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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 08:29:20 PM

Title: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 20, 2010, 08:29:20 PM
…..well, thay are not that big any way.

This is the story of tree flangers that wanted to be built. Two are and the third has to wait for a while.

Of course, if you want to use the layouts you don’t have to box them in a 1950A. They will fit easily in a 1950B and use normal size pots and even accommodate space for a battery MXR style.

Flanger No 1 The SUBWAVE
This is a clone of the Guyatone FL3. It is based on the MN3207/3102 kombo. This means that it will not produce the really deep Jet flanging. Never the less the designer of this circuit has done a grate job with filtering the sound. It produces a very liquid and musical sound that is really pleasing. So this is a really useful effect in real life music situations. The Jet effect are fun but not that useful all the time. It’s really good for flanging clean tones.

The PCB
OK, ready to build. I hate to drill PCB:s
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f0.jpg)

On the road to music. Some components mounted.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f1.jpg)


And ready for testing
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f2.jpg)

Some times it does not work. But there is always a reason. This time it was a solder bridge shortening the LFO.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f6.jpg)


Nice, it fits in the box. I have to remember to turn it the other way around for the final fit.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f3.jpg)

Hook up wires are always a hassle in these small boxes. Small pots fixated helps. The wires are easy to fix in a ordered manner.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f4.jpg)
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f5.jpg)


Time to paint some boxes. There cousin the Tri vibe “Good Vibe” was painted at the same time
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f7.jpg)

And the final result
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/f8.jpg)


And here are some sound samples of the SUBWAVE

Depth 100% Rate 50%
http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_D100_R50.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_D100_R50.mp3)
Depth 100% Rate 100%
http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_D100_R100.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_D100_R100.mp3)
Max everything regen and a bit feedback
http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_crasy.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/fl3_crasy.mp3)

And here are the project files the SUBWAVE
PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/PCB.pdf)
Component Layout
http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/Component Layout.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/FL3/Component Layout.pdf)



Flanger No 2 The BIG WAVE
This is the Ultraflanger by John Hollis. This is a really raw “all in” flanger. It is based on the MN3007 and the clock generation is made from a 4046 buffered by a 4049. Very much like the AD/A. This gives the citcuit the possibility to drive the BBD much harder/faster that results in the capability to produce crazy sound. It’s a veritable sound toy. It’s Capable of everything from normal flanging to “sounds from the other side”. The rudeness of the circuit with no more then the minimal necessary filtering makes it a bit distorted. This makes it most suitable for flanging distorted or squeezed tones.

Ones again that F-N drilling
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/u1.jpg)

Yes, I know I am a sissy to socket the BBD but a 3007 is to pricy to waist on something that doesn’t work. Fortunately this one did.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/u2.jpg)

Ready for testing. I decided to make the “Manual” control a trim put with a knob. Unfortunately I miscalculated (goofed up) when I drilled the Box so the hole was 5mm a side of centre. The knob did not fit so I have to adjust it by a small screwdriver.
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/u3.jpg)

And the final result
(http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/u4.jpg)

And here are some sound samples of the BIG WAVE

Normal flanging
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra mid.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra mid.mp3)
Max normal
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra max.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra max.mp3)
From beyond
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra extrem.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra extrem.mp3)
Chorus ich
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra chorus.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/Ultra chorus.mp3)

And here are the project files for BIG WAVE

Layout
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/ultraflanger layout.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/ultraflanger layout.pdf)

PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/ultraflanger PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/f/ultraflanger PCB.pdf)



Flanger No 3 The BIG MisterY  (not mystery)
This is the AD/A. I have decided to try to get it to fit in a Hammond 1950BB box. I’m still working with the PCB layout. My aim is to have all 5 pots soldered to one PCB with all of the LFO on it and the rest of the audio part on another PCB. Updates will come as soon as a result is presentable.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: frequencycentral on March 20, 2010, 08:33:00 PM
 :o  I refuse to believe that such small flangers can exist! Goooooooood work! Please send them to me for full and extended evaluation.   :D
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: ehofherr on March 20, 2010, 08:39:01 PM
Those look and sound great!  VERY SMALL....outstanding job!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: kurtlives on March 20, 2010, 09:05:28 PM
Your layouts have progressively gotten better and better. Your using Eagle now I think?

Pedals look great. Very clean.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: davent on March 20, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
Brilliant!!! Fantastic work!!!

dave
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: 12Bass on March 20, 2010, 09:16:22 PM
Nice job!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Slade on March 20, 2010, 09:43:51 PM
Really impressive work, solderman, I'm stunned... They sound awesome.
I think it's time for me to build a flanger, and thanks to you I can do it now. Thanks for all your work :icon_smile:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Quackzed on March 20, 2010, 09:58:15 PM
wow! you have to respect the limit of space; switch as standoff,staggered jacks, super clean tight layout. You have defied it!
sho-nuff !!!
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1362/1422477501_c870827424.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: MikeH on March 21, 2010, 01:17:14 AM
holy crap!  a flanger is the only effect I have never tackled and the fact you fit one in a BB makes me feel like a total hack!  Ok, time to do a flanger.  Good work man!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: humptydumpty on March 21, 2010, 01:20:13 AM
i believe those are a's
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: MikeH on March 21, 2010, 01:40:23 AM
i believe those are a's

Thanks for the clarification- for the record, it's 1:40 am here and i just got home and I'm HAMMERED, and yes; humpty is right: those are a's, not b's.  Still f'ing sweeeeeet!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: PedroTejada on March 21, 2010, 01:42:42 AM
WOW that's tiny!  :o

Time to sell my Boss BF2, buy BBDs and go to the working bench!  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Jarno on March 21, 2010, 05:00:39 AM
Look at the size of that footswitch! Stunning work!
Have you considered sandwiching two smaller boards in there? Or SMD?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
Hi
Thanks’ a mill every one for your nice words.
No, SMD is cheating. Only pure analog audio and build technique :D
The layouts are made with DIP trace from Novarm
http://www.diptrace.com (http://www.diptrace.com)
The version I use is the freeware version of the Pro version. Only limitation is 300 pins limit, non-profit use only. I have tried Eagel. It is also a very resourceful tool but DIP trace is more user friendly and have not the steep learning curve that Eagle has.
All my earlier work has been made with DIY layout creator. It’s a great tool for small uncomplicated layouts. But I would never have been able to do the falngers with it.
I will go back and redraw some of my 1590A layouts with Dip trace. Among those are the Rebot delay, The Zombie Chorus, MXR Phase 45 and 90. This will omit a lot of unnecessary jumpers and unwanted cables. But that is a job for the future.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on March 21, 2010, 11:23:03 AM
Fabulous work solderman!!!
All my flangers are huge (electric mistress and mxr), so it's fantastic to see yours!

The only important stompbox that I didn't make yet is A/DA Flanger, because it's huge...so I am very curious to see your PCB for it.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 21, 2010, 11:29:46 AM
Seriously nice work! :icon_cool:
Quote
Flanger No 3 The BIG MisterY  (not mystery)
This is the AD/A. I have decided to try to get it to fit in a Hammond 1950BB box. I’m still working with the PCB layout. My aim is to have all 5 pots soldered to one PCB with all of the LFO on it and the rest of the audio part on another PCB. Updates will come as soon as a result is presentable.
Are you planning to mount the pots so the box will take up a (IIRC) 94mm(3.7") wide footprint, or a 119mm(4.7") wide footprint? Side or back mounted jacks?
Inquiring minds, and all that... ;)


Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: mth5044 on March 21, 2010, 11:45:59 AM
Lets test some of you geezers out there (I love you all). Those are some wee pedals. Nice man
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 21, 2010, 12:01:33 PM
Lets test some of you geezers out there (I love you all). Those are some wee pedals. Nice man
I love you too! :-*
 :icon_lol:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 21, 2010, 01:21:01 PM
Solderman,

With the wide availability of dual op-amps in SIP form (i.e., many of us here could easily make use of them), feel free to use their space-conserving qualities to keep the PCB footprint small.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 21, 2010, 05:28:43 PM
Seriously nice work! :icon_cool:
Quote
Flanger No 3 The BIG MisterY  (not mystery)
This is the AD/A. I have decided to try to get it to fit in a Hammond 1950BB box. I’m still working with the PCB layout. My aim is to have all 5 pots soldered to one PCB with all of the LFO on it and the rest of the audio part on another PCB. Updates will come as soon as a result is presentable.
Are you planning to mount the pots so the box will take up a (IIRC) 94mm(3.7") wide footprint, or a 119mm(4.7") wide footprint? Side or back mounted jacks?
Inquiring minds, and all that... ;)

Hi
My plan A is to have the two boards parallel on different levels. The LFO board in front and at the bottom. This will accommodate jacks (In 7Ut Power) from the front. I would like to avoid them coming in from the sides as this steals space. If this won’t kork plan B is to have the LFO PCB standing at the top. Unfortunately I will not be able to fit the jacks in the front then. I plane a 119mm(4.7") wide footprint to have all 5 pots lined up. The volume is going to be a trim pot that is set and left. I can see no big reason to have it as a panel pot. The thing is crowded with pot’s as it is.

As Mark wrought, surface mount is a possibility. And Diptrace has layout templates for it. But I will save that for later. I don’t want to do it all too soon. Have to save some fun for the future. ;D

Here is the LFO part NOT VERIFIED I have not even had time to check it a second time. The cut corners are there if I have to have it standing.

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ada-lfo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 22, 2010, 09:06:25 AM
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: DougH on March 22, 2010, 11:11:50 AM
That's really nice work! Congratulations! :icon_wink:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: StereoKills on March 22, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 22, 2010, 12:27:00 PM
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
And are readily available in a nice array of flavours!
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Amplifier-ICs/Op-Amps/_/N-4h00g?P=1z0yz09Z1z0yhi4&Keyword=op+amp&FS=True

@solderman: You made no mention of the BBD you were going to base the A/DA on. Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN). This is something that's long overdue.
Please!  ;D
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: 12Bass on March 22, 2010, 12:51:26 PM
Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN).

If using a quality 9 V adapter, is a regulator even needed win MN/V/BL3207?  AFAIK, the chips can take up to 10 V.  I thought that the regulator was used in previous versions because they used an 18 V supply.  Could reduce the parts count that way....

BTW, I have some MN3007s on their way for further experimentation.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 22, 2010, 01:02:57 PM
Let me rephrase.
Would you consider doing a 9V non battery powered version? XX3207 based.
 ;)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: quarara on March 22, 2010, 02:47:21 PM
Let me rephrase.
Would you consider doing a 9V non battery powered version? XX3207 based.
 ;)

+1 on that!
I made myself an A/DA Flanger on veroboard and it's incredible. A 9V version with MN3207 would be fantastic for my pedalboard since gigging with a 18psu just for one pedal it's a bummer. Anyway MN32XX chip can sound really good. I did an AD3208 analog delay with two MN3205 and it's fantastic.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: moosapotamus on March 22, 2010, 04:19:19 PM
solderman - awesome layouts! nice work! a 9v ADA would be great! 8)

~ Charlie
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 23, 2010, 03:19:56 AM
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.

Ahh
Now I see what you mean. I have't hought about those cause there a bit hard to sorce.

Which gives me an Idée :icon_idea:
Why not bend the legs of a normal DIL package in the way that it stands on the side instead. You only have to extend the legs of one side with left over’s from cut resistors etc. This will make a DIL 14 to only use a footprint of 7X2. And they will not take more in height than a normal 100nF WIMA  Box film cap.
Thanks a bunch for the tip Mark. This really got me going :icon_twisted:

ADA in A 1590A………… naa that is a bit over the top ;)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 23, 2010, 03:50:04 AM
SIP (Single In-line Package) IC's are cool. They offer a ton of flexibility.
And are readily available in a nice array of flavours!
http://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Amplifier-ICs/Op-Amps/_/N-4h00g?P=1z0yz09Z1z0yhi4&Keyword=op+amp&FS=True

@solderman: You made no mention of the BBD you were going to base the A/DA on. Perhaps you might consider doing a (regulated)9V version using the readily available V3207 (or BL/MN). This is something that's long overdue.
Please!  ;D

Hi I actually have had that thought. The MN3007 is pricy and the 3207 is not. About 18V (15V really) or 9V. As I have understood it the 15V is to accommodate better headroom and omit distortion. Both the 3207 and 3007 runs on 9V. There is one of each in the BIG Wave and the SubWave. And they both are powered by 9V.

The thing is that the 3207 and 3007 are not interchangeable as you all already know. In the normal case the 3207 is clocked by a 3102 and that will not do if the ADA sound is wanted. You would need LFO with a high speed buffered clock pulse like the ADA or the Ultra flanger.

The Sapphire Flanger uses this setup with a 3207. I haven’t heard it but it’s seams OK by critics.
http://www.morleypedals.com/sfbes.pdf (http://www.morleypedals.com/sfbes.pdf)

As I have divided the PCB in to two sections, one LFO and one Audio. Without having thought it over you might be able to have one 9V AUDIO PCB for the 3207 and one 15V (18V) or 9V for the 3007 and use the same LFO board. In my layout I have separated the Vref as two OP-amp’s, one for each PCB, to isolate from ticking and ease of whining. I think the LFO side can work on both 9V and 15V.
I Have to think this over. Right now I’m on a train on my way to a customer (not stompboxes)
 Any thought from anyone else??


Edit:
As i recall i have a memory of seeing moosapotamus having an ADA with a  3207 :-\
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 23, 2010, 08:48:23 AM
I don't think headroom will really be much of an issue as most folks are going to use this w/guitar.
There is no need to have different PCB's for 30XX & 32XX BBD's. The change can be done w/2 jumpers as Charlie did in the last A/DA board. Another good example of this is madbean's Aqua Boy (@FSB) where he also gives the option of 3205 or 3005 by changing 2 jumpers.
I tried the A/DA w/an MN3207 (retrofit board) and it sounded great. A few C & R values (VCO) will need to be adjusted. I didn't take the experimenting any further because I was not in the mood to take apart my fully functional SAD1024 A/DA clone.
The preliminary results of that test:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72682.msg589002#msg589002
Replies 24 & 28. I have since acquired a 'scope. This has helped alot w/R&D. It's also helped with answering my own questions.
Oh, check this out. Might be of some interest...
http://cimarrontechnology.com/so8dip8tosiladapterpn060301.aspx
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: DiscoFreq on March 23, 2010, 09:17:23 AM
very nice work!!!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 23, 2010, 11:20:16 AM
Actually, what I meant was not surface mount, but those chips that are 8 (and sometimes 9) pins in a row, like the AN6551 and such.  Armed with vertically mounted resistors, these can facilitate VERY compact layouts.

Ahh
Now I see what you mean. I have't hought about those cause there a bit hard to sorce.

Which gives me an Idée :icon_idea:
Why not bend the legs of a normal DIL package in the way that it stands on the side instead. You only have to extend the legs of one side with left over’s from cut resistors etc. This will make a DIL 14 to only use a footprint of 7X2. And they will not take more in height than a normal 100nF WIMA  Box film cap.
Thanks a bunch for the tip Mark. This really got me going :icon_twisted:

ADA in A 1590A………… naa that is a bit over the top ;)
They aren't all that hard to source.  I have "experimented" with bending the legs of DIP chips and they are easily fractured.  Besides, SIP packages allow you to have the components on one side of the chip or the other.  That's a big part of what makes SIP-based layouts so compact - you don't have to run traces all over the place just because everything has to be on this side of the chip.

I suppose you are correct in that a SIP-ified 14-pin quad op-amp will take less space than when it is laid flat.  But still, keep in mind that when a pin breaks, it usually breaks at the epoxy body - a place where you can not save the chip by soldering on a resistor lead as "prosthetic limb".  So, if you are going to do it, be VERY careful, and bending slowly....once.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on March 23, 2010, 11:31:00 AM
Hej Solderman,

a littel off topic: What jacks do you use for your a enclosure works? Open ones or closed ones? I'm asking you because right at the moment I'm etching a pcb for the MN3207 powered Flanger, as I have still a unused pair MN3207 and MN3102 which I found in an old karaoke machine long time ago.:)
Tack så mycket!

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 23, 2010, 12:45:25 PM
Hej Solderman,

a littel off topic: What jacks do you use for your a enclosure works? Open ones or closed ones? I'm asking you because right at the moment I'm etching a pcb for the MN3207 powered Flanger, as I have still a unused pair MN3207 and MN3102 which I found in an old karaoke machine long time ago.:)
Tack så mycket!

Regards
Helge

For those two I have used standard switchcraft mono. Mr Dremmel has persuaded them to fit as I want them to. But I wish that I would find same thing smaller .
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Fuzz Aldryn on March 23, 2010, 01:06:45 PM
Hi,

thank you so far. At the moment, the smallest ones I have are these: http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p666_6-3mm-Klinkenbuchse-Stereo-mit-Schalter.html
Don't like them 'cause they are not holding very tight. Ok, I will see with what I will end up.

Regards
Helge
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 23, 2010, 06:18:17 PM
Hi
OK after having studied moosapotamus PCB for both the 3007 and the 3207 and read links that oldschoolanalog pointed me to have made a decision. Based on what I’ve read it seams that 9V will be a sufficient power source for guitar use. But then again, some one might want to have 15V anyway. So flexibility is the key word here. so here’s what I’m gone do
I am gone divide the circuit in to tree different boards;


One thing that puzzles me is that on all the schematics I have looked at the 3007 and 3207 are pin compatible except the ground and the +V (#1 & 5) but on the datasheet they are fully compatible. Can some one spread some light over this matter??


(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/BBD.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 23, 2010, 06:52:11 PM
Pin 5 is Vdd not V+.
Vdd of the 30XX BBD's is negative (V-) relative to Ground.
Vdd of the 32XX BBD's is positive (V+) relative to Ground.
IMHO, just use jumpers for the BBD connections and have the builder install those 2 R's (for Vgg) according to which BBD they want to use (3007 vs. 3207). Not using DIP switches saves on space, component count & cost. I guess the pads for the switches could be jumpered if wanted.
Check out reply 80:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72329.80
 :icon_cool:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: peterv999 on March 24, 2010, 04:28:43 AM
Solderman,

Congrats with your mini flangers presented at the DIYstompbox forum!! Very
impressive stuff!!

Assuming you're so kind to accept some questions I have 2 questions:

1. The modulation frequency, to control the PLL's VCO, would that also cover
about 20Herz ?

2. What would be the ratio between your oscillator and the "biased" setting. would this allow for a 4% modulation?

Myself I'm presenty building a classic delay based on BBD's (
www.echotapper.nl under DIY). The Wow&Flutter I've designed is nicely
isolated but the LED/LDR optical isolator is possible not working sufficiant
at 20Hz (the waveform I use is a set of a combination of waves with 20Hz as the ceiling )
your design seems to be not only a better sollution but also a more cost effective
one!!


Kind Regards,

Piet
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: quarara on March 24, 2010, 04:55:19 AM
solderman, you're my hero!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: newfish on March 24, 2010, 06:20:03 AM
Wow.

I'm always blown away by this sort of thing.  I would never have thought you could fit such a big circuit in a teeny-tiny box.

Really really well done.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 24, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
Hi
Thanks' all

There seems to be something dodgy going on here. The part that I have circled  in red seams to be wrong. Or is it the conecction betwee R31 and #7 that is wrong. Or  am I wrong?? If not the diode D6 is shorted why??


(http://solderman.fatabur.se/Future%20project/1.jpg)


Dave
About the pinout I’ve understand thanks’.

Piet
Your question is way out of my knowledge. I don’t even understand it, Sorry 
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: moosapotamus on March 24, 2010, 03:05:17 PM
There seems to be something dodgy going on here. The part that I have circled  in red seams to be wrong. Or is it the conecction betwee R31 and #7 that is wrong. Or  am I wrong?? If not the diode D6 is shorted why??

No, that's a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out! The connection that you have circled in red does not exist on the most recent batch of PCBs that I made available, and should taken out of the schematic.

Thanks!
~ Charlie
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 25, 2010, 11:20:22 AM
Hi all

(Thanks’ Charlie then its OK)

Below is the PCB layout for the ADA to fit in a Hammond 1590BB box.

I will stress that THEY ARE NOT VERIFIED. I haven’t had time to go over them a 2:nd time yet. I will not be able to do that just now cause I’m to busy at work at the moment. But if there are someone who have nothing better to do be my guest ;D


This is what I have done
The circuit is divided in to tree parts;
- PSU is the power supply board that is only to be used by those who want to use 15V by   using a 18V DC PSU or by using a 9V PSU and using a charge pump.
- LFO part that also accommodate the pots
- Audio board made to be used with use both the MN3007 and 3207. BBD can be changed without soldering IF DIP switches are used. Else use jumpers instead. I have removed one or two unnecessary cap in the PSU board. There is separate Vref  IC:s for the LFO and Audio. To save wiring and to isolate possibility of LFO ticking.
All the trim pot:s are oriented so the can be altered even when boxed up On the LFO they are stranding and on the Audio hole throe.     
I have followed the component numbering from the schematics. By me Added caps and resistors have got a number higher than that on the original BOM.

Below are the circuits. Click on them and lager ones will appear.

 The +V is in purple (18V yellow) , GND dark green, Vref orange.
On the DIP green=3007 blue=3207


(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU%20small.jpg) (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg)

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio%20small.jpg) (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20LFO%20small.jpg) (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20LFO.jpg)


Here are a sloppy drawing of how I plane to box it.

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/box.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on March 25, 2010, 12:07:27 PM
:o Fabulous work!!!  :o

I hope to have time to build one as soon as possible...

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 25, 2010, 12:18:36 PM
Nice stuff! ;D
Where is the odd/even switch going to go on the enclosure?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 25, 2010, 12:26:47 PM
You get my vote for forum citizen of the year. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 25, 2010, 12:30:43 PM
Nice stuff! ;D
Where is the odd/even switch going to go on the enclosure?

Any where on the top plenty of room.
I have forgot the LED on the audio board  :o



Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 25, 2010, 12:31:34 PM
You get my vote for forum citizen of the year. :icon_biggrin:

In what country  ;D
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: quarara on March 25, 2010, 12:33:14 PM
You get my vote for forum citizen of the year. :icon_biggrin:

In what country  ;D
Everywhere!
Seriously, you're great.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 25, 2010, 02:14:13 PM
Man sweep jack?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 25, 2010, 04:49:01 PM
Man sweep jack?
I did not fit that in as I did not ewant i t my self. But I might as well leav a Pad so it can be added.

 
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on March 25, 2010, 06:21:54 PM
"You the Man!"
 :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: moosapotamus on March 25, 2010, 07:36:20 PM
Awesome! 8)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 26, 2010, 01:36:16 AM
Awesome! 8)

Hi
Thank’s but the one that should have most credited is you. Without your work with the schematics etc., oldschoolanalog, StephenGiles and numerus of other info sources there would not be an ADA for 3xxx BBD’s
My contribution is merely knowing how to read a schematic and transferring it to a layout.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: 12Bass on March 26, 2010, 02:19:55 AM
I think that this project and the overall spirit of this forum are great!  Nothing like sharing experience and expertise.... building on the backs of others' work.

A small point of note: On the audio board, it looks as if the labeling of the op amp sections is incorrect.  Op amps A&D are on top (pins 1,2,3,12,13,14), while C&D are on the bottom (pins 5,6,7,8,9,10).  Also, FWIW, for somewhat better performance, perhaps it might be worth looking into using quads (LM324) for CV, and duals for the audio stages.  I used dual high performance op amps in my A/DA build (which I adapted to a quad DIP).
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 28, 2010, 02:20:01 PM
Hi
I managed to get some time to go over the layout and corrected some errors I’ve made. I will try to etch and build this in the next week. I have all components in stock so now time is the only thing that I am in a shortage of. :D
So if there some one who wants to beat me to it, here are the PCB:s in printable versions. The big images in my earlier posts are updated as well. They can be used for layout and wiring. The component names are the same as in the original schematics so the BOM etc in moosapotamus grate PDF still applies here.

As soon as I have built this and verified the layout etc I will put together a complete PDF with everything and explanations etc. until then you have to bear with this as it is. About numbering of the IC.s I have changed the use of Op-amps to fit the layout so they will not correspond to the schematics but use TL072/74 and I thing you will be safe. The JFET is oriented for use of a 2N3819


Audio PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA audio PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA audio PCB.pdf)

LFO PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA LFO PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA LFO PCB.pdf)

PSU PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA PSU PCB.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA PSU PCB.pdf)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on March 28, 2010, 04:40:38 PM
Thank you very much solderman and all of you that you worked on the A/DA Flanger!

I have serious problems to use the PCBs with ground plane (I have a very cheap solder iron), so it's possible to post some "clean" PCBs for the Audio and LFO, as you did for the PSU?

Best regards!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on March 28, 2010, 05:12:44 PM
Thank you very much solderman and all of you that you worked on the A/DA Flanger!

I have serious problems to use the PCBs with ground plane (I have a very cheap solder iron), so it's possible to post some "clean" PCBs for the Audio and LFO, as you did for the PSU?

Best regards!

No problemas

Those are not actualy ground plane (not connected) just black to save the etch fluent.

Audio PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA audio PCB2.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA audio PCB2.pdf)

LFO PCB
http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA LFO PCB2.pdf (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA LFO PCB2.pdf)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on March 29, 2010, 09:09:39 AM
Thx a million times again solderman!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: edd29 on March 29, 2010, 10:43:56 AM
SOLDERMAN.

   this is what Im waiting for! thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 18, 2010, 05:30:51 PM
Hello solderman,

I hope that in the next week I will get the PCBs for this fabulous ADA Flanger (I will have eternal gratitude for you and all the wonderful people which worked on ADA Flanger!) and I have some (maybe stupid) questions:

1. Do these instructions http://moosapotamus.net/IDEAS/ADAflanger/ADA_MN3007/ADA%20Flanger%20Clone%20Build%20Instructions%20PCB%20rev5%20MN3007%20Jan2010.pdf (http://moosapotamus.net/IDEAS/ADAflanger/ADA_MN3007/ADA%20Flanger%20Clone%20Build%20Instructions%20PCB%20rev5%20MN3007%20Jan2010.pdf) made by moosapotamus are the proper one to your PCBs (there are more versions on his site)?

2. If the answer to question no.1 is YES go to questions no. 3, else go to question no. 4.

3. a) In the instructiuons, C38 is listed as a 2uF electro, but the Mouser code seems to be one of a 2.2uF electro. Which is the correct value?
   b) The LT1054 it's very expensive here, and MAX 1044 can't be found. Can I use ICL7660 instead?
   c) What type of LM7815 have you used in your clone: the little one (TO92) or the big one (like an IRFxxxx)?
   d) C36 is listed as 22-33uF electro. How to choose between these two values?
   e) Some values of the resistors I can't find here (250R, 14K, 1.3M). Are them critical (in this case I will combine 2 resistors to get them...but I hate this!) or I can approximate them (220/240R, 13/15K and 1.2/1.5M)?

4. The DIP switches must be something like that: http://www.syscomelco.ro/ProdusDetaliu.asp?ID=1930 (I never used DIP switches before...)?

5. For the safeness of my only MN3007: if I plan to use only the MN3007 (very hard to get a MN3207 here), I must to use jumpers for the green connections and nothing for the blue ones?

6. DIP 1 is for switching between 9V/15V, I suppose. Which are the differences between the two versions? Is there a serious reason to keep the DIP or I can use a simple jumper for one of the versions?

7. You said: "By me Added caps and resistors have got a number higher than that on the original BOM." Which components have you added and what are their values?

Best regards and many thanks,
Radu
   

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: starekase502 on April 18, 2010, 08:55:46 PM
sorry for the newb question but could a mn3204 be used in place of the mn3207 on the subewave. 
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 21, 2010, 11:45:30 AM
Hello solderman,

I hope that in the next week I will get the PCBs for this fabulous ADA Flanger (I will have eternal gratitude for you and all the wonderful people which worked on ADA Flanger!) and I have some (maybe stupid) questions:

1. Do these instructions http://moosapotamus.net/IDEAS/ADAflanger/ADA_MN3007/ADA%20Flanger%20Clone%20Build%20Instructions%20PCB%20rev5%20MN3007%20Jan2010.pdf (http://moosapotamus.net/IDEAS/ADAflanger/ADA_MN3007/ADA%20Flanger%20Clone%20Build%20Instructions%20PCB%20rev5%20MN3007%20Jan2010.pdf) made by moosapotamus are the proper one to your PCBs (there are more versions on his site)?

YES

2. If the answer to question no.1 is YES go to questions no. 3, else go to question no. 4.

3. a) In the instructiuons, C38 is listed as a 2uF electro, but the Mouser code seems to be one of a 2.2uF electro. Which is the correct value? Dont Know but 2,2 will probably work
   b) The LT1054 it's very expensive here, and MAX 1044 can't be found. Can I use ICL7660 instead? YES but omit the jusmper pin 1-8 se moosapotamus PDF for PSU alternative   
  c) What type of LM7815 have you used in your clone: the little one (TO92) or the big one (like an IRFxxxx)? The big but that's cause I had one in stock
   d) C36 is listed as 22-33uF electro. How to choose between these two values? Se moosapotamus PDF
   e) Some values of the resistors I can't find here (250R, 14K, 1.3M). Are them critical (in this case I will combine 2 resistors to get them...but I hate this!) or I can approximate them (220/240R, 13/15K and 1.2/1.5M)? Don't know but usualy 10% off is OK

4. The DIP switches must be something like that: http://www.syscomelco.ro/ProdusDetaliu.asp?ID=1930 (I never used DIP switches before...)? or use jumpers instead

5. For the safeness of my only MN3007: if I plan to use only the MN3007 (very hard to get a MN3207 here), I must to use jumpers for the green connections and nothing for the blue ones? Then omit eveterything that you don't need, See the schematci  

6. DIP 1 is for switching between 9V/15V, I suppose. Which are the differences between the two versions? Is there a serious reason to keep the DIP or I can use a simple jumper for one of the versions? >As you only need one option jumper it

7. You said: "By me Added caps and resistors have got a number higher than that on the original BOM." Which components have you added and what are their values? Cant'remeber but it will be tha ones with numres higher  than the original BOM

I have not built and verifyed one yet. It's only half finished. All work no play :-)

Best regards and many thanks,
Radu
  


Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 21, 2010, 01:49:16 PM
Thx a lot solderman!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 25, 2010, 09:24:03 AM
Hi all

I found time to finish my ADA last week. Unfortunately it does not work. I have spent a lot of hors trouble shooting it to find out why it does not work. I have checked my layout dozens of times and the same with solder bridges and correct components in correct place. But found no obvious reason why it won’t work. My frustration has now reached a critical level so I thought that it was best to reach for help from the “fellowship of the stomp boxes”

Before I post voltage readings and such I would like to know the answer to some questions to help me get to understand if I have made a layout error or if it is a building error. As far as this I am pretty sure that it is the LFO that is the main problem.

At the moment I am using the MN3007 at +15V.

I have checked all basics,  that GND is 0V at all places it suppose to be and that I have 14-15V at V+ and ½  (around 7V) at Vb. I have also followed “moosapotamus” checklist in the PDF. I have also probed the circuit with my signal generator as source.

Q1. I have a good signal at pin 3 of the BBD.  If the LFO is working what should I hear if I probe pin 7-8 and what should I hear if the LFO is not working?

Q2. As I have divided the total circuit in two hlavs, LFO and Audio Can I test the Audio part By inserting any old LFO I have as long as it delivers a sine wave and has a common GND etc or what specs does it have to meet? I was thinking of bread boarding the LFO part of a John Hollis Zombie chorus or maybe Ultra flanger together to test with.

Q3
Connected with a signal source the circuit delivers dry signal on Out.  When I probe all the signal currying op-amps I also have signal (some times weak some times stronger) on all OP-amp OUT pins. One thing that puzzles me is that I have a good signal at viper of T6/R73 and a weak signal at the other side of R73 but no signal at Pin 9 of IC2c. But a strong signal at  pin 8 of IC2c (pins referring to the schematics’ not to the build) . This seams wrong to me. In my layout IC2c is a dual OP-Amp and the 2:nd half of that Op-Amp is IC2c. As I see it should not matter that Op-amps used are not physically contained in the same chip as the schematic says as long as the schematics is kept correct and GND and V/Vb is consistent. Am I way out here??

Thank’s for answers

Here it is

(http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/Bild.jpg)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on April 25, 2010, 07:33:21 PM
>As far as this I am pretty sure that it is the LFO that is the main problem.<
First check the LFO. Set your DMM to DCV; probe output pin of the LFO. If you get a rising & falling V that changes speed when you change the rate pot setting the LFO is working.
Next, take a break for a day or two.
I'm serious.
When frustration reaches "critical mass" nothing good could come of that.
I have some ideas for your other Q's but first you need to verify if it is in fact the LFO that's the problem.
Next, what other test equipment do you have? f counter? 'Scope? Not critical but it would help to know.
All the Best!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 26, 2010, 01:45:58 AM
I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work :(
I hope to receive the PCBs for it this week and I will try to build as soon as possible (maybe this could help you).
Anyway, what's the 2x4 DIP for?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 26, 2010, 01:17:59 PM
>As far as this I am pretty sure that it is the LFO that is the main problem.<
First check the LFO. Set your DMM to DCV; probe output pin of the LFO. If you get a rising & falling V that changes speed when you change the rate pot setting the LFO is working.
Next, take a break for a day or two.
I'm serious.
When frustration reaches "critical mass" nothing good could come of that.
I have some ideas for your other Q's but first you need to verify if it is in fact the LFO that's the problem.
Next, what other test equipment do you have? f counter? 'Scope? Not critical but it would help to know.
All the Best!
Thanks’ for the supportive words.
Yes I have a good pulsing LFO at OUT  (IC4b on the schematics). I actually had to dig deep to find my old analog volt meter since a DMM has a hard time showing that wind screen wiper effect.

Unfortunately my DMM has no frequency function and I do not own a scope all though I wish I did.

I can hear a squeal and a pulsing noise in pace with the LFO from pin 2 on the BDD. The same from pin 6 but about twice the frequency. Both shows 7,02V. When probed, the signal is loud and clear at Pin 3. But at pin 7-8 there is only a week distorted signal very much like a wrongly biased Fuzz Face and a week high frequency noise. Shouldn’t there be some kind of raw flanging sound here. The signal I get is no where near a flanging sound.  I tested the MN3007 in my Small Clone and it works perfect so there is nothing wrong with the BBD.

Voltage at the BDD

1=14,23
2=7,02
3=9,68
4=1,00
5=0,00
6=7,03
7=8,81
8=8,81


 Any ideas?

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 26, 2010, 01:22:06 PM
I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work :(
I hope to receive the PCBs for it this week and I will try to build as soon as possible (maybe this could help you).
Anyway, what's the 2x4 DIP for?

I assume you mean the one on the audio PCB that has 1&3 in ON position. That is to shange place between the 14K(R71)  and 1K(R70) resistor when using MN3007 or MN3207
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 26, 2010, 01:40:34 PM
I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work :(
I hope to receive the PCBs for it this week and I will try to build as soon as possible (maybe this could help you).
Anyway, what's the 2x4 DIP for?

I assume you mean the one on the audio PCB that has 1&3 in ON position. That is to shange place between the 14K(R71)  and 1K(R70) resistor when using MN3007 or MN3207

Yes...thx a lot and good luck!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on April 26, 2010, 02:54:08 PM
It sounds like a BBD bias issue. I just took some quick V readings from my moose rev5 (MN3007) and the only differences were pin3 measured 8.37V and pins 7&8 were 5.97V. All the other pins were within ~.1V when compared w/yours. Try biasing as per Charlie's instructions (page7):
http://moosapotamus.net/IDEAS/ADAflanger/ADA_MN3007/ADA%20Flanger%20Clone%20Build%20Instructions%20PCB%20rev5%20MN3007%20Jan2010.pdf
I'll probe mine w/a signal generator later and let you know what I get.
Stay Cool. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 27, 2010, 09:50:19 AM
I have played around with the T1 bias and I have a good pulsing sound on pin7-8 on the BBD much like the one on my working Small Clone and the speed pot effects the pulsing.
I think the problem is around IC2c. I have a good pulsing sound on the pin 8 end of R34 (10K) but some strange noise at the other end of that resistor. Is this the expected behavior? My conclusion is that its not. I think that I shuld have a signal here. This leads me to believe that the error is some ware in the “Threshold” part.
As I understand it, the dry signal is sent in to the “Threshold” trough C16 and its level is then monitored by IC3a&b and its surrounding components. When the level has reached the level determined by the threshold pot, the resistance of Q1 gets higher and lowers the total resistance to let more Vb true to R34/R36 and alter the bias and the sound.
If I am correct I should have some kind of audio signal at the R34-R36 junction. Or am I out in the ….??

To test my theory and to trouble shoot this, I will try to lift the end of R34 connected to R36 from the PCB and do the same with R42 the end connected to IC1c and R39 and then connect the lifted part of R34 to the lifted part of R42. This way I will disconnect the threshold and the “enhance” regeneration part. And hopfolly have some kind of flanging sound. am I out in the ….here as well??
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 27, 2010, 02:52:21 PM
YES
I have flanging. Well at least a very bad sounding chorus or vibrato. But never the less it’s that unmistakably BDD sound.

I lifted and connected the resistors as described above and it worked as I suspected. Now I know that the error is in the “threshold” or “enhance” part.
Time to isolate one at the time
To be continued…    

Edit:
YES
I Put the resistors back in and cut the trace from Q1 to the R34/R36/R37 junction and... Flanging at the output
Can it be the Q1. Its a 2N3819 and others have used it ??? Better check the layout, components, solder bridges or bad joints for the 100's time. But now i have a limited area to focus at and it "almost" works.
Now its sounds like a flanger all though a bad sounding one. Guess i have to trim it to sound good. T1 are simpel by ear, T2 and T6 are level type so ear is OK here as well.   T3,4 and 5 is harder to set by ear since I don't know what to lisen for.

BTW can some one that have a working circuit tell me what the threshold contribute with to the circut sound wise or other wise??

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 27, 2010, 04:14:28 PM
.................................................
YES
I Put the resistors back in and cut the trace from Q1 to the R34/R36/R37 junction and... Flanging at the output
Can it be the Q1. Its a 2N3819 and others have used it ??? Better check the layout, components, solder bridges or bad joints for the 100's time. But now it "almost" works.
Now its sounds like a flanger all though a bad sounding one. Guess i have to trim it to sound good. T1 are simpel by ear, T2 and T6 are level type so ear is OK here as well.   T3,4 and 5 is harder to set by ear since I don't know what to lisen for.

BTW can some one that have a working circuit tell me what the threshold contribute with to the circut sound wise or other wise??

Glad to hear that it's working now!
You're a fabulous man, solderman... :-*

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on April 27, 2010, 04:42:50 PM
About the Threshold control...
You have to decide if you want to build that part of the circuit for voltage controlled flanging...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74367.40
Replies 46 & 47.
Or, as a noise gate. Replies 52 & 53.
The VC flanging is very cool but is more difficult to set up.
The noise gate is simple to set up and works like a charm.
Your call.
Maybe try removing Q1 & R35 and see how it sounds without that part of the circuit in play. Then experiment with the threshold section after you have it sounding good. edit: Just realized that is what you did. Oops! :icon_redface:
All the Best!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: stringsthings on April 27, 2010, 09:57:38 PM
YES
I have flanging..... it’s that unmistakably BDD sound.

I lifted and connected the resistors as described above and it worked as I suspected. Now I know that the error is in the “threshold” or “enhance” part.
Time to isolate one at the time
To be continued…    

Edit:
YES
I Put the resistors back in and cut the trace from Q1 to the R34/R36/R37 junction and... Flanging at the output
Can it be the Q1. Its a 2N3819 and others have used it ??? Better check the layout, components, solder bridges or bad joints for the 100's time. But now i have a limited area to focus at and it "almost" works.
Now its sounds like a flanger ......



excellent job at trouble shooting !! give yourself lots of credit for getting the project to work ....  flangers can be a real PITA ...

and your work on the first two flangers was nothing short of total awesome !
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on April 28, 2010, 01:52:48 PM
Thanks’ for the kind words. They are a big help and inspires me to go on. I will not quit until the threshold part also works. And I have made a couple of errors in the layout that is NOT corrected. So its not verified even if it “almost” works. The layout warnings are;

-The threshold part has some error. Cut the trace between Q1 and R36/37 and the rest will work.
-The the D9 diode on the PSU is ( or was ) turned wrong on the pic on page 3 . It should have the catod to 18V
- The speed, Range and Manual pot has lug 1&3 reversed. This is only a real problem and has to be fixed on speed since it’s a  rev log. The others work but  backwards.
- There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB  

Here is a crappy sound sample recorded Tele bridge>ADA>POD 2.0 Clean preamp>mixer>Soundcard.

http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA.mp3)

Dave, thanks for the link. Besides the info in it, it gave me an idée.
Since I have mad the AD modular I will take this to even a further extent. I will;

- Do a layout for the LFO part of John Hollis Ultra flanger. It’s less complex and might work well with the ADA Audio part.
- I will brake out the threshold part so it can be built with voltage or noise gate or not used at all.
- I will make a layout for the Guyatone flanger Audio part but instead of a 3102 I will do it so it  can use the ADA or Ultra Flanger LFO part. AND the threshold part AND an odd/even switch.

Then it will be a very modular flanger. I think I will call it LEGO or Swatch flanger.  build all the parts and put them together to suite your taste.  ;D
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on April 28, 2010, 02:50:43 PM
Re: Threshold section.
Make sure C17 & C15 are connected to Ground. Not Vb.
Set it up as a noise gate first. This has been verified working in all builds previous to the VC idea. Use B10k for the pot (B100k was suggested for VC) and a J201 for the FET. The J201 has been used successfully for the noise gate function since moose V1. Loads of documentation on that.
I admire your wanting to do all the cool "modular" ideas you mentioned. However, I must respectfully suggest you should get this working stock before taking things to the next level. That way you will have a better understanding & point of reference.
Just $.02 opinion from a $.02 guy...  :icon_lol:
Cheers!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: 12Bass on April 28, 2010, 08:41:35 PM
From solderman's sample, it sounds like the clock rate needs to be at least doubled to get into proper flanging zone.  As it is, it is more in the chorus/double-tracking range.  Glad you've got it working!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on April 29, 2010, 12:12:25 AM
Thank you very much again solderman for your work!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 07, 2010, 02:06:25 PM
Hi all
I found some time to fiddle with the A/DA again and this is the results. I have tampered with the trim pots as described and got to this result just by ear. It’s quite OK and I don’t know it can get som much better that it’s worth the cost of a new DMM with frequency capacity.

Here is a sloppy sound sample that sound more like a flanger than my earler sound sample. It's Strat Neck PU>A/DA>Clean Tube Amp>Sound Card>Cubase Record. No post FX etc.

http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA2.mp3 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA2.mp3) 


I swapped the 2N3819 FET for a J201 as suggested by Dave and subbed the 10K Threshold pot for a 100K as suggested in the ling at post #75 And the threshold sort of works. It’s not to any grate use as I se it so I might omit it in the end.

I tested to swap the 3007 for a 3207 and adjusted all the DIP switches to go with the 3207 setup and it worked. DON’T FORGET TO SWITCH TO 9V. I had to tamper a bit with the clock pots to get a good flanging. But the result sounded almost the same as with the 3007. It was maybe a bit lamer. But just a bit. As I swapped back to 3007 I tested it at 9V and it worked but did not produce that deep flanging as with 15V. So 15V it is for the true sound. I guess it’s the LFO-clock part that makes the difference but I can’t figure out why 9V/15V would do to alter the behaviour in that part of the circuit.




So now it’s “Boxing” time. I’m gonna reuse an old one
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 07, 2010, 02:42:34 PM
Amazing work solderman!!!
I hope that in the next week I will have some time to build it :)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: RickL on May 07, 2010, 11:52:24 PM
No one's mentioned the Guyatone unit so I thought I would. I built one successfully using the PCB pattern and the 4ms CBCB construction method. It was a tight squeeze but it worked.

Two minor (related) things. I origionally built it using 1uF for C02 that sets the sweep speed. It worked but was very slow, even at the fastest rate. The build instructions suggest replacing C02 with a 680uF for faster rate. I'm guessing this was meant to be 680nF not uF(1). In any case I ended up using a 100nF which gave me the expected range of sweep speeds.

Does the commercial pedal really has this slow a sweep rate or is the value for C02 a typo(2)?

In any case, thanks for the layout.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 08, 2010, 06:53:15 AM
No one's mentioned the Guyatone unit so I thought I would. I built one successfully using the PCB pattern and the 4ms CBCB construction method. It was a tight squeeze but it worked.

Two minor (related) things. I origionally built it using 1uF for C02 that sets the sweep speed. It worked but was very slow, even at the fastest rate. The build instructions suggest replacing C02 with a 680uF for faster rate. I'm guessing this was meant to be 680nF not uF(1). In any case I ended up using a 100nF which gave me the expected range of sweep speeds.

Does the commercial pedal really has this slow a sweep rate or is the value for C02 a typo(2)?

In any case, thanks for the layout.
Hi
Yes the 680uF should be nF. After I posted tha I fiddeld with C2 and ended up with 220nF. I still want to keep that long sweep and also have the vibrato option.
overall this is the best and most musical Flanger I have tested. I guess that it depends on the filtering and rather mild and low frequecy  LFO/clock section. I'm planing to use the audio part and hook it up somthing hotter like the ultrafalanger LFO. Only mod is the around the BBD.
 
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 16, 2010, 03:19:28 AM
........................

So its not verified even if it “almost” works. The layout warnings are:

- The threshold part has some error. Cut the trace between Q1 and R36/37 and the rest will work.
- The the D9 diode on the PSU is ( or was ) turned wrong on the pic on page 3 . It should have the catod to 18V
- The speed, Range and Manual pot has lug 1&3 reversed. This is only a real problem and has to be fixed on speed since it’s a  rev log. The others work but backwards.
- There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB   

.................................................................................

Hello again solderman!
I have a little more time for soldering, so I've started to build the ADA Flanger. Anyway, I hadn't enough time, so I've finished soldering only the resistors.
I founded a little mistake in the labeling of resistors: in the audio part (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)) R49 must to be R43 (the real R49 is the one from the LFO part).
And, if you're kindly as usually, I have two questions for you:

1. the trace between Q1 and R36/R37 must to be cut under C16 or under R29 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg))? I am almost sure that it must to be cut under R29, but...
2. you said "There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB". I don't understand anything...which is the "Enhanced pot"?

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 16, 2010, 06:41:24 PM
Hello again solderman,

I am glad that you didn't answered to my previous questions yet, because I've worked ahead on ADA and I have a couple of new questions to add:

1. maybe I'm stupid, maybe I'm too tired, but I can't find R62 and R68 (47 ohms both) and D7 (a 1N400x)...
2. which are the values of the R70-2 and R71-2 (I think that they are for MN3207)?
3. Charlie's instructions have the last resistor labeled R73, so which are the values of R75 and R76 that you added (and I suppose that you have no R74 because I couldn't find, too)?
4. Charlie's instructions have the last capacitor labeled R40, so which is the value of C41 that you added (I hope that's the only one that you added)?
5. who is your IC2 from the Audio PCB (in Charlie's instructions it's indicated as TL074, but it's too small for that...)?
6. can you be a little more explicit regarding the jumper from the "Manual" pot (I want to have it externally, but simple...without an expression pedal)?

Thank you very much again!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 16, 2010, 06:42:22 PM
A last moment ideea: can you post some high resolutions photos with your build?
That can be very useful for me :)

Thank you a lot again!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 17, 2010, 01:11:50 PM
Sorry took a while but here is some answers



1. the trace between Q1 and R36/R37 must to be cut under C16 or under R29 (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)? I am almost sure that it must to be cut under R29, but...

-Correct. You may cut trace and the connect a wire from D on Q1 and one on R37/37 and have them to a switch this way you can switch in and out the Threshold Pot.
 
2. you said "There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB". I don't understand anything...which is the "Enhanced pot"?

-Yes P1 is “Enhace” lug 1 goes to Vb. There ought to be a pad there where it says P1-1 on the audio part.

1. maybe I'm stupid, maybe I'm too tired, but I can't find R62 and R68 (47 ohms both) and D7 (a 1N400x)...

-R68 is in the LFO part next to the 4007. I have removed R62,55,C26,22 40 and D7 cause they are not needed. C4 is swapped to 100uF.  R77 is added as a current limiting R for the status LED.  

2. which are the values of the R70-2 and R71-2 (I think that they are for MN3207)?

70-1=1K
70-2=14K
71-1=14K
71-2=1K


3. Charlie's instructions have the last resistor labeled R73, so which are the values of R75 and R76 that you added (and I

-suppose that you have no R74 because I couldn't find, too)?
R75 and 76 are both 68K they are for the IC2 Vb bias. There is no R74 don’t ask me why 


4. Charlie's instructions have the last capacitor labeled R40, so which is the value of C41 that you added (I hope that's the only one that you added)?

-C41 is a filter Cap for the IC2 bias 10uF

5. who is your IC2 from the Audio PCB (in Charlie's instructions it's indicated as TL074, but it's too small for that...)?

-It’s any dual Op-Amp  TL072 etc. for producing Vb bias to the audio part and separate the Vb bias from the LFO to avoid LFO ticking.  

6. can you be a little more explicit regarding the jumper from the "Manual" pot (I want to have it externally, but simple...without an expression pedal)?

-Well, I don’t really understand since the P3 on the LFO part IS an external “manual” pot and to have it that way jumper the pad from lug 2 to the pad that goes from under R50.


Pleas get back to me if you have further questions.  

PS.
I have Emailed you some pics hope you are on a fast link :-)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 17, 2010, 01:40:20 PM
Solderman, you're GREAT and VERY KINDLY :)
Thank you a million times!
With this indications, I hope I will finished it tomorrow night...
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 18, 2010, 12:32:37 AM
Hello again solderman!

I worked on it (but only a short time) and I have two little questions regarding the PSU (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg)):

1. under DIP1 I think that's a track missing in the left side of it because now the output of 7815 goes to nowhere
2. in the PSU layout is written that I need a jumper if I use a MAX1044 (I will use an ICL7660 instead)....you wrote me above not to use one....which is the right answer (I think I need the jumper, but...)

And a new one:

3. at the pin 3 of the "Regen" pot is written "To T2"...where is this T2?

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 18, 2010, 11:42:18 AM
Hello again solderman!

I worked on it (but only a short time) and I have two little questions regarding the PSU (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg)):

1. under DIP1 I think that's a track missing in the left side of it because now the output of 7815 goes to nowhere

True there is a trace missing  between the legs at the "On" end DIP
Cauchen D9 oriented wrong on the pic in the link. The catode should be pointing at "A"

2. in the PSU layout is written that I need a jumper if I use a MAX1044 (I will use an ICL7660 instead)....you wrote me above not to use one....which is the right answer (I think I need the jumper, but...)
No jumper for ICL7660


And a new one:

3. at the pin 3 of the "Regen" pot is written "To T2"...where is this T2?

T2 is V2 trim pot

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 18, 2010, 12:35:57 PM
Thank you very very very much again solderman!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 20, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
I've finished it last night, but it didn't worked (only the "Bias" and "Volume" trimpots works...and with the trimpots from the LFO I can "tweak" a very high frequency whistle)...I heard only very clear the "dry" guitar...I think that's a problem with the wiring, because when I'm switching between odd/even I must to rebias it.


Because it was 2 A.M., I postponed the rechecking/debugging for today.

Anyway, thank you very much again solderman for your help!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 20, 2010, 03:01:39 AM
Hi
Hope you can get it to work. Here are some tips.

1.   Check that you have ~15V at +V and half that at +Vb at both LFO and audio.
2.   Chech that you have 0V att all GDN traces other at the GDN whire and the other end of the GDN trace.
3.   Chech the dip switch or jumpers has tha same connetion as the pic I sent you assuming that you using a MN3007.
4.   Probe the signal path from IN all the way. You vant to have a good signal at pin 3 of the BBD. And a pulsing sort of distorted signal at pin 7-8.
5.   Have all trim pots at 50% to start with.
6.   have depth pot at MIN (on my layout the depth pot is backwards I´ll fix that when I get time) Enhance at 50% and then turn Manual CCW and CW fast and you shall have a sort of a flanging sound when you listen to the input signals.
7.    Check that the threshold is not bothering you by follow what I did and is described in post 68-73

Good luck   
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 20, 2010, 03:46:32 AM
Hi
Hope you can get it to work. Here are some tips.

1.   Check that you have ~15V at +V and half that at +Vb at both LFO and audio.
2.   Chech that you have 0V att all GDN traces other at the GDN whire and the other end of the GDN trace.
3.   Chech the dip switch or jumpers has tha same connetion as the pic I sent you assuming that you using a MN3007.
4.   Probe the signal path from IN all the way. You vant to have a good signal at pin 3 of the BBD. And a pulsing sort of distorted signal at pin 7-8.
5.   Have all trim pots at 50% to start with.
6.   have depth pot at MIN (on my layout the depth pot is backwards I´ll fix that when I get time) Enhance at 50% and then turn Manual CCW and CW fast and you shall have a sort of a flanging sound when you listen to the input signals.
7.    Check that the threshold is not bothering you by follow what I did and is described in post 68-73

Good luck   


Thank you very much solderman!
Until now I've checked only +V and +Vb and there are OK...
I used a J201 for the FET, oriented as in the layout, and a 100K pot for Thresold. It's OK?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 20, 2010, 02:25:45 PM
Hello solderman,

Still not working...
It passed tests 1,2,3...I didn't have time for tests 4 and 7, yet (I hope to have tonight)...test 6 failed :(
By the way, I found an almost perfect solder joint, so I want to recheck all before making test 4.

Anyway, how can I test if the LFO is working with a cheap DMM?

Thx a lot,
Radu


Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 20, 2010, 06:30:42 PM
Hello solderman,

I debugged it a little and I have half-good news: after I've found another "stupid very good looking solder joint" I was able to get some sounds like a detuned chorus (I don't have a frequency meter), but no "jet-flange".
The bad things:

1. it works only with the odd/even switch open (when I close it the Vb decrease almost to Vb/2...so all my bias is gone)!!!
2. the speed must to be near maximum
3. the enhance pot+trimpot seems to do almost nothing
4. the thresold seems to do nothing, too
5. a very high frequency carrier signal

Now it's 1:30 AM, so I go to bed...maybe tomorrow I will have more luck :)

Thx again solderman!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 22, 2010, 11:47:30 AM
I've spent last night over 3 hours trying to debug it, using a PC oscilloscope and an Uglyface as signal generator, but I had no luck.
Maybe the input of my soundcard is limited, but I was able only to get frequencies between 2.000 and 20.000Hz on the pin 13 of 4047 ("Range Max" trimpot seems to have a very little influence). 
After 2 hours, I plugged a Boss BF-2 instead of ADA Flanger (and kept the same settings for Uglyface) and it was more than obviuosly that the waveforms are very different.
Maybe this night I will have more luck...
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 22, 2010, 05:12:39 PM
I've spent last night over 3 hours trying to debug it, using a PC oscilloscope and an Uglyface as signal generator, but I had no luck.
Maybe the input of my soundcard is limited, but I was able only to get frequencies between 2.000 and 20.000Hz on the pin 13 of 4047 ("Range Max" trimpot seems to have a very little influence). 
After 2 hours, I plugged a Boss BF-2 instead of ADA Flanger (and kept the same settings for Uglyface) and it was more than obviuosly that the waveforms are very different.
Maybe this night I will have more luck...

Try to probe along the signal way. Focus on getting a signal at each OUT on each OP amp that carry signal.
Also the V2 (T2) is for setting the Enhance level before feedback.

The odd/even error might be the reason to why you don’t get it to work . Also try to omit the threshold by cutting the trace from Q1-D under R29.

Check that you have a pumping voltage on pin 7 IC1 on the LFO.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 23, 2010, 01:43:06 AM
Thx a lot solderman!
I will try all the tests that you said...the strangest thing is that odd/even switch...I can't understand why it actys so strange :(
The trace from Q1 under R29 is cutted from the beginning...
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 23, 2010, 06:05:18 AM
I have a pulsating voltage around 5V at pin 7 of IC1 :)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 24, 2010, 03:08:19 AM
I lost another 3 hours to debug it, with no great luck.
What I did:

1. I relinked the J201 with R36/R37 (I thought that the 1M resistor is important for the bias of IC1) and the strong noise that I had before was gone :)...anyway, the thresold pot doesn't seems to do something very serious :(
2. After that I was able to hear a very weak flanger-ish signal "behind" the dry signal (the same sound you can obtain with a BF-2 into an amp at a high volume and no guitar in the input of BF-2)...so I think that the LFO it's working...this sound can be altered using Speed/Manual/Depth/Enhance pots
3. With the Speed at maximum (or very close to) I can hear a very clear (and enough loud) "detuned chorus"-like sound...and I was able to identify it: it's the same sound that you can obtain disconnecting the dry signal from a chorus/phaser (I never built a flanger before, only choruses/phasers) ...let's say it's a "vibrato" sound...it's OK now to assume that MN3007 it's working (it's the only one that I have)?

Anyway, for my last try to debug it, can you solderman please tell me what I must to hear at the outputs of the opamps?

I made some tests and that's what I obtained:

0. all op-amps and MN3007 are OK (tested in clones of MXR Distortion+/Small Clone)
1. pins 1 and 7 of IC1: a strong clear dry signal
2. pins 8 and 14 of IC1: a strong distorsed signal
3. pins 1 and 7 of IC3: a strong clear/distorsed signal
4. pin 3 of BBD: a strong clear signal
5. pins 7/8 of BBD: a strong distorsed signal (with the Bias trimpot maximized)
6. pin 7 of IC4 (2b-2c): a strong signal (I don't remeber if it was clear or distorsed)
7. pin 1 of IC4 (2b-2c): a weak whistle signal (maybe this is a problem...)

Thank you very much!








Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 24, 2010, 06:27:54 PM
Another tests...and now it sounds like an alarm/machine gun/reverb with the odd/even switch on  :icon_eek:...I think I must to recheck all  :-\
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 25, 2010, 06:02:16 PM
I lost another 3 hours to debug it, with no great luck.
What I did:

1. I relinked the J201 with R36/R37 (I thought that the 1M resistor is important for the bias of IC1) and the strong noise that I had before was gone :)...anyway, the thresold pot doesn't seems to do something very serious :(
2. After that I was able to hear a very weak flanger-ish signal "behind" the dry signal (the same sound you can obtain with a BF-2 into an amp at a high volume and no guitar in the input of BF-2)...so I think that the LFO it's working...this sound can be altered using Speed/Manual/Depth/Enhance pots
3. With the Speed at maximum (or very close to) I can hear a very clear (and enough loud) "detuned chorus"-like sound...and I was able to identify it: it's the same sound that you can obtain disconnecting the dry signal from a chorus/phaser (I never built a flanger before, only choruses/phasers) ...let's say it's a "vibrato" sound...it's OK now to assume that MN3007 it's working (it's the only one that I have)?

Anyway, for my last try to debug it, can you solderman please tell me what I must to hear at the outputs of the opamps?

I made some tests and that's what I obtained:

0. all op-amps and MN3007 are OK (tested in clones of MXR Distortion+/Small Clone)
1. pins 1 and 7 of IC1: a strong clear dry signal
2. pins 8 and 14 of IC1: a strong distorsed signal
3. pins 1 and 7 of IC3: a strong clear/distorsed signal
4. pin 3 of BBD: a strong clear signal
5. pins 7/8 of BBD: a strong distorsed signal (with the Bias trimpot maximized)
6. pin 7 of IC4 (2b-2c): a strong signal (I don't remeber if it was clear or distorsed)
7. pin 1 of IC4 (2b-2c): a weak whistle signal (maybe this is a problem...)

Thank you very much!










This sound OK
I think you have to sort out the odd/ even thing. It seams that you have a error some vere there
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 26, 2010, 02:04:07 AM
Thank you solderman!

Now it auto-oscillates like crazy when I alter the Enhance pot and trimpot, but when the odd/even switch is on!
Can you help me with some voltages around thresold/enhance/even/odd part and/or can you tell me what I must to have at the outputs of the op-amps/BBD?

Million thanks again!



Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 26, 2010, 10:51:02 AM
Between NE5532, TL072, RC4558 and LM833, which are the most suitable op-amps for ADA Flanger?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on May 26, 2010, 02:12:11 PM
Thank you solderman!

Now it auto-oscillates like crazy when I alter the Enhance pot and trimpot, but when the odd/even switch is on!
Can you help me with some voltages around thresold/enhance/even/odd part and/or can you tell me what I must to have at the outputs of the op-amps/BBD?

Million thanks again!





Sorry Mine is at a frien but chech voltage in erlier posts. I used TL 072 for dual and LM324 for 4X
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on May 26, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
OK...thx again :)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 05, 2010, 10:59:39 PM
I've made another tries to debug it, but with no luck, so I'm waiting for someone to post some good voltages...

Thank you all!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Puguglybonehead on June 07, 2010, 08:52:17 PM
The FL3 looks like it would be a good candidate for a through-zero mod. I quite like the sound of it, from the samples posted. I'm pretty lost with building anything more complicated than a fuzz, but I was wondering about doing a version of this flanger as an expression pedal? (eliminating the LFO) I have always wanted a footpedal-controlled flange, after trying a foot-controlled phase pedal back in the mid `70s.
That, and I'd like to add a second board, to achieve TZF. What part of the FL3 schematic can I omit to lose the LFO portion? I'm a bit lost, looking at it.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on June 08, 2010, 11:32:44 AM
Everything surrounding U5 is LFO territory
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 08, 2010, 03:45:54 PM
Sorry solderman for bothering you again, but can you help me little posting some voltages?

Thank you million times!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on June 08, 2010, 04:57:15 PM
Hi
No problem the only problem is that the thing still is at my friens.

By your description I don't think that you are far from the sulotion. Try to cut out the Threshold part and check the area around the od/even There are voltage for the BBD some pages back in this thread
  
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 09, 2010, 08:05:16 AM
Hi
No problem the only problem is that the thing still is at my friens.

By your description I don't think that you are far from the sulotion. Try to cut out the Threshold part and check the area around the od/even There are voltage for the BBD some pages back in this thread
  

The voltages for the BBD are close to the ones posted in this topic :(
I think that the problem is the Enhance part...but without the Thresold part it sounds horrible. I think that the 1M resitor between source and drain of the FET influences the bias of the opamp above.

Thank you very much again!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on June 11, 2010, 09:06:28 AM
Check This

Dave has posted Voltage of a working unit although its a different layout the cicuit is tha same so the voltage will be tha same as long as you can indentify the correct pin.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74367.msg710840#msg710840 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74367.msg710840#msg710840)
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Mark Hammer on June 11, 2010, 10:02:13 AM
Between NE5532, TL072, RC4558 and LM833, which are the most suitable op-amps for ADA Flanger?
For which portion of the circuit?  NE5532/LM833 provide less noise when used with smaller-value input/feedback resistances.  TL072 provide less noise when used with higher values.  NE5532/LM833 good for delivering lots of current where needed, but susceptible to ticking when used on LFO.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 30, 2010, 12:30:43 AM
Between NE5532, TL072, RC4558 and LM833, which are the most suitable op-amps for ADA Flanger?
For which portion of the circuit?  NE5532/LM833 provide less noise when used with smaller-value input/feedback resistances.  TL072 provide less noise when used with higher values.  NE5532/LM833 good for delivering lots of current where needed, but susceptible to ticking when used on LFO.

Thank you Mark!
I asked about IC2 from the audio part, but solderman said that it's a TL072 :)

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 30, 2010, 12:33:09 AM
I copied this post from the thread "MN3007 ADA Flanger clone" to avoid confusions and to keep all the thing clean!

Hello oldschoolanalog,

I had a break at my job, so I had sometime to measure the voltages on my ADA clone...and it's a disaster!
The main problem was/is that I built using solderman's layout:
1. Audio: http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20Audio.jpg)
2. LFO: http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20LFO.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20LFO.jpg)
3. PSU: http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg (http://solderman.fatabur.se/ada/ADA%20%20PSU.jpg)

 He made some mods on the ICs and I am not sure if I understood what he did,  so I post my voltages as in his layout:

MN3007
1. 14.65
2.  7.05
3.  8.60
4.   0.90   
5.  0.00
6.  7.05
7.  7.63
8.  7.66

CD4007
10. 5.66
11. 7.33
12. 0.09
14. 14.35

CD4047
 1. 14.05
 2.  0.09
 3.  7.37
 4. 14.05   
 5. 14.05
 6. 14.05
 7.  0.00
 8.  0.00
 9.  0.00
10.  7.05
11.  7.05
12.  0.00
13. 14.08
14. 14.20

CD4049
 All seems as yours, with the only difference that pin 16 is NC on solderman's layout.

IC1 from the LFO part
 1.  5.00 - 8.15
 2.  7.35
 3.  7.00 - 9.70
 4. 13.70   
 5.  6.80
 6.  6.70
 7.  8.10 - 11.00
 8. 12.40
 9.  4.00
10. 10.00
11.  0.00
12. 13.50   
13. 12.30
14. 12.30
 
IC2 from the LFO part
1.  5.50
2.  6.90
3.  6.90
4.   0.00   
5.  6.80
6.  6.80
7.  6.80
8. 13.60

IC1 from the AUDIO part
 1.  8.50
 2.  8.50
 3.  8.50
 4. 14.10   
 5.  7.50 - 8.10
 6.  8.00 - 9.30
 7.  7.00 - 9.80
 8.  8.80 - 10.00
 9.  8.80 - 10.00
10.  3.64
11.  0.00
12. 7.10 - 7.60   
13. 12.40
14. 12.40
 
IC2 from the AUDIO part
1.  NC
2.  NC
3.  NC
4.   0.00   
5.  7.14
6.  8.80 - 10.00
7.  8.80 - 10.00
8. 14.35

IC3 A-B from the AUDIO part
1.  9.00 -  9.80
2.  9.00 - 10.00
3.  8.80 - 10.00
4.   0.00   
5.  9.00 - 10.00
6.  8.00 -  8.80
7.  8.80 - 10.00
8. 14.30

IC4 2b-2c from the AUDIO part
1.  8.40 - 10.00
2.  8.40 - 10.00
3.  8.40 - 10.00
4.   0.00   
5.  8.40 - 10.00
6.  8.40 - 10.00
7.  8.40 - 10.00
8. 14.30

I don't have many expectations to debug it, but I give it a try!

Thank you very very very much oldschoolanalog!





Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 30, 2010, 12:36:57 AM
I copied this post of oldschoolanalog from the thread "MN3007 ADA Flanger clone" to avoid confusions and to keep all the thing clean!

OK, first things first.
1: Would somebody/anybody please take the schematic this is based on (Charlie's) and relabel all the IC's & pin #'s (where applicable) to match the solderman layout designations? I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to rev. engineer the layout into schematic form. Having a properly designated schematic would go a long way to assist troubleshooting. Thank You.
2: IC2 Audio board. Pins 1, 2 & 3 should not be left floating. That op amp should be disabled. (Use the search function ;))
3: To avoid mass confusion at a later date I respectfully request that the troubleshooting posts for the solderman unit in this thread be moved to the "Worlsd Smallest Flangers" thread. Nice to keep all the info in it's proper place. Plus, there is already some good troubleshooting info there. :icon_cool:
The good news (without knowing how your controls are set) is your 4007, 4047, 4049 & 3007 are all within an acceptable range as compared to a working unit.
The bad news is I started to get a headache and had to stop for now. (See #1 above)
I'll have another go at it tomorrow.
All the Best!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 30, 2010, 12:51:43 AM
I copied this post of oldschoolanalog from the thread "MN3007 ADA Flanger clone" to avoid confusions and to keep all the thing clean!

OK, first things first.
1: Would somebody/anybody please take the schematic this is based on (Charlie's) and relabel all the IC's & pin #'s (where applicable) to match the solderman layout designations? I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to rev. engineer the layout into schematic form. Having a properly designated schematic would go a long way to assist troubleshooting. Thank You.
2: IC2 Audio board. Pins 1, 2 & 3 should not be left floating. That op amp should be disabled. (Use the search function ;))
3: To avoid mass confusion at a later date I respectfully request that the troubleshooting posts for the solderman unit in this thread be moved to the "Worlsd Smallest Flangers" thread. Nice to keep all the info in it's proper place. Plus, there is already some good troubleshooting info there. :icon_cool:
The good news (without knowing how your controls are set) is your 4007, 4047, 4049 & 3007 are all within an acceptable range as compared to a working unit.
The bad news is I started to get a headache and had to stop for now. (See #1 above)
I'll have another go at it tomorrow.
All the Best!


1. I could try to relabel the ICs and pins, but I am not sure that it will be OK.
2. IC2 from the Audio board is added by solderman ("It’s any dual Op-Amp  TL072 etc. for producing Vb bias to the audio part and separate the Vb bias from the LFO to avoid LFO ticking"), so I think that it's OK to have the pins 1,2,3 unconnected (he used only a half of the dual op-amp).
3. Sorry for the inconvenience, I hope that I (partially) fixed my posting mistake (with a little help from an admin it could be fixed 100%).

I'm glad to hear the good news (my pots are set as you indicated in your post) and I'm sorry for the headache!

Thank you very very....very much!

Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on June 30, 2010, 01:01:01 AM
Please read this:
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN1957.pdf
Figure 3a.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on June 30, 2010, 02:45:03 AM
Please read this:
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN1957.pdf
Figure 3a.


Woow...very bad...what's the cure for this, something like in figure 1?  If yes, what value for R?

Thank you!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Cliff Schecht on June 30, 2010, 07:34:40 PM
Please read this:
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN1957.pdf
Figure 3a.

Kind of a simple minded app note. They do fail to mention that in Figure 3D if you are using bipolar power than this method works fine. It holds the output at a known state (0V) and consumes less power than the resistor divider method. Silly Maxim!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on June 30, 2010, 11:16:16 PM
Kind of a simple minded app note. They do fail to mention that in Figure 3D if you are using bipolar power than this method works fine. It holds the output at a known state (0V) and consumes less power than the resistor divider method. Silly Maxim!
Actually it is mentioned in the paragraph above figure 1. ;)
Anybody have an idea how to calculate those R's?
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Thomeeque on July 01, 2010, 06:00:27 AM
Kind of a simple minded app note. They do fail to mention that in Figure 3D if you are using bipolar power than this method works fine. It holds the output at a known state (0V) and consumes less power than the resistor divider method. Silly Maxim!
Actually it is mentioned in the paragraph above figure 1. ;)
Anybody have an idea how to calculate those R's?
Thanks!

 I'm not sure how to "calculate" it, but I would probably choose something like 470k~2M2, you just need reference VCC/2 voltage for almost none load (just for one positive opamp input). Btw. IMO* if you have already Vref = VCC/2 bus in your circuit, you can omit R's and just hang positive opamp input to this Vref bus.

 T.

Edit: *It's in the text as well: "Additionally, the non-inverting terminal can be connected to another voltage elsewhere in the circuit that is within the input common-mode voltage range of the device, thereby eliminating the need for the two resistors in Figure 1."
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: solderman on July 01, 2010, 12:51:14 PM
Hi gigimarga
I really admire your effort and attempts to get this one to work. I feel a bit guilty cause I have made the PCB layout. I never got my threshold to work so I cut the trace right under R29.
Here is a translation table between my boards and Charlie's. I hope it can help you together with the voltage/pin submitted by Oldschoolanalog. I have focus on the OP-Amps since the rest is quite obvious. The only Op-Apm not on the matrix is the Vb one (IC2 on my AUDIO board) but it should have ½ +V that is aprox ~7.5V at pin 6 and 7.

    Charlie's      Solderman      
IC   Pin   IC   Pin   Board
1   1   1   7   AUDIO
1   2   1   6   AUDIO
1   3   1   5   AUDIO
1   4   POS   POS   AUDIO
1   5   1   3   AUDIO
1   6   1   2   AUDIO
1   7   1   1   AUDIO
1   8   1   14   AUDIO
1   9   1   13   AUDIO
1   10   1   12   AUDIO
1   11   GND   GND   AUDIO
1   12   1   10   AUDIO
1   13   1   9   AUDIO
1   14   1   8   AUDIO
            
2   1   1   13   LFO
2   2   1   14   LFO
2   3   1   12   LFO
2   4   POS      
2   5   4   5   AUDIO
2   6   4   6   AUDIO
2   7   4   7   AUDIO
2   8   4   1   AUDIO
2   9   4   2   AUDIO
2   10   4   3   AUDIO
2   11   GND      
2   12   2   5   LFO
2   13   2   6   LFO
2   14   2   7   LFO
            
3   1   3   7   AUDIO
3   2   3   6   AUDIO
3   3   3   5   AUDIO
3   4   POS      
3   5   3   3   AUDIO
3   6   3   2   AUDIO
3   7   3   1   AUDIO
3   8   2   1   LFO
3   9   2   2   LFO
3   10   2   3   LFO
3   11   GDN      
3   12   1   10   LFO
3   13   1   9   LFO
3   14   1   8   LFO
            
4   1   1   1   LFO
4   2   1   2   LFO
4   3   1   3   LFO
4   4   GND      
4   5   1   5   LFO
4   6   1   6   LFO
4   7   1   7   LFO
4   8   POS      
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Cliff Schecht on July 01, 2010, 06:09:57 PM
Kind of a simple minded app note. They do fail to mention that in Figure 3D if you are using bipolar power than this method works fine. It holds the output at a known state (0V) and consumes less power than the resistor divider method. Silly Maxim!
Actually it is mentioned in the paragraph above figure 1. ;)
Anybody have an idea how to calculate those R's?
Thanks!

I figured it was in there somewhere, just couldn't find it :D.

For the R values, I'd go with something above 100k. Tomas has the right idea with the large resistor values he recommended. It's not so critical for us guitar players but for ultra-low power design, you'd go with large resistors to minimize power dissipated in the resistive divider. Since the IC's should be decoupled properly, induced noise in the resistors won't be a problem here.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: gigimarga on July 01, 2010, 06:27:53 PM
...............
I feel a bit guilty cause I have made the PCB layout.
...............

Hello solderman,

The remark above is the nicest that I heard this year :)
The only one which must to feel guilty it's me, because I stressed a couple of people with my questions and they lost their time due to my ignorance.

Today I had a very hard day at my job and the weekend seems to be likewise :(...so I don't know if I will have enough time to try to measure my voltages accordingly to your translations.

Anyway, I want to (re)thank a million times to all these fantastic people that help me, especially solderman and oldschoolanalog!

Best regards to all!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: oldschoolanalog on July 01, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
Thanks Tomas & Cliff.  :icon_cool:
Thank you solderman. That should help after the schematic is relabeled. Old farts like me need to work w/a schematic. Lists tend to make me dizzy. :icon_lol:
@ gigimarga: Stay cool. This will get done.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Cliff Schecht on July 01, 2010, 09:45:14 PM
I built the Ibanez flanger from Tonepad years ago in the case of a broken Metal Zone. I spent a long time trying to get it working and it never did. The one I built recently and retrofitted in the same case worked the first time :-/. Turned out one of the pots I used was bad, and it was purchased new!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: sugonidamaso on January 08, 2011, 03:08:41 AM
Hello Mr. Solderman and Everyone,
I am fascinated by your work. I'm new regarding this matter. My question is what's the OFFBOARD LAYOUT for this project? Newbie here. Thank you very much! And more power!
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: nordine on May 09, 2011, 11:12:18 PM
props for the top notch work, man

hearing the samples of the Ultraflanger (esp "extreme" setting), i remembered about its crooked waveform, if that could be adressed, that would be a BADASS flanger... as it is, i think its unusable at lower speeds/jet maneuvers.... tried to fix it once, but didn't have the knowledge... last insights i had was that it might get loaded down (cause its like a ramp waveform on low speed) by the manual section, any thoughts on this topic?
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Scruffie on April 17, 2012, 09:27:31 PM
Thanks’ for the kind words. They are a big help and inspires me to go on. I will not quit until the threshold part also works. And I have made a couple of errors in the layout that is NOT corrected. So its not verified even if it “almost” works. The layout warnings are;

-The threshold part has some error. Cut the trace between Q1 and R36/37 and the rest will work.
-The the D9 diode on the PSU is ( or was ) turned wrong on the pic on page 3 . It should have the catod to 18V
- The speed, Range and Manual pot has lug 1&3 reversed. This is only a real problem and has to be fixed on speed since it’s a  rev log. The others work but  backwards.
- There is a no pad for the wire for the Vb to the Enhance pot on the Audio PCB  

I was having a look at this thinking it'd be nice if the layout was finished and verified as i'd quite like an A/DA in a 1590BB my self.

I've been checking over your threshold section, I don't think there is any problem, it all matches Charlies schematic (infact it even misses an error where the 2010 schematic shows D6 being shorted).

But... you said -

The JFET is oriented for use of a 2N3819

I dunno about yours but mine wasn't G,S,D like your layout when I built the Moosapotamus board, it was S,G,D so if you're not getting much with a J201 (which Bajaman said he didn't) perhaps the 2N3819 orientated correctly will work better, if you orientated it wrong at all that is.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: lego4040 on August 19, 2013, 11:32:07 AM
Im going to be building this shortly, I just got a killer pcb etched by Haberdasher. Im looking at layout and it all seems pretty straight foward except a jumper im not sure about. I get the IC1,2 & 3 jumpers(Green colored) but there is a very light grey colored jumper wire from R33 to the positve leg of C19 is this a jumper or error on drawing? Id would hate to fry something
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Scruffie on August 19, 2013, 04:01:31 PM
Im going to be building this shortly, I just got a killer pcb etched by Haberdasher. Im looking at layout and it all seems pretty straight foward except a jumper im not sure about. I get the IC1,2 & 3 jumpers(Green colored) but there is a very light grey colored jumper wire from R33 to the positve leg of C19 is this a jumper or error on drawing? Id would hate to fry something
There's more than one flanger, which are you referring too? I can't see what you're saying on the A/DA one if you meant that though.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Brejna on October 20, 2013, 11:11:17 AM
Hi, is there BOM for ADA flanger?

Brane
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: StephenGiles on October 20, 2013, 01:07:37 PM
Probably, but easiest way is to write out a list from the circuit.
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: leito79 on February 17, 2016, 05:01:01 PM
This looks very promising but the layout and pcb files from solderman are no longer available....Can anyone post a mirror or reupload them? Thank You
Title: Re: The Worlsd smallest flangers....
Post by: Bunyaman on November 03, 2017, 07:15:40 PM
Helloo!! Have anyone a files from first post? Like it size!