DIYstompboxes.com

Hi Folks!

I'm gonna build a multi-fx board. Well, that's what I plan to do... I've not built that much DIY stuff this far (some boosters, delay, Thor, Omnidrive), but really got the hang of it. Now I want to put all my fave+usefull pedals in one enclosure. I'll post my progress in this thread, with some pics, and hope to receive feedback... I'm sure I overlook lotsa things, and I'm sure I'll run into trouble on my own. I *need* you guys (and ladies!)  :-* ;)

What do I want in the board:
-Fuzzes (1 modern, 1 vintage FF)
-boosters (SHO, rangemaster)
-OD/Dist (Thor for sure!, TS, Rat, DOD250, MI Crunchbox) -> guess I'll drop some here
-Modulation (CE-2, Neovibe, phaser, delay pt80)
-built-in tuner (I'll rehouse my Korg DT-10).

But I want MORE:
-3 (?) external fx, which can be switched from the board (so I can still keep my DD20 etc)
-A line selector/looper
-An AB switch to switch channels on my Vox AC30.
-Built in regulated, ultra clean powersupply. With, say, 4-8 seperate outputs, at least one pos ground, and adjustable voltage to simulate drained batt. Voltages 9v, and some 12v. I also want to be able to power my 3 external fx from this board.
-maybe a stereo output (but I'm not sure about this, seems like to much trouble with all these fx)

And some FEATURES:
-modular design. In otherwords, it is NOT fixed. I should be able to replace effects. How? Well, I am thinking to connect the seperate fx via a connector you see in computer-hardware (maybe an ethernet/telephone line connecter). Just something you can pop in and out quite easily.
-following the above, I want to be able to reroute the fx internally. So the fx-order is not fixed either. Again, I think I can do this with the mentioned connectors.
-I LOVE the woodwork skills of Basicaudio, really impressive. And I do LOVE the upcoming Vox AC15 limited edition...also in nice wood enclosure...you'll get it by now...I want this board to be made (at least at the outside) of wood, good looking wood.

Well, that's it for now. I already received a bunch of parts so I can start breadboarding the fx and modding them to my liking. When I draw up some plans and stuff I 'll post it here.

Any sugestions?

Here's one idea... you could have a shell, say an angled rectangle. Then, instead of having one solid faceplate, you could have rectangular holes, and basically you get your FX, fix it to a 'lid' and then screw it in. Furthermore, you could make lots of different routing paths by making them have a lip or bent bit on the short side, so they basically hang to the top edge, with the controls on the front bit, and over the back is the jacks. This way, you could unscrew it, and replace it easily.

Not sure how well this would work with wood though...

Is this roughly what you meant by

Quotemodular design. In otherwords, it is NOT fixed. I should be able to replace effects. How? Well, I am thinking to connect the seperate fx via a connector you see in computer-hardware (maybe an ethernet/telephone line connecter). Just something you can pop in and out quite easily.
-following the above, I want to be able to reroute the fx internally. So the fx-order is not fixed either. Again, I think I can do this with the mentioned connectors.

Few suggestions:

1. A couple of footswitches for amp channel and reverb switching.

2. Option to "swap" two EFX loops with one footswitch for that RYTHM/LEAD effect chains.

3. Combine the above so that when the efx loop is switched it changes the state of your amps CH or Reverb.

4. Multi-pin disconnect. Allied has several affordable, small, circular multipin connectors with 4 to 11 contacts. I've seen touring amp rigs that use a circular multi-pin connectors with multi-channel snakes or cable looms to connect between pedalboards and amps and racks and amps.  At each end there is an interface panel/box. Channels in the guitar snake include:
Guitar 1
Guitar 2
Feed to Rackmount Tuner
Red Box (Amp DI) feed to console
Built in cabinet mic (SM57) feed  to console
In-ears Direct
In-ears Ambient
Wireless 1
Wireless 2
And some strange things too like drum machines and samplers too.



5. Alternate power sources, specifically a bank of 9V batteries that can be used for recording to get rid of the wall warts. I've run eight DIY pedals off of four 9V batteries for up to four hours before dropping below 7.5V with a load. Those panel mount dual 9V battery DRAWERS as so cool to have mounted on the side. I'll see if I can find a pic of one.

Oh and a plexiglass or lexan top so you can see all your internal hard work!  :icon_wink:

Lights! Lots of Lights!

In my experience, with these sort of "ultimate" projects you spend a lot of time in the "dreaming" stage. Then, not much happens. It just gets too big and out of hand. Listing just about every effect you want and trying put them into a board simply won't happen.

You need to think about how to limit the scale of the project. Try to make it as small and simple as possible, while still being useful. E.g. - if I could only have 5 effects in the whole world - what would they be? What order would they go on the board?

Start out small and build it. That will give you some experience in working with complex multi-fx stuff. Once it is complete, go ahead and build the "ultimate" rig.

200% agree with d95err,

first choose the pedal you really want and need, then make all your pedal works....cause it take lots of time to build all those effect...and debug then...

bent

Thanks for the ideas, suggestions and warnings!

I agree with d95err too. I will keep that in mind. I'm pretty sure I'll slim down the list of fx which will end up on the board. It will however still be preboost, OD/Dist (3 types), post-boost, modulation (probably chorus with mods) and delay. The 3 external fx allow me to hook up lots of fx (if I want to) because in fact they will be 3 external fx loops.

@roobin: I hope to soon draw down some of the idea's, so I can visionalize how I think I will place and route the fx. I don't want to pop them in and out of the board (like the Line6 Tonecores), but I do want to be able to change the fx without too much hassle. Not during a gig, but because I know I'll keep searching for more and more 'tone'. (that's why I DIY...)

@pushtone: nice ideas! I think you're saying what I have in mind, but more and bigger. I don't gig that often, don't have wireless systems or a huge rig. The Rythm/Lead switch should be included for sure!

Plexiglass could be nice, but I specifically want a nice wooden encloser. I could make the bottom out of plexi. Nice to look in side and it will make the box ligther.

I'll keep you all posted ;) because I will go on, it's gonna be like a g-system, but 'analog' and 'wood' instead of digital and metal.

Think about making multiple small boxes... you could always make it so that they attach to each other.  But this way you could have one box that's a series of fuzz pedals, one that's a series of ODs and Distortions, one box of modulation, one box of control function switchers.  Come up with a way to make them all attach together into one larger Voltron, and that way as you complete each box, you'll have something usable.  Just an idea.

Your initial idea is good... kind of a Cornish sort of thing, but it's easily something you could start and never find the time to finish.  If your complete box enclosure is something you plan ahead, you could end up finishing a fuzz and a chorus, and never getting any further... then you'd have a lot of wasted money and time.

although i also fully agree with d95err, there are a lot of different ways to go about your project depending on your needs.  if you're not gigging that much, why even build an ultimate pedal board when you can easily just take a few minutes to plug in your effects?  one possibility is that you could build the effects in a modular synth type setup...  like this...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sowa.synth.net/modular/modularcase.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sowa.synth.net/modular/index.html&h=672&w=520&sz=100&hl=en&start=18&um=1&tbnid=tmKwB_EpU6qn5M:&tbnh=138&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmodular%2Bsynth%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN 

that way you can have the ins/outs right on the front for easy/flexible patching, you could make it a little bigger than you need so you could always add more panels (and you could fill the empty space with blank panels so it still looks nice!), even add some interesting options, such as:  build a sample and hold generator to control voltage and have that be patchable into your modulation effect(s) for more waveshapes, etc.  you could also add a stompbox with multiple switches to use for turning effects on/off. 

OR you could make something like this:  (scroll down)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=36392.2280

Have you given any thought as to what parts get integrated.

The "module" could include the I/O jacks, DC jack, and switch so that each module has those part integrated.

or

The module could be bare bones, just the circuit and controls with the I/O jacks, DC, and switching integrated into the board mainframe.

I think I would go with the latter. I'm picturing eight footswitches that either electronically or electromechanical switch the module I/O.
You could even intergrate the switching circuit on the module and trigger it from a tactile FS on the board mainframe.

Finding the right module connector that allows easy swapping would be a challenge.

busy days ;) that's why I didn't respond fast. Thanks for thinking with me here.

I have considerd the 'small boxes chained together' and I do like that approach. However, it's not what I have in mind. I'm not going for the most effective board, just what I think is cool, nice, and fun to build (it's a DIY forum right..).

Thanks for pointing me to Cornish. I have looked at him before, but forgot about it. Good to see how he makes his boards. Great he shares those WIP pics. Top notch quality...but sooo ugly (imho...). I want something that looks cool too. It made me realize the board will be big with all those switches. Maybe to big. Another push to drop some fx off the board.

Modulestuff: I think I'll seperate the board from the pots (maybe seperate pcb for the pots and swithces). I'll use millenium bypass pcb's with the dpdt-switches (cheaper, and switch easier). There will be three main module boards: psu, fx-send board (fxb A) (for fx out to amp and return) and 'other fx' board (fxb B). The fx-pcb's will have a connecter, which will allow me to plug in a fx at fxb A or fxb B. This will give me the opportunity to change the order of fx, and to put internal fx in my amp's fx loop or not. I don't want to use jacks inside of the board (too big). Just one input jackbus, and one or two (stereo) output jack(s).

________
I've been breadboarding some:
Rat -> NICE I will include the LED mod and a switch, this one is going on th board
TS808 -> nice ts tone, like it as it is. On the board too
Currently breadboarding a CE-2 Chorus... complex build, but fun to do. No comment on this one yet.

-I'm bad, very bad at drawing on pc (or drawing at all...) but here's some to show a bit what I have in mind:

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9485/fxboad2ec3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I'm considering dropping the tuner DT-10 off the board, and just use another external input/switch, but for the Tuner. Takes it out of my chain. DT-10 is known as a good buffer, so I I don't have a problem with it being in my chain. What say you? On the board, or external?

Be sure to leave enough space around your foot switches! Things look crammed on that picture!

What I do is measure the width of my shoes, add 1 cm / 0,5 inch and have the switches evenly spaced. That way, you'll have plenty of room for your Fred Astaire tap dancing!  :)

Ah good point, I forgot to mention to sizes:

Width: 60 cm
length: 25-30 cm
height: low (near footswitches) to enought height for pots, boards and jacks (5 cm?)

Spaces between switches on one row is 8 cm. Between rows, 2.5 cm. So 5 cm between switches in row 1 and 3.

Should be space enough, right?

(I guess a 1:1 drawing would be usefull here, just to put my feet on the drawing :P)

those knobs will be organized better. Number of knobs is a guess, just to paint the picture. Also text will be added. I want that part to look like the panel of my vox ac30. So, wine-red background  with cream font.

I think you still need to simplify things a lot. Here's one suggestion:

You're not likely to use phaser, neovibe and chorus at the same time. So use one footswitch for those three effects called "Modulation". Then use a rotary switch to select which effect you want to use.

You can probably do the same for some of the distortions.

This will also help you scale things. You can start out with only one single modulation effect, and then add more later.

I like that idea, I'll give it some more thought. I could have a Modualtion footswitch, and then per modulation type a normal switch which connects it to the main switch or not. In that cause I have less, modulation footswitches, but if needed I can still use them at the same time. Sounds right?

Same could go for OD/Dist section and boost section. I like that idea, thanks!

Careful using a rotary switch for switching multiple modulation and/or distortion effects... many of those need to be input grounded when bypassed or they will 'leak'.

Cool idea - did you check out this one by SFR?
(http://homepage.mac.com/sfjoshua/IMG_0088.jpg)

Yeah, I did. Looks awesome! But it's not what I have in mind.

If I use an on/off switch I can either connect them to the 'modulation section' or to ground. That would solve that leaking issue, right?

One of the nice things about an integrated analog multi-fx unit is the capacity for engaging in parallel processing and re-ordering of effects.

A feature which I highly recommend is having an active splitter at the front end and a mixer at the output end.  Once you start combining effects in paralle you'll quickly find yourself spoiled.  If you can build in foot-controlled panning between mixer inputs, you won't be able to come back to "mere mono".

Multi FX units are great.   

My unit wasn't constructed the way it was mainly about getting everything I was using at shows into an easier to handle and set up rig in the shortest amount of time possible (i.e., when I started putting things together, I really needed them *yesterday*) while still being very easily modable, as I was was far from having arrived at "my sound".  (I was still at the point where my rig changed every gig (usually as I built some new toy).   But I was tired of making a mad scramble to set up - it took me longer than the drummer.   The current unit has evolved over time to become what it is now, which is far from ideal, but works.  It's utilitarian.  I'm still tweaking things, figuring out what I actually want and need in a live situation.  At some point in the future, I would love to rebox the thing into a nicer looking unit, a slightly different setup.  But I'm playing shows now, and I need this now.  I put the whole thing off a lot longer than was ideal because I kept planning and changing things and working on inconsequential parts and eventually I just had to get to work and build something because doing nothing wasn't changing my situation.   

But things I noticed building mine:

Foot size - I had to center my footswitches at least 2.75" apart, if I remember correctly.  Sometimes it's still not big enough.  Footswitches above other footswitches had to be raised for me to not hit them. 

Board size - you can cram a lot of boosters, distortions, and other things in small spaces, but flangers, delays, and tremolos with way too many LFOs start taking up room inside.  So don't forget to take this into account, and plan on having an adequate depth (and the apropriate standoffs!) to squeeze pots and switches and such in the "layer" between the board and the enclosure if need be. 

Knobs - a tiny board (like the Trem Lune) with 5 knobs still needs space big enough for five knobs.  That's why I like what you've drawn (and the Cornish style projects) more than what I have - you've sort of moved away from the "box per effect" paridigm that I've still carried over into mine from when these where individual boxes.   But your method seems to make it more difficult to identify at a glance what belongs to what.   

As far as being able to select which type of pedal is being activated by a footswitch - this is a great idea in some instances, but just because you aren't using both boosters at the same time, does that mean you wouldn't want to easily be able to use one or the other, during a single song?  This is something that bit me in the rear in some iterations of my multi-fx projects - I have used rotary and toggles to select between different similar pedals, only to find that I really wish I could have gotten that other one at the crescendo of some song, instead of the one I was using at the begining. 

If you're working with what appears like it will be a rather large box, I'd see about integrating any volume/wah/expression pedals you plan on using right into this thing as well.   I know I hate having those couple of "external" things to still drag around.  Same thing with the tuner - I'd stick it right in the box as well. 

Ultimately, I think the way to really do this (And something I plan on implementing some point in the future) is to implement external switching - whether or not you move the effects themselves off the floor, having the effects switched via relays (for the true-bypass hardcore) or CMOS switching, or Boss-style or whatever will make life easier.  That makes them switched with a high-low logic signal, and you can do it from anywhere, and easily, and in a variety of ways.    Even if you don't program some fancy micro controller thing, even just switches to route what effects bypass control gets tied to what footswitch means you can cut down on the switches on the floor, and change multiple effects (contiguous or not!) with a single switch. 

Heck, many of my songs, while they may be performed differently every night, follow the same progression of effects that are on through the song each time - I'm obsessed with the idea of remote switching and programming to arrive at a three switch system - one switch to select a song, one switch to advance to the next preset for that song, and one to go back a preset if I mess up.  Hide all the effects in an box next to the amp, and just make everyone wonder.  (Although I'd still need to open the box up to tweak knobs between songs, I guess.)

You might need to take alook at RG. Keen's FX switcher project then, it is simple yet effective.

@Mark. That's a cool idea. Way too cool. Darn...you just added another "must have" to my already too big project :P Continueing down that road: What about a stereopath from start to end, and giving each fx the following option:
-Out of the chain
-Stereo A
-Stereo B
-Stereo A+B

This should be possible with a fourway switch, maybe a small slider above each section.

At the front of the chain a buffer+splitter. At the end a mixer/blender, and/or footcontrolled blend? This could even allow me to blend clean with distorted etc...sounds too cool to not try to implement.

@sfr. Thanks for sharing your 'real life' experience! Very insightfull. The knobs will be put 'away' from the fx, but will still be ordered by putting names and lines around the control panel (the winered bar around the knobs). Your ideas combined with the above make me lean towards 2 switches for each section. Boost, OD, Dist, Fuzz, Mod, Delay/trem.. This allows for enough options to get that extra cresondo (I hear you there!).

@fikri. Thanks for the tip. I've been checking it out, relais based switching looks cool indeed. However, I fear the pcb's will get to big (I need like 10+ switches) and it's quite expensive to build. 'Traditional' switching is cheaper.

It's getting more and more solid in my head. But what about sound quality? Will all those switches, input buffer, mixer/blender etc not degrade the sound too much? Because, of course looks and tweakability count, but sound quality is what is more important in the end.

Quote from: ponq on April 24, 2007, 11:49:58 AM
It's getting more and more solid in my head. But what about sound quality? Will all those switches, input buffer, mixer/blender etc not degrade the sound too much? Because, of course looks and tweakability count, but sound quality is what is more important in the end.

Short answer = Nah.  The switches won't degrade sound quality, and any splitters and mixers will not detract either.  The only real sonic impact they might have is if you haven't planned out your board carefully, and the wiring is going all over the place.  There, you run a risk of oscillation of other audio nasties.

One spiffy idea I got from Craig Anderton years ago was that of "stations".  A 2-pole, 6-position switch can be used to select (with TB) which of 5 circuits (or none) is inserted into a given position in the chain.  This can serve as functionally equivalent to a patch panel where this thing is routed here, and that thing there, except its cleaner and there are no external wires.  Ultimately perhaps not as flexible as a true patch panel, but damn close.  You can also make one of the stations an external loop, or make one of the positions selected for any station an external loop.

Quote from: ponq on April 24, 2007, 11:49:58 AM

@fikri. Thanks for the tip. I've been checking it out, relais based switching looks cool indeed. However, I fear the pcb's will get to big (I need like 10+ switches) and it's quite expensive to build. 'Traditional' switching is cheaper.

I started looking at the CD4053 based switching over Geofex before I started building my unit.  I never got it working (it is a functional circuit, the problems where my fault - probably around my PCB design for the unit) but I started ordering parts.  I was looking at combining it with the "pancake" switches (also at Geofex)  When you start looking at the bits needed in quantities of maybe 25 or more, switching like that becomes cheaper than mechanical switches - if you use a conventional actuator for a tactile switch, it seemed like it broke even.  Of course, the additional time involved in crafting extra circuit boards, making switch actuators (if you go the "pancake" route) and mounting things in a less than "normal" way is of value, but strictly from the $ spent aspect, I managed to get the costs down significantly. 

Of course, I got hung up, and as I said, needed the unit ASAP, so left that by the wayside, since most of my DIY pedals where already in enclosures, and I had mechanical switches to re-use when boxing them up. 

Which reminds me, I have 25-30 CD4053 chips and a new PCB layout I never finished . . .

As far as the size of switching PCBs,  it's often easier to stick a "thin" PCB (use axial rather than radial caps, etc.) somewhere along the walls of an enclosure, than mount a big ol' 3PDT right in the middle of things.  The genius of the "pancake" switches at Geofex are that the entirety of the switch is now on the *outside* of the enclosure.  If you want a more part of the switch, even an actuator and a tactile switch can take up considerably less room than a mechanical switch, if the room you need is "depth" and not horizontal space.  Removing large items that go into the enclosure depth-wise like that can allow you "stack" multiple boards in the same space with careful planning.

It could be cheaper (but not that much), but I already have a dozen or so dpdt's so I rather use them.

I've been workingo n the CE-2 Tonepad Corrrral chorus, really nice! It's tested on the breadboard and selected to be included. I also drew up a more conceptual diagram of how my multi-fx should look. It helps me get things straight in my head. I like the blender/mixer idea! Here it is:

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9560/diagramofmfxjc8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Looks like your planning is going well.  My recommendation for inclusion of a splitter/mixer has a number of origins in what have traditionally been post-production sounds.

• Sometimes you want clean signal mixed in with processed, and this lets you adjust proportions.
• Sometimes you want to process delay differently than straight.  For instance, perhaps you want a specially EQ-d delay or reverb signal in tandem with a wooly-sounding primary signal.
• Sometimes you want to combine multiple sources/types of modulation, and you need to be able to adjust which sources/types dominate.  For instance, imagine you have a phaser and flanger going in parallel at two different speeds.  Which one do you want to be highlighted, and which one forms the bedrock?
• A splitter-mixer allows you to have momentary punch-in/punch-out of delay.  Say you have a delay pedal in your 2nd path, and the delay-only output feeds your mixer.  If you have switch control over what goes to the input of the delay then you have the ability to keep playing and hear the tail of what is still recirculating in the delay line without adding new content (Line 6 calls this "trails" but there are probably other pedals that do it too).  Alternatively, if you have switch control over the output of the delay line, you can keep playing and instantly "release" what has been building up in the delay line into the mixer.

You are quite right in wanting to be able to keep the two signal paths amenable to either a mono mix OR remaining separate for stereo out.  Both of these are viable and valid.  Just one word of warning, though.  You cannot always guarantee that the phase-coherence is maintained across all pedals.  Some present inverted outputs.  For that reason it is wise to have phase-inversion capability on one of the two mixer inputs.  That also can serve as an interesting tonal tool as well, even when the two paths are in phase with each other.

Quote from: sfr on April 24, 2007, 08:46:05 PM

Which reminds me, I have 25-30 CD4053 chips and a new PCB layout I never finished . . .

It is pretty easy actually, but i was too lazy to make my own PCB... :icon_redface:

Pong : great planning, i hope your wiring will be as neat as your drawing ! keep up the good work

Ignore these guys blabbing on about keeping it simple, I've got a pedalboard of 14 (sometimes up to 18!) effects and it's the one thing I know will work when I bring it over someones house or something. Worst comes to worst I have backup plans but I've never had this thing let me down, at least not yet... I finally like the order and placement of all of my effects, now I just need to finalize a few more PCB's and fix up a few effects (mainly my clean boost and TS808 in one). 1.5A regulated power supply inside the box as well as any other special power supplies and a power strip. I want to get it into some sort of flight case type deal soon but I don't really care right now.
(http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/15756/2005465583156534411_rs.jpg)

Quote from: Cliff Schecht on April 30, 2007, 02:26:22 AM
Ignore these guys blabbing on about keeping it simple, I've got a pedalboard of 14 (sometimes up to 18!) effects and it's the one thing I know will work when I bring it over someones house or something. Worst comes to worst I have backup plans but I've never had this thing let me down, at least not yet... I finally like the order and placement of all of my effects, now I just need to finalize a few more PCB's and fix up a few effects (mainly my clean boost and TS808 in one). 1.5A regulated power supply inside the box as well as any other special power supplies and a power strip. I want to get it into some sort of flight case type deal soon but I don't really care right now.
(http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/15756/2005465583156534411_rs.jpg)

metal master, jews driver, anal... (can't make out the other word)!!!
you're into some creative renaming...!  :icon_eek:  lolll

I believe it's Anal Probe  ;D

Quote from: enigmur on April 30, 2007, 04:06:35 AM
I believe it's Anal Probe  ;D

Yup :). Like I said in another thread my roommate went crazy with the label maker and a few of the things actually stuck. I still like the Jewah (pronounced jew-wah) myself ;D.

I think they key is to have as much fx and flexibility as one can, without making to project too complex.

I've been on a short holiday the last couple of days, without fx, internet, phone. Just my Guild acoustic and friends ;) great time! Getting back I really have to read this thread carefully again, just to get my idea clear in my head again :P

Yesterday I bought 150 pins and 150 "thingies-where-the-pins-fit-in". These pins will be pcb-mounted and the other thingies will be put at the end of the wires. This makes my wiring neat (I hope!) and allows for disconnecting and changing fx orders, since the wires are solidly connected, but not soldered.

I have some problems figuring out how I'll do the Channel A, Channel B, Chanel A+B or Off per effect switch. 4 position switches aren't available everywhere.

update: after 'experimenting' with 3P4T rotary switches, I figured I need 4P3T rotary's to do my channel switching... only downside: I can't put a fx on both channels. It's either A, B or Bypassed. Ah well, the next little bit will probably make up for that.

I've been putting down the input-splitter, which will turn the mono-guitar input into two channels, and the output mixer, which will then be able to blend the two paths together. These schematics are based on the ROG Splitter/Blender. Well, I split the splitter/blender into two sections: Input splitter is pretty much as ROG has it:

(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1152/splitterva8.jpg)
(pin 8 has +9v ofcourse)

The output mixer is a little different though:

(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3967/mixerjx4.jpg)

The ROG splitter/blender is designed to blend the two channels back to mono. I've there for added this:
-a switch which selects between stereo or mono output
-a switch which selects between 'onboard' pot for blend control or external Expression pedal for blend control. I've opted for a footswitches here, since this allows for some nice options of blending. A 'preset' with the potmeter, and complete control over the blend (thus being able to 'select' a channel -100% A is in fact like muting B, etc.). Does remind me of my digitech GNX4, with the 'warp' feature for amp-models :P... however... I'm on the analog road now :P

Do the schematics and ideas look ok to you? I do really appreciate any comment or criticism!

"Where the heck have you been?" you may ask...
"I guess he dropped his too-big-too-ambitious-project...." some1 else may say...

Well NO! Since my new job I've been on the road a lot (including spending three weeks in Ohio, usa...). The little sparetime I had I did use to finish a pedal for some1 else and for a two day recording session with my band.

But the project is still going well. The majority of PCB's have been made, pretty much all parts have been delivered, ideas still coming in my head on how to put all things together. Some pics:

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2829/p1010003ab3.jpg)
Parts...parts...parts

(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3184/p1010004um1.jpg)
Some of the pcb's, drilled and ready to be soldered.

(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9383/p1010005oz9.jpg)
and some previous projects...half canabalized...


I'm still not sure how to wire all fx together. I know I'll be using a 4p3T rotary swith to select channel a or channel b. But I'm not sure how I can use an external (mono) fx-loop with two channels.

progress report.... images say more than words, so the image first:

(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4811/fxpopulatedvw2.jpg)

Above you see most pcb's populated (expcept offboard wiring). The next step includes:
-powersupply (I had one based on MAX1044's, but those are too weak. Now I'm using a laptop powerspupply with extra filtering)
-SHO, TS808 (parts are already on the pic...pcb not yet ;) )
-Channelselection-pcb (Chan A, Chan B, off)
-FX-activation switch-pcb (Mil2 bypass)
-Splitter and Mixer part.

When those things are finished I can start testing and debugging (the above fx have been tested on the breadboard, but not yet on the pcb).

For the Channel selection I will use 4p3T rotary switches. This leaves me with one position ('off') which isn't too usefull (I can swith each fx on/off with a footswitch). It's just that I don't have a good idea what to do with that extra rotary position. I considered mixing chan A+B, but that's too complicated. I thought of using it as a selection to send fx to the fx-loop, but that's also too complicated. Any idea's are welcome... for now I just leave that position empty, so the effect is either on channel A or on channel B.

I have a question about shielding.

I plan on shielding the wooden enclosure (as per Basic Audio's website). Now, if I put the pcb's next to eachother, would they interfer with eachother? Would I need to shield the seperate fx from eachother? Or can I just put them all next to eachother in the shielded wooden enclosure without any probs?

update:

last night I finished designing the PCBs in eagle. The powersupply, the splitter, the blender, the SHO. All have been put down in Eagle. I hope to etch them this weekend. With some luck I can start testing the fx also.

Etches look great!  Keep us posted on the progress!

-tR

those etches look really cool- what clad pcb do you use?

i'm excited to see how this beast turns out. 8)

Thanks for the kind comments! I'll sure keep you posted.

I'm not sure what 'clad' means, but if it refers to the thickness of the copper I used, it is: 35um.

sorry- my bad on the clunky wording.

I was actually interested in what brand of board you use and where you get them.  mine are dull brown and just generally ugly, I want pretty boards like those.

I'm not sure what the brand is. There's "KB" written on the back of the boards.
I get it from a dutch store: http://www.newtone-online.nl/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=595&osCsid=c542edfd6192a2c78de9cb59a237404a

The Dr. Boogey has been added to this project.... (I can handle 6 extra knobs... :P ), a pic of the populated PCB with the SHO next to it:
(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5352/p1010016qd1.jpg)

Thanks to Gaussmarkov for his nice layout. I'm curious to see how this circuit performs noise-wise when put together with so many others circuits in one enclosure... This effect complets my OD/Dist spectrum. I think I'll have everything covered from low OD to High Gain.

The first prototypes of the switches and channel_selectors are finished:

(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8392/p1010009ry6.jpg)
channel selection: 3 positions (middle position unused). Left: channel A, right: Channel B. A led indicates which channel is used.
After checking this one (it works!) I considered it too big. I need like 17 (seventeen!) of these. The pictured version has a width over 5 cm. That's too much. I redesigned it and now it's just a bit wider than the rotary switch (about 3 cm). When using this large number of switches reducing size really pays off! Now I can keep within my previously set size-limits.

(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3917/p1010012gs9.jpg)
FX On/Off switch. This is a Millenium 2 Bypass (thanks to RG), with a bright blue led.

(http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9895/p1010014wr1.jpg)
These are the redesigned pcb's of the channel_selection and the fx on/off swithces (and a unpopulated dr boogey ;) ).... a nice pile of PCB's.

At the time of the pic these where undrilled. Right now they have been drilled.

All parts are getting finished... it's about time to put all the pieces together.

I'll keep you guys and ladies posted!

This is a great project. I`m sure I`m not the only one who has enjoyed charting its progress. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Whew!  I'm glad this project didn't fizzle out and run out of gas, like many of my po' l'il projects!  ((;
Looking fwd to the final build!  Keep up the great work!

-tR

Any updates on this?

Quote from: cheeb on September 30, 2007, 11:53:25 AM
Any updates on this?

Thanks for asking! I encountered some probs on the switches I used, as described in this thread:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=61462.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=61462.0)

Seems the problem has been identified and now I can start finishing and testing the switches.

I've also run in to some probs with my powersupply. I made my own, which was fed with a Laptop psu. I don't really understand why, but it wasn't stable. Putting the pt80 on it caused the output voltage to drop like 4V...that made it unusable....weird, since it should be able to handle 16V up to 3 amps...

So I decided to build my own PSU, with transformers and stuff. I have no experience with these things, so I needed to read up on them. I have ordered the parts (expected to have them yesterday....guess I have to be more patient). 2x18v AC, 4x9V AC, which will be filtered and rectified to 2x 18V DC, 3x9V DC and 1x -9V DC. One 9V group will be dedicated to the LEDS of the switches and channel selectors. I hope this helps in keeping pops and stuff away from the effects-line.

I've been able to test the PT80 and it worked. Really nice delay, recommended build!

I hope to be able to report some more progress and pics in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned ;)

Pong, 18 november in Almere, een meeting met een 100tal andere gitaarmaniakken uit de lage landen. zegt het je niets?
www.gitaarnet.nl forums maar eens bekijken ;) je ding zou er veel aandacht krijgen

Quote from: ponq on September 30, 2007, 12:54:08 PM
So I decided to build my own PSU, with transformers and stuff. I have no experience with these things, so I needed to read up on them. I have ordered the parts (expected to have them yesterday....guess I have to be more patient). 2x18v AC, 4x9V AC, which will be filtered and rectified to 2x 18V DC, 3x9V DC and 1x -9V DC. One 9V group will be dedicated to the LEDS of the switches and channel selectors. I hope this helps in keeping pops and stuff away from the effects-line.

Still sounds awesome, man. You should be really proud of it after putting this much into it. I can't wait until it's finished.

Quote from: Valoosj on September 30, 2007, 03:52:32 PM
Pong, 18 november in Almere, een meeting met een 100tal andere gitaarmaniakken uit de lage landen. zegt het je niets?
www.gitaarnet.nl forums maar eens bekijken ;) je ding zou er veel aandacht krijgen

Hi Valoosj. Yeah, I do know about the GN-meeting (I'm also 'ponq' at GN). Sounds like a good idea...when it's finished. I hope it will be finished, but I'm picky about the quality of the unit. It has to be good. My first plans where to have it finished early June, so I could use it during our studiorecording sessions.... I dind't make that... :P So we will see.

Quote from: cheeb on September 30, 2007, 07:35:02 PM
Still sounds awesome, man. You should be really proud of it after putting this much into it. I can't wait until it's finished.

Thanks Cheeb!

I had no idea  ;D

Have you seen my G&L guitar? I finished it in the midst of my finals. 4 months overdue, and bad exam results due to this  :P

Still happy with her though. I'm bringing her along. Hope to see your pedalboard there as well. It's looking good. But I would go for a plexi top as mentioned before

(update)

While listening to the amazing new Radiohead record "In Rainbows" I finished the footswitches:

(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3333/p1010025uq2.jpg)
(the 3 in front have the LEDs in, the others not. Because I don't know the thickness of the enclosure-wood yet, I don't know how tall the LEDs will need to be. That's why the haven't been soldered in place yet.)

Quite a bunch he!  :icon_wink: 16 in total. I have some 3PDT's that will be used to for other switching options. The DPDT's are meant to be used to switch the effects and fx-loops on/off.

All 16 have been tested and work! RG's bypass for the win! Took me some troubleshooting before I got them all to work (some BS170's died in the process...).

Next up are the Channel Selection rotary switches. Another 16 or so of them. A bit more soldering work, less debugging. After that the powersupply. When that's finished I can work on the layout of the fx, switches and wires.

Over three thousand five hundred views....unbelievable!  :icon_redface: :icon_redface:

Thanks to the board for showing that much interest in this project. It's really encouraging to keep going on.

Sadly can't do much this weekend (family weekend...), but I got to half way with the rotary switches.

stay tuned ;)

Quote from: ponq on September 30, 2007, 12:54:08 PM
I've also run in to some probs with my powersupply. I made my own, which was fed with a Laptop psu. I don't really understand why, but it wasn't stable.

Quote from: R.G. on April 02, 2007, 11:01:35 AM

Quote from: R.G.Laptop power supplies are NOT designed to supply clean power to audio pedals.

Switching style power supplies are intended to provide a lot of power, usually to digital circuits which don't care if there's 5-10% ripple on the power supply. Audio circuits with no power supply rejection will sing at the power supply ripple frequency, and may heterodyne the ripple back down into the audio band if the ripple is above audio.

I was aware of that. The Laptop PSU was not connected directly to the FX, but via a filtering circuit to take care of the ripples. The problem was not (as far as I can see) ripples, but a sudden loss of Voltage.

Quote from: ponq on October 18, 2007, 04:24:35 AM
I was aware of that. The Laptop PSU was not connected directly to the FX, but via a filtering circuit to take care of the ripples. The problem was not (as far as I can see) ripples, but a sudden loss of Voltage.

Was the laptop PSU running directly through the filtering circuit, then straight to your pedals? The filtering circuit could have been drawing a lot of current (as capacitors tend to do when you first turn the power on) and causing all sorts of problems. Did you try running it into a regulator, then onto the circuit?

I ran it into a big cap 470 uF IIRC and a 100 ohm resistor. Then I had several 78l12's and 78l09's. So after those regulators there came another cap (smaller, like 47 uF) and then it went to an effect.

Any updates on this project?

I'm looking forward to the weekend, hopefully I can make some progress...

I've been struggling with a pos ground FuzzFace. It seems the prob is solved now, but since my PSU isn't finished yet, I can't tell for sure.

Pong, get some MAX1044 IC's. I use them all the time when I'm building fuzz faces! They can covert your +9V to -9V, so you can run everything on the same PSU if it isn't isolated. Really usefull if you are making a FF for a friend.

Kind regards, Jake

Thanks for the tip. My initial PSU for this project included MAX1044's, but the couldn't supply the current I needed  (I used them also as a voltage doubler to get 18V).

For a single FF the would indeed suffice. But since I also want to have an ps ground output for the eventual external pos ground fx, I can't use a MAX1044 in this project.

I've made some cables to my power supply, with the MAX1044 circuit built into them, in a tiny plastic box. That way I can just connect a cable to almost any kind of power supply and get +18V or -9V.

That might be an idea.

Kind regards, Jake

that's a really cool idea!

The LT1054 have more ouput current (100ma) and are pin to pin compatible with max1044.

stephanovitch: Thanks for the tip. I couldn't locate a supplier in the Netherlands for that one.

Today I worked some on the power supply. Here's the schematic:

(http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9885/psver3schematicym3.png)

Notes:
-on the left the mains are connected (230v).
-The two secondaries will (ofcourse) get their own ground. GND of the first secondary is not connected to GND of the 2nd secondary.

The AC is being filtered before entering the transformer.
100R+100nF is for some filtering. 1000uF to prevent ripples.

My AC connector has 3 pins. the 3rd is for ground. But, where do I connect that pin to in this project? Should it be connected to the enclosure (assume a metal layer on the wood)?

Do you see any errors or ways to improve the filtering of this circuit?

I think that this power supply schematics is more easy and classic:
http://www.neufgiga.com/index.php?m=c9ae77e8&a=7d397569&share=LNK14174723a743cfac8
What do you think about it?

looks like the bipolar design at ggg.

I'll be using the 7809 and 7909 too, for my positive ground source. But in this case I want two +9V outputs, instead of a +9 and -9V output.

However, basicly the schematics are the same, mine has a little added filtering. Right?

Oups, sorry  I haven't seen that is two 7809 :icon_redface:

no problem. Your reply got me thinking anyway! I think if I implement the bipolar thing I can add another isolated output.

That will give me 4 isolated +9v outputs and 1 isolated -9V output. I also will have an isolated 15V output (for the pt80 and neovibe).

Merci beaucoup for thinking with me ;)

Thanks,
If your PCB have no ground plane, you can connect grounds to enclosure at the same point (or metal shield for wood box )

PCBs made this weekend. I'll upload some pics later today.

Populated the PS pcbs tonite.

Left to right: 9V, 18V, 9V. Each unit has two isolated and filtered outputs.
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7131/p1010028cv9.jpg)

A topview of the bridgerectifier, filtering etc:
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4197/p1010029da5.jpg)

copperside shot, not my cleanest solderjob, but no shorts and it looks messier than it is...:
(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9366/p1010030zf4.jpg)


Next I have to put these in an enclosure. Is it advisable to put a metal encloser around these boards to isolate them from the rest of the multi-fx?

An overview of all things prepared:

(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/170/p1010032ic3.jpg)


...and there's nothing wrong with one cow kissing another cow!

maybe you could show each effect separatly, with an identification?

Check reply #35 of this thread. The Dr Boogey is not on that pic yet, but all the other fx are the same I think.

So I ripped an old pc-psu apart... the enclosure seems quite useful  :icon_cool:

Still in the 'idea'-stage ofcourse...

(http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/282/p1010034np6.jpg)

and I'll modify the height so my transformers just fit:

(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/881/p1010035vi9.jpg)

And I'll put a piece of plexi at the bottom of this enclosure and the PCBs to prevent shorts.

What do you say? If it works for a pc it can work for my multi-fx unit too... I guess...  ;D

I did the same thing with a PC power supply and regulated pedal power.  It works very well.

The last couple of weeks I've spent some time on the Powersupply. As said, it was my first time working with transformers etc, so it took me some time to figure out why it wasn't working as designed (since, ofcourse, it didn't work at first shot....). One transformer got hot, I had weird voltages on the outputs of the voltage regulators and a resistor got smoked....

The transformer getting hot was caused by a short. I thought I checked for shorts before assembling the PS, but must have overlooked one trace. The transformer didn't get hot anymore. I was worried I may have damaged something, but it all seemed to work. However, still I got weird voltages out of the regulators.

So I checked everything again. It's just a few parts...so it should be easy to spot my mistake...and it was... the mistake is proof that I'm still a n00b :P Instead of putting 100Ohm resistors in the filter-section....i used 100K Ohm resistors... No wonder I got weird voltages.

Swapped them out, put real 100 Ohm resistors back...fired it up...and voila! I got a nice 8.9V and 17.9V out of my regulators. Woohooo! But then....

I had the PS flipped upside down, so I could see the traces of the PCBs. Suddenly I saw smoke coming from below... Quickly I disconnected the powercable, flipped the PS over and checked for burning parts...I didn't see anything. Touched the transformers....not hot...touched the regulators...not hot. What's going on? I reconnected the powercable... after a couple of seconds...smoke! Then I saw where it was coming from... one of the freshly installed 100 Ohm resistors was really burning itself up in smoke. This got me wondering... Why is only 1 of the resistors burning? I have 5 of them all in almost equal positions... I removed the burned resistor, put a new one in. Fired it up...no smoke. Good voltages, no heat... Must have been my first bad resistor ;)  (Do you remember your first bad resistor? ;) )

Left it powerd on for an hour or so, just to check if it got hot...no problem here, it al stays very cool. Tested it with my PT-80, got a little voltage drop (not sure why) but the delay sounded very good. Still the Pwr Supply stayed very cool.

After these tests I boxed it up in the metal PC-PSU enclosure, held together with glue... No pics at this moment, but I'm sure they'll come.

I finally was able to start finishing my Neovibe (I needed the PwrSupply for that). Hopefully I can finish the vibe this weekend.

On a sidenote: My dad (who among other jobs works at a college) got me oscilloscope, a new one! I dropped him a line a couple of weeks ago, asking if he knew where to get a used, old scope. Last weekend we had a family-come-together and there he told me he got a new one... So now I have a brand new oscilloscope and also a much better DMM. I have no clue how to work with a oscilliscope yet :P but I'm sure I'll figure that out in the coming weeks/months. Tips and tricks, tutorials and websites are welcome

Danger Danger    High Voltage    ;D

Cool to know that you're still working on it.
What the hell does an oscillope do?


(I received news from digikey, the chips are on their way. So soon I will start on the payback)

Chips on their way, Cool!

An oscilloscope is a tool with which you can measure voltages over time (among other things, if I understood correctly). Mine looks like:
(http://www.artisan-scientific.com/itemimages/Instek_GOS_635G_View1.jpg)

And this is what my desk looks like now (with the unfinished PwrSupply):

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6769/p1010036bv2.jpg)

On the right side (between my solderstation and my laptop) you can see my new DMM. Really nice big screen and better accuracy!

Chips have just arrived :D
I'll go to the electonics store this afternoon, (leaving in 3 minutes :D) and get the others as well.
There is a sticker on the package warning for electrostatics and stuff. Any precaucionary advice?

I'll send them all in a little package, but I don't want to kill the ICs due to electrostatics, so I'll wait before I open them until I know how to do this safely.

discharge yourself by touching a radiator.

No need for big caution though...It's a normal warning.

when you fired up your ps to test it, did you just have your dmm across the output?

or did you have some load circuit across the output?

I tested the 18V outputs with the PT-80 as load.

The 9V outputs have been tested unloaded or with just a LED+limiting resistor.

Should I test it with load?

i was asking because i am about to build and test a traffo/diode bridge/rectifier psu for an amp, and i didint knwo if i should test it without a load or not.

on one hand im not sure if its good for the psu to have no load, and on the other i dont want to "test" the psu on a circuit.

I think it is best to test the PSU with a load. I'm sure there's an easy way to simulate a load on the PSU. What about a big resistor to ground from the +-side? E.g. 1-10M?

yeah, what wattage though?

well.... today a second resistor (100 Ohm, 1/4 Watt) burnen itself up. Again the resistor at the 18V part. I guess 1/4 Watt just isn't enough for this position. I either remove the resistors or get higher Watt resistors. Any tips?

Why don't you just step it up to a 1/2W?

That's indeed what I'm gonna do. I just wanna make sure 1/2 Watt is enough (I guess it's safer to get 1 Watt or even 2 Watt resistors, just to be sure).

Well, it turned out that I had to ditch the 100Ohm resistor all together. PS Design error on my side, solved by help of this board! (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=63052.0) Right now I use the PS for debugging the NeoVibe and other fx. This ofcourse is also a test for the PS. I need to add some heatsinks, since the regulators do get hot now that the PS is working correctly.

I'm glad it is working, because after burning up three resistors and experience a voltage drop which I didn't understand, I was close at throwing my 3rd PS-design out of the window. Finally it's looking good!

I also ordered some knobs from a hong kong supplier, to see if the fit my shafts (See shaft-diameter discussion here (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=62998.0)). So you see, some work on the external-side of this project is also being done!

I'll keep you posted. Back to neovibe debugging... (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=63076.0)

Would like to do a quick shout out for the Original threadstarter.

Keep it going dude! I really think you're doing a great job!
Can't wait to see the finished product as much as you do!

Coxter: Thanks! Much appreciated! Sometimes it's hard when things don't work...but everytime I get something to work it feels like small victory!

I just put in an order at Smallbear. I wanted to buy RG's PCB book (both to learn from him and as a token of my appreciation of him). But, well... as you probably recognize...after a couple of minutes your cart has way more items than the single item you came for...

I saw these nice push-pull pots at Smallbear. I have ordered a bunch of them, and plan to use them as switches for eg clipping diodes in the Rat en TS, chorus/vibe switch in the NeoVibe. Looks nice and it's a real space saver for my crowded project!

The NeoVibe is up and running! Love this effect. From very subtle to freaking wobbling! I'm glad this one works out!
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7495/p1010046xm5.jpg)

is that a bulb with 4 ldrs around it? Thats so diy i love it!

Quote from: scaesic on November 30, 2007, 01:58:14 PM
is that a bulb with 4 ldrs around it? Thats so diy i love it!

Yup  ;D

Two pics of the sample knobs I ordered via Ebay from Hong Kong. They arrived last weekend:

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4841/p1010093dw5.jpg)

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3016/p1010094jb4.jpg)

I really like the dome knobs best. They're nicer and smaller (and more expensive...). Downside is they don't have an indicator on top, so you can't tell what setting they are at. Quite easily solved with a small dot of (reflective) paint, I guess.

Browsing the Hong Kong shop I saw another knob-type quite like the dome knob above, but quite a bit cheaper. I ordered a couple to evaluate. Paypal wants to check my account, so payment is delayed a couple of days. So will be the delivery. I expect them end of this month. Once received and reviewed I think I can decide on which knobs I want and order them (~50-60 knobs).

Work on the fx has been delayed a bit due to some testing of the Payback 1.1.

Stay tuned!

You could also go to an arts and crafts store, and buy some of those stick on circles. They should come in all sizes...

How is that payback coming along? did you find out any mistakes?

Quote from: Valoosj on December 05, 2007, 04:46:13 AM
You could also go to an arts and crafts store, and buy some of those stick on circles. They should come in all sizes...

I'm not sure what you mean with this? I need a picture of it I guess  ;D

Quote from: Valoosj on December 05, 2007, 04:46:13 AM
How is that payback coming along? did you find out any mistakes?

I've been playing around with it last night, but I still have some unanswered questions posted in the Payback thrread (regarding the CD4093 and the SW3). Probably something I'm doing wrong, but as it is now the sound quality is so bad that it is hardly 'lo-fi', more like 'distorted-fi'. I have it on my breadboard, so I can continue with troubleshooting easily, when I get some hints.

kleine gekleurde cirkels die je kan plakken
;)

Ah ok, ik snap t!  ;D  (I got it)

Tiny update:

I received my push-pull potmeters from Steve (SmallBear Elec) and replaced the volume-pot and the chorus/vibe switch on my neovibe. It works like a charm. Next these push-pull pots will be used in the TS808 and the RAT to incorporate some mods (diodes/leds etc), without eating up precious pedalboard space!

I've uploaded some soundclips of (semi)finished FX here:
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/toomuchgear/

Not the best playing, but you get an idea of how the effects sound. I've made clips of:
-CE-2 Chorus
-PT-80 Delay
-Dr. Boogey
-RAT
-NeoVibe

I made the Dr Boogey and dropped the tonestack. I put a SWTC2 (see AMZ) in place and it works really wel.

Recording has been done quickly with my onboard soundcard. No added fx like reverb:
-Humbuckers equipped guitar -> DIY effect -> Vox AC30 cc1 Topboost+normal channel blend, a touch of reverb from the AC30 -> SM58 (clone) -> Behringer mixer -> Onboard PC soundcard -> Linux simple recording stuff (didn't have time to setup Adour yet)
The effects are 'unboxed', but still there is hardly any noise.

Man, all those clips are really nice, especially the modulation effects! Congrats!

WOW all those effects sound really nice!  Like you said very little noise and the chorus is very airy.  GREAT JOB!  :D
Keep up the great work!
I can't wait until the whole thing is done!

-tR

Thanks for the kind responses!

The Dr Boogey seems to have changed overnight. I didn't change anything, but it's not good anymore. I'll have to rebias it this weekend.

I've finished the DOD250. It's a really nice little OD/Distortion. I like it a lot!

(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9863/p1010097uw4.jpg)

You can listen to a clip overhere:
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/toomuchgear/
the noise you hear in the background is caused by the lack of proper grounding in my apartment

And an overview of the progress:
green = done (or 95% done, just some finetuning needed)
blue = 75% done, needs wiring, pots, some small stuff. Can be done in an evening
red = Not finished, not started, problems, parts, new ideas...

Booster
Super Hard On
RoG Omega

Fuzz
Big Muff
Fuzz Face

Overdrive
Tubescreamer 808
DOD250

Distortion
Dr Boogey
RAT
boohteek! Rock box Made a new PCB for this one

Modulation
Neovibe
CE-2 Chorus
Phase 90
Tremolo

Delay
PT80
New idea for a project based on the pt2395

Other stuff
Powersupply
Footswitches
Channel Switches
Splitter
Blender
Expression pedal
Internal Wiring
FX-loops and tuner out
Enclosure

It's about time for an update, I guess.

I've been really busy in between, but did find some time this weekend to make a PCB and populate it for the MI Audio Crunchbox.

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9932/p1010108xi7.jpg)

Nice sounding pedal!

Keep going man!

This project is so ambitious and awesome! It is a real inspiration for a beginner such as myself :D

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on January 23, 2008, 03:52:34 AM
It's about time for an update, I guess.

I've been really busy in between, but did find some time this weekend to make a PCB and populate it for the MI Audio Crunchbox.

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9932/p1010108xi7.jpg)

Nice sounding pedal!

Thats not even on the list!

Haha, yeah, that's one of my problems and one of the main reasons to NOT start on an multi-fx project ;) I stumbled upon the schematic a couple of months ago and breadboarded it. Didn;t sound nice at all. Recently tried it again, sounded much better. I decided to make a pcb for it and build it. It will probably end up on my board, but I'm not sure yet. Box of Rock, Dr Boogey, RAT, Big Muff, Crunchbox...that's a lot of dirt-pedals!

Anyways, just poppin in to say the project is still alive, but I took some time of the project to build some projects for others. I also ordered some tubes.... Wouldn't it be awesome to get some tube-OD on this board?    ;D ;D

And I tried out mosfet-clippers on the TS808. Love it. Mucht better than the LED-clippers. I guess I drop the LEDs for the mosfets.

i've heard the soundclips for payback.

theyre really distorted. is the normal?

Some distortion, yeah. It's lofi. But the distortion you hear on my clips is also caused by me setting the rec and playback levels to high. At that time I didn't realize that the playback level also played a part in recording. Rolling back the playback level and the rec level will get much cleaner recordings. Valoosj is building one, so he can confirm. Also, check out zvex lofi loopjunky soundclips, it sounds similar.

I'm just waiting for the parts. How is your coming? Or are you waiting for me to confirm my pcb?  ;D

Mine has been put on the 'maybe-I'll-build-it-one-day-but-not-next-week'-list  :icon_mrgreen:

Some photo-updates:

A Tonepad Big Muff Pi:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2486/p1010111fm9.jpg)

A booooteeeeck Rock Box:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9672/p1010115pt4.jpg)

The TS808 with pushpull pots for the clipping options:
(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/155/p1010124jd7.jpg)
still with ledclippers here, will be replaced with mosfets. Btw, the pots are from Smallbear. Accidently they send me 'normal' pots. One 1 email to them and they fixed it. Send me the pushpullpots right away and I could keep the 'wrong' pots. Great service!

The RunOffGroove Omega:
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5839/p1010127ue1.jpg)
Range, Gain and Volume control. Makes it a very very verstatile booster

And a tonepad P90:
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2007/p1010133yv1.jpg)
I had to drop the zener to get this one to phase. It is working nicely now without a zener.


And....did I already show this? A bunch of parts from futurelec:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6733/p1010122sj5.jpg)
the order started as a simple 'I need some IC's for my delay-project'...it ended up with 'let's by a bunch of value packs because you never know when you need those parts....stockpiling is good! ...but I haven't found the time yet to work on the delayproject sadly...

Any updates?

Yeah, it's been a while... but, the last effect has been made and tested. I built the Tremulus Lune, a really nice versatile trem.

Next step should be connecting all the fx and switches in a wooden dummy enclosure. This allows me to see if it will fit, and will probably pop up some issues with noise etc.

The last step is getting closer, but it is also the hardest step. Starting something is way more easy than finishing it...

I cut a piece of wood and placed the most obvious parts on it. The board is 55cmx35cm. What do you think about the spacing?

(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2606/p1010188od4.jpg)

(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6411/p1010190db6.jpg)

Three rows of footswitches for the fx and fx-loops. A row of Channel Selectors to put a FX in either channel A or channel B. Above that the knobs of the fx.

The board will be tilted so the bottom row of footswitches is lower than the 3rd row.

The spacing looks alright as long as the board is tilted enough. The wood looks a little thin though. Are you going to have supports built underneath? I'd be worried about stomping too hard on the middle footswitches if the wood was too thin.

My board is about the same length as yours, but slightly less wide, i'm using shelving wood (pine) I bought from Ikea.

The wood is indeed pretty thin. I'm not sure how it will hold without support, but I do plan to build a little frame inside the enclosure to support the wood.

However this is still 'practice-wood', not the wood for the final enclosure.

I think the switches are too close to each other.
My pedaltrain pedalboard is 60x32cm, so I tried to imagine all your footswitches on a similar area, and it would be too close to each other for me, even when tilted.....

Any chance you can:
-get a picture here of your pedalboard (helps me visualize)?
-measure the (average) distance between footswitches?

thnx!

From what I can see, spreading them more up and down the board would help alot.

I've just drilled the holes for the footswitches and channel selectors. Put a couple of switches in place and tested them. No problems! I've always only touched the right switch, not even close to hitting the wrong switch by accident.

The rows are built up like this:

1st row, starts 4 cm from the bottom. Switches are placed 9cm apart.
2nd row starts 6 cm above the first row. Switches are moved 4.5cm to the left.
3rd row starts 6cm above 2nd row. Switches start aligned to the first row.

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on May 14, 2008, 04:01:58 AM

The last step is getting closer, but it is also the hardest step. Starting something is way more easy than finishing it...

Totally agree.

I planned to completely over-hall my park practice amp.

Built the pre-amp.

Built the tonestack.

Built the cabinet.

Painted and drilled the faceplate.

Installed a new guitar voiced speaker

Built 90% of the power amp

Built 90% of the power supply.

Finding the last 6 hours of man hours to put the circuits together and finish the last two circuits has taken me about 9 months....

Seeing this thread move on is almost enough to spur me on though. As i started my project about the same time i first read this thread.

Haha, thanks for the encouragement ;)

Let's make a deal. Whoever finishes first gets a beer from the other!

You've a big advantage over me...I need more than 'just' 6 hours to finish this project...  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on May 19, 2008, 04:15:08 AM
Haha, thanks for the encouragement ;)

Let's make a deal. Whoever finishes first gets a beer from the other!

You've a big advantage over me...I need more than 'just' 6 hours to finish this project...  :icon_mrgreen:

hah, agreed, now then, when will i set those 6 hours aside...

It's been a while, but hey! there is some progress to report!

I've drilled most of the holes in the top and made sides to the enclosure:
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4518/image065ce2.jpg)

Made the connection stronger with pieces of aluminium and 'construction glue":
(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/9315/image071vi0.jpg)

Here it is in front om my VOX AC30 CC1:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/438/image070zz0.jpg)

I've also made some additional PCB's. A GGG Modable Wah, a FuzzFace-Tonebender (Face-Bender IIRC by AC). And a speakersim-into-condor-into-ruby, which will be used as an headphone amp. That one is populated and tested, but needs debugging.
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3651/image069fy8.jpg)

And I got myself a Whipple inductor for the modable wah:
(http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8026/image072gy4.jpg)

Stay tuned.... more to come in a couple of minutes... :D :D :D

IT IS ALIVE!!
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6039/image079oj2.jpg)
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7400/image080xq7.jpg)
(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1332/image077qp5.jpg)

A very basic test, just one effect and one channel (no splitting yet)... but it works!

scaesic: found your six hours already? I'm catching up mate ;)

Keep up the great work!  We're rooting for you!   :D

-bK

looks really good, keep up the work.

1 comment and 1 question.

Comment: Kinda surprised by the lack of compressor. Maybe you don't ever use one, but, was just surprised.

Question: When the projects done, what will be the total cost in parts?

oooh...one more question. When your finished, how long do you estimate it will be until you have to redesign it just to add that one effect you forgot to put in?

You are going to have to build some bracing under that board. Your wood is WAY too thin so without bracing it is going to crack the first time you getstomp crazy. Maybe even some flat aluminum slats...

Quote from: tranceracer on August 24, 2008, 09:46:56 PM
Keep up the great work!  We're rooting for you!   :D
-bK

Thanks! It's really motivating to actually see some LEDs light up in that piece of wood ;)

Quote from: Sir_Ian on August 25, 2008, 01:45:42 AM
looks really good, keep up the work.

1 comment and 1 question.

Comment: Kinda surprised by the lack of compressor. Maybe you don't ever use one, but, was just surprised.

Question: When the projects done, what will be the total cost in parts?

oooh...one more question. When your finished, how long do you estimate it will be until you have to redesign it just to add that one effect you forgot to put in?

About the comp. I've build the Ross compressor, but was far from impressed. I've also owned a TC Electronics compressor, but sold it. I guess I'm not really a comp guy.
Total costs... I honestly don't know. When it is finished I'll sit down and try to add up all the costs...but for know...just a rough estimate: ~$600 USD And that's just parts...
And your last question: good question! I know I won't stop building effects once this project is finished...so yeah... I'll run into an effect which I really have to have...no prob... I plan to include 3 FX-loops in this project. So, single effects can be quite easily added into the fx loop. The loops will have the ability to be put on either channel (just like the other fx) and can be (de)activated with one of the footswitches on the board.
Powersupply for the fxloops will also be available from this unit.

Quote from: Barcode80 on August 25, 2008, 02:18:12 AM
You are going to have to build some bracing under that board. Your wood is WAY too thin so without bracing it is going to crack the first time you getstomp crazy. Maybe even some flat aluminum slats...

True. Near the sides and near the front it is strong enough. In the middle it's like walking on eggs. However, it will get some additional bracing. And, from what I've seen and felt, I think with two/three 'supports' (from the top panel to the bottom) it will be strong enough for normal stomping. All switches are DPDT, so they switch quite smoothly.

Hey A, that board looks killer!

Regarding the supports, think about placing a lot of supports that you can fasten the PCB's to. That way you can unscrew the bottom-plate, and have the PCB's fastened to the supports for easy debugging. IF the board is tall enough, that is.

Jake

Thanks Jake!

Fastening the PCB's is one of the the things I've been thinking a lot about lately. Most of the PCB's are small enough to be placed vertically. So, most likely I'll end up with metal/alu supports with 'holes' in it for screws. To these I can fasten the PCB's.

I'm also considering several options to keep the wiring tidy. One is to use multi-core-cables where possible.

QuoteAnd your last question: good question! I know I won't stop building effects once this project is finished...so yeah... I'll run into an effect which I really have to have...no prob... I plan to include 3 FX-loops in this project. So, single effects can be quite easily added into the fx loop. The loops will have the ability to be put on either channel (just like the other fx) and can be (de)activated with one of the footswitches on the board.
Powersupply for the fxloops will also be available from this unit.

Wow, you thought of everything....way cool. Well, maybe one suggestion. Since you know you will "eventually" have external effects out of this board, maybe you would want to build a recessed shelf coming off the back so that your extra effects are visible and you can easily change knobs on them and what not. I guess my idea would be for the back shelf to be the height of a stompbox Lower than the top of the back of your board, that way the extra pedal's knobs sit at roughly the same height as the knobs on your mammoth pedalboard. just an idea....but you seem to already have a great masterplan, so you've probably thought of this already.

Well, I haven't thought about that :D I just wanted to use normal patchkabels and put the fx-in-the-loops behind the 'mammoth' on the ground. Space-permitting, your idea makes sense. Something to keep in mind if I see that I use additional effects a lot in the future.

'Product placing'... or... 'spaghetti incident'...
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3434/image083jx4.jpg)
(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/496/image084bx1.jpg)
This is a picture of all effects that (as of now) will be put inside the enclosure. No footswitches or channel_selectors yet. It looks like a mess, and yup, it is a mess. Helps me trying to figure out how I can best organize the guts... Most of the wires are still too long, they will be shortened and grouped.

I think I'll add supports in the area where now the pcb's lay. This allows for the pcb's to be fastened vertically (except for the Neovibe and the PT80...those are too big).

The powersupply as I have it now doesn't fit at all. So that has to be redesigned.

While searching in my local DIY-store for the right 'supports' for the PCB's I ran into some metal washers. I think it will look cool, but more importantly, it will make the connection between the wooden enclosure and the stompswitches much stronger. I also found a piece of wood that I will use for the supports. It has a small side, here I will secure the PCB to with a screw, and a bigger part which gives extra support.
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9885/image091ug5.jpg)


And I decided to already do the shielding. Initially I wanted to figure out all the wiring etc...but I thought 'well, I need to do the shielding anyway, no matter how I lay out the wires...'. I used two sheets of alu-foil. And, it seems to work. I have/cannot test its shielding capabilities yet, but my DMM shows that the foil is connect to itself from every corner of the board.

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8822/image090jn4.jpg)

Nice project.

But to be honest, you have put so much work into it; and now you just use a not-so-pretty enclosure.
And if you really want to do it in wood; use some thicker. Now it doesn't look nice, but cheap.

But still, nice work!

Hoi Jan,

Thanks for your comment. The wood indeed isn't top notch at the moment. But remember, the wood I now use is 'test-wood'. Just to practice my skills.

There are four options for finishing the enclosure:
1) I keep using this wood as it is (very unlikely)
2) I keep using this wood but go into lengths to sand and coat it (viable option).
3) I keep using this wood, but will use thin sheets of veneer (likely option).
4) I redo the enclosure and start with good looking quality wood (expensive and time consuming option, not likely to be honest).

Each option has its pros and cons, but for now the main focus is not on 'the looks' but on getting this beasty to work.

Oh, why should I use thicker wood? If this wood is strong enough, than why take the heavier, thicker wood?

Quote from: carrejans on August 30, 2008, 12:13:24 PM
Nice project.

But to be honest, you have put so much work into it; and now you just use a not-so-pretty enclosure.
And if you really want to do it in wood; use some thicker. Now it doesn't look nice, but cheap.

But still, nice work!

Another idea to make the top look nice is to use thin aluminum or steel sheet metal to cover the wood.  You can paint and place labels on the sheet metal.  This would double as shielding for the tip of the multi effect box.

Quote from: tranceracer on August 30, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
Another idea to make the top look nice is to use thin aluminum or steel sheet metal to cover the wood.  You can paint and place labels on the sheet metal.  This would double as shielding for the tip of the multi effect box.

...Correction:  This would double as sheilding for the TOP of the multi effect box.

  Here's my take.
  Putting aesthetics aside, partly because I can't really see the corners etc.
  I've seen uglier under my foot, not to worry, at this point it looks like prototype.
  What looks to be of possible concern is when stomping, the top board will bop up and down when the switch catch trips, it's better if this type of motion is reduced...of course depends on the wiring, but it ~invites noises or problems to be jostled repeatedly in the same way.
  It looks as though there's room for hardwood struts [or metal] to span the wide dimension, along/between the 2nd and 3rd row of [looks like switch holes] the 'checkerboard' spaced holes. If made sort of thick but almost as deep as the bottom allows, signifigant stiffening is possible. Fitting this strut to touch the top and bottom helps a thin top survive supporting greater weight.
  I have faith that if you believe it is worthy of your needs, it is or will be made to be.
  At any rate, it looks like the inertail energies of flexing and popping when switching may be directly transferred to the wiring and switching.
  That represents a great amount of work !
  I'm working on a multi effects panel unit, a much more 'humble' approach though, it is an attempt mostly to replicate my effects PB while eliminating about 84% of it's jacks and patch cables :-[.
 

Thanks for thinking with me here!

@Tranceracer: Though I set off to build a wooden enclosure for this multi-fx, I have considered using metat/alu-sheets. Some look really really nice, I agree. But, I've decided some time ago to stick to wood. Covering the wood with anything but (semi)transparant coating is really not an option.

@Pete: Ok, you have a point there. I do plan to use supports around the switches. I will give it some more attention based on your explanation.

I do think the enclosure will turn out to be strong enough for 'normal' use, but well.... there's only one way to find that out ;)

Do you have topic for your Multi-fx unit? I'd like to see it (or the plans).

Keep up the great work!

Auke,

I myself am tackling a similar project. I am building a cornish style board like David Gilmours. It has been a LONG, hard, expensive project!!! It seems that nothing goes quite as planned, but when you figure it out, it is very rewarding.

The first version of my project, I hastily built the enclosure by myself and it looked so so, and I went with it, but never loved it. I ended up ditching the entire enclosure about 3/4 of the way through and starting from scratch! I am glad I did, i got a craftsman to build the new one, and it looks perfect.

I will tell you that grounding is your biggest enemy! I have Ac and DC powered pedals so its definitely a challenge to eliminate the noise. I think I am almost there. I will post a thread of my board so ya'll can all see. Anyways, good luck! And if you have any questions I may have already figured out the answers to regarding the multi box, shoot me an email:
sjaltenb@olemiss.edu

I will tell you, your best friends are Heat shrink tubing and wire ties and shielded cable. There is not a single wire that is not shielded (except pots) and not only shielded, but the shield is grounded to the main ground. Its a pain, but it will do wonders, i promise!

Hi Sjaltenb,

Thanks for sharing! I saw your board and as I said, very impressive. It seems we both have our own challenges. I'm not working with AC to feed the pedals (just 9V DC and 18V DC). My current challenge is how to do the wiring....in a tidy fashion. Last night I've just been 'staring' at the board for too long. Laying down some wires, imagining the other wires... trying different routes. Considering different types of wire.

The way I designed the switches, fx-pcbs and channel_selectors over a year ago, now dictates for a big deal how the wires will run. As you see, a signal goes into the Channel Selector. The Channel Selector (if the FX is selected) sends the signal to the stompswitch (all the way down....over 15 cm avg). The stompswitch sends the signal to the fx-pcb (which is about ~10cm up). Next the output of the fx goes back to the stompswitch. And then finally the stompswitch returns the signal to the Channel_Selector.

And so it goes for all 17 effects.

My approach thus far has been:
-reading a lot on this board and other boards
-thinking, writing, drawing and posting to receive (valuable!) feedback
-adapting my ideas
-trial and error. I just try and see how it works out.

There are so many ways to do the wiring, and there are some many issues that can pop up... but at the other hand, why not just try and see how it works out? With so many variables it will be very hard to predict how it will turn out (sound/noise wise).

Got myself some 'telephone' cable for a couple of euro's. It has 4 signal wires in one cable, so this could fit very well between the footswitches and the channel_selectors.

I'm not sure if I can expect problems with high-gain effects (Boogey, Box of Rock). But if so, I can use shielded wires for these effects. The other effects (simple boosters, modulation) should cause no problems.

  That is a great deal of equipment.
  You've done what looks like a great job creating and debugging and tweeking and compiling extensive guitar effect circuitry.
  It would benefit by going from 'might work fine' to a more solid construction...short run, or long run.
  Attaching aluminum to wood..I think Gorilla glue, and a 'T bar' shape of aluminum strip...the glue is nasty, pour a blob of it out on full sheet of newspaper, get the top of the T-bar covered with it by pulling it through or touching it to the poured out blob [use breadbag or gloves...stick it carefully to the marked position on the underside of the switch portion of the board [repeat at next row?]. The longer the upright of the 'T' shape [looking at the end of the strip] the better.
  Another way to stiffen would be to use oak or hardwood under the board, then, above that [and on top of the panel, 'in view'], add oak moulding, say 3/4'' x 1/4'' strips with quarterrounded top [available at hardware store, to create a 'strut sandwich'..oak 'bread', plywood 'meat', having oak fibers spanning across the panel, above and below a 'width' between them, would make a strong strut...not that hard, and two-tone wood grains finishes look cool to me...clamping after wood glueing being the 'tricky' part, I would use two drill bits, one for the shank and threads, another to countersink into the 1/4'' inch wood [which could split..just tighten them to pin the glued board down only] clean the drill-exit splits so the screw doesn't raise grain between wood contact areas, sand, glue, then screw the sandwich together from top.
  Gueseppe says you can't not use too much glue to get a great glue joint, and even though I disagree with this, using a wettish rag to clean up may still leave glue stains...I like just the right amount, let that set a bit, then clamp and liberally wipe the slight excess off, clean portion of the rag for second swipes.

Pete, I don't really get the T-bar suggestion. Let me see if I understand you correctly. You suggest to glue to top of the T-bar (the - part) to the top of the enclosure (on the inside ofcourse) between the 2nd and 3rd row of stompswitches.
Next, the upright part (the I part) of the t-bar goes where? To the bottom of the enclosure? I'm not sure if such T-bars exist (haven't seen them yet that is). Besides, the top is angled, so I wonder how strong this construction is.

Maybe I misunderstood you. I'm thinking for now I'll go with what you said before:

Quote from: petemoore on August 31, 2008, 12:44:17 AM
  It looks as though there's room for hardwood struts [or metal] to span the wide dimension, along/between the 2nd and 3rd row of [looks like switch holes] the 'checkerboard' spaced holes. If made sort of thick but almost as deep as the bottom allows, signifigant stiffening is possible. Fitting this strut to touch the top and bottom helps a thin top survive supporting greater weight.

Today I found some time to test the 'supports' and PCB-holders. And: So for So GOOD! It looks like this solution gives extra strength to the enclosure and keeps all the PCB's solidly in place.

Here are the pics.
Topview. PCB's are small ones: a SHO and a signal-splitter:
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3287/image098yw1.jpg)

Sideview:
(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/9729/image099qj7.jpg)

It is not glued to the enclosure yet, so that's why you see the black/blue claw holding it in place:
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9674/image096jv0.jpg)

(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1871/image097cr9.jpg)

Verdorie man!
Hoe lang ben je daar al mee bezig zeg?
Superbofantastisch dat je doorzet...
ik hoop dat je niet dyslectisch wordt eens d eknoppies er op staan.  ;D

Thanks!
How long I've been working on this... well on and off since the start of this thread: April 14th 2007. So yeah... long time indeed ;)
Sometimes it becomes a drag, but most of the time it is a pleasure to work on it/ think and come up with solutions/ debug/ take pics/ etc  ;)


Glueing in process:
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3586/image100lb8.jpg)

/edit: pic added. And yeah Yorick, I'll try to be ready ;)

Just make sure it's ready for the meeting in November  ;D

Slacker's EchoBase inspired me finetune my PT-80. I modified the repeats, and... I 'stole' the LFO section of the EchoBase and added it to the PT-80. WICKED :D

So now I have one of the finest digital Delays out there, with a great tone and with modulation possibilities. All the wacky stuff the EchoBase can do, the PT80 can do now as well.

First I made an add-on board on stripboard. But, me and stripboard don't get along too well... so after long debate with myself I decided to start Eagle. The result is a nice little PCB. If anyone wants the PCB, drop me a line/pm, I gladly share it.

The add-on pcb for the PT80:
(http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5248/image008zl4.jpg)

happy together:
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7315/image009hk1.jpg)

I also posted this in the Echo Base thread, but in case some1 reading this thread wants the PCB as well, here it is:

Here is the PCB to use the EchoBase LFO section on a PT-80 delay. I am pretty sure it will work on a Rebote as well, but I have not tried that.

Just the PCB, size is correct if printed at 600 pdi:
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/15/pt80modpcb600dpivk5.th.png) (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pt80modpcb600dpivk5.png)(http://img101.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

And the layout:

(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2086/pt80modlayout05fq1.png)

Because of a crash of my 'diy'-pc I lost the eagle files for the early stuff of this thread. One of those things is the Channel_Selector. And to be honest, I was quite puzzled when I tried to understand what I had in mind over a year ago....

Ah well, note to self: Make sure what you do/plan to do is WELL DOCUMENTED (and have backups..)! Tonight I took some time to figure it out. Here's a pic (mainly for myself). It shows how the selectors should be wired.

(http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9643/image023tu7.jpg)

After all this hard work why not create a patch system at the back of the board? (Maybe you already are....) You'd need to build alot a patch cables but it'd mean you could always chop and change order and emit certain effects from the chain, plus it'd look real complex to people ;)

I was thinking about the patch cable concept too--I'm building effects 3-to-a-box right now, and I use that method. However, if I were building an all-in-one mega-unit like Auke's got going here, I'd put separate jacks for everything, but I would use the smallest, cheapest connectors I could find to do it, whether that would be bananas, RCAs, or 1/8" phone jacks.

Full modularization via patches, but much less expensive--just roll a ton of your own cables and you're in business :)

thanks for the ideas guys!

Let's imagine... 14 effects, 2 effectsloops. That meanse 16 send+returns would be required. If we stick to the two channel concept, eacht send+return needs a A+B channel, so total would be 32 sends and 32 returns: 64 jacks  :icon_mrgreen:

Each effect(loop) would require 2 jacks (send+return), so 32 jackplugs.

Quite a bunch ;) Both in numbers, $$$ and space.

However we could make this a smaller problem by using other types of jacks and plugs, as Jacob suggests.

But, what is the advantage? Routing options? Yeah, I guess. But what is the advantage over the idea I currently have?

As it is now I'd like to built two effectsloops in the chain. Their position is not set yet, but I think I place the first loop after the boosters and right before the OD/Dirt section. The second loop will be places after the Dirt and before the modulation-sections. That would, as I imagine, give quite interesting routing options.

And, how often do you really change the order of fx completely?

I think that the basic order of: Boost, OD, Dirt, Modulation, Delay is the most usefull. Swapping the order within such a section is possible with two loops.

Example: OD has TS and DOD. With Loop 1 just in front of the OD section I can put the TS on channel A, DOD on channel B. Normally the order is DOD-> TS. Now, with all other fx inactive, I route Loop 2 Send to Loop 1 Return. Loop 2 is on the A channel, Loop two I put on the B channel. Output I set to the B channel. Order now is input-> TS -> Loop 2 -> Loop 1 -> DOD -> Output. Voila! TS and DOD swapped ;)

As you see, the Loops can be used to bring additional effects into the chain (orginal goal), but can also be used to swap the order of fx.

Maybe it is good to put in a third FX-loop. That would give me even more routing options.

too cool.

That sounds like a good solution. I don't tend to change the order of my board very often, but I do tend to add/remove things from the chain pretty readily.

Additionally, my goal is generally to minimize the number of bypassed connections being used--meaning if I'm not going to use a specific effect at a show, I remove it from my chain completely.

Another thing to consider with the issue of keeping them all with separate connections is what you do when something goes wrong. Suppose you have 6 effects strung together at a given point in your chain...something happens to fail, and you can't use any of those effects until you open the whole thing up, trace the problem, then fix it.

With separate inputs/outputs, you'll have the option to remove just one effect from a module of several in case something happens to fail.

Quote from: mth5044 on September 30, 2008, 12:40:23 PM
too cool.

Thanks!  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: jacobyjd on September 30, 2008, 01:10:59 PM
Another thing to consider with the issue of keeping them all with separate connections is what you do when something goes wrong. Suppose you have 6 effects strung together at a given point in your chain...something happens to fail, and you can't use any of those effects until you open the whole thing up, trace the problem, then fix it.

With separate inputs/outputs, you'll have the option to remove just one effect from a module of several in case something happens to fail.

Ok, this is a very good point. Reliability depends on the weakest link in the chain.

I did not take it that into much consideration to be honest. Of course, I have thought about how to build this is solid as possible. And of course, each single effect is tested before I put it inside (at the time of writing nothing is inside yet...).

But, my multi-fx does not differ that much from seperate effects. The only difference is: one big enclosure and some routing options. If an effect fails (which I hope is unlikely) I can still bypass it with the footswitch. In the worst case, if an ad hoc solution is needed, I can put the 'broken' effects in the channel B, and only use channel A for playing.

If also depends a lot on the cause of failure. If it is beer being spilled over the enclosure I have more trouble than if it is a broken LED ;)

I guess the big test is actually to finish this bloody project and use it :D :icon_mrgreen:

 :icon_redface: :icon_redface:... over ten thousand views... that's insane!

Thanks to everyone who is following this project! It helps to keep me motivated a lot!

I check back here all the time! Keep going man!

A very inspiring project.  Makes me want to build something at least 1/100th so ambitious.   ;D

Thanks for the encouragement guys!

And a special thanks goes out to: xshredx.

A few posts above I mentioned I lost quite a bunch of my Eagle files due to a computer crash. xshredx kindly reminded me that I sent him all the files I had at the time over a year ago. I completely forgot about that! He still had the files and mailed them to me. Exactly what I was looking for!

As you've probably seen in the Wah Enclosure thread by Mick Farlow I have received the 'custom' wah's build by Mic. Just two pics here:
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1307/image006ex5.jpg)

(http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4711/image008bp2.jpg)

The other wahs in the pic are for comparison.

As you see, two wah's. One with a single pot. One with two wahpots.

The single pot-wah will contain:
-a channel blender: so you can blend the two channels in my multi-fx with your foot.
-an 'hard'switch between the channels. Like an A/B-switch. So no gradual change, but instant switch from channel A to B and vice versa.
-LEDs in the plexi to show which channel is active. So the colour in the plexi changes as I rock the pedal. Looking forward to see this in action!
-an amp+cab sim with headphone out. For quiet playing

The wah with two pots:
-A wahwah, based on GGG modable wah. Two inductors. One 'stock' and a Whipple Inductor. Cap selection via a rotary, Q-control etc.
-A fuzz. Probably a face-bender. This is a combination of a Fuzz Face and a Tone Bender. The second wah pot will be used as a fuzz pot.
-Other ideas welcome. I'm not 100% conviced the wah-fuzz-pot is the best thing to do...

I'm looking forward to our meeting in November  ;D

oooo this enclosures are really cool.

You should have a part at the bottom of your pedalboard that sticks out so that you can mount the wah enclosures on, so that it'll look like a
commercial pedalboard with the rocker pedals attached.  That'd be really cool.

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread...

nice work so far.

Finally a pic of the initial wiring.

Things to note: the red/black-twisted wires are powersupply wires. They carry GND and +9V. I intend to keep the LEDs (switches) and fx seperate, powerwise.

And, note the 'telephone-cable'. It is the thick(er) black cable (you can see it clearly top left), with four coloured wires inside. Those wires are used to connect the FX to the Footswitch and the Channel Selector.

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7813/p1010245xh8.jpg)

Probably a small step to some of you, but for me this marks a big(ger) step. I have now decided how to get the power to all those PCB's. Every pcb needs power... and to prevent a mess I put some thought in how to do that in a decent way.

T-46 days until the meeting...  ;D

Another small/big step  :icon_mrgreen:

Today I hooked up the outputs of the first Channel_Selector to an improvised mixer (25k LIN pot..) And yeah! Everything works. One channel has a SHO, the other channel is 'clean'. The mixer blends them nicely. Switching the Channel_Selector actually switches to SHO to the other channel. So, it works as designed.

So, a time-consuming hobby it is! You can't imagine the amount of wires needed for this project. Or at least, I couldn't imagine up until now... It is insane!

Today I finished putting the third effect in . Currently I have:
-Splitter (not an effect, but required for the two channels)
-SHO
-ROG Omega
-DOD250

I tested it again and it did work on the 2nd attempt (1st attempt failed because I forgot to power the effects....)! I already am very very pleased with having two channels and the ability to blend them. Really FAT sounds possible when combining a bit of SHO and a bit of the Omega into a DOD250 :D :D (thanks to Mark Hammer for bringing up this possibility!)

And now for the pics. The first pic is a bit vague, but you can see three blue LEDs active (the three effects are 'on'). The other pics show the 'guts' and some of my testing setup. Enjoy! :

Omg this project is just as fantastic as well as insane!  ;D
Do you have any global "architecture"- / block- / signal-flow- diagram for this?
Good luck with it Auke! I'll "see" you at the Newtone forum...

Hoi Flo!

There was a conceptual layout posted at page two of this thread. Yeah, it is old, but the basics are still there:

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on April 26, 2007, 07:54:34 AM
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9560/diagramofmfxjc8.jpg)

Changes have been made to the actual effects. Instead of FX-blocks I have a footswitch for each single effect.

At this time I have these effects:
input->ROG Splitter -> SHO -> Omega -> DOD250 -> TS808 -> Big Muff -> Crunchbox -> RAT -> Box of Rock -> Dr Boogey -> CE2-Chorus -> Phase90 -> NeoVibe -> Trem Lune -> PT80 -> Blender and/or A/B switch

Currently I consider dropping the Crunchbox (I already have the BoR as a marshall imitation) for the Zendrive.

This morning i woke up, got dressed and prepared to go to work. Quickly I glanced over my mutli-fx project. And the thought came to me.... "Those wires from pcb to pot are long.... very long... why not put the pcb's above the pots".

It can be pretty easily done. I drew a pic to illustrate:

(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/818/ideavi8.jpg)

Pro: short pot wires. Each effect has pots. Most have 3 pots. So shortening these wires will shorten to total amount of wire(length) quite a bit. And thus reduce the chance of added noise.

Con: the pcbs are more removed from the footswitches. This meanse on avg the the input/output wires will be like 5 cm longer.
Another con: all the work in regard of placing has to be redone. Not a real con.... trial-and-error is part of my whole approach to this project. It is however a setback in time.

Any thoughts on this idea?

Can't you use relais switching or something? So the footswitch's only purpose it to change the status of the relais.
This would involve a lot of work (again :D) but it might solve the issue with the signal running through very long wires.

So the footswitch is on the PCB and the pots were supposed to be "moved to another place"?
Hmm doing it the other way around does seem to be more effective, wire wise. ;)

I think that some extra wire is not a problem with good:
- buffering
- "driving" capabilities of the buffers
- shielding

Connect the FXs, footswitches etc with coax cable just like you would when it was a regular pedalboard with "discrete" FXs but I think you're already doing that?

auke, when you get to your grounding stage...let me know what you decide.

im having trouble already just running a signal in and out of the board, no fX, no power, nothing. just connecting two jacks tip to tip and sleeve to sleeve while grounding the sleeve to 9v-...

i get a really annoying little buzzzz

Quote from: Valoosj on October 28, 2008, 09:12:13 AM
Can't you use relais switching or something? So the footswitch's only purpose it to change the status of the relais.
This would involve a lot of work (again :D) but it might solve the issue with the signal running through very long wires.

Ej Yorick! Relay is a good option, but would require quite a bunch of new hardware. I'd like to tackle this issue with rearranging instead of rebuilding, if you know what I mean. And my target is to have at least some parts working before November 22nd... :D

Quote from: flo on October 28, 2008, 05:13:58 PM
So the footswitch is on the PCB and the pots were supposed to be "moved to another place"?
Hmm doing it the other way around does seem to be more effective, wire wise. ;)

It is just the same as 'normal' single effects. A pcb, pots with wires and a footswitch. Since I use the Mil2 Bypass I have a pcb for the footswitch as well. However, the footswitch does route the signal. And since the footswitches are further away from the pcb than normally, that increases the amount of wire the signal has to travel through. Just to clear things up, but I think you already understood what I just wrote ;)

Quote from: flo on October 28, 2008, 05:13:58 PM
I think that some extra wire is not a problem with good:
- buffering
- "driving" capabilities of the buffers
- shielding

Connect the FXs, footswitches etc with coax cable just like you would when it was a regular pedalboard with "discrete" FXs but I think you're already doing that?

Buffers are a serious option. I have not put them in place yet (nor designed them), but I will if necessary. Firstly I'd like to connect all the effects to see if buffers are even required.

Coax-cable.... that's thick cable. I may have to use it. Do you know a source for thin, shielded cables? The size of the wire we normally use, but then just a little bit thicker because of the added shielding? Remeber, I need to run FOUR wires between the Footswitch and the Effect/Channel Selector. (that's why I picked a telephone-cable for this job now)

Currently I have all effects, switches, selectors etc on the same powersupply. Maybe I'll breadboard a regulated PS with 78L09's to see if that cures some of the noise.

Quote from: sjaltenb on October 28, 2008, 05:36:49 PM
auke, when you get to your grounding stage...let me know what you decide.

im having trouble already just running a signal in and out of the board, no fX, no power, nothing. just connecting two jacks tip to tip and sleeve to sleeve while grounding the sleeve to 9v-...

i get a really annoying little buzzzz

Sorry to hear about your buzz! I don't have a buzz (yet.....) but I have just 4 effects hooked up as of now. Keep an eye on this thread, the Grounding stage will be taken care of here eventually ;)

Perhaps the stereo shielded cables used for "home HiFi equipment connections" like you get on the stereo cinch-cinch cables (can't find a better way to describe it):
http://www1.conrad.nl/scripts/wgate/zcop_nl3/~flN0YXRlPTYxNDk3NzU4Mg==?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=604009&no_brotkrumennavi=1&zhmmh_area_kz=8A#
or this:
http://www1.conrad.nl/scripts/wgate/zcop_nl3/~flN0YXRlPTYxNDk3NzU4Mg==?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=600218&no_brotkrumennavi=1&zhmmh_area_kz=8A#
http://www1.conrad.nl/scripts/wgate/zcop_nl3/~flN0YXRlPTYxNDk3NzU4Mg==?~template=pcat_product_details_document&product_show_id=600807&no_brotkrumennavi=1&zhmmh_area_kz=8A#

Thanks Floris!

Those conrad-links never work for me when copied, but I could extract the product number out of it ;)

Especially #600807 looks very interesting.
(http://media.conrad.com/xl/6000_6999/6000/6000/6008/600807_BB_00_FB.EPS.jpg)

4 wires: Check! I need 4
Shielded: Check! Double shielded!Shielded against outside interference and against crosstalk.

Good call!

You're welkom.
I'm curious on how all the shielding and grounds will be connected without getting massive ground loops. Perhaps when you reach that point you can share your ideas on this?

uhm... that's a topic still 'under investigation'... ;)

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on October 29, 2008, 07:25:25 AM
Especially #600807 looks very interesting.
(http://media.conrad.com/xl/6000_6999/6000/6000/6008/600807_BB_00_FB.EPS.jpg)

4 wires: Check! I need 4
Shielded: Check! Double shielded!Shielded against outside interference and against crosstalk.

Good call!

This one has been ordered and shipped. Hopefully I can do some rewire-ing this weekend. Expect updates!

Do you connect the shielding only on one side to avoid groundloops?

Quote from: flo on October 31, 2008, 09:29:16 PM
Do you connect the shielding only on one side to avoid groundloops?

Yes.

Hi Auke ,

Looks impressing your project . What I am curious about is what amp(s) are you going to use ?
Tube or transistor ?  I am asking because in my experience the rangemaster only sounds good through a tubeamp. But that's just my opinion.

Alf

Quote from: ianmgull on November 01, 2008, 02:04:58 AM

Quote from: flo on October 31, 2008, 09:29:16 PM
Do you connect the shielding only on one side to avoid groundloops?

Yes.

Thanks for chiming in here! That is an answer I was looking for too ;)

Quote from: alfafalfa on November 01, 2008, 05:30:17 AM
Hi Auke ,
Looks impressing your project . What I am curious about is what amp(s) are you going to use ?
Tube or transistor ?  I am asking because in my experience the rangemaster only sounds good through a tubeamp. But that's just my opinion.
Alf

Thanks Alf, good to see you again! I have two tube-amps. A Vox AC30 CC1 and a small Epi Valve Jr head. So far I've been really pleased with the sound of both amps (although they are in completely different leagues!).

Conrad-package just arrived: I can continue :D

A little while back I said:

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on October 28, 2008, 08:22:46 AM
This morning i woke up, got dressed and prepared to go to work. Quickly I glanced over my mutli-fx project. And the thought came to me.... "Those wires from pcb to pot are long.... very long... why not put the pcb's above the pots".

It can be pretty easily done. I drew a pic to illustrate:

(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/818/ideavi8.jpg)

And it turned out like this:

(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4567/p1010252nx8.jpg)

(http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/555/p1010253pt4.jpg)

(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9239/p1010254pp7.jpg)
Those two unpopulated PCB's are the Neutron and the BSIAB2. Box of Rock and Crunchbox are dropped. Neutron was picked after advice in this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72010.0

As you see, still 'Work in Progress'. Two effects do not fit in the row. The neovibe is simply too big. I am going to put it as you see it on the pic (with stands ofcourse). The Trem Lune will stand next to the vibe.

I can now already say this is a pretty good idea. It shortens so many wires... just consider an avg of 3 pots per effect, 3 wires per pot, 14 fx. Easily saves me 5 cm per wire.... well if that wild guess is midly correct: over 5 METERS of (unshielded) wire saved.

The input/output wires will be longer, true. However, those wires are shielded, so length does not matter as much.

Looks great!!!! Very inspiring! Keep up the good work!

You've got your work cut out for you by next Saturday... It's looking good though.

For what it's worth.  On that Neutron.  I tried the H11F3 (sp?) chip option and it did not work well for me.  You may want to buy parts to allow yourself the ability to try all options.  Or, in the very least, search this forum to see what others used.

Quote from: ianmgull on November 12, 2008, 03:17:21 PM
Looks great!!!! Very inspiring! Keep up the good work!

Thanks! You keep me going ;)

Quote from: Valoosj on November 12, 2008, 06:08:33 PM
You've got your work cut out for you by next Saturday... It's looking good though.

I'll be there. And I'll have my multi-fx with me. I do not know for sure if it will be finished completely, or functionally finished. I guess the latter...

Quote from: bdevlin on November 13, 2008, 11:01:36 AM
For what it's worth.  On that Neutron.  I tried the H11F3 (sp?) chip option and it did not work well for me.  You may want to buy parts to allow yourself the ability to try all options.  Or, in the very least, search this forum to see what others used.

Thanks, I stil have to order some parts and will keep this in mind!

Today I had the chance to check out the Arnhemse Fijnhouthandel. Really nice and skilled guys over there. I went looking for a nice piece of veneer...and I found some.

They had quite a collection of veneer to choose from:
(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9775/image025ys3.jpg)

Piles and piles of veneer:
(http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7219/image026pe3.jpg)

And after changing my mind quite a few times I stuck with this piece. A really dramatic, colorful piece! These pics don't do it justice at all!
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8306/image024nq6.jpg)

Not sure when I have the chance to experiment with it, but I'm sure this will look stunning!

Not sure if I'll make it before next saturday, apologies Yorick. Though it is tempting to rush to the finish, I'd rather make sure I finish it as best as possible! Hopefully I can show you a working multi-fx, that'd be already a major achievement :D

Any updates ?
How was the meeting, guys?

The meeting was nice. Where the hell were you? You could have come if you wanted to.

The meeting was nice. My car almost died, but he! it is fixed and alive :D

In the mean I have built both the Neutron and the tonepad FSH1 (since I have been recommended to add a fitler). Neutron didn't do it for me. FSH1 is still being debugged.

BSIAB2 has been built and verified (like it!).

So not very much progress, but we are getting there ;)

keep at it auke. im getting so close... i finally figured out HOW i was going to complete the board as far as power, switching and grounding is concerned (ok i didnt figure it out, someone told me) so now i just gotta do it. i'll be leaving school for 6 weeks for our winter break. cant really take the board home but im gonna build all my PSUs and millenium switches hopefully!

did you ever figure out your millenium problem?

6 weeks of time and you cannot take your board with you??? That must be hell!   :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

My guess for the millenniumbug is static electricity killing the BS170 mosfet. So, my own fault. Once I replace the BS170 and put the switch safely inside the enclosure they won't fail (knock, knock).

In my attempt to add a filter to the range I tried both the Neutron and the FSH-1. First the Neutron. Couldn't get it to sound right, so switched to the FSH. Couldn't get a decent sound out of that one at all. After hours of debugging and trying to understand why it sounded like birds chirping (but not like the filter I expected...) I returned to the Neutron. Gave it another shot. And within an hour I get a very decent sounding filter.

But, I couldn't fit the rotary in. And, I noticed that varying "Rx" with a pot gave interesting results. So. I added Rx as a pot. Removed the rotary but replaced it with 2 switches. As you can see on the pic below I have 3 push-pull pots and one ON-ON-switch. 1 pushpull dpdt selects the Range (High, Low), one selects the sweep direction (Up, Down). And the last one selects between Bandpass or [Highpass, Lowpass]. Highpass or Lowpass is finally selected with the ON-ON switch. So in the pic below you actually see 3 pots, 3 DPDT's, 1 ON-On-switch. And... a lot wire ofcourse ;).

However, it sounds fantastic. Really like it a lot!



So, what's left to do?
I'm considering the A/DA Flanger (with MN3207's) but that PCB is HUGE. really Huge. So if I want to fit it in, I'll have to slice it up into 2 or 3 seperate PCB's. But, as of now, I am really considering giving it a shot. The Flanger takes the last free fx spot.

In the meantime I can continue shortening the wires to the pots for the other fx. And, getting the signal in/outputs to the fx, channel_selectors and footswitches.

When that is done I have to redesign my powersupply. Still quite some work to do. But we are making progress. Yup, we are.

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on December 14, 2008, 05:17:57 PM
.....so switched to the FSH. Couldn't get a decent sound out of that one at all. After hours of debugging and trying to understand why it sounded like birds chirping (but not like the filter I expected...)

Chirping sounds to me as if it were self oscillating. That type of filter will naturally self oscillate if you remove the resonance pot, or if the resonance is set high. You could try using a lower value for the resonance pot, such as 470K or 1M.  ;)

Ah Thanks ;). It did a bit more than just chirping, but that's the most funny description I could come up with  :icon_mrgreen: It also did some very deep low notes and weird arpeggio stuff. But, for me, it was completely incontrolled. And since the Neutron sounds so freaking amazing, I've decided to stick with the Neutron. I still have the FSH board populated, so it my end up as an 'normal' single effect once.

If you could, I'd love to hear a clip of you Neutron.  What parts did you use?  LED/LDR???  It looks like you did not use that H11F3.

I used two VTL5C3/2's. If I can find the time I may record a clip, but don't count on it. Ofcourse a clip will come once the whole project is functionally finished.

Quote from: Auke Haarsma on December 15, 2008, 10:39:02 AM
I used two VTL5C3/2's.

Ah, that was the option that I never tried.  I shouldn't have  given up on that project.  The LED/LDR worked somewhat decently.  The chip was a failure for me.

Any update??  ;D

Thanks for asking!
Nope sorry, no updates. I've been busy moving. Hopefully I can get some real updates in the near future.

i may beat you to the finish line if your not careful!!!

I made by input splitter, dual output buffer and delay splitter PCBs last night, and got a 3pdt bypass design over to John Lyons for prototyping.

haha, we will see....we will see! I'm pretty much set up now to continue building.... all I need is : time! :D

Quote from: flo on October 29, 2008, 07:37:58 AM
You're welkom.
I'm curious on how all the shielding and grounds will be connected without getting massive ground loops. Perhaps when you reach that point you can share your ideas on this?

I haven't been on the forum in ages but this thread caught my eye :)

For those who don't recall, I did a cornish style board back in April. I've been using the board for gigs on average once a week ever since with zero failures so far, and it's quiet as ever. http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=67375.0

sjaltenb pmed me around June last year asking about my ground wiring so thought i'd share it here too.

My whole board runs on a single 1Spot. Thus I designed the board with every single effect, as well as the input and output of the entire board, having the ground on a single bus bar. This means my ENTIRE board is star grounded. The only ground loops that exist are those on the individual pcb boards due to circuit design.

If you've ever thought about it: for every 2 effects sharing a daisy chained power connection, using a standard patch cable, you're creating a ground loop. One ground connection via the power ground, one ground connection via the patch cable ground. What some really, really old guys used to do (I read ONCE that a guy did this) was to remove the ground in the patch cables. Thus the only ground for the effects is at the power, effectively removing the loop.

If you have multiple power supplies, you'd probably have to make a more detailed analysis of how to proceed.

Sorry for coming in so late :P

Quote from: theblueark on February 10, 2009, 04:07:21 AM
Sorry for coming in so late :P

Not late, just in time!  :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:Yesterday night I fired some fx up again for the first time after moving to my new place. I experimented shortly with an old PS-design I had in my bin. It is basically one adapter into several voltage regulators, thus all sharing the same ground.

Thanks for your post: It helps me to decide on how to do my ps. Any chance you have some pics, schematics of your idea worked out?

I did a quick sketch of the idea

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b290/theblueark/wiringcopy.jpg)

If it's not clear let me know. It looks perfectly logical to me, but that's cos I drew it  :D

Thanks! Makes perfect sense to me.

Hou vol Auke!  ;D

Thanks ;) Volhouden zal ik!

Yesterdayevening I had some time to design a PSU pcb. This time went back to an old idea (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60614.0). At that time I couldn't to get it to work as I wanted. But for this time I have better hopes. I've learned a lot since 2007 ;)

Basically it is now designed like this:
Laptop Adapter puts out 16V DC (3.5A) -> into 78L12 and 7812. From the 7812 I regulated down to a bunch of 78L09's. These 78L09's will each power two effects. They all share the ground.

also:
-Big cap (470uF) before and after the 7812.
-Small caps (10uF) at each 78L09 and the 78L12
-two LEDs as indicators. One for the adapter (so at the 16V point) one for the 9V's.
-one 78L09 is 'special'. It is the last one. This one will be used to power all the LED's of the footswitches etc. I seperate this ground from the fx ground by a 10R resistor.

Schematic:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1422/schematiclb5.png)

Layout:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4606/layoutlo4.jpg)

PCB:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3741/pcbml2.jpg)

I just stumble upon this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73863.0 I may need to incorporate some of those ideas...

Any updates?

Not much sadly, but thanks for asking! I appreciate that!

I am changing the PSU a bit more. Now replaced the last 78L09 with an LM317. This way I can control the brightness of the LEDS via a pot. It is still in the design phase.

I have another project going on: I am building a Echo Base delay for some1 I know. I am using Slackers' schem, but I design my own PCB (for fun... but it takes quite some time to do it decently). I want to fit the echobase in one of Mick Farlow's enclosures I got last summer.

I expect to finish the PSU-PCB next week.

Small update with some pics of my new DIY-room:

And some in-progress pics of the EchoBase I am building for some one (so not for the Multi-fx...). The PCB is designed by me. The EchoBase ofcourse by Slacker!

First couple of parts are installed:

In the background MicFarlow's beautiful enclosure! The delay hopes to end up there ;)

Updated the PSU-design after receiving some valuable feedback:
(http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09123/psu_ver2222.png)

Basic ideas for this design:
-can be used with either  a laptop adapter or fed by transformers.
-all I have to do is for the laptop-option: connect dc in to the +16V pad. Bridge all others pads below the 78xx's.
-to use the transformer outputs: no bridging, each transformer output feeds (after rectifying etc) a pad for the 78xx.
-10uF and 100nF after each 78xx to prevent oscilliation
-lm317 on the far right to provide juice to the LED's.

Some updates on the EchoBase I am working on. Got myself a drillpress a couple of months ago. First time I could put it to use. Time- and frustration saver for sure! Drilling enclosures was never so easy ;)
Pots are pcb-mounted.


Not yet finished, but we're getting closer. 2PDT footswitch will not be soldered directly onto the pcb. I'll use some wire to allow some flexing when being stomped.

Finished the Echobase last weekend. Had a few small probs, but long story short... here's the pics:

(http://s3.supload.com/thumbs/default/p1010289.jpg) (http://s3.supload.com/free/p1010289.jpg/view/)
(http://s3.supload.com/thumbs/default/p1010290.jpg) (http://s3.supload.com/free/p1010290.jpg/view/)
(http://s3.supload.com/thumbs/default/p1010291.jpg) (http://s3.supload.com/free/p1010291.jpg/view/)
(http://s3.supload.com/thumbs/default/p1010292.jpg) (http://s3.supload.com/free/p1010292.jpg/view/)

Echobase with indicator leds for Tails and Modulation. And: tempo-LED which blinks with the uhm, tempo.


Also, while waiting on some additional information on my multi-fx powersupply, I started with breadboarding the Mesa Boogie Lonestar amp:

(http://imagecloset.com/23/c1865dc16554b37b50a7d89351067aa9/p1010298_thumb.gif) (http://imagecloset.com/view23/c1865dc16554b37b50a7d89351067aa9/p1010298.jpg)

Currently working on the schematic and pcb in Eagle.

Wow, just found this thread. This is a huge project... the amount of patience necessary to complete it is impressive! Awesome thread, and please keep updating!

Nice little workshop!  One thing I would pick up if you don't have one already is a Dremel.  That tool has been at the top of my MVP (most valuable purchase) list for a while.  Especially with making PCBs.  I can use a cutting wheel to cut out the PCBs from larger pieces.  Then a grinder bit to file down the rough edges.  Then, once it's etched, I have the attachment unit called the Dremel Workstation which lets you mount the dremel tool vertically and essentially turns it into a mini-drill press.  I have a mini-jacobs chuck bit that I use with 1/32" or 1/64" drill bits and, with the raw speed and precision of the setup, it cuts those holes like butter. 

Quote from: studiostud on May 23, 2009, 02:31:00 PM
Nice little workshop!  One thing I would pick up if you don't have one already is a Dremel.  That tool has been at the top of my MVP (most valuable purchase) list for a while.  Especially with making PCBs.  I can use a cutting wheel to cut out the PCBs from larger pieces.  Then a grinder bit to file down the rough edges.  Then, once it's etched, I have the attachment unit called the Dremel Workstation which lets you mount the dremel tool vertically and essentially turns it into a mini-drill press.  I have a mini-jacobs chuck bit that I use with 1/32" or 1/64" drill bits and, with the raw speed and precision of the setup, it cuts those holes like butter. 

Well said, I totally agree. And yup, I have one. Besides to prerequisites to DIY-ing (parts, solderstation etc), my 'MVP'-list would be:

• Digital Multi-Meter
• Dremel
• Breadboard
• Broadband Internet connection so I can regulary visit this board and the likes (ROG, GEO etc)

And with regard to the multi-fx project: Yeah I am still working on it! ;) I got an anwser regarding a PSU-board I bought, but I wasn't the answer I was hoping for. Seems I may have to reconsider the PSU once again...

In the meantime I have almost finished my side-project, the Lonely Star. I am preparing a project file to share this great sounding and versatile circuit with the forum soon.

Auke Haarsma, I truly admire your patience with this great build of yours.

Just to respond to your last comment on your lonely star project, I´m really looking forward to building it once you have finished and posted the final result. I followed the original post closely and I´m glad you´re still working on it.

Take care, Daniel

Thanks for your kind words Daniel!

Patience indeed is what is most needed. And sometimes I wonder if I have enough patience to finish this. I almost ditched this project a couple of weeks ago. I ran in to problem after problem... very discouraging. However, most of the probs were just mistakes I made. So, with patience, I solved them.

I have been working on the multi-fx the last couple of weeks. And, I have made some nice progress. Seven effects are wired and in the enclosure:
-channel spliter (no effect)
-SHO
-Omega
-DOD250
-Neutron (filter)
-TS
-BigMuff
-RAT
-BSIAB2

Oh,  that's EIGHT effects already! You see, when things go a bit smoother I make more progress than I think ;)

Next up to be wired in is the Dr Boogey. However, I feel not completely comfortable with it. So I pretty much decided to replace it for something else (still looking for a replacement).

After that we have the modulation section left to do: NeoVibe, Chorus, Phase, Trem en Delay.


I finished the Lonely Star project some weeks ago. check it out here:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76873.0

updated with a pic of the outside and inside.

(http://diy.2muchgear.com/multifx/pics/P1010130.JPG)
(http://diy.2muchgear.com/multifx/pics/P1010133.JPG)


Here you can see that I have been very very pragmatical with my PS solution. I couldn't decide on the PSU I wanted. Several designs I tried all didn't deliver what I expected. The PSU was blocking my progress for a long time. Then it got to me.... I just use a vero-board where I connect all +9V/gnd cables to and power it with my 1spot for the time being. If I ever decide to make a dedicated/isolated psu I can just disconnect the current wires easily and solder them back on to the new psu.

Current draw btw is low: below 100mA in the current setup (loads of LED's and a couple of distortion boxes). And not too much noise other than the noise I alwas have with my testing setup... (too noise to use, but I think/hope/know/guess/wish the noise will go down when the full enclosure shielding and grounding of shielded wires is finished).

Probably if you decouple each FX's power supply line with a 100 ohm in series and a 100uF to earth, things will quiet down. Try it with some of the noisy ones and see if it helps.

Thanks Flo, that seems like a pretty easy way to tame the noise. I'll keep that in mind.

Quote(http://xs537.xs.to/xs537/09123/p1010265887.jpg)

I've been recently working on a board that also has a ground plane and no solder mask (didn't etch it myself, just the cheapest option at Advanced Circuits), it has been an absolute nightmare of crummy little shorts to ground, have you had problems? 

No not really. I did have some problems with getting that etch right. My toner-transfer-technique didn't proof to be the best... took my 3-4 tries to get it 90% right.

However, those traces / groundplane are a bit too close to eachother to my liking. So wit that experience I kept the traces more seperated on future projects like the lonely star:
(http://diy.2muchgear.com/LonelyStar/P1010064.JPG)

I also used thicker traces, less chance of a broken traces, easier to etch and easier to solder.

Hi Auke,

How is this project going?

Hi Jan,

no progress since uhm august I see. It is still lying here on my bench. I will finish it... just don't know when.

Auke, I finished my board + a guitar by now. You really should get to working on it  :icon_mrgreen:

Hi!

Any progress? I'm interested :)

nice, just read the whole project and followed links all over the show. i have been trying to finish my own multifx box for 3 or 4 years but it only has 4 fx in it!!! inspired to get the last 2 in there now.

can't wait to see this done.

i wonder how it is look today?

I loved watching this topic and the progress but should it be renamed  My =ultimate= multi-fx pedalboard...R.I.P

Quote from: bdevlin on January 09, 2012, 12:53:26 PM
I loved watching this topic and the progress but should it be renamed  My =ultimate= multi-fx pedalboard...R.I.P

Look so... it was an interesting project...