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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: frequencycentral on March 29, 2010, 01:21:53 PM

Title: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 29, 2010, 01:21:53 PM
Got this on the breadboard right now, I've had it in mind for weeks but only just got around to trying it. It's basically a SHO with modifications running into a BM tonestack running into a 5840 submini pentode which has switchable triode/pentode mode. Embarrasingly enough, I don't have access to a microphone for a few days, so soundclips will have to wait. Quite versatile, with the 'Le Craquement' knob at minimum it functions as a tube based booster with the benefit of a nice flexible tonestack. Tweaking in some 'Le Craquement' overdrives the tube stage, with subtle variations available from the triode/pentode switch. I'm running it at 12 volts, should work well at 9 volts too but with a little less boost and gain on tap.

5840 submini pentodes are available from Aron's store: http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=49

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/LeCraquementThermionique2.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: doc_drop on March 29, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
I knew I just ordered a couple of Aron's 5840's for a good reason.  :icon_twisted:  I will have to breadboard this one up after I get TubeDROP off of there.

But one question. Pourquoi "Thermionique"?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: raulgrell on March 30, 2010, 10:27:16 PM
Quote from: doc_drop on March 29, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
I knew I just ordered a couple of Aron's 5840's for a good reason.  :icon_twisted:  I will have to breadboard this one up after I get TubeDROP off of there.

But one question. Pourquoi "Thermionique"?

I'll venture a guess: you heat the tubes to release electrons from the filament in the tubes... this makes ions...

and yeah... Therm = heat, ionique = ionic..

... ?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 31, 2010, 04:01:27 AM
The name is more interesting than the circuit?  :D

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermo%C3%AFonique
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Ben N on March 31, 2010, 05:35:44 AM
That looks fantastique, Rique! But damn... another must-build for the list! Now if I can only find that stash of mini-pentodes I have somewhere.
Mod-wise, I imagine it would work well with quite a few tonestacks: Bax or near-Bax, a la Colorsound Overdriver or Dr. Z Route 66, or Dumble "clean", with switches for "jazz" and deep and whatnot, or TMB, a la Trainwreck.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 31, 2010, 03:09:42 PM
Well, this is pretty nice, works well as a tube boost, treble boost and mild overdriven tube sound. There's more gain of course if the tonestack is bypassed. With this in mind, I thought I'd try another version, keeping to the basic concept of a SHO varient overdriving a tube stage with a BM type tonestack, but this time using a submini dual triode to isolate the tonestack and allow the tube stage to be driven harder by the SHO varient. I've just got some 6021, so I'll try it with both 6111 and 6021. This will be tomorrow's little experiment:

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/LeCraque6111.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 04, 2010, 02:58:31 PM
Ok a new take on the 5840 version. I'm in lurv with this one!

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/LeCraquementThermionique3.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Toney on April 05, 2010, 10:48:50 PM

Nice work Rick.
For those that Vero (go Vero!) there is a layout of the booster section in the Gallery. I'll marry it to the tranny-boost sections and post if I get the time.   http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Toneys-Album/Booster+5840.gif.html (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Toneys-Album/Booster+5840.gif.html)
I"m betting this thing really sizzles.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 09:08:23 AM
I got this up on my breadboard yesterday. First, let me say that even the first vesrion is my favorite low voltage tube circuit ever! The SHO input to the tube sounds great. I guess having 2 10M resistors on the front end does make a difference. :D

With Rick's "super-hot" mod, this little circuit can really crank out some overdriven tube sounds. I like the idea of having it switchable though, since you don't always want to clip your signal into scream territory.

My plan is to have this circuit in front of my Tube DROP circuit in a box.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83494.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83494.0)

Between the triode/pentode switch, the hot/superhot switch, the different gains hitting the 3 different tubes, etc. this will be my ultimate tube overdrive/distortion/or simple warmth front end...

But seriously, if you like tubes, play with this circuit. It is really, really sweeeeeeeeeeeet!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 06, 2010, 10:30:20 AM
Here's my layout, the tube is mount on the board, as are two of the pots, and the status LED. The tube will be visible through a slot in the top of the box, backlit by the blue LED when the effect is on.........

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/LCTPCB.gif)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/LCTPnP.gif)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 10:34:45 AM
I'm lovin' the ICI1 "chip". Nice cheapo socket for the NOS ole skool IC!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Ben N on April 06, 2010, 10:37:45 AM
Rick, does the tube get warm? I.e., can it be built into the enclosure or does it have to poke its little head up for some air?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 06, 2010, 10:48:37 AM
Quote from: Ben N on April 06, 2010, 10:37:45 AM
Rick, does the tube get warm? I.e., can it be built into the enclosure or does it have to poke its little head up for some air?

Well it doesn't have to poke it's little head out, but it's nice to see some action........ :icon_biggrin:  Tubes at these voltages get warm but not hot. Now the output triodes on my Superfly, with 185v hitting the plates, they get too hot to touch - mmm, nice!

Quote from: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 10:34:45 AM
I'm lovin' the ICI1 "chip". Nice cheapo socket for the NOS ole skool IC!

Yeah but a non standard width for an IC socket, unless you use SIL strips, mine will be soldered anyway.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: StereoKills on April 06, 2010, 11:19:38 AM
Very nice Rick!

So........got any soundclips on the way soon?  ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 11:42:44 AM
QuoteYeah but a non standard width for an IC socket, unless you use SIL strips, mine will be soldered anyway.

I thought it was just a standard 8 pin IC socket? It seems like that would work well?  ???

I just solder these little guys myself, but I liked the idea of a cheap socket since I have tons of those from a Futurlec value pack...
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 06, 2010, 01:19:20 PM
Oh, re the above layout - I've got a 'blind spot' with depicting 7806 type devices in DIYLC (remember the Clari?), I guess because they don't have a flat side, anyway something to watch out for.

Quote from: StereoKills on April 06, 2010, 11:19:38 AM
So........got any soundclips on the way soon?  ;D

I foolishly left the microphones at the rehearsal space, so I'll record some on Friday.

Quote from: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 11:42:44 AM
QuoteYeah but a non standard width for an IC socket, unless you use SIL strips, mine will be soldered anyway.

I thought it was just a standard 8 pin IC socket? It seems like that would work well?  ???

I just solder these little guys myself, but I liked the idea of a cheap socket since I have tons of those from a Futurlec value pack...

No, it's only 3 pads across, as opposed to 4. I have used SIL strip as submini tube sockets in a few Murder One builds though, this one also has an internal LED to help in siting the tubes legs in the sockets - the guy wanted to try a few different tubes in the preamp section, 6111, 6021, 6112:

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/000_0001-30.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: doc_drop on April 06, 2010, 03:30:33 PM
Ah, I see. It only jumps one row, not two.

Anyway, thanks for the layout. Now I won't have to work up a perf layout 'cause I can just use yours! ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: phector2004 on April 21, 2010, 08:50:56 PM
don't wanna be a pain in the anus, but any sound clips??  ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 22, 2010, 01:12:43 PM
It's gonna be a couple of weeks before I build mine, and it's not on my breadboard anymore - that has something even more exciting in it right now. I should catch up with my current build commitments in a couple of weeks, then I'll build Le Craquement. I dunno if doc-drop built his yet? Doc?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: phector2004 on April 22, 2010, 05:58:26 PM
nice  :icon_biggrin:

just a side thought...

can you drop that triode in to replace a tranny? (with re-biasing, of course!)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on April 23, 2010, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: phector2004 on April 22, 2010, 05:58:26 PM
can you drop that triode in to replace a tranny? (with re-biasing, of course!)

I don't understand the question.......
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: phector2004 on April 23, 2010, 05:27:32 PM
sorry about that, didn't word it too well... i blame caffeine + lack of sleep!

Would a 7806 triode be a suitable replacement for a transistor? Or do they have a different function altogether?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: NQbass7 on May 05, 2010, 03:25:36 PM
Rick,

Where'd that superheated section come from?  I'm kinda curious what that does/how it works.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on May 05, 2010, 03:41:17 PM
Quote from: NQbass7 on May 05, 2010, 03:25:36 PM
Rick,

Where'd that superheated section come from?  I'm kinda curious what that does/how it works.

Superheated SHO (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83692.0)

BSIAB (http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_bsiab2_sc.pdf)

Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: NQbass7 on May 05, 2010, 04:17:03 PM
*Doh*  I knew it looked familiar.  I actually even looked at the app note in the AN-32 datasheet that the mini-booster was based off of while trying to figure it out.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: jbord39 on May 30, 2010, 04:24:55 PM
I am planning on building this pedal (the second version posted with superheated/hot setting) but was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.  The 7806 is going to be hard for me to come by, so would a 5.1V zener and .7V silicon diode in series to ground work; or should I just use an adjustable voltage regulator?

Also, would a 7V zener and 3x .7V silicon diodes work for the 9.1V zener?  

I don't have the 2n5457; would any of these transistors work in its place?

2N5087
2N3906
2N3904
2N5089
J201 FET

Thanks,

John
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Renegadrian on May 30, 2010, 05:57:37 PM
Quote from: jbord39 on May 30, 2010, 04:24:55 PM
I am planning on building this pedal (the second version posted with superheated/hot setting) but was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.  The 7806 is going to be hard for me to come by, so would a 5.1V zener and .7V silicon diode in series to ground work; or should I just use an adjustable voltage regulator?

Also, would a 7V zener and 3x .7V silicon diodes work for the 9.1V zener?  

I don't have the 2n5457; would any of these transistors work in its place?

2N5087
2N3906
2N3904
2N5089
J201 FET

Thanks,

John

J201s and 2N5457s are easily interchangeable...
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: jbord39 on May 31, 2010, 09:00:34 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on May 31, 2010, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: jbord39 on May 30, 2010, 04:24:55 PM
The 7806 is going to be hard for me to come by, so would a 5.1V zener and .7V silicon diode in series to ground work; or should I just use an adjustable voltage regulator?

Also, would a 7V zener and 3x .7V silicon diodes work for the 9.1V zener?  

You could use a 7805 with a 1n4148 between pin 2 and ground instead of the 7806. That would get you 6.2 volts.

Instead of the zener you could use red LED (as in the ROG Peppermill) or even a 1n418 (I believe?).
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on August 03, 2010, 09:20:09 AM
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/000_0007-5.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/4.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/8.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: NQbass7 on August 03, 2010, 09:32:41 AM
So how's it sound??
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on August 03, 2010, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: NQbass7 on August 03, 2010, 09:32:41 AM
So how's it sound??

Just as I remember it. It's been a while since I breadboarded it. I'll get some clips up later this week.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: therecordingart on August 03, 2010, 11:15:01 AM
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 03, 2010, 09:20:09 AM
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/000_0007-5.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/4.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/8.jpg)

What did you use to make that cut out in the enclosure?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on August 03, 2010, 11:17:43 AM
I drilled four 5mm holes, used a 4mm round file to open them into a slot, then used a flat file to finish it.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: therecordingart on August 03, 2010, 11:20:22 AM
Quote from: frequencycentral on August 03, 2010, 11:17:43 AM
I drilled four 5mm holes, used a 4mm round file to open them into a slot, then used a flat file to finish it.

Jesus. That cut looks so clean you'd think it was done by a CNC.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 13, 2010, 02:13:40 PM
Hi,
I breadboarded this thing and found it was too gainy (too much fuzz like!) wit 1M grid leak resistor so I went down with the resistor until I found the best value to my taste: 100k.

This demos are made to show extreme settings of this pedal.

Both demos:
- Pentode Mode
- Godin Exit 22 Guitar -> Breadboard -> Yamaha F20 Amp -> SM57 -> Presonus Audiobox Interface->PC.

Demo 1: Hot Mode - Gain at Min - Moving Tone control from Min to Max

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/Le%20Craquement%20Clean%20-%20Tone.mp3

Demo 2: Superheated Mode - Gain at Max - Moving Tone Control from Min to Max

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/Le%20Craquement%20Max%20Gain%20-%20Tone.mp3

Regards,
Fernando.-
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: richon on September 14, 2010, 08:54:27 AM
excelent....

i liked the "low gain" mode more than the other, as with "max gain" it sounded to fuzzy...


nice demo!

why can't the god of tubes give me 2 tubes my mail?  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:


wena Fernando!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 14, 2010, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: richon on September 14, 2010, 08:54:27 AM
why can't the god of tubes give me 2 tubes my mail?  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_mrgreen:
You have to keep praying.... in binary.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: richon on September 14, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
01010010 01101001 01100011 01101000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101110 01110100 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101101 01101001 01100011 01110010 01101111 00100000 01110100 01110101 01100010 01100101 00101100 00100000 01110000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100001 00100001 00100001 00100001



"Richon want's a micro tube"
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 15, 2010, 03:03:30 PM
Just finished this genius pedal.

I'm loving its versatility as it can go from a TOTALLY CLEAN tube sound to a harshy fuzz with a lot of gain and passing through great overdrive sounds!

I noted it was thought as an amp because it has a dual gain mode preamp, a dual pole tone control and an output tube that's being driven for those two things... Beautiful sound.

If anybody was asking about clean tube sound boost IT IS THE ONE. I was very happy with my modified THOR for its clean compressed sound until I tried this (not that Thor is a bad pedal, tough)

Thanks for your work, Rick, impressive pedal for such few components.

Pics!

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6362/72669649.jpg)

(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8220/78102210.jpg)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4057/78857972d.jpg)

Regards,
Fernando.-
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Taylor on September 15, 2010, 03:15:14 PM
Wow, that's nice. Most of the time when I see pedals I like, I think, "I should build one like that." But here I just want to buy that one from you.  :)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on September 15, 2010, 03:19:46 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 15, 2010, 03:15:14 PM
Wow, that's nice. Most of the time when I see pedals I like, I think, "I should build one like that." But here I just want to buy that one from you.  :)

Yeah slade just put my effort to shame.... :icon_redface:  He is truly a pedal-making-deity. Even I want his instead of mine. ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 15, 2010, 06:20:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 15, 2010, 03:15:14 PM
Wow, that's nice. Most of the time when I see pedals I like, I think, "I should build one like that." But here I just want to buy that one from you.  :)
Hey! Thanks, Taylor. I'm making another one to sell (under Rick's authorization and after offering him hundreds of etched PCBs.... joking!) if you're interested ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: phector2004 on September 15, 2010, 07:34:39 PM
wow! You never cease to impress, Slade

It's got a real nice retro look to it, and the border makes it look a lot like it has a metal faceplate
Interesting vent pattern too

It's a shame... I wanted to build this, but now I know mine's gonna suck!  :(
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: SpencerPedals on September 15, 2010, 07:55:52 PM
I'm getting a broken link on the superheated version of the clips.  Anyone else?  That clean treble boost sounds killer; I'm excited to hear what the rest sounds like.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 15, 2010, 08:23:15 PM
Try now, please, just re-uploaded the file, the link is the same.
I'm recording something through my cab sim soon showing more settings.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: SpencerPedals on September 15, 2010, 08:35:05 PM
Works now.  Thank you, sir.  Sounds very crossover distorted in the superheated mode.  This would be the one that pulls me into submini territory, if I ever get all of my populated boards from the too-hot-to-solder summer boxed up.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Labaris on September 16, 2010, 12:35:36 AM
Congratulations Rick, it's a great sounding pedal.
I'm really starting to like tubes... :)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 17, 2010, 01:56:18 AM
Hey, I've just recorded a mix of some settings with the pedal through my cab sim.
Rythm guitars L and R are in Triode/Hot mode. Lead is Pentode/Superheated mode.

I just recorded the first thing that came to my mind when inserted the drum loop... and it's 2 am here... Ok, sorry for the bad playing :icon_lol:

Here it is:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/Mix.mp3

Cheers!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Kearns892 on September 17, 2010, 02:03:48 PM
I noticed Aron no longer carries the subminis in his store. I ran some quick searches on google and other common component suppliers but couldn't find anything. Any suggestions on where to source these?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on September 17, 2010, 02:06:37 PM
Small Bear $8.25: http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=807

.....or try Ebay, there are some currently listed in the UK and USA.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 17, 2010, 07:24:25 PM
Here's the layout and PCB I used, we planned this along with Rick, it's a little smaller than the other and fits better in a 1290B.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/Craquement.jpg)

Enjoy!
Fernando.-
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Hupla on September 18, 2010, 09:16:56 AM
Quote from: Slade on September 17, 2010, 01:56:18 AM
Hey, I've just recorded a mix of some settings with the pedal through my cab sim.
Rythm guitars L and R are in Triode/Hot mode. Lead is Pentode/Superheated mode.

I just recorded the first thing that came to my mind when inserted the drum loop... and it's 2 am here... Ok, sorry for the bad playing :icon_lol:

Here it is:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/Mix.mp3

Cheers!

Wow much prefer the sounds you got in that to your other recordings. I thought it sounded too much like a fuzz but Im really liking those sounds now.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: fatfoohy on September 18, 2010, 10:44:39 PM
Could i use a 7805 instead of a 7806? smallbear doesnt have a 7806, or is there another alternative to a 6 volt regulator i could do a simple voltage divider instead, but im not sure, any ideas?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on September 19, 2010, 06:07:20 AM
Quote from: fatfoohy on September 18, 2010, 10:44:39 PM
Could i use a 7805 instead of a 7806? smallbear doesnt have a 7806, or is there another alternative to a 6 volt regulator i could do a simple voltage divider instead, but im not sure, any ideas?

The alternative to using a 7806 it to use a 7805 with 2 x 1n4148 between pin 2 and ground. As each diode has a forward voltage of 0.6v, that will get you 6.2v at the output of the 7805, which is pretty much ideal for the tube's heater.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: fatfoohy on September 19, 2010, 02:58:49 PM
ahhh, thank you very much! i cant wait to get this pedal working, im going to use it on bass, so hopefully it'll handle it well, i'll post samples if you guys are interested once im done
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on September 19, 2010, 03:12:29 PM
I am looking for a good tube project right now but I only have some 12AX7s laying around. Could that tube be used in this build? I am new to tube builds so go easy please.  :-[
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on September 19, 2010, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 19, 2010, 03:12:29 PM
I am looking for a good tube project right now but I only have some 12AX7s laying around. Could that tube be used in this build? I am new to tube builds so go easy please.  :-[

12AX7 will not work in this circuit, 12AX7 is a high mu dual triode, whereas 5840 is a submini pentode. Though it would be possible (with a little work) to do something similar with 12AX7 if you were to base it on the 6111 Thermionique schematic I posted on page 1. The 12AX7 would however really need more than 12 volts at the anodes show it's true potential. For a cool 12AX7 based circuit take a look at Renegadrian's Tube Star: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74888.0
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on September 19, 2010, 03:57:37 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on September 19, 2010, 03:50:38 PM
12AX7 will not work in this circuit, 12AX7 is a high mu dual triode, whereas 5840 is a submini pentode. Though it would be possible (with a little work) to do something similar with 12AX7 if you were to base it on the 6111 Thermionique schematic I posted on page 1. The 12AX7 would however really need more than 12 volts at the anodes show it's true potential. For a cool 12AX7 based circuit take a look at Renegadrian's Tube Star: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74888.0

Thanks for the heads up Rick. I read over the thread and sadly, it appears that the design is based on the 12AU7 or 12AT7s  :'(

Any other ideas with the AX in mind?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: fatfoohy on September 19, 2010, 04:46:53 PM
hmmm.....reading the datasheet for a 1n4001, and someone double check me, it seems to have a 1 volt forward voltage, that'd be better than having to use 2 diodes imo, someone please check my findings though
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on September 20, 2010, 09:13:38 PM
Here's another thing I've just recorded with the pedal and my Flashback Delay Deluxe (http://ruzguitargear.blogspot.com/2010/01/flashback-delay-deluxe.html). I was looking for this kind of tone from a time now.. I'm so glad I built it!

I tried to play 'Mr. Oysterhead's solo (track 2 of The Grand Pecking Order album) ;D

Etchmaster fingers > Godin Exit 22 > Thermionique (at 9V) > Flashback Delay Deluxe > Yamaha F20 SS amp > Celestion Greenback 12" Speaker > SM57 > Presonus Audiobox > PC

:icon_mrgreen:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/ThermoFlashback%20Tone.mp3

Cheers!
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 16, 2011, 04:13:20 PM
Was revisiting this thread and found no answer to my question so I figured I would revive it!  ;D

Basically, the thread talks about putting 12V and 9V into the circuit however, I am wondering how it will handle >12VDC  ???

If I were to put over 12VDC (say 18V) would there be a problem?

I looked at datasheets for the 5840 tube however, I could not find any MAX voltage in values.

Anyone have an idea of the max headroom there is for this circuit?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: juansolo on March 16, 2011, 04:36:47 PM
165V on the anode plate, 6.3V for the heaters.

I've run them at about 35-40V with a charge pump from a 12V supply.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 16, 2011, 06:55:41 PM
Here's another of mine. This one was designed to run from 9 volts, and has a charge pump (the perf by the 3pdt) to supply just the tube with 18 volts, the MOSFET stage is running from 9 volts.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/967492/Thermionic%201.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/967492/Thermionic%202.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 16, 2011, 09:12:52 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on March 16, 2011, 06:55:41 PM
Here's another of mine. This one was designed to run from 9 volts, and has a charge pump (the perf by the 3pdt) to supply just the tube with 18 volts, the MOSFET stage is running from 9 volts.

Looks fantastic as ever Rick!  ;)

Would you mind sharing how you implemented the charge pump circuit? A layout possibly?

Thanks  ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 17, 2011, 01:57:58 PM
The charge pump feeds the resistors at pins 5 and 7 of the 5840, instead of them being connected to the main +ve supply rail. TBH I've built that charge pump circuit so many times that I just perfed it up without a layout. Madbean's Road Rage PCB springs to mind if you wanna go that way. I've now designed a layout with the charge pump and the main circuit integrated onto the same PCB, but this is one of those rare occasions when I'm keeping it to myself, as I'm offering this pedal through my website.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 17, 2011, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on March 17, 2011, 01:57:58 PM
I've now designed a layout with the charge pump and the main circuit integrated onto the same PCB, but this is one of those rare occasions when I'm keeping it to myself, as I'm offering this pedal through my website.

I completely understand this Rick. There is no justification needed because if it were not for you, there would be A LOT missing from this forum! You have contributed SO MUCH that there should be no need for explanations!

Thanks for the heads up on the charge pump idea. Off to the drawing board...  ;)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: phector2004 on March 17, 2011, 02:43:04 PM
Hey Rick,

What does it sound like with more voltage?

I think an on-off-on toggle or a rotary would be a cool addition to tack on diode-capacitor stages to the MAX1044. To bump the tube up from 9V --> 18V --> 36v, or something of the sort. Unless of course it gets the charge pump angry  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Ben N on March 17, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: Slade on September 20, 2010, 09:13:38 PM
Here's another thing I've just recorded with the pedal and my Flashback Delay Deluxe (http://ruzguitargear.blogspot.com/2010/01/flashback-delay-deluxe.html). I was looking for this kind of tone from a time now.. I'm so glad I built it!

I tried to play 'Mr. Oysterhead's solo (track 2 of The Grand Pecking Order album) ;D

Etchmaster fingers > Godin Exit 22 > Thermionique (at 9V) > Flashback Delay Deluxe > Yamaha F20 SS amp > Celestion Greenback 12" Speaker > SM57 > Presonus Audiobox > PC

:icon_mrgreen:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3565959/ThermoFlashback%20Tone.mp3

Cheers!
Wow, that sounds good! This is really a must-build.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 21, 2011, 10:43:42 AM
Any idea how much current this circuit is pulling?

I was wondering if a battery could be used  ???

OR.... would this circuit drain a battery quickly?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Slade on March 21, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
Only the heater works with 150mA, I think it's not a good choice to use batteries with this one.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 21, 2011, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Slade on March 21, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
Only the heater works with 150mA, I think it's not a good choice to use batteries with this one.

Thanks Slade.

I would only need the 9V battery in case of emergency or loss of power from a wall wart or PS.

Just wondering if it could handle the load even for only 5 to 10 minutes.
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 23, 2011, 08:32:36 AM
Has anyone tried using transistors OTHER THAN the BS170 and 2N5457 that the design calls for?

Got this built up yesterday and I really liked it's flexability and sound but I would like to try to "smooth it out" just a bit and I was wondering if other combinations of transistors sounded different and/or better  ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on March 23, 2011, 02:44:29 PM
2N7000 is a replacement for the BS170 IIR (though the pinout is a mirror image). I guess most FETs would work in the 2n5457 position, I've got a Thermionic here with socketted trannies so I guess I should try some others.....
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 23, 2011, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on March 23, 2011, 02:44:29 PM
2N7000 is a replacement for the BS170 IIR (though the pinout is a mirror image). I guess most FETs would work in the 2n5457 position, I've got a Thermionic here with socketted trannies so I guess I should try some others.....

Thanks Rick.  ;)

I fired this up last night and I do like the Pentode/Superheated mode (I used a DPDT switch instead of 2 SPDTs).

In the Triode/Hot mode it sounds more like a booster than an OD. I guess the OD is very subtle.

When in Pent/Superheated mode, the OD gets grainy and crackled at the top end of the pot. I would like to smooth it out.... hence the attempt at different transistors.

Spectacular design though!!  ;D
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: vendettav on May 28, 2011, 04:14:48 AM
thins thing looks freaking kickass!!!
gonna try and see if i can come up with any tubez
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: ACS on May 28, 2011, 05:33:03 AM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 21, 2011, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Slade on March 21, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
Only the heater works with 150mA, I think it's not a good choice to use batteries with this one.

Thanks Slade.

I would only need the 9V battery in case of emergency or loss of power from a wall wart or PS.

Just wondering if it could handle the load even for only 5 to 10 minutes.

Old question I know, but an alkaline 9V battery is around 550mAh, so you could expect 3ish hours of operation from a ne one at that current draw...
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: frequencycentral on July 27, 2011, 02:03:42 PM
My tame shred master Rich Russell did me some soundclips: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/967492/Thermionic%20Montage.mp3

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/967492/Stone%20Etch.jpg)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: hobo_hephew on August 31, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
Really liked the soundclips you guys posted of this one, so I tried to build the craquement without the tone control yesterday, using the schematic below, but it crackles and sputter like crazy. So, did I remove too much/ too little, or does it somehow need re-biasing when the tone control is removed?

(http://spaljedrommar.se/TEMP/craquement.png)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: junlais on July 28, 2012, 12:39:53 PM
Hello this is my Thermionic, wonderfull diy project, Thanks Rick.
(http://C:%5CUsers%5CAlfredo%5CDesktop%5Csubmini)
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: junlais on July 28, 2012, 12:44:47 PM
Please, how I can upload pics?
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: artifus on July 28, 2012, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: junlais on July 28, 2012, 12:44:47 PM
Please, how I can upload pics?

google image hosting (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=image+hosting). choose a host. upload pic. make sure it is set to public and not private. view uploaded pic in browser. right click on uploaded pic and select copy image url or copy link address. in reply or post edit field select the image icon to insert image tags and right click or ctrl v to paste the copied url between them. it should end on .jpg or .png or .gif or some such depending on file type. click preview to see if it works. if successful click post.

*spelling edit*
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: junlais on July 29, 2012, 06:01:19 PM
Ok, there is my Le Craquement Thermionique :(http://[url=http://postimage.org/image/973kj2dqr/%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://s13.postimage.org/973kj2dqr/16072012845.jpg)[/url]

(http://s13.postimage.org/jikipgutv/16072012849.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jikipgutv/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/p9ap372tv/16072012850.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p9ap372tv/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/ardhv7bir/16072012855.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ardhv7bir/)[/img]
Title: Re: "Le Craquement Thermionique" !!
Post by: giappui on July 25, 2013, 04:00:35 PM
can i use 5678 or 6872 also modifing something?