Line 6 will be announcing a Tonecore Development kit at AES next week, it seems it enables the creation of tonal landscape and presets by the user of the kit..
http://www.vettaville.nl/vvlatestnewsnl.htm
This is interesting. I would like to know what the costs are, is there an SDK, and if a NDA is required. Gotta keep an eye on this.
Andrew
Interesting. Shortly before Jeorge Tripps left Line 6 for the offer-he-couldn't-refuse from Dunlop, he had put out a call for 3rd party developers to come up with modules for the Tone Core series (you can find threads about it here if you dig back a bit). My sense was that they had made some sort of corporate decision to take advantage of the modularity of the series and generate "left of center" modules that consumers wouldn't mind spending $50 on, as a module, even though they might balk at spend $100 on if it only came with the dock as a full pedal. I know several people here had taken up the challenge, but the big hurdle was the lack of a development system that L6 sheepishly admitted they could not supply, so developers were kind of left in the lurch. When I saw Behringer announcing that they would be releasing clones of 5 or 6 of the pedals in the Tone Core line this past summer, I put that and the radio-silence of the 3rd-party-module side together and thought that L6 had essentially decided to abandon the Tone Core line and simply sell off remaining inventory. I hope the coming of a development system breathes some life back into the product line. It was and remains a good idea and a decent range of products. What it needs is a broader range, and what it needs for that is to bring in 3rd-party developers. Better bring them in fast, too, if it wants to survive the digital onslaught that EHX and others are starting to provide.
Yes, the simplicity of the modules (pots and a chip, and connector) makes all kinds of low volume, oddball, specialized effects possible. All the manufacturer has to change is the silkscreened label, and the code on the chip.
Have any numbers been released on the line? There are some good effects in there. It would be a shame to seem them dropped. I guess I better stop procrastinating on that RotoMachine.
Before I inadvertently start a panic, there seems to be ample distribution of the pedal line. The prices have come down a bit, but that's likely in response to the competing products that have emerged since the line was launched 3 years ago. There has been no sudden drastic drop in retail price similar to what we saw when Alesis phased out their line of little digital effects boxes (the faze, the phlnger, bitrman) or when Electrix dropped the prices on their Filter Factory before it died. Still, it has been 2 years since anything new has been added to the product line, and that's a long time to sit still in this industry.
Time for me to quite procrastinating on the Verbzilla and Echo Park. The Roto Machine and LiquiFlange are both excellent...
I only have the Echo Park, but it's a lot of fun.
If you have never done so yet, plug your instrument into input A and run its output through a second pedal of some type that lets you control output level (to prevent runaway oscillation) and feed that into output B. Send B to your amp. Every repeat will be different. Your neighbours and family may regret it, but you won't. :icon_mrgreen:
Wanna get really crazy? Plug into channel A in a Liqui-Flange and run its output to Channel A on the Echo Park. Now take the output of the EP and take that back to the other input on the Liqui-Flange, running its remaining output into the other channel of the EP. Feed that output to the amp. If you have two amps, then you can send one output of the Liqui-Flange to one amp and use the other side of the Liqui-Flange as the patched-in effect in the first example.
Okay, now get your best fuzz, plug your guitar in, and feed the fuzz to the Liqui-Flange. Before you hit a chord, be sure to call in sick to work, cancel any and all appointments for the next 24hrs, make sure someone is looking after the kids and pets, set up some pillows to fall back on, move any sharp or dangerous objects out of the way, take a Gravol and any meds you normally have to take, and THEN hit a chord. :icon_twisted:
This might also be an attempt to squeeze some more life out of the series without having to put much R&D into it. Not to start rumours but it is a common ploy by companies that when a product series is looking like it is going to be discontinued they open up the architecture to see if someone will create something to bring the product back to life.
I'm really waiting to see what they are going to offer. Right it seems to be all press releases.
Andrew
Well this was what Jeorge was trying to do before he left Line 6. My guess is that Peter Snowberg and Sean Costello would be more in the loop about what happened over the preceding 18 months than I would. There were several notable holes in the product line, though, like an octave-related product, a phaser, and a ring-modulator, and lots of other possibilities for unusual use-it-now-and-then effects that people might be willing to plunk down $40-50 for a module on but not $120 for a module+dock. My sense was that they were hoping to extend the line in that way. But that's just speculation and a guess about what the system lends itself to nicely, and not informed by ANY discussion with any of the relevant parties.
At some point, maybe long ago, the dock became available separately. That's enough to make a guy like me buy a module, then two months later buy the dock when I realize I can't live without the effect.
Unfortunately for Line 6, I think there are people who will view their products as crap, no matter what they produce.
Quote from: Dave_B on October 04, 2007, 03:55:19 PM
At some point, maybe long ago, the dock became available separately. That's enough to make a guy like me buy a module, then two months later buy the dock when I realize I can't live without the effect.
When several of us here (Aron, Jack, and myself that I know of) got invited to beta-test the first pedals in the series, the "magic black button" lept out at me. I asked about it, and though they were tight-lipped, it seemed to me that it was too accessible to NOT be part of some grand plan whether they wanted to admit it or not. A year later and the second half of the series came out but still no word regarding future modules. Then about 8-12 months after the second part of the series came out the docks and modules were offered separately and the call for developers came here. It IS possible that the intent was simply to make it possible for someone to buy a couple of docks and the whole series of modules, without ever extending the series at all. I don't have any inside information about it, though.
does anyone know what a tonecore dock consists of? even if there are switching circuit, some 9V/5V regulators and so on it shouldn't be hard to adapt a BB sized enclosure to accept modules. I'd be interested in doing something like this cause look of this pedals is a main reason i haven't got any of them yet.
PS. sorry for a little OT
Quote from: michal_k on October 04, 2007, 05:47:38 PM
does anyone know what a tonecore dock consists of? even if there are switching circuit, some 9V/5V regulators and so on it shouldn't be hard to adapt a BB sized enclosure to accept modules. I'd be interested in doing something like this cause look of this pedals is a main reason i haven't got any of them yet.
PS. sorry for a little OT
Hi, I peaked inside my dock and echo park module, its kind of counter intuitive, the dock is the entire DSP system, and the module is nothing but the crummy little pots, and an eprom or something with the program on it. cloning it would probably impossible for the hobbyist, let alone utterly thankless, given the less desirable pedals (w/ the docks) go for like $50 or less used. If I were Satan, I would make pedal builders sit down right next to the guy rolling the boulder up the hill, and try and fit handmade tonecore clones in 1590BB boxes, for my unholy pedalboard.
Hey guys,
just got back from the first day of the AES convention. After some lectures and paper sessions, I headed to the exhibition area to find the Line 6 booth. and there wasnt any.... just when i had given up hope I was walking past the a booth and i saw some line 6 gear!! Line 6 didnt have a booth but freescale semi (who apparently makes a bunch of the DSP chips that line 6 uses) did have one. I started talking to them about the development kit. so here is what i gathered.
there will be and SDK it will be the freescale SDK that is freeware, i am not sure if it is the same as their other DSP stuff but that was the vibe i got. i did not get a ball park price.
the blank module was pretty cool, it had about 6 pots on it, so hopefully when they release ithas six because that will allow for more options.
sorry for the disorganized thoughts, I am writing this and simultaneously working on my AI project with my partner
if you have any questions you want me to ask the freescale people let me know and ill ask tomorrow
Jose M
Quote from: Processaurus on October 04, 2007, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: michal_k on October 04, 2007, 05:47:38 PM
does anyone know what a tonecore dock consists of? even if there are switching circuit, some 9V/5V regulators and so on it shouldn't be hard to adapt a BB sized enclosure to accept modules. I'd be interested in doing something like this cause look of this pedals is a main reason i haven't got any of them yet.
PS. sorry for a little OT
Hi, I peaked inside my dock and echo park module, its kind of counter intuitive, the dock is the entire DSP system, and the module is nothing but the crummy little pots, and an eprom or something with the program on it. cloning it would probably impossible for the hobbyist, let alone utterly thankless, given the less desirable pedals (w/ the docks) go for like $50 or less used. If I were Satan, I would make pedal builders sit down right next to the guy rolling the boulder up the hill, and try and fit handmade tonecore clones in 1590BB boxes, for my unholy pedalboard.
Yep, that's what's so brilliant about it. Line 6 arranges to have one mono and one stereo dock designed and built, and produced a bunch of them. The modules are the "personality" and basically the cheapest part of the entire system. It includes whatever EPROM is needed to reprogram the DSP appropriately, plus the switches, pots, and legended panel. There may well be some additional circuitry in there to permit all those pots and switchs to occupy require fewer pins on an edge connector, but that's pretty much it. Not only are they cheap to build, but shipping is about as cheap as you can get. I don't particularly see it on the horizon. but if we wanted to speculate wildly, it would not be at all unreasonable to sell a "variety pack" of a half-dozen modules in one of the little cardboard boxes a full pedal comes in for $200 plus a coupla bucks for shipping. They'd still make money on the deal.
Here's some more info from freescale
http://www.vettaville.nl/vvtonecore.htm
The key phrase is this one: "The ToneCore DSP Developer Kit from Line 6 will be available for purchase in the first half of 2008. Designers can purchase ToneCore Programmable Modules from Line 6, configure them with the ToneCore DSP Developer Kit and sell their Modules to music stores or directly to musicians."
So that's the deal. L6 wants to make the docks and module blanks a business line on their own.
One of the problems with the "open architecture to sell more" plan is you are betting on how many companies would want to become dependant on another company's architecture. For smaller groups it sometimes work but you probably won't see any decent size company jump on this for fear that they would become hostage to the host architecture company.
Much of the success of this I believe will be based on the the cost of the SDK. If it is low enough for small companies and individuals to get a hold of it they have a chance.
Andrew
I just heard about the ToneCore developer kit coming back myself...
Here's some links:
http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1059553&highlight (http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1059553&highlight)
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3YNQJMTAVCAUMQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=202101466 (http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3YNQJMTAVCAUMQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=202101466)
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3YNQJMTAVCAUMQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=202401094 (http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3YNQJMTAVCAUMQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=202401094)
Looks like Freescale (Motorola) got into it...
EE Times:
A day at AES 2007: A selected pictorial tour
I also stopped by Freescale Semiconductor's booth for a demonstration of the ToneCore DSP Developer Kit, a kit that lets software developers easily create custom guitar effects for ToneCore guitar pedals from music gear manufacturer Line 6. The kit includes a Developer ToneCore dock, which uses a Freescale Symphony audio DSP, which is then used to program a Freescale microcontroller-based ToneCore programmable module.
This Freescale microcontroller-based ToneCore Programmable Module from Line 6 can be easily programmed with custom guitar effects and then used in a ToneCore guitar pedal at any time.
(http://i.cmpnet.com/audiodesignline/2007/10/line6_dev_mod.gif)
-Mr. Huge
This sounds like something I could get into!!!!!!!
I think two major issues will be cost and if a NDA is required. If it is cheap-ish and there is no NDA required we could use this platform to develop on here. The biggest issue for the DSP stuff has been getting a hardware configuration for people to work on.
Andrew
Any more info on this? People to contact, etc?
My guess is that there probably will be an NDA, as there was back when this was offered before. My hope is that there is comprehensive documentation, and hopefully some useful example code - not necessarily a fully functional Line 6 algorithm, but something that is simple to modify.
Sean Costello