the first post no longer loads....

http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/crazytone/ctfschem.gif
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: tracks7 on September 26, 2011, 11:13:45 AM
I am in need of a schematic for one of these, im in the process of repairing one
Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: tcobretti on September 29, 2011, 10:47:42 PM
This is the only schem I have.  I never built it.  It still looks really strange to me.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=46337&g2_serialNumber=1)

Title: Re: "New" old fuzz. Round Japanese Crazy Tone style thingy!
Post by: rousejeremy on September 29, 2011, 11:01:45 PM
I have one of these! Sounded like sh*t so I put a point to point Germanium Fuzz in it.


(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y370/rouejeremy/100_2433.jpg)
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y370/rouejeremy/100_2437.jpg)