Hi
I have just finished bread boarding the Slaktave MK II and as usual with me and bread boarding it did not fire up at ones. It's always something.. started to probe as usual but did not get any tone from the first OUT on opamp stage one???? Did a lot of testing and finally found that the schematics I have used (MK II ver.) has all inverting/non inverting op-amp stages "inverted" I Changed the fist stage and this stage works now. So I'm gonna rebuild the rest tomorrow.
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/slacktave.png)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=39358&g2_)
Q- Is this just a schematics "typo" or is there something I'm missing here?? I am using two TL072
BTW this thing has is a "killer sound" so I am really keen to get it to work. By the samples I have heard. Especially that one that starts with a Wha and adds a Phase90. That smells Kraftwerk. Bet you cloud play "Autobahn" with this one ;D
http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=300 (http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=300)
Thank's Slacker for designing it and Helge for those recordings I just love them.
Quote from: solderman on May 25, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
BTW this thing has is a "killer sound" so I am really keen to get it to work. By the samples I have heard. Especially that one that starts with a Wha and adds a Phase90. That smells Kraftwerk. Bet you cloud play "Autobahn" with this one ;D
Damn, I love Autobahn, gonna have to build me a Slacktave. I have a 4024 in my modular, but none in my parts drawer, so I guess I'll use a 4013 - I have a few of those spare.
EDIT: Just found a spare 4024 in my static-proof CMOS vault/Faraday cage. Cool! Is there a perf layout anywhere?
I already have a modded slacktave version 1, but this looks much cooler. Maybe it's time to upgrade.
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 25, 2009, 03:12:27 PM
EDIT: Just found a spare 4024 in my static-proof CMOS vault/Faraday cage. Cool! Is there a perf layout anywhere?
speaking of... an engineer once asked me, (a physicist) if i had a spare faraday cage...
OK, so the MkII octup uses a 4070 quad 2 input exclusive OR gate. I don't have any, but I do have some 4077 quad 2 input exclusive NOR gate, the truth table for a NOR gate is exactly opposite that of a OR gate. Am I right in assuming it should work in this application, the octave will just be inverted?
EDIT: I also wonder what difference it would make if the fundamental extractor is fed into the 4070, which is then fed into the 4024. So using the first three outputs of the 4024, you would (pesumably) get the original note but squared (which would sound quite synthy compared to the output of the fundamental extractor?), then 1 and two octaves down. Would this be the case? If so I think I might prefer a square wave of the original note to a "nasty comparator fuzz". Maybe? Or would it be essentially the same thing?
Quote from: solderman on May 25, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
Q- Is this just a schematics "typo" or is there something I'm missing here?? I am using two TL072
Yeah that's a typo, the opamps should be the same as in the original schematic, sorry about that. I'll correct the schematic tomorrow if I get time.
Rick, I think the 4077 should work, the fact that the octave up is inverted won't matter.
I don't think using the 4070 to drive the 4024 will make any difference. The third opamp section is a comparator so that already gives you a square wave, I don't think the output of the 4070 will sound any different.
Thanks Ian, I'll put a perf layout together to fit with my current 'wrong way round' enclosure series, with all the pots onboard the perf. I've had those CMOS chips knocking around for ages, I hope they work!
Quote from: slacker on May 25, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: solderman on May 25, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
Q- Is this just a schematics "typo" or is there something I'm missing here?? I am using two TL072
Yeah that's a typo, the opamps should be the same as in the original schematic, sorry about that. I'll correct the schematic tomorrow if I get time.
Rick, I think the 4077 should work, the fact that the octave up is inverted won't matter.
I don't think using the 4070 to drive the 4024 will make any difference. The third opamp section is a comparator so that already gives you a square wave, I don't think the output of the 4070 will sound any different.
No problem. It actually got me thinking and analysing why and how this thing works insted of just "building" it so it's actually for the better.
Corrected schematic is here http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/album170/slacktavemkII.jpg.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/album170/slacktavemkII.jpg.html)
Quote from: solderman on May 25, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
BTW this thing has is a "killer sound" so I am really keen to get it to work. By the samples I have heard. Especially that one that starts with a Wha and adds a Phase90. That smells Kraftwerk. Bet you cloud play "Autobahn" with this one ;D
http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=300 (http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=300)
Thank's Slacker for designing it and Helge for those recordings I just love them.
Hi,
thank you for your kind words - I feel honored. :)
Yeah I realy dig that kind of tb 303 sounds you can get with it - espacialy in the -1 mode. I did a minor mod to it though: I changed the octave down mix pot to a 100k lin. To me it sounds this way even more like a synthy.
As I'm realy proud of it here's a pic of it again - in the case slacker hasn't seen it yet. slacker, this is my way to say thank you.;)
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/hellge/K1024_CIMG2831.jpg)
At the moment I'm thinking about something like that - could take the slacktave to another dimension or at least to the mkIII. But I haven't got the guts to do it on my own - my best diy mate is on holydays.:D anyway, that's what I'm thinking about it:
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/hellge/suboktaver-slacktaveenv.png)
Regards
Helge
This is how I'm planning to build my MKII, with a volume pot for each octave. I put it past Ian, he made some improvements (thanks Ian!), though he's way ahead of me and was already planning something similar plus some for the MKIII. I'm just working on the perf layout.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/TruthTable.png)
That was quick Rick, nice work.
That looks great Helge, what are the little switches for?
Quote from: slacker on May 26, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
That was quick Rick, nice work.
That looks great Helge, what are the little switches for?
Hi,
nice work of yours, too.;) The three switches are for the octave modes. From above to down: -1/-2, off/-3, off/+1. Yes, you even can get a third octave down if you connet pin 9 of the 4024 - though it sounds reeeeaaaly weird. But I decides to make everything possible that was possible!:D But I got still problems with the octave up. It doesn't break through like in your samples with the octave down blended full out and sometimes it squeals like a cricket:D
@Ian: Great idea to have some seperats pots for the octaves. No it needs only some envolope conrolled vcf and vca.;):D
Regards
Helge
Quote from: Fuzz Aldryn on May 26, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
But I got still problems with the octave up. It doesn't break through like in your samples with the octave down blended full out and sometimes it squeals like a cricket:D
Check out the 100uf cap at the vref on Slacker's new schematic, and on my modification. That might help!
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 26, 2009, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Fuzz Aldryn on May 26, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
But I got still problems with the octave up. It doesn't break through like in your samples with the octave down blended full out and sometimes it squeals like a cricket:D
Check out the 100uf cap at the vref on Slacker's new schematic, and on my modification. That might help!
Hi Ian,
thanks - I was already thinking about that. Might be the reason as I did not included it. I'll gonna test it tomorrow as I realy fall asleep atm.
Regards
Helge
Quote from: Fuzz Aldryn on May 26, 2009, 05:48:08 PM
No it needs only some envolope conrolled vcf and vca.;):D
That should be possible. Depends on how complicated you want it to be, I was thinking of adding a simple VCF to the next version something like one of Tim Escobedo's quick and dirty ones or the one from the Music From Outer Space WSG.
It would be easy to add a couple of simple Attack/Decay generators and a VCA as well.
If you want something more like real synth filters and VCAs then it might be best to build those as separate units or have a look at the MFOS Sub commander (http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/GUITARSYNTHAUG2007/GUITARSYNTHAUG2007.html) guitar synth.
Hi Ian,
I attached a newer version of my oct up daughter board. Is it correct?
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/hellge/th_SlacktaveOctup2board.gif) (http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/hellge/?action=view¤t=SlacktaveOctup2board.gif)
Thank you!
Regards
Helge
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 26, 2009, 05:29:29 PM
This is how I'm planning to build my MKII, with a volume pot for each octave. I put it past Ian, he made some improvements (thanks Ian!), though he's way ahead of me and was already planning something similar plus some for the MKIII. I'm just working on the perf layout.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/TruthTable.png)
Hi. This looks very interesting. I will try this since I still have the original on my bread board and it will be quit east to re arrange.
Q- I see that you have altered the 220n cap to the 4024 to 100n. If I have calculated correct it, together with the 100K pot all the way (100K) it will cut at 16Hz but at 10K it will cut at 156 witch I find a bit high??
With 220n the same is 7.2 and 72 Hz??
Just wondering if this is intended ??
Quote from: solderman on May 29, 2009, 01:43:14 AM
Hi. This looks very interesting. I will try this since I still have the original on my bread board and it will be quit east to re arrange.
Q- I see that you have altered the 220n cap to the 4024 to 100n. If I have calculated correct it, together with the 100K pot all the way (100K) it will cut at 16Hz but at 10K it will cut at 156 witch I find a bit high??
With 220n the same is 7.2 and 72 Hz??
Just wondering if this is intended ??
No, that's a mistake it should be 220n as you say. I breadboarded this the other day, though I have to work out some issues, as I'm losing signal somewhere in the fundamental extractor. I'm also planning to add some wave shaping and I've kludged up this little circuit:
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/TruthWaves.jpg)
I haven't tried it yet, so it will need tweaking. The idea is that the first two opamps form an integrator to turn the square into a rough triangle/trapezoid, the "Shape" control defining the angle of the triangle/trapezoid. The third opamp/PNP tranny gets a sawtooth from the triangle/square, that bit I stole from nicolas3141 at electro-music.com: http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27934&sid=c1ec97a6487c38767b97ee03e38143d1
Hi
I have been testing a fiev thing on the bread board and this is my latest mod. I have used 2 TL072 and used the 1:st and the 3:d op-amp stage on the first TL72 and the 2:nd an 4:th on the 2:d TL072. This is because of PCB layout routing reasons I wanted to test this setup. I don't know if this is the reason but I have found that the effect of the pots was minimal and narrow so I supst them for 4 SPST:s. one of them is the 3:d oct down (thank's Helge) Instead I invoked a "boostable" (trim pot) dry signal amd made the dry and effected signal separately mixable in to OUT. I also invoked a switch to kill the "clean" square signal so I can mix the dry with the "only octave" Also supsted the 15K on op amp 1 to 33K to boost the signal that I found "choppy" I don't know why this is though but the signal chops and makes a terrible noise otherwise.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Slacktave%20II%20Mod.jpg)
Looks interesting :)
Quote from: slacker on June 01, 2009, 03:57:57 PM
Looks interesting :)
I totally agree with that - looks like I definetly have to build another Slacktave. But I'm sure it will be worth and fun.:)
Quote from: solderman on June 01, 2009, 03:54:19 PM
Hi
I have been testing a fiev thing on the bread board and this is my latest mod. I have used 2 TL072 and used the 1:st and the 3:d op-amp stage on the first TL72 and the 2:nd an 4:th on the 2:d TL072. This is because of PCB layout routing reasons I wanted to test this setup. I don't know if this is the reason but I have found that the effect of the pots was minimal and narrow so I supst them for 4 SPST:s. one of them is the 3:d oct down (thank's Helge) Instead I invoked a "boostable" (trim pot) dry signal amd made the dry and effected signal separately mixable in to OUT. I also invoked a switch to kill the "clean" square signal so I can mix the dry with the "only octave" Also supsted the 15K on op amp 1 to 33K to boost the signal that I found "choppy" I don't know why this is though but the signal chops and makes a terrible noise otherwise.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Slacktave%20II%20Mod.jpg)
Hi
What looks good in theory does not always work IRL. When I bread boarded this one, I discowered that the gain was to low so I changed to a JFET buffer but for some reason that resulted in that the 4070 started to self oscillate I can't find why so I ditched the Ideé of a dry mix.
Q I cant get a descent oct down on q1(p12) q11 works just fine and is grate with q3 added. I use a CD4024BE. Does it have to be some particular CD4024Bx to get q1 to work. I have tried 4 different IC:s to roll out faulty components.
It should work with and CD4024 as far as I know, I've tried ones from two different manufacturers and they both worked fine.
The one octave down setting on mine isn't quite as stable as the 2 octave down, it sometimes jumps between the octave down and the fundamental but it's still a good strong octave down.
A few posts back I think Rick (frequencycentral) mentioned feeding the counter with the output of the XOR gate; this way of doing x2, /2 will give exactly a 50% duty cycle for the fundamental, whereas taking the fundamental frequency output from the comparator directly may or may not result in 50% duty cycle. Perhaps not noticeably different, but different still.
Might be fun to try both. (Sym/asym mod)
Thinking a bit more about the XOR stuff, there are 4 gates in there, so you could potentially get 4 octaves up and divide from there for a whole buncha square wave octaves.
Hi
Her is a layout for the "Donkey Kong" Slacktave MKII+ mod. made to fit in a 1590A, what else ;D
NOT VERIFIED (yet planing on building it on Thursday if I can find time)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Donkeykong.gif)
PCB transfer
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Donkeykong.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Donkeykong.pdf)
BOM
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Donkeykong.txt (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/Donkeykong.txt)
Quote from: earthtonesaudio on June 02, 2009, 03:04:07 PM
A few posts back I think Rick (frequencycentral) mentioned feeding the counter with the output of the XOR gate; this way of doing x2, /2 will give exactly a 50% duty cycle for the fundamental, whereas taking the fundamental frequency output from the comparator directly may or may not result in 50% duty cycle. Perhaps not noticeably different, but different still.
Might be fun to try both. (Sym/asym mod)
I did start to breadboard this last week, though I had issues with the fundamental extractor. But I had to clear my breadboard for my forthcoming
'Promiscuous Girlfriend' (http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/PG.gif) project, which is on a timescale. I'll get back to it soon, as I'm dying to try the wave shaping circuit I posted. Square waves are all very well and good, but sawtooths (sawteeth?) are FAT.
Discrete XOR gate, for anyone interested:
http://www.ehobbycorner.com/images/discrete_logic_xor.gif (http://www.ehobbycorner.com/images/discrete_logic_xor.gif) ...not ideal (adding gain/buffering at the end might be good), but better than nothing if you don't have a 4070 or 4077.
Has anyone tried a 4060 instead of the 4024?
Can something cool be done with the extra internal oscillator?
Just saw that the 4060 doesn't have Q1 nor Q2.
Quote from: DWBH on July 14, 2009, 01:02:08 PM
Has anyone tried a 4060 instead of the 4024?
Can something cool be done with the extra internal oscillator?
Just saw that the 4060 doesn't have Q1 nor Q2.
The 4060 has no Q1, Q2 or Q3 outputs, so the highest octave down it would give would be -4 octaves. Maybe suitable for communicating with humpback whales?
Yeah, I noticed it (I edited my post) a couple of minutes later.
Bummer.
Quote from: DWBH on July 14, 2009, 01:34:03 PM
Yeah, I noticed it (I edited my post) a couple of minutes later.
Bummer.
Oh yeah, I didn't notice you had edited until after I posted. Oh well, at least it allowed me to make the humpback whale wisecrack..................
I haven't tried but I think you can wire the CD4060 up in such a way that you can gate the clock , sort of like how an Uglyface works, that would probably sound pretty cool. Like has already been said though the lack of suitable output means it wouldn't be much use for guitar unless you multiplied the signal up first. A CD4040 would work in place of the CD4024, but it would sound exactly the same.
Hey guys! Nut sure why I'm posting this, just felt like sharing. I've partially breadboarded an all-CMOS Slacktave. I'm using a 4069UBE and have the output stage and the 4024 divider built. It's currently fed by a 40106 oscillator, and plugged into a LM386 breadboard module. Obviously not done yet, and some things are still confusing, but it's nice to play around with :)