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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: B Tremblay on December 24, 2009, 07:26:22 AM

Title: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on December 24, 2009, 07:26:22 AM
Tri-Vibe is a versatile modulation effect that offers true vibrato.  Check it out: http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html

Four sound clips are available on the Sounds page: http://runoffgroove.com/salvo.html#tri-vibe

Happy holidays to all!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: frequencycentral on December 24, 2009, 07:38:35 AM
Nice, the LFO curves are particularly interesting. Thanks ROG!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 24, 2009, 09:02:00 AM
We've been working on this project for quite a while, mainly fine-tuning the LFO shape for optimum vibrato sound and good noise performance.

Some highlights of this circuit are:
1) No trimming or matching of components
2) Noise reduction and improved dynamic range by means of pre/de-emphasis networks and use of the linearizing diodes included in the LM13600
3) LFO waveform optimized for smooth vibrato
4) Mild phaser and pseudo-leslie sounds also available

A PCB is in the works and will be added soon to the project.

Merry Christmas all!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: frequencycentral on December 24, 2009, 09:17:22 AM
Put a fixed phase shift stage either side of the OTA stages (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80456.0) and it would make a cool phaser too.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on December 24, 2009, 09:31:20 AM
Put a fixed phase shift stage either side of the OTA stages (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80456.0) and it would make a cool phaser too.



That is an option that we tested and would have included if our aim had been to create a phase shifter project.  However, our focus was vibrato and added phase shift stages (fixed and/or swept) did not benefit our target sound.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: petemoore on December 24, 2009, 09:45:06 AM
 Very nice !
  Beautiful sweep-tones on this one !
   
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: drk on December 24, 2009, 10:05:07 AM
nice sound clips!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: morcey2 on December 24, 2009, 10:12:06 AM
Will this work with the NJM13600D that small bear carries?  I've got an order to put in there in a couple of days and figured that I'd add a couple of they would.

It sounds really good!

Matt

edit:  So I read ALMOST all the way down to the bottom of the page before I posted this.   :icon_redface:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: aziltz on December 24, 2009, 10:21:35 AM
Hi Five!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: isildur100 on December 24, 2009, 10:33:17 AM
Very nice work! Congrats!    :icon_smile:

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on December 24, 2009, 11:21:54 AM
Sounds are great, and the schematic looks quite buildable. Nice.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 24, 2009, 02:51:41 PM
Will this work with the NJM13600D that small bear carries?  I've got an order to put in there in a couple of days and figured that I'd add a couple of they would.

It sounds really good!

Matt

edit:  So I read ALMOST all the way down to the bottom of the page before I posted this.   :icon_redface:
During prototyping I used both JRC13600 (from Smallbear) and LM13700 (from a local supplier).  Both worked OK, so I'd say this covers both JRC and National Semiconductor devices, as well as both OTA flavors (with and without variable bias for the output stage).
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 24, 2009, 03:02:44 PM
Put a fixed phase shift stage either side of the OTA stages (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80456.0) and it would make a cool phaser too.

That is an option that we tested and would have included if our aim had been to create a phase shifter project.  However, our focus was vibrato and added phase shift stages (fixed and/or swept) did not benefit our target sound.
In order to have smooth vibrato, the requirement is to have even phase variations across the frequency range of interest.  This means, +/- 45º or so within a frequency range from 80 Hz up to 4kHz (for guitar).  The choice of the 15:1 ratio for the capacitors effectively optimizes this requirement.  Using equal capacitors, or adding two or more fixed stages defeats this adjustment, increasing the motion-sickness effect which we tried to avoid like the plague.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jmasciswannabe on December 24, 2009, 10:46:55 PM
Sounds killer!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: spaceace76 on December 25, 2009, 12:06:30 AM
awesome design! can't wait for a layout. based on the clips, the fact that it doesn't need special adjusting, and that the speed pot is single gang, i'd call this a univibe killer! Thanks again ROG
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on December 25, 2009, 01:30:12 AM
PCB coming up.
Sorry for the wait guys.
Having a two years old in your care
makes for slow work...

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gigimarga on December 25, 2009, 04:20:36 AM
Awesome project!

Thx for it!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on December 25, 2009, 04:44:02 AM
Wait--no perf? Fom ROG?!?  :o
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: StephenGiles on December 25, 2009, 08:24:16 AM
This sounds very nice indeed. On the complexity level though, on a level of 1 to 3 I would put it at 1.5 on the basis of building straight to veroboard. I don't do veroboard layouts, I just build it!. There's too much dumbing down these days!!!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on December 25, 2009, 09:09:34 AM
This sounds very nice indeed. On the complexity level though, on a level of 1 to 3 I would put it at 1.5 on the basis of building straight to veroboard. I don't do veroboard layouts, I just build it!. There's too much dumbing down these days!!!

The complexity level is relative to the other projects presented at runoffgroove.com - obviously veteran builders can ignore such a rating.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: WhenBoredomPeaks on December 25, 2009, 11:40:41 AM
Thats probably my favourite thing from the entire site :o

Awesome work, i take it as a christmas present. ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 25, 2009, 01:04:14 PM
Here's a preview of the PCB I made for the Tri-Vibe today.
It will fit in a 1590B
As soon as it's verified I will post the transfer and the partslayout.

As you can see it has a TL064 for the LFO.

(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20Layout.gif)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 25, 2009, 03:52:11 PM
That is working fast, André.

Even though I cannot fully verify the PCB from the image you post, I see some points you might want to check:

1) The two 39k resistors on pins 2 and 15 of the LM13600 should be 3k9 (3900 ohms) in value.
2) I only spot two of the three terminals for the mode switch.
3) I'd suggest making the diameter of the 470uF capacitor larger in comparison to the 10uF caps.  At least the ones I've seen are a bit wider than that, unless you get a very low voltage cap like a 10V device.

Thanks for your enthusiasm!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 25, 2009, 05:54:15 PM
Sebastian, thanks for your helpful response.

1) Changed the 2 resistors from 39k to 3k9
2) I planned to solder the 2 resistors to the switch, because I can't find the space to put them on the PCB.
3) done



Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 26, 2009, 08:53:03 AM
Sebastian, thanks for your helpful response.
Hey, no problem!

2) I planned to solder the 2 resistors to the switch, because I can't find the space to put them on the PCB.
Having the resistors external to save board space is fine, but you still need three wires connecting this switch assembly to the PCB. Since I only saw two "SW" pads, it seems one is missing.  If the pads are not together, I suggest labeling them as SW1, SW2 and SW3, to avoid mistakes when running the wires.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 26, 2009, 09:03:07 AM
Quote
Having the resistors external to save board space is fine, but you still need three wires connecting this switch assembly to the PCB. Since I only saw two "SW" pads, it seems one is missing.  If the pads are not together, I suggest labeling them as SW1, SW2 and SW3, to avoid mistakes when running the wires.

You don't really need 3 pads because the 2 resistors that connect to the switch are also connected to each other,  but after all I did manage to find some space on the PCB for these 2 resistors and guess what I called the pads...  sw1, sw2 and sw3  :)

I made a PCB with your suggestions and some other minor changes this morning and I'm soldering right now.
I'm not sure if I can finish it today because we have some family visits to do, but I hope to have a build report soon.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 26, 2009, 12:58:13 PM
You don't really need 3 pads because the 2 resistors that connect to the switch are also connected to each other...
Now I see what you mean, you're right, only two wires are necessary if the resistors are soldered directly to the switch.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: zeta55 on December 26, 2009, 01:26:24 PM
Sounds great, a got to try I guess :)

/Krister
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 26, 2009, 01:54:41 PM
So it's finished and sounds just like the sound clips on RunOffGroove, but only after I shorted the leads of the 820k resistor near the rate potentiometer.
Could it be that this resistor needs to be 820R instead of 820k?
Also I had to reverse the depth pot.

I am very happy with the result of this build.
Big thanks to RunOffGroove for this great project.

The populated PCB:
(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20PCB%20finished.jpg)

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: MikeD on December 26, 2009, 02:08:04 PM
The effect sounds superb.  Can't wait to make my own!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on December 26, 2009, 02:19:31 PM
So it's finished and sounds just like the sound clips on RunOffGroove, but only after I shorted the leads of the 820k resistor near the rate potentiometer.
Could it be that this resistor needs to be 820R instead of 820k?
Also I had to reverse the depth pot.

I am very happy with the result of this build.
Big thanks to RunOffGroove for this great project.

Wow, that's very fast and impressive work.  I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying the circuit.

Are the pads for lugs 2 and 1 of the Rate pot connected on your layout?  It's difficult to tell from the above image.  The 820k resistor value is correct.  Regarding the Depth pot, on the above image the lugs are not marked, so maybe you wired that pot in reverse at first?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: WhenBoredomPeaks on December 26, 2009, 03:08:40 PM
So it's finished and sounds just like the sound clips on RunOffGroove, but only after I shorted the leads of the 820k resistor near the rate potentiometer.
Could it be that this resistor needs to be 820R instead of 820k?
Also I had to reverse the depth pot.

I am very happy with the result of this build.
Big thanks to RunOffGroove for this great project.

The populated PCB:

Awesome! ;D

Is that red LED (around the middle of the pcb) make any light? Could i profit from making a hole for that LED in the enclosure? (show LFO speed, or anything fancy)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 26, 2009, 03:10:38 PM
Quote
Are the pads for lugs 2 and 1 of the Rate pot connected on your layout?  It's difficult to tell from the above image.  The 820k resistor value is correct.

They were not , but are connected now, and it works OK now.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
The rate pot's operation is now reversed too, which means that both pots are the wrong way around in my design, but this can be fixed easily.


Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 26, 2009, 03:13:06 PM
Quote
Is that red LED (around the middle of the pcb) make any light? Could i profit from making a hole for that LED in the enclosure? (show LFO speed, or anything fancy)

No, it does not light up at all, so no LFO speed indicator I'm afraid.  :(
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Scruffie on December 26, 2009, 03:22:42 PM
Hmm... none of the images are showing up for me on Firefox or I.E. Anyone else having this problem?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: frequencycentral on December 26, 2009, 03:30:29 PM
Hmm... none of the images are showing up for me on Firefox or I.E. Anyone else having this problem?

I don't see any images either.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 26, 2009, 06:07:46 PM
Quote
Is that red LED (around the middle of the pcb) make any light? Could i profit from making a hole for that LED in the enclosure? (show LFO speed, or anything fancy)

No, it does not light up at all, so no LFO speed indicator I'm afraid.  :(
You can easily have RATE indication as I did during prototyping stage:  connect a 2k7 resistor in series with an LED from U3:pin1 (squarewave output of the LFO) to GND.  You may want to adjust resistor value for optimum brightness, perhaps between 2k2 and 10k.  In my case 2k7 was pretty bright with a transparent red LED.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: liquids on December 27, 2009, 03:57:18 AM
On the complexity level though, on a level of 1 to 3 I would put it at 1.5 on the basis of building straight to veroboard. I don't do veroboard layouts, I just build it!. There's too much dumbing down these days!!!

 ::) ::) ::)

The complexity level is relative to the other projects presented at runoffgroove.com - obviously veteran builders can ignore such a rating.

What tact you have!  On the other hand, I think the ratings are a good idea for those who aren't veterans, who get excited by the soundclips, but don't yet have the experience and foresight enough to know if such a build is beyond them or not...we all were (and are) first timers...some more recently than others.  It's good to give a difficulty warning for some...

 A quick comment in that vein - you might want to specify "NJM13600/NJM13700" as an equal alternate part type at the bottom, or in addition to saying LM/JRC type...since that is how they often appear listed on Smallbear and other sites.  Hopefully this will save you a little hassle in clarifying that on hundreds of e-mails.  Someone is bound to miss it and ask "I can't find LM or JRC..." when Smallbears is right there,  or even "All I can find is an NJM13600..."   :)


Non-veteran builders can likewise ignore our favorite grumpy old man, above :D   Alas, we all stand on the shoulders of others (giants) who came before us when it comes to this hobby.  Some of us are lucky enough to learn enough that we can actually contribute things and offer it to others, like Stephen has.  In that vein -- great stuff here!  Always glad and appreciative to find another of your fun 'labors of love' on runoffgroove -- and a cool project at that, B!  

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on December 27, 2009, 07:37:42 AM
I just want to point out that in the above post, the quoted names are switched.

Those alternative OTA part numbers are now mentioned in the text, thanks.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: liquids on December 27, 2009, 08:59:51 AM
I just want to point out that in the above post, the quoted names are switched.

Sorry B...wont let me edit it!   :icon_sad:

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 28, 2009, 09:10:39 PM
this is cool. Ive found my next build.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on December 29, 2009, 04:33:57 AM
this is cool. Ive found my next build.

... me too. Still waiting for the layout as I'm too lazy to do my own and the previous posted one looks pretty good.:)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 29, 2009, 07:32:24 AM
Ugh i cant do pcb so i always do pad per hole. Sometimes i follow ROGs PPH layouts. This is a big circuit so id prolly have to. I plan on using two dual op amps instead of a quad so that might be trouble. I wanna put this in an amp. Not too interested in the swirl effect. Maybe a little.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: MikeH on December 29, 2009, 01:36:50 PM
Totally awesome as always!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 30, 2009, 02:15:10 AM
ugh I want this right now!!!

what about putting this in an amp? does vibrato in fenders go after or before tonestack?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on December 30, 2009, 04:52:35 AM
ugh I want this right now!!!

what about putting this in an amp? does vibrato in fenders go after or before tonestack?
After, between the preamp and the phase inverter (in black/silver-face Fenders, anyway).

BUT, the "vibrato" in Fender amps is really a tremolo (modulates the volume following an LFO), and the "tremolo" on Fender guitars is really a vibrato (modulates the pitch). So don't expect this to sound like a Fender amp "vibrato," because it is an entirely different effect.

BTW, is anyone doing an RTS board for this one?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 30, 2009, 06:51:13 AM
.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 30, 2009, 06:53:12 AM
ugh I want this right now!!!

what about putting this in an amp? does vibrato in fenders go after or before tonestack?
After, between the preamp and the phase inverter (in black/silver-face Fenders, anyway).

BUT, the "vibrato" in Fender amps is really a tremolo (modulates the volume following an LFO), and the "tremolo" on Fender guitars is really a vibrato (modulates the pitch). So don't expect this to sound like a Fender amp "vibrato," because it is an entirely different effect.

BTW, is anyone doing an RTS board for this one?


WTF? why would fender do that? Anyway the sound I want is like this guy who uses two fender amps at the same time. One has tremolo and one has vibrato. So I dunno what to do.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: aziltz on December 30, 2009, 01:23:32 PM
No Fender amp has pitch vibrato though.  I think he's just using two Fender amps, one calls it Tremolo, one calls it Vibrato.  Same Volume-WaVeRiNg effect.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 30, 2009, 04:00:04 PM
Here's my PCB design and partslayout for the runoffgroove Tri-Vibe:

(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/andre_schaap/Tri-VibePCBLayout.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: soggybag on December 30, 2009, 04:38:41 PM
That 820K resistor looks odd to me. Seems if the pot is at one extreme you have 310K at the other the 820K does nothing. Since the pot is already reverse log we're getting some strange resistance curve with the 820K across the two lugs. Is the intent here?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Paul Marossy on December 30, 2009, 04:56:10 PM
Nice work from the ROG team! Sounds really nice man.  :icon_razz:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Morocotopo on December 30, 2009, 05:59:24 PM
Very nice! i like the sound samples, sounds really cool.
Of course, I´m already thinking about mods and hot rodding the thing... for example, the 47 and 100K resistors switched by the SPDT could be replaced with a 100K pot with a SPST to get all the variable sounds between "whirl and swirl", besides the vibrato. What do you think? Or, letting my mind fly freely, two of them fed by a low pass and a high pass filter respectively and recombined at the output, "leslie in a box"...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 30, 2009, 10:10:17 PM
That 820K resistor looks odd to me. Seems if the pot is at one extreme you have 310K at the other the 820K does nothing. Since the pot is already reverse log we're getting some strange resistance curve with the 820K across the two lugs. Is the intent here?
Yes, the 820k resistor is there on purpose to limit the minimum RATE and tame a bit the logarithmic nature of the pot.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 30, 2009, 10:31:58 PM
Very nice! i like the sound samples, sounds really cool.
Of course, I´m already thinking about mods and hot rodding the thing... for example, the 47 and 100K resistors switched by the SPDT could be replaced with a 100K pot with a SPST to get all the variable sounds between "whirl and swirl", besides the vibrato. What do you think?
Yes, I already thought about a third pot during development, but we opted for the simplicity of a switch as this produces well defined and reproducible sounds.  Nevertheless, for what you want the way to go is as follows:

1) Currently the resistance is varied from 47k to 100k to infinity (switch at center).
2) Consider removing the 100k resistor, and replacing the switch with a 500K log or audio pot (A-taper).  At minimum, you have just 47k--same as before.  At center, you have 47k+50k which is essentially 100k--same as before again.  At max rotation you have 47k+500k, which for practical purposes is almost identical to the vibrato mode.  There you have same three modes, continuously variable with a single pot.

Or, letting my mind fly freely, two of them fed by a low pass and a high pass filter respectively and recombined at the output, "leslie in a box"...
Yes, two tri-vibe boards could be used as building blocks for a more accurate leslie simulation.  You will need an additional daughterboard with four opamps as follows:
1) Input buffer or TS-style stage set for low gain and soft clipping
2) 800 Hz 2nd order lowpass filter (negative gain implementation)
3) 800 Hz 2nd order hipass filter (positive gain implementation)
4) Two input adder

The two crossover filters need to have opposite polarities so when they are added phase relationships do not cancel the midrange frequencies (this is from crossover theory).  Another possibility is to implement the 4th opamp as a differential opamp to do the subtraction.

The hipass filter feeds a tri-vibe set for whirl mode (rotating tweeters do have some amplitude variation as well).  The lowpass filter feeds the second tri-vibe set for vibrato mode (the low frequency rotor produces almost no amplitude modulation).  Both LFOs are adjusted close to each other but not identical.

Now the cherry for the cake would be controlling the LFOs to ramp up and down.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Brymus on December 30, 2009, 11:38:57 PM
This Leslie in a box sounds really really cool !!!!!
I have a VSTi that does a good Leslie sim but a pedal would allow for "live" use.
What about an option that would allow it to be sent to two amps instead of being re-combined?
Now that would be SIC in a club situation.

Thnx for the cool design ROG
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on December 31, 2009, 01:03:45 AM
Thanks for another fantastic proyect, guys, I'm really impressed with this one.

Gracias por la ayuda con las modificaciones, compatriota ;)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 31, 2009, 04:13:25 AM
1) Currently the resistance is varied from 47k to 100k to infinity (switch at center).
2) Consider removing the 100k resistor, and replacing the switch with a 500K log or audio pot (A-taper).  At minimum, you have just 47k--same as before.  At center, you have 47k+50k which is essentially 100k--same as before again.  At max rotation you have 47k+500k, which for practical purposes is almost identical to the vibrato mode.  There you have same three modes, continuously variable with a single pot.

I did that and it works OK although there's not much "action" in the range from twirl" to "Vibe".

Here's a picture of my PCB in a 1590B:
The extra wire on the PCB is not necessary in the final version of the PCB
(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20in%20Enclosure.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 31, 2009, 05:37:11 AM
i wish i could work with PCB
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on December 31, 2009, 07:04:10 AM
1) Currently the resistance is varied from 47k to 100k to infinity (switch at center).
2) Consider removing the 100k resistor, and replacing the switch with a 500K log or audio pot (A-taper).  At minimum, you have just 47k--same as before.  At center, you have 47k+50k which is essentially 100k--same as before again.  At max rotation you have 47k+500k, which for practical purposes is almost identical to the vibrato mode.  There you have same three modes, continuously variable with a single pot.

I did that and it works OK although there's not much "action" in the range from twirl" to "Vibe".
That could happen if you are using a LIN pot instead of a LOG pot, or if you have the LOG pot wired backwards.  If you want to further check this, you should make sure that with the pot at the center the total resistance (47k + pot resistance) is close to 100k.

By the way, your build looks really nice, especially considering the compactness of the the PCB to fit a 1590B box.  I guess the size of this circuit is as much as you can pack in such space without going to surface mount devices.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on December 31, 2009, 07:29:02 AM
Quote
That could happen if you are using a LIN pot instead of a LOG pot, or if you have the LOG pot wired backwards.

I did use a 500k LIN pot indeed, because I did not have a LOG type, so it's a long travel from 50k to 500k and with a LIN pot nothing much interesting happens in between.
The most interesting sounds are really in the 47k, 100k and 500k positions, and I will eventually go for the 3 position switch to keep it a true "Tri-Vibe".

Quote
I guess the size of this circuit is as much as you can pack in such space without going to surface mount devices.

Yes, for me it probably is.
I made a PCB with the same size for Mark Hammer's "The Woody" and with 2 Quad opamps and quite a lot of caps and resistors that also was a tight fit,
but I see it as a challenge to make rather big circuits fit in a 1590B enclosure.



Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on December 31, 2009, 05:37:27 PM
No Fender amp has pitch vibrato though.  I think he's just using two Fender amps, one calls it Tremolo, one calls it Vibrato.  Same Volume-WaVeRiNg effect.


No...
Some of the "brownface" fender amps use pitch based vibrato.
There is a project or two of RG's at GEOfex that simulates this.


John

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on December 31, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
Andre, nice work. So, anybody going to do a run of boards? John?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 31, 2009, 09:13:35 PM
I just looked at the two vibrato circuits at geofex. Has anyone tried them?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: svstee on December 31, 2009, 09:23:07 PM
I'm in the process of building the Vibro-Matic III from the Stompbox Cookbook, and the circuit looks fairly similar to this Tri-Vibe. I listened to the soundclips and they sound different, but not radically so. Do you think it would be worth it to build a Tri-Vibe in addition to the Vibro-Matic III? I have around 7 overdrives on my board, so 2 different vibratos wouldn't be pushing it, right?  ;)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 31, 2009, 09:38:02 PM
7 overdrives jesus
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: svstee on December 31, 2009, 09:57:12 PM
Sadly, that's not a joke. 3 are TS derived too...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on December 31, 2009, 10:44:36 PM
I just looked at the two vibrato circuits at geofex. Has anyone tried them?

There are two in mark m's gallery here.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/MarkMs-Gallery/album15/album76/Vibrato+LAYOUT.png.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/MarkMs-Gallery/album15/album76/Vibrato+LAYOUT.png.html)
Search for brown face vibrato or vibratone and you will get a bunch of info.
There is an error in the layout of the V2 vibrotone(with the level
boost) so if you make that you should trace the layout vs the schematic
and adjust for it.
The first version is fine I think.

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on January 02, 2010, 01:22:51 AM
never use PCB. I just look at the schematic, and usually start at the input. I know I need better planning, but I do this just for myself, mostly
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on January 02, 2010, 02:15:30 PM
Very appreciative to Andre and all - but does anyone know if ROG is working on a PCB as well ?

Thanks, Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ed G. on January 02, 2010, 02:39:44 PM
The soundclips are very, very impressive. If anyone records any more, I'd like to hear a Leslie approximation at high speed.
I've got an empty wah shell that I think would be perfect for this.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 02, 2010, 02:52:02 PM


Very appreciative to Andre and all - but does anyone know if ROG is working on a PCB as well ?



PCB coming up.
Sorry for the wait guys.
Having a two year old in your care
makes for slow work...

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 02, 2010, 05:26:08 PM


Very appreciative to Andre and all - but does anyone know if ROG is working on a PCB as well ?



PCB coming up.
Sorry for the wait guys.
Having a two year old in your care
makes for slow work...

John
Thanks, sorry I missed your original post. Are you using Andre's layout or making a new one?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 02, 2010, 07:18:29 PM
Well...I had done my own layout but I wasn't happy with it and I boxed myself in in a couple places.
I redrew it with Andre's layout as the main framework, then moved some things around.
It's almost finished...Stay tuned.

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 03, 2010, 05:25:38 AM
Check out my finished Tri-Vibe:
(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20Finished.jpg)

Not too happy about the hole for the LED, but for the rest I like it a lot.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on January 03, 2010, 05:30:54 AM
looks spectacular
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 03, 2010, 07:49:53 AM
Check out my finished Tri-Vibe:
(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20Finished.jpg)

Not too happy about the hole for the LED, but for the rest I like it a lot.


Very nice work!  Thanks for sharing it!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on January 03, 2010, 07:56:09 AM
Looks great!
Did you use a printed transparent sheet on the enclosure?

Andre, do you take orders for a PCB?  ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 03, 2010, 08:14:20 AM
Very Fenderish esthetic--Leo would be proud.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 03, 2010, 08:32:09 AM
Hey Andre,

having trouble here with your posted layout. The signal passes the circuit unmodulated though checking the voltage tells me that the lfo is clearly working. I have to double check my build and your layout w :(

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 03, 2010, 08:53:29 AM
looks spectacular

Thanks

Very nice work!  Thanks for sharing it!

Thanks, and thank you and Sebastian for this great circuit.

Looks great!
Did you use a printed transparent sheet on the enclosure?

Andre, do you take orders for a PCB?  ;D


Thanks.
I use sticky transparent photopaper with 3 layers of clearcoat.

And yes I do take orders for a PCB.

Very Fenderish esthetic--Leo would be proud.

In fact I was looking for the original Univibe font and found out it was exactly the same font Fender uses.
It's called "Brushed Script".


Hey Andre,

having trouble here with your posted layout. The signal passes the circuit unmodulated though checking the voltage tells me that the lfo is clearly working. I have to double check my build and your layout w :(

Regards
Helge

That's a pity.
I can measure some voltages for you if you want.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 03, 2010, 08:57:31 AM
Hi Andre,

would be very kind of you if you could do that. New day, fresh eyes, must be possible to get it to work.:)

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on January 03, 2010, 10:54:14 AM
@André: Can you perhaps put your graphics design online? It looks great and I'd like to use it in mine if you don't mind. Thanks!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 03, 2010, 12:29:45 PM
Hi André,

I measured my voltages I got on the ICs. Maybe someone else would like to look over it.:)
Here's the link:    http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/displayimage.php?pos=-2235
Thanks in advance!

Cheers
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 03, 2010, 01:20:17 PM
Hi André,

I measured my voltages I got on the ICs. Maybe someone else would like to look over it.:)
Here's the link:    http://forum.musikding.de/cpg/displayimage.php?pos=-2235
Thanks in advance!

Cheers
Helge

At first glance, pin 6 of the LM13700 has the voltage you'd want at pin 11 and vice versa.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 03, 2010, 01:27:11 PM
Wooops, thanks! I just mixed up left and right while writing it down.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 03, 2010, 01:48:10 PM
Your voltages are pretty much the same as the mine.

The voltage on both pins 1 and 16 of the LM13700 should also vary a little.
I measure about 1.24. ~ 1.37V

Could you please check that?

Btw. Is there any clean signal when the switch is in the center position?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 03, 2010, 01:53:06 PM
Also, check the Depth pot wiring.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 03, 2010, 02:59:53 PM
Check out my finished Tri-Vibe:
(http://andre58.50webs.com/pics/Tri-Vibe%20Finished.jpg)

Not too happy about the hole for the LED, but for the rest I like it a lot.

Really nice.  I like the B&W theme a lot.  May I suggest using a white LED?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 03, 2010, 03:24:34 PM
Really nice.  I like the B&W theme a lot.  May I suggest using a white LED?

That's a good suggestion, and if I put it in a cheap black LED holder, I can cover the rough edges of the hole at the same time.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 04, 2010, 06:29:54 AM
Your voltages are pretty much the same as the mine.

The voltage on both pins 1 and 16 of the LM13700 should also vary a little.
I measure about 1.24. ~ 1.37V

Could you please check that?

Btw. Is there any clean signal when the switch is in the center position?

Hi André,

yes to both. Still couldn't figure out the mistake.

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 04, 2010, 06:42:48 AM
Hi to everybody envolved here,

shame on me! It was a bad speed pot!!! Damn it! I'm sorry to taken your time for such a stupid easy fix.:(

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 04, 2010, 06:59:56 AM
Hi to everybody envolved here,

shame on me! It was a bad speed pot!!! Damn it! I'm sorry to taken your time for such a stupid easy fix.:(

Regards
Helge

No problem.
I'm glad it's OK now.

Do you like it?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on January 04, 2010, 07:10:20 AM
Hi,

yeah, I like it. It seems to close a gap I always had as I'm using a cheap Biyang MXR Phase 100 clone which is perfect for slow and deep phaser settings (have a listen to some of the Fu Manchu tracks) but sounds a bit crappy at high speed settings. The Phase 90 clone I have does that fast settings better but tends to distort with my pickups which always bothered me pretty much. The Tri Vibe fits perfectly into this fast speed gap. Cool!
Thank you and the guys of ROG - another fine piece of art (I have a ROG Thor on me pedalboard which will never leave me -tried so many ODs but nothing comes close to it thogh if have to say the MI Audio Crunch Box comes close to it but is even better as used as a boost for it.)

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on January 04, 2010, 01:42:09 PM
Very nice

Expect a vero layout shortly :)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: svstee on January 05, 2010, 12:46:29 AM
Very nice

Expect a vero layout shortly :)


YAY!  ;D ;D ;D

You win, sir.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 05, 2010, 01:20:11 PM
A perfboard layout is now available for the Tri-Vibe: http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Stompin Tom on January 05, 2010, 01:21:41 PM
A perfboard layout is now available for the Tri-Vibe: http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html

Nice! Thanks!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 05, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
Very nice. A bit daunting for perf, but very nice just the same. I've no doubt Rick Holt will do it. :)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on January 05, 2010, 05:11:45 PM
Very nice. A bit daunting for perf, but very nice just the same. I've no doubt Rick Holt will do it. :)

That perf could quite easily be converted to PCB..... ;D

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: WhenBoredomPeaks on January 05, 2010, 05:15:49 PM
Very nice

Expect a vero layout shortly :)


mmm, vero, i like it much more than perf.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: compuwade on January 05, 2010, 07:04:31 PM
Very very nice project. Great sound and probably one of the best ROG projects yet!! I can't wait to give this a try.

Thanks for all your hard work!!

-Wade
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on January 06, 2010, 03:11:54 PM
I've done a vero layout, it's here if anyone's interested.

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

I haven't built it yet so it's unverified but I've double checked it and I don't think there's any errors. I used a TL064 instead of a pair of TL062s because it made the layout a bit simpler, note that it's upside down compared to the other ICs. The layout might be a bit tight in places especially round the 10uF capacitors in the LFO, but the rest of it should be OK so long as you use sensible sized caps.
If I get time I'll try and build it at the weekend.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: svstee on January 06, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
If you think it look good I'll try it this afternoon.

Thanks for the vero!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 06, 2010, 05:44:01 PM
I breadboarded this puppy with an LM13700 yesterday. It worked great for a couple of minutes, once I managed to keep all the leads from touching.  :P It was definitely the most complicated thing I have attempted to breadboard. If I do something like that again I will put shrink wrap on any of the leads that risk crossing.

I did wind up replacing the TL072 with an NE5532. I don't know why, but making that change has made both this circuit and a Nurse Quacky I built last week work much better. Anyone have a theory?

Anyway, since I really liked what I heard while it was working, and I don't have a true vibrato circuit in my collection, I started doing the perf layout they recently posted this morning. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I finish. For the time being I am doing my best to emulate our buddy Freq Central...Uh, it just isn't coming out as neat as his work. But I am checking as I go, and so far so good.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 07, 2010, 07:04:35 AM
I did wind up replacing the TL072 with an NE5532. I don't know why, but making that change has made both this circuit and a Nurse Quacky I built last week work much better. Anyone have a theory?
Was there something buffering your input?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 07, 2010, 03:57:18 PM
Nope. No buffer. Guitar to circuit to bench amp. Does the NE5532 work better with buffered inputs?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 07, 2010, 07:20:45 PM
Generally, yes. It has a low input impedance, and it loses its noise advantage when fed a high impedance signal. But, you know, lo-Z-in can sometimes be a good thing, in terms of taming harshness, etc. So if the 072 was too right or something was getting saturated in the circuit with it, the 5532 may be just the ticket. Did you try any other BJT-input opamps?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 07, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
To tell the truth, breadboarding this created such a rats nest that my issues may have been caused more by that than the op amp. I am about 1/2 through perfing it up, and I am using sockets for the op amps, so I will be able to experiment more scientifically in a few days. I will post my results once I have them. I didn't try any other op amps, but I will once I have it put together, just out of curiosity.

But, it was a night and day difference with my Nurse Quacky. With the TL072 there was no envelope sweep at all. With the NE5532, it has a sweet resonant sweep. I got the idea from another post on here, so I am not alone in having that experience. I was surprised since I have read claims that the op amp doesn't make that much of a difference, but in certain circuits it definitely does.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: maximee on January 08, 2010, 07:36:47 PM
i'm almost done with the build on perf, but i'm still waiting for some parts in the mail to be able to finish it. man, that was a pain to do on perf. i'll post pictures as soon as i have it working :)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on January 08, 2010, 07:43:29 PM
Yes ive noticed op amps make certain circuits actually work, when some that should operate fine, don't. In Dr. Quack, the NE5532 did sound much different. However, in my MXR noise gate, it wouldn't work with a NE5532, any that I tried. Only with a TL072.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 08, 2010, 08:12:10 PM
Maximee,

No kidding. I've been at it for a few hours, and I'm barely 1/2 done. And I am a pretty capable perf dude. But, since it is quite complicated, I am taking my time and doing continuity testing as I go to try to make sure I don't screw anything up. (Of course that would never happen!) Hopefully I'll have a working circuit by the end of the weekend. And hopefully you will as well once you get the parts.

El Heisendberg,

Interesting. I am definitely going to make sure I try several op amps with any build I am having problems trouble shooting. Luckily I have a little stock pile of the usual suspects now...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: maximee on January 09, 2010, 09:23:47 AM
To get this far took me about 6 hours. I also triple check every connection cause this beast is going to be a pain to debug.
That's how it's looking so far. It's my 3rd perf build, so let's hope it all works out :)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3613780/090120101611.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3613780/090120101614.jpg)


I don't know how you guys do it, but during my last build (professor tweed) i found it really helpful to have the layout loaded in photoshop and draw along while soldering. that way i have 2 or 3 layers on top of the layout where i draw in missing parts, substituted values or areas where there may be a problem later. really helpful to not get lost!

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3613780/Bild%201.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: rocklander on January 10, 2010, 02:28:28 AM
Here's my PCB design and partslayout for the runoffgroove Tri-Vibe:

(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/andre_schaap/Tri-VibePCBLayout.jpg)
Hi there. just etched this, and was starting to populate it when I noticed what I think are indescrepencies between the layout and the schem.
(u4=lm13600)
in the layout on u4 pin 5 goes to a 1n5F cap, but in the schem it's pin 8 that goes to the 1n5F
in the layout on u4 pin 8 goes to a 1uF cap, but in the schem it's pin 9 that goes to the 1uF
in the layout on u4 pins 10+12 go to a 22nF cap, but in the schem it's pins 5+7 that go to the 1uF


does it matter that they're different and has the layout been verified and tried? TIA
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 10, 2010, 04:54:15 AM
Because of PCB design reasons I changed the order of the 2 OTA's in the LM13600.
The layout has been verified by me and at least one other forum member.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: rocklander on January 10, 2010, 04:58:10 AM
Because of PCB design reasons I changed the order of the 2 OTA's in the LM13600.
The layout has been verified by me and at least one other forum member.

awesome.. I hoped it was the case (I haven't a real clue what I'm doing, just soldering by numbers ;-).
thanks for that  will continue as per the layout. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Jered on January 11, 2010, 09:17:57 AM
  Finished and boxed up my Tri Vibe last night using Andre's layout. Sounds great! Thanks ROG/Andre. Very well thought out. With no need to adjust/tweek voltages to get it working properly makes this thing a breeze.
  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: rocklander on January 12, 2010, 05:16:53 AM
+1. just finished populating mine with equivalent parts (lm324 and lm358) and it's awesome!
just waiting for parts (right opamps and pot) and I'll houe htis up to take pride of place on my board. nice stuff ROG/Andre! :icon_cool:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on January 12, 2010, 07:22:13 AM
But, it was a night and day difference with my Nurse Quacky. With the TL072 there was no envelope sweep at all. With the NE5532, it has a sweet resonant sweep. I got the idea from another post on here, so I am not alone in having that experience. I was surprised since I have read claims that the op amp doesn't make that much of a difference, but in certain circuits it definitely does.
I'm not looking at the schematic of either effect right now (working, so I might as soon open porn as a schematic...), but the other big difference between a TL072 and an NE5532 besides input-Z and noise (sometimes) is z-out. The 5532 has a very low z-out, so much so that it can be used as an audio amp to drive, say, headphones. Most opamps can't even think of doing that. So, depending on what the load is that they are driving, that may be the difference in certain effects. The claims that you read concerning opamps not making much difference were probably about distortion effects, where the effect may be a function pretty much entirely of the circuit design, e.g. clipping diodes and e.q. elements, and the the opamp is pretty much there just to amplify within a very restricted part of its frequency and gain ranges, and where the in/out functions may be handled by other devices, such as the buffers in a Tubescreamer. But I doubt anyone with a clue would say that as a blanket statement. 
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 12, 2010, 12:36:55 PM
Alright, scratch the previous info. I finally finished perfing this guy up, and I am having some strange issues. But, it is working best with the TL062's and the TL072 as spec'ed by ROG. But, it is doing some strange things. Instead of a nice steady pulse, I get a volume dip when I first hit the strings, then an uneven and very light vibrato effect. The only things I did differently are I used an LM1700 instead of the LM1600, I used a film cap for one of the 1uF caps since it is shown that way in the schematic, but not on the perf layout, and I figured a big fatty would add to the mojo, and I had to double up 2 electro caps to get the bidirectional one. It is shown that way in the schematic, but not on the perf layout. Oh, and I used a B type rate pot.

I did check the connections twice, and I am "pretty" confident I built it right. Does anybody have any ideas what to try? Should I try to get my hands on an LM1600?

Thanks!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 13, 2010, 01:01:03 PM
Hi guys,

Bump de Bump, Bump...I did some more tests with my build, and would like to report my results. Hopefully someone can give me a tip on where to start looking based on these.

First the symptoms:

I am getting a vibe-ish effect on the whirl and swirl settings. It is uneven in that it has one pulse that is weak and another that is strong. This repeats. There is also a very fast transition between more of a tremelo effect and no effect at all when I adjust the depth knob. It is almost like there should be some clean signal mixed in with effected signal, but the clean is either missing or on full depending on the depth pot.

In the vibe mode I get almost no sound at all. If I crank the depth, I get a faint clicky little sound, but almost nothing.

Here are my #’s:

Voltages:

Filtered/regulated wall wart: 9.29v

But first odd thing, the 9.29v is without being connected to the circuit. Once it is connected it drops to 8.88v. Then the pin 8’s on the IC’s are only getting 5.8-ish volts. Is that normal?

Anyway:

IC1
Pin 1 2.89v
Pin 2 2.9v
Pin 3 2.89v
Pin 4 7mv
Pin 5 2.9v
Pin 6 2.9v
Pin 7 2.3v (alternates a bit)
Pin 8 5.84v

IC2
Pin 1 2.9v (alternates a bit)
Pin 2 2.9v
Pin 3 2.9v (alternates a bit)
Pin 4 7mv
Pin 5 2.9v
Pin 6 2.9v
Pin 7 2.9v (alternates a bit)
Pin 8 5.83v

IC3
Pin 1 2.9v
Pin 2 3.3v (alternates a bit)
Pin 3 2.7v
Pin 4 7mv
Pin 5 2.9v
Pin 6 2.9v
Pin 7 2.9v (alternates a bit)
Pin 8 5.82v

IC4
Pin 1 1v
Pin 2 3.5v 
Pin 3 3v
Pin 4 2.97v
Pin 5 1.37v
Pin 6 8mv
Pin 7 1.37
Pin 8 8mv
Pin 9 3.8v
Pin 10 4.5v  (alternates a bit)
Pin 11 5.8v  (alternates a bit)
Pin 12 4.5v (alternates a bit)
Pin 13 2.99v
Pin 14 3v
Pin 15 3.5v
Pin 16 1v

Thanks for any help you can offer!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: frequencycentral on January 13, 2010, 01:26:31 PM
Filtered/regulated wall wart: 9.29v

But first odd thing, the 9.29v is without being connected to the circuit. Once it is connected it drops to 8.88v. Then the pin 8’s on the IC’s are only getting 5.8-ish volts. Is that normal?

That can't be right. Something is dragging your +ve down. Check out the schematic, there's a 22R resistor bottom left, where power enters the board, if you're getting 8.88v one side of it and 5.8v the other side you must have a short somewhere I would have thought. Are you sure your 22R is 22R?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 13, 2010, 01:34:36 PM
Hmmm. Thanks Rick. I didn't like the looks of that either...

I do believe the resistor is correct, although I will quadruple check it to be sure. I bet you're right that there is a short. I'll poke around again and see if I can find it. (I already have more than once, but I want this thing to work, so I am willing to give it another go around.)

Anybody else?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 13, 2010, 03:19:09 PM
Rick is correct, +V is low.  Also, check around pin 8 of U4.  That should be close to the same voltage as pin 9, both of which should be close to Vref (4.5v).
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 13, 2010, 03:52:13 PM
Thanks B.

Interesting about the #8 pin. It looks like mine is connected to ground somehow. Wow, there must be some really obvious screw up and hopefully knowing about pin #8 will help me find it.

Thanks 1,000,000!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: trjones1 on January 13, 2010, 08:40:08 PM
Ok, this may be a stupid/basic/pointless question, but is there any reason I can't split up the op amps in the tri-vibe.  I.e. use one dual opamp for U2a and U3a and another for U2b and U3b?  I'm working on a vero layout and it would just work out better this way.  If I can do this, is there any reason I couldn't add U1 into the mix, since it's in the audio path?  Thanks.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 13, 2010, 08:55:32 PM
An official PCB layout, created by John Lyons, has been added to the Tri-Vibe project: http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html

Please note that the schematic (and perfboard layout as well) has been updated.  The input and output caps of the mixing stage (U1b) were corrected.  The 1uF nonpolarized cap is now 220n and the notation of the output cap polarity was backwards.  Apologies for this oversight.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 13, 2010, 09:02:27 PM
Ok, this may be a stupid/basic/pointless question, but is there any reason I can't split up the op amps in the tri-vibe.  I.e. use one dual opamp for U2a and U3a and another for U2b and U3b?  I'm working on a vero layout and it would just work out better this way.  If I can do this, is there any reason I couldn't add U1 into the mix, since it's in the audio path?  Thanks.

The two opamps forming the LFO should correspond to the same IC, like U2a and U2b.

Quote
...is there any reason I couldn't add U1 into the mix, since it's in the audio path?  Thanks.

I'm not entirely certain of what you're asking, but the audio stages should be kept separate from the LFO stages.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 14, 2010, 05:27:36 AM
An official PCB layout, created by John Lyons, has been added to the Tri-Vibe project: http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html

Please note that the schematic (and perfboard layout as well) has been updated.  The input and output caps of the mixing stage (U1b) were corrected.  The 1uF nonpolarized cap is now 220n and the notation of the output cap polarity was backwards.  Apologies for this oversight.

I believe to see a vague resemblance between my original layout and "John Lyons" layout.  ???

(http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/andre_schaap/Tri-VibeComparison.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: ~arph on January 14, 2010, 07:18:22 AM
 ;D

Yeah it'd be nice if he'd credited you.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on January 14, 2010, 07:55:52 AM
Yeah i'd be nice if he'd credited you.
+1
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 14, 2010, 10:53:40 AM
Andre
You are correct. I meant to credit you.
I worked on an initial layout for hours
but cornered myself in in a couple places
so I scrapped it...
I used your layout and moved a few things around
to fit with my larger traces and pads etc.
I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes...:)

I'll put your name on the layout.

John

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 14, 2010, 12:27:16 PM
O.K. I got it to work. It wasn’t instant gratification, though.  :icon_confused:

Last night I checked around pin #8 on IC4. Lo and behold I had connected it to ground. I disconnected and was hoping to have a working circuit, but no luck. The LFO no longer pulsed. I knew not only from the sound, but also because I have a rate LED on it. So, I got a little discouraged and went to bed. Around 3:00AM I woke up thinking, “That’s right, I had connected pin 8 to ground because the LFO only worked that way.” But obviously it didn’t do the circuit any good…Then I remembered that I got the LFO to work on the breadboard by replacing IC3 with a NE5532. So, this morning I replaced IC3 again, and I have a wonderful sounding circuit, especially when I run it at 12v like I normally do.

That sine wave LFO is sweeeeet. And I like the swirl and whirl modes a lot!

So Thanks B and Rick. For the circuit and the help!

My last 2 circuits, this one and Nurse Quacky, will only work with NE5532's. I don't know what to make of it, but I will keep it in mind!

But now I read my mojo cap is too big? I think I might just leave well enough alone...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 14, 2010, 01:40:35 PM
O.K. I got it to work. It wasn’t instant gratification, though.  :icon_confused: ... So Thanks B and Rick. For the circuit and the help!

I'm happy to hear that your build is now working.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 14, 2010, 01:46:35 PM
Quote
I'm happy to hear that your build is now working.

Me too!

Out of curiousity, does the 1uF to 220nF change to the output cap have an effect on the frequency range of this guy? Why did you make that change?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 14, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
The 220nF/47k pair has a low frequency corner of 16 Hz, so it is more than adequate for guitar and bass signals.  For those who already built the circuit using 1uF there is no need to change the capacitor to 220nF.

Initially, the circuit was breadboarded with 1uF for availability, however 1uF caps are generally larger and not in everyone's parts bin, so it makes sense to reduce its value as it still does its job properly.  Coincidentally, the input stage has a 10nF/1M pair which also has a 16 Hz low frequency corner.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 17, 2010, 12:53:51 PM
Hi!
I've just finished building Tri-Vibe using layout from ROG. It works, but with some issues. First of all, I hear strong LFO ticking when Depth pot is turned to maximum or somewhere nearby. Any idea what may be the cause? Second thing - Swirl and Whirl settings causes circuit to work rather like tremolo than anything else. But it's not that important, I can live with it. But the ticking is ruining this circuit for me. I'm using LM13600N chip, TL062's and TL072.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on January 17, 2010, 03:02:57 PM
Hi ROG

Thank's for a really terrific circuit.

Q: Is there any reason why I cant use a normal voltage divider Rx/Rx+C for Vref instead of U2a setup. The reason is that I'm, as usual, trying to get this one to fit in a 1950A box and all "cut corners" when creating the PCB layout is welcome.

I plan to use 0one quad OP Amp for the LFO and a singel for the audio part. One reason I don't want to use the U2a is that I don't want to mix the LFO +V power rail with Vref to eliminate ticking etc. and to cut the legs under U2a to ease trace routing. 
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 18, 2010, 07:42:40 AM
Hi ROG

Thank's for a really terrific circuit.

Q: Is there any reason why I cant use a normal voltage divider Rx/Rx+C for Vref instead of U2a setup. The reason is that I'm, as usual, trying to get this one to fit in a 1950A box and all "cut corners" when creating the PCB layout is welcome.

I plan to use 0one quad OP Amp for the LFO and a singel for the audio part. One reason I don't want to use the U2a is that I don't want to mix the LFO +V power rail with Vref to eliminate ticking etc. and to cut the legs under U2a to ease trace routing.  
Unfortunately the active Vref is there for a reason: the LM13600 with its 470R biasing resistors and the 3k9 diode resistors do require a solid reference voltage since they provide some current that must be dealt with.  When using a 10k+10k resistive divider I recall the reference voltage was raised above 4.5V.  You could either reduce the divider resistors and eventually change the value in one of them so as to keep Vref at 4.5V, but this is something not recommended as it will increase current consumption and won't be as stable.  If Vref is away from 4.5V the dynamic range will suffer and sound might degrade.  Take notice that even if you could do without an active Vref, there is no other opamp you could omit in there, so you would still end with a spare opamp.

If I had the "must" to go into such a small enclosure, I'd do the following:

1) use SMD versions of the opamps and LM13600
2) use 1/8 watt resistors and as small capacitors as I could get (non-SMD)
3) Use a dual layer PCB

This is perfectly possible using a normal soldering iron, however it might become more expensive in terms of the bill of materials.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 18, 2010, 07:57:05 AM
Hi!
I've just finished building Tri-Vibe using layout from ROG. It works, but with some issues. First of all, I hear strong LFO ticking when Depth pot is turned to maximum or somewhere nearby. Any idea what may be the cause? Second thing - Swirl and Whirl settings causes circuit to work rather like tremolo than anything else. But it's not that important, I can live with it. But the ticking is ruining this circuit for me. I'm using LM13600N chip, TL062's and TL072.
The LFO in this circuit does not tick if properly built.  A 10n+100k couple around pins 1 and 2 of U3a prevent ticking by reducing the slew rate during transitions.  As you report the circuit is actually ticking and two modes are not working as expected, it is clear that there is something wrong with your build.  I suggest you do a thorough revision (once again) looking for shorts, wrong connections, wrong part values, etc. and post the voltages on every pin.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 18, 2010, 12:43:07 PM
Just some more info based on what I discovered this weekend.

I plugged my Tri-Verb build into a Thor pedal to hear what it would sound like amped. I noticed a "fitzy" noise, especially in the swirl mode that I couldn't get to go away. I decided to see if changing the 1uF cap to a 220nF per the updated docs would help to filter it out. It did. It sounds much better with the 220nF. I guess there was some high frequency noise that needed to be filtered out.

Like this the Thor/Tri-Vibe combo is a thing of beauty. ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 18, 2010, 02:14:53 PM
Hi!
I've just finished building Tri-Vibe using layout from ROG. It works, but with some issues. First of all, I hear strong LFO ticking when Depth pot is turned to maximum or somewhere nearby. Any idea what may be the cause? Second thing - Swirl and Whirl settings causes circuit to work rather like tremolo than anything else. But it's not that important, I can live with it. But the ticking is ruining this circuit for me. I'm using LM13600N chip, TL062's and TL072.
The LFO in this circuit does not tick if properly built.  A 10n+100k couple around pins 1 and 2 of U3a prevent ticking by reducing the slew rate during transitions.  As you report the circuit is actually ticking and two modes are not working as expected, it is clear that there is something wrong with your build.  I suggest you do a thorough revision (once again) looking for shorts, wrong connections, wrong part values, etc. and post the voltages on every pin.
Thanks for your response. First of all, I forgot to thank you for this great circuit. Even in this half-baked state my Tri-Vibe sounds wonderful and retro - it almost made me cry:).
I've checked my components and wiring. It turned out, that problem with other modes than vibe was in bad cable on output (it distorted sound, so it was little choppy, it wasn't that obvious in vibe mode). Now it's fixed.
But LFO is still ticking. When I turn depth pot above 14 hour, it's noticeable. I've checked components and traces - everything looks OK. I also measured voltages - here they are:
IC1
pin 1 - 4,5v
pin 2 - 4,48v
pin 3 - 4,07v
pin 4 - 0v
pin 5 - 4,46v
pin 6 - 4,39v
pin 7 - 4,13v
pin 8 - 8,94v

IC2
pin 1 - 4,46v
pin 2 - 4,46v
pin 3 - 4,43v
pin 4 - 0v
pin 5 - 4,52v
pin 6 - 4,38v
pin 7 - 3,18v
pin 8 - 8,92v

IC3
pin 1 - 3,44-5.44v (slowly alternates)
pin 2 - 4,39v
pin 3 - 4,12-4,73v (slowly alternates)
pin 4 - 0v
pin 5 - 4,44v
pin 6 - 4,44v
pin 7 - 4,18-4,65v (slowly alternates)
pin 8 - 8,88v

IC4
pin 1 - 1,26v
pin 2 - 5,35v
pin 3 - 4,67v
pin 4 - 4,67v
pin 5 - 5,96v
pin 6 - 0v
pin 7 - 5,97v
pin 8 - 4,88v
pin 9 - 4,38v
pin 10 - 5,49v
pin 11 - 8,86v
pin 12 - 5,52v
pin 13 - 4,67v
pin 14 - 4,67v
pin 15 - 5,34v
pin 16 - 1,24v
The only thing that differs my build from layout is that I didn't have 3,9K resistors, so I used two 3,3K+68ohm pairs instead.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 18, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
salwa, your voltages look OK.  As I mentioned before, the ant-tick components are a 100k/10n pair around pins 1 and 2 of U3a.  Make sure the 100k resistor is actually 100k and not a smaller value (like 100 ohms), also verify that pin 2 is not shorted to Vref by mistake, and also check that the 10n capacitor between pins 1 and 2 is actually 10nF and not 10pF or so.  If in doubt, remove the capacitor and place another one (maybe even larger) and see if it makes a difference.  Same goes with the 100k resistor.  The values of these two parts are not critical, consider +/-50% variations are acceptable.

Also, which type of opamp are you using?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 18, 2010, 05:32:24 PM
salwa, your voltages look OK.  As I mentioned before, the ant-tick components are a 100k/10n pair around pins 1 and 2 of U3a.  Make sure the 100k resistor is actually 100k and not a smaller value (like 100 ohms), also verify that pin 2 is not shorted to Vref by mistake, and also check that the 10n capacitor between pins 1 and 2 is actually 10nF and not 10pF or so.  If in doubt, remove the capacitor and place another one (maybe even larger) and see if it makes a difference.  Same goes with the 100k resistor.  The values of these two parts are not critical, consider +/-50% variations are acceptable.

Also, which type of opamp are you using?
Thanks for fast reply. I've checked my board few times - nothing is shorted, values of components are OK. I substituted 10n with 15n and 100k resistor with 150K, but without luck - LFO is still ticking. I'm using TL062CP for U3. I've tried TL082, but nothing has changed.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 18, 2010, 05:48:09 PM
As I wrote above, the only way I could get the LFO working at all was to try an NE5532 for U3. If you can get your hands on one you might try it. It is a low noise chip so it might help. I didn't have the ticking, so that's the best I can offer... :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 18, 2010, 08:21:08 PM
As I wrote above, the only way I could get the LFO working at all was to try an NE5532 for U3. If you can get your hands on one you might try it. It is a low noise chip so it might help. I didn't have the ticking, so that's the best I can offer... :icon_neutral:
In my breadboard I have a TL062CP by Texas Instruments in place of U2 and U3.  Haven't experienced any problem here.  I don't see why it shouldn't work, since the TL062 is not being used close to or outside its limits in any way I can think.

I'd try replacing the pair of 10uF electros, and also make sure that they are actually with their polarities back-to-back as shown in the schem.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: svstee on January 18, 2010, 08:26:29 PM
Has anyone verified the Vero layout yet? I got distracted by other projects...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on January 18, 2010, 08:27:55 PM
I only mentioned the replacement for U3 because that worked for me. My build had no LFO with a TL062 for U3, either on the breadboard or on perf. Pop in a NE5532 and I get LFO.

I unfortunately don't know enough to explain it. But it did happen that way. I used a LM13700, instead of the LM13600, so I don't know if that changed anything.

I wish I did know enough to be more than a hack, but at least I got mine to work.  ;)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 19, 2010, 01:03:03 AM
I'm using non-polarised 4,7uF electro there. Maybe that's the source of ticking? I'll try to change it to pair of 10uFs.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on January 19, 2010, 06:58:52 AM
I'm using non-polarised 4,7uF electro there. Maybe that's the source of ticking? I'll try to change it to pair of 10uFs.
I referred to the change of cap mainly as an alternative to fix a non-working LFO.  For instance, a very leaky capacitor might need the additional output current that an NE5532 can provide.  Eventually a faulty cap could increase ticking, but I suspect the real problem lies in wrong connections or in the way the GND and VREF tracks are laid out.

Which layout are you using ?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 19, 2010, 11:42:26 AM
I'm using layout form runoffgroove.com. I've checked my traces once again, but couldn't find any shorts. Especially I'm sure, that pin 2 is not connected to pin 1 or ground. Maybe I should look into that capacitor.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 19, 2010, 01:43:03 PM
Circuit boards are for sale now via the link at ROG.
http://www.runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html (http://www.runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html)

Thanks to Andre for being very generous with his
layout and my redraw of it for the ROG page.
I have to get busy on mine now.

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on January 19, 2010, 03:52:37 PM
Hi
I have just finished a layout for the Tri-Vibe to fit in a 1590A box. It’s not the most perfect layout I have done. In fact it’s quite a mess with a lot of ugly solutions. But it was not that easy to fit every thing in. The layout is NOT verified yet. Feel free to use it if there is some one out there that is as stupid as I am and tryes to squeeze this one in to an all to small box. I have ordered a couple of LM13600 so I can build the more normal sized version as well as this design really looks like it’s going to be one off the classics and a “must build”.

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe.gif)
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe Project file.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe Project file.pdf)
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: salwa on January 20, 2010, 03:48:21 PM
I've tried different capacitors, but there was no change - LFO's still ticking.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: alparent on January 22, 2010, 01:37:03 PM
Just looked at John's layout ......... what's the font of the title?
Look great (the title and the layout)  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 22, 2010, 01:53:17 PM
It's called "Radio Dayz NF "
It's the Collins radio font from the 40's

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on January 29, 2010, 11:58:45 PM
Quick question - John.

As we're looking at your layout - are we looking at the bottom of the pots - or the top (for numbering purposes).

Thanks !

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 30, 2010, 12:15:55 AM
They are shown from the bottom.
As looking in to the enclosure.
Lugs down left to right: 3,2,1 (CW Wiper CCW)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: TamuT on January 31, 2010, 06:25:21 AM
Biggest thanks to runoffgroove and André for this nice project. Sounds really awesome...

Actually this was my first pcb & enclosure etch... worked alot better than I expected  ;D

(http://muusikoiden.net/dyn/users/69497.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Andre on January 31, 2010, 06:39:25 AM
Hi TamuT,

Welcome to the forum and glad you like it.
Love the etched enclosure.

I like my TriVibe a lot too.
Gigged with it last night and it worked great, both as phaser as well as vibrato.
With the Lovepedal Eternity in front of it I made some nice overdriven organ sounds with it.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: TamuT on January 31, 2010, 08:10:43 AM
Thanks Andre.

This pedal is the bomb! I also used it w/ my lovepedal Eternity clone last week in the studio. Sounded really good.

Made a little sound clip too... if someones interested (came out sounding like a Russian sad song or something) ::)

http://www.muziboo.com/TamuT/music/tri-vibe-sound-clip (http://www.muziboo.com/TamuT/music/tri-vibe-sound-clip)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on January 31, 2010, 09:43:08 AM
TamuT, your clip and build are great!  Thanks for sharing them with us.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on February 02, 2010, 01:42:26 PM
Nice builds by everyone and a great design.  Vibes can be pretty intimidating with the bulbs and LDRs and multitude of parts, but this one looks doable for a schlub like me.  I just ordered the parts from Small Bear and I'll be getting this one going soon.  Wish me luck.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jbgron on February 02, 2010, 04:50:19 PM
Is it possible to use TL084 instead of TL064?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on February 02, 2010, 08:47:45 PM
You can use the TL084 but probably you'll get some "ticking" in the signal due to the LFO. The TL064 is used because it is a low-current device. For the rest they are pin compatible (see datasheets). So if you don't have a TL064, just pop in a TL074 or TL084. It'll work and just see how much "LFO ticking" you'll get.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jbgron on February 02, 2010, 08:49:22 PM
Thanks flo, I'll give it a shot tonight.  I've ordered some TL064's but they wont be here for ~1 week.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on February 02, 2010, 11:23:10 PM
my Tri,

Props to Mr. Lyons for the direction on the font and for the layout:

(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/tri01.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/tri02.jpg)

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on February 03, 2010, 12:22:08 AM
my Tri,

Props to Mr. Lyons for the direction on the font and for the layout:

(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/tri01.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/tri02.jpg)

Dan
A really nice build. But Dan, isn't it too big? ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 03, 2010, 02:44:35 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on February 03, 2010, 12:42:58 PM
@danielzink, can you give us a look inside?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jetzster on February 03, 2010, 05:09:16 PM
Beautiful work,Dan! which label process is that?So Clean! :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Brymus on February 03, 2010, 07:40:35 PM
Yeah Dan thats really!! nice, love the clean look and chicken head knobs.The font you used is what sets it off IMO.
I like big boxes and I cannot lie,you other builders wont deny...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on February 04, 2010, 07:28:45 PM
Beautiful work,Dan! which label process is that?So Clean! :icon_biggrin:

White PPP box, Krylon glitter spray paint, full face waterslide, clear Krylon

Yeah Dan thats really!! nice, love the clean look and chicken head knobs.The font you used is what sets it off IMO.
I like big boxes and I cannot lie,you other builders wont deny...

Props again to big John for directing me on the font ! I really think it sets it off !


@danielzink, can you give us a look inside?

upskirt pics:

(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin1.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin2.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin3.jpg)

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Mann on February 05, 2010, 07:08:00 AM
Is this a working vero-layout:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: tol on February 07, 2010, 07:20:49 PM
hi! I built the Tri-Vibe with a Basic Audio PCB. I only had a TL074 but I don't hear any LFO ticking. I do notice the effect but mostly on fast settings.

Otherwise it's very subtle compared to the soundclips.

Has anyone built one with the Basic Audio Layout? I tried to make it sound less subtle by running it into a feedback looper pedal but it didn't help even on the phase setting. I verified the caps but haven't verified all the resistor values to make sure they're all in the right place. I was very careful with POT wiring and measured all component values before installing them. I even tested all the diodes.

Thanks!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 07, 2010, 10:57:05 PM

Has anyone built one with the Basic Audio Layout?

Scroll up two posts, that's the layout I posted  ;)

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Kitarist on February 09, 2010, 10:30:46 AM
Biggest thanks to runoffgroove and André for this nice project. Sounds really awesome...

Actually this was my first pcb & enclosure etch... worked alot better than I expected  ;D

(http://muusikoiden.net/dyn/users/69497.jpg)

Where did you get that kind of font?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gigimarga on February 10, 2010, 01:56:06 AM

Has anyone built one with the Basic Audio Layout?

Scroll up two posts, that's the layout I posted  ;)

John

I've just finished it tonight and it worked from the first try, but, as tol said above, it seems too subtle comparing with the soundclips (I've built it using TL072, TL084, LM13700 and a 5mm red LED).
Thx a lot to the people of runoffgroove and to John Lyons too for this very nice project :)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: TamuT on February 10, 2010, 07:48:13 AM

Where did you get that kind of font?

Just a copy - paste from vero layout image posted by Slacker on page 6.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on February 10, 2010, 11:52:24 AM
I can report that my build is also pretty subtle in the vibe mode at slow speeds. It is more intense at faster speeds.

But the swirl and whirl modes are deep enough at slow speeds... I like the character it has. Ole skool ;)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Kitarist on February 10, 2010, 01:05:50 PM
Beautiful work,Dan! which label process is that?So Clean! :icon_biggrin:

White PPP box, Krylon glitter spray paint, full face waterslide, clear Krylon

Yeah Dan thats really!! nice, love the clean look and chicken head knobs.The font you used is what sets it off IMO.
I like big boxes and I cannot lie,you other builders wont deny...

Props again to big John for directing me on the font ! I really think it sets it off !


@danielzink, can you give us a look inside?

upskirt pics:

(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin1.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin2.jpg)
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/danielzink/musical/triin3.jpg)

Dan

Will you please send me the template now?

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on February 10, 2010, 01:12:46 PM

Where did you get that kind of font?

Just a copy - paste from vero layout image posted by Slacker on page 6.

The font is called Bell Bottom, I got it from some free font website.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gigimarga on February 10, 2010, 01:13:32 PM
I can report that my build is also pretty subtle in the vibe mode at slow speeds. It is more intense at faster speeds.

But the swirl and whirl modes are deep enough at slow speeds... I like the character it has. Ole skool ;)

Same thing to me...it's possible to improve it a little?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on February 10, 2010, 01:14:52 PM
Is this a working vero-layout:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

I don't think anyone's built it yet, I haven't had time, but it should work fine.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on February 10, 2010, 02:15:09 PM
Quote
Same thing to me...it's possible to improve it a little?

I like it the way it is, so I haven't attempted to mod this. Maybe the ROG guys can come up with a suggestion?

But, the first thing I would try is to change the 4k7 resistor on pin #7 of U3. Try a little higher or lower and see if that changes anything. As you can see on the schematic, it is in series with the depth pot.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gigimarga on February 11, 2010, 12:35:37 AM
Quote
Same thing to me...it's possible to improve it a little?

I like it the way it is, so I haven't attempted to mod this. Maybe the ROG guys can come up with a suggestion?

But, the first thing I would try is to change the 4k7 resistor on pin #7 of U3. Try a little higher or lower and see if that changes anything. As you can see on the schematic, it is in series with the depth pot.

I've tried your suggestion, but didn't seemed to work: I replaced the 4k7 with a 4k7 pot and when the pot was at 0 I heard a very weak effect.

Thx a lot anyway !
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Kitarist on February 11, 2010, 07:05:52 AM
Also in the "official" layout it says the U4 opamps are switched wha does that mean? do i need to do anything?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gigimarga on February 11, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
My subs may affect the sound?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on February 11, 2010, 03:37:41 PM
Hi
Just managed to install and learn the basics in DIP Trace PCB layout making. I did some practice on my Tri Vibe layout for a 1950A box and here it is. No more strange wire jumpers etc.
I'll post the component layout and BOM as soon as i have learned to export the component values out from the dam application. Still a lot to learn. I hate to read software manuals. :icon_evil:
I can recommend it. It's free and easier to use than Eagle (IMO) and can export to all formats needed to order professionally made PCB:s
but I think you need to use the UV light fotoresist method to be able to get the level of resolution needed. I'll try this as Soon as I have time.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri%20Vibe/Tri_Vibe_Dip.JPG)
 
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 11, 2010, 04:33:26 PM
Also in the "official" layout it says the U4 opamps are switched wha does that mean? do i need to do anything?

It just means that the op amps don't follow the same "sides".
Or that instead of side a first, side B is first etc. Get it?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on February 11, 2010, 05:09:25 PM
Hi
Just managed to install and learn the basics in DIP Trace PCB layout making. I did some practice on my Tri Vibe layout for a 1950A box and here it is. No more strange wire jumpers etc.
I'll post the component layout and BOM as soon as i have learned to export the component values out from the dam application. Still a lot to learn. I hate to read software manuals. :icon_evil:
I can recommend it. It's free and easier to use than Eagle (IMO) and can export to all formats needed to order professionally made PCB:s
but I think you need to use the UV light fotoresist method to be able to get the level of resolution needed. I'll try this as Soon as I have time.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri%20Vibe/Tri_Vibe_Dip.JPG)
 


oooooooo.....I like it ! I'm too dense to figure out Eagle - maybe I'll give this a try.

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: RedSwede on February 12, 2010, 02:48:10 PM
Is this a working vero-layout:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1


Mine worked (thanks Slacker), except:
U3 (tl064) needed to be turned 180 degrees to get Vcc+ and Vcc- lined up correctly, though. (Apart from that, tl064 is symmetrically laid out.)

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on February 12, 2010, 04:22:41 PM
Cool glad it works, sorry about the error, hopefully you didn't damage anything before you spotted it. I've corrected the layout so the TL064 is now the right way round, not sure how I did it wrong it the first place  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on February 15, 2010, 06:56:17 PM
I just put mine together and it doesn't work (never does the first time  :icon_confused:) so I have some work to do.  My question now is this:  Should the 470uF cap be really HOT to the touch?  Should this tell me anything about my error?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 15, 2010, 08:18:12 PM
No, it should not even be warm. I think you have a short, cap in backwards etc etc.
Check all the power supply area parts.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on February 15, 2010, 10:04:52 PM
Well I checked the caps and they are all oriented correctly.  I do have a question about the diode hooked to the 33k and 3k3 resistors.  Which end of the diode goes to which resistor?  It's hard to tell from the shortened diode representation on the image.  And while I'm at it, the red LED shows a flat side.  I assume that is the anode.  Am I correct? And could having this in backwards do what I'm describing (heat)?

Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 16, 2010, 02:27:01 AM
There is a line representing the cathode of the diode in the PDF. You can enlarge it to see it better.
The LED flat is the cathode usually. Refer to the schematic and you can see what you need to know.
The red LED could cause the problem I think. It's not far from the battery voltage.
Check for solder bridges or hair shorts between pads with a magnifier though.

John
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on February 16, 2010, 10:16:29 AM
The LED is correct.  I'm getting the same reading on the board ground as my 9v battery so obviously I've screwed up somewhere major.  Dang!  

But it's not getting hot anymore.  And if I take the ground wire from the input jack off the board ground I get noisy but not vibe-y sound when the switch is on.  I don't know if I can call that progress but it's different.  Could I have burned the caps up while debugging with the meter?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 16, 2010, 10:58:21 AM
If you are getting 9v at the board ground then you have a short between ground and 9v which is likely the original problem.
Put out the 470cap and see if you still get the same reading.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: tol on February 17, 2010, 03:25:29 PM

Has anyone built one with the Basic Audio Layout?

Scroll up two posts, that's the layout I posted  ;)

John

I've just finished it tonight and it worked from the first try, but, as tol said above, it seems too subtle comparing with the soundclips (I've built it using TL072, TL084, LM13700 and a 5mm red LED).
Thx a lot to the people of runoffgroove and to John Lyons too for this very nice project :)


So is the tl064 or 13600 essential for the deeper sound? Mine sounds nowhere near as present as the ROG clips or TamuT's clips(very nice BTW).
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on February 19, 2010, 05:29:12 PM
Hi!

Could someone post a scaled version of Andre Schaaps layout, please? Maybe as a pdf?

regards, Immo
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: ayayay! on February 20, 2010, 09:42:27 AM
Question:  On U3b, the schem has 2 back to back 10uF Polarized.  The layout has a 4.7uF Bipolar.  Since two caps in series of the same value splits the difference, is that what I'm seeing?  In other words, they're both correct.  Correct?   ;D  (Forgive me if this has been asked, but I didn't see it)

Oh and I am SOOOOOoooo building this into wah shell.  (Sorry, didn't mean to get all Friends/Rachel sounding there.)

This is the coolest thing I've seen come down the pike in a while.  Thank you SO much ROG!!!!!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: maarten on February 20, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Yes, with 2 capacitors paralleled you will incraes their value, whilst in series the value will go down - just the opposite from what happens with resistors...
Maarten
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on February 24, 2010, 09:54:12 AM
Hi!

Could someone post a scaled version of Andre Schaaps layout, please? Maybe as a pdf?

regards, Immo

nobody? Or am I just to stupid to print it with the correct size?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on February 24, 2010, 11:00:26 AM
Merry Christmas!

www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf (http://www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on February 24, 2010, 11:43:18 AM
... Oh Mann Immo!  ??? Must be hard to use Inkscape "ctrl.+ shift + d" to make a 2,54mm grid to scale it hole to hole. And I'm pretty sure you know that trick form the other german speaking forum.  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on February 24, 2010, 08:02:49 PM
Thanx, John!

@fuzzy: überflüssig wie ein Kropf
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on February 25, 2010, 07:58:00 AM
Thanx, John!

@fuzzy: überflüssig wie ein Kropf

Wenn du damit deine Posts meinst, muss ich dir da recht geben.  ??? Statt gegenüber Newbies immer den großen Mann spielen, könntest du in solchen Sachen echt mal selber was auf die Beine stellen und nicht immer andere heranziehen. Das mit Inkscape zu machen dauert keine 5min. Aber bitte, nimm immer nur und gib nicht, so wird dir auch bald nicht mehr gegeben. :icon_frown:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on February 26, 2010, 01:44:23 PM
Hi
I’m starting to like DIP trace a lot as a tool for PCB layout.
I have now figured out how to export a BOM from DIP trace even if you only use the PCB layout program. From schematics it is obvious but from PCB layout its not. The secret is to export as “Pick and Place…” this generates a CVS file that is importable in to MS Excel. Or mount as a table in the drawing area.

I have also corrected some errors in the previous PCB but its not verified yet. I have a 13600 coming in next week together with some cupper to etch. I’ll get back when I have a result.
So if there is any body but me ho wants a small Tri Vibe, Here you go



(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/trivibe.JPG)

Project file
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri-Vibe Project file.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri-Vibe Project file.pdf)
PCB Without pour
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf)
PCB With Pour
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB pours.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB pours.pdf)


Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Greg M. on March 05, 2010, 02:16:45 PM
How could I add a three color LED to this which changes color with each position of the 3 way switch? 
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 09, 2010, 06:09:52 PM
Hi
Finally I have had time verified my layout. ( se post above) The ordered components have arrived and I have a working Tri Vibe. Thanks a mil ROG. I really love it. My favourite setting is “Swirl” (47K feedback). This is the first major layout I have made and with DIP trace and then built. All of my earlier Layout was made in DIY Layout creator. DIP Trace opens a lot of possibilities. The most important difference compared with DYI layout creator (and similar) is that the resolution can be much higher meaning tighter layouts are possible. The drawback is that you have to be very accurate in every step. I made this PCB 4 times before it was usable and I was satisfied. Mostly because I sourced the copper from a new dealer and the developing time in the UV light, that I am use to be 9minutes, now dropped to 3.5 min. Also be aware of solder bridges. They are extremely easy to do and miss. I checked every joint with magnifying goggles and still missed one.
Here are some pics of how it was made
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/1.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/2.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/3.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/4.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/5.jpg)

I discovered this solder bridge when editing this photo
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/6.jpg)

And a sound sample (first middle than 100K and finally 47K)

http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Trivibe.mp3
 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Trivibe.mp3)

Only boxing left  ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on March 09, 2010, 10:15:28 PM
Nice!
I assume that was with the depth at 100%

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 10, 2010, 12:02:16 AM
Nice!
I assume that was with the depth at 100%



Correct :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: aeonMg on March 10, 2010, 12:26:26 AM
Nice work! A Really good sounding pedal!

Solderman: I´ve allways really liked your layouts.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 10, 2010, 02:44:36 AM
Nice work! A Really good sounding pedal!

Solderman: I´ve allways really liked your layouts.
Thanks A lot.
The sound though is cred to ROG for designing it so well. Its quiet as a Norwegian blue parrot.  Not a LFO tick or squeal. ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on March 10, 2010, 06:03:07 AM
The sound though is cred to ROG for designing it so well. Its quiet as a Norwegian blue parrot.  Not a LFO tick or squeal. ;D

Now THAT is quiet!  Very nice work with your tidy and petite layout.  Impressive.  I'm very happy that you like the Tri-Vibe as much as I do.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Ben N on March 14, 2010, 02:51:11 PM
Its quiet as a Norwegian blue parrot.
Nice Monty Python reference! That'd make a great name for a noise gate.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 12:41:20 PM
Hi
I having trouble with low output gain. I’ve speed read trough the tread and found that some people have reported “subtle” effect but no one low volume when engaged. Besides the volume drop it works perfectly as in my sound sample in my earlier post.  

When I first made my Tri vibe and tested it I did as I usually do, that is connect the leads from the unboxed circuit to a test box that supplies power and In/Out jacks. That box is then connected directly to the amp so there will be nothing in between to interfere with the signal. At this stage the effect is always on so there is no bypass switch there. If the circuit behaves like it suppose to do I then solder in the stomp switch to the PCB as I always do. Then I box the thing. (I don’t want to de solder a stomp switch from the PCB from a bad circuit)

It was not until after I had boxed the Tri Vibe that I discovered that it had quite a large drop in volume when engaged. I have checked my layout and all the components on the build (not so easy after boxed up in those small boxes) without finding any errors.

I then discovered a thing by chance. The first thing the guitar signal hits in my setup is a switchbox. Beside switching and rerouting it also contains an On/Off switchable line buffer to eliminate the loss of tone trough all of my true by pass pedals witch sloppy cables between them. (It’s the first Op-amp buffers showed in the link below.)

http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm (http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm)

I discovered that when the line buffer was ON directly after the Tri Vibe the volume loss was gone and the engaged effect had unity gain. This goes for the rest of my pedals as well though a bit harder to tell because they add distortion or other effects to the tone. The common factor in all those cases was that the signal immediately after the Tri Vibe would hit a high impedance source. This will not be the fact connected directly to the Amp with a volume drop as a result.

My conclusion is that a low impedance source directly after the Tri Vibe will load down the output buffer stage U2b and the result will be a volume drop. A high impedance after the Tri Vibe will make U2b buffer the signal and will retain unity gain.

What do you think about suggestion to add the 2:nd JFET buffer type in the link above after U2b to let the signal always meet a high impedance?.

Am I way out here..... ??? (used TL062 for LFO and TL072 for audio and LM13600)


BTW here is the Tri Vibe in a small costume

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri%20Vibe/tv.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 20, 2010, 01:04:12 PM
Hi,
I've built this pedal, I'm using André's layout modified by Lyons.
I've had some trouble debugging this effect. This is what's happening:

When I turn on the pedal it doesn't nothing, the led I'm using for the LFO speed doesn't go off, it stays on. When I move the depth pot and change between the modes the sound gets affected for the filters but there's no oscillation or pitch change going on there.

The fact is that my LFO isn't working at all. I'm using a TL064CN for the LFO Opamp, a NE5532 at the buffer and a LM13700N from RS. I have triple checked all my build, my solderings are fine, no shorts, everything is fine there.  I have checked the voltages and they seem to be fine but doesn't oscillate where they should oscillate. I've changed the TL064 and the LM13700N for another one that was left from an older proyect that didn't work either (Rick Holtz's Multimode Envelope Filter). My guess at this moment is that the LM13700N could be damaged, but I'm not pretty sure if this have something to see with the LFO oscillation. I'm not using any other replacement than that.

Could you give me some tips of where should I check?

I'm a little frustrated with this building at this moment...

EDIT: Here are my readings:

Battery: 8.9v - It drops to 8.4v when connected to the pedal.

TL064CN:

1- 4v
2- 4v
3- 3.9v
4- 8.2v
5- 4.4v
6- 4.4v
7- 5.7v
8- 7.3v
9- 0v
10- 3.9v
11- 0v
12- 7.3v
13- 3.9v
14- 7.45v

LM13700N:


1- 1.2v
2- 4.8v
3- 4.15v
4- 4.1v
5- 5.1v
6- 0v
7- 5.1v
8- 3.9v
9- 4.25v
10- 5.45v
11- 8v
12- 5.4v
13- 4.1v
14- 4.1v
15- 4.8v
16- 1.2v
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on March 20, 2010, 03:32:26 PM
Interesting discussions.....

In light of Solderman's comments I tried an experiment......

Since mine has been built it has always resided at the beginning of the pedal chain - and yes - it is a bit less than unity gain and pretty subtle - I just figured I'd let it all shake out here and a fix would be posted at some time. I mean it works and all.......


After Soldermans comments - I hooked the pedal up directly to the amp - guitar/cord/trivibe/cord/amp.
Using a Pedal Power II for a power supply.........

it sounds like wind is blowing throughout my music room !!!!!

a very pronounced whoosh-whoosh-whoosh in time with the LFO pulse......

I'm going to try and remove the LED that pulses with the LFO and see if that helps....also - when connected directly as described - I get a hellacious on/off pop....that isn't evident when the pedal is in the lineup.....

Odd things today.....

Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 03:50:23 PM
Interesting discussions.....

In light of Solderman's comments I tried an experiment......

Since mine has been built it has always resided at the beginning of the pedal chain - and yes - it is a bit less than unity gain and pretty subtle - I just figured I'd let it all shake out here and a fix would be posted at some time. I mean it works and all.......


After Soldermans comments - I hooked the pedal up directly to the amp - guitar/cord/trivibe/cord/amp.
Using a Pedal Power II for a power supply.........

it sounds like wind is blowing throughout my music room !!!!!

a very pronounced whoosh-whoosh-whoosh in time with the LFO pulse......

I'm going to try and remove the LED that pulses with the LFO and see if that helps....also - when connected directly as described - I get a hellacious on/off pop....that isn't evident when the pedal is in the lineup.....

Odd things today.....

Dan

Hi Dan
I have already tryed that and it makes no change to the volume issue. This is logical since this is on the LFO side. When I made the layout i invoked a  pad for a flashing LED. I built it with one but when i boxed it i decided not to use it and removed it. I tested both with and without the flashing LED and it has no difference for the sound.
About the pop. I invoked a 1M to GND before the 10nf (R1 on my layout ) to kill possible pop:s
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on March 20, 2010, 03:55:55 PM
Interesting discussions.....

In light of Solderman's comments I tried an experiment......

Since mine has been built it has always resided at the beginning of the pedal chain - and yes - it is a bit less than unity gain and pretty subtle - I just figured I'd let it all shake out here and a fix would be posted at some time. I mean it works and all.......


After Soldermans comments - I hooked the pedal up directly to the amp - guitar/cord/trivibe/cord/amp.
Using a Pedal Power II for a power supply.........

it sounds like wind is blowing throughout my music room !!!!!

a very pronounced whoosh-whoosh-whoosh in time with the LFO pulse......

I'm going to try and remove the LED that pulses with the LFO and see if that helps....also - when connected directly as described - I get a hellacious on/off pop....that isn't evident when the pedal is in the lineup.....

Odd things today.....

Dan

Hi Dan
I have already tryed that and it makes no change to the volume issue. This is logical since this is on the LFO side.  When I made the layout i invoced a  pad for a flashing LED. I built it with one but when i boxed it i decided not to use it and removed it. I tested both with and without the flashing LED and it has no difference for the sound.


Volume issue aside - I'm wondering if the audible whooshing (would this be the infamous "ticking" that people talk about ?) - has anything to do with the LED connected to the LFO ?

Does yours make (white) noise as well ?

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 03:58:41 PM
Hi,
I've built this pedal, I'm using André's layout modified by Lyons.
I've had some trouble debugging this effect. This is what's happening:

When I turn on the pedal it doesn't nothing, the led I'm using for the LFO speed doesn't go off, it stays on. When I move the depth pot and change between the modes the sound gets affected for the filters but there's no oscillation or pitch change going on there.

The fact is that my LFO isn't working at all. I'm using a TL064CN for the LFO Opamp, a NE5532 at the buffer and a LM13700N from RS. I have triple checked all my build, my solderings are fine, no shorts, everything is fine there.  I have checked the voltages and they seem to be fine but doesn't oscillate where they should oscillate. I've changed the TL064 and the LM13700N for another one that was left from an older proyect that didn't work either (Rick Holtz's Multimode Envelope Filter). My guess at this moment is that the LM13700N could be damaged, but I'm not pretty sure if this have something to see with the LFO oscillation. I'm not using any other replacement than that.

Could you give me some tips of where should I check?

I'm a little frustrated with this building at this moment...

EDIT: Here are my readings:

Battery: 8.9v - It drops to 8.4v when connected to the pedal.

TL064CN:

1- 4v
2- 4v
3- 3.9v
4- 8.2v
5- 4.4v
6- 4.4v
7- 5.7v
8- 7.3v
9- 0v
10- 3.9v
11- 0v
12- 7.3v
13- 3.9v
14- 7.45v

LM13700N:


1- 1.2v
2- 4.8v
3- 4.15v
4- 4.1v
5- 5.1v
6- 0v
7- 5.1v
8- 3.9v
9- 4.25v
10- 5.45v
11- 8v
12- 5.4v
13- 4.1v
14- 4.1v
15- 4.8v
16- 1.2v

Well #9 shold defenetly not be 0V. have you turned the IC the wrong way around by mistake?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 20, 2010, 07:44:55 PM
Well #9 shold defenetly not be 0V. have you turned the IC the wrong way around by mistake?
Thanks for answering, solderman, in a rigorous reading I realized the voltage was actually 5mV, still too low.

I don't have turned the IC to the other way, it's exactly like in André's layout. Maybe the 10uF could be damaged? I'll try changing it.

Anyway, lug 9 of the TL064 corresponds to lug 6 of IC3 in the schematic, what voltage should I get here?

EDIT: Changing the 10uF capacitors didn't change anything.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 09:00:41 PM
Well #9 shold defenetly not be 0V. have you turned the IC the wrong way around by mistake?
Thanks for answering, solderman, in a rigorous reading I realized the voltage was actually 5mV, still too low.

I don't have turned the IC to the other way, it's exactly like in André's layout. Maybe the 10uF could be damaged? I'll try changing it.

Anyway, lug 9 of the TL064 corresponds to lug 6 of IC3 in the schematic, what voltage should I get here?

EDIT: Changing the 10uF capacitors didn't change anything.

I dont think any of your components are damaged. I have not yet after ~80 builds managed to blow mor than a filter E-lyt that I mistakingly turned the wrong way. Those components withstand more than you think. Caps and resistrors almost never fail. I think you have a solderbridge or som mixed up connections.

The volateg on #9 vill depend on the potition on the of the rate pot.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 20, 2010, 10:04:02 PM
Thanks, solderman, I have re-checked all the connections and they seem to be fine again, so I can't solve this yet... Once again, does the LM13700N has relation with the LFO oscillation? Because I'm thinking all the problem is coming from the LFO part and opamps, is it so?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 03:38:26 AM
Hi
You are probably correct about the LFO being the ghost here. There is no “connection” (besides the LFO) between the LFO part and the Audio part so if you have audio coming trough that part is probably OK. Focus on finding the error in the LFO part.
You can check this by being your “manual LFO”
Just lift the LFO connection from your board (the end not facing the IC of the 2x100K at #1&16) and give them a “simultaneously rhythmic pop” of Vref. This will sound like crap but you will know if your audio part works. After this you will never again apply for the job as LFO ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 03:47:45 AM
Interesting discussions.....

In light of Solderman's comments I tried an experiment......

Since mine has been built it has always resided at the beginning of the pedal chain - and yes - it is a bit less than unity gain and pretty subtle - I just figured I'd let it all shake out here and a fix would be posted at some time. I mean it works and all.......


After Soldermans comments - I hooked the pedal up directly to the amp - guitar/cord/trivibe/cord/amp.
Using a Pedal Power II for a power supply.........

it sounds like wind is blowing throughout my music room !!!!!

a very pronounced whoosh-whoosh-whoosh in time with the LFO pulse......

I'm going to try and remove the LED that pulses with the LFO and see if that helps....also - when connected directly as described - I get a hellacious on/off pop....that isn't evident when the pedal is in the lineup.....

Odd things today.....

Dan

Hi Dan
I have already tryed that and it makes no change to the volume issue. This is logical since this is on the LFO side.  When I made the layout i invoced a  pad for a flashing LED. I built it with one but when i boxed it i decided not to use it and removed it. I tested both with and without the flashing LED and it has no difference for the sound.


Volume issue aside - I'm wondering if the audible whooshing (would this be the infamous "ticking" that people talk about ?) - has anything to do with the LED connected to the LFO ?

Does yours make (white) noise as well ?


Yes, it whoosches along with the LFO speed. No ticking but the background hum from pickups etc is also pronounced it the sound. This is normal as I see it. It’s just background sound going thru the effect and the effect effects the sound like it suppose to do
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 21, 2010, 09:24:20 AM
Hi
You are probably correct about the LFO being the ghost here. There is no “connection” (besides the LFO) between the LFO part and the Audio part so if you have audio coming trough that part is probably OK. Focus on finding the error in the LFO part.
You can check this by being your “manual LFO”
Just lift the LFO connection from your board (the end not facing the IC of the 2x100K at #1&16) and give them a “simultaneously rhythmic pop” of Vref. This will sound like crap but you will know if your audio part works. After this you will never again apply for the job as LFO ;D

Ha! Thanks, I'll try that :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on March 21, 2010, 09:59:01 AM
Regarding the volume drop mentioned in the previous page:

1) Neither Brian nor I have noticed a volume drop on our builds, so if it is there, it is likely something related to that particular build, wiring, or external cabling.

2) The output opamp U1b can be considered a buffer (even though it serves as a mixer too), so adding another buffer after it won't help with the underlying condition. An TL072 can drive easily a 10k impedance; your pedals and amp should be well above 100k.

3) Notice that U1a and U1b have a 47k, 15k and 4n7.  These elements form a pre and de-emphasis network to help reducing noise.  If for some reason these parts have wide tolerance (10% or more) volume change might be noticeable.  If volume change is subtle, I'd suspect the 4n7 capacitors being different. Consider one of these components may not be correct in value, so it would help to read it with a meter.  When I was starting in electronics I got a hard time from an 1N4007 diode.  In the end the band that marks the cathode was printed at the anode...

4) I think the most logical test is to use this simple chain: Guitar -> Tri-vibe -> Amp  with nothing else connected.  Make sure this works OK before adding more pedals.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 21, 2010, 12:41:35 PM
Okay, my problem is solved, it was a bad speed potentiometer ::)
This pedal is killer, really good Vibe sound.

In my build I've noted both of the mentioned problems: Volume loss and Switch Pop, so I changed the TL072 at the buffer for a NE5532 just for testing purposes and both of the problems were solved, no switch pop and no volume loss, now it's a complete build.

Thanks for this awesome project guys, I'm really happy with the results, and thanks to solderman for giving me a hand debugging it, we were right about the problem was in "that part" of the LFO ;)

Soon I'll be uploading a video demo of the finished build and I'll be posting it here.

Regards,
Fernando.-
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 05:01:05 PM
Regarding the volume drop mentioned in the previous page:

1) Neither Brian nor I have noticed a volume drop on our builds, so if it is there, it is likely something related to that particular build, wiring, or external cabling.

2) The output opamp U1b can be considered a buffer (even though it serves as a mixer too), so adding another buffer after it won't help with the underlying condition. An TL072 can drive easily a 10k impedance; your pedals and amp should be well above 100k.

3) Notice that U1a and U1b have a 47k, 15k and 4n7.  These elements form a pre and de-emphasis network to help reducing noise.  If for some reason these parts have wide tolerance (10% or more) volume change might be noticeable.  If volume change is subtle, I'd suspect the 4n7 capacitors being different. Consider one of these components may not be correct in value, so it would help to read it with a meter.  When I was starting in electronics I got a hard time from an 1N4007 diode.  In the end the band that marks the cathode was printed at the anode...

4) I think the most logical test is to use this simple chain: Guitar -> Tri-vibe -> Amp  with nothing else connected.  Make sure this works OK before adding more pedals.
Sebastian
Regarding the volume drop. I have tested exactly the way you describe. And I have found some very interesting results. I found the same thing as Dan did. When connected

Guitar>cable>Tri Vibe>Amp there is no problem. But when I put it first in my pedal chain
(Guitar >cable>Tri Vibe>13 boxes all true bypass and all switched in bypass mode connected with cheap cables>Amp) there is a considerable volume loss and a loud pop when switched.

This amount of true bypass boxes will result in a tone loss. That’s the reason I have a switchbox first that also contains a line buffer that is wired with a true by pass on/off switch. The guitar is normally connected directly to this switch box. In this case the Tri Vibe is in between the guitar and the switch box. As soon as I switch in the line buffer the volume loss is gone and the pop at switching stops. My theory is that the capacitance of the pedal chain rocks the balance of the output buffer some how. I am not that skilled in electronics to say how but that’s my guess.

I have also checked the 4n7 and they are correct. If they were not I assume the problem would occur all the time regardless of routing.

Any thoughts ??
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 05:03:03 PM
Okay, my problem is solved, it was a bad speed potentiometer ::)
This pedal is killer, really good Vibe sound.

In my build I've noted both of the mentioned problems: Volume loss and Switch Pop, so I changed the TL072 at the buffer for a NE5532 just for testing purposes and both of the problems were solved, no switch pop and no volume loss, now it's a complete build.

Thanks for this awesome project guys, I'm really happy with the results, and thanks to solderman for giving me a hand debugging it, we were right about the problem was in "that part" of the LFO ;)

Soon I'll be uploading a video demo of the finished build and I'll be posting it here.

Regards,
Fernando.-

Hi
Glad to hear that your dessert walk is over ;D

Interesting thing about the NE5532   :o
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on March 21, 2010, 07:22:11 PM
Sebastian
Regarding the volume drop. I have tested exactly the way you describe. And I have found some very interesting results. I found the same thing as Dan did. When connected

Guitar>cable>Tri Vibe>Amp there is no problem. But when I put it first in my pedal chain
(Guitar >cable>Tri Vibe>13 boxes all true bypass and all switched in bypass mode connected with cheap cables>Amp) there is a considerable volume loss and a loud pop when switched.

This amount of true bypass boxes will result in a tone loss. That’s the reason I have a switchbox first that also contains a line buffer that is wired with a true by pass on/off switch. The guitar is normally connected directly to this switch box. In this case the Tri Vibe is in between the guitar and the switch box. As soon as I switch in the line buffer the volume loss is gone and the pop at switching stops. My theory is that the capacitance of the pedal chain rocks the balance of the output buffer some how. I am not that skilled in electronics to say how but that’s my guess.

I have also checked the 4n7 and they are correct. If they were not I assume the problem would occur all the time regardless of routing.

Any thoughts ??
Maybe there is something odd going on with the 1uF capacitor at the end.  I'd check polarity and perhaps replace it with a larger value, like 10uF and see if there is a change.  The output buffer is pretty standard, so I can't imagine why it shouldn't work properly, unless there is something odd with the cabling or loading of other components.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: danielzink on March 21, 2010, 09:35:02 PM
So in a whim today - as noted several times above.......

I decided to give it a shot........I popped an NE5532 in the '072 slot.....

And life is good !

Maybe I had a bad night last night - maybe my amp was mad at me - maybe my pedals decided to stage a revolt......

whatever......the NE5532 has silenced the "white noise"

I have achieved unity gain.......

I can sleep restfully again..................

 :icon_lol:


Dan
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on March 22, 2010, 02:03:36 AM
So in a whim today - as noted several times above.......

I decided to give it a shot........I popped an NE5532 in the '072 slot.....

And life is good !

Maybe I had a bad night last night - maybe my amp was mad at me - maybe my pedals decided to stage a revolt......

whatever......the NE5532 has silenced the "white noise"

I have achieved unity gain.......

I can sleep restfully again..................

 :icon_lol:


Dan


All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy............

My TL072 is soldered directly to the board so I have to be haunted by the volume loss & pop ghost OR desolder resolder an 8 lug IC. :icon_evil:
The devils choice  :(

But then I put it last in my pedal change and the sky has opened itself to me :o

There it will rest in Peace with the the rest of my equipment. ;D
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: doc_drop on March 22, 2010, 10:11:47 AM
Quote
I did wind up replacing the TL072 with an NE5532. I don't know why, but making that change has made both this circuit and a Nurse Quacky I built last week work much better.

That was my experience as far back as page 6 of this thread. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: stm on March 22, 2010, 09:25:23 PM
Well, it seems there are at least a couple of reports that support the usage of NE5532 in place of a TL072 for U1.  Apart from being lower noise, it has greater drive capabilities, which seems to be a plus in this particular circuit.  In summary, if you have an NE5532 available, use it for U1 as your first choice.  In my case I have a TL072 working in my build, so I haven't had the need to switch to an NE5532.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 23, 2010, 09:18:41 AM
Here's a video I've made of the pedal. Hope it serves to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEsIIPE1Sw

Regards,
Fernando.-
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on March 24, 2010, 05:17:30 PM
wow, this is the best sounding demo for the tri-vibe up to now. And the etched enclosure is amazing, as always!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: FuzzyFool on April 08, 2010, 03:57:45 AM
Hi guys,

Relatively new here - but been messing about building guitars and simple effects (Germanium Fuzz Faces / treble boosts etc.) for years, and only just started to look at more challenging (for me!) effects builds. 
Go easy on me - I don't really understand much about what I am doing electronics-wise - I can just about cope with discrete components - but this is my first foray into anything involving ICs.  :icon_redface:

I have just finished putting together the tri-vibe - on a board I etched myself - but am having some "fun" trying to debug it.

I have triple checked all connections / tracks for shorts etc all electrolytic caps and diodes are correctly orientated - so can I now ask for some assistance from you electronics Gurus on here.

Symptoms:

Nothing at all audible with switch in central "vibe" position.
Clean audio getting thru on other two settings - but with no (or extremely subtle) vibe. Pots have no effect.
I am using a lin 10k pot for depth and a normal log 500k pot for rate with lugs 1 and 3 reversed as I can't easily find a C taper version - I am in the UK

I am using TL064CN, LM13700N, and NE5532P

Voltages on pins of U1-U3 seem mostly to be in the ball park with switch in vibe position and both pots about halfway - and I can list voltages if needs be.
Some of the voltages are a little hard to pin down as they fluctuate - I assume that is because they are supposed to?

However, pins 10 and 12 of the LM13700 seem low at 0.6V?

Any ideas?

Only component I was a little unsure of was the red LED - I used what I believe was a "normal" 5mm red led - not a superbright or high intensity one - is this critical.

Thanks in advance.

FF
 





 
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: FuzzyFool on April 08, 2010, 06:31:54 AM
Hey Guys,

Newb again.

checking my pin voltages against ones published on here - there may be some other issues - so I will put my measured values here - I have used "average" values for the values that fluctuate.

Battery out of circuit 9.2V

TL064

1    4.37
2    4.37
3    4.16
4    8.71
5    4.3
6    4.3
7    3.2
8    4.3
9    4.36
10  4.36
11  0
12  4.3
13  4.0
14  4.5

LM13600

1    1.26
2    5.2
3    4.55
4    4.55
5    7.5
6    0
7    7.5
8    6.6
9    2.23
10  0.6
11  8.66
12  0.6
13  4.63
14  4.61
15  5.28
16  1.26

NE5532

1    4.09
2    4.08
3    2.02
4    0
5    4.34
6    4.34
7    4.34
8    8.64

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated - I can't wait to get this thing working - on the basis of the sound clips it will be awesome!

Thanks

FF

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on April 08, 2010, 07:31:18 AM
Which layout did you use?

Seems like the OTA sections aren't passing signal and you have some voltage measurements that don't match the normal ones (pins 5,7,8,9,10,12).  Recheck the connections and components.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: FuzzyFool on April 08, 2010, 07:57:18 AM
HI,

I used the pcb and layout and  from the ROG site (pcb / layout by Andre Schaap / redrawn by John Lyons, following latest recommendations re using a NE5532 for U1)


Yep - will recheck everything again when I get home after work - I did check the pcb under high magnification when I etched it, and every solder joint as I made them - so I am pretty sure the conections are OK  :-\- I will go through it all again to ensure I have not got any resistors values wrong.
I am confident of all the other components being correct / oriented correctly.

Er.....what's an OTA?

Told you I was new to this!

Thanks

FF
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on April 08, 2010, 01:24:27 PM
OTA=operational transconductance amplifier (the LM13600 stages)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: FuzzyFool on April 08, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
All is now well!  ;D

I obviously didn't check the connections well enough - problem was a dry solder joint on the lm13700 ic socket.

Just gotta persuade my wife to go watch tv downstairs so I can play my guitar!!!

FF
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on August 17, 2010, 04:01:01 PM
I've just finished building a TriVibe using a PCB made by André:
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx161/andre_schaap/Tri-VibePCBLayout.jpg

See André's build which I used as example:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81099.msg672534#msg672534
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81099.msg673067#msg673067

I made this drill plan and build it into a BB enclosure which was pretty tight.
(http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/Tri%20Vibe%20Drill%20plan%20BB%20-%20Flo.JPG)

Near U1B are two 1uF caps. I used 220nF MKT caps instead because I think that's large enough for all low frequencies to pass.

Picts:
(http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/DSCI0023.jpg)
(http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/DSCI0028.jpg)
(http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/DSCI0008b.jpg)
(http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/DSCI0006b.jpg)

For the front I think I'' use this design inspired by André's front design (font is "Brushed Script"):
http://home.online.nl/fvrijswijk/guitar_electronics_diy/tri_vibe_vibrato/Tri-VibeFrontDesign.bmp

Samples:
http://www.soundclick.com/flosounds

First impressions:
Especially the Swirl position (like a 2 stage phaser) with Speed on 1 and Depth open sounds great! :)
The Vibe position (vibrato) is not really my thing but with Depth on 3 and Speed on 3 it is a nice vibrato. Good for surf or blues ("Things that I used to do" intro - SRV) I guess.
The LFO is really amazing. This one should be in any phasers, flangers etc instead of a triangle-wave!
The sound with Depth closed in Vibe mode is different than in bypass, more highs and a little less mids. Perhaps a bit too much different, I'm loosing a bit of "tone"...

Wish:
Tri Vibe LFO and 4 delay stages with Univibe caps instead of 2 stages, with a Mix pot instead of the switch, in a BB enclosure. ;)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: alparent on September 24, 2010, 11:21:54 AM
Here's a video I've made of the pedal. Hope it serves to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEsIIPE1Sw

Regards,
Fernando.-

Can you explain the 3 LED in the telephone pole?

MAN your etchings are AMAZING!  :o You got talent man! If I only had 1/10 of your talent!
What software are you using? Are you a graphics designer or something?

Your enclosure are works of art.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: azrael on October 12, 2010, 01:44:56 AM
Can I get a tone out of this circuit kinda like Guns N Roses' Paradise City's intro? I think I might finally etch a PCB for this baby.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on October 12, 2010, 06:46:04 AM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Scruffie on October 12, 2010, 06:51:01 AM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge
Mr Lyons already performed such a service  :) http://www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf

Gotta give thanks here to Andre' for his layouts, the man knows what I like in them.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on October 12, 2010, 07:58:37 AM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge
Mr Lyons already performed such a service  :) http://www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf

Gotta give thanks here to Andre' for his layouts, the man knows what I like in them.

Thanks, but I already knew that layout. For my purposes and taste it's to big. So I'll gonna redraw Andres layout with sprint layout.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Scruffie on October 12, 2010, 08:01:30 AM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge
Mr Lyons already performed such a service  :) http://www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf

Gotta give thanks here to Andre' for his layouts, the man knows what I like in them.

Thanks, but I already knew that layout. For my purposes and taste it's to big. So I'll gonna redraw Andres layout with sprint layout.
That isn't John Lyons modified layout, that's just Andre's one as a PDF that John Converted for someone so it should be the same size as the original? I assume for your purposes and tastes you mean a 1590B in which case, that's the right layout.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on October 12, 2010, 08:13:15 AM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge
Mr Lyons already performed such a service  :) http://www.basicaudio.net/Tri-VibePCBLayout.pdf

Gotta give thanks here to Andre' for his layouts, the man knows what I like in them.

Thanks, but I already knew that layout. For my purposes and taste it's to big. So I'll gonna redraw Andres layout with sprint layout.
That isn't John Lyons modified layout, that's just Andre's one as a PDF that John Converted for someone so it should be the same size as the original? I assume for your purposes and tastes you mean a 1590B in which case, that's the right layout.

If U C K! Yes, you're right! I don't know why, but I thought it was the link to the rog John Lyons layout.:( Sorry mate!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Scruffie on October 12, 2010, 08:15:25 AM
If U C K! Yes, you're right! I don't know why, but I thought it was the link to the rog John Lyons layout.:( Sorry mate!
Haha, not to worry, I made the same mistake myself originally.  :)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: soupbone on October 12, 2010, 01:33:30 PM
I bought their "Neo-Vibe pcb.Is it similar to that?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on October 12, 2010, 05:25:05 PM
Hi,

is there any way to get andres layout as a pdf? I know I did it with his jpeg in the past but I gave it away. Now it's a pain in the ass to get it scaled correctly with inkscape using the grid funktion. But what realy bugs me is that I get to many pixel artefacts around the traces. :-\

Helge

I asked the same question a few weeks ago:

Quote
Hi!
Could someone post a scaled version of Andre Schaaps layout, please? Maybe as a pdf?
regards, Immo

And this was your -not very polite- answer:

Quote from: Fuzz Aldryn
... Oh Mann Immo!  Huh  Must be hard to use Inkscape "ctrl.+ shift + d" to make a 2,54mm grid to scale it hole to hole. And I'm pretty sure you know that trick form the other german speaking forum.  icon_rolleyes

mmmhh  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on October 12, 2010, 05:50:51 PM
... damals habe ich es auch hinbekommen - wie auch diesmal. Das Skalieren war und ist nicht mal so das Ding mit Inkscape. Aber die Artefakte der jpeg störten mich diesmal einfach zu sehr. Du unterschlägst allerdings dabei auch, dass genau zu der Zeit auf'm MD genau die Methode des Skalierens besprochen und erklärt wurde. ;-)
Aber wenn ich mal Zeit habe, werde ich das verdammt Layout nochmal mit Sprint routen, denn die Auflösung in der verlinkten pdf ist auch saumäßig - und ja, ich werde es irgendwo hochladen und posten.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on October 14, 2010, 10:37:49 AM
If some one likes small, here is the layout and etc to fit in a 1590A and bigger boxes as well of cause ;D

And in PDF allready

Project file
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri-Vibe Project file.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri-Vibe Project file.pdf)
PCB Without pour
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB.pdf)
PCB With Pour
http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB pours.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/Tri Vibe PCB pours.pdf)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: neil411 on October 21, 2010, 03:54:34 PM
Hi guys,

I put this one together after a hiatus from pedal building over the summer. I ran into a few issues that I have fixed, but I still can't seem to get the thing to swing.

I have very soft and slow oscillations and the pots don't seem to make any difference.

Here are my voltages:


Voltage V+ - 9.90 v

NE5532P - IC1
1 - 4.81
2 - 4.81
3 - 4.38
4 - 0
5 - 4.81
6 - 4.81
7 - 4.81
8 - 9.65


TL064CN - IC2
1 - 4.81
2 - 4.81
3 - 7.06
4 - 9.58
5 - 9.11
6 - 4.81
7 - 3.72
8 - 3.65 - 6.00
9 - 4.81
10 - 4.81
11 - 0
12 - 2.50 - 6.40
13 - 4.81
14 - 0.60 - 9.55


JRC13600D - IC3
1 - 1.28
2 - 5.7
3 - 5.04
4 - 5.05
5 - 5.90
6 - 0
7 - 5.90
8 - 4.70
9 - 5.38
10 - 6.59
11 - 9.67
12 - 6.58
13 - 5.04
14 - 5.04
15 - 5.70
16 - 1.28

Anyone see anything that stands out?

Thanks,
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: coi2001 on October 23, 2010, 07:31:06 PM
I would like to fine tune the depth of my build (Slacker's vero). I was wondering what would be the best way to increase the depth of the effect. Would adjusting the component values around the LFO be the way to go?
Thank you
Coi2001
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 15, 2010, 08:34:20 AM
Will the PCB board for sale from basic audio fit into a 1590B enclosure???
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on November 15, 2010, 03:58:18 PM
Will the PCB board for sale from basic audio fit into a 1590B enclosure???

I don´t think so. Use the original layout from Andre Schaap(?), it´s a bit smaller.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 15, 2010, 11:41:22 PM
:( i dont get it. Why not just use the small design in the first place. A 1590BB box is pretty big for such a small circuit with only two controls.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: chromesphere on November 16, 2010, 01:03:29 AM
Hi guys,

I built the Tri-vibe recently, had a few issues, all of which being my own doing :)

I have made a you tube....ah....video...of it.  I hope you like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9NYFJ4oHWc

CS
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on November 16, 2010, 04:09:00 PM
:( i dont get it. Why not just use the small design in the first place. A 1590BB box is pretty big for such a small circuit with only two controls.

Well
If you use the PCB layout I posted in the page before you can chose between 1590BB, B or A as in the pic below. It does not get smaller than that I think :-)

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri%20Vibe/tv.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 16, 2010, 07:05:41 PM
:( i cant make pcb. I cabt drill the holes! And im around enough poison all the time as it is.



The 1590A is where its at. Thats how small the pedal should be.

I did like Andres beautiful black one tho too...



Im just going to box this up with a tremulus lune and two foot switches
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Barcode80 on November 16, 2010, 09:24:31 PM
:( i cant make pcb. I cabt drill the holes! And im around enough poison all the time as it is.



The 1590A is where its at. Thats how small the pedal should be.

I did like Andres beautiful black one tho too...



Im just going to box this up with a tremulus lune and two foot switches

Small is not always the goal. For example, I'd much rather have a slightly larger pedal that I could properly layout neat clean lines in for wiring, etc. Also, the more you pack in components IME you are more likely to have to deal with solder bridges. I also think a neatly laid out larger board with aesthetically pleasing parts placement beats the jumble you sometimes have to do for parts to get a tight layout.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 17, 2010, 10:57:43 AM
I never get solder bridges. Just put stuff in the wrong place.

But I always build on perf. I can't imagine messing up a PCB layout no matter how complicated the off board wiring is.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 17, 2010, 11:01:30 AM
Oh I get it. Not making your own PCBs is noobish, so if you buy it, why not have the big noobish PCB with huge pads and traces and tons of space.



Oh wait, I keep forgetting you need a freakin drill press to drill all the holes!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Barcode80 on November 17, 2010, 12:02:09 PM
Oh I get it. Not making your own PCBs is noobish, so if you buy it, why not have the big noobish PCB with huge pads and traces and tons of space.



Oh wait, I keep forgetting you need a freakin drill press to drill all the holes!
Taking it a bit personal eh?

"Noobish" doesn't enter into it. For me, it's aesthetics. I have an enormous amount of respect for those that can cram a circuit into a small box, and I can generally as well, and I do it on occasion. But in my own builds, I like my interior to look as clean and organized as possible, and for me that isn't always possible with a tiny crammed board. Dumb things like resistors all laying flat and minimal offboard components make things look cleaner to me, and I don't want 800 pedals on my board anyway so size of the pedal isn't usually an issue. It's just a preference. I was just saying it's not as crazy as you make it sound.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: azrael on November 17, 2010, 12:16:06 PM
solderman, I've taken one attempt at your PCB, the traces are so thin! Couldn't get a few of them to connect. I'm going to try again soon...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on November 18, 2010, 01:01:22 AM
solderman, I've taken one attempt at your PCB, the traces are so thin! Couldn't get a few of them to connect. I'm going to try again soon...
I allways use the UV light method to do the PCB:s. The P&P does not give the precision needed.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on November 18, 2010, 01:07:23 AM
:( i cant make pcb. I cabt drill the holes! And im around enough poison all the time as it is.



The 1590A is where its at. Thats how small the pedal should be.

I did like Andres beautiful black one tho too...



Im just going to box this up with a tremulus lune and two foot switches

Small is not always the goal. For example, I'd much rather have a slightly larger pedal that I could properly layout neat clean lines in for wiring, etc. Also, the more you pack in components IME you are more likely to have to deal with solder bridges. I also think a neatly laid out larger board with aesthetically pleasing parts placement beats the jumble you sometimes have to do for parts to get a tight layout.

True enough but it Allso depends on what the goal is.
I started with bigger boxes and got bored of building "yet an other 1590B dist" so the shrinking is a challenge for me to see where the physical limit goes for cramming in normal components in a 1590A and still get it to operate sound vice and mechanically in a live environment.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 23, 2010, 12:59:06 AM
Are there working voltage measurements out there? All i can find are ones with bugs.

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 24, 2010, 07:09:36 AM
...getting LFO tick or noise. Anyone else have this? I used the PCB from John Lyon


Also is there no way to get more depth? Increasing the depth pot? Or is 10kohms for NO depth??
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on November 24, 2010, 07:46:28 AM

True enough but it Allso depends on what the goal is.
I started with bigger boxes and got bored of building "yet an other 1590B dist" so the shrinking is a challenge for me to see where the physical limit goes for cramming in normal components in a 1590A and still get it to operate sound vice and mechanically in a live environment.





For me it ain't that I'm bored with building in 1590Bs. It depends on the circuit. I can't and dont wanna put a tremulus lune in a 1590B cos it has 5 or 6 pots and a toggle switch. But I don't want to put a freakin Tri Vibe in 1590BB enclosure because it ONLY has 2 controls and 1 toggle. I have 20 devices on my pedal board (only 3 distortions) and I can't have 2 inches of wasted space on all four sides for such a small circuit.


I'm gunna box it up with the tremulus lune. The PCB from Basicaudio is huge. total noob status. The pads and traces were so huge they were almost touching each other. And it felt like it was "kids soldering" for ages 8 and up. How could I miss??  I got it done it like 10 minutes evn tho I was daydreaming and I stopped to play air guitar to a couple songs during the process. But it still wasnt worth how much space the board takes up.

What's the point of building a freakin pedal if you can buy something better? If the pedal is gunna be HUGE and you could just buy  something like it for cheaper and SMALLER? I won't build anything if it's gunna turn out bigger than a commercial unit would. And I won't build anything that I think is gunna take up more space than it's worth. I've seen Rangemasters around here in 1590BB enclosures. Jesus!

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: RickS on November 29, 2010, 12:09:39 AM
Just built a Tri-vibe from Slacker's Veroboard layout.  First of all--credit where credit's due--ROG for the concept and design, and to Slacker for the Vero layout.  Thanks, guys, for sharing your knowledge and efforts. 

I haven't installed the board and off-board components in a box yet, just wired it up on a chair and plugged it in to test--basically a "breadboard" setup, running on 9V battery putting out 9.64 volts.  Mostly, it works, but with a few bugs, and I could use some ideas if anybody can help:

1.) Getting a pretty strong "thump" that increases in rate with the rate pot, but goes away at lower levels of rate.  Assume it's LFO related, but I would not describe it as a "tick", nor the whoosh-whoosh described earlier.  I don't really want to do all the box drilling, installing, etc. before I de-bug it, but is it likely the thump comes from being totally unshielded?  Would putting it into the (metal) box shield it and eliminate the thump?

2.) Both pots seem to have a lot of "wasted range" at both ends of the wiper travel.  I did use an A taper pot for the Rate pot, and reversed leads as described in ROG's build notes.  The 820K resistor stays the same, bridging #1 and 3 lugs on the pot, but does the jumper from lug 2 stay on lug 1, or go to lug 3 when the leads are reversed?  Could this be some (all!!) of my problem?  [ I do plan to eventually replace the Rate pot with the right one--a 500K C-taper, but from the build notes in ROG's article, I was expecting only reverse operation, and maybe some "bunching" up of the effect at one or the other end of the wiper travel--not a noise problem]


3.) I had to substitute 2 of the diodes, because I mis-ordered.  I used 2 1N914 diodes I had on hand to sub for the 1N4149's specified.  They seem to be indistinguishable, in fact, on line, the Fairchild data sheet is the same for both diodes, and I could find no mention of any significant difference.  But--obviously the guys at ROG know what they're doing, I only occasionally think I know what I'm doing. . . (and am often wrong)  Any chance this is my problem?

4.)  I ran out of caps and had to use a disc cap for one of the 4n7 caps.  I don't recall seeing any disc caps in anybody's build photos, and according to an article I read somewhere, disc caps can be microphonic.  Although I thumped the cap several times with a finger, it did not make any noise, or alter the thump-thump-thump which is what I would expect a microphonic component to do (like tubes in my amp when they get microphonic).  But again, any chance this is the problem?   Why don't builders use disk caps in stompbox FX's?

5.) Post at or near the top of the page asks is there is a component(s) that can be changed to provide more depth.  It might be part of what's already wrong with my build, but I'd like to add more depth, also, if there is a reasonable mod. that can be made to the circuit.

6.)  Is there anything about going from the two TL-062's to the single TL-064 that I should check that might be part of the problem?   (Other IC's used include NJM13600D and TL072, all from Small Bear)

I have not measured any voltages in the circuit, but can, if this would help someone point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me.  This is really exciting--I'm looking forward to my new, quiet Tri-Vibe.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on December 25, 2010, 04:27:54 PM
BTW
Is there any news about why the circuit behaves strange with different IC:s for U1 but NE5532 ?

See earlier posts about low output and ticking etc..
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Barcode80 on December 25, 2010, 11:32:15 PM
without looking at the schem...

if you are using an ne5532 for the lfo section, i can tell you it will be a pain in the ass. i've never gotten an lfo to work with an ne5532 without changing some parts values in the lfo section. it's just such a stable opamp, with all kinds of internal stabilization which makes it a little harder to drive into oscillation.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: El Heisenberg on December 28, 2010, 02:55:30 AM
huhh that's strange cos, I've had better luck with ne5532s.

When I built the Dr. Quack and Nurse Quacky I had to use ne5532s, nothing else worked. Not using it in an LFO but, still...

I used an ne5532 that I bought just for the tri-vibe cos I was afriad nothing else would work.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Barcode80 on December 28, 2010, 10:16:23 AM
Hmm, maybe I just have a huge batch of oddly speced ones. I've built quite a few tremolos and other LFO based stuff with them, and usually either the LFO won't kick in at all or it locks up every so often. Or in some cases, it locks up until you turn the LFO speed all the way down, then it kicks back in and works normally.

It would appear from some of the comments in the Little Angel thread that others may have experienced the same differences:


I don't see any reason to prefer the NE5532 in this circuit, other than the fact that it's already been verified.  However, if you do want to swap op-amps, the input resistance of the NE5532 is so low that a TL072 is not really a direct replacement.  You'll need to reduce the gain of the audio part and mess with the impedances in the LFO part to make the performance the same with a TL072.

I wonder how this would sound if it had a tone control

I'm gonna add a 'dark' pot for tone to the elite version - "Archangel"

@ clamup1: did you use a NE5532 dual opamp? The circuit values are set up to work with a NE5532. Other dual opamp type will give different results.


Pretty weird though that it works for you. I wonder if it's a difference in the particular batch I got.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: chromesphere on December 31, 2010, 02:07:55 AM
Hi all,

The IC i used in mine is a TL072.  As in the clip i posted earlier, im not getting any weirdness or odd sounds. 

Tested it just now, turned my amp up real loud, and run it through a number of settings.  Zero tick, whoosh, pop, absolutely clean as a whistle.

Just thought i would share that and hope it helps!

Good luck!
Paul
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: solderman on January 04, 2011, 03:23:24 PM
without looking at the schem...

if you are using an ne5532 for the lfo section, i can tell you it will be a pain in the ass. i've never gotten an lfo to work with an ne5532 without changing some parts values in the lfo section. it's just such a stable opamp, with all kinds of internal stabilization which makes it a little harder to drive into oscillation.

The referens to 5532 was about some issues suspected to derive from the output buffer part of the circuit. not the LFO part. Se page 11-12 in this thread.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Barcode80 on January 04, 2011, 09:57:52 PM
without looking at the schem...

if you are using an ne5532 for the lfo section, i can tell you it will be a pain in the ass. i've never gotten an lfo to work with an ne5532 without changing some parts values in the lfo section. it's just such a stable opamp, with all kinds of internal stabilization which makes it a little harder to drive into oscillation.

The referens to 5532 was about some issues suspected to derive from the output buffer part of the circuit. not the LFO part. Se page 11-12 in this thread.


...?

I know, but I am not referring to that. I'm saying NE5532's are fickle when it comes to using them in LFOs. I hadn't even seen your post.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: azrael on January 17, 2011, 01:32:11 PM
Am I correct in thinking that a LM13700 would be just fine for the 13600 used here? I can't find a 13600, but my research is suggesting that the 13700 might actually be better?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: ddpawel on January 17, 2011, 04:53:02 PM
You can even try NE5517.
Quality and Audio properties in order (the best -> the worst)
NE5571 -> LM13700 -> LM13600.
And remember to use only good manufacturer items eg. Philips, ON, National.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on January 17, 2011, 07:24:55 PM
I really don't know what's wrong with my pedal...

It sounded really good, but it had much more hiss than all the pedals in the demos that are linked here. I replaced every IC, but the hiss stayed exactly the same.
So I put the pedal on the shelf for some weeks. When I wanted to use it yesterday, it was totally dead. No idea, what happened...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on January 17, 2011, 07:54:00 PM

Roseblood
Was this with a dirt pedal of just by itself?
Mine sounds quiet by itself but a LOT of his when put with any distortion or overdrive.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on January 17, 2011, 08:13:28 PM
Just the pedal by itself. Tried some wall warts and a battery, no change. There was definitely s.th. wrong with the pedal.
I really don´t understand what caused the hiss, as I replaced all IC's...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gginther on February 22, 2011, 03:29:59 PM
Hi Folks,

I'm working on my Tri-Vibe build using Slacker's vero layout http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/trivibeboardfinal.jpg.html)  It's working overall but I'm having a few issues:

1. I get a loud thumping at the top end of the Depth control and a bit of ticking when the Rate is really high.  The Rate ticking doesn't bother me that much since I doubt I would ever use at an extremely fast setting, but I would like to get rid of the thump.

2. The 3 effects overall depth seems a little subdued compared with the sound samples I heard for this pedal. The Vibe mode in particular is very subtle even at extreme settings.

I'm comparing the Slacker layout with the Schematic at ROG http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html (http://runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html) and I was wondering where the C5 1u cap is on the Schematic.  I can find the other C7 1u next to the U1b #7 pin am I missing C5 somewhere?

thanks!
Gray
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: slacker on February 23, 2011, 07:54:18 AM
C5 on my layout is the cap connected to pin 9 of the LM13600, it's 220n on the schematic. I don't know why I've got it as 1uF, could just be a mistake or maybe the schematic changed. I don't think that will have anything to do with the thumping.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gginther on February 23, 2011, 09:48:04 AM
OK, I'll switch out the cap. Thanks! I wonder if shielded wire would help with the thumping or if I should be looking at something else for the problem?

thanks again,
Gray
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: miklax on June 07, 2011, 01:26:25 AM
Hi there!!

Here's my vision of the Tri-vibe. :)
Great work guys :) I love this pedal.

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3008/dsc08625z.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on June 07, 2011, 07:58:00 AM
This is how my turned out:
(http://img.dimehead.de/thumbs/K1024__MG_0571-Bearbeitet.jpg) (http://img.dimehead.de/K1024__MG_0571-Bearbeitet.jpg)

(http://img.dimehead.de/thumbs/K1024__MG_0587-Bearbeitet-Bearbeitet.jpg) (http://img.dimehead.de/K1024__MG_0587-Bearbeitet-Bearbeitet.jpg)

Thanks for this nice pedal project!

Helge
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: gginther on June 07, 2011, 09:18:37 AM
I got mine working a while back.  It sounds great and I use it constantly! Thanks R.O.G. folks!!

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7166/trivibefront.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/trivibefront.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on June 07, 2011, 02:41:11 PM
It is really great to see such beautiful builds and enthusiastic reviews!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: rbstep on June 09, 2011, 11:58:20 AM
How about that?  Shout out to R.O.G..................
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Jerem on September 20, 2011, 02:16:00 PM
I just finished this stompbox and all is ok but the led indicator is not working. I think it's strange
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: flo on September 30, 2011, 04:44:26 AM
Measure the voltage across the LED while in bypass and while it's on.
Remove the LED wiring from the (true bypass) footswitch and check if its working when you connect it directly to the +9V and earth (GND).
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Brainbender on March 02, 2012, 04:44:33 AM
I've built this pedal and it sounds good, but i'm not very impressed with the random ticking, background noise and some similar stuff. Tried NE5532, TL072 and few more with no luck. Always the same. :icon_rolleyes:
I'm thinking of Ross Phaser with Univibe mod.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on March 02, 2012, 05:43:27 AM
I've built this pedal and it sounds good, but i'm not very impressed with the random ticking, background noise and some similar stuff. Tried NE5532, TL072 and few more with no luck. Always the same. :icon_rolleyes:
I'm thinking of Ross Phaser with Univibe mod.

What layout did you use?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: lonewolf on March 03, 2012, 02:01:15 AM
you may have a problem with the led..it will make a thump/tick noise..I used the 3 diodes in series and socketed them....the ross phaser with the univibe mod is a more versatile pedal (with the vibrato).if you dont mind 4 dpdt mini switches and 1 spdt....but the univibe function sounds a little weak...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on March 03, 2012, 07:03:30 AM
I really don't know what's wrong with my pedal...

It sounded really good, but it had much more hiss than all the pedals in the demos that are linked here. I replaced every IC, but the hiss stayed exactly the same.


No ideas? I checked every solder joint and every parts value. Can't find any mistake... I used André Schaaps layout.
The noise is gone completely if I remove the 13700. But replacing it doesn't help!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on March 03, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
No ideas? I checked every solder joint and every parts value. Can't find any mistake... I used André Schaaps layout.
The noise is gone completely if I remove the 13700. But replacing it doesn't help!

I'm sorry to hear that and I understand how frustrating it is to not find a fault or error.  All I can suggest is that you recheck the connections and components.  Something must be causing your build to behave differently than the others built with that layout.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Slade on March 03, 2012, 09:10:14 AM
I really don't know what's wrong with my pedal...

It sounded really good, but it had much more hiss than all the pedals in the demos that are linked here. I replaced every IC, but the hiss stayed exactly the same.


No ideas? I checked every solder joint and every parts value. Can't find any mistake... I used André Schaaps layout.
The noise is gone completely if I remove the 13700. But replacing it doesn't help!
Did you tried NE5532 for the signal path? I had that problem first time I built one, and it was solved by using that IC. I just built another one some days back and I had no noises at all, it's really quiet and has no ticking.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: roseblood11 on March 03, 2012, 09:26:48 AM
Yes I did - and any other opamp that I had.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: B Tremblay on March 03, 2012, 10:25:56 AM
Did you tried NE5532 for the signal path? I had that problem first time I built one, and it was solved by using that IC. I just built another one some days back and I had no noises at all, it's really quiet and has no ticking.

Which layout did you use?  How many Tri-Vibes have you built?  I know of one other, from your demo video.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Colonel Angus on March 10, 2012, 02:10:07 PM
Sorry to hijack, seems like an appropriate thread for this question:

Just got my drill press and blank pcbs  ;D !!! I want to build this but my perfboard version was kinda a failure, passes signal with some tone change and a bit of diode clipping, but no oscillation. This circuit is fairly complex for my skill level, but it is my hope that pcb will be the answer as I am too frustrated to continue debugging the perf version.

So the question is:

On the ROG perf layout there are (2)TL062 ICs, where on the Andre Schaap/John Lyons PCB layout the (2)TL062s are replaced by (1)TL064. I have the 62s but no 64s. Can I use (2) TL062s instead of (1) TL064? (crosses fingers and hopes answer is yes)

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: artifus on March 10, 2012, 02:14:09 PM
(http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/37/UTC-TL062-pinout.jpg)

(http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/37/STMICROELECTRONICS-TL064-pinout.jpg)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Colonel Angus on March 10, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
http://www.sadtrombone.com  (http://www.sadtrombone.com) :icon_redface:

Thanks! I guess I'll have to order the TL064s or use the Solderman layout
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Colonel Angus on March 13, 2012, 09:13:28 AM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/divinec/trivibeboard.jpg)

Doesn't look as good as Solderman's board, but I think it will work. one spot needs repaired, shouldn't be too hard (famous last words). Toner transfer off magazine paper from Dell Color Laser set to hi-res, etched for an hour in Sodium Persulfate.

Now just waiting for my wire gauge drill bits to arrive from Amazon. Ace claims to sell them, but I talked to three different hardware stores in the city and no one had anything smaller than 1/16" :icon_evil:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Brainbender on March 16, 2012, 07:18:35 AM
I've built this pedal and it sounds good, but i'm not very impressed with the random ticking, background noise and some similar stuff. Tried NE5532, TL072 and few more with no luck. Always the same. :icon_rolleyes:
I'm thinking of Ross Phaser with Univibe mod.

What layout did you use?

Andre Schaap/John Lyons PCB

you may have a problem with the led..it will make a thump/tick noise..I used the 3 diodes in series and socketed them....the ross phaser with the univibe mod is a more versatile pedal (with the vibrato).if you dont mind 4 dpdt mini switches and 1 spdt....but the univibe function sounds a little weak...

thanks for advice! :icon_wink:
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Colonel Angus on April 16, 2012, 10:51:14 PM
:happydance: YES!!! Very good, after two miserable failures, SUCCESS!

Thank you John Lyons for a very nice PCB.

A very nice circuit, the sound is so squishy! Too late to make a drilling template tonight, will post pics later.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Colonel Angus on April 23, 2012, 01:07:38 PM
I know earlier in this thread there was some discussion about running two tri-vibes to make a Leslie pedal. My buddy loves the Tri-Vibe I built him and would like to have a stereo Leslie-ish version. Any advice? Would it just be a matter of running both boards off one input, or is there a more elegant solution? Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Yonatan on December 04, 2012, 03:16:14 PM
I recently got this breadboarded (just barely fit on one breadboard) and it worked right off the bat and sounds amazing!  The 1 issue is some "thumping" at the highest end of the depth pot, and most evident at higher rates.  I saw some reference throughout the thread to replacing the LED in the LFO with 3 diodes.  I will try this when I can (baby is sleeping now), but I'm wondering if this fixed the issue for anyone else who had this issue?

Update: Thumping completely fixed by using a good battery!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Yonatan on December 09, 2012, 03:51:08 AM
Just out of curiosity, I had a friend take a picture of the LFO of my tri-vibe with his scope:

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2116/trivibelfo.jpg)

Compared to the picture on ROG http://www.runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html (http://www.runoffgroove.com/tri-vibe.html), the shape looks to be spot on, but he told me that my wave is going into "minus," while the picture on ROG shows 2-7 volts positive.

I don't know how to read the scope.  Is my LFO going into minus?  As far as I can tell, my tri-vibe sounds just fine.

(I told him that my multimeter when set to DC mode is showing about 2-7 volts, and not showing any minus, but he told me that the multimeter is measuring "effective" voltage and would not show me if it was going into minus).

Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: juansolo on December 09, 2012, 04:51:26 AM
Another use for a pair of Tri-Vibes  (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=6743.0)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: axelrod on February 10, 2013, 06:46:30 PM
Excellent as usual from ROG . Only want more depth ? Have I missed something ?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: brdcrp on October 19, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Just a thought - if your tri-vibe thumps at higher speed/intensity - check your LED polarity. Mine's been on the shelf for a year or two, and just figured this out. duhhhhhh… works killer now!
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: John Lyons on October 19, 2013, 09:38:35 PM
Forgive me if I missed it in this thread but is there a way to get more depth form the
vibe and trem modes? The swirl mode has enough depth but the other two are on the edge of
being unusable except for the higher speeds.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Scruffie on October 19, 2013, 11:01:11 PM
Forgive me if I missed it in this thread but is there a way to get more depth form the
vibe and trem modes? The swirl mode has enough depth but the other two are on the edge of
being unusable except for the higher speeds.

I would say the best bet would be to add another 2 stages with an extra LM13600... using the uni-vibe cap values.

What voltage do you get at the LFO and after the resistor to pins 1 & 16, perhaps the V.Ref resistor values could be reduced without killing the chips.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: DrAlx on November 22, 2013, 01:47:22 PM
I don't know if the Tri-Vibe designer(s) still read this thread, but I am intrigued to know how the 15:1 cap ratio for the 2 all-pass sections was determined.  
I can appreciate that it is desirable to have the phase shift varying linearly with frequency over as broad a range of frequencies as possible.
However when I look at the maths, I come to the conclusion that you would need to make the all-pass stages identical in order to achieve that.
To see what I mean go to

http://www.wolframalpha.com

and paste in the following command

plot (180/pi) arg(((1-ix*1)/(1+ix*1))*(1-ix*15)/(1+ix*15)) from x  = 0 to 0.125

That's a phase-shift plot for 2 all-pass stages with caps in the ratio 1:15 as in the Tri-Vibe.
The horizontal axis represents frequency (normalised), and you can see that between x = 0 and 0.025 there is almost linear variation in phase from 0 to 45 degrees.

To get similar variation in phase between x = 0 and 0.025 using equal valued caps, you need to make each all-pass stage contribute 8 "units of phase shift"
rather than have one stage contribute 1 unit and the other contribute 15.  The graph for that case is given by this.

plot (180/pi) arg(((1-ix*8 )/(1+ix*8 ))*(1-ix*8 )/(1+ix*8 )) from x  = 0 to 0.125

You still get a phase shift of 45 degrees at around x = 0.025 but the graph is straighter over a much larger range of frequencies.
In fact when you use caps in that ratio 15:1, practically all the phase shift comes from the all-pass stage with the larger cap, so you've almost got 1 all-pass stage rather than 2.

So to my understanding, replacing the 1.5nF and 22nF caps by a pair of 12nF caps should give linear variation in phase over a wider range of frequencies..  
Am I missing something here, or is this too simplistic an understanding ?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: snk on February 04, 2020, 05:10:47 PM
Hello,
I am reviving this thread, because i have successfully built a Tri-Vibe (it's a great circuit ! Thank you so much, B Tremblay !), and I would have a couple questions for a better understanding of the circuit :

1- components :
I have used a NE5532 and a TL074 (instead of a TL062/TL064). It works fine so far, but I am wondering if it would be any better using a TL062/64 (I have also seen advices to use a LM324) ?
Any Pro/cons ?
Also, would a 13700 be any better than a 13600 (i have both in stock) ?


2- rate pot :
I didn't have a 500k with a C taper. So i used a 1M pot (with a C taper), with a 470K resistor (instead of a 820K).
Am I right assuming that the 500k pot is wired in parallel with the 820K resistor, and that it is the same to use a 1M pot with a 470K resistor?
My tests give me some good sounds and a nice rate on the pot, but i am wondering if my maths are correct ?


3- lfo thump :
Last, I noticed some audible LFO thumping with faster rates. I know that some tremolo and phasers circuits are prone to this, but this Tri-Vibe sounds so good that i am wondering if there is any way to reduce/remove it ? What can be the cause : the chips used ? Some components values ? I have read that some users experienced the same issue, but didn't find yet a way to fix this (I can live without, it is not a dealbreaker, but i prefer to tweak my circuit a bit as it is still unboxed)...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Mark Hammer on February 04, 2020, 05:35:44 PM
Hello,
I am reviving this thread, because i have successfully built a Tri-Vibe (it's a great circuit ! Thank you so much, B Tremblay !), and I would have a couple questions for a better understanding of the circuit :

1- components :
I have used a NE5532 and a TL074 (instead of a TL062/TL064). It works fine so far, but I am wondering if it would be any better using a TL062/64 (I have also seen advices to use a LM324) ?
Any Pro/cons ?
Also, would a 13700 be any better than a 13600 (i have both in stock) ?
I built one.  I doubt any of the chip differences you suggest would make an audible difference.  If you plan on using it with batteries, the TL06x chips would draw less current, but that's it.

Quote
2- rate pot :
I didn't have a 500k with a C taper. So i used a 1M pot (with a C taper), with a 470K resistor (instead of a 820K).
Am I right assuming that the 500k pot is wired in parallel with the 820K resistor, and that it is the same to use a 1M pot with a 470K resistor?
My tests give me some good sounds and a nice rate on the pot, but i am wondering if my maths are correct ?
For the full range of speeds in the stock unit, you might try your 1meg C-taper pot with a 1meg parallel resistor.  You can also use the 1M pot as is.  The only difference is that there will be some slower speeds available than the stock circuit.  Those will not be useful for the vibrato setting.

Quote
3- lfo thump :
Last, I noticed some audible LFO thumping with faster rates. I know that some tremolo and phasers circuits are prone to this, but this Tri-Vibe sounds so good that i am wondering if there is any way to reduce/remove it ? What can be the cause : the chips used ? Some components values ? I have read that some users experienced the same issue, but didn't find yet a way to fix this (I can live without, it is not a dealbreaker, but i prefer to tweak my circuit a bit as it is still unboxed)...
The seems to be control current `breakthrough`.  Maybe that`s a reason to use a TL062 for U2.

I find the circuit provides a nice swirl.  I packaged mine up in an enclosure with a custom-tweaked overdrive (TriVibe first) and named it "Box O`Robin" because it gives me my instant Robin Trower sound.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: snk on February 04, 2020, 05:44:26 PM
Thank you, Mark.

Quote
I find the circuit provides a nice swirl.
I'm loving slow modulations, phasers and vibe-ish effects, so this Tri-Vibe is really enjoyed here too :)

Quote
I built one.  I doubt any of the chip differences you suggest would make an audible difference.  If you plan on using it with batteries, the TL06x chips would draw less current, but that's it.
Ok. The TL06x was my main interrogation (I had read on the official page that the 5532 and the 13600 were preferred over other alternatives, so this is what i used, but the only quad opamp i had in stock is the TL074). I was wondering if it had any drawbacks soundwise (i am not using batteries), so i understand the reply is "no" ;)

Quote
For the full range of speeds in the stock unit, you might try your 1meg C-taper pot with a 1meg parallel resistor.  You can also use the 1M pot as is.  The only difference is that there will be some slower speeds available than the stock circuit.  Those will not be useful for the vibrato setting.
Ok. So my calculation was wrong ? Slower speeds are fine (for the phaser mode), so i might try that.


Quote
The seems to be control current `breakthrough`.  Maybe that`s a reason to use a TL062 for U2.
Ok, I will order a couple TL062 (as well as some LM324, as some users reported a clean, thump-free operation with them), and see what happens.
I see that the circuit already features a good circuit protection (with the 470µF cap and the small resistor).
I used a 100R resistor instead of a 22R : could it come from that ?
Would adding a very small ceramic cap across 9V & Gnd improve things ?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: snk on February 04, 2020, 06:05:35 PM
Out of curiosity, since there is a phase mode, is there any way to tweak the resonance ?
(I like it like that, but i'm curious)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Mark Hammer on February 04, 2020, 08:21:29 PM
The thing about  Vibe-like circuits is that, while they may be phasers, in principle, the phase shift is so broadly distributed that adding feedback/resonance does nothing of any use or even audibility.  You will note that you NEVER see a feedback control on commercial Uni-Vibe units.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: snk on February 05, 2020, 01:25:02 AM
Quote
  You will note that you NEVER see a feedback control on commercial Uni-Vibe units.
Indeed  :)
... and it sounds good as it is.

The strange thing is that now i don't hear any more ticking/thump !?
It's a good thing, but somewhat curious...
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jonny.reckless on February 05, 2020, 03:19:29 AM
I really like the Tri-Vibe. It was the inspiration for the Reckless Vibe design. I like the way they do the allpass filters with OTAs. They're cheap, consistent from unit to unit, and easy to use. I did try to improve on the design a bit by using 4 stages, generating a true sinusoidal LF with a quadrature oscillator, and using bipolar junction transistors for the frequency exponentiation, but these were all ideas derived from or inspired by the Tri-Vibe I built a few years previously. I do use some feedback around the allpass filters which gives the effect a bit more grit and intensity.
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119211.msg1146780#msg1146780 (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119211.msg1146780#msg1146780)
https://postimg.cc/5HzsFfYy (https://postimg.cc/5HzsFfYy)
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: snk on February 05, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
Thank you for the hint, Jonny.
I'm listening to the video right now. What do the 4 pots do in your design [edit : found at the end of the video !]? From what I see, last year you wrote in the thread that you may have new, smaller and enhanced PCBs for sale ?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jonny.reckless on February 05, 2020, 03:12:54 PM
Sadly I haven't yet finished that new PCB. I'm still working on simplifying and shrinking the design as much as possible, and I haven't had the time to work on it as much as I would have liked. I'll post here when I do finally get it ready though.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: tubegeek on February 06, 2020, 02:55:33 AM
Schematic question:

Caps C24 C18 C27 C26 C7: are they bypasses "at the socket" for IC 3A, 3B, 5A, 5B? If so, then why C14, C19, C17? And what does the 5th one do? Bypass near the Depth control?
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: jonny.reckless on February 06, 2020, 03:12:04 AM
They bypass VMID to GND locally around the allpass filters to ensure good HF decoupling of VMID (which is a virtual signal ground) to the actual ground. They complement the power supply bypass capacitors. It might be a touch overkill but I've always been wary with split rail "virtual ground" designs because you can never get the signal ground to be a low impedance at high frequencies unless you use a 4 layer board, and transient currents cause the virtual ground to bounce which then gets injected in to the signal path when it's dereferenced to real ground. I generally put the vibe in front of the distortion pedal so any little transients get amplified up by a lot, so I want the whole thing to be as quiet and glitch free as possible. Clicks, pops and glitches should be 90dB down compared with the guitar so even with a high gain amp you don't get annoying ticks or pops. I normally prefer twin voltage rails using either a switched cap or inverting boost converter. I always use the top layer of the PCB as a ground plane.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: tubegeek on February 06, 2020, 03:19:47 AM
I normally prefer twin voltage rails using either a switched cap or inverting boost converter.

I thought your preferred method was using an opamp as a rail splitter, especially for small power amplifiers?

No wait, that was me.
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: chemosis on February 26, 2020, 09:05:35 PM
how does one increase the depth because my vibrato setting is weak just like in the various demos. just need a little more depth. not much
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: chemosis on February 26, 2020, 09:07:45 PM
you guys don't find the vibrato setting a little weak?? like in the demos. mine definetly is. how can one have a little more depth??
Title: Re: New at runoffgroove.com: Tri-Vibe
Post by: Mark Hammer on February 26, 2020, 10:41:34 PM
Vibrato needs to be faster, at least medium fast, in order to be audible.  It's a basic perceptual principle as espoused by Weber, Fechner, and later Stevens.

The slow speeds that will work just fine for phasing and uni-vibe do diddley-squat for vibrato when you lift the dry signal.  generally only the upper half of the speed range does much useful.  The amount of pitch-shift that could be audible at very slow speeds would send you running for the depth control to turn it way down if you increased the speed.

Blame your nervous system for that, not the design.