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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: R.G. on March 08, 2010, 01:11:01 PM

Title: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 08, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
I've been messing with mods of the Neovibe, and have some new descendents of the line that started back in the mid 90s.

The top entry at http://www.geofex.com (http://www.geofex.com) is an overview. The middle one is only slightly different from what you can get today at GGG. The biggest difference is using film 1uF caps instead of electros, now that we can get 1uFs that will fit. The same board can be used for electros by bending the leads. 

The bottom board is the biggest pads, spaces and traces that I could force myself to do.  :icon_biggrin:  Basically, it's set up for etching and soldering using stone axes for tools. It's hard to get any wider pads and traces in there. Going to jumper wires would help maybe. Haven't messed with that much.

The top board is a drop in fit for the screw bosses in a crybaby shell. As you can see, this is NOT a trivial PCB project. The resistors all stand on end, and the traces are 0.012"/ 0.3mm, and the caps are electros for smallest size. This would be a journeyman  level build, not a first time build, so.

They haven't been checked for errors so those specific layouts may not work - that's a hint that you might be very frustrated if you tried to use those layouts to etch from...  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: MikeH on March 08, 2010, 01:42:21 PM
The top board is a drop in fit for the screw bosses in a crybaby shell.

Oh, that is very cool
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: bean on March 08, 2010, 01:57:30 PM
Looks great. My curiosity is definitely piqued by the wah-edition. Some of those traces are a little scary thin for mindless PnP transfers, but with patience I think they won't pose much of a problem. Looking forward to seeing more progress! 
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 08, 2010, 03:23:30 PM
I'd really like to get some beginners' opinions on the bigger one. Is that something that's even interesting? It will still fit inside a 1590DD box, which is a good size for the number of controls. or is 5.0" x 3.8" (127 x 94 mm) just too big?

For the tiny one, it probably needs either photo etching or professional making in a PCB house. It might be that J.D. over at GGG could be talked into doing a panel of them if he was suitably incented...  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: MikeH on March 08, 2010, 03:30:20 PM
RG, is there a pcb transfer o fthe smallest one that I could print out and look at?
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 08, 2010, 03:59:34 PM
I'm detecting that there's not a lot of interest in the big, fat, easy to make one, yes?   :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on March 08, 2010, 05:20:51 PM
I actually prefer the larger one, it's just that a direct fit to the crybaby shell is so much more tempting :)
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: bean on March 08, 2010, 05:27:41 PM

For the tiny one, it probably needs either photo etching or professional making in a PCB house. It might be that J.D. over at GGG could be talked into doing a panel of them if he was suitably incented...  :icon_lol:

I'd be willing to test out a couple transfers if you want feedback. I can do traditional iron method and also using my new laminator (which actually works pretty well).
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: ACS on March 08, 2010, 05:40:57 PM
I'd be willing to test out a couple transfers if you want feedback. I can do traditional iron method and also using my new laminator (which actually works pretty well).
Sorry for getting OT - laminator: first time I've heard of this for transfer, sounds fascinating... Any links?

RG, personally, I think that a) I'd struggle to get a good clean transfer with the really small one, but (like others) am massively intrigued with getting it into a crybaby shell, and b) the big one is probably too big for my likings - I've got around 15 various builds under my belt, so not massively experienced, but even with my mediocre soldering skills, I feel that it's overkill... 

The caveat would be if the big one had direct mounting for footswitch and pots (with subsequently slightly tighter layout), then the size would be perfect  :icon_cool:

Cheers
Aidan
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: MikeH on March 08, 2010, 06:51:28 PM
I can't get a feel for whether or not I could do a successful transfer on the small layout without being able to print and examine the traces.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: head_spaz on March 08, 2010, 11:44:18 PM
I really like the second one the best... because I prefer using film caps. And it looks DIY doable.

The small is very nice, but I can't picture wasting a wah enclosure to control it. Would the prefered use be for speed or depth control? If I needed remote control... I'd prefer a rackmounted version with an external multi-treadle pedal.... one rocker for speed... one for depth... and one for regen.

The big PCB is ok. Could probably solder it together using an oxy/acetylene torch.
But put that sucker in a DD box and you'd have to use an external transformer. Not my style.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 09, 2010, 09:10:20 AM
I did the revised layouts based on the comments in another thread that the stock version of the Neovibe was too hard to build and solder. So I thought -OK, let's just make it *big* and let the parts fall where they may.

I find it somewhat curious that the layout that gets the most comments is the smallest, hardest to build one.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: MikeH on March 09, 2010, 02:28:41 PM
I find it somewhat curious that the layout that gets the most comments is the smallest, hardest to build one.

You know we love a challenge.  What fun would this stuff be if it was easy?  ;)
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: kymar on March 10, 2010, 06:39:34 AM
Nice work!
But, i think, practical application only one will find - the small one. 
About power supply - is it so necessary to leave this big caps and bridge? it`s simple to use 24v power adapter.
And what about new mods? Such as using op amps in sound (signal) path (as in voodoolab micrоvibe) or using optocouplers instead of LDRs and lamp.
It must be more interesting.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: solderman on March 10, 2010, 11:48:35 AM
The small one will be no problem to etch and build if you use the fotoresist UV developer method. I have successfolly made 0,2 mm traces with this method. Below is my layout for the ROG Tri Vibe Traces are 0,3 pads are 1,5/0,9mm and spacing to pour is 0,4 mm

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/1.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/2.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/3.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/4.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Tri Vibe/5.jpg)

Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 10, 2010, 12:19:12 PM
The small one will be no problem to etch and build if you use the fotoresist UV developer method. I have successfolly made 0,2 mm traces with this method. Below is my layout for the ROG Tri Vibe Traces are 0,3 pads are 1,5/0,9mm and spacing to pour is 0,4 mm
You're right - it's not a problem for photo methods. It is a little bit of a problem for home builders, because it requires a top-side ground plane to make it work as is, but maybe I can eliminate that with some work.

But I was interested in the other end of the spectrum - how valuable to the community getting a bigger, fatter version is. Based on some comments on the existing GGG-supplied Neovibe layout about it being too hard to solder, I thought I'd sample the user preferences, and offer two choices. One is a bigger, fatter, easier to make and solder one, another a smaller, tighter, more bleeding-edge layout.

What I've found is that no one seems to want a fatter, easier to build layout unless it also automates pot wiring and so on and is specific to an enclosure, kind of an easy-kit for an enclosure. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's not much interest in a big, open, simple layout of the Neovibe. I'm guessing that there's more interest, given the general rate of infection with BUMS, in fancy mods and updates of several kinds.

Izzat correct?
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: MikeH on March 10, 2010, 12:40:36 PM
The small one will be no problem to etch and build if you use the fotoresist UV developer method. I have successfolly made 0,2 mm traces with this method. Below is my layout for the ROG Tri Vibe Traces are 0,3 pads are 1,5/0,9mm and spacing to pour is 0,4 mm
You're right - it's not a problem for photo methods. It is a little bit of a problem for home builders, because it requires a top-side ground plane to make it work as is, but maybe I can eliminate that with some work.

But I was interested in the other end of the spectrum - how valuable to the community getting a bigger, fatter version is. Based on some comments on the existing GGG-supplied Neovibe layout about it being too hard to solder, I thought I'd sample the user preferences, and offer two choices. One is a bigger, fatter, easier to make and solder one, another a smaller, tighter, more bleeding-edge layout.

What I've found is that no one seems to want a fatter, easier to build layout unless it also automates pot wiring and so on and is specific to an enclosure, kind of an easy-kit for an enclosure. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's not much interest in a big, open, simple layout of the Neovibe. I'm guessing that there's more interest, given the general rate of infection with BUMS, in fancy mods and updates of several kinds.

Izzat correct?

I'm actually not as much interested in the small one because of the size, what really gets me stoked is that it's set up to go into a wah enclosure.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: Barcode80 on March 11, 2010, 02:10:43 PM
The small one will be no problem to etch and build if you use the fotoresist UV developer method. I have successfolly made 0,2 mm traces with this method. Below is my layout for the ROG Tri Vibe Traces are 0,3 pads are 1,5/0,9mm and spacing to pour is 0,4 mm
You're right - it's not a problem for photo methods. It is a little bit of a problem for home builders, because it requires a top-side ground plane to make it work as is, but maybe I can eliminate that with some work.

But I was interested in the other end of the spectrum - how valuable to the community getting a bigger, fatter version is. Based on some comments on the existing GGG-supplied Neovibe layout about it being too hard to solder, I thought I'd sample the user preferences, and offer two choices. One is a bigger, fatter, easier to make and solder one, another a smaller, tighter, more bleeding-edge layout.

What I've found is that no one seems to want a fatter, easier to build layout unless it also automates pot wiring and so on and is specific to an enclosure, kind of an easy-kit for an enclosure. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's not much interest in a big, open, simple layout of the Neovibe. I'm guessing that there's more interest, given the general rate of infection with BUMS, in fancy mods and updates of several kinds.

Izzat correct?

I'm actually not as much interested in the small one because of the size, what really gets me stoked is that it's set up to go into a wah enclosure.
+1, i ALWAYA prefer larger traces, even though I've got hundreds of builds under my belt, because it just makes things easier. but bolt on fit is way cool.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: JBK1 on March 13, 2010, 02:37:32 PM
R.G.  I believe I know which thread you are referring to, I am waiting on a ForumVibe board from him. (Its been three weeks). I didn't know about the Neovibe until after I  placed my order. I plan to build the NeoVibe also , maybe I'll build them at the same time. I would be glad to share my thoughts with you about the ease or difficulty of the builds. I am currently finishing my first build, but don't consider myself a beginner. I am a Biomedical Equipment Tech by trade, I have experience in electronic repairs, but not much experience in building pedals.
I built my own board for my first build and getting ready to build another board, both are small, not very complicated layouts. I was considering buying the Neo board from GGG, but I may give etching the Neo my self, (If I can get a copy of the layout).
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 13, 2010, 02:57:06 PM
I've been messing with the Crybaby bolt in some. I got the single-pot mod on it, managed to use a few jumpers instead of a ground plane so it's one sided, and I'm working on making the board fit the plug-on connector in the middle generation of wah pedals. Don't know if that'll pan out, but it's neat if it does.

Hmmm... how about Cry-Vibe-y?  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: head_spaz on March 13, 2010, 03:49:18 PM
I jist don't git it.... What is the dang deal with this CRY-Viby dude?
Is the idear to 'liminate the LFO using the rocker to sweep it manually? And... wouldn't that sound kind of like a wah?
Or is the treadle supposed to vary the LFO rate, or depth, or regen, or does it just reset the stinkin' blinkin' clock on my VCR?
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 13, 2010, 06:23:01 PM
I jist don't git it.... What is the dang deal with this CRY-Viby dude?
Is the idear to 'liminate the LFO using the rocker to sweep it manually? And... wouldn't that sound kind of like a wah?
Or is the treadle supposed to vary the LFO rate, or depth, or regen, or does it just reset the stinkin' blinkin' clock on my VCR?
The rocker changes the speed of the LFO - like the foot rocker on the original did.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 14, 2010, 10:48:57 AM
....and since people tend to forget, or else never knew in the first place.....

The original Uni-Vibe was called the "Resly-Tone", and was intended to provide an alternative to lugging around a big heavy Leslie rotating speaker.  (There is a curious phenomenon in which Japanese circuits are unintentionally spelled with pronunciation errors intact, and this is one of them.  How it happens is something that intrigues me.  IN one of the old Japanese DIY books I have scans of, there is a flanger project that is titled "Franger".)

One of the distinguishing features of mechanical rotating speakers like the Leslie is that the transition from slow to fast speed is gradual, rather than immediate.  The use of a rocker-treadle speed control (whether by an externally-mounted control or by building the whole circuit into a wah-style chassis) permits the user of an all electronic (rather than mechanical) effect to mimic the ramp-up and ramp-down.
(http://www.guitars-of-love.com/images/gol_repairs/resly_tone_RT-18/Resltone_RT18_top_view.jpg)
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: RedHouse on March 16, 2010, 03:19:57 PM
....and since people tend to forget, or else never knew in the first place.....

The original Uni-Vibe was called the "Resly-Tone", and was intended to provide an alternative to lugging around a big heavy Leslie rotating speaker.  (There is a curious phenomenon in which Japanese circuits are unintentionally spelled with pronunciation errors intact, and this is one of them.  How it happens is something that intrigues me.  IN one of the old Japanese DIY books I have scans of, there is a flanger project that is titled "Franger".)

One of the distinguishing features of mechanical rotating speakers like the Leslie is that the transition from slow to fast speed is gradual, rather than immediate.  The use of a rocker-treadle speed control (whether by an externally-mounted control or by building the whole circuit into a wah-style chassis) permits the user of an all electronic (rather than mechanical) effect to mimic the ramp-up and ramp-down.
(http://www.guitars-of-love.com/images/gol_repairs/resly_tone_RT-18/Resltone_RT18_top_view.jpg)

No, the Resley Tone was a different model.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: RedHouse on March 16, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
.... The biggest difference is using film 1uF caps instead of electros, now that we can get 1uFs that will fit. The same board can be used for electros by bending the leads. 

....The top board is a drop in fit for the screw bosses in a crybaby shell. As you can see, this is NOT a trivial PCB project. The resistors all stand on end, and the traces are 0.012"/ 0.3mm, and the caps are electros for smallest size. This would be a journeyman  level build, not a first time build, so.

A little late to the show on these too RG, my Classic Vibe and Vibe Baby have had that going-on for 8 years now!. Kinda like trying to rewrite history a little.

http://classicamplification.net/Effects/ClassicVibe.htm (http://classicamplification.net/Effects/ClassicVibe.htm)



Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: jacobyjd on March 16, 2010, 03:29:43 PM
.... The biggest difference is using film 1uF caps instead of electros, now that we can get 1uFs that will fit. The same board can be used for electros by bending the leads. 

....The top board is a drop in fit for the screw bosses in a crybaby shell. As you can see, this is NOT a trivial PCB project. The resistors all stand on end, and the traces are 0.012"/ 0.3mm, and the caps are electros for smallest size. This would be a journeyman  level build, not a first time build, so.

A little late to the show on these too RG, my Classic Vibe and Vibe Baby have had that going-on for 8 years now!. Kinda like trying to rewrite history a little.

http://classicamplification.net/Effects/ClassicVibe.htm (http://classicamplification.net/Effects/ClassicVibe.htm)





Yes, let's all give someone a hard time for finally updating their free layouts  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: RedHouse on March 16, 2010, 03:57:34 PM

Yes, let's all give someone a hard time for finally updating their free layouts  :icon_rolleyes:

Not to mention one calling it their own ideas.

The neovibe is what it is, likewise the Classic Vibe and Vibe Baby are what they are, and done long before these latest threads.

Vibe Baby from 2003:
(http://classicamplification.net/Effects/ClassicVibe_example.jpg)

and my latest Vibe Baby's:
(http://classicamplification.net/Effects/VibeBaby_W6_board_02.jpg)

the "free" ForumVibe with the upgraded cap ideas...and... it fits into a wah shell:
http://classicamplification.net/forumvibe (http://classicamplification.net/forumvibe)  

Not only has all this been done before this latest "update" you speak of, the "Vibe Baby" is my trademark and "Cry Vibe" is a trademark held by JC Maillet, so to all of a sudden have all these "ideas", post them and then call it an upgrade to the Neovibe (specially using "Cry-Vibe-y") whaaa? ...what's your point jacobyjd?.   :icon_mrgreen:


Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: jacobyjd on March 16, 2010, 04:19:09 PM
I suppose my point is that making such a big deal about how 'outdated' someone's layouts are really doesn't do anyone any good. Dude's just posting some updates. Nothing to see here, except that it's another layout for a vibe that some people might find interesting, and is now a little more current.

You'd be served just as well to dog everyone who posts a new tubescreamer vero layout on any given forum because they're making a copy that someone else has made before, albeit a bit differently.

Just strikes me as a dick move to bust on someone in a public forum for updating their work and posting it for anyone to use, whether it's cutting-edge or not.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: RedHouse on March 16, 2010, 04:41:22 PM
...for updating their work and posting it for anyone to use...

So you must have missed this...
I have a layout of the Crybaby-specific neovibe layout that I have modestly named the Cry-Vibey

or this...
...Hmmm... how about Cry-Vibe-y?  :icon_eek:

or this...
...Putting it into a Crybaby shell and at the same time preserving all the controls and options

or this new idea about using MPS Darlingons and a Bouns footprint:
(hello ForumVibe)
- all transistors except the first three are integrated darlingtons, like MPSA13/14, and there is one more than the stock list of darlingtons
- it has trimmers for the mix adjust and DC bias on the bulb  on board, same footprint as the Bourns 3306 trimmers.




Yeah,  must be over-reacting.  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on March 16, 2010, 05:16:08 PM
Please see http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83220.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83220.0)
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: GP on March 16, 2010, 05:52:33 PM
or maybe... please stop whingeing about someone giving away their own personal time and personal knowledge for no personal gain that might upset the apple cart for your product that no one has heard of.

Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: jacobyjd on March 16, 2010, 06:20:12 PM
...for updating their work and posting it for anyone to use...

So you must have missed this...
I have a layout of the Crybaby-specific neovibe layout that I have modestly named the Cry-Vibey

or this...
...Hmmm... how about Cry-Vibe-y?  :icon_eek:

or this...
...Putting it into a Crybaby shell and at the same time preserving all the controls and options

or this new idea about using MPS Darlingons and a Bouns footprint:
(hello ForumVibe)
- all transistors except the first three are integrated darlingtons, like MPSA13/14, and there is one more than the stock list of darlingtons
- it has trimmers for the mix adjust and DC bias on the bulb  on board, same footprint as the Bourns 3306 trimmers.




Yeah,  must be over-reacting.  :icon_lol:

Not sure what you think I'm missing--doesn't look like he's claiming that any of it is new to me. Might be new to the layout, but it looks like he's simply incorporating established updates that are already in existence. For free. For anyone to use.

I could see some beef with the name IF it didn't pretty much follow what it is. crybaby + vibe. There are only a few places you can go with that  :icon_wink:

I guess my point is that I don't see what the heck you have to gain by bashing it. It's time you could be spending finding something better than a tired, old (but still very nice) effect to develop a design for, then peddle. Additionally, half the basis for your negativity doesn't even seem to be in existence here. You're implying that he thinks it's the latest and greatest...ok...even if he thought so, I don't see him claiming that. Even if he did, all you have to do is point out that it's not, then move on, no big deal, but it appears that you're taking it very personally.

It's never in any commercial entity's best interest to throw tantrums :)
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: GP on March 16, 2010, 06:27:12 PM

It's never in any commercial entity's best interest to throw tantrums :)

oh, i don't know... there's at least 3 testimonials on the classic amplification (sorry was that a trademark too?) website so he must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: kvandekrol on December 20, 2010, 08:26:33 AM
My apologies for the zombie thread, but I just wanted to say I found out about the Neovibe Crybaby project yesterday and read everything related to it (drama and all!), and I am very excited for it! Already on the lookout for a cheap Crybaby in anticipation :)

To R.G.'s question of whether the bigger layout would be appreciated... I think the bigger layout was overshadowed a bit by the Crybaby since it's new and compact. I was planning on building a Neovibe and was a little nervous about etching the board myself, since the pads and traces aren't very big and I'm still doing PnP transfers, and if the larger board was ready to go and the Crybaby version wasn't in the works, I would definitely go for the larger board.

Because of this, I imagine there would be a market for it if that became the version that GGG offered. The people on this particular forum aren't as interested in the larger version because 1) the skill level of those who responded is such that the standard Neovibe is not beyond them (or they've already built one), and 2) the Crybaby version is a cool new project to try. But the customer base of GGG is probably closer to that of BYOC: people who don't want to get their hands dirty with etching and drilling and who want everything to be clear-cut and easy when assembling. So if there was a board that's designed for a specific enclosure and that has all offboard wiring clearly marked, I imagine that would be more appealing to potential GGG customers. And the board transfer would also be more appealing to newer etchers on this forum who don't have as much experience.
Title: Re: Some messing with Neovibe layouts
Post by: R.G. on December 20, 2010, 09:53:06 AM
I have to stuff all my personal messing about with effects into my spare time, and that's been fairly rare for the last few months. The layouts are actually done, and a test case has been built by a volunteer. I'll get the remaining writeup stuff done as soon as possible. I'll try to make the Crybaby-shell version the first off when I get it done. Note that this is only going to be useful to people who can do their own PCB work. I am not going to be selling PCBs for this.

If you (or others) want to prevail on a commercial outfit to carry the PCB, that would up the availability some.