I'm considering working on a project where I install a fuzz, boost, and tremelo directly into a guitar. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and/or has posted a thread detailing their results?
I'm currently pondering the following ideas:
- removing the tone pots on the guitar and re-using those two holes for the depth and rate knob of the tremelo. One of these pots can be a push-pull to turn the effect on or off.
- add a push-pull pot for the boost (to control gain, and push-pull will turn it on or off)
- add a dpdt toggle for the fuzz. The fuzz would be hard set for maximum fuzz and unity gain, and the volume knob on the guitar can be used to clean it up.
- Route the wood to allow for a 9V battery compartment in the rear.
I don't currently have a guitar to use for this project (I don't want to hack up my Am Std Strat), so I'm still looking for a proper guitar for this project.
Curious if anyone has done this or has any thoughts or suggestions?
If you took a strat style guitar, but put a hardtail bridge on it and removed all the springs and crap, you'd have a lot of room to work with in there.
Not quite the same but I built a Variax rehouse.
There's a lot of space behind the bridge of most guitars to fit a PCB.
I once owned a cheap Kay guitar with built in effects (see http://www.vintaxe.com/boards/viewtopic.php?=&p=578 (http://www.vintaxe.com/boards/viewtopic.php?=&p=578) - though this is not my actual guitar). It actually played reasonably well and didn't sound too bad experimentally. The main downside is the fixed order of the effects which doesn't allow rearranging them for different tonal variations and the fact that you can't swap guitars and keep the same effects. I really like the idea of getting rid of cables and having a tidy arrangement built into a guitar.
A consideration is that the mods would probably devalue any decent guitar. Body routing could be minimised by using SMDs to get the module size right down so that it fitted within the existing control cavity. Depending on the guitar, standard components may even fit if the PCB is carefully designed and the smallest components used.
I wouldn't fit the 9v battery into the guitar - use phantom power instead which will allow you to use a battery or mains adapter. Saves a lot of addition work and reduces risk of slipping with the router.
Personally, I don't see much point unless there is some performance interface built into the guitar for controlling the effects, i.e. people who mount Kaoss pads or fuzz probe antennae in the body. If you're going to do this, I'd suggest working something like into the guitar so you can control the effect while you play. Something like this:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=68566.0
You will be going through batteries very fast powering 3 circuits from one battery. I try as much as possible to avoid using batteries, since they get thrown out when they are about 1/5 or 1/3 depleted, which is a huge waste of energy and creates way too much extra trash.
It's possible to power the circuit through your guitar cord if you use a stereo cable.
I have two guitars with effects.
One of them is a treble boost/ bass boost.
the other is a distortion that goes from clean boost to all out metal.
they are both commercial made boards with surface mount components.
The one with the distortion is handy.
I take that guitar with me to my lessons, it handy I don't have to take a pedal.
I have thought about making my own board for distortion for on-board, but I have no need for more guitars with it built in.
Glen
Although I'll likely stick with battery (so that I can use any old cable), I am going to try my best to keep it really low power requirements. If it gets beyond 15 mA current draw, I will probably forgo one of the effects and just put in two.
I do like the idea of controlling tremelo rate and depth on the guitar, but admit there is otherwise little point to having them in the guitar, other than it being a cool project. So I will probably only be doing this on a very cheap guitar! :)
MikeH, good suggestion on the strat style. That is true that it would give quite a bit of room to work with.
I took an old basket-case Teisco hollowbody and added the EA tremolo circuit, with the boost switch mod. There was a ton of room and the guitar had a plastic switchplate for the electronics. You could do the same with just about any hollowbody, and maybe even cut a small hole in the back and get a small cover plate.
I mounted a small battery holder into the side so I don't have to take it apart to change the battery.
There's also a lot of extra room in LP type guitars, and you could route out more without anyone knowing.
(http://zile.com/NNG/teisco.jpg)
Oh no not this topic again. Put the hands up and step away from the keyboard...Friends don't let friends build effects into a guitar. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: 80k on May 08, 2009, 12:14:29 PM
I'm considering working on a project where I install a fuzz, boost, and tremelo directly into a guitar. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and/or has posted a thread detailing their results?
Curious if anyone has done this or has any thoughts or suggestions?
Right here XD
The coolest guitar ever put on the market! 1960's Vox Starstream. It has
tremolo, fuzz, treble/bass boost, a built in hand controlled wah pedal, and a e-tuner. :icon_eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWC1uzg-Yr0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWC1uzg-Yr0)
I am working on a replica of this guitar for my brother, however it will probably only have the tremolo and fuzz.
I have also put a fuzz inside my bass guitar. It had two volume pots, one for each pickup. But, each pickup sounded EXACTLY the same. So all they did was make it annoying to control the master volume, as you had to adjust both pots. So i switched one out with the fuzz. I'm just waiting for a 3PDT toggle to finish the project up.
I think it's nice to have effects in your guitar! But, when you make it, you have to be careful of what you put in and how you do it. You want to consider:
1. What effect(s) do I use all the time and I want to control in real time?
2. How do I lay out the controls in an easy and accessible way?
3. How to I minimize the current draw of my circuit so I don't have to worry about batteries?
If your plan does not answer these three things effectively, then there's not much point putting it in (unless it's just plain awesome)
JKowalski,
now that's what i'm talking about. :)
That is one sweet guitar. I've always loved those Vox's (Phantom/Teardrop/Mark VI). I knew they put effects into some of those, but i never knew which ones nor seen them in action. That youtube video is great.
Yea, I definitely want to minimize current draw. I am also considering just fuzz and tremelo to simplify things and minimize power consumption.
So you are working on a Vox replica? Did make the body yourself or did you find a source for them? I'd love to have one of those coffin-esque-shaped Phantoms myself.
effects in guitars hehe that was popular in the 60s and 70s :D :D
I recently built and installed this in a tele deluxe.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/album174/ALEMBIC+STRATOBLASTER+2N3819.gif.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/album174/ALEMBIC+STRATOBLASTER+2N3819.gif.html)
Works very well.
This method of attaching the pot directly to the veroboard traces is good for mounting directly in a guitar. It cuts down on wiring and the whole unit can be fitted in an already existant hole, replacing a tone pot for example.
I`m currently working on a similar layout for the Os Mutantes fuzz. Hopefully they`ll both run off the same battery.
I had a fuzz in my guitar for a while (Epi Les Paul). There was plenty of room in the Epi for the battery and the board so there wasn't any need for invasive work.. Since it was experimental, my install job reflected that and it eventually started having problems so I removed it.
I think if I did it again, I'd make a base PCB with a socket on it and build FX boards to plug into the socket. I could easily change FX boards and sequence at will. I would keep a blank socket board to set everything to passive if I wanted to keep stuff clean.
I've been wanting to install effects on my guitar, but I'm worried about shielding issues.
Quote from: Kitarist on May 08, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
effects in guitars hehe that was popular in the 60s and 70s :D :D
And they are about to make a comeback! ;)
Quote from: 80k on May 08, 2009, 05:56:50 PM
So you are working on a Vox replica? Did make the body yourself or did you find a source for them? I'd love to have one of those coffin-esque-shaped Phantoms myself.
I made the body myself. It's a semi-semi hollow (solid but with large chambers and with an F-hole), and it's nearly done. I am working on the neck at the moment, I should finish soon. I'll post a pic of the guitar so far, if you want to see it.
Mine is the teardrop shape, like in the video.
Quote from: JKowalski on May 08, 2009, 08:12:50 PM
Quote from: 80k on May 08, 2009, 05:56:50 PM
So you are working on a Vox replica? Did make the body yourself or did you find a source for them? I'd love to have one of those coffin-esque-shaped Phantoms myself.
I made the body myself. It's a semi-semi hollow (solid but with large chambers and with an F-hole), and it's nearly done. I am working on the neck at the moment, I should finish soon. I'll post a pic of the guitar so far, if you want to see it.
Mine is the teardrop shape, like in the video.
cool, yea i'd love to see a photo if you have one!
Thanks for the YouTube video! The fuzz sounds like a Vox Tonebender. Is that the circuit in the guitar?
What would they have used for a tremolo circuit? I didn't know Vox even built a tremolo circuit (for a guitar or pedal) except for the one in the organs and the solid state amps. Would they have used that tremolo circuit in the guitar? Because it would obviously be dumb to put tubes inside a guitar!
Toddy
Yupp.
But don't have any more EFX in Guitars.
Compressor is often the 1 or first thing I turn on...for space and battery consumption reasons it's in a floorbox.
I had an inboard Stratoblaster once...pretty nice..I used a DPDT/100k linear pot to do the honors, and re-worked the on/off pull volume controls so as to have something closer to unity volume between on and true bypassed.
I made a travel guitar with a built in DIY SansAmp GT2 :
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/andronico66/CustomTravelGuitar/Cab092.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/andronico66/CustomTravelGuitar/TravelGuitar15.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii186/andronico66/CustomTravelGuitar/TravelGuitar07.jpg)
Now that really is a nice piece of work.... Just superb. That ought to be in production.
That's a great looking guitar!! Hope it sounds and plays as nice as it looks! I agree...go into production with it!!
To answer my own question for those interested. Vox used its Repeat Percussion tremolo effect in the Starsteam. Duh for me!! I should have known!! And yes, I was right on the Tonebender circuit for the fuzz.
Toddy
QuoteI made a travel guitar with a built in DIY SansAmp GT2
That's really trick!
I put a Maestro Boomerang circuit into one of my guitars. I use it as an on-board "Q-filter". I don't use it as much as I anticipated I might, but at least I accomplished what I set out to do...
Quote from: Toddy on May 09, 2009, 06:44:19 AM
Thanks for the YouTube video! The fuzz sounds like a Vox Tonebender. Is that the circuit in the guitar?
I've been tyring to figure this out, with no luck. It's possible, and probable that is is the tonebender, though. We'd have to ask a favor of someone who owns the guitar.
andronico, that is a really cool guitar you are working. Great work, and let us know if you make any videos of it in action!
Thank you for your positive comments guys.
No, I´m sorry, I haven´t any video... :'(
But if you are interested here is the complete thread at Project Guitar Forum :
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=34299&st=0&gopid=365486&#entry365486
You can phantom power a guitar and still use standard cables - isolate the DC with a .1uf capacitor at each end.
Quote from: Mick Bailey on May 11, 2009, 01:11:10 PM
You can phantom power a guitar and still use standard cables - isolate the DC with a .1uf capacitor at each end.
You can?! I didn't know you could do that...
http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/photos/vespatron/9073991901 (http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/photos/vespatron/9073991901)
bought this in 98 for 60 pounds. all the fx bar the fuzz work properly.
Odd that his should come up. I posted some stuff in the Members Only forum.
I recently got all hot and bothered again about the onboard FX that Vox put in some of their stuff in the mid 60s. If I ever find the actual schemos for those or get an afternoon alone with one of the guitars, I'll make repro PCB layouts.
In the meantime, the logical guess is that they put into the guitars much the same circuits as their plug-in-the-guitar stuff. So I've laid out a 1"x2" board containing:
- the distortion booster
- the repeat percussion
- not the wah, for reasons below
- not the E-tuner; we can do much better today
- a compressor, which makes great sense onboard
- an attack delay for bowed effects
- a treble-bass booster
- a midrange booster with selectable boost frequency at 440/660/880, which is about what the Thomas Vox amps did
- a wah-ish sweepable filter done with active filters, not the inductor
I set myself the goal of making each one be a complete effect, and switchable on the board without the complex wiring for a slide-switch bypass like the old Vox guitars. So the circuits I mention are on ONE side of the PCB. The other side has a buffer in, a buffer out, and electronic signal switching, as well as a latch to make it switch in and out with an external momentary switch. And the ability to drive an LED, although that would cause a lot of battery drain.
OK, so I'm a little nutso. I knew that. :icon_biggrin:
The boards are all standalone effects but each of them is 1" by 2", and have consistent mounting holes and wires pads for wiring in and out.
Still haven't got boards made though.
What else ought to be available in this kind of thing?
Quote from: Masuto on June 18, 2013, 07:53:38 AM
http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/photos/vespatron/9073991901 (http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/photos/vespatron/9073991901)
bought this in 98 for 60 pounds. all the fx bar the fuzz work properly.
What make & model is that guitar? Never seen one of those before.
it's a Kay guitar. i found out it has phase invertion too.. the effects are basically revolving around (sic) some sort of this kind of repeat percussion and phase inverting combined. at least thats what i read online... i have used it as my main axe for about 3 years. tuning issues (could/should change mechanics) had me trodding to other axes
right now it's gutted cos i wanted to find out about the fuzz issue.. i got the actual pcb drawing from one of the guys on the internet but ultimately i wont rebuild it. if you need the pcb image file just pm me.
Wow, pretty intense stuff, ha ha!
I'm currently putting together a mid boost/cut that I'll try out with an old (MIM) Strat I have, with a bridge HB.
I think it would improve its playability, in that for country-ish stuff, chicken pickin' and double-stops, you may want some more mids but going back to rock a mild scoop might be nice. Similar to the Clapton midboost that was popular a while back, but home brewed...
Hey, thanks, Marc! :o) Nice of you to notice!
I second what RG said about putting a compressor in a guitar as making the most sense of installing any FX inside the guitar.
Then the volume control can go on the output of the compressor, and the volume control on the guitar doesn't mess up the compressor and ruin the s/n ratio if you use it.
I played one of those VOX guitars in a music store back in the late 60's. I was not impressed. And the wah handle actuator was way inferior to a pedal to control a wah wah effect. IMHO.
I would reconsider the importance of being able to use "any old guitar cord". Having a requirement for a special cord simply means you keep a spare special cord in your guitar's case. My 2 cents worth.
And yeah, I've been putting compressors, tone circuits and overdrives in guitars for over 30 years. I like it. Not so onboard batteries.
mr coffee
I think onboard effects have their place, but it really comes down to personal style. The pedal I use the most is my Boost. An LPB-1. (from aGGG kit) Currently trying to learn SMD soldering so I can install an SMD version of the same. (with an input cap mod)
I would only install something at would be really handy to have inside the guitar. I tend to wander around during solos at gigs and often can't get back to where the boost pedal is in time to kill it. Makes for some awkward moments, so an onboard boost would be great.
I can't see that Vox hand-operated wah being practical at all. Looks really awkward.
Other things, like a tremolo, I prefer to just hit a footswitch. Phasers and flangers are better with a foot-operated sweep. (IMO)
Uglyface, Gristleizer, etc, again, so seldom used, better off in a pedal.
I can see something like GFS's onboard Delay being handy for some. I might just pick up one of those some day. (but an EBow comes first, though)
Anyways, different strokes for different folks. That's what's great about this forum!
Gibson Firebird X - $4,000. So many gadgets it makes my head hurt. MC
My own approach to this, documented MANY times over on this forum, is that those things that can be built into the instrument should only be those things that can't be done better off the instrument.
So what does "better" mean? It means that one can afford to have more controls than the limited space on a guitar can provide (drilling a box is a whole lot easier than routing a guitar), or better spaced controls and switches, that the order of FX can be played around with, that other supply voltages can be played with, that modifications can be easily accomplished, that power can be supplied in easier fashion, that your hands are free to pick the strings and turning things on and off is a matter for your feet, and a lot of similar things.
A buffer with a bit of gain works great as a build-in, or any sort of pickup mixing or stereo distribution, or the various digital installations (MIDI guitars, Variax, et al), but beyond that my own sentiment is that just about anything will work better if built outside the guitar.
Yes, they aren't as "cool" that way, but I'd rather forfeit a bit of coolness to have three controls, a toggle or two, and a dependable power source for my overdrive, than one knob in an awkward location, and worry about whether the battery will hold up.
Years ago I replaced the tonecitcuit in my Les Paul custom with Craig Anderton's Clarifier , an active citcuit . I chose to build it with a symetric powersupply : two 9 volt batteries. I added a switch to bypass it completely but then I don't use any tonecaps at all.
What I like most about it is that it gives extra gain and is low impedance out. It does a great job straight into the fx loop of my small amp. It's dead quiet then , for me a big advantage when recording and still having the benefit of a poweramp and speaker choice and colouring.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll291/snofal/schemonly_zpsbad04cd9.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Alf
Yep - there are some real advantages to having a buffer inside the guitar in all but a few cases.
That's why I designed this buffer:http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/Onboard_Preamp.pdf (http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/Onboard_Preamp.pdf)
It has high input impedance, low output impedance, and quite small current drain as well as working from two lithium coin cells for a long, long time.
Thanks RG for the suggestion or pointing it out.
I haven't seen this one yet and it might be better than what I use right now because of the much smaller battery coin cells. With two 9Volt blocks it takes up most of the available space in the pot cavity in the guitar.
I wil, try it soon. Is there a pcb available ?
What do you mean by "magic loading if applicable " ?
Quote from: alfafalfa on November 03, 2013, 04:01:48 AM
I wil, try it soon. Is there a pcb available ?
No, no PCB. It does lend itself to "cordwood" style construction on pad-per-hole perfboard, though.
QuoteWhat do you mean by "magic loading if applicable " ?
As the article says:
QuoteMagic Loading
Some pickups require a certain loading to get a particularly good tone. Most guitarists have a favorite setting of tone and volume controls for the guitar's tone. This buffer is essentially non-
loading to a pickup, so it will not provide the "magic loading". It lets you do this in a fixed fashion by including Rs and Cs in the indicated box to get your pickups to be properly loaded
to your ears. Once you have your pickups loaded the way you like them, the buffer keeps that tonal balance from changing due to loading.
QuoteAs the article says:
Sorry , hadn't had time to read the article yet . That explains it all.
Alf
the added weight plus any necessary control knobs/switches would make for a pretty klunky/cluttered guitar...a les paul might end up weighing close to 20 pounds.
The rhythm circuit section of a Fender Jazzmaster or Jaguar is a perfect place to add a fuzz, boost or distortion. Just a simple, small circuit.
The 2 rollers & switch lend themselves perfectly to something like a Fuzz Face or ToneBender.
On the subject of Vox guitars, I'm the proud owner of this...
(http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s376/porkyprimecut/ultrasonicbody.jpg)
The built in circuits are incredible, particularly the combination of Treble Boost & Distortion (a silicon ToneBender).
The repeater is a pretty unique lo-fi tremolo-type of affair.
The Wah is odd. It sounds great but, as people have gathered, it's quite clumsy to use. A foot pedal makes much more sense.
I'm actually in the process of building a 3-in-1 pedal based around the Vox circuit that a friend reverse engineered (Boost, Distortion & Repeater).
It could certainly be cheaper to put the effects in the guitar. No enclosure, no etching or painting, no additional jacks. You may need shielding, but that can be done unartistically to the internals of the guitar. You could use phantom power or carrier current or industrial 4-20 mA current loop riding on the DC input so the power could be outboard and supplied from a power supply so there would be no need for batteries. Anybody here doing a fibre-optic guitar cord? You would need power, but you would never get interference. Or put an RF link in the guitar and never have a cable or jack again - except maybe for a battery charger.
I still support the split Tillman preamp as a start - the gate resistor, source resistor and JFET of a Tillman in the guitar and the drain resistor, coupling capacitor and ground refernce resistor in an outboard box at the end of the cable that also has the battery or power supply. Or you could put the whole thing in the cable with the same split at input and output.
I have an electric toothbrush that is charged through a split transformer that has the primary and its magnetics in the base and the secondary and its magnetics in the toothbrush itself. Someone should adapt that idea to a guitar so you can have a cordless recharge function for the internal battery. Not a bad idea for individual stompboxes, either.
I don't see many people trying revolutionary things here - maybe we should shake up the usual setup of passive guitar, daisy-chained stompboxes and the amp. It may lead to one of those "why did we put up with this for so long?" revelations.
I just installed a Tillman in my Squire Tele. I like the idea of the phantom ps, but I wanted to eliminate any kind of external paraphernalia other than the guitar cable going to my first effect. I used a stereo jack to disconnect the battery when the cable is unplugged from the guitar. I had read somewhere that the Tillman current draw is extremely tiny, so a battery should last a year or more even if you didn't switch it off between playing.
At first I tried placing three 3V CR2032 coin cells together in series in a homemade battery case made by wrapping the three cells with paper and gluing the paper with superglue using an accelerator. The glue turned the paper into a hard shell. I stripped and coiled about 2" of wire for the leads and folded the paper over the coils. I must not have squeezed the whole mess together enough before the ends cured because I had an intermittent open circuit. I resorted to using a standard 9V battery and made a bigger hole in the guitar for the battery. Fortunately, there's a lot of room under the Tele pick guard. The Tillman perf is about the size of a quarter. I found that
unshielded wire doesn't create any noise, but I'll install shielded cable if I start having problems or if I ever use it to play a gig.
Here are some photos:
Failed 3-coin cell holder:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/FA51C6B9-1EEB-4A98-87A0-7A65D814830B-19375-000008FC4DF28F21_zpsb1e65916.jpg)
Butcher work:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/C041C0BC-C73C-4F00-B226-233D35861B7F-19484-0000090073626F90_zpsd1470303.jpg)
Padding to keep parts from moving:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/4656FFEB-2D72-4325-9816-8BD5F3948DF8-19484-0000090106E3FAD1_zps24da437d.jpg)
Pick guard back on. The bypass toggle switch is mounted between the volume and tone pots:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/F3555F8B-313A-402C-A068-0235AD360DA4-19484-00000901D01F061A_zpsb1ddeffb.jpg)
I've put several circuits into guitars over the years. I build them, so it's fairly easy to add if you plan for them from the beginning.
My current project will have a Piezo pre-amp with TMB tone controls, GK pickup, Phase 90 and a Fuzz Factory. Some people may recognise that list ;)
Quote from: Jdansti on November 03, 2013, 10:14:56 PM
I just installed a Tillman in my Squire Tele. I like the idea of the phantom ps, but I wanted to eliminate any kind of external paraphernalia other than the guitar cable going to my first effect. I used a stereo jack to disconnect the battery when the cable is unplugged from the guitar. I had read somewhere that the Tillman current draw is extremely tiny, so a battery should last a year or more even if you didn't switch it off between playing.
At first I tried placing three 3V CR2032 coin cells together in series in a homemade battery case made by wrapping the three cells with paper and gluing the paper with superglue using an accelerator. The glue turned the paper into a hard shell. I stripped and coiled about 2" of wire for the leads and folded the paper over the coils. I must not have squeezed the whole mess together enough before the ends cured because I had an intermittent open circuit. I resorted to using a standard 9V battery and made a bigger hole in the guitar for the battery. Fortunately, there's a lot of room under the Tele pick guard. The Tillman perf is about the size of a quarter. I found that
unshielded wire doesn't create any noise, but I'll install shielded cable if I start having problems or if I ever use it to play a gig.
Which is why I mentioned a split Tillman - gate resistor, JFET and source ressitor in the guitar; drain resistor, battery, coupling cap and grounded resistor in an outboard box which would always be the first box in your signal chain (or could be built into the first box you use). The cable carries the drain current but it is operated at the 6.8K impedance of the drain resistor, even though it is on the other end. The board in the guitar could be the size of a dime. BTW, car keys that contain a door lock / unlock function use a tiny 12-volt battery you can get for $2. The giant 9-volt battery is not necessary.
>BTW, car keys that contain a door lock / unlock function use a tiny 12-volt battery you can get for $2. The giant 9-volt battery is not necessary.
Duh! :icon_redface: I didn't even think about running the Tillman off of a small 12V battery! I'm glad I learned this before I hacked up another guitar! Thanks!
Whilst I applaud the creative use of batteries like those, you really need to question if there's any need to such lengths.
Take for example the Telecaster above. It really doesn't matter what size cavity you have under the pickguard, you can't see it.
If you were looking for a reason to use the tiny 12v batteries, the only one I can see is if you had a really novel way of making them easily replaceable, like some sort of tiny aperture on the bottom of the guitar by the jack socket.
If you're having to remove pickguards or rear cavities, there's no advantage.
^True. I guess there's a psychological thing about carving out craters in your guitar, even if they're hidden. For me, the value of the guitar determines how willing I am to hack into it. ;)
Quote from: Jaicen_solo on November 04, 2013, 05:09:36 PM
If you were looking for a reason to use the tiny 12v batteries, the only one I can see is if you had a really novel way of making them easily replaceable, like some sort of tiny aperture on the bottom of the guitar by the jack socket.
That was the thinking behind using coin batteries for the onboard buffer - make a 'coin slot' that they can be inserted into. There are actually battery holders that would do that.
The other thing I can think of that might work is a tube of button cells, like a laser pointer, but with just batteries. The end cap would screw on and could be unobtrusive by being almost flush.
The sort of thing I was thinking of for a key fob battery:
http://www.gpbatteries.com/INT/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=368&Itemid=508
These things are tiny - they fit in a key fob and I can get them locally for $2 each. The 27A might fit a screw-in fuse holder. But seriously, a split Tillman, a 4 - 20 mA current loop or phantom power / carrier current would do the job without any batteries in the guitar and you still have the option of adding a switch to return the guitar to normal operation. My daughter has an acoustic guitar with a 3-band equalizer and a standard output jack and there is a 9-volt battery door built into the guitar. She has the option of using it as an electric or an acoustic guitar. Me, I only play air guitar.
I think I have a spare one of those little 12V batteries. I use them in a remote that controls some lights where I couldn't run wiring to a regular switch without a lot of effort. I think I'd have to bias the Tilman with a different resistance to accommodate 12V.
For a Tillman preamp, you only need two resistors and the JFET to be inside the guitar. The drain resistor and battery can be on the other end of the cable, along with the coupling capacitor and the ground reference resistor. You could build that into a 1590A with the battery, a power jack and the input and output jacks. Unplug the guitar cable at either end and the power shuts off.
(http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp/images/preamp.gif)
Only R1, R2 and Q1 need to be in the guitar. The rest of the circuit can be in a box at the other end of the guitar cable or incorporated in the first box you use, if you always have the same one connected. R3, R4, C1 and C2 can go elsewhere and the power can be provided by a battery or a regulated power supply.
Thanks.
I guess every option has pros and cons.
Tillman in a stompbox:
Pros:
-Provides a clean boost.
-No guitar surgery necessary.
-Easy to maintain
Cons:
-Doesn't make up for cable losses in the cable from the guitar.
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Tillman in guitar with remote power:
Pros:
-Helps overcome cable losses.
-Small footprint in guitar. Probably will not require an additional cavity.
-You don't have to open the guitar to change the battery.
-Great option if you always plug into the same first pedal or always use the same cable (with a battery).
Cons:
-There has to be a box or cable with a battery for it to work.
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Tillman in guitar with onboard battery:
Pros:
-Helps overcome cable losses.
-Self contained.
-Works with any setup.
-Battery changes can be made easy with a battery compartment that has a door.
Cons:
-May require an additional cavity in the guitar (not recommended if you are squeamish about hacking into your guitar ;) ).
-May require disassembling part of the guitar to change the battery.
I might not have caught every pro and con, so if anyone would like to, please feel free to add to the lists.
There is another option:
Tillman in the cable.
Pros:
Works with every guitar you have so you only need one
No guitar surgery necessary
Makes up for cable losses
Cons:
Needs cable surgery
Cable has an input and an output side
Works best with surface mount
What if the cable breaks?
Same thing as when any other cable breaks. No sound.
"But - but - but - but - but - but - but a normal cable won't work. Then you're toast!"
Yep. And you do the same thing for fixing that as you do for normal cables. Carry a spare.
Make two, they're small.
I used a relay in my Tilman-like pre-amp so that if the power source (battery) dies the relay opens up and the regular guitar path is restored. Using surface mount parts reduces the size of the PC board to around 1.75" x .75" which fits nicely into Les Pauls and strats. Mounting the pre-amp inside the guitar is not as difficult as you may expect. The only soldering may be three wires on the stereo jack that replaces the mono jack that most guitars use. A phone plug connects to the original mono jack inside the guitar. The modified guitar can be used with stereo cables to provide power to the pre-amp or in a pinch a regular guitar (mono) cable will still work but without the benefit of the pre-amp. Pictures are available at www.guitarpre-amp.com (http://www.guitarpre-amp.com).
I had a few preamps I tried in my strat and all it did was mess up my GE pedals which seem to want to have nothing in front of them for best tone. I took em out
Quote from: 80k on May 08, 2009, 12:14:29 PM
I'm considering working on a project where I install a fuzz, boost, and tremelo directly into a guitar. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and/or has posted a thread detailing their results?
You mean besides Gibson, Burns, Kay and a few other "pros?"
An EBOF is a Gibson EBO bass with a Maerstro fuzz built in (they made a few other F version basses, but mostly as one off custom orders back in the 60s); they tried a few other things over the years (see the 'Artist' series; RD, Victory and Sonex - not the Standard or Custom but the Artist versions).
All I have personally added to any guitar is the run of the mill passive clipping diode thing. I don't regret it but it isn't super useful. It's good for adding extra hair to the sound you get from your dist pedal or amp but not so great all on its own.
The main thing, I find, about onboard anything is that you lose the stomp switches so you have to use your hand. That's fine if you only turn things on or off in between songs, but you can't tell me you never wanna kick in a boost or dirt going in to a chorus from a busy verse.
So in my latest guitar build (inspired by the Gibson Low Z series, the LP Jumbo in particular - I had a coulple of those LoZ pups around as spares) I decided to not have any of the electronics in the guitar and will be putting them in a floor box; pup goes direct to jack.
Anyway, schems for the EB0F are readily available online if you want to see how that integration worked. Kay and Burns did a few multi-effect models (Kay did this LP looking thing with Fuzz and tremelo at least if not a few other things) but I don't remember the model names and don't know if schems are around.
... here's the Kay:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/turquoisemoleeater/guitars/KayLPFX.jpg)