Hello everyone.
This would be my first project in electronics (actually, this is the first project at all :D ).
I've ordered a bunch of components from Farnell (UK-based distributors). I will post my feedback about those guys and dealing with them later on, when I receive everything.
I've ordered sh1tload of resistors, capacitors, diodes, several ICs etc.
Most likely, I will try to read, analyze and check the BYOC's schematic of their OD2 Tube Screamer replica and then I will try to come up with more-or-less usable layout.
This part is the most challenging to me, since I've got no experience what so ever. I would need your help guys.
This is kind of my work-progress topic. I will post time to time any updates, but no doubt it will be quite slow progressing project, since I have some exams in few weeks time, plus I don't have appropriate (small tip) soldering iron. I am planning to buy Hakko 936 somewhere close to Malta (Europe) where I live.
Anyways, hope we will all have some fun. And hope you don't mind sharing your experience.
Goals:
1. I want to make it all by myself. So it would be almost 100% hand built(maybe I will buy an enclosure, or maybe I will try to make in by myself)
2. Earn some experience for future, more serious projects (amps)
3. Have some fun
Ok...the work name is "The Lamuki's Belch"...not the best, but I cannot come up with something better for now.
Thanks all in advance.
I like the name.
Are you planning to do any mods to the circuit or will it be the usual TS?
I am planning to mod it...actually it would be heavily modded TS
You should get yourself a breadboard and try out all your mods on that before you solder anything up, so you know what they sound like before you commit things to perfboard. It's easier to do that than it is to unsolder things and replace parts, especially when there's a mess of wires for controls coming off the board and getting in the way of your soldering iron.
Yeah, cheers mate. I was planning to do that too. I have a breadboard but it is a bit weird.
I partially received my components.
Weird thing tho...box alike capacitors have really really short leads :( Is it normal?
Also, some resistors are 0.125W...is it ok?
So guys, 1/8 resistors won't fry if I use them for TS?
nope, those should be fine. i personally think those 1/8th watt resistors are adorable :icon_lol:
and yes, those short leads are normal as well
I've tried to do this http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_BoutiqueTubeScreamer_Rev1_1.pdf
I know nothing about electronics, trying to follow it.
Guys, I do not have a switch. How would I wire IN and OUT? :-/ Super lost.
Also, maybe you can suggest some good articles where I can read up on how to understand schematics and so on?
thanks
:( Damn it. I've tried to build TS for the 2nd time, made sure every components matches description and so on (except the 1uF+ cap, I've install NP 1uF cap).
Used MOSFET MC33502 chip
If you don't have any experience reading a schematic just use the breadboard layout. Make sure you go through after you are done though and use the breadboard layout to make sense of the schematic so you can learn from it.
for the breadboard, you won't want to use a switch, as it will make it more complicated to get it working. use the breadboard layout as suggested, and post some pics of it. we'll help you out from there
http://img9.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=10092009004.jpg
It works but in a weird way..
Volume pot is B100K, when I turn it half way, the volume level decreases but I can hear it. Clock or anti clock wise@full = no changes.
Drive pot B500k, lugs facing down, turned all the way clockwise = sounds like there is no drive.
Tone B25K = cannot hear difference at all, something can be heard at like 12oclock
i think the opamp you're using has a different pinout than a 4558. do you have a datasheet from who you bought it from? i found one on google but check your supplier to be sure
Full TS is 'kinda' complicated really.
Has more 'hurdles' and possible blocks than a simple booster with no switching.
I used to build the circuits on perfboard with above board components and offboard components...whatever it took to make 'this and that' easily swapped out or added to, so value changes here and there are not too difficult.
Never messed with a BBoard, but did make a 'testjig' which requires the circuit board have only the stripped-down version of the circuit [all the jacks, switching/wiring being in the jig and pre-tested, even some of the offboard wiring like the volume pot.
I liked the idea that most everything is soldered except the 3 necessary offboard wires [ground, input and output].
Anyway, the stripped down versions, put in the tested testjig certainly made it easier to debug the circuit boards, on many occasions I think.
Access to 'certain' components on the 'mod friendly' perfboard designs fascilitated modification-access seemed to work out pretty good as far as solid structure / reliable performance while affording some mod-ability.
Waiting for 4558 chips. As soon as I get them, I will post some updates
Quote from: spaceace76 on September 10, 2009, 04:46:03 PM
i think the opamp you're using has a different pinout than a 4558. do you have a datasheet from who you bought it from? i found one on google but check your supplier to be sure
I checked RC4558P and MC33502, the pins are the same :(
In order to gain more xp, I've tried to build B.May's treble boost.
I've tried to read schematics & almost managed to come up with my own breadboard "layout".
Quick question: Can you check 22K ohm resistor line, line 17 (breadboard). The line has these elements in this sequence:
"-ve" -> 22K ohm -> 1nF -> empty -> "bridge" with line11 -> pinout B
Does it matter if I swap, let's say in this way: negative -> 1nf -> 22K ohm and so on... ?
Does it matter if I swap, let's say in this way: negative -> 1nf -> 22K ohm and so on... ?
I wouldn't because it might, and I'm too lazy and not quite sure if I could tell straight out whether this alteration would matter.
Keeping the alterations down [like around 0], especially when trying to get one goin'...solidly recommendable.
That said, I don't see anything in the re-arranged line of components that would actually block signal.
Not exactly sure how the rolloff freq of the cap would change, check out AMZ's Labs notebook and R/C calculator.
Hm...I see, thanks.
Also, to get more xp, I am still trying to understand B.May's treble booster. I used 2n5088 transistor and I have really weird "overdrive". Is it normal?
Thanks.
Here is the sample file
http://rapidshare.com/files/280026395/bmay_treble_booster_test.mp3
Quote from: EARNEST on September 14, 2009, 01:06:40 PM
Hm...I see, thanks.
Also, to get more xp, I am still trying to understand B.May's treble booster. I used 2n5088 transistor and I have really weird "overdrive". Is it normal?
Thanks.
Here is the sample file
http://rapidshare.com/files/280026395/bmay_treble_booster_test.mp3
any help pls?
[Semi-Major Update, Progress 5%]
1. I've managed to build TS clone following this guide (http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_BoutiqueTubeScreamer_Rev1_1.pdf). The next step is to build [the same] TS, but on my own, no peeking :D
2. Although I've managed to more-or-less understand what is going on, lack of skills and knowledge slow me down, thus I've tried to gain those by doing a "mini side project" (see number 3), nevertheless, before I try to move to more advanced TS schematics....I'd need to try to build more "side projects" :)
3. I haven't managed to solve the problem with B.May's treble booster; not sure if that type of sound is normal, most probably something is wrong (2n5088?). Any help please?
4. Tone pot is now under control. B25K pot was swapped with B10K.
5. I've noticed if D1 diode is removed and B500K is fully engaged, I have some extra gain... (using 1n4001 diode). Any explanations, please?
6. Ok, the gain pot...I feel like I don't have enough of it. I guess, this is normal, TS is not a high-gain pedal...so I'd need to add certain mods that would give me more gain! :)
---
Later on, I shall try to record some sound clips and share them with you, guys.
But for now, here are some pics.
My working place (too messy) and the board (the 2nd panel, the 1st is B.May's booster)
[heavy photos]:
http://img21.imageshack.us/i/15092009001o.jpg/
http://img198.imageshack.us/i/15092009.jpg/
1. awesome! did you figure out what went wrong the first time?
2. don't worry about learning everything all at once. it will take some time and quite a bit of reading, building, and mistake making before you've really got the hang of it. stompbox-ing is a multi-faceted discipline, there's lots to learn and taking it one step at a time is preferable. one project can be overwhelming enough, don't jump into more until you work all the bugs out of the ones you've already got. which leads me to...
3. the sound your brian may is producing is definitely not normal. it's meant to be a clean-ish treble boost, but yours sounds extremely fuzzy. my guess is at least one of the transistors is mis-biased. double, triple, quadruple check all your values, connections, battery, jacks, pinouts, etc.
6. i'm not a TS fan, so i'm not much help with mods, or why you get more gain when removing the diodes. i think you're just changing the way the circuit clips
it's a little hard to tell what's going on in the pictures. what schematic did you use for the treble boost?
1. Most probably wiring :)
3. Instead of 2.4K, I used 2.2K resistor. And I am not sure about 47nF cap, I used something different, it was marked as ยต47J100
Schematic: http://www.beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_BMTrebleBoost.pdf
Thanks for your help.
Follow the debug technique: What to do when it doesn't work [sticky thread].
Every bit of info on that thread is good to follow.
Measuring the voltages that appear on the transistor pins is always a good idea after a stage is populated.
I use this order after populating, make sure the +/- of the power supply aren't connected, apply power, measure transistor pins [or other active components] for bais.
+1 to everything petemoore said. the TS is a popular pedal, so you should be able to find tons of debugging info on here with a good search. the brian may boost probably has good debug info as well.
the resistor sub should probably be fine. measure that cap, though. i'm not sure if you've mentioned if you own one, but you should have a multimeter to measure voltages, component values, continuity, etc.
Heys, guys.
How is it going?
Managed to build "light" TS on my own. Although, I had some difficulties with pots wiring :)
Anyways, the next step is normal TS808. And then, BYOC's or something else.
Can you help me out with this schematic, pls. I cannot understand what's happening there and why it is there:
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5631/ts808q.th.gif) (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/ts808q.gif/)
My guess:
1. V+, we connect all V+s together, the same trace...
2. The same for Vr? But what is Vr? Ground?
3. I am confused... the power source' (9V) positive leads to that circled area (what is that?), and its negative leads to the INput field...I'm really confused :( Any help, please?
Thanks
In the case of the TS Vr is the 'virtual' ground, it is a voltage of 4.5V, created by the two 10k resistors. The chip wants to see positive and negative voltage, so it virtually gets +4.5V and -4.5V with the ground (normally 0V) being shifted to the real 4.5V.
All points the refer to the Vr are connected to the Vr-point in the circle, same with the V+. It is a simplifiction in the schematic to have a reference name (Vr, V+) and connecting points to this name instead of really drawing the connections, which can get pretty confusing because of crossing lines.
Hope this helps
Greetz
I see, thanks mate. Although, I did not fully understand virtual ground and its purpose
I try to explain. The 4558 (as any similar opamp like the TL072 or the NE5532) need to be feed with a positive and a negative voltage (V+ and V-) which needs to be identical. That means, if you feed for example +1V in V+, you have to put -1V at V- . The battery only gives you +9V and 0V, but the chip here demands +4.5V and -4.5V. The trick is, these voltages are seen in respective to the voltage of the signal. Normaly, your signal oscillates around 0V. Now, by connecting the signalpath to Vr i.e. +4.5V, your signal oscillates around +4.5V with the same amplitude and frequency of course. The opamp now gets in V+ a voltage, that is 4.5V higher than the signal (9V from the battery - 4.5V from the signal = +4.5V) and in V- the voltage is 4.5V lower than the signal (0V from the battery - 4.5V from the signal = -4.5V). So you create a virtual bipolar voltage for the opamp by lifting the signal up +4.5V and so creating a virtual ground voltage for the chip.
I hope my description is not to confusing. ;)
Thanks, yeah its not confusing now :)
I am almost done (breadboard version) with this schematic, but I have a problem. I do not know what I should do with the field that is between the IN jack and 9V negative side....Any help here, please? Do I connect stereo's input lug with the 0.027uF cap and stereo jack's negative lug with the 9v "-ve" terminal?
P.S. Also, I've dropped 9 DC in sector, so the "+ve" terminal of the battery is directly defined as V+, while Vr and Ground are paralleled to it, I've measured and I have almost 4.5V (~4.2V)...I hope it won't affect the pedal in any way.
Anyway...I am almost done, I just need to "fix" the INPUT thingy.
Also, pins 4 and 8 of the IC are not shown on the schematic...what do I do with those?
Thanks in advance for your help....
Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57 drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34 drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+ drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make? ??? ::)
Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?
Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....
Couple of extra questions I cannot answer :(
1. What is the difference between the one I am using now (normal TS808) and
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ts-808.jpg (apart from extra transistors,resistors etc)
I thought the one I am building is the old school pedal Ibanez/Maxon used to produce (is producing).
2. How can I fix tone pot "characteristics": the real noticeable difference can be heard when the tone pot is either fully min'ed or max'ed
Quote from: EARNEST on September 19, 2009, 08:42:54 AM
Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57 drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34 drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+ drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make? ??? ::)
Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?
Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....
Quote from: EARNEST on September 19, 2009, 06:03:11 PM
Couple of extra questions I cannot answer :(
1. What is the difference between the one I am using now (normal TS808) and
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ts-808.jpg (apart from extra transistors,resistors etc)
I thought the one I am building is the old school pedal Ibanez/Maxon used to produce (is producing).
2. How can I fix tone pot "characteristics": the real noticeable difference can be heard when the tone pot is either fully min'ed or max'ed
Quote from: EARNEST on September 19, 2009, 08:42:54 AM
Not sure, if my pedal sounds ok. How can I make sure it works the way it should work?
Sample: http://rapidshare.com/files/282188482/ts808_test.mp3
(guitar w/EMG 81/85@18V -> breadboard -> laptop's Line-In port, software Audacity)
---------------
00:00-00:57 drive min, tone min, vol max (bridge/neck pups)
00:57-1:34 drive max, tone min, vol max (mix pups)
1:35+ drive max, tone max, vol max (mix pups)
---------------
Is that the sound that normal TS808 should make? ??? ::)
Pictures: http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=19092009r.jpg
I am not sure if i did clipping section Ok (pins 1-2, it is a bit confusing). Can you check it pls?
Substitutions:
(2n5088 transistors are used)
1. 511K res instead of 510K
2. 47K+2.7K+1K resistors in series instead of 51K res
3. B10K tone, B100K volume pots
That's it, I guess....
yours sounds slightly fuzzier than i would expect (again, not much of a TS fan). it should be something of a clean boost, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMRcph3E_v4
it could be that you're using high-output pickups. that might give the pedal more breakup like yours has.
the extra parts of that circuit are used for switching. it just turns the pedal on and off, and you'd have to remove it if you're not using a switch (which you have to do since you're on breadboard) or if using true bypass. the schematic you built yours from is perfectly fine.
as far as your tone control, does it radically change from one setting to another? is the change in tone very quick at either end of the knob? that could just be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong. i'm sure you double checked it when you noticed it though.
hope that helps
Quote from: spaceace76 on September 20, 2009, 02:44:03 AM
yours sounds slightly fuzzier than i would expect (again, not much of a TS fan). it should be something of a clean boost, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMRcph3E_v4
it could be that you're using high-output pickups. that might give the pedal more breakup like yours has.
the extra parts of that circuit are used for switching. it just turns the pedal on and off, and you'd have to remove it if you're not using a switch (which you have to do since you're on breadboard) or if using true bypass. the schematic you built yours from is perfectly fine.
as far as your tone control, does it radically change from one setting to another? is the change in tone very quick at either end of the knob? that could just be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong. i'm sure you double checked it when you noticed it though.
hope that helps
Thanks,
Damn it..I really don't know why it is a bit fuzzy :( Everything is checked, transistors are plugged in a right way :(
I'm clueless :(
Maybe it is because of Line-In...On my Bugera 6262-212 amp it is not that fuzzy :-/
I will try to breadboard it again...
Quotejust be a difference in taper, or perhaps it's connected wrong
can you explain the first thing, please?
i'd imagine that the line in on your computer has less headroom than your amp. that would also account for fuzzyness. it sounds like your pedal is totally fine! no need to breadboard it over again.
taper is a term used to describe the manner in which the resistance in a pot increases through it's travel. here's a graph of the different tapers, from RG's Secret life of pots:
(http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/pottaper.gif)
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
there's a whole section on taper there, labeled "Which Leads Us To Tapering"
the common tapers are linear, log/audio, and reverse log/audio. the tapers are indicated by the A and B prefixes before pot values. basically, if most of the change in resistance is on one small section of the pot travel, the control won't do much until it hits that section, and it'll happen all at once. i just noticed you used 10k instead of 20k. that would affect it's effectiveness as well. if you don't have a 20k pot at the moment, play with the value of that .22uF cap and see if you find something that works for you.
I see, thanks. I breadboarded it again. The same sound :) So I guess that's the way it should sound (unless I messed something up :-) ).
Now I will try to draw a layout for it and then I will start making a PCB. After that, I will start working on more advanced TS with more mods.
Not sure if I should keep the standard TS or sell it :D Kinda low on cash :)
To create your own layout is more difficult than I thought :D LOL
OK...
[MAJOR UPDATE, progress 30%]
1. As you might know, I've just finished the light and normal TS808 (successfully breadboarded), so now it is time to move, I think, to some more advanced schematics.
2. decomposition of the project helped me to grasp almost every aspect of it; technique of increasing level of difficulty with every successful build and increasing/decreasing abstraction on a certain schematic sector whenever needed - help a lot, I suggest to do the same to every newbie.
3. as I understood, the sound between breadboarded version and the "real" is completely different, so maybe that is the reason I was getting extra fuzz.
4. still learning many new things, and still there are many questions :D
---
5. Concerning number 1, I've analyzed GGG ITS8 and BYOC OD2 and, if I am correct, they are not that different and they are not THAT difficult...As result, I will accept the challenge :D I will build standard TS808 I've built already, however I will integrate:
A) several diode/FETs/LEDs/etc clippers (most probably, a rotary switch will be used) either on a different PCB(prefboard) or on the same board
B) "fatness" selection
C) polarity protection
D) booster (50:50)
E) extra nice mods
6. As a reminder, I am planning to build the pedal 100% hand-made, so it will take some time....I've realised that drawing your own layout is not fun and easy as I thought, it gave me a headache :-/
7. I am afraid of the size....I do not want to have huge a$$ pedal, so any suggestions are welcomed here
Ok, that's all for now
Pictures:
http://img9.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=20092009.jpg
---------------------------
---------------------------
[Questions]
Q1. http://img10.imageshack.us/i/20092009180049.png/
A) the diode is for polarity "safety', right?
B) why is there 100uF cap? :-/
Q2. BYOC's OD2 schematic does not show polarity "safety", right? They did not include it or what? page 38, http://buildyourownclone.com/overdrive2instructions.pdf
Q3. What should I pay attention to when I design my own layout? Can tracks of 9V+, 9V-, Vr "run" near each other? How far should In and Out be from those? Is it ok to use (overuse) jumpers (0 ohm resistors)?
Thanks in advance.
Q1A. Yes.
Q1B. Power filtering. not every power supply is all that clean or well regulated, and transients in the power supply equate to noise in your pedal. it's not always necessary, but usually if you're already going through the trouble of adding polarity protection it can't hurt to make room for filtering either.
Q2. Doesn't look like they did. Their designs have the gigging musician in mind, so they probably assume you'd be using the new pedal with a decent power supply.
Q3. I can't say much about PCB design, i haven't gotten into designing my own enough (not that i haven't done it) to look for serious design resources. hopefully someone can point us both in the right direction :D
Cheers mate, u've been very helpful!
Can anyone check pls, if the layout is correct and if it is acceptable;
otherwise, how should i fix it? what should i have in mind when i draw it?
thanks
http://img200.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=renderd.gif
I have a couple of questions about BYOC's schematic.
---------
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4352/byocod2sch.th.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/byocod2sch.png/)
----------
Q1. The Mids Switch, SW4:
a)Position On (left) activated: C4+C6 =>0.15 + 0.047 uF = ~0.2uF, thus around ~154Hz cut?
b)Position Off(mid) activated: C6 is filters, so 0.047 Uf, ~720Hz?
c)Position Om(right) activated: C5+C6 => 0.047+0.047 uF = ~0.1, ~ 339Hz cut?
Q2. The Clipping switch, SW3:
a)Position On (left) activated: LED clipping
b)Position Off (mid) activated: no clipping at all
c)Position On (right) activated: Diodes D3 and D4
Am I right?
Thanks
Quote from: EARNEST on September 21, 2009, 11:03:49 AM
Can anyone check pls, if the layout is correct and if it is acceptable;
otherwise, how should i fix it? what should i have in mind when i draw it?
thanks
http://img200.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=renderd.gif
Q1+2: looks right to me.
i'll try going over your pcb soon, and i'll let you know if i see anything wrong. it looks like the layout could be a bit tighter, but you should make sure everything's in the right spot before making huge changes.
I am working on a new layout, drawn with Eagle CAD
Layout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uqwyooZWjc
Quote from: EARNEST on September 23, 2009, 07:42:08 AM
Layout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uqwyooZWjc
found a bug, fixing it right now
If I will use a stereo input jack, would i need to connect the negative lug of it to the 9V battery directly? If yes, then there owuld be no need to create another pad for the 9V negative terminal, right?, thus, this part is kinda useless?
http://img246.imageshack.us/i/23092009171348.png/
Quote from: EARNEST on September 23, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
If I will use a stereo input jack, would i need to connect the negative lug of it to the 9V battery directly? If yes, then there owuld be no need to create another pad for the 9V negative terminal, right?, thus, this part is kinda useless?
http://img246.imageshack.us/i/23092009171348.png/
it wouldn't be necessary to put the negative lead on the board. it's sent to ground with the use of a mono cable in the stereo jack. plus, if you send it to the board, the battery will never be disconnected from the circuit, and your pedal will eat up batteries like no tomorrow. putting it on the stereo jack enables you to disconnect the battery when the cable is unplugged.
Everyday I learn something new :D Thanks, amigo.
Damn :D Need to re-draw the layout again :D Also, I printed it out and the pads are really tiny :( I am not sure if I will find eyelets of such small size.
P.S. revised version http://img8.imageshack.us/i/pcblayoutts808v05.png/
I am not sure if I can make this mod possible with jsut 1 switch:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/tstone.htm
Standard tone control vs mod'ed AMZ tone 6.
My idea was to put a SPDT switch before the 0.22 cap, but then I have some problems with the pot itself
it could be done with a 4PDT switch. here's a really sloppy representation of how it would be wired, thrown together in diylc in about 10 minutes. the transformer symbol is the closest it has to an inductor symbol.
(http://xldgiw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pPmMq5MPXvCdhbVwBLDTPrFq_4zECN1J_ai82yEBDsQs0YUBz8BMCgw72LJrErDkkqMOrUnvP3MPw-swwXJlFSklL7ckz5ZMW/tonestack.jpg)
these switches aren't hard to find. i saw a few with a quick googe search. the smallbear 4PDT at 12.99 is pretty pricey, though.
***PLEASE DOUBLE, TRIPLE, AND QUADRUPLE CHECK THIS***
it's very late and i just threw it together. please look it over before using it.
Thanks man, but i dont really know how 4PDT works :-/ Going to check it.
P.S. Also, I think I will try AMZ Tone 4 mode. But I've got an idea what you meant, cheers mate
Quote from: EARNEST on September 25, 2009, 04:45:50 AM
Thanks man, but i dont really know how 4PDT works :-/ Going to check it.
P.S. Also, I think I will try AMZ Tone 4 mode. But I've got an idea what you meant, cheers mate
I couldn't find how to wire 3/4 PDT switches. Any help, pls?
beavisaudio has a great article on switches
http://beavisaudio.com/techpages/Switches/
so a 4PDT would be the same as a 3PDT, but with the extra pole.
I see, cheers mate. I will check it and post some updates later on.
P.S. it sux that u cant modify ur first post and the topic's details :(
Can anyone confirm my layout, please?
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/179/notverified.th.jpg) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/notverified.jpg/)
Schematic: http://www.muzique.com/schem/ts808.gif
Quote from: EARNEST on September 27, 2009, 11:26:53 AM
Can anyone confirm my layout, please?
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/179/notverified.th.jpg) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/notverified.jpg/)
Schematic: http://www.muzique.com/schem/ts808.gif
Quote from: EARNEST on September 27, 2009, 11:26:53 AM
Can anyone confirm my layout, please?
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/179/notverified.th.jpg) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/notverified.jpg/)
Schematic: http://www.muzique.com/schem/ts808.gif
Any help?
the only thing i see wrong is that either Q1 or Q2 is drawn with the wrong polarity. you have +9v going to opposite sides of the transistors. if you're using the exact same one in both positions, one will get +9v on it's collector (correct) and the other will get it on it's emitter (incorrect). is this just the pinout of the devices you're using? if not you just have to remember to flip one when building. get the datasheet from your supplier or google one, but be sure its the EXACT same one and double check the polarities you marked on the layout.
i don't see anything else wrong, but i'll go over it once more and let you know if i spot anything.
thanks a lot, amigo.
Well, yeah, Q1 and Q2 are not going to be symmetrically installed.
Q1 has its collector on the most right side, the red positive trace.
so, Q1: E B C
Q2 has its collector on the top most side, the red positive trace
so, Q2: C
B
E
Thanks for pointing out. Also, I was wondering if polarity diode location matters? In theory (logically) it should matter, since it would be one of the first things on the pass of electricity? But is it possible to put the polarity diode in the end of the trace, where I have Vr?
Needed confirmation again, please :D
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4821/ts808.th.png) (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/ts808.png/)
Also, I have a question about AC (DC) jack. How do I wire it with the input stereo and battery?
Thanks
Quote from: EARNEST on September 29, 2009, 09:26:14 AM
Needed confirmation again, please :D
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4821/ts808.th.png) (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/ts808.png/)
Also, I have a question about AC (DC) jack. How do I wire it with the input stereo and battery?
Thanks
One more thing, are eyelets that important? should i try to find the right size or the PCB would be find without them?
i'm not sure what you're doing with the diodes, shouldn't there be two? or are you going for asymmetrical clipping? the switch looks a bit different from the BYOC schematic. they have a variable resistor to ground, but i don't see it on yours. where you have the polarity diode is fine.
for the battery/dc jack:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_3pdt_tb_dcjack.gif
and here if you're using a different switching profile:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=27
as for eyelets, you'll want to use eyelets and find some drill bits that will accommodate the size of the leads you're working with. diodes tend to be a bit bigger, and so do IC legs, unless you socket them. the sockets usually run about the same size as cap/resistor leads. transistor/transistor socket leads usually run about the same size too. Make sure the wire you're using can be accommodated by your eyelets and bits as well. I use a 1/32 bit, and the standard eyelet that DIYLC uses, (2.1mm). For diodes you might want to increase the pad size to say, 2.3 or 2.5, and increase your bit size a small amount.
OH, sh1te. True about the distortion resistor (4.7K ohms). I've connected it to the Vr trace :-/
Good one :D Need to fix it, it is good that you noticed it. Thanks.
I am going to do another separate (since I am not sure what exactly I like) PCB for the diode clipping stage with a rotary switch.
The wire I am going to use is most probably of 24 AWG. You have a link to those eyelets, please?
Link? i guess you mean to the drill bits? For larger eyelets, just make the pads bigger in eagle and drill the hole larger once the PCB is ready.
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Tools+-+Drills
pretty much everything you need for stompbox drilling (except maybe a drill press) is on those 3 pages.
Ok thanks, the real problem for me now is to find chemicals and eyelets :(
If you live in america (i can't remember if you said you did or not) you can try radioshack. you probably wont find any etchant that way though. they don't get it in much.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102868
other than that, if you've got a mom and pop old style electronics store near you that's the best option. etchant has to be shipped ground, so it takes forever.
and you don't need to find eyelets, you make them when you drill for the components. you just need a drill (preferably a drill press) and a small sized bit, like the one's smallbear carries. smallbear has etchant as well, but again, has to be shipped ground, so it might take longer.
Quote from: spaceace76 on October 02, 2009, 03:21:22 AM
If you live in america (i can't remember if you said you did or not) you can try radioshack. you probably wont find any etchant that way though. they don't get it in much.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102868
other than that, if you've got a mom and pop old style electronics store near you that's the best option. etchant has to be shipped ground, so it takes forever.
and you don't need to find eyelets, you make them when you drill for the components. you just need a drill (preferably a drill press) and a small sized bit, like the one's smallbear carries. smallbear has etchant as well, but again, has to be shipped ground, so it might take longer.
I am from Europe, Malta :) Thanks, anyways
I will buy FeCl3 on monday. So hopefully the first "beta" would be ready next week
i'm sure by now you've read about the standard method for etching, so i won't bore you with tips on that.
a while ago someone posted this instructable:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Sponge-Ferric-Chloride-Method-Etch-Circuit-Bo/
basically you use a sponge instead of a huge bath of FeCl3, and because of the slight abrasiveness of the sponge, the etch goes much more quickly. maybe you can give it a shot? i've been meaning to try it out. either way, good luck with your first etch!
thanks mate. the only thing that worries me is the size of pads and traces. I want to keep them nice, smooth and "alive" :D...and the last thing is quite difficult to achieve (from what I've heard) if the traces are thin
[UPDATE, 50% progress, MIGHT have bugs]
1. Tone mod have been implemented
2. Diode clipping stage, most probably, will be taken onto another PCB with a rotary switch
3. Fatness mod added (BYOC implementation, but maybe I will come up with something else)
4. Re-designed layout, some bugs were fixed (some might have been missed or added :D )
-----
Pictures: http://img202.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=ts808tonemod.png
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXqFLBy2_ys
----
Feedback:
Damn, I do not want to have a monster with sh1tload of switches :D but I am supa tempted to have all the possible mods.
In few hours I will get FeCl3....new updates are coming soon.
Hope to have some more replies from other members, not only spaceace76 :)
Spaceace76, thanks a lot, dude. You are very helpful. Cheers.
Should I add a booster, if yes, which one? I would most probably mod it too, to have a volume booster and maybe gain/overdrive booster...anyways, any replies are welcomed. thanks
P.S. I've optimized my layout, some tracks are shorter...
Quote from: EARNEST on October 04, 2009, 05:55:22 PM
Hope to have some more replies from other members, not only spaceace76 :)
agreed! where is the rest of the forum? i know i'm not the only one with advice for you! i'm not even a big TS fan, i can't make wacky recommendations for you or anything...
(but here i go anyway)
for boosters, try looking on youtube for clips. everyone seems to have a different preference for that sort of thing.
and will someone else chime in here?! he could use our collective genius. at this point he and i might as well just email each other :icon_lol:
Hm...what kind of switch would i need to select between different capacitors?
(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6153/cap.th.gif) (http://img260.imageshack.us/i/cap.gif/)
*waits patiently for someone else to respond*
:) Yeah......
Anyways, On-On-On switch for sure.... DPDT toggle?
Quote
i'm not sure what you're doing with the diodes, shouldn't there be two? or are you going for asymmetrical clipping? the switch looks a bit different from the BYOC schematic. they have a variable resistor to ground, but i don't see it on yours. where you have the polarity diode is fine.
I've realised it was OK. 4.7K should go to Vr, not ground. need to re-draw. I don't know what you were talking about...
So what about that switch? Any help, pls?
P.S. I was thinking about adding the mid range booster, for extra scooping...what do you think about it?
I guess I will join in.
A three position one pole rotary is the simple way. (SP3T, in switch terms) You can buy a rotary with more than one pole as well (easier to find), just leave the other poles unconnected. I assume by your pic you want to switch between three caps to ground.
You can also use a SPDT center off switch (on-off-on). You wire the smallest value capacitor end and ground to the middle lug, and the two higher sizes go on each outer pole. That way, with the toggle in the middle, you have the small value cap, with the switch on either side, you have the small value cap + the larger value cap on that side. It's not all nice and neat (it doesnt go from smallest to largest, rather medium -> small -> large) but it will work. I've used that trick a couple of times, I have a ton of center off switches from my dad's work trash bin that need to be given a home! :icon_rolleyes:
With three caps, you cant use a DPDT - there's only two throw positions!
As for the mid range booster, it's your call. Do you want your midrange boosted? Try it out, if you think so - not too difficult if you have a decent parts supply at home and a B-board, but if you don't I guess you have a little bit more research to do beforehand.
Thanks for your input. Appreciate it. I am going to use a 4 way rotary switch for the capacitor mod, 3 different caps + 1 bypass.
I can buy some of your components if you can ship them to Malta (Europe) :)
I'd like to have an option either to cut or boost the mids. "Thrash" mod :D Not sure if it is a good idea for such pedal as TS
Thanks again. It is a good thing to have some new faces :D
Quote from: EARNEST on October 11, 2009, 07:47:25 PMThanks again. It is a good thing to have some new faces :D
Right on! and a big +1 to everything JKowalski said.
Where do you get your parts anyway? if it's a website we can use it to provide part numbers, etc.
Quote from: EARNEST on October 08, 2009, 10:59:04 AM
Quote
i'm not sure what you're doing with the diodes, shouldn't there be two? or are you going for asymmetrical clipping? the switch looks a bit different from the BYOC schematic. they have a variable resistor to ground, but i don't see it on yours. where you have the polarity diode is fine.
I've realised it was OK. 4.7K should go to Vr, not ground. need to re-draw. I don't know what you were talking about...
you're totally right! dunno what i was thinking there. somehow "+4.5v" meant ground at the time :icon_lol:
my apologies for the mixup.
Quote from: spaceace76 on October 11, 2009, 11:22:25 PM
Quote from: EARNEST on October 11, 2009, 07:47:25 PMThanks again. It is a good thing to have some new faces :D
Right on! and a big +1 to everything JKowalski said.
Where do you get your parts anyway? if it's a website we can use it to provide part numbers, etc.
Quote from: EARNEST on October 08, 2009, 10:59:04 AM
Quote
i'm not sure what you're doing with the diodes, shouldn't there be two? or are you going for asymmetrical clipping? the switch looks a bit different from the BYOC schematic. they have a variable resistor to ground, but i don't see it on yours. where you have the polarity diode is fine.
I've realised it was OK. 4.7K should go to Vr, not ground. need to re-draw. I don't know what you were talking about...
you're totally right! dunno what i was thinking there. somehow "+4.5v" meant ground at the time :icon_lol:
my apologies for the mixup.
I get parts from www.export.farnell.com
A great company.
Also, I thought the same about 4.5V :-) Maybe we were checking the wrong schematic.
Can you suggest what wire/cable I should use for input/output
http://export.farnell.com/ or here https://www.allelectronics.com
Thanks.
by input/output, you mean wires that run to the switch? standard hook-up wire, in 24 gauge will work great
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/825450/Wire-/-Cable/Hook-Up-100-Rolls-/1.html
those are 100 foot rolls, so i'd say unless you have MANY more pedals planned just get one or two colors.
i meant shielded wire/cable, sorry :)
do you mean for patch cables? shielded wire isn't necessary for inside stompboxes unless it's a notoriously noisy one, which the tubescreamer isn't.
for 1/4" cables though i'd say George L's, but i have no clue where to get that in europe ???
someone else have an idea?
I see, thanks.
In few days I will go to my friend's and print a layout. So soon I will start etching process. There are 4 obstacles till now:
1. Quality of actual PCB (tracks, pads etc)
2. Eyelets (I cannot find them, no ideas what exactly I would need)
3. To cut the PCB...I have a small hand saw, but I might break the board (i.e. cracks in some places)
4. Oxidization of tracks (how to tin it and so on) + I cannot find solder masking agent for "permanent" protection of tracks
i think we have some confusion on what we both consider eyelets. what are you referring to, exactly?
and for board cutting this page has some great techniques:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/DirectPCBoards/DirectPCBoards.htm
as far as your quality of pcb, read all the info you can on it. there are lots of little tips that everyone who makes a photoessay will have. absorb them and do a test etch if you have to, keeping in mind all the things you've heard. one tip i can give, is that etching isn't necessarily just about getting a good etch, it's about developing a repeatable process that will work almost flawlessly every time. that way, the next time you etch you won't become discouraged or have to look up all the info again just to make sure you're doing things properly. develop a routine that works well, and stick to it.
i've never looked into solder masking, i'm not even sure it's necessary. that's worth discussing in a new topic, though. start one and see what people have to say.
I was referring to this http://www.intertronics.co.uk/products/eyelets.htm
[UPDATE, 85% PROGRESS]
---MORE INFO COMING SOON--
1. POSSIBLE REAL NAME IS "WILD BANSHEE"
2. GOING TO ETCH TONIGHT
3. TS808 LAYOUT IS READY...
Quote from: EARNEST on October 16, 2009, 04:19:26 AM
I was referring to this http://www.intertronics.co.uk/products/eyelets.htm
ohhhhh. yeah that's not necessary either. i just use a drill press and a small sized bit. once you etch, the copper kind of guides the bit into the space that needs to be drilled, so precision isn't necessarily an issue. is there a reason you wanted to use eyelets?
to protect tracks and sh1t like that...extra protection
P.S. no success to transfer the layout to the board....some tracks break too easily
Transferring layout and etching = total B!?CH!!!!! I cannot succeed, damn it! :(
Is it Ok? I do not know how to make a PCB with better quality tracks :( Maybe PNP paper?
http://img98.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=16102009.jpg
P.S. super tired :D
what's your current transfer method? i've read here that you can use stuff like glossy magazine paper. i remember a few topics about alternatives, one that lots of people rave about is the paper stickers come on. get some sticker paper from an office supply store and try it out
I'm lovin' this thread. Space, Earnest I think you guys are doin' a bang up job. I just purchased a bunch of components myself (the entire parts list of the BYOC OD2) and am following this thread with much anticipation.
Quote from: spaceace76 on October 17, 2009, 12:52:30 AM
what's your current transfer method? i've read here that you can use stuff like glossy magazine paper. i remember a few topics about alternatives, one that lots of people rave about is the paper stickers come on. get some sticker paper from an office supply store and try it out
Laser printer -> Glossy and cheap magazine paper (or even standard A4 paper, it still worked for me) -> Iron + Paper + FR4 PCB -> Etch solution (I did not know the proportions, so I've mixed like a glass of hot water, maybe a bit more with like...dunno, 10 dessert spoons of FeCl3).
I will work on this board, since I've ruined it yesterday, that proved that I need a drill presser (stand) 100% + I'd need a really small drill bits. So after this, I will post a DETAILED report. Hopefully the board works, so I can re-make it (
QUALITY OF TRACKS!!!! DAMN IT!!! NEED MORE HELP HERE PLS) and add some video files.
What are those paper stickers? Small memo papers?
Slandsaw, glad about it, dude! Check for some more info later on. This is my first project.
----
Also, I need to order more hardware parts. I do not have any switches, good cables, iron with small tip, drill press etc...
----
P.S. going to add "Wild Banshee" to the board and some more copyrights :D
beta prototype PCB
http://img34.imageshack.us/i/18102009001.jpg/
Brief report:
1. LOTS of rosin
2. I have a good solder iron (old school) but its tip is too big, that is why it is messy
3. Need more experience
here's what i mean:
http://www.staples.com/Staples-Sticker-Paper/product_490429?storeId=10001&jspStoreDir=Staples&cmSearchKeyword=sticker+paper&fromUrl=home&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&cmArea=SEARCH&ddkey=StaplesSearch
basically peel off the sticker (or use it for something!) and use the glossy/waxy side of the backing paper (the non-adhesive paper, what the sticker paper is attatched to) for your transfers. this stuff is fairly cheap, and any office supply store should have some. the thinking behind this is that it's made for something adhesive to come off of it, so it will readily release the ink for transfer.
you can clean off the rosin, do a search here and maybe even google. i'm betting all you need is rubbing alcohol, or some other easy to find chemical.
is the tip removable? tips don't last forever, so hopefully you can find a replacement in a suitable size. the larger tip isn't bad, but as you've experienced it lacks some of the control necessary for finer soldering jobs. either way, you did a good job here, perhaps a little thick in spots, but with your iron i wouldn't expect anything different.
and experience will come! you're getting there, don't worry for a second.
Going to order a drill stand (Dremel Workstation), more info & details are coming soon
The project is on hold for a week or so. Need to order some tools + no time and no space, since I am moving in to another house.
good luck with the move! take your time on the build, it'll be waiting when you're ready.
I have ordered some more tools and components. As soon as I get them and I'll find some spare time, I will upload the thread :) Also, need to buy some new soldering station, however i am too broke :( Damn it
Extra components and tools are bought. Time for my new soldering unit...
The project is NOT dead, just NO f**** time :) As soon as I am done with my exams and get, hope so, a new soldering unit, I will continue
sweet! ready when you are dude!
Got some free minutes. Prototype in developing (sorry for bad scan quality, no camera for now)
http://img13.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=001ph.jpg
Ok, a very long break, lots of studying and some financial difficulties. Finally I've bought a station I wanted.
Some pics:
http://img13.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=30072010.jpg
I am working, so as soon as I get some off time, I will continue :)
Had to resolder all board, forgot everything, and found some tracks damaged, i will need to re-etch