OK, so the Orpheum Fuzz schematic came up in a thread today...so I figured I'd do a quick vero layout for it and build one !
Dang, this thing is NASTY ! Pure 60's filth...a totally viable alternative to the Mosrite Fuzzrite and the Shin-Ei FY-2 fuzztones.
I built mine using 2N3903's for the transistors (hfe approx 120)..didn't try anything else. There may be better alternatives out there, but these are cheap, sound cool, and worked just fine ! Also, I swapped lug-3 and lug-1 on the "Tone" pot...just a matter of personal taste.
HERE'S (http://aronnelson.com/gallery/album109) the link to the folder in my gallery...it includes the layout, build pics, and sound clips !
NASTY STUFF INDEED !
Enjoy,
AC
Yep,
It's one of my favorites. I like the pots on top of your build DF. It's looks good in a Fuzzrite way! Thanks for the quick layout.
Here's the schemmo too:
(http://moccasinmusic.com/fuzz/orph_lite.gif)
Quote from: nightingale on December 11, 2006, 01:28:48 AM
Yep,
It's one of my favorites. I like the pots on top of your build DF. It's looks good in a Fuzzrite way! Thanks for the quick layout.
Here's the schemmo too:
(http://moccasinmusic.com/fuzz/orph_lite.gif)
I used 2 different shematics for the layout...they were actually "the same", but one had pot values labelled and one didnt. The "other one " (not yours) had the lugs on the tone pot labelled from top to bottom as 1-2-3 ! I did the layout like this, however, i prefer it as 3-2-1...it workds more like a traditional fuzz pot that way.
Does my build sound similar to your Orpheum ? I'm wondering mainly due to the transistor differences.
Also...got any more "obscure" fuzz schematics laying around ? :D
AC
man..... that's uhm... a lot of noise. Not really my style of fuzz, but kudo's on the nice pics and clips!
Also seen under the Clark name. These are very hit or miss as the circuit uses a pretty shaky biasing scheme.
That first transistor has a 10MEG resistor on the base? Wow, that is huge.
That first transistor has a 10MEG resistor on the base? Wow, that is *huge.
Might sound just as good with a 'big' resistor there.
I can't get the old style movie camera's to play for me...awwww...
But I get a pretty good vague idea what'd'd sound like from your descriptions and the schematic, 'Nice radical', short looking schemmo on it !
Might hafta whip one up and see ...
Quote from: petemoore on December 11, 2006, 10:44:00 AM
That first transistor has a 10MEG resistor on the base? Wow, that is *huge.
Might sound just as good with a 'big' resistor there.
I can't get the old style movie camera's to play for me...awwww...
But I get a pretty good vague idea what'd'd sound like from your descriptions and the schematic, 'Nice radical', short looking schemmo on it !
Might hafta whip one up and see ...
its ugly, pete :)
nasty, spitty, splatty sixties style fuzz....
The circuit seems to be quite impressive due to the 10 MOm resistor... maybe there is a sort of "enigma" there?
Quote from: Dragonfly on December 11, 2006, 01:44:05 AM
Does my build sound similar to your Orpheum ? I'm wondering mainly due to the transistor differences.
Also...got any more "obscure" fuzz schematics laying around ? :D
AC
Yeah,
Your clone sounds dead on man!
Have you heard the malboro wailer aka the ibanez standard fuzz or fuzz machine? It's like a superfuzz clone with a fet on the input.
It is by far my fav of the superfuzz family.
(http://moccasinmusic.com/fuzz/ace_top_pick.jpg)
here is a link to the schemmo from Dan N: http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/iswf.gif (http://users.rio.com/senorris/junk/iswf.gif)
[Dan N: let me know if you want me to pull the link]
fuzz on,
ry
My first stomp box was an Orpheum that I bought at a musician's tag sale for the princely sum of $2. It sounded a lot like the sound clips, but with way more treble. A friend of mine bought a germanium version that has a beautiful transistor overdrive tone. Think low gain fuzz face that isn't gated or muddy. We always smile when he plugs that one in.
well i'll be building one of these!
sounds great!!!!
Quote from: stomper on December 11, 2006, 04:47:25 PM
My first stomp box was an Orpheum that I bought at a musician's tag sale for the princely sum of $2. It sounded a lot like the sound clips, but with way more treble. A friend of mine bought a germanium version that has a beautiful transistor overdrive tone. Think low gain fuzz face that isn't gated or muddy. We always smile when he plugs that one in.
*ahem*
pictures, please.
If you get pics of the front / back of the circuit board, we can work up a schematic for it :D
AC
Quote from: doug deeper on December 11, 2006, 05:02:38 PM
well i'll be building one of these!
sounds great!!!!
Its pretty nasty...you'll enjoy it Doug !
EASY build, too.
AC
I have a Clark version, can get some pics, think it is germanium.
Quote from: Sir H C on December 11, 2006, 05:18:08 PM
I have a Clark version, can get some pics, think it is germanium.
That would be great. Give me something to do while on vacation :)
AC
CRAP! this looks almost exactly like a schem i drew up AGES ago, with basically NO electronics knowledge. I thought I was original.... :icon_mad: Well, I guess the people I sold it to didn't mind. :icon_lol: It is definitely not for the faint of heart, raunchy fuzz here. Makes me feel good that I designed a functioning circuit that closely matches a commercial pedal though!
When i drew it up, I was basically guessing. I was taking a VERY amateur electronics class, and barely knew what anything did, i just kind of guessed on circuit sections based on what i had seen in other fuzz schems, then randomly chose some values. didn't even know about biasing or anything :icon_redface:
Of course it sounded like garbage, nothing like this, and the couple of people who had me build one were noise rock guys, which i guess is a sign...
how does everyone build theirs so tidy all the time? I can't ever get mine to look like that. I guess trial and error with part placement, but I rarely am able to actually mount a board in a 1590B. it is usually "hanging" and just indiscriminantly stuck between an offboard component and the box wall :(
by the way, i till know diddly about biasing, which is why i currently don't design circuits. i will be attending electronics courses soon though...
FWIW,
There is a 3 knob version of the Orpheum fuzz: http://filters.muziq.be/files/pics/orpheum_fuzz_003.jpg (http://filters.muziq.be/files/pics/orpheum_fuzz_003.jpg)
If I had to guess I would say it is a 3 knob tonebender type, or maybe even a sam ash fuzz type?
Anyone seen/heard one of those?
curious,
ry
The sound clip in the gallery is cool!
Dragonfly did you breadboard it first or did you fire it directly on vero ?
I put the orpheum on my breadboard this afternoon. I used 2N12219A for the transistors (hFE150) and I'm having nasty squealings when the volume is up.
Though my voltages are close to the targets:
Q1:
C: 6.5
B: 0.5
E: 0
Q2
C: 0.9
B: 0.9
E: 0
Anyway I'm gonna put it on a vero and see if it heals my ear pain.
i just drew up the layout and built it.
the 2n3904's i used were hfe 116 and 120.
AC
The circuit is very beta/hfe dependent. Though not the worst biasing method, the base/collector resistor with no degen often has to be tweeked for the specific transistors to get the voltages right.
Quote from: warioblast on December 11, 2006, 09:36:07 PM
I used 2N12219A for the transistors (hFE150) and I'm having nasty squealings when the volume is up.
Though my voltages are close to the targets:
FWIW,
I also have an original until that squeals from time to time. It seems to get worse when the battery is low.
hope this helps,
ry
Warioblast...
Q1:
C: 6.5
B: 0.5
E: 0
Q2
C: 0.9 Collector
B: 0.9 Is the same as base on Q2...
E: 0
Not sure how this one is supposed to bias [see Dragonfly's posted voltages on page 1], but look for a short between Q2, B/C
Quote from: petemoore on December 12, 2006, 04:44:01 PM
Warioblast...
Q1:
C: 6.5
B: 0.5
E: 0
Q2
C: 0.9 Collector
B: 0.9 Is the same as base on Q2...
E: 0
Not sure how this one is supposed to bias [see Dragonfly's posted voltages on page 1], but look for a short between Q2, B/C
I gave up. :icon_cry:
My last measurements weren't that bad though
Q1:
C: 6.89
B: 0.53
E: 0
Q2
C: 0.89
B: 0.54
E: 0
The base-collector resistor on Q2 should be made larger. You can see that you are getting a .35 volt drop across it. If you found a transistor with a much lower Hfe/beta you would get a bigger drop, or just make that resistor bigger to give a bigger drop thereby raising the collector voltage. 4.7 meg would be a good starting point.
Just wanted to say thanks for the layout Dragonfly.
I bullt this a couple of nights ago and its wicked.
This is a fuzzfiend delight. It has some similarity to a Controfuzz at low to medium "tone" settings with a fundamental boost and top end fizz . The boost gets that misbiased gatey squash that a Greenringer has. This thing has many classic tones. Try rolling back the volume at mid to high "tone" for absolute balls.
I used 3904, 120 hfe. High "tone" setting gets very shrill.
Maybe a ge trans substitute would be good to mellow some of the top end?
Just thought I'd give my two cents, been hanging around reading and learning for a while. this place is a fuzz junkies dream. thanks guys
I just whipped this up on the breadboard and I'm getting the same ControFuzz results as Electrobuster, but I don't really like it... sounds very mediocre to my ears. Dragonfly's sound clips sound a lot wilder.... a lot more over the top and Scrambler like.
I tried various trannies with lowish hfe..... the best was a 3904 with 116 hfe in Q1 and another 3904 with a hfe of 195 in Q2 spot.
I didn't like the Mosrite Fuzzrite either, so maybe this type of circuit just dosen't work well with my rig. On to the Superfuzz!!!!!!!!!
Just a quick update: I started noodling around with it some more and found a very low hfe NPN germanium in the Q1 spot really takes out the fizz and actually gives a smoother fuzzy sustain that I like. Not the greatest fuzz pedal in my arsenal, but different and more to my liking than before.
Glad I finally found a use for the ultra low gain Russian NPN germs I bought off eBay last year!!
The Orpheum has that not quite right factor. Thats what I like about it. I think it would have a great ability to punch out single note melody lines.
If I reversed the battery polarity could I try some of my salvaged PNP ge trans? Yes, I build by numbers
Yes, since there are no electro caps in this circuit, you should be fine with just reversing the battery polarity.
I think using germs smooth is an improvement ...... please post back with your results and let us what you think.
Electrobuster - I went ahead and tried out some PNP germs in the hfe range that Dragonfly used for his 3904's and that definitely did the trick for me.... smooth but fuzzier than the those low hfe Russian NPN germs I tried earlier and not as harsh as the silicon trannies.
Thanks to all involved in sharing the info on this circuit, I ended up really enjoying this one!!!
Bluesdevil, Tried some ge trans last night and went back with the silicons! Sounds more together with them, if this nasty piece of work can be considered together sounding.
I think it needs some value adjustment to work with ge's and I don't have the knowledge to do that yet. They did tame the high end but the lows were just a mess, a bias issue I guess. With the silicons I can just roll back the guitar tone if need be.
Really dig the dual sound of this circuit, with the the mushy lows and blistering highs it can be very powerfull.
Always worth a shot trying different combinations and letting your ears be the judge. I might have just got lucky with the right germs because I didn't have to rebias anything.
You mentioned you used the same hfe for the germs that Dragonfly suggested for silicons, maybe thats it?
The ones I tried were either too low at 80hfe or too high at around 200hfe(leaky?).
Tried combinations and pulled some from my FF and TB ranging from 80 to140 but it was just too cheesey.
I actually spent the whole night trying different gains of germs after that post..... the best I came up with out of the batch of Japanese 2sb176 trannies I had were actually in the 160 - 175 hfe ballpark. This is with leakage accounted for as well.
In comparison the lower hfe ones that I originally raved about were a bit too weak. The slightly higher gain got me the smooth saturated fuzz with lots of sustain that I really like.... it just comes down to personal taste, no absolute wrong or right. Also with the 3904's I tried I got oscillation with volume and tone maxed and the germs didn't do this.
I probably should've just waited after going through all those trannies before posting anything, but it's just fun to post progress while someone else is also experimenting with the same build .
I also noticed the oscilation disapeared with the germs. Didnt have much time last night and had to play low volume.
I will definately give it another go over the weekend. I was using some Toshiba 2sb56. Sure is fun.
Quote from: electrobuster on December 19, 2006, 12:49:32 AM
I also noticed the oscilation disapeared with the germs. Didnt have much time last night and had to play low volume.
I will definately give it another go over the weekend. I was using some Toshiba 2sb56. Sure is fun.
This makes sense - Ge transistors are usually lower gain than Si transistors are.
i played the 3 knob version of this years ago (at black market music in hollywood)
from what i recall it was really saturated buzzy.
almost in superfuzz territory.
ummmmm, not to be Too controversial here, but......
this schematic is from my OLD book on amp service. "the field guide to amplification" is on the (ripped up) cover.
The biasing is a tad bit different though. Let me flip through the book here.......
all caps (except the tone "stack") are .05uf
-10 meg is really 2.2Meg
-22K is really 100K
-47K is really 100K
-Ommit the 100k resistor going across the 22K and 47K
-1meg is really 2.2Meg
That's what the book calls for anyway. And i have built it (the book version) and to my ears is a bit more nastier than the orpheum fuzz. Has a different tonality though. It's more along the lines of a Maestro fuzz-Tone than the super-fuzz, companion FY-2, etc.
There seem to be different versions. Ryan posted some cool pics in this thread:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=46251.0
Analogguru has a schematic here for a Ge version:
http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/
The values Yun posts must come from a third version.
Funny, when we worked on Ryan's pedal, I unknowingly had Analogguru's schematic in my files. In retrospect, I would have just adjusted his schematic to reflect the changed values of the new version.
Maybe you look for comparision purposes at the Fuzz part schematic of the "Acoustic 360" and the "Benson 330H" posted (new) on my site.
Acoustic 360 uses a silicon for the first stage and a Germanium for the second stage.
For the 2 N 1306 you can use an AC127 or similar.
In principle the Orpheum is a copy of the early Mosrite Fuzzrite - you can find inside pictures and a schematic here:
http://eu11.stripper.jp/pulcino/blog/archives/cat_mosrite_fuzzrite.html (http://eu11.stripper.jp/pulcino/blog/archives/cat_mosrite_fuzzrite.html)
also the early Guild Axis-Fuzz used the same circuit, inside-picture can be found here:
http://www.electroharmonix.ronsound.com/gallery/foxey/foxey_lady.jpg (http://www.electroharmonix.ronsound.com/gallery/foxey/foxey_lady.jpg)
they only changed the input resistor from 10 M to 2x 10 M in paralell = 5 M.
All silicon version used the 100k (in series with 47k) in the collector of the second stage.
when i find some time i will write an article of this stuff with nice pictures.
The Orpheum Fuzz was also sold as the E.U. Wurlitzer "Fuzzer Buzzer":
(http://analogguru.an.funpic.de/pictures/EUWurlitzer_FuzzerBuzzer.jpg)
analogguru
Very interesting! Thanks!
Cool,
Let me know if you need any pics of the one seen in the other thread for your article.
I am now the owner of that one.
regards,
ry
here's my take on this fuzz, i mostly stayed true to the amplifier handbook that i said about in my earlier post....
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/1048768/10737577/222509376.jpg)
I just built it like that and it sounds AMAZING! Much more thicker, and nastier tone. Think of it as a maestro fuzz-tone with a thicker and meaner attitude. The tone control sounds very (shockingly) much like the BMP's tone stack....
ENJOY!!!!!
Can you make some samples?
I've done a layout of your mod...http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orpheumfuzzmodificacr5.gif
There's a lot of stuff in the layouts gallery...
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DRAGONFLY-LAYOUTS_0/album18/album144/album109/orphclone2.mp3.html
Dan
Edit: hum but not necessary with the mod...
I've built the orpheum fuzz, it's nice, but for me it is uncontrollable ( I would have built the mostrite, but I've made this and I wanna mod it :icon_wink:)
So" the Yun mod" seems cool and I was asking a sample about it....
Quote from: lucaneo on June 10, 2008, 12:16:36 PM
I've built the orpheum fuzz, it's nice, but for me it is uncontrollable...
In what way? Can you describe the symptoms?
It's not easy...By the way there is lot of noise, too trebles tone and I use it only with ds-2 or ts 808...Only orpheum is not a good sound for me. I've listened the Dragonfly germanium mosrite and it seems really better. Anyway the Yun mod seems good, I believe I'll try it!
All of that style of fuzz are very trebly. You can try to fatten it up by using a larger output cap. The Germanium Mosrite will not be much less trebly. If you want fat fuzz you should build a Fuzz Face.
Swapping the .0022uf cap for a higher value makes a difference aswell. Try a .01uf to start with.
EDIT: On the original schematic that is.
ok thx!