Well as noted earlier, here it is announced officially.
Line 6, Inc. announces the ToneCore™ DSP Developer Kit, a programmable stomp box effects development platform that enables anyone with a PC and an interest in Digital Signal Processing to become a hardware effects developer and distributor.
http://www.vettaville.nl/news.php#609
I just saw this too!
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM08/Content/Line6/PR/ToneCore-Developer-Kit.html
I have no experience with this stuff, but as the very happy owner of three tone core pedals, I'd love to know how hard it could be to get started with this stuff.
This is one of the coolest things ive seen from NAMM this year. it will be great to have a common hardware device that is powerful enough to do high quality effects.
i think ill be getting myself one.
That HC article says the dev kit will cost $199 and include one programming dock and one module. That's well within a hobbyist's budget, even just for one reprogrammable pedal for personal use.
I'm pretty sure I'll be getting one!
-- T. G. --
Interesting.
Andrew
I doubt that programming this box will be easy. The Motorola DSP's (Freescale now) are not supposed to be easy to program via C code - the compiler does not generate efficient code from C, so you will probably need to learn Motorola assembler in order to get decent performance out of the chip. Plus, fixed-point DSP programming is a pretty big shift from programming VST plugins and the like, which can run floating point code.
Having said that, Motorola assembler is reputed to be fairly simple, compared to other assembler codes (like TI). The big advantage of the Tonecore kit: $199, instead of the $1000 required for comparable Freescale development kit ($750 for the EVM, plus $250 for the corresponding 56364 daughter card). Having a working pedal code example as a starting point will be very useful.
Sean Costello
On the cost front, I just found this:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=SYMP_SOUNDBITE
$150 for a development board. Lots of input/outputs. Since the compiler is free, this is a GREAT deal (as a way of contrast, most of the ADI boards cost $500, and come with a crippled compiler - to use all of the code memory on board the DSP requires VisualDSP++, which is $4K).
Still, the Line 6 stuff seems more immediately useable for guitarist types.
Sean Costello
My other thought is that if this is a line 6 thing, does anyone think that they will host a site in which you would be able to upload your codes to for other people to download into their pedals?
Much like with the patches for the Yamaha Magicstomp but more complex.
another guitar forum i use www.thestompbox.net have a patch exchange site, when the tone core modules are released im sure a new section would be added.
Anyone found any updates on this? I saw that the release date is now estimated for summer 2008, and that the Developer kit will be demoed at the Embedded Systems Conference, but I can't find any Line 6 site to check for updates. Does anyone have any contact info for Line 6 personnel that are involved with this project?
Thanks,
Sean Costello
Any new updates? I have moved much of my development to the FV-1, but I am still interested in this for more intricate algorithms that won't fit on the FV-1, like granular synthesis, frequency domain algorithms, etc. I am running a Google search on this every few days, but no new developments yet, except for there was a demo at the Embedded Systems Conference in San Francisco. I missed the conference this year (and will miss it every year that I can - I went once, and let's just say that there was not a lot of rock in that room).
Sean Costello
Updates???
Quote from: rocket on May 25, 2008, 06:19:51 PM
Updates???
I've recorded a video of a demo with Marcus Ryle, with the kit and software. I haven't look back yet and haven't redone it for online distribution, so bare with me. I'll post it here when I get it online.
Don't expect too much as an in depth video..
AHHH!!!!!! WHEN IS IT COMING OUT!!!!! I CANT WAIT ANY LONGER!!!!
Here it is, announced at the Musikmesse 2008 in Frankfurt...
A video with Markus Ryle from Line6:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6291
Looks very cool! I'm definitely getting one... I've got experience with AD Sharc DSPs, so I see it as a good opportunity to broaden my DSP knowledge by using other processors. All this while realizing my dream stompboxes for use on stage, of course! 8)
Very exciting!
I know I'm getting one and I dont even know a thing about dsp!
I'll be getting one of these (i'm a programmer by day).
I even signed up for the original beta a year or 2 ago with Mr. Huge (signed the NDA and everything). However, everything kinda fell through when he left the company.
I can't wait to give it a shot.
Any news about this that is more recent than April 2008? I Google this every few days, but it doesn't turn up much new info.
Sean Costello
I just did a Google search to see what has been posted on the Tonecore Developer Kit in the past month, and turned up the following:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=75smW9DMT1M&feature=related - this was at the Freescale Technology Forum in mid-June.
So, it seems like it is still an active project. Although being shown at a technology forum - even an internal one - is no ironglad guarantee that the Developer Kit will be released to the public.
Sean Costello
OK, it looks like it is finally official:
http://www.line6.com/tcddk/
You can even pre-order (supposed to ship in August 2008):
https://www.globalfulfillment.net/gfsnet/line6/10Expand.aspx?ProductCode=99-043-0001
I am pretty excited about this. It seems like a great way to develop 56K code. Meanwhile, I have a Motorola EVM languishing in the basement that I never touched. Put it in a stompbox, though, and I am ALL OVER IT!
Sean Costello
Also, it looks like the example code is in Symphony DSP assembler (i.e. Freescale 563xx assembly language). This will be a "little" harder than C to write in, but it is also an honest overview of what you need to do to get things running on these boxes.
Sean Costello
I got a phone call yesterday from Line 6, saying that the Tonecore Development Kit was not shipping until mid August, and that I could cancel if that was too late. Personally, I stil think that counts as August, and for those of us that have been waiting for a working Development Kit since late 2005, what is an extra 2 weeks?
I am impressed that they called to tell me that, though. I've certainly had worse customer service before.
Sean Costello
I took a programming course in Assembly language unsing one of Motorola's microprocessors, as well as a Simulink-based DSP course using a TI chip. Its probably an apples-oranges type comparison, but if the langauge for this DSP is anything similar to the assembly on the 68HC11 (albeit probably much more complex for dealing with DSP), I'd sign myself up for one. I just want to make sure I wont be in over my head out the box.
Sorry, guys, I didn't have the oppertunity earlier to get the video out but here's a first part.
Marcus Ryle introducing and showing the TCDK with doc and module.
http://www.vettaville.nl/news.php#752
Other ones will follow shortly
Thanks for the video, vettaville. I am looking forward to the next entries.
I wonder when a support forum will pop up for the developers. I know that the first example code will be a "tone control," which is probably either a biquad or state-variable based. It would be useful to have a delay line as example code, as well, or at least some tips on how to access the off-chip RAM in the dock.
Sean Costello
Anyone know if there will be a support forum for this platform?
Sean Costello
I was at Guitar Center and I asked the manager if she knew anything about the dev kit for line 6 and what not and she said they should get it i the beginning of september and it will cost 125. Anyone else hear this?
Quote from: defzeppardica on July 30, 2008, 12:09:27 AM
I was at Guitar Center and I asked the manager if she knew anything about the dev kit for line 6 and what not and she said they should get it i the beginning of september and it will cost 125. Anyone else hear this?
The Tonecore Developemt Kit wil only sell through Line 6's website. A.F.A.I.K. there won't be a dedicated forum/help.
How much does it cost?
The complete ToneCore DSP Developer's Kit will be $199.99 and the additional modules will be $34.99 each. They will be available exclusively from our on-line store.
see here
http://line6.com/tcddk/
Quote from: SeanCostello on July 25, 2008, 12:57:07 PM
Thanks for the video, vettaville. I am looking forward to the next entries.
I wonder when a support forum will pop up for the developers. I know that the first example code will be a "tone control," which is probably either a biquad or state-variable based. It would be useful to have a delay line as example code, as well, or at least some tips on how to access the off-chip RAM in the dock.
Sean Costello
Thanks Sean,
I've just uploaded part two
http://www.vettaville.nl/news.php
Dumb and embarassing question, but I believe I fried several of my modules a month or two back (the Verbzilla module I have never worked at all). Is it possible to "repair" existing modules with the TCDK?
Quote from: Mark Hammer on August 01, 2008, 09:25:18 AM
Dumb and embarassing question, but I believe I fried several of my modules a month or two back (the Verbzilla module I have never worked at all). Is it possible to "repair" existing modules with the TCDK?
Not that I know, you may want to issue an support ticket over at the Line 6 website, to see if they would extend their service and peplace it for you. You need to explain what you did to fry them of course...
I suspect it was a foolish error in terms of plugging in the wallwart before plugging the power jack in. The modules themselves were freebies as a gesture of thanks from Jeorge for beta-testing. I don't expect any sort of obligation on Line 6's part with respect to support or replacement, but I sure do miss those pedals.
And part three is up
http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=100
I have to say that these 3 videos are one of the more refreshing examples of promotional/introduction chats I've seen. Marcus is clearly comfortable with the product, and confident that it will fill a given niche to the best of its capability. There is precious little hype or bombast coming out of his mouth. Would that videos from other manufacturers were all like this.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on August 06, 2008, 01:57:47 PM
Marcus is clearly [...] confident that it will fill a given niche
Well he can, as they seem to limit themselves to Continental US ; I sent them an email warning that I'm living in Europe and that I can't preorder the kit with no answer :icon_cry:
Has anyone managed to do so with an address outside US :icon_question:
Thanks for the nice comments on the videos.
The TCDK will be available worldwide once they becomeavailable so don't worry. Yes at present it's set up for pre-order in the us only, but once thety're availabe you can order from anywhere in the world.
Regards Hans
Nice, I really would love to get one of these down in the land of oz.
Anyone received their Tonecore Developer Kit yet? I'm still waiting...
Here's a presentation on the Tonecore development kit.
http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2008/presentations/Americas/2/AC101_HandsonWorkshopCreateCompileandDebugYourOwnAudioEffectwiththeNewToneCoreDevelopersKitfromLine6.pdf?fsrch=1
My kid wants me to put a smiley face in, so:
:icon_mrgreen:
Sean
I like slide 26!
Quote from: Mark Hammer on September 02, 2008, 03:16:45 PM
I like slide 26!
As should everybody.
Is there any more word on this? On the website it used to say Shipping August 08, now it has a place to sign up for their newsletter.
-Joe
too bad, it looks too complicated for me to try to learn. I just don't have the time.
I'm sure there will be another page on here soon, one where you can download other's modules. I might be able to modify those! Boy, the copyright people are going to have a hard time once people start emulating Tubescreamers, DS-1s, etc.
Anyone here get this yet? Mine has been on order for a few months now. The web page says shipping Sept. 8, but I saw a Line 6 forum posting saying that they are still working on this.
Sean Costello
Still haven't gotten it. I saw a post on the forum from a Line6 guy that says he expects it by mid-October. But I'm not sure if that means anything since they have delayed and delayed this thing so many times before.
-Joe
Tonecore DSp development kit installer is now available for download from Line 6
http://www.vettaville.nl/news.php#819
The order page currently says "Now Shipping!"
I will post when my dock arrives. In the meantime, I am going to be digesting the contents of the SDK. Thanks for the pointer Vettaville.
From what I have read so far in the documentation, the DSP is intended to be programmed in assembly, and the microcontroller in C. It is possible to have all of the code running on the DSP, and the example that ships with the SDK shows how to transform the knob values into useful parameters via code on the DSP. This is fine for simple algorithms, but for more complicated algorithms you will want to have the knobs converted into parameters on the microcontroller, and just send the computed values down to the DSP. This will save valuable DSP cycles, since the parameters do not need to be calculated on a per-sample basis - my guess is that the knobs are not clocked at anywhere near the audio sampling rate.
Sean Costello
Sweet! Thanks vettaville.
-Joe
I just got a notice that the Tonecore kit shipped. It should arrive on the 15th.
This has been almost a 3 year wait for me, to have a working SDK. Now that it is finally coming, I realize that I'd better crack open those DSP56300 family manuals.
Sean Costello
Just got mine today. First impression is that it looks pretty nice. I popped a battery in it but nothing happened. I only have half an hour to mess with it cause I have class. Stupid school, don't you know I have better things to do. ;D
-Joe
I'm still interested in this. Can't wait to read some reports.
Andrew
Ok so I found out there is a two-level switch. I have never used a ToneCore pedal before and I wasn't pressing hard enough. It works, the included eq is alright, not really useful. I guess its intended more as a code example. One thing I did notice is that with the effect engaged, it gets really hissy, kinda like if AC mains hum was at 5000 Hz.
Oh, also, I looked through the code for the eq a bit and realized I don't know anything about programming. Time to read, that sucks.
-Joe
I got my box on the 15th, so they are definitely shipping. Haven't had the time to work with it yet.
First impression: This is a development kit? The pedal comes in a cardboard box that is identical to other pedals, and the pedal looks just like the other pedals. Where is the raw green circuit board? The loosely connected audio connectors that can become dislodged? The JTAG pins that get bent and can get stuck in your finger?
In other words, this is WORLDS sturdier than your average development kit, so that is cool.
Next week, some code tinkering.
Sean Costello
Can't wait to see how all of this unfolds. I might have to learn some programming.
Hey Sean (or anyone else for that matter),
Have you made any headway on your's. I have no idea how to use mine, I'm probably gonna have to wait for Line 6 to release some more documentation. Its a pretty cool little pedal, but its worthless until I can figure out how to do stuff with it.
-Joe
Quote from: calpolyengineer on October 30, 2008, 05:27:25 PM
I'm probably gonna have to wait for Line 6 to release some more documentation.
Based on the quote below from the Line 6 web site, I don't expect that Line 6 - specifically - would release any more documentation. They probably expect developers to read the already-published literature on the topic of DSP programming. Now if the equivalent of Aron's site crops up for this thing, that's a different story...
QuoteHow hard is it to actually write DSP code?
Again, that depends on your experience level and motivation. We recommend that you read up on the basic concepts of DSP, gain some familiarity with Freescale's Symphony DSP assembly language, and explore MusicDSP.org and the JOS Website for audio DSP code examples and more information. You might decide to take a class, or find a buddy who's done some programming. If after doing a little research you find it interesting, give it a shot!
-- T. G. --
Quote from: tommy.genes on October 30, 2008, 10:43:29 PM
Based on the quote below from the Line 6 web site, I don't expect that Line 6 - specifically - would release any more documentation. They probably expect developers to read the already-published literature on the topic of DSP programming. Now if the equivalent of Aron's site crops up for this thing, that's a different story...
On their support forums they say they are working on more documentation like examples in C, and examples of how to use all the different components. Who knows how long that will take though.
-Joe
hello,
are there any sources in Europe (for the kit itself, not software).
rocket
Quote from: rocket on November 26, 2008, 03:41:00 PM
hello,
are there any sources in Europe (for the kit itself, not software).
rocket
"Vettaville" is based in Holland... (http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=100#833) :icon_question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6idBRbO7RU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6idBRbO7RU)
http://line6.com/community/message/25582#25582