Here's a place for questions specifically about building the Echo Base (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.0) with the PCB I designed (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=83525.0). That way I can check this thread for questions directed at me, while keeping the Echo Base thread uncluttered.
Here is the build PDF (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Taylor/).
Quote from: thehoj on April 22, 2010, 06:31:40 PM
Also, what is the correct orientation of the pots? Do they go in on the top side just like all the other components? Meaning that all of the components will be facing the top of the enclosure and when opening the bottom of the enclosure the soldered side of the components is visable.. ?
Well, that's up to you, depending on how you're orienting your board and what size box you're using. Here are 2 possible ways:
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3947/potorientation2.th.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/potorientation2.jpg/)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5261/echobasepotorientation.th.jpg) (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/echobasepotorientation.jpg/)
The first might fit better in a 1590BB. The second is how I have mine and works best for a 125B.
Here's mine in a 125B. This is my prototype PCB, which is why it's green. I used the small Alpha stomps because I had them laying around, but 2 blue 3PDTs will fit in there just fine. The toggle with ribbon cable is the Tails switch. The extra stomp switch will be selectable using the other toggle - depending on the setting of this toggle, the extra stomp will either turn on/off modulation, or make the delay self-oscillate. Haven't gotten around to wiring this yet, but if anyone's interested and can't figure it out, I'll post my diagram for how I plan to achieve that.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1899/myechobase.th.jpg) (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/myechobase.jpg/)
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7307/myechobaseguts.th.jpg) (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/myechobaseguts.jpg/)
Quote from: thehoj on April 22, 2010, 11:11:24 PM
Cool Thanks.
I'm going to keep posting some of my experiences with building this in this thread if anyone else is interested.. If you want me to stop then that's cool too ( I can PM instead )
I just did something silly with the build though. Well it was a two step dumb move. 1) I bought a 7805 instead of a 78L05 so it's the 3A 5v regulator and it sits too tall on the board when I want to put it into the enclosure.
So I unsoldered it thinking I could bend the pins and attach it to the the back side of the board. But the little pads on the top side of the pcb came off with the regulator..
I've been able to attach the regulator to the back side of the board since the pads were still on that side, and it's actually rigged up pretty well.
My only concern is, will the fact that the pads are gone on the top side affect any signal that uses the traces on the top side of the board? Or is it fine basically having the voltage regulator tacked onto the backside with no pads present on the top side?
Yes, that's a problem. When you're looking at the component side of the board, with the text right side up so you can read it, the rightmost pin on the regulator connects to the 9v rail (you can see the connection running to a thick line running around the edge of the PCB). This pin will need to be connected to 9v. I would connect it with a wire to the 9v entry on your power jack.
Okay thanks. Do the other two pins for that regulator run on the front at all? It's hard for me to see..
No, they're on the back.
Great! Thanks for the thread...I'm still waiting on the board, but that's ok...My questions is actually about the enclosure....do you have a drill template you used for the 125b? That would be very helpful...sure I could just measure, but why reinvent the wheel? (assuming such a wheel exists.)
No, I don't have a template unfortunately, didn't use one. You can tell in the picture that my pots are a little wonky. I generally eyeball my drilling because it doesn't bother me for things to be a little off.
So I've got it built outside of an enclosure right now. I initially had tons of hiss from the unit until I realized that I need the tails switch wired in, it does not seem to be optional.
It sounds really really good. The only thing I've noticed is that when I turn the LFO depth pot right down it for some reason starts to hiss quite badly. Also, if I have the Level pot way up I can hear a clock tick.
Is there much I can do about either of those things?
If you don't want the tails switch, just hardwire whichever selection you prefer by connecting a jumper from the center pad to whichever outer pad you want.
For stuff about noise, I'd consult the original Echo Base thread. I know it may be confusing, but there's a ton of discussion already there regarding those things so a read through that thread would be a great help.
Quote from: Taylor on April 23, 2010, 12:36:01 AM
No, I don't have a template unfortunately, didn't use one. You can tell in the picture that my pots are a little wonky. I generally eyeball my drilling because it doesn't bother me for things to be a little off.
That's cool...when my board gets here I'll play with it...Need to wait on some parts any way...Small Bear was out of stock on
1 pot I need!!
Quote from: MarkR2955 on April 23, 2010, 09:25:20 AM
That's cool...when my board gets here I'll play with it...Need to wait on some parts any way...Small Bear was out of stock on 1 pot I need!!
The 50k lin PCB mount? Yeah, I noticed that too. Though I was buying parts for the Tap Trem too, so I have to wait for the 10k lin PCB mount pots as well.
Quote from: NQbass7 on April 23, 2010, 09:58:44 AM
Quote from: MarkR2955 on April 23, 2010, 09:25:20 AM
That's cool...when my board gets here I'll play with it...Need to wait on some parts any way...Small Bear was out of stock on 1 pot I need!!
The 50k lin PCB mount? Yeah, I noticed that too. Though I was buying parts for the Tap Trem too, so I have to wait for the 10k lin PCB mount pots as well.
I just bought the solder lug version of that 50K pot and ran very short wires from it to the pcb.
Quote from: thehoj on April 23, 2010, 10:12:35 AM
[I just bought the solder lug version of that 50K pot and ran very short wires from it to the pcb.
If I wasn't waiting for the 10k ones as well, and some 5k lin PCB mount ones, and a dual 100k log pot for a Klon, then I probably would have. But I figured if I'm waiting for those anyways, might as well wait on these too. I already have 10 other things to try to find time to build...
Quote from: thehoj on April 23, 2010, 12:52:04 AM
So I've got it built outside of an enclosure right now. I initially had tons of hiss from the unit until I realized that I need the tails switch wired in, it does not seem to be optional.
If you leave out the tails switch the effect will be on all the time and the bypass won't work, it shouldn't make it noisy though.
Quote
It sounds really really good. The only thing I've noticed is that when I turn the LFO depth pot right down it for some reason starts to hiss quite badly.
I've no idea why that would happen, I don't think it's a problem that's been raised before. I would check the wiring of the LFO depth pot and the components around there.
Quote
Also, if I have the Level pot way up I can hear a clock tick.
That's normal I'm afraid, on mine I only hear it with the pot virtually all the way up and with longer delay times. A resistor between the board and the clockwise lug of the put would get rid of it, not sure what value. This would basically reduce the maximum volume which would hopefully mean the clock noise would be masked.
Quote from: thehoj on April 23, 2010, 10:12:35 AM
I just bought the solder lug version of that 50K pot and ran very short wires from it to the pcb.
That's what I was thinking - I have a 50k pot somewhere I can sub in for now...
Quote from: MarkR2955 on April 23, 2010, 09:25:20 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 23, 2010, 12:36:01 AM
No, I don't have a template unfortunately, didn't use one. You can tell in the picture that my pots are a little wonky. I generally eyeball my drilling because it doesn't bother me for things to be a little off.
That's cool...when my board gets here I'll play with it...Need to wait on some parts any way...Small Bear was out of stock on 1 pot I need!!
I try to support SmallBear as much as possible, but since they are out of stock, does anyone know of a Mouser part number for the PCB 50k pot?
I searched, but they don't seem to carry that type of pot.
Mouser doesn't carry those particular right angle PC mount Alphas. It's a bummer, I know, as far as I know, nobody else on the web has them. You may be able to find something with the same pin spacing on Mouser, though. If you do, please let me know.
I've been searching around for something echo base related, but haven't yet dug in to read the 48 page echo base thread yet. :icon_redface:
What I'd like to do is to have a momentary switch that punches in the guitar sound to the delay input while the switch is held down. Then when the switch is released the delay will continue to sound behind the dry guitar sound. Dub on the fly - like punching into an effects send on a mixing console. Would that be an easy mod to add to the Echo Base?
I think[i/] that all you need to do is connect a SPST momentary stomp to the Bypass pads and it will do that. My only hesitation is that I'm not positive whether the effect is on when the pads are connected (this is what you want) or when they are disconnected. I'm pretty sure it's set up the way you want. You can even connect the momentary switch in addition to the standard latching switch so you can have both regular bypass and dub punch-in.
Yeah that will work fine, the effect is on when the bypass wires are connected.
very easy build, the only problem i had was due to my poor soldering skill.
Quote from: MarkR2955 on April 26, 2010, 04:27:56 PM
I'm going to start building this tonight, and would like to add a PTAP at some point...would that work ok?
Supposedly, the PTAP does not work with the stock Echo Base, because the modulation messes up the accuracy of the delay.
It could be rigged up by disconnecting the modulation when you switch in the PTAP, but this would be fairly messy; I can't think of a really clean way to do that.
Alternatively, you could just try it and see. The tap tempo will not be very accurate, but it may work for what you want to do. Keep in mind that you can't put the time knob in the PCB the way it's supposed to go, you'd have to wire the digital pot of the PTAP there and connect the time knob to the PTAP board.
Quote from: chi_boy on April 25, 2010, 11:55:11 AM
I try to support SmallBear as much as possible, but since they are out of stock, does anyone know of a Mouser part number for the PCB 50k pot?
I searched, but they don't seem to carry that type of pot.
I emailed them, and they said they wouldn't have the pots in stock until around July 1st. Huge bummer. Part of the point of this board was to avoid wiring pots.
Buy the long legged ones and cut them down. http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=710
Quote from: Taylor on April 25, 2010, 03:26:35 PM
I think[i/] that all you need to do is connect a SPST momentary stomp to the Bypass pads and it will do that. My only hesitation is that I'm not positive whether the effect is on when the pads are connected (this is what you want) or when they are disconnected. I'm pretty sure it's set up the way you want. You can even connect the momentary switch in addition to the standard latching switch so you can have both regular bypass and dub punch-in.
So what I'd want to do is wire up the momentary switch "in parallel" to the latching one? Then when the latching one is shorting it's lugs the delay is always on. If the latching one is not shorting it's lugs (eg OFF) then the non-latching switch can be used to punch in the guitar sound to the delay line while the switch is held down. That would be ideal for what I was envisioning. :icon_wink:
Yep that's it :)
Quote from: ibodog on April 27, 2010, 01:29:59 PM
So what I'd want to do is wire up the momentary switch "in parallel" to the latching one? Then when the latching one is shorting it's lugs the delay is always on. If the latching one is not shorting it's lugs (eg OFF) then the non-latching switch can be used to punch in the guitar sound to the delay line while the switch is held down. That would be ideal for what I was envisioning. :icon_wink:
Yep, pretty much.
Now regarding the 50k pot, that is indeed a bummer. Cutting down the long pin pots would not work because you would be cutting off the pin that goes in the board. What I'd suggest is getting Small Bear's 50k reverse audio taper pot. The taper's wrong, but IMO this isn't a big deal, it would just give you more precision at longer speeds and less precision at shorter speeds, which is fine since usually longer times are meant to be rhythmic and shorter times aren't as time-specific. You could also use a 100k pot and put a resistor across it to change it to 50k, but this would shift the taper to be like a reverse audio anyway.
Finally, you could also just use a 100k. It will give you longer possible delays (which are noisier).
Or you could use a 100k with a 100k resistor across the lugs, giving you 50k, but with a slightly less severe reverse taper than a 50k rev log. :)
I love the idea of having a momentary bypass switch in parallel on this--slam a chord that'll tail while you superimpose leads overtop? Yes please! hah! Gotta build this sucker :icon_cool:
Quote from: jacobyjd on April 27, 2010, 02:02:55 PM
Or you could use a 100k with a 100k resistor across the lugs, giving you 50k, but with a slightly less severe reverse taper than a 50k rev log. :)
Hmm, I feel like I've seen that somewhere else on this page... ;)
Quote from: Taylor on April 27, 2010, 01:50:02 PMYou could also use a 100k pot and put a resistor across it to change it to 50k, but this would shift the taper to be like a reverse audio anyway.
Yeah, the momentary on switch is a cool idea, and an easy mod on this PCB. What a neat project, I always want to give it up to Slacker but I know he's tired of it. I keep finding new ways to use it all the time.
I'm really liking my dual-use stomp switch, mentioned earlier in this thread. It can either be a modulation on/off or a "max feedback" stomp, both of which are very useful. Put the time all the way up, play a note, then stomp it in max feedback mode, and you get a feedback note similar to an ebow or real guitar feedback (or like the Boss Feedbacker pedal). You can play little feedback melodies rather easily this way. The modulation kill is equally useful.
Quote from: Taylor on April 27, 2010, 02:07:56 PM
Quote from: jacobyjd on April 27, 2010, 02:02:55 PM
Or you could use a 100k with a 100k resistor across the lugs, giving you 50k, but with a slightly less severe reverse taper than a 50k rev log. :)
Hmm, I feel like I've seen that somewhere else on this page... ;)
Quote from: Taylor on April 27, 2010, 01:50:02 PMYou could also use a 100k pot and put a resistor across it to change it to 50k, but this would shift the taper to be like a reverse audio anyway.
Yeah, I totally got ninja'd there. That's what I get for leaving the reply window open for too long, then ignoring the 'someone else has already posted' warning. :icon_redface:
That's ok, I do that all the time. I often click to reply, then realize, "I am going to need a cup of coffee to give this reply the thought it requires." and start a-brewin'.
I'm wondering if it would be possible to get the LFO section to go faster. I kind of like the weirdo delay-ring-modulation thing I get at high speed and depth, but it would be cool to get it a little faster. One problem is that the PT2399 has an inherent "portamento" when changing times, so that at a certain point it won't change time any faster, and it starts losing depth as a result.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=77966.0;prev_next=prev
Reducing the value of the 1uF cap just above U1A in the schematic should make the LFO go (twice as?) faster. You could actually use two 1uf in series (= 0.5uF) for fast speeds and short one out with a switch to get normal speeds.
Here's a couple of shots of mine. It was a very easy build, I have to say I can now see the appeal of PCBs for bigger circuits.
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/ebfront.jpg)
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/ebpots.jpg)
As you might be able to see on the second photo I used a 100k linear pot with a 100k resistor across the lugs instead of a 50k. It works fine the taper doesn't feel weird or anything.
If you want to mess with the LFO speed changing the cap like Rick suggested is probably the best way if you want big changes in speed. If you just want to make it go a bit faster then reduce the 27k resistor, that will affect the top speed without really changing the slower speeds. I'm not sure how much faster it will go though, especially now it's got the decoupling cap on the output. Worth a shot though.
Hey Slacker..Nice build. Just wondering where you got those pots from??
Thanks Mate.
The pots and just about everything else are from Rapid.
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Resistors-Potentiometer/Control-Potentiometers/Miniature-16mm-potentiometers/65225 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Resistors-Potentiometer/Control-Potentiometers/Miniature-16mm-potentiometers/65225)
Welcome to the forum :)
Thanks and thanks! :icon_biggrin:
I'm planning to fit my Echo Base on a 4U rack panel and wonder if I can fit 5 knobs above each other?
It would be nice if someone could tell me the dimensions of Taylors PCB (metric if possible)!?
Plans are there's going to be other gems in the same rack too. Kinda like a 9V modular with guitar effects.
10.16 centimeters x 4.318 centimeters (4 x 1.7 inches). I believe 1 rack space is 1.75 inches so 4U would be 7 inches. Plenty of room to spare putting the knobs vertically, so you could add a few mods and still fit it all.
Quote from: Taylor on May 14, 2010, 09:23:35 PM
10.16 centimeters x 4.318 centimeters (4 x 1.7 inches). I believe 1 rack space is 1.75 inches so 4U would be 7 inches. Plenty of room to spare putting the knobs vertically, so you could add a few mods and still fit it all.
Thank you for that info!
The build pdf suggests boxed metal film caps, but I mostly have ceramic caps in stock.. (and electrolytic for larger values of course)
I'm interested in finding more info about the benefits of using metal film caps here, is it a noise thing or has it to do with the sound character of the delay (dielectric absorption (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76316.msg623764) etc) or something else?
EDIT: Aha! I see it's more a matter what will fit the given space.. No problem, but If someone likes to still answer the "sound character" question above, please feel free to do that.. :)
The sound of capacitors is something that is debated as hotly as the existence of god, the viability of free market principles, etc.
My personal stance is that I hear no difference in different cap types. My Echo Base uses a mixture of ceramic and box film caps in the signal path, and I like it. I believe that when people say they hear a difference between two caps of the same nominal value, the difference is mostly because of the tolerance of the caps, so 2 caps labeled .1uf could be 20% different in actual value.
And since that discussion has a habit of turning into a long-winded argument, let's just leave it there for this thread. :icon_wink:
Hi there, noob of a question but which 10k resistor is the one after the level pot on Taylors PCB?
Many thanks
It's the one right next to pin 1 of the 4066. What are your plans with it?
Thanks very much.
this from slacker
"I'd try the suggestion from thehoj and others and reduce the value of the 47k resistors, maybe change them to 22k - 30k. To stop this reducing the level of
the delay you need to also decrease the 10k resistor after the level pot by a similar proportion"
I'll use a 3.3k instead.
One more, I'm pretty sure I'll only want slow modulation and not very deep, the mod below seems like the one for me
"If you want to tame the modulation depth then make the 240k resistor before the mod depth pot bigger. You'll have to experiment with values but
hopefully that will give the pot more of a useful range. For the mod speed if you want the fastest speeds to be a bit slower then make the 27k resistor
after the speed pot bigger, and if you want the less of a range overall make the speed pot smaller.
Can you recommend a good substitute range for the 27k resistor? and also is the slowest speed very slow? like <1hz? If not is thre a quick swap out for that?
Thanks so much for the board and your help
Andy
You might not need to mod the 10k resistor, I tried changing the 47k resistors to 24k in mine and there was still plenty of volume without changing the 10k.
The LFO goes from about 0.33Hz (1 cycle every 3 seconds) up to about 15Hz. I would only change the 27k resistor if you just want small changes to the maximum speed. If you want to make the LFO go much slower or much faster then change the 1uF cap, doubling it will make the LFO roughly half the speed and halving the value will double the speed.
Yo fellas, I've added several mods including the "humbucker-friendly" resistors to the Echo Base PDF:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Taylor/
Does anyone know offhand how far apart the pots are placed?
The pots are .8 inches center-to-center. (20.3 mm)
Awesome, thanks!
Hey fullas. Awesome delay, had it going yesterday and its totally what i'm after. Thanks!
I had a few issues getting it going to begin with, mainly the chips weren't pushed in hard enough I think, but I swapped the resistors I'd changed back to the original values as well, except for the 47k to 22k's.
However, I tried plugging it in later yesterday, and i *think* the + and - shorted (an intense hum from the speakers?). The dry signal then was still going through but no more delay (the lfo was still working too).
I then replaced the delay chip, 4066, regulator and the both TL072 and its working again, not quite optimaly I don't think. Are there any other bits I'd need to replace after the possible shortage?
Power supply could be an issue, its giving 10v to the board even though its a 9v.
In the process of debugging I've resoldered everything and am 99% sure everything is in the right place and the right value.
A curious thing is happening also when I measure the upper 220k resistor beside pin 13 of the pt2399 on the board, it gives me 1073ohms (also 7.3kohms, not quite sure which range to test it with (gives 018 in the 2000k range). If I pull it off the board its fine and measures 220k. I've measured a new one, put that in and a similar outcome. The other one next to it is fine on the board at 220k
here are some voltages
PT2399
1. 5
2. 2.5
3 0
4. 0
5. 2.55
6. 2.5
7. 1.3
8. 1.3
9 - 16. 2.5
TL072
1. 5
2. 5
3. 2.5
4. 0
5. 5
6. 5
7. 5
8. 10
TL072 LFO
1. changing
2. 5
3. 5
4. changing about .9
5. 4.15
6. 5
7. changing
8. 9.15
4066
1. 2.86
2. 2.86
3. 0.15
4. 0.15
5. 0
6. 0.88
7. 0
8. 1.76
9. 1.76
10. 2.86
11. 2.86
12. 8.3
13. 9.55
14. 10
This is the second thing I've built so, was hoping just to do everything right the first time, so I didn't have to bother with this stuff... (which I don't really know about)
here are some tests as it its at the moment
ebasetest3.wav (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/4/29/2423750/ebasetest3.wav)
ebasetest2.wav (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/4/29/2423750/ebasetest2.wav)
ebasetest1.wav (http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/4/29/2423750/ebasetest1.wav)
These are mostly done with the level and feeback knobs almost all the way up, which it seems they have to be.
Many thanks
Andy
Hey Andy. Your clips sound great, I wish I had an electric piano.
I can't quite tell what the problem is. What issues are you having now? It sounds like it's working properly to me. The resistor value is no problem, you can't usually get a reliable resistance reading when a resistor is in circuit.
Oh cool, thats good to hear it sounds normal. I think I must just be tripping after working on too intensly!
I've wanted a vibrato for quite a while, makes the rhodes sound even more old school...., I'll be doing that mod for sure
Would shorting out the 9v and ground have blown all the chips?
I'm not sure, but in any case you didn't blow all the chips, or else you wouldn't have had a clean signal in bypass. Listening back to your clips, doesn't seem like anything's wrong, but you tell me if the knobs aren't functioning or something.
I think "Cowboys" by Portishead would make a nice test for the Echo Base+Rhodes combo....
Someone asked via PM about my dual-purpose footswitch wiring, so here it is:
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/520/echobasedualpurposestom.th.jpg) (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/echobasedualpurposestom.jpg/)
Hey, Thanks for the diagram !
Can't wait to receive the PCB to start building this beautiful pedal ! :)
Cool, thanks for all your helps. Hoping to order 3 more boards tommorrow.
2 quick questions;
Can I use lower than a 3.3k (which replaced the 10k beside pin 1 of the 4066) to get more volume from the delay (seems like I have the level all the way up most of the time)? and if so is there a ball park for the value? ie. is 220ohms too low/small?
Also, is it possible to boost the bass response on the delays with a simple mod, or would this just clip the 2399?
Many thanks
Andy
I wonder why your volume is so low? Did you change any other resistors?
Instead of lowering that resistor, I'd change the resistor in the feedback loop of the opamp to raise the gain. On the PCB, it's directly to the right of pin 5 of the TL072 under the Level pot. Raising this value will raise the gain of the opamp.
Do you want to boost bass, or cut highs? Cutting highs would entail changing some cap values in the feedback loop. If you want to boost bass, you'd need to build a separate bass boost circuit (which would probably just be a lowpass filter combined with an amp stage) and insert it in the feedback loop.
mmm.. the 2 47k's have been replaced with 22k. that could be it actually, was concerned about getting to much distortion.
with these back to 47k would the level knob be able to dial out distortion from hot signals?
cheers
No, if you distort the PT2399 the volume knob will not change that distortion as it's after the delay chip. I honestly don't know anything about the signal a Rhodes puts out compared to guitar or bass so I'm not sure what you should do about levels.
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2010, 10:34:15 PM
I honestly don't know anything about the signal a Rhodes puts out compared to guitar or bass so I'm not sure what you should do about levels.
My Rhodes is much hotter than a humbucker. But, just like guitars, it's all in the setup too. There's a lot you can do with the positioning of the tines with respect to the pickups which will affect the tone as well as the volume. Anything from subdued and mellow to brash and almost ring mod. Last time I set up a Rhodes it took me a week to get consistency across all 73 pickups/tines. You'd certainly want to attenuate before hitting a particularly sensitive effect designed for guitars.
In a build I have here I've added momentary switches for the on/off switch and the feedback mod. On that feedback mod, is there any way to ramp up and ramp down the time it takes to get to "full" feedback?
You could try adapting this:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/lera/lera.htm
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2010, 09:17:35 PM
Instead of lowering that resistor, I'd change the resistor in the feedback loop of the opamp to raise the gain. On the PCB, it's directly to the right of pin 5 of the TL072 under the Level pot. Raising this value will raise the gain of the opamp.
If you change the feedback resistor you will increase the volume of the dry signal as well, which doesn't sound like what hoyager wants. If you just want to increase the volume of the delayed sound, then lowering the 10k after the level pot is the way to go.
I've now done the 22k mod on mine, I actually used 24k but shouldn't make much difference, and the volume of the delays is a bit lower than on my original version. I haven't changed the 10k resistor and the maximum volume of the delays is fine, it should be about the same or slightly louder than the the dry signal, if not there's possibly a problem somewhere else.
The first half of the pots rotation is a bit quiet though, half volume is about the same as a quarter on the original. It might be worth trying a 100k linear instead of log, that should improve the feel of the pot and make lower settings louder. I haven't got one the right size to hand otherwise I'd try it.
Quote from: ibodog on June 02, 2010, 07:39:29 AM
On that feedback mod, is there any way to ramp up and ramp down the time it takes to get to "full" feedback?
Here's a quick idea that should do what you want, it's basically a stripped down version of what Taylor linked to. Points A and B connect where the blue and red wires go on Taylor's diagram above.
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/ramposc.jpg)
It should probably have a current limiting resistor between the switch and the pot and you'll need to experiment with the values, but the ones shown should be a starting point.
Does anyone know of a mod for this to allow the unit to run 100% wet for parrallel mixing? Maybe a kill dry switch or something? I know it's gotta be something pretty easy but I'm kind of a newb. Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks alot guys!
The dry kill mod is included in the pdf Taylor has setup for the pcb build, i think the link is further up the page
Ok, I've paralleled a 47k and a 39k (beside pin 5 of LH opamp), 100k was too much, its louder and has pushed it closer to clipping but its also added like another dimension to the delay, its like a noise booster, which sounds a bit rainy and quite pleasant..
I've made some AB comparisons between the Echo Base and an Ibanez AD150 (mn3005) with a rhodes and a polysix
http://hoyager.posterous.com/delay-ab-tests (http://hoyager.posterous.com/delay-ab-tests)
The ad150 seems to have alot more low end response, which contirbutes to its smeary warmth i think. Also it seems to have twice as much headroom? Its delay level is at half to get the same level from the echo base. The combo is really good, echo base after the ad150, it really starts sound space echo-ish with the modulation
Is a linear pot a good idea for the feeback too?, on mine its useful range is all up at 8 and 9
Andy
Before changing the pots for linear ones test if the volume of the delays is about the same as the dry signal when the Level pot is on maximum and that the pedal will self oscillate when the Feedback pot is on maximum. If it doesn't do either of those things then I think there is something else wrong not just the reduction in volume that you get from lowering the 47k resistors to 22k.
If those two things are fine then, yes I would try linear pots for Level and Feedback. Next time a do an order I'll get some linear ones and try it with my pedal.
If you want more bass, less treble then try making the 15n cap just before the Feedback pot bigger. Sorry I don't know which one that is on Taylor's board.
It's the one right below the feedback pot. Thanks for helping with these questions Slacker! I don't know how you still find time to help people with their EB builds, but it's very kind of you.
I ordered the wrong regulator. would there be anything wrong with using this aside from the obvious size?
http://www.futurlec.com/Linear/7805K.shtml to-3 package
thanks for any help.
I don't see anything in the datasheet that makes it look like it has different properties. You need to ground the case though as it has no ground tab.
i think this crudely pieced together diagram shows what i need to do to have the diode lift, clean kill, dual purpose footswitch, waveshape knob, and momentary bypass. can someone verify, please?
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad218/zbotsko/stompbox%20stuff/EchoBaseModsDiagram.jpg)
also, the tl072 chips that i got say "TL072CP" will they work in this and the tap tremolo board?
finally, is there an easy way to add an effects loop to this?
thanks!
Your diagram looks right to me. TL072cp should work just fine.
I haven't added an effects loop diagram to my PDF yet. There was a lot of talk in the main Echo Base thread on how to do it, but searching that thread is hard. I'd try a Google search for
"effects loop" "Echo Base" site:diystompboxes.com
That should give better results than using this forum's search button. There are a few different ways to do a loop with different results, so you'll need to figure out which you want.
awesome! thanks!
i'd love to be able to switch the loop from before the delay to inside the feedback loop to after the delay, but i may be livin' in Dreamland. i'll do some more reading and try google instead of the forum's search function
Quote from: Taylor on August 13, 2010, 06:28:33 PMTL072cp should work just fine.
Hi Taylor.
I have some NJM072BD chips here. Any reason I shouldn't use those in the place of TL072's?
Yeah they'll be absolutely fine. The are just a different manufacturers version of the TL072.
Excellent, thank you slacker.
I also have another question. In the pdf it gives both the diode lift and the resistor sub (22k's for 47k's) as solutions to distorted humbucker sounds.
I'm planning on subbing those resistors out and also using the dual purpose footswitch for modulation/dub madness. I remain confused as to whether or not I need to also do the diode lift. If it is not recommended, I'll use the extra toggle switch to kill the clean signal.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
I think the diodes are really a matter of personal taste, I've never tried mine without them so I can't say if it sounds different or better without them, I mostly use single coils though.
Probably the best thing to do is build it without the diodes and see how you like it, then if you want to try the diodes you can just temporarily connect then between the middle pin of the feedback pot and ground, that's probably easier than soldering them to the board and then trying to remove them. Then if you like them you can solder them to the board or decide if you want the diode lift switch.
Its funny how the just act of asking for help can solve the problem. *solved* and thanks!
i got my board yesterday. [thanks, Taylor!] i just finished putting it together this morning and it doesn't quite work right.
the feedback knob does nothing. i only get one repeat unless i hold down the dub madness switch, and then it only goes into oscillation if the level knob isn't all the way up.
also, with the level knob all the way up, the delay is a little quieter than the clean signal; i'd like it to be able to get at least a little bit louder than the clean signal.
and it makes a whining sound with the lfo depth and delay time knobs down even if i switch off the modulation.
does anyone know what the problem may be?
Did you use board-mounted pots or offboard wiring? At least with your feedback pot, it sounds like you've got a bad solder joint in that area and audio's not passing through. If your feedback works with the dub switch on, the problem would be fairly localized around the feedback pot itself.
it works!!!!!!
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad218/zbotsko/stompbox%20stuff/0824001547.jpg)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad218/zbotsko/stompbox%20stuff/0824001550.jpg)
i was poking around and i tried attaching the 27k resistor to the middle lug of the feedback pot and it worked! i ended up adding a little jumper on the back of the board
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad218/zbotsko/stompbox%20stuff/0824001548.jpg)
still needs knobs and i get ticking in many settings but besides that it sounds great
thank you so much, taylor and slacker and everyone else who helped!
Wow, that's awesome. Love that case.
Ticking? Weird. I have never experienced ticking on an Echo Base, even perfboarded ones. There's a 2u2 electro in the LFO section that I assume is there to stop ticking. You might try reflowing your solder on it?
By ticking are you talking about a tick that changes speed along with the LFO? Or just weird clicks and noise when the time is set long? Because the latter is just a function of the chip, especially if you use a pot bigger than 50k.
That looks great, nice work. I can see why you had the problem of only getting one repeat though, it looks like you didn't put in the 20k resistor that connects to the middle lug of the feedback pot. Without that the feedback pot has no connection back to the input of the delay so it won't work and you will only ever get one repeat.
If you do the "dub madness" mod you still need that resistor, the extra resistor and switch don't replace it.
Quote from: slacker on August 24, 2010, 04:23:49 PM
it looks like you didn't put in the 20k resistor that connects to the middle lug of the feedback pot.
that's what it was. i did think that the resistor with the dub madness switch replaced it. i guess i should have posted a picture earlier. i'll have to fix that soon, but i'm really happy to have it working.
and the ticking is in time with the lfo but it's less apparent with my real amp than with the little amp i was testing it with.
i'll put that missing resistor in and remove that jumper in the next day or two and report back if it changes. then maybe i'll post some clips
would subbing 22k for the 20k resistors cause any major problems?
That should be fine. I don't think it'll make any difference.
Hey gang,
I just got two of these PCBs - great job Taylor.
Does anyone know of a good spot to wire in a dry effects loop on this board?
Thanks.
so i put that missing resistor in my echo base and it was working great for a few days. i loved the sound and the extra footswitches were so much fun. then, i noticed that the modulation stopped working and the shortest delay time is way longer than before.
does anyone have an idea as to what may have happened?
Does the LED still flash when you turn the modulation on?
First thing I would do is check the connections to the modulation depth pot, if the connection to ground has broken that would cause the problem you're having. After that check the connections to PNP transistor.
that was it! slacker saves the day once again
the wire going to the middle lug of the depth pot broke. i totally missed it every time i opened it up
thanks again!
Hej everyone,
Just built up my Echo Base PCB and everything is functioning as it should except....
The bypass switch.
I have re flowed the solder and checked over the circuit.
Anyone else run into this?
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
O.
Check your switch. Use a new one if you're not sure.
jacob
Just to add some info that cyklopljud has told me via email, he has replaced the 4066, reflowed all the joints for the bypass wiring, he has wired the tails switch properly, and he's using BC549 instead of the 2n5089 for the switching transistor. He has verified that the transistor pins are in the right place.
I didn't think about swapping out the switch, good idea.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 08:54:58 PM
Just to add some info that cyklopljud has told me via email, he has replaced the 4066, reflowed all the joints for the bypass wiring, he has wired the tails switch properly, and he's using BC549 instead of the 2n5089 for the switching transistor. He has verified that the transistor pins are in the right place.
I didn't think about swapping out the switch, good idea.
Quote from: jkokura on October 26, 2010, 08:52:16 PM
Check your switch. Use a new one if you're not sure.
jacob
thanks for the tip Jacob.
Strange I tried about 4 different switches, as well as just joining the wire together to make a short.
No luck, its very curious as I the rest of the circuit works. Well I have no way to know if the tails switch
is functioning until the bypass works, I guess.
Maybe the tails switch is the bad one.......?
I did read if the tails switch isn't connected there are issues, or did you say that Taylor?
So I will replace that after work.
hmmmm...
oh and thanks for the extra help Taylor.
O.
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right. You can just take the wiring out and jumper the center pad to one side to take that switch/wiring out of the equation.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right. You can just take the wiring out and jumper the center pad to one side to take that switch/wiring out of the equation.
I will let you know how it goes.
It sounds fantastic, the fact I can modulate the LFO makes it all the better.
O.
I had no luck changing out the tails toggle switch, still no bypass.
I will go over the circuit again and re-flow everything, I probably missed something.
O.
What does the LED do? Knowing that would help.
If you've got a meter that should be able to tell you where the problem is. If you measure the voltage on the collector of the bypass transistor, that's the pin nearest the CD4066, with the bypass switch open or disconnected you should get about 1 volt or lower. With the switch closed or the wire shorted to ground you should get 8 volts or more. If you don't get similar readings then the problem is somewhere around the transistor.
If the voltages are Ok, then measure from the middle pin of the tails switch, you should get the same readings as at the collector. Then measure from pins 12 and 13 of the CD4066, depending on the position of the tails switch one of those should follow the collector and the other should be about 9 volts.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right.
Yeah that's right if you leave out the tails switch the pedal is hardwired on and the bypass won't work. The tails switch routes the signal from the bypass transistor to either of the CD4066 gates to cut the input or the output of the PT2399, so without the switch or a jumper the signal doesn't get to the CD4066.
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
What does the LED do? Knowing that would help.
If you've got a meter that should be able to tell you where the problem is. If you measure the voltage on the collector of the bypass transistor, that's the pin nearest the CD4066, with the bypass switch open or disconnected you should get about 1 volt or lower. With the switch closed or the wire shorted to ground you should get 8 volts or more. If you don't get similar readings then the problem is somewhere around the transistor.
If the voltages are Ok, then measure from the middle pin of the tails switch, you should get the same readings as at the collector. Then measure from pins 12 and 13 of the CD4066, depending on the position of the tails switch one of those should follow the collector and the other should be about 9 volts.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right.
Yeah that's right if you leave out the tails switch the pedal is hardwired on and the bypass won't work. The tails switch routes the signal from the bypass transistor to either of the CD4066 gates to cut the input or the output of the PT2399, so without the switch or a jumper the signal doesn't get to the CD4066.
@Slacker, the LED lights up no problems and responds to the LFO speed (If LFO modulation is switched in).
I will check what you suggested, I think your right something is fishy around the transistor.
Thanks.
Does the LED go on and off with the bypass switch?
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:25:11 PM
Does the LED go on and off with the bypass switch?
Woops sorry, left out the most crucial of info.
No it doesn't respond to the bypass, just stays on.
There is no response in the circuit to the bypass.
(I am using BC549 instead of the 2n5089)
Thanks.
O.
Check the transistor is the correct way round, sounds like you've already done that. The BC transistors I've got have the opposite pinout to a 2N5089, so the rounded side would be facing the edge of the board.
If you can let us have the voltages on all pins of the transistor that would help.
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:36:31 PM
Check the transistor is the correct way round, sounds like you've already done that. The BC transistors I've got have the opposite pinout to a 2N5089, so the rounded side would be facing the edge of the board.
If you can let us have the voltages on all pins of the transistor that would help.
I have socket-ed the transistors and checked the data sheets for the pin outs, but now I am guessing I have a cold solder joint on it.
(I am not near the circuit right now.).
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:36:31 PM
Check the transistor is the correct way round, sounds like you've already done that. The BC transistors I've got have the opposite pinout to a 2N5089, so the rounded side would be facing the edge of the board.
If you can let us have the voltages on all pins of the transistor that would help.
I found I had over heated my BC549, replaced it then...
Bam it worked.
Thanks for the help guys.
O.
Cool, glad you got it working.
Quote from: Taylor on November 07, 2010, 07:21:11 PM
Cool, glad you got it working.
Thanks again Taylor for your extended help.
Looking forward to the next PCB.
O.
My thanks as always to Slacker for helping out with these questions - since he designed the circuit, and is far more clever than I, he knows it more intimately and can pinpoint issues quickly, as in this case.
Has anyone done a drill template for the Right Angle PC mount pots?
Aaron
built the EB a couple of days ago (the PCB). Wonderful PCB! best quality pcb i´ve ever seen.
THe build was nice, though the distance from hole to hole for the resistors were a bit short, however if they were bigger they wouldn´t fit my box :D
very good pedal, i did the diode-lift to remove the distortion (just removed them completely) and for the 47K combo, i made one 22K and one 39K to make it sound right in my ears. I use this in an FX-loop and before I changed these it made significant cut in my rig-volume. Now it´s fine though.
Love this, and will try Taylors other PCBs.!
Quote from: kristoffereide on November 11, 2010, 09:09:41 PM
THe build was nice, though the distance from hole to hole for the resistors were a bit short, however if they were bigger they wouldn´t fit my box :D
True, attention needs to be paid to lead forming with these PCBs, as they are very compact and I absolutely
hate resistors on end. I find it pretty easy to bend the leads with my fingers the way you normally would, just closer to the body of the resistor.
Thanks for the kind words and I'm sure we'd all like to see your build if you get a chance.
Quote from: Taylor on November 11, 2010, 09:21:23 PM
Thanks for the kind words and I'm sure we'd all like to see your build if you get a chance.
unfortunately Im not big on graphics, and mostly do colours and a text on a white BB to distinguish one pedal from the other, so it´s not much to look at :D
I'm having trouble finding a couple of 15nf capacitors. I have all of the other parts. What could I substitute that would be a fairly easy find, or where can I find some?
Thanks
Never mind, I found some.
Hey again.
Just built another one of thiese, but now I only get a buypass-signal and no echo. Any thoughts about what I did wrong?
Thanks,
Kristoffer
Hmm, could be anything in the delay portion of the effect, really. Use an audio probe to see if you have sound at pin 16 of th 2399.
no, actually I don´t. Tried swapping the chip, no difference
So if you follow the schematic, if you have no audio at pin 16, it's somewhere between the input and there. So the delay chip is not the problem. Check through with your audio probe at the inputs and outputs of the TL072 and the pins of the 4066 as noted in the schematic. I'm pretty sure I followed Slacker's pin numbering so you should be able to locate the issue that way with your audio probe.
I seem to have modulation at pin 13, if that tells you anything. I´ll check later, now I have other studd to do :D Thanks!
You want to check out the other TL072 on the left, this one has the audio.
Just built my Echo Base PCB in one evening (after quite a few more evenings ordering parts!) Fantastic board, thanks to Taylor (and Slacker)
Now I just have to decide which of the 5 mod switches to keep, then box it up!
I like checking datasheets before I build, and I noted that the 2N5087 has to be put on the PCB in reverse of the BC560 when used as a substitute. The collector and emitter are reverse. I did a forum search, and it was mentioned in the main Echo Base thread, but since that's getting to be a mighty tome, you may want to mention this fact in the built PDF.
[BC 560 Data Sheet (pdf) (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/fairchild/BC560.pdf)] [2N5087 Data Sheet (pdf) (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/fairchild/2N5087.pdf)]
I've heard good things about subbing the 2N4403 in music circuits. For instance in this article (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/headamp/). Any thoughts? I can get that tranny for pennies at Jameco. (It would also need to go into the PCB in reverse.)
[2N4403 Data Sheet (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/fairchild/2N4403.pdf)]
Lastly, I note you have 1μF poly film cap with a Mouser part number. Looking at the PCB, it's a 5mm spread on the leads. I'm assuming I could use this part from Jameco instead: Capacitor 1uF 50 Volt/30VAC PLYE 5% (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=528462&)
Steve
Indeed, when substituting transistors, it's necessary to check the pinout before putting parts in. But if the E and C are reversed, why not just flip the part around instead of putting it on the back of the board?
The BC560 is not used in the audio section - it acts as a voltage controlled resistor to cary the delay time of the 2399 chip. I don't know about the one you linked, it might work as I don't think this is too critical in any case. But the 2n3906 is supposed to be confirmed for that, and it's plentiful.
That cap should be fine.
Quote from: Taylor on February 01, 2011, 01:08:58 AM
But if the E and C are reversed, why not just flip the part around instead of putting it on the back of the board?
That's actually what I meant by reversed... just flipped around so the flat side of the transistor points the other way.
So I can just use a 2N3906? So noise is not really an issue in that part of the circuit....That's good, since I have a bunch of those standard transistors.
Right, noise won't really matter as this is just controlling the frequency of the internal clock of the PT2399.
Hello
Can anyone tell me what the holes under the pt2399 and 4066 are for?
Also, This may sound stupid but where do you wire the ground from the audio input and output.
thanks
Quote from: Ginsengbob on February 04, 2011, 07:26:18 PM
Hello
Can anyone tell me what the holes under the pt2399 and 4066 are for?
They are called vias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_(electronics)). Their purpose is to connect a copper trace on one side of the board to the other side of the board. You don't need to do anything with them or pay attention to them at all.
QuoteAlso, This may sound stupid but where do you wire the ground from the audio input and output.
thanks
Connect the grounds from the 2 jacks to the ground tab of the power jack.
Welcome to the forum. :)
Would that possibly work in the small holes next to "time" and "b50k".
Thanks for the welcome.
So far this build has been very easy and enjoyable.
Just hope it all works when I'm done.
Just checked out your site.
Are there any sound samples from the Christine fuzz glitch pcb?
Thanks
Chris
Yes, exactly. The silk screen component legend is your guide for what parts to put where. You don't need to worry about those tiny holes that have no silk screened part on them.
No clips of the Christine yet, in fact I haven't put the build document up. I will be doing that this weekend though. It's a really great project designed by The Tone God, and I thought it deserved some more attention, since it's such a simple build for how much it does.
Okay ,hopefully this is the last of my questions.
First , let me clarify.
When I was asking about the ground for the audio I was asking if it was ok to use the holes next to "time" and b50k, not the hole which says
G next to 9v.
They look like they might be vias.
Second.......
the 1UF cap that is directly under lfo speed B1m.
All I have is a polarized 1uf with a + and -.
would that work?
And if so , which way goes where?
thanks
Quote from: Ginsengbob on February 04, 2011, 09:12:45 PM
Okay ,hopefully this is the last of my questions.
First , let me clarify.
When I was asking about the ground for the audio I was asking if it was ok to use the holes next to "time" and b50k, not the hole which says
G next to 9v.
They look like they might be vias.
Ah, I see. In this case those 2 vias do in fact connect to ground, though you can't assume that this is always or even usually the case. So, yes you can connect your grounds there, though you might wind up with less noise by wiring grounds to the power jack (star grounding).
QuoteSecond.......
the 1UF cap that is directly under lfo speed B1m.
All I have is a polarized 1uf with a + and -.
would that work?
And if so , which way goes where?
thanks
I'm not sure about that. Slacker (designer of the circuit) once said that while non-polar is technically required, it will probably work fine with a polarized cap. In this case I don't suppose orientation matters. Now, the cap may in fact fail at some point due to some amount of reverse voltage, so if I were you I'd still order a non-polar cap and replace the electro you have when you can.
thanks
I guess I'll have to make another order.
I'm also missing the 50k resistor , would a 51k make a difference?
I also noticed that there was some talk about both sides of the board needing to be soldered.
Is this right? Both sides should be soldered or does soldering on the bottom get through to the top as well.
I'm stoked to hear the Christine sound samples.
As soon as I get some extra cash I'm going to order all your other boards.
51k resistor is fine - in general effects are designed with 5% tolerance resistors in mind, so anything within 5% of the value will be unlikely to make a noticeable difference, unless a precision resistor was specified.
It doesn't matter which side you solder on - the holes are plated through so they connect with both sides automatically. Most people solder on the side that does not have the silkscreen.
That's what i thought about the resistors.
When using a 78l05 does the flat end face the bottom towards the 220nf cap?
Ok
I think I see it now.
Feeling kind of stupid for not realizing the pinouts are the same.
Thanks for the help.
This forum really makes it pianless.
Taylor, it's been one year I built my echobase.
He ran into some problems, because as you said, too many wires.
I wonder if you have pcb layout available in PDF, so I could make a model of its board, which I think is the best one.
I thank you, Raphael.
PS: I live in Brazil, and do not think that you can send me your PCB here, but I could buy you just the design of the PCB by e-mail. Sorry my English.
Hi Raphael, unfortunately it's not possible to make this PCB at home, because it's double-sided and has extremely tight trace spacing. It has to be manufactured.
However, I do send PCBs to Brazil, and shipping isn't too expensive - check the website: musicpcb.com.
Taylor,
The price is $ 14 of pcb + $ 2 maritime shipping?
How do I pay?
Thanks.
Raphael, I sent you a private message with the details.
Taylor,
I can not get value from $ 4 in shipping, it's always $ 2.
How do I proceed?
Thanks.
Hi Raphael, can you email me at info@musicpcb.com? I will help you place the order.
just got my pcbs and starting the ordering of bits.
I also want to add in the feedback loop and switch it 2 or 3 ways, hopefully will have time to trawl the big thread, but just on the off chance has anyone made a quick schem. of the options?
For effects loops, have a look at my post in this thread http://www.electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39579&postorder=asc&start=375 (http://www.electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39579&postorder=asc&start=375)
thank you for the whole thing slacker. can't wait to hear this thing.
Gonna finally build this thing tomorrow, hope it'll work just fine with the following subs:
2 x 20k --> 22k
2 x 47k --> 22k (HB mod)
1 x 240k --> 220k
1 x 50k --> 47k
I'm also posting a comfortable-to-build 1590BB drilling layout for the "no frills" version (Bypass, Tails, LFO) to help out any disorganized mess creators like me. Hopefully, no considerable crushage will be needed to close the lid!
(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/phil2004/EBLayout.jpg)
It's made to fit 16mm pots with plastic covers, "innie" DC jack, 2 toggles on the back, switchcraft-type jacks, LED bezel, and bypass switch of your choice.
Note that this relies on offboard wiring, not board-mounted pots! You'll need to drill the pots more closely together if you end up doing that.
Looks good, those subs will be fine.
Ugh my PCBs came two days before my smallbear order assuming smallbear arrives today. The wait is killibg me!!
Ive put everything on the board except the PT2399 and some other stuff. Gotta buy my PC mount pots locally today, as soon as i get my package.
The PCBs are crazy. Not like anything ive worked on since i started doin this. They really look...great. Its like assembling a Boss or Z-Vex pedal.
How does the diode lift mod from the PDF sound?
Drill plans for the enclosure would be cool in the PDFs.
That was the only problem really. Im no good at drilling straight. And poor planning led to a big hole that i dont want inthe front o the enclosure. It was gunna be beautiful but now it looks bleh
Soubds great tho. So easy to biuld even using the crap i did.
The clean signal kill switch mod is sorta flawed cos you cant bypass the echobase without turning the clean back on.
And i think i might be getting a tiny bit of that distortion with my humbuckers. I usedmm the 22k sub resistors but left in the diodes.
Quote from: El Heisenberg on March 01, 2011, 04:15:17 PM
The clean signal kill switch mod is sorta flawed cos you cant bypass the echobase without turning the clean back on.
It's not flawed, but some thought is required by the person doing the mod. I realize that the point of me putting those PDFs together is to make things easier and keep people from reinventing wheels, but, at the same time I think a little bit of DI
Y helps hone our skills. :) This is the kind of thing that doesn't require any actual electronics theory, so we can reason our way through it.
So, when the pedal is bypassed, we need to reconnect the connection that is broken by the clean kill mod. To do that, we need to duplicate the clean kill switch, but make this duplicate only connect those points when the pedal is bypassed; otherwise the clean kill switch is in control of this connection. We need an SPST minimum. If we take a look at the way the bypass switch is wired in this pedal, we notice that it only uses a single pole and a single throw, even though most stomp switches are DPDT minimum. That leaves us with a free pole and throw... :icon_wink:
thanks guys for bringing this to my attention,as this mod is on my list, I wish it had come up before I placed my parts order, but al least it did before I start the build and can't figure out why it does that.
Eh, i already thought about that, taylor but i used an old SPDT switch from a wah for the bypass. Couldnt imagine wasting a 3PDT if i only need one pole. Dont have any stomp DPDTs.
Well i took the 3PD out of my DH pitch shifter to use it in this. Clean kill works when bypassed now.
Though lifting the diodes would raise the volume of the delay.
Im still interested in the waveform mod in the pdf at the bottom.
But i wanna use a toggle switch to just switch from each extreme. When the 25k pot is turned left or right it acts as either 265k resistor or a 25k resistor? Correct? To swirtch it in id just have to switch in a 25k instead of the 240k?
Quote from: El Heisenberg on March 22, 2011, 10:34:27 PM
Im still interested in the waveform mod in the pdf at the bottom.
But i wanna use a toggle switch to just switch from each extreme. When the 25k pot is turned left or right it acts as either 265k resistor or a 25k resistor? Correct? To swirtch it in id just have to switch in a 25k instead of the 240k?
No, you're thinking of this wrong, but it's my fault for not creating a schematic which shows what the mods are doing schematically.
The pot is not working like a variable resistor, it's just panning between the portion of the circuit where the LFO is a square, and the part where it's triangular. If you want a switch, just replace the pot in the diagram with an SPDT. The pole replaces the wiper, the 2 throws replace the outer lugs of the pot. Still put the 240k resistor where it is in the drawing.
Eh my fault for not bein able to think it thru! Thanks
haha!!! +10000 on the waveform toggle mod. It sounds great!
I've made a drill template for Taylor's arrangement of components. It is meant for 125B enclosures, but with some alterations you could use it for the BB enclosures:
http://www.pjpedals.com/projectfiles/EchoBaseDrill.pdf (http://www.pjpedals.com/projectfiles/EchoBaseDrill.pdf)
Enjoy!
Thanks Barcode, so this will work with onboard pots - the way I did things in the first post? Very cool. :)
Quote from: Taylor on March 26, 2011, 02:58:29 PM
Thanks Barcode, so this will work with onboard pots - the way I did things in the first post? Very cool. :)
Yep, I literally just used the template 15 minutes ago to drill an enclosure and mount the board/pot assembly. The only caveat is that the in/out jack placement may need adjusting depending on the size and shape of the jacks.
Built this up today & I have a problem or two.
1. The bypass switch doesn't engage/disengage the effect. It switches the LED on/off, but the effect is constantly on.
2. The effect itself is VERY distorted. The pots work as they should though.
I'm not sure if the modulation is working or not as the repeats are so distorted. Any ideas where I should start looking ?? The only sub I've made is the 22k/47k resistor humbucker mod.
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: 1878 on April 09, 2011, 02:03:40 PM
Built this up today & I have a problem or two.
1. The bypass switch doesn't engage/disengage the effect. It switches the LED on/off, but the effect is constantly on.
So we know the switch wiring is good, and the 4066 is getting power and the switching signal, but the switch sections that control switching the audio are not switching. The first thing I'd check would be all the resistors around the 4066. Reflow your solder joints and check that you haven't put in any wrong resistors. You do have your tails switch wired up, right? Does the bypass work in either tails position?
Quote2. The effect itself is VERY distorted. The pots work as they should though.
I'm not sure if the modulation is working or not as the repeats are so distorted. Any ideas where I should start looking ?? The only sub I've made is the 22k/47k resistor humbucker mod.
Thanks in advance.
I wonder if whatever's messed up that's causing the switching not to work is also not biasing the 4066 i/o, which I would think could slam the signal into one of the power rails. Trace through the circuit with your audio probe to see where it begins being distorted, and let us know.
Thanks for the reply.
I haven't had a chance to use the audio probe yet, but I've checked the resistors and they all seem to be the correct value etc. I've also just noticed that the LED had stopped working !?!? I swapped it for a new one and it's fine. I've got a couple of 4066's too, so I may swap one & see if that helps.
Another thing: the LED flashes with the modulation, so even if you can't tell by the sound yet, you should be able to tell if the modulation is working that way.
Quote from: Taylor on April 10, 2011, 02:27:03 PM
Another thing: the LED flashes with the modulation, so even if you can't tell by the sound yet, you should be able to tell if the modulation is working that way.
...assuming you have adequate supply voltage.
I chased my tail figuring out why the modulation didn't really work / flash the LED - until I realised my 'test' battery was on its way out.
Best to check this with a wall-wart - then you'll know for sure if there is a fault on the board somewhere.
FWIW, this pedal is well worth the debugging - hang in there.
Is there a way to increase the delayed signal volume to the same as the bypasssed? You cant really cut the clean to use vibe mode since the vibe signal is SO quiet
On mine even with the the 47k to 22k resistor swap, with the level on full, the delayed sound is at least as loud as bypassed. If you want more volume from the delay find the 10k resistor from the wiper of the level pot and make it smaller, it's the one next to pin 1 of the CD4066.
Cool. Maybe i put a 15k in there since the green is so hard to tell from the black.
Done. I had to go down to 5k! But it worked.
Man this PCB cab really take a beating. Ive taken the whole thing apart and done mods to it loke 8 times using really old solder iron tips.
The problem with the bypass has gone (solder bridge on the tails switch) and I've had a go with the audio probe... Nothing conclusive. I'm wondering if it's the PT2399. I bought 10 of them from Ebay a while back and they were CHEAP !! Maybe they were cheap for a reason.
What makes it so frustrating is I can hear everything is working as it should !?!? All the controls work correctly, just this horrible distorted noise coming out of it.
I shall endeavour to persevere.
Sometimes while I have the pedal open a high hissing sound appears out of nowhere.
If I unplug the pedal and plug it back in the hiss disappears.
Anybody else have this happen?
Quote from: Ginsengbob on April 22, 2011, 04:08:15 AM
Sometimes while I have the pedal open a high hissing sound appears out of nowhere.
If I unplug the pedal and plug it back in the hiss disappears.
Anybody else have this happen?
I had something similar that only happened for a few days, then disappeared. I had some modulating hiss that would go away when the mod switch was turned off and come back when mod was turned back on. It took about 1-2 minutes to happen after the pedal powered up. I meant to do some investigating, but the hiss hasn't been back in months.
Just read this...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86788.0
I had another go at debugging my build yesterday to no avail & I'm wondering if my previous thoughts were correct. I'm about to order a couple of chips from a more reputable supplier !!
I have finished building the echobase, and after 3 hours of carefull and planned debugging.. I haven't got it working.
I read all the posts and tried all my knowledge, but now I could use some help.
problem:
No signal. Neither in bypass, nor delay!
(when I connect the input jack to an amp and amplify it very much, I do hear the dub madness mod I did and the oscillation effect when I open the feedback pot.!?)
What I got, so far:
- LED works, also goes on and off with the bypass switch.
- LFO switch works, as I flip it, the LED reacts to the 'lfo speed' pot
- checked and resoldered 2 cold joints and my wiring, everything looks good and seems to be connected
- I've measured the pinouts of all the ic's and compared it to the results posted on page 2 of this thread and don't notice anything weird.
- Audio probe, I probed and the input seems to get to the board just fine. I hear at the pins:
TL072 (on the input side of the board):
1 clean signal
2 clean
3 clean
7 delay signal
4066:
1 clean
2 clean
10 delay (muffled/slightly distorted)
10 delay (muffled/slightly distorted)
PT2399:
9 delay
12 delay
14 distorted delaysignal
15 delay (= this is what I would love to hear coming out of my amp!! :) )
I can measure more, post more results, but I am a bit at a loss here of where to look. Please, thanks for any help you guys can offer me..
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 08:20:00 AM
TL072 (on the input side of the board):
7 delay signal
When it's in bypass do you get clean signal on pin 7, if you do then there can't be much wrong because that's where the output is taken from. I'd start be double checking your wiring to the jacks, make sure both the sleeves are grounded and that the connections to the tips are correct.
So, we know your delay chip is working properly, which means voltages and the regulator are all good.
We know the LFO is working and the 4066 is at least mostly working.
So what's left would be the left TL072 and the audio path coming from the delay chip pin 14.
Probe 4066 pin 10 and let us know what you have.
QuoteWhen it's in bypass do you get clean signal on pin 7, if you do then there can't be much wrong because that's where the output is taken from. I'd start be double checking your wiring to the jacks, make sure both the sleeves are grounded and that the connections to the tips are correct.
I get a clean signal if it's bypassed and I tried audioprobing the 'out' connection, nothing there.. when I insert the input cable into the output jack I get no signal at the 'out' connection!? Does that help?
QuoteProbe 4066 pin 10 and let us know what you have.
..at pin 10 of the 4066 I get a delaysignal, but loud and clipped!
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:04:39 PM
.. when I insert the input cable into the output jack I get no signal at the 'out' connection!? Does that help?
:icon_eek: HUH??
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 12, 2011, 02:14:33 PM
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:04:39 PM
.. when I insert the input cable into the output jack I get no signal at the 'out' connection!? Does that help?
:icon_eek: HUH??
When I feed a signal into the output jack (insted of the input) no signal comes through to the pcb at the 'out' connection. Is that more clear.. sorry.
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:46:31 PM
When I feed a signal into the output jack (insted of the input) no signal comes through to the pcb at the 'out' connection. Is that more clear.. sorry.
I think so....
Where exactly are you taking your readings (or audio-probing) at the PCB for the 'out' connection?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 12, 2011, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:46:31 PM
When I feed a signal into the output jack (insted of the input) no signal comes through to the pcb at the 'out' connection. Is that more clear.. sorry.
I think so....
Where exactly are you taking your readings (or audio-probing) at the PCB for the 'out' connection?
At the bottomside of the hole marked 'out' . No audio there either way..
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:55:14 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 12, 2011, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: husc on May 12, 2011, 02:46:31 PM
When I feed a signal into the output jack (insted of the input) no signal comes through to the pcb at the 'out' connection. Is that more clear.. sorry.
I think so....
Where exactly are you taking your readings (or audio-probing) at the PCB for the 'out' connection?
At the bottomside of the hole marked 'out' . No audio there either way..
Not sure if you will hear a non-amplified signal with an audio probe (which I assume you are using)
Sounds like you may be grounding out your output signal somehow.
You should pull out the TL072 that slacker referred to previously and read between Pin 7 and ground. If you read a short then you just need to follow the path and look for potential problems.
Good Luck ;D
There's a 220n capacitor above the opamp below the "Level" pot what do you get if you audio probe both of its legs.
The side nearest the edge of the board is connected to pin 7 so you should get audio there the other side is connected to "Out".
If you've got a continuity tester on your meter try testing for continuity between out and ground, there shouldn't be any, but it sounds like something might be shorted to ground.
EDIT: posted the same time as GL
Quote from: slacker on May 12, 2011, 03:03:32 PM
..but it sounds like something might be shorted to ground.
PROBLEM SOLVED!
I had the wires soldered wrong at the output jack... :icon_redface: so focused, I didn't see the solution yesterday.
A goodnight sleep, your help and reading over the debugging FAQ again. Switched the wires around and boom, great pedal..
THANK YOU!! (I'll post pictures asap in the appropriate thread)
Cool glad you got it working.
Hello Everyone.
I've swapped out the PT2399 and although better, it's still not working properly. I've checked all the values and they're correct, I've also gone over all the solder joints and they're fine too.
The effect is acting as it should. I can hear the repeats etc, but they're really distorted and muffled. The initial signal when the effect is engaged is fine, it's the repeats which are the problem. Any ideas ??
Since sound qualifiers are relative, when you say it's distorted and muffled, you know that the repeats in a working Echo Base are not super-clean like a Boss DD-7 type delay, right? A certain amount of distortion and filtering ("muffled" sound) is normal. So are you get much more distortion and filtering than is normal with a PT2399 delay?
Probe 4066 pin 10 and let us know what you have.
@ all (amptramp, FC, Zambo and all the rest of the smart people on the board.. So everyone)
What if the first stage was made also cathode follower?
I not a cathode follower for high impedance input and low impedance output?
I get that from my Directory of Electronic Circuits by Mathew Mandl printed in 1966.. It would require adding a capacitor from plate to ground like a .047uf... This will minimize signal voltage variations that can cause degrading of the signal.
It's VERY distorted. I'll get the audio probe on it tonight & I'll post some voltages too. I'm starting to worry I've broken something :(
I just finished this build and I'm happy with it for the most part. I also get noise at long delay settings. I added some resistance to limit it to about 500ms. where it still sounds ok. Another issue is the self oscillation makes a bee line for higher frequencies. Rather shrill sounding and won't maintain any lower frequency oscillation. Everything else works ands sounds right though.
Quote from: Kill Switch on May 26, 2011, 06:56:24 PM
I just finished this build and I'm happy with it for the most part. I also get noise at long delay settings.
True - this is the nature of the PT2399 chip. They only rate it up to 300ms. Everything past that is "lagniappe" in New Orleans parlance.
QuoteAnother issue is the self oscillation makes a bee line for higher frequencies. Rather shrill sounding and won't maintain any lower frequency oscillation. Everything else works ands sounds right though.
This is pretty much how it sounds, however I find that limiting the feedback to only the area right after oscillation makes for softer, more mid-rangey oscillation. As you go past there, the diodes clip more which makes the feedback more shrill. You could try the diode lift mod, or else just limit your feedback by changing the 20k coming off of the feedback pot to something bigger.
Quote from: Taylor on May 25, 2011, 02:27:40 AM
Since sound qualifiers are relative, when you say it's distorted and muffled, you know that the repeats in a working Echo Base are not super-clean like a Boss DD-7 type delay, right? A certain amount of distortion and filtering ("muffled" sound) is normal. So are you get much more distortion and filtering than is normal with a PT2399 delay?
Probe 4066 pin 10 and let us know what you have.
Just put an Atari Punk Console through it and probed pin 10 of the 4066. It sounded better than the normal signal. I put the meter on the same pin and got a reading of 06.8. Also, the rate of speed for the modulation doesn't go slower than approx 100bmp. I think I've done something bad to this.
I've been looking on Youtube and mine sounds nothing like it should.
okay, now probe pin 1 of the 4066. If sound is good before that switch, see how it sounds after the switch.
I built this the other day, and am having some problems, I have read through this thread and some of the other one, however still cannot work out whats going on.
I get clean signal, the led lights up when the pedal is engaged, and I can hear a ticking noise when engaged, but I cannot hear the signal. The middle pot changes the ticking rate so I think that is working. I checked and the the output is not grounded.
Can somebody point me in the right direction as to what I should be checking.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0
Hey everyone! I built my echo base today, the delays sounds great and stuff, but the modulation doesn't work (LFO). The depth knob acts like a finetune of the time knob, and that's it. The LFO switch is fine. I built my unit with the shape mod (with the pot that blends square and triangle). Can anyone help?
Hi
Does the LED flash?
Thanks for the reply!
No, is it supposed to flash when the lfo is engaged?
Yes when the LFO is on the LED should flash at the speed set by the speed pot. If it's not flashing but just turns on and off when you bypass the effect, then it means the LFO isn't working and the depth pot will act like you've described. First thing I would check is the wiring to the LFO kill switch, make sure you haven't accidentily shorted out the 2 pads that this connects to and that the switch is working, maybe disconnect it and see if that helps.
I checked for continuity with a polymeter between thw lfo sw solder pads. The switch acts as normal, when in "lfo on" position, the pads do not short, when switched, they get shorted. I guess the switch wiring is ok ???
Ok, it's not that then, next thing I'd try is disconnect the waveshape pot just in case you've wired that wrong and see if that makes it work. You can just remove it, you don't need to rewire the depth pot properly, the LFO will work with neither of them connected.
After that if you've got a meter measure the DC voltage between all the pins of the opamp and ground and let us know what they are.
I tried disconnecting the shape pot, nothing changed, measured both TL072s and these are the results:
(http://i53.tinypic.com/28tyzvl.jpg)
The opamp on the right is the one used for the LFO. The pin that is at 1.97 volts has something to do with the problem, but I can't think what could be causing that.
I would double check that the resistors down the left hand side of that opamp are the correct values and that all the solder connections are good with no blobs of solder shorting anything out. Also check that the speed pot is correctly wired.
If you've used sockets you could swap the opamps just in case you have a bad one.
I've finally "finished" my echobase. It's pretty great so far. I did all of the mods detailed in the PDF and the extra stomp for the D Mad/Modulation toggle arrangement. Everything seems to be working just right except that the led isn't flashing but I am getting different ranges with the LFO knobs. I did everything according to the build instructions, the only thing I did differently was to tie all the grounds to the input jack ground sleeve (DC jack ground to output ground - output ground to input ground - and Board ground to input ground). I read in the thread that the star ground should be at the DC jack. Would that make a difference? I am going to go ahead and swap out the LED because I was testing some of them and I think some of the same clear ones weren't lighting up cause they are infared ones. Maybe I mixed them up?!?! I started to the outboard wiring last night and got about 75% done and gave up cause the switching was confusing me. Decided to sleep it off but actually was never able to fall asleep. Got outta bed at 5:30 this morning and fired up the iron! I'll check the LED in the meantime....
Thanks,
Richard
Where you star ground won't matter as far as the functioning of the pedal. Theoretically it might effect noise/ticking, but I doubt even that would be a noticeable difference in most cases.
Does your LED light at all?
Led won't light at all. Solder connections looks solid. I desoldered the led and tested it and it works. I've decided to not have the blinkie and am just going wire it as an on/off indicator. Must be done with this machine. Great project! I need to get the OC 2 now. Got any new stuff in the works?
Thanks
Rich
Just wondering about the point where the clean kill mod is. Has anyone used a A10K pot instead of using the 10k and a switch?
Quote from: Barcode80 on March 26, 2011, 02:46:49 PM
I've made a drill template for Taylor's arrangement of components. It is meant for 125B enclosures, but with some alterations you could use it for the BB enclosures:
http://www.pjpedals.com/projectfiles/EchoBaseDrill.pdf (http://www.pjpedals.com/projectfiles/EchoBaseDrill.pdf)
Enjoy!
Can someone please repost this, the link seems to be dead.
Thanks, Jim
Hi Taylor, any update on when the PCB for this creature will be available again?
It's tough to get an estimate from the fab guys, but it could be anywhere from this week to 2 weeks from now I think.
Cool, thanks for the speedy response! I'll definitely be ordering one at that time ;)
Hi, a new question here: I just built the pedal and am going to put in the LFO switch shortly and i also removed the diodes, it sounds great when its my guitar>echo base>amp, but when I put my TS-9 in front of it, it barely picks up the guitar, crackles and is very noisy; is there anyway to fix this? (this happens whether the ts-9 is switched on or off)
Any word yet as to when the PCB will be available? Thanks :icon_biggrin:
Nevermind.....2 more weeks. I just got your email answer. Thanks.
Hey Taylor
When I have the Lfo switched off the Lfo Depth knob affects the overall delay time.
Is this normal?
Thanks
Chris
That sounds normal but I don't have an EB right now to test and confirm.
Can anybody else confirm that?
Yeah the depth pot will have some effect on the delay time with the LFO off.
any more news on when you'll have PCBs again?
Still waiting on them, keep getting uninformative status mails, but it will definitely be by the end of this month.
I've got the delay working with all the mods except the diode lift.
When I hit the bypass switch it just kills the signal.
The tails switch doesn't seem to have any effect.
When I switch the bypass switch the signal disappears but the tails keep going regardless of which position the switch is in.
Anyone have any ideas or know how I would go about tracing the clean signal path?
Thanks
Bob, if you respond to this post it'll go back in my "new replies" list so it will remind me to come back tomorrow with some ideas for things to check. I'll take a look at a finished board I have to give some ideas of where to probe, etc.
any chance of a revised board with some of the more common mods on it as an option? had to squeeze a daughter board into mine and with all the jumpers it kinda ruined the flawless look of your beautiful work. (enough grease?)
will be ordering more myself soon (so long as they come back into stock)
Thanks Taylor
Let me know when you can.
Quote from: Ginsengbob on August 17, 2011, 02:09:51 AM
When I hit the bypass switch it just kills the signal.
Have you done the "clean kill" mod? If you have double check you've done it correctly, that's the only thing that should kill the dry signal.
Should be pretty easy to trace the problem the dry sound just goes in to pin 3 of the opamp top left on the board then out of pin 1, that bit must be working other wise you'd get no sound at all. It then goes through the 10k resistor that you remove to do the clean kill mod into pin 6 of the opamp and out of pin 7. The rest of that part must be working otherwise you wouldn't hear the delay. So the problem is almost certainly round the 10k resistor.
I'd remove the PT2399 and the CD4066, that will give you just the dry signal, then probe around until you find the problem.
On the tails problem, does the LED work when you bypass the pedal? It should go off in bypass and flash in time with the mod speed when on. If that works the problem is probably to do with the wiring of the tails switch.
the Clean kill mod works correctly when the delay is engaged.
I'll try tracing the audio like you say when I get home.
I wasn't going to us the led. Would this make a difference?
I'll hook it up to see if it is working correctly.
thanks for your help, I hope i can get this working right.
the delay portion is awesome
.
Quote from: Ginsengbob on August 17, 2011, 04:10:14 PM
the Clean kill mod works correctly when the delay is engaged.
I'm a bit confused by this, so when the delay is engaged you get the dry sound and the delay? So if you turn the delay level all the way down you can still hear the dry signal and you can kill this by flipping the clean kill switch.
You don't need the LED, it will work fine without it. It's just a quick way to get an idea if the bypass switching and the CD4066 are working
Yes, when the delay is engaged I get the dry sound and the delay. When I turn the delay level all the way down I can still hear the dry signal and you can kill this by flipping the clean kill switch. The tails hang over but I can't turn them off. It makes no sense.
This is something else weird I noticed.
if I take a alligator clip from the 1/4" input + jack and jumper it directly to the 1/4" + output jack it still won't give me clean sound when the delay is not engaged.
I get clean sound when the delay is engaged and I can kill the clean sound with the mod to get only delay sounds.
But when I disengage the delay I can't get clean sound from anywhere.
The way I was going to trace the audio is to have an alligator clip connected to the + 1/4" output and touch the pins on the places you mention.
thanks
i tried 4 different leds and none of them work although the delay time changes a bit when i add the led.
I get clean signal from pin 3 of upper left tl072 but not pin 1.
No signal from either side of the 10k clean kill resistor but it still works when the the delay is engaged.
So when in bypass, you get no sound regardless of the position of the clean kill switch?
Did you get the pedal working completely before doing mods? I recommend that as it vastly complicates debugging when you have a bunch of mods and you're not sure if the basic pedal is working first. Then go through and add each mod and check it, until it breaks. When it breaks you'll know what did it and it will be easier to pinpoint.
In bypass no sound at all except for tails.
Everything worked before I tried to put it in the enclosure.
I do all the mods when I'm making the pedal because every time I try to desolder something I end up getting in trouble with pull a pad or a trace up.
Ah, so if everything worked before you put it in the box, that narrows things down a bit. It tells us that the components on the board are probably all good, but there must be some issue with the wiring most likely. Do you have any wires or other things floating around either over or under the board that could potentially short against something?
Can you post a photo of your build? Sometimes that helps us to see something.
I have double checked all my wires.
I used off board wiring so a pic might just be confusing.
All the pots,mods, switches and jacks are fine except for no clean signal in bypass mode.
I also tied all the grounds to the power ground.
I don't know if this would make a difference but when I was swapping out ics to test them I accidentally put a max1044 in place of the upper left tl072.
I don't know if the power was even hooked up to the board before I realized it but I thought I would mention it.
Could this have fried any components that would cause this?
Hmm, offhand I have no clue what would happen plugging a 1044 into a TL074 circuit. If power was not hooked up it definitely wouldn't be a problem though.
The way the switching works in this pedal, the clean signal is never switched in any way. So that means that your bypass switch is killing the sound, which leads me to think that you have a stray wire touching some part of the clean signal chain which then gets grounded in bypass.
That would make a lot of sense because like I said in bypass mode if i run a jumper from input jack positive to output jack positive I still don't get any signal.
I will look for anything shorting out the clean signal.
Any obvious places to trace the signal besides pin 3 of the upper tl072?
Taylor and Slacker
You guys really know your shit.
There was a very tiny solder bridge on the input signal.
I know you guys must get tired of all the stupid questions from people (like me) on these threads but you really helped me think in new ways
and made it possible to think this problem through.
Now I will enjoy this pedal even more.
Thanks
No problem, glad it got sorted and you're enjoying it. Perpetual thanks to Slacker for such a fun pedal!
Is there any way to lower the volume of the Dub madness effect?
Also maybe make it take longer to come in, like a longer fade in?
Experiment with increasing the value of the series resistor (I think it's 27k in the diagram). Replace it with a trimpot or an external pot for max tweakability.
Quote from: Ginsengbob on August 18, 2011, 04:01:12 PM
Is there any way to lower the volume of the Dub madness effect?
Quote from: Taylor on August 18, 2011, 04:36:11 PM
Experiment with increasing the value of the series resistor (I think it's 27k in the diagram). Replace it with a trimpot or an external pot for max tweakability.
Maybe replace the "wet volume" resistor with something higher too on the stomp switch. This should bring the delay volume down in dubmadness mode. Then switches back to normal volume afterward.
How is it looking for getting the PCB's back in by the end of the month?
Echo Base boards are here! (finally)
I just updated the page so you can purchase them. Along with that, new lower shipping prices, both in the US and internationally.
I just made some tweaks to the shopping cart and website so if anybody does make a purchase, if you could let me know if everything went smoothly with the cart, that would be a big help. Paypal won't let me pay myself to test it. :P
Quote from: Ginsengbob on August 18, 2011, 04:01:12 PM
Is there any way to lower the volume of the Dub madness effect?
Also maybe make it take longer to come in, like a longer fade in?
There's an idea to make it fade in and out here http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=84109.msg708753#msg708753 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=84109.msg708753#msg708753) I don't know if it works, I never built it.
Does anyone have the drilling template that was posted on page 8 from Barcode? The link comes up file not found.
Thanks
Quote from: Taylor on August 27, 2011, 06:03:14 AM
Echo Base boards are here! (finally)
I just updated the page so you can purchase them. Along with that, new lower shipping prices, both in the US and internationally.
I just made some tweaks to the shopping cart and website so if anybody does make a purchase, if you could let me know if everything went smoothly with the cart, that would be a big help. Paypal won't let me pay myself to test it. :P
I just ordered one and it all went smooooothly. ;D
Quote from: JohnL on August 27, 2011, 09:44:56 AM
Does anyone have the drilling template that was posted on page 8 from Barcode? The link comes up file not found.
Thanks
long story with my hosting provider. Let me see if I still have it on my hard drive.
EDIT: no dice. if anyone still has my drilling template, please PM and email it to me. I'll put it back up on my site.
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
What does the LED do? Knowing that would help.
If you've got a meter that should be able to tell you where the problem is. If you measure the voltage on the collector of the bypass transistor, that's the pin nearest the CD4066, with the bypass switch open or disconnected you should get about 1 volt or lower. With the switch closed or the wire shorted to ground you should get 8 volts or more. If you don't get similar readings then the problem is somewhere around the transistor.
If the voltages are Ok, then measure from the middle pin of the tails switch, you should get the same readings as at the collector. Then measure from pins 12 and 13 of the CD4066, depending on the position of the tails switch one of those should follow the collector and the other should be about 9 volts.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right.
I built a Gristleizer a few months ago and that is sweet (bizarre but sweet) so I thought I would try the echo base. I love the musicpcb boards, top notch. So thank you for offering such nice products to people who spend way too much time alone with hot metal rod...
I am so close on the echo base but I need a little help please. I am near the some spot as the post I quoted above. Here is where I am:
I get sound but no delay, just guitar only. My LED works with the bypass and is changes with the LFO pot and switch. I can hear a ticking sound if I turn up the time pot. From the post above, my bypass transistor is working properly. My middle pin of the tails switch matches the collector.
on my CD4066, pin 12 shows 4.26 an pin 13 shows 2.7 no matter which position my tails switch is in.
When I use the audio probe, I get only clean guitar on pin 16 of the pt2399. I am stuck. Any help anyone can give would be great. Thanks!
I built a Gristleizer a few months ago and that is sweet (bizarre but sweet) so I thought I would try the echo base. I love the musicpcb boards, top notch. So thank you for offering such nice products to people who spend way too much time alone with hot metal rod...
I am so close on the echo base but I need a little help please. I am near the some spot as the post I quoted above. Here is where I am:
I get sound but no delay, just guitar only. My LED works with the bypass and is changes with the LFO pot and switch. I can hear a ticking sound if I turn up the time pot. From the post above, my bypass transistor is working properly. My middle pin of the tails switch matches the collector.
on my CD4066, pin 12 shows 4.26 an pin 13 shows 2.7 no matter which position my tails switch is in.
When I use the audio probe, I get only clean guitar on pin 16 of the pt2399. I am stuck. Any help anyone can give would be great. Thanks!
Quote from: samiam691 on August 27, 2011, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: slacker on October 27, 2010, 04:00:54 PM
What does the LED do? Knowing that would help.
If you've got a meter that should be able to tell you where the problem is. If you measure the voltage on the collector of the bypass transistor, that's the pin nearest the CD4066, with the bypass switch open or disconnected you should get about 1 volt or lower. With the switch closed or the wire shorted to ground you should get 8 volts or more. If you don't get similar readings then the problem is somewhere around the transistor.
If the voltages are Ok, then measure from the middle pin of the tails switch, you should get the same readings as at the collector. Then measure from pins 12 and 13 of the CD4066, depending on the position of the tails switch one of those should follow the collector and the other should be about 9 volts.
Let us know what you find and we can go from there.
Quote from: Taylor on October 26, 2010, 09:00:17 PM
Yeah, I don't remember who or what forum but somebody didn't want the tails function so they left this unpopulated and the bypass did not work right.
I built a Gristleizer a few months ago and that is sweet (bizarre but sweet) so I thought I would try the echo base. I love the musicpcb boards, top notch. So thank you for offering such nice products to people who spend way too much time alone with hot metal rod...
I am so close on the echo base but I need a little help please. I am near the some spot as the post I quoted above. Here is where I am:
I get sound but no delay, just guitar only. My LED works with the bypass and is changes with the LFO pot and switch. I can hear a ticking sound if I turn up the time pot. From the post above, my bypass transistor is working properly. My middle pin of the tails switch matches the collector.
on my CD4066, pin 12 shows 4.26 an pin 13 shows 2.7 no matter which position my tails switch is in.
When I use the audio probe, I get only clean guitar on pin 16 of the pt2399. I am stuck. Any help anyone can give would be great. Thanks!
The issue is likely with the delay chip. Do you have 5v on pin 1 of the 2399?
Wow, thanks for the quick reply.
yes, my pin 1 of 2399 is 5.01 volts.
Is it a bad 2399?
Ordered a board this morning and everything went smooth.
Dom
Is there any one place that carries all the components to populate the PCB? I have searched Small Bear, Mammoth and Pedal Parts Plus and haven't been able to find all the IC's and transistors at any single one of them. Any other suggestions?
Small Bear definitely has all the ICs. If you check the first five pages of the big Echo Base thread, there are some suggestions for substituting transistors if you can't get the ones in the bill of materials. The transistors are really not too critical.
Sounds good. I just went back though the BoM for the IC's and the transistors and found all but the BC560 trans. I'll go look on the other thread and see what it says for a sub. THANKS!
I do have 5 volts at pin 1 of my pt2399 and I also switched it out with another pt2399 I got from small bear and all the rest as I stated below. Can anyone tell me what I should to next to get this echo base to work?
Quote from: samiam691 on August 27, 2011, 03:44:09 PM
I built a Gristleizer a few months ago and that is sweet (bizarre but sweet) so I thought I would try the echo base. I love the musicpcb boards, top notch. So thank you for offering such nice products to people who spend way too much time alone with hot metal rod...
I am so close on the echo base but I need a little help please. I am near the some spot as the post I quoted above. Here is where I am:
I get sound but no delay, just guitar only. My LED works with the bypass and is changes with the LFO pot and switch. I can hear a ticking sound if I turn up the time pot. From the post above, my bypass transistor is working properly. My middle pin of the tails switch matches the collector.
on my CD4066, pin 12 shows 4.26 an pin 13 shows 2.7 no matter which position my tails switch is in.
When I use the audio probe, I get only clean guitar on pin 16 of the pt2399. I am stuck. Any help anyone can give would be great. Thanks!
It actually sounds like the 2399 is working if you get noise at max time. So the problem is likely that the audio is not getting into the 2399.
Go through sequentially and see if you have guitar signal at these points
4066 pin 1
4066 pin 2
2399 pin 16
2399 pin 14
ok,
4066 pin 1 is clean guitar
4066 pin 2 is clean guitar
2399 pin 14 in no sound
2399 pin 16 is the ticking lfo sound
thank you for your help
What should I do next?
Quote from: samiam691 on September 03, 2011, 08:09:28 PM
ok,
4066 pin 1 is clean guitar
4066 pin 2 is clean guitar
2399 pin 14 in no sound
2399 pin 16 is the ticking lfo sound
thank you for your help
Before you said you had clean guitar at pin 16, now not?
My guess is that you simply have a bad solder joint somewhere in between pin 2 of the 4066, and the delay chip. Early on most of my debug problems could be fixed by reflowing all of my solder joints and checking for bridged traces/joints.
Being only my second build, would someone with more experience please give this a lookover for whatever mistakes you can find? THANKS!!! ;D ;D
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6157507880_7ae09cebdd_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6079/6156964747_5e0e0b3659_b.jpg)
Looks pretty good to me, but cold joints aren't easy to see, especially in a photo.
Most problems in builds tend to be in wiring rather than on the board. If you use onboard pots you'll greatly decrease your chances of needing debugging.
Thanks. I inspected each solder joint as I went along and remelted a few that looked questionable. I do plan on using onboard pots just like the layout in your second pic in your very first post in this thread. Of course, if I had soldered them in, a good portion of the back of the PCB would be covered and a pic would have been just about useless.
Looks like maybe you forgot your IC's.... ;D
Quote from: Barcode80 on September 17, 2011, 10:29:21 PM
Looks like maybe you forgot your IC's.... ;D
Do I really need them? ;D
my OCD tells me some of your resistors are round the wrong, way and one of them is the wrong colour, but then my ones have different coloured caps (annoys me so much)
OK.....I got mine done. Sounds great. :icon_biggrin: Thought I would show it off. A big plus...I have the IC's in this time. ;)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6176895775_92a4fc2d98_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6176895711_e26225ca80_b.jpg)
Very nice.
Thanks Slacker. Coming from the guy that designed the EchoBase, that means a good bit to me. Being that I'm still a noob and this is only my second build.
Quote from: Thump-Lump on September 24, 2011, 04:01:18 AM
OK.....I got mine done. Sounds great. :icon_biggrin: Thought I would show it off. A big plus...I have the IC's in this time. ;)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6176895775_92a4fc2d98_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6176895711_e26225ca80_b.jpg)
Quality not quantity.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6176895711_e26225ca80_b.jpg)
dang fine looking board!
Thanks everyone ;D I have since found a source for 3 wire ribbon type wire of a good quality and gauge. The colors are red/black/yellow or white. It is used in radio control models so if you have a hobby shop locally that does R/C, you may want to stop by and see if they have any. I know it would clean up my off board wiring.
http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/accessories/switches-battery-boxes-wiring-and-adapters/heavy-duty-servo-extensions-and-wiring.html (http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/accessories/switches-battery-boxes-wiring-and-adapters/heavy-duty-servo-extensions-and-wiring.html)
Built mine up a few days ago and have been enjoying it immensely. Great quality PCB. I built it with the LFO waveshape mod and the dub madness mod on a momentary footswitch. I used a 2N3906 instead of the BC560 (reversed pinout) and a 78L05 instead of the 7805. I might just have to build another one.
When implementing the Dub Madness mod, does the 3rd lug of the feedback knob need to be connected to the board and then you additionally wire the throw of the SPST to it (to connect or disconnect the extra 27 k resistor)
OR simply the dont solder the 3rd pot lug in, and then run the wire to the board?
Also, do you still have to have the 20k resistor on the board for this mod? It isnt mentioned to remove it?
Hope that makes sense.
Thanks
Ian
Yes the feedback pot is connected as normal and you keep the original 20k resistor.
There's a schematic here that shows the mods, might make them clearer http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/audiomods.jpg (http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/audiomods.jpg)
cheers Ian
Ok, just testing this build.
Dub mod works.
Tails swtich works.
Clean kill works.
However, LFO does seem to work. Put it on a footswitch. Also the LED isnt blinking for the LFO rate.
Any ideas on first things to check ? Ill be back with voltages shortly....
Delay works fine. LFO Depth knob affects the delay time with LFO either on or off...
Dumb ass, fixed it. Missed a connection on the speed pot to the Waveshape. DERP!
So I am having the problem talked about here and want to try this fix:
Quote from: Gila_Crisis on August 12, 2008, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: Filament on August 12, 2008, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Gila_Crisis on August 11, 2008, 05:01:56 PM
i built it and i'm really pleased, it sounds really really good!!!
btw what value do you suggest for R17? on mine i used the standard 20k resistor, but it's too low, already before 3/4 of the feedback pot it start selfoscillating!!! :icon_eek:
Gila, Slacker suggests trying a 100K resistor there. I found that mine would oscillate very quickly with the 20K resistor so I changed it and now it won't start oscillating till about 4 O'Clock. Further on from that gets pretty crazy which is great. Hope that helps.
thank you! it's what i allready did and now it works fine! maybe i'll give a try to a more higher value but with 100k it really better than before!
btw awesome sounding delay!!!!
i'm glad i built it!
Am I correct in assuming that the 20K resistor is the one directly under the Feedback pot?
Yes that's the one.
Thanks Slacker, thought so but needed confirmation. Now to find some time to do it...
I ordered a PCB a few months back but didnt get a chance to build it until this week. It went together super smooth and worked off the bat! what a fun pedal! When I get it cased up I'll post some pics!
??? So I finally got one musicpcb's projects to kinda work for me. 5 boards, pads lifted in vital spots while trouble shooting them. A board was sent when I complained but the same damn thing happened to it. I'm using a little 20w iron too. $$$ WASTED!! I got this Echobase to halfway work and I treated it like a babies heart. The bypass doesn't work, the tails switch doesn't work, the dub madness mod doesn't work, LFO ticks and swirls spill out into the clean sound faintly, and the clean kill mod didn't work. I'm no dummy, and the directions were simple. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the static when I max out the time. Has anyone else had these problems? Can anyone help? One more question, does anyone know what to do with 2 Christine's, 2 Echobases and Meatshere boards? All of them have lifted traces and missing pads.
>:( Maybe change out where your boards are made?
I never had anything like this happen with Taylor's boards, they worked with little/no debug for me. Whatever board house is making them seemed quite on par for the other board houses' work I've dealt with.
Maxing the time will make the delays pretty dirty on any PT2399 based delay, it's inherent to the limitations of the chip.
How long do you have to hold your 20W iron on the pads to get them hot? If it's more than a few seconds, it could be that the iron doesn't get hot enough and that extra time can put more stress on the board.
2 seconds to warm it, 2 for solder and flux flow, I remove the solder wire and remain 2 seconds more to let it spread. What sucks is when I've had to remove anything the pad comes right off with the part. I'm just a whiner and was tired of feeling like I'm the only one with this problem. These boards in particular I've had NO success with. It's hard for me to deal with it. Time to start makin my own I guess. Then I can only gripe at myself.
I removed the diode lift and put the clean kill back on the board (they were rigged on their own munchkin board). Changed the pole I was wired to for the temp. stomp on dub madness, and rewired tails. Now lets see what happens...
Sounds like your iron is fine. Removing parts is always sketchy - even the best pcb's have a risk of delaminating when popping out parts.
Still no tails and dub madness is LOUD madness. Had a bad TL072, replaced it. It bypasses now. I found the tails! It's between the switch's poles. Wired it wrong I guess....
Hank, I am definitely sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had with the boards. I've offered several times now to give you full refunds. You've never taken me up on it. That offer still stands. I would normally prefer to discuss this stuff privately, but since you bring this up on the forum, and you mention your money being wasted, it seems reasonable for me to point this out.
I do appreciate feedback on the boards, and if anybody else here has had similar problems please let me know about it. So far this is the only instance in which I've heard about issues like this.
If you would like help debugging, I'm happy to help - that's what this thread is for. If you would like a refund for the boards, I'm happy to do that as well.
I have Echo lift off!
Did I say it sounds great and I love it?
Quote from: Barcode80 on August 27, 2011, 03:35:36 PM
Quote from: JohnL on August 27, 2011, 09:44:56 AM
Does anyone have the drilling template that was posted on page 8 from Barcode? The link comes up file not found.
Thanks
long story with my hosting provider. Let me see if I still have it on my hard drive.
EDIT: no dice. if anyone still has my drilling template, please PM and email it to me. I'll put it back up on my site.
Anyone still happen to have the pdf of my drilling template?
Does anyone have an extra 1m pot for the LFO speed? I build mine up but the only pot I could find at Digikey ends up not being a threaded mountable type and its all plastic, D'OH! It works but I cant imagine it working for long. Otherwise I'll have to wait for my next order from somewhere that has them :P
Hi guys,
I am trying to debug, I get sound from pins 14 and 15 but not 16 or 6?
I get no sound from one side of the 470p but do on the other side?
Can somebody please help.
I can not seem to understand what is going on.
Does your delay chip have 5v at pin 1?
Hi Taylor,
I just checked the PT2399 has 4.56 volts at pin 1
Quote from: Poste on December 03, 2011, 12:47:01 AM
I am trying to debug, I get sound from pins 14 and 15 but not 16 or 6?
You only get a very quiet sound on pin 16 so you might not be able to hear it. If you've got sound on pins 14 and 15 then the PT2399 is working so I wouldn't worry about pin 16.
What's wrong with it?
It sounds like there's clean signal but no echo. So the problem probably lies between the output of the 2399 and the last opamp stage. Could be something up with the switching. Did you wire the switching in any unusual way (leaving out the tails switch, for example)?
I am getting echo in the circuit.
The feedback and and level pots have sound, however no sound in the other pots.
The tails is wired to a switch to work on both options, one way I get a nice echo, but the other way sends the sound crazy.
Hey gang, I just got finished building my echo base. I had the whole thing wired up yesterday in the enclosure all nice, to find out something was wrong. after many trials, I now have it wired up outside of the enclosure. Here is what im getting so far- I have the led working and oscilating with the lfo on off switch working as well. All i get is clean guitar signal. the first time i had it wired up with a battery, I did get the effect, however with a bunch of noise and a really soft guitar signal. I accounted this to not being grounded properly. I am going to try and get through the debugging list and i will post it shortly. also, not sure how to upload pictures to this board.
You'll need to upload them to a image hosting site (photobucket, imgur, whatever your favorite) and use the img tags.
[img]http://yourlinkhere.com[/img]
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Alexander_Allgood/photo-1.jpg)
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd382/Alexander_Allgood/photo.jpg)
1.echobase
6. clean guitar signal passes through when led is on. led does oscillate. effect did work but was very noisy when i originally hooked up the circuit with a battery. I also had not grounded any of the jacks at that point either. Now it is wired up just to use a 9v adaptor.
4.Any modifications to the circuit? No
5.Any parts substitutions? no
6.Positive ground to negative ground conversion? not that i know of.
If anyone has any idea I'd be eternally grateful.
I'm not really sure how to check the pinout voltages on the ic's. I can get voltages for you, but im not sure which pins are which.
NM it works! hazah!
Yay! Nice when that happens. :)
almost done building 1 of 2 echo base's everything but the diode lift mod went into this one, i did do the resistor switch for humbuckers...
i've read and read, but i can't find anywhere, what is the mA (milliamps) required at 9V to power this effect? I'd rather not go guess with a 200mA and go up...
thanks!
Current draw is about 30mA
ooph! i think the smallest i have is 100mA, good thing, thanks!
A 100mA supply will work fine, the circuit just draws whatever current it needs, using a supply that can provide more won't damage it. If your power supply is regulated just plug it in and it will work fine.
If it's unregulated or you don't whether it is or not, then measure the voltage of the power supply before you plug in into the Echo Base, if it's unregulated the voltage may be higher than 9 volts, but so long as it is less than 15 volts it will work fine. If it measures more than 15 volts then there's a chance it may damage the CD4066.
thanks for that! you guys rock! when we are looking at the build document, for the wave shape mod (B25k pot) are we looking at the back of the pot when wiring it? i'm wondering the same thing about the Wave Distort on the Tap Tempo Tremolo mod
It doesn't matter which way round you wire the waveshape pot. If you want the triangle to be in the anti clockwise position then looking at the front of the pot connect the blue wire to the left hand lug and the red wire to the right hand lug. If you want it the other way round then reverse the wires.
THANKS! rock on! are there products you also have on the interwebs? i'd be interested in building anything!
Hi Guys,
I've been living with the echo base for a few time now.
I have a few thing / issues:
1. I have a permanent hiss as soon as the pedal is on the board, whether it's on or off. It's annoying enough to be a show stopper, i don't know if it's my build or a design thing. Anyone can tell?
2. The repeats seems to be all in the same very short frequencies window: no bass / low medium. all medium and not so much nice highs.
There's nothing in there that make this pedal a crappy one, but there's enough to make it one i very much don't like.
Is it a taste thing or are these things stuff i can try to improve?
It might add a small amount of hiss, but not enough to be a show stopper. Possibly you have a problem with your build.
Here's a couple of videos that give a good idea what it is supposed to sound like. They might give you an idea if you have a problem with your build or if you just don't like how the pedal sounds.
Wow!! Just like the old "freak out" days ... :icon_lol: Sure a Lot of possibilities ... What a COOL pedal .... :icon_cool:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/406337_1697124405232_1751522634_829341_1741295195_n.jpg)
thanks for all the help ! with out you guys i wouldn't have had the courage to get this far.
sound/video soon enough.
Nice!
Quote from: slacker on December 19, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
It might add a small amount of hiss, but not enough to be a show stopper. Possibly you have a problem with your build.
Thanks for the videos links.
Here's a mp3 sample i made from the pedal. The first seconds are the echo base, the last one are a memory toy.
http://djaaz.free.fr/echobase.mp3
They illustrate two things:
1. The hiss is quite obvious
2. The lack of bass
Is there anything that i could/should check?
Thanks in advance!
That sounds like it is either a bad PT2399 or you have a bad connection or wrong components round the PT2399. If you turn the level to zero does the hiss stop? If it does it is definitely coming from the PT2399.
I would check all the components and connections down the left and right sides of the PT2399.
Thanks for your answer.
I should have mentioned a few points:
The hiss comes wether the effect is off or on, maybe a minute or so after the pedal is powered.
If i turn the level pot to from zero to full clock, i have noises & sometime the hiss stop for a few seconds.
Only mod is "dub madness" with the resistor soldered directly from the board to the spdt switch. Tested before boxing.
I did not notice that hiss with the pedal out of its box but i do not focus that much on small noises as long as a board is not in its enclosure.
This sample is with the effect off, turning the level pot from an end to the other.
http://djaaz.free.fr/hiss.mp3
As the pedal is boxed, i will need an hour to unbox it, check the board & components and try another PT2399 i have lying around.
Hey all, just finished up my build and everything is working and sounding great EXCEPT.....I set this pedal up with true bypass wiring, clean kill switch, LFO switch and tails switch....all of which work perfectly fine, BUT, when I switch from bypass to the effect I get about an 80% volume drop.....I know this can't be normal. The effect sounds good, no distorting or hissing...all the pots work fine, but to me it sounds like there's a resistor that needs to be changed somewhere or something. I've checked and double checked my connections and everything seems to be good....any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. THanks!
The circuit is not designed, as is, to be true bypass. Modding it to be true bypass is the kind of mod that will involve some tinkering, since you're making it do something for which it wasn't designed. I've never tried TB on the EB, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a volume drop and it could be quite normal.
If you increase the value of the 10k resistor that's directly to the right of pin 4 of the TL072, you will raise the gain of the output stage. You might put sockets there and try a few different values, or put a pot there and you can have an overall volume knob.
I know it's not designed to be TB, and I figured it might need a little tweaking, but the volume difference is HUGE :o
I thought I would just put in a 250K trimpot and adjust it till i find the sweet spot...
Which 10k resistor exactly...in that row there's a 100K on top followed by 3 10K resistors.....1st, 2nd or 3rd one down? (Looks to me it would be the 2nd one?)
Yes, the second one down. 250k is probably going to be way more than you need, so all the useful adjustment will be bunched up in a tiny area, but it will work if you don't have anything smaller.
Have a 100K right here....I'll give it a go and keep you posted....Thanks!!!
Ok, so I took out the 10K resistor, replaced it with a 100k trimpot and found that only around the 25k range and the 0-10K range would pass any sound. The 25k range was overdriven, almost fuzz-pedal like, but the best volume/sound improvement was setting the trimpot to 0....so I just put a jumper in that space. Would there be any other values of resistors I could try lowering/raising to try to get even more overall volume? What I did did improve the volume a bit, but the sound difference between on and bypass is still pretty significant.
Are you sure you swapped the right one? Lowering that resistor below 10k should lower the gain of this amplifier, not raise it. I'm trying to figure out how you might have gotten the results you did. You're saying that the sound cuts out from 10k to 25k? Possibly a bad trimpot?
I'm sure I got the right one....Don't think the trimpot is bad, it's brand new...plus I already took it out and jumpered it....it's definitely louder than it was, but still only about 50% of what it should be as when bypassed. As I turned the trimpot from 0 clockwise, the volume would slowly lower till it got kinda fuzzy, like it was a bad range? Then right around 25-35K it would hit another sweet spot, but this time with ALOT more gain, not so much more volume....like I said, it sounded like I just added a fuzz feature to the echo :D As I got passed 40K, the sound mostly went away and I could tell was out of range or had too much gain. With it turned all the way down, it was nice and clean, and louder than it was with the 10k resistor there. Is there possibly another resistor I could change near the input/output that might further increase the overall volume?
And just to make sure:
100K
10K
(TL072) 10K <---- This is the one I took out
10K
1M5
There shouldn't be any volume drop if you true bypass it, so trying to fix it by making it louder isn't the answer. How have you wired it for true bypass? My guess is it's a problem with how you've done it, especially as you say the tails switch works and this shouldn't do anything if it's true bypassed.
I've bypassed it correctly....I've built well over a dozen of these things and the TB is something I ALWAYS add to whatever I'm building. I've wired the cancel switch in to the 3pdt switch, basically to just turn the LED on and off when I switch back and forth from bypass to on (and of course to turn the board on when not bypassed). Why wouldn't the tails switch work when the pedal is on with true bypass? I don't know what else to change or test....It honestly sounds to me like the pedal is just a major volume/tone sucker. The effect sounds good....all the switches/knobs work fine. I'm going to add an output buffer circuit to it to get an overall volume boost....I've now triple and quadruple checked everything and don't think it's any of my solder points or wrong values/components....I'm gonna give the output buffer a go and see what happens....
Quote from: deeptubez on December 27, 2011, 09:57:45 AM
I've wired the cancel switch in to the 3pdt switch, basically to just turn the LED on and off when I switch back and forth from bypass to on (and of course to turn the board on when not bypassed).
Sorry, just to make sure I understand correctly, have you done A or B?
A: Kept the original bypass/cancel switch and added a separate true bypass switch.
B: Removed the original bypass switch so there is just the true bypass switch.
Quote
Why wouldn't the tails switch work when the pedal is on with true bypass?
If you've done A then you can still have tails if you set it to "On" using the true bypass and then use the original switch to cancel the delays.
If you've done B then the tails switch can't do anything, because when it's bypassed the pedal's input and output aren't connected to anything, so there's no way you can hear the tails. Some people have tried to do "true bypass" by leaving the output connected to get the tails, this doesn't work and will give massive tone sucking. That's why I asked how you'd true bypassed it.
Quote
It honestly sounds to me like the pedal is just a major volume/tone sucker.
It's not, the dry signal path is just a couple of buffers, there's nowhere for there to be any volume loss, you must have a problem somewhere. The dry path is really simple so it should be easy to debug using an audio probe, if you haven't got one there's instructions how to make one here http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging (http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging).
With the pedal on, probe the following points on the board, this is looking at the component side of the board and the opamp is the one under the Level control.
"IN" pad on the board
Pins 1, 2 and 3 of the opamp
The left hand side of the 10k resistor next to pin 3 of the opamp, this is the one you remove to do the clean kill mod.
Pin 7 of the opamp
Both sides of the 220n capacitor above the opamp
The "OUT" pad on the board
Somewhere along that path you'll find where it's dropping the volume. Let us know where and we can figure out how to fix it :)
Duuuuhhh!! I don't know why I didn't think to audio probe it earlier......bad op amp! :icon_eek: Pedal works and sounds great now...luckily I had an extra. Major loss of signal once I tested it and once I swapped it, problem solved. Thanks for the input slacker! And to answer your question, the cancel switch is wired to the switch so that when the pedal is on, the cancel switch pads are connected, and when the pedal is bypassed, the pads are disconnected (the main reason I did this was to use the pcb pads for the LED and it's the only way I could get the damn thing to shut off! ;D) The volume is perfect across the board and anyone wanting to make this true bypass, I would recommend it. Thanks for the help!
Just jammed on it for the passed hour or so, and I'm really diggin' it :icon_biggrin:
Here's a couple pics
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/398040_2611075234016_1169058050_32354120_120554841_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/390845_2611075554024_1169058050_32354121_2124035502_n.jpg)
Quote from: deeptubez on December 27, 2011, 07:06:14 PM
Duuuuhhh!! I don't know why I didn't think to audio probe it earlier......bad op amp! :icon_eek: Pedal works and sounds great now...luckily I had an extra. Major loss of signal once I tested it and once I swapped it, problem solved. Thanks for the input slacker! And to answer your question, the cancel switch is wired to the switch so that when the pedal is on, the cancel switch pads are connected, and when the pedal is bypassed, the pads are disconnected (the main reason I did this was to use the pcb pads for the LED and it's the only way I could get the damn thing to shut off! ;D) The volume is perfect across the board and anyone wanting to make this true bypass, I would recommend it. Thanks for the help!
FYI, that is not true bypass. That's why everyone was confused. True bypass means the entire effect would be out of the chain when switched off, not just the canceling of the wet signal.
You don't understand: I'm using the cancel switch on the board AND true bypassing it at the same time (using a 3pdt switch) Trust me, it's wired for true bypass...it's how I wire all my pedals. The only reason I don't just hardwire the cancel switch together is because I want the LED to shut off....I preferred wiring the LED to the board and just using the cancel switch on the board to shut the LED off when true bypassed. Kinda confusing, I know, but look at the switch in the picture....the 1st stomp switch to the left is a SPST that controls the LFO on/off, the next is my 3pdt switch and you can see exactly how I have it wired and you can see it is true bypass....when pressed the signal passes straight from the input through the switch and straight to the output.
Cool, glad you fixed it.
can i ignore the bypass spot on the pcb and wire the in/out to the 3pdt like a normal pcb? if i understand this correctly this would disable tails and the need for the tails switch?
i need to get my enclosure done being drilled, as i have 13 pedals on my board and not a single delay!
Yes, if you completely leave out the tails switch that makes the effect permanently on, then you can just use normal true bypass wiring. If you want you can wire the bypass pads to the 3PDT this lets you use the on board LED as your indicator or you can just add your own LED.
ok, double checking to make sure i understand this. i can wire the 3pdt to the bypass switch, wire the jacks to the in/out, and have a non true bypass pedal that will allow me to use the onboard led pads for the led indicator or i can wire the 3pdt to the in/out pads, and have to provide my own led indicator wiring.
i have 2 jeft buffers in my pedal chain so im not too concerned with true bypass/buffered bypass, but i am not interested in the tails so trying to figure out what the easiest way i can wire it up without them is. is the non true bypass the reason some people talk about oscillation in their effect chain? most of my pedals behave weirdly in my chain when i have my compressor on, so i am trying to make this as hassle free as i can.
Here's what you want to do:
3pdt:
|1|2|3|
|4|5|6|
|7|8|9|
Connect the following:
1 to cancel switch on PCB
4 to cancel switch on PCB
2 to input jack tip
2 jumpered to 9
5 to IN on PCB
3 to OUT on PCB
6 to output jack tip
7 & 8 are unused
Wiring it this way will give you true bypass AND let you wire the LED into the spot on the PCB. By wiring the cancel pads on the PCB to the 3pdt, the board will also be in cancel mode when true bypassed....this really shouldn't matter EXCEPT if you want to use the PCB pads for your LED....basically you're just using the cancel pads to turn your LED on and off when bypassed. Get it? ;D
yea. thats sick. im not worried about the tails, as i don't see when i will ever use it. i want a delay and a phaser to play with!!!!
got it wired up, but there is no effect when it is engaged :( the led comes on and changes speed with the speed knob, but there is no delay at all. is it because i left the tails pads open?
nevermind. put a jumper in the tails pads and now it sounds great! thanks guys!
If I don't want to switch the tails on and off and I just want them to always be on, which holes would I jumper?
Thanks!
Middle and left I think.
Hello,
just finished the build today.
i works perfectly when you have all the opamps put on their good direction... (duh.. 1 hour on that :p)
I still have a problem with the signal path : i loose a bit of volume and lots of treble .. i'll have to check that up as i have built a small booster like that and couldn't hear it when bypassed or not.
I also would like to point out that i made the dub madness mod explained in the doc, and it wasn't clear to me that you have to put the resistor on the switch AND the actual 20k resistor into the pads.. i left the 20k resistor empty and i didn't had any delay until i turned the mod on.
For me it wasn't clear on the doc, so i'm just saying it in case other people misunderstand it too
anyway .. i'm going to find what sucks tone and it's going to sound great!
thanks for the nice board taylor
Quote from: ugly_guitar_guy on January 08, 2012, 02:58:29 AM
If I don't want to switch the tails on and off and I just want them to always be on, which holes would I jumper?
Thanks!
Depends which side of the board you're looking :) Mine works like this (middle and right lug connected):
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12284220/Hyperizer_guts.jpg)
-Jaska-
Quote from: g-sus on January 09, 2012, 07:58:33 AM
Depends which side of the board you're looking :) Mine works like this (middle and right lug connected):
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12284220/Hyperizer_guts.jpg)
-Jaska-
Figures, I assumed I was talking about the front face view of the board like yours, so I jumpered it the other way. Have to fix that tonight. Thanks for the pic and clarification! Should have my case done being painted tonight. I put my board in this way because I didn't want to have the knobs be "backwards." Doing the dub mod with led indication for the 2nd footswitch, and a clean kill toggle (upper left hand side). After doing so many 1590A pedals lately this thing was great to work with so much room!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/2012-01-07_14-27-04_219.jpg)
I just gotta say, the 'tails' function is brilliant, and is the main selling point for Echo Base, IMHO. I'm not trying to tell anyone who leaves this function out that their opinion is uninformed or wrong, I just wanted to give Slacker some props for that part of the circuit in particular, and encourage people who haven't built an Echo Base yet to consider leaving 'tails' in and learning how and when to use it. I've been a huge dub fan for half my life and went to school for audio engineering, so something like 'tails' is right up my alley; maybe I'm just biased. I also like that the circuit incorporates CMOS; lots of cool things for effects pedals lurking in that universe. Has anyone Arduinoed the Echo Base yet?
Quote from: garcho on January 09, 2012, 01:38:17 PM
I just gotta say, the 'tails' function is brilliant, and is the main selling point for Echo Base, IMHO. I'm not trying to tell anyone who leaves this function out that their opinion is uninformed or wrong, I just wanted to give Taylor some props for that part of the circuit in particular, and encourage people who haven't built an Echo Base yet to consider leaving 'tails' in and learning how and when to use it. I've been a huge dub fan for half my life and went to school for audio engineering, so something like 'tails' is right up my alley; maybe I'm just biased. I also like that the circuit incorporates CMOS; lots of cool things for effects pedals lurking in that universe. Has anyone Arduinoed the Echo Base yet?
From a guitar player's standpoint, I only prefer tails-on effects. I like to be able to change sounds and have the end of the last sound trailing off. I don't like a hard cut to a delay at all, so it's perfect for me to leave it on. For any non-tailed delays I'll still have a DD-3 on my pedalboard as well. I don't really even foresee much need for the Dub switch, but I figured what the heck and put it there anyways, cause you never know... But I do know about tails. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: garcho on January 09, 2012, 01:38:17 PMI just wanted to give Taylor some props for that part of the circuit in particular,
Thanks but Slacker designed the circuit - I had nothing to do with it other than designing the PCB itself. So he deserves all the credit for the way it sounds and works. :)
Ooops! Sorry y'all, I meant Slacker. Nice PCB, though! :icon_redface:
Quote from: ugly_guitar_guy on January 09, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: g-sus on January 09, 2012, 07:58:33 AM
Depends which side of the board you're looking :) Mine works like this (middle and right lug connected):
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12284220/Hyperizer_guts.jpg)
-Jaska-
Figures, I assumed I was talking about the front face view of the board like yours, so I jumpered it the other way. Have to fix that tonight. Thanks for the pic and clarification! Should have my case done being painted tonight. I put my board in this way because I didn't want to have the knobs be "backwards." Doing the dub mod with led indication for the 2nd footswitch, and a clean kill toggle (upper left hand side). After doing so many 1590A pedals lately this thing was great to work with so much room!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/2012-01-07_14-27-04_219.jpg)
What do you mean by "backwards?" The way you have them they will turn and function the same way as the other way people have been doing it. Or do you mean the order of the controls?
Quote from: Barcode80 on January 10, 2012, 12:52:27 AM
What do you mean by "backwards?" The way you have them they will turn and function the same way as the other way people have been doing it. Or do you mean the order of the controls?
Yeah, I was referring to the location of the controls. Having Speed and Depth on the left side doesn't mesh well with my OCD tendencies. :icon_mrgreen:
Alright... populated the board, wired everything up (with clean kill and dub mode switches, and no toggle for tails) and it freaks out my PSA-120S adapter. The board LED doesn't come on, and the status light on the PSA just blinks rapidly, which possibly indicates a missing ground, a short, or not enough current for the circuit. This is problematic because I can't get a reading on pin voltages of the IC's because the power is literally blinking on and off rapidly. I just really get frustrated when a simple build like this doesn't fire up right away so I guess I'll wire up a 9V directly and get back with some pinout readings.
I'm wondering if I broke one of the pins in the 7805 when I bent it over to fit in the case, but wouldn't the status led still light up?
Thanks in advance...
Sounds like you might have some sort of short across the power supply. Check that the DC jack is wired correctly and that the reverse polarity protection diode, the one next to the 7805, is the correct way round, also check that all the ICs are the correct way round.
After that, with the power off, try measuring the resistance between the positive and ground on the DC jack, you'll need to hold the probes there a while to charge up the caps, but you should get at least a couple of hundred K Ohms. If you get a low value you have some sort of short somewhere on the power traces.
Quote from: slacker on January 12, 2012, 01:01:39 PM
Sounds like you might have some sort of short across the power supply. Check that the DC jack is wired correctly and that the reverse polarity protection diode, the one next to the 7805, is the correct way round, also check that all the ICs are the correct way round.
After that, with the power off, try measuring the resistance between the positive and ground on the DC jack, you'll need to hold the probes there a while to charge up the caps, but you should get at least a couple of hundred K Ohms. If you get a low value you have some sort of short somewhere on the power traces.
Apparently I need to stop building pedals quite so late at night. My 4066 was in upside down. :icon_redface: Always something simple... I also had to replace my 7805 as well because I bent it too many times and broke the pins. Now it's good as gold. Very fun to mess with and going on my pedalboard this week.
I think I'm going to add a pot in place of the resistor for the dub mod so that i can dial in how much feedback I want the max feedback switch to be. Other than that it's pretty damn sweet! Thanks!
so i'm about to wire in the last part, the DC power receptacle, i don't have the matching wall-wart to use yet, should i wait to wire this power connector so i know what the polarity is from the power supply, all power supplies don't follow standard negative pole, positive outer wall method? and thank you all in advance !
Actually, most "standard" adapters will be center positive. The ones we use for guitar effects are almost exclusively center negative.
Make sure you know what your power supply is before.
ah ty! and my last silly question of the day,,, after i built this up, i realize i used a mix bag of "new" panasonic capacitors, from 450 volts to 1.6k volts... thats gonna be an issue or not?
The voltage rating specifies the max voltage that the part can take without derating, melting, or exploding. So you can always use a part that's rated for a higher voltage than it will ever see - in fact you always should use an over-rated part. The only real downside of using extremely over-rated parts is that they are often more expensive and bigger.
Finished my Echo Base with mods. Finish came out more yellow than I wanted (bummer) but looks cool kinda aged.
Mods done:
- Dry cut on a switch
- Waveshape mod
- Runaway Feedback (on a momentary stomp)
(http://www.socaldivevideos.com/stuff/fx/EchoBase.jpg)
Thanks for the great board Taylor!
- MikeT
I finished building up my Echo Base yesterday, which initially went very well.
The problems arose when I realized I accidentally had the I/O jacks on the wrong sides. I switched the sides (resoldered them), and now I don't have control over the feedback. The level knob seems to control it somewhat, but both controls start oscillating when turned up too high.
Can anybody figure out what could be wrong in my build? I had complete control before I switched the in and out jacks.
Thanks,
Travis
When you had the jacks the wrong way, you were still connecting your guitar to the input and the amp to the output right? If so then switching the jacks won't have changed anything by itself - some other wire or part must have been messed up while you were swapping wires around.
Do you have any mods in your build, particularly the dub madness mod?
Quote from: djaaz on December 22, 2011, 07:59:44 PM
Quote from: slacker on December 19, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
It might add a small amount of hiss, but not enough to be a show stopper. Possibly you have a problem with your build.
Thanks for the videos links.
Here's a mp3 sample i made from the pedal. The first seconds are the echo base, the last one are a memory toy.
http://djaaz.free.fr/echobase.mp3
They illustrate two things:
1. The hiss is quite obvious
2. The lack of bass
Is there anything that i could/should check?
Thanks in advance!
Quote from: slacker
That sounds like it is either a bad PT2399 or you have a bad connection or wrong components round the PT2399. If you turn the level to zero does the hiss stop? If it does it is definitely coming from the PT2399.
I would check all the components and connections down the left and right sides of the PT2399.
Hi guys,
I'm still having this issue with this hiss. I unboxed the pcb. Changed the PT2399. Removed the dub madness mod. Removed the led.
Still the same hiss even with level pot at zero.
I will try to audio probe as well as i can.
While i'm at it. something i can change to have more bass on the repeats?
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: Taylor on January 20, 2012, 03:58:01 PM
When you had the jacks the wrong way, you were still connecting your guitar to the input and the amp to the output right? If so then switching the jacks won't have changed anything by itself - some other wire or part must have been messed up while you were swapping wires around.
Do you have any mods in your build, particularly the dub madness mod?
I had the input/output right as far as amp and guitar. The pedal worked fine like that.
I didn't do any mods at all, not even tails/boss or lfo.
Quote from: djaaz on January 20, 2012, 05:46:34 PM
Still the same hiss even with level pot at zero.
If you remove the PT2399 does the hiss go away? With the PT2399 removed the pedal should sound pretty much the same as plugging your guitar straight into your amp and be the same volume. If it does not then you have some sort of problem round the opamp near the level pot.
Quote
While i'm at it. something i can change to have more bass on the repeats?
I would get it working properly first, then see if you still think it needs any mods.
Quote from: slacker on January 21, 2012, 07:04:05 AM
If you remove the PT2399 does the hiss go away? With the PT2399 removed the pedal should sound pretty much the same as plugging your guitar straight into your amp and be the same volume. If it does not then you have some sort of problem round the opamp near the level pot.
Did not try that. I changed this TL072 already as i probed the hiss on pin 16 of the PT2399. Might sound lame but any chance the dc supply cables could provoke some interference with the opamp?
What about the level pot having a direct relation with the nature of the hiss (but not the volume)?
And indeed you're right, let's fix this first.
Kind of half solved:
I remember testing this box with a 9V battery could not trigger any modulation.
So i changed the power supply for a bad regulated supplying 10.3V and no hiss anymore.
Could it be that my build require more voltage?
It is a known problem that the modulation stops working with a weak battery, a fresh one putting out 9 volts should work fine though, also if the battery was very weak the voltage regulator wouldn't work properly, which could cause strange things to happen.
It's not about the battery. It's about the power supply.
I use a well regulated 9V DC supply and i have this hiss.
Tried with another supply unregulated providing 10,2 V: Some hum but no hiss anymore.
Is it safe to try a regulated 12V supply?
bump?
Yes, assuming your capacitors are rated for more than that, it's safe to use a regulated 12 volt supply. You can use any voltage between 9 and 15 volts, over 15 volts and you will damage the CD4066.
This is a very strange problem though, I can't think what could be causing it, I'll have to think about it. With the 9 volt power supply have you measured the voltages when it's powering the Echo Base, just to make sure it is able to provide 9 volts to the circuit.
Forgot to add my Echo Base to the mix. Behold, my Echo Burst!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/FxCam_1326407504419.jpg)
I love this pedal. Just need to dial in a resistor value for the dub switch that isn't quite as drastic. I'd prefer the feedback to climb slowly as opposed to taking off like crazy as soon as the switch is stepped on. Thanks for the great PCB!
Nice.
Quote from: ugly_guitar_guy on January 25, 2012, 12:43:00 PM
Forgot to add my Echo Base to the mix. Behold, my Echo Burst!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/FxCam_1326407504419.jpg)
I love this pedal. Just need to dial in a resistor value for the dub switch that isn't quite as drastic. I'd prefer the feedback to climb slowly as opposed to taking off like crazy as soon as the switch is stepped on. Thanks for the great PCB!
I wired a 25k trimpot in series with my dub switch and mounted it on the switch body. that way you can dial it in.
Trying to avoid parting from multiple vendors and getting hit with multiple shipping charges.
That said, the 4066.. I found an NTE 4066 locally but I've heard comments about using NTE parts only if the other option was gnawing your arm off at the shoulder.
Is this true? Or should I be ok with this NTE part?
I know this is a bit subjective but, just curious.
Thanks
I really don't know the situation with NTE, but the 4066 is just used for switching, so this is not a very critical application. I think you'll probably be ok with that part.
The 2 mods for humbuckers, (resistors & diode lift).
Do you typically do them at the same time? or try one then the other?
Asking because it seems like it would be simple enough to make a sigle switch (humbucker/single coil) so that I could have optimum EB depending on which guitar I was playing :)
What do you think?
Yes you could do that, personally I wouldn't bother making the resistor mod switchable I'd just use the humbucker values, they are fine for any guitar.
The diode lift is worth putting on a switch, you may find sometimes you want it and sometimes you don't, it's not just a "humbucker mod".
Awesome!
simpler is always best in my book.
Thanks a ton slacker!
One more question.
I've read that the PT2399's vary greatly from chip to chip.. is this your experience and should I order a couple of them?
juste took the board back from the pile of 'not working perfectly' boards, and i solved the issue i had: i had a 100n cap at the place of the 1n cap in the feedback loop of the audio signal and i was surprised to hear a lot of highs sucked out :).
that is solved now, but i have an issue i didn't have before: motor boating (or i think it's that..)
when the effect is powered (on or off, but i guess that's normal, because it's not bypassed anyway), i hear a kind of 'ptppptptptptppttpt' sound, not unlike an old motor.... i guess that was filtered out before by the 100n cap that was placed by mistake.
Is that motor boating? if it is, how can it be solved? is it PT2399 dependent? do i have bad chips?
also i hear distortion on the high notes when i play louder (with a very low output guitar)
Any ideas?
Thanks
Do you hear the motor boating noise regardless of how the delay time is set, or only at long times?
Not to stretch the thread needlessly, but in case anyone is on the fence about ordering the Echo Base PCB, I just finished building it with the 'Clean Kill', 'Dub Madness' and 'Mod Shape (SPDT version)' mods. The board is laid out perfectly, the PDF is great, the PCB itself is very high quality - good materials, very sturdy, easy to solder. It probably took me a week of noodling to put together my first Echo Base; with this PCB it took a few hours. Highly recommended!
Quote from: djaaz on January 23, 2012, 03:20:41 PM
It's not about the battery. It's about the power supply.
I use a well regulated 9V DC supply and i have this hiss.
Tried with another supply unregulated providing 10,2 V: Some hum but no hiss anymore.
Is it safe to try a regulated 12V supply?
Issues (almost) solved. My build is very power supply sensitive but i could find a 9V boss power supply, it's working with without noises.
I'm quite happy with what i have.
Thanks Slacker for all your help and thanks Taylor for the board!
Glad it worked out. :) Have fun with EB.
Hi,
I've just builded my EchoBase, great board !!!!!!!
I've got an issue with the led (a bright yellow one)... the light is really low (I have to put it in the dark to see it)
The LED resistor is a 50k, there is 5V at the input of the resistor and about 1.8V at the output, is it sufficient for a led?
this is my led :
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p3200_LED-3mm-yellow-bright.html
Is my led faulty, or do I need to change the 50k resistor, if yes what would be the right resistor value?
Thanks for your help
Yes, lower the value. If they list the on current for your LED you could figure it out, but I'd just make a guess. You can parallel a smaller resistor value with the current one, so just hold a smaller resistor value to the resistor pads until you find a value with the brightness you prefer. Then pull out the 50k and solder your new one in.
My EB seems to have a ridiculous hum regardless of where the knobs are set. What sort of issue would cause this?
It does this with my Voodoo Lab PP2+ and even worse with a One Spot.
Ground problem? Not having your ground wires all connected, not having ground connected to the box.
Quote from: Taylor on March 08, 2012, 08:37:55 PM
Ground problem? Not having your ground wires all connected, not having ground connected to the box.
I'll double check, but I am pretty sure everything is grounded properly. Is it necessary to ground the output jack?
Yes the output jack need to be grounded. But if you use a metal enclosure and a metal jack, and you have grounded your input, your output will also be grounded without having to add an extra wire.
That's what I'm doing, so it isn't that. :-\
Edit: When I turn my guitar volume down, the hum goes away. It diminishes when I turn the tone down as well.
Just built this and am getting the following:
LED on and stays steady - no flashing
Only clean signal coming out, no effects
Using the clean kill switch I get no signal coming out.
All the soldering looks clean, but I'm not sure where to start troubleshooting.
Important 1st step:
debug (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0)
It might seem like a bogus reply, but it will make your build's trouble-shooting mysteries much easier to solve.
Check with your audio probe to see if you have echoes happening at pin 14 of the pt2399. If you do, then your pedal may be stuck in bypass. That could mean something is weird with your bypass wiring (did you try to leave out the tails switch and just not do anything with those pads?) or something is wrong with the 4066 switching.
Check to make sure you have ~5v at pin 1 of the 2399.
Once you sort out the echo situation, start to figure out why your LFO is not oscillating. Did you add the LFO kill switch? Are those pads connected?
Did you do any other mods that you didn't mention?
Quote from: Taylor on March 08, 2012, 05:02:49 PM
Yes, lower the value. If they list the on current for your LED you could figure it out, but I'd just make a guess. You can parallel a smaller resistor value with the current one, so just hold a smaller resistor value to the resistor pads until you find a value with the brightness you prefer. Then pull out the 50k and solder your new one in.
I haven't got any resistor in stock... I have to buy some.
I've just made a rapid test bypassing the 50k resistor, and the brightness is fine, but the led doesn't blink, probably too much current for it.
I'm considering to buy : 25k, 15k, 1M. Could it be fine or should I have to consider a lower value than 1M (i just don't want to go to my electronic shop every day ;) )?
Thanks for your help
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2012, 12:29:39 AM
Check with your audio probe to see if you have echoes happening at pin 14 of the pt2399. If you do, then your pedal may be stuck in bypass. That could mean something is weird with your bypass wiring (did you try to leave out the tails switch and just not do anything with those pads?) or something is wrong with the 4066 switching.
Check to make sure you have ~5v at pin 1 of the 2399.
Once you sort out the echo situation, start to figure out why your LFO is not oscillating. Did you add the LFO kill switch? Are those pads connected?
Did you do any other mods that you didn't mention?
I powered everything down and restarted.
Then started checking voltages and noticed the led was flashing...
It is working and sounds great.
Quote from: pieca on March 11, 2012, 04:53:23 PM
I haven't got any resistor in stock... I have to buy some.
I've just made a rapid test bypassing the 50k resistor, and the brightness is fine, but the led doesn't blink, probably too much current for it.
I'm considering to buy : 25k, 15k, 1M. Could it be fine or should I have to consider a lower value than 1M (i just don't want to go to my electronic shop every day ;) )?
Thanks for your help
1m is way too big for any regular LED. If you plan to ever build another pedal, I would recommend getting lots of different values of resistors. I don't know where you are in the world or what the prices at your local shop are like, but it's generally possible to get resistors for about one cent (.01USD). So you could get several of all the standard values for the cost of a beer (I'm not a beer drinker, but this seems to be the international unit of "cheap purchase" :) ). This will come in very handy and keep you from having to go to the store every time you need a one cent part.
Quote from: jdahlgren on March 11, 2012, 05:13:49 PM
I powered everything down and restarted.
Then started checking voltages and noticed the led was flashing...
It is working and sounds great.
Great, glad to hear it.
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2012, 05:18:34 PM
1m is way too big for any regular LED.
sorry, it's a typo, I was thinking 1K (1000 ohm)
I'll buy some resistors and will report my result here
I build the echobase on the musicpcb pcb. It is working good except for one thing:
When tails is on everytime i switch the echobase on, there is a tick in the echo. It is not on the dry signal as you hear the tick only when the first echo starts. It does not happen when the tails is off.
Any suggestions?
Marc
Could be a pop from when the CD4066 switches, this would then get fed into the PT2399 so you'd hear it until the first repeats have died away. Measure the voltages on pins 1 and 2 of the CD4066 they should be about 5 volts, if one of them is off, then check/resolder the connections to the 1M5 resistors connected to the pins, probably worth checking the connections to the 47n caps connected to those pins as well.
Hi Ian,
I checked the voltages op pin 1 and 2 and they are both 3.20 volt.
I reflowed the solder joints of both 1M5 and the 47n connected. no difference.
Could it be a fried 4066?
Your voltages look ok, so yeah it could be a bad 4066 might be worth swapping it. Probably worth checking the wiring to the tails switch, a dodgy connection there could cause noise when switching.
Reflowed the tails switch connections. No difference.
I will have to go shop for a new 4066 to try if that solves it. Any other options left?
Thanks for reacting so fast, by the way ;)
I replaced the 4066 and now the tick is gone. So that is solved.
Now I have another problem.
When i connect the power supply the lfo freezes. When I switch the bypass on and off, or the other way around dependinging on how i left it the last time, it starts working again. Power supply is a 1spot 9 volt.
On a battery the lfo locks up and will not work even after switching the bypass on and off.
(edit:) i read in another post that with a battery if voltage is too low the lfo will not work. So that explains that part.
Why does it lock up initially on being powered up by the power supply? Or is it always like that and I just did not notice?
That's a strange one, there shouldn't be any interaction between bypass and the LFO, so I can't think how switching it causes the LFO to start. Could you post the voltages on all pins of both of the opamps and the CD4066 when the LFO is locked up and working.
I did the measurements. I noticed that sometimes when the lfo locks up on connecting power it starts working after a certain time.
These are the readings:
When it is working normally:
Ic1
1=4,98
2=4,95
3=2,49
4=0
5=4,95
6=4,98
7=4,98
8=9,52
ic2
1=3,97-6,05 (varying in between these values)
2=3,42
3=4,98
4=0,59-0,77(varying in between these values)
5=3,32
6=4,90
7=2,29
8=7,05-8,49(varying in between these values)
4066
1=2,85
2=2,85
3=0
4=0
5=0
6=0,79
7=0
8=2,10-2,49(varying in between these values)
9=1,86-1,89(varying in between these values)
10=2,85
11=2,85
12=7,79
13=8,98
14=9,52
and when the lfo is locked:
Ic1
1=4,97
2=4,97
3=2,49
4=0
5=4,96
6=4,97
7=4,97
8=9,51
ic2
1=6,12
2=2,11
3=4,98
4=0,86
5=3,32
6=4,98
7=2,27
8=7,86
4066
1=2,85
2=2,85
3=0
4=0,20
5=0
6=0,84
7=0
8=2,48
9=1,80
10=2,84
11=2,84
12=7,78
13=8,97
14=9,51
any ideas?
What IC are you using? I've found that LFOs don't like certain NE5532 chips I have, and I end up with the symptoms you are referring to.
I just built taylor's Tap Tempo Tremolo recently and it was a great build (in fact, it's the first tremolo to displace my Malekko on my board, which I swore would never budge). I'm planning on the EchoBase being one of my first delay builds and using this PCB.
I had a couple questions about the circuit before I get into it, though:
I have a PT2399 homemade pedal from someone else that I suspect is either the Echobase or based on it (I can't get at the guts without removing all the pots because the board is secured to the PLATE of the pedal) - it has a footswitch dub feature, tails switch, and all the right controls. I really like the sound of the first repeat and then ... splat. Big volume drop off. And turning up the feedback turns into runaway oscillation and volume increases (and another reason I'm pretty sure it's an echobase is because this happens at EXACTLY the same spot in the sweep that I see in demos of the EB).
I'd like to smooth things out so the decay is a little less extreme. I already have delays that can do really clean repeats. So I was thinking of using germanium diodes in an echobase build, even though it would result in distorted repeats*. This would reduce the clipping threshold quite a bit, right? Is there a way to compensate for some lost volume on subsequent repeats? I also plan on taking advantange of some of the mods that increase the time it takes to get runaway volume.
*This might make for an interesting lo-fi type thing, too.
Thanks for the help. :)
Quote from: Barcode80 on March 21, 2012, 04:30:00 PM
What IC are you using? I've found that LFOs don't like certain NE5532 chips I have, and I end up with the symptoms you are referring to.
Tl072cp is what i am using.
Quote from: Marcvv on March 18, 2012, 12:10:57 PM
I did the measurements. I noticed that sometimes when the lfo locks up on connecting power it starts working after a certain time.
These are the readings:
When it is working normally:
Ic1
1=4,98
2=4,95
3=2,49
4=0
5=4,95
6=4,98
7=4,98
8=9,52
ic2
1=3,97-6,05 (varying in between these values)
2=3,42
3=4,98
4=0,59-0,77(varying in between these values)
5=3,32
6=4,90
7=2,29
8=7,05-8,49(varying in between these values)
4066
1=2,85
2=2,85
3=0
4=0
5=0
6=0,79
7=0
8=2,10-2,49(varying in between these values)
9=1,86-1,89(varying in between these values)
10=2,85
11=2,85
12=7,79
13=8,98
14=9,52
and when the lfo is locked:
Ic1
1=4,97
2=4,97
3=2,49
4=0
5=4,96
6=4,97
7=4,97
8=9,51
ic2
1=6,12
2=2,11
3=4,98
4=0,86
5=3,32
6=4,98
7=2,27
8=7,86
4066
1=2,85
2=2,85
3=0
4=0,20
5=0
6=0,84
7=0
8=2,48
9=1,80
10=2,84
11=2,84
12=7,78
13=8,97
14=9,51
any ideas?
A polite bump
I really can't think of a way that the bypass and LFO would interact like that. The only thing I can think is that perhaps for some reason the LFO is not oscillating until the bypass creates some slight imbalance in the ground/power, kicking the oscillation into action? Perhaps a different TL072 would be a solution?
Quote from: Taylor on March 22, 2012, 06:32:44 PM
I really can't think of a way that the bypass and LFO would interact like that. The only thing I can think is that perhaps for some reason the LFO is not oscillating until the bypass creates some slight imbalance in the ground/power, kicking the oscillation into action? Perhaps a different TL072 would be a solution?
Tried different TL072s with the same result. ???
Do you have any mods to the pedal? Are you using the LFO kill switch? Any parts substitutions, for example the transistor in the bypass section?
Quote from: Taylor on March 23, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Do you have any mods to the pedal? Are you using the LFO kill switch? Any parts substitutions, for example the transistor in the bypass section?
No mods, no substitution and no lfo kill switch.
Quick Question here-
I have never built musicpcb boards... but these help forums are somewhat alarmingly long...they are pretty complex pedals though i suppose.
anyways, I just recently finished the D'Lay project from guitarpcb.com (pt2399). I love the tone of the pedal, it sounds very aweseomely analog. But the noise on the repeats of the delay are unacceptable when the delay times get longer--- and not long- around 300ms is unbearable to me- it's just like a static noise that doesnt come in on the dry initial notes, it just comes in for the repeats. so annoying that i will get rid of the pedal if I cannot solve it by upgrading components or trying to mod it.
just wondering if this echo base pedal has similar noise issues with its pt2399 base. I mean I know it's not gonna be crystal strymon clear... This noise that comes in on long delay only on the repeats is driving me nuts though. I cant handle it!!!! anyone have this problem here?
musicpcb looks to be a supremely awesome pcb site... this is the only site i've found where i want to build everything they have... board mounted pots everywhere! woohooO! whoever would have thought a board mounted meat "sphere"?!?!? wow... please give me a board mounted mutron iii too!
The PT2399 is inherently noisy in it's longer repeats 300-500ms or so in my experience. If you want a clean delay, digital is the way to go. That said I was really happy with my Echo Base, pcb was great quality, and I had no build issues. I don't really play super clean anyway so unless I drive my EB really hard I don't notice it.
will tweeking the LED resistor have any adverse effects?
I usually keep my values low to keep LEDs nice and Bright. But then I usually (read always) build true bypass.
I have dropped the 50k to 1k but the modulation has reduced in effect. delay still the same??? have I hit something else I missed in swapping this one out? everything was sweet as prior to the change. the only nearby sensitive component is the 4066 I would think i'd have far greater issues if that was toast.
thanks
Yes making the resistor smaller could reduce the amplitude of the LFO waveform, giving less modulation. You could compensate for this by making the 240k resistor between the LFO and the mod depth pot smaller. I recommend using "super brite", "ultra bright" or whatever LEDS, that way you can keep the resistor big.
The other thing that can happen is making the resistor smaller puts more current through the LED, this can make the flashing less obvious, depending on the LED it might even stop flashing. This could happen without actually affecting the amount of modulation.
Quote from: Marcvv on March 24, 2012, 01:06:47 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 23, 2012, 09:40:24 PM
Do you have any mods to the pedal? Are you using the LFO kill switch? Any parts substitutions, for example the transistor in the bypass section?
No mods, no substitution and no lfo kill switch.
Try temporarily removing the LFO led, and see if that makes it work properly.
hmmm, is there anywhere else to easily shoehorn a bypass indicator LED?
Quote from: claytushaywood on March 29, 2012, 01:15:40 AM
Quick Question here-
I have never built musicpcb boards... but these help forums are somewhat alarmingly long...they are pretty complex pedals though i suppose.
anyways, I just recently finished the D'Lay project from guitarpcb.com (pt2399). I love the tone of the pedal, it sounds very aweseomely analog. But the noise on the repeats of the delay are unacceptable when the delay times get longer--- and not long- around 300ms is unbearable to me- it's just like a static noise that doesnt come in on the dry initial notes, it just comes in for the repeats. so annoying that i will get rid of the pedal if I cannot solve it by upgrading components or trying to mod it.
just wondering if this echo base pedal has similar noise issues with its pt2399 base. I mean I know it's not gonna be crystal strymon clear... This noise that comes in on long delay only on the repeats is driving me nuts though. I cant handle it!!!! anyone have this problem here?
musicpcb looks to be a supremely awesome pcb site... this is the only site i've found where i want to build everything they have... board mounted pots everywhere! woohooO! whoever would have thought a board mounted meat "sphere"?!?!? wow... please give me a board mounted mutron iii too!
Where did your PT2399 come from? I think some of them have been found to be of poor quality compared to others.
Quotewow... please give me a board mounted mutron iii too!
Check madbean pedals in the coming months ;)
Quote from: snarblinge on April 01, 2012, 04:20:22 AM
hmmm, is there anywhere else to easily shoehorn a bypass indicator LED?
If you don't need it to flash with the LFO, then you can just wire an unused pole of your bypass switch (if you're using a DPDT or 3PDT - which most people will since you'd have to go out of your way to just get a SPST stomp switch) to light the LED as you would with a true bypass effect.
From memory ( a mate of mine has the pedal) I'm using a dpdt to incorperate the clean kill, may have to swap it out to a 3pdt, but was trying to avoid that. might pop a trimmer in there and find a sweet spot between brightness and effect. LED could do with an updrage also. everything else is working sweet as, great pedal.
EDIT** problem sorted
Well I just built my pcb, stock, no mods, and I'm debating on modding the hell out of it, or keeping it standard. Quite a decision, because they layout of my case will depend on how may pots and switches I'm adding.
I want to try to get his right the first time, so I have a few questions I hope are not redundant, I read most of the thread(hopefully I did not miss anything)
- Is there any tone sucking without true bypass? I'm seriously considering setting mine up true bypass. Hard-wiring tails on, and using the on/off switch as a second stomp, so I can have true bypass and then tails(when not in true bypass) Is it worth the trouble? True bypass is religion to some people, all my pedals are true bypass, but I'm no zealot, if this pedal does not suck tone, I don't need to do it.
- Is the humbucker mod required for all humbuckers or just really hot ones? I have guitars with both single coil and humbuckers, I'm not sure if I need the mod or not
- What is the affect of the humbucker mod? I imagine if there was no negative affect, it would not be a mod, just part of the standard build
- The LFO waveshape mod seems really cool, is it that noticeable? worthwhile?
Also thanks for such a slick board, I got mine soldered up in like 2 hours... just waiting for shipment #2 with the remaining parts... I'm pretty pumped about my echo base.
I'm gonna answer to your questions based on my experience with my echo base.
I never noticed any tone sucking with the bypass of this pedal so I don't think that it's worth it to make it true bypass.
To me the humbucker mod is useless. I don't hear any difference when I turn it on/off, even with hot pickups. But others may have a different opinion on that.
The LFO waveshape is noticeable so yes it is worth it if you like to have one more parameter that you can tweak.
Some other mods that you have not mentionned but that I found really useful are a dry signal kill switch, an effect loop, and the "dub madness" mod on a momentary footswitch.
Quote from: aballen on April 07, 2012, 10:10:17 AM
- Is the humbucker mod required for all humbuckers or just really hot ones? I have guitars with both single coil and humbuckers, I'm not sure if I need the mod or not
If you set it to give you say 3 or 4 repeats and notice a nasty distortion on the repeats with humbuckers then do the humbucker mod and or the diode lift mod, if it sounds fine to you with your guitars then there's no need to do it. The humbucker mod just reduces the volume of the signal going through the PT2399, the only negative to this is you have to turn the level and feedback pots up more to get the same sounds as without the mod.
I don't think it tone sucks, but I don't think Boss pedals do either, some people swear they do. The only way to tell is to use your ears, if you can hear it tone sucking then it might be worth true bypassing it, if you can't then don't worry about it :)
Quote from: StereoKills on March 29, 2012, 08:36:26 AM
The PT2399 is inherently noisy in it's longer repeats 300-500ms or so in my experience. If you want a clean delay, digital is the way to go. That said I was really happy with my Echo Base, pcb was great quality, and I had no build issues. I don't really play super clean anyway so unless I drive my EB really hard I don't notice it.
haha.... the pt2399 IS digital... maybe i shouldnt have quoted you on this, but anyways i've had analog delays with MUCH less noise
The demoes I've heard of this pedal definitely dont show the noise that I have experienced with the guitarpcb D'Lay. It seems there's quite a few PT2399 circuits that aren't obnoxiously noisy like guitarpcb's. There was another guy on the forum that had the same problem as me (as soon as I posted on the same topic we got edited by big brother barry) I've played the CMAT MODS delay that I am pretty positive (from memory) is based of a pt2399, and it wasnt nearly as bad as guitarpcb.com's delay project.
The noise from my dlay would easily show up in the type of audio demos (delay time, playing, repeats) done on musicpcb's site. I mean it's obnoxious... I play vintage style single coils through a bunch of pedals on a cranked old fender, I'm familiar with all types of noisey pedals. Guitarpcb's D'Lay is absolutely the most obnoxious noisy pedal I've ever dealt with in my life. I mean it's not noisier than like a high gain fuzz, but then its not as loud and it doesnt get covered up by playing. it comes through when listening to repeats. i tried 3 different pt2399's from three different sources, all had the same noise. I think it's just a bad design. I wouldnt care if they didnt advertise it as getting "too lo fi for some after 700ms", but again all they do over their is testimonials. So I'm thinking it's the circuit.
Is anyone else out there completely annoyed by the noise on the repeats of the delay? I think it could be filtered out... i read about a mod here briefly a while ago, something about sending less signal to the PT2399? maybe even putting a filter on the repeats to filter out the high pitched noise on the repeats?
Yes, if you change the cutoff of the filtering you can definitely filter the noise better, but you would probably get better answers by starting a new thread rather than posting about a different circuit within this thread. It could easily get confusing as to what everyone is talking about.
Also, I once tried to help somebody with a board made by somebody else, and it started a huge war and I got called some nasty names just for trying to help somebody. :icon_sad: So for diplomacy's sake I must recuse myself I'm afraid. But if you start a new thread and link to the circuit you're talking about, I'm positive you will get some good suggestions.
Quote from: claytushaywood on April 09, 2012, 12:20:58 AM
Is anyone else out there completely annoyed by the noise on the repeats of the delay?
To be honnest, not at all. Of course it's not as clean as a commercial digital delay but many people see this as a "feature" of the EchoBase.
But maybe for some reasons mine isn't as noisy as yours. Can you record some sound samples so we could hear what kind of noise you are talking about?
Edit: I've just realised that I mixed up guitarpcb with musicpcb, so maybe there is a problem with the delay from guitarpcb. I never tried it so I cannot tell.
So there is no tone sucking, but it adds noise?
Sounds like a good case for true bypass to me. If the circuit is noisy, then it must add noise even when turned off correct?
Just looking for more info, as I wait for my last few parts to come in.
The repeats might get a little bit noisy but there is no added noise when the effect is bypassed, even if it's not true bypass.
Quote from: aballen on April 09, 2012, 09:54:14 AM
Sounds like a good case for true bypass to me. If the circuit is noisy, then it must add noise even when turned off correct?
No, like Vince said, any noise being talked about here is on the delayed sound only, the dry sound and therefore the bypassed sound is unaffected. In bypass mode the delayed signal is cut so you don't hear any noise that might be coming from it.
Best thing to do is build the pedal stock and live with it for a while, then if there's things you don't like you can look at modding it.
claytushaywood is talking about problems he's having with a completely different pedal.
I'm doing the diode lift mod right away, that should help with a cleaner signal right?
also the added waveshape mod, and the dub madness will go on a momentary.... humbucker mod will only happen if I need it.
Well, that was a damn fine PCB... my pedal seems to work well. this pedal with all the mods would have been a lot tougher without the PCB.
I have to spend some more time with it, and I have a few questions. Trying to get a better feel for what each knob/switch does, so I'm going to recap what I've observed... but I'm looking for corrections.
- Level - This is the volume knob
- Feedback - This is the number of repeats, adjust from one, to infinite... and even all the way to the right to create feedback
- Time - This is the space between the repeats
- Depth - This alters the pitch
- Speed - This alters the speed of the pitch changes
- LFO Waveshape mod - should affect the shape of the pitch changes on the LFO - Can anyone offer up some good settings for this? I'm not sure I hear it.
- LFO kill switch - simply disables the two LFO pots, does it disable the LFO mod as well? (I"m thinking yes)
- Clean kill switch - mutes your guitar, but allows the repeats to sound
- Diode lift switch - should clean up the signal, if it is too dirty when using humbuckers - I don't seem to have the problem so I'm not discerning any effect from this switch... but since its switchable, I figured I would do it right away, I skipped the resistor change, since that is permanent.
- Tails switch - The most badass of all imho, allows you to switch off the pedal, but the repeats will finish
- Dub Madness - well this is just a crazy feedback/distortion button... Seems a lot like turning the feedback/repeats knob to 11
I've noticed with the LFO, I can get a very leslie tremolo sound going. Some have said chorus, what settings create a chorus sound?
What kind of battery life can I expect with this pedal?
Oh and some pics of course. I'll post again once I figure out what knobs I'll be using, and paint it up. This is definitely my favorite DIY pedal yet!!!
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Snapbucket/663455C0.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Snapbucket/78D9EEC4.jpg)
I get a light chorusy sound with the depth pot low (8-9 o'clock) and the rate pot high (3-4 o'clock)
Looks great. Your descriptions are pretty much correct. The LFO kill switch stops the LFO so yes it disables the LFO mod. The waveshape gives a triangle wave at one extreme and square at the other. If you set the depth quite high you should be able to hear what it does. On the triangle side you should hear smooth changes in pitch, if you set the delay time very short it should sound like vibrato. On the square side it should sound like it's jumping between pitches instead of moving smoothly.
The dubmadness does exactly what you said it puts the feedback on maximum. This is probably most useful as momentary stomp switch, then you can punch the madness in and out.
To get a chorus sound set the delay short almost on zero. Turn level up most of the way up, feedback on zero. Then adjust speed and depth to taste.
Awesome pedal slacker... I was thinking about a PT-80... but this one is just sooo cool. I'm glad I chose this one.
I wonder if I will find something wrong the more I play with it. I'm kind of amazed I got it, and all the mods working on my first try.
Quote from: aballen on April 20, 2012, 11:53:13 AM
Well, that was a damn fine PCB... my pedal seems to work well. this pedal with all the mods would have been a lot tougher without the PCB.
I have to spend some more time with it, and I have a few questions. Trying to get a better feel for what each knob/switch does, so I'm going to recap what I've observed... but I'm looking for corrections.
- Level - This is the volume knob
- Feedback - This is the number of repeats, adjust from one, to infinite... and even all the way to the right to create feedback
- Time - This is the space between the repeats
- Depth - This alters the pitch
- Speed - This alters the speed of the pitch changes
- LFO Waveshape mod - should affect the shape of the pitch changes on the LFO - Can anyone offer up some good settings for this? I'm not sure I hear it.
- LFO kill switch - simply disables the two LFO pots, does it disable the LFO mod as well? (I"m thinking yes)
- Clean kill switch - mutes your guitar, but allows the repeats to sound
- Diode lift switch - should clean up the signal, if it is too dirty when using humbuckers - I don't seem to have the problem so I'm not discerning any effect from this switch... but since its switchable, I figured I would do it right away, I skipped the resistor change, since that is permanent.
- Tails switch - The most badass of all imho, allows you to switch off the pedal, but the repeats will finish
- Dub Madness - well this is just a crazy feedback/distortion button... Seems a lot like turning the feedback/repeats knob to 11
I've noticed with the LFO, I can get a very leslie tremolo sound going. Some have said chorus, what settings create a chorus sound?
What kind of battery life can I expect with this pedal?
Oh and some pics of course. I'll post again once I figure out what knobs I'll be using, and paint it up. This is definitely my favorite DIY pedal yet!!!
Beautiful looking build. Do you have any pics of the inside?
Yeah, I'' try to post them when I get home... its not bad, but I would not call it tidy.... all the mods were a bit of an afterthought.... I had to use some dpdts where I only needed spdts... and it is tight in there.
There you go. Not bad, but you can tell the mods were an afterthought.
Awesome PCB.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/bitracer/Snapbucket/0D389C64.jpg)
Nice build! I bet it was tricky getting all of that into a BB box.
That it was, but I'll tell you it is an awesome pedal. Well worth the trouble.
I really wish I was better at case design, a pedal this cool should look badass too. I'll do what I can to label it up... (its real function is audio not visual)
where did you get all blue box cap? I'm trying to colour coordinate my latest build of this. nice layout BTW
Got them here
http://www.mouser.com/EPCOS/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/Polyester-Film-Capacitors/_/N-5g7wZ1z13ya8Zscv7?Ns=Pricing|0 (http://www.mouser.com/EPCOS/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/Polyester-Film-Capacitors/_/N-5g7wZ1z13ya8Zscv7?Ns=Pricing%7C0)
if you are lookign to color coordinate you can get red ones here
http://www.mouser.com/WIMA/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/Polyester-Film-Capacitors/_/N-5g7wZ1z0zldhZscv7?Keyword=polyester+film+capacitors&FS=True (http://www.mouser.com/WIMA/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/Polyester-Film-Capacitors/_/N-5g7wZ1z0zldhZscv7?Keyword=polyester+film+capacitors&FS=True)
Anyone confused by my previous posts- Let me clarify- anything I was saying about the sound of a delay pedal was me referencing guitarpcb's D'Lay circuit... all the stuff about the noise on the repeats was about that circuit NOT the echobase. I recently built a clone of the mad professor deep blue delay and it sounds awesome (it's based on the pt2399 chip too)! found that NOT ALL pt2399 delays have annoying hiss on the repeats!!! the guitarpcb circuit is just crap. and the echobase is probably much better, like the mad professor... but with more cool controls...
on another note--
are there any mods for darkening the repeats on the echobase? I'd like to have switchable darkened, cave like repeats...
You might want to check out the cave dweller over at mad beans
Quote from: aballen on May 15, 2012, 08:33:59 PM
You might want to check out the cave dweller over at mad beans
+1, it's awesome and even fits in a 1590A!
Quote from: midwayfair on May 15, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
Quote from: aballen on May 15, 2012, 08:33:59 PM
You might want to check out the cave dweller over at mad beans
+1, it's awesome and even fits in a 1590A!
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=96077.0
Quote from: claytushaywood on May 15, 2012, 07:58:34 PM
on another note--
are there any mods for darkening the repeats on the echobase? I'd like to have switchable darkened, cave like repeats...
You can make the 15n cap between pin 14 of the PT2399 and the feedback pot bigger for a darker sound. You could make that switchable or use a bigger cap with a pot in series to ground, like a guitar tone control if you want a tone knob. You can also make that cap smaller for a brighter sound but you run the risk of noise at longer delay times.
Is there any chance somebody could explain how to change the Modulation toggle into a footswitch with LED? Taylor mentioned it in the first post, but I never saw a diagram for it after.
Thanks!
instead of the toggle, use a footswitch, but one with an additional set of poles, use these additional set to switch an LED on and off. much the same as running an effect with no LED and using a DPDT instead of using an LED and using a 3PDT. for more go here http://beavisaudio.com/techpages/Switches/ (http://beavisaudio.com/techpages/Switches/) beavis is awesome
You don't need a separate led for the modulation switch. The main led flashes when the modulation is on and just acts like a normal bypass led when it's off, so that gives a visual indication already.
hi, the pnp transistor for the lfo, does it need to be the one specified or can it be any standard pnp transistor??
Any PNP should work, people have sucessfully used 2N3906 which should be easy to find anywhere.
Finally finished mine up. Thought I would post some pics. Taylors PCBs are fantastic as usual.
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8584/img0580pll.jpg)
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6324/img0583cb.jpg)
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7735/img0582ff.jpg)
Cool, the cloth wrap looks great. :)
Okay, heres a weird one... I want to trick this thing out and I need some help implementing an idea. I have a buddha machine on the way :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUDDHA-MACHINE-III-CLEAR-DRONE-BOX-FM3-SUNN-0-/320921488125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab8694afd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUDDHA-MACHINE-III-CLEAR-DRONE-BOX-FM3-SUNN-0-/320921488125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab8694afd)
It is a drone generator with meditative sounds recorded on a chip. AFAIK the box itself has two controls : Play and Pitch. I want to take the board from this box and have it wired to play the loops through the effect. I'm thinking a parallel set of switches, a latching and momentary so you can either stomp it and just have the drone play continuously or hold the momentary for a bit of drone here and there. I guess it would also be desirable to have a toggle to select whether the drone plays through the delay or just goes straight through. The pitch control stays, I'm going to side mount the pot with a big knob so you can adjust it with your foot. Also the drone will need its own volume, that should be the easy part.
Anyways, thats my idea. It is an incredibly specific to the request of the guitar player in my band, he will create droning loops with his boss delay but it takes a bit to get something interesting going. We started playing with the Buddha Machine app on iphone and came up with the idea to have some way to really integrate a drone generator to the pedal chain. We had a few drinks
Hey guys, I know this has been asked before in the other Echo Base thread, but I haven't found any info regarding adding the effects loops to the circuit when using this PCB.
I want to add two loops, each with individual send/returns. The ones I'm aiming for are "A" and "B" as seen here: http://i.imgur.com/XXFXY.png
The PCB itself doesn't support option "C" without still having to make some buffers, right?
I've got the funky jacks with shunt switches, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where physically to put the connections for send and return ::)
Uh, so for example, for loop "A", where one end of the 100n cap connects to the middle lug of the LEVEL pot...would I run the SEND wire to that leg of the 100n, and the RETURN wire to the middle lug of the pot...?
And then loop "B" would be running the SEND wire to the 20k resistor and RETURN to the middle lug of the FEEDBACK pot?
Maybe I got that wrong.
To make it even more complicated, is it even possible to have both loops in addition to the clean signal kill and dub madness mods from the PCB documentation? I can't seem to wrap my head around making that work since they move the components.
(also, I swear that I read about adding a tone pot to this circuit, but no matter how I search it doesn't seem to show up)
Anyway, thanks in advance.
Quote from: Achtane on June 29, 2012, 11:58:56 PMUh, so for example, for loop "A", where one end of the 100n cap connects to the middle lug of the LEVEL pot...would I run the SEND wire to that leg of the 100n, and the RETURN wire to the middle lug of the pot...?
No, you'd want to do it the other way around. The wiper of the Level pot can be considered the output of the delay path, so this loop would be giving your echoes whatever effect is in the loop, but it won't stack up more and more of the effect with each echo.
QuoteAnd then loop "B" would be running the SEND wire to the 20k resistor and RETURN to the middle lug of the FEEDBACK pot?
Maybe I got that wrong.
No, the other way again.
QuoteTo make it even more complicated, is it even possible to have both loops in addition to the clean signal kill and dub madness mods from the PCB documentation? I can't seem to wrap my head around making that work since they move the components.
(also, I swear that I read about adding a tone pot to this circuit, but no matter how I search it doesn't seem to show up)
Anyway, thanks in advance.
There's no reason that that all couldn't be possible, but if you're just starting out with DIY effects (don't know if you're new to the hobby or just to the forum - welcome, by the way) I always worry when people try too many mods when they haven't built many effects before. Mods are not complicated on their own, but the more of them you do, and the more you step off the documented trail, things get complicated quickly, and building something well-documented is tricky enough when you're still getting used to good solder joints and wiring practices. My first project was too complicated for me, and I added mods on top of that. The frustration of getting it built put me off the hobby for years.
My advice would be to cut back on the mods, get it working, and then evaluate whether you still feel you need those particular mods now that you've heard it and used it in your music. Once you've got the pedal working, adding those mods will be easy if you decide you still want to.
Ahh okay, thanks for the reply (and welcome). I think you're right -- just get the pedal going first. I've only built a few, but with those and other projects I have a tendency to bite off a little more than I can chew.
So I'll just make the not-so-modified Echo Base first and see what happens.
My echo base is sick. I'm not sure where to start looking though.
Here are the symptoms:
- The repeats have a very mild "fizz" quality almost as background noise to the main repeat sound (the diode lift switch does not affect this at all).
- The LFO when engaged will speed up until the pot is turned to 12:00 then slows back down again as you continue on over to full on (it used to work fine).
- There is background noise when by-passed & tails engaged (almost like the computer sounds from old 80's movies)*
- Echo's can be heard when the pedal is by-passed *
* these are noticeable when the amp gains are up.
So for the most part the pedal is working.. it's just flaked out on me.
Any hints where to start poking around?
i have a very nice smooth blingking led by adding two transistor trimmer and three resistor
the trimmer is control the amount of light you want
Im thingking this is good mod for tremolo using led + ldr i just need a little help hooking up the ldr
where in a good place.
You could try the LDR in parallel with the 10k resistor in the feedback loop of the output mixer opamp. That will give a trem that gets quieter as the LED gets brighter.
thanks Ian, I try when i get home and see what it goes.
finish echo base for my friend.
(http://s19.postimage.org/wrbp2r98j/IMG_1033_1.jpg)
Very nice, what does Room/Hall do?
Quote from: slacker on July 31, 2012, 01:38:31 PM
Very nice, what does Room/Hall do?
the room is i can turn the repeat contol fully clockwise with a nice room sound
and the hall is just about haftway turn and its double the sound
basicly i add another cap to pin 9 and 10 of pt2399 with switch so ican turn on and off
it does give boost or hall sound.
I cant find a 50k resistor, would using a 51k resistor be ok?
Yeah, absolutely fine, the 50K is only for the LED so it's not critical. Depending on your LED you might want a different value anyway.
Hi, i've just built the echobase and the delay itself sounds really nice, and the tails function is the best but, i have no modulation at all...
the led is on but it doesn't flash with the lfo, and when i turn off the LFO the led is brighter, but still no modulation...
when i turn the depth and waveshape knob the delay time changes, but the speed knob does nothing...
i've read all this thread, tried changing the tl072, 4066 and bc560, reflowed some solder joints but without any luck, so if someone have some sugestions firem up.
Thanks
The far right of the board is where the LFO is, and it sounds like your oscillator is not oscillating. Check to make sure that the LFO SW pads are not shorted to each other or anything else, and post the voltages from the pins of the rightmost TL072 if you can.
also check you power source, flattish batteries will cause the same, I had this, and don't reccomend batteries for this build.
i've took out the lfo sw and it still doesn't oscilate, and i'm using a 9v power supply, not a batery. when i get a new multimeter i'll post the voltages, cause my old one broke a few days ago, but in the meantime i'll keep trying to see if i could find the problem because this pedal is to good to be wasted like that, even the delay by itself is great....
today i even bought a new 1M speed pot thinking that the other one was broken but no.....it's strange that even with a super bright led i only get a little bit of light, almost can't see it......damm
thanks for the replys anyway
Edit: i've tried to short between the depth knob and the tl072 with a led and i get oscilation in pin 7, so the oscilator is working but not modulating the delayed dignal....f#@k
Quote from: aballen on May 15, 2012, 08:33:59 PM
You might want to check out the cave dweller over at mad beans
completely different style delay... ive done some research and trial and error and have found that just putting one cap on a switch with 2 other values (3 way toggle) you can get three very useable levels of darkness on the delay repeats- havent tried this on the echo base but it uses the same capacitor off the pt2399- the mad professor deep blue delay actually uses a 15n cap (i believe it's like pins 13 and 14... probably wrong-cant remember exactly) but the DBD has very netural sounding repeats that are interesting- I like 37n and 62n as darker settings
Has anyone figured out how to add an effects loop to the echo base? that would be ultimate!
I was also curious about adding diodes to the repeats knob to prevent self oscillation from getting super loud- I beleive the skreddy echo has something like this. if you put some diodes across maybe the effect level or the repeats pot when you crank the repeats pot you will get all the oscillation goodness but it wont get super loud... and you can leave it going to get an awesome wash of delay- I love that feature of the skreddy
anyone point me in the right direction?
Quote from: claytushaywood on August 16, 2012, 11:03:11 PM
Has anyone figured out how to add an effects loop to the echo base? that would be ultimate!
There' s various way's to do it, depending on what you want, here's a schematic with 3 different places to try http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/echobasenotes.png (http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/echobasenotes.png)
A. The first repeat and all subsequent ones are affected, but each repeat only goes thorough the pedal in the loop once so subsequent repeats don't get more and more affected.
B. The first repeat is clean but every subsequent repeat goes through the pedal in the loop, so the repeats get more and more affected.
C. The first repeat is affected by the pedal in the loop and every subsequent repeat goes through the pedal in the loop, so the repeats get more and more affected. To add the loop here you would need to add buffers before and the FX loop and maybe move the 20k resistor and 4n7 capacitor to after the Loop.
Quote
I was also curious about adding diodes to the repeats knob to prevent self oscillation from getting super loud-
Already has this.
So I've built an Echobase but it doesn't work :icon_redface:
I'm only really concerned with troubleshooting the delay part of this as the LFO section was never a priority, if I can get the delays going I'll be happy... I've already tried resoldering a few of the connections around the troublesome pots but here is what I'm facing:
With Level at maximum the delay volume is still pretty quiet, this may be related to the other problem though:
The feedback knob at maximum only produces 4 audible delays. No self-oscillation.
The only different parts I used were a BC109 instead of the 2N5089 and a 2n3906 instead of the BC560, and an a100k pot for time instead of b50k (I like long grungy delays though, which is what I thought I'd get with this pot substitution).
Any help?! Thanks in advance.
Is the dry signal OK? It should be the same volume as plugging your guitar straight into your amp. If it is but the delayed sound is quiet then the problem is probably to do with the resistors connected to pins 13, 14, 15 and 16 of the PT2399, check their values carefully, and make sure you haven't accidentally switched any of the 10k and 47k resistors. Also check for blobs of solder or anything else that might be shorting the signal to ground.
The feedback problem will probably go away once you have the volume problem sorted out so I wouldn't worry about that for now.
Your part substitutions will be fine.
hi !
do you know where i can get a PCB (or two... yes, definitively 2 would be better) of Echo Base ?
i wrote to musicPCB (unavailable till 08/22 ... and we are 09/03), but yet no answer.
Thanks in advance for your answer .
Hi Shoud, I do have the PCBs, however where I live, we were just hit by a big, slow hurricane, so my workshop does not have power, and there's no mail or shipping service right now in the city. I should be back up and running this week and I will put the PCBs back on the site and be ready to ship boards out.
:icon_sad:
hope everything is fine for you, and your shop ...
we're lucky in europe, we don't have hurricanes.
i'll check the website :)
Thanks for the kind words - everything's fine, just a little wet! We're pretty used to hurricanes here so while it is an inconvenience, we'll make it through just fine. But I might just try to move to Europe one of these days! :D
Hi, some quick, stupid newbie ( :-[) questions about the pots to be used for the EBase:
In the BOM, I guess the A in A110K is for "Alpha", the "B" (B50K) for "Bourns"?
Also, should the pots be log or lin? My gut feeling says probably log for all?
Thanks :)
"A" - audio or log pots
"B" - linear pots
"C" - reverse log pots
So A110K (really 110K not 100K? ) is log 100k pot, B50K is linear 50K pot.
Quote from: lespos on December 13, 2012, 06:59:09 AM
"A" - audio or log pots
"B" - linear pots
"C" - reverse log pots
So A110K (really 110K not 100K? ) is log 100k pot, B50K is linear 50K pot.
Ah, thanks. Makes sense :).
And yes, 100k of course. Bad typo ;).
I've got a near-complete build but before I finish I wonder how you would wire a LED to pulse with the delay time, whether or not the pedal is bypassed. Any thoughts?
thanks, Tom
To do it you'll need some extra logic chips. IIRC you have to divide the clock signal down by some arbitrary number. Somebody posted a layout to do this long ago in the main Echo Base thread, but unfortunately it would be tough to find. I would try using google like so
clock divide "echo base" site:diystompboxes.com
OK thanks for the info. I'm not going to pursue it, thought it may be simpler.
So part of the reason I ask is because I'm attempting to re-purpose an already drilled enclosure and I'm left with one open hole. Maybe I could have one LED for pedal engaged and use another LED to pulse when the LFO is engaged? Is there a way to wire this?
Awesome board by the way and I love the pedal. Will post pictures when i have it all painted.
Maybe i just can't find it in this thread, but I have an issue with the feedback switch.
I have mine wired to a momentary (of course) and am getting some strange behavior. When I have the switch mounted in the box, I get signal passthrough, but no delay. Removing it from the box and the delay works as it should, and so does the switch. Is it fair to assume that I'm grounding out the delay signal somehow?
Pedal sounds great otherwise. Any thoughts?
That's a strange one but it does sound like something is grounding the delayed signal. Check that the wires to the switch are not somehow touching the case or the metal body of the switch, as this will ground them when its bolted to the case.
slacker, thanks for the suggestion. i went over all my offboard wiring in detail, redid a few spots, and still the same issue.
as cool as that function is, i love how the box sounds so i just decided to take it out. only issue is that now i have a hole in my enclosure. however, i was going to do a light plate at the bottom, and instead decided i'll put an amp jewel in the hole where the switch was going to go. lemons, meet lemonade :)
Hey Taylor
I've finished an echo base pcb with the wave shape mod.
The modulation switches on fine and the depth and speed work but the wave shape pot has no effect.
Any ideas what to check?
Thanks
The modulation comes out of the waveshape pot so if it's doing nothing I guess you must have one lug of the pot unsoldered?
The modulation works.
It doesn't change when I change the pot.
The pot doesn't seem to change anything
What does the modulation sound like? If you set the delay time very short does it sweep smoothly up and down in pitch, like vibrato, or jump between pitches.
What Taylor said is the most likely thing, one end of the waveshape pot either isn't connected or connected to the wrong place.
It jumps between a hi and a low pitch.
From Taylor's documentation, disconnect the red wire from the wave shape pot, that removes the square modulation. If you then get no modulation it means you have a bad connection on the blue wire, or a bad pot. If the modulation still jumps check the value of the 240k resistor, if it was too small it could be causing the problem.
Ok great
I'll be home to check in a bit
Thanks
Is the 3rd hole of lfo speed still connected to the 1meg pot and the wave shape pot?
So it would be to the 3rd leg of the speed pot and also the first leg of the wave shape pot?
Or should the 3rd pad only go to the wave shape pot?
I've got a wire going to both.
Yes, hole 3 should be connected to the LFO speed pot and the wave shape pot.
Would it be ok to substitute a 51k resistor for the 50 k resistor or would it change the sound?
Thanks
Won't be a problem use the 51
That's the one for the LED isn't it, if so, the 50k is just a guide so 51k is fine.
Depending on what LED you use and how bright you want it you might need a completely different value.
I know this is quite an old build but I've just made it from the pcb, including the humbucker resistor mod, the diode mod, the tails switch, a footswitch for LFO the waveshape mod and the runaway feedback mod.
Now my problems are that
a) the pedal boosts my signal a lot, the overall level is louder than the guitar plugged in without it, whether in bypass or not
and
b) my repeats or feedback is only a single repeat. Just one. The pot doesn't seem to do anything except when I flick the runaway feedback switch which does engage infinite repeats and the pot act in reverse, even though it's wired correctly. From the wiring guide on page 1 of this thread.
I've switched the pt2399 but that's not the issue.
Anyone have any ideas?
Okay I solved the single repeat problem and have been able to retain the runaway repeats mod. I removed the diode lift mod along the way and don't notice any real difference.
But I do still have quite a large volume increase both in bypass and engaged modes.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Check to make sure the three 10k resistors connected to pin 2 of the top left opamp are really 10k. If one of those was the wrong value that could cause a volume boost. Check the soldering on those as well, a bad connection could also cause it.
How do you think, is there a way to add LFO in to the circuit?
Quote from: telebiker on May 27, 2013, 10:09:15 AM
How do you think, is there a way to add LFO in to the circuit?
There is a LFO already; it's used to modulate the pitch of the repeats. Did you want to add something else?
If you want to feed in an external LFO then disconnect the clockwise lug of the mod depth pot and connect your external LFO there, depending on what voltage your LFO puts out you may need a resistor in series with the pot, same as the 240k in the schematic.
garcho, I'm talking about external LFO to manipulate the effect :)
slacker, thank you!
Quote from: slacker on May 23, 2013, 12:37:35 PM
Check to make sure the three 10k resistors connected to pin 2 of the top left opamp are really 10k. If one of those was the wrong value that could cause a volume boost. Check the soldering on those as well, a bad connection could also cause it.
Thanks slacker. I used carbon film resistors for all 10k
and 20k slots just to change it up but their tolerance wasn't as great. I might replace those three.
Thanks
tried replacing the three 10k's off the TL072 to no avail.
The signal just overdrives if I play hard. This is without anything before the echo base. I played a gig the other night and ran a cs-3 into it at a lower gain and it was fine but it's just too hot. I don't know enough about the circuit to know where to "lower the gain". Would that mean increasing the resistance?
Maybe before the first opamp?
Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks
Strange one, the bypass signal shouldn't have any gain the output should be the same level as the input. The first opamp stage is just a buffer, no gain, the second stage with equal value resistors, the 10ks also has no gain.
The only way it can have any gain is if the resistor in the feedback loop of the second opamp is bigger than the resistor from the first stage, if you've checked these are definitely 10k then I'm not sure what's going on.
I would maybe try audio probing the circuit and see where the volume increase happens.
Cool, I'll try that. Probably should've tried that first, but anyhow.
When I first assembled the pedal I had the diode lift mod included and I removed it while trouble shooting some initial problems, would a dead diode effect the sound/be causing the distortion?
A problem with the clipping diodes would only affect the delayed signal.
If you want to make sure the problem isn't being caused by anything on the delayed signal path pull the CD4066 and the PT2399, this leaves just the dry signal path.
Voltages on all the opamp pins might help, the one top left on the board.
Quote from: slacker on August 20, 2012, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: claytushaywood on August 16, 2012, 11:03:11 PM
Has anyone figured out how to add an effects loop to the echo base? that would be ultimate!
There' s various way's to do it, depending on what you want, here's a schematic with 3 different places to try http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/echobasenotes.png (http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/echobasenotes.png)
A. The first repeat and all subsequent ones are affected, but each repeat only goes thorough the pedal in the loop once so subsequent repeats don't get more and more affected.
B. The first repeat is clean but every subsequent repeat goes through the pedal in the loop, so the repeats get more and more affected.
C. The first repeat is affected by the pedal in the loop and every subsequent repeat goes through the pedal in the loop, so the repeats get more and more affected. To add the loop here you would need to add buffers before and the FX loop and maybe move the 20k resistor and 4n7 capacitor to after the Loop.
Quote
I was also curious about adding diodes to the repeats knob to prevent self oscillation from getting super loud-
Already has this.
Does anyone still have this? Or slacker, do you have it still? Link is down. :(
EDIT: LOL found it in my hard drive, after a bit of searching. here it is for anyone else who wants it.
(http://i.imgur.com/kUka7IA.png)
Quote from: slacker on June 04, 2013, 03:33:00 AM
A problem with the clipping diodes would only affect the delayed signal.
If you want to make sure the problem isn't being caused by anything on the delayed signal path pull the CD4066 and the PT2399, this leaves just the dry signal path.
Voltages on all the opamp pins might help, the one top left on the board.
Will get around to this asap. i was just inside the echo base before I got on here and I'd removed the clipping diodes which has cleaned up the signal somewhat, but I'll pull the two chips tomorrow and see what the go is.
On the build pdf it recommends swapping two 47k resistors to 22k for humbuckers which I did. But how does less resistance create a cleaner signal for a hotter signal? Or does the resistance create distortion somehow?
Quote from: slacker on June 04, 2013, 03:33:00 AM
A problem with the clipping diodes would only affect the delayed signal.
If you want to make sure the problem isn't being caused by anything on the delayed signal path pull the CD4066 and the PT2399, this leaves just the dry signal path.
Voltages on all the opamp pins might help, the one top left on the board.
I took out the chips as you suggested and the pedal still retains a fuzz when I play harder.
I tested voltages on the pins by placing the grounding lead of my DDM to ground on the circuit and the red lead to the pin
The TL072 on the left of the board
1 - 5.02
2 - 5.02
3 - 2.5
4 - 0
5 - 5
6 - 4.98
7 - 5.02
8 - 9.2
The one on the right reads
1 - 5.02
2 - 5.02
3 - 5.01
4 - 0.8
5 - 2.81
6 - 5.01
7 - 2.23
8 - 8.35
I hope this can shed some light on my problem.
Quote from: tombaker on June 08, 2013, 05:53:23 AM
On the build pdf it recommends swapping two 47k resistors to 22k for humbuckers which I did. But how does less resistance create a cleaner signal for a hotter signal?
The gain of the PT2399 stages is roughly set by the ratio of the 47k resistors and the input resistors for that stage, if you look at the schematic azrael posted above for the first PT2399 stage (pins 16 and 15) the input resistor is the 20k to the right of "C" this give a gain of about 2 47/20.
For the other stage (pins 13 and 14) the input resistor is the 10k off pin 12 giving a gain of about 5 47/10. This give a total gain of about 10 which will cause hot signals to distort the PT2399. Changing the 47ks to 22ks reduces the gain to about 1 for the first stage and about 2 for the second stage, giving a total gain of about 2, so you can feed it hotter signals before it distorts.
I can't see any obvious problem from your voltages, for the first opamp all the pins should be about 5 volts, the low value on pin 3 is probably just your meter reading low because of the high resistor value connected to that pin, it's a common thing, the fact that pins 2 and 3 are correct probably means it's Ok. Have you tried changing the opamp?
When you say the pedal has a fuzz do you still mean the output is louder than the input, or is it just distorted but about the same level?
Quote from: slacker on June 09, 2013, 04:50:40 PM
I can't see any obvious problem from your voltages, for the first opamp all the pins should be about 5 volts, the low value on pin 3 is probably just your meter reading low because of the high resistor value connected to that pin, it's a common thing, the fact that pins 2 and 3 are correct probably means it's Ok. Have you tried changing the opamp?
When you say the pedal has a fuzz do you still mean the output is louder than the input, or is it just distorted but about the same level?
First of all thanks for explaining the resistance/gain thing, that makes perfect sense.
I'll try swapping out the opamp, I haven't had a chance to audio probe the circuit yet due to work commitments.
When I say fuzz, I mean that the pedal still jumps in level but instead of jumping cleanly, it gets fuzzier when I play/strum at a hard level. If I play gently the signal comes through clean albeit, louder, but when I hit harder a fuzz is introduced. This occurred with the chips taken out as well as with them in.
I'll try swapping out the opamp and get back to you.
Thanks for all your help. I learn a great deal from my mistakes and have been learning a lot lately.
I swapped out the opamp and even though the Voltage readings are the same the "fuzz" is gone!
Another amateur builder helped!
Thanks slacker, your name does not do you justice.
If you're ever in australia and need a designated driver, let me know, it's the least I can do.
Excellent glad you got it working, if I'm ever in Oz I'll give you a shout.
Hi folks. built this and everything appears to be in the right place. my feedback pot does nothing and i'm only getting one delay. I've tried resoldering the pot and changing the pot,and changed all the ics. Any thoughts about where i should be looking? thanks in advance. i've built pretty much all taylor's boards without any problem but this one has me beat
Did you do any mods? Have you tried audio probing through the feedback section?
Quote from: 4floorsofwhores on June 30, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
Hi folks. built this and everything appears to be in the right place. my feedback pot does nothing and i'm only getting one delay. I've tried resoldering the pot and changing the pot,and changed all the ics. Any thoughts about where i should be looking? thanks in advance. i've built pretty much all taylor's boards without any problem but this one has me beat
Hiya,
The same thing happened to me, but I had the feedback mod attached to the feedback pot. Have you done this?
If so check the wiring of the switch, make sure you're centre lug is the common and the outer lugs are to different options. This fixed the single delay problem for me.
Quote from: tombaker on July 04, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: 4floorsofwhores on June 30, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
Hi folks. built this and everything appears to be in the right place. my feedback pot does nothing and i'm only getting one delay. I've tried resoldering the pot and changing the pot,and changed all the ics. Any thoughts about where i should be looking? thanks in advance. i've built pretty much all taylor's boards without any problem but this one has me beat
Hiya,
The same thing happened to me, but I had the feedback mod attached to the feedback pot. Have you done this?
If so check the wiring of the switch, make sure you're centre lug is the common and the outer lugs are to different options. This fixed the single delay problem for me.
Thankyou. I'll give that a go this evening. I tried the feedback mod then removed it-no change. Maybe i killed a pot
Oh and Tom. Do you know Matt Rhodes? Long shot but i have only heard of a few Tom Bakers :icon_redface:
Quote from: 4floorsofwhores on July 10, 2013, 06:52:11 AM
Quote from: tombaker on July 04, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: 4floorsofwhores on June 30, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
Thankyou. I'll give that a go this evening. I tried the feedback mod then removed it-no change. Maybe i killed a pot
Oh and Tom. Do you know Matt Rhodes? Long shot but i have only heard of a few Tom Bakers :icon_redface:
I do not believe I do know Matt, but then again I'm terrible with names. I'm in Australia if that narrows it down.
Maybe the pot or perhaps the resistor that is connected to the mod. But I think if you're only getting a single repeat then the signal isn't making it through that pot. Try the audio probe or just some alligator clip leads to bypass the pot before you wire in another. If it's the pot you should get a plethora of repeats by bypassing the pot.
Great advice Tom :)
Hi everyone. First post, first pedal project. :)
I've looked around, but haven't found an answer yet. My Echobase is working as it should (as far as I know). When I crank up the feedback it starts this crazy oscillation (which I expected) that then gets really really loud (which I did not expect). Is this supposed to function this way? I've already had to troubleshoot this to get it working in the first place, but I'm just wondering if perhaps I need to work with it some more. Thanks
Quote from: grilojoe on July 22, 2013, 02:47:53 AM
Hi everyone. First post, first pedal project. :)
I've looked around, but haven't found an answer yet. My Echobase is working as it should (as far as I know). When I crank up the feedback it starts this crazy oscillation (which I expected) that then gets really really loud (which I did not expect). Is this supposed to function this way? I've already had to troubleshoot this to get it working in the first place, but I'm just wondering if perhaps I need to work with it some more. Thanks
Hi,
Increasing volume on runaway feedback is normal. If you have the runaway feedback mod or if you just crank the repeats to full the signal will get louder and louder pretty quickly until a point, but at that point you'll probably have the effect volume down quite low to compensate.
I believe this to be true as it happens with mine and has happened one a few other pedals i've used which weren't diy.
Okay. Another question:
When the tails switch is on, the effect is on. The bypass switch does nothing at all except turn on the LED. If the tails switch is off, then the footswitch functions as normal. I know I'm not great at troubleshooting, and this one's got me scratchin' my head.
It is probably a problem with the tails switch or the wiring to the switch. Double check that it's wired correctly.
Do you have a multimeter?
Cool. Thanks, I'll double check the wiring to that switch. It wouldn't surprise me if I screwed that up. I get anxious to finish and make mistakes. :icon_redface: Anyway, yes. I'll look again. Thanks for the help.
Yes, I have a multimeter, no it's not awesome. It works passably well until I can get something better.
Yep. Tails switch wiring was the culprit. Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I'd gotten a couple wires switched even though I checked and rechecked them before soldering them in. Thanks for the help.
Some other things came up, but got those ironed out on my own. Everything's working now, including the waveshape mod, which produces some sounds weird enough, I'm thinking real hard about a clean kill switch. We'll see.
Cool, I like it when debugging is that easy.
Me too!
I scoured this thread when the other problems popped up. I replaced the 4066 and had a faulty connection on the waveshape pot. After fixing those two things, it works like a charm.
It's a great circuit (thank you, slacker) and a great pcb (thanks taylor). ;D
I just built two of these. The first worked with no trouble. The second is giving me problems. I dry audio all the way to the output. When I probe the PT2399 I get the dry signal at pin 15. I also get audio at pin 9. But there's no delay and I don't here anything when I probe pins 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14.
Should I be getting a delay signal at pin 9?
If I get audio at pin 9, I should be getting audio at pin 11? What would prevent the signal from getting getting from the first filter section to the second filter?
Yeah you should get signal at pin 9, have a look at this post for voltages and what to expect on the PT2399 pins http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824)
Not sure what to suggest if you're not getting signal on pin 12 except to check solder joints and components around those pins. Maybe compare voltages and audio probe results with the working one.
Hey, I was wondering if anyone knew if a 2n3906 would be an OK replacement for the BC560?? Its a PNP and I know the pin layout is the opposite way round but would it work? (as long as the emitter is where the emitter should be and collector where it should be)
Yes that will work fine.
Great thanks!
Hey All,
I hope this is the right place to post for questions. I've just built the echo base and everything seems fine except that the dubmadness mod is not working as it should. I purchased the board from music pcb and followed the instructions provided in the manual. What happens is that when the toggle is on I get heaps of feedback as expected, but when it's off, the feedback pot is not working at all and I only get one slap-back. When I remove the dubmadness mod the feedback pot works just fine.
Any ideas on where to start?
Thanks.
oops i realized i posted in the wrong area! please delete.
Hi, I'm still wrestling with getting this one to work (stupidly I had a few of the caps at the wrong value :icon_redface: but thats all sorted and double checked now). Anyway I've finaly got some echo out of it, although the LFO side of things dosent seem to be working and i cant get a short delay time, only fairly long ones. On top of that there is also some noise when turning up the level of the effect. Also is the dub madness mod just meant to act exactly the same as turning the feedback right up?
I cant work out whats wrong, I've replaced the opamps with fresh ones just in case, but to no avail. Ive posted a pic of all the values for my ICs. Any ideas on where I might have messed up would be much appreciated! I used a BC558c in place of the BC560, hope thats OK?.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/11910264075_e14fdde857.jpg)
Thanks
On the phone on train, but just glancing over your voltages, did you notice your base of the 2N5089 is at 0V while the emitter is at 0.04? Also, the TL072 at the far right has a ground pin that's not at ground.
Does the LED flash? Does the Voltage on pin 1 of the opamp under the speed pot fluctuate or is it a constant 5 Volts. Does the Voltage on the wiper of the LFO depth pot go to zero if you turn it all the way down?
Yeah the dub madness mod is supposed to be the same as turning the feedback all the way up.
Great idea putting the Voltages on the PCB like that :)
Thanks Garcho. I really should have noticed the ground pin wasn't at 0! I've just had a double check and I cant see solder bridges going to earth, I'll have a nose around the 2n5089 and make sure any components leading to it are def the right value.
Hi Slacker, Yes the LED flashes at different rates as I change the LFO speed pot. The voltage on pin one does fluctuate around 5v. And yep when the wiper on the depth pot is turned all the way to the left the central lug of the pot reads 0, when all the way to the right the voltage fluctuates from – 0.12 to + 0.12.
Forgot to mention before the voltage on pin 4 of the right hand opamp is fine, there's a 220 Ohm resistor between the pin and ground so it is supposed to be slightly above ground.
Sounds like the problem is around the BC558, the modulation signal appears to be reaching its base but it looks like the transistor is permanently turned off, so there's no modulation this is also why you can't get short delay times. I'd double check all the solder joints on the transistor and check the joints and the value of the 220 Ohm resistor between the depth pot and the transistor and the 39k across the collector and emitter. Also make sure the transistor is the right way round, I haven't checked but the pin out might be different to the BC560 so don't assume it should go in the way the silkscreen shows. If you don't find the problem after doing that, I would try replacing the BC558.
Thanks for the help Slacker! That all makes sense. Glad I don't have to mess around with the opamp. I'll check out those resistors and the transistor tonight.
Perfect! Thanks for the help slacker. You were absolutely right it was the BC558! I think i had damaged the plating on the board when swapping transistors in a hurry, so I've just soldered it straight to the 39K and 220R and its working perfectly now. great effect! I've only had a few min of playing around with it but you can get a huge range of sounds from it. Thanks again!!
Excellent glad you got it working
almost done with my echo base and i don't want to screw this up...what is the correct pot numbering? if you're looking at the printed side of the board, is it 1-2-3 or 3-2-1?
The counter-clockwise lug of each pot faces the left side of the board, clockwise on right. I find the numbering confusing because not everybody uses it the same way.
Thanks for the quick reply, Taylor! So, if I use board mounted pots, facing down and behind the board, I'll be ok?
Thought I'd finally post a pic of this build. I've ad it working for some time now and just want to emphasize how good this pedal is! great range of sounds. best home build pedal I've tried yet.
The transfer is starting to peel off but hey, here it is.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/14067380886_cab99f8263_z_d.jpg)
Thanks for all the help in fault finding (finding my faults that is, as always if you just put the right components in the right way; it will work, first time. A lot easier than rushing and then having to find out what you did wrong :icon_redface:)
Looks great.
Is anyone else having trouble going to the music pcb site?
My AV software has been giving me virus warnings for months. I can open his home page & it says this:
Update May 23, 2014: Everything is currently out of stock except the Tap Tremolo and Christine Fuzz. However, new PCBs have been ordered and the projects will all be stocked by about June 14, 2014.
Is it Taylor's site or Slacker's?
Taylor's. I don't know what "Slacker's" is.
I tried again just now and got a dead link.
Hmm... OK, first, I have PCBs for all the projects on my site in stock as of a few days ago. But, I'd certainly like to get this website issue resolved once and for all before adding the purchase buttons back. FWIW, none of my computers or mobile devices ever give browser warnings so I can't even reproduce the problem locally to figure it out.
I'm kind of baffled by it because I have another domain which receives probably more traffic, using the same technology which has never had this issue. Perhaps "pcb" is a search target for hackers?
In the meantime, anyone who can't get on the site and wants to place an order can email me at taylorlivingston [the 'at' symbol] yahoo.com. Just let me know what you're ordering and the country in which you're located and I will send a Paypal invoice to you.
QuoteFWIW, none of my computers or mobile devices ever give browser warnings so I can't even reproduce the problem locally to figure it out.
Firewall/Proxy/Realtime malware apps etc, are looking at the content and something is flagging them. I went to the site from work the other day and the proxy blocked it thinking it is malicious. If I could get it to repro from home, I could probably diagnose it for you. For everyone else, best I can tell it is a false positive, been to the site and made purchases a few times without issue.
I have totally rekajiggered the website and shopping cart. Hopefully everything works more smoothly now. Please let me know if you have any problems with the new site.
Also, all the boards are in stock again.
The Music PCB site still doesn't work for me.
In what way? Malware warning? A bunch of people have used the new site to place orders without issues, so perhaps certain malware detection software just has blacklisted the site because of getting hacked a long time ago?
Quote from: Taylor on July 08, 2014, 05:17:58 AM
In what way? Malware warning? A bunch of people have used the new site to place orders without issues, so perhaps certain malware detection software just has blacklisted the site because of getting hacked a long time ago?
I've only seen it when going through corporate proxies that may have previously flagged it FYI. I haven't seen local machine malware software throw any warnings. If someone who is having issues could post a screenshot of exactly what they see that may be helpful.
For me Google search results used to show a warning that the site might have been hacked and Seamonkey used to warn you of possible Malware if you tried to access it, this was based on some sort of blacklist, neither of them complain any more.
Hello I am in need of some guidance, I have built the Echo Base PCB from Taylor I received this board last week from his new batch of boards, top notch I might add, and I am having a few issues that I am sure I am overlooking.
The level out is fine as a dry guitar signal, but the delay is very faint. If i turn the level pot I can here the change in the amount of delay but it is very very quite. The dry guitar signal is good and loud still. The LED on the is working and the tails switch and bypass switch are working as well.
I have a dry signal through the Audio TL072 on pin 7 and 3 With an audio probe, I have audio on the PT2399 pins 15 loud, 14 very faint I can hear repeats faint as well. I have audio on pin 9 and 12 as well. I can hear the modulation as well.
One question is the wiring of the pots, looking at the board as if it was sitting in front of youi, Left to Right 1,2,3 is the way I wired the pots I did not use board mounted pots. And i think I have those correct! Please correct me if I am wrong
I have looked over the values of the components resistors and caps and all look in order and correct. I have reflowed all the solder joints, and I have replaced all the IC's with other chips to insure I didn't have a bad one.
I have checked all the voltages on all the IC's and transistors and they all read within the spec on the 78 page post on the echo base build on this site. BC560 was subsitued with a 2n5087, and I did check the pin out and insured it matched the required EBC placement, it is the reverse of the BCS560.
I have read through this document and the other 78 page post and tried to figure out if I was missing something. i am using a regulated power supply. I do have 5 v on pin one of the 2399.
Any suggestions on what I should look at again, and what your best guess might be I am overlooking? I greatly appreciate your help.
(http://img_1631.jpg)
Hey Taylor and Slacker,
Having some issues with my build. It seems I'm having similar issues to 9aul back on page 27 of this thread but can't quite work it out.
Mods: dub madness on momentary foot switch
What it does: Longer single repeats. LFO knobs affect the delay time slightly
What it doesn't do: LED does not pulse with LFO speed. LFO is seemingly non-opperational, no more than a single repeat.
Here are my voltages: Something seems wrong here, but I can't find what the correct voltages are supposed too be in order to track it down.
TL072 -
1 - 4.97
2 - 4.97
3 - 4.55
4 - 0.00
5 - 9.38
6 - 4.97
7 - 4.97
8 - 4.96
4066
1 - 4.66
2 - 4.66
3 - 1.83
4 - 1.81
5 - 0.00
6 - 4.74
7 - 0.00
8 - 9.38
9 - 8.99
10 - 9.17
11 - 4.66
12 - 4.66
13 - 2.42
14 - 2.42
PT2399
1 - 4.97
2 - 2.48
3 - 0.00
4 - 0.00
5 - 3.10
6 - 2.48
7 - 0.86
8 - 0.90
9 - 2.48
10 - 2.47
11 - 2.48
12 - 2.49
13 - 2.49
14 - 2.48
15 - 2.48
16 - 2.48
TL072 -
1 - 3.03
2 - 3.13
3 - 4.97
4 - 3.00
5 - 3.63
6 - 3.13
7 - 4.97
8 - 3.01
2n5089
1 - 0.00
2 - 0.00
3 - 8.98
BC560B
1 - 1.05
2 - 0.56
3 - 0.00
7805
1 - 4.97
2 - 0.00
3 - 9.38
I think you've numbered your pins the wrong way - they should go in order counter-clockwise around the chip like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Pin_numbering_01_Pengo.svg/460px-Pin_numbering_01_Pengo.svg.png
Correcting for that, it looks like the TL072 on the right side of the board, which creates the LFO, is not getting powered properly. Any chance you used the wrong value for the 220R (this means 220 OHMs) resistors (220k by accident)?
You're absolutely right, I mislabeled the second half of each pin. Here they are fixed. I'll double check that resistor when I get home tonight thanks for the tip!
TL072 -
1 - 4.97
2 - 4.97
3 - 4.55
4 - 0.00
5 - 4.96
6 - 4.97
7 - 4.97
8 - 9.38
4066
1 - 4.66
2 - 4.66
3 - 1.83
4 - 1.81
5 - 0.00
6 - 4.74
7 - 0.00
8 - 2.42
9 - 2.42
10 - 4.66
11 - 4.66
12 - 9.17
13 - 8.99
14 - 9.38
PT2399
1 - 4.97
2 - 2.48
3 - 0.00
4 - 0.00
5 - 3.10
6 - 2.48
7 - 0.86
8 - 0.90
9 - 2.48
10 - 2.48
11 - 2.48
12 - 2.49
13 - 2.49
14 - 2.48
15 - 2.47
16 - 2.48
TL072 -
1 - 3.03
2 - 3.13
3 - 4.97
4 - 3.00
5 - 3.01
6 - 4.97
7 - 3.13
8 - 3.63
2n5089
1 - 0.00
2 - 0.00
3 - 8.98
BC560B
1 - 1.05
2 - 0.56
3 - 0.00
7805
1 - 4.97
2 - 0.00
3 - 9.38
Hey Taylor,
You were right about the resistors. I swapped them out and now I'm getting modulation on the LFO and longer delay times. Only problem now is that I'm getting low leval distorted repeats. They seemed to be clean before I swapped the resistors, so I'm going to do some audio probing and make sure I didn't overheat the 2399 or something like that.
I was able to finish troubleshooting and get everything working properly. WOW what an amazing circuit! Thanks Ian and Taylor for what will be many hours of fun.
Hey Taylor and Slacker
Everything is working on my echo base but the modulation.
I took some readings and something is definitley not right.
Tl072 on the right side above the output
1 3.5
2 .1
3 5
4 .54
5 5.3
6 1.5
7 5.6
8 .01
4066
1 0
2 0
3 0
4 0
5 0
6 0
7 0
8 7.22
9 .05
10 .61
11 0
12 0
13 1.74
14 2.2
TL072 on left side everything is like you posted except
3 .01
5 7.2
7 1.5
8 .26
Any ideas where to start looking?
Thanks
Chris
ps
I checked the 220 ohm resistors and they were right.
Hmm, I think maybe you've numbered the pins incorrectly - it should be like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Pin_numbering_01_Pengo.svg/2000px-Pin_numbering_01_Pengo.svg.png
So take a second look with that in mind, but if I'm mentally transposing the numbers correctly, what should be your 9v rail is low, at ~7.2. Might start with investigating what voltage your power supply is giving you.
I'm looking from the top silk screen side with the square in the upper left of the ic pins.
I'm using a 9 volt battery that is a little low but when I started it was at around 8volts.
the battery was almost new when I started and I haven't had any response from the lfo section except that it affects the delay time.
This is normal, the lfo needs full voltage, I have built a few of these now, given up on battery as an option altogether.
I will try a proper power supply in the morning.
thanks
just did two of these . i looked thru all the mods , but decided to go stock i guess .
i populated the boards , got sidetracked . finally did the wiring and it didnt work ... after 2 hours of toubleshooting , it was a single 10k i was short on . i was thinking i had left that out for a mod ... lol ... oh well , it fired right up no issue . i have to check the second one still but ... thanks for the great pcbs , i have done the christine , gristlizer and these , they all fired right up , pretty much ! lol .
i was gonna stick these in my noise box , but i am thinking i may pedal one , really nice sounding circuit !! - ( i am kinda echo snobby so ... )
now , to mod or not to mod . ? anyone care to save me some time and recomend the cool mods ( its for noise ) for this ?
try the dub madness mod with a pot instead of the resistor.
experiment with different value pots for the feedback and time pots.
A 9v power supply raised the values a bit but still no modulation.
TL072 right side above output
1 4.28
2 .02
3 5.05
4 .69
5 6.63
6 1.66
7 5.05
8 .06
4066
8 9.44
9 .06
10 .8
13 1.79
14 2.35
Anybody have any ideas?
Sorry
i did the wrong ic pinouts
corrected
TL072 right side above output
1 4.28
2 .02
3 5.05
4 .69
5 .06
6 5.05
7 1.66
8 6.63
4066
8 2.35
9 1.79
12 .8
13 .06
14 9.44
Anybody have any ideas?
my led does not flash btw
Tl072 under lfo speed
pin 1 does not fluctuate from 4.28
my 2n5089
e 0
b 0
c 1.45
The TL072's power (pin 8) is still lower than I would expect. It should just be a bit less than your 9v rail.
You said you verified the 220R resistors. The one connected to pin 4 seems right but the one below it - can you measure the voltage on either side of it? Your 9v rail seems good since pin 14 of the 4066 is at 9.44v. On the left side of that lower 220R, you should also have 9.44v. On the other side it should be a little lower.
left side of bottom 220r is 9.43
right is 6.63
left side of lower 220r is 9.43
right side is 6.63
Howdy!
I bought your PCB, built the pedal, and all was working fine until a couple of weeks ago. (I mean, AWESOME effect this!)
Now, however, the pedal is fritzing out. It's still working —The echo works, the LFO modulation works, the volume knob blends— but the input is extremely loud and clip-distorted. I say "input" because the output (through the echo, out the jack) picks up the clip-distorted signal and nicely echoes that. So you can hear a decreasing distortion in the output.
Although I'm super-happy at having serendipitously created a fuzz-delay, I'd like some more control over the signal, and not breaking other gear further down the chain is nice as well :)
So, my question: In which components might this problem lie?
So far I've replaced both the TL072N IC's, the 2N5089 and the LM7805 transistors, but no dice.
For me, the best way to debug that type of issue is to use an audio probe, and listen through the circuit starting at the input and moving until you find where things stop working as expected. This will help you zone in on the problematic area at which point you'll usually notice a bad solder joint or a part that's the wrong value.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/debug.html
Hi Taylor,
Building my 2nd Echo Base and this time I wanted to add a Tap Tempo board from GuitarPCB. I will be eliminating the Delay Time control potentiometer from the Echo Base board and using the Time control on the Tap Tempo board. My question is: are there any components, other than the Time potentiometer, that I need to leave off the Echo Base board and which pad do I connect from the EB board to the Tap Tempo board?
Sorry, I don't know the details of combining those circuits. It looks like the GuitarPCB board is using the Taptation chipset made by The Tone God, who is a moderator here on DIYSB. If you search this forum for taptation I believe there will be several threads with info. I believe there's going to be a conflict trying to combine tap tempo with the Echo Base's modulation - the tapped tempo is never going to be right when you have modulation on, and it's possible that having the modulation section including the transistor that modulates the PT2399 connected at all is going to mess up the timing.
Thanks Taylor,
One more question:
I would like to be able to set the lowest setting of the modulation speed to a slower pulse - what component would I change and to what value?
The 1uf cap on the far right of the board, left of the LFO SW pads, is the timing cap. If you increase the value it will shift the mod times into a slower range (twice as big would halve the cycle times, etc.). This is supposed to be a non-polarized capacitor, but if you can't get large value non-polar caps, you can connect two polarized caps with their negative leads together, then the positive leads to the two points where the original cap goes.
Taylor,
The Repeats knob on my build currently ranges from 2-3 repeats (with knob fully CCW) to infinite repeats (with the knob fully CW) - what component can I adjust in order to have less repeats fully CCW and just shy of infinite repeats fully CW?
There's a 20k resistor right under the feedback pot on the PCB. It's in series with the feedback path. If you raise the value of that it should lower the total feedback available. Not sure about what value would get exactly where you want though, and since I'm not the designer of the circuit I'm not sure to what extent this will interact with the capacitors in that network and possibly change the filtering of the feedback. So the repeats might get slightly darker as you raise the resistor value(?), probably will still sound good but maybe put some sockets there and try different values?
From memory, people like 68k or 100k for the feedback resistor if they don't want run away feedback.
With the repeats pot fully CCW the wiper should be grounded so no signal can get through the feedback path, if you are getting more than one repeat then I would check the wiring of the pot, make sure all three lugs are connected properly. If there is still the problem after that then disconnect the pot or just lift the wiper or CW lug, you should then get one repeat. If you do then the pot is faulty and should be replaced, if you still get more than one repeat you have another problem and signal is leaking through the feedback path somehow.
Just finished building an echo base and there is a lot of hiss on the first repeat. Does anybody have help regarding this problem? Any help would be much appreciated.
I'm trying to upload a 30 second clip, but I'm not seeing how to do it on here. Let me know and I can email it to you or if you can let me know how to post it here, I can do that, too.
It is hard to hear the hiss unless you are wearing headphones. If you listen closely on the first repeat and you will hear the hiss sound.
Thanks.
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/matfink13/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150309_173506_zpst0ntvooi.jpg) (http://s724.photobucket.com/user/matfink13/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150309_173506_zpst0ntvooi.jpg.html)
Finished this a while ago. Runaway repeats on second footswitch, tails always on & no switch for modulation.
Looking good, cool art. :) Is there a secret code spelled out by the highlighted letters?
No, nothing so clever unfortunately ;) I had to change a black letter over a black background, so I randomly changed a couple of others.
Looks great, where did you find that image? I must have it :)
I can't remember exactly, but I have it on the laptop (I think). I'll message you the link or the pic as soon as I find it.
Does anyone know why I would be only getting 1 repeat? Everything else works perfectly, seems like I had this problem many years ago but can't remember how I fixed it.
Problem in yer feedback path. Signal's going into and coming out of the 2399 OK, but not making its way from the 2399 output to its own input. Check around the parts under the feedback pot - the diodes and surrounding passives.
Quote from: Taylor on June 14, 2015, 11:14:09 PM
Problem in yer feedback path. Signal's going into and coming out of the 2399 OK, but not making its way from the 2399 output to its own input. Check around the parts under the feedback pot - the diodes and surrounding passives.
Thanks, Taylor!
I'm having great difficulty getting my echo base up and running. The led doesn't come on and I get no sound. An audio probe shows a clean signal on pins 1,2 and 3 of u3 TL072 and pins 1 and 2 of CD4066. I get a weird sound on the other pins here and on the pt2399. I've uploaded a video so you can see what I mean.
Pin readings as follows:
U1:TL072
4.91
5.03
5.03
0.89
4.84 - 4.99
5.03
5.04
8.87
U2:PT2399
5.03
2.51
0
0
2.90
2.51
3.16
3.17
2.51
2.51
2.51
2.51
2.51
2.54
2.51
2.51
U3: TL072
5.03
5.03
4.57
0
5.03
5.03
5.03
9.78
U4: CD4066
4.68
4.68
0.68 - 0.72
0.72 - 0.75
0
off:0.47-0.49 on:4.64-4.65
0
off:1.68 on:4.89
off:0 on:1.67
4.68
4.68
9.56
9.36
9.77
2n5089
E:on:0 off:0
B:on:0 off:0.61
C:on:9.33 off: 0.95
BC560
1.53
0.96
0
7805
0 (retested - 5.02)
0
9.75
I've used most of the mods from the guide: dry kill, diode lift switch, dub switch, waveform pot, modulation switch.
If anyone can suggest where to look I'd be really grateful.
Can any one suggest what's going on?
One thing that looks weird is that your 5v rail seems to be present, i.e. on pin1 of the PT2399, but according to your reading the 7805 regulator is not putting out 5v (should be present on the left pad). I'd guess maybe you just didn't get a good reading on the regulator - sometimes solder flux will prevent a good reading so you need to use the sharp points of your probe leads to really stab the solder joint. Try measuring again - I'm pretty sure you'll get 5v there.
Is this your first build? Can you post a pic?
Hi Taylor
Yes, you're quite right. The 7805 is giving out 5.02 which now you mention it does make sense.
I've built 6 pedals so far and started about 6 weeks ago so am attempting to learn as i go.
Photos of the build:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/911/9Ut6Es.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pb9Ut6Esj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/905/5fodEx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/p55fodExj)
Note that pin 11 of the 4066 does not appear to have much solder but I have tested continuity with the (1.5m?) resistor and it appears sound.
It's 1.30am here so am going to sleep now, but thanks for looking into this.
I've tried to follow the schematic to trace the signal input and I would assume that I should be getting clean sound from the guitar on U3 at pins 5, 6 and 7? This is where I get the horrible sound as shown on the video I posted. I do however get sound on Pins 1,2 and 3 (Pin 3 toggles depending on the bypass switch), which I understand to be pretty much near the output of the circuit. Have I misread the schematic?
Another question re the schematic - is there a way to identify which components are next in the path where there is more than one possible component? eg the 47u capacitors.
Can't see your video, it's private you need to make it public so we can see it.
The opamp top left on the board, under the level pot is the input and output stages. With the dry kill switch closed, ie: dry not killed you should clean signal on pins 1 and 7 no matter what position the bypass switch is in. See here for the pin out for opamps to make sure you're checking the right pins http://tangentsoft.net/elec/opamp-tester.html (http://tangentsoft.net/elec/opamp-tester.html)
Hopefully the video will give more clues as to what is wrong.
Oh man, I've made the video public now - thanks for pointing it out.
I'm getting signal from 1, 2 and 3 on the top left chip, nothing on the other pins, including 7.
Hi guys. First post here!
I'm a relative newb. After building a couple of kits I've now moved onto the echo base. First 'proper' build sourcing parts, drilling and decorating the enclosure from scratch, etc.
Waiting on some final parts, but all being well I'll be looking at a finished build before the weekend. One tweak that I'd like to make to my pedal is to add a 'drive' control that will adjust the amount of distortion on the repeats. I'm planning to achieve by tweaking the diode lift mod shown in the schematic; I'm hoping that someone can sense check my approach:
- Replace the SPST with a 10k pot wired as a variable resistor to control drive level.
- Add second pair of 1n914s in series with the existing pair to increase the amount of drive available for a more noticeably distorted effect.
It'd be awesome if someone more experienced than myself could confirm whether or not this approach makes sense.
All help much appreciated in advance! I'll be sure to share photos and some clips once my build's done.
Quote from: lordanthony on August 17, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
I've tried to follow the schematic to trace the signal input and I would assume that I should be getting clean sound from the guitar on U3 at pins 5, 6 and 7? This is where I get the horrible sound as shown on the video I posted. I do however get sound on Pins 1,2 and 3 (Pin 3 toggles depending on the bypass switch), which I understand to be pretty much near the output of the circuit. Have I misread the schematic?
Another question re the schematic - is there a way to identify which components are next in the path where there is more than one possible component? eg the 47u capacitors.
The 47uf caps are for power supply filtering, so they're not part of the audio path and you won't get any audio there even with a functioning pedal. This is generally true so when you're looking at schematics you can usually see that the largest electrolytic caps will be connected to power pins on ICs.
I should note here that the individual opamp packages labeled U3A and U3B on the schematic are in fact swapped on the PCB. So, the input section on the PCB is actually U3A with pins 1, 2, and 3. The output is U3B with pins 5, 6, and 7.
When probing, I'd recommend that you try to separate the different sections and look at outputs for each section. So check for the signal at pin 1 of the top left opamp on the board, then pin 2 of 4066, then pin 10 of 4066, then pin 7 of the top left opamp. If you can compartmentalize to find the problem areas, then you can focus in on them. It's tough because with your build it sounds like possibly all of the sections are not functioning. If possible, what I'd do personally is undo all the mods and get it working stock, then add the mods back once you know the circuit is functioning. It's going to be difficult to guess what's causing the problem with all the mods in place. Or at least double check to make sure you don't have something like the clean kill is activated (no clean signal) plus the level is turned down so you have no delay signal.
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on August 18, 2015, 04:25:52 PM
Hi guys. First post here!
I'm a relative newb. After building a couple of kits I've now moved onto the echo base. First 'proper' build sourcing parts, drilling and decorating the enclosure from scratch, etc.
Waiting on some final parts, but all being well I'll be looking at a finished build before the weekend. One tweak that I'd like to make to my pedal is to add a 'drive' control that will adjust the amount of distortion on the repeats. I'm planning to achieve by tweaking the diode lift mod shown in the schematic; I'm hoping that someone can sense check my approach:
- Replace the SPST with a 10k pot wired as a variable resistor to control drive level.
- Add second pair of 1n914s in series with the existing pair to increase the amount of drive available for a more noticeably distorted effect.
It'd be awesome if someone more experienced than myself could confirm whether or not this approach makes sense.
All help much appreciated in advance! I'll be sure to share photos and some clips once my build's done.
Hey, welcome. :)
By adding diode pairs in series, you actually raise the clipping threshold, which means you'll have less distortion at a given signal level, not more. You could try some germanium diodes instead of silicon, as they have a lower forward voltage, which translates to clipping threshold in this instance.
You could also try increasing the gain coming out of the PT2399, by changing the 47k to the right of the 2399 to a larger value, but I suspect this could disturb the functioning of the feedback and/or cause distortion in the analog switches. Maybe
Slacker can comment? I don't see another simple way to increase distortion there.
Quote from: Taylor on August 18, 2015, 08:41:57 PM
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on August 18, 2015, 04:25:52 PM
Hi guys. First post here!
I'm a relative newb. After building a couple of kits I've now moved onto the echo base. First 'proper' build sourcing parts, drilling and decorating the enclosure from scratch, etc.
Waiting on some final parts, but all being well I'll be looking at a finished build before the weekend. One tweak that I'd like to make to my pedal is to add a 'drive' control that will adjust the amount of distortion on the repeats. I'm planning to achieve by tweaking the diode lift mod shown in the schematic; I'm hoping that someone can sense check my approach:
- Replace the SPST with a 10k pot wired as a variable resistor to control drive level.
- Add second pair of 1n914s in series with the existing pair to increase the amount of drive available for a more noticeably distorted effect.
It'd be awesome if someone more experienced than myself could confirm whether or not this approach makes sense.
All help much appreciated in advance! I'll be sure to share photos and some clips once my build's done.
Hey, welcome. :)
By adding diode pairs in series, you actually raise the clipping threshold, which means you'll have less distortion at a given signal level, not more. You could try some germanium diodes instead of silicon, as they have a lower forward voltage, which translates to clipping threshold in this instance.
You could also try increasing the gain coming out of the PT2399, by changing the 47k to the right of the 2399 to a larger value, but I suspect this could disturb the functioning of the feedback and/or cause distortion in the analog switches. Maybe Slacker can comment? I don't see another simple way to increase distortion there.
Thanks for the response Taylor, it's appreciated.
After revisiting some articles about diode clipping, I now see where I was getting my logic mixed up assuming that adding diodes would increase clipping. Thanks for the tip on the Germaniums. Short term I think I'll wire a pair of Germs and the pair or 1n914s onto a DPDT to switch between lift, standard and germanium drive settings, adding in the pot later if necessary. If it sounds any good I'll post clips.
Driving the output of the pt2399 definitely sounds interesting - looks like an evening of Googling awaits! Adding some kind of input boost and output attenuation circuits similar to the Moog delay also seems like an option which may warrant further investigation.
Quote from: Taylor on August 18, 2015, 08:34:00 PM
Quote from: lordanthony on August 17, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
I've tried to follow the schematic to trace the signal input and I would assume that I should be getting clean sound from the guitar on U3 at pins 5, 6 and 7? This is where I get the horrible sound as shown on the video I posted. I do however get sound on Pins 1,2 and 3 (Pin 3 toggles depending on the bypass switch), which I understand to be pretty much near the output of the circuit. Have I misread the schematic?
Another question re the schematic - is there a way to identify which components are next in the path where there is more than one possible component? eg the 47u capacitors.
The 47uf caps are for power supply filtering, so they're not part of the audio path and you won't get any audio there even with a functioning pedal. This is generally true so when you're looking at schematics you can usually see that the largest electrolytic caps will be connected to power pins on ICs.
I should note here that the individual opamp packages labeled U3A and U3B on the schematic are in fact swapped on the PCB. So, the input section on the PCB is actually U3A with pins 1, 2, and 3. The output is U3B with pins 5, 6, and 7.
When probing, I'd recommend that you try to separate the different sections and look at outputs for each section. So check for the signal at pin 1 of the top left opamp on the board, then pin 2 of 4066, then pin 10 of 4066, then pin 7 of the top left opamp. If you can compartmentalize to find the problem areas, then you can focus in on them. It's tough because with your build it sounds like possibly all of the sections are not functioning. If possible, what I'd do personally is undo all the mods and get it working stock, then add the mods back once you know the circuit is functioning. It's going to be difficult to guess what's causing the problem with all the mods in place. Or at least double check to make sure you don't have something like the clean kill is activated (no clean signal) plus the level is turned down so you have no delay signal.
Thanks for your reply. I took the mods off - still no luck. Then reseated the 4066 a few times and it sprung into life!
I hhave now put all the mods back in and the sound is still fine but I'm only getting 0.3v on the LED, on or off. I'm much further forward than I was before though, so really pleased.
Thanks for your help.
Quote from: lordanthony on August 19, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
Thanks for your reply. I took the mods off - still no luck. Then reseated the 4066 a few times and it sprung into life!
I hhave now put all the mods back in and the sound is still fine but I'm only getting 0.3v on the LED, on or off. I'm much further forward than I was before though, so really pleased.
Thanks for your help.
Cool, and, no problem. :) I'm always happy to help when I can, but I don't necessarily know the answer to every question. Even after building stuff for a number of years, I still consider myself a student.
So, your audio is working pretty much as it should, but no LED? Do the bypass switching and LFO work?
What type of LED do you have? The 50k resistor to the right of the 4066 is the current limiting resistor for the LED. Depending on your LED type, you may just need to lower this value to get it to start lighting up. Try something like a 1k. If it's now very bright, use a value in between. If it still doesn't light, the issue is probably in the area around the 4066, or the LED could be in backwards perhaps.
Quote from: Taylor on August 19, 2015, 07:54:47 PM
So, your audio is working pretty much as it should, but no LED? Do the bypass switching and LFO work?
What type of LED do you have? The 50k resistor to the right of the 4066 is the current limiting resistor for the LED. Depending on your LED type, you may just need to lower this value to get it to start lighting up. Try something like a 1k. If it's now very bright, use a value in between. If it still doesn't light, the issue is probably in the area around the 4066, or the LED could be in backwards perhaps.
I did play around with different values for the CLR and got a good result with an 8k - it was working fine when all the mods were taken out but it stopped after I'd put them back in. The mods themselves are all working as they should; LFO switch and pot, diode lift, clean kill etc. However, I think I'll be ok finding the LED problem myself now. It was good to talk the whole thing through with someone - your advice was really appreciated. Thanks for your help again.
Finished mine today, but still some troubleshooting required.
I'm only getting a single repeat and the modulation doesn't work. The speed knob seems to control the pitch of some kind of oscillation. I've wired up with all the mods described in the build PDF.
Any ideas what could be causing the issues?
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on August 31, 2015, 08:42:07 AM
Finished mine today, but still some troubleshooting required.
I'm only getting a single repeat and the modulation doesn't work. The speed knob seems to control the pitch of some kind of oscillation. I've wired up with all the mods described in the build PDF.
Any ideas what could be causing the issues?
For the single repeat, this means your whole audio path is working, through the CMOS switches into the delay chip and through the output stage, but there is no feedback happening. Your problem will be in the parts right below the feedback pot, probably a solder joint that needs to be reflowed, or possibly a wrong (too large) value for the 20k resistor there.
For the modulation, if moving the speed pot has an effect on the sound, that means the link from the modulation section to the delay chip is good, but your LFO isn't oscillating. This involves the parts on the right side of the board around the right TL072. Since you have all the mods, maybe your LFO switch pads are shorted together, or a short across your switch contacts, which would stop the LFO.
Quote from: Taylor on August 31, 2015, 05:23:58 PM
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on August 31, 2015, 08:42:07 AM
Finished mine today, but still some troubleshooting required.
I'm only getting a single repeat and the modulation doesn't work. The speed knob seems to control the pitch of some kind of oscillation. I've wired up with all the mods described in the build PDF.
Any ideas what could be causing the issues?
For the single repeat, this means your whole audio path is working, through the CMOS switches into the delay chip and through the output stage, but there is no feedback happening. Your problem will be in the parts right below the feedback pot, probably a solder joint that needs to be reflowed, or possibly a wrong (too large) value for the 20k resistor there.
For the modulation, if moving the speed pot has an effect on the sound, that means the link from the modulation section to the delay chip is good, but your LFO isn't oscillating. This involves the parts on the right side of the board around the right TL072. Since you have all the mods, maybe your LFO switch pads are shorted together, or a short across your switch contacts, which would stop the LFO.
Many thanks again for the support, Taylor.
The feedback issue was an error on my part - I'd misread the instructions for the dub mod and had omitted the 20k resistor below the feedback pot from the board. After fitting the resistor the delay (without LFO) works as expected and sounds amazing.
The issue with the LFO persists however. When the LFO switch is in the 'on' position there is no modulation and there's a faint high pitched tone/oscillating/whining sound. The LFO speed knob alters the pitch of this sound. The LFO Depth knob alters the delay time slightly (suggesting that the problem isn't with the transistor) and the wave shape knob doesn't change the sound at all. The LED flickers briefly when the LFO switch is used but does not pulse with the speed of the modulation.
I can't see any shorts and have reflowed all the joints to the right hand side of the board and LFO related pots.
Any advice regarding where next to direct troubleshooting efforts would be greatly appreciated!!
So, the LFO's not oscillating. Could be something funky with the 1uf cap above that rightmost TL072? It needs to be a non-polarized part, what kind of cap do you have there? Does anything change between the two settings of the LFO switch?
Quote from: Taylor on September 01, 2015, 07:13:49 PM
So, the LFO's not oscillating. Could be something funky with the 1uf cap above that rightmost TL072? It needs to be a non-polarized part, what kind of cap do you have there? Does anything change between the two settings of the LFO switch?
Thanks again Taylor. The cap is a non polarised film type as per the build spec. After removing the TL72, reheating all relevant joints in the area and re-inserting the chip all is now working and sounds great! I love it! Will be sure to post pics and maybe a video in a couple of weeks once I've gotten round to painting the enclosure.
Initial thoughts are that the delay sounds quite overdriven in a Memory Man kind of way, which I absoloutely love, but can see why certain players would comment that the repeats aren't as clean as expected. Oscillation sounds awesome; way better the in any of the video demos I've seen. Wave shape mod is awesome, unlocking almost a faux sequencer type quality, dub mod is cool, diode lift doesn't make a huge difference but I've only played for a few minutes at low volume.
Further mods that I'll be including will be exp control of feedback and maybe a momentary footswich for dub madness.
Thirst for a Moog delay is now quenched. For the time being, at least!
Hi guys, new here, was having some problems with my Echo base build (1st of 2 - building one for me and one for a bud) and was about to post a question but it looks like this here might be (part of) my problem:
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on September 01, 2015, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 31, 2015, 05:23:58 PM
Quote from: Fine Mechanics on August 31, 2015, 08:42:07 AM
Finished mine today, but still some troubleshooting required.
I'm only getting a single repeat ...
Any ideas what could be causing the issues?
For the single repeat, this means your whole audio path is working, through the CMOS switches into the delay chip and through the output stage, but there is no feedback happening. Your problem will be in the parts right below the feedback pot, probably a solder joint that needs to be reflowed, or possibly a wrong (too large) value for the 20k resistor there. ...
Many thanks again for the support, Taylor.
The feedback issue was an error on my part - I'd misread the instructions for the dub mod and had omitted the 20k resistor below the feedback pot from the board. After fitting the resistor the delay (without LFO) works as expected and sounds amazing.
So I do not have this resistor populated either so that's def my issue (kicking myself because as I was wiring up my momentary switch assembly I totally noticed that I read the build doc wrong too but then forgot). thanks.
The mods I have included are:
- modulation shape - no workie
- dub madness - works (momentary footswitch - love this! even without the feedback knob working properly the oscillation works and sounds brilliant; neat warpage sounds if you tweak the delay time knob while engaged)
- clean kill - works
With the single repeat I can't quite tell if the modulation overall is working; leaning to not. I definitely do not hear any change when I crank the wave shape knob back and forth. I originally thought that I buggered the wave shape mod (when the wave shape pot it all the way counter-clockwise the LED goes out; it flashes a bit as you turn it up and then remains solid 1/3 clockwise and up), but probably I just don't have the modulation working at all. Once I fix the feedback and have more repeats it will be easier to tell.
Even if the modulation isn't working at all, it may not be for the same reason as Fine Mechanics as I am not getting that weird noise that changes pitch with the speed knob. Or maybe that's because I have the wave shape mod but he doesn't (?) What I do see is that when the effect is on (no matter if LFO is on or off IIRC, but I will have to double-check that) I have what seems to be excessive noise. More than there should be; I am not expecting this to be dead quiet.
Anyway, I'll try fixing the feedback and check some of the other things Taylor mentioned to FM to look at and see if I can figure out the modulation issue. So, uh, thanks for the help; I'll come back if I can't sort it out.
I got the feedback working so I have multiple repeats now. Got rid of a significant chunk of the noise by tracking down a resistor shorting to ground (shape mod; 240K to pot chassis). Modulation is definitely not working - haven't figured that out yet but only gave it a quick look. That large film cap is not the problem though. The 72 in the modulation section looks a bit crooked in it's socket so I think I'll try re-socketting that first in case there's a leg that's not making contact or something, heck even sub in another one just to be sure I didn't burn it somehow.
Resocketting the TL072 in the modulation section fixed the LED (no longer turns off at one extreme of the shape pot's travel and appears to flash the modulation rate when modulation is on, solid when off; a nice touch I was not expecting). That got my hopes up, but the modulation itself is not working yet. The delay itself is nice, but wish it had more repeats before oscillation. Hopefully that's related to the modulation problem.
I haven't tried outright replacing that op amp yet (resocketting improved things), but wondering if anyone else has any ideas about what could be wrong?
OK, so if your LED is flashing, then the LFO is oscillating. Since it isn't modulating the delay time, the issue lies in the linkage between the LFO and the delay chip. Check your BC560 transistor and the resistors around it, as well as the LFO Depth pot for any issues/bad solder joints.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about having more repeats before oscillation. The point of oscillation is when feedback = >100%. 100% exactly would be infinite repeats. Perhaps what you're saying is that your feedback reaches the point of oscillation too soon in the feedback pot's throw, like if it starts oscillating with the knob at center and is just all oscillation above that point. You can decrease the maximum feedback level (and thus spread the useful range of the pot out further) by increasing the value of the 20k resistor right below the feedback pot.
Thanks for the tips; I'll check around the 560. Quite sure I checked the Depth pot connections but it bears checking again.
Oscillation doesn't start as early as your example; somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4 turn before max which is reasonable in terms of the pot travel (I suspect this would vary with delay time setting, but didn't check). I wouldn't think there's much to be done about this for the reasons you mentioned, I just wish it 9x% feedback was equal to a higher number of repeats... (near)-infinate repeats isn't feasible being more looper territory, or some middle ground between, which is what I've been longing for; didn't mean for that to sound like a complaint (it's not significantly different in this regard to any other delay I have used, or at least the analog ones). Once I get everything else working I'll see how I feel about it and consider the resistor change you mentioned; thanks for that tip too. I doubt I'll bother with it though, but we'll see.
Once I'm done with this (and the second one waiting in line behind it for the offboard wiring to be connected - one for me and one for a bud) I have a Meat Sphere I am itching to try out. Cheers.
Removing the 560 (no surprise but could get a good read on it in circuit) I buggerred the base lead so I tested a fresh one and replaced it. Still no modulation. I looked at pics of other people's completed/working boards and I got it in the right way round.
The pots, including Depth, are good. The 220R in series with base is good. The 240K on the other side of Depth (on the shape pot) is good; can't get a read on the 39K across emitter and collector in circuit so reflowed but no help either.
Now the embarassing bit starts. I checked the 10u cap between Depth and the 240K and couldn't get a good read. Looked at the label: 2.2u BP. I have no idea how that happenned other than I was trying different cap types on the 2 boards I have going (just to see what diff it could make - never built 2 of the same at the same time) and my hand must have strayed. Replaced that with a 10u tant but still no good.
Just staring at the board in despair and I notice the 2 resistors under the 560 have the same stripes. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeet. Checked my "39K" bin and sure enough it's full of 220Rs and 1 last 39K. Put that one in and we have modulation! Man that can do some weird stuff; going to enjoy that after I stop feeling like such a bloody dufus.
Thanks so much for the help.
Nice! Happy to help. That feeling of something springing to life is a good one.
Both boards wired up and working. Enclosure paint by the GF of the guy the second one is for.
(https://41.media.tumblr.com/e7dd2c45ab0413b8339109cf2392ab28/tumblr_nvc9lf202V1unxz8do1_540.jpg)
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/a12484ef5f1f385fb32139bed328c2da/tumblr_nvc9lf202V1unxz8do2_540.jpg)
Haven't A/Bed properly yet (will have my friend do it blind) but from testing them both my initial impression is that there is little tonal advantage to using tropical fish over modern generic box films (but there is a disadvantage - nobody makes PCBs which leave enough space for tropical fish - I had to mount 2 caps, one fish and one electro, on the underside of the board to fit it all in).
Hey Taylor,
I've just finished building your board, and I'm getting no sound out of the guitar, just a lot of noise. I posted all of the troubleshooting guide details, as well as answers to a few questions over at http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112193.0 - let me know if it's better to re-post them here.
Hey Taylor- I'm a pretty new builder, and a first time poster.
I've finished the echo base, but am getting no echos. I get the clean signal coming through fine, but no echos. Everything else seems to be working properly- if i turn the effect volume all the way up I get some noise that seems to be modulating properly with the LFO pots, including the waveshape mod. The LED lights up blinks as it should and clean kill switch is working. I'm also using the dub madness mod, but don't notice a change in the noise when that is switched on or off. Any suggestions on how to get the echos working?
I haven't used an audio probe, but will try figuring that out tomorrow.
Thanks for your help!
Joel
Good news. I was using an audio probe to test the IC pins, and right when I was just about done- out of nowhere everything started working! The whole circuit is now working as it should, and it sounds great!
Does this just sound like a finicky solder joint somewhere in the delay loop of the circuit?
Thanks again,
Joel
Good to see you got it working. Yes it could be a dodgy solder joint somewhere round the PT2399, maybe have a close look and touch up anything that looks suspect. Or it could just have been a bit of stray solder or scrap of wire shorting something out and your poking around removed it or if you've used sockets maybe the chip wasn't seated properly.
Thanks slacker! I've really been looking forward to this build- and it hasn't disappointed. It sounds great! (When it's working). Unfortunately, the echos have stopped working again. I'll have to to a closer look at all the joints around the 2399. Thanks again!
Sorry for my late reply - I moved to a different city this last week and haven't had internet access.
In addition to slacker's advice, since you're getting the modulated noise and the clean signal, it seems to me that the short/cold solder joint must be in between the input gain stage and the input of the delay chip. If it was the feedback loop, then you'd get one repeat and then nothing.
Also, when things spring to life when you move them: early on in my DIY'ing, I often had issues with wires, specifically right where they connected to the board. I didn't have a good wire stripper back then, and I was nicking the wires so much in stripping the ends that they were breaking when I'd flip the board around in debugging. Just something to notice in case it applies here.
Finally getting around to posting for some help, been sitting on this for a few months. I built the MusicPCB Echo Base. An excellent, high quality PCB. I've added the clean kill mod and the wave shape mod.
The issue I have is it's very noisy and distorted. Some of the guitar signal goes through but it's very faint and it's mostly a distorted noisy mess. All the knobs and switches work in that I get the desired function out of them. Level changes the volume, feedback changes the number of repeats, etc. Except they sound awful. I've posted a link to the file in Dropbox, I would appreciate if someone checked it out. I did also try the diode lift mod that some have suggested in other threads, but it made no difference. I've also tried 4 different PT2399 chips.
This isn't my first rodeo, I'm a pretty good solderer (I reflowed all the joints) and electronics sort of guy, so if there's anything I can specifically look for, that would be awesome. Component values are correct too, I went through and rechecked everything and had to replace one component. The file is a few sting picks and mucking around with the feedback and time knobs, you'll get the idea when you hear it.
I've made a kick arse box for this with a slide on decal and everything. I really want to get this working! I'll post some photos and Inkscape SVG file when I get it working.
Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5tchcd46oo1vim/Voice0001.mp3?dl=0
Is the dry signal clean or is that distorted as well? Sounds like everything is distorted in your sound clip, which would point to a problem around the first opamp.
Quote from: slacker on December 06, 2015, 09:29:55 AM
Is the dry signal clean or is that distorted as well? Sounds like everything is distorted in your sound clip, which would point to a problem around the first opamp.
The dry signal goes through clean. I recorded the clip with my phone, so it's not the best. Take my word for it though, it is clean. Said another way, the dry signal sounds the same when the effect is on or in bypass. Everything works, all the knobs and switches do what they're supposed to do. Just that the repeats are very distorted.
The PT2399 doesn't have a huge amount of headroom. What kind of pickups(/preamp?) does your guitar have? Did you have any other pedals in front of the Echo Base?
Quote from: Taylor on December 06, 2015, 07:54:05 PM
The PT2399 doesn't have a huge amount of headroom. What kind of pickups(/preamp?) does your guitar have? Did you have any other pedals in front of the Echo Base?
No other pedals infront. I tried three different guitars. All had the same effect. One was active pickups, then I went to a guitar with a JB and '59 in it, then a guitar with Dimarzios. All pickups showed the same problem, even winding down the volume on the guitar gave me the same thing. In my audio sample, if you listen carefully, you can hear clean repeats but they're hard to hear under all the noise.
Also running off a 9V power supply. Also tried with batteries. Nothing has worked so far.
Another issue I have is when the LFO is on, I hear the click of it. Let's put that to the side for now and get a good delayed signal going.
QuoteAnother issue I have is when the LFO is on, I hear the click of it. Let's put that to the side for now and get a good delayed signal going.
could be related. when built correctly, there's no tick, and while there
is distortion you can hear with basically any PT2399 build, it's not at all like what you recorded. sounds like you should take some voltages and post them.
Quote from: garcho on December 07, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
QuoteAnother issue I have is when the LFO is on, I hear the click of it. Let's put that to the side for now and get a good delayed signal going.
could be related. when built correctly, there's no tick, and while there is distortion you can hear with basically any PT2399 build, it's not at all like what you recorded. sounds like you should take some voltages and post them.
I can do that. Is there a diagram on here with what voltages should be and I can cross reference that?
I did measure voltages voltages a while back, and it seemed to check out. But I could be wrong.
I might measure out all the pins on the ICs and anything else important and post them up here when I get home from work.
So I measured voltages. I realised I haven't tried the mod that replaces the two 47k's with 22k's. Because the board is such high quality, it's a pain to remove components. So I'll solder another 47k on the underside of the board in parallel at the two locations to test.
Thing is though, if this mod worked, shouldn't it have worked anyway with the volume on the guitar turned down? I've even got a guitar with coil taps and in single coil mode, no dice. In any case, I'll report back. If it doesn't work, I'll post my voltages.
EDIT: so the resistor substitution didn't work. In fact, I had to hit the string harder to get anything out of it. I don't think it's because I paralleled resistors. See next post for those pesky voltages.
And here's the voltages, refer to previous page for more info:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5054d9v9my5psbc/echo%20base%20voltages.png?dl=0
Pins 7 and 8 of the right side TL072 look fishy.
Not sure how to embed Dropbox images, sorry.
From garcho's suggestion in the next post:
Left Side TL072 | 4066 | PT2399 | Right side TL072 |
1 - 5V | 1 - 4.66V | 1 - 5V | 1 - 5V |
2 - 5V | 2 - 4.66V | 2 - 2.5V | 2 - 5V |
3 - 4.5V | 3 - -0.4mV | 3 - 0.3mV | 3 - 5V |
4 - 0V | 4 - -0.5mV | 4 - 0.1mV | 4 - 0.8V |
5 - 5V | 5 - 0.1mV | 5 - 2.8V | 5 - 5.5V |
6 - 5V | 6 - 4V | 6 - 2.5V | 6 - 5V |
7 - 5V | 7 - 0.1mV | 7 - 3.8V | 7 - 7.4V |
8 - 8.9V | 8 - 2.5V | 8 - 2.1V | 8 - 8.1V |
| 9 - 2.5V | 9-16 - 2.5V | |
| 10 - 4.66V | | |
| 11 - 4.66V | | |
| 12 - 8.7V | | |
| 13 - 8.57V | | |
| 14 - 8.95V | | |
you could just post them here, by typing them in, so the people willing to help you don't have to jump around from dropbox to downloads, etc.
Something's wrong with the PT2399 pin 7 and 8 voltages, they should be much lower than the 3.80 and 2.1 Volts that you have. Double check the values and the connections to the capacitors attached to those pins.
For reference here are the expected voltages http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824)
Quote from: slacker on December 08, 2015, 01:01:24 PM
Something's wrong with the PT2399 pin 7 and 8 voltages, they should be much lower than the 3.80 and 2.1 Volts that you have. Double check the values and the connections to the capacitors attached to those pins.
For reference here are the expected voltages http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg498824#msg498824)
I'll look at this tonight. I should have bought it into work today to muck around with.
Pin 8 of the 4066 looks incorrect also.
Finding problems is good. I might have to cobble together an audio probe also.
Should also point out the state of the effect. It was turn on, tails on, clean on, LFO on, no guitar signal. That is, i was plucking a string when I was metering. But it was connected between guitar and amp.
Quote from: garcho on December 08, 2015, 10:35:57 AM
you could just post them here, by typing them in, so the people willing to help you don't have to jump around from dropbox to downloads, etc.
Good idea. I'll edit the post so others can see.
It works. Here's what I did. I was inspecting the caps on pins 7 and 8 of the PT2399, the values were correct. Flipped over the board to inspect the soldering and pin 8 was not even soldered! Bloody hell.
I am a giddy goat and feel slightly embarrassed. I did say I reflowed all the solder previously. I reflowed the existing solder :P
Here's a question though, is there a way to mod the time pot so when it's turned all the way down, so the time is effectively zero? The slapback effect fully CCW is cool, but I want even shorter for those waling 80's metal leads.
The datasheet suggests a minimum time of 31.3ms (with a resistance of 0.5 ohms). Just don't allow it to power-up with a resistance this low. Not sure how easy it would be to achieve this with the Echo Base circuit, since pin 6 isn't simply grounded via a resistor.
I have been shown a mod using a led in the E of the slow-start/anti-lock transistor to get shortest possible delay. see if you can find a copy of Cozybuilder's "archangel".
Quote from: duck_arse on December 09, 2015, 09:25:14 AM
I have been shown a mod using a led in the E of the slow-start/anti-lock transistor to get shortest possible delay. see if you can find a copy of Cozybuilder's "archangel".
That schematic was posted in Jack Orman's rework of the Little Angel, I think the LED idea was from Jon Patton.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106572.20 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106572.20)
Quote from: Sanguinicus on December 09, 2015, 04:35:55 AM
It works.
Excellent good to hear you got it working.
Quote
Here's a question though, is there a way to mod the time pot so when it's turned all the way down, so the time is effectively zero? The slapback effect fully CCW is cool, but I want even shorter for those waling 80's metal leads.
You shouldn't need any mods to do this, with the time pot CCW it should be into chorus or doubling sounding territory definitely shorter than what you'd normally refer to as slapback. If you give us a soundclip I can tell you if yours is acting correctly.
Quote from: slacker link=topic=84109.msg1041233#msg1041233 date=1449683112
quote]
You shouldn't need any mods to do this, with the time pot CCW it should be into chorus or doubling sounding territory definitely shorter than what you'd normally refer to as slapback. If you give us a soundclip I can tell you if yours is acting correctly.
Definitely not chorus territory. Hit the link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5tchcd46oo1vim/Voice0001.mp3?dl=0
Quote from: Cozybuilder on December 09, 2015, 10:23:52 AM
I think the LED idea was from Jon Patton.
Jon's LED was on pin 7 in his Hamlet delay (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=101225.msg893041#msg893041) and is there to avoid distortion in the PT2399.
Quote from: Sanguinicus on December 10, 2015, 05:26:41 AM
Definitely not chorus territory. Hit the link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5tchcd46oo1vim/Voice0001.mp3?dl=0
Somethings not right there. I would start by checking for bad connections or wrong component values around the BC560/2N3906 transistor also make sure the transistor is the right way round.
Quote from: bluebunny on December 10, 2015, 05:27:36 AM
Quote from: Cozybuilder on December 09, 2015, 10:23:52 AM
I think the LED idea was from Jon Patton.
Jon's LED was on pin 7 in his Hamlet delay (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=101225.msg893041#msg893041) and is there to avoid distortion in the PT2399.
Credit Merlin Blencoe for this solution to the latch-up problem on the PT2399, it works great! See P.37 of the Little Angel thread.
Quote from: slacker on December 10, 2015, 01:16:25 PM
Somethings not right there. I would start by checking for bad connections or wrong component values around the BC560/2N3906 transistor also make sure the transistor is the right way round.
Transistor is the right way, the 220R and 39k resistors are correct and go to the right pins on the transistor.
Well that's weird. i was just mucking around, making it self oscillate and stuff and now the minimum delay is a lot lower. I wonder why this is. I didn't change anything. Seems to be working better now.
Quote from: Taylor on November 23, 2015, 08:16:11 PM
Sorry for my late reply - I moved to a different city this last week and haven't had internet access.
In addition to slacker's advice, since you're getting the modulated noise and the clean signal, it seems to me that the short/cold solder joint must be in between the input gain stage and the input of the delay chip. If it was the feedback loop, then you'd get one repeat and then nothing.
Also, when things spring to life when you move them: early on in my DIY'ing, I often had issues with wires, specifically right where they connected to the board. I didn't have a good wire stripper back then, and I was nicking the wires so much in stripping the ends that they were breaking when I'd flip the board around in debugging. Just something to notice in case it applies here.
Thanks to both slacker and Taylor for their help. I still haven't able to get mine working properly, and instead of making progress, I feel like I'm moving in the wrong direction. Maybe from too much messing around with it- I've had a few of the small metal circles at solder points come detached from the board. This makes soldering nearly impossible, and I don't think connections are being made at these points. Is there anything I can do about this? I'm considering just ordering a new board and starting fresh.
Thanks again!
It might be possible to make the connections that have lifted off the board by running wires or point-to-point connecting those parts, but if there are more than a couple, it could be quite fiddly. If you post a photo of which pads are lifted I could give you some ideas where to reattach them.
Your soldering tip should be hot enough to get the solder molten very quickly, so you can remove a part without cooking the copper off the fiberglass. Don't know what your soldering setup looks like but this is why a proper soldering station with temperature control makes life so much easier and your builds more robust. Aoyue makes cheap but adequate ones if it's tough to make the jump to something nicer like a Weller or whatever.
I did say when it's working I'd post the slide on decal and svg file. The box is primed, I just need to buy some paint. I should have some pictures in January some time. I like to let the box gas out for a few weeks for both the basecoat and clearcoat. I'll post the svg file then. Just so nobody thinks I'm abandoning haha. I think it's a pretty spiffy graphic.
Look forward to seeing it.
Yeah part of my problem is definitely my soldering set up, and I've known that. But when it comes to paying the money for a new iron, or a new pedal build- I always want to go for the new build! I'll have to just bite the bullet and get a new iron soon. Thanks for your suggestions.
I'm either not allowed to post an image, or I can't figure out how...
But if looking at the top of the PCB in normal orientation, I think my problem pads are:
1-The left hole for the 20K resistor just under the feedback pot (where the dub madness switch attaches)
2-The left hole for of the 240K resistor on the right (where the LFO waveshape mod attaches)
3- the right hole for the bypass stomp.
As always, thanks for your patience with these newbie questions, and THANKS for your help!
Joel
Well I attempted to box up the circuit board and hit a problem. The Mod speed knob doesn't work now and the LED no longer flashes. After digging around here I've replaced the TL027 and still have the same problem, reflowed basically every joint on the board (again!) and checked component values paying particular attention to the parts around the LFO opamp and the BC560 on the way to the LFO. I'm pretty bummed about this now. Any suggestions?
I also found removing the opamp doesn't do anything, it just turns the LED off. Input voltage is a good 9V.
Voltages for the opamp:
Pin 1: 5V
2: 5V
3: 5V
4: 0.7V
5: 3.9V
6: 5V
7: 2V
8: 7.3V
Your pin 8 voltage is too low, it should be at least 8 volts, the LFO stops working if the voltage drops that low. If you're using a battery replace it with a fresh one. If not check the connections to pin 8.
Hello... I just finished building the echo base and I have an issue... It is self oscillating constantly by itself... Is there an obvious solution...? I will start debugging but since this is my first delay project I am just asking if there is something obvious that I might have done wrong... Thank you in advance for all the help...
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 21, 2016, 05:27:37 PM
Hello... I just finished building the echo base and I have an issue... It is self oscillating constantly by itself... Is there an obvious solution...? I will start debugging but since this is my first delay project I am just asking if there is something obvious that I might have done wrong... Thank you in advance for all the help...
Maybe you're testing it with the feedback/repeats set very high?
Maybe check connections and components around the feedback pot
Quote from: slacker on January 21, 2016, 02:52:24 AM
Your pin 8 voltage is too low, it should be at least 8 volts, the LFO stops working if the voltage drops that low. If you're using a battery replace it with a fresh one. If not check the connections to pin 8.
Tested everything, took out the resistor to be sure it was 220R and it is. 8.9V input and still got nothing. The 220R is dropping 1.8V across it. Obviously too high.
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 21, 2016, 05:27:37 PM
Hello... I just finished building the echo base and I have an issue... It is self oscillating constantly by itself... Is there an obvious solution...? I will start debugging but since this is my first delay project I am just asking if there is something obvious that I might have done wrong... Thank you in advance for all the help...
I noticed that I have misoriented the pots... Is this posible to cause the problem...? It doesnt oscillate only when the feedback and pot is all the way up (or down since I have put it the wrong way) but when it starts I cant stop it... :(
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 22, 2016, 01:55:08 AM
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 21, 2016, 05:27:37 PM
Hello... I just finished building the echo base and I have an issue... It is self oscillating constantly by itself... Is there an obvious solution...? I will start debugging but since this is my first delay project I am just asking if there is something obvious that I might have done wrong... Thank you in advance for all the help...
I noticed that I have misoriented the pots... Is this posible to cause the problem...? It doesnt oscillate only when the feedback and pot is all the way up (or down since I have put it the wrong way) but when it starts I cant stop it... :(
So, if the Feedback pot is all the way down (or up) it doesn't self-oscillate, but if you begin turning the Feedback pot up from there slowly, does it instantly begin oscillating or does it start when Feedback is, say, somewhere around halfway? If it works that way, it sounds normal but you could lower the overall feedback amount by increasing the value of the 20k resistor right below the feedback pot.
Quote from: Taylor on January 22, 2016, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 22, 2016, 01:55:08 AM
Quote from: thanal9999 on January 21, 2016, 05:27:37 PM
Hello... I just finished building the echo base and I have an issue... It is self oscillating constantly by itself... Is there an obvious solution...? I will start debugging but since this is my first delay project I am just asking if there is something obvious that I might have done wrong... Thank you in advance for all the help...
I noticed that I have misoriented the pots... Is this posible to cause the problem...? It doesnt oscillate only when the feedback and pot is all the way up (or down since I have put it the wrong way) but when it starts I cant stop it... :(
So, if the Feedback pot is all the way down (or up) it doesn't self-oscillate, but if you begin turning the Feedback pot up from there slowly, does it instantly begin oscillating or does it start when Feedback is, say, somewhere around halfway? If it works that way, it sounds normal but you could lower the overall feedback amount by increasing the value of the 20k resistor right below the feedback pot.
It starts oscillating The moment I start turning it... not even halfway... I resoldered everything... even changed all the ICs and some components but the problen remains... I sould check the voltages but I havent done it yet...
Quote from: Sanguinicus on January 21, 2016, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: slacker on January 21, 2016, 02:52:24 AM
Your pin 8 voltage is too low, it should be at least 8 volts, the LFO stops working if the voltage drops that low. If you're using a battery replace it with a fresh one. If not check the connections to pin 8.
Tested everything, took out the resistor to be sure it was 220R and it is. 8.9V input and still got nothing. The 220R is dropping 1.8V across it. Obviously too high.
Replaced the resistor with 120R, no change. So I shorted the connection and it works now. So strange. Any ill effects from shorting the connection? Do I need a tiny load there?
Quote from: Sanguinicus on January 24, 2016, 06:41:08 PM
Quote from: Sanguinicus on January 21, 2016, 07:23:54 PM
Quote from: slacker on January 21, 2016, 02:52:24 AM
Your pin 8 voltage is too low, it should be at least 8 volts, the LFO stops working if the voltage drops that low. If you're using a battery replace it with a fresh one. If not check the connections to pin 8.
Tested everything, took out the resistor to be sure it was 220R and it is. 8.9V input and still got nothing. The 220R is dropping 1.8V across it. Obviously too high.
Replaced the resistor with 120R, no change. So I shorted the connection and it works now. So strange. Any ill effects from shorting the connection? Do I need a tiny load there?
I believe that and the other 220R are there to isolate the dual opamp that creates the LFO from the rest of the circuit's power supply, to make it less likely that the LFO pulling current would cause ticking to get into the audio path. Shorting it removes this isolation so you're powering that dual opamp directly from the same supply as the rest of the circuit, so you might get some ticking, or not.
Quote from: Sanguinicus on January 24, 2016, 06:41:08 PM
Replaced the resistor with 120R, no change. So I shorted the connection and it works now.
The fact it didn't work with 220R means there's something wrong with that part of the circuit causing it to draw too much current but I guess if it works fine with the resistor shorted then there's no harm doing it.
Interesting. Well I haven't done any extensive testing yet but it seems to be working pretty well. I'll post a photo of the finished box and the svg of the graphics shortly.
How does a resistor isolate the supply?
Some pictures and svg of the finished project
Inkscape SVG file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yn7df64h483i5f/ebd_new.svg?dl=0
Print the drill template to obviously drill the holes, print everything except the drill template and controls footprint layers to print the finished graphic.
The knobs are to suit the 1/4" knurled shaft 16mm pots. Got them off eBay out of China for pretty cheap. The toggles are sub miniature size. The LED bezel was bought of eBay also. Obviously change the graphics to suit your own controls. Don't mess with the pots too much as they're placed as close to the top as possible.
The toggles could probably stand to go down a few millimetres as they're almost touching the lugs on the pots.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/2t2xxr9dwil6lqw/IMAG2368.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhcgp0e19py1d18/IMAG2367.jpg?raw=1)
Looks great, I like the layout of the controls.
Hey! Similar theme:
(http://www.bouron.org.uk/marc/eb236.JPG) :icon_biggrin:
That looks awesome!
Hi everyone - just a couple of quick questions about the MusicPCB board...
The LFO Switch
If the DEPTH and SPEED knobs are all the way down, is the LFO switch necessary?
Is that equivalent to having the LFO switched OFF, or is it more effective to use the switch?
I'm just trying to save some space...
Extra Holes
There are lots of extra little holes in the board... are these for modding or testing or something else?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7sukr9bsrencwmy/echo-base-pcb-extra-holes.jpg?dl=1)
Mine ^^ has no LFO switch. As you say, if the depth is zero, then there's no need. I can't see your picture (curse my employers!), but I guess you're referring to vias, which connect the top and bottom layers of the board.
I can see the board - yes, they are vias. complex tracks wander along the pcb top, then via a via, a plated-thru hole, continue wandering along the bottom of pcb (and sometimes, vise-versi). they are not for us to use.
Ah! That explains it!
Thanks guys, you learn something new every day :icon_biggrin:
I've just finished my build, and I have a couple more questions....
It went into self-oscillation waaay too early in the pot range, so I swapped the 20k resistor for a 100k, and it seems better.
As described here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=98093.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=98093.0)
But my big issue is that I don't think my modulation is working!
My "LFO DEPTH" seems to just fine tune the delay time, and the "LFO SPEED" does nothing at all.
I have installed the LFO SHAPE mod, so I might try taking that off in the morning, to see if that helps.
I'd be encouraged to know if this is a problem other people have seen before, and it's a simple error on my part which is easily fixed!
Thanks again :)
So, the LFO is made up by the TL072 on the right side of the board, and surrounding parts. First check the voltages on that IC, and post them here. Check over the soldering in that area for a short or iffy solder joint. Potential reasons it might not oscillate could be that there's a short across the 1uf film cap, the LFO SW pads are bridged, too low of a voltage at pin 8 of the '72, or a cold joint on one of the resistors in the feedback path around that IC.
:icon_redface:
Alright... well... it's working perfectly now.
I started getting voltage readings, and noticed that my battery was reading around 7-8 volts.
So, I changed over to a solid 9v wall wart, and now everything is getting enough power and it's all working as expected!
I have the "Kill Dry" mod, the "Dub Madness" mod, the "LFO Shape" mod, the "Modulation Switch", and the "Tails Switch" all doing their thing.
Thanks heaps for the help guys - now it's time to box it up!
Yeah that's a flaw or feature of the LFO, it stops working with a low battery.
Is there a way of making the repeats distort ??
Thanks.
There are diode clippers in the feedback path, but I can't think of a simple way to get increasing distortion with successive repeats. You could insert some simple distortion circuit between the feedback pot's wiper and the pad it's supposed to go to. Or maybe try changing the input buffer to be more than unity gain, which would distort everything more.
The PT2399 is pretty grimy already, so perhaps you could get where you want by just removing some of the filtering on the delay signal and hearing how distorted it actually already is?
You could do the opposite of the "humbucker mod" make one or both of those resistors bigger, that should make the PT2399 distort.
Ooh ok. I've been using a distortion circuit after the EB with very good results, but my original signal was (obviously) effected also. I'm after that background wash thing that all the booteek pedals seem to charge an arm & a leg for at the moment. Funnily, they are the same sounds I couldn't help but achieve when I first started playing !?!?
I'm an avid single coil user so I'm not too sure the 47k mod would work for me. I will try it though cos it seems the easiest.
busted mine back out, and now the stomp switch makes a loud pop that echo's through all the repeats. could this be a grounding issue, as i just painted the inside of the box?
Just finished my modded to the gills Echo Base after years of wanting to build one. Huge thanks to Slacker, The Tone God and Aron for making this project possible.
(http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/trjones10/echo%20base_1.jpg)
However, does anyone else notice tone suck on the clean signal, both bypassed and with the effect engaged? I used a TL072 splitter to send the input signal to the circuit board and the dry output, and it's really obvious the clean signal through the Echo Base loses some sparkle when compared with the dry signal.
That looks great, I like the dip switches very neat.
I've never noticed any tonesuck, but if you're getting some here's a couple of things you could try. The second opamp stage cuts high frequencies above about 15Khz, which you might be able to hear. I would start there, just remove the 1n cap between pins 1 and 2 of U3A and see if you get any high end back, if you do then replace the cap with 100pF to 470pF, what ever you've got the value doesn't matter that will raise the cut off to above audio frequencies.
The input impedance is 500k set by the two 1M resistors before pin 5 of U3B you could change those to 2M2 resistors, that would raise the input impedance to about 1M.
The only other thing I can think of is how have you done the FX loop? there could be some way that has done something to the frequency response.
Quote from: slacker on November 20, 2016, 02:56:16 PM
That looks great, I like the dip switches very neat.
I've never noticed any tonesuck, but if you're getting some here's a couple of things you could try. The second opamp stage cuts high frequencies above about 15Khz, which you might be able to hear. I would start there, just remove the 1n cap between pins 1 and 2 of U3A and see if you get any high end back, if you do then replace the cap with 100pF to 470pF, what ever you've got the value doesn't matter that will raise the cut off to above audio frequencies.
The input impedance is 500k set by the two 1M resistors before pin 5 of U3B you could change those to 2M2 resistors, that would raise the input impedance to about 1M.
The only other thing I can think of is how have you done the FX loop? there could be some way that has done something to the frequency response.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look the cap at U3A. I took the signal for the effects loop after the 10k resistor from pin 14 of the 2399, into an IC buffer, to the send jack, from the return jack, into another IC buffer and back to the three caps that 10k had been connected to.
Regardless of that little quibble, I love this pedal. I'm usually not a fan of modulation on delays, but the Echo Base's sounds great.
Would it work to use a tantalum or non-polarized electrolytic for the 1mF cap? Small Bear is out of the 1mF and i have the tantalum and electrolytic on hand. Also, when I see people that have the speed of the modulation reflected by the LED dimming at matching speeds, is that a mod or part of the circuit?
The non-polar electrolytic would be fine. The flashing LED is part of the circuit, so you don't need to do anything special for that.
Could I also do the tantalum 1mF as well? Just curious what the difference is.
I haven't ever used tantalum caps. Early on I read that they can fail explosively, at voltages just barely over the rated value. Then there are the ethical issues surrounding the mining of tantalum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan_mining_and_ethics). I steered clear and don't have any experience with them.
So, I actually don't know. That cap is just in the feedback path of the opamp, not connected to the power rails. Hopefully somebody with proper EE knowledge will stroll through and let us know if it would be safe.
I found this - top answer is very informative:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/99320/are-tantalum-capacitors-safe-for-use-in-new-designs
Yikes regarding the Tantalum mining. No more of those!
Last question...for now ;)
Can I use a linear pot for the mod / LFO speed? I only have a linear 1M but could find some other parts to order from small bear if I had to so I could get the log 1M ;)
The schematic calls for a linear pot there, so you're all set. :) The only difference would be that with an audio taper pot, most of the knob travel would be slower speeds, and then the speed would ramp up a lot at the clockwise end of the knob.
Am I reading the board layout and parts list wrong or am I confused on what is log or linear? it says B1M. Is that not log?
it's linear and i was confused. bummer. have to wait for thus ONE PART!
Sometimes people actually do use A and B the opposite way, so it's easy to get confused. I should probably start labeling things "lin" and "log" instead of A and B to avoid that.
That could be helpful, but I should have paid closer attention. You did a great job with all of the mods explanations and the guide in general. I generally just need to slow down when building AND ordering parts. :)
I finished the board, switches and I/O connections and everything worked the first time powering up! This design sounds so so so good. Really inspiring and warm delay and fun to go crazy with modulation. One thing that I have noticed on the runaway mod is that the distortion and feedback creates a volume or apparent volume boost of about 2 x the loudness of the dry signal and normal echo signal. I love the distortion and wash of feedback but is there a practical way to keep the volume maybe just a slight bump above regular dry / effect volume? I'm designing the enclosure tonight and will post pics later this weekend when it's all finished but here is the rough enclosure build:
http://imgur.com/mby17B2
I'm pretty sure I'm going to name my clone the Void Walker - a nerdy shout out to my love of the the video game Destiny.
QuoteI finished the board, switches and I/O connections and everything worked the first time powering up!
don't you love it when this happens?
I imagine it will be a rare occasion but YES! Any ideas on keeping the runaway mod volume closer to the original clean / effect signal?
Nice! For the feedback volume, one solution could be to use the other pole of your self-oscillation switch to add an extra resistor onto the Level pot when the oscillation is switched on.
So you'd have a resistor, maybe around 22k to 47k, that's connected between the right and center lugs of the Level pot, only when the switch is activated.
Here are the shots of the completed echo base. Thanks Taylor, I will try that mod. Unfortunately, there are only two lugs so it sounds like I need to have a STDP momentary switch?
http://imgur.com/a/fXKwb
Looking good. Yep, you'd need a DPST switch to do that.
You could try instead experimenting with the resistor on the feedback switch - increasing the value would make the feedback stack up more slowly, so you might be able to get the sound you're looking for without launching so quickly into maximum saturation.
Coming back to this, and sorry for the delay. I found some time tonight to try increasing the resistance on the feedback switch. I first started with adding 15k to the original 27k and then without much change at all threw a 150k on top of that and I'm not hearing any difference to the charge time before saturation. It gets there in about 1 second. I'd like for it to take maybe 3-5 seconds. I tried upping to 1M2. Same result so the resistance change doesn't seem to be changing anything - leads me to believe I have it in the wrong place right? I am using a momentary SPST foot-switch with only two lugs. One lug is soldered to 3rd lug on the feedback pot and and the other is soldered to a resistor pack of 27k, 15k, 1M2 that also connects to the left sid of the 20k resistor below the feedback pot. All looks groovy to me but no change? Where did I go wrong?
Aplologies if I'm wrong but it sounds like you've added your extra resistors in parallel with the 27K, they need to be in series to increase the resistance, or just replace the 27k with bigger values.
You are correct, I added them in parallel. I will try to replace and update shortly. Thanks!
Ok, now for some other questions. The feedback pot causes self-oscillation and overload / saturation before the 3/4 mark. Is this a typical characteristic? Can I tone that down a bit to get more feedback without distorting? Also, which pins should be linked on the tails connections so I can remove the switch and always have tails active when I bypass?
Thanks!
I'm sorry for clogging up this thread with additional quick follow ups. Replacing the 20k under the feedback pot with 100k as previously recommended by others helped get more usable range out of the feedback pot before oscillation. I get to maybe 9 out of 10 before distorting etc. I put on a 68k in place of the 27k in the runaway mod and that was cool but sometimes too slow so I switched to 47k for the sweet spot. Completely personal preference though. Thanks for all the help here Taylor and to everyone else who has responded. Truly a fantastic sounding pedal and I am constantly inspiring looking through the massive thread at everyone's mods and builds.
glad to hear it!
For the tails switch, you can wire the center and right pads together to keep it permanently in tails bypass.
Hi all,
I need some help figuring out drill template/organization of pots for my echo base build. I'm adding in the knob for waveshape, a second stomp switch for the mad dub mod, and a toggle switch for tails. I'm having trouble figuring out how to organize everything so it'll fit easy in a 1590BB. It doesn't look like all six knobs will fit in one row, so I may need to drop the waveshape pot down, but then it'd be underneath the board, and I can't quite figure out how to best do that. I'm hoping to use board mount pots for the 5 pots that that is an option for. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! If someone has pictures (inside and out) of a build with the waveshape knob and how you organized that pot inside the box, that would be really helpful.
Thanks!
Joel
Buy a 1590q, my fav, for all two stomp builds, same height and width but square.
http://snarblinge.tumblr.com/image/9992205158 (http://snarblinge.tumblr.com/image/9992205158)
(http://snarblinge.tumblr.com/image/9992205158)
Thanks! Do you have a picture of the inside of that build? So I can see the wiring and how you position the shape knob relative to the board. I'm guessing based on the spacing of the knobs that you wired your pots instead of using board mount?
Quote from: WorthTheWords on July 05, 2017, 07:06:23 AM
Thanks! Do you have a picture of the inside of that build? So I can see the wiring and how you position the shape knob relative to the board.
I found your inside the box picture on your website. Thanks again for sharing. If I go with wired pots instead of board mount I might be able to make it work. Anyone else have a similar picture for a 1590BB?
Thanks
yeah my aesthetic bent just cant handle board mounted pots, not until I can be bothered fabbing my own boards, so I tend to add complications, and potential faults with many jumpers..
good luck.
I don't know if this is already up, but anyway, here's a template for anyone going the whole hog on the Echo Base using a 1790 or a 6500. It's got 2 footswitches for bypass and 'chaos' (I call it chaos just cuz), 6 knobs, 4 toggles. DC jack and in/out aren't there cuz I figured people would want to do it either top mount or side mount (I prefer side mount, again just cuz). Hope this helps!
(https://s1.postimg.org/itigpfrpn/1790_drill_layout.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/itigpfrpn/)
pdf at https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxSd6GuyaQOAckNTc3NBeXFwSW8/view?usp=sharing
Hi Everyone,
So i finally got around to finishing up the echo base and of course, I messed up somewhere. I'm getting a loud buzz in both bypass and delay mode, and no guitar signal at all. The Led lights up when I switch the effect on, and pulses with the LFO speed pot. Here are my voltages:
Left TL072
1- 4.96
2- 4.96
3- 4.51
4- 0
5- 4.96
6- 4.96
7- 4.96
8- 9.36
Right TL072
1- fluctuating between 5.76 and 3.94
2-4.95
3- 4.95
4- 0.85
5- fluctuating between 5.76 and 3.94
6- 4.95
7- fluctuating between 2.28 and 7.72
8- 8.49
4066
1- 4.60
2- 4.60
3- 0.89
4- 0.89
5- 0
6- 0.72
7- 0
8- fluctuating between 5.76 and 3.94
9- 0.44
10- 4.29
11- 4.29
12- 1.26
13- 9.16
14- 9.36
2399
4066
1- 4.95
2- 2.47
3- 0
4- 0
5- 3.19
6- 2.44
7- 3.19
8- 3.19
9-16 are all 2.47
What could be going wrong? Did I do something stupid? Thanks in advance!
Voltages look OK. Next I'd check the circuit with an audio probe (http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging). The left TL072 is the input and output buffers - try listening at pins 1 and 7 to see if you have any signal at those points (while strumming guitar or sending some music into the input). Also check pin 10 of the 4066 for audio, let us know what you hear at those points.
Weird. I didn't touch the thing overnight and now bypass works. Now a new problem has risen though, there's no delay and activating the clean-kill switch completely kills all sound. The Level pot also gets loud in the middle of its rotation and gets softer at the ends. None of the other pots have any effect. None of the switches have any effect either, except the clean-kill. The dub madness momentary switch doesn't do anything either.
With the effect engaged, I get clean signal on pins 1 and 7 of the left TL072, and on pins 1 and 2 of the 4066. Nothing at pin 10 of the 4066. Clean signal at the output jack.The LED still pulses with the LFO speed pot.
Well it sounds like all of your sections are working, except for the 2399. The voltages on the chip seem right, so try probing pin 16 of the 2399, which is the input, and pin 14, the output. If you've got clean signal going in but nothing coming out, there's something wrong with the chip or the immediate surrounding parts.
OK there is some wizardry going on in my garage. I haven't touched it in 4 days and now the delay works and the switches work? WTF?
Now there's a new problem, the feedback oscillates way too quickly in the rotation, I can barely up it to 20% turn and it goes crazy.
The rest of the pedal sounds great! LFO section is weird af, but I like it ;D
Hmm, strange. For the oscillation, there's a 20k resistor right under the feedback pot. You can increase the value to lower the overall feedback amount, so it doesn't oscillate as early.
I ended up trying a lot of different resistor values for that oscillation issue. 33k or 47k are great values for me :) You get a little more resolution in the range of feedback.
Just wrapped up a build of the EB. Everything worked right away, nice quality on the PCB! I managed to sub 2n3904 and 2n3906's for my particular unit.
I just keep running into one strange issue. When I power the unit up, sometimes I only get clean signal in both bypassed and engaged (LED functions). Like the delay portion isn't operating. Usually cycling power gets it running. It doesn't happen every time, and physical stresses don't seem to make it come or go.
I haven't tried a different 4066, 2399, or the proper transistors. I'm using a fixed regulator on my input voltage to hold it at 10 volts with ample voltage going into that to keep it steady. Do you have any suggestions or has anyone else had bypass issues on power-up where there was no delay? Thanks in advance!
Hi everyone, I just added the mods recommended for the feedback stuff and now I don't get any audio at all, even probing on the input jack. I replaced the 20K beneath the feedback pot with a 100K and the 27K for the dub madness with a 56K
Quote from: ReverendRaviRobot on November 24, 2017, 09:52:12 PM
Just wrapped up a build of the EB. Everything worked right away, nice quality on the PCB! I managed to sub 2n3904 and 2n3906's for my particular unit.
I just keep running into one strange issue. When I power the unit up, sometimes I only get clean signal in both bypassed and engaged (LED functions). Like the delay portion isn't operating. Usually cycling power gets it running. It doesn't happen every time, and physical stresses don't seem to make it come or go.
I haven't tried a different 4066, 2399, or the proper transistors. I'm using a fixed regulator on my input voltage to hold it at 10 volts with ample voltage going into that to keep it steady. Do you have any suggestions or has anyone else had bypass issues on power-up where there was no delay? Thanks in advance!
When the delay signal is not coming through, if you turn the delay time knob all the way up and down do you hear weird crinkly noises/pitch shifting? If you do, it would indicate that the delay chip and everything from its output to the output amp is working, but the problem is somewhere between the input amp and the delay chip's input. If you don't hear any of that, it might point to a problem with the 2399 itself. I remember that with some other 2399 projects people found certain situations where it wouldn't power up right - maybe something to do with the double-regulating (you've essentially got the 5v regulator in series with the 10v regulator).
Quote from: suryabeep on November 25, 2017, 11:52:12 AM
Hi everyone, I just added the mods recommended for the feedback stuff and now I don't get any audio at all, even probing on the input jack. I replaced the 20K beneath the feedback pot with a 100K and the 27K for the dub madness with a 56K
Even if adding those mods messed up the delay signal path, it shouldn't have any effect on the signal at the input jack since there's buffering in between those points, so you may just have broken the input wire in taking it out of the enclosure and putting it back in, or shorted the input to ground against the enclosure. Try checking for continuity to ground at the input.
There was no delay-regen noise when messing with any controls when it was in the failure mode. I managed to get it to reliably fail on power-up by having both delay time and depth pots at full minimum. Since the board was built, mounted, and fully wired into my chassis, I opted to place a 150 ohm resistor in series with the 57K delay time pot at my front panel. It now powers up and operates reliably every time.
The dual regulator system was so I could run the echobase off a >12+ volt supply since the 5V regulator seems to not only supply the PT2399 but forms a virtual ground for the op amps. Maybe I'm wrong, but either way it is up and running reliably now. Thanks for your assistance!
I finally finished my Echo Base yesterday. I originally didn't properly account for the space required for top-mounted jacks. Then I messed up the board / broke some traces trying to remove components, so I had to order a new board and start over.
In any case, here is my take on the Echo Base. I included pretty much every documented mod. On my second attempt I needed to get the board to sit lower so I skipped the board mounted pots. I also mounted a couple components on the bottom to allow the 7805 to lie flat. It's still a tight squeeze up near the in-jack, but it works. And, BTW, it sounds great.
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh606/bcalla44/GEcho/GEcho%20Face_zpsdf71na3s.jpg~original)
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh606/bcalla44/GEcho/GEcho%20Jacks_zpsfrpvys58.jpg~original)
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh606/bcalla44/GEcho/GEcho%20Front_zpsnovdxbyd.jpg~original)
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh606/bcalla44/GEcho/GEcho%20PCB_zpsdfrsa1br.jpg~original)
For those who've been waiting, I finally have the Echo Base PCB back in stock!
http://www.musicpcb.com/pcbs/echo-base-delay
Hi,
finished the echobase some days ago, but have some problems with it.
Running on 9 V, Mods: LFO off, Clean Signal Kill, LFO Waveshape, Dub Madness, Humbucker friendly
Clean signal ok, Kill switch is working.
LFO Waveshape: changes between triangle and square wave
Dub Madness: working
LED: no function
Echo is not working for the clean signal. With Tails on and Dub Madness on or Feedback knob full on, a lot of noise builds up. This is independent from the clean signal and I can influence it with the Time and Mod Depth knob.
So in a way it's working, but the connection between dry and wet is missing. I tried to read the schematics (that I don't really understand) and controlled the board multiple times, but didn't find anything.
The voltages:
PT2399
1: 5
2: 2,5
3: 0
4: 0
5: 2,7
6: 2,5
7: 0,73
8: 0,7
9-16: all 2,5
4066
1: 4,35
2: 4,35
3: 0
4: 0,04-0,08
5: 0
6: 0,5
7: 0
8: 3,6-5 (triangle wave)
9: 0,02
10: 4,65
11: 4,65
12: 9,44
13: 1,37
14: 9,68
5089
E: 0
B: 0,62
C: 0,99
TL072 (left)
1: 5
2: 5
3: 4,55
4: 0
5: 5
6: 5
7: 5
8: 9,72
TL072 (LFO)
1: 5
2: 5
3: 5
4: 0,84-0,97
5: 3-6
6: 5
7: 2-9 (almost square wave)
8: 8,85
I have audio on pin 1 and 7 from the 7072 (left) and pin 10 at ic 4066. At IC 2399, I have very low audio on pin 16 and 13, low audio on pin 14 and more output at pin 15.
Any hint where to look at would be very welcome.
I finished my musicpcb echo base this evening.
Appears to be somewhat working....
the tails switch seems to do nothing at all
The echo only does one single repeat under all settings
Any suggestions as to where to start looking?
I'm guessing its an issue in the CD4066 not actually switching when the tails is switched
Anyone know what kind of voltage/signal should be at the tails switch?
thanks
Quote from: geklimper on May 08, 2019, 05:20:41 PM
Hi,
finished the echobase some days ago, but have some problems with it.
Running on 9 V, Mods: LFO off, Clean Signal Kill, LFO Waveshape, Dub Madness, Humbucker friendly
Clean signal ok, Kill switch is working.
LFO Waveshape: changes between triangle and square wave
Dub Madness: working
LED: no function
Echo is not working for the clean signal. With Tails on and Dub Madness on or Feedback knob full on, a lot of noise builds up. This is independent from the clean signal and I can influence it with the Time and Mod Depth knob.
Sorry, I had trouble understanding this. It sounds like your delay chip is doing what it's supposed to do, but the audio signal is not getting into the delay chip, is that right? So you get delayed noise, but no delayed version of your input signal? If so, it sounds like most of your sections are working, but perhaps the issue is around the 4066 switch.
For the LED, you may need to alter the value of the 50k resistor to the bottom right of the 4066. For many LEDs this will be too high - try a lower value around 5k.
Quote from: brittney on May 09, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
I finished my musicpcb echo base this evening.
Appears to be somewhat working....
the tails switch seems to do nothing at all
The echo only does one single repeat under all settings
Any suggestions as to where to start looking?
I'm guessing its an issue in the CD4066 not actually switching when the tails is switched
Anyone know what kind of voltage/signal should be at the tails switch?
thanks
If you only get one repeat, it probably means your feedback path is messed up somewhere. Signal is getting into the delay chip, but not back from the output of that to its own input. The parts to the right of the 2399 and the feedback pot would be the place to check. See if the signal is coming out of the center lug of the feedback pot.
Quote from: Taylor on May 09, 2019, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: geklimper on May 08, 2019, 05:20:41 PM
Hi,
finished the echobase some days ago, but have some problems with it.
Running on 9 V, Mods: LFO off, Clean Signal Kill, LFO Waveshape, Dub Madness, Humbucker friendly
Clean signal ok, Kill switch is working.
LFO Waveshape: changes between triangle and square wave
Dub Madness: working
LED: no function
Echo is not working for the clean signal. With Tails on and Dub Madness on or Feedback knob full on, a lot of noise builds up. This is independent from the clean signal and I can influence it with the Time and Mod Depth knob.
Sorry, I had trouble understanding this. It sounds like your delay chip is doing what it's supposed to do, but the audio signal is not getting into the delay chip, is that right? So you get delayed noise, but no delayed version of your input signal? If so, it sounds like most of your sections are working, but perhaps the issue is around the 4066 switch.
For the LED, you may need to alter the value of the 50k resistor to the bottom right of the 4066. For many LEDs this will be too high - try a lower value around 5k.
Hi Taylor, thanks for your support! I changed the resistor, but still no LED. I had a signal at 4066 pin 8, but nothing at pin 9. On control pin 6 I had only 0.45 V, what means "off" (found this in another thread, https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.60). The only thing to make this off is the bypass switch, and because I want to use the echobase in my eurorack, I had no bypass switch and had these contacts open, assuming bypass means closing. Bridged it and voila, everything is working. Stupid mistake, but learned something on the way.
Help! Taylor, or anyone who can help.
After having this board sitting around for God knows how long, I'm finally populating it. But I managed to strip the pads for one of the resistors--don't ask, I didn't even know this level of cluster@#$% was possible with a plated through board--and I am having trouble figuring out where to tack the resistor onto other components.
The resistor in question is the 47k on the right side of the PT2399, between the 1n cap and the 10k resistor. Referring to the schematic, I'm not sure if it is the 47k that connects to pin 14 or pin 15 of the PT2399, and, that said, I'm also not sure how the various components line up in the layout--that is, even if I was sure which components it's supposed to connect to, I don't know which side is which.
TIA
Quote from: Ben N on June 04, 2019, 07:35:44 AM
Help! Taylor, or anyone who can help.
After having this board sitting around for God knows how long, I'm finally populating it. But I managed to strip the pads for one of the resistors--don't ask, I didn't even know this level of cluster@#$% was possible with a plated through board--and I am having trouble figuring out where to tack the resistor onto other components.
The resistor in question is the 47k on the right side of the PT2399, between the 1n cap and the 10k resistor. Referring to the schematic, I'm not sure if it is the 47k that connects to pin 14 or pin 15 of the PT2399, and, that said, I'm also not sure how the various components line up in the layout--that is, even if I was sure which components it's supposed to connect to, I don't know which side is which.
TIA
Its the 47K that is coming directly off of Pin 14 of the PT2399. The schematic on Taylor's site will show you how the other side connects. So.....
One side connects directly to Pin 14 of PT2399
Other side connects to BOTH 10K resistors directly below it AND one side of the 15n cap directly below the LFO DEPTH pot.
P.S. You can see all of this if you blow up the PCB pics on the site.
Thanks, GL, good call on the pic of the pcb from the site. I ended up pushing the resistor into the holes anyway, in the name of mechanical stability, and wiring them to the IC socket pin and the cap lead using good old fashioned perfboarding skills and some judiciously placed shrink tube. All good now (at least until my next Tayda order rolls in and I can finish).
One more (sheepish) question: the 50k hanging off pin 8 of the 4066 - the schematic says 10k-50k, while the board and the BOM both say 50k, which is kind of an odd value. Any reason not to use 47k or 51k? Is there any purpose in using a lower value? (Apologies if this is covered already in the thread--I couldn't find it with a search, and I'm not about to reread all 38 pages.)
Ack, never mind--it's the LED resistor, of course. This is what happens when I go into paint by numbers mode, and it's not pretty. Sorry.
Quote from: 1878 on April 12, 2011, 02:18:46 PM
The problem with the bypass has gone (solder bridge on the tails switch) and I've had a go with the audio probe... Nothing conclusive. I'm wondering if it's the PT2399. I bought 10 of them from Ebay a while back and they were CHEAP !! Maybe they were cheap for a reason.
What makes it so frustrating is I can hear everything is working as it should !?!? All the controls work correctly, just this horrible distorted noise coming out of it.
I shall endeavour to persevere.
Looks like I have the same problem. Yesterday I was checking the pcb and it was working with some components not yet wired, today I've wired them and I can hear the sound, but there are a lot of background gray-ish noise out of it. However, the pots are working. What voltages can help to investigate it? Also, the LED is not working and 7805 is getting hot pretty quick.
Thank you.
UPD: looks like like I've reversed 7805. After reversing it back LED started to work.
However, the noise has not disappeared (although the amount of it reduced). There is one more thing which does not work: modulation. LFO depth pot changes the sound only while turning it, no modulation appeared, but it should be (it was yesterday). LFO speed pot is not affecting the sound at all. Would be grateful for any ideas what could be wrong there...
I'm having 8.8V on 7805 output, is this expected?
Quote from: Taylor on February 25, 2016, 11:48:52 AM
So, the LFO is made up by the TL072 on the right side of the board, and surrounding parts. First check the voltages on that IC, and post them here. Check over the soldering in that area for a short or iffy solder joint. Potential reasons it might not oscillate could be that there's a short across the 1uf film cap, the LFO SW pads are bridged, too low of a voltage at pin 8 of the '72, or a cold joint on one of the resistors in the feedback path around that IC.
I have the following voltages on TL072 in the right side of the board:
7.5 8.05
2.15 2.16
7.46 7.46
0.8 5.59And the following on 7805:
7.46 0 8.9
Hmm, well the 7805 is a 5 volt regulator, so you may have fried it when you had it in backwards, since it's now putting out around 7.5v. I would replace that and see if the modulation starts happening.
As far as the noise, this chip does produce some noise, and more of it the longer the delay time is set. Does the noise mostly go away if you turn the delay time very short?
I definitely fried something, probably, something more. Tried another 7805 and modulation still isn't happening and 7805 is getting pretty hot quickly.
If I'm connecting 9V battery to the 7805's input and having 5V at the output, can I assume that 7805 works fine?
Quote from: Taylor on August 22, 2019, 01:02:14 AMDoes the noise mostly go away if you turn the delay time very short?
Nope, it's always present. Is there sense to change all the ICs and transistors or better to go one by one?
if you really have less volts on the input of a regulator, and more volts on its output, you have a short somewhere else on the board.
Quote from: duck_arse on August 22, 2019, 10:59:06 AM
if you really have less volts on the input of a regulator, and more volts on its output, you have a short somewhere else on the board.
Thanks, will verify this.
May I ask a silly question regarding 7805 orientation: is it the left pin near 47 uF cap "IN"?
Quote from: telebiker on August 22, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Quote from: duck_arse on August 22, 2019, 10:59:06 AM
if you really have less volts on the input of a regulator, and more volts on its output, you have a short somewhere else on the board.
Thanks, will verify this.
May I ask a silly question regarding 7805 orientation: is it the left pin near 47 uF cap "IN"?
No, the voltage input is close to the edge of the board, the side near that cap is the output that should be 5v.
And if I'm connecting 9V to the 7805's input and having 5V at the output, can I assume that 7805 works fine?
Yes.
I have installed working 7805 properly and now I have the following results: at the output I can hear dry signal without changes, potentiometers do not affect the sound at all, the LED does not working. I'm having 5V at the 7805's output and 0.7V at the LED's positive lug. Also, I have not wired bypass switch, I used effects tester PCB with in, out, +9V and GND wires connected.
I have found the post with referenced voltages, and after quoting here is what I have:
Quote from: slacker on December 04, 2007, 02:49:50 PM
To help with the debugging here's some voltages and other info that we found useful when me and Mike F were debugging his.
PT2399
1. 5v
2. 2.5v
3. 0
4. 0
5. 2.89v
6. 2.5v
7. 0.5v
8. 0.5 v
9 - 16 all 2.5v
4066
Some of the voltages change depending on if the effect is on or bypassed (off) so I've shown the voltages for the different states.
1. 4.6v
2. 4.6v
3. 0.4v
4. 0.4v
5. 0
6. 0.45v off 4.5v on
7. 0
8. 9v
9. 3v on 0.32 off
10. 4.6v
11. 4.6v
12. 8.5 on
13. 8.5 on
14. 9
When the effect is off depending on which position the tails/Boss switch is in either pin 12 or 13 will be 1.25v the other will be about 8.7 volts.
The TL072 voltages are
U3 top left of vero
1. 5v
2. 5v
3. 5v
4. 0
5. 5v
6. 5v
7. 5v
8. 9v
U1 bottom left of vero, this is the LFO
1. changes
2. 5v
3. 5v
4. 0.8v
5. changes
6. 5v
7. changes
8. 8v
The voltages on the 5089 should change depending on the position of the bypass switch.
E. 0
B. 0.63v off 0 on
C. 0.89v off 8.5v on
These are audio probe results from the PT2399
16. very quiet signal
15. delay
14. loud delay with cyclic noise
13. nothing, or possibly a very quiet signal
12. delay with hiss
11. very quiet delay with hiss
10. very quiet delay with hiss
9 . delay with cyclic noise and hiss
Highlighting values that severely differ from slacker's reference:
PT2399
1. 5.02V
2. 2.48V
3. 0
4. 0
5. 2.98V
6. 2.48V
7. 4.54V (should be 0.5V)
8. 1.12V (slightly varies) (should be 0.5V)
9. 2.48V
10. 2.47V
11. 0.78V (slightly varies) (should be 2.5V)
12. 4.75V (should be 2.5V)
13. 3.92V (should be 2.5V)
14. 0.09V (should be 2.5V)
15. 2.48V
16. 2.48V
4066 (no bypass switch wired, connected to effects tester PCB with in, out, +9V and GND wires)
1. 4.7V
2. 4.7V
3. 1.59V (should be 0.4V)
4. 1.56V (slightly varies) (should be 0.4V)
5. 0
6. 1.14V (slightly varies) (should be 0.45V off and 4.5V on)
7. 0
8. 5.06V (should be 9V)
9. 0.75V (should be 0.32V off and 3V on)
10. 4.7V
11. 4.7V
12. 8.6V
13. 8.6V
14. 8.9V
The TL072 (non-LFO)
1. 5.02V
2. 5.02V
3. 4.6V (should be 5V, probably that's ok)
4. 0
5. 5.02V
6. 5.03V
7. 5.02V
8. 8.9V
LFO TL072
1. 5.08V (does not change)
2. 5.02V
3. 5.02V
4. 0.79V
5. 5.05V (does not change)
6. 5.02V
7. 5.03V (does not change)
8. 8.1V
2N5089 (no bypass switch wired, connected to effects tester PCB with in, out, +9V and GND wires, not sure what voltage should be in this case, it corresponds disabled effect, but I have measured when in was enabled)
E. 0
B. 0.61V
C. 0.94V
BC560 (from the left to right)
1. 0.76V
2. 0.25V
3. 0
Audio probe results from the PT2399
16. no sound (should be very quiet signal)
15. dry signal (should be delay)
14. quiet hum and noise (should be loud delay with cyclic noise)
13. hum and noise (should be nothing, or possibly a very quiet signal)
12. loud hum and noise (should be delay with hiss)
11. very loud hum (should be quiet delay with hiss)
10. very quiet dry signal with hiss (cannot notice delay)
9 . dry signal with cyclic noise and hiss (cannot notice delay)
Would be grateful for recommendations how to debug this further...
Because this effect has its own buffered bypass, if you haven't wired anything to the bypass switch terminals, it might just be in bypassed mode, so no signal would be getting to the delay chip. I would wire up the bypass and tails switches while you're debugging.
Previously you had sound changing when you moved one of the mod pots, which would mean the delay chip was doing something, but now not? Do you have another PT2399 you can swap into the socket to see if that got damaged when you had the regulator in backwards?
I have wired bypass and tails switches and something changed. The LED is working now (having 2.45V on positive lug), and it's changing blinking speed depending on LFO speed pot position. Still no delay at the output and pots do not affect the sound. Output is a bit louder than dry signal.
Quote from: Taylor on August 24, 2019, 12:41:53 AM
Previously you had sound changing when you moved one of the mod pots, which would mean the delay chip was doing something, but now not?
That's true. Previously I could hear sound changing, now it's not. I don't have another delay chip, but I'll get one and post here what I have. For now I'm getting the following voltages highlighting with purple what changed.
I have a bit different audio probe results from the PT2399 at 10, 14, 15 pins:
16. no sound (should be very quiet signal)
15. dry signal but louder than at the output (was just dry signal) (should be delay)
14. no sound (was quiet hum and noise) (should be loud delay with cyclic noise)
13. quiet hum and noise (should be nothing, or possibly a very quiet signal)
12. hum and noise (should be delay with hiss)
11. loud hum and noise (should be quiet delay with hiss)
10. no sound (was very quiet dry signal with hiss)
9 . dry signal with cyclic noise and hiss (cannot notice delay)
A bit different voltages on BC560:
BC560 (from the left to right)
1. 0.54V (was 0.76V)
2. 0 (was 0.25V)
3. 0
2N5089 now corresponds what slacker had.
The TL072 (non-LFO) voltages haven't changed
LFO TL072: voltages started to vary on pins 1, 4, 5 and 7 (now probably it looks good)
1. 4.5V–5.5V (was 5.08V)
2. 5.02V
3. 5.02V
4. 0.75–0.8, slightly varies periodically (was 0.79V)
5. 4.96, slightly varies around it (was 5.05V)
6. 5.02V
7. 0 which gets 4.8V from time to time (was 5.03V)
8. 8.1V
4066: having slightly different values on pins 3, 4, 6, 13 which probably are good, but I don't like what's going on on pins 8 and 9
1. 4.7V
2. 4.7V
3. 1.2V, slightly varies around (was 1.59V) (should be 0.4V)
4. 0.8V, slightly varies around (was 1.56V) (should be 0.4V)
5. 0
6. 4.3V (was 1.14V) (now ok)
7. 0
8. 2.45 (was 5.06V) (should be 9V)
9. 2.45 (was 0.75V) (should be 3V on)
10. 4.7V
11. 4.7V
12. 8.6V
13. 8.9V (was 8.6V) (should be 8.5V) (probably ok)
14. 8.9V
PT2399 is almost the same, only have little change on pins 8 (now probably ok) and 11 (not ok)
1. 5.02V
2. 2.48V
3. 0
4. 0
5. 2.98V
6. 2.48V
7. 4.54V (should be 0.5V)
8. 0.78V (was 1.12V) (should be 0.5V)
9. 2.48V
10. 2.47V
11. 0.68V (was 0.78V) (should be 2.5V)
12. 4.75V (should be 2.5V)
13. 3.92V (should be 2.5V)
14. 0.09V (should be 2.5V)
15. 2.48V
16. 2.48V
I think that I'm goind to change the delay chip. Also, I don't like what's happening with BC560 and 4066, should I also replace them?
Thanks for the help.
I've replaced BC560, 4066 and the delay chip and now everything is working as expected. Thanks everyone for the help.
Hello,
I built an Echo Base kit and I have just one issue with the LFO.
Everything works fine until i turn the LFO SPEED pot near to maximum.
Then the LFO dissapear, the LED is always bright, until I restart the pedal .
If you could help me understand why does it happen, I would be very grateful .
Thank you for your help,
Justin
There is a 27k resistor next to the TL072 on the right side of the board. If that was shorted out or the wrong value, it might act like that.
So I love the way this delay sounds but anytime I put an overdrive pedal into it it starts distorting bad. Is there a mod to fix this? Ive tried putting a green LED on pin 7 but there is a huge volume drop.
A quick question, does anyone remember which position of the waveshape pot corresponds the square / triangle setting? For example, do I remember correctly that CCW for waveshape is a triangle?
Thanks.
I've just finished up the Echo Base pcb. All seems to be working except the depth knob is changing the pitch of the repeats when the LFO SW pads are connected.
Does the depth knob behave that way normally?
I have the LFO wave shape mod also installed (it works when the LFO SW pads are disconnected)
Quote from: spilla on January 16, 2021, 11:14:14 PMI have the LFO wave shape mod also installed (it works when the LFO SW pads are disconnected)
Do you have the triangle wave on the CCW (top left) position of the pot?
The depth knob is supposed to do just that. It changes the delay time at the rate of the LFO. Changing delay time changes pitch, slow down = pitch down, and vice versa. It comes from wanting to emulate the old tape machine delays. It can also make a great "laser" synth sound when the rate and depth is up and the shape is square.
Telebiker, are you asking because you want to design the graphics for a build but haven't built it yet? I think the triangle will be CW, it's tapped off of U1A. Are you using the musicpcb schematic/build doc?
Quote from: garcho on January 17, 2021, 09:56:17 AM
The depth knob is supposed to do just that. It changes the delay time at the rate of the LFO. Changing delay time changes pitch, slow down = pitch down, and vice versa. It comes from wanting to emulate the old tape machine delays. It can also make a great "laser" synth sound when the rate and depth is up and the shape is square.
Great, thanks!
and just to clarify the lfo depth pot changes the pitch of the delay even when the modulation is turned off?
Quote from: garcho on January 17, 2021, 10:03:07 AM
Telebiker, are you asking because you want to design the graphics for a build but haven't built it yet?
No.
Quote from: garcho on January 17, 2021, 10:03:07 AMAre you using the musicpcb schematic/build doc?
Yes.
Already figured it out. While testing the PCB forgot to note which side of the waveshape pot is triangle. I have it on a CW side.
Sorry to bump the thread again
But could someone confirm/deny if the "lfo depth" pot is meant to change the pitch of the repeats when the modulation is turned off (LFO SW pads disconnected)?
Thanks!
I hope that I will be able to check this next week.
Quote from: spilla on January 22, 2021, 01:54:18 AM
Sorry to bump the thread again
But could someone confirm/deny if the "lfo depth" pot is meant to change the pitch of the repeats when the modulation is turned off (LFO SW pads disconnected)?
Thanks!
On my unit, with LFO switched off, if the Waveform's pot is set on triangle or square, or something (I don't really know for sure what is what), Depth will change the sound of the delay's repetitions in various ways.
If Waveforms is on sinusoidal (clearest and most transparent setting, I think), Depth will be audible when I turn the pot (alarm siren kind of sound), and it seems to add some depth to the delayed signal. In any case, Depth is alive and interacting particularly with Waveforms. It is welcome, in my opinion.
I contacted musicpcb and they confirm that the depth pot does change pitch of the delay when mod is off.
Quote from: eh là bas ma on January 22, 2021, 08:19:50 PM
It is welcome, in my opinion.
Yeah im really happy with how it sounds now, glad thats how its intended. I was considering leaving it this way had i found out i messed something up!
Quote from: slacker on January 25, 2012, 12:42:33 PM
Yes, assuming your capacitors are rated for more than that, it's safe to use a regulated 12 volt supply. You can use any voltage between 9 and 15 volts, over 15 volts and you will damage the CD4066.
This answer is 9 years old now.
Can someone confirm that Echo Base from 2019 or 2020 still can be safely powered with 12v, please ? It will be very useful to know.
QuoteEcho Base from 2019 or 2020
what does that mean? is there a new one? these types of threads get longer than they are useful over the years.
Quotesafely powered with 12v
Most op amps can take 12V but make sure you check the datasheet for the op amps that you're actually using in the build. A TL072 can take 36V. The `4066 can most likely take 12V, but again read up on the datasheet for the model you'll actually put in the build. These are old ICs, from the higher voltage and bipolar supply days, but more and more, they and their contemporary versions are being made for today's low power electronics.
It would destroy the PT2399 but it's getting regulated voltage off the 7805, so no worry.
Linear voltage regulators like the 7805 will be fine but the more voltage across it, the more heat to be dissipated. In this case, probably not a problem.
Don't sweat the other stuff for voltages like 9 and 12.