http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=658092
Has the guy lost his marbles or is he so far out there I just don't get it?
Oops looks like someone beat me to it in the members forum.
OH MY!?! i am speechless. :o
Here's the thing. Suppose you make your living off a few relatively simple circuits. There's a few things you can do to assure the viability of your product line. One is to make it hard to decipher such that no one can replicate it. You can do that by erasing part identifiers. You can do it by encapsulating the board in epoxy. You can also try savagely going after any and all cloners. None of that seems to be sufficient to preclude cloners and pirates. After having considered all options, it seems to me that Zach did some out of the box (but not out of the 1590B box! ;D ) thinking, and came to the conclusion that the best way to protect a circuit is to have it not be any particular circuit. And that is what the prototype seems to be: no circuit in particular. One of the smartest moves I've seen any boutique builder take in a while.
Looks like a great way to avoid warranty claims! ;)
"Mr Vex, my pedal doesn't work."
"Really? Well, you built it!"
I think he built this thing for ... us?
The "open source" thing is not new in the pedal world. Joe Gagan was doing this 10 years ago, releasing schematics of his commercial products so people could build their own. Not that he was a model of business success, but it had nothing to do with that.
It reminds me of nothing more than a boutique version of Line 6's tonecore pedals - drop in different module for whatever effect you'd prefer, using the same body to house whatever effect module you like. What it has is the sheer adjustability and individual tailoring that Line 6 can't compete with, at least not at the price they want to sell you gear at.
Zack's idea is pretty cool. I imagine it won't be long before someone's piping up about how to do something similar for themsleves here.
Jacob
I love that thread on Harmony Central. It grew about 30 pages in two days.
Quote from: soggybag on January 13, 2010, 10:39:18 PM
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=658092
Has the guy lost his marbles or is he so far out there I just don't get it?
It`s "Invent-O-Box" (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81523.0),
not:
in Veto
or:
in VetRo... :icon_lol:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41133&g2_serialNumber=1)
Line 6 tone cores sucked, completely bombed, and they cost no more than £40 a pop. That breadboard-in-a-box is over £150 and even then all you can use it for is a bloody volume control!
I'm a big ZVex fan, but this is just a bit silly isn't it? Biggest rip-off since the EHX Signal Pad.
Quote from: DougH on January 14, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm)
Nice example for the difference between a virtual web-paper,
and real-world hardware-box...
QuoteLine 6 tone cores sucked, completely bombed, and they cost no more than £40 a pop.
I can't disagree with the cost, but I quite like the Verbzilla and a couple of the other time-based ones...and they are still for sale all over the place.
It's a pretty weird move. Then again can't fault the guy for making his vision happen. It's obviously something that was not calculated to make the most money. Though he's not losing money at $300 for the basic thing. I really like the idea that it invites the DIY crew to come up with modules that can be plugged in to it. I just doubt it's really going to take off at that price.
I'd really like to see the guy branch into a BB sized box. I think he could do something great with one of those.
IMHO, the guy needs to develop new signature circuits instead of relying on YASHO (Yet Another Super Hard On). A more realistic pricepoint would help as well.
That modular system by RG looks great, I didn't realise he already had PCB layouts and all for this project. Looks like a great idea, try some different envelope followers/detectors and some filters easily, hmmm..
Quote from: Ry on January 14, 2010, 08:59:50 PM
QuoteLine 6 tone cores sucked, completely bombed, and they cost no more than £40 a pop.
I can't disagree with the cost, but I quite like the Verbzilla and a couple of the other time-based ones...and they are still for sale all over the place.
Not sure what "sucked" and "bombed" means, unless it means they aren't selling well. I wouldn't know about that but overall I think they are a fine product. I don't have a lot of use for the pop-in modules though. I bought one separate but am not going to do that again, and don't see much advantage to that unless you're just really broke or something. I'd rather have them all ready to go at all times rather than having to swap them around.
Quote from: puretube on January 14, 2010, 04:23:39 PM
Quote from: DougH on January 14, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm)
Nice example for the difference between a virtual web-paper,
and real-world hardware-box...
See, that's the funny thing about DIY, Ton. People take these "virtual web-papers" and make "real-world hardware-boxes" from them, themselves! Cool innit?
Quote from: DougH on January 15, 2010, 07:32:09 AM
Quote from: Ry on January 14, 2010, 08:59:50 PM
QuoteLine 6 tone cores sucked, completely bombed, and they cost no more than £40 a pop.
I can't disagree with the cost, but I quite like the Verbzilla and a couple of the other time-based ones...and they are still for sale all over the place.
Not sure what "sucked" and "bombed" means, unless it means they aren't selling well. I wouldn't know about that but overall I think they are a fine product. I don't have a lot of use for the pop-in modules though. I bought one separate but am not going to do that again, and don't see much advantage to that unless you're just really broke or something. I'd rather have them all ready to go at all times rather than having to swap them around.
Yea, sorry about the poor vocab, I was very tired.
I meant that the whole swapping out modules thing just didn't work, it was useless! (that's the sucked part)
And it wasn't hugely successfull; I don't know one person who ever bought one, or even considered it, people just didn't seem interested, and I know a few Line 6 whores too (the kind who go Guitar -> L6 Pod -> L6 Spider), even they didn't pick up on it. (that's the bombed part)
Sorry about the confusion :)
Quote from: T1bbles on January 15, 2010, 09:37:17 AM
And it wasn't hugely successfull; I don't know one person who ever bought one, or even considered it, people just didn't seem interested, and I know a few Line 6 whores too (the kind who go Guitar -> L6 Pod -> L6 Spider), even they didn't pick up on it. (that's the bombed part)
Well now you do, because I've bought quite a few them as others on here have done as well. :icon_wink: :icon_wink:
I think they sound great and am very happy with them overall. But I agree that I don't find the "modularity" aspect all that useful. I've seen a lot of "modular" products come and go over the years, starting with MPC guitars back in the 70's. But none of them have really caught on on any large scale that I have seen. Putting my "engineer" hat on, I think modular stuff is a cool idea. But putting my "musician" hat on, not so much. One size just does not fit all when it comes to sound, which is why I've never been too interested in multi-fx. For me, individual pedals on a pedal board are about as "modular" as I want to get. But as I mentioned in the members section thread, kudos to Zvex for giving it a try.
Just because all I've introduced so far is three modules (in two weeks before NAMM that's all the prototypes we had time for) doesn't mean I'm stopping there. We're going to make some pretty fun stuff for this box. I'm willing to work on it as a "work in progress" for as long as it takes to get it to a point where everyone who is interested in DIY and circuit bending/tweeking will want to screw around with one.
How nice is it to have 16 pots of various values (1M, 500K, 250K, 100K, 50K, 20K, 10K, 5K, 2K, 1K) all socketed and ready to use, with spares and the ability to move them around, and after you've built up a circuit you can take it to practice to see if it works in a band environment? Plus you can tweak it while you stomp it. It has special brackets that hold the lid above the knobs and switches during the post-assembly phase so you can check everything and do your final tweaking.
Check this out:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/namm-a-mad-professor-of-the-stompbox-goes-open-source/
Looks like a pretty cool idea, I'd be interested to know more about it anyhow.
What it kinda reminds me off in that sense is the typical prototyping breadboard system lots of you guys use for developing circuits. This is just in a package that allows you to use it on a pedalboard and get some real world use out of that circuit rather than just playing with it in the workshop.
I think it's a great idea Vex, and I hope it goes well for you. Part of why I'm into this DIY stuff is to keep the price down on my effects though, so it's hard to imagine me getting one. But for all those guys who don't care to buy and drill and paint and decal their enclosures, or even for the guys who have no idea what a soldering iron is - this thing will be a crazy idea and an awesome experiment.
Jacob
The article indicates a degree of expandability. Now the use of 1590B boxes is starting to make sense. I gather each "expand-a-block" is another 1590B?
I can actually see me buying one of these, despite my early criticisms, I can actually see how this could work for me. Especially with an oscillator module (a Fuzz Factory would do) at the beginning and a couple of expand-a-blocks, could make something like the MFOS Weird Sound Generator, but more customization friendly. Yep, I think this could make quite a capable synth-like bit of kit ;D
I think it's a neat idea. Sounds like fun actually.
OK, now who's up for the challenge of making a DIY inventobox? :icon_cool:
guys, i gotta say, i had the opportunity to chat with Zach at the show today about this pedal (he gave me a complete rundown) and I have to give him huge props on it. It really is incredibly well designed and thought out with plenty of options for expandability. I think in a perfect world any DIY-er would want something like this for experimenting, and I think anyone that nay-says the idea is just a little jealous of not being able to make this themselves in such a compact design. As for the price? A little steep if you ask me, but if you can sell some oranges on the street corner for a couple weeks you should be able to get it in no time. Well done ZVEX, well done. I'll probably be getting mine this summer.
Quote from: CynicalMan on January 15, 2010, 04:45:38 PM
OK, now who's up for the challenge of making a DIY inventobox? :icon_cool:
A basic version really wouldn't be that hard to diy... I'm actually considering doing it myself (albiet in one large box). There won't be a little light (well, maybe I will put on in there...) and no specially crafted box, but putting a breadboard, some knobs and a switch in a couple boxes ain't too difficult. What I worry about is components falling out of the breadboard and the breadboard eventually losing it's grip on components as it gets worn in. I know he has it come with a couple pieces of foam, but I don't know if that will really work. Plus, when squashing down components with foam I fear that component leads will get squished and might touch and mess up the circuit. I'm more considering building one as a way to test out circuits at band practice. I often find things I think sound good one my amp at home when playing by myself don't fit as well in a band context.
Are his circuits going to be available for people who
haven't bought an inventobox? it'd be easy/cheap to just pop one into your own enclosure!
Total sales = 1
Thanks Mom!
Quote from: daverdave on January 15, 2010, 12:28:36 PM
Looks like a pretty cool idea, I'd be interested to know more about it anyhow.
This ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMbPdKryIHc)...
Quote from: puretube on January 14, 2010, 04:23:39 PM
Quote from: DougH on January 14, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fxbus/fxbus.htm)
Nice example for the difference between a virtual web-paper,
and real-world hardware-box...
Yeah, none of these "virtual web-paper" things ever get built.
I really doubt anyone has ever built any of R.G.'s ideas.
Sorry, I can't find the facepalm smiley....
Quote from: puretube on January 25, 2010, 03:40:44 PM
This ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMbPdKryIHc)...
No, you mean this (http://www.killertone.com/)
Quote from: dano12 on January 25, 2010, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: puretube on January 25, 2010, 03:40:44 PM
This ? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMbPdKryIHc)...
No, you mean this (http://www.killertone.com/)
(http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/facepalm.gif)
ooh, watching the youtube clip i thought - wow, a breadboard with knobs. These are pedals for people that have run out of ideas gow to play guitar so spend their days hunting tones. Nothing wrong with that but the whole point of a guitar pedal seems to have turned full circle and disappeared firmly up its own backside. All kudos to the guy for the copy he generates, I'd love to sell a basic 60's fuzz pedal with 12 components in it for $200 cos its been painted by my 7 year daughter. This sort of boutique legend status is not built on snake oil and heresay. thats a lot of pots on that box and that has to cost!
If anyone is that geeky enough to learn how to use this, then they are most likely wanting to make it themselves from bread/vero/pcb anyway.
Can't see the USP myself.
He's come dangerously close to providing an analog equivilant to a digital multi effects processor...
Good luck to you!
Quote from: Al Heeley on January 25, 2010, 05:19:25 PM
He's come danerously close to providing an analog equivilant to a digital multi effects processor!
Good luck to you!
I don't think you can get closer than this http://www.carlmartin.com/product_quattro.htm
No matter what you think of this new product, Z Vex is a very clever guy. :icon_cool:
Quote from: FlyingZ on January 25, 2010, 12:36:07 PM
Total sales = 1
Thanks Mom!
Unfounded cynicism is the most profoundly destructive waste of time a person can engage in. We sold 70 the first day at NAMM. There's only 500 in the first run... they'll be gone and we'll be back-ordered until we can make more. Why? Because we've already been contacted by 4 schools about providing them as teaching tools. One teacher named Saura brought 15 of her students from a workshop she teaches at the University of California San Diego to my booth so they could see the thing first-hand. There's a story about what she's trying to do here: http://www.calit2.net/newsroom/article.php?id=1513 She's writing a grant proposal that will set up an actual class dedicated to... you got it... building guitar pedals.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on January 15, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
The article indicates a degree of expandability. Now the use of 1590B boxes is starting to make sense. I gather each "expand-a-block" is another 1590B?
Yes. Each expando-box will be another 1590B.
Quote from: zachary vex on January 25, 2010, 06:52:50 PM
Quote from: FlyingZ on January 25, 2010, 12:36:07 PM
Total sales = 1
Thanks Mom!
Unfounded cynicism is the most profoundly destructive waste of time a person can engage in. We sold 70 the first day at NAMM. There's only 500 in the first run... they'll be gone and we'll be back-ordered until we can make more. Why? Because we've already been contacted by 4 schools about providing them as teaching tools. One teacher named Saura brought 15 of her students from a workshop she teaches at the University of California San Diego to my booth so they could see the thing first-hand. There's a story about what she's trying to do here: http://www.calit2.net/newsroom/article.php?id=1513 She's writing a grant proposal that will set up an actual class dedicated to... you got it... building guitar pedals.
Taking advantage of the ignorant is nothing to be proud of. Other then that congratulations on the sales.
Lets wait until this thing is really released before making unfounded statements.