Hi,
Ive just set out on a quest to construct all of the Lovetone/Loveclones that are floating about. Ive got the original McMeat layout and ive etched the board. However I was wondering if anyone had done a layout with the switches mounted on the board with all of the freqency range caps in place? It just seems to be a neater way of doing it.
If no one has i think i may draw one out.
As a side issue can anyone post some gut shots of a genuine Meatball to give me a starting point.
Thanks very much in advance
Shed_fx
http://www.pisotones.com/Meatball/psst/meatball-psst.html
just follow this and you will be alright.. if you already have the board etched id say it would be easier to do it on that :)
cheers
ulysses
Thanks for the link ulysses. Ive decided to remake the board just to make the wiring neater and more managable. Its a bit bodged but should work nicely. The layout for the jumpers and labelling of the controls is shown below:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout-jumpers.jpg)
The main circuit is based on the original layout by Joep but ive made a few tweeks which should be obvious enough. The controls for the rotary switches will be reversed in position ie on oposite sides to the original unit. This was to reduce the length and complexity of the links from the original layout. I wanted a neater board and not so worried about reproducing the meatball perfectly. Ive then neatened up the layout as much as possible but only spent a couple of hours on it. I will make this board up and then let you all know how it goes. The layout below should be 184mm x 131mm.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout.jpg)
Hope this is of use to anyone who is interested in making a meatball clone. I may revise the layout and try to get the controls in the right places if i have time.
Right just re-giggled the board. Now everything is in its right place. There are quite a few jumpers and flying leads but i just feel it would be better to have all of the components including the switches mounted onto the board. So here is the final version. Thanks to Joep and the guys for creating the original project!
Jumper Diagram:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayoutVer2-Jumpers.jpg)
Layout:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayoutVer2.jpg)
Full details of all of the wiring can be found at: http://www.pisotones.com/Meatball/psst/meatball-psst.html
So if you decide to use this layout check it first but i think it is fine and have fun.
Cheers
Man thats awesome. these leads are driving me nuts. ;D
amazing this is just what i wanted i may try this one soon
thank you so much
Hi,
Thanks for the interest in this thing, I must admit i think this makes it a hell of a lot easier to build. I have built it since and it works! There are a couple of changes and corrections that I need to implement on the layout but the board shown below is the one I built. However the switches and the pots are all reversed. i.e. blend is at the on the left as you look at the board. I did however do another layout that is correct. What happened was I arranged it all and got confused with having to invert the board for transfer so a rearranged it! Well it was my first attempt at layouts!
As there is interest I will do these last mods and post a final,final version in the next week or so. As a quick get out. It is probably best once Ive posted it to check it through for yourselves with the pisotones stuff before you build it.
One other thing remember that having the pots on board means you are restricted with the enclosure you can fit it in. I will post a photo of my finished meatball tonight, I;ve only just finished it!
Hi Shed,
I hope no one wants to kill me for bumping this thread but, did you get to draw that final layout? :)
I wrote a sort of Lovetone page and would like to include it. :)
Hi there,
I have built my Meatball on a different layout to this which resulted in all of the controls being in the opposite place! (The completed thing is on the Pictures thread). This layout should be the correct way round and has simply used the Pisotones layout with on board jumpers or traces.
Another forumite "Mamora" contacted me about the final layout earlier in the week. I sent him these layouts I have asked him to check it against Pisotone's as it is not confirmed and may well be mistakes. All of the work was done in Paint! But it worked quite well so can probably be modified/corrected easily using that!
Anyway the Layouts:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout-jumpers-1.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout-1.jpg)
Have fun the plan was to make the build a bit neater and easier on the brain for assembly.
All the best.
Shed
Quote from: Shed_FX on December 18, 2007, 01:41:24 PM
I have built my Meatball on a different layout to this which resulted in all of the controls being in the opposite place! (The completed thing is on the Pictures thread). This layout should be the correct way round and has simply used the Pisotones layout with on board jumpers or traces.
Another forumite "Mamora" contacted me about the final layout earlier in the week. I sent him these layouts I have asked him to check it against Pisotone's as it is not confirmed and may well be mistakes. All of the work was done in Paint! But it worked quite well so can probably be modified/corrected easily using that!
Anyway the Layouts:
Hi there,
I want to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind the stupid doubts I have. :-[
- This layout is theorically a virtual copy of Lovetone's? I mean, the schematic is the same, and all knobs and switches are placed and work (no reverse or flipped knobs) as in the original effect?
- I've read that, in some circuits (= high frequency or resonant circuits, for example) trace design is vital to avoid problems. Are you aware if that aplies here too?
- Also, which of the two would you use? They are 1:1 scale, aren't they?
By the way, I've updated the wiki with the layouts. I've given you the credit you deserve, but if you want me to remove it just let me know. ;) Just in case you didn't know about that wiki, here it is. (http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lovetone_effects) Just go to "Ready to build effects" -> "Meatball files" and there it is.
Thanks! ;)
PS. I guess I'll be making my Meatball with this layout. ;D
This is really great. That layout should be perfected. Great work mr. Shed!
Wasn't the positones wiring upside down or something like that?
I built mine on joelap's layout, with the usual "wires mess" and it works nicely... I think the layout is not source of problems. great work mr. Shed!
Hi! built a meatball the other day with the on-board switches, although I haven't gotten it to work properly yet. First thing that comes to mind is that as a temporary solution I used LED/LDR with heatshrink instead of the vtl. Ok, so for the problems.
It does modulate the sound, and the controls seem to work. However it is very hard to get it to trigger, but with a boost in front of it it triggered all the time. The green light lights up as I play, on some settings it does the reverse but I'm not shure if it's supposed to do that.
The sound is also fuzzy.
When building I checked every component against the schematic, and they all seemed right except for the Sens switch wich didn't really seem to correspond to the schematic or the way pisotones suggested to wire it. The input output jack wiring according to the schematic also struck me as odd, can anyone help me out with those uncertanties?
When I built mine I was in the same situation, the envelope detector was working but there was no filtering...
The most important thing to do is to check the pots and set them to a position that "makes sense"
attak and decay are the most tricky.
try this way(values are intended from 0 to 10): drive up (au), attak 0, decay >6, colour >7, intens 7, blend 10, lowpass, range on the low-side, then move sens to find the right spot.
have fun
Any idea of what could be causing all the fuzzy sound?
And another thing, at all settings of the blend knob I still get clean guitar sounds through, and I assume it's not supposed to do this?
Hi aidlook
I have had a look at the layout and you are correct that the Sens control is wrong I have corrected the layout below. You should be able to modify the control by cutting one trace and drilling a new hole in the board. I am sorry for that mistake but it was for this reason that I said for people to check it through first and post queries before building the board. It sounds like that sorting this control will sort out the triggering and may sort out the fuzz. Try correcting the wiring as below first and then post the results.
Well done on getting it working this far it sounds like it is almost done!
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout2.jpg)
MacroMike, I presume you built yours using the original Pisotones layout?
Quote from: Shed_FX on January 16, 2008, 02:31:00 PM
MacroMike, I presume you built yours using the original Pisotones layout?
Well, I didn't follow the Pisotones tutorial, as I remember someone saying there was a mistake somewhere. I wired mine following Joep's schematic and layout (Thanks again Joep).
By the way, I really like your on-board switches layout, next time I make one (if ever) I will use it instead of spending ages in wiring!!
Wait until it is debugged first!
All the best.
Tom
Got it working now!!! and considering I started building stompboxes last week, I'm pretty damn proud ;D
After fixing the sense pot it was working better, but still very fuzzy and hard to trigger.
I had a look at the board I used wich is the one in reply#3 and also one of the boards on the wiki. The blend pot is not connected right on this board, it has been fixed in the later ones, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
Thanks for the help, I'm off to play some funky stuff...
Wow Aidlook, that is really great! Well done! Can you mark the changes you made on the modified layout with the corrected Sens control and then I can update and post a confirmed layout.
Again well done I am glad that it worked out. It really needed to be built in order to find all of the little bugs.
Sounds like you've made an amazing start to building pedals!
All the best
Tom
The last one you posted seems to be exactly the way I wired the sense and blend, although I put a 4k7 resistor before the middle lug of the pot, since it says to do so in the schematic.
Ok after fiddling around a bit with all the controls it seems I might have some problem with the switches.
On the sweep switch the up/down is on position 2&3 I can live with this but it's a bit annoying.
The range switch seems to be working properly.
The bandwidth switch seems to work in position 2&3, not much of a difference though, in position 1&4 I get no sweep only wierd filtered sound.
The mode switch is hard to tell if there's much of a difference, but the problem is I get sweep in all positions and I presume there's not supposed to be any sweeping in the off position.
Right I have looked through the wiring of the two switches that you have said that you have problems with and the wiring looks all correct. Have you checked that all of the jumpers are in the correct position and that the flying leads are all connected to where they should be. If this is all correct take a look at the soldered side of the board and check that there are no un-wanted connections from solder slippages by running a scalpel or sharp knife in between the traces.
The only other thing I can see that was changed is that the position of R2 from the pisotones schematic was moved slightly so to make way for the jumper. That resistor can be put in up on one end to get the connectors nice and close together.
If you have used alpha rotary switches there is a tab washer in the top of the switch which means that you can adjust the end stop of the switch to your exact requirements so that it only moves 1,2, or three positions. Playing about with this should sort out the Sweep switch positions.
Let me know how you get on.
seems to be working now...
Great welldone! It would be great to see some photos of it posted on this or the Pictures thread. Also If you haven't started adding decoration to the box the font for the Lovetone Pedals is called Daytona and if you want any detailed pictures of the Meatball that I have collected. Please let me know.
All the best
Tom
So we can consider this PCB layout verified? I ask because there's some interest in getting PCBs made (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64484.0) ;D
Hi Andrew,
I would like aidlook to post or PM me with any last changes or comments to the original layout. I will then implement those changes and modify the layout slightly to improve the separation of some of the traces and then post a final layout for people to play about with. Keep watching the forum as I hope we can get a final version issued this week or next.
All the best
Tom
Awesome, thanks Tom.
Ok as I said, the last version Shed FX posted seems to be exactly how I ended up wiring the pots, and my switches seem to be working now, but I can't say I'm a 100% since I've never really been shure what every switch is supposed to do exactly, and I've never had my hands on an original. However the sounds I'm getting seems to be a pretty close match to those on the lovetone website so there can't really be any major flaws. As I was building I checked every component with the layout in the project file as well as the schematic and the pisotones website. Bear in mind though that I'm really a beginner and I think if you're getting some of these made you should really build a prototype yourself and make shure. Separation on some of the thinner traces would be great as well as making them a bit wider perhaps, they had some minor issues after the etching but it was quite easily fixed, again I etched my first pcb about a week prior to this one so someone with more experience could probably do a great job with these. Another issue I had was that once I had scaled the print so that the switches (alpha brand rotary) could all mount to the pcb the holes for the IC's where still out of scale, so those could do some re-working.
I will post pictures as soon as I've made the enclosure and I'll then get some sound samples done as well.
Here are some sound samples while I'm building the enclosure
http://download.yousendit.com/1E307EB87ED59D4B (http://download.yousendit.com/1E307EB87ED59D4B)
Im starting to wire up my mcmeat and was looking at your circuit for reference. It looks like you have the sens pot attach to the "send' point on the mcmeat layout. Shouldnt that point be used for the effect loop? Or perhaps I should attach both the sens pot and the send of the effect loop to this point?
Hi been reading thru the lovetone threads here a while now, so which board is "good to go" so to speak to use for the Meatball what is the size in "inches"? I tried the one in this thread (the wiki site seems down now) and made it 184mm which equals to 7 inches that is way too big correct?
TKs
Jeff
Hi,
Sorry I haven't had time to get this sorted. I need to make some mods to the layout as per aidlook's comments. I have just measured the board I built it on and it measures:
170mm x 100mm. This was scaled so that the parts were a reasonable fit. I believe that the with standard alpha switches it is a bit of a squeeze and I bent the legs in slightly to get them to fit.
I need to look at the layout that was last posted and the comments made and then I can post a final one. I built mine as the first prototype and had the switch and pot positions the wrong way round. Bear with me and I will try and get it sorted. Be warned that the "final" layout that I post may not be 100% and you may need to tweak things here and there. It does however make the wiring a hell of a lot easier.
I believe that someone was talking about doing a layout based upon that of the Meatball, like the one which was drawing for the string ringer.
Hopefully should get something sorted tonight.
Shed
Right just gone through it checked the connections out, modifed the layout to make the traces thicker and easier to etch. Scale the drawing up by printing it out a few timesand placing components in the correct positions. The layout for the core of the effect is as before and as per pisotones layout. The jumpers are shown all in the last diagram which was last posted. I haven't got time to do a project file for this. If someone wants to please feel free. I would recommend that you thoroughly read all of the posts on this thread before etching anything!
I should be able to help with any debugging that is needed. But won't always be able to post up stuff as quickly as tonight!
Have fun
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout-FinalLayout.jpg)
PS any mods you may need to make to the layout can be done in Paint! Thats what it was drawn in because I am a hack!
All the best
Shed
anybody ever build the final layout?
Looking for feedback before I make the PCB or attempt it.
Is there a version of this layout with the parts laid out as well?
I can see that it's like Joep's layout on it's side but I can't find any working links to the 1.1 version of that pdf (I only have the 1.0 version).
Hope someone can help.
Quote from: ringworm on March 01, 2009, 05:49:03 AM
Is there a version of this layout with the parts laid out as well?
I can see that it's like Joep's layout on it's side but I can't find any working links to the 1.1 version of that pdf (I only have the 1.0 version).
Hope someone can help.
I'd like to know as well
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnotinteractive.com%2Fstuff%2Fguitar%2Ffx%2Fmc-meat.pdf&ei=IFjrSevcII3IM87cwdAF&usg=AFQjCNGgKVIFRov5rdBzlgrPirSTHaxocQ&sig2=kMnx-BvB1ru1uoEjvNRZCw
As far as I can tell only the position of one diode and one resistor have changed ever so slightly.
Thread restart. Is this layout verified? i did the original Joep layout and the wiring is scary. No clue yet if the build will work out. It would be amazing for future McMeat builders to know whether the layout in this thread is confirmed.
- Strategy
Im going to try this one out. The McMeat is a wire nightmare. I just wonder what size enclosure we'll need.
Quote from: chicago_mike on October 26, 2009, 03:24:48 AM
Im going to try this one out. The McMeat is a wire nightmare. I just wonder what size enclosure we'll need.
thanks chicago_mike look forward to seeing the results if you can verify that it works.
If you want to use an enclosure that "echoes" the original Lovetone enclosures check out these Hammond sloping consoles:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwg16.htm#10degree
I'm using one for my Great Cheddar (Big Cheese) (which I can't photograph and post yet as it's at the powder coat shop this week being painted.) These don't "flip" like the original Lovetone enclosures, but they are robust, not too expensive (mine was $19 from Mouser) and come in a variety of sizes.
- Strategy
cool. Forgot about those. Ive been thinking of getting a powder coat machine from harbor freight.... :)
Okay I dont know what size this layout is supposed to be. Everytime I get it right for the IC'c it looks way too small for the rotary switches.
Could someone let me know what size in MM is the board without any border? THanks! :)
Review the posts on page 2, there are some measurements proposed, the layout author claims that the rotary switch configurations are slightly small for their choice of hardware, so they "had to bend the pins" to get the rotary switch in. You could probably modify the layout in photoshop to more easily accommodate your rotary switches (?)
- Strategy
Man...I want the work done for ME! ME ME ME! :D ;D
I've knocked up a version of this in Eagle, so that should keep the ic's and switches at the right size, also I have a layout that should make things easy to build. If anyone can spot errors (glaring or otherwise) please say. As you can tell, I only have the 'light' version of eagle so could not fit everything in the layout size available but you can deduce fairly easily what goes where on the right hand side. I'll draw up a version with jumpers inked in and post that if anyone has trouble following it, also i havn't got round to filling in the values, follow the mcmeat pdf for that info.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/meatlayout.png)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/meatpcb.jpg)
I have the full blown eagle. If you want to, send me what your working on and Ill check it out. I also have B2 spice to check stuff out.
PM for my email addy. Oh, make your traces 24mil , its easier to transfer to pcb with home made methods. I found out the hard way. :icon_redface:
bump
chicago mike and ringwork: any update on a test worthy layout?
- strategy
Almost done, been super busy. :-\
If you get something that needs beta testing let me know and I'll try to etch a board and test it as well. I still cannot get my 'standard' mcmeat working, so looking forward to helping develop any alternative! PM me if you get something that needs 'beta'-ing.
- Strategy
Little bump :icon_biggrin: , I'm etching in the next two days, would be really nice to get this in with the rest of the batch, if there's been any progress. Thanks for your work!
I've updated the two files I had previously posted. I've also made a file of the off board wires. Mike is working on an Eagle project of a much more thorough version of this from the same .brd file.
The part numbers on mine correspond to the original mcmeat pdf which still works afaik, i only rejigged the layout for sizing problems with the ics and switches.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/pcbcopy.jpg)
I might just give this a try on the testing tip...!
Thanks!!!
- STrategy
Hello,
Just checked in and saw this had come up again. I left the final write up as most people seemed content with doing the wiring. The layout that I did works as I have the working unit. The only problem is the rotary switches are reversed in position on the front panel of the pedal if that makes sense.
The final layout was this one
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/meatballlayout-1.jpg)
The front of the pedal looks like this (asthetically finishing pedals was never my strong suit!)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/DSC008252.jpg)
The layout above I see is based on mine soo the rotary switches will also be in the wrong place.
The best solution for this project may be using the original layout if someone can find a good picture of the original board.
I need to get a load of bits sorted for the Wobulator project (which works but ticks, see the other thread) and I completed the layout for the doppelganger but never got round populating the board. Finally the flange with no name I have a layout and parts list but not a shematic for where the parts go. Just one thing or another, buying a house and building a car has kinda taken up all of my time.
Anyway have fun with the project.
Tom
by 'reversed in panel position' I assume you mean that the switches are in different locations than on the original meatball? I think that is only important if you are trying to recreate the front panel - as long as it doesn't affect functionality it's not a huge deal probably. Please verify?
I resurrected this thread hoping that a new Layout would fill some of the gaps in what's currently there- the Joep layout is rock solid but its followed by an array of conflicting/contradictory/confusing info and threads regarding the wiring. Hopefully what you started here and the new layout work can evolve into a new project file.
- Strategy
So I get to start over after a crash. No worries, we will prevail! :D
What size box is that? THe graphics dont look too bad. :)
Yes it is just that the switches are in the wrong places as far as the original unit goes. If you compare the front panel of mine with the original unit you will see what I mean.
I used the pisotones website to do all of the links for the switches and pots and thinks seemed ok. I did it a long time ago now but it required very little debugging. The box is a pressed aluminium box from Maplin here in the UK. It was the only thing I could find which would accomodate the board of approximately original size. It is just cuboid and not sloping.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/lovetone_meatball_03.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/lovetone_meatball_04.jpg)
Not sure if it's bad form to post these, they're not mine, I found them through Google pretty quick and hadn't seen them before but these are the best gutshots I've been able to find. If there are any objections I can take them down but they are definitely worth a look as afar as this thread is goes.
Check out the LDRs and LEDs! Not a Vactrol in sight!
No Vactrols is good news, cheap and cheerfull. Thanks for the gut shots, now I understand that this is the only way to go, all those, what, 56 switch leads and 18 pot leads making noise, no thanks. Etched today but didn't have a big enough piece of board for this :icon_sad:
Ok, I've had a go at this from the pictures and have gone over it against the schematic in the v1.1 mcmeat.pdf and I think it might be good.
Not sure when I'll have a chance to build and test this myself but feel free to have a go yrself. The partlist corresponds to the mcmeat.pdf so you will need that, it can be found in this thread somewhere. I've designed it with vactrols but it would be easy to do the led/ldr thing also. the jumpers (in yellow) go off the layout (i did all my work in a trial version of Eagle, cutting and pasting in P'shop) but it will be easy to see where they go on the pcb. The files are correct size at 300.025dpi (don't ask about the .025 something about Eagle exporting at that size).
if anyone sees any glaring errors, please tell and i'll correct. I havn't got round to figuring out the supply and in/out yet but will post that as soon as I do.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albondigas_lay.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albongigas_pcb.jpg)
Good work!
I'm also tight for time, finishing builds already started will take the next couple of weeks, but the layout looks good, if I manage to get a big enough piece of board I'll try to build it within the next month. Thanks for making the effort.
Man I wish I had more time. I was going to try to get this in a smaller enclosure as well as a ground plane. The work you guys are doing is really really good. :)
The pcb I posted should refresh soon through photobucket. A small fix to correct the 3 pole pins on the switches.
I've got the jack socket and switch wiring mapped as per the original. someone will need to take a look as there are a couple of points I'm not sure about. I'll post it when I get a tidy drawing done.
In another Meatball thread here someone has said that the mcmeat switch wiring for 'Range' is wrong but as far as I can tell from the gutshots and the position of that switch's 'orienting pin' the mcmeat schematic is fine. Not sure what to make of that :-\
I hope to etch this in the coming weeks and give it a test here!
- Strategy
Here's what Ive figured out for the wiring for the switch and jacks. Anyone see if there are any faults?
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albongigas_wiring.jpg)
Quick Question...
At 3...025 dpi or whatever, its super small in photoshop. Its like 1" b 2 ". Whats the correct board size? :)
You're right, photobucket or the forum must resize images to view.
Board should be 181.51mm x 92.96mm @ 300.025 dpi but i'll email you the file.
michael_stram@hotmail.com ty :D
I can print this out on transparency and do an etch next week. Im doing UV light method and it wors as long as you have good coverage. :)
reminds me to check my etches..3 RC boosters and 2 Neutrons.
Looking forward to hearing how it goes, I'm not gonna get a chance to have a go at this until February.
Also looking forward to seeing how this one goes. Looks much easier than the McMeat.
Well I printed out the transfer. Did 2 as I have a box of OHT sheets.
Im telling you guys now, if you still do the photo glossy paper method..stop it now! Do the UV method. :D
I use 3 GE Blacklight bulbs (party type) THe ones you get at menards the twisty looking suckers. 4 or 5 bucks a pop. You can do this in your bed room. PLace the sheet over a positive sensitized board and place a clean plexiglass sheet over that. with weight to keep anything from moving. You can use desktop tube style blacklights as well. just make sure you get good even coverage and its pretty well lit.
run the bulbs for like 8 to 10 minutes, maybe even less..depending on board size. The Meatball fullsize I would to maybe 8 to 10. have the bulbs around 3 to 4" above the transfer.
To remove the resist, You CAN make a mixture of caustic soda, but its a temperamental mix, I use the GC mixture. Infact my sensitized boards are GC as well. 9 to 1 mixture...and then ferric chloride or sodium persulphate.
And the fact that I can reuse the overhead sheet as many times as I want, Its pretty easy to do runs of certain boards if need be.
I've just been pm'd by jota.ventura with a fix for the layout and pcb. There was a missing jumper that was connected to the trace that runs from pin 11 of the TL074 right beside R1. It should be easily remedied if you've already printed a board with some careful drilling and soldering, it's a jumper that needs to connect that trace to ground (i had the empty ground pad on the board but hadn't connected it to anything). I've updated the pcb and the layout (it doesn't affect wiring) so refresh your browser when you go to page 4 of this thread and you should see the fixes.
Sorry again for those that have printed a board.
Quote from: ringworm on December 23, 2009, 07:48:48 AM
go to page 4 of this thread and you should see the fixes.
Edit to say "page 3". Fixed files are up now.
Hi everyone, I was looking for the PCB of this effect with pots and switches included and finally found this post. Congrats for all the great work. Now there are a couple of things i'd like to say that I think will help some of you. Before I etched the board i found that the size of the circles in which components are soldered are too small, so I took rigworm's layout and redraw it. I've included the last correction, the jumper form pin 11 of tl074 to ground. Here it is:
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae352/ChanchoPanchoChile/MeatballLayoutPIG2009.jpg)
Now there are three things to correct in the image of rigworm's reply #59 i circled them in red:
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae352/ChanchoPanchoChile/albondigas_lay_circled.jpg)
First, the jumper marked as E$29 has to be raplaced by R16, 1k5. Then there's the other thing: the R of the LED1 (on/off led) is marked as R16. It has to be corrected I suggest R22, 2k2.
Finally the numeration of R14 & R15 are inverted. According to Joep's McMeat's layout R15 is the one that goes to ground and R14 to 9v.
I have not finished the board so when I do, I'll comment more.
One comment about the layout I posted: The size is not ready to print. It has to re-scale to 157%. FYI: I do it inserting the image in word and re-scaling there.
Hope this helps you.
You're right, many thanks for that. I'll amend the layout and update it.
Let me know if anything else shows up.
One more thing: there's a short between lugs 1 & 3 of the decay pot. You need to eliminate the conection between the two pads below (R16 & jumper E$24).
The decay pot connects through lug 1 to R8 and then to the attack pot. Lug 3 goes to the pedal 1 socket, they're not connected to R16 or the E$24 jumper so I can't see how it is shorted. The intens and colour pots are connected through lugs 1 and 3 but that is as per the schematic and from the traces on the original pcb as far as I can tell. Which two pads are you referring to?
Sorry, the decay pot is ok, my mistake. The pot shorted is the colour. I uploaded your layout pointing out the loop. The blue line shows where to cut.
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae352/ChanchoPanchoChile/albongigas_pcb_fallas.jpg)
Good to see you hammering out the details. Thanks for all the hard work. I've got parts on order. Looking forward to building this.
Wheres the best place to get the plastic rotaries. My local shop doesnt carry enough variety to do a true meatball.
You're correct on the trace between the the colour and intens pots, cheers for the pointers with this. That was a hard spot to trace as the photo of the pcb is a bit vague in that area. I'll update my pics again.
Smallbear carry the switches ok http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=46 (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=46)
I get them in the UK from Bardwell cheap enough.
I just read this thread,and the Spanish psssi one too,
and wow after listening to the clips from the Spanish page I want to build as well.
Have the layouts been corrected?
or is the latest one that was posted corrected?
I think I will etch this in the next couple of weeks,good work to BTW.
I cant believe this was someones first build in the begining of the thread.
My layout and pcb on page 3 have been updated and corrected. The wiring diagram on page 4 has not been tested yet but should be good as it's straight from a gutshot.
No builds have been verified as yet.
Resize the board to 181.51mm x 92.96mm @ 300.025 dpi
I built it with my layout, that's basicaly rigworm's layout with thicker tracks and pads. One thing I forgot to tell in previous posts is that i added two extra set of pads to add a couple of C's in the switch 3 so that no switch posistion is wasted.
Well, it's been like a week since I populated the board and corrected some things that I posted in earlier replies, but still doesn't work. The signal doesn't trigger the effect. It filters but the green led (LED3) is always on, even with no input signal. The pots are working (I measured voltages) but I'm not getting any filter change. The optos are ok 'cause i measured it's resistance. I'm still debbuging but if I find something else i'll let you know. Have anyone else had the same problem? Did you solve it?
Sorry to hear this isn't working. I've been looking over the schematic and see I also have lug 3 of the intens pot connected to lug 1 of the colour pot. Again I think the pcb photo is unclear here while the schemtaic shows no connection between the two as far as I can tell. Maybe the traces should look like this instead?
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/Picture2.png)
Also could the positions of R6 and D3 be switched? Or does it not matter if they are connected in parallel?
I am gonna wait until you guys get this verified as I am a "paint by numbers" builder.
But man I LOVE the way that pedal sounds,I definetly want to build one.
Quote from: ringworm on January 02, 2010, 12:30:15 PM
Also could the positions of R6 and D3 be switched? Or does it not matter if they are connected in parallel?
I think there aren't switched. They're soldered in parallel in the same pads. I think they forgot to make one extra set of pads in the original layout.
You're right about the colour and intensity pot's I will correct that in my board.
Finally it's working!!! :icon_biggrin: I have to check some details and then I'll post my final version of the layout.
Congratulations, good work.
woohoooo!!!! well done! :)
Quote from: ChanchoPancho on January 03, 2010, 04:26:57 PM
Finally it's working!!! :icon_biggrin:
Awesome!
I've tweaked and updated my own pcb on page 3 so they'll both be good to go. I'm gonna give this a go in February once I get my thesis out of the way in Jan.
if you come up with any more tweaks let us know.
I'd like to figure out what the resistance of the original LDRs was or if they were matched. Not sure what the sound difference will be between building it with Vactrols or doing the LED/LDR thing. Anyway...
Hi.
I decided to take the easy way and draw the pcb directly from the photo:
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff334/jotaventura/lovetone_meatball_03_plano.jpg)
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff334/jotaventura/lovetone_meatball_03_planopistasjum.jpg)
I distorted the image to make it rectangular, then I draw the traces and the jumpers, looking at the schematic and the other photo.
It only needs to be rescaled and place the components and cables in their places.
You'll also need to flip the image horizontally if your doing a press'n'peel.
I also recommend that you add extra pads below the 1458 because R6 and D3 are soldered together in the original layout.
OK it's time for me to ask a possibly stupid question here. It's been bothering me that especially the lower 2 rotary switches have very few poles used, if I am not going to be a purist about this ( and I'm not, at least for the one I build for myself ) wouldn't it make sense to change them to toggles and jiggle the traces a bit to make the whole thing a bit smaller. Don't get me wrong, it's great to have an almost "original" and verified PCB layout, I'm sure I'll use it in the future too, there's just something about all those unused poles ..... :icon_rolleyes:
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I should be content to add a few caps to switch three and shut up :icon_mrgreen:
Thanks for all the hard work boys.
I thought of that but I realized it is the best to use the same kind of switches because later it'll be simpler to fit into an enclosure panel. The first option i though is to use typical toggle switches but i found 2 problems: The ones available in my local electronic stores have connectors to solder wires, not to solder in a PCB. The other problem was that a toggle switch has a different height that rotary switches so the enclosure fit will be very dificult. I'm already having trouble getting potentionmeters that fit the switches height and that can be soldered in a PCB.
I'm not a purist, in fact I don't care if the layout or components positions are the same as the original, I was just looking for a layout that includes both switches and pots so I can cut off the wiring and I found it. Now if you don't care soldering a couple of extra wires you can replace some rotary switches for toggle ones but I don't think it'll get smaller if you do that.
If it helps you i found a way to use a DPDT instead of a rotary switch in the sweep (up/down) switch.
I can see the logic, and the price of the rotaries doesn't justify all the work to move the traces. I guess I'll have to just accept that it's a big sprawling effect. It could be half the size, but perhaps it's just not a good idea to cram it all together too tight, maybe it avoids bleed through, ticking, noise, whatever.
I think I have the switching down, but would be interested to see what you came up with.
ringworm: you're right, I thought it was obvious, but maybe not so.
ChanchoPancho: good point, I draw it just after I uploaded the image.
Skruffyhound: the pcb can be drastically reduced if you want, there are not so many components in it and yes, you can use other kind of switching. But even if you ommit the send/return and pedal jacks, still there are 6 potentiometers to fit in. So why worry about space? I just bought a big box.
I have some news about my build. In an earlier post i said that I was checking some details. The thing was that the effect seemed to be a little high in every frequency given by the range switch. With the Intensity pot in the minimum, the effect still sounded too high, and in the maximum position, it was so, that in higher ranges I wasn't able to hear it. I checked the the pots and they were OK, also checked the tracks but I couldn't find any errors in the layout nor in the soldering. I thought that changing the voltage near the intensity pot I can lower the frequencies of the filter, so I decided to replace the 1KB Intensity pot for an 5KB. I couldn't find any so I replaced it with the attack pot, which in my opinion wasn't doing much. Now I have:
Attack: 1KB
Intensity: 5KB
Now the effect frequencies are lower and more how I expected them to be. Now I have a little problem with this mod: The green led doesn't turn on in the higher half of the Intensity pot so I will lower its series resistance (R12). I guess it will maybe change the frequency but I'll test it and keep you informed.
Hi.
This is a replica from the original, the image is mirrored. I've narrowed down the sides a bit to fit into a box like the one proposed by pssst at pisotones. Measurements are 170 x 87,5 mm. I've adapted the pot pads to fit alpha 16mm pots, and also added the pads for R6 and D3 as ChanchoPancho said.
Now I'm trying to put the components in place, I'll tell you when done.
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff334/jotaventura/Pedales/meatball_pcb.png?t=1263764308)
You've connected all the filtering caps together as they come out of the filter switch, they shouldn't be like that.
Oops. I've just seen it.
I shouldn't work at night, the errors appear at day.
Now I think it's correct.
Ok. I think I've finished the layout:
(http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff334/jotaventura/Pedales/meatball_pcbcomp.png)
The names of the components are based on the schematic by joep. R.led (that doesn't appear at the schematic) may be 2k2. I forgot to label D1 and D2, the diodes connected to pins 12 and 13 of the tl074.
I have a doubt about the leds connected to R10-11-12. While in the joep schematic their negative poles are connected together and the positive ones go to the resistors, in this photo there seems to be a + sign just in the opposite way:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/lovetone_meatball_04.jpg)
I'm trying to imagine how it would affect if they were inverted...
Any clue?
However, looking at the photo I think I see (by the shape of capsules) that the leds are positioned correctly according to the schematic by joep, contradicting the + sign on the pcb. Or maybe this is not a + sign, it's small and the image is not high quality...
I've arranged a bit the position of the rotary switches because they were too close to the edge of the box, you can see it in the image of the post #100. The one in post #103 has not changed, but it's only intended for the components position.
Ok... I got mine built at the weekend so am wanting to compare notes. I used my pcb (page 4 i think) and jota ventura's layout they're pretty much the same. I've checked for broken traces shorts, bad joints etc and it all looks good.
It definitely works... but I have a number of questions/observations regarding how it works:
Sens pot - mine needs to be maxed to get the effect to trigger and in the 'Up' position my indicator LED isn't as "active" as it should be. I've read nearly all the threads on this board and a few others beside and this seems to be a recurring complaint in relation to guitar output ( I have a Jazzmaster with Seymour Duncan "vintage" SJM-1s, a low output guitar I guess). In the 'down' position my LED is nearly always on and can be dimmed/brightened with the Intens pot, is this correct?
Attack & Decay pots - just begining to figure out how these work together but again only a small usable area within the first third of each.
Colour - again a recurring complaint, mine also does very little and only makes a tonal change in about the last 20%. I might do the mod on this that is out there.
Intens - this seems to be working fine and depending on all the other settings has a a wide area of use.
Blend - Again this seems to work as reported with the volume dip/phase effect somewhere in the middle.
My trigger section seems to work fine Off/Full/Half as I say in the 'Down' position the light is nearly always on and i need to do a whole lot of tweaking to get a usable sound, this responds better to slow chords than single notes.
My filter section seems to work fine but the higher range settings need tweaked in other areas to get usable sounds, they are very high as ChanchoPancho points out.
My biggest concern is how hard it is for my guitar to trigger this effect, I have the parts to build a Micro Amp, would this help out?
Are there any resistors that could be swapped out to increase the sensitivity or the input of the signal? Or could the resistors on the input of the vactrols be swapped out for another value, any suggestions?
I'll post my voltages for comparison. Apologies though, I'm using a regulated 9v power supply
At input: 9.12 V
TL074
1 4.20
2 4.20
3 4.15
4 8.41
5 4.15
6 4.20
7 4.20
8 4.20
9 4.20
10 4.15
11 0.00
12 1.50
13 4.19
14 4.19
MC1458
1 2.01
2 1.93
3 0.00
4 0.00
5 1.50
6 1.94
7 1.94
8 8.41
Vactrol1
1 (-) 0.00
2 (+) 1.52
3 4.52
4 4.52
Vactrol2
1 (-) 0.00
2 (+) 1.52
3 4.52
4 4.52
Congratulations, it's kind of a slow cooker this thread, but everyone is gradually getting there.
Sorry, but I'm no help for you at all as yet. I've delayed this build until I have my UV/photoresist process up and running, almost done now.
I have parts already and I'll be on this within the next 2 weeks, but thats an eternity right!
My question(s) to you would be - how sure are you that your traces are good, and if you are sure of the PCB, then do you think there's something fundamentally wrong with the layout or can we tune this by switching out components.
I guess I'll do what I should do with every build and breadboard first.
I'll post back as soon as I get somewhere.
I've checked the traces with a magnifying glass and back-light, they seem fine. Like I say, this works, but it's a matter of details in how it works and I think it's a case of tuning rather than the layouts not being 'correct', given that they're traced straight from the original pcb. I'm using vactrols and wonder if that affects the circuit in some way.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Sens pot - mine needs to be maxed to get the effect to trigger and in the 'Up' position my indicator LED isn't as "active" as it should be. I've read nearly all the threads on this board and a few others beside and this seems to be a recurring complaint in relation to guitar output ( I have a Jazzmaster with Seymour Duncan "vintage" SJM-1s, a low output guitar I guess). In the 'down' position my LED is nearly always on and can be dimmed/brightened with the Intens pot, is this correct?
Yes this is correct. I've tried and increased the value of the sens pot, and it seems to help a bit, but not enough.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Attack & Decay pots - just begining to figure out how these work together but again only a small usable area within the first third of each.
The decay pot must be higher than attack to get the effect.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Colour - again a recurring complaint, mine also does very little and only makes a tonal change in about the last 20%. I might do the mod on this that is out there.
This is the correct behaviour.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
My trigger section seems to work fine Off/Full/Half as I say in the 'Down' position the light is nearly always on and i need to do a whole lot of tweaking to get a usable sound, this responds better to slow chords than single notes.
My filter section seems to work fine but the higher range settings need tweaked in other areas to get usable sounds, they are very high as ChanchoPancho points out.
Yes, it's not a "plug'n'play" pedal, it needs lots of tweaking.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
My biggest concern is how hard it is for my guitar to trigger this effect, I have the parts to build a Micro Amp, would this help out?
I have the same problem. Yes, a microamp should help, but I hope there's any other solution.
Quote from: ringworm on February 08, 2010, 05:33:05 AM
Are there any resistors that could be swapped out to increase the sensitivity or the input of the signal? Or could the resistors on the input of the vactrols be swapped out for another value, any suggestions?
I think the problem is that we use vactrols instead of leds like the original, but I've tried it also with leds and it was the same...
Maybe increasing even more the sens pot, or bypassing R4, or maybe bypassing R9... ??
Mine works well, but I've got to hit the strings very hard and I'm not comfortable with that, I hope we find a solution.
I gotta tell you, if they're all like this - this is one finicky pedal. I have a real one. I've had it for years (I got it new, and it's serial #73, or something like that...). Same guitar, same settings, different days - Sounds different. Sometimes it triggers perfect, sometimes It wants me to play with it for a half hour until it'll allow me to get the sound I want. The rotary pots also are missing the washers to keep them locked to the # positions on the graphic (never had them, I'm assuming they usually do?)... so that gets crazy sounds if you go outside of those settings. I'd really like to build a clone, and sell the original (it's mint and early, must be worth a fair amount), but it seems like the clones act just as nutty. It's a shame as when it's dialed in - amazing... but I could never trust it enough to put it on my live board.
Quote from: gmr1 on February 09, 2010, 09:05:05 AMthis is one finicky pedal.
So the originals are as temperamental? The harmony central reviews back this up also. Yeah, I don't mean to imply that this build doesn't work, cos I've gotten some great sounds out of it but 'finicky' is definitely the word.
Any chance you'd post a set of voltages from the original for comparison? I made mine in the 'auto-wah' setting from the manual.
Quote from: jota.ventura on February 09, 2010, 08:39:22 AMMaybe increasing even more the sens pot, or bypassing R4, or maybe bypassing R9... ??
Could be worth a try. I thought maybe R10 and R11 could change to suit the vactrols better.
Quote from: ringworm on February 09, 2010, 11:56:35 AM
Any chance you'd post a set of voltages from the original for comparison? I made mine in the 'auto-wah' setting from the manual.
Sure, no prob. I'll try to get that done before the end of the week.
Quote from: ringworm on February 09, 2010, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: gmr1 on February 09, 2010, 09:05:05 AMthis is one finicky pedal.
So the originals are as temperamental? The harmony central reviews back this up also. Yeah, I don't mean to imply that this build doesn't work, cos I've gotten some great sounds out of it but 'finicky' is definitely the word.
Any chance you'd post a set of voltages from the original for comparison? I made mine in the 'auto-wah' setting from the manual.
Quote from: jota.ventura on February 09, 2010, 08:39:22 AMMaybe increasing even more the sens pot, or bypassing R4, or maybe bypassing R9... ??
Could be worth a try. I thought maybe R10 and R11 could change to suit the vactrols better.
I did change teh pots in the vactrols section and it didn't make any sound change I even bypass them and no change.
Quote from: ChanchoPancho on February 11, 2010, 03:44:50 PM
I did change teh pots in the vactrols section and it didn't make any sound change I even bypass them and no change.
What pots? Don't you mean resistors? R10 and R11 maybe?
Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.
Yes the Resistors, sorry, my bad. Have you tried it?
I built the micro amp and using it in front of the effect the difference is night and day. I need a box for this now, I keep playing with it.
Quote from: ChanchoPancho on March 04, 2010, 03:12:39 AM
Yes the Resistors, sorry, my bad. Have you tried it?
Not yet. I've been busy with other things.
Ive been on the road for a few weeks so never got to finish this thing..hows everyones units working? :)
Hi Mike. I've been having fun with mine after an unsure start. It's been on top of my amp for about 3 or 4 weeks now, still no enclosure and numerous repairs for excess fiddling!
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/Photo0064.jpg)
It's taken that long just to get a feel for what all the different controls do and how they respond to one another. I think the response could be better, it's nowhere near as sensitive as my neutron build but I'm playing with it more than I play with that so go figure. I built a micro-amp to go in front of it and that really makes a difference to the response but i often play without that also. Without the amp my response starts to kick in around 2/3rds of the way around Sens, with the amp I'll get response before the half way mark. The only mod I made was the 'colour mod' that had been posted when the original McMeat layout was being built here. That just involves joining the traces between the wiper pad to lug 3 on that control. It greatly improves the useful range of that effect. I also made a board for the jacks and have tested the send channels. They work. I've not got an expression pedal so I haven't had a chance to test those jacks out.
I built it with my own 'Albondiga' pcb but I'd recommend jota.ventura's as his pot pads are bigger and he's reduced the width a little to fit in a 7" enclosure. I used his layout as a reference and it's good.
That looks really really cool. I still have 2 mcmeats to finish but after that Ill do one of these. :D
Hey Jota, when you said the image is mirrored, do I mirror the image for printing or just go ahead and print it?
Using clear transfer sheets on all my builds now and black light bulbs. flawless method but the sheets are not cheap.
Well, I don't know about that method, I always draw my pcb's with a pen.
I don't remember what I meant by 'mirrored', but the drawing corresponds to the copper side of the PCB. If you look at the post #92 in page 5 you'll see it.
I'm glad to see that my work is useful for someone.
coolness. Thanks. You just draw right on the pcb? damn! :o
Yes. It's not that difficult, I use a marker specially designed to draw on pcb's and then an acid bath.
I just place the sheet on a sensitized board and bathe it in blacklight. a few minutes and piping hot ferric chloride or amonium persulphate.
Yours actually takes some talent. :-\
hey all
first of all- well done to all you guys putting so much effort into this one- good to see group involvement-
the mcmeat was (if i remember correctly) my second ever gtr pedal build. it was quite easy on the board, but fiddly to wire. i managed to squeeze it into a 1590bb (without a foot switch).
can i just say for newbies considering this build- there is a lot of mojo around all lovetone pedals, and not all of it is deserved- the meatball is an auto filter with many knobs for fine tuning- if you are a filter nut this may be the build for you- but like the univibe to the voodoovibe, you will likely get just as good a sound and "easier use" out of the mutron III. the mutron III is a much easier build, and will deliver a very similar sound without the "fine tuning knob" complications. as i said "if you are a filter nut" this may be the pedal for you- if you are looking for auto filer that sounds just as good as the meat ball but with ease of use, go the mutron III. to be honest i wish i had not bothered with the meatball given how difficult it is to use. i cant remember who or when (and i didnt bother researching it), but someone told me the meatball was a hacked mutron III.
check the mutron III at pisotones (if its still live). they had audio samples there when i built mine. also check the mutron micro v which is an even easier build-
cheers, ulysses.
Hey guys, I have some news... In my latest posts I said that the frequencies of the filter were too high and I've been trying to correct that issue. I'm lowering the value of R6 (1M8) so the gain of the detector stage is lowered as well. I'm still experimenting with different values so when I have de definitive one, I'll let you know.
I've been trying to view the plot of the colour mod but i can't find it. Where the hell is it?!
Colour mod??
Yes, i red that shorting lugs 2 & 3 of the colour pot, improves its response and I also red that somewhere there's a plot showing what this mod does. If anyone have info about this i'd appreciated.
Hey guys, after a lot of time experimenting with the meatball I found a way to correct the frequencies that were too high specially in the up mode:
I replaced R9 (330) with a jumper. This way more current draws into the vtl's leds.
I also found after playing a lot with it, that some pots are ment to be always on the max position like Sens And colour.
This are the settings for the pots i find more convinient:
Up mode:
Sens: max
Attack: min - 9 o clock
Decay: min - 12 o clock
Colour: max
Intes: min
Blend: max
Down Mode:
Sens: max
Attack: min - 9 o clock
Decay: 12 o clock
Colour: max
Intes: min
Blend: max
I'm not 100% happy with the sound. I think it's still to "treblely" so I think I'm going to change the filter caps (C9-C16)
I'll let you know if something comes up.
What I did with the mcmeat pdf version, is get a 6 position rotary for the range control. Since I dont have sccess to a 4 position.
Then I copied the the range control from the Supertron schematic. :icon_cool: And just increased the cap size to tase really.
Wow I didn't know that one. It sounds really great. Here it is a page that describes the whole project (for the ones that didn't know it, like me) http://msswartz.tripod.com/supertron1.htm (http://msswartz.tripod.com/supertron1.htm)
Mike, what cap values did you use finally? From your post I understood that you used larger values than the supertron. I'm asking to save some time... thanks in advance.
Try as high as a .047 and go down from there. Dont have my mcmeat close to me. :icon_redface: :icon_mad:
Hey, I got news again. And I must correct the thing I posted before. R9 must be increased to get lower filter frequencies.
I replaced it with a 1k resistor and replaced the intensity pot as well. I'm trying with a 5kB instead of the original 1KB.
With this higher value you can get very low frquencies, so low that i think 5k is maybe too much. I think I'm going to put a 4k7
in parallel with it so I can obtain a value around 2k5.
That's it for now...
Does anyone have a final confirmed debugged version of the pcb and layout images posted in replies #59 and #73? I have seen people discuss problems with these since their original posting, and although ringworm posted corrections, the layout image has since disappeared from the original post. I am interested in getting a board together and starting the project soon and this looks like the best starting point to me. Any help is greatly appreciated, as always!
Ringworm recommended the Jota Ventura version because it's slightly compressed to fit in a smaller box and had wider traces. I was about to use the ChanchoPancho version with Jota's layout.... when I had an unfortunate etching accident. Now I'm again waiting to see the upshot of Chicago mike's suggestion. It seems a bit mad to have three pots that are on max all the time, so if that's the case I may have to look at changing the PCB or the circuit or making a monstrous hybrid with the supertron. This thread keeps rolling on but it doesn't seem like anyone is really satisfied yet, so I'm biding my time with this one. Good work from everyone though, sorry to be lazy in this thread, I promise I'm pulling my weight on some other projects.
Skruffyhound,
Thanks for the reply. I saw the pcb and layout on replies 100 and 103, but I had one immediate concern about the agreement of the images just from eyeballing the two. It appears to me that they are slightly different images, in that line coming from D6 touches one of the unused poles of the rotary switch in the layout but not on the pcb image. I doubt that this would have any effect, since this is an unused pad. I was just worried that there might be some other smaller difference that I have not seen yet. Regardless, I am set on using this design and layout. I am going to go through the Mcmeat 1.1 Joep layout and compare these two and compile a list of questions. I will be back with any issues I find (if any). Thanks again!
Patrick
Phoganuci, both drawings are ok, but the last version is the one on post #100. I only moved slightly the rotary switches and the bypass led in order to be more symmetric in the box.
Go ahead ;)
jota.ventura... Never done my own pcb before. What hole size should I use? Different for rotaries than other components? Thanks!
For most components 0,8mm should be ok. The rotary switches need a little more, about 1mm or 1,2mm, I don't remember. Can't you just measure the pins?
Hey everyone, I would like to say that my layout is ok to those who where asking. Altought there are a couple of problems i've found and read about the original design:
1. Mix of phase inverted signals in the blend pot.
The filter inverts signals phase in every opamp stage. This causes a problem in mixing the wet and dry signal in the blend pot. The only mode that works properly is the band pass, in low and high pass mode this problem is noticable.
The solution is to put an signal inverter in each low and high pass mode before the switch.
2. Use of distortion and blend pot.
The other issue i've found is that if you're going to use distortion you hace to place it in the effect loop. This causes 2 problems. First, you can't use the distortion unless the meatball isn't in bypass mode. The 2nd problem is that if you blend the distorted and filtered signal with the one at the input, it will mix a clean and distorted one which in my opinion sounds awful. To correct both issues i think of various mods:
a. Input is now the return.
b. Add a amp stage in the new input so now it is buffered (so you can plug your guitar directly)
c. Previous Input is now trigger. This is just to control the filter response.
d. in the trigger input replace the opamp stage with one that can amplify and contains the sens pot.
(now the input can be more sensitive). One thing you should add is a trigger output so you can connect
directly your guitar there and trigger output to other effects.
e. Change the first pin of blend pot to the opamp of new input's output.
3. Up & Down mode assimetry.
The filter response is very different in up and down mode. I put and example of how it should work: Suppose the filter is in up mode and the center frequency is in 500Hz. If you play the guitar it should sweep to 700hz and now go down again to 500hz. In the down mode it should be in 500hz at first too, sweep down to 300hz an the go back to 500 again. The problem is that in the down mode frequencies are very low. it think it would be 200-100-200 for the given example.
To correct this issue i think one should put a trimmer in both Sw2A and Sw2C in up/down mode switch. Both trimmer shoul be connected between GND and V+ and the middle lugs to the switch.
Later i'll post a schematic of this changes
Quote from: ChanchoPancho on June 22, 2010, 05:59:45 PM
Later i'll post a schematic of this changes
So here it is. This should give you an example of the mods. I havent asign values to new components yet.
(http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae352/ChanchoPanchoChile/Meatball/Meatball_ChanchoPancho/MeatballModChanchoPanchoRev01.jpg)
hello, help me please. The problem with "IC2" set at TL072 signal comes on PIN2, of PIN1 no longer published, a map voltage giving.
IC2(TL072)
1 8.92
2 3.15
3 0.57
4 0.00
5 8.50
6 6.60
7 6.60
8 9.50
hello, help me please. The problem with "IC2" set at TL072 signal comes on PIN2, of PIN1 no signal, a map voltage giving.
IC2(TL072)
1 8.92
2 3.15
3 0.57
4 0.00
5 8.50
6 6.60
7 6.60
8 9.50
Del please & Reply #144
I'm finally getting around to etching, using the ChanchoPancho layout. is there a final parts layout diagram updated to reflect the corrections & comments accumulated in this thread?
cheers to all who contributed, i'll see if I can make sense of it with a build attempt.
- Strategy
Hi all,
I am noticing many of you have created the PCB just mimicking exactly the original, including all connections.
However, if I am not wrong, the schematic you guys are working on is the one by Joep, which is thought as a True Bypass scheme.
Could you enlighten me if you are using a true bypass or a buffered bypass scheme, since the original Meatball is buffered bypass?
Thanks,
David
The schematic was really only used for reference, when I built mine I had it wired the same as the original, buffered bypass.
Thanks, Ringworm.
Is there any shcematic for the buffered bypass? I take it people copying the original PCB are using it as well? Since I can not find any reference to the buffered bypass in the thread.
Thanks
David
No schematic but I had this wiring diagram posted in this thread somewhere. You could maybe figure it out from that, I just copied from gutshots of the pedal.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albongigas_wiring.jpg)
Thanks a lot, Ringworm.
I am kinda sucking info from this topic since I am building my Meatball on a PCB I etched myself but hope no one gets offense :)
EDIT (that was intended for the Meatsphere thread, sorry)
I am wondering about Pedals 1 and 2 and their connection points...
D
With regard to the jacks, I just made reference to the gutshots posted earlier in the thread. Word of warning, I don't own an expression pedal, so never tested 'pedals 1 & 2', the send/return worked fine though. I had knocked up a smaller layout but never built it and made the jack wiring a little clearer. Again, use with caution, as it's untested.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11183663/meatwire.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11183663/meatwire.pdf)
Thanks again, ringworm. WIll keep you posted.
D
Hi everybody,
Finally assembling my McMeat.
I have a question: why are R17 and R21 different values? In the Mu-Tron III, they are both 220K.
Any ideas?
thnkx
D
Just for the fun of it, here are two clips of my ultra modded McMeat.
I have added an LFO, independent outputs for Dry and the 3 filter options, a buffer to the Return, an inverter for HP and LP so as to avoid phase issues, a Full Wave rectifier and a manual Cutoff knob.
http://snd.sc/MFvgko
http://snd.sc/MFvfgc
Best,
Dave
UP!!
no one tested the ringworm's layout?
for layot with pot on board where can i take the schematic? is that on mcmeat pdf?
sorry for my english i'm italian
thank you all ;D
Here is a schematic, I I don't know if it's for the onboard pots..... http://www.experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Filters%20Wahs%20and%20VCFs/Lovetone%20Meatball%20McMeat.pdf
Necro-bump...
HAs anyone verified any of the layouts on this thread?
I am interested in doing a 1-for-1 PCB clone of the original Meatball and this is the closest I have seen. Can anyone verify that ANY of these layouts are good to go? ;D
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on April 02, 2014, 11:39:24 AM
Necro-bump...
HAs anyone verified any of the layouts on this thread?
I am interested in doing a 1-for-1 PCB clone of the original Meatball and this is the closest I have seen. Can anyone verify that ANY of these layouts are good to go? ;D
May or may not be what you're looking for, but I've been tempted to grab alanp's shared oshpark PCB of the meatball from here:
http://oshpark.com/profiles/alanp
Thanks John but, I am really interested in a faithful reproduction of the original Meatball PCB. Looking to do EVERYTHING DIY! :icon_eek:
I built it with my layout and it worked. I should warn you that the design has some issues I commented in a previous post, but if you want to build it, go ahead.
In case anyone wanna know, I'm currently working in a similar design based on the supertron (I think someone mentioned it in this thread) Here's the original project:
http://msswartz.tripod.com/supertron1.htm (http://msswartz.tripod.com/supertron1.htm)
My goal is to house this in a 1590 type enclosure, so I'm changing the rotary switches (that take a lot of space) for toggle switches (which doesn't). I'm trying to mod it to make it work with a single power supply, not bipolar like the supertron. I also changed the input/output/send/return for the ones I commented in my previous post.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on April 02, 2014, 02:26:15 PM
Thanks John but, I am really interested in a faithful reproduction of the original Meatball PCB. Looking to do EVERYTHING DIY! :icon_eek:
emailed
also, I havent double checked but this trace drawing looks accurate.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albongigas_pcb.jpg
this wiring diagram is correct too
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c143/ringworm_1974/albongigas_wiring.jpg
Bump...
Just wondering if the Pedal1 and Pedal2 jacks need to be isolated from the enclosure.
I built this and I am getting great results OUTSIDE THE ENCLOSURE.
When I install it in the enclosure, I lose effected signal when I plug in the Output plug and I get voltage on the enclosure (2.5VDC)
Thoughts??
On the wiring diagram above the jack third from the left, can't read what it's called, appears to have its sleeve connected somewhere other than ground so needs isolating. The others all have their sleeves connected to ground.
Quote from: slacker on June 13, 2014, 01:42:24 PM
On the wiring diagram above the jack third from the left, can't read what it's called, appears to have its sleeve connected somewhere other than ground so needs isolating. The others all have their sleeves connected to ground.
Thanks Ian... I GOT IT WORKING!!! ;) :icon_eek: :icon_twisted:
BTW... I just went ahead and put in isolated jacks for BOTH of the Pedal jacks. After doing this... it still wouldn't work :-\
BUT... I found a bad Output enclosed jack. First "jack"" that has ever gone bad on me. Replaced that (after installing the isolated jacks) and it fired up good!