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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Shed_FX on August 18, 2007, 06:57:49 AM

Title: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Shed_FX on August 18, 2007, 06:57:49 AM
This should be brought to peoples attention so that we can get the comunitity workin on it. I am currently sorting out a layout for a prototype board but Im not very good at tracing schem's!

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60288.0

This certainly is one hell of a gift thank you again Buck007
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: StephenGiles on August 18, 2007, 04:27:06 PM
Is this any more special than the ADA?
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Rectangular on August 18, 2007, 08:20:57 PM
yes ! finally its own thread  ;D

lets get this bad boy on the table, I think markus is onboard too, right ? his work on the String Ringer was exceptional
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: oldschoolanalog on August 18, 2007, 09:55:08 PM
Is this any more special than the ADA?
+1. Inquiring minds need to know.
What BBD/clock does this use? MN3??? :icon_question: is a bit ambiguous.  :D
What's the supply V?
So many questions...
Thanx!
osa
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Shed_FX on September 06, 2007, 01:44:21 PM
Here are my traces of the board done in the old school method.
First the small board
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/FlangeBoard12.jpg)

The main board
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/FlangeBoard26.jpg)

The main board needs some further work but may be useful for tracing the schem. There is a better trace of it done by a fellow forumite but this is useful for comparison.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Mark Hammer on September 06, 2007, 01:52:32 PM
Is this any more special than the ADA?
Hard to imagine that anything could top the sweep of the A/DA, but this has more controls, plus a loop. http://filters.muziq.be/files/pics/lovetone_stereoflanger_001.jpg

As "deep" as a Flanger Hoax?  I doubt it.  But certainly deeper than an A/DA, and MUCH deeper than any 3-knobber.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Dave_B on September 06, 2007, 03:34:34 PM
Here's a page with an audio sample (http://www.lovetone.com/flanger.html), for those who haven't already found it.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: oldschoolanalog on September 06, 2007, 06:23:23 PM
What BBD/clock does this use? MN3??? :icon_question: is a bit ambiguous.  :D
What's the supply V?
Well? Anybody?
 :icon_question:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: StephenGiles on September 07, 2007, 01:58:22 PM
Bugger, Im in San Juan near Alicante in Spain so I cant listen to this.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Mark Hammer on September 07, 2007, 03:22:31 PM
No problem, I'll hum it to you:  Bweeee-dooo-bweeee-doooo, drdlll-drdlllll-drdllll, doyoyooing doyoyoing, neeeeooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooohhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwww, frzzt-frzzzt-frzzt, ptang-ptang.  See, pretty cool pedal, huh? :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: c101aviojet on December 14, 2007, 02:23:01 AM
Any updates?  :)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: goosonique on December 14, 2007, 03:53:46 AM
No problem, I'll hum it to you:  Bweeee-dooo-bweeee-doooo, drdlll-drdlllll-drdllll, doyoyooing doyoyoing, neeeeooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooohhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwww, frzzt-frzzzt-frzzt, ptang-ptang.  See, pretty cool pedal, huh? :icon_biggrin:

Back on ol habits i see .... with the LED ZEP reunion and all  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Shed_FX on December 15, 2007, 02:57:56 PM
There has been no progress made on this project. I have been distracted on other projects and I'm not really "in to" flangers so I haven't put it high on my to do list.
This following layout was done by a fellow forumite Shawn whould was working on a similar trace of the Doppelganger for me. But I have been out of the loop for so long that I haven't contacted him about it.
I think all of the information was pretty much there in the original post only the final MN chip numbers need to be worked out. That is really not my area so I have no clue. Is there any chance someone could have a go at tracing the Schem? I have no experience of doing this and the only time that I attempted it I got hopelessly lost!

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/qm-flanger-mirrored2.jpg)

Hope someone has a go at this but I really don't have any time to do it right now.

Thanks to Shawn for the layout I hope to get to building one of these in the future.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: playon on January 04, 2008, 01:45:14 AM
Is this any more special than the ADA?
Hard to imagine that anything could top the sweep of the A/DA, but this has more controls, plus a loop. http://filters.muziq.be/files/pics/lovetone_stereoflanger_001.jpg

As "deep" as a Flanger Hoax?  I doubt it.  But certainly deeper than an A/DA, and MUCH deeper than any 3-knobber.

This pedal sounds so much better than the Flanger Hoax it's not funny. I haven't tried the ADA but from what I understand the Lovetone goes a bit beyond what it can do.  The ? flanger is probably the most musical pedal I have ever owned... I see over 750 reads of this page, a lot of people are interested.  I have an original which is broken & am desperate to find a back-up, and to get mine repaired -- I hope someone can build one for me & I'm willing to pay for it.  If I can help in any way let me know, email akaatz AT gmail.com & put Lovetone Flanger in the subject line.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on October 06, 2012, 01:22:06 PM
Hello everyone. I've been lurking looking at all the neat pedals on the forum. I found this thread and was wondering if there is still any interest??

I posted some findings and a schematic at mad bean pedals forum. Here's the link (hope it's allowed here): http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5387.msg55601#msg55601

I'd be interested in getting the LoveTone Flanger traced out but I don't have one to go by. I need some really good pictures of it or someone who would be willing to send me a broken one to trace out. The trace of the main board and the daughter board by shed_FX look to be very accurate. I have drawn a schematic of the daughter board based on the traced daughter board and photos I found eleswhere on this forum. From scanning through the datasheets for the MNxxx series BBD devices, I believe there is an MN3102 and an MN3207 on the daughter board (this took a while and an MN3007 could also be a possibility) mainly because the datasheets show an almost exact circuit. Anyway, Anyone willing to attempt this? Here are some pictures.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img823/8950/daughterboarddraft3b.png)

My schematic of the daughter board (NOT VERIFIED).

(http://imageshack.us/a/img577/3867/daughterbdnumberedparts.png)

My numbering of the daughter board based on the schematic I drew (not labeled like any previous posts elsewhere).

This is a draft and anyone looking at the schematic should read the notes that are listed on it. You could also breadboard it and see what it does, maybe give some feedback. I believe LaceSensor has (or had) a LoveTone Flange and may be able to verify some of my findings. Playon also has (or had) a broken one he wanted to get fixed. If he is interested, maybe we can work something out. Anyway, let me know. Don't want to waste anyone's time.

Thanks for all the great info on here, fantastic work!!

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on November 29, 2012, 03:27:53 PM
Since there appears to be no interest here, I will continue my efforts on the following forums just in case someone here is interested later.

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5387.msg61770#msg61770

http://freestomp boxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=362&p=210463#p210463  (remove the space in this link)

Also, here is a link to a folder I am maintaining:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3v4twi2sbs0l5p7/1Ep9NbRE2T

As an update, R10 is incorrect on the schem I posted. R10 is 330R. Also, the brown, red and blue wires have been confirmed that they
connect where I thought they did. So the wiring is correct for the daughter board. The red wire may also be an orange wire on some
units.

I would like to thank Lacesensor and playon for contributing to this effort.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: StephenGiles on November 30, 2012, 03:09:24 AM
I'm certainly interested!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: armdnrdy on November 30, 2012, 03:45:19 AM
Sounds like the soundtrack to a 70's horror flick!  :icon_evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dCp6mq0AqY
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on December 01, 2012, 11:17:10 AM
no offence to the originator but that was a poor demo of what this pedal can do.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: armdnrdy on December 01, 2012, 11:59:57 AM
I figured as much. I was sort of waiting for him to play something musical......He never did! :icon_sad:

Instead, the demo ended up sounding like Jimmy Page's bad avant garde soundtrack to the occult film Lucifer Rising.  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on December 19, 2012, 01:13:05 PM
OK, got my Lovetone Flanger boards yesterday! Does this motivate anyone yet? LOL

(http://imageshack.us/a/img819/7480/1004460m.jpg)


Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on December 19, 2012, 02:38:22 PM
@Jim,

Some nice looking boards you got there!!!

The only concern now is that ALL of the diligence was correct and there is nothing missing (i.e. missing traces, components, etc.)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: armdnrdy on December 19, 2012, 03:10:01 PM
Yes,

It is difficult to get excited about a project where the majority of the files are stamped "Not Verified".

It looks like those involved have done a great job!

There's a old saying, "The proof is in the pudding" In this case we'll amend it to, "the proof is in the flanging"

Good luck with the build!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: digi2t on December 20, 2012, 08:44:11 AM
I'm watching this thread, with bated breath. This is one of my " Gotta build it!" wanna builds.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Dave W on December 20, 2012, 11:18:09 AM
I'm watching this thread, with bated breath.
Me too. I want to see how far that 3102/3207 chip set can be pushed.  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Strategy on December 21, 2012, 02:34:33 AM
I'm watching as well please post results!
strategy
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Taylor on December 21, 2012, 08:12:16 AM
I built one of these years ago from the files available on this forum, and I got it working with some poking around, so the files can't be that far off. I don't have it anymore so I don't have much to contribute other than to say it's possible to make one of these things.

I'm actually not a big flanger fan so I can't really comment on how this is better than others out there, though. Best of luck!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on December 22, 2012, 08:57:22 AM
Quote
Yes,

It is difficult to get excited about a project where the majority of the files are stamped "Not Verified".

It looks like those involved have done a great job!

There's a old saying, "The proof is in the pudding" In this case we'll amend it to, "the proof is in the flanging"

Good luck with the build!

This is true, Would be better if I could get verification on the work done so far. Need someone that has one to step up and verify some of it please.

Quote
I built one of these years ago from the files available on this forum, and I got it working with some poking around, so the files can't be that far off. I don't have it anymore so I don't have much to contribute other than to say it's possible to make one of these things.

I'm actually not a big flanger fan so I can't really comment on how this is better than others out there, though. Best of luck!

Do you recall if there were 1 or 2 BC307B's on the board and maybe what the value of C6 was (tantalum cap) or if D2 is a 1N4148, 1N914? Any help would be appreciated.

Quote
@Jim,

Some nice looking boards you got there!!!

The only concern now is that ALL of the diligence was correct and there is nothing missing (i.e. missing traces, components, etc.)

The boards were verified before etching. The parts, that's another question. I do know the LFO works as I breadboarded that. Pin 7 of the IC is the square wave output and pin 14 is the triangle wave output.

I am still working on it, but with Christmas approaching, may have to put it to the side for a few days (or not!!).

Stay tuned!

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Taylor on December 22, 2012, 09:29:37 AM
I'm afraid I don't remember those details, but for any diode that looks like a 4148/914 that's exactly what I'd use. For the power diodes I used 4001s. I started to trace out the circuit once but got flustered at the magnitude of it and gave up! Hate to be a spoil sport but at this point I' probably get a flanger Hoax instead of building another one of these, as the build was kind of a nightmare. I don't know why Lovetone didn't design the things with less wiring. I'd do a jack board with a ribbon cable and cut out many hours of work and debug time...
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on December 22, 2012, 02:36:58 PM

Quote
I'd do a jack board with a ribbon cable and cut out many hours of work and debug time...

That's not a bad idea Taylor! I may give that a go.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on December 27, 2012, 11:37:34 PM
Parts have started coming in for the Flanger. So far I have the pots, the transformer, some resistors, diodes and the MN3207, MN3102.
I will start populating the board soon. Should have some more parts by the first of the week. Still waiting on the transistors and other
resistors and capacitors.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on December 28, 2012, 08:54:15 AM
Jacks are on the way Jim!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on December 28, 2012, 09:37:24 AM
Thanks Greg! Really appreciate it a lot!!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 08, 2013, 12:17:03 PM
OK, I have made some progress on the Lovetone Flanger. I've confirmed that the LFO is working. The Rate, Depth and Manual controls appear to be functioning as they should (don't have an Oscope, need to get one soon) by observing the LED's. I have a smooth transition from off to on (Traingle Wave) and a definate on/off (Square Wave) on the green led (LED6, "Time" on the schematic).

The Manual Control controls the H.B. Green LED on the daughter board (MN3102 and MN3207 connected to this board from "R" on the main board or collector of Q17). Fully CCW, the led is fully on. Fully CW, the LED is off. Settings in between adjust the brightness (this is with the Rate and Depth controls fully CCW or off). Now, when you add the Depth and Rate, interesting things start to happen. With Manual set fully CCW, the daughter board LED barely flickers. but the main board green LED flashes as it should. When the Manual control is fully CW, the daughter board LED and the main board LED (LED 6, green) alternately flash at an intensity and rate determined by the Depth and Rate controls. It should be noted that the main board LED is not as bright when the daughter board LED and main board LED are working together.

The only curious thing is that LED 2 (one of the LED/LDR combos) is dimly lit and is constantly on. No flashing or on/off is observed regardless of where the Rate, Depth, and Manual controls are set. However, I don't have the the rest of the associated circuitry set up either so this may or may not be the reason for this behaviour.

As far as the LFO section is concerned, it seems to be working. The only thing is connections "M", and "N" (main board schematic) are not yet connected. This includes the following, which have not been confirmed:

R55
C25
R56
R57
D2
Q13
R58

D2 I don't have a value for yet. I assmume it is a 1N4148, but upon reading the user manual, I'm beginning to think this might be a zener. Here's what the manual says about the Trig/Gate:

This is a dual-function socket which allows stop/start and continous synchronization of the LFO.

Gate: Connect a mono jack all the way in. A POSITIVE dc voltage of between 0.7v and 15v will "freeze" the LFO as long as it is applied.

Trig: Connect a mono jack in half-way. NEGATIVE going edges of a gate signal (square wave) will sync the LFO (and will only interrupt its motion while the transition is made). An audio signal of sufficient level (I.E line level) can also be used to sync the LFO (particularly in the bass region). Results, however, may be somewhat erratic compared to the GATE method and depends largely on the nature of the audio signal.

There are other details associated with both the TRIG and GATE, but what I listed above is what made me think it might be a zener (to clamp the max 15v).

So, there you have it for now. I'll continue to work on this project and keep you updated. Any thoughts on the progress so far or the possibility of D2 being a zener, let me know.

Cheers,

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 10, 2013, 02:34:22 PM
Still waiting on the LDR's, but here are pictures of the populated boards I had made:

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5540/1004463.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/1004463.jpg/)

D2 (to the left of the top large capacitor) and the hand soldered components (main board) in the lower right hand corner have not yet been added to the board. Ignore the yellow wire in the picture. I added this to connect two different stages when I was checking out the LFO and tracing some signals. A switch will eventually connect these sections in the completed unit.

SLOWLY making progress....

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 10, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
Looking GOOD Jim  8)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: digi2t on January 10, 2013, 06:33:38 PM
THAT.... looks AMMMMMAAAAAZING!!

 :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 15, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
Just checked with Futurelec, they haven't even picked the order yet (I ordered back in December!!!!). I've already received orders from Dr. Tweek, Tayda and a few others that were placed less than two weeks ago. Oh well, you know what they say about the slow boat from........
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 15, 2013, 01:54:31 PM
Just checked with Futurelec, they haven't even picked the order yet (I ordered back in December!!!!). I've already received orders from Dr. Tweek, Tayda and a few others that were placed less than two weeks ago. Oh well, you know what they say about the slow boat from........

Jim,

You might just want to get in touch with Futurlec again and see whether or not THEY are waiting for your parts...

It has been my experience that they are not very forthright on their "IN STOCK" policies. They often list items as in stock on the site and then when you place an order, they simply play the waiting game along with you until the parts arrive from THEIR supplier  :-\
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on January 17, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
Hi

Here are my updates to the fairly long list of debugging points.
I didnt get time to take the PCB out, requires desoldering and lots of screws. I will do that as soon as I get time. For what its worth here are most of the other answers.

Supply voltage was 11.2v. That shouldnt really matter - you can assume supply and 1/2 supply voltages and go from there. For some reason none of my PSUs wanted to put out 9v on my bench. My decent regulated one is all wired into my pedalboard and I have rehearsals tonight and show on the weekend so I cant take it off right now.


Here is the list:

Daughter board:

1) Color of the LED. I know it is water clear, but is is a high
brightness green LED?

-   Dont know how to answer that exactly. Its  Clear Green and says HB on the PCB. So yeah, its a high bright in my opinion.

2) What are the voltages at all pins for both IC's?

-   1      0v      7.57v
-   2       2.75v      2.79v
-   3      3.56v      0v
-   4      6.97v      3.04v
-   5      7.48v      3.52v
-   6      2.99v      3.63v
-   7      4.29v      3.66v
-   8      4.28v      7.04v


3) What is the voltage on pin 2 of the 22k trim pot (center pin/lug)?
-   3.77v

4) What is the voltage on the banded side of the vertical diode (far
left hand side of the daughter board)?
-   0v
 - to the "right" of the horizontal diode its reading ~7.5v

5) What resistance is the light and dark resistance of the LDR?
-   not desoldering unless absoutely essential, sorry.


Main board:

1) What is the voltage at pin 2 (center pin) of the 22k trimmer?
-   2.79v

2) What are the voltages of each pin of IC1?
-   1   9.20v
-   2   5.07
-   3   4.7-6.0 approx fluctuating
-   4   10.5
-   5   5.25
-   6   5.06
-   7   4.6 6v fluctuating
-   8   3.5 7.5v fluctuating
-   9   5.27v
-   10     5.22v
-   11    0v
-   12    4.93v
-   13    5.18v
-   14     5.19v

3) What are the Emiter, Base, and Colector voltages of each transistor?
-   Gonna take too long to measure right now

4) What is the value of D2 (1N4148 or something else. May be a zener)?
 - requires board removal, see above

5) What are the values of the two diodes in front of Q9 (the rats nest)?
 - requires board removal, see above

6) What is the value of the cap in front of Q9 (rats nest)?
- requires board removal, see above

7) What resistance is the light and dark  LDR's (LDR1, :LDR2, LDR3)?
 - requires desoldering, see above

Cool Do the LDR LED's (LED1, LED2, LED5) go completely out when oscillating?

-   Depends on the position of the manual control for LED1. For the other two, controlling the tremolo, this is a fixed depth, so they stay the same medium bright regarless, and just flash with the rate control. Only oscillating when Space (Red) is engaged.

9) How bright do these LED's get (do they get bright or just dimly lit)?
-   See above.

10) Does the LED for LDR3 (far right edge of the board. I believe it
is used for the Space switch, not sure) oscillate or does it just come
on when used?

Is it bright or dimly lit?

-   Only on when Time (Green) is engaged. Medium brightness.

11) Is there a second BC397B and if so, what is the location of it
(Q14 is the first)?
- requires board removal, see above

12) If there is no second BC307B, can you confirm the following:

BC549 - Q1, Q2, Q4, Q6, Q8, Q9, Q11, Q12, Q13, Q16, Q17

BC307B - Q14 (obviously)

J113 - Q3, Q5, Q7, Q10,Q15

- requires board removal, see above

13) If you have it, What is the light and dark resistance of the light
jack (I believe it to be 100K dark, but not sure)?

14) You may need to download the latest wiring diagram from
electristorm's dropbox for the following:

Confirm wiring connections, if incorrect, where does the incorrect
wire connet to?
- requires board removal, see above

If the wiring diagram is correct and if I have a connection going to a
designator that is incorrect (for instance, I have the Time Out jack
connecting to the OEP1200 transformer. The designation I gave them was
"C" and "F") would you provide the correct designation?

- requires board removal, see above

15) On the outside of the flanger, are the Red, Green and Yellow LED's
bright or dim when on?

-   With the settings as you want them, Loop (yellow) is always on but not bright when engaged. Time (Green) is on and dim when engaged, Space (Red) is on and Dim when engaged. Switching the LFO to square wave for the Space increases the brightness a tad.  Increasing manual and or depth increases the brightness of Time (Green).
-   LED 1 on the daughter board is the Time LED (flange / delay LFO control). IT behaves in the opposite to the Time footswitch LED when Manual is adjusted.

When you take the voltage readings for the transistors, IC and any
other voltage, set the controls to the following:

Manual, Depth, Rate, I/P Gain - Fully CCW (counter-clock-wise)
Reaction, Action - 12 o'clock
LFO selector - setting closest to the controls ( first selection from the top)
Mono/Stereo - Mono mode
All footswitches - OFF (or what you consider to be off)
No input signal.
Nothing plugged into any of the jacks except the power jack.

Thanks A LOT Ian! This is greatly appreciated!!!


You're welcome. Thanks for your patience.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 17, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
Thanks again Ian!  ;D

At least with the voltages (and setting my PSU to 11.2v) I can do some checking around the IC's.
I had been using 9v (the manual says 12v MAX) for some testing. The LFO is working, I get a
square and triangle wave output, so I assume the transistors are correct for this section. I have
also passed some signal through the I/P Gain section, although a little weak. For the time being,
I am using a tone generator for my signal input and an audio probe for tracing signals.

Missing from the list was C6 (tatnalum cap), need that value too when you get time. I have a
10uF, 35v tant in the C6 location now for testing purposes, but it may not be the right value.

Futurlec is holding me up on some of the LDR's I ordered back in December.   :icon_frown: For now, I'll use
what I have (500k dark, 20k - 30k light) although it may not have a very large sweep.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on January 17, 2013, 08:08:41 PM
The diodes all appear to the 1n4148 type but its almost impossible to tell 100%. They look very similar to those in the dopp, and 1n4148 work there.
 The cap in front of q9 is a 10uF / 35v electro, or if you mean the box cap near there, 47nF.
upped an image with annotations to my dropbox...

Regards
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 17, 2013, 09:15:44 PM
Ian,

You're a true life saver!! Thanks so much for the info!!!

I had assumed that the cap in front of Q9 was a 10uF/35v electro and the diodes
were 1N4148, but was not entirely sure. This helps a lot. I'm still wondering if
D2 is a zener or 1N4148. I will just have to try it with both and see, but I have no control
voltage to apply to the Trig/Gate jack unless I just take a voltage between 0.7v and
15v and apply it to the Trig/Gate. The manual says this is the voltage range to
use to stop/start or reset/sync the LFO. Will try a 1N4148 there first and see how it works
when I get to that section of the LFO.

I'll also check out the newly uploaded photo.

Really appreciate your input on this project!!

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on January 18, 2013, 03:42:37 AM
Some box caps I've mislabelled as 1uf when Im fairly sure thy are 1nf
Sorry bout that
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 20, 2013, 12:15:32 AM
I have assembled the Flange ? as if it were to be boxed. All switches, jacks and wiring has been done. The I/P Gain, Depth, Rate, Manual, Action, and Reaction controls are working (after a few bad starts, will mention this later). It is flanging and has tremolo. The bias is a bit touchy on the BBD's, but I think I have it set correctly.

It produces some very unusual sounds along with the flanging. The Action and Reaction controls are "Center Off" type of controls, moving them in either direction produces slightly different sounds. The loopage foot switch only allows you to switch in or out the FX loop, nothing more. The Time foot switch seems to control the flanging portion, but also seems to interact with the tremolo. The Space foot switch seems to control the tremolo but also seem to interact with the flanger portion. I need to do some more experimentation with it.

Futurelec is holding up my order that I placed back in December. I had ordered several LDR's from them to try in the flanger. The only LDR's I have at the moment only produce a narrow "phasing" or "sweep range". They are about 5k - 10k light and 500k dark. Need 10k - 20k light, 1m dark at least and maybe something in the range of 20k - 50k light, 10m or 20m dark.

The main board LED's are diffuse green. The daughter board has a clear LED marked H.B. and have assumed it was a high brightness LED. Using a high brightness LED there causes sever ticking in the audio. I have three different diffused and tinted green LED's and tried those on the daughter board. One of them mad the ticking minimal. Now you can only hear ticking slightly when using the square wave portion of the LFO. It might be tolerable. Anyone have any suggestions?

Now, the "few bad starts" I mentioned had to do with the BBD's. I had ordered sixteen sets of MN3102/MN3207 combos from Polida on eBay. I thought I had blown the BBD's and decided to check them out in an old Radio Shack delay I had laying around (uses the same BBD's). All of the MN3102 worked fine, but out of 16 MN3207's, only four passed a delayed signal. The rest only passed a "Dry" signal. Anyone else have any problems like this before? Out of the four that were good, the delay time was shorter on them than than the original MN3207 from the RS delay. All of the MN3102's would drive the original MN3207 with no problems. I am currently using the original MN3207 from the RS delay in the flanger for now.

The substitutes at Smallbear, does anyone know if they will plug right in or do they need different voltages? I know they are pinout compatible, but not sure about voltage compatibility. Need to find some datasheets on them.

This is as far as I have gotten on the project so far. Will post some more pictures soon.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 20, 2013, 12:17:11 AM
I have assembled the Flange ? as if it were to be boxed. All switches, jacks and wiring has been done. The I/P Gain, Depth, Rate, Manual, Action, and Reaction controls are working (after a few bad starts, will mention this later). It is flanging and has tremolo. The bias is a bit touchy on the BBD's, but I think I have it set correctly.

It produces some very unusual sounds along with the flanging. The Action and Reaction controls are "Center Off" type of controls, moving them in either direction produces slightly different sounds. The loopage foot switch only allows you to switch in or out the FX loop, nothing more. The Time foot switch seems to control the flanging portion, but also seems to interact with the tremolo. The Space foot switch seems to control the tremolo but also seem to interact with the flanger portion. I need to do some more experimentation with it.

Futurelec is holding up my order that I placed back in December. I had ordered several LDR's from them to try in the flanger. The only LDR's I have at the moment only produce a narrow "phasing" or "sweep range". They are about 5k - 10k light and 500k dark. Need 10k - 20k light, 1m dark at least and maybe something in the range of 20k - 50k light, 10m or 20m dark.

The main board LED's are diffuse green. The daughter board has a clear LED marked H.B. and have assumed it was a high brightness LED. Using a high brightness LED there causes sever ticking in the audio. I have three different diffused and tinted green LED's and tried those on the daughter board. One of them mad the ticking minimal. Now you can only hear ticking slightly when using the square wave portion of the LFO. It might be tolerable. Anyone have any suggestions?

Now, the "few bad starts" I mentioned had to do with the BBD's. I had ordered sixteen sets of MN3102/MN3207 combos from Polida on eBay. I thought I had blown the BBD's and decided to check them out in an old Radio Shack delay I had laying around (uses the same BBD's). All of the MN3102 worked fine, but out of 16 MN3207's, only four passed a delayed signal. The rest only passed a "Dry" signal. Anyone else have any problems like this before? Out of the four that were good, the delay time was shorter on them than than the original MN3207 from the RS delay. All of the MN3102's would drive the original MN3207 with no problems. I am currently using the original MN3207 from the RS delay in the flanger for now.

The substitutes at Smallbear, does anyone know if they will plug right in or do they need different voltages? I know they are pinout compatible, but not sure about voltage compatibility. Need to find some datasheets on them.

This is as far as I have gotten on the project so far. Will post some more pictures soon.

Jim


Edit: Ignore this second post, not sure why it posted twice.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 20, 2013, 03:18:25 PM
I have a question about the circuit below. It is just a snippet of the whole circuit. My question is in regard to the diode in this circuit. Here's the circuit, questions to follow:

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5466/lfotriggerandgatecircui.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/lfotriggerandgatecircui.png/)

First of all, given the voltage range (0.7v - 15v), I assume the diode is to clamp the voltage at the max of 15v. Does this seem like a logical assumption? If not, what is the purpose of the diode?

Would this be a zener or a fast switching diode (such as a 1N914 or 4148)?

I have breadboarded the circuit without the diode and using a 9v trigger voltage and the circuit works just fine. Just stumped on the purpose of the diode. I do not have the actual pedal and therefore cannot read the value from the original diode. The circuit was drawn from a photo and the diode is a glass type.

Those that are more knowledgeable then me, would you shed some light on this please?

Thanks,

Jim

Edit: Posted correct picture.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 20, 2013, 05:03:40 PM
Now, the "few bad starts" I mentioned had to do with the BBD's. I had ordered sixteen sets of MN3102/MN3207 combos from Polida on eBay. I thought I had blown the BBD's and decided to check them out in an old Radio Shack delay I had laying around (uses the same BBD's). All of the MN3102 worked fine, but out of 16 MN3207's, only four passed a delayed signal. The rest only passed a "Dry" signal. Anyone else have any problems like this before? Out of the four that were good, the delay time was shorter on them than than the original MN3207 from the RS delay. All of the MN3102's would drive the original MN3207 with no problems. I am currently using the original MN3207 from the RS delay in the flanger for now.

Jim,

The bolded part above most likely explains what your problem is... I believe it is simply BAD parts from eBay.

In my personal opinion, Polida is not the best source for ICs. Rampant fakes, bad parts, etc.

If you need MN3207s... let me know and I might be able to help the cause  ;)

Other than that, I believe that Steve has MN3207s at smallbear. What are these "substitutes" that you are referring to?
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on January 20, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
I imagine cool audio v3207s
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 20, 2013, 05:12:13 PM
I imagine cool audio v3207s

You are correct sir!

I imagine that either the V3207 or BL3207s would work. I know that Steve would not have them for sale if they were not proven items.

Either way, let me know  ;)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: digi2t on January 20, 2013, 05:20:48 PM
Quote
Polida is not the best source for ICs.

Polida is on my black list, as is gc_supermarket. "gc" NOT standing for "good & cheap", but rather, "garbage & crap".

To date, I've only had luck with suppliers from Hong Kong, or Singapor. China has been totally abysmal.

Stay away from Chinese mainland suppliers.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 20, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
Yes, the V3207D (Cool Audio) and the BL3207 (from China) were the one's I was talking about. I had been told on madbean's forum that Polida was a trusted supplier for BBD's, but that really sucks having the majority of the BBD's bad (except the MN3201's, they all worked fine).

I know the two versions above are pin-for-pin compatible, the supply voltage is what I am concerned about since the Flange can be run between 9v - 12v (12v giving more headroom). But the 12v is the absolute max you can run on the Flange without risking damage. If these will run in this voltage range, there shouldn't be a problem.

Steve at SmallBear does not have any MN3207's. All I could find were MN3005, 3007, and 3008. in the MN series BBD's. If you have a reliable source for them, let me know.

On the diagram, I'm thinking maybe the diode is to help the gate function work better . Got this from a madbean forum member. But he was not entirely sure about this. We still don't know if it is a regular switching diode, zener, schottky, or whatever. The symbol was a place holder in the diagram till we could figure it out, so don't let that fool you into thinking it is definately a switching diode of some kind. It works without the diode, but I will try a 1N4148 and see what happens, can't hurt!

Ian, may not need the transistor voltages now since it seems to be working. Just not sure if it is working correctly. I had three vactrols, VTL5C3, and tried them on the main board. They sounded better than the LDR's I currently have (still waiting on Futurelec!!). I later swapped one onto the daughter board and it killed the delay entirely. Setting the bias had no effect at all. So that one will have to have a "roll your own" it looks like. The ticking was almost inaudible with the green LED on the daughter board. It's more of a thumping sound now when in square wave mode. Is the the way it is supposed to work?
isThanks guys!

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: toneman on January 20, 2013, 10:46:12 PM
Probably just a normal 914 or 4148. 

Looks like it's acting as a clamping diode to protect the transistor.

The diode will shunt negative spikes to gnd.

The capacitor, C1, blocks DC from the base of the Q1.

If U were to put 1VDC directly on the base of the transistor, it would go POOF!

R9 limits the current for a DC Gate signal to Q1.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 21, 2013, 01:52:19 PM
Here's a photo update on the Lovetone Flanger:

Top side (the LED/LDR is missing from the daughter board)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img62/8899/1004467j.jpg)

What I call the rat's nest
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5719/1004471g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/1004471g.jpg/)

Back side
(http://imageshack.us/a/img707/7817/1004472cw.jpg)

Switches
(http://imageshack.us/a/img842/6403/1004475i.jpg)


The big black things toward the bottom center are Vactrols (VTL5C3) that I am trying for now. So far, they sound better than the LDR/LED combos but that may be due to the fact I don't have all the LDR's yet to try. The Vactrols don't work for the daughter board. It kills the delay and re-setting the bias does nothing for it.

Using a green diffused LED on the daughter board seems to eliminate the ticking. There is a thumping sound only on the square wave selection of the LFO. The manual mentions something about thumping when selecting the square wave. I guess this is what it what it is talking about. The triangle wave gives a decent sweep, but maybe it could be better with different LDR's. Just a guess.

I have obtained some flanger sounds but can't seem to nail the chorus sound yet. The rate for the LFO is selectable from an extremely SLOW rate to an over-the-top fast oscillation. At the upper end of the rate control I can get a sort of ring modulation sound.

I added the 1N4148 diode to the D2 location and will re-test this later.

That's about it for now.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 21, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
Jim,

Sounds like you are almost there. I am guessing that once you get your LDRs in that you will get the EUREKA moment!  ;D

As for the LED on the daughter board... Don't all of the pictures show a diffused green LED in that spot DESPITE the board indicating a HB one? Food for thought. MAybe Lovetone "thought" it needed to be HB but, later they found out that it was not working but they already had the boards made.

Awesome work though. I have a feeling that once you get this thing working..... it is gonna catch on like wildfire!

Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 21, 2013, 11:47:41 PM
Greg,

Lacesensor did say the LED on the daughter board was a clear green, but only glowed at about medium brightness. So, like you and Lacesensor said, it will be a
diffused green LED. The VTL5C3 measures more than 20M for dark, but I haven't measured the light value yet. They seem to work good for the main board just,
a bit expensive though! Hopefully, I can find an LED/LDR combo that will work there. You could also be right about the H.B. on the Lovetone boards. They probably
already had them made and went with what they had, plus it would throw people like us off the trail so to speak!! LOL

Toneman asked for the schematic and has also asked for a set of boards to mess with. I sent him the schemo and am checking with the guy that made my boards
to see if the price is still the same. I've been contemplating making a smaller double sided boards, but they might have to have SMD parts due to the number of
components on them. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, for now I just want to get it going. Do you want a set of boards, depending on the price, if he will do
another set for me? Lacesensor may or may not be interested in a set too.

I have finished a set of wiring diagrams to replace the one I posted earlier. Much neater and readable, but it is three pages. Got to get around to making a build doc
on this. I have a parts BOM somewhat ready. The schematics for the main board print out too small because it is so huge. I've been looking at the main board trying
to figure a way to squeeze those components near Q9 onto the board instead of to the other components, but may have to do a re-design of the board. Then more
debugging and so on. Will have to see what can be done.

I described what sounds I have obtained from it so far, but I can't seem to get a chorus sound from it. I am going to order some BBD's from Steve at Smallbear and try
those in there. I finally found some data sheets on the ones he carries and it looks like they will plug right in without worrying about the supply voltage. They were all
rated for up to 10volts.

I was looking at a formula for initially setting the bias for the BBD. It was:

Vbias = 0.42 + (0.54 * Vdd)

Then, from what I've read, you fine tune it to get rid of the distortion. What do you think? and, if you want to find Vdd for whatever reason, use this:

Vdd = (Vbias -.042)/.054

Anyway, still learning about these BBD's (and LED/LDR combos too). But the flanger appears to be working. Whether it is working correctly or not is another story!!  ???

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on January 22, 2013, 07:16:58 AM
Jim,

As for the boards, we discussed this via PM and I will probably just etch my own since I have a lot of copper PCB on hand.

If you decide to do a smaller board, you may want to try to avoid SMD. It tends to scare a lot of people away. That being said, if you can work out the hodge podge of parts around Q9 and get them a proper place on the board.... GREAT! If not, then it is not a major problem.  ;D

If I were you, I would email Futurlec and cancel the order. You can get a bag of 10K/1M LDRs on fleabay for about $3-5  8) AND... they will probably arrive faster than Futurlec!!!

As for the BBD biasing. If you have access to an oscope and sig gen, all you need to do is inject a small sine wave into the circuit and adjust the bias trim until you get the best UNCLIPPED waveform at the BBD input.

Good Luck and let me know if you need anything else!  ;)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: LaceSensor on January 22, 2013, 03:58:57 PM
for the avoidance of doubt the LED on the Lovetone chips board is clear (see through) but glows green.
It looks like a high bright water clear to me. But as I found with the Doppelganger, diffuse greens work best with the available LDRs that I could source, and that will no doubt be the case here.
Experimentation is the key, unless you wish to find a vintage Lovetone, but it, and start desoldering the vactrols to find out what LDRs they actually used, and the fV of the LEDs....

Looking forward to a full project doc...hope you plan to make one...
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 22, 2013, 11:05:01 PM
Quote
Looking forward to a full project doc...hope you plan to make one...

When this is finished, there will be a build doc. I have started one, but it is incomplete at the moment.

Looking a bit ahead, I'm trying to figure out how to box it up. Found a Hammond enclosure that might
work, but it's a little bigger than the original box the flanger was in. What do you suggest?

I have placed an order for some LDR's on eBay, we'll see how that goes. Futurelec is a lost cause at
the moment.  :icon_frown:

Greg, I finally bought a scope and have it on the bench now. I've ordered some BBD's from Smallbear and
when they come in, I'll try the scope on the input of the BBD to set the bias as you described. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: digi2t on January 23, 2013, 09:41:54 AM
Quote
Looking a bit ahead, I'm trying to figure out how to box it up. Found a Hammond enclosure that might
work, but it's a little bigger than the original box the flanger was in. What do you suggest?

I put my Ringstinger build into one of these, http://canada.newark.com/multicomp/g124mf/box-diecast-222x146x55mm/dp/55T2820 (http://canada.newark.com/multicomp/g124mf/box-diecast-222x146x55mm/dp/55T2820) . They are also available in grey and black, yet I haven`t found them without ears yet. Personally, I like the ears, and mount rails on them. I guess if you really don`t want the ears, you could just cut them off.

Build pics, featuring said enclosure, are here, http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97115.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97115.0)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 23, 2013, 10:52:10 AM
Digi2t, nice build thread!

The box looks pretty neat too. I also see someone asked about the BC549's being used instead of BC549C, but the question wasn't really addressed. A substitute was mentioned (2N5089's). I ordered BC549C, but received BC549's instead. They seem to work OK. Would like to try the C's in there though to see if there's a real difference. Not sure if I have any 2N5089's laying around or not. If I do, I'll try them out.

Hopefully, I'm getting to the point where I can entertain some mods/ideas for mods. I'm better at reverse engineering than design, so I would need a little assistance there.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 24, 2013, 12:51:17 PM
The wiring has been verified and the project is moving along. Still in the debugging stages and waiting for a few more parts to come in. The I/P Gain issue of being too weak may be due to the wrong transistor being used. I had ordered BC549C's but received BC549's. After consulting with Govmnt_Lacky and Toneman, it was discovered that the BC549C has an Hfe of 600 while the BC549 has an Hfe of 200. This is most likely the cause of the weak gain. I will order the BC549C's and try that in the flanger then post the results later.

Here are the wiring diagrams:

Main and Daughter Board wiring
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7077/maindaughterboardwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/maindaughterboardwiring.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7077/maindaughterboardwiring.png (http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7077/maindaughterboardwiring.png)


Main Board Jack wiring
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1106/mainboardjackwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/mainboardjackwiring.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img593/1106/mainboardjackwiring.png (http://imageshack.us/a/img593/1106/mainboardjackwiring.png)


Main Board Switch Wiring
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8779/mainboardswitchwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/mainboardswitchwiring.png/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8779/mainboardswitchwiring.png (http://imageshack.us/a/img854/8779/mainboardswitchwiring.png)

Better images are in the dropbox folder (link is in my signature below)

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on January 29, 2013, 04:45:31 PM
To update everyone, here is the latest on the Lovetone Flanger.

I used a 1N4148 for D2 and tested the Gate/Trig jack's function. It works just as described in the users manual.

After trying as many combinations of "Roll Your Own" vactrols as I could (some of my LDR's are still not here), actual vactrols seem to work best for the tremolo effect of the pedal. The VTL5C3 works best for the main board, however, it really sucks on the daughter board. When using the vactrols on the daughter board, it produces a ticking sound when the LFO is set to the triangle wave output and a severe thumping sound when the LFO uses the square wave output. This only seems to happen when the "Time" switch is engaged (allowing you to use the delay or daughter board for flanging/chorus/vibe). I have tried several "roll your own" vactrols with some success, just haven't hit the correct combination yet. I'll let you know when I stumble upon a combination that works here. The square wave output produces thumping with or without the delay engaged and the manual mentions a thumping sound when switching the LFO from triangle to square wave so I assume this is normal. Maybe Lacesensor can comment on this as he has the original flanger.

But for now it looks like VTL5C3's will be used on the main board in my build. A close second is the diffused green LED with an LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark 20M for LDR1/LED1 and LDR2/LED2. For LDR3/LED5, this just turns on/off the "Regen" portion of the board when the "Time" switch is engaged. When the "Time" switch is off, the LDR blocks the signal from going through the regen circuit (Action and Reaction controls). Either a VTL5C3 work fine here and the VTL5C2 works ok. A diffused green LED and and LDR works good here also. An LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark at least 1M but Dark 10M ~ 20M works better. This will have to be selected for your own personal tastes for the Regen circuit. The dark 1M seemed to allow slight regen bleed-through into the signal when off, but was minimal. I believe the idea was to cut if off entirely.

The BBD's from Smallbear seem to work better than the BBD's from Polida. While the one's from Polida did seem to work ok (provided you get a set that are not dead!!), the range in delay was less than the Smallbear BBD's and all BBD's seemed to have less delay time than my original Panasonic BBD's (MN3207) Doesn't seem to matter which clock IC was used (MN3102, V3201D, BL3102). All clock IC's seemed to work with the other BBD's with no noticeable difference in sound. However, the Cool Audio BBD's did seem to work better than the BBD's from China that Smallbear sells. But overall, both seemed to be acceptable. I did have one BBD that seems to cut in and out (BL3207 from China) but no problem with the Cool Audio BBD's.

For those interested in how the flanger works, here is a block diagram for you to look at.

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3937/lovetoneflangerblockdia.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/lovetoneflangerblockdia.jpg/)

Explanation from the manual:

(Block diagram is simplified and not necessarily theoretically correct)

Input signal level is adjusted by the I/P Gain control, which also affects the bypass level. The signal is then split into two main paths: (a) straight path which comes out at Space(d) Out/Mono (via Space mod) and (b) delay path which goes via the FX loop (normalized if nothing is connected) into the delay line. The Reaction control (center-zero/off) sets the level of Regen/Feedback which is fed back in before the FX loop. The FX loop is therefore included in the Regen path (c). The delay path then goes via the Time footswitch and out at Time Out at a level which is determined by the Action control (center-zero/off). When the Time footswitch is "off" the delay path is bypassed completely and the output of the I/P Gain section goes straight to Time Out as shown by (d). The LFO can be used to modulate the delay time at an amount set by the Depth control and/or the straight path to create Space mod  (at a fixed amount if selected by the Space footswitch). If nothing is connected to Time Out, it's output will automatically be routed to Space(d) Out/Mono as shown by (e) and summed with Space mod to create a mono output.

According to the manual, you need to understand the above explanation in order to understand how the controls work.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on February 19, 2013, 06:45:50 PM
Got a new set of boards for the flanger that I had revised to accommodate the components that have to be hand soldered to other components on the main board. There were two areas that were revised, both in the lower right-hand corner of the board. I got a chance to dry fit the components to check for clearence with other components and the fit was very good! Once I get a final bug worked out on the original build i can post the full project and the new boards will allow you to solder components to the board without worry of doing that awkward soldering of the factory added mods.

The build docs are coming along slowly.... Hope to have this wrapped up soon. Will post some more pictures soon.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on March 20, 2013, 11:47:30 PM
Sorry to have been away so long, but life gets in the way sometimes.

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Strategy on March 21, 2013, 01:09:56 AM
way to go, very exciting, I hope to build one!
strategy

Sorry to have been away so long, but life gets in the way sometimes.

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on April 08, 2013, 02:57:36 PM
More progress was made on the boards. There has been one more revision to the boards that is more consistent with the original board labeling for components and wires that connect to the board. Also, everything I'll be posting has been verified and any diagrams that have been posted earlier should be ignored.

This is not the latest revised board, but it does contain the revisions made for the hand soldered components of the factory mods. There is now an area on the board to place these components on the PCB.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9654/1004513n.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1004513n.jpg/)

Here is a picture of the components that are now board mounted.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img4/6013/1004479g.jpg)


Corrected wiring diagrams:

Main/Daughter Board Wiring
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7077/maindaughterboardwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/maindaughterboardwiring.png/)

Main Board and Jack Wiring:
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1106/mainboardjackwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/mainboardjackwiring.png/)

Main Board and Switch Wiring:
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8779/mainboardswitchwiring.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/mainboardswitchwiring.png/)

I'll post more later.

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on May 18, 2013, 11:13:52 PM
Hello everyone, sorry to have been away for so long. I had some computer problems which are now resolved.

Now to the good news.  :icon_biggrin:

The Lovetone ? Flange has now been successfully cloned and the build docs are now available. It is called the ! No Name Flange. To get the build docs, just click on the link in my signature below and download the build docs and the user's manual (if you need it). I currently have no way of making and posting sound clips, but a user on Mad Bean Pedals forum may post some soon (his username is AlanP and he has already made and boxed his project).

I hope to hear from those that build the clone and get their feedback on the project. I have someone that will make boards if you would like a set. I have to work out the cost with them for making the boards, but they most likely will be in the $30 - $40 range. The enclosure used was a 1550G and accommodates the project nicely with a little room left over.

There is one very minor error on the build docs, but it does not affect the project. The black and blue wires going from "J" and "GND" are shown one way on the Main/Daughter board wiring and shown reversed on the Main and Switch wiring for the Loopage switch and Loopage LED. It doesn't really matter which way you wire it as it only supplies a ground path for the yellow LED when the Loopage is engaged. So it will work either way.

I hope that you enjoy the ? Flanger clone!!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on May 21, 2013, 03:45:57 PM
Alanp over at mad bean pedals forum graciously gave me permission to post his demo videos of the
Lovetone ? Flange V1 Clone (the clone is officially called the ! No Name Flange) and I wanted to give
him credit and thank him for allowing me to post these videos to another forum.



Quote
Got my man Ironbird13 to do some video for me. This is the second one, with the Lady muff running into it (plus expression
pedal.) We tried stereo, sounds funky, especially since one amp was a 2204 JCM800 (80s marshall) and the other a 5E8A
(50s Fender tweed.) The FX loop... oscillated with the Lady in it, and was a bit muddy with the Dub Dweller (but then that's a
dark, lo-fi delay.)



Quote
Clean flange, no expression, no loop, nothing before or after (IIRC, the reverb might get turned on.)

Now you can hear what the clone sounds like!

Thanks again Alanp

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: electricstorm on May 23, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
I have received a lot of email about the ! No Name Flange (Lovetone ? Flange clone) and it has been all good
so far. Thanks everyone for the compliments! I hope more of you build the clone and report back as I am
interested in hearing about your experiences with it.

I want to thank AlanP again for telling me about a substitute transformer that will fit the board without any
modifications and is cheaper than the OEP1200 that was used. The transformer is a Bourns LM-NP-1001-B1L
and can be purchased at Mouser for $1.78. The OEP1200 was $3.98. I'm all for finding cheaper alternatives!

Jim
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on August 20, 2013, 07:35:47 AM
Hey, great thread and much respect to all those who contributed into the tracing and development of this beast. 
You can add me to the list of people who are going to take a crack at building this.

Im gathering the parts and was wondering if ebay was a dodgy source for mn chips.  I know theres a load of fake mn3005s out there but does the same apply for the 3102s?

I was thinking about ordering either:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1P-PANASONIC-MN3207-1P-MN3102-CHORUS-FLANGER-BBD-IC-/360300891762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e39b4e72

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MN3102-Panasonic-CLOCK-GENERATOR-DRIVER-CMOS-LSI-FOR-BBD-IC-/181175289707?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2a2ee3876b

Any thoughts?
Cheers.
 :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 20, 2013, 08:33:38 AM
@HM

When it comes to eBay, you take your chances. Good prices but..... you could get some bad parts.

If you have the time, you can always give it a try. Ask around for reputable sellers.

If you want to save time and breathe easy.... go to a reputable source.

Good Luck. THIS PEDAL KILLS!  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on August 31, 2013, 06:31:58 PM
Thanks Patrick Bateman. 

So, Im half way through building this thing.  I was initially planning to fit it in a metal enclosure but on a whim I bought a clear plastic box instead as I thought it would look cool, a 1591E I think .

Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

Cheers
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 31, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

A plastic enclosure could go either way. The smart money would be to use an aluminum enclosure though  ;)

Is the plastic enclosure transparent in any way? If it is, you WILL run into problems with ambient light hitting the LDRs. Unless you plan to use sealed vactrols OR enclose the LDRs in something.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: alanp on August 31, 2013, 07:43:38 PM
Biasing it is pretty cool, actually, with the bare board sitting on the bench (unless you're smart, unlike me, and put a trimmer in you can adjust from the track side while the board is mounted) with ALL the LED's pulsating in the darkness :)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: newperson on September 01, 2013, 02:57:20 AM
Neat build.  Congrats on the journey and props for putting up the build docs!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on September 01, 2013, 08:00:06 PM
Anyway, I just realised that I wont get the shielding from the plastic box like I would with the aluminium. Does that matter?  I guess it would seeing that the project needs some shielded wires.  Any advice?

A plastic enclosure could go either way. The smart money would be to use an aluminum enclosure though  ;)

Is the plastic enclosure transparent in any way? If it is, you WILL run into problems with ambient light hitting the LDRs. Unless you plan to use sealed vactrols OR enclose the LDRs in something.

Yep, the enclosure is transparent, I thought the PCB would look cool in a clear box.  Still, I'll go with the metal one then. 
Where did you get the LDRs from. Im planning to use vactrols on the main board but ldrs on the the daughter board. 

Incidenally, it was the flange builds that you and alanp did that inspired me to build my own.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on September 01, 2013, 08:16:20 PM
@HM

I used the same LDRs for all of the positions. On the main board, you need to use DIFFUSED GREEN LEDs. On the daughter board it MUST be a HIGH BRIGHTNESS WATER CLEAR GREEN LED.

As for the LDRs, I "believe" I used somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-30K Light and 20M dark.

I will try to get a part number soon for you  ;)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: alanp on September 01, 2013, 09:27:03 PM
I'm amazingly unpicky, but bog standard diffused green seemed to work nearly everywhere for me, with 20k/20M ldr's.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on November 19, 2013, 02:53:38 AM
So, im getting no sound with the pedal on but clean signal is going to amp when bypassed.

I suspect that my mn3102 is duff - measuring 0v on all 8 pins so ill order a replacement.

Would a duff 3102 account for the lack of signal when the pedal is activated?
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: alanp on November 19, 2013, 03:35:02 AM
The ?Flange is NOT true bypass, so if you're getting clean bypass signal then the pedal itself is working (or at least the buffer circuitry is.)

Pin 1 of the MN3102 should be getting +VA -- 8.86V according to Electricstorm's build docs. If it's not, trace back where you've missed something.

I used the BL chipset from Smallbear, sounds good.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on November 19, 2013, 03:47:21 PM
Thanks alan, appreciate the help. Ill get tracing
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 19, 2013, 03:50:39 PM
TIP:

Make sure you have ALL of the wires going to the daughter board. I fired mine up and I got no modulation...... only to realize that I missed the Ground connection to the board  :icon_redface:

Also, if you etched your own.... the traces on the daughter board are especially tight  :icon_eek: Check for bridges between the traces and for solder runs.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on November 20, 2013, 02:43:59 AM
TIP:

Make sure you have ALL of the wires going to the daughter board. I fired mine up and I got no modulation...... only to realize that I missed the Ground connection to the board  :icon_redface:

Also, if you etched your own.... the traces on the daughter board are especially tight  :icon_eek: Check for bridges between the traces and for solder runs.

Good Luck!

Problem solved.  It was a really thin trace on the daughter board - from the 330R to pin 1 on mn3102.  I remember after I etched it, I thought it looked suspect and was planning to jumper a wire but forgot.  Anyway, jumper added and getting signal now with the pedal on but couldnt do more than that last night as was late and sleeping baby.  Will try biasing tonight.
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: alanp on November 20, 2013, 02:55:16 AM
Dead cool :) I expect you to put my india ink to shame!
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 20, 2013, 11:59:57 AM
Problem solved.  It was a really thin trace on the daughter board - from the 330R to pin 1 on mn3102. 

Are you quite sure this info is correct? According to the layout and schematic.... The 330R is supposed to be connected to the MN3102 Pin 1  ???

Are you sure you didn't mean there was a bridge to the MN3207 Pin 3 or 4? Or even to the MN3102 Pin 2?

Definitely make sure the right ICs are in the right spots. And verify their orientation  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: alanp on November 20, 2013, 12:04:11 PM
The Brown Wire connection to the daughterboard goes through a 330R first (R2), after which is VA. (It's separate from main board VA by that 330R.)
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 20, 2013, 12:11:24 PM
The Brown Wire connection to the daughterboard goes through a 330R first (R2), after which is VA. (It's separate from main board VA by that 330R.)

Correct. But, the way it is described, there should be a connection from the daughterboard 330R to Pin 1 of the MN3102. This leads me to believe either there was a mistake in the explanation of where the solder bridge was -OR- the ICs on the daughter board are not positioned/oriented correctly..... which is really bad  :-\
Title: Re: Lovetone Flange With No Name - Clone Thread
Post by: hangingmonkey on November 20, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Ah, perhaps I didnt explain my post correctly.  There were no solder bridges, the copper trace from 330r to pin 1 of 3102 was dodgy, really thin and there was no continuity so I just added a jumper over that trace.
(on page 21 of the build doc, if you look on the etch, between pin 3 and 4 of 3207, theres a really thin trace going between the 2 pins - mine didnt etch that well)