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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: aron on August 09, 2010, 03:26:21 AM

Title: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on August 09, 2010, 03:26:21 AM
I am pleased to announce that I have a new item in the store. It's a PT2399 controller called the Taptation written by The Tone God.
Here is the data sheet: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation.pdf (http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation.pdf)
Application note: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation_pt2399.pdf (http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation_pt2399.pdf)

The kit comes with the controller and a digital potentiometer so you can start using it right away.

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=65

Thanks to The Tone God!

Aron
Title: Re: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: petemoore on August 09, 2010, 09:11:56 AM
  This should help spice up the control factors, as well as ramp up the worm can opening rate ! Cool !
Title: Re: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on August 09, 2010, 12:55:47 PM
Very nice :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 09, 2010, 03:39:51 PM
I'm really happy with this product. With the TapTation controller you can turn any PT2399 based delay basically into a Deluxe Memory Boy all for $20. But the TapTation can be used for more then just delays. You can use it as a clock source for sequencer / Vanishing Point type effects. You know all those threads about digital clock noise ? Well TapTation solves that problem and adds the tap tempo function. TapTation can even be used to make a quick tap tempo tremolo or to replace the LFO in somethings like phase 90s. Its not a one trick pony part.

Over the next while I'll post an article on various mods to be used with the TapTation. Fun will be had. :)

I hope everyone enjoys it.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Brymus on August 09, 2010, 04:36:32 PM
Way Cool !!!
Looking forward to those write ups on more mods.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: SPAZ on August 10, 2010, 08:19:26 AM
  Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 10, 2010, 10:49:13 AM
Great!!

I already ordered the set in Aron's shop and hope to hear about your notes.

Did you create a layout for it?

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 10, 2010, 02:51:20 PM
Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?

Three tempo divisions are accessible by a single ON-OFF-ON SPDT switch which are 1/1, 1/2, 3/4 so if the input tempo is quarter notes you will get quarter, eighth, and dotted eighth. Then there is a double time input that doubles the output tempo so you get 1/2, 1/4, 3/8 which would be eight, sixteenth, and dotted sixteenth for a total of five different divisions. The double time input is sometimes handy where you don't want to tap the time in but you do want to switch between double time delays. The modulation output follows the output tempo time as well.

One of the mods I was going to publish is how to access all the divisions through various means.

People should take note that the TapTation uses a 100K pot which gives you access to the longer, but more lofi sounding, delay times over a 1000ms. If you only want the shorter better quality times from the 50K pot circuits you can connect the double time input and it should limit the range to 50K.

Also this controller accepts multiple input taps not just the two taps that most tap tempos do. TapTation will average out the time entered just like the big boys. This makes it useful for syncing to other external digital clock sources as well.

TapTation will also except either momentary or toggle switches for tempo input so if you don't have or can't get a good momentary switch you can use a normal toggle switch like a 3PDT switch.

One of the cool things is if you can you can buy a cheap delay like a Fab Echo for around $20 then buy this kit and in less then an hour's worth of work you will have nearly a Deluxe Memory Boy for around $50. Killer bang for your buck.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Brymus on August 10, 2010, 04:38:16 PM
Wow this option is a real game changer !  Tone god, how many/ what values from the selectable tempo divisions are available ?

One of the cool things is if you can you can buy a cheap delay like a Fab Echo for around $20 then buy this kit and in less then an hour's worth of work you will have nearly a Deluxe Memory Boy for around $50. Killer bang for your buck.

Andrew
Any plans to document how to do this for us "paint by numbers" DIY folks ?
That alone would be worth buying one.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mth5044 on August 10, 2010, 04:47:34 PM
From a purely consumer point of view (rather than a DIY one), this seems to have more features than the PTAP. Do you know enough about the PTAP that you could compare and contrast what your product does against the PTAP? Features, limitations, which does one thing better than the other, etc.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: phector2004 on August 10, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
I agree with Bryan, any step-by-step walkthroughs/mod schematics/tutorials?

Can I otherwise mod the Echo Base I haven't built yet to incorporate a "Taptastic Mode" switch to get dotted eighths without the hassle? Might have a look at that in the near future...


Thanks for making this, Tone God! (Diana/Andrew?)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: darwin_deathcat on August 10, 2010, 06:06:02 PM
This is really great! I have a Fab Echo that i don't use anymore, so I'd really like to see some notes on how to combine this new tap tempo control with the Fab Echo guts. Will it matter that I've already modified the fab for adjustable delay time, infinite repeats, and max wet signal? I'd obviously rehouse the thing, so I'm assuming that I'd need to figure out how to wire in a more sturdy  replacement momentary switch for the fab's little tactile bypass switch....
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 11, 2010, 04:18:22 AM
Any plans to document how to do this for us "paint by numbers" DIY folks ?
That alone would be worth buying one.

I certainly can do that but for the time being you can check out this thread for various mods for the Fab Echo.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64519.0

To use the TapTation all you would need to do to the Fab Echo is find a 5V connection, ground, and instead of the delay time pot on pin 6 wiring the TapTation in and your done.

I have tried to give as much information as I thought needed in the two app notes posted including a note for the pt2399 interface.

Can I otherwise mod the Echo Base I haven't built yet to incorporate a "Taptastic Mode" switch to get dotted eighths without the hassle? Might have a look at that in the near future...

I have not looked at the Echo Base but I would think you should be able to. All the TapTation circuit needs from the delay circuit is the power (5V), ground, and the connection to the time pin on the PT2399 (Pin 6). The rest of the circuit can remain the same.

This is really great! I have a Fab Echo that i don't use anymore, so I'd really like to see some notes on how to combine this new tap tempo control with the Fab Echo guts. Will it matter that I've already modified the fab for adjustable delay time, infinite repeats, and max wet signal? I'd obviously rehouse the thing, so I'm assuming that I'd need to figure out how to wire in a more sturdy  replacement momentary switch for the fab's little tactile bypass switch....

As mentioned above all you need is the power lines and pin 6 of the PT2399 and your good to go. All the audio remains untouched so the infinite repeat and max wet signal mods do not affect anything or need to be touched. The TapTation will replace the delay time pot but you can reuse the pot if its linear in the TapTation circuit for the delay time control.

In that Fab Echo modding thread I include a mod to force the echo to be on all the time so you can then drop a 3PDT switch in for true bypass. You can get both the TapTation and 3PDT from Aron and while your at it grab a second 3PDT switch for the tap tempo switch.

I did use a bunch of Fab Echos as the test platforms for the TapTation.

From a purely consumer point of view (rather than a DIY one), this seems to have more features than the PTAP. Do you know enough about the PTAP that you could compare and contrast what your product does against the PTAP? Features, limitations, which does one thing better than the other, etc.

I took a quick look over the PTAP. I'm going to compare to the large version of the PTAP to TapTation. There are some pros and cons for each as they have slightly different implementations.

The PTAP uses a 50K pot for a max around 600ms. The TapTation uses a 100K pot for a max around 1125ms, of course longer times will result in some fidelity loss but some may like that for its "analog-ness"

The PTAP has four time divisions: quarter, eighth, dotted eight, triplet eighth. The TapTation has five time divisions: quarter, eighth, dotted eight, sixteenth, dotted sixteenth.

The PTAP uses the delay pot to select the time division. The TapTation uses switch(es) to select the time division.

The PTAP has a single tempo output. The TapTation has two outputs one for the time entered and one with the time division applied. This allows you to see the time you entered and what the delay time is with the division. Also you can sync other logic circuits with either outputs.

The PTAP has a switching schem for switching between the manual and tap modes using the footswitch. The TapTation overrides the delay pot when a tempo is tapped in. To go back into manual mode you turn the delay pot more then 5% from the setting when the tap tempo took over. This is similar behaviour to most commercial tap tempo delays.

Its not clear if the PTAP can average multiple taps or it just uses the last two taps. The TapTation will accept two or more taps and average up to the last four taps.

Its not clear when the PTAP applies the new tempo. The TapTation applies the new tempo about one second after the last tap is entered. This prevents weird delay pitch shifting while entering multiple taps.

The PTAP has a built in switch debouncing. The TapTation debouncing is external. The reason for this is it allows the builder to decided the level / type of debouncing which can be as simple as a R/C network as in the datasheets and app notes. It also allows the TapTation to be interfaced to other logic circuits without having the debouncing interfering.

The PTAP does not have a modulation output. The TapTation has a modulation output with a period width selection feature so that you can modulate the delays using a BS170 MOSFET and use the period width control to act like the chorus / vibrato switch on the DMM. The modulation follows the tempo time with division applied. This output can also be used as a LFO for other circuits like phasers and tremolos.

The PTAP has a calibration mode. The TapTation does not.

The PTAP only accepts a momentary switch. The TapTation accepts either momentary or toggle switches like the 3PDT switches Aron sell so you can order those switches with the TapTation kit instead of having to source momentary switches else where.

The PTAP costs $16.50 with a PCB availible. The TapTation costs $20 with no PCB availible...for now.

I should also mention that all profits from the TapTation goes to Aron for this forum. Its my way of supporting the forum.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Skruffyhound on August 11, 2010, 06:17:29 AM
Really nice Andrew. Looking forward to see how this develops.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: BoxOfSnoo on August 11, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
Does the TapTation solve this problem (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg652835#msg652835) with the PTAP on the Echo Base?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mth5044 on August 11, 2010, 12:08:33 PM
Excellent, thank you Andrew.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on August 11, 2010, 03:20:25 PM
Does the TapTation solve this problem (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg652835#msg652835) with the PTAP on the Echo Base?

Have a look at page 4 of the application note, the bit about the effect of the modulation on the tempo. Basically the same thing will happen with the Echo Base, if you turn the modulation all the way down the small resistance of the transistor probably won't have a noticeable effect on things, as soon as you add modulation it will throw out the tapped tempo, but like I've said before, if you're adding any significant amount of modulation you're not really likely to be bothered about exact tempos.
What you could do is replace the transistor in the Echo Base with the mosfet arrangement from the appnote, that way with the modulation depth on minimum there is zero resistance in series with the digital pot and everything will work as planned.
I'm going to order one and try it out, it would be pretty cool to be able to switch between the original Echo Base modulation and the taptation's tap tempo modulation.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: darwin_deathcat on August 11, 2010, 03:23:57 PM
Quote
As mentioned above all you need is the power lines and pin 6 of the PT2399 and your good to go. All the audio remains untouched so the infinite repeat and max wet signal mods do not affect anything or need to be touched. The TapTation will replace the delay time pot but you can reuse the pot if its linear in the TapTation circuit for the delay time control.

In that Fab Echo modding thread I include a mod to force the echo to be on all the time so you can then drop a 3PDT switch in for true bypass. You can get both the TapTation and 3PDT from Aron and while your at it grab a second 3PDT switch for the tap tempo switch.

I did use a bunch of Fab Echos as the test platforms for the TapTation.

This is GREAT! I think I see what my next project is going to be! I have a spare box from a defunct chorus that I can use. I've got the switches, so alls I need will be the module! Thanks for this!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: dmc777 on August 11, 2010, 03:33:01 PM
Nice. Can't wait to see how this works with the Echo Base.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 12, 2010, 01:42:12 AM
Does the TapTation solve this problem (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=60662.msg652835#msg652835) with the PTAP on the Echo Base?

No. The delay going out of sync is just a the nature of the beast. To do pitch shifting you have to adjust the delay time which means you have to be off a bit each time. Those differences accumulate over time. There is no way around it unless you add an dedicated vibrato and leave the delay time untouched but that makes things more complicated and is not worth it IMHO. I must say though I never found it to be much of a problem unless using very long and multiple repeats or setting the modulation depth to some extreme setting.

What you could do is replace the transistor in the Echo Base with the mosfet arrangement from the appnote, that way with the modulation depth on minimum there is zero resistance in series with the digital pot and everything will work as planned.
I'm going to order one and try it out, it would be pretty cool to be able to switch between the original Echo Base modulation and the taptation's tap tempo modulation.

I really like the modulation the TapTation creates. A MOSFET is used for its low on resistance but I don't know if the Echo Base oscillator can drive it hard enough and accurately within the MOSFET's operating range. The TapTation gets away with this because it is an unfiltered PWM output which is a square wave that is switching the MOSFET between full on and off with the off resistance limited by the depth pot. There is no in between range to deal with in the MOSFET so you don't have to bias or match MOSFETs. By adjusting the duty cycle the ratio between on and off changes giving a lower or higher average resistance perceived by the pt2399. It makes things very simple.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on August 12, 2010, 01:42:17 PM
The TapTation gets away with this because it is an unfiltered PWM output which is a square wave that is switching the MOSFET between full on and off with the off resistance limited by the depth pot.

Yeah I realised that you were using a PWM signal after I'd posted, so what I suggested might not work. I've ordered a kit so I'll play around and  see what I can come up with. Worst case scenario you'd just have to include the mosfet and the original transistor and switch between them, be easy enough to use a dual ganged pot to control the depth of both.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 12, 2010, 03:16:09 PM
Worst case scenario you'd just have to include the mosfet and the original transistor and switch between them, be easy enough to use a dual ganged pot to control the depth of both.

Or maybe keep the depth controls separate and you can have two selectable modulation settings. ;)

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Brymus on August 12, 2010, 03:53:56 PM
@ TTG
What benefit might your taptation add to Rick's "Little Angel" chorus ?
If any.   :icon_redface:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Morocotopo on August 12, 2010, 08:21:55 PM
Great thing!

To make things clear, this is a chip, not a chip in a PCB, right? You have to incorporate it in a build / layout, right?

And it can do this:
- Replace any LFO, and add tap tempo capability with rhythmic division options

Am I right?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Brymus on August 12, 2010, 08:35:28 PM
Citing the above post  ^^^^^^^^
I was thinking along the lines of using it to replace the Littel Angel LFO and to get the modulation in time to what was desired.
Thanks for saying it better.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 13, 2010, 04:44:49 PM
To make things clear, this is a chip, not a chip in a PCB, right? You have to incorporate it in a build / layout, right?

And it can do this:
- Replace any LFO, and add tap tempo capability with rhythmic division options

Am I right?

Yes this is a stand alone IC. No PCB. If it gets popular I may make a PCB availible. I will not say it will replace ANY LFO because it depends on the spec of the original LFO. What it does provide is a triangle shaped PWM output that swings about 0.2v to 4.8v @ 5v input power supply and can sink or source about 20mA. An R/C network can smoothen out the PWM to make it analog or you can keep it PWM. The tempo divisions are applied to the PWM output and you can select the duty cycle to be half or full sweep with each tempo pulse.

I was thinking along the lines of using it to replace the Littel Angel LFO and to get the modulation in time to what was desired.

Look at the design with having pin 6 tied there nothing special the digital pot will provide so that part is out. I don't know the spec of the LFO as I haven't built it but it looks like in that design you could use the TapTation to fill that function.

Actually on my delay, based on an earlier version of the TapTation, I set the delay pot for the fastest time and play with the modulation speed which is separate from the delay time. It does make for a decent mock chorus.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 21, 2010, 12:07:10 PM
Hi Andrew,

Did you create a layout for the taptation. Perf or vero?

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 23, 2010, 04:47:10 PM
Did you create a layout for the taptation. Perf or vero?

I don't normal work with vero and when I work with perf its on the fly. I'm sure others will chip in layouts if TapTation get popular. If it does get even more popular I'll look at making PCB availible.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 24, 2010, 08:15:42 AM
Ok, I will make my own then.

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on August 24, 2010, 08:29:48 AM
I'll be building mine on vero when it arrives, I'll post the layout.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 29, 2010, 10:06:48 AM

Hi,

I created a perf board layout for the taptation. I will post it once I verified it.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 29, 2010, 03:53:27 PM
Build the taptation with my own perf board layout and I have it almost working.

I have it hooked up to an echobase now. I guess I will have to remove the delay pot from the echobase but have not done that yet.
I also have no momentary switch so it is a bit hard to check if it really works on tapping the tempo. Most of the functions seem to work as intended.
I will work on it again later and try to post the layout.

(I have to find out how to attach that to this post.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 30, 2010, 05:42:27 AM
(http://www.marcvanvugt.com/ima/taptationperf.jpg)

Here is the layout I made and for now it works. I hope it is ok if I post it. Let me know if there are any objections.
Still have to check some things.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Processaurus on August 30, 2010, 06:04:00 AM
Andrew, I didn't see it in the PDF, and was wondering what the frequency of the PWM from the triangle wave output is?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 30, 2010, 03:16:09 PM
I also have no momentary switch so it is a bit hard to check if it really works on tapping the tempo. Most of the functions seem to work as intended.

You can use a toggle footswitch, like a bypass switch, for the tap tempo by grounding pin 4.

I should also mention that the time pin is set to the fastest tempo when connected to ground and slowest when connect to Vcc. That might seem backwards to some.

Thanks for the layout! I'm sure many will enjoy it.

Andrew, I didn't see it in the PDF, and was wondering what the frequency of the PWM from the triangle wave output is?

I should have put that in. The base frequency is around 310Khz. I'll update the docs with that.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on September 01, 2010, 03:54:28 PM
Got mine today and immediately threw it on the breadboard and hooked it up to one of my Echo Bases. First impressions of it are very good, hats off to the Tone God for a nicely thought out bit of kit.

The tap tempo works reliably, with no glitches or misread taps, and that's just using a bit of wire tapped to ground.
The modulation is very nice, going from just adding a subtle waver to over the top pitch bending.

For those interested in adding this to the Echo Base I tried hooking up the modulation (pin 7 of the digital pot to the collector of the original transistor) and it works fine. With the depth on minimum the tap tempo seems to work accurately enough, so the small resistance of the transistor doesn't appear to be a problem. That was just listening to the delays whilst watching the tap tempo LED though, I haven't tried tapping in time to a beat and seeing if it stays in sync. In the event that the accuracy is affected it's easy enough to just add a switch to disconnect the modulation completely, so it's not a big deal.

Just need to find a bigger box to fit it all in now. I'm thinking switchable modulation with depth controls for each. A rotary switch to give all the tap divisions. Then bypass, mod on/off and tap tempo stomps.

 
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 04, 2010, 02:17:50 PM
I hooked up the taptation to my PT 80 now (used an echobase first) and it works really well!! Very nice control over tap tempo. Modulation works very good. The 100k pot actually gives a longer delay time to the PT80. It is very grainy with the longest delay time, but usable and with the double tempo switch you are back to the original PT 80. Rehoused the PT 80 with the taptation in a new box and it is really worth it. Well done Tonegod!!

I discovered a mistake in my perf board layout. I corrected the mistake and the corrected and verified layout is the on posted now. (a few posts back).
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 07, 2010, 11:31:51 AM
I have been playing some more with the taptation and the PT80 and I notice on louder volume that I have a ticking in time with the tap tempo.
I disassembled it as I thought it might have to do with the placement of the taptation pcb and the connections to the PT 80. Ad fas as I can tell placement is not of influence on the ticking.

I found out that if I remove the tempo indication leds that the ticking is gone. I replaced the leds with several others and also with a larger resistor added to the 1k that is on the board. This made no difference. Any ideas how I can get rid of the ticking???

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on September 07, 2010, 12:10:47 PM
I would try connecting the ground from the Taptation board directly to ground on the DC jack or battery negative and perhaps try a large capacitor between the 5 volts in to the board and ground.
You could also try using "super bright" LEDs that way you can use a really large resistor like 50K to limit the current to something really low.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 07, 2010, 12:20:44 PM
I would try connecting the ground from the Taptation board directly to ground on the DC jack or battery negative and perhaps try a large capacitor between the 5 volts in to the board and ground.
You could also try using "super bright" LEDs that way you can use a really large resistor like 50K to limit the current to something really low.

Hi Ian,

I found one super bright led and that does solve the problem when wired with a large resistor. As I only had one of those I tried the other suggestion and wired the ground of the taptation board directly to ground on the DC jack (I had it wired to the ground of the PT 80 board first). Problem solved!! Not even a large capacitor needed.

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on September 07, 2010, 04:07:20 PM
Excellent, glad it worked.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 13, 2010, 09:37:36 AM
I was checking the powersupply that I use to power the PT80 with taptation and found out ii is pushing the limits of what I have now.

I have the PT80 powered through a LT1054 (9 volt to 18 volt doubler) that can give 100ma. I power the taptation from the 5 volt rails at the PT 80 now. I know the PT 80 draws approx. 35 ma according to the schematic info.

How much would the taptation draw in this configuration with the digital pot, two indication leds for the tempo and division?

I am guessing that I am drwaing more now then the LT1054 can supply and that I would be better of setting up a seperate voltage regulator to 5 volt straight from my powersupply??

Any ideas?

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 13, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
Great work guys for the layouts and reports!

In the next few weeks I'll start posting articles the first being different ways to select tempo divisions.

How much would the taptation draw in this configuration with the digital pot, two indication leds for the tempo and division?

The TapTation controller itself pulls around 1mA. The digital pot is less then 1mA. So those two in itself do not pull much current. The tempo LEDs are the big current draws. You will have to calculate the current on those yourself based on the current limiting resistor you selected but most LED's specs top out at 20mA.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 14, 2010, 05:48:29 AM
Great work guys for the layouts and reports!

In the next few weeks I'll start posting articles the first being different ways to select tempo divisions.

How much would the taptation draw in this configuration with the digital pot, two indication leds for the tempo and division?

The TapTation controller itself pulls around 1mA. The digital pot is less then 1mA. So those two in itself do not pull much current. The tempo LEDs are the big current draws. You will have to calculate the current on those yourself based on the current limiting resistor you selected but most LED's specs top out at 20mA.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I will start by checking how much my leds draw and see if I can bring that down.

Great project to be working on and well done!!

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Scott Swartz on September 14, 2010, 04:46:38 PM
I am experimenting with coupling the Taptation and the PT-80 onto a single PCB, and hope to make this project available soon via General Guitar Gadgets. 

I have tested on the breadboard all the functional blocks I am going to use and am finishing the PCB.  It will have some very interesting features and address some issues I have seen discussed on tap tempo pedals, one in particular how to go between the tap and knob settings.

With the amount of features, pots (5), and switches (5) it will need the 1590DD enclosure.

I still use the very first PT-80 for my pedal steel rig, designed and built in early 2002, hard to believe its been that long.

Scott Swartz
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 15, 2010, 03:55:52 AM
I am experimenting with coupling the Taptation and the PT-80 onto a single PCB, and hope to make this project available soon via General Guitar Gadgets. 

I have tested on the breadboard all the functional blocks I am going to use and am finishing the PCB.  It will have some very interesting features and address some issues I have seen discussed on tap tempo pedals, one in particular how to go between the tap and knob settings.

With the amount of features, pots (5), and switches (5) it will need the 1590DD enclosure.

I still use the very first PT-80 for my pedal steel rig, designed and built in early 2002, hard to believe its been that long.

Scott Swartz

Hi Scott,

I have been using the PT80 for sevreal years on my pedalboard and it is one of my favourite delays. Great project, Thanks!

As you might have read I have been experimenting with the PT80/taptation combination a bit now and I think it would sure make a great project.

I have them both installed in a C type (119x93x56,5mm) enclosure wich is just slightly deeper then the regular BB type (119x93,5x34mm) that is mostly used by everyone. (sorry for using these enclosure names as I do not recall the regular hammond types at this moment).

My PT80 has an added effectsloop. I use 4 pots (delay time (wich is replaced by the taptation delay time), feedback, modulation depth and mix) and 4 switches (timescale, double time, pwm, effectsloop), 1 momentary tap tempo footswitch, 1 bypass footswitch and 3 leds (timescale, double tempo, bypass). I am sure that with a clever designed PCB it would fit in the BB enclosure

This way it works great and I can use most available options. I like switches for time scale and double tempo. I also considered a rotary switch for that but that would make certain time divisions harder accessible ( probably true the other way around too).
I have been playing with the idea of adding a second delay board that would have the base time going while the other board would have the time division. I guess I would need a second tatption for that but it would create a very strong delay pedal. Maybe that is something worth checking out.

I am curious how others are working with the taptation but untill now there are not many posters yet.

Thanks, Marc

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 16, 2010, 03:53:45 AM
Here you go - a vero only 17 x 10 with and without PWM also with voltage regulation.
Unverified at the moment as I am out of time but let me know how it goes. Later, au_loki

(http://i55.tinypic.com/am7in4.png)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on September 17, 2010, 09:54:16 AM
Will there be more taptation chip sets available for order in the future? It looks out of stock at the store, and I couldn't find it on tonegod's website.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 17, 2010, 04:53:46 PM
Will there be more taptation chip sets available for order in the future? It looks out of stock at the store, and I couldn't find it on tonegod's website.

Hey folks.

Sorry I've been chained to the soldering iron lately.

I sent out a shipment of TapTation controllers earlier this week. They should be in Aron's hands any day now.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on September 17, 2010, 04:57:32 PM
Oh good. I want to try adding this to my PT80.

jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 18, 2010, 10:41:03 AM
Re: Vero layout - whoops found some clangers in my layout. Will fix and post again. Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on September 18, 2010, 03:07:58 PM
Hey Guys,

I was wondering if we could get this to work with a dual pt2399 delay setup? There's two applications I had in mind. Two pt2399's in series, to get double the delay time (more cleanly than doubling the delay time pot), or to have to entirely separate delay pedals to create a "multi-head" type setup.

I was thinking that the taptation's pins 8 9 and 10 could be buffered to feed two different digital pots. This way we're controlling two p2399's at the same time.

And if you wanted to stagger the delay times, i guess you could always add a pot in series with the digital pot for one of the pt2399's to add some delay time.

So do you think the taptation chip can feed multiple delay pots if buffered properly?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on September 19, 2010, 03:35:15 AM
I think I worked out a PCB layout for etching - I don't etch, so it's not verified, I just don't know how to export this from eagle in a format someone else can etch - anyone able to point me in the right direction for that?

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 19, 2010, 06:18:58 AM
OK - my vero layout at the top should be good. 
But the bottom one should have the bottom tag on the Tempo Scale switch going to Vcc (bottom vero line) not Pin 6 of IC2 and the 100K going to Pin 13 of IC1 should be 1K. Also whack a 100K across the top two tags of the Tempo Scale switch (GND and wire off to Pin 12). I'm doing the final soldering and will let you know how it goes. Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 19, 2010, 06:23:33 AM
Just looked again and the top vero should have a 1K (not 100K) going to IC1 pin 13 - sorry about chief! Later au_loki :icon_redface:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 19, 2010, 08:53:53 AM
Just finished soldering it up and working fine. Great job TTG.
Will post corrected layout in the next few days. Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 19, 2010, 11:02:38 AM
I have a strange problem with the taptation.

I have used the perfboard layout as posted a few posts back.
The taption works but it draws around 150 ma.

The regulator I used (78L05) gets hot.

I guessed that there was something wrong in my build and checked and double checked (and again) and reflowed it.
I could not find the problem, so I made a new build with the same chipset. Same problem. It works but it draw around 150 ma.

Maybe somebody can look at my layout and see if I made a mistake that I am still not seeing??

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 19, 2010, 11:06:37 AM
(http://www.marcvanvugt.com/ima/taptationperf.jpg)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 19, 2010, 10:52:58 PM
Finished soldering up the bottom layout and getting good resistance measurements so now verified.
 
Here is the new layout with the corrections as follows:
1. IC1 Pin 13 100K resistor now 1K for both layouts
2. Tempo Scale Input switch now has bottom lug to Vcc - Bottom layout only
3. Tempo Scale Input switch now has 100K across top 2 lugs - Bottom layout only

Let me know how you go.
Later au_loki

(http://i51.tinypic.com/ejdhzl.png)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 21, 2010, 11:42:50 AM
I have a strange problem with the taptation.

I have used the perfboard layout as posted a few posts back.
The taption works but it draws around 150 ma.

The regulator I used (78L05) gets hot.

I guessed that there was something wrong in my build and checked and double checked (and again) and reflowed it.
I could not find the problem, so I made a new build with the same chipset. Same problem. It works but it draw around 150 ma.

Maybe somebody can look at my layout and see if I made a mistake that I am still not seeing??

Thanks, Marc

Bump.

It looks like my tempo scale and my double time part of the taptation is not working anymore. Led indication of both tempo clock and scale time is working.
The double tempo is stuck in double time and the time scale is stuck in its middle or fastest tempo (hard to tell from the blincking leds).

This would suggest a short form pin 11 to ground but when I remove the taptation there is no continuity from the pin 11 socket position to ground.
Is the taptation fried??

Voltage readings:

Taptation
pin 1  5.00 volt
pin 2 4.84 volt
pin 3 0.12 volt
pin 4 4.40 volt
pin 5 2.40 volt
pin 6 3.42 volt
pin 7 4.80 volt
pin 8 4.98 volt
pin 9 0.03 volt
pin 10 0.03 volt
pin 11 0.00 volt
pin 12 4.71 volt
pin 13 1.57 volt
pin 14 0.00 volt

MPC41100
pin 1 4.98 volt
pin 2 0.03 volt
pin 3 0.03 volt
pin 4 0.00 volt
pin 5 2.17 volt
pin 6 2.17 volt
pin 7 0.13 volt
pin 8 5.00 volt
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 21, 2010, 05:36:39 PM
I was wondering if we could get this to work with a dual pt2399 delay setup? There's two applications I had in mind. Two pt2399's in series, to get double the delay time (more cleanly than doubling the delay time pot), or to have to entirely separate delay pedals to create a "multi-head" type setup.

I was thinking that the taptation's pins 8 9 and 10 could be buffered to feed two different digital pots. This way we're controlling two p2399's at the same time.

And if you wanted to stagger the delay times, i guess you could always add a pot in series with the digital pot for one of the pt2399's to add some delay time.

So do you think the taptation chip can feed multiple delay pots if buffered properly?

The TapTation can drive two digital pots directly at the same time. No buffering is required. Just wiring them in parallel with exception of the connection to pin 6 of the PT2399 obviously. I don't know if the time calibration will hold up but it should...I think...maybe. :icon_redface:

The one reference that would be off is the scale tempo output. It would always be twice what the new delay time is. I suppose you can feed it into a flip flop like a 4013 to do a half division on the output.

It looks like my tempo scale and my double time part of the taptation is not working anymore. Led indication of both tempo clock and scale time is working.
The double tempo is stuck in double time and the time scale is stuck in its middle or fastest tempo (hard to tell from the blincking leds).

This would suggest a short form pin 11 to ground but when I remove the taptation there is no continuity from the pin 11 socket position to ground.
Is the taptation fried??

I'll take a look at your layout alittle later but something definetly sounds wrong when the regulator is heating up. The TapTation itself should not draw any serious amount of current. For now if you can throw the TapTation into a bread board and just wiring up the LEDs switches to see if the LEDs blink correctly. :::Fingers crossed:::

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 21, 2010, 06:00:08 PM


It looks like my tempo scale and my double time part of the taptation is not working anymore. Led indication of both tempo clock and scale time is working.
The double tempo is stuck in double time and the time scale is stuck in its middle or fastest tempo (hard to tell from the blincking leds).

This would suggest a short form pin 11 to ground but when I remove the taptation there is no continuity from the pin 11 socket position to ground.
Is the taptation fried??

I'll take a look at your layout alittle later but something definetly sounds wrong when the regulator is heating up. The TapTation itself should not draw any serious amount of current. For now if you can throw the TapTation into a bread board and just wiring up the LEDs switches to see if the LEDs blink correctly. :::Fingers crossed:::

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

What a pity is it not. It was working really well ???


I have delaytime control (tap tempo and the delaytime pot on the taptation). Mod depth and PWM are working.

The leds blink even in the setup now.
Clock tempo led blinks. Scale division leds blinks.

There is no reaction to the double time switch (that is all the time as if it is connected to ground)
There is no reaction to the time scale switch.

This is with connection to the PT 80 and also separate from the PT 80.

I will try it in a breadboard tomorrow. You are suggesting to only wire the switches and the leds?? ( and power of course)

Your documentation says to connect pin5/6 to pin 6 of the PT 2399.

In the PT 80 the delay time  pot is connected to pin 6 through a 1k resistor. You leave that out? If you take out the delay pot out of the PT 80 the PT2399 side start drawing more current.
Could it be that the taptation was not supplying the resistance to ground that the deal time pot in the PT 80 normally is supplying and therefor creating a too big a current draw??

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 22, 2010, 12:04:28 PM

I'll take a look at your layout alittle later but something definetly sounds wrong when the regulator is heating up. The TapTation itself should not draw any serious amount of current. For now if you can throw the TapTation into a bread board and just wiring up the LEDs switches to see if the LEDs blink correctly. :::Fingers crossed:::

Andrew

I Andrew,

I did put the taptation on a breadboard with a 78L05.
The 0.1 cap from pin 1 to pin 14. 
The leds on pin 3 and 5 with a 1k resistor.
On pin 12 the time scale switch (with 100k from pin 12 to ground) to centre lug and sides to ground and vcc.
On pin 11 the double time switch to ground.

Leds blink. Time scale blinks in 3 to 1 to the tempo clock. Switches have no effect.

I measure a current draw of 140 ma.

Seems like the taptation is working but the timescale and double tempo part is stuck.
What do you think? fried?



I have a consideration about what caused it?
At the same time that this happened I started having a problem with my PT80.
It started to draw too much current as well. I replaced caps in the PT80 and checked and exchanged the parts (other PT 2399, other Ne 570 etc.). No difference. Then I realised that the delaypot was not connected as it had been replaced by the taptation. I reconnected the delay time pot and voila... everything was working again as normal. This makes me think that the PT2399 does not like that the resistance is removed created by the delaytime pot (and the 1k in series with it) I know that the digital pot should take over that reisistance but there is no 1k in series with it if it goed directly to pin 6. Could that have caused the problem with the taptation??

The taptation documentation says that the taptation goes directly to pin 6 of the PT2399 and replaces the existing delay pot.

Any suggestions what I can do??

Thanks, Marc


Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on September 22, 2010, 12:54:37 PM

The TapTation can drive two digital pots directly at the same time. No buffering is required. Just wiring them in parallel with exception of the connection to pin 6 of the PT2399 obviously. I don't know if the time calibration will hold up but it should...I think...maybe. :icon_redface:

The one reference that would be off is the scale tempo output. It would always be twice what the new delay time is. I suppose you can feed it into a flip flop like a 4013 to do a half division on the output.


That was why i suggested the buffers, with high enough input impedances so as to not draw current from the taptation. I guess I can sacrifice the tempo scale...

But my main concern is if I cascade two pt2399's...that would effectively double the delay time, correct? So we'd effectively want the tempo of the taptation to be doubled, right? So if the double time works, we'll be golden...maybe? Do I have it right, or do we actually want to halve the tempo. (Sorry, brainfarting).
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on September 22, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
The delay will be twice as long as whatever division you have the taptation set to, so sixteenths will be eighths, eighths will be quarters etc. So if you use the double time settings the eighth setting will give a delay the same length as what you tap, this will make the maximum delay time from both chips the same as using one chip, but possibly with better sound quality.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on September 22, 2010, 02:08:29 PM
The delay will be twice as long as whatever division you have the taptation set to, so sixteenths will be eighths, eighths will be quarters etc. So if you use the double time settings the eighth setting will give a delay the same length as what you tap, this will make the maximum delay time from both chips the same as using one chip, but possibly with better sound quality.

Yep! That's the idea!

I mean, i COULD be crazy, get two taptations and control them with a non-latched dpst, and use FOUR pt2399's....but I haven't got the money for that....

I think i'll just test 1 chip, then 2.

But Andrew, since the tempo scale setting MIGHT be compromised by driving two pots, is the doubletime going to be compromised as well?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on September 23, 2010, 01:37:52 AM

Hey folks.

Sorry I've been chained to the soldering iron lately.

I sent out a shipment of TapTation controllers earlier this week. They should be in Aron's hands any day now.

Andrew

I've been watching for store updates but nada so far. Any idea when these will be available for order? Also, have you packaged the digital pot or will that a separate purchase?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 23, 2010, 03:40:06 AM
Leds blink. Time scale blinks in 3 to 1 to the tempo clock. Switches have no effect.

I measure a current draw of 140 ma.

Seems like the taptation is working but the timescale and double tempo part is stuck.
What do you think? fried?

I'm beginning to think so. The pins of the controller have internal diode protection but its only good to a certain point above the power pins. If you put too much voltage or current the diode(s) might blow. Disconnect all the inputs and outputs with exception to the power supply and measure the current. If its still high then I would say something internal has gone. If not then connect one part at a time till you find a current jump. That should tell you what pin is gone.

I have a consideration about what caused it?
At the same time that this happened I started having a problem with my PT80.
It started to draw too much current as well. I replaced caps in the PT80 and checked and exchanged the parts (other PT 2399, other Ne 570 etc.). No difference. Then I realised that the delaypot was not connected as it had been replaced by the taptation. I reconnected the delay time pot and voila... everything was working again as normal. This makes me think that the PT2399 does not like that the resistance is removed created by the delaytime pot (and the 1k in series with it) I know that the digital pot should take over that reisistance but there is no 1k in series with it if it goed directly to pin 6. Could that have caused the problem with the taptation??

Interesting theory but there should be little reason how a surge would have trickled back to the controller with the digital pot in between. From my testing I didn't see much current draw from the PT2399 pin 6 so it shouldn't be an issue. The digital pot actually has some internal resistance (about 100ohms) even when maxed out which replaces the need for a resistor. I don't believe this caused the problem. Try testing out what I suggested above so we can get a better picture of what maybe happening.

But Andrew, since the tempo scale setting MIGHT be compromised by driving two pots, is the doubletime going to be compromised as well?

Slacker is right. The double time control sets both the scale time output and the digital pot so you can't compensate the double PT2399 delay time with that function. It was originally intended to allow people to use the delay in its normal 50K range without having to buy a new digital pot. It also becomes handy for those who may want to double the delays under certain performance situations. I couldn't guarantee accuracy when doubling the PT2399s with this setup. Sorry.

I didn't want to step in as it was another product but now I noticed in the other thread the PTAP is no longer being offered. If the demand is great enough I can create a similar dual PT2399 version fairly easily. Right now we are still testing out the demand for the single version.

I've been watching for store updates but nada so far. Any idea when these will be available for order? Also, have you packaged the digital pot or will that a separate purchase?

Aron has them now. I think hes just waiting for the digital pots to make the kits. The digital pots are included with the TapTation so you just order the kit and are ready to go.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on September 23, 2010, 03:56:47 AM

Slacker is right. The double time control sets both the scale time output and the digital pot so you can't compensate the double PT2399 delay time with that function. It was originally intended to allow people to use the delay in its normal 50K range without having to buy a new digital pot. It also becomes handy for those who may want to double the delays under certain performance situations. I couldn't guarantee accuracy when doubling the PT2399s with this setup. Sorry.

I didn't want to step in as it was another product but now I noticed in the other thread the PTAP is no longer being offered. If the demand is great enough I can create a similar dual PT2399 version fairly easily. Right now we are still testing out the demand for the single version.


I would definitely like to try building a dual pt2399 delay, so I guess I should help in developing that project. Step one...buy a bunch of pt2399's and get to work! Haha. I'll definitely get started soon and see how the echobase handles 2 pt2399's. If it sounds decent, I'll see if the taptation will be able to drive two digital pots nicely.

But if people are going to chip in votes for a dual taptation...count me in!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 23, 2010, 04:07:09 AM
Hi Andrew,

I did what you suggested.

Taptation with only the 5 volt powersupply draws 129 ma. Adding a part (switching the powersupply in and out every time) changed nothing  :icon_cry:

Could you please look over my layout ( the one I posted a few posts back), it would be nice to know what went wrong before I try a new one. I will order a new set today.

As I said before the taptation still works in sending delay time. Can I assume from this that the digital pot is still ok?

I understand what you are saying about my suggestion abou what might have happened. It still leaves me with no idea why I had both the PT80 and the Taptation work really well together and then stop working.
It would be nice to be able to sort that out before I try a new chipset.

Thanks for reacting so fast.

regards, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on September 23, 2010, 04:03:21 PM

I didn't want to step in as it was another product but now I noticed in the other thread the PTAP is no longer being offered. If the demand is great enough I can create a similar dual PT2399 version fairly easily. Right now we are still testing out the demand for the single version.

I've been watching for store updates but nada so far. Any idea when these will be available for order? Also, have you packaged the digital pot or will that a separate purchase?

Aron has them now. I think hes just waiting for the digital pots to make the kits. The digital pots are included with the TapTation so you just order the kit and are ready to go.

Andrew

My application is a stereo dual delay (series/parallel/ping pong), so I would also want a fully dual compatible version of the taptation. In the meantime, I will purchase the current version for testing. Thanks for the update on store availability.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on September 27, 2010, 02:42:19 AM
Hi Andrew,

I did what you suggested.

Taptation with only the 5 volt powersupply draws 129 ma. Adding a part (switching the powersupply in and out every time) changed nothing  :icon_cry:

Could you please look over my layout ( the one I posted a few posts back), it would be nice to know what went wrong before I try a new one. I will order a new set today.

As I said before the taptation still works in sending delay time. Can I assume from this that the digital pot is still ok?

I understand what you are saying about my suggestion abou what might have happened. It still leaves me with no idea why I had both the PT80 and the Taptation work really well together and then stop working.
It would be nice to be able to sort that out before I try a new chipset.

Thanks for reacting so fast.

regards, Marc

Bump
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on September 29, 2010, 04:29:13 AM
Hidee ho there - just an update that my vero layout works ok with a stock standard Rebote.
Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on October 02, 2010, 02:54:57 PM
Back in store.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 03, 2010, 06:20:04 AM
Would it be possible to drive a second PT2399 that will only take the time from the tempo clock while the other PT2399 will change according to the double tempo and tempo scale?
Could I use the tempo clock out to drive a digital pot to that second PT2399.

In that way I would have a delay on the tempo and a second on whatever scale division I choose.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 03, 2010, 06:21:12 AM
Would it be possible to drive a second PT2399 that will only take the time from the tempo clock while the other PT2399 (hooked up to the digital pot at pins 8/9/10) will change according to the double tempo and tempo scale?
Could I use the tempo clock out to drive a second digital pot to that second PT2399.

In that way I would have a delay on the tempo and a second on whatever scale division I choose.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on October 07, 2010, 12:41:22 AM
Would it be possible to drive a second PT2399 that will only take the time from the tempo clock while the other PT2399 will change according to the double tempo and tempo scale?
Could I use the tempo clock out to drive a digital pot to that second PT2399.

In that way I would have a delay on the tempo and a second on whatever scale division I choose.

Marc

The interface between the controller and the digipot is a digital data communication protocol and not simply an analog pulse signal. One controller could connect to two digipots wired in parallel, and both digipots would receive the same interface command correctly and set to the same resistance value. To have different resistance values (e.g. different subdivisions), you'd need a separate taptation controller for each digipot. I guess you could add a time pot in series with one of the digipots and dial in the second tempo by hand/ear.

One controller can connect to two digipots and command different resistance values, using the communication protocol (different command words for each pot). This might allow for a single controller to run a dual delay setup with different tempos/subdivisions for each delay. However this would require a code change. Also, I'm not sure if there is enough input capability to select different tempo subdivisions for two delays.

If this was possible, I'd want to ship my chip back to TTG and have him reprogram it for dual. Unless a controller with more I/O options is required for dual. Otherwise, we're back to the two controllers, two digipots.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 07, 2010, 04:05:42 AM


The interface between the controller and the digipot is a digital data communication protocol and not simply an analog pulse signal. One controller could connect to two digipots wired in parallel, and both digipots would receive the same interface command correctly and set to the same resistance value. To have different resistance values (e.g. different subdivisions), you'd need a separate taptation controller for each digipot. I guess you could add a time pot in series with one of the digipots and dial in the second tempo by hand/ear.

One controller can connect to two digipots and command different resistance values, using the communication protocol (different command words for each pot). This might allow for a single controller to run a dual delay setup with different tempos/subdivisions for each delay. However this would require a code change. Also, I'm not sure if there is enough input capability to select different tempo subdivisions for two delays.

If this was possible, I'd want to ship my chip back to TTG and have him reprogram it for dual. Unless a controller with more I/O options is required for dual. Otherwise, we're back to the two controllers, two digipots.

Hi Beo,

Thanks for clarifying this. I suspected something like this but was not sure.

Let's see what come up when this evolves.

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on October 08, 2010, 05:01:23 AM
Hey one funky thing would be to get one 100K digital pot (mcp41100) and one 50K digital pot (mcp41050) and run the signal to both. I would be interested in hearing how it goes. Later, au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 09, 2010, 03:27:21 AM
Hi Andrew,

I did what you suggested.

Taptation with only the 5 volt powersupply draws 129 ma. Adding a part (switching the powersupply in and out every time) changed nothing  :icon_cry:

Could you please look over my layout ( the one I posted a few posts back), it would be nice to know what went wrong before I try a new one. I will order a new set today.

As I said before the taptation still works in sending delay time. Can I assume from this that the digital pot is still ok?

I understand what you are saying about my suggestion abou what might have happened. It still leaves me with no idea why I had both the PT80 and the Taptation work really well together and then stop working.
It would be nice to be able to sort that out before I try a new chipset.

Thanks for reacting so fast.

regards, Marc

I received a new chipset this week from Aron. (his packages always arrive within just two days!! This is across two oceans!) I installed it in my layout after triple checking it again. The taptation works fine now on itself. Now I have to see if the combination with my PT80 will hold up this time.
I still wonder what went wrong with my first set.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 09, 2010, 03:45:41 AM
Sorry for being slow folks.

gitaar0: I'll look over your layout in the next day or so.

For those asking about a dual pot setup. I don't have a problem offering a dual setup if there is enough demand. I would probably make it so it ran off two of the 8pin single pots instead of one of the dual 14pin IC. Easier to stock the parts for both versions then and make for easier board layouts. Some features would have to be sacrificed though to make room for the needed I/O. It would  be alittle while as there is something else in the pipeline for DIYers.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 09, 2010, 03:54:36 AM
Sorry for being slow folks.

gitaar0: I'll look over your layout in the next day or so.

For those asking about a dual pot setup. I don't have a problem offering a dual setup if there is enough demand. I would probably make it so it ran off two of the 8pin single pots instead of one of the dual 14pin IC. Easier to stock the parts for both versions then and make for easier board layouts. Some features would have to be sacrificed though to make room for the needed I/O. It would  be alittle while as there is something else in the pipeline for DIYers.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

No problem. I am glad you can get a look at it to see what might have gone wrong.

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Galego on October 09, 2010, 04:59:55 AM
One controller can connect to two digipots and command different resistance values, using the communication protocol (different command words for each pot). This might allow for a single controller to run a dual delay setup with different tempos/subdivisions for each delay. However this would require a code change. Also, I'm not sure if there is enough input capability to select different tempo subdivisions for two delays.

If this was possible, I'd want to ship my chip back to TTG and have him reprogram it for dual. Unless a controller with more I/O options is required for dual. Otherwise, we're back to the two controllers, two digipots.

The easiest way to have two different values on both digital pots, would be to use a MCP42100. You'd still only connect to one digipot (dual), the only difference would be in the programming.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: tigert10 on October 09, 2010, 12:48:11 PM
I was stoked to see a new Tap Tempo controller being developed.  I had a project designed on paper for a PTAP2 but then I guess they are not available any more. 

What I would like to do is in essence build two PT-80 delays in one housing.  The delays will be independent from one another so that I could say have dotted eighth delay on one and quarter notes on the other.  A simple footswitch then selects which side of the delay is being heard (only one side at a time) BUT I would like the tap tempo to control the delay tempo for each side without having to re-tap the tempo when I switch from one side to the other. 

The PTAP2 had this capability (to control two separate PT2399's).  What about the Taptation in this setup?  Is there any hope for my dual delay project?  Please give me some hope  ???

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on October 09, 2010, 02:12:19 PM
The PT80 I have I couldn't make work with the PTAP by the way...

I think you can do that with the Taptation, take a look at the datasheets provided. If you can understand those, you can figure out how to make it work. I myself and working out how to make a dual PT2399 circuit, only instead of two seperate delays like you, I want them in series for longer delay times. I want to use the Taptation to control the tap tempo for the longer delay.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: tigert10 on October 09, 2010, 02:54:59 PM
Thanks for your reply, in my Dual Delay setup, after reading the data sheets on the TapTation, it looks like the only way for me to get two independent delays running off of a single tap tempo switch is to use two TapTations and two digital pots running off of one tempo clock switch?  Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks for helping us average (in over our heads) Do-it-your-selfers out!!!!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 10, 2010, 07:22:06 PM
The easiest way to have two different values on both digital pots, would be to use a MCP42100. You'd still only connect to one digipot (dual), the only difference would be in the programming.

Yes I could do this but as I mentioned earlier I would probably stick with the single version. That way both versions would use the same parts (easier to stock) and the layout would be easier as the two individual pots can be placed close to the PT2399s which is important to keep accuracy.

I was stoked to see a new Tap Tempo controller being developed.  I had a project designed on paper for a PTAP2 but then I guess they are not available any more. 

What I would like to do is in essence build two PT-80 delays in one housing.  The delays will be independent from one another so that I could say have dotted eighth delay on one and quarter notes on the other.  A simple footswitch then selects which side of the delay is being heard (only one side at a time) BUT I would like the tap tempo to control the delay tempo for each side without having to re-tap the tempo when I switch from one side to the other. 

The PTAP2 had this capability (to control two separate PT2399's).  What about the Taptation in this setup?  Is there any hope for my dual delay project?  Please give me some hope  ???

I have no problem stepping in and take over this particular DIY need that being a dual PT2399 controller.

My thinking right now is to keep the design in a 14pin IC is I would have to drop a few features. I think the modulation and double time functions would be dropped. I can then add a second time control pot so each delay can have it's own independent time control. I would also add a separate time scale switch for the second pot so if you want you can to do multi-tap style delays setting one for quarter and the other to eighth for example when used with the tap tempo function. If I drop one of the tempo LEDs, say the tempo LED, I can add a switch input to select serial or parallel modes so the two PT2399 can be cascaded for longer times or run in parallel for multi-tap.

Just a few thoughts.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: tigert10 on October 11, 2010, 02:57:54 PM
Andrew, you just made my day!  Thanks for entertaining the idea of the "Taptation Duo" (dual pt2399 controller).  I completely agree that in this dual setup the first thing to go would be the modulation control and the double time control (these can be added by a builder if they want later).  It would be genius to add the functionality to use it in serial or parallel based on the needs of the design.  Be assured that I am eagerly awaiting news on this great idea!  Maybe an early Christmas present?  One can only hope  ;D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Skruffyhound on October 11, 2010, 03:32:58 PM
This is starting to sound very interesting :D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 16, 2010, 08:28:51 AM
I have a setup now with two taptations in parallel.
This way I like to drive two pt2399's in parallel to simulate a multihead delay.

What would be the best way to set the tap tempo of both taptations with one switch?

1) I am controlling  the tap tempo now from both taptations with a dual momentary switch.
Setting a tempo works fine. As soon as I use the tempo scale or double tempo the base tempo of the two goes out of sync. So this is not reliable.

2) Can I use the tempo clock output of the first taptation (pin 3) to drive the tempo clock of second taptation (pin 2) ? If so can I just connect them form the 1K resitor at pin 3 (taptation 1) to where the tap tempo switch is on taptation 2??

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Galego on October 16, 2010, 10:36:28 AM
One thing that might be useful. I've tried to connect the 3 wires that go from the controller to the digital pot, also to another digital pot, and it works just fine.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 22, 2010, 04:28:36 PM
I have been asked this a few time in private but I'll mention it now. The TapTation can drive multiple digital pots in parallel without the need for extra logic. Just wire up the other pot digital connections in parallel with with the other pot. You can use the output of one TapTation to set another TapTation but you have to come up with a pulse feed switching arrangement to do that.

Remember there is also the issue of the internal clocks in the PT2399 floating around. They have accuracy issues too that the TapTation cannot compensate for.

Just an idea for a quick hack-ish multi-tap setup. Wiring the digital pots in parallel and put mechanical pot in series with one of the digital pots to ground, like the modulation MOSFET does, then adjust that pot to put that delay slightly out of sync with the other delay. Not the greatest but easy to do.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on October 23, 2010, 01:13:21 PM
what other mosfet can i use besides the bs170? i know the 2n7000 is a popular choice but i have neither. any other choices? jfet? fet? i have some random trannys from boss pedals...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 23, 2010, 06:27:06 PM
what other mosfet can i use besides the bs170? i know the 2n7000 is a popular choice but i have neither. any other choices? jfet? fet? i have some random trannys from boss pedals...

The 2N7000 should work as well. Basically any transistor that has a low on resistance and can be driven by the 5v logic should work. I recommended the BS170 because its popular and if people didn't have any they could order some with the TapTation from Aron.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on October 23, 2010, 07:57:44 PM
any other choices? i don't have either of those... does it have to be a mosfet?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on October 23, 2010, 08:10:29 PM
Is it me, or is this no longer available in Aron's store?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 24, 2010, 05:48:30 AM
You can use the output of one TapTation to set another TapTation but you have to come up with a pulse feed switching arrangement to do that.


So this is out of my scope of knowledge. Anyone willing to school me on this and help me set something like that up?

Thanks, Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MoltenVoltage on October 24, 2010, 05:31:02 PM
I've taken a look at your TapTation PT2399 application note and see that you say the circuit design has an average accuracy of 5ms using a MCP41100 digipot.

This seems impossible given that the 100K ohm MCP41100 digipot has a typical resistance tolerance of +/- 30%.

I understand how you arrived at the 5ms value - dividing the 257 step resolution by the device's target resistance, but unfortunately digipots are extremely variable in their actual resistance and can be expected to have a nearly 30% error.

With the PT2399, a 30% error can amount to an enormous error in accuracy.

For example, at 27,600 ohms, the PT2399 datasheet calls for a 342ms delay time.

70% of that value is 19,320 ohms.

Even, very conservatively, at the next value down on the datasheet (21300 ohms), the stated delay time is 273 ms, with a resulting error of 69ms.

Of course this error is even more dramatic when you get up around 100K ohms (> 1 second of delay time) where you can expect an error of over 150ms!


Have you come up with any way to calibrate the output resistance or otherwise account for this typically huge tolerance error?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on October 24, 2010, 07:35:35 PM
I've taken a look at your TapTation PT2399 application note and see that you say the circuit design has an average accuracy of 5ms using a MCP41100 digipot.

This seems impossible given that the 100K ohm MCP41100 digipot has a typical resistance tolerance of +/- 30%.

I understand how you arrived at the 5ms value - dividing the 257 step resolution by the device's target resistance, but unfortunately digipots are extremely variable in their actual resistance and can be expected to have a nearly 30% error.

With the PT2399, a 30% error can amount to an enormous error in accuracy.

For example, at 27,600 ohms, the PT2399 datasheet calls for a 342ms delay time.

70% of that value is 19,320 ohms.

Even, very conservatively, at the next value down on the datasheet (21300 ohms), the stated delay time is 273 ms, with a resulting error of 69ms.

Of course this error is even more dramatic when you get up around 100K ohms (> 1 second of delay time) where you can expect an error of over 150ms!


Have you come up with any way to calibrate the output resistance or otherwise account for this typically huge tolerance error?


sounds like a good pm...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Kindly Killer on October 24, 2010, 09:54:03 PM
I bought a couple Taptation chips and I just started hacking away at a Fab Echo. I hotwired the pedal to be always on b/c my pedalboards have loopers. Once I removed the actuator, lever, and onboard switch, there is lots of room in the enclosure so I am going to try to jam everything in there.  Sooooo.....

What would be a good choice for a SMALL 0.1uF cap? There are many on this board and if I use the giant poly film caps I have it won't fit.

I have a bag of momentary DPDT switches I got to build controllers for digital amps and effects, but they might not be the best thing for this. I am replacing the actuator from the original pedal - the shaft that goes thru the spring under the black foot pad - with the tap tempo switch. What would be a good choice here? I want something SMALL and QUIET. I don't want a loud click and I don't want to take up a lot of space. The kind that comes to mind is what they have at Radio Shack, but a lot of components I get from there give me problems.

BTW I get 99% of my stuff from either Small Bear or Mouser if you have part numbers or links.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MoltenVoltage on October 24, 2010, 10:37:58 PM
I've taken a look at your TapTation PT2399 application note and see that you say the circuit design has an average accuracy of 5ms using a MCP41100 digipot.

This seems impossible given that the 100K ohm MCP41100 digipot has a typical resistance tolerance of +/- 30%.

I understand how you arrived at the 5ms value - dividing the 257 step resolution by the device's target resistance, but unfortunately digipots are extremely variable in their actual resistance and can be expected to have a nearly 30% error.

With the PT2399, a 30% error can amount to an enormous error in accuracy.

For example, at 27,600 ohms, the PT2399 datasheet calls for a 342ms delay time.

70% of that value is 19,320 ohms.

Even, very conservatively, at the next value down on the datasheet (21300 ohms), the stated delay time is 273 ms, with a resulting error of 69ms.

Of course this error is even more dramatic when you get up around 100K ohms (> 1 second of delay time) where you can expect an error of over 150ms!


Have you come up with any way to calibrate the output resistance or otherwise account for this typically huge tolerance error?


sounds like a good pm...

I think the chances of a solution are a little better with 19,000+ brains rather than 2!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on October 24, 2010, 10:38:52 PM
i put this on the rebote 2.5 tonight. i omitted the pmw speed and the double time switch. i also used a 2n3904 (i think) and it works great. if you tap in a time and turn the delay pot, it freaks the microcontroller out though. the ratio switch is handy. i managed to cram the rebote with loop, loop on/off switch, modulation knob, ratio switch, and tap switch all in a 1590bb. i'll post a pic in the morning.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on October 24, 2010, 10:42:51 PM


sounds like a good pm...

I think the chances of a solution are a little better with 19,000+ brains rather than 2!

didn't mean to sound harsh, your comment came across as more of a criticism than a proposed issue to be solved by the masses. didn't mean to ruffle any feathers
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MoltenVoltage on October 24, 2010, 11:21:58 PM
Its a very real problem and I'm currently looking for a solution.

For the 100K digipots, they are often around 70K.

Scaling that down to 50K is relatively easy with a resistor in parallel, so the shorter delay time accuracy can be solved with a cermet pot and a multimeter.

The problem is the Microchip digipots only go up to 100K, and, being a programmer and not an EE, I don't know that its possible to "scale up" a pot, (i.e. take it from 70K to 100K).

A series resistor won't do it because your fast delay accuracy goes way off with a 30K resistor in series.

I've also read the Microchip app notes and they don't provide any help.

Maybe 2 100K digipots in series with a parallel resistor?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MoltenVoltage on October 26, 2010, 12:03:20 AM
Rather than hijack this thread (sorry!), I started a new one to try to solve the problem of accurate digital control of the PT2399 here:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87813.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87813.0)

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on October 30, 2010, 04:11:36 AM
You can use the output of one TapTation to set another TapTation but you have to come up with a pulse feed switching arrangement to do that.


So this is out of my scope of knowledge. Anyone willing to school me on this and help me set something like that up?

Thanks, Marc
Bump
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on October 30, 2010, 05:59:57 AM
I think what he means is that you can't just hook the output of one up to the tempo input of the other. If you do this the second one won't change tempo because it needs a gap between pulses of at least the maximum tempo time before it changes (from page 5 of the data sheet).
What you need to do is wait until the first one has changed to the new tempo, then send a couple of pulses from it to the second one. Shouldn't be too hard to do this, I'll have a think about it.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on November 12, 2010, 01:55:44 PM
Any updates on this? Would love to order me a few to put in my Echo Bases.
Will adding a parallel resistor to the pot to make it 50K solve the accuracy problem? I don't need the longer delay times, the 50K standard pot value will do it for me.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on November 13, 2010, 05:23:38 AM
No, if you have a problem with accuracy, putting a resistor in parallel with the pot won't solve it. You could use a resistor to make it 50k when it was set to maximum resistance, but at lower settings it would still be wrong.

I'd buy one and give it a try before worrying about an problem that might not exist, I admit I've only got one but it works fine. The Tone God is a good guy, I'm sure if it turns out that the product doesn't do the job it's supposed to then he will be happy to sort the problem out.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on November 13, 2010, 10:19:15 AM
I'd love to try it, but they're not in the store anymore.

Anyways, why would there be a problem with the pot if you tap in the tempo with the switch? Or am I missing something here?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on November 15, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
i used the vero layout and my subdivisions don't match up with the tapped tempo. i didn't add the dbl time switch. i also didn't add the led for the scaled tempo. would either of those matter? this is for a rebote. do i need to disconnect the 1k from pin6 of the 2399 on the rebote? thanks
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on November 15, 2010, 03:44:07 PM
It seems to be on the faster tapped speeds in the dotted eighth position. It just doesn't match up. Repeats are set pretty low & no modulation. Could the 100k to ground on the tempo scale switch be changed to a different value to make it more accurate?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Skreddy on November 18, 2010, 12:20:27 PM
Maybe v2 needs a calibration mode like PTAP  ???  Sounds like this is the only thing its missing, unless it's adapted to use a precision digital resistor instead.  I'm excited about the PWM modulation for phase-shifter application with a double-speed switch.  I wouldn't even care about the tap-tempo part of it if I could just use a pot instead to set the speed and have the 2x speed option with a separate footswitch.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on November 19, 2010, 01:44:04 AM
i used the vero layout and my subdivisions don't match up with the tapped tempo. i didn't add the dbl time switch. i also didn't add the led for the scaled tempo. would either of those matter? this is for a rebote. do i need to disconnect the 1k from pin6 of the 2399 on the rebote? thanks

Hey there - I built the vero too (funny that!) and did find an issue with timing as well.
One thing you will need to do is drop off the 1k resistor as it will "add" onto the digital pot resistance.
Also remember that the 'double time' switch will bring the digital pot resistance from a 'max' of 100k to a 'max' of 50k.
Remember that the 'double time' switch will also result in the 'tempo scale output' LED run at double the speed. (I have a MCP41050 waiting to be put in).

One thing I have been meaning to do is set it up in dotted eighth mode and run the output of the 'tempo scale output' to a transistor to actually give me a dotted eighth input to my digital delay pedal.
There's something to report back on later.

Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on November 19, 2010, 02:20:33 AM
Sorry for the late replies. I'll try to cover what I can here.

The good news is TapTation will be back in the store shortly. Aron and I have worked something out that should remedy the shortage problems we have been having.

The +/-30% accuracy on the digital pots: One has to learn the politics involved in the way technical datasheets are written. The only specs that a company is held to with datasheets are the specs that they guarantee. You basically have to read in between the lines for the rest. They obviously do not want to guarantee the resistance accuracy so they quote a huge number to cover themselves of liability. I have worked with alot of digital pots and I have never seen one vary by 30%.

The 5% accuracy: This is the max variation of delay time between the positions of the digital pot. When a time is tapped in the TapTation will set the pot to the closest position to the that time under ideal conditions. Thus the largest gap between time entered and delay time will be the 5%.

Now I say "ideal conditions". There is alot that can make the circumstances less the ideal and most of them the TapTation itself cannot deal with. Variation in the Pt2399's clock, temperature stability, power supply drift, circuit layout, etc. will all contribute to the accuracy issue. Lets face facts about the PT23* series, it was never meant to be accurate. It is an IC family that aims to make it cheap and easy for manufactures to add audio delay be it toys, karaoke machines, and other cheap devices. We just happen to be able to use it of our delay needs and there is nothing wrong with that as it is cheap and easy to use which are important factors for DIY needs. They also IMHO sounds fairly good but to expect any level accuracy out these ICs is quite frankly unrealistic.

I do have some theories in how to make the TapTation more accurate but some of those ideas might end up creating more bulky circuits increase cost and error for the DIYer. If you need that kind of accuracy which would require more circuitry you might as well switch to a different technology. The TapTation is a "best shot" added feature for a device that was never meant to be accurate. Its fairly simple and fairly accurate as my testing showed. Mind you who really needs that kind of accuracy ? Its not like the note will ring long enough for the time discrepancy to matter.

i used the vero layout and my subdivisions don't match up with the tapped tempo. i didn't add the dbl time switch. i also didn't add the led for the scaled tempo. would either of those matter? this is for a rebote. do i need to disconnect the 1k from pin6 of the 2399 on the rebote? thanks

Yes remove the 1K. It would throw off the calibration.

I do have to stress that the TapTation is only setup for the 100K digital pot. Replacing it with the 50K will throw all the calibration off.

A calibration mode...hmmm. What would I be compensating against with a calibration mode ? The variation in the PT2399 ? The circuit layout ? I would have to do more testing to see how adjusting the time to resistance would affect the internal calibration that is already in place. I'll look into it later.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MoltenVoltage on November 19, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
I received a shipment of ten 100K digipots (MCP4151) that are all around 75K, so a large variance can't be that uncommon.

Feel free to use the self-calibration technique I came up with here:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87813.0

The system self-calibrates each time you power up so you can use 50K, 100K, or even a couple of digipots in series.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: R.G. on November 19, 2010, 12:27:44 PM
At the risk of being repetitive, long term accuracy is the Achilles heel of any continuously running tap tempo LFO.

It's different for delays, where the inaccuracy will always be for only a few cycles of time delay, and restart on each note.

This is a fundamental difference in tap tempos.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: bonkdav on November 23, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
I read through this and I didn't see any posts about phasers, flanges, or trems.  I do not have the ICs right now but I am very interested in expanding the use of this circuit to more applications. If anyone has experimented with the Taptation in a circuit other than delay, please post about it......if no one has....will somebody please, so i can rest easy until i get the parts. (not that im not going to use it in delay im just wishing for broader horizons.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on November 23, 2010, 06:18:06 PM
Anyone have any opinions / preference between the Echobase modulation and the Taptation modulation? I plan on implementing just one, and I'm leaning towards the echobase modulation, using the wave shape mod. If I want a modkill switch on the taptation modulation, is it sufficient to switch pin 7 of the digipot to ground?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on November 24, 2010, 12:44:16 PM
I like both of the modulations, the taptation one sounds very nice, the modulation speed is tied to the delay time or a multiple of it though.
With the Echo Base the modulation speed is independent of the delay time so you can do chorus effects with a short delay time and a longer modulation speed, or you can run a fast modulation speed with long delay times.

Yes, kill the taptation modulation you can just short out the mosfet. If you kill the modulation on the Echo Base there will still be some resistance in series with the digipot which will affect the accuracy of the tapped delay a bit. If you want maximum accuracy I would add a switch to short out the transistor.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on November 24, 2010, 01:05:56 PM
Thanks slacker. In addition to shorting the transistor, I'll still want to short the mod cap in order to kill the LED flash (using DPDT), right? Otherwise the LED will still flash with the mod speed?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on November 24, 2010, 01:19:03 PM
Yes :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aziltz on November 30, 2010, 12:27:57 PM
can 2 taptation controllers be chained together to drive 2 separate PT2399s in sync?

Perhaps just driving them with the same tap momentary switch?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on November 30, 2010, 12:32:51 PM
can 2 taptation controllers be chained together to drive 2 separate PT2399s in sync?

Perhaps just driving them with the same tap momentary switch?
Hi,

That question was already asked by me and answered earlier in a post by Andrew.
Using the same momentary switch works to set the two in motion but as soon as you select a subdivision and switch back you will notice a difference. I tried that.  ;)
The reason for that inaccuracy has also been explained. Just read a few posts back.

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aziltz on November 30, 2010, 12:38:32 PM
thanks.  I've read it and didn't really like what I heard.  I would love to have something that functioned like the PTAP2 from Thought Process, Inc but they are no longer available.  It be nice to drive 2 PT2399s in sync.  I have a idea for a super stereo PT80-like thing.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on December 05, 2010, 04:38:00 AM
Addressing the digital pot / accuracy issue:

There is a reason why I prefer to do real world testing instead of relying just on datasheets. I didn't care if the digital pots were exactly 100K because my readings were not made with that being important. I tested in a real world operating circuit and based my result on that, not what a bunch of datasheets say. When I made my readings I went through several digital pots from a three different production batches. My findings were very little variation and thats what is important. As long as the digital pots stayed accurate over a range then important factor was the calibration of the pot to time.

That aside I'm looking back into an idea I had awhile back to help further hone the accuracy so that a manual calibration mode may not be needed.

So few hours.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on December 06, 2010, 06:30:58 PM
I do have to stress that the TapTation is only setup for the 100K digital pot. Replacing it with the 50K will throw all the calibration off.
Hmmm - I should have listened to TTG as putting in a 50k dig pot doesn't work at all well - it does come up with some interesting results though.

Regarding the timing issues - they are only out by a little bit and for what it's worth this is a great solution.
Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on December 08, 2010, 02:30:43 AM
OK still looking for someone in the US that has a working taptation circuit with a socket. I'd like to send them a chip to test. Please respond via PM.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Scott Swartz on December 09, 2010, 01:04:52 AM
Aron I have a working circuit, sent you a PM
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: tigert10 on December 29, 2010, 01:00:18 AM
Are these going to be available again?  Have some Christmas money to spend and some ideas to test...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on December 29, 2010, 09:10:33 AM
i need one also...any word on a new batch?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: sentimentalbob on January 01, 2011, 01:23:40 PM
Hi! Can I reserve 2 taptation IC or module?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on January 16, 2011, 07:38:36 AM
I want also few of them! Hope you manage to get enough of them and shout out when they become available.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Skruffyhound on January 17, 2011, 05:43:16 PM
+1
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on January 22, 2011, 01:55:24 PM
I will have the Taptation chips ready to order this Monday. I will post a follow up in the forum.

Thanks!

Aron
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on January 22, 2011, 04:19:16 PM
I hope you have plenty, everybody has been waiting for them  :icon_biggrin:

As your previous post indicate, I assume you guys improved the taptation?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on January 23, 2011, 01:04:03 AM
There shouldn't be anymore "out of stock" issues now. :)

Right now it is still the same version. There will not be any upgrades until I have fully tested them. I'm a stickler for these sort of things. I do hope the new upgrades work as I think everyone will enjoy them. If there are any upgrades the documentation will be updated at the same time to reflect the changes.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on January 23, 2011, 07:34:11 AM
There shouldn't be anymore "out of stock" issues now. :)

Right now it is still the same version. There will not be any upgrades until I have fully tested them. I'm a stickler for these sort of things. I do hope the new upgrades work as I think everyone will enjoy them. If there are any upgrades the documentation will be updated at the same time to reflect the changes.

Andrew

I have tested the last version and it works really well. 8)
Installed in combination with a PT 80 delay. I would recommend this to anyone wanting to experiment with tap tempo.
The perf layout I posted earlier in this thread works fine, for those who are wanting to build it.

Thanks Andrew and Aron :icon_razz:

Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on January 23, 2011, 08:52:07 PM
Hi there - anyone who is allergic to perfboard here are 2 vero layouts:

(http://i56.tinypic.com/2nuufrd.png)

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)

Let the chip ordering begin!!
Later au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on January 24, 2011, 01:05:59 PM
OK, it's back up under kits.

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=65
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on January 24, 2011, 02:27:11 PM
International rates fixed too. Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 24, 2011, 03:24:25 PM
hey is there some kind of .pdf for some kind step-by step instructions? I've seen the vero layouts in this thread and i just dont get how to incorporate the circuit in to a delay. For instance, I have a PT-80 from GGG, and using the layout below i just dont understand how this would be hooked up. I dont need a double time switch or tempo scale but just the foot switch for the tap tempo and a pot for controlling the modulations depth. Anyone know of a stripped down layout.

Also, and i know ill get s**t for this (mostly due to my lack or knowledge) but what is the PWM Cycle Speed and tempo clock?  Help me expand my knowledge  :icon_lol:

heres the layout im using as a reference

(http://www.marcvanvugt.com/ima/taptationperf.jpg)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on January 24, 2011, 04:56:10 PM
Thanks for the layout au_loki!

Also, and i know ill get s**t for this (mostly due to my lack or knowledge) but what is the PWM Cycle Speed and tempo clock?  Help me expand my knowledge  :icon_lol:

Read through the datasheet and PT2399 app note. They explain each of the pin's functions. You can decided if you want that function or you can just wire it permanently to the way you want. The quick answer is the Tempo Clock input is the tap switch and PWM cycle speed sets the duty cycle of the modulation to either half or full so it is similar to the chorus/vibrato switch on a DMM.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 25, 2011, 03:35:21 PM



(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)



so if i understand after reading, re-reading, and re-re-reading the application note and using the layout about and the pdf for my pt80 from ggg, it seems as simple as soldering a few connection (after building the board obviously). As for the switches being shown, for the the tempo, pwm, and double time, what switches do you guys recommend? The tempo scale is jsut SPDT switch right? Also, for the delay time pot in the taptation, does that just replace what original time pot from the pt-80?

Only other thing that confuses me is the voltage difference between the two layouts for stripboard and the layout for perf. Why is it only 5vlts for the perf layout and in the stripboard you can use 9vlts? Just wondering

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_pt80_lo1.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a (http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_pt80_lo1.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: BoxOfSnoo on January 25, 2011, 03:39:42 PM

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)


Only other thing that confuses me is the voltage difference between the two layouts for stripboard and the layout for perf. Why is it only 5vlts for the perf layout and in the stripboard you can use 9vlts? Just wondering


Just to answer this part... the vero layout includes a 5v regulator (in the bottom left, looks like a transistor) which can take 9v and convert it.  The perf version leaves that out and you'd have to convert it offboard.  Or add it in to your own perf layout, if you prefer.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 25, 2011, 03:49:05 PM
ah alright thanks for clearing that up for me, appreciate it  ;D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on January 26, 2011, 03:36:47 AM
so if i understand after reading, re-reading, and re-re-reading the application note and using the layout about and the pdf for my pt80 from ggg, it seems as simple as soldering a few connection (after building the board obviously). As for the switches being shown, for the the tempo, pwm, and double time, what switches do you guys recommend? The tempo scale is jsut SPDT switch right? Also, for the delay time pot in the taptation, does that just replace what original time pot from the pt-80?

Only other thing that confuses me is the voltage difference between the two layouts for stripboard and the layout for perf. Why is it only 5vlts for the perf layout and in the stripboard you can use 9vlts? Just wondering

Yes it should be pretty easy to wire in the TapTation into the PT80. You can reuse the 50K linear Delay Time pot for the Time pot on the TapTation if you already have it. The pot doesn't have to be a 100K, just linear taper. If you are going to wire the TapTation via the pads on the GGG board layout then jumper the 1K resistor at T3 otherwise the calibration will be off. Other then that you would just replace the Delay Time pot with the TapTation time control. When you turn the pot it will override the tap time going into manual mode.

The tempo scale switch should be a ON-OFF-ON switch which is a three position SPST switch. If you can't find one you can wire a common ON-ON switch as in the diagram, optionally you can leave the 100K resistor off the center pole in this configuration, and you will get just the quarter and eighth scales. The double time and PWM switches are normal two position SPST switches. The Tempo Input switch can be a toggle or momentary switch, set through the Tempo Clock Pulse Mode Input, but most people with make this a footswitch. You can use the 3PDT that Aron sells using one pole.

If you wish you can skip the voltage regulator and wire into the PT80's 5v supply. The only major caveat is you should be sure how much current you are pulling from the regulator but I think you will be fine. If not or you want to be safe use the regulator provided on the strip board.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 26, 2011, 11:41:23 PM
awesome, thanks for the response Andrew. For the voltage regulator, does it have to be lm705 regulator? I cant seem to find it on mouse or smallbears but i did find one that seems to be a good equivalent.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/LM78L05ACZX/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMug9GoBKXZ759gGZZMS9Y2SAmLuMqNfRoc%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/LM78L05ACZX/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMug9GoBKXZ759gGZZMS9Y2SAmLuMqNfRoc%3d)

the data sheet seems to show that the pin out should work. Any opinions?

And for the jumper, i just remove the 1k resistor and put a jumper there? Or am i jumping else where?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on January 26, 2011, 11:55:12 PM
Hi there - in regards to the 5v regulator you can use any one that has the same configuration as the layout. Smallbear sell a IC 78L05 which will be fine.
For the jumper you must short out the 1k resistor to make sure that the 1k resistor is not in series with the Taptation resistance or the delays will be 'Taptation resistance + 1k'. I hope this explains things for you. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
Later au_loki.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on January 29, 2011, 10:39:40 AM
Quick question... what do the two diodes going to "tempo input" indicate?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 29, 2011, 12:08:05 PM
its the leds that indicate the tempo of the delay.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on January 29, 2011, 01:37:19 PM
but why two of them?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 29, 2011, 04:15:31 PM
the best way i can describe it is in reference to this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrx1sCFXhNs&feature=BF&playnext=1&list=QL&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrx1sCFXhNs&feature=BF&playnext=1&list=QL&index=1)

see how the 3 led behave. the yellow one on the right is power, the led on the left is the tempo, and the middle one just indicates when the switch is being pressed. As u press the tempo switch, it's led sets the tempo for the delay and the left led expresses that. Once you build the taptation, the non blinking led can be hidden in the enclosure if you want.

Dont know if i explained this so that everyone can understand but it makes sense in my head  :D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on January 29, 2011, 08:30:42 PM
That makes perfect sense... thank you!

I know it's a little bit off topic, but I'm incorporating this into the PT-80 from GGG. I only have 1uf electrolytics... but the layout doesn't specify the polarity of the 1uf (10 of them!) Can anyone help with polarity?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on January 29, 2011, 08:55:45 PM
Just to make it alittle clearer about the LEDs, one LED is the tempo you entered either through the time pot or the tap input. The other LED displays the tempo with the scale applied so if you are set to the eighth note scale one LED will show the quarter note input tempo and the other eighth note scaled tempo. It is sometimes hard to know if the input tempo is right when you only see the scaled tempo flashing at you. Likewise sometimes it is hard to know what you may have set the scale tempo to so its nice to see that output. This is why both outputs are offered.

This is covered in the documentation so read it all over.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on January 30, 2011, 01:53:22 AM
That makes perfect sense... thank you!

I know it's a little bit off topic, but I'm incorporating this into the PT-80 from GGG. I only have 1uf electrolytics... but the layout doesn't specify the polarity of the 1uf (10 of them!) Can anyone help with polarity?


I am doing the same thing, incorporating it into a pt80. The schematic doesn't show the caps to be electrolytics. If you look at the application note, it shows them to be just regular caps, unless there was a change in them somewhere with in this thread but i dont think so.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on January 31, 2011, 06:38:45 PM
JD got back to me with a layout with electrolytics instead... so it's all good!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on February 02, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
just got the parts in the mail today for the taptation! gonna start drawing everything verify that im gonna do everything right
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on February 02, 2011, 01:28:34 PM
so if i got everything right, this should be how to hook it up with a pt80.

from the taptation
the connect to pin6 of the pt2399 obviously goes to pin6 of the pt2399 on the pt80.
the delay ground goes to T1 on the delay (not too sure about this, thought that T1 was ground for the original delay time pot)
    if this isnt correct, i assume i just ground that by any ordinary means?

everything else is pretty self explainatory.

anyone see any mistakes let me know ok?
thanks!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on February 09, 2011, 06:19:09 PM
so i got the taptation built up and wired up correctly but instead of giveing me control of the delay time, i kinda have a slap back effect and the modulation is quite unclean and unusable. the tempo input does not work and the delay time pot does not work either, i am at a loss. any one have any idea?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 09, 2011, 06:32:45 PM
Well theres not much to go on with that information. What are the LEDs doing ? Other then check your wiring again I can't suggest anything.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on February 09, 2011, 06:49:03 PM
i know its not much information but i cant for the life of me figure out how to resolve the issue. The LEDS do not blink but are one constantly.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 09, 2011, 09:03:41 PM
Ok. Strip the circuit down to just the power supply, LEDs, the scale tempo switch (set it to ground the input), and the delay pot connections. Come back with voltage readings measured with a DMM.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 09, 2011, 11:25:33 PM
Take the switch to ground. I had the same problem using the vero layout. I omitted the half time switch and the modulation. I wasn't getting good ground until I took the switch connection from pin 14 to ground.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on February 10, 2011, 07:54:38 AM
Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier but make sure you check the earth connection as per the previous poster suggested, especially as the earth runs around the various switches etc. All the best.
Later au_loki.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 13, 2011, 08:37:22 AM
Can anyone advise me on what the voltage readings for the taptation pins and the pins of the 5v regulator should be? (I'm using the stripboard layout with all the switches "Taptation Delay + PWM Rev B") THANKS
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on February 14, 2011, 02:04:28 AM
great news, the taptation works now. I rebuilt it using a different layout unfortunately, but it does work. Only thing that seems to be odd is that the time pot on the taptation doesnt actually control the delay time, rather the depth knob does. and the PWM ( which to my understanding, that could be wrong, is supposed to be modulation in the delay) doesnt seem to do anything. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on February 14, 2011, 07:45:29 AM
Hey, make sure that you 5v on pin 1 and GND on pin 14. I tried saving room on the vero layout by not running the GND direct to pin 14. To save some heartache you can put a wire from GND to the track feeding pin 14.
Later au_loki.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 14, 2011, 10:00:51 AM
the regulator on the strip layout looks like a 78L05 but it is a 7805 which has the opposite pinout. The top pin should read the amount of voltage you are putting in, the middle lug is ground, the bottom should be around 5 volts.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 14, 2011, 11:54:14 PM
Issue with the tempo scale input...

When I put the SPDT to the center (off position) there is a constant high pitched sound in the background... any suggestions?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 15, 2011, 02:58:34 AM
great news, the taptation works now. I rebuilt it using a different layout unfortunately, but it does work. Only thing that seems to be odd is that the time pot on the taptation doesnt actually control the delay time, rather the depth knob does. and the PWM ( which to my understanding, that could be wrong, is supposed to be modulation in the delay) doesnt seem to do anything. Any suggestions?

With modulation depth set to minimum, off that is, does the time pot still control the delay time ?

Make sure you are using 5v for everything related to the TapTation. 9v should not go anywhere near the TapTation circuit.

Issue with the tempo scale input...

When I put the SPDT to the center (off position) there is a constant high pitched sound in the background... any suggestions?

Does this happen with any other other positions ? Do you have the 100k resistor on the center pole of the switch ?

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 15, 2011, 10:02:27 AM
No, just the middle position. Yes, I have the 100K resistor soldered from the middle pole to the outside pole as shown in the stripboard layout.

great news, the taptation works now. I rebuilt it using a different layout unfortunately, but it does work. Only thing that seems to be odd is that the time pot on the taptation doesnt actually control the delay time, rather the depth knob does. and the PWM ( which to my understanding, that could be wrong, is supposed to be modulation in the delay) doesnt seem to do anything. Any suggestions?

With modulation depth set to minimum, off that is, does the time pot still control the delay time ?

Make sure you are using 5v for everything related to the TapTation. 9v should not go anywhere near the TapTation circuit.

Issue with the tempo scale input...

When I put the SPDT to the center (off position) there is a constant high pitched sound in the background... any suggestions?

Does this happen with any other other positions ? Do you have the 100k resistor on the center pole of the switch ?

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 16, 2011, 05:50:50 AM
No, just the middle position. Yes, I have the 100K resistor soldered from the middle pole to the outside pole as shown in the stripboard layout.

Is the scale tempo LED changing values randomly ? You might need to decrease the 100K resistor.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 16, 2011, 10:28:59 PM
How would one hook up this taptation to the Rebote 2.5 layout at http://solderman.fatabur.se/CopyCat/Copy%20Cat%20Project.pdf ? Do I need to omit R7?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 16, 2011, 10:55:21 PM
Yes. Omit the 1k. The delay time pot will connect to the digital pot on the taptation layout.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 17, 2011, 09:58:10 AM
Nope, the LED is not changing randomly. Any other ideas?

No, just the middle position. Yes, I have the 100K resistor soldered from the middle pole to the outside pole as shown in the stripboard layout.

Is the scale tempo LED changing values randomly ? You might need to decrease the 100K resistor.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 17, 2011, 10:51:12 AM
Nope, the LED is not changing randomly. Any other ideas?

No, just the middle position. Yes, I have the 100K resistor soldered from the middle pole to the outside pole as shown in the stripboard layout.

Is the scale tempo LED changing values randomly ? You might need to decrease the 100K resistor.

Andrew
Which layout are you using? I had some issues with the tempo scale also. I used the vero. Did you cut any of the other features out like the modulation and half tempo switch? Make sure pin 14 is grounded good and check the solder connections on the tap chip. I was getting all kinds of screwy things going on.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 24, 2011, 09:46:39 AM
By checking ground, just making sure with multimeter beeps when touching pin 14 and ground right?

Ground is good... maybe I'm being too picky... the sound i hear in the middle position is very faint. I have to not play the guitar. Listen closely to background noise when the switch is down. Then switch it to middle position to hear. It's more like a high pitched faint hum. Anyone else hear this? If so, then I won't worry as much.

Nope, the LED is not changing randomly. Any other ideas?

No, just the middle position. Yes, I have the 100K resistor soldered from the middle pole to the outside pole as shown in the stripboard layout.

Is the scale tempo LED changing values randomly ? You might need to decrease the 100K resistor.

Andrew
Which layout are you using? I had some issues with the tempo scale also. I used the vero. Did you cut any of the other features out like the modulation and half tempo switch? Make sure pin 14 is grounded good and check the solder connections on the tap chip. I was getting all kinds of screwy things going on.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 24, 2011, 02:45:45 PM
had a similar issue and checked the solder joints on the tap chip and also that the solder joints weren't touching the case or anything metal
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 24, 2011, 04:15:55 PM
Does the pitch of this hum change with the tempo setting ? How is the wiring of the switch in relation to any audio signal lines ?

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 25, 2011, 01:02:39 AM
Is it possible to hook up the taptation to a Maxon AD 80 for tap tempo?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on February 25, 2011, 10:07:50 AM
no. it only works on pt2399 delays.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 26, 2011, 11:08:00 PM
Hooked up the rebote 2.5 delay to the taptation stripboard layout (with all the switches.) The tempo lights don't come on, and I don't hear the rebote delay when the pedal is on. Question. The 78L05 in the rebote reads 5V. The 78L05 on the taptation layout reads 7V. Could that be the reason?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on February 27, 2011, 03:27:24 AM
Question. The 78L05 in the rebote reads 5V. The 78L05 on the taptation layout reads 7V. Could that be the reason?

Thats not good! It should definitely read 5V. Pull the IC out and check your wiring, pinouts, then voltages again.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 27, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
Replaced the 7805 and all the voltages are good. The taptation portion responds well to all the switches. But I don't get any sound with the pedal engaged. Are there any other modifications that need to be made to the layout at http://solderman.fatabur.se/CopyCat/Copy%20Cat%20Project.pdf other than taking out R7?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 27, 2011, 11:08:57 PM
Also FYI... I'm using a 100K pot instead of a 25K pot for the modulation level on the layout (didn't have a 25k pot) but I'm assuming that wouldn't change anything right?

Replaced the 7805 and all the voltages are good. The taptation portion responds well to all the switches. But I don't get any sound with the pedal engaged. Are there any other modifications that need to be made to the layout at http://solderman.fatabur.se/CopyCat/Copy%20Cat%20Project.pdf other than taking out R7?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 28, 2011, 11:54:37 AM
One more thing. I know the IC's are good. I have previously built unit that works great. I swapped all the IC chips into that one, and everything still works fine. So the chips are not the issue.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on February 28, 2011, 11:50:51 PM
So with the help of an audio probe, I was able to get my rebote 2.5 to work.

But now, the taptation is not doing its job. All the pots work, and the leds will light up with each press of the momentary footswitch, but the unit doesn't "remember" the new delay time.

Any takers?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on March 01, 2011, 12:00:55 PM
check you ground to your tap switch & pin 14 of the taptation
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 01, 2011, 12:58:18 PM
Thanks. I checked and they have good connection. Any other ideas?

check you ground to your tap switch & pin 14 of the taptation
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on March 01, 2011, 03:09:58 PM
make sure you get ground to the delay time pot as well. also check the solder joints on the taptation. i had the same problem and those 2 things solved it.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 01, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
All grounds are intact. When the momentary footswitch is pressed, the multimeter beeps very clearly with the probes touching lug 2 and 14 of the taptation. All lugs of the taptation are soldered nicely. The multimeter beeps very clearly with the probes touching each lug and each track on the stripboard.

Any other suggestions?

make sure you get ground to the delay time pot as well. also check the solder joints on the taptation. i had the same problem and those 2 things solved it.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 01, 2011, 11:45:18 PM
One thing I noticed about the way the two LEDs behave when tapping the switch is this:

On the unit that works (PT80 + taptation) one LED shuts off, while the other remains on during the taps - when the taps are finished, both LEDs will start blinking again at the new rate.

On this unit that's giving me trouble (Rebote 2.5 + taptation) both LEDs will blink together which each tap inputted.

Does that help with the troubleshooting in anyway?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on March 02, 2011, 10:32:23 AM
i was having the same problem and i tried several elementary things so bare with me. have you tried taking the tap chip out and putting it back in? make sure the pins are touching the right socket pins.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 02, 2011, 11:48:21 AM
No, not at all! I am very appreciative. You're the one that's responding trying to help.

Yeah, the tap chip was taken out. And actually tested in the PT-80/taptation unit I have, and worked fine. I also made sure that each lug, is making good contact with each pin, and that each pin is soldered well into each track using a multimeter.

I'm happy with the help you're giving. Of course, I'll be even happier when we finally get it to work.

i was having the same problem and i tried several elementary things so bare with me. have you tried taking the tap chip out and putting it back in? make sure the pins are touching the right socket pins.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on March 02, 2011, 12:38:57 PM
are you using all the features? modulation? and you are using the full version vero?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 02, 2011, 01:50:12 PM
I am using "Taptation Rev B" layout pictured at the bottom of page 3 of this thread. It's the one with all the features. CAVEAT: My modulation potentiometer is 100k, not 25k due to availability. That shouldn't matter though right? I also thought the LEDs were extremely bright so I used 2.2K resistors for all three LEDs (the T/B LED and taptation LEDs.)


are you using all the features? modulation? and you are using the full version vero?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ppatchmods on March 02, 2011, 03:17:36 PM
did you add the 100k on the tempo scale switch?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 02, 2011, 06:01:05 PM
yes i did

did you add the 100k on the tempo scale switch?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RicoRokkaRolla on March 13, 2011, 01:13:58 PM
Would somebody be so kind as to send me a layout with 78L05 and a ready-to -transfer pcb with 78L05 and all options? Will be there any opportunities to controll my diy pulsar tremolo with my taptation equipped diy rebote 2.5 delay's tap tempo at the same time? Really thanks, all the best!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on March 13, 2011, 07:22:33 PM
Will be there any opportunities to controll my diy pulsar tremolo with my taptation equipped diy rebote 2.5 delay's tap tempo at the same time? Really thanks, all the best!

The LFO output of the TapTation, which is used with delays for the modulation, can be used as an LFO replacement in an tremolo or phaser with proper buffering / driver circuitry.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RicoRokkaRolla on March 15, 2011, 10:11:08 AM
Could you suggest some idea how I can controll my pulsar tremolo, with this lfo out? I'm a beginner, so need some help. How should I get the connection between to pedals and its PCB.
Will I be able to switch between delay modulation (depth) and LFO out (for my pulsar tremolo), if I apply a switch? Thank you!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: sentimentalbob on March 17, 2011, 04:52:14 AM
Hi.
I have have a problem. Time pot is working. LED a clipping. Double Time and Scale switches is working. But I can't set tempo by the button!
Who that had such problem?
I Buy 4 taptation, and result is identical.
I record a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOJppPrRt0E
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on March 18, 2011, 03:57:44 AM
Could you suggest some idea how I can controll my pulsar tremolo, with this lfo out? I'm a beginner, so need some help. How should I get the connection between to pedals and its PCB.
Will I be able to switch between delay modulation (depth) and LFO out (for my pulsar tremolo), if I apply a switch? Thank you!

I'm not familer with that circuit to be able to offer a beginner friendly instructions. Sorry.

I have have a problem. Time pot is working. LED a clipping. Double Time and Scale switches is working. But I can't set tempo by the button!
Who that had such problem?

What type of switch are you using ? How do you have pin 4 set ? Do you have a debounce network on the switch and if so what are the values ? When you hit the switch the tempo LED should stay on until either you hit the switch or you wait longer then about 1 second. You can even test just by tapping a wire connected to the switch input to ground. Another thing is it looks like you pot is really noisy. Even as you moved the circuit around the tempo changed all over the place. Do you have the 1K/0.1uF filter network on the pot ?

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on March 20, 2011, 07:28:53 PM
Alright guys, I have a PCB for the no-modulation version of the taptation circuit, and I'll have one of the full version soon. If there is enough interest, I will see about having boards fabbed. And, if Tone God and Aron are on board, I'll make them available to Aron to sell with the kit. I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 22, 2011, 04:29:30 PM
What size pot are you using for the delay time? I hooked this up to a rebote 2.5 which is supposed to use a 50k for delay time. But per the layout of the taptation, used a 100k instead. I'm having the same problems as you. Maybe this change in pot size is the reason?

Hi.
I have have a problem. Time pot is working. LED a clipping. Double Time and Scale switches is working. But I can't set tempo by the button!
Who that had such problem?
I Buy 4 taptation, and result is identical.
I record a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOJppPrRt0E
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on March 22, 2011, 04:43:26 PM
What size pot are you using for the delay time? I hooked this up to a rebote 2.5 which is supposed to use a 50k for delay time. But per the layout of the taptation, used a 100k instead. I'm having the same problems as you. Maybe this change in pot size is the reason?

Hi.
I have have a problem. Time pot is working. LED a clipping. Double Time and Scale switches is working. But I can't set tempo by the button!
Who that had such problem?
I Buy 4 taptation, and result is identical.
I record a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOJppPrRt0E
That shouldn't matter. In terms of circuit function, all using a 100k instead of a 50k will do is allow longer repeats, which can get pretty dirty. But it should affect the function of the taptation.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: sentimentalbob on March 22, 2011, 05:02:23 PM
I use momentary switch
4 pin of the attiny in the "air"
debounce network on the switch its 100K resistor and 0.1cap? yes

I have tapping a wire connected to the switch input to ground..... no result

...............When you hit the switch the tempo LED should stay on until either you hit the switch or you wait longer then about 1 second
LED is blinking, when I wait about 1 second
Do you have the 1K/0.1uF filter network on the pot ? yes
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 22, 2011, 11:08:05 PM
So, I got the tap tempo switch working. The SPST momentary switches seem to need a higher capacitor for the debounce filter to reduce the noise. A 0.47uf instead of 0.1uf did the trick. However, I noticed that the repeats are a tiny bit faster than the rate of the flashing leds... any help with this?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 23, 2011, 09:25:57 AM
Actually I think I know the answer to my own question... I probably need to put the 1k resistor back in right before pin 6 on the PT2399, right?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: sentimentalbob on March 24, 2011, 05:52:18 PM
So, I got the tap tempo switch working. The SPST momentary switches seem to need a higher capacitor for the debounce filter to reduce the noise. A 0.47uf instead of 0.1uf did the trick. However, I noticed that the repeats are a tiny bit faster than the rate of the flashing leds... any help with this?

50K or 100K
0.1uf or 0.47
no result.
When I clipping switch, LED is flashing, but the tempo is not "stored"
I think, It's problem in Attiny(((
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on March 25, 2011, 10:04:52 AM
Take a high resolution photo of your taptation pcb... component side and solder side and upload it.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on April 02, 2011, 12:04:01 PM
Okay guys, I've built a working prototype of my layout without the modulation features. I'd post the layout, but I can't figure out how to get pdfs to upload into the gallery. I know you can, I just can't seem to make it work.

This thing is cool! I'll be contacting Aron and Tone God in the next few days to see about offering pre-fabbed PCBs with the kits.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on April 08, 2011, 04:19:31 PM
Use prtscr and then cut out the i;age with paint and upload it?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on April 08, 2011, 04:41:51 PM
huh? Who are you responding to?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on April 09, 2011, 01:13:15 PM
To you
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on April 12, 2011, 11:09:24 PM
Hey guys,

I did a layout today, but it's for a modified version. I don't want a Double Time switch, nor do I want a switch for the time divisions. I also didn't need the modulation, and so I left that out entirely. Since the tap time is quarter notes the way I set it up, I just used one LED for the indicator, instead of one for the tempo and one for the divisions. I also put an onboard 5v regulator and 9V input, that way it can be used very easily.

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/715/taptationlayout.png) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/taptationlayout.png/)

So, it's just a quarter note tap tempo controller with an indicator LED this way. Whatcha think? I'll be getting someone to etch me a copy of this in the near future, and I'll verify it before I post any other documentation.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on April 15, 2011, 09:57:47 AM
I have a question.

In this case Tap Tempo delay means, it remembers different rhythm patterns for the delay? Or you can tap in the speed of delay?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on April 15, 2011, 03:38:08 PM
I have a question.

In this case Tap Tempo delay means, it remembers different rhythm patterns for the delay? Or you can tap in the speed of delay?

Speed only.

I have two questions:

1) I can't find anywhere in the documentation showing which position of the scale switch is what. Like when it's open, which scale is it, when it is connected to Vcc, which scale, etc...

2) Also, I've notice some drift on my tempo between the repeats and the LED. I know the documentation says you will hear this with the repeats up high, but I'm getting this drift after about 3 repeats, which doesn't seem high to me...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on April 15, 2011, 09:57:13 PM
Can't help with 2...

1) it's a chart on page 7 of the Taptation document.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on April 18, 2011, 05:01:36 PM
I have two questions:

1) I can't find anywhere in the documentation showing which position of the scale switch is what. Like when it's open, which scale is it, when it is connected to Vcc, which scale, etc...

2) Also, I've notice some drift on my tempo between the repeats and the LED. I know the documentation says you will hear this with the repeats up high, but I'm getting this drift after about 3 repeats, which doesn't seem high to me...

1. As stated there is chart in the data sheet that explains each setting of the various input and their corresponding effect on the tempo output.

2. The input to the PT2399 is sensitive. In testing I found that even when handling the wire connected the circuit the time would go off this is why I encourage the connection to be as short as possible to reduce error. I do have the designs of a version that should reduce this problem but only so much time right now.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on April 19, 2011, 09:16:33 AM
I have a problem.

It works. LEDs blink and button works.

But: If I close the cover of the enclosure, it will stop. LEDs doesn't blink, or blink very very fast. Feels like shielding is killing it. What could be the problem? Rebote works, but taptation makes very fast repeats.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: swinginguitar on April 19, 2011, 10:37:33 AM
Is it possible to use this in tandem with a pot for speed? IOW, you can tap tempo or adjust with a knob....would you need a rotary encoder of some kind?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on April 19, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
Is it possible to use this in tandem with a pot for speed? IOW, you can tap tempo or adjust with a knob....would you need a rotary encoder of some kind?
This functionality is already there in the kit. The tap sets the tempo, or you can set it with the knob.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on April 20, 2011, 02:26:05 AM
But: If I close the cover of the enclosure, it will stop. LEDs doesn't blink, or blink very very fast. Feels like shielding is killing it. What could be the problem? Rebote works, but taptation makes very fast repeats.

Sounds to me like somewhere a connection is shorting. Try opening the case slowly while running and see at what point the circuit comes to life.

Is it possible to use this in tandem with a pot for speed? IOW, you can tap tempo or adjust with a knob....would you need a rotary encoder of some kind?

The TapTation does all that for you with a standard pot. No need for an encoder.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on April 20, 2011, 07:32:16 AM
Hi.

Still. Cant figure out why it does what it does.

I built it on a vero. Cleaned the board with alcohol.

Used the schematic on the page 3 RevB

LEDs blink like insane but not with full power, kind of dull. If I connect the power, I get one normal full power blink and from there it goes insane and dull, but its not affecting the Delay itself.

Any ideas?

Caps are Ceramic.
Resistors are metal 1%
Wires are max 10cm long.

Used Delay time only.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on April 20, 2011, 03:54:31 PM
If LEDs are blink dull and other random behaviour then you have bad connection(s). Recheck and measure everything.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on April 21, 2011, 04:44:37 AM
Thank you Andrew!

Its a good product and you are providing very good support!
Good luck to you!

My IC socket was faulty, corroded.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on April 21, 2011, 01:59:15 PM
I have two questions:

1) I can't find anywhere in the documentation showing which position of the scale switch is what. Like when it's open, which scale is it, when it is connected to Vcc, which scale, etc...

2) Also, I've notice some drift on my tempo between the repeats and the LED. I know the documentation says you will hear this with the repeats up high, but I'm getting this drift after about 3 repeats, which doesn't seem high to me...

1. As stated there is chart in the data sheet that explains each setting of the various input and their corresponding effect on the tempo output.

2. The input to the PT2399 is sensitive. In testing I found that even when handling the wire connected the circuit the time would go off this is why I encourage the connection to be as short as possible to reduce error. I do have the designs of a version that should reduce this problem but only so much time right now.

Andrew

Thanks again on this Andrew. I wanted to let you know I think the chart has the function of connecting to ground and the function of connecting to Vcc switched.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on April 24, 2011, 10:56:53 AM
Still. I am getting the same problem again and again.

In somekind of state it just starts to blink. At first it works fine but after working few minutes, it starts to go mad.

Could you point out, which parts are the most sensitive. Maybe I am having somekind of interference problems. Its not some thing I can call out, it just happens. So a shielded cable of maybe the vero I am using has the lines too tightly together, so it starts to oscillate?

So the problem varies. Now it only blinks fast if I close the enclosure. (no wires are pressed the board sits still) Same happens with different other metal plates if I put them too close.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on April 28, 2011, 02:06:14 AM
Routing that pin 6 wire is really important. Unsheilded, close as possible between the PT2399 and digital pot, try to keep it away from other signals especially ground.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mhartington on April 28, 2011, 09:55:37 AM
just a simple question that has nothing to do with the actual construction of the taptation, but what are you all using for enclosures? It becoming a very tight fit for me and wanted to know what bigger enclosures people are using
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: sentimentalbob on May 15, 2011, 06:38:28 PM
How to calibrate taptation?
If taping temp by the metronome, LED blinking "in the metronome click". But repeats are faster then LED blinking
POT is 50kB
I tried with and without 1k resistor on 6pin.
I tried to connect trimpot to the 6pin of PT2399, but if I calibrate to temp 120
on other temps repeats are lost temp
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on June 02, 2011, 05:47:31 AM
You have to remember to put your tongue out of the right hand side of your mouth while you tinker or it will never work.
Oh just wait - I am in the southern hemisphere so maybe it only works if your tongue is out the left side (you have got no hope if you live on the Equator).

Back to reality, there are a few variables involved here as we are using the PT2399 chip in a circuit that it really wasn't designed for.
While in years gone by it was a winner in the mass produced karaoke machine or surround sound equipment market where specific timing isn't required we have laid upon it expectations to perform perfectly in the precise tap tempo arena that we have forced it into.
The problem comes down to the actual internal tolerances of the much loved PT chip itself.

I encourage you to try a couple of different chips and keep the one that works the best or buy a DD7/DL4 etc.
Big thanks to TTG for coming up with this idea and seeing through.

Catch you later
au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on June 02, 2011, 09:33:44 AM
You have to remember to put your tongue out of the right hand side of your mouth while you tinker or it will never work.
Oh just wait - I am in the southern hemisphere so maybe it only works if your tongue is out the left side (you have got no hope if you live on the Equator).


A tongue in cheek joke about your tongue being in your cheek? I love it  ;D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: bradfromtampa on July 03, 2011, 09:33:50 PM
sorry if this has been answered already, i think i've looked through all the posts....   can you add a tempo led to this?  meaning an led that will blink to the tempo.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on July 05, 2011, 02:10:12 AM
sorry if this has been answered already, i think i've looked through all the posts....   can you add a tempo led to this?  meaning an led that will blink to the tempo.

There are two LED outputs. One spits out the tempo that was entered and the other spits out the tempo with the divider applied.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: bradfromtampa on July 05, 2011, 07:24:52 PM
Could i make a tap tempo pedal that would control 2 dd-5's with a tempo light?  If so, how would I go about doing this?  I'm a novice, again, sorry if it's been covered already.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on July 07, 2011, 03:01:12 AM
Could i make a tap tempo pedal that would control 2 dd-5's with a tempo light?  If so, how would I go about doing this?  I'm a novice, again, sorry if it's been covered already.

I don't have a DD5 but I would assume it uses a momentary switch. I suppose you could but I think the issue would be that the LED would constantly be setting the tempo. You would need some kind of counter to trigger the DD5 for a number of pulses then stop. It can be done but it requires some extra logic to be built. Not the easiest thing to do.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on July 07, 2011, 09:17:56 AM
A question.

If I connect two bright LEDs to the circuit, it will start to click. Can I fix it, or i have to use other LEDs?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on July 07, 2011, 04:49:21 PM
If I connect two bright LEDs to the circuit, it will start to click. Can I fix it, or i have to use other LEDs?

The click is probably coming from the sudden current draw of the LEDs from the power supply. You can try standard digital / analog power supply isolating techniques to help isolate the digital and analog power supplies. Another is reduce the brightness of the LEDs.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Rockprocess on August 21, 2011, 07:54:47 PM
Does anybody offer a pcb for the taptation?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on August 23, 2011, 06:47:27 PM
Well, I can't seem to figure out eliminating the clicks in my "Wahsome" wah sequencer pedal which uses a 555 and 4017, and would like to try the Taptation in place of the 555 clock so that I'll obviously have tap-tempo control, along with rotary speed control. It doesn't seem like anyone has given this a go yet, so my question is...

how??  ???

Is it as simple as taking the Taptation clock output (pin 3) output to the clock input (pin 14) of the 4017 to make my blinkies blink? And by doing that I will have a silent clock AND tap tempo control of my sequencer wah??

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 29, 2011, 05:03:48 PM
The clicking is usually caused by sharp draws in current. There could be two places that is happening in your circuit. The 555 and the changing LED draw from the 4017. The TapTation will only help if the noise is coming from your 555 so I would disconnect and power down the 555 and manually clock the 4017 to see if you hear the clicking. If you don't then quick power on the 555 without connecting to the 4017. If you hear the clicking then I would say the 555 is your problem and then it would be worth replacing the 555 with the TapTation. If the clicking happened with the 4017 then you have to reexamine your wiring of the 4017.

All you have to do to connect the TapTation to the 4017 is just wire the output to the 4017 and your good to go. That simple. Yes it will be quite with no clicks.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on August 29, 2011, 07:09:55 PM
The clicking is usually caused by sharp draws in current. There could be two places that is happening in your circuit. The 555 and the changing LED draw from the 4017. The TapTation will only help if the noise is coming from your 555 so I would disconnect and power down the 555 and manually clock the 4017 to see if you hear the clicking. If you don't then quick power on the 555 without connecting to the 4017. If you hear the clicking then I would say the 555 is your problem and then it would be worth replacing the 555 with the TapTation. If the clicking happened with the 4017 then you have to reexamine your wiring of the 4017.

All you have to do to connect the TapTation to the 4017 is just wire the output to the 4017 and your good to go. That simple. Yes it will be quite with no clicks.

Andrew

Well, the clicking happens even when the 4017 is set to inhibit (leaving only the first led on), so it has to be the 555. It's a cheap radioshack 555 which according to searches seem to be notorious for that, but I'd rather have the tap-tempo capability for it anyway.

Awesome, I ordered the TapTation last week so I'll give it a go and report back! Thanks Andrew.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: frequencycentral on August 29, 2011, 07:20:41 PM
555 is notorious for crowbarring the power supply, you should be able to eliminate the ticking by using a CMOS 7555.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on August 29, 2011, 08:16:06 PM
555 is notorious for crowbarring the power supply, you should be able to eliminate the ticking by using a CMOS 7555.

My apologies, but crowbarring the PS? What's that mean?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on August 31, 2011, 06:33:01 PM

All you have to do to connect the TapTation to the 4017 is just wire the output to the 4017 and your good to go. That simple. Yes it will be quite with no clicks.

Andrew

Well, in creating my current sequencer circuit, this schem is essentially what I based my design on:

(http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/05280.png)

Now as you can see, the "output" pin of the 555 obviously goes to the "Clock" pin of the 4017. On the TapTation the "Clock Output" goes to the time control pot, and then to ground. How do I hook up the Output to the 4017 and still have a time control pot? Is this where the need for the MCP41100 comes into play? I'd like to have knob speed AND tap tempo control.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 01, 2011, 04:18:04 AM
To fit in you circuit above you would connect the Tempo Scale Output to the 4017 Clk pin. The MCP41100 and MOSFET portions can be omitted as it is only used to control a PT2399. Everything else is the same as in the PT2399 application sheet.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: frequencycentral on September 01, 2011, 10:39:55 AM
555 is notorious for crowbarring the power supply, you should be able to eliminate the ticking by using a CMOS 7555.

My apologies, but crowbarring the PS? What's that mean?

Google is your friend:

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=gsis%2Ci18n%3Dtrue&cp=17&gs_id=24&xhr=t&q=ne555+crowbarring&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=ne555+crowbarring&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=8e14261de5dc5d59&biw=1608&bih=795

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=gsis%2Ci18n%3Dtrue&cp=17&gs_id=24&xhr=t&q=ne555+crowbarring&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=ne555+crowbarring&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=8e14261de5dc5d59&biw=1608&bih=795
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on September 01, 2011, 12:00:30 PM
To fit in you circuit above you would connect the Tempo Scale Output to the 4017 Clk pin. The MCP41100 and MOSFET portions can be omitted as it is only used to control a PT2399. Everything else is the same as in the PT2399 application sheet.

Andrew

Awesome. I'm hoping that Aron has shipped my TapTation out already because I'd love to get this bread boarded this weekend. Looks like I'm the first to apply it to a tap-tempo sequencer, so I hope that more will follow!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 02, 2011, 04:39:14 PM
Awesome. I'm hoping that Aron has shipped my TapTation out already because I'd love to get this bread boarded this weekend. Looks like I'm the first to apply it to a tap-tempo sequencer, so I hope that more will follow!

I have tried to it make sure it worked. AFAIK you are the first customer to use the TapTation in this type of application. I thought it was so simple to do that there wasn't a need for a app sheet. Your feedback may help to decide if a dedicated app sheet is required.

Good luck and enjoy!

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on September 15, 2011, 07:02:10 PM
Does anybody offer a pcb for the taptation?

I have one I'm in the process of verifying. Will post it when it's up.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on September 15, 2011, 09:53:20 PM
Awesome. I'm hoping that Aron has shipped my TapTation out already because I'd love to get this bread boarded this weekend. Looks like I'm the first to apply it to a tap-tempo sequencer, so I hope that more will follow!

I have tried to it make sure it worked. AFAIK you are the first customer to use the TapTation in this type of application. I thought it was so simple to do that there wasn't a need for a app sheet. Your feedback may help to decide if a dedicated app sheet is required.

Good luck and enjoy!

Andrew

In this same fashion, couldn't you use the tempo scale output to drive an LDR for a tap tremolo? I guess the only thing to figure out would be how to enact a depth control.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 20, 2011, 04:55:24 PM
In this same fashion, couldn't you use the tempo scale output to drive an LDR for a tap tremolo? I guess the only thing to figure out would be how to enact a depth control.

Yes you can use the TapTation for an LFO but you wouldn't use the Tempo Scale Output. You would use the Tempo PWM Output and put a filter on it as explained in the datasheet ;). A depth control can be implemented either by controlling the amount of output, think volume control, or by making a bypass around the LDR. It really depends on the circuit design in question.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on September 20, 2011, 06:40:48 PM
In this same fashion, couldn't you use the tempo scale output to drive an LDR for a tap tremolo? I guess the only thing to figure out would be how to enact a depth control.

Yes you can use the TapTation for an LFO but you wouldn't use the Tempo Scale Output. You would use the Tempo PWM Output and put a filter on it as explained in the datasheet ;). A depth control can be implemented either by controlling the amount of output, think volume control, or by making a bypass around the LDR. It really depends on the circuit design in question.

Andrew

Nice. So if I understand this correctly, could you in theory also use this (using the PWM) to add tap to a transistor based trem, like the heartthrob?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 21, 2011, 04:27:28 PM
Nice. So if I understand this correctly, could you in theory also use this (using the PWM) to add tap to a transistor based trem, like the heartthrob?

In theory, yes. Even in the PT2399 app note the PWM output is used to switch a MOSFET to ground in between the digital pot and the PT2399 much like a tremolo.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on September 21, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
Nice. So if I understand this correctly, could you in theory also use this (using the PWM) to add tap to a transistor based trem, like the heartthrob?

In theory, yes. Even in the PT2399 app note the PWM output is used to switch a MOSFET to ground in between the digital pot and the PT2399 much like a tremolo.

Andrew

HMMMM.... interesting. I'm trying to picture in my head though, and I'm not able to get my head around it. How would that work?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 22, 2011, 07:16:49 PM
HMMMM.... interesting. I'm trying to picture in my head though, and I'm not able to get my head around it. How would that work?

Well in the case of the PT2399 modulation the MOSFET is basically a switch to ground that is being turned on and off very quickly, faster then the PT2399's clock can respond too so it seems smooth. I would suspect that if you were to try to hook the PWM output directly to a transistor to act as a tremolo the PWM clock would bleed through so it would be better to smooth out the PWM output with a RC network as described in the datasheet. The real trick will be setting the sweep to be within the conductive range of the restive element, in your case I believe a transistor of some sort, will respond to. There really isn't an universal answer to this other then maybe a DC buffer/gain/bias stage of some sort.

The quick easy way to make a tremolo out of the TapTation is to hook the PWM output to an LED in an optocoupler. The LDR probably won't be able to respond quick enough to the switching of the LED and the output swing of the PWM output will easy sweep most LEDs through their brightness range.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Kindly Killer on September 26, 2011, 10:30:42 AM
Did the timing problem ever get resolved? From this post it sounds like the tap tempo function still doesn't work to a point where it is accurate enough for playing with other musicians.

Put it this way: at this moment with the kits in the store, is there any way to get to within 5ms accuracy? Possibly by sorting through a bunch of digipots? I really love the sound of the two Fab Echo's I modified about a year ago using the Taptation kit, but I was frustrated by not being able to use the tap tempo feature, so they have been collecting dust.

How to calibrate taptation?
If taping temp by the metronome, LED blinking "in the metronome click". But repeats are faster then LED blinking
POT is 50kB
I tried with and without 1k resistor on 6pin.
I tried to connect trimpot to the 6pin of PT2399, but if I calibrate to temp 120
on other temps repeats are lost temp
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 28, 2011, 02:24:46 AM
I kinda keep beating this drum but the problem with accuracy is not really as much the TapTation but the PT2399. Its not accurate to begin with. The TapTation is just a good enough solution. I do have an idea to increase the accuracy but it will never be dead on. Its pretty much impossible without side effects which would be intolerable for most.

The other drum I keep beating is why do people really need that accurate of delay ? It not like you will notice the slight off count when you keep feeding it fresh notes. Unless you are doing dozens of repeats the offset will not build up to noticeable levels. And most players when then enter a time are still off for the actual tempo. GIGO.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on September 28, 2011, 10:44:15 AM
I kinda keep beating this drum but the problem with accuracy is not really as much the TapTation but the PT2399. Its not accurate to begin with. The TapTation is just a good enough solution. I do have an idea to increase the accuracy but it will never be dead on. Its pretty much impossible without side effects which would be intolerable for most.

The other drum I keep beating is why do people really need that accurate of delay ? It not like you will notice the slight off count when you keep feeding it fresh notes. Unless you are doing dozens of repeats the offset will not build up to noticeable levels. And most players when then enter a time are still off for the actual tempo. GIGO.

Andrew

^---THIS
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: norim_13 on September 29, 2011, 03:05:21 PM
Is there any new layout from anybody?
If not, this one is good, right?

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)

Thanks
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: monkeyxx on October 21, 2011, 12:44:52 AM
sorry I can't find this anywhere... what does the "tempo scale" switch do on this chip?

I'm interested in adding it to my rebote-based build
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 21, 2011, 01:18:09 AM
sorry I can't find this anywhere... what does the "tempo scale" switch do on this chip?

It is explained in the datasheet. It selects the tempo division (i.e. quarter, eighth, dotted eighth. etc.)

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: monkeyxx on October 21, 2011, 01:21:19 AM
ah I just found it thanks
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on October 21, 2011, 01:47:29 PM
Is there any new layout from anybody?
If not, this one is good, right?

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)

Thanks

sorry, I've got a functional PCB layout, I just keep forgetting to post it. I'll try to get it on here when I get home.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jvanginkel on November 23, 2011, 08:04:51 PM
I LOVE my Taptation controlled Fab Echo. I housed it in a box I had laying around, so its not attractive but I really like the sound. The Modulation circuit is very nice and shimmery on the high speed as well. I also made a jack so that I can connect the momentary from this to the momentary for my Tap Tempo Tremolo from musicpcb and control the pulse of both of them at the same time! Its so convenient. Thank you Aron, Tonegod and all the people who helped me troubleshoot even though they didn't know it. I used the Rev. B Vero layout rom au_loki which made it so easy. I made a quick youtube video of the pedal walking through the features.[ Invalid YouTube link ].


Joel
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RonaldB on December 05, 2011, 12:31:51 AM
Hello,
I have a Taptation controller to for my PT80 echo. Works great but I have one wierd problem.
The delay time goes way of to reverb times (really short delay). I goes like this.

1. I tap in my delay time.
2. That's stable at lets say 380 ms for sometimes minutes and sometimes a couple of seconds.
3. Then i see the tempo speed LED go faster and faster and i hear a pitch bend in my playing.
4. The delay time now is way of and is now lets say 10ms.

What's the problem here?

RonaldB

Ps. other than that it's a great product.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on December 07, 2011, 02:38:57 AM
Hello,
I have a Taptation controller to for my PT80 echo. Works great but I have one wierd problem.
The delay time goes way of to reverb times (really short delay). I goes like this.

1. I tap in my delay time.
2. That's stable at lets say 380 ms for sometimes minutes and sometimes a couple of seconds.
3. Then i see the tempo speed LED go faster and faster and i hear a pitch bend in my playing.
4. The delay time now is way of and is now lets say 10ms.

What's the problem here?

Are you tapping in the time or using the delay pot ? Can you monitor your voltage supply while this is happening to see if the voltage supply is changing during this cycle ?

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RonaldB on December 07, 2011, 03:29:48 AM
Im using both, I isolated one problem.
I had the tap tempo switch been triggerd by a 2N3904 combo (as mentioned in the TAPLFO2 doc by electric druid) for external triggering.
But the wires from the 2N3904 to the board where to long (500mm) so i think i got some jitter on the line. Because i have about 8 effects in one housing.

So the tap tempo now is stable. The only other thing now occuring is that i have the taptation set to dotted8 notes.
That's stable and i play that for a while, but then suddenly the rate changes to 1/4 notes. I will have to check the wiring for that.
Is that possible that the MCP44100 needs to be more close to the PT2399? Becaus now it is about 13cm away from the chip.

thanks for the replay, i will monitor my power supply when playing with the taptation.

RonaldB
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: served on December 07, 2011, 10:40:49 AM
Can taptempo handle tremulous lune?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on December 08, 2011, 01:00:46 AM
So the tap tempo now is stable. The only other thing now occuring is that i have the taptation set to dotted8 notes.
That's stable and i play that for a while, but then suddenly the rate changes to 1/4 notes. I will have to check the wiring for that.
Is that possible that the MCP44100 needs to be more close to the PT2399? Becaus now it is about 13cm away from the chip.

Well the length will affect the accuracy but it should not have anything to do with the sudden switching between time division. I would suggest adjusting the 100K resistor connected to the division selecting switch.

Can taptempo handle tremulous lune?

The TapTation offers a triangle LFO but it is not intended to control a stock temulous lune.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RonaldB on December 08, 2011, 02:14:58 PM
So the tap tempo now is stable. The only other thing now occuring is that i have the taptation set to dotted8 notes.
That's stable and i play that for a while, but then suddenly the rate changes to 1/4 notes. I will have to check the wiring for that.
Is that possible that the MCP44100 needs to be more close to the PT2399? Becaus now it is about 13cm away from the chip.

Well the length will affect the accuracy but it should not have anything to do with the sudden switching between time division. I would suggest adjusting the 100K resistor connected to the division selecting switch.

Andrew

I tried this with a higher value, 150K but still now luck, The taptation goes crazzy after a few minuts.
I Think I will rebuilt the PCB again and change the location to. Maybe I made an error somewhere.
I tried the Taptation on a breadboard today and i worked fine.
So it should work oke in my pedal to.

RonaldB
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RonaldB on December 10, 2011, 08:00:22 AM
I tried the taptation outside of my multifx box and now it works fine.
I think i have so jitter on the ground wires so the taptation picks that up on the tap tempo input.
I think i will put the taptation with my PT80 delay in a new stompbox.

RonaldB
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: RonaldB on December 16, 2011, 09:11:09 AM
Problem solved, I put the taptaion in a dedicated box and now it works fine. ;D
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jaw13nz on December 21, 2011, 06:22:11 AM
So is there an up to date how to for this?
Or a PCB version that just goes straight into a pedal?
I bought a new cheap Joyo digital delay just to do this sort of thing.

Thanks guys!!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Gaetano Capuano on January 18, 2012, 09:45:27 AM
I LOVE my Taptation controlled Fab Echo. I housed it in a box I had laying around, so its not attractive but I really like the sound. The Modulation circuit is very nice and shimmery on the high speed as well. I also made a jack so that I can connect the momentary from this to the momentary for my Tap Tempo Tremolo from musicpcb and control the pulse of both of them at the same time! Its so convenient. Thank you Aron, Tonegod and all the people who helped me troubleshoot even though they didn't know it. I used the Rev. B Vero layout rom au_loki which made it so easy. I made a quick youtube video of the pedal walking through the features.[ Invalid YouTube link ].


Joel
Dude, lets see that video? And any one else done the fab echo taptation mod?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on January 18, 2012, 07:57:36 PM
Dude, lets see that video? And any one else done the fab echo taptation mod?

The original video seems to be gone but here is one from his channel with the completed build.



Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on January 20, 2012, 12:21:36 PM
So is there an up to date how to for this?
Or a PCB version that just goes straight into a pedal?
I bought a new cheap Joyo digital delay just to do this sort of thing.

Thanks guys!!

there isn't a hand-holding step by step "how to" but there is a PCB layout earlier in the thread. buy the kit, etch the board, wire it in. Pretty straight forward, all the connections are detailed in the documentation.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Gaetano Capuano on January 20, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
There is a pcb for it here.    http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: vamp on February 15, 2012, 04:13:45 AM
HELLO.....

I'NEED PTAP VERSION 2 LAYOUT TO CONTROL TWO PT2399 SIMULTANEOUSLY.....

SOMEONE HAVE IT????

THANK'S FOR SUPPORT............
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on February 17, 2012, 03:21:33 PM
There is a pcb for it here.    http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536

Is C3 on the layout at http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536 needed? Isn't it redundant because you already have C1? Or do you need both caps for filtering? Thanks
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 07, 2012, 12:18:04 PM
I think what he means is that you can't just hook the output of one up to the tempo input of the other. If you do this the second one won't change tempo because it needs a gap between pulses of at least the maximum tempo time before it changes (from page 5 of the data sheet).
What you need to do is wait until the first one has changed to the new tempo, then send a couple of pulses from it to the second one. Shouldn't be too hard to do this, I'll have a think about it.

Resurrecting an old question. Did anyone ever find a good solution to syncing two taptation controllers (parallel delays), so that switching tempo selection doesn't throw them off? Maybe having to re-tap after any tempo selection changes is not that big a deal...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 07, 2012, 02:57:32 PM
Second question: Tap disable. I'd like to use a toggle switch to disable the tap input and force the taptation to read from the Time pot. Switching from tap to manual should disable the tap input and trigger the taptation controller to read Time from the pot (with out having to jiggle the knob). Could a DPDT be used, where one side would disconnect the tap input while the other side just momentarily open circuit the connection to the Time pot?

The other way would be to not have the Time pot connected to the Taptation, but instead switch in after the digital pot. But I would like to keep the Tempo LED from the Taptation when reading from the Time pot.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 14, 2012, 02:18:48 AM
Third question... hope someone notices and replies  :)

I have two taptation circuits now, that I want to test. I have them wired up on breadboard per the application note, including modulation, but not yet connected to a PT2399 delay. Eventually I want to experiment with synchronization between them.

However, I can't seem to get the tempo scale right, and I'm wondering if there is an error in the documentation. I get 1/1 divisions (quarter notes) with Double Time (pin12) open, and Tempo Scale Input (pin 13) VCC. The documentation says that this should be 1/2 tempo (eighth notes). By this I mean I have both LEDs flashing in unison when I set pin 13 to VCC. If I set it to Ground, I get 1/2 tempo divisions (the tempo scale pin 5 flashes twice for each tempo clock pin 3).

I'm tapping by touching wire to ground. Pin 4, pulse input, is left open.

Thanks for any help.
Travis

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on March 15, 2012, 02:38:25 AM
Second question: Tap disable. I'd like to use a toggle switch to disable the tap input and force the taptation to read from the Time pot. Switching from tap to manual should disable the tap input and trigger the taptation controller to read Time from the pot (with out having to jiggle the knob). Could a DPDT be used, where one side would disconnect the tap input while the other side just momentarily open circuit the connection to the Time pot?

The other way would be to not have the Time pot connected to the Taptation, but instead switch in after the digital pot. But I would like to keep the Tempo LED from the Taptation when reading from the Time pot.

Switching from tap to manual can only be done currently by changing the time pot. One idea could be put a momentary switch that grounds the time pot input causing the TapTation to switch to manual mode then when you release the switch the pot is read and the time set according. There is no need then to disconnect the tap input. The only time the tap input affects the delay time setting is when the input is grounded atleast twice within the maximum time. Otherwise you can leave it alone.

However, I can't seem to get the tempo scale right, and I'm wondering if there is an error in the documentation. I get 1/1 divisions (quarter notes) with Double Time (pin12) open, and Tempo Scale Input (pin 13) VCC. The documentation says that this should be 1/2 tempo (eighth notes). By this I mean I have both LEDs flashing in unison when I set pin 13 to VCC. If I set it to Ground, I get 1/2 tempo divisions (the tempo scale pin 5 flashes twice for each tempo clock pin 3).

There is nothing wrong in the documentation atleast at that level of error otherwise it would have been brought up already and corrected.

You do know that pin 13 is for the time pot and not scale input ? ;)

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 15, 2012, 03:13:44 PM
There is nothing wrong in the documentation atleast at that level of error otherwise it would have been brought up already and corrected.

You do know that pin 13 is for the time pot and not scale input ? ;)

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 15, 2012, 09:30:50 PM
Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.

Okay, so I have two taptation circuits breadboarded side by side. Both are behaving exactly the same. I'm using a 5v regulator for VCC. Tempo Scale Input correctly has a 100K pull-down resistor, and the voltages switch from 5v, 1.25V and 0V. I get three different tempos from these three settings. Doubletime to ground correctly doubles each setting.

With doubletime unconnected:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/1 (Scaled LED and tempo LED synced)

With doubletime grounded:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/4 (four Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)

With Temp Scale to 1.25V using 100K pulldown, it looks like 3/4 and 3/8 to me without and with doubletime. This is per the document.

So, how could Tempo scale work backwards between 0V and 5V?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Johnny B on March 16, 2012, 09:23:46 AM
Has anyone used the Taptation tap tempo controller to build a tap tempo analog delay?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on March 16, 2012, 05:20:07 PM
Resurrecting an old question. Did anyone ever find a good solution to syncing two taptation controllers (parallel delays), so that switching tempo selection doesn't throw them off? Maybe having to re-tap after any tempo selection changes is not that big a deal...

So I've been testing this a bit. One thing I noticed was that when tapping one taptation circuit I could sometimes trigger the other taptation to resync to the Time pot. I put each taptation onto its own 5V regulator and that cleaned up whatever voltage drop that was triggering the other circuit. The final circuit design, adding in the PT2399 and modulation circuits, will need to be pretty clean for power and ground for consistent operation.

For syncing, it's clear there's no way with the current code to do a continuous cross-sync. When the taptation receives a new tap input, it looks like it affects the tempo clock right away and starts its new tempo once the input time window is done. So a continuous or periodic sync signal would be disruptive. Also, changing and resetting the tempo scale or double time causes the tempo to go out of phase, depending on exactly when you toggle the switches... but the tempo frequency is maintained. I found that using a single tap input to both taptations reliably gave a syncrhonized response, assuming you don't switch the tempo scale or double time.

I'm okay with this... just means that I'll have to retap anytime I change the tempo scale or double time. Here's what I'd like to do next:
1. A frequency/phase comparator so that I can compare the two taptation tempo outputs and light an LED when they are In Sync / In Phase
(I think there might be a number of ways to do this)
2. A Scaled Tempo period digital display in msec.
(I'm wondering if there is a prebuilt LCD circuit for this that would be easy to hook up)
(Update: I see lots of frequency counter display kits out there, but looks like I'd have to program my own PIC to get a Time Period display in msec.)

Any ideas or suggestions on these two ideas?

I'm also planning to compare the Echobase vs Taptation modulation, and decide if I want both (switchable, or one of each on the two delay circuits). I'm also planning to play with series vs parallel for the polyrythmic settings. If I like both, not sure if I'll use a toggle switch or switching jacks to give both options.

Here's what my breadboard looks like right now:
(http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h359/travispike/DualTap.jpg)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Barcode80 on March 21, 2012, 04:34:13 PM
Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.

Okay, so I have two taptation circuits breadboarded side by side. Both are behaving exactly the same. I'm using a 5v regulator for VCC. Tempo Scale Input correctly has a 100K pull-down resistor, and the voltages switch from 5v, 1.25V and 0V. I get three different tempos from these three settings. Doubletime to ground correctly doubles each setting.

With doubletime unconnected:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/1 (Scaled LED and tempo LED synced)

With doubletime grounded:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/4 (four Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)

With Temp Scale to 1.25V using 100K pulldown, it looks like 3/4 and 3/8 to me without and with doubletime. This is per the document.

So, how could Tempo scale work backwards between 0V and 5V?

I brought this up earlier, no one seemed to notice:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86294.msg777211#msg777211 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86294.msg777211#msg777211)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: norim_13 on May 03, 2012, 04:53:30 PM
Hi!
Since it was the last one posted, I am going to follow this layout:

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)

Some questions about it:
1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"?
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use?

Best regards
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: au_loki on May 08, 2012, 10:38:32 PM
Hellooooooo
The layout is good but just watch the off-board wiring as the GND goes off-board & back on again (you can put another jumper in if you want)
If you check out the Application notes from the link on the first page your questions 1 & 2 will be answered.
For the Echo Base make the other vero layout (without the modulation - back a few pages) & use the on board Echo Base modulation.

All the best au_loki
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Jdansti on May 18, 2012, 10:52:31 PM
Hi!
Since it was the last one posted, I am going to follow this layout:

(http://i51.tinypic.com/r19z10.png)

Some questions about it:
1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"?
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use?

Best regards


The blue rectangles are switches. I'm not an expert on this, so you might want to read this doc: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation.pdf

1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"? See page 8 of the above doc.
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?  See page 7 of the above doc.
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use? Maybe someone more knowledgable than I can answer this.

Have fun with it!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on June 01, 2012, 08:36:11 PM
Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap. 

I am at my wits end. I really think it has something to do with the debounce network but I just don't know. HELP!! Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on June 04, 2012, 12:27:42 PM
bump.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on June 05, 2012, 03:38:15 PM
Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply. :icon_redface:

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on June 06, 2012, 10:10:33 AM
Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply. :icon_redface:

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew

Hey Andrew, Thanks for the reply! I know your busy and I don't mean to take up your time.
The 100k is coming off of the 5v and I tripple checked that it is indeed 100k. The voltage on the switch side of the 100k goes from 4.89v when not pressed to 0.00v when pressed. And the voltage on the other side of the 100K is a constant 5.02v whether the switch is pressed or not. Weird eh?

Here is my layout. It's a highly modified pt80 layout from GGG that incorporates the Taptation. https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg) See anything that doesn't look right?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on June 09, 2012, 07:14:42 AM
Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply. :icon_redface:

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew

Hey Andrew, Thanks for the reply! I know your busy and I don't mean to take up your time.
The 100k is coming off of the 5v and I tripple checked that it is indeed 100k. The voltage on the switch side of the 100k goes from 4.89v when not pressed to 0.00v when pressed. And the voltage on the other side of the 100K is a constant 5.02v whether the switch is pressed or not. Weird eh?

Here is my layout. It's a highly modified pt80 layout from GGG that incorporates the Taptation. https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg) See anything that doesn't look right?

Alright, I think I fixed the problem. All I did is move the 0.1uf on the debounce network from my board and attached it right across the lugs of the tap tempo switch. I'm not sure how this fixed it as the 0.1uf is still going from 5v to ground but it did. Thanks anyway! The Taptation is great!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on June 21, 2012, 11:44:50 PM
Where can I buy more taptation kits!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: MelodiusMaximus on June 22, 2012, 10:04:24 AM
I noticed that too.  I was about to order a few and can't find them now?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Levispeights on June 22, 2012, 10:07:22 AM
Go here...

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=65
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: R O Tiree on June 25, 2012, 12:07:29 PM
Go here...

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=65

"Sorry, the product was not found."

Permission for lower lip to wobble, Sir?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on June 30, 2012, 10:28:19 AM
So I built this on the veroboard layout hooked to a rebote 2.5. Audio works perfectly. But when the adapter is first plugged in the less blink extremely fast. Only with turning the time pot fully clockwise and waiting for a minute do the leds calm down and then I can use the time pot as normal with leds behaving normally. Again even with the leds acting this way, the audio does exactly what its supposed to. Help?
[/quote]
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on June 30, 2012, 01:45:28 PM
Im using bright 5mm leds with 1k each. Maybe there's too much current draw and I need to increase the resistors? Hello...... anyone out there?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on June 30, 2012, 02:37:31 PM
Finally got it to work! Resoldered the time pot along with its resistor and capacitor. It is unbelievable how sensitive this thing is to good solder joints and joints being separate from one another.

Use a fresh solder iron tip as well as acetone prepared board from the start!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on June 30, 2012, 03:58:49 PM
Damn it! It's doing it again! Is there a bad capacitor??? It's almost like the pedal has to "warm up" before the LEDS blink correctly.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on July 02, 2012, 02:50:52 AM
Is this a regulated adapter? I wonder if it's some sort of power issue?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on July 02, 2012, 06:43:21 AM
Its a 9v boss adapter. I thought those were ok with this circuit.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on July 02, 2012, 08:49:58 PM
I doubt whatever problem you are having is due to a "bad chip". I can send you another to try if you want. Did you verify these conditions?

Power Supply
A clean stable power supply delivering between 2.4V and 5.5V is required for
operation. In addition to power supply filtering a 0.1uF capacitor should be
mounted as close as possible to the TapTation's Vcc / GND pins. A ceramic
capacitor is sufficient for this function.
If the controller is going to be used with a PT2399 based circuit then it is likely
the same power supply for the PT2399 can also be used to power the TapTation
controller but attention should paid to make sure the power supply can handle
the extra current loads of the TapTation controller, digital potentiometer, and any
other loads like LEDs.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on July 02, 2012, 08:52:10 PM
Yep! I read those sections from the pdf's many times...
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on July 03, 2012, 03:46:20 PM
Sorry for the slow reply. It was the Canadian Day long weekend here so I wasn't around.

Just doing a quick run through your messages and the first thing I would try changing is the 1uF cap you have on the delay time pot input network. That value seems to be very high and could almost turn the filter network into a voltage delay since the input pin pulls almost no current. Drop the cap value down. To further test measure the voltage at the TapTation pin's input while change the pot value and see how fast it responds. I'm betting it will be slow thus the tap time will change slowly.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on July 21, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
I was wondering if someone could keep me strategies to prevent the "clicking" with the tempo LEDs from happening. I've attached a video to show you what I mean (turn your volume up to hear the clicking.) These are non-clear yellow and green 3mm LEDs with 1K resistors each. The power supply is 9V 250mA from Voodoo Labs Power Plus 2.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on July 21, 2012, 10:46:12 PM
*teach me strategies*
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: artifus on July 21, 2012, 11:04:59 PM
more generally referred to as 'ticking' which is why your search query may not have brought up much. maybe try 'deticking' for more results. i would start by increasing those resistor values.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on July 21, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
Thanks for the reply. How far up would you go with the resistor values before you say, "This is not working... I need to try something else." Would going up to 4.7K be enough for each LED?

I also forgot to mention that the rebote 2.5 and taptation circuit in the pedal are from a shared 9V source.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: artifus on July 21, 2012, 11:19:43 PM
should only effect led brightness. they will get dimmer as you increase the value.

*also* a large cap, at least 100uf, across the power supply input if not already present, assuming that both circuits already have their own. if not, add them.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: visualdistortion on August 05, 2012, 05:55:13 PM
Hi friends, I've buyed the taptation kit few weeks ago, and I've used it with the Deep Blue Delay and the vero from IvIark
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.fr/2012/03/pt2399-tap-tempo-daughterboard.html

It sounds great, but I've a little problem from the Tempo Scale switch! When it's on Off position (center) I can hear a big noise (on ground?) when I use my Ernie Ball Volume wired before it... BUT the delay is OFF/BYPASS! Very strange things. I think two of the three positions of this switch make noise or kind of "click".

Thanks for your help, and excuse me for my bad english.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 06, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
should only effect led brightness. they will get dimmer as you increase the value.

*also* a large cap, at least 100uf, across the power supply input if not already present, assuming that both circuits already have their own. if not, add them.

Just as a reference for other builds:
I got ticking from the leds (I had to turn up my amp quite a bit) when I switched the power supply of my PT80 with taptation from an isolated multi outlet power supply to a 1-spot with daisy chains.
A 100uf across the power supply of the taptation and a 100R resistor in series with the power supply solved the ticking. I can now use it with no problems with both power supplies.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: remmelt on August 06, 2012, 06:44:03 PM
Quote
Some delay designs use a 50K potentiometer for control of the delay
time. The TapTation controller can simulate this potentiometer value
by connecting the Tempo Double Time input to ground. This will
roughly limit the digital potentiometer to the lower half of the
potentiometer thus keeping the maximum value to approximately 50K.

I would like to use the Taptation with an Echo Base. The EB uses a 50K lin pot for delay time.

My questions:

1) Do I still use a 100K lin pot for the time setting? (The one connected to pin 13 of the Taptation)
2) Would this halve the resolution of the digital pot? (If so, does it matter?)
3) Can I still use the Tempo Double Time Input for its intended purpose?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: remmelt on August 08, 2012, 03:27:51 AM
More questions:

"It's that simple. Instead of wiring the time pot to the echo base board, you wire it per the schematic to the taptation circuit. Then just wire +5v, ground, and pin 6 of the PT2399 to the taptation circuit as indicated in the taptation schematic and you are in business." (source (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/album170/echobaserev2.png.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1))

Echo Base v2 schematic (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/slackers-stuff/album170/echobaserev2.png.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

4) In the EB schematic, the Time pot (connected to the PT's pin 6) has a connection to the collector of the BC560 on the other side. What do I do with that connection? Can I just leave it open? I'm planning on using the EB's modulation for now.
5) The original 50K time pot: do I just take this out of the circuit?
6) If I want to use a 50K pot instead of the supplied 100K one, can I just substitute the MCP41100 for a MCP41050? Is this even necessary?

I'm busy getting this to work on my breadboard, then I can probably answer some of these questions by just poking around. I want to minimize the number of possible failing points though, is why I'm asking in here!


Title: Re: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on August 08, 2012, 06:03:52 AM
The EB will work fine with a 100k pot, the longer delay times will be a bit noisy, but no more than any other PT2399 based pedal, so you can use the taptation in 100k mode.
To use it with the EB's modulation you just connect the digital pot in place of the time pot, between pin 6 of the PT2399 and the transistor. You may want to a 1k resistor in series, as per the taptation datasheet.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on August 13, 2012, 11:26:11 PM
Any other suggestions? Tried this and still here ticking.

should only effect led brightness. they will get dimmer as you increase the value.

*also* a large cap, at least 100uf, across the power supply input if not already present, assuming that both circuits already have their own. if not, add them.

Just as a reference for other builds:
I got ticking from the leds (I had to turn up my amp quite a bit) when I switched the power supply of my PT80 with taptation from an isolated multi outlet power supply to a 1-spot with daisy chains.
A 100uf across the power supply of the taptation and a 100R resistor in series with the power supply solved the ticking. I can now use it with no problems with both power supplies.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 14, 2012, 01:19:50 PM
Any other suggestions? Tried this and still here ticking

How do you power the taptation ? Do you have it run on its own 5 volt regulator and have its own ground? Then with the filtering as I posted it is working fine for me.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on August 14, 2012, 07:54:10 PM
yes it does have it's own 5V regulator... the regulator is receiving it's 9v from the shared 9v source... what do you mean by it's own ground? the ground of the taptation and the echo circuit are tied together.

Any other suggestions? Tried this and still here ticking

How do you power the taptation ? Do you have it run on its own 5 volt regulator and have its own ground? Then with the filtering as I posted it is working fine for me.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on August 15, 2012, 02:32:17 AM
Keep the ground separate up to only one point in your build. e.g. the ground on the input jack or the dc input. But you might have that already.
Did you keep the connection from the taptation to pin 6 short? It says in the datasheet that that is a part that could pick up noise.
Maybe try another orientation of the pcb's in your build.

Best,
Marc
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Beo on August 15, 2012, 02:57:34 AM
If you are making your own PCB, it helps to identify digital signals versus analog (i.e. audio carrying paths). Keeping the digital grounds connected to each other, and the analog ground to each other, and only letting the two meet at one connection is best. Connect your ground wire near this connection and send to your ground point (input jack) lets all digital and audio ground drain to the enclosure without affecting each other. I usually use ground pour polygons to cover my audio devices and paths, and connect digital grounds only using line traces.

If you are using perf or vero, not sure what I can suggestion. If there's a way to do the layout to keep digital ground separate from audio ground until one point, that is best. I noticed on the breadboard with a dual delay setup that separate 5v regulation for digital chips (taptation) vs audio carrying chips (opamp, pt2399, 4066) was important.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: quad on August 15, 2012, 06:08:27 AM
Hey guys,

I did a layout today, but it's for a modified version. I don't want a Double Time switch, nor do I want a switch for the time divisions. I also didn't need the modulation, and so I left that out entirely. Since the tap time is quarter notes the way I set it up, I just used one LED for the indicator, instead of one for the tempo and one for the divisions. I also put an onboard 5v regulator and 9V input, that way it can be used very easily.

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/715/taptationlayout.png) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/taptationlayout.png/)

So, it's just a quarter note tap tempo controller with an indicator LED this way. Whatcha think? I'll be getting someone to etch me a copy of this in the near future, and I'll verify it before I post any other documentation.

Jacob

Will this layout work? Momentary switch to tap in the delay time is all I need. Besides that, I have no room for a momentary switch on my enclosure, which is already packed in tight. I was thinking of putting the momentary switch nearby in a different (very small) enclosure by using a 2.1 jack, for instance. Two wires is all I need. Is that correct?

One more question: the time pot. Do I have to disconnect the time pot from the delay itself and connect it to the taptation PCB time terminals?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on August 17, 2012, 09:12:54 PM
Long story short - I'm developing a PCB you can buy to run the Taptation. Actually, I'll have three available - a mini version, a basic version, a modulating version.

Stay tuned to JMK PCBs for more details in the future: http://www.jmkpedals.com/JMK_Pedals/JMK_PCBs.html (http://www.jmkpedals.com/JMK_Pedals/JMK_PCBs.html)

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jimosity on September 05, 2012, 08:44:05 AM
Looks like the taptation kit is not available in the store.
Is there somewhere else I can purchase or will it be back in stock soon?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Moonibopper on September 07, 2012, 01:39:36 AM
If you are making your own PCB, it helps to identify digital signals versus analog (i.e. audio carrying paths). Keeping the digital grounds connected to each other, and the analog ground to each other, and only letting the two meet at one connection is best. Connect your ground wire near this connection and send to your ground point (input jack) lets all digital and audio ground drain to the enclosure without affecting each other. I usually use ground pour polygons to cover my audio devices and paths, and connect digital grounds only using line traces.

If you are using perf or vero, not sure what I can suggestion. If there's a way to do the layout to keep digital ground separate from audio ground until one point, that is best. I noticed on the breadboard with a dual delay setup that separate 5v regulation for digital chips (taptation) vs audio carrying chips (opamp, pt2399, 4066) was important.

So when the rebote 2.5 with taptation on perf is hooked up with a true bypass pedal before it the ticking is minimal. When its a buffered bypass pedal before it, its gone. When the input jack of the delay is unplugged the ticking is really loud. Does this help sort out the ticking at all?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jimosity on September 14, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Is the PCB above verified?
What are the part values or did I miss them posted somewhere else?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on September 16, 2012, 02:18:23 AM
Jim, I'll be releasing some PCBs you can purchase shortly. I'm waiting for more taptation chips to arrive so I can verify the layouts. If you'd like more info, you can PM me.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Cannibal on October 17, 2012, 05:56:27 AM
sorrry if this seems a silly question but i am new to this kind of stuff. If i don't want to have led indicators for tempo subdivisions should I ground the resistor or leave the pin unconnected? Also i wanna thank you all since i learned almonst everything from this forum.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 17, 2012, 05:23:13 PM
sorrry if this seems a silly question but i am new to this kind of stuff. If i don't want to have led indicators for tempo subdivisions should I ground the resistor or leave the pin unconnected? Also i wanna thank you all since i learned almonst everything from this forum.

This is not a silly question, it would only be silly to not ask. :)

If you don't want an LED just leave the pin unconnected. You don't need the resistor from the pin either.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on November 03, 2012, 02:15:50 AM
If you haven't become aware yet, JMK PCBs has released Taptation PCBs (with permission of TTG), and are now for sale. Check them out at the website if you're interested.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: hammy9 on November 15, 2012, 12:00:07 PM
I recently just build the Echo Base and am using the Taptation to control it (using the taptation pcb from guitarpcb).  The tap tempo and time divisions work great  :)  I am having trouble getting the modulation of the EB (not Taptations modulation) to work properly.  i tested it without the taptation connected and using the regular time pot and mod works fine.  I also tried feeding the BC560 of EB with pin 7 of the digital pot (I've left the mod part of the Taptation unconnected).  I get some modulation but the tempo is almost half of what the tempo LED says it should be.  Any ideas?

Thanks!
Ryan
Title: Re: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Valoosj on December 22, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
The EB will work fine with a 100k pot, the longer delay times will be a bit noisy, but no more than any other PT2399 based pedal, so you can use the taptation in 100k mode.
To use it with the EB's modulation you just connect the digital pot in place of the time pot, between pin 6 of the PT2399 and the transistor. You may want to a 1k resistor in series, as per the taptation datasheet.

So pin 5 and 6 of the MCP go to pin 6 of the PT2399. And where do you add the collector of the BC560 and the 39K and 1K then?

I'm making my own layout so I need to keep analog and digital ground separate. Digital ground is everything involving the taptation and the PT2399 IC?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: scalefreak on December 28, 2012, 02:24:27 AM
After perusing the interwebs for weeks looking for a pcb of either the pt-80 with the taptation and all features included or just a taptation pcb with all features, it looks like there are none available. I have built a pt-80 with the taptation and want to build another, but the box I want to cram it in.......I just need more room. Has anyone done a pcb that works yet. I'll etch my own if I have to, just wondering if anyone has a layout or a resource for acquiring one.

Hey! After years of lurking and making use of the wealth of info here, I finally registered and posted! Woot!

Thanks guys!

Chris
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Marcvv on December 28, 2012, 02:48:38 AM
Three posts up  ;)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: scalefreak on December 28, 2012, 03:02:08 AM
Three posts up  ;)

I tried buying it before I posted and they were unavailable.  :icon_sad:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on January 04, 2013, 01:49:52 PM
Three posts up  ;)

I tried buying it before I posted and they were unavailable.  :icon_sad:

They will be back in stock shortly!

I'm also working on an implementation document, showing how to combine the Taptation with many of the popular DIY Delays available.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on January 23, 2013, 12:43:14 AM
I just wanted to note that Taptation boards, all three of them, and the JMK Modular Delay are now in stock and selling at www.jmkpcbs.com (http://www.jmkpcbs.com).

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Chris oej on March 01, 2013, 02:27:33 PM
Hi,

I've wired the taptation up to an Echo Base I'm building - the Echo Base was working fine, until i put in the taptation board. I bought the pcb from the the below link:

http://www.jmkpcbs.com/JMK_PCBs/Store_files/%20Mini%20Taptation.pdf

With the taptation wired in, the delay has just got really slow. The delay pot and tap do nothing. The LED does nothing. I accidentally made a bridge between the 9v input to the board and the pin 6 input. The taptation board started working although there was no delay signal. After releasing the bridge the delay was at the new tempo. I measured the voltage of the voltage regulator (78L05) and it's only giving 2.3v. Should it not be closer to 5v?

I'm really baffled as to what the problem is. Am i right in thinking that the momentary switch for the tap should be open and the beat of the tap is the closing of the switch?

Thanks for all the help.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: ainokami on March 16, 2013, 02:50:38 AM
has anyone encountered the following problem? in my build, it seems to take a few seconds before the tempo change takes effect.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jkokura on April 07, 2013, 02:47:31 PM
has anyone encountered the following problem? in my build, it seems to take a few seconds before the tempo change takes effect.

I'd call it about a second. And yes, that's normal.

Jacob
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jasonsguild on April 17, 2013, 09:51:17 AM
Has anyone had luck with using a MCP42100 with the Taptation on a dual pt2399 delay?  I gave it a go on my breadboard, but it seems that the digital pot is stuck at the mid level delay setting.  The tempo switch and delay pot are both controlling the Taptation correctly (based on the tempo led), but are not changing the length of the actual delay.  My guess is that Im doing something wrong with the shutdown & reset pins on the MCP42100 (should reset be at 5v and shutdown be grounded?).  Any tips or insight? ???

Thanks,

J
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on April 18, 2013, 06:39:57 PM
Has anyone had luck with using a MCP42100 with the Taptation on a dual pt2399 delay?  I gave it a go on my breadboard, but it seems that the digital pot is stuck at the mid level delay setting.  The tempo switch and delay pot are both controlling the Taptation correctly (based on the tempo led), but are not changing the length of the actual delay.  My guess is that Im doing something wrong with the shutdown & reset pins on the MCP42100 (should reset be at 5v and shutdown be grounded?).  Any tips or insight? ???

Subbing a MCP42100 will not work because the communication protocol used by the MCP41100 is slightly different then the MCP42100. You would have better luck using two MCP41100 and wiring their three communication pins (pins 1, 2, and 3) in parallel. Still its not a sure way to do things but it would atleast it would start to work.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: thevintagesound on June 03, 2013, 04:21:46 PM
Is there a way to shorten the delay time that the taptation takes to kick in? I am trying it out with a PT-80 board from GGG. Everything works just fine just trying to shorten up the reaction time.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on June 04, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
Is there a way to shorten the delay time that the taptation takes to kick in? I am trying it out with a PT-80 board from GGG. Everything works just fine just trying to shorten up the reaction time.

No or atleast not without modifying the software. The reason for the delay is the TapTation is waiting to see if anymore taps are coming. If no taps come within the maximum delay time it then applies the average of the taps entered as the new delay setting. When developing I did try to change the delay time on the fly but when doing that the pitch shift caused by changing the delay time made the sound very unnerving. The max timeout was the best option as it offered the least obtrusive changing cycle.

This may change in the next version though. ;)

Andrew

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: theroan on June 05, 2013, 11:20:41 AM
I want build a tap tempo switch to control multiple devices. As far as I know this is a simple build, but to have an LED track your tapping is another story. Any know how this could be done, I know that I'll need a micro controller hence why I posted here.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mistahead on June 18, 2013, 12:39:34 AM
Uh - yeah - you are posting in a thread about a kit for just a thing that is sold to support the community...

Perhaps an attempt at reading here before posting here, where here is literally a thread of the topic you have opened.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Chris oej on August 03, 2013, 07:13:56 AM
Is it possible to fit a Taptation to an EA Tremolo?

http://beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_EATremolo.pdf

Maybe some tweeking and tuning will be in order, but in theory it seems to me like it could work.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on August 03, 2013, 10:12:07 AM
Is it possible to fit a Taptation to an EA Tremolo?

http://beavisaudio.com/bboard/projects/bbp_EATremolo.pdf

Maybe some tweeking and tuning will be in order, but in theory it seems to me like it could work.



Are you talking about using the modulation portion of the taptation to control the JFET in the EA Tremolo?

I'm sure it could, but why would you want to use the taptation for that? Are you incorporating tremolo into your delay design?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Chris oej on August 03, 2013, 01:01:54 PM
No, I just want to control the speed of the tremolo with a tap control. Essentially replace the speed potentiometer with a taptation circuit. I was wondering if anyone's used a taptation circuit for anything other than PT2399 based effects and how they modified it to do so.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on August 04, 2013, 08:13:22 AM
No, I just want to control the speed of the tremolo with a tap control. Essentially replace the speed potentiometer with a taptation circuit. I was wondering if anyone's used a taptation circuit for anything other than PT2399 based effects and how they modified it to do so.

Seems like a bit of a waste of the taptation. There is a dedicated tap tempo tremolo out there.

Www.musicpcb.com

The tap tempo tremolo on that site is op amp based, but can be retrofitted onto the EA tremolo rather easily, I presume. It will likely end up a bit cheaper.

I'm sure others have made the EA tremolo with photocells before. Once you find that, replace the photocell in that project with the photocell from the tap tempo tremolo and you're set!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on August 09, 2013, 03:37:24 PM
You can't replace the pot in another LFO with the TapTation. It is specific to the PT2399. You can use the TapTation's PWM output to replace the LFO in something like a tremolo or phaser. In some cases you may need to rebias the signal so fit the circuits needs. That was one of the original reasons I added the PWM output as the tap tempo chip was not availible and I wanted to offer that function to DIYers. I was going to write an app note for that function but there are other options now.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: space_ryerson on August 12, 2013, 01:10:03 AM
You can't replace the pot in another LFO with the TapTation. It is specific to the PT2399. You can use the TapTation's PWM output to replace the LFO in something like a tremolo or phaser. In some cases you may need to rebias the signal so fit the circuits needs. That was one of the original reasons I added the PWM output as the tap tempo chip was not availible and I wanted to offer that function to DIYers. I was going to write an app note for that function but there are other options now.

Andrew
I'd be interested in that app note! Ironically, I was just putting together a delay circuit with the TapTation, and was thinking of adding synced tremolo in the same box. My plan was to have the TapTation PWM output drive a LED, and use the LDR/amp section of the Tremulus Lune for the tremolo effect.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mugenzi on August 14, 2013, 12:05:11 PM
I'm looking for a way to control a Pigtronix Tremvelope pedal, which has an expression pedal input, but using a tap tempo footswitch to set time instead. Would the Taptation do that, attached to a tap footswitch? Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: YouAre on August 14, 2013, 01:09:53 PM
I'm looking for a way to control a Pigtronix Tremvelope pedal, which has an expression pedal input, but using a tap tempo footswitch to set time instead. Would the Taptation do that, attached to a tap footswitch? Thanks.

If I'm not mistaken, the Taptation's digital pot is specifically meant to interface with the PT2399's potentiometer input. I don't think it will drop in place of any resistor or potentiometer.

Even if you could replace a pot/resistor with the Taptation's digital pot, it most likely wouldn't provide an accurate tap tempo interface.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mugenzi on August 15, 2013, 04:16:01 PM
Shame, but thanks for the information.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: wrieker on September 07, 2013, 01:28:31 PM
I'm trying to get my taptation to work, my delay pedal works find without the tap set up but when i wire in the taptation. The timeing of the delay simply wont change. The LEDs  demonstrate time changes however. They blink in the correct patteren without any issue . You can hear a faint hiss every time the led goes on but thats about it. any clue what I've done wrong.

seeing as the delay circuit works fine, and i know the taptation circuit is at least registering the time changes from the switch should I expect this issue to be in the digital pot? any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on September 11, 2013, 06:35:32 PM
seeing as the delay circuit works fine, and i know the taptation circuit is at least registering the time changes from the switch should I expect this issue to be in the digital pot? any help would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like the delay is not interfacing with TapTation so it would be something with the digital pot. Either the pot is not connecting to the PT2399 or the control lines from the TapTation to the digital pot are not communicating. A quick test would be to measure the resistance of the digital pot at one tempo setting then try again at a vast different setting. If the reading is the same then the control lines are not hooked up properly. If it does change then the connection to the PT2399 is not correct.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: dickjonesify on October 27, 2013, 02:29:06 PM
I just got my PT2399 delay pedal outfitted with taptation!

My Freakshow FX Digilog before...

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--XSrPMgAXYU/Ufh7EPWQSlI/AAAAAAAACC8/SQXj6RCls_k/s400/photo.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2_STrd0Q0ZU/Uf20Fn3DefI/AAAAAAAACFo/49pbT5ntRu0/s400/photo.JPG)

and after...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0qQxwZUzzpg/UmxN53LXS0I/AAAAAAAACUw/IdlSpcrhP7o/s400/photo%25202.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KMTNJMG9J8Q/UmxN5WT68wI/AAAAAAAACUs/WXvnQVl7wVQ/s400/photo%25201.JPG)

Everything works great! 
One question:  The modulation speed seems a bit fast for subtlety.  It looks like you can double time it by grounding pin 7 of the taptation.  Is there a way to slow it down?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: dickjonesify on October 27, 2013, 02:32:44 PM
Also on modulation, I reused a 5K pot because it was already in there.  The demos I've heard sounded like I could get away with less modulation as I only want a subtle amount.  Even with a 5K pot, i can't turn it above 9 o'clock.   Was my strategy flawed?  Would a lower value pot help or no?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on October 30, 2013, 06:42:37 PM
Also on modulation, I reused a 5K pot because it was already in there.  The demos I've heard sounded like I could get away with less modulation as I only want a subtle amount.  Even with a 5K pot, i can't turn it above 9 o'clock.   Was my strategy flawed?  Would a lower value pot help or no?

Great work!  ;D

Using a 25K pot for the Time pot is fine. Nothing of real consequence will happen with a pot of smaller value.

The modulation time is set to match with the tempo of the delay. Yes a smaller pot (25KA in the datasheet diagram) will reduce the amount of modulation.

Glad you enjoy the TapTation. :)

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jvanginkel on November 07, 2013, 10:46:42 PM
I have a new delay using the taptation. It's a Rebote 2.5 with the taptation chip including modulation and the time division switch, but I omitted the double time and LFO half time options on this one. I also made an effects loop for it. It can get out of control pretty quickly, but you can dial in some cool sounds with it. In the video I made today, I put the EH Holy Grail (flurb setting) after a Mooer Pure Octave with one and two octaves up in the fx loop. So my dry signal is unaffected, but the delay signal has the octaves and the phaser type flurb thing. Without the Reverb the octaves sound interesting, but the flurb helps them take more of a back seat in the sound. The bad tracking of the double octave sounds intentional when the reverb softens it up. It sounds synthy and shimmery. I designed and etched a PCB with the Taptation and a basic buffer for the delay (after the effects loop). I also have an external tap.
http://youtu.be/A_09JHuxarc (http://youtu.be/A_09JHuxarc)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Jdansti on November 07, 2013, 10:53:27 PM
Sounds great! Great sounds!   :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jvanginkel on November 07, 2013, 11:42:12 PM
Sounds great! Great sounds!   :)

Thank you so much. I'm so happy with my overall sound right now, maybe I don't need to build anymore pedals (yeah right)!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: guitarplayer78 on December 01, 2013, 09:39:55 PM
Hi, the taptation works great, but I have problems with a clock noise even the pedal is off, can you please help me to fix this issue? tnks
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: LabyrinthAudio on December 03, 2013, 05:01:51 PM
Hi, the taptation works great, but I have problems with a clock noise even the pedal is off, can you please help me to fix this issue? tnks
I have this same issue on both of my builds (deep blue delay + taptation). Considerable time (weeks) has been spent taking these apart and incorporating smaller wire lead lengths, shielded I/O jack wires, grounded bypass 3PDT switch, checked all components, cuts, jumpers, traces, swapped different PT2399's, 100uF filter caps, and did mods to lower noise in the circuit. <- Try these fixes. Only thing I noticed is that the I/O jack wires are microphonic (can hear when you tap them in bypass) and due to space issues both boards are on top of each other with trace sides facing each board. At this point I'll have to get a PCB for the main board then put them in a new enclosure with the boards apart from each other. It's been an agonizing couple of weeks trying to get these to work right. Anything I'm missing here? thanks  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Jdansti on December 07, 2013, 02:44:01 PM
This is a shot in the dark, but it works on 555 timer chip and might work on the taptation. Place a 1000μF or greater capacitor on pin 1 of the taptation chip with the + lead as close as possible to the chip and the neg lead to ground.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: markusw on December 20, 2013, 03:19:52 AM
Sorry if this has been asked before.  :icon_redface:
The data sheet of the MCP41100 states 1 mA maximum current through the wiper.
At 25 ms delay the current will clearly be higher than 1 mA.
Does the MCP41100 survive this?

Regards,

Markus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: therealfindo on December 20, 2013, 04:16:14 AM
I have a new delay using the taptation. It's a Rebote 2.5 with the taptation chip including modulation and the time division switch, but I omitted the double time and LFO half time options on this one. I also made an effects loop for it. It can get out of control pretty quickly, but you can dial in some cool sounds with it. In the video I made today, I put the EH Holy Grail (flurb setting) after a Mooer Pure Octave with one and two octaves up in the fx loop. So my dry signal is unaffected, but the delay signal has the octaves and the phaser type flurb thing. Without the Reverb the octaves sound interesting, but the flurb helps them take more of a back seat in the sound. The bad tracking of the double octave sounds intentional when the reverb softens it up. It sounds synthy and shimmery. I designed and etched a PCB with the Taptation and a basic buffer for the delay (after the effects loop). I also have an external tap.
http://youtu.be/A_09JHuxarc (http://youtu.be/A_09JHuxarc)


Sounds great!

Are you willing to share that pcb layout?   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on December 20, 2013, 05:08:53 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before.  :icon_redface:
The data sheet of the MCP41100 states 1 mA maximum current through the wiper.
At 25 ms delay the current will clearly be higher than 1 mA.
Does the MCP41100 survive this?

The pot is just serial resistance for the simple clock circuit. The amount of actual current the PT2399 is using on that pin not above the 1mA.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: markusw on December 21, 2013, 03:26:30 AM
Sorry if this has been asked before.  :icon_redface:
The data sheet of the MCP41100 states 1 mA maximum current through the wiper.
At 25 ms delay the current will clearly be higher than 1 mA.
Does the MCP41100 survive this?

The pot is just serial resistance for the simple clock circuit. The amount of actual current the PT2399 is using on that pin not above the 1mA.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

thanks for your answer!  :)
I'm confused now.
Merlin states here http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/smalltime.html (http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/smalltime.html)
"Pin-6 of the PT2399 is a voltage source that rests at half the chip's supply voltage, which is provided by a 5V regulator in this case, so pin-6 will be at 2.5V. The current sucked out of this pin controls the delay time. An important thing to consider is that the current must not exceed 2.5mA when power is first applied or the chip is liable to burn out, so a 1k fixed resistor is included in series with the delay pot. "

Regards,

Markus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: dickjonesify on December 30, 2013, 11:40:24 PM
Hi, the taptation works great, but I have problems with a clock noise even the pedal is off, can you please help me to fix this issue? tnks

For me, it was the LED making the noise.  Added another 1K resistor to tame it a bit and the clicking went away.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jvanginkel on January 05, 2014, 02:29:04 AM


[/quote]

Sounds great!

Are you willing to share that pcb layout?   :icon_biggrin:
[/quote]

I'm willing. I know nothing about designing proper pcb layouts. I think the layout is on my other computer. I'll look for it sometime soon.  I also would not necessarily recommend doing what i did. Even with the buffer, the fx loop is incredibly sensitive to what you put in it. Some stuff doesn't really work, some of it spins out of control, some setting decrease the repeats, its not really that useful, but it is fun.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: therealfindo on January 14, 2014, 07:43:19 AM
So, my bro-in-law gave me the taptation chipset for Christmas, and it finally arrived :) But now I need to etch a daughterboard, and can't seem to find a pcb pdf for that.. does anyone have one? Or even better, a DBD or something like that with the tap circuit already in play..

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: HellenButterlips on April 22, 2014, 02:24:52 PM
I finally completed building the DIY Stompboxes D'lay with Tap Tempo (Taptation) this evening.  Everything seems to work as expected, with a few odd issues.
1) All functions of the tap tempo mod work as described - including the "Double Time" switch and the On-Off-On selecting of beat-subdivisions, however when I actually tap the DPDT, it's being read as half notes - everything is translated twice as fast. For example, tapping at a rate of 40 BPM comes out as 80 BPM.  The LED's accurately reflect the beat post-translation, but I don't see how the taps could possibly be read as double the speed.  Is this the way the mod is supposed to work, or should I be able to tap in the quarter note subdivisions?
2) After tapping, there is a full measure (4 beats) of greatly increased delay speed before it settles down to the 'cut time' described in bullet 1.  This doesn't happen when I adjust the delay using the "Time" pot, only when tapping in the tempo using the DPDT switch.
This all leads me to believe that I possible have a faulty Taptation IC.  The digital POT seems to be functioning appropriately.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: HellenButterlips on April 22, 2014, 07:45:33 PM
I finally completed building the DIY Stompboxes D'lay with Tap Tempo (Taptation) this evening.  Everything seems to work as expected, with a few odd issues.
1) All functions of the tap tempo mod work as described - including the "Double Time" switch and the On-Off-On selecting of beat-subdivisions, however when I actually tap the DPDT, it's being read as half notes - everything is translated twice as fast. For example, tapping at a rate of 40 BPM comes out as 80 BPM.  The LED's accurately reflect the beat post-translation, but I don't see how the taps could possibly be read as double the speed.  Is this the way the mod is supposed to work, or should I be able to tap in the quarter note subdivisions?
2) After tapping, there is a full measure (4 beats) of greatly increased delay speed before it settles down to the 'cut time' described in bullet 1.  This doesn't happen when I adjust the delay using the "Time" pot, only when tapping in the tempo using the DPDT switch.
This all leads me to believe that I possible have a faulty Taptation IC.  The digital POT seems to be functioning appropriately.  Any ideas?

Update:  After some debugging, and touching up a few of the solder joints, I was able to resolve issue #2 (the odd quick beats when setting the tempo).  I'm still having issue number one, and I've noticed it's a bit quicker than double-time.  It's definitely mis-reading the taps, and I have the same issue when simply grounding the input pin on the chip, so it's not a problem with the DPDT switch or anything in its path.  I definitely suspect a faulty chip (which will be a pain because I soldered it directly to the board), but I'm hoping some of you SME's can provide some alternative debug routes.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on May 07, 2014, 04:27:21 AM
Update:  After some debugging, and touching up a few of the solder joints, I was able to resolve issue #2 (the odd quick beats when setting the tempo).  I'm still having issue number one, and I've noticed it's a bit quicker than double-time.  It's definitely mis-reading the taps, and I have the same issue when simply grounding the input pin on the chip, so it's not a problem with the DPDT switch or anything in its path.  I definitely suspect a faulty chip (which will be a pain because I soldered it directly to the board), but I'm hoping some of you SME's can provide some alternative debug routes.

Sorry for the slow reply.

What type of switch are you using ? Is this a toggle or momentary switch ? If you are using a toggle switch you need to set the Tempo Clock Pulse Mode Input to low / ground.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: JoeEsh on May 14, 2014, 06:54:33 PM
Is this possible? Connecting 2 delay units to one Taptation unit giving 2 different taps - like quarter and dotted eighth?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: acehobojoe on August 28, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
Joe, I would think you can just try to run the clock out from one to the clock in on another and it would work, but with just one I'm not sure! I'm definitely no expert.

I was actually posting to show my schematic for the taptation so far. I was wondering if some of you could look it over. The only thing I need to change is to make a rotary for the time pot.
http://i.imgur.com/d22Mpu2.png
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Njkke on December 06, 2014, 04:21:21 AM
Hi! In my build there's this problem: the led blinks right but the repeats are out of synch.
The wire between tap and pin 6 is 1cm long, it's not a ground problem, I think.
 I've tried 2 different taptation kits, 2 different delay boards and 2 different pt2399 chips: delay totally out of synch, something like 20bpm faster (or useless tap tempo, if you wish). :-[
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 05, 2015, 09:11:09 AM
I have exactly the same problem as the previous poster: The LED shows the correct tempo but the delays are audibly too fast, definitely out of usable range tap wise.
This is a build with PCBs from Musicpcb and JMK. Surely this can't be a digipot issue if the LED shows the correct time..?


/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: lars-musik on February 05, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
I have to chime in here: I made the same out-of-sync-experience with the tap tempo chip available in Germany from uk-electronic. Tried it with a DBD and a Rebote 2.5 (also tried several pt-2399, but I admit all from a chinese ebay source).

I thought maybe the pin 6 resistor for the VCO might be the culprit and tried to adjust it (tapped to a metronome then measured the resulting tempo at various tempi) but the discrepancy turned out to be non-linear. I just ordered a taptation chip to see if it is the AVR but now I read you have the same trouble with the taptation I am afraid the pt2399 might not be consistent enough. I just wonder why so many tap delays seem to work?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 05, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
I have to chime in here: I made the same out-of-sync-experience with the tap tempo chip available in Germany from uk-electronic.

Hi Lars,
Did you use a pcb and if so, which layout?

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: lars-musik on February 05, 2015, 03:51:05 PM

Hi Lars,
Did you use a pcb and if so, which layout?

/Magnus

This kit:
http://www.uk-electronic.de/Download/Beschreibung%20Tap%20Tempo%20mit%20TA.pdf

Plus these etched layouts:
DBD:
http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.de/2012/01/mad-professor-deep-blue-delay.html
Rebote 2.5:
http://www.tonepad.com/project.asp?id=51

Any ideas?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 05, 2015, 04:00:21 PM
Any ideas?

Not really except that the problem is more likely to be with the PT2399 as the tap kits are completely different.
I bought mine from Musikding but people have pointed out that even good batches vary quite a bit.

/M
 
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 05, 2015, 07:25:44 PM
After wading through the entire thread it seems there may be a few reasons for the tap tempo problem:


I haven't tried any of these yet myself.

Edit: I am a bit suspicious still about the MCP41100 because of its 30% tolerance. I'll probably buy one or two more to test.

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 07, 2015, 08:24:53 AM
Well, I measured my MCP41100 and it's only 80K so there it is...
I'll try to get a better value digipot somehow, maybe someone on the forum could part with one? I'll gladly pay a premium for a good one!   :icon_smile:

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 20, 2015, 07:55:57 PM
Just finished a GuitarPCB Delay and Taptation daughter board. At this point things are pretty hit and miss. The guys a GuitarPCB measured a 20% tolerance for the PT chip speed and 10% for the Pot chip resistance.

Is it possible to get this to work properly with these kinds of tolerances and if so How?

Is it just hit and miss and buy a ton of chips?  :icon_cry:

Dan S.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on February 21, 2015, 05:17:34 AM
Well, the PT2399s at least are very cheap- around 3 for 10.
The digipots are another matter at 2.50 each.
Yes, I'd say it's pretty hit or miss.  :-[

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 22, 2015, 06:42:25 PM
Well it looks like the last fellow at GuitarPCB had a bad TT chip.
Replacing it fixed the issue he had.  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 02, 2015, 08:32:09 PM
Tried two TT chips, several pot chips and 5-6 PT chips and every time the the repeats are faster than the LED wether tapped or set by the speed control. It seems to be very consistently faster and seems to be by the same amount. I tried a trimmer and you can calibrate it at one speed like slow, then it will be out at another like fast. Always faster without the trimmer..

Any help would,be appreciated
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: acehobojoe on March 02, 2015, 11:03:20 PM
I hope someone has a solution too!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on March 03, 2015, 04:35:53 AM
Have you measured the Digipots?

/Magnus


Tried two TT chips, several pot chips and 5-6 PT chips and every time the the repeats are faster than the LED wether tapped or set by the speed control. It seems to be very consistently faster and seems to be by the same amount. I tried a trimmer and you can calibrate it at one speed like slow, then it will be out at another like fast. Always faster without the trimmer..

Any help would,be appreciated
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 04, 2015, 07:14:49 PM
Not yet because I bought two digipots with the two TT chips and one from mouser and they all behave the same. Also the PT chips I have are from three different vendors and so far all behave the same.. I'll check the digi pots tonight if I get a chance. I guess I figured that since they came with the taptation chips as a set they would be tested if for no other reason than to save on these kind of support issues. I'll post my findings.

Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 04, 2015, 07:23:52 PM
Well, I measured my MCP41100 and it's only 80K so there it is...
I'll try to get a better value digipot somehow, maybe someone on the forum could part with one? I'll gladly pay a premium for a good one!   :icon_smile:

/Magnus


How did you measure the mcp chip.. I guess I'll grab a spec sheet and figure it out.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 04, 2015, 07:36:54 PM
Oh and one of the guys at Guitarpcb bought six digital pots and they made no difference.  This issue of the repeats being faster than the LED and non linear to boot was finally fixed with a new Taptation chip. It's rare but maybe we hit a bad batch.

http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/forums/topics/show/13049613-dlay-tap-tempo-not-quite-right (http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/forums/topics/show/13049613-dlay-tap-tempo-not-quite-right)

Down a bit into the topic. User name is Attman.

I'm hoping to hear from Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 10, 2015, 12:12:49 AM
Does anyone know how to get a hold of Tone God?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on March 10, 2015, 05:22:39 AM
How did you measure the mcp chip.. I guess I'll grab a spec sheet and figure it out.

If I remember correctly you measure pins 6 and 8.

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 11, 2015, 02:34:13 AM
Earth calling Andrew...... Tone God, respond..

Taptation malfunction.

All avenues of recourse are exhausted....   :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re:
Post by: ca cat on March 11, 2015, 02:52:13 AM
I also have two taptations with simmilar problems on the bench..  I used the last one that  worked corectly in a full featured delay,  with tap tempo modulation and delay and it worked great!   So it would be nice to solve this problem.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 11, 2015, 09:12:16 PM
That is weird. I am burning the chips the same way. They verify on the burner so how could the chips act differently? It would be like the microprocessor is not running the program correctly. That seems highly unlikely. Someone did tell me the digital pots had a wide tolerance.
I can try sending another chip for you to test. Contact me though email. sales@diystompboxes.com
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 11, 2015, 10:16:47 PM

Don't know if it makes any difference but the timing issue is happening with Tapping or with the speed pot.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 12, 2015, 12:48:53 AM
I wrote Andrew so lets see if he has any ideas.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on March 12, 2015, 04:47:41 AM
I still believe the digipot to be a far mote likely culprit.
It needs to be as close to 100K as possible. If it measures anything below 90k it will be unusable in terms of tempo tapping.
Please measure your pots and post the results.

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 12, 2015, 01:14:35 PM
Maybe I shouldn't add the digital pot anymore if this starts becoming an issue. It's kind of like 1% resistors for biasing.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 12, 2015, 03:55:42 PM
OK, I think we are going about this the wrong way. Someone contact me and send me your circuit that is non-working with the problem. Email me and I will pay for shipping etc... and debug this.
Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 12, 2015, 04:59:52 PM
OK things are in motion.
Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on March 13, 2015, 04:50:30 PM
Hey everyone.

Sorry if I haven't been around. The shop has been stupid busy for months. I also wanted to bread board the circuit and test it with the currently software. It seems to be working for me. That being said I am using lab gear and original parts.

I have had people contact me about these problems but a clear solution has not come forth. Some people clean up the wiring (the tempo pin on the PT2399 is very sensitive), some change the PT2399 (I think some people we using knock offs from cheap suppliers), and some change out the TapTation with a new one and find it works. Power supplies not being stable is another as any power fluctuation will change the clock on the PT2399.

Some fixes are putting a small trimming pot/resistor in series with pin 6 for tempos that are generally too fast. You can put one in parallel for too slow but on longer delays the timing might go out because you are introducing a taper to the restive curve. Also use a really stable power supply from a good regulator and filtered properly.

The digital pots are possible one point of error. Another is maybe the PT2399 has had a fab change somewhere that affects the timing. Honestly its all guessing on my part as I have no bad parts to test with.

The truth is this design has limitations, ones I am not happy with. That being said I have a proof of concept circuit on one of my boards for TapTation v2.0 that should *greatly* reduce these issues but I need more time to work on it. Also a bunch of new features will be added that people seem to be interested in.

Again sorry for the silence but I am here now.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 15, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
Hey Andrew,

Glad your shop is busy.  I assume that's a good thing. :)

Just noticed something interesting...the modulation LFO is in sync with the LEDs at any tempo.

Don't know anything about how this works but I assume that the modulation function is separate from the digipot...?

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 15, 2015, 08:02:26 PM
I'm getting ready to send a complete GuitarPCB D'lay build with Daughter Board to Aron that is exhibiting the faster repeats than LED issues.
I want to go back through the build and check everything first so I don't go to all the hassle just to find I put the wrong resistor in somewhere..

My first idea on GuitarPCB was to point to the digipot as it made sense..then someone sent the fellow a new Taptation chip and fixed his issues with the same boards I am using and the same issue I am having.
Would you have a TT chip that was burned apart from Aron's equipment just to eliminate the very remote possibility that a bit is corrupt or something weird is happening? I have two chip sets from Aron and they both exhibit the same issue.

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 16, 2015, 08:36:48 PM
Hey Andrew,
Just noticed something interesting...the modulation LFO is in sync with the LEDs at any tempo.
Don't know anything about how this works but I assume that the modulation function is separate from the digipot...?

After studying the schematic from the daughter board it looks like the modulation is also running through the MPC chip so the answer is no, it is not separate.

DS
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: The Tone God on March 17, 2015, 06:27:42 PM
Just noticed something interesting...the modulation LFO is in sync with the LEDs at any tempo.

Don't know anything about how this works but I assume that the modulation function is separate from the digipot...?

Yes the LFO is in sync with the LEDs. It meant for either using in other modulation effects like phasers and tremolos or to act like the same modulation that Memory Man delays have. It is separate from the digipot.

I think the best course is for Aron to get the board and test with other TapTation chips he is programming. That way we can be sure his equipment is working fine. From there if there is still an issue I can receive it for diagnoses.

Andrew
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 17, 2015, 09:08:26 PM
OK I'll send it all out.

Thank you guys. 
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 17, 2015, 10:03:38 PM
After reading the original posts, think about it, the only interface between the delay and the taptation is the digital pot and pin 6 of the PT2399.
Now reference this:
Quote
The TapTation uses a 100K pot for a max around 1125ms

OK, there are 2 ways to debug this.

1: Tap something slow - like 2 seconds. This should set the max time to 1125ms (1.125 seconds). From the above quote, the LEDs should flash roughly 1.125 seconds AND the digipot should be around 100K.

If it's around 100K, the taptation is working properly - time to look at the rest of the circuits (PT2399 etc...)
If it's NOT close to 100K then the code that sets the digital pot is sending out an incorrect value (more unlikely) or, the digital pot is not close to spec.

So people, tap slowly and measure your digipot value. It looks like pin 5 of the digipot and ground of the PT2399. Does that make sense or am I overlooking something?
You probably have to pull the PT2399 and measure the digipot value.

Here's more food for thought. If you tap slowly and the LEDs flash slowly etc.... the timing code is working. The more I think about this, it's pin 6 of the PT2399 being extremely sensitive or PT2399 scaling differently.

SPI code is super easy:
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SPIDigitalPot
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on March 18, 2015, 04:07:12 AM
Thanks very much Aron! Will post results as soon as I have the time to test my taptation board (might be a few days).

/Magnus
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 18, 2015, 12:53:23 PM
Great! Will be interested in what you find.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 20, 2015, 12:19:46 AM
Aron,
Did you get my PM?
DS
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 20, 2015, 01:47:31 AM
Yes. Lets see what Magnus finds.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 20, 2015, 10:19:19 PM
After reading the original posts, think about it, the only interface between the delay and the taptation is the digital pot and pin 6 of the PT2399.
Now reference this:
Quote
The TapTation uses a 100K pot for a max around 1125ms

OK, there are 2 ways to debug this.

1: Tap something slow - like 2 seconds. This should set the max time to 1125ms (1.125 seconds). From the above quote, the LEDs should flash roughly 1.125 seconds AND the digipot should be around 100K.

If it's around 100K, the taptation is working properly - time to look at the rest of the circuits (PT2399 etc...)
If it's NOT close to 100K then the code that sets the digital pot is sending out an incorrect value (more unlikely) or, the digital pot is not close to spec.

So people, tap slowly and measure your digipot value. It looks like pin 5 of the digipot and ground of the PT2399. Does that make sense or am I overlooking something?
You probably have to pull the PT2399 and measure the digipot value.

Here's more food for thought. If you tap slowly and the LEDs flash slowly etc.... the timing code is working. The more I think about this, it's pin 6 of the PT2399 being extremely sensitive or PT2399 scaling differently.

SPI code is super easy:
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/SPIDigitalPot

I tried to do this but the circuit resets faster than that the speed you recommend. So I am trying to use the speed pot to get the slowest speed. tested the speed pot and it is much lower than 100k. Going to replace and test again.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on March 21, 2015, 10:00:05 AM
Ok, test done.
First of all, I'm using the JMK Modulation taptation board:
http://jmkpcbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Modulating-Taptation.pdf
I realise this is not the optimal way to perform tests but all aspects of the board (PWM, Tempo switch, manual tempo pot) seem to be working as expected.
I disconnected the board completely from the Echo Base (which in itself is working perfectly). I connected the DMM to pin 5 of the digipot and to ground.
The manual tempo pot connected to the PCB measures 98.5K.
First off, I noticed that tapping at 2 second intervals does not work, I had to be much closer to the max value of 1125ms for the tap to register (as already noted by blearyeyes).
The highest digipot value I was able to produce while tapping was 78.4K. When setting the max tempo manually the digipot measured 80.1K.
Judging the LED is obviously difficult but it seemed to sync well with the tempo I was tapping.
I'm guessing breadboarding the digipot to measure it isn't very complicated, If I get instructions I'd be happy to do it.  :icon_smile:

/Magnus  
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 22, 2015, 03:25:31 PM
So you were right, it's probably the digipots. Will see what Andrew says.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 23, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
The Max delay output of the PT2399 is governed by a resistor on the delay board circuit.
Usually limited to 600ms or less due to noise issues.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 31, 2015, 01:06:29 AM
Any news? I didn't send the boards. Would sending them help? I put them in the fail box until all the PT2399s show up..first board to beat me! Pretty disappointed at this juncture. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on March 31, 2015, 04:50:40 PM
No news yet. Let me know how your PT2399's work. I notice that people are getting their PT2399 from somewhere else. How are the other people getting this to work? I think it's a combination of the PT2399 and Digital Pot. Seeing as the PT2399 is non-linear in terms of delay, I'm hoping your batch of PT2399 will work.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on March 31, 2015, 11:25:52 PM
No luck, tell me where others are getting the good chips please...
First 10 PT2399s are the same faster speed...
I just want to get these two pedals finished.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on April 02, 2015, 02:39:37 PM
I notice that people are getting their PT2399 from somewhere else.


Aron,

Could you PM me regarding where the "somewhere else" people are getting their PT2399s from and if you have found a better place to source digipots?

Dan S.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on April 07, 2015, 08:19:42 PM
People I talk to are getting them from Tayda and it apparently works for them. Most have custom boards they made themselves. They are using the chips I sent and Tayda chips.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 05, 2016, 03:16:19 AM
Hey Aron et al,

I bought a taptation with digipot from the diystompboxes store in late October 2015.

I used it with the Hamlet+ PCB from JMK. I'm having the same issues described above with tap tempo inaccuracy.

My PT2399 is from Paul at diyguitarpedals.com.au. They are legit and have never given me any issues aside from this thankfully.

Can anyone explain to me how to measure digipot resistance to see if it needs replacing?

Regards

Chuckddddddddd
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on January 14, 2016, 11:42:51 PM
I believe pin 6 on the PT2399 socket is the control resistance.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on January 14, 2016, 11:49:10 PM
Let me know if you source some good digipots that work. I never did get mine to work.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: mrsuspend on January 15, 2016, 05:27:55 AM
Let me know if you source some good digipots that work. I never did get mine to work.
I don't think it's a matter of sourcing, it's simply that the tolerance is 20%. I've bought a few and think at least one of them is alright although I haven't had the opportunity to test it properly yet. Mind you the 100K ones a probably few and far between. It's a question of luck really...  :icon_confused:

/Magnus

Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 15, 2016, 10:13:52 PM
So I measured between pins 6 and 8 on my MCP41100 (with delay time pot at full) and it reads just below 60k. Useless?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on January 15, 2016, 10:23:52 PM
Out of spec. 40% ?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 16, 2016, 01:17:46 AM
I have ordered 5x more ICs to see if that'll solve it. The one I have is strangely out of spec, but I can't see any other issues that'd cause this. Perhaps I'm not tapping a long enough delay, but I figured just maxing the delay knob would have a similar effect..? Or at least reach the ballpark?

See page three of this PDF for the schem in question. http://jmkpcbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Hamlet+.pdf
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on January 16, 2016, 03:43:18 PM
Yes it should. You can't tap a long delay as the circuit resets. You only need two taps to set the delay. Is the delay faster than what you tap and what the LEDs indicate?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 17, 2016, 05:46:16 AM
Yeah I tapped the longest I could tap before the circuit reset itself, and still no-go. Hm. I'll let you know my IC replacement results tomorrow, postal service permitting!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 24, 2016, 08:11:14 PM
Yeah my tap seems to reset itself quite quickly (eg it goes from holding the LED on, to going back to flashing to the tap). It is still out of time and I find it unlikely that the digipot is the culprit. I have checked all my values for resistors etc and everything is in place and aligned appropriately. Hm.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on February 17, 2016, 12:31:20 AM
So just to update, I bought 5x digipots and tried them out http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-potentiometers/0403654/ (http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-potentiometers/0403654/).

I'm still getting under 60k so there must be something going wrong. Tap is still out of sync.

It's still correctly synced with the LED, but the repeats are too fast.  :icon_cry:

I dunno what to do!
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 17, 2016, 01:07:23 AM
There isn't anything you can do. If you start talking about it people will get upset. I couldn't find any help. Everyone points fingers at each other and then blame the chips.


I bought bunches of PT2399s from several batches and none helped. I had a few digital pots and they didn't help. The only thing I didn't try was getting more taptation chips from Aron as he convinced me there was no way it could be those...

Maybe I should give that a try..
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on February 17, 2016, 01:46:51 AM
Hmmm.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on February 17, 2016, 01:13:29 PM
So I measured between pins 6 and 8 on my MCP41100 (with delay time pot at full) and it reads just below 60k. Useless?

You need to measure between pins 5 and 7, or is 6 and 8 just a typo.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 17, 2016, 01:54:13 PM
Hey Slacker,

Pin 6 is where the clock is controlled by the digipot.
It says VCO on the spec sheet.

When you say 5 & 7 it looks like 5 is the CLK_O  that would be clock out?

And 7 is CC1 what would that be?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on February 17, 2016, 02:04:38 PM
I meant pins 5 and 7 on the digipot, not on the PT2399. Chuckd666 said he measured between pins 6 and 8 on the MCP41100, which is between the the wiper of the pot and the power supply.
You need to do this with the PT2399 disconnected to get a reliable reading.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on February 17, 2016, 08:14:40 PM
Alright I'll pull the PT2399 and get another reading on the digipot. And yes I MEANT 5-7 ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 18, 2016, 02:29:54 AM
If you pull the pt2399 you can measure from pin 6s  socket and ground.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 18, 2016, 02:31:09 AM
On the PT2399 socket that is.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on February 19, 2016, 06:46:21 AM
Setting the knob to full, I get 93.6k resistance on pin 6 of the PT2399. I can't get it to go any higher than this using the tap because it resets too fast for me to get any more resistance than that. The highest I could get tapping the tempo was around 92k. Weird and still outta sync.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 19, 2016, 02:46:14 PM
That's about what I got as well. The digipot was from Aron and I tried another one I had. Both the same. The PT2399s were from 5 different batches and all did basically the same thing. Some were worse than others. The taptation board was from Guitar PCB. From them I got a high brow lecture about how you need a scope to determine if the echoes are really synchronous as light travels faster than sound..or something like that. After my reply, I'm banned from Barry's site. Can't call out BS when you hear it over there I guess it's not PC.

Madbean has a chip set that works fine but it is a much older Taptation chip. Go figure.

If you get any results let me know. 
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on February 20, 2016, 01:00:28 AM
Well great, the tap is useless at the moment. Gonna take it to my friend who has a scope to look at it. NOT LOVIN' MY CHANCES but hey why not.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 20, 2016, 01:54:47 AM
If your friend figures anything out please post. Good luck! 
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: slacker on February 20, 2016, 01:04:18 PM
I got a high brow lecture about how you need a scope to determine if the echoes are really synchronous as light travels faster than sound..

That's complete rubbish, over short distances the relative speed of light and sound isn't going to make a difference.
The easiest way to see if the delays are in sync is to get a simple drum loop with a beat on each quarter note, run that through the pedal, set the pedal to one repeat, set the taptation to quarter notes and tap in time to the beat. That should give give a delay time equal to a quarter note so the delayed version of one beat will land on the next beat. You can easily hear if that's in sync or not.

Quote
Madbean has a chip set that works fine but it is a much older Taptation chip. Go figure.

That won't have anything to do with it, there's virtually no way the taptation chip can be out of spec. In theory the firmware could get corrupted but the chances of that happening to multiple chips in a way that made them all appear to work but set the delay too fast is practically zero. I suppose it's possible at some point the firmware Aron is burning the chips with got changed but then none of them would work properly.

Your best bet for figuring this problem out is to find someone with a working setup and and sent them all your parts and get them to swap bits out until the problem appears.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: blearyeyes on February 20, 2016, 02:21:19 PM
Aron uses a HASH algorithm  to check the firmwares integrity so that can't be corrupted.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I thought this problem was found to be the PT2399 chips? We went through this already.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 01:47:16 PM
I checked and I have a message on April 13 2105 of last year saying you found pt2399 chips that work. I forwarded this information to others. What is going on here?

Not only that don't say that no one wanted to help. I have a long thread about this with people trying to help you. We also talked about the hash algorithm and you told me you understood. If this was solved last year why is it coming up again?

Wait a minute you said you bought bunches of PT2399 and none helped? I have a direct quote saying that different PT2399 DID make a difference. Again, what is going on?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 02:13:20 PM



>There isn't anything you can do. If you start talking about it people will get upset. I couldn't find any help. Everyone points fingers at each other and then blame the chips.
I bought bunches of PT2399s from several batches and none helped.




OK and from personal messages:


>Well here is something VERY interesting, I got a batch of PT2399s from a trade, the fellow said he bought them from Tayda. Another batch of PT2399s from China. I also just received a new batch from Tayda. ]The new batch from Tayda are slightly physically different. The cutout for orientation of the chips is much deeper and longer. But the major difference is that the first one worked fine!....


So far all of this batch is working as well as could be expected with rounding off and tolerances. They are all a little bit fast but not enough to render them unusable.


Yes this good batch of chips from Tayda have a deeper and longer end/direction marker than ANY other chips I have.They also look newer and cleaner. 





Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 02:17:10 PM
>I couldn't find any help.


Can you please post all the things that I tried to do to help you? The above statement implies that you received no help whatsoever. Please post the various ways in which people tried to help you. You also said that the PT2399 made no difference, please also post the message that you sent me saying that a different batch did make a difference.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 02:20:17 PM
chuckd666,


These are the ones (PT2399) that you want:


"So far all of this batch is working as well as could be expected with rounding off and tolerances. They are all a little bit fast but not enough to render them unusable.Yes this good batch of chips from Tayda have a deeper and longer end/direction marker than ANY other chips I have.They also look newer and cleaner.  "
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: aron on February 22, 2016, 07:07:43 PM
I'm sorry guys but after thinking about this, Blearyeyes is no longer a contributing member of this forum. He has 34 posts all of which reference the taptation and nothing else. I have tried to help him and AFAIK this was over in April 13 of last year. I don't have time to rehash this entire episode which was resolved last year.


There was even a video created for him that shows that the chip/board works:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqCTLlRQCKI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on March 21, 2016, 01:49:40 AM
Hey Aron, another 5 PT2399s from Tayda and still no go. Looks like I'm gonna have to scope it or something/get someone smarter than me to help check it over.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on March 21, 2016, 03:47:24 AM
One more symptom I have noticed - I have VERY wonky/high modulation at full depth. I noticed on a Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQ5TQFIKP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQ5TQFIKP0)) of a correctly working Hamlet+ that their modulation is a lot more subtle. Could this have something to do with my issues perhaps??
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Jdansti on March 23, 2016, 09:20:02 AM
Chuck- you might want to consider making one of these quick and dirty delays for testing PT2399 chips.  http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/03/ersatz-verben-psuedo-reverb-by.html. I made one and mounted it on the outside of the enclosure using standoffs for easy access to the chip socket.  I used trimmers placed inside the enclosure instead of pots. I've tested the last 10 chips from Tayda with it and they all work. It's a quick way to see if the chip echoes.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on March 23, 2016, 10:02:31 PM
Hey JDansti, thanks for the tip!

My issue isn't that the PT2399s aren't working, just that the delay is quite noticeably faster than the tap.

I've tried multiple sources of chips including digipots and pt2399s, not sure what to try next. Aron said that Tayda PT2399s would be ok, but it isn't working either.

This is the schem and other information http://jmkpcbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Hamlet+.pdf

If you can see anything obviously out of whack in this pic lemme know. Thanks guys.

(http://d.pr/i/V308+) (http://d.pr/i/V308+)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on July 07, 2016, 09:44:00 PM
Well I'm still at a loss haha. I have tried this with multiple PT2399s and MCP41100s and different circuits and pots etc and the delay time is consistently faster.

I laid out the taptation circuit on perf just today and I could hear the tick which was perfectly in time with my tap, but the delay was still faster than the tap. Is that any sort of clue as to what the culprit would be?
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on November 29, 2016, 11:20:08 PM
IN OTHER NEWS I ended up getting a SMD digipot (it was cheaper) from a Chinese source and put it in... same result... then changed the PT2399 for another and... SUCCESS. The moral of the story is 'never give up'. Cheers everyone :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Boba7 on January 13, 2017, 08:08:57 AM
Hi,

Just a quick question about the Taptation.

Is it possible to use a 100KA for the time pot? (log instead of lin)
And in case I wanted a 50k only time pot, I know I can simulate it by connecting the double time input to ground, but in that case I'll get 1/8 when I tap 1/4, right?

Thanks a lot! :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: chuckd666 on January 15, 2017, 10:15:32 AM
You can use a log pot instead, but it'll be difficult to set as the sweep will be wrong.

Not sure about the second part, I suppose you could use a 50k pot, but it'd not be as versatile if just using the time pot. Also I'm not sure if the double time/division capabilities would work if using the pot, as the digipot will take over after a couple of taps. Hm.
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Boba7 on January 16, 2017, 07:38:24 AM
Thanks for the answer chuck!

Maybe you're right about the sweep.

I dont want to use a 50k pot as I'm not sure it's possible with the taptation, but I've read that by doubling the time (double time input to ground) it's possible to simulate a 50k pot. However I'm now wondering how the tap would act. I believe the tempo should be twice as fast as what I tap. Could anyone confirm? :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Jdansti on January 16, 2017, 02:11:54 PM
Thanks for the answer chuck!

Maybe you're right about the sweep.

I dont want to use a 50k pot as I'm not sure it's possible with the taptation, but I've read that by doubling the time (double time input to ground) it's possible to simulate a 50k pot. However I'm now wondering how the tap would act. I believe the tempo should be twice as fast as what I tap. Could anyone confirm? :)

I don't have a direct answer, but pots are cheap, so try several and see what works best. The ones that fail the test can be used in other pedals.  :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Boba7 on January 16, 2017, 05:11:49 PM
Yeah you're right and I have a few 50kB and 100kA so Ill just give them a try! :)
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: jpadua on April 20, 2017, 11:35:30 PM
Hi guys! Super new here and my first post. I'm looking for a way to do a tap tempo for FV1 spin chip, I know the taptation chip was made for the PT2399, but can it work as well on an FV-1? Just thought maybe since there is a digital pot, it could be wired on to pot0 pin of the FV1 to control delay time through the tap tempo functions of the taptation. 

EDIT:
Just to add, can the Taptation chip, as well as the digital pot MCP41100 work with 3.3v? (just to match the voltage of the FV1 at 3.3v) or will it have some adverse effects on the time delay clock produced by the Taptation?

Thanks again!

Jay
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on September 29, 2017, 11:16:27 PM
hey Aron
i got my chips in a week or two ago, sorry i haven't posted yet.

this shit works fine, absolutely perfect here with zero problems.

i suspect the "noticeably faster than tapped" issue is a problem with the range switch wiring, or a bad timing cap.

depending on where the switch is set, you get dead on time to the tap, faster, or dotted eighth. at least here. ;)

ok.. that said. i built it  in with a guitarpcb.com d'lay board, and their tap tempo board that goes with it.
everything went together easy as pie. as soon as i fired it up the taptation chipset worked perfectly.

but... son of a bitch... i couldn't get ANY delay whatsoever. (i'd also hacked in the "tails" mod for the 2399 chip.... in this case, the led caused problems, so i just used a dpdt and wired the indicator led to one side of it. with the led i couldn't get the bypass to work. i tried a bunch of jfets, and finally once i took the led out, no problem...)

i tried the predictable pile of chips. nothing was working. going crazy.
noticed that if i messed with the circuit i heard repeats... but could get no signal in.

i finally figured out that the layout i had found online for tails had been done incorrectly, and was missing the blocking cap off pin one of the input chip... duh.

re-did the layout to the actual schematic from andrew on a 7x8 piece of vero, and it fired right up.
i tried the chips that wouldn't work. every single one fired up.

so i revisited some earlier builds and discovered on the ones that weren't working, there was a problem with that cap going open. as soon as i replaced it, bang, fired right up.

dunno if this is relevant or helpful, but figured i'd post.

there's almost always a solution.

pt2399's are a pain in the ass!! but when they don't work, its usually something stupid. start with your audio probe and odds are you'll find it quickly.

peace
Title: Re: NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller
Post by: Rockitdog on January 08, 2018, 04:48:03 AM
Hey Aron.

I noticed that the Taptation chipset is no longer available from the website.  ???

http://diystompboxes.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=20&zenid=084809cf34fb7bcc2d9dd3a40a7ee608

Has it been discontinued? Will there be chips available at some point?

Thanks