Given the standard RoHS compliant 1/4w 1% metal film resistor, is there a difference between the quality of the actual components from brand to brand in actual use? Are higher quality resistors going to sound better, last longer, or have a lower failure rate?
The reason I ask is because I just got a pack of 2000 resistors off Ebay from Hong Kong for 13 bucks. I know, it sounded to good to be true, but a few people on the forum had ordered similar packs from this supplier with no negative comments, so I thought I'd give it a go. Turns out the resistors look pretty crappy. I didn't realize there was actual such a quality difference from supplier to supplier because all of the 1/4w metal film resistors I've seen look pretty much the same. Unlike caps, which are known to have a pretty broad sweep in terms of qualiity, I just figured a 1% metal film resistor is a 1% metal film resistor, so it wouldn't matter where I ordered them from. ...But these do indeed look pretty shabby. The normal smooth expoxy coating looks like cheap flat blue enamel paint or something, and the colored lines look like they were just sloppily applied with little quality control. I even think I can see metal ridges poking through the thin blue coating in some places. Not cool.
The tolerances measure fine with a multimeter, but needless to say, I'm a little nervous to use these in a project. They're probably fine, but they just look so crappy that it makes me uncomfortable using them.
What do you guys think? Are these things safe to use? Am I just being paranoid? Anyone else have any similar experiences? Anyone know where I can get better quality variety packs of resistors on the cheap?
Thanks.
Good quality metal films are so cheap that its not really necessary to buy bargain packs off ebay IMO.
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 29, 2009, 08:20:41 PM
Good quality metal films are so cheap that its not really necessary to buy bargain packs off ebay IMO.
Then please point me to a where I can buy them cheap without having to purchase every value individually. I'm tired of paying 20 cents apiece for them at small bear. should I just order 20 of every value from mouser of something? There must be an easier way.
For example, if I ordered the same 2000 resistors I got off ebay for 13 bucks, from mouser at .06 cents apiece, it would have cost $120; From small bear, $200!!! Before shipping! That's quite a difference. Not to mention I would have to go through the catalog and select every single value individually instead of just buying one pack. I must spend a good five or ten minutes every time I order parts just scrolling through menus and making sure I have all of the values of resistors I need. It's freaking ridiculous! I want to just order them once and be done with it without spending $120! Come on, there has got to be something in between the crap off of ebay and the hassle and expense of ordering them from smallbear or mouser.
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 08:49:26 PM
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 29, 2009, 08:20:41 PM
Good quality metal films are so cheap that its not really necessary to buy bargain packs off ebay IMO.
Then please point me to a where I can buy them cheap without having to purchase every value individually. I'm tired of paying 20 cents apiece for them at small bear. should I just order 20 of every value from mouser of something? There must be an easier way.
20 of every value is the wrong way to go. I buy all my metal films from mouser in bags of 200 for $4 a bag. That can get expensive if you're stocking up on 100 values but if you buy a couple at a time youll be fine. Just search for xicon metal film resistors at mouser.com.
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 29, 2009, 08:59:57 PM
20 of every value is the wrong way to go. I buy all my metal films from mouser in bags of 200 for $4 a bag. That can get expensive if you're stocking up on 100 values but if you buy a couple at a time youll be fine. Just search for xicon metal film resistors at mouser.com.
Yes, but that's completely impractical for a hobbiest like me. Why would I ever need 200 of one value of resistor? I just need a general selection, not bulk of one value.
i bought in bulk off ebay and got great results. took a month or so, from china but I got lots and lots of usable values for 8 bucks, and 8 bucks shipping. probably 20 values at 50 each.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320331779875
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 29, 2009, 08:59:57 PM
20 of every value is the wrong way to go. I buy all my metal films from mouser in bags of 200 for $4 a bag. That can get expensive if you're stocking up on 100 values but if you buy a couple at a time youll be fine. Just search for xicon metal film resistors at mouser.com.
Yes, but that's completely impractical for a hobbiest like me. Why would I ever need 200 of one value of resistor? I just need a general selection, not bulk of one value.
To me the advantage of buying at the first price break is that you wont have to buy them again for quite a while. I am very much a hobbiest but I know that buying what I need per project can add another 50% of the cost in covering shipping. As you build up your stock of parts you have to order less and less for new builds until you get to the point where building a pedal involves no part sourcing.
Well, I got scammed! Scratched the epoxy coat off and they are CARBON FILM resitors underneath! M*ther F*cker! They are color banded as %1 tolerance. These are actual factory fakes! Total bullshit!
Stay away from "sureelectronics" on ebay!
You should scratch off the expoxy coating on one of your resistors aziltz just to make sure. I didn't even think anyone would go through the trouble of forgering metal film resistors, but apparently fakes do exist. Beware of ordering cheap components on ebay!
Hi I've purchased resistor sets from EBay also with no problem yet.
If it was me I would use those resistors you got.
We are building effect pedals not hospital life support systems or space shuttles. :icon_smile:
Glen
Just read your post above mine. Sorry to hear you didn't get what you ordered, that sucks, anyway I'd still use them.
Glen
Edit:
Just remembered you can dispute the purchase with Ebay and get your money back.
Check out the resistor kits from Smallbear, for about $60 you can get 100 of every value a hobbyist will ever need. The leads are pretty flimsy, so they're not the best for breadboarding but they'll certainly do!
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Resistors+-+1/4+Watt,+5%25+Carbon+Film:Carbon+Film+Resistor+Kits (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Resistors+-+1/4+Watt,+5%25+Carbon+Film:Carbon+Film+Resistor+Kits)
Take a look at the picture in the link, what does yours look like. Which one?
http://www.sure-electronics.net/DC,IC%20chips/DC-RS013_2_b.jpg
Glen
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 10:02:54 PM
Well, I got scammed! Scratched the epoxy coat off and they are CARBON FILM resitors underneath! M*ther F*cker! They are color banded as %1 tolerance. These are actual factory fakes! Total bullsh*t!
Stay away from "sureelectronics" on ebay!
You should scratch off the expoxy coating on one of your resistors aziltz just to make sure. I didn't even think anyone would go through the trouble of forgering metal film resistors, but apparently fakes do exist. Beware of ordering cheap components on ebay!
thanks for the heads up. i check and mine are the real deal. sorry about the bad buy. Hope you can get your money back.
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 29, 2009, 08:59:57 PM
20 of every value is the wrong way to go. I buy all my metal films from mouser in bags of 200 for $4 a bag. That can get expensive if you're stocking up on 100 values but if you buy a couple at a time youll be fine. Just search for xicon metal film resistors at mouser.com.
Yes, but that's completely impractical for a hobbiest like me. Why would I ever need 200 of one value of resistor? I just need a general selection, not bulk of one value.
I used to kinda think like that.
If you stick with the hobby though you wont think its too impractical imo. Ok I wouldn't go buying 200 5K6 resistors. I would buy your standard values, 470R, 1K, 4K7, 10K, 33k, 47K, 100K, 470K, 1M. Just today I was populating a PCB that need 12 10K resistor on it. Was using metal film for this project. Noticed I was getting low, damn just got 200 or so last year. Anyways over time you'll be glad you have those standard vales. Will last you some tome and you wont have to make little orders for cheap resistors.
its a shame we have to deal with fake parts...
Quote from: biggy boy on April 29, 2009, 10:46:54 PM
Take a look at the picture in the link, what does yours look like. Which one?
http://www.sure-electronics.net/DC,IC%20chips/DC-RS013_2_b.jpg
Glen
That's the same picture I used for comparison. My resistors look exactly like the carbon film one on the left when I scratch away the epoxy. Their tolerances are worse than 1% as well. Just to be sure I compared the temperature stabiblty of a 1M ohm ebay resistor to a metal film from smallbear. When I held a soldering iron up to the surface while taking a measurement with a multimeter, the small bear resistor maintained a fairly stable reading, as should be expected from a metal film resistor. The ebay resistor on the other hand dropped about 6% in value when exposed to heat. This is very similar to the stability of a carbon film resistor from radioshack which I compared. It dropped around 4%.
These are obviously FAKE. I'm pretty shocked. Who in the hell makes forgeries of something as cheap as metal film resistors?!!! I'm not even sure it's necessarily the ebay seller's fault as they were color coded as 1% tolerance resistors from the factory, which implies that they would be metal film. They were obviously manufactured this way, which just baffles me. Was it a mistake, a scam, or what??? This whole thing is pretty shady though, so I would advise people to stay away from this ebay seller "sureelectronics" altogether. Beware, there are fake components floating around out there! This makes me more inclined to believe the seemingly ridiculous stories of people getting forged NOS 4558 chips.
Just curious, what's the difference between all of these different resistors available on mouser?
For instance, when I look up 1/4w 1Kohm 1% metal film Vishay/Dale resitors i get about 12 different part numbers. Their prices range dramatically from a few cents apiece to over a dollar, while from a cursory glance at the specs they appear identical. I know I just want the cheap xicons for stompboxes, but I'm curious why there is such a wide difference in price between components of the same brand that appear to have nearly identical specifications. What's the deal?
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 11:51:13 PM
Just curious, what's the difference between all of these different resistors available on mouser?
For instance, when I look up 1/4w 1Kohm 1% metal film Vishay/Dale resitors i get about 12 different part numbers. Their prices range dramatically from a few cents apiece to over a dollar, while from a cursory glance at the specs they appear identical. I know I just want the cheap xicons for stompboxes, but I'm curious why there is such a wide difference in price between components of the same brand that appear to have nearly identical specifications. What's the deal?
Some brands are more expensive than others or are mil-spec parts and stuff like that. Dale RN55s are awesome resistors but theyre expensive compared to xicons.
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 30, 2009, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 11:51:13 PM
Just curious, what's the difference between all of these different resistors available on mouser?
For instance, when I look up 1/4w 1Kohm 1% metal film Vishay/Dale resitors i get about 12 different part numbers. Their prices range dramatically from a few cents apiece to over a dollar, while from a cursory glance at the specs they appear identical. I know I just want the cheap xicons for stompboxes, but I'm curious why there is such a wide difference in price between components of the same brand that appear to have nearly identical specifications. What's the deal?
Some brands are more expensive than others or are mil-spec parts and stuff like that. Dale RN55s are awesome resistors but theyre expensive compared to xicons.
i was wondering, why are the rn55s so expensive... other than the fact that they look awesome!
Quote from: tehfunk on April 30, 2009, 02:43:52 AM
Quote from: Nitefly182 on April 30, 2009, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 11:51:13 PM
Just curious, what's the difference between all of these different resistors available on mouser?
For instance, when I look up 1/4w 1Kohm 1% metal film Vishay/Dale resitors i get about 12 different part numbers. Their prices range dramatically from a few cents apiece to over a dollar, while from a cursory glance at the specs they appear identical. I know I just want the cheap xicons for stompboxes, but I'm curious why there is such a wide difference in price between components of the same brand that appear to have nearly identical specifications. What's the deal?
Some brands are more expensive than others or are mil-spec parts and stuff like that. Dale RN55s are awesome resistors but theyre expensive compared to xicons.
i was wondering, why are the rn55s so expensive... other than the fact that they look awesome!
They are precision resistors and the materials and production quantities are probably lower. I dont think theyre as massive a company as xicon for example. It may also be a percieved quality deal as well. More expensive for the sake of it. Many of their products are also super high tolerance. The CMF55 is their standard resistor and is meant to be close to milspec at a consumer price point. The actual RN55 is milspec and they are usually higher tolerance like .1 or .01%.
Quote from: aziltz on April 29, 2009, 11:29:41 PM
its a shame we have to deal with fake parts...
LOL, don't try buying BBDs from China on the bay in that case.
I've posted about this before, because it really irritates me too!
I can't go along with the idea 'supporting smallbear' when their metal-filmresistors are so much more expensive. I order plenty of stuff from them, of course, but not resistors. There may be reasons why, but I just won't order those. Ordering in 100s clogs my bench, and I like the (idea) of having every value I can concieve of using available...which adds up to a lot of (unused) resistors. RG recommends it and I understand his perspective, but while I do plan on doing electronics for a long time to come, 'clutter' has a cost--I'm on a monetary budget, and a space budget, so I need something that works with both. :)
Digikey had some for cheap (.03 cents per) if you ordered ten or more. That's long gone. The cheapest onces I could find that I just ordered from mouser turned out to be super small carbon films, with really off colors, so I have to meter most of them. My fault for not inspecting the datasheet--I'm abandoning those!
In the end, I really dislike futurlec, but for resistors, they're great. That's predominantly where I got mine from the start, but have since wanted more values and or 10 or so more here and there. They work out to 1 cent a piece for carbon film and 2 cents each for metal film, and you only need to get 10 for that price. Effects connection is a good compromise on metal films at 25 for a dollar, but with limited values (sigh). Even PPP at .08 each is cheaper, in most cases, than the majority of stuff available through the big guys and smallbear, sadly. I've got enough resistors to get me through for a while, so I can deal with their 2-3 week shipping wait times and frustrations for resistors and stay pro-active about what values I'll need months in advance....I may not bother to order anything else from futurlec, but for resistors, I guess I'm resigning to that compromise rather than paying around a dollars for five resistors or having thousands and tens of thousands of resistors taking up more space somewhere in my tiny apartment when a dozen of most values is plenty, for a while.
Just got to shop around. I buy some things from small bear. Sometimes he is cheaper sometimes he isnt. But yea .20c for a resistor is a bit much. I tend to avoid fleabay on many things. I hear about to many things like fake transistors now its resistors.
Quote from: liquids on April 30, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
I've posted about this before, because it really irritates me too!
I can't go along with the idea 'supporting smallbear' when their metal-filmresistors are so much more expensive. I order plenty of stuff from them, of course, but not resistors. There may be reasons why, but I just won't order those. Ordering in 100s clogs my bench, and I like the (idea) of having every value I can concieve of using available...which adds up to a lot of (unused) resistors. RG recommends it and I understand his perspective, but while I do plan on doing electronics for a long time to come, 'clutter' has a cost--I'm on a monetary budget, and a space budget, so I need something that works with both. :)
Digikey had some for cheap (.03 cents per) if you ordered ten or more. That's long gone. The cheapest onces I could find that I just ordered from mouser turned out to be super small carbon films, with really off colors, so I have to meter most of them. My fault for not inspecting the datasheet--I'm abandoning those!
In the end, I really dislike futurlec, but for resistors, they're great. That's predominantly where I got mine from the start, but have since wanted more values and or 10 or so more here and there. They work out to 1 cent a piece for carbon film and 2 cents each for metal film, and you only need to get 10 for that price. Effects connection is a good compromise on metal films at 25 for a dollar, but with limited values (sigh). Even PPP at .08 each is cheaper, in most cases, than the majority of stuff available through the big guys and smallbear, sadly. I've got enough resistors to get me through for a while, so I can deal with their 2-3 week shipping wait times and frustrations for resistors and stay pro-active about what values I'll need months in advance....I may not bother to order anything else from futurlec, but for resistors, I guess I'm resigning to that compromise rather than paying around a dollars for five resistors or having thousands and tens of thousands of resistors taking up more space somewhere in my tiny apartment when a dozen of most values is plenty, for a while.
Thanks liquids. That's pretty much the exact same issue I'm having. I live in an apartment with a roomate, so I don't have a workbench I can store this stuff at. When I finish working on a project everything goes into boxes in my closet. That, combined with the fact that I'm a broke musician, simply means I cannot afford to buy resistors 200 at a time. I've heard so much bad stuff about Futurlec on here that I kind of forgot they even existed. I'll have to check them out again. 20 cents for 10 resistors is a pretty nice deal! Thanks for the tip!
I LOVE smallbear for most stuff. The time I save not having to sort through mouser's enormous catalog, and the comfort I get knowing that what I order is going to be the appropriate specs and form factor for stompboxes is worth the extra cost. Plus, it's great to support a small business and member of the community. Resistors are about the only thing I've realized it's not worth buying there. Most of their prices are very reasonable, but their metal film resistors are just ridiculously priced!
i just thought i'd give my thoughts about futurlec, even though i had to wait a long time for my third order from them, i still like them, and that was abnormal. shipping is four dollars for basically anything you're going to order (i assume you're not going to spend more than $99 for an order of the following kinds of parts). they're great for more than just resistors--capacitors (if you're not super mojo oriented), ICs, transistors, leds, and obscure things. I leave my potentiometers, switches, enclosures, and heavy stuff to smallbear and effects connection, with the occasional mouser order.
Quote from: tehfunk on April 30, 2009, 06:45:24 PM
they're great for more than just resistors--capacitors (if you're not super mojo oriented), ICs, transistors, leds, and obscure things. I leave my potentiometers, switches, enclosures, and heavy stuff to smallbear and effects connection, with the occasional mouser order.
Yeah, in terms of quality, I agree. Their mylar caps, however, are oversized.
Maybe you should just find a different hobby then Liquids.
Seems like this one is too stressful for you.
In Sureelectronics defense, I bought one of their resistor assortments on ebay
and they were great. The leads are a little thin but other than that they
measure in the range they should and they have worked greet for the couple years
I have been using them.
John
Quote from: John Lyons on May 01, 2009, 11:49:01 AM
Maybe you should just find a different hobby then Liquids.
Seems like this one is too stressful for you.
John
Thanks John!
o No!
Internet sarcasm ???
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300311866701&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr2_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=300307560505&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D2
How about 2000 1% metal films for $19 shipped? (50 of each value). I just bought a bunch like this from this guy, and they got here in a week, and are the real thing, I randomly spot tested several of them with the DMM, heated them up with the gun & they are real.
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 10:02:54 PM
Well, I got scammed! Scratched the epoxy coat off and they are CARBON FILM resitors underneath! M*ther F*cker! They are color banded as %1 tolerance. These are actual factory fakes! Total bullsh*t!
Stay away from "sureelectronics" on ebay!
You should scratch off the expoxy coating on one of your resistors aziltz just to make sure. I didn't even think anyone would go through the trouble of forgering metal film resistors, but apparently fakes do exist. Beware of ordering cheap components on ebay!
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Fake resistors now!!! Holy shoot. Now I have seen everything.
I can't believe the mongrels would even bother.
BTW sorry for you if you got scammed. I hope you have toasted their asses with a Paypal return and feedback.
Quote from: liquids on May 01, 2009, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: John Lyons on May 01, 2009, 11:49:01 AM
Maybe you should just find a different hobby then Liquids.
Seems like this one is too stressful for you.
John
Thanks John!
I confused a couple posts, no harm meant.
No need to get upset.
john
Quote from: Toney on May 01, 2009, 04:51:49 PM
Quote from: Projectile on April 29, 2009, 10:02:54 PM
Well, I got scammed! Scratched the epoxy coat off and they are CARBON FILM resitors underneath! M*ther F*cker! They are color banded as %1 tolerance. These are actual factory fakes! Total bullsh*t!
Stay away from "sureelectronics" on ebay!
You should scratch off the expoxy coating on one of your resistors aziltz just to make sure. I didn't even think anyone would go through the trouble of forgering metal film resistors, but apparently fakes do exist. Beware of ordering cheap components on ebay!
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Fake resistors now!!! Holy shoot. Now I have seen everything.
I can't believe the mongrels would even bother.
BTW sorry for you if you got scammed. I hope you have toasted their asses with a Paypal return and feedback.
I emailed them about the "mistake" to see if they intend to do anything about it. If I haven't heard back in a few days I will report them, but I doubt I will get my money back. I had a friend that went through a dispute and as long as you received the item and it's not broken it seems it's hard to get your money back over something simply being falsely advertised.
Quote from: John Lyons on May 01, 2009, 11:49:01 AM
Maybe you should just find a different hobby then Liquids.
Seems like this one is too stressful for you.
In Sureelectronics defense, I bought one of their resistor assortments on ebay
and they were great. The leads are a little thin but other than that they
measure in the range they should and they have worked greet for the couple years
I have been using them.
John
Yes, but are they actually metal film?
Sure, I could probably use them in most projects fine. Nothing wrong with carbon film, but I don't like being scammed into buying something that isn't what it claims. That's not much of a defense. I fail to see how something could be "great" when it has deliberately been faked to look like a more valuable product than it actually is. I really don't understand why someone would defend a scam artist.
duplicate.
Quote from: Projectile
/quote]
it's hard to get your money back over something simply being falsely advertised.
No no no.
That is a perfect reason for money back.
Mate, you are protected by common law, let alone all the retail specific stuff.
Get 'em!
[/quote]
Yes, but are they actually metal film?
Sure, I could probably use them in most projects fine. Nothing wrong with carbon film, but I don't like being scammed into buying something that isn't what it claims. That's not much of a defense. I fail to see how something could be "great" when it has deliberately been faked to look like a more valuable product than it actually is. I really don't understand why someone would defend a scam artist.
[/quote]
The ones I got from them ARE metal film. Just checked. I scraped of the blue coating (not easy to do)and there is metal underneith.
The blue coating is shiny and looks like all the other metal films I have (from other sources).
So I stick to defending them. I only know what I see in front of me.
john
Quote from: John Lyons on May 01, 2009, 05:35:53 PM
I only know what I see in front of me.
That is your problem. ::)
Update:
Well, it took a while, but sureelectronics responded to my dispute. They admitted that the resistors I received were carbon film, and they offered to refund part of my money. They also said that they changed all of the mislabeled products in their store so that future customers would not get the wrong product. I checked their ebay page and indeed the metal film pack I ordered no longer exists and it appears that they are now selling them as 5% carbon film. They do still sell packs of metal film resistors, but they are considerably more expensive, which is what I would expect.
In the end it seems that sureelectronics is a least making an attempt to be honorable, so I have to give them some credit for that. What still concerns me is that whoever these suppliers are that they choose to do business with are sketchy as hell. These resistors are obviously painted and color branded as forgeries, so while sureelectronics is at least being honest about what they are selling now, these resistors still look like 1% metal film, which isn't cool in my book. Fake parts are fake parts.
Anyways, I accepted their offer and consider the issue resolved, but let this be a warning to anyone buying cheap components on ebay. There are definitely fake components out there! Be careful! If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. This is the last time I'll be buying cheap parts from Hong Kong or China on ebay for a while.
you can however find valuepacks at some stores. For example from Banzai, you get 100 metal film 1% high quality resistors for 0,70 Euro... I buy these, but I live in Norway so the shipping isn't a problem or timeconsuming...