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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 04:17:05 PM

Title: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 04:17:05 PM
exclusive to diystompbox...its nice to give something back!...even if its simple :icon_rolleyes:

hi guys....been twiddling with bits again..'oh no not again i hear you all cry'!!!!...... :icon_rolleyes:
heres a very very simple one knob tiny tremolo?. it works great!..and is only 6 components.....thats it!..
i started off wanting to control the speed of a 555 with led..then i thought well why not use an ldr to break the
sound up...here ya go!.....be nice with a chorus /delay....im quite pleased with it...its my first 555 project ever!.
so be kind... :icon_redface:
SOUNDCLIP...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem1.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem1.mp3)


(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem.gif)

ive still got it on a tiny breadboard but the above vero will work...going to try a dimming mod too...as well as on and off..
for hard or soft...

 i know there are plenty of tremolo's much better than these out there to build ,but i enjoy the pain and pleasure
of creating!!!!i find it much more rewarding than simply copying....thanks for stopping by.. :icon_cool:












Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: aron on October 01, 2010, 04:30:12 PM
Cool!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 04:33:29 PM
wow..thats nice coming from you man!..thanks .rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 01, 2010, 05:49:43 PM
It's pretty square. I wonder if you could add in a smoothing cap to round out the waveform?
Sounds cool for more angular trem, nice!

John
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 05:56:29 PM
It's pretty square. I wonder if you could add in a smoothing cap to round out the waveform?
Sounds cool for more angular trem, nice!

John

hi john, as this is my first dive into anything other than distortions yes its very simple.! just experimenting really.

i thought it would be improved by some kind of dimming of the led maybe,? instead of or also the blunt on/off of light!..making it rounder!
where would you add a cap to do this?...its open to mods and suggestions by all means..all  ideas welcome.
cheers rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: paulyy on October 01, 2010, 06:03:26 PM
Sounds really nice for something so simple. Hate to ask a dumb question but what is a ldr?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 06:08:33 PM
hi paully.

light dependant resistor...shine light in it and it reacts...so the led flashes into it..ok.

same as this..

http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2010, 06:11:00 PM
Sounds really nice for something so simple. Hate to ask a dumb question but what is a ldr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-dependent_resistor


Cool minimal circuit, Rob. Since the audio path is totally passive, the performance will depend heavily on what's in front of it and after it. You could add a dual opamp and a few passives to get a buffered in and out, though that would decrease the simplicity of course.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 06:13:01 PM
Sounds really nice for something so simple. Hate to ask a dumb question but what is a ldr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-dependent_resistor


Cool minimal circuit, Rob. Since the audio path is totally passive, the performance will depend heavily on what's in front of it and after it. You could add a dual opamp and a few passives to get a buffered in and out, though that would decrease the simplicity of course.

cheers taylor yep..it was considered..and no doubt it will be modded considerably.....in the end  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: aleister on October 01, 2010, 06:49:28 PM
   i got this breadboarded up and it sounds amazing for such a low parts count.  real nice trashy tremelo sound going on.   i was wondering Rob what was the light/dark values of the ldr that you used on the soundclip?  i have a bunch of different values from an electronics goldmine value pack and i am having a good bit of fun swapping out and getting some neat sounds. great project Rob, it will be interesting to see what this may evolve into.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Labaris on October 01, 2010, 06:53:36 PM
I like tremolos a lot, and yours is very nice! :)
Is there a little treble loss?

Go on, designing is the best.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Taylor on October 01, 2010, 06:55:39 PM
Also, don't know if you're experiencing ticking (common with the 555) but the trick I've seen is to use the CMOS version of the 555, so it doesn't pull as much current on the state changes.

Although, now that I think about it, having the audio path passive means it isn't as closely connected to the same ground as the 555, so that may mean less chance of ticking. You still have to ground the jacks of course, but still, perhaps the passive path is the key to using the 555 without ticking.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 01, 2010, 07:01:18 PM
  i got this breadboarded up and it sounds amazing for such a low parts count.  real nice trashy tremelo sound going on.   i was wondering Rob what was the light/dark values of the ldr that you used on the soundclip?  i have a bunch of different values from an electronics goldmine value pack and i am having a good bit of fun swapping out and getting some neat sounds. great project Rob, it will be interesting to see what this may evolve into.

hi,aleister it reads 4.5k on the dmm...5k i guess!...bought it ages ago..

@labaris...havent noticed treble loss !..cheers.

@ taylor, i cant hear any ticking even with phones on...the exact numbers on the ic are : ua555ic/f7617
i got a bag full of goodies from a friend who's dad sadly passed away,and there was a lot of these in there..and 741's.

edit: mind you i havent shrink wrapped the ldr yet..i just try it in the dark  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 01, 2010, 07:50:43 PM
If I'm not totally mistaken, a pot in parallel with the ldr would constitute a depth mod, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: skiraly017 on October 01, 2010, 08:05:15 PM
Very cool, I like it! Reminds me of the Walco Sound-Go-Round.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: paulyy on October 01, 2010, 09:31:21 PM
hi paully.

light dependant resistor...shine light in it and it reacts...so the led flashes into it..ok.

same as this..

http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw)


Sounds really nice for something so simple. Hate to ask a dumb question but what is a ldr?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-dependent_resistor


Cool minimal circuit, Rob. Since the audio path is totally passive, the performance will depend heavily on what's in front of it and after it. You could add a dual opamp and a few passives to get a buffered in and out, though that would decrease the simplicity of course.
Thanks. I thought it was a photoresister. Just never herd it called that.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: glops on October 01, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
That sounds really great!  So simple, gonna try this out!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: jdub on October 02, 2010, 10:06:09 AM
Sweet & simple, man. Very nice!  Lotsa potential, too...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: frequencycentral on October 02, 2010, 10:12:41 AM
You could add a depth control by adding a (100k?) pot in series with the LED. I think.  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 02, 2010, 10:33:59 AM
With a series 100k pot wouldn't that just keep a 100K (at max) resistance in
series with the In/out? dropping a little volume but not really affecting the depth?

Thinking out loud...Led "off" means (?)megs of resistance between in/out, 5K between out in
with the LED on as "stock". With a pot in parallel you would get less resistance with LED off
and' therefore a less deep trem no? But I wonder how big that pot would need to be.
Probably larger than 1M  :icon_sad:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Derringer on October 02, 2010, 11:51:42 AM
Rick's saying in series with the LED, not the LDR

which  would limit the brightness of the LED, which I'm thinking would serve as a depth control, but would also decrease max volume as the resistance was increased because the LED wouldn't reach max brightness. But then again, it all depends on just how sensitive the circuit is ... i.e. at what brightness is most of the signal getting through.

what if the guitar signal were jumpered from input to output and the LDR was placed between the signal and ground. That way, you'd have max signal when the LED is dark, and the signal would be bled off to GND when the led lit. If you added the proposed depth control here, the volume of the output signal would be unaffected.

and I'm just thinking out loud here too ...

cool circuit Rob
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 02, 2010, 12:20:53 PM
Thinking out loud...Led "off" means (?)megs of resistance between in/out, 5K between out in
with the LED on as "stock". With a pot in parallel you would get less resistance with LED off
and' therefore a less deep trem no? But I wonder how big that pot would need to be.
Probably larger than 1M  :icon_sad:
That's what I said a few posts ago:
If I'm not totally mistaken, a pot in parallel with the ldr would constitute a depth mod, wouldn't it?
But I don't think it would have to be larger than 1M, I think you could get away with 500k or even 100k, sure it would mean less tremolo, but not that much less, according to the first online calculator a 5k and a 100k resistor in parallel is 4.67k I don't think that would be too much :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 02, 2010, 12:29:40 PM
what if the guitar signal were jumpered from input to output and the LDR was placed between the signal and ground. That way, you'd have max signal when the LED is dark, and the signal would be bled off to GND when the led lit. If you added the proposed depth control here, the volume of the output signal would be unaffected.

and I'm just thinking out loud here too ...

cool circuit Rob
Oh, that's an idea. Think the jumpered signal would have to have a resistor as well to get a 5k ohm to ground to bleed off enough signal, maybe this is where the input buffer comes in to boost the signal enough for this to work. I like this idea as it doesn't affect the "on volume", I like the other idea for its simplicity :), and how much does 5k resistance do for the volume?

For a more complex solution, how about a dual gang "balance pot" to blend between the untremoloed (how about that for a word) and the tremoloed signal ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 02, 2010, 02:59:33 PM
Rick's saying in series with the LED, not the LDR
Doh!, missed that one... :icon_redface:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 02, 2010, 03:38:30 PM
Humored myself with doing a pcb design a la tiny ;)

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tiny-trem.png)

Had to remove the rate led ground from the board to remove a row. It's getting to the point where you can sticky tape the board to the side of your 3pdt  :o  With effects this size we're getting to where dual effect in 1590A's is possible.

As for in pot in series with led, I didn't think you could dim leds that way, can you? (edit: thinking about it well yes you can)

ps. If somebody cares to etch this design I'd be interested in one. I've only gotten to where I design pcb's, not to the point where I actually etch them  :(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 02, 2010, 09:29:29 PM
Humored myself with doing a pcb design a la tiny ;)

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tiny-trem.png)

Had to remove the rate led ground from the board to remove a row. It's getting to the point where you can sticky tape the board to the side of your 3pdt  :o  With effects this size we're getting to where dual effect in 1590A's is possible.

As for in pot in series with led, I didn't think you could dim leds that way, can you? (edit: thinking about it well yes you can)

ps. If somebody cares to etch this design I'd be interested in one. I've only gotten to where I design pcb's, not to the point where I actually etch them  :(
I'll etch it sometime in the next couple of days. PM me your address and I'll mail you one.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 03:09:01 AM
I'll etch it sometime in the next couple of days. PM me your address and I'll mail you one.
Thanks, I'll post a slight update to the design tonight (about 12-14 hours away).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 10:00:18 AM
wow a pcb already!...nice work guys.

definately needs a depth mod though!...i'll try the 100k on the led idea!..should work i think..
anyone else tried it yet?....

edit: yay!..it works...dims to nothing too. excellent!!!!!....

it only works on the end of the 100k pot though!!!!.....i'll ttry a different value on it....

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: frequencycentral on October 03, 2010, 10:09:55 AM
I have been thinking about the depth pot idea (100k pot in series with the LED). The way you've got the LDR configured, my depth pot idea would affect the 'on' volume as well as the 'off' volume. I think? However, instead of running the audio through the LDR, connect the input and output together and run the LDR from the input/output to ground - like a pulldown resistor. That way the LED in series with a 100k depth pot will just affect the depth and not the 'on' volume.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 10:17:40 AM
cheers rick , i'll try that..

just tried it with a 1k linear  pot...i get the full range over the pot and it dims brilliantly now......

it almost goes completely off to bright ok...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
Update coming faster, moved in and out to top. Just slightly annoyed at the rate led connection  :(

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tiny-trem-v2.png)

Edit: if someone comes up with a modified schematic, I'll give that a go as well.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 10:24:40 AM
nice...could just jump the led ground!!!..

the 1k pot idea works...but im sure its changing the speed slightly too when turned up/down....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 10:45:45 AM
aha..i tried ricks/derringers idea...used the ldr as a pull down resistor...

join in/out with ldr to ground....put 1k pot in series to the led....brilliant works a treat!!!!...

so hold off on that pcb perrow!!!!... :icon_mrgreen:

heres the updated vero layout with depth....works ok guys...thanks for the ideas..!

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.gif)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 11:16:21 AM
i'll do a sounclip of this later , will have to wait till it gets dark.... :icon_mrgreen:
still havent shrink wrapped it yet!!!
its 4:15am here!!!!..few hours to go :icon_rolleyes: ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 12:56:27 PM
heres the clip guys....top tip though use a 3mm led for the enclosure speed rate led...
i wrapped the led/ldr...

the 5mm was being drained too much.

works great..can get really subtle too...i still liked the original chop too though..might make that  switchable!!!!!! :icon_idea:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.mp3)

im a very happy bunny... :icon_wink:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: daverdave on October 03, 2010, 01:03:45 PM
It's pretty square. I wonder if you could add in a smoothing cap to round out the waveform?
Sounds cool for more angular trem, nice!

John

You can get a kind of triangle wave off the charging cap, a bit of an exponential curve on it, not sure how big it'd be though. Should be easy to wire a swicth in to select between them.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 03, 2010, 01:42:53 PM
So a larger cap there in place of the 47uf then?
Something that take longer to charge and makes the
angle less steep, Is that correct?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 03, 2010, 02:02:15 PM
Question: if the ldr is going to ground, does that mean the input and output impedence varies with the r of the ldr?
If so, you could potentially drive it with something that needs a high impedence input and get a wah/filter sound out of it?
just an idea that popped into my head.
sounds great btw.
1 chip 1 resistor 1 cap
1 ldr and 2 led's
 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 02:11:57 PM
With the ldr to ground as a drain cap, couldn't a depth pot be added in series with the ldr? More minimum resistance drained to ground = less depth.

I'll hold on the next version, even though I got two of them ready, one even smaller than before :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
@john i tried a 100uf and it just makes the speed rate longer....havent got a scope to see waves etc..

@ quackzed...i like the idea of that!!!...that would be very cool indeed....but i lack knowledge on how to achieve such an effect..  :icon_redface:

@perrow...tried that...works really well too...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 03, 2010, 02:21:05 PM
Hmmm
just off the top of my head, how about a cap in between the chip and the depth pot?
So it has to charge up the cap...slows up the on off of the LED, ramping up a bit...triangle wafeform.
EDIT: Scratch that, the cap will block DC.  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: daverdave on October 03, 2010, 02:26:46 PM
A larger cap won't make the waveform off the cap any bigger, as it's gonna charge and discharge at 2/3 and 1/3 of the power supply (I think) or the threshold voltages. You could try taking the voltage off it and lighting an LED to see how bright it gets, though I think it'll be smaller than the output of the 555 it might be big enough to drive the optocoupler. I did a 555 timer last year for uni so I'll have a peak at my notes, we had to measure the voltages.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: daverdave on October 03, 2010, 02:32:35 PM
Yeah, according to my notes, the cap charged to 2/3s of the Vcc, and discharged to 1/3 Vcc. I used a 5V supply for it and got 1.75 pk-pk roughly. So I'm guessing that with a 9V supply, you'd get 3V to 6V at 3V pk-pk. Which would be enough to light it fully I think, but I don't think it'd give you a very wide swing.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on October 03, 2010, 02:46:18 PM
@john i tried a 100uf and it just makes the speed rate longer....havent got a scope to see waves etc..

I'm fortunate enough to have a USB scope, but if I hadn't access to that, I'd be getting stuck into something like this

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/index.php%3Fsel%3Dscope_de&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com

(really dunno how mso many can get by without seeing the waveforms of their efforts)...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 02:54:17 PM
@john i tried a 100uf and it just makes the speed rate longer....havent got a scope to see waves etc..

I'm fortunate enough to have a USB scope, but if I hadn't access to that, I'd be getting stuck into something like this

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/index.php%3Fsel%3Dscope_de&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com

(really dunno how mso many can get by without seeing the waveforms of their efforts)...

nice one gurner...brilliant...i get by with my ears!..ha ha..thanks for that!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 02:55:04 PM
Hmmm
just off the top of my head, how about a cap in between the chip and the depth pot?
So it has to charge up the cap...slows up the on off of the LED, ramping up a bit...triangle wafeform.
EDIT: Scratch that, the cap will block DC.  ::)

Small cap in parallel with the led? Steals some power while charging and gives some back when the timer switches off. Problem is that if it works it'd probably need different caps for different speeds.

I'm fortunate enough to have a USB scope, but if I hadn't access to that, I'd be getting stuck into something like this

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/index.php%3Fsel%3Dscope_de&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com

(really dunno how mso many can get by without seeing the waveforms of their efforts)...

Now that looks like a nice program, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: tubelectron on October 03, 2010, 03:52:52 PM
Hi deadastronaut,

Very as interesting as compact trem circuit - I would even give it a name if I release it : SuperCompacTrem !

As I experimented many designs (but not already this "funny" one !), I have a question - I hope I am clear in my description : When you increase the rate, without touching the depth pot, do you notice an attenuation in the overall volume and a loss of the effect depth, compared to the low rate settings ? This is common on photocell LDR trems on Fenders (deluxe & twin reverb for example), due to the recovery time to black high resistance value of the LDR. So have you noticed this problem ? Would you please check accurately and tell me ?

Thanks !

A+!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 03:57:34 PM
hi bruno.

the level seems ok to me...fast or slow..no problems...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 04:05:03 PM
So here comes a new pcb design, slightly smaller than the last one :)

I realised that the design now was a "variable bleed to ground" circuit, so I removed the in and out points and replaced it with a "bleed" point. Doing this will require wiring the 3pdt different than normal, shorting the two normal "to board" and "from board" legs. But that shouldn't be a problem, we were doing it before, going to and from the board but shorted on that board.

Depth pot between signal and board is optional I guess.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tiny-tremv3.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 04:22:03 PM
Question: if the ldr is going to ground, does that mean the input and output impedence varies with the r of the ldr?
If so, you could potentially drive it with something that needs a high impedence input and get a wah/filter sound out of it?
just an idea that popped into my head.
sounds great btw.
1 chip 1 resistor 1 cap
1 ldr and 2 led's
 8)


hi gil.
im sure everyone is very interested in this idea if you could explain it in more detail! thanks rob.

@perrow. dont be surprised if it changes again  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 03, 2010, 04:30:37 PM
@perrow. dont be surprised if it changes again  :icon_mrgreen:
I won't be when it does  :P

For another episode in the depth mod variations series: A second, dimmed, led also shining on the ldr  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brymus on October 03, 2010, 05:17:40 PM
Sounds great Rob  8)
How about a schematic showing the original and changes ?
I just cant wrap my head around vero   :icon_redface:
I actually liked the first soundclip better.
But I can see why some would want the depth pot for easing back on the effect.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 05:20:34 PM
Sounds great Rob  8)
How about a schematic showing the original and changes ?
I just cant wrap my head around vero   :icon_redface:
I actually liked the first soundclip better.
But I can see why some would want the depth pot for easing back on the effect.

cheers bryan. yeah i like the more choppy feel of it too...nice to have both though!...switchable!!!

i'll give the schematic a go ok. rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 03, 2010, 06:07:09 PM
@bryan heres the schemo's........

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem1.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 03, 2010, 06:44:33 PM
WOW Nice circuit there! Thank you!"
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on October 03, 2010, 06:51:20 PM
NICE a expensive tremolo becomes simple! wow very bright discovery!!! next Little delay?chorus? etc :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brymus on October 03, 2010, 06:57:33 PM
Thanks Rob.
So D1 is the other half of the LDR ?
And on the second schematic should the output be taken after the LDR like the first schematic not before ?

And finally ,so to see if I understand this right this signal is just getting choked as the LED increases the resistance through the LDR.
Basically its like the 555 is working your volume knob really fast (or slow) with the LDR acting as the volume knob.
And the 555 and LED acting as your hand.
Is that about right ?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brymus on October 03, 2010, 07:07:02 PM
Oh and what does the other side of D1 connect to ?
Ground or V+ ?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 03, 2010, 07:19:02 PM
D1's other side connects to ground.
The second schematic's LDR is connected in a different way.
The in/out are shorted to ground when the LDR is "hi" (LED not lit)

In the first schematic the LDR is some megaohms in series with the signal
and the second schematic the resistance of the LDR is to ground (affecting impedance
and essentially shorting the in/out to ground when it's 5K)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brymus on October 03, 2010, 07:23:05 PM
OK
Thanks John
So I was right about the first schematic,how it works choking the signal off.
The second version bleeds the signal off instead of choking it,if I understand now.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on October 03, 2010, 07:26:26 PM
Might be a stupid question but...

Could the LDR and LED be replaced by a Vactrol? Might be a "bigger" component but, could it be done with the likes of a VTL5C2 or VTL5C3?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 03, 2010, 07:32:33 PM
i was thinking how you could  have it behave more like a tone pot being turned on and off fast...
i was thinking you might be able to precede it with a high impedence output, and that the low dark resistance would roll off highs... but it would also be rolling off level  so i'm not sure it would work... or it would be minimal ,like a guitar volume pot.

But! you could just put a cap between the ldr and ground, and then its a tone pot... with like a .01uf cap it should be pretty audible..
like a wah-wah switch.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 04, 2010, 12:01:19 AM
Might be a stupid question but...

Could the LDR and LED be replaced by a Vactrol? Might be a "bigger" component but, could it be done with the likes of a VTL5C2 or VTL5C3?
Yes, the parts are one and the same. A vactrol is an LDR and LED packaged into one component.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 04, 2010, 04:59:46 AM
i was thinking how you could  have it behave more like a tone pot being turned on and off fast...
i was thinking you might be able to precede it with a high impedence output, and that the low dark resistance would roll off highs... but it would also be rolling off level  so i'm not sure it would work... or it would be minimal ,like a guitar volume pot.

But! you could just put a cap between the ldr and ground, and then its a tone pot... with like a .01uf cap it should be pretty audible..
like a wah-wah switch.

cheers gil..i'll try that today..... :icon_cool:



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 04, 2010, 11:02:45 AM
i remember one guitar i used different caps, (i think smaller than stock.022-maybe .01 or even .001) for the tone pots, it did almost nothing when tone was barely rolled off, but at the allmost all the way off side it had this 'wah' type sound from like 0-3 where i could roll it on/off
with my finger for a wah type sound. if you try a few different caps sizes to put between the ldr and ground, you should be able to get some 'auto wah' type filter sounds... you could parallel the cap with a spst, to short around it, when you want normal trem operation...
i'd try .1 .01 and .001 at first ,just to see how much treble they each roll off via the ldr and go from there...  8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 04, 2010, 11:33:00 AM
cheers gil. sounds like a good idea!..i think i understand you now!..

just a thought!..if i use another led/ldr into a cap would this work,?? hmmmm. :icon_idea:

sounds like it might...thinking logically...(for a change ha ha) hmmm maybe not as it needs to sweep eh?...

i worked out a 'train lights' 555 circuit, one goes on and one goes off ...just for fun!..but it could be used in some mad way...

panning etc.....but that would have to be a 556....

just thinking aloud..!!!!!!...rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 04, 2010, 12:10:36 PM
one hit each..trying all nf's...22/33/47/100/220/470/ ...hmmmm...

clip removed :...


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 04, 2010, 12:48:01 PM
i dont know if i can hear it?
are you doing it like this in/out----ldr--------cap-------ground
the ldr cant have any other path to ground other than the cap ,i think, for it to work like a tone pot.
like if you put the cap in parallel with the depth pot it wouldn't be very hearable over the tremolo...
you'd need to basically put the cap where the depth pot was...
not sure if thats how you did it or not... but i cant tell... :-\
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 04, 2010, 12:56:08 PM
i dont know if i can hear it?
are you doing it like this in/out----ldr--------cap-------ground
the ldr cant have any other path to ground other than the cap ,i think, for it to work like a tone pot.
like if you put the cap in parallel with the depth pot it wouldn't be very hearable over the tremolo...
you'd need to basically put the cap where the depth pot was...
not sure if thats how you did it or not... but i cant tell... :-\

hi yeah!...erm...lol..

i had it...in and out into one side of the ldr i think.....then a cap on the other end to ground,
i'll do a slower sample now...ok. (my mates been bugging me about something else so i may have got confused ok) ;)
new sample coming in a bit...

here ya go..same order of caps..22/33/47/100/220/470/ nf

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/newcapsample.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/newcapsample.mp3)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 04, 2010, 01:44:15 PM
thanks for trying it out.  ;D.

so it sounds like its just tremoloing the highs,like a tone pot. 8) -and as the caps get bigger toward the end of the clip it sounds more like a straight tremolo, as the cutoff frequency goes down and more of the signal is tremo-ed.
if you liked the sound of just tremoloing the highs you could do a 'cap blend pot' type setup there with  a pot for .001 only very highs get trem to 1uf full frequency trem...

---ldr-----------(.001uf)--------ground
        l ---o  o--o---(+1uf)---ground
             100kb
               pot
this seems like more of a 'mod' people may or may not want to incorporate in their builds...
a bit of a -cut highs only -variation on what the depth pot is doing...



i wonder what it would soundlike if you had just lows when the highs were being cut (on)- then just highs with the lows cut during the (off)cycle...
 ??? ::) :P
o.k. i've gone too far...

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 04, 2010, 04:28:03 PM
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43793&g2_serialNumber=2)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 04, 2010, 06:37:47 PM
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

So, you're challenging me to do it on 40 "squares", well I can do that. I'll even reintroduce the rate led ground connection.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tiny-tremv4.png)

Ps. Thanks to Renegadrian for pointing out that pins 4 and 5 were NC's and that the cap was an electrolyt.

Pps. I realized that you can do a true bypass with status led for this circuit with a 2pdt! At least if your doing the bleed to ground version, which my pcb designs are :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 04, 2010, 06:43:42 PM
Ps. Thanks to Renegadrian for pointing out that pins 4 and 5 were NC's and that the cap was an electrolyt.

Well, just my very little contribution to the forum...I do love to lay things with vero, and I'm glad to share...
yes as pins 4 and 5 are not used, you can use some extra space just leaving them unsoldered, or even better trimmed, as I did on mine.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ripdivot on October 05, 2010, 12:10:25 AM
Here is a way to add a mode switch so you can switch the LDR to be in series (more chop) with the signal or pulling signal to ground (standard).

(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/8025/modeswitch.png) (http://img541.imageshack.us/i/modeswitch.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 05, 2010, 04:32:47 AM
hi gil , yep i think i'll keep it simple after all....thanks for your input on this, well worth trying it . cheers rob.

@adrian. now that is tiny!!!! nice.....uh oh...so you get a bit of clicking on it then ????

@perrow,nice one!..could you show the switch/jack/led connections for your pcb too!?...just to be clear on that! :icon_mrgreen:
i thought we'd get away with not usind a 3pdt!..just werent sure of the wiring on it.

@ripdivot. nice one on the switch....what if a small toggle were used to turn depth pot off to get original chop???.

nice one guys looks like its job done on this then!...apart from any click?....taylor mentioned earlier that we might
get clicking, he suggested using a cmos 555 in case of that, cheers taylor!..will try it if mine clicks when its off the bread board!..

i love this forum..... :icon_cool:

right now for the next tiny project.... :icon_mrgreen: a  flanger using 1 resistor and a 10k pot, but making noise with your mouth :icon_mrgreen:




Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 05, 2010, 07:26:41 AM
hi gil , yep i think i'll keep it simple after all....thanks for your input on this, well worth trying it . cheers rob.

@adrian. now that is tiny!!!! nice.....uh oh...so you get a bit of clicking on it then ????

@perrow,nice one!..could you show the switch/jack/led connections for your pcb too!?...just to be clear on that! :icon_mrgreen:
i thought we'd get away with not usind a 3pdt!..just werent sure of the wiring on it.

@ripdivot. nice one on the switch....what if a small toggle were used to turn depth pot off to get original chop???.

nice one guys looks like its job done on this then!...apart from any click?....taylor mentioned earlier that we might
get clicking, he suggested using a cmos 555 in case of that, cheers taylor!..will try it if mine clicks when its off the bread board!..

i love this forum..... :icon_cool:

right now for the next tiny project.... :icon_mrgreen: a  flanger using 1 resistor and a 10k pot, but making noise with your mouth :icon_mrgreen:

Ok, so let's see we want no ticking, I'll solve that by separating signal path from circuit (signal and ground).

Show switches, see below.

Depth pot only for bleed mode, check.

Love this forum, check.

Two component flanger (not counting mouth), I'll let you work on that one  :icon_mrgreen:

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytremv5wired.png)

I thought about showing connections for power, leds (all four: rate, bleed, in line, bypass) and rate pot, but for clarity I decided against it :)

Let's see, two phono jacks, two switches, four leds, two led resistors and two pots. Thats 12 components off board to control a curcuit of five components. 2.2:1 ratio  ::) And I haven't even considered battery snap and/or dc jack!

Edit: Sorry, no dpdt bypass with led. Need to switch both in and out. Mind you, if you don't want the bleed/inline switch, you're safe with a 2pst just breaking the ground connection from the ldr (and a led on the other pole).

Edit 2: Almost forgot to post a pcb image for this one.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytremv5pcb.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: blooze_man on October 05, 2010, 04:35:33 PM
Built it and it works. The only thing is that when it's set on a high speed, the light from the LED is enough to keep signal going through the LDR all the time so I'm unable to get a fast tremolo. I know it's possible from listening to the sound clip. Can anyone tell me exactly what kind of LED/LDR is being used?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: daverdave on October 05, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
I reckon most people are just making their own. Generally ldrs have a pretty slow decay time, a couple of silonext optocouplers state pretty fast decay times (well fast enough).
If you want to make a faster home made optocoupler then I'd check out datasheets for a quick ldr, again, I think silonex do some with a fast decay.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 06, 2010, 02:52:33 AM
Built it and it works. The only thing is that when it's set on a high speed, the light from the LED is enough to keep signal going through the LDR all the time so I'm unable to get a fast tremolo. I know it's possible from listening to the sound clip. Can anyone tell me exactly what kind of LED/LDR is being used?

@bloozeman.i used a standard 5mm red led with a 5k ldr....and i get fast trem out of it...

@perrow.. why the pin 4 connection?...

also i just read this about noise!..pin 5..is this relevant to clicking in some way!!!!!..?

pin 5Control input: this can be used to adjust the threshold voltage which is set internally to be 2/3 Vs. Usually this function is not required and the control input is connected to 0V with a 0.01”F capacitor to eliminate electrical noise. It can be left unconnected if noise is not a problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOO also 'NEW' 'tiny pan'/stereo panner
Post by: deadastronaut on October 06, 2010, 08:48:13 AM
scratch this post.....moved to another thread!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 06, 2010, 03:34:26 PM
@perrow.. why the pin 4 connection?...

I misread Adriano's post and haven't had time to correct myself. Pin 4 of the IC needs to be either removed or at least bent so it's not connected. I've updated the image with a note about this. Reload if you don't see it.

On the other hand, I fixed it in ... [drumroll] ... the next version :) Even moved the rate led ground to the edge of the board.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytremv6wired.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: blooze_man on October 06, 2010, 07:12:24 PM
i used a standard 5mm red led with a 5k ldr....and i get fast trem out of it...

How do I measure an LDR? Since their resistance is dependent on light. Thanks
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 06, 2010, 07:23:32 PM
i used a standard 5mm red led with a 5k ldr....and i get fast trem out of it...

How do I measure an LDR? Since their resistance is dependent on light. Thanks

now thats a great question....i measured mine in indoor daylight no direct sun.....i didnt try it in the dark..hmmm..
but i got 4.5k..so i figured it was a 5k..but!.....

i just measured the diy vactoral and it read 80k now that its wrapped in shrink...so i guess it must be 100k or something..not sure on the
tolerance of these though!...!!!!my bet is it is 100k...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Scruffie on October 06, 2010, 07:30:55 PM
i used a standard 5mm red led with a 5k ldr....and i get fast trem out of it...

How do I measure an LDR? Since their resistance is dependent on light. Thanks

now thats a great question....i measured mine in indoor daylight no direct sun.....i didnt try it in the dark..hmmm..
but i got 4.5k..so i figured it was a 5k..but!.....

i just measured the diy vactoral and it read 80k now that its wrapped in shrink...so i guess it must be 100k or something..not sure on the
tolerance of these though!...!!!!my bet is it is 100k...

I think with some searching (admittedly this subject may be a broad search and could take a while) I read a thread a few months back by R.G. or someone of simmilar experience explaining how to measure them accuratley... have a check atleast.

Oh and by the way, really nice design, I love 2 knob designs, now it just needs a toggle switch to do something  :icon_mrgreen: that's my favourite kind of pedal layout.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 06, 2010, 07:35:13 PM
cheers scruffie..yeah i'll take  look...

yeah id like a simple toggle on it...just to on/off the depth !...and get choppy.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 07, 2010, 05:37:49 PM
I just wired this thing up, but i think i have a short somewhere ,because after flickering then getting very bright, i think i fried my led... :icon_surprised:
oh ,well- i'm gonna try and get it working tonight and i'll report back...
i saw your tiny panner and i may have to try that as well... just hope i didn't kill my chip, but the 555 i have is rated for up to 18v so i think it should be fine..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 07, 2010, 06:02:22 PM
Oh and by the way, really nice design, I love 2 knob designs, now it just needs a toggle switch to do something  :icon_mrgreen: that's my favourite kind of pedal layout.

You mean, like the switch for "in line"/"bleed" :)

I leave it for someone else to show a way to use the depth pot for both modes, cause I can't see a way. Just maybe there's a way to switch the pot between bleed controller and parallel with the ldr (I think that was deemed as good alternative for depth, wasn't it?).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 08, 2010, 03:05:24 AM
I just wired this thing up, but i think i have a short somewhere ,because after flickering then getting very bright, i think i fried my led... :icon_surprised:
oh ,well- i'm gonna try and get it working tonight and i'll report back...
i saw your tiny panner and i may have to try that as well... just hope i didn't kill my chip, but the 555 i have is rated for up to 18v so i think it should be fine..

hi gil, yeah the 555 should be fine, yep led's they are easy to pop..ha ha..
had no problems with mine though!.im using a 9v battery at the moment...havent tried it on my psu...!!!!!

@pelle. yeah i too was looking at having a simple toggle on the depth, rather than a stomp, just my preference!
cool layout you've done though, nice one!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on October 08, 2010, 04:00:20 AM
THE FINAL LAYOUT>> and SCHEMO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! :))) :icon_evil: :icon_exclaim: :icon_frown: :icon_lol: :icon_mad: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 08, 2010, 04:30:16 AM
THE FINAL LAYOUT>> and SCHEMO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! :))) :icon_evil: :icon_exclaim: :icon_frown: :icon_lol: :icon_mad: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_rolleyes:

layout on page 2 will work fine.....and perrow's  pcb layout ....

just working on a toggle switch to turn off depth!!!!. busy busy busy....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 08, 2010, 12:07:02 PM
THE FINAL LAYOUT>> and SCHEMO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! :))) :icon_evil: :icon_exclaim: :icon_frown: :icon_lol: :icon_mad: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_rolleyes:
layout on page 2 will work fine.....and perrow's  pcb layout ....

And my verified small vero layout on page 4!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: searoad on October 08, 2010, 10:52:31 PM
hi paully.
light dependant resistor...shine light in it and it reacts...so the led flashes into it..ok.
same as this..
http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/8/rn16DMoTEPw)

this one sounds great too!!
any more info about it?  :icon_surprised:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 09, 2010, 10:40:06 AM
THE FINAL LAYOUT>> and SCHEMO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! :))) :icon_evil: :icon_exclaim: :icon_frown: :icon_lol: :icon_mad: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_rolleyes:
layout on page 2 will work fine.....and perrow's  pcb layout ....

And my verified small vero layout on page 4!

@adriano..sorry forgot about that one too!. :icon_redface:...did you still have a clicking noise with it?..

@searoad. checkout youtube ' how to build a synth'...its pretty basic but i cant remember the details of it at the moment ok...
its a '74hc14 chip!...ldr and a pot..the light theremin!.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 09, 2010, 09:30:10 PM
@adriano..sorry forgot about that one too!. :icon_redface:...did you still have a clicking noise with it?..

Maybe I had a strange contact or whatsoever....anyway it seems I have that click no more...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 09, 2010, 09:38:39 PM
@adriano..sorry forgot about that one too!. :icon_redface:...did you still have a clicking noise with it?..

Maybe I had a strange contact or whatsoever....anyway it seems I have that click no more...

great stuff!.....so its good to go on your vero then!!!!....nice one. rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 09, 2010, 09:40:47 PM
yeah it's verifies as all of my $hit!  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 09, 2010, 09:47:31 PM
yeah it's verifies as all of my $hit!  :icon_twisted:

ha ha.... :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

now for the stereo panner/dual tremolo?.. ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Renegadrian on October 10, 2010, 05:09:22 AM
The next one on the coming week...I have to say I experienced some volume loss with the TT - maybe we can say it's better to boost the signal somehow...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 10, 2010, 06:57:31 AM
The next one on the coming week...I have to say I experienced some volume loss with the TT - maybe we can say it's better to boost the signal somehow...

did it lose level when boxed with a switch?....

a buffer was suggested early on, on this...maybe just a single transistor boost  stage ...

before or after though?..or both...what would you suggest?..or even a dual opamp!!!...hmmmm...

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 10, 2010, 03:35:22 PM
I would say tack on an lpb at the end. Simple, low parts count, good gain recovery.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 10, 2010, 03:37:08 PM
The next one on the coming week...I have to say I experienced some volume loss with the TT - maybe we can say it's better to boost the signal somehow...
But, you're doin' it inline aren't you? No bleeding for you IIRC.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nbabmf on October 11, 2010, 01:52:18 AM
How would you describe the waveform with the LED/LDR in series vs. as a shunt to ground?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 11, 2010, 06:01:43 AM
The next one on the coming week...I have to say I experienced some volume loss with the TT - maybe we can say it's better to boost the signal somehow...
But, you're doin' it inline aren't you? No bleeding for you IIRC.

am i missing something here!...how can it lose signal if its going straight in and out...or do you mean
when using the depth?..i guess!..rob.

@nbabnf!!!!...there are sample clips on this thread if that helps.not too au fait with scopes yet etc!!!!!...




Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on October 11, 2010, 08:35:46 AM

am i missing something here!...how can it lose signal if its going straight in and out...or do you mean
when using the depth?..i guess!..rob.



I'm coming into this one late...but it looks like the 'in' goes through a LDR & then straight 'out' again?

If so, this will definitely lose you some signal strength....likely at the input (if fed passively from a standard guitar out), but certainly at the 'out' where it feeds onwards to the next device.

This is because you've (in essence) got a potential divider scenario going on, with the divider 'chain' being....

'guitar Volume pot' ->
LDR 'resistance' in your circuit ->
'Impedance' of the follow on device.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 12, 2010, 03:56:39 AM

am i missing something here!...how can it lose signal if its going straight in and out...or do you mean
when using the depth?..i guess!..rob.



I'm coming into this one late...but it looks like the 'in' goes through a LDR & then straight 'out' again?

If so, this will definitely lose you some signal strength....likely at the input (if fed passively from a standard guitar out), but certainly at the 'out' where it feeds onwards to the next device.

This is because you've (in essence) got a potential divider scenario going on, with the divider 'chain' being....

'guitar Volume pot' ->
LDR 'resistance' in your circuit ->
'Impedance' of the follow on device.


cheers gurner....what would you recommend as a cure for this?...some kind of boost/lift
to the in/out...?..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on October 12, 2010, 04:52:47 AM

am i missing something here!...how can it lose signal if its going straight in and out...or do you mean
when using the depth?..i guess!..rob.



I'm coming into this one late...but it looks like the 'in' goes through a LDR & then straight 'out' again?

If so, this will definitely lose you some signal strength....likely at the input (if fed passively from a standard guitar out), but certainly at the 'out' where it feeds onwards to the next device.

This is because you've (in essence) got a potential divider scenario going on, with the divider 'chain' being....

'guitar Volume pot' ->
LDR 'resistance' in your circuit ->
'Impedance' of the follow on device.


cheers gurner....what would you recommend as a cure for this?...some kind of boost/lift
to the in/out...?..


A simple buffer will do (it has a high input impedance...so won't load the guitar signal down, and a low ouput impedance...which is preferable here) ....there are schems aplenty for buffers ....but of course, you 'tiny trem' is going to start getting a little less tiny (also being active, it will change change the tone of your signal...re-establishing the highs that you weren't getting as much of before - which can be quite a shock to ears that are used to a  long guitar cable acting as a low pass filter!).

But hey, I'm not criticising...I always roll with what's pleasing....not necessarily the most techie approach - the world needs more dabblers & if it give you the results (& there seems to be plenty on this thread who are chuffed)...just stick with it.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 12, 2010, 05:11:26 AM
@gurner. cheers man... yeah im a dabbler for sure!.. :icon_mrgreen:
old school suck it n see method...ha ha...

i'm sure it'll still be tiny-ish.. :icon_cool: i still have it on bboard anyway...among other dabbling projects.. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 12, 2010, 10:26:19 AM
IIRC volume drop was only an issue with the ldr inline, with bleeding it wasn't an issue.

One problem with bringing a boost on board is that signal and circuit ground will once again be connected and the risk of ticking from the 555 increases.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: elbandito on October 12, 2010, 07:17:33 PM
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43793&g2_serialNumber=2)
Noob question here: Is that a jumper between pins 1 & 5, there? Also, as I'm just getting into all of this, what watt capacitor should I get to build this? 1/4 watt resistors all around too, right?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: John Lyons on October 13, 2010, 12:12:56 AM
Yes, it's a jumper.
Capacitors are rated for voltage and capacitance.
Most caps are at least rated for 50 volts for film/ceramic and
16v for electrolytics. So you just need to worry about
the value in uf or pf (no pf caps in this circuit though)
and the physical size to fit in the layout. 5mm is the norm
for pedals etc. As long as you caps are twice as hing in volts
as the battery/power supply then you are fine. A 10v cap
would work but it's better to have some buffer...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 13, 2010, 02:44:46 AM
IIRC volume drop was only an issue with the ldr inline, with bleeding it wasn't an issue.

One problem with bringing a boost on board is that signal and circuit ground will once again be connected and the risk of ticking from the 555 increases.

hmmmm......i see what you mean now!.....through the ldr or not!!!!!...thanks perrow.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on October 13, 2010, 04:18:45 PM
So I breadboarded this and I'm getting the click from the chip because I have the input and output grounded on the same negative rail as the circuit which must be the cause... My question is, where do I ground in and out to avoid this buzzy clicking?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on October 13, 2010, 05:32:04 PM
Sorry to double post, but I think I'm mistaken...

I don't think I'm getting a click from the 555. Rather, I think I'm getting buzz when the guitar signal is reduced by the LDR... It sounds like I'm turning my amp on with nothing plugged in (which I am thinking is essentially what the function of the circuit is right? to block some or all of the guitar signal going into the amp?).

If this is the case, is there any way to lessen that buzz?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 14, 2010, 03:49:49 AM
Sorry to double post, but I think I'm mistaken...

I don't think I'm getting a click from the 555. Rather, I think I'm getting buzz when the guitar signal is reduced by the LDR... It sounds like I'm turning my amp on with nothing plugged in (which I am thinking is essentially what the function of the circuit is right? to block some or all of the guitar signal going into the amp?).

If this is the case, is there any way to lessen that buzz?

hi drew. there shouldnt be any buzzing! check your leads maybe!..this is a very clean circuit imo..ive had no problems with it...
ground will have to go to any ground for it to work...use a 3mm led for the rate led...5mm for the ldr...
dont forget the pin 1 to ground ....
heres how i had it breadboarded..hope this helps in some way... 8) rob.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrembreadboard.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on October 14, 2010, 02:27:11 PM
Ah! Excellent! That fixed my buzz slash tick problem. I dunno what I was thinking, I totally misinterpreted the schematic and had the ldr/led combo wired in all wonky.

Got another problem now though... If I have the rate led in, the led in the makeshift vactrol doesn't light up at all... Like the rate one saps all the current maybe?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: thehoj on October 14, 2010, 08:30:15 PM
For some reason I toasted my LED when I hooked it right up to the 555 timer.. I had to put a small resistor before the LED for it not to burn out.. Is that normal? Or did I have a bad LED? I don't want to test another one since I don't have anymore to spare.. 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pantufla on October 14, 2010, 11:24:26 PM
@perrow.. why the pin 4 connection?...

I misread Adriano's post and haven't had time to correct myself. Pin 4 of the IC needs to be either removed or at least bent so it's not connected. I've updated the image with a note about this. Reload if you don't see it.

On the other hand, I fixed it in ... [drumroll] ... the next version :) Even moved the rate led ground to the edge of the board.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytremv6wired.png)

 hay does it work? did u verify it?  I'd build it  but need to know if it is verified first.

cheers
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 15, 2010, 03:02:36 AM
Ah! Excellent! That fixed my buzz slash tick problem. I dunno what I was thinking, I totally misinterpreted the schematic and had the ldr/led combo wired in all wonky.

Got another problem now though... If I have the rate led in, the led in the makeshift vactrol doesn't light up at all... Like the rate one saps all the current maybe?

@ ratbones .that shouldnt happen, i made the stereo version, and both leds(vactrols) light up fine, and the 3mm rate led....no problem...
are you using standard red leds...not superbrights?...

@thehoi. havent had any problems like this....put both 5mm led in and the rate 3mm in then turn it on ok....should be fine.
never had to use a resistor...are you using batteries or a psu..make sure its 9v only ok...

@pantufla. i havent built this version no....maybe perrow has?????....mines still on a spare breadboard at the moment...
maybe you should look at the tiny stereo pannerversion too..dual tremolo...panning left right etc..only another vactrol and 2 resistors...
but you have the choice of 2 trems..use it as a normal trem, or stereo in the studio/live etc...i tried it, sounds great
adds a dynamic movement to the sound especially on solos, or picking stuff......check it out....rob. :icon_cool:

i uploaded a new video today of the tiny trem and stereo version....on breadboard still
i got a bit of clicking at first attempt.....so i stuck a 1000uf across the power supply..it was close at hand...cured..bit extreme but it worked.. :icon_rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/6/Hb0heYolcTc (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/6/Hb0heYolcTc)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 15, 2010, 07:32:36 AM
hay does it work? did u verify it?  I'd build it  but need to know if it is verified first.

cheers
Sorry, not verified yet, at least not by me. Waiting for parts and a pcb etched by another member.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 15, 2010, 07:59:43 AM
just a note going back to what gil(quackzed) was suggesting, about the wah type filter... i was thinking on this a bit more...

oh no maybe i shouldnt think/drink so much!!!!!.. :icon_mrgreen:

if we had a lo pass or a hi pass filter (or both) being controlled by led/ldr too then i think that should create the sweep yes?..
so it would go from lo to hi..with the rate of the leds..very simple too, like me  :P and all my ideas!.. :icon_rolleyes:

i feel another pedal coming on...any thoughts guys?..

oh no i need more ldrs again!!!!!!!!... :icon_rolleyes:....

i looked at hi and lo filters..i guess this is all there is to it yes?...apart from values..what values would you guys use?..
and would it be just the resistors that were replaced by ldrs..or as well as resistors...thinking aloud again!..
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/hilofilters.jpg)



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 15, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
I was thinking about that idea as well, except I can't get over the volume drop issue. The other thing I was considering was  just high-cut. Maybe have to use inductor, since it has the possibility of boosting some of the signals that don't get cut (yes, passively). Only thing I have is a RS 1.5k:8R tranny, and maybe an SMD or two. May have to call up my local NTE guy and see if he has any inductors.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 15, 2010, 09:47:23 AM
Has anyone tried the TLC555? That's all I have on hand at the moment (been trying to get to this, but somehow end up with another compressor build on my board at the end of the night...)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: earthtonesaudio on October 15, 2010, 10:11:34 AM
Quote
For some reason I toasted my LED when I hooked it right up to the 555 timer.. I had to put a small resistor before the LED for it not to burn out.. Is that normal?

There should always be a resistor or some other form of current limiting in series with the LED, otherwise its useful life will be reduced. 

Quote
If I have the rate led in, the led in the makeshift vactrol doesn't light up at all... Like the rate one saps all the current maybe?

If you're running two LEDs in parallel, in the same direction, each one needs its own resistor.  Two resistors allows independent current adjustment for each LED.  This is because parallel paths divide current; if one path is lower resistance, it will be higher current, and "steal" current away from the other path, so only one lights up.

Alternatively: you can wire them in opposite directions and tie them to opposite supply rails like in deadastronaut's Stereo Panner (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87409.msg734956#msg734956).  Or, you can wire them in the same direction, in series, and use only one resistor for the entire string.

Quote
Has anyone tried the TLC555?

It should work; possibly more efficiently and quieter than the bipolar 555.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 15, 2010, 11:12:50 AM
I was thinking about that idea as well, except I can't get over the volume drop issue. The other thing I was considering was  just high-cut. Maybe have to use inductor, since it has the possibility of boosting some of the signals that don't get cut (yes, passively). Only thing I have is a RS 1.5k:8R tranny, and maybe an SMD or two. May have to call up my local NTE guy and see if he has any inductors.

hi david..
i was even looking at the colorsound inductorless wah...which i have already built (in my graveyard).and nurse quacky....i remember swapping the wah
pot for an ldr..worked a treat...be nice to incorporate that into it...to get the sweep..wah filter effect...properly. :icon_idea:

@alex, i had no problems with the leds..even though they should really have a resistor i agree.....hmmm...anyway it works.. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pantufla on October 17, 2010, 11:33:01 PM
Ah! Excellent! That fixed my buzz slash tick problem. I dunno what I was thinking, I totally misinterpreted the schematic and had the ldr/led combo wired in all wonky.

Got another problem now though... If I have the rate led in, the led in the makeshift vactrol doesn't light up at all... Like the rate one saps all the current maybe?

@pantufla. i havent built this version no....maybe perrow has?????....mines still on a spare breadboard at the moment...
maybe you should look at the tiny stereo pannerversion too..dual tremolo...panning left right etc..only another vactrol and 2 resistors...
but you have the choice of 2 trems..use it as a normal trem, or stereo in the studio/live etc...i tried it, sounds great
adds a dynamic movement to the sound especially on solos, or picking stuff......check it out....rob. :icon_cool:

i uploaded a new video today of the tiny trem and stereo version....on breadboard still
i got a bit of clicking at first attempt.....so i stuck a 1000uf across the power supply..it was close at hand...cured..bit extreme but it worked.. :icon_rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/6/Hb0heYolcTc (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/6/Hb0heYolcTc)

thanks dude, but  i now hot to bulid  pedals from a layout only, it easier for me cos  i spend  few menutes y create a PCB from a layout. anay way im gonna try it !!

PS nice tremelo you tiny panner
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 18, 2010, 04:17:40 AM
thanks , and good luck. 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: wormfooduk on October 19, 2010, 05:31:39 AM
I have a few 12mm ldrs are they ok for this tremolo or do i need to get some smaller ones? As far as i can see online the big ones only have a lower ambient resistanace?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 19, 2010, 06:10:29 AM
I have a few 12mm ldrs are they ok for this tremolo or do i need to get some smaller ones? As far as i can see online the big ones only have a lower ambient resistanace?

wow 12mm....ldr's . i would breadboard it first (in the dark) to see how they react...might be interesting..
might need a couple of torches lol... :icon_mrgreen:

personally though i would use the 5m to go with the 5m leds..then shrink wrap....good luck..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: soapamp on October 22, 2010, 09:30:23 AM
Hi.. Rob

1) I built one and had sound "tick"  I use NE-555
2) Output Level is very low, the dept control also less affect when turn CW.  Do "LDR" value effect to the output level and dept control.?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 22, 2010, 09:51:40 AM
hi soapamp...i was messing around with the tiny/stereo  last week,  still breadboarded. :icon_rolleyes:

i cured the click (which was barely noticable unless up loud.) with a cap across the power(from pos to ground ), i grabbed a 1000uf which is overkill but i
got rid of any click, i didnt try others, just what came to hand before dashing out.....try a 100uf/220uf maybe!....

havent got time to try it myself ok.busy busy busy..... all the best rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: soapamp on October 22, 2010, 10:06:24 AM
hi soapamp...i was messing around with the tiny/stereo  last week,  still breadboarded. :icon_rolleyes:

i cured the click (which was barely noticable unless up loud.) with a cap across the power(from pos to ground ), i grabbed a 1000uf which is overkill but i
got rid of any click, i didnt try others, just what came to hand before dashing out.....try a 100uf/220uf maybe!....

havent got time to try it myself ok.busy busy busy..... all the best rob.

Rob... I will try it on tomorrow.    How about LDR.?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 22, 2010, 10:28:05 AM
Hmmm..not sure on the value and response on ldrs...i just bought a few ages ago and they were ok...

these are the ones i bought. 9k-22k....

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35963&OrderCode=N53AY (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35963&OrderCode=N53AY)

hope this helps.


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: john.hostetter on October 22, 2010, 04:49:37 PM
Hey y'all. I'm excited to build this little guy, but I can't seem to get my LED to flash. It'll light up...but no flashing! I'm using an LM555CM from radioshack. Could that be the problem? Do I need the CMOS version?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 23, 2010, 12:09:17 AM
Hey, Rob. I tried out the CSIW out, and it works (BUT I cheated... I didn't have the room to use the 555, but I had to try it for a break from my current project, so I used an MV-52 tap tempo... major clicking, at least the way I had it set up, but for kicks it worked).

I tried the original values first. Not too bad, but gets lost at faster speeds... not quite a shimmer. This is with square on/off, though.

I plugged in my bass and started using a BMP gain stage and a t-filter in feedback, parallel with the 470K. Once you find the right match of caps, it works wonderfully. I went through all the Morley Power Wah schems and tried their cap values. A couple combos I remember working really good, nice 'Q'uack to them, were  2.2n / 10n, 10n / 4.7n. Symmetrical caps didn't allow the sound to shift as much.

I did this the other day, but I kind of remember having gain issues. WHEN I get back to it, I'll keep log of my findings, lol... I'm so bad about that. I have so many unlabeled schems. But, I think it sounds to have good potential. I just want to actually try it out with the 555... it didn't click, lol. It just took up a bit more room than I comfortably had left on my board, so I opted for the shortcut to get the urge out of my system for a bit.

Oh yeah, one idea if you happen to mess with it, take the LDR to the + voltage rail, drop the lower base bias resistor, and drop the emitter resistor in the BMP gain stage. I haven't tried it yet, but I kind of remember it having a different effect on the sound when I was trying it with an envelope follower before. I can't remember what the difference was, but I do remember I switched between ground and positive with a toggle for awhile playing with it. Also, because I think you'll dig it, try the feedback in a Bazz Fuss circuit. The BF really seems to emphasize the Q nicely. I have been thinking about making a metal case for the electronics that would house them in an "extension" of the pot's housing, paint it yellow with a duck's head (gear being the beak), make an open-frame wah pedal, and call it a "QuackPot". ;D (hey, it makes me laugh!)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Quackzed on October 23, 2010, 12:30:17 AM
 :D "quack,quack,quack,quack,quack,.."
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: john.hostetter on October 23, 2010, 02:26:17 AM
This may be redundant, but what isn't on this board? I solved my own problem, the crapshack 555 needs drastically different voltages/resistor values to get a flashing LED. Tomorrow I will post the values what got me closest to sensei deadastronaut's schemo.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 23, 2010, 11:24:25 PM
Hey, john... is that the TLC one?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 24, 2010, 08:27:39 AM
Hey, Rob. I tried out the CSIW out, and it works (BUT I cheated... I didn't have the room to use the 555, but I had to try it for a break from my current project, so I used an MV-52 tap tempo... major clicking, at least the way I had it set up, but for kicks it worked).

I tried the original values first. Not too bad, but gets lost at faster speeds... not quite a shimmer. This is with square on/off, though.

I plugged in my bass and started using a BMP gain stage and a t-filter in feedback, parallel with the 470K. Once you find the right match of caps, it works wonderfully. I went through all the Morley Power Wah schems and tried their cap values. A couple combos I remember working really good, nice 'Q'uack to them, were  2.2n / 10n, 10n / 4.7n. Symmetrical caps didn't allow the sound to shift as much.

I did this the other day, but I kind of remember having gain issues. WHEN I get back to it, I'll keep log of my findings, lol... I'm so bad about that. I have so many unlabeled schems. But, I think it sounds to have good potential. I just want to actually try it out with the 555... it didn't click, lol. It just took up a bit more room than I comfortably had left on my board, so I opted for the shortcut to get the urge out of my system for a bit.

Oh yeah, one idea if you happen to mess with it, take the LDR to the + voltage rail, drop the lower base bias resistor, and drop the emitter resistor in the BMP gain stage. I haven't tried it yet, but I kind of remember it having a different effect on the sound when I was trying it with an envelope follower before. I can't remember what the difference was, but I do remember I switched between ground and positive with a toggle for awhile playing with it. Also, because I think you'll dig it, try the feedback in a Bazz Fuss circuit. The BF really seems to emphasize the Q nicely. I have been thinking about making a metal case for the electronics that would house them in an "extension" of the pot's housing, paint it yellow with a duck's head (gear being the beak), make an open-frame wah pedal, and call it a "QuackPot". ;D (hey, it makes me laugh!)

hi david, excellent, we have got to hear that , quack quack quackiness....quackpot... :icon_mrgreen:

@john, i used a bog standard 555 i found in an old tub of bits... :-\ this is the writing on mine..ua555ic/f7617
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 26, 2010, 07:43:50 PM
Ok, so let's see we want no ticking, I'll solve that by separating signal path from circuit (signal and ground)

Sorry for the noob question but I'm still getting clicking and not sure how to do this? Separating signal path from circuit that is.
Also the 100uf cap from + to - thats just directly going from the 9 volt to ground?  or is it some were in the circuit?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 27, 2010, 03:23:45 AM
Ok, so let's see we want no ticking, I'll solve that by separating signal path from circuit (signal and ground)

Sorry for the noob question but I'm still getting clicking and not sure how to do this? Separating signal path from circuit that is.
Also the 100uf cap from + to - thats just directly going from the 9 volt to ground?  or is it some were in the circuit?
As for separating the signal path from the circuit path just look at the latest pcb design. Power ground is never in contact with signal ground, that should solve any ticking.

Yes, the 100uF (or greater) cap should go from + to -, that should do it as well (unless of course your ldr finds a way to tick but I'm not certain that's possible).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 27, 2010, 08:38:28 AM
Thanks I think I know whats going on with mine. I have a setup in my workbench with the grounds connected to so have to make a harness for this thanks.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 27, 2010, 08:46:55 AM
@perrow, have you finished/built this then.?..just wondered.

i'm working on a colorsound inductorless wah version and am going to try and incorporate the tiny trem too...

driving the wah from ldr's...as well as the trem..just for fun...

will bread it tomorrow maybe.. and see how it goes... ;)..got a lot on at the mo..i never find enough time to do all the stuff i want..

and plenty of time to avoid the stuff i should do...

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........... :icon_mrgreen:


heres the breadboard of the wah for anyone who wants to play with it...
its not verified btw...i knocked it up quick ....so if there are mistakes tell us all...cheers...rob.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/wahbb.gif)

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 27, 2010, 05:10:15 PM
@perrow, have you finished/built this then.?..just wondered.

No, not yet. Commented using my vulcan logic ;D Sorry if I sounded to sure of what I'm speaking about  :icon_redface:

Still waiting for kindly etched pcb's to arrive, as well as waiting for my mind and my wallet to come to some sort of consensus for my next parts order, they're getting closer but are still negotiating.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: El Heisenberg on October 27, 2010, 05:33:33 PM
Argh! Why am I building another tremolo after building the tremulus lune?!?!


I'm going to put this tremolo in a guitar I think
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 28, 2010, 03:55:15 AM
@perrow, have you finished/built this then.?..just wondered.

No, not yet. Commented using my vulcan logic ;D Sorry if I sounded to sure of what I'm speaking about  :icon_redface:

Still waiting for kindly etched pcb's to arrive, as well as waiting for my mind and my wallet to come to some sort of consensus for my next parts order, they're getting closer but are still negotiating.

waiting...yeah i know how that feels, been waiting for a midi keyboard off ebay for 9 days, the silly arse seller
sent it by second class post..arghhhhh..he could do with some of that vulcan logic... :icon_mrgreen:

@el heisenberg. coz its fun and very cheap, ;)
 good idea whacking it in a guitar, like those old 60/70's guitars used to have....
cool. rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 10:22:44 AM
@perrow.. why the pin 4 connection?...

I misread Adriano's post and haven't had time to correct myself. Pin 4 of the IC needs to be either removed or at least bent so it's not connected. I've updated the image with a note about this. Reload if you don't see it.

On the other hand, I fixed it in ... [drumroll] ... the next version :) Even moved the rate led ground to the edge of the board.

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytremv6wired.png)

 hay does it work? did u verify it?  I'd build it  but need to know if it is verified first.

cheers

Ok im not great at reading these but were is the LED ground going to?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 28, 2010, 10:24:15 AM
where it says led ground!... ;)

oh do you mean the 'rate led?...

that would be off board , in the top of your enclosure...just take the - leg to a ground...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 11:29:45 AM
ok to what ground? lol
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 11:36:19 AM
oh just to the eonclosure?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 28, 2010, 12:22:49 PM
its there already dude...just had a other look..... :icon_rolleyes: lol..

where it says led ground...because your other led is already on there!!!!!!....

ha ha..you got me at it there!... :icon_mrgreen:

edit: so where it says rate led = +led
and ground led = - led!.... :icon_mrgreen: sorted.


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 12:39:59 PM
Ok last try I see were the led goes to C1 then goes down and says led ground and D1 for some reason? whats D1 and what is that connection for?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 28, 2010, 12:44:22 PM
hi man d1 means diode..which is what an led is..'light emitting diode'.

so yes one negative - led goes next to c1..
and the negative of the other led goes to 'led ground..

the positives of both leds are connected together on there ok..

watch your positive and negatives....
here ya go...apologies to perrow for butchering ya pcb.. :icon_redface: :icon_mrgreen:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/Tinytremv6wired.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 01:00:57 PM
ok last question I promise what does the led ground connect to? It just  connects the 2 negative LED's together because when I do that they don't flash. I guess im not understand were offboard?  Promise my last question if i cant get rid of this clicking it's going in the trash.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on October 28, 2010, 01:01:41 PM
Lol delete last question thanks
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 28, 2010, 01:06:31 PM
ok got it.....lol.... :icon_mrgreen:


have you still got clicking?... i stuck a large uf cap across  the pos and neg sorted it for me, ..



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 29, 2010, 09:36:24 AM
You guys are gonna like this one... I am rummaging through my email and start reading the DIYAudio newsletter. There's an article about a "Lightspeed Attenuator" thread by George Stancheff. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/80194-lightspeed-attenuator-new-passive-preamp.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/80194-lightspeed-attenuator-new-passive-preamp.html)

You have to have an account there to view the schem link, but basically it's an LDR in the signal path, and an LDR shunt to ground. One is on while the other is off. Solid state controlled passive volume control. Just gotta modify the tiny trem to run 2 LED's.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 29, 2010, 09:58:50 AM
Hmm, worked this up on Perrow's layout (didn't want to mail you the pcbs until it was verified Perrow! :) ) My 555 got REALLY hot, although i could get tremolo for a bit. I like it, but I need to get this sorted out so I don't catch my pedal on fire....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 29, 2010, 10:09:52 AM
Don't feel bad... I keep cheating, using a schmitt trigger oscillator. I keep forgetting to get a regular 555. The TLC I have does nothing but light up the LED for a second then goes off. I even tried other configurations, no dice.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 29, 2010, 10:18:00 AM
Hmm, worked this up on Perrow's layout (didn't want to mail you the pcbs until it was verified Perrow! :) ) My 555 got REALLY hot, although i could get tremolo for a bit. I like it, but I need to get this sorted out so I don't catch my pedal on fire....
Could it be (and this is a stab in the dark) that the leds should have resistors and without them you're drawing slightly too much current from the 555?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on October 29, 2010, 10:51:33 AM
hot?.....

weird, although i have never measured the voltage coming off the 555 to the leds!!!!...

but i have no heat issues, may be the model of 555..another stab in the dark!.. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on October 29, 2010, 12:41:03 PM
I want to build one of these but can't find parts! AAAaaaarGHH!!  :icon_evil:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on October 29, 2010, 01:36:44 PM
All the parts you need can actually be found at the 'Shack'.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on October 29, 2010, 02:02:57 PM
another stab in the dark!.. :icon_wink:

Or is that, in this case, a stab in the blinking lights?

And by the way, I have no problem with anyone modding this pcb design. To be honest, the "9V-" on my design should really say "Ground" or "Power ground", kinda looks like I'm asking people to use a bipolar power supply (I'm not).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 29, 2010, 03:38:22 PM
Hmm, worked this up on Perrow's layout (didn't want to mail you the pcbs until it was verified Perrow! :) ) My 555 got REALLY hot, although i could get tremolo for a bit. I like it, but I need to get this sorted out so I don't catch my pedal on fire....
Could it be (and this is a stab in the dark) that the leds should have resistors and without them you're drawing slightly too much current from the 555?

well, the rate flashing LED does have a resistor already on it. I should also not that I used a pre-fab optocoupler that is very close to the silonex NSL32. maybe that is it, i'm not sure. I'll try with a roll your own.

At any rate Perrow, I know the layout works because I did get tremolo for a bit before I felt the heat and disconnected. I'll try to get around to drilling some of these up for you now.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on October 30, 2010, 12:19:31 PM
Hmm, worked this up on Perrow's layout (didn't want to mail you the pcbs until it was verified Perrow! :) ) My 555 got REALLY hot, although i could get tremolo for a bit. I like it, but I need to get this sorted out so I don't catch my pedal on fire....
Could it be (and this is a stab in the dark) that the leds should have resistors and without them you're drawing slightly too much current from the 555?

well, the rate flashing LED does have a resistor already on it. I should also not that I used a pre-fab optocoupler that is very close to the silonex NSL32. maybe that is it, i'm not sure. I'll try with a roll your own.

At any rate Perrow, I know the layout works because I did get tremolo for a bit before I felt the heat and disconnected. I'll try to get around to drilling some of these up for you now.

You guys sellin' those boards? I wouldn't mind having one...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on October 30, 2010, 05:14:55 PM
Hmm, worked this up on Perrow's layout (didn't want to mail you the pcbs until it was verified Perrow! :) ) My 555 got REALLY hot, although i could get tremolo for a bit. I like it, but I need to get this sorted out so I don't catch my pedal on fire....
Could it be (and this is a stab in the dark) that the leds should have resistors and without them you're drawing slightly too much current from the 555?

well, the rate flashing LED does have a resistor already on it. I should also not that I used a pre-fab optocoupler that is very close to the silonex NSL32. maybe that is it, i'm not sure. I'll try with a roll your own.

At any rate Perrow, I know the layout works because I did get tremolo for a bit before I felt the heat and disconnected. I'll try to get around to drilling some of these up for you now.

You guys sellin' those boards? I wouldn't mind having one...
are you in the continental us? if so i'll mail you one.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pie-key on November 01, 2010, 12:15:37 AM
is there any way we could put a wave shaper? like a tremulus lune with shape pot...

SQAURE/SAWTOOTH/TRIANGLE/or SINE

it would be nice i think....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 01, 2010, 01:25:41 AM
is there any way we could put a wave shaper? like a tremulus lune with shape pot...

SQAURE/SAWTOOTH/TRIANGLE/or SINE

it would be nice i think....

That's the thing about circuits like this, people always want to add complicated features, which would turn it into another pedal. The point of this one is that it is a decent tremolo with small parts count. The more stuff you build into it, the more it turns into just another tremolo...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Slade on November 01, 2010, 01:32:40 AM
is there any way we could put a wave shaper? like a tremulus lune with shape pot...

SQAURE/SAWTOOTH/TRIANGLE/or SINE

it would be nice i think....

That's the thing about circuits like this, people always want to add complicated features, which would turn it into another pedal. The point of this one is that it is a decent tremolo with small parts count. The more stuff you build into it, the more it turns into just another tremolo...
Yeah, sometimes people looks for a "magic" and fast mod to get professional effects from really simple circuits like this.
In the case anybody wants that functions a Tremulus Lune is much more that an option to build.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 01, 2010, 12:55:28 PM
yep simplicity... :icon_wink:

heres a video demo..still on breadboard... :icon_rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/0/Hb0heYolcTc (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/0/Hb0heYolcTc)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on November 01, 2010, 01:43:27 PM
Good lord, that's wonderful Rob.

I could watch that clip for years.  The gently flickering leds, the beautiful chordal stuff......completely hypnotic.  Feels like I'm on mandrax.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 01, 2010, 01:51:37 PM
 :icon_mrgreen:
yeah top quality video production...ha ha...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pie-key on November 04, 2010, 06:51:31 AM
@deadastronaut

what is your preferred LED type based on:

COLOR?
SIZE?
TYPE?(super bright, water clear, etc.)

im planning to build my own...

thanks a lot...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 04, 2010, 07:07:50 AM
@deadastronaut

what is your preferred LED type based on:

COLOR?
SIZE?
TYPE?(super bright, water clear, etc.)

im planning to build my own...

thanks a lot...

funny you should ask, im messing around with a 5mm superbright blue and an ldr right now as i type..with a wah...
and it works fine..
i used red standard led (not super or clear)because thats what ive always seen used on other diy vactrols..
also on morley wahs, compressors etc...seems to be a standard way of doing it..i also read about it somewhere...

i used 5mm to best fit with the size of the ldr.

experiment with  the superbrights/clears, they seem to be a bit more on/offy than the diffused reds..
well it does to my eyes /ears...what harm can it do?.apart from drain a battery quicker, but i use psu only....experiment.. :icon_mrgreen:



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on November 04, 2010, 09:55:19 AM
I was reading some datasheets on LDR's. Most (every one that I read) use the red range of light, around 650nm. I tried a green and got hardly any resistance change with one of my LDR's, but reds do the trick. UV didn't do a damned thing with the ones I have.

I did read in some other thread (not here) about using LDR's that are made to respond to different color ranges. The people were using them to respond to the stage lights for some reason or another, but I haven't come across any personally.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 04, 2010, 11:21:29 AM
I was reading some datasheets on LDR's. Most (every one that I read) use the red range of light, around 650nm. I tried a green and got hardly any resistance change with one of my LDR's, but reds do the trick. UV didn't do a damned thing with the ones I have.

I did read in some other thread (not here) about using LDR's that are made to respond to different color ranges. The people were using them to respond to the stage lights for some reason or another, but I haven't come across any personally.
I searched the subject earlier for my parts order, and found a thread saying green was the preffered choise  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 04, 2010, 10:31:20 PM
Has anyone received a PCB for this yet? There was a guy making them and I PM'ed and asked for one but never got a response...  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 04, 2010, 11:17:21 PM
Has anyone received a PCB for this yet? There was a guy making them and I PM'ed and asked for one but never got a response...  :icon_redface:
That would be me, sorry. I've been swamped with work and have multiple PCBs (including yours) on my desk that I haven't been able to get to the post office. I'll get them all out this weekend, I promise.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on November 04, 2010, 11:39:37 PM
I tried a green and got hardly any resistance change
I searched the subject earlier for my parts order, and found a thread saying green was the preffered choise  ???

Scratch that... it was yellow. I just tried it, but I have other LDR's I just tried that respond much more nicely to the yellow and way too aggressively to the red. Most worked sluggishly with the green, except for one that worked great. I marked it and put it back in the bag  ;) I may use it someday for a special project.

Like I said, though... apparently, according to some others (I haven't looked it up myself yet) LDR's are made to respond to different wavelengths as part of their function. I kinda remember when I noticed the nm range in datasheets that I had seen others in different ranges. I just wasn't paying much attention to that and was looking for min and max resistances at the time, though.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on November 04, 2010, 11:58:40 PM
Hey deadastronaut, could I bother you to repost that colorsound wah breadboard layout again? I tried building it from the schematic and must have done something goofy... Thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 05, 2010, 03:28:51 AM
That would be me, sorry. I've been swamped with work and have multiple PCBs (including yours) on my desk that I haven't been able to get to the post office. I'll get them all out this weekend, I promise.

No worries! I was just wondering what was going on with it.  ;D

Thanks again for the PCB. I've got all my goodies together for this project. I picked up a CMOS 555, couple red LED's and a 'grab bag' of LDR's at radio shack. I think it had like 5 different LDR's in it. I had a little trouble tracking down a 47k pot so I went with a 50k but it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 05, 2010, 03:53:48 AM
Hey deadastronaut, could I bother you to repost that colorsound wah breadboard layout again? I tried building it from the schematic and must have done something goofy... Thanks!

@ratbones .its on page 8...i havent done this myself yet though...so its not a verified layout,....yet!.
if in doubt find the schematic and check ok....

@all. hmmm..so the led debate is still in the air then...hmmm...
i read that some use yellow,green and red for various projects also...!!!...

i know if i shine a superbright blue into an ldr it works though...on a wah,..(crap nurse quacky).
it opens right up..in daylight with no wrap... :icon_mrgreen: so theyre great for testing at least...



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: tuckster on November 05, 2010, 08:45:33 AM
Why do all my LED burn out if I don't use a series resistor? You don't use wann either.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 05, 2010, 08:49:06 AM
no idea..mines ok...

i havent measured the voltages off the 555 to the leds...

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pie-key on November 05, 2010, 10:50:08 AM
.....

how about some BULBS?

i think they can make dramatic slow light ON/OFF sequence.... don't you think?


well ill go back to the lab now...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 05, 2010, 11:47:33 AM
do you want mood lighting inside it... :icon_mrgreen:

a chill out lounge for a 555..... :icon_mrgreen:

seriously...id stick with leds...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on November 05, 2010, 04:45:49 PM
Weird, I found the post I had seen it in before on pg 8 but it's not showing up for me now for some reason...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on November 08, 2010, 07:26:49 PM
Turns out my goofy antivirus was blocking it for some reason. I breadboarded it following your layout but didn't have some of the necessary cap values.

And... It didn't work. Dunno if it was my substituting, or the layout though.

I did manage to get it working using the optochopto schematic though. It sounds really cool. Now I'm working on a triangle or saw wave lfo so it sounds more perty.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 09, 2010, 03:33:57 AM
Turns out my goofy antivirus was blocking it for some reason. I breadboarded it following your layout but didn't have some of the necessary cap values.

And... It didn't work. Dunno if it was my substituting, or the layout though.

I did manage to get it working using the optochopto schematic though. It sounds really cool. Now I'm working on a triangle or saw wave lfo so it sounds more perty.

hi man, just breaded the wah, from schematic, not the breadboard i posted though!..all works fine
am messing with values on it today..and all the available mods..to try out...might add  buffer/boost on it..
as for the beavis optochopto, yeah that looks good, lets hear a sample when your done..sounds a cool idea..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 12, 2010, 05:24:15 PM
I perf boarded this baby and can't get it to do anything for me. I used one side of a 556 timer. When I turn it on both LED's flash on for a split second and then turn off.

I built the version with signal and power grounds connected, input jack to turn it on, with a dpdt footswitch turning off the LDR and my rate LED (as an indicator) for bypass. I get the clean guitar signal but no LED's and hence no tremolo effect... Changing the pots has no effect either.

Any ideas? I need to check the voltage coming off the output of the 556 I think...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on November 12, 2010, 05:42:25 PM
When I turn it on both LED's flash on for a split second and then turn off.

Same thing I get. Try increasing the resistor and pot by 10x and decreasing the cap by 10x... haven't tried it yet, myself. Should take a bit of the load off the chip, but your LED may not work. If so, try increasing your resistance by, say 2 times, and decrease your cap by 2 times, or 3x, etc. Just make sure whatever factor you increase the resistors, to decrease the cap by the same factor. This will keep it running like it should, timing wise.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 12, 2010, 08:33:01 PM
I'm not getting any voltage on the output of the 556... For some reason the LED's will flash on for a second if I connect my input signal to ground... Not sure what I screwed up here...  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 15, 2010, 11:36:24 AM
I have 9v to Vcc on my 556 but no voltage coming off the output of the chip. Any ideas?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 15, 2010, 12:09:06 PM
I have 9v to Vcc on my 556 but no voltage coming off the output of the chip. Any ideas?

hmmm strange, check the schematic on page 3...sounds like somethings wrong there..

i take it you havent got a 555..so are using one side of a 556..should be ok, just double check the pin connections though!.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: knealebrown on November 15, 2010, 04:34:52 PM
so maplin sells LDR's in varying resistance bands,  which do u recommend?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35962

i know i should be doing my uni work but this is so simple i can pick up the parts on my way home and have some 'me time'  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 15, 2010, 06:50:04 PM
hmmm strange, check the schematic on page 3...sounds like somethings wrong there..

i take it you havent got a 555..so are using one side of a 556..should be ok, just double check the pin connections though!.

Yeah something funky is going on. I built it per the schematic since I used a 556 instead of a 555, so the board and vero layouts wouldn't do me any good anyway. Everything seems to be in order but it seems like both sides of my LEDs are connected to ground. I get 9v from Vcc of the 556 to either leg on both LEDs... I must be missing something here...

I built mine on perf... Could someone post a drawing with all the pot and switch connections minus the inline/bleed switch please?  :-\
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: tombola on November 15, 2010, 09:17:41 PM
Beautiful design Deadastronaut, so simple. Love the way it's bidirectional - you don't need to label In and Out, because it doesn't matter which you use.

Only problem I have is with quite noticeable ticking. I built it with two grounds - checked with the meter, there's no connection between battery ground and audio ground. Have a 100uf cap between +9v and (power) ground. I've tried it with two adaptors and a 9v battery, different guitars, different amps. It's there when depth is at zero - i.e. the LDR isn't bleeding anything to ground.

Is there anything else I can try? Thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Earthscum on November 15, 2010, 10:08:19 PM
I figured out with other oscillators (I can't get a 555 to do anything for me, so I cheat  ;) ) that it's basically sending a quick spike to the LED when it switches on. I tried RC network that seemed to work pretty decent at suppressing the spikes, one that seemed to work fairly decent was just a 47uF between the output and the diode. That was working on a CMOS 40106 oscillator, but wouldn't work for crap (at least the way I had it plugged together) with the MV-52.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 15, 2010, 10:12:34 PM
Beautiful design Deadastronaut, so simple. Love the way it's bidirectional - you don't need to label In and Out, because it doesn't matter which you use.

Only problem I have is with quite noticeable ticking. I built it with two grounds - checked with the meter, there's no connection between battery ground and audio ground. Have a 100uf cap between +9v and (power) ground. I've tried it with two adaptors and a 9v battery, different guitars, different amps. It's there when depth is at zero - i.e. the LDR isn't bleeding anything to ground.

Is there anything else I can try? Thanks!
if you are using a current limiting resistor, try increasing the resistor. Also, try moving your board around and see if it still happens. Sometimes proximity can cause bleed over.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloooooooooo00000 now with 3in1.....
Post by: deadastronaut on November 16, 2010, 04:23:28 AM
so maplin sells LDR's in varying resistance bands,  which do u recommend?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35962

i know i should be doing my uni work but this is so simple i can pick up the parts on my way home and have some 'me time'  ;)

hi kneale, i went with the n46ay's....ive had a few different ones though and there didnt seem much different in the response...

@metalupyaeye. both led legs to ground...have you got a breadboard?, i would sort this out on there first...

@tombola, yes i stuck a 1000uf across 9v - and it was silent, extreme i know but it worked and was quick to grab from a pile of bits
..maybe try a 220/470..!!!!!..or do what barcode recommends.

@earthscum, yeah the 40106 should be ok, as in beavis optochopto...check it out everyone...its an alternative...

anyway,hi guys . ive been a busy little bee again, and finally got round to combining the colorsound wah with the tiny trem,
into one unit/pedal design.. it will be a 3 in 1 pedal with 2 toggle switches, so you will have
wah, trem ,and a tremwah....switchable.....i kind of like the wah as a non treadle filter type thing..and its great with the trem too..quackolo.. :icon_mrgreen:
the only problem i can see is running both off the same dc socket, anyone got any idea if this would be a problem?.....................

@perrow, your going to be busy with this pcb layout... :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
but it would be nice to have this on pcb, as the vero is understandably wide due to my veroing skills..(wheres adriano the master vero shrinker demon?.).
heres the idea..messy i know, was up late doing it... :icon_wink:
here ya go...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/atremawahatremwah2.gif)

basically i glued a wah to the trem with a couple of toggles................ :icon_mrgreen:

any ideas, advice, any faults you can see...???????.....






Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 16, 2010, 11:09:30 AM
@deadastronaut - I don't have a breadboard... I'm looking at the schematic from page 3 and then looking at the vero layout you guys posted and seeing differences. In the schematic you have the depth pot controlling the LDR. In the vero layout you have it controlling the LED. The schematic also has the negative lead of the LED (the one that points at the LDR) going to nowhere in the schematic but going to ground in the vero layout. Mine is connected to ground...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 16, 2010, 11:44:31 AM
ahhhhh i see where your coming from now....
yep all leds go to ground .. i missed that symbol....
the vero on page 2 (below) is correct....the depth controls the led...but  both methods will work!...
as with all projects they get changed/improved or simply end up with a  different way of doing the same thing...
as perrow did with his pcb version too.....
i cant recommend buying a cheap breadboard enough!..try em out first..ive made lots of stuff thats ended up in the bin,or shelf..
thats normal if not annoying..but now i bread everything.it saves money time and waste..and above all frustration..
but these small projects can be knocked up and tried in minutes..literally..
hope this helps. rob.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 16, 2010, 03:29:32 PM
I'm back after 2 hours of tearing my hair out trying to figure this out. I discovered that I put in a .47uf cap instead of a 47uf.   :icon_redface: But the trouble doesn't stop there. I tried a different 556 to make sure its not the IC but i'm getting the same results. The datasheet says that the threshold and trigger pins must be connected for astable operation, which from what I gather is what we're using here. Mine are connected but i'm still getting what appears to be monostable operation. After changing the cap i've discovered that now I can vary the length that the LED stays on when you initially power up the circuit, but it still only comes on once and then shuts off completely. After that i'm getting no voltage on the output pin whatsoever. I've checked my connections probably 50 times and everything seems to be in order. There has to be something i'm missing though. I checked the resistor to make sure and its a 470 ohm, just like in the schematic. Red LED with a 270 ohm current limiting resistor and a blue super bright for a rate LED with something like a 330 ohm resistor.

Vcc is ~ 8.9-9v
Discharge is ~0.2v
Threshold is ~ 8.9-9v
Control is ~ 5.6-5.9v
Reset is ~ 0.2v
Output is 0v (after it shuts off from the initial startup)
Trigger is ~ 8.9-9v (because its connected to Threshold)

I'm not sure it matters but I used the 'side B' of the 556 rather than the 'side A.' It shouldn't make a difference though as each side is supposed to function independently.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: p_wats on November 16, 2010, 10:05:53 PM
I've been following this thread for a long time, excited to find spare moments to build this little guy. Unfortunately, I've breadboarded it several different ways and the ticking just won't go away no matter what (470uf cap from + to - doesn't work for me, neither does messing with the grounds).

It's soooo close!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 16, 2010, 10:24:46 PM
It's soooo close!

Tell me about it. I've gone over the schematic and layouts time and time again looking for errors, moved things around and read datasheets for the 555 and 556 over and over. I still can't figure it out. The signal path works great and the speed control even works but I can't get the 556 to run in astable mode for some reason. So I get about 2.5 seconds of sound and then a complete cut-out...

I read somewhere that the reset pin should be connected to Vcc in astable mode, but I connected mine and I still get the same effect. I've tried 2 different 556 IC's and even wired an extra socket to try 'side A' of one of the 556's with no luck.

The only thing I have different about mine is that I have current limiting resistors in series with the positive leads of the LED's. But I don't see that it would make a difference since i'm still not getting any output voltage from the 556.

I have a 555 sitting here but I don't see how it would matter if I wired it in place of the 556. I'm hesitant to build another one since i've put 4 hours into troubleshooting this first one and its still royalling kicking my ass. Plus I was saving the 555 for when I get a PCB for this project but I still haven't recieved one... At this rate I might just give in and abandon it.

And its not like i'm brand new at this. I've built several pedals and battery amps in the past, but this is the first circuit this simple that has ever had its foot up my butt...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 01:29:10 AM
Sorry for the double post.

I got my 555/6 timer working. It actually wasn't my fault... There is a mistake on that schematic. Lug 1 of the 47k speed pot should go to the other side of the 470r resistor and to pin 7, rather than to pin 8 as the schematic reads. The vero layout is correct though.

Now I have to get the signal part working... Ugh. After this i'm done with *simple* projects...  :P
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 05:02:00 AM
man i cant believe you guys are having so much grief......
renegadrian did say there was a bit of ticking on it, but i thought we got rid of that..

ok..im going to bread this again with a 555.. (without the depth too, and go back to the basics)
just to see where any problem may lie ok.

btw..i didnt use superbrights either. ......i used a 3mm red for the rate led...
and a 5mm red for the ldr...
and i never had to use resistors on them either.(though that is the general rule on them)..
back later. rob.

edit: right ive got it ok guys...


i used a normal 555 and yes it ticked...even with a 100uf across + -
i just tried a cmos 555 and no ticking at all...and without the 100 + - too...what a difference..!yay!. :icon_mrgreen:
very very quiet...the rate 3mm led is very dimmed though...but all sounds ok..

btw the pot goes to pins 6 and 7....not pin 1 as in the schematic ok...
i remember taylor saying about the cmos chip being better early in this thread.....thanks taylor you was right...no ticking here..
i only get the slightest of ticks but my level on fader and gain on mixer has to be full on...which would never be used...
i think any noise you may get would be the ldr on and off...but only if the level is ridiculously high and unusable...

so use a cmos 555........sorted......

heres a soundclip ok of the cmos 555..i'll play a chord and let it ring..
this is with the fader full on on my mixer..then i turn the trim gain up full too...so you can hear it ok...
but you would never use this level setting...
watch ya speakers ........

hope this helps guys...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremclicktest1sorted.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremclicktest1sorted.mp3)

ok what do you think ...im glad i revisited this as i want to make the trem/wah/trem wah out of it...

cmos rules!

i'll edit the vero and the schematic and post ok...for the definitive final project ok...

here ya go..

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytremv1.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremwithdepth1.jpg)

 :icon_cool:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 10:29:26 AM
Thanks Rob!  ;D It shouldn't take me long to sort my input section now that I have the timer going. I like a 22uf cap instead of 47uf. It lowers the maximum length of the wobble but has a much better sweep than the 47uf. The super bright seems to be working fine and i'm only using it as a rate LED, since I had some sitting around. I'm keeping my grounds separate and going to try a 220uf cap to eliminate ticking. Should be ok...  ::)

... Your v2 schemo still has the resistor in the wrong place...  :-[ *runs away*
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 11:12:27 AM
::)

... Your v2 schemo still has the resistor in the wrong place...  :-[ *runs away*

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
im not using the depth mod anyway....so sod it......i like the chop which isnt too harsh for me...and it keeps it simple...like me!.. :icon_wink:

im having a beer now... :icon_cool:

rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 11:42:13 AM
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 11:57:37 AM
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?

hi manny, yep the cmos does the trick...
but i had this running originally on a bog standard 555..it just ticked...
lug 2 to pin 6 and lug 3 to 7...i have it working this way in front of me as i type...
im using a 10k pot just coz i had it out..and seems ok too..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 12:06:45 PM
I got mine sorted and working now. I'm having a bit of ticking even with the 220uf. I might just rebuild/rework with a CMOS 555.

I'm also getting a pop sound every time the LDR clicks back on. There's a bit of extra noise in there but I think its because I just have the circuit laying out on my carpet with extra long leads on all the pots, jacks, etc.

The ticking I can take care of. Any ideas on the pop?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 12:17:23 PM
Hey Rob,

I'm having a similar issue with not being able to get my 555 to run in astable mode.
Its an NE555 however, may need to try the CMOS one.  ???

@MetalUpYerEye, you mention the speed pot lugs being incorrect in the diagram, and that lug 1 should go to pin 7. Can you explain this a bit further?

hi manny, yep the cmos does the trick...
but i had this running originally on a bog standard 555..it just ticked...
lug 2 to pin 6 and lug 3 to 7...i have it working this way in front of me as i type...
im using a 10k pot just coz i had it out..and seems ok too..

Cheers Rob,
I'll knock it up on BB quickly and see if it works this way.  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 12:27:53 PM
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 17, 2010, 12:33:28 PM
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............

yeah, this was my result with the radio shack 555. It got hot enough to burn my finger sore for a copule of hours. It did work though, mostly.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 12:44:37 PM
just as a note,

i just tried 4 different 555's..and they all behaved slightly differently..

2 of the standard 555' got really f ****g hot....burn ya fingers stuff...so dont use em..(especially on carpets lol)...
i remember someone else saying that they got hot.. ..maybe the standard 555 need lower voltage..i dunno..i'll read the sheet on em i guess ha ha..

but both the cmos 555's are good as gold...but they do vary in the speed.slightly....i guess theres some kind of tolerance in em...
but no heat.....

hmmm...............

yeah, this was my result with the radio shack 555. It got hot enough to burn my finger sore for a copule of hours. It did work though, mostly.

yeah mad eh... i just looked at the data sheets for the 555 and the cmos....they can take up to 15-18v..so i dont really see how them ones get hot on 9v..
weird..have to read up on em a bit i think...always a good idea...
the 555 will run at 1.5v apparently ...so maybe they need a regulator????...just thinking aloud...
but in the end the cmos is fine...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 12:54:37 PM
Hi Guys,

I just breadboarded this following the vero layout rather than the schem.
I'm using the NE555 (pound shop at bitsbox for those in the UK) and previously it was either hot enough to fry eggs on or would bust any LEDs I used.

I stuck a 1.1k resistor in series with the leds and it's all working fine now.
I've not got the LDR running as I just wanted to get the LEDs working. I'll give it a go soon and post results though.

I'm over the moon to finally have this working after so much head scratching. I hope this helps others!  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 17, 2010, 01:19:23 PM
Hi Guys,

I just breadboarded this following the vero layout rather than the schem.
I'm using the NE555 (pound shop at bitsbox for those in the UK) and previously it was either hot enough to fry eggs on or would bust any LEDs I used.

I stuck a 1.1k resistor in series with the leds and it's all working fine now.
I've not got the LDR running as I just wanted to get the LEDs working. I'll give it a go soon and post results though.

I'm over the moon to finally have this working after so much head scratching. I hope this helps others!  ;D


nice one manny its nice to hear a result....yeah bits box is brilliant...it looks like its got to be cmos 555's in the end..
its funny on my first posts on this project page 1, i was using a standard 555, i just must not have noticed i could cook eggs on it..
while it was on my board....oh well i know how to make a very small hob..ha ha...

yep post results arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, we have to hear it....finally... :icon_mrgreen:

as a note: ive tried the superbrights on this cmos...loads of em...but the rate led has to be standard red.3 or..5m even...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 17, 2010, 02:08:07 PM
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytremv1.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremwithdepth1.jpg)

 :icon_cool:

???

The different positions of the 470r resistor between pin 7 and 8 is a)intentional or b)just plain wrong in one of the schematics?

 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 02:28:38 PM
Its correct in the v1 schematic, wrong in the v2.

Thats what had me and a few other guys tearing our hair out for the past couple days. They must have built it from the schematic too.

Did you guys discuss the idea of putting a 5k resistor in parallel with the LDR to get whatever LDR one might have down close to 5k?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 02:46:40 PM
Here's a link to a soundclip of my working NE555 version.

http://178.79.134.49/files/17_11_2010 19_27.mp3 (http://178.79.134.49/files/17_11_2010 19_27.mp3)

Excuse the phone recording (could't be bothered getting all the cables out for logic  :icon_lol:) and the bad playing.

I seem to get a smooth trem sound rather than the truncated one you got Rob.
Must be the LED/LDR combo I'm using.

The slight buzz is because this is on BB sat right in front of the amp.
 :D

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 03:14:00 PM
For those who are interested, here is the modified schem for NE-555.

I can confirm that it does not get hot and as long as the signal ground is separate to the circuit ground there is no click.
The 1.1K resistors may need to be adjusted slightly for your chosen LEDs.

I've omitted the LDR/in-out section, it's exactly the same as Rob's previous schematics.

Also, I forgot to label the resistor at pin 8, it's a 470r as in the original.

(http://178.79.134.49/files/tt-ne555.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 03:58:31 PM
You're missing the depth pot. In the schematics posted by deadastronaut it is in the signal portion of the circuit controlling the LDR, but in the vero layouts it is actually connected to the output and to the LED that points at the LDR.

I have mine hooked up to the LDR and it doesn't do much. Also i'm getting a popping noise every time the LDR turns on, much like the sound of turning an amp on without anything plugged into it. I'm going to try moving it over to the LED like in the vero layout, which seems like the way everyone else has done theirs. At least I haven't heard anyone else complaining about theirs making any pop sounds...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 04:13:48 PM
You're missing the depth pot. In the schematics posted by deadastronaut it is in the signal portion of the circuit controlling the LDR, but in the vero layouts it is actually connected to the output and to the LED that points at the LDR.

I have mine hooked up to the LDR and it doesn't do much. Also i'm getting a popping noise every time the LDR turns on, much like the sound of turning an amp on without anything plugged into it. I'm going to try moving it over to the LED like in the vero layout, which seems like the way everyone else has done theirs. At least I haven't heard anyone else complaining about theirs making any pop sounds...

I've not added the depth pot yet. I briefly tried it on the signal portion as displayed in the v2 Schem but it didn't seem to do anything.
I'm going to give it a go in the position from the vero too, although I'm pretty happy with the depth as standard.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 17, 2010, 05:25:06 PM

(http://178.79.134.49/files/tt-ne555.jpg)


I don't think you meant to connect the 555 output directly to ground.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 17, 2010, 05:30:39 PM
I don't think you meant to connect the 555 output directly to ground.

Oh, smite one's brow, I thought it looked wierd   :-\
The ground connection after the to the very left of the schematic (above the LEDs) should of course be omitted.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 17, 2010, 08:13:35 PM
How do you make schematic diagrams like the spiffy one that deadastronaut posted?

I might have a go at drawing a schemo for this thing on a 556, since its a bit different.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: p_wats on November 17, 2010, 09:42:30 PM
Bah. I've now breadboarded both schematics from scratch and the breadboard example, but still tons of ticking---even with a CMOS 555. I'm at a loss.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 18, 2010, 01:03:43 AM
I'm going to try using a resistor to lower the Vcc to see if it helps with ticking.  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 18, 2010, 04:00:41 AM
How do you make schematic diagrams like the spiffy one that deadastronaut posted?

I might have a go at drawing a schemo for this thing on a 556, since its a bit different.

Try diy layout creator. It's free and can do vero and perf too.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 18, 2010, 11:07:12 AM
nice on manny, glad you got it working...yay!...

having a few problems with my drop box account, thats why my pics have disappeared...bloody computers..arghhh...


yep diylaout creator, i use both version, version 2 for spiffy schemo's though... :)


for those that are curious, my voltage out of the cmos 555 is 1.8v...thats why i had to use standard leds..(with no resistors)..
superbrights will not work ok...
i have it running nice on reds or yellows...and just to be ridiculous i rigged up 7 leds and it all works fine..
will not do supers though!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 18, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
I haven't tried lowering the source voltage to reduce ticking yet but i'm wondering if the placement of the signal section in relation to the LED or IC has anything to do with it. My LED and LDR face each other about 1/4" away, directly above my IC and I still get a bit of ticking with signal and power grounds separated.

I thought of this last night when I was messing around with mine. In wiggling things around I shorted my red LED to 9v and burned it. So I grabbed my rate LED which has about 6" of tail on it and brought it over to point it at the LDR. When it was away from the board the ticking was much less, but as soon as I got it close the volume of the ticking increased dramatically.

I think i'm going to just rebuild with a CMOS 555 though. I'm going to try to keep signal and power as far away from each other as possible, maybe even separating them inside the enclosure by a piece of metal (with a hole for the LED to shine through). The 556 worked for me to get everything sorted but its a useless to me unless it can be quieted.

I'm still experiencing some sort of pop sound when my LED goes completely off. Not sure what its all about, but might need to do a small cap from input + to ground to quiet it.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 21, 2010, 07:57:33 PM
I rebuilt my circuit with the CMOS 555 and i'm still getting ticking. I don't think its from the IC, but rather from the input section. It sounds like the pop you get from a crappy footswitch, only its every time the LED comes on.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 21, 2010, 08:49:37 PM
I rebuilt my circuit with the CMOS 555 and i'm still getting ticking. I don't think its from the IC, but rather from the input section. It sounds like the pop you get from a crappy footswitch, only its every time the LED comes on.

Any ideas?
Did you keep your grounds separated?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 21, 2010, 08:51:43 PM
Yes and i've tried a 220uf cap from 9v+ to ground as well. Also tried it from signal + to signal ground and no dice.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 22, 2010, 02:42:52 AM
Here's a little more info on my rebuild, in case it helps...

I used a LMC555 CMOS IC. It's wired up with a 50k pot for speed with a 100 ohm resistor in series to stop the LED's from going solid with the speed knob at full bore. I used a typical red LED aimed at my LDR and a regular blue LED for my rate/indicator. I had to put a 47r resistor on the red LED to stop it from drawing too much current and turning the blue LED off. I'm using a 9v battery that is getting a bit long in the tooth and reads 8.6-8.7v. I used a 22uf cap instead of 47uf because it evens out the sweep of the speed pot a bit more to my liking. My LDR reads 2k ohms in typical daylight and 90-110k ohms when covered with my hand (pretty much complete darkness). I used separate grounds and the circuit is very quiet except for the popping. It pops when the LED's turn on. I've tried taking out one or the other LED as well as using resistors on them and its not helping. I also tried a 220uf cap from 9v+ to power ground as well as input+ to signal ground with no results.

I've scoured the 12 pages of this thread as well as the FAQ's and debugging pages on this site. I've also looked at datasheets for the 555/556 and CMOS 555 with no luck. And of course i've exhausted all the ideas I have on how to stop it...

Hate to cry for help again but I have a bunch of time in this circuit already and its almost perfect but that sound makes it unbearable to use...  :'(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 22, 2010, 04:16:36 AM
Josh I use a regular NE555 and get no ticking whatsoever, wired as per my crude drawing above (note: the ground connection after the LEDs is incorrect and should be ommited).

After reading your posts I was messing around trying to get mine to tick. One interesting thing that I noted is that mine ticks if I put my battery close to my LED/LDR combo, if I move it away by a couple of inches the ticking stops completely. I'm afraid I lack the electrical know-how to explain this. Hopefully someone can explain why this may be happening?

Also, if i connect my signal and power grounds mine ticks like crazy so make sure that they're separate.

Manny  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 22, 2010, 12:45:04 PM
Hey Manny,
When I built the pedal I went so far as to build the timer circuit and the signal section on two different boards to make sure that the grounds were as separate as possible. I also tried to separate everything as best I could, with the timer circuit as far away from my LED/LDR as possible. I tried moving the battery out of the box, moving it all around and covering it with my hand. Covering it seems to help a tiny bit but the difference is very slight.

I built the circuit based on the schemo and vero layout from this thread, which is pretty much what you posted. The sound is possibly acceptable at slower speeds, but when turned up faster it sounds like a farting sound... Really not gonna impress the girls at gigs...  :-\
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 22, 2010, 03:14:16 PM
what kind of LED are you using? If it's a superbright, it seems I remember earlier in the thread that you have to use a regualr diffused LED for both the LDR portion and the indicator. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 22, 2010, 04:07:28 PM
what kind of LED are you using? If it's a superbright, it seems I remember earlier in the thread that you have to use a regualr diffused LED for both the LDR portion and the indicator. I could be wrong though.

It doesn't seem to matter in my breadboarded circuit. I've tried lots of different LED sizes and brightnesses and none of them make my NE555 tick.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 22, 2010, 04:10:59 PM
The LED facing the LDR is a regular 5mm red LED from radio shack. The rate/indicator LED is a blue LED, likely a superbright though i'm not sure exactly.

I've also tried a regular yellow LED as the rate/indicator along with the red for the LDR and it didn't make a difference. To make sure it wasn't my rate LED I tried removing the rate LED completely and I still get the clicking/popping noise. I haven't tried any other LED's in the place of the red one facing the LDR but before it was boxed up I accidently burned out the red one and aimed the blue one at the LDR for kicks and it worked the same as the red.

I have a half-built EA Tremolo board thats been sitting in my toolbox for 2 years, I may just give up on this and finish the EA board... Since i've already drilled the enclosure for this project...  :-\
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 22, 2010, 05:03:14 PM
@josh. shame to see your not getting good results with this...i just dont know why you wouldnt.......other people seem to be ok with it..

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 22, 2010, 05:08:09 PM
I'm really pretty bummed about it. The idea behind the circuit is really quite brilliant. If I could stop it from popping then I wouldn't even consider the EA, but since I have the jacks, switch, drilled out enclosure, etc. already from this project I might as well.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 22, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
I'm really pretty bummed about it. The idea behind the circuit is really quite brilliant. If I could stop it from popping then I wouldn't even consider the EA, but since I have the jacks, switch, drilled out enclosure, etc. already from this project I might as well.

Not sure if you've already said so, but have you tried different ldr's? I guess you could sub the ldr with a piece of wire or a resistor, just to see what happens.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 22, 2010, 05:49:20 PM

Not sure if you've already said so, but have you tried different ldr's? I guess you could sub the ldr with a piece of wire or a resistor, just to see what happens.

I just tried removing the LDR completely and i'm getting the same tick. So I guess it must be the 555 rather than a pop from the signal cutting in and out.

Just looked at my EA trem board and i'm only missing 4 or 5 caps for the board to be fully populated. Probably going to go that route unless someone else has another idea for my ticking...

Would certainly like to stick with this one though, being that its already built and housed... Easier to take this apart and put back together than to rework the box for another circuit, although the EA only has 1 board and no LED/LDR combo to contend with.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 23, 2010, 04:30:31 AM
Josh, just a thought. Not sure if you've mentioned already but are you using a DC jack on this one?
If it has a metal sleeve then your signal will be connected to 0V when in the box which would make it tick.

Edit: Also, are you using the LDR inline or bleed to ground?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 23, 2010, 12:12:13 PM
I'm not using a DC jack, just a 9v battery with snap.

I'm using the LDR the way its posted in this drawing... With the depth pot there too.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg

I think thats bleed to ground, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure that the depth pot is really doing anything for me as I can't really hear a difference when it is full on or full off. I haven't tried with the LDR in-line...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 23, 2010, 12:26:24 PM
I'm not using a DC jack, just a 9v battery with snap.

I'm using the LDR the way its posted in this drawing... With the depth pot there too.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.jpg

I think thats bleed to ground, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure that the depth pot is really doing anything for me as I can't really hear a difference when it is full on or full off. I haven't tried with the LDR in-line...

hi josh, i didnt bother with the depth in the end..i prefer it without it.

have you tried it like this.

with your in going to one leg of the ldr..
and the out to the other leg of the ldr.....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 23, 2010, 10:49:03 PM
I just tried it with the LDR in-line with the input/output. It sounds much cleaner and the ticking isn't as apparent at high speeds, but its still right there in your face.  I also sorted out my depth pot by moving it in-line with the LED, so at least that works properly now... I shortened the input/output leads hoping it would help but alas, it ticks on.

So now the signal ground comes in the input and goes right out the output, so there's no way its connected to the power ground.

I'm out of ideas here... again. At least I have a bit of time to think on it - Now I have to rework my switching setup to switch the LDR in/out of my signal path, as well as my 0v from the battery for on/off. You don't suppose that my tick has something to do with me switching the negative battery lead directly do you?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: clydeshere on November 24, 2010, 09:59:10 AM
Hey guys just thought I would add this.
When I built this I was getting a tick with battery and with my power supply then I got a Voodoo labs and the ticking completely went away. So just so you know I think the power supply has something to do with it.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 11:48:38 AM
I suppose its possible but I don't see how. I've only ever used a 9v battery and batteries are supposed to be the cleanest source you can get, right?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 24, 2010, 12:23:51 PM
I suppose its possible but I don't see how. I've only ever used a 9v battery and batteries are supposed to be the cleanest source you can get, right?

Yep, a regulated power supply certainly won't fix your issue.
I've done more fiddling around on mine, when I have the LDR pulling to ground mine ticks too, but inline (the way you now have it) I get no tick whatsoever.
Does the negative lead of your battery snap go straight back onto the board? Not to the enclosure/socket ring?

Manny  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 01:15:03 PM
The negative of the battery snap goes to the footswitch and then to the board. The signal ground goes straight from input to output with no other wires attached...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 24, 2010, 01:24:22 PM
@metal why is your battery ground not on the pcb first?...hmmm...

edit: updated the fader to have fading rate too..

and changed a few values...

been tinkering again...for all you guys that like a triangle wave instead...less choppy etc..
heres a dimming led circuit...works on superbrights only ok...but dims really well...
and using a standard 555...
you can still have rate led but put a 470r on it ..

2n3904....npn...

here ya go, havent had time to attach the ldr yet and try it...just thought id post this now..

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ledfader2.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 02:58:49 PM
I have the negative battery lead going to the footswitch first for bypass. Since I had the in/out tied together for the LDR bleed to ground, all I had to do is switch the 555 on or off for bypass. I admit that I haven't tried the circuit without the switch in it, but again, I don't see how it would make a difference.

I'm thinking it might be the way I have it laid out in the enclosure. The thing that has me vexed is that the signal section and the timer section aren't connected to each other at all. Its basically two different circuits - the 555 circuit  with both LEDs and the signal circuit with the LDR, connected only by the light coming out of the LED...

... And now for a gut shot...
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/metalupyereye/1124101146a.jpg)

Not the most beautiful thing in the world, but likely not the worst you've ever seen either. The PCB at the top, the LED and the LDR are hot-glued in, but not electrically connected to the enclosure. As you can see the input comes in and hits the LDR then goes straight to the output jack. (brown to the LDR then white from LDR to output jack) The signal ground goes straight from jack to jack. (green wire across the jacks) The pot on the right (from this view) is the speed pot and the depth is on the left. I added a couple small resistors (47r) in series with the pots to slow the maximum speed (so the LED will not go solid with the speed at '10') and so the red LED draws a bit less current, allowing me to use a blue LED for a rate/indicator.

I may just take it all out of the enclosure to see if I can get the ticking to stop by separating both circuits by a large area (think 6-8 inches or even a foot). Even so, if that stops the ticking, I can't put it in a reasonable sized enclosure with that much space in between them...  :(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 24, 2010, 03:30:23 PM
@josh.
yeah its not the worst... :icon_wink:

1:you should scrap that paint off where your jacks are trying to make ground contact with the inside of the enclosure..
never paint inside the box...

2: put your ldr and led butted up tight together and wrap in heatshrink..(or some kind of black tube) so you can
work on it with the back cover off...light is the enemy...and you want as much light hitting the ldr ok.

i cant see the top of your pcb, did you build it as perrow's design?.and switching?
or did you just do it of the schematics?..and if so which one? what page?..this will help us know what your problem may be.
as it has been changed over the course of this thread..inevitably modded..etc...

i'll have a think.. rob.


btw that pcb is very close to the box too....is it touching anything.?

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 04:12:09 PM
I used a combination of the schematic and vero layout you posted on page 11 as well as the knowledge i've gained about the 555 over the past week or so i've been getting beat on by this thing.

It's a pretty simple circuit. From memory; 9v to pin 8, 470r from pin 7 to 8, 50k pot from pin 7 to 6, 22uf (47 in yours) from pin 6 to ground and a jumper from pin 2 to pin 6. Pin 1 to power ground, pin 3 to LED +'s and pins 4 and 5 open. 1k pot in series with the LED for depth, cathodes of the LED's to power ground and negative battery lead to power ground. LDR in series with input signal.

I didn't use any of Perrows switching options as I don't care about switching from inline to bleed. Either one is fine with me and at the moment inline seems to be a lot quieter so thats what i'll stay with. I originally had just the negative lead of the battery switched to bypass it (with in/out tied together before the LDR) and now that its in-line I was going to add switching for the signal path on the other poles of my dpdt; one position will be through the LDR (on) and the other position will go straight to the output jack (off).

I've pulled the PCB off the enclosure several times and re-glued it. It was also tested with it detached and it still ticked...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 24, 2010, 05:02:11 PM
I don't know if this circuit is more prone to this or not, but a lot of LFO circuits are sensitive to lead dress and wire length when it comes to ticking. While those flying leads all over the place won't normally matter in 90% of the circuits, LFO circuits are bitches.

Also, there could be crosstalk on your switch. General rule of thumb: never add the enclosure or switch until you have the circuit nailed down.

@deadastronaut: I rarely use batteries, but when I do I never solder the battery ground straight to the board. I solder it to the ring tip of a stereo input jack so that the battery is disengaged when the input cable is  unplugged.

However, given that this circuit is apparently REALLY sensitive to ground and current issues, i'm not sure how i'd handle a battery.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 08:10:14 PM
@barcode - I was thinking the same thing, which is why I shortened my signal section leads as much as possible without getting to the point of being ridiculous. I also agree about the switch, although my input section has never been part of the switching in this project. I've always just switched the negative battery lead, so cross-talk in the switch is kind of out of the question too.

At this point I see one of two things possibly happening; either the signal section is picking up DC current when the LED's light up, or i've connected the signal and power grounds somehow that i've missed. Like I said; the two circuits are completely separate and I did test it before putting it in the enclosure and it still ticked so its highly unlikely that i've connected the two grounds through the enclosure.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: soapamp on November 24, 2010, 08:26:53 PM
Josh... refer to your picture of enclosure wiring, did you solve the ticking problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 24, 2010, 08:45:49 PM
@soapamp - I just looked over the picture again and I don't see anything... Did I miss something that is blatantly obvious to you?  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 25, 2010, 12:01:48 PM
Barcode raises a good point above with possible crosstalk on the switch.
Mine's still on breadboard but I have a couple of switches wired in as follows:

dpdt (disconnects LDR for true bypass)
spdt (disconnects battery from board)

I've not tried both things on one switch yet but that may well be where your problem lies.
I think it may be time to do some snip snip and cut the switch out to test.  :-[
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 25, 2010, 12:49:34 PM
@josh.
when i used a superbright blue it was noisey as hell...i know they look good, i love a bright led too
but it can be a right noisey bugger...even on breadboard....swap it out for a standard red one..
i had the same thing trying to use a colour changing led on a pedal....but i could hear the  colours changing..very pretty, but damn nasty
and unusable.....




Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 26, 2010, 01:06:37 AM
@Manny - I agree that there could be cross-talk in the switch, but that can't be whats causing it. Since I switched my LDR to in-line I haven't had anything but the negative battery lead on my footswitch and thats like 3 days ago...

@dead - I'm going to try a regular yellow to see if it helps. I tried the circuit with just the red LED that faces the LDR and without a rate LED at all and still got ticking. I took the signal section out of the pedal today and played around with moving it around in relation to the timer circuit. Seems like I get the most ticking when my signal ground and power ground wires are close to each other - within 3 inches or so I get ticking. I also noticed that the ticking is reduced to almost nothing (usable levels) when I touch the battery with my bare hand, even with the pedal setup the way it is.

I'm probably going to nix this circuit and finish my EA to sate my hunger and call my tremolo project done, though I plan on keeping this circuit going until I straighten it out. I was thinking shielded wire for the signal section, reworking all the wiring in the box, swapping the blue LED for a regular red or yellow and probably socketing my LDR so I can try a few more out to see if that helps. Of course, until I can get parts for the EA tremolo (next Monday) its still open season on this circuit so any more suggestions are more than welcome.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 26, 2010, 09:06:17 AM
hi all..heres an interesting thread to do with ticking problems..

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76910.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76910.0)


im off down the pub... :P
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 27, 2010, 07:17:00 AM
Josh, looking at your comment about having wires close together, I twisted my signal wires around the -V and +V wires and mine started noticeably ticking.
I tried it again with thick shielded wire for the signal and the ticking went away.

I think it's definitely a good one to try.  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 27, 2010, 02:01:32 PM
'Kay. Here's my status...

I swapped my super-bright rate LED for a regular yellow LED. A little less ticking but still very much there.
So I shielded my input/output wires and cleaned up a bit inside the enclosure. Significantly less ticking, but still audible.
So I said the hell with it and soldered the battery snip onto a piece of shielded wire too as well as shielding the other side of the ground heading from the switch back to the board...

NO MORE TICKING.

But now i'm faced with another tiny issue. Bypass. Right now for an off mode all I have is the negative battery lead switched which is great until you want bypass, then you get no signal because the LDR is in-line. So how can I switch my negative battery lead for on/off and bypass my LDR on the same switch without letting a bunch of noise back in...  ???

My footswitch is dpdt so it has enough terminals...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 27, 2010, 03:06:01 PM
I'm confused, why switch the battery snap? Why not just wire it up like a normal bypass?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 27, 2010, 03:18:45 PM
Because I have to keep my power and signal grounds separate, otherwise it ticks like a mother.

If I switch the circuit by connecting it to the input jack like a normal stomp, then my grounds will be connected.

So i'm going to see if I can get it to work OK with the LDR bypassed on the switch, although that will put it right next to the switched battery lead...

I'm starting to feel like this is kind of in vain... I'm really planning on swapping this out in favor of the EA trem...  :icon_confused:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 27, 2010, 07:00:58 PM
If you've got rid of the ticking, maybe you could switch back to bleed instead of inline.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 27, 2010, 08:50:38 PM
Yeah I probably could... I think i'm gonna try to stick with inline and just switch it along with the battery lead. I was also considering switching the positive lead rather than the ground, as I believe the noise was coming from the power ground though it may have been both ground and 9v...

Which is choppier: inline or bleed?

I couldn't seem to get the bleed (depth) pot to do anything for me when I had it wired that way...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on November 28, 2010, 09:35:29 AM
Which is choppier: inline or bleed?

Having the LDR inline sounds much choppier in my setup, with bleed to ground it has a more subtle "swell" type trem.
I'm glad you've finally managed to get the ticking to stop.  :D

I'm currently messing with a 3pdt switch and some shielded wire to get to the bottom of the switching issue as I'm planning on boxing this up over the next week or so too.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 28, 2010, 07:55:05 PM
Well I rewired it for bleed to ground... Kept the leads short... No ticking from the 555 but my pop sound is back.

Sounds like its popping because i'm connecting my signal + with my signal ground. Pops every time the LED turns on... I guess i'll have to try wiring it inline again but add the switch for bypass and hope I don't pick up ticking with the grounds so close together...

Gonna try to get parts for my EA trem some time this week... I'm only missing 3 caps and it'll be up and running. Then i'll find a friend who wants a cheap trem pedal and give the Tiny to him for the price of an enclosure, input/output jacks and a footswitch. As long as it goes far, far away from me.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on November 29, 2010, 06:27:46 AM
Hi guys, just a simple question for the ones that have built this effect: Does it reduces the volume level too much? I mean, the sound clip was wonderfull, I really prefer this tiny tremolo vs a comercial one I've tried last friday at a shop but does it make a big reduction on the volume level when it is engaged? If so, a simple 2N5088 boost will be enough to overcome that?
PS: The unit I tested friday made a incredible high volume drop when engaged!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 29, 2010, 07:14:44 AM
Hi guys, just a simple question for the ones that have built this effect: Does it reduces the volume level too much? I mean, the sound clip was wonderfull, I really prefer this tiny tremolo vs a comercial one I've tried last friday at a shop but does it make a big reduction on the volume level when it is engaged? If so, a simple 2N5088 boost will be enough to overcome that?
PS: The unit I tested friday made a incredible high volume drop when engaged!

hi,glad you like it , better than commercial ones... :icon_eek:
what one did you try in the shop out of curiosity?

no it wont reduce any volume as the in an out are always joined...no problems there ok. enjoy.... :icon_mrgreen:
a few people (who shall remain nameless)  :icon_wink:
have had a few issues with ticking though...read the whole thread to see how we got round these problems...good luck. rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on November 29, 2010, 10:52:04 AM
I've tried the Danelectro Tremolo. True By-pass and nice but I prefer your sound clip. The Danelectro has depth and chop (hard/soft) controls plus, of course, the rate/speed control. I prefered the more chopy one and I've found pointless to play with the depth pot as things got "muddy" appart from a very limited range. At some speeds the cut was just too strong not making a nice effect. And when we desengaged the effect, the volume went up (a lot!). The clip I've heard from yours makes the effect I wanted. I've already read about the ticking issues but I haven't fully uderstood how can we manage to have different grounds when we feed the two circuits from the same power source: no matter what you do, they'll always touch each other at the baterie or psu neg terminal.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 29, 2010, 01:37:10 PM
but I haven't fully uderstood how can we manage to have different grounds when we feed the two circuits from the same power source: no matter what you do, they'll always touch each other at the baterie or psu neg terminal.

Too true.

Would I be right in thinking this is the latest schematic....

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9358/tinytrem2.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/tinytrem2.jpg/)

Just so as to familairize myself (it's getting to be a long thread!).... there are two LEDs, but only one LDR? (is this just for oomph?)

I think what you might have going on here with the clicking is a combination of two things .....not sure if anyone has ever used a manual kill switch - but on clean settings you get a clicking going on with that. It's because of the rude interuption to the AC signal ..,.to all intents & purposes it's like switching a varying DC level on and off - the solution is a zero cross detect cicuit & only shunt the AC signal at a signal zero crossing point. Not sure how aggressive the signal is shunted to ground (it'll certainly be more polite than a brutish kill switch), but it may well be a similar problem The other aspect is obviously the current surge through the rate LED (no limit resistor?)... the two souces of click-ettes combined will possibly reinforce one another here to give a  cumulative click.

Just one other point - what value are most using for the depth pot? If the 'signal in# is an unbuffered high impedance pickup, there'll be some loading going on if the value is too low.


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on November 29, 2010, 02:12:39 PM
I've tried the Danelectro Tremolo. True By-pass and nice but I prefer your sound clip. The Danelectro has depth and chop (hard/soft) controls plus, of course, the rate/speed control. I prefered the more chopy one and I've found pointless to play with the depth pot as things got "muddy" appart from a very limited range. At some speeds the cut was just too strong not making a nice effect. And when we desengaged the effect, the volume went up (a lot!). The clip I've heard from yours makes the effect I wanted. I've already read about the ticking issues but I haven't fully uderstood how can we manage to have different grounds when we feed the two circuits from the same power source: no matter what you do, they'll always touch each other at the baterie or psu neg terminal.

No no no no.

Why is no one understanding this?

the in/out jacks do not have to be connected to the battery or power psu terminals. they need only be connected to each other, with the ground terminating in the amp. The jack grounds are connected to each other via the aluminum enclosure, and pass right on through to be grounded down the line. This way, the power ground being utilized for the circuit doesn't ever touch the signal.

Didn't we just have a thread about this?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 29, 2010, 02:46:43 PM
Aaah...ok, so now I see the angle - it's the way the schem is drawn with just the one Gnd symbol.

The gnd symbol to the left of the word 'depth' should have some representation of being specific to signal ground (or chassis in your example of using the shield jack gnd connection from the amp)

The other ground symbols should be differentiated as 'circuit ground'/power ground....or even simply 0V - and never the two should meet! (circuit board should not touch the chassis at all etc)

Yes, then the circuit is then totally optically isolated & should have no click whatsoever. Could it be therefore that the clicking is due to extreme shunting (ie an aggressive control signal) AT a non-zero crossing point? (as outlined in my kill switch example).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 29, 2010, 03:45:22 PM
Sounds like its popping because i'm connecting my signal + with my signal ground. Pops every time the LED turns on...

I don't really know if this could be the issue, but have you considered the possibility that your LDR gets way to much light? If the resistance suddenly goes to near zero you are essentialy connecting your signal+ to your signal ground. Slide your sunglasses between the led and the LDR and see what happens, if you haven't rewired it yet that is, you've rewired this one more than most I guess  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on November 29, 2010, 07:06:06 PM
Sounds like its popping because i'm connecting my signal + with my signal ground. Pops every time the LED turns on...

I don't really know if this could be the issue, but have you considered the possibility that your LDR gets way to much light? If the resistance suddenly goes to near zero you are essentialy connecting your signal+ to your signal ground. Slide your sunglasses between the led and the LDR and see what happens, if you haven't rewired it yet that is, you've rewired this one more than most I guess  :icon_mrgreen:

I had thought of this but i've already tried a resistor in parallel (like a 5k with my LDR to lower the max resistance and it still pops.

I'm pretty spent on this circuit. Never has such a simple design had its foot so far up my ass.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on November 30, 2010, 05:59:42 AM
I've tried the Danelectro Tremolo. True By-pass and nice but I prefer your sound clip. The Danelectro has depth and chop (hard/soft) controls plus, of course, the rate/speed control. I prefered the more chopy one and I've found pointless to play with the depth pot as things got "muddy" appart from a very limited range. At some speeds the cut was just too strong not making a nice effect. And when we desengaged the effect, the volume went up (a lot!). The clip I've heard from yours makes the effect I wanted. I've already read about the ticking issues but I haven't fully uderstood how can we manage to have different grounds when we feed the two circuits from the same power source: no matter what you do, they'll always touch each other at the baterie or psu neg terminal.
No no no no.

Why is no one understanding this?

the in/out jacks do not have to be connected to the battery or power psu terminals. they need only be connected to each other, with the ground terminating in the amp. The jack grounds are connected to each other via the aluminum enclosure, and pass right on through to be grounded down the line. This way, the power ground being utilized for the circuit doesn't ever touch the signal.

Didn't we just have a thread about this?
You're right. I've solved this yesterday at the subway on my way back home but had no opportunity to post it here. In fact it's easy: it's just to put the ldr in series with the signal wire from the in and out jack (and the depth pot if one want to). And then build the pulsing led circuit independently. A DPDT switch will enable true bypass with a led (the rate led).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2010, 06:11:56 AM
anyone good at diagrams?...would be helpful to all in future i'm sure..... 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on November 30, 2010, 06:24:05 AM
I can do it, but i'm not shure when. Today's night if I get lucky. I'll use the last one posted. What program do you prefer: PCB express, Eagle or Easy DIY?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2010, 06:28:24 AM
great .easy diy...thanks, i havent the time at the moment...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2010, 11:27:42 AM
I can do it, but i'm not shure when. Today's night if I get lucky.

If I get lucky tonight, I'll draw no bleeding schematic I'll tell you that much  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2010, 11:41:38 AM
IF... you get lucky.... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2010, 12:59:50 PM
IF... you get lucky.... :icon_mrgreen:

Well, you just see if I draw any schematic.








Of course, I could fake it and just not draw anything  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2010, 01:07:16 PM
no cheating..... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2010, 01:08:28 PM
no cheating..... :icon_wink:

No cheating ???

How would I "get lucky" without cheating  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 01, 2010, 05:37:55 AM
 ;D you must remember that my English is not perfect! After I've post that I tought it sounded funny but didn't remember why...
It seems I got "too lucky" so I've done it this morning (it's a holiday here in Portugal). Can anybody help me to upload it? Or I can send it by e-mail to someone who can upload it
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 01, 2010, 05:49:17 AM
jrm pm'd....

jrm kindly posted this to me..heres his version...i just tweaked the size... :icon_wink:

is the wiring on the depth pot right?..looks a little strange to me...?


(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/jrms.gif)


shouldn't it be wired more like this?..hmmmm...but then it would cut the volume wouldnt it????...

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/altwiring1.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 01, 2010, 11:08:12 AM
In fact, I had doubts about the depth pot as your schem had an odd wiring with the in and out together and the LDR and depth pot in paralel with them.
I've sent you a version with a DPDT switch, but I still don't know how should we wire the depth pot.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on December 01, 2010, 02:59:01 PM
;D you must remember that my English is not perfect!

No worries, neither's mine and I think that most of us let those slip from time to time (even native speakers). I just couldn't let this one slip by unnoticed.

And by the way, I think the depth pot will only work for "bleed" mode. Where you can control the amount bled away. For inline, I think even the dimmed led configuration is just a volume control, as the dark resistance is the higher resistance dimming the led will only lower the volume. But wait (and I've come to this conclusion before  :icon_rolleyes:), what you could do is put the pot parallel with the ldr, that way you can control the dark resistance. You'll probably need a high resistance pot though.

Edit: grammar :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on December 01, 2010, 06:50:23 PM
I tried the depth pot both ways (dimming the LED with inline and bleed to ground on the LDR) and I never heard a really audible difference.

The switching for this has to be done on a DPDT. You can't turn the circuit on and off via the input jack without connecting the grounds and you can't switch the circuit by itself because your LDR is in the dark and won't allow any signal through...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 02, 2010, 08:53:24 AM
Can someone try to wire the depth pot in paralel with the LDR? Try it with the higher resistance pot that you have available. I think it will work that way, making a blend between the clean (through the pot) and the "tremoled" (through the ldr) signal. I just don't have the parts to do it.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: illidan on December 03, 2010, 02:10:55 AM
I can do it, but i'm not shure when. Today's night if I get lucky. I'll use the last one posted. What program do you prefer: PCB express, Eagle or Easy DIY?

i thought eagle is preferable... thanks...
and show it on page 1...

coz,, i've failed to build it... :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 03, 2010, 06:26:29 AM
Eagle is nice for pcb drawing but we already have a pcb for this circuit. Just check around page 3. As this circuit is so small it's cheaper to do it on a small stripboard.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 15, 2010, 11:28:32 AM
I'm preparing an order of missing components so I  need to make somehing clear:

One can't use a superbright 3mm blue led as a rate indicator led at this circuit can we? I think I've read it somewhere along the 15 pages of the thread but I don't remember if that's right and why.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 15, 2010, 03:30:46 PM
I'm preparing an order of missing components so I  need to make somehing clear:

One can't use a superbright 3mm blue led as a rate indicator led at this circuit can we? I think I've read it somewhere along the 15 pages of the thread but I don't remember if that's right and why.

Hi JRM,

I'm using a 3mm superbright for the rate LED on mine. I built it as per my hand drawn effort a few pages back, adjust the resistors as needed.
One thing to note if using that schematic is that there's a rogue ground connection that needs to be omitted, it's the one furthest to the left after the LEDs.

Hope this helps  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 15, 2010, 06:47:46 PM
for those that are curious, my voltage out of the cmos 555 is 1.8v...thats why i had to use standard leds..(with no resistors)..
superbrights will not work ok...
i have it running nice on reds or yellows...and just to be ridiculous i rigged up 7 leds and it all works fine..
will not do supers though!..

Found it! But if Manny is running superbrights, IŽll give it a try. I have both types anyway, it's just about measure the voltage out of the CMOS 555 (I was expecting much higher than 1.8V running out of 9V batterie, after reading the datasheet http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LMC555.pdf and find a 6% loss in the high output voltage, in relation to Vs)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on December 16, 2010, 03:09:19 PM
I was running a 5mm super bright but it made the circuit click like mad. Even after switching to a regular LED with a resistor on it and shielding all the signal leads, etc. I still couldn't really get it to quiet down enough. It sounded nice enough, being that it doesn't color your sound and all, if I could have just rid it of that click then it would have stayed...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: illidan on December 18, 2010, 11:25:19 AM
as my previous posting.. i've failed build this one...
but seemingly i wrong to in IC,,,, I use LM555 not LMC555,,,,  is this same  ???
sorry for bad question, coz i don't know how to read a datasheet schema...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 18, 2010, 11:30:46 AM
as my previous posting.. i've failed build this one...
but seemingly i wrong to in IC,,,, I use LM555 not LMC555,,,,  is this same  ???
sorry for bad question, coz i don't know how to read a datasheet schema...

hi i think they should be ok..i think the different numbers and letters are different manufacturers..i think!!!!.....but in the end i used a cmos555 .

it seems a lot less noisey..clickey...tickey... 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 18, 2010, 11:35:23 AM
After loads of tweaking to try and get the best response from the speed and depth pots I'm finally ready to box mine up.
I think I'm gonna make the LDR switchable too, I've found two that I really like, both have a different response but I can't choose between them. I'll post pics/findings once I'm done.  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 18, 2010, 11:36:31 AM
nice one manny itll be good to see a final analysis and build too....

why switch on the ldr though?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on December 18, 2010, 11:41:56 AM
I think Manny means that he's going to switch between two different LDRs.

See, I was paying attention.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 18, 2010, 11:59:41 AM
ha ha..i wasnt!....i see...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 18, 2010, 06:11:45 PM
I think Manny means that he's going to switch between two different LDRs.

See, I was paying attention.

Yep  :)
I just can't decide between the two so i thought I'd be greedy.
They seem to have nearly identical dark and light resistances. I guess their response speed must be different or something.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 19, 2010, 05:08:11 PM
How did you wired the depth pot? What value did you use?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 20, 2010, 07:56:41 AM
How did you wired the depth pot? What value did you use?

I've been messing around with the depth pot quite a lot, I found that it works best for me with an A5k, it gives a nice full range.
I wired it as follows:

Note: The mess in the bottom left is how I did the "signal section", i.e. LDR to signal ground. I think it sounds better but you could put in a switch and have both that way and inline if you like both.

(http://www.kochgruber.co.uk/stuff/IMG_0162.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 20, 2010, 10:02:19 AM
Sorry Manny but I can't understand how that can work, as you have conected the Hot and Ground of the signal path with the LDR. So, when the LDR resistance is higher than 0 (ok, let's say 5 Ohm, making a current divider with the wire 0.5 Ohm resistance) You'll have all the signal going directly through the wire and in=out (>99%) and only when LDR is 0 you'll have some signal drain to ground. You probably have written it down wrong, as the LDR should be in series with the in and out hot tips.

Regarding the pot, thanks! You've choosen to vary the depth by changing the LED intensity with a 5k Log Pot.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on December 20, 2010, 10:58:20 AM
I don't understand how it couldn't work. The LDR, as he has it wired, is simply bleeding a variable amount of the signal to ground based on the resistance of the LDR. Pretty simple stuff, this is the way a volume pot works....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 20, 2010, 11:03:29 AM
the ldr is the same way as the vero on page 2...

edit: erm..you lost me on this:....\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/   :-[
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 20, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
I don't understand how it couldn't work. The LDR, as he has it wired, is simply bleeding a variable amount of the signal to ground based on the resistance of the LDR. Pretty simple stuff, this is the way a volume pot works....

Ok, but bleeding current being I bl/I tot = Rwire / (RLDR + Rwire) = .5/(6000+.5)= .008% (LDR On) or I bl/I tot = .5/(100E3+.5) = .0005% (LDR Off). Did I miss something? Probably did.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on December 20, 2010, 12:39:48 PM
I think you are REALLY over-thinking/over-complicating it. As the LDR resistance is lowered, the signal gets bled to ground. as the LDR resistance goes back up, the path to ground for the signal gets blocked from being shunted to ground by the resistance of the LDR, and so it passes.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 20, 2010, 02:23:49 PM
I think you are REALLY over-thinking/over-complicating it. As the LDR resistance is lowered, the signal gets bled to ground. as the LDR resistance goes back up, the path to ground for the signal gets blocked from being shunted to ground by the resistance of the LDR, and so it passes.

Yep, its the reverse of how this works inline, when the light goes on, the sound gets cut. maybe it's the way I drew it that's wierd. Think of it as:

IN -----L----- OUT
           D
           R
           |
        GND

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 21, 2010, 12:12:18 PM
OK, got it. Sorry  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MoKoLoKo on December 22, 2010, 02:42:18 PM
I've build it with a modified version of Renegadrian's layout, to separate grounds and use the rate LED too as bypass LED.

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7523/qtrem.png)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on December 22, 2010, 04:24:18 PM
I've build it with a modified version of Renegadrian's layout, to separate grounds and use the rate LED too as bypass LED.

Good tip for those building this. Use the little rows of pin sockets, snap off 2 lots of 3 and solder them to the pcb/vero under pins 1,2 & 3 and 5, 6 & 7. This way when the IC is slotted in the two unused pins just float there. Easier than trying to cut the spaces beneath the pins on the vero.
 :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on December 22, 2010, 06:33:03 PM
I don't understand how it couldn't work. The LDR, as he has it wired, is simply bleeding a variable amount of the signal to ground based on the resistance of the LDR. Pretty simple stuff, this is the way a volume pot works....

Thats not my take - IMHO, a volume pot works as a potential divider....as it is drawn in the schematic above that LDR is acting as a rheostat - without some form of in line (series) resistance preceding it, it cant/wont work as a potential divider.

Think about it..... if your AC signal coming in is 500mv & the LDR is 1M , then 500mV is dropped across 1M, if the LDR then drops to 10k that same 500mV is still dropped across 10k - so, the signal voltage remains the same at the top of the LDR .....what changes with the LDR changing resistance is the current through the LDR to ground (& might account for why there is so much clicking going on for some?)

If you roll the volume pot off a little on the guitar then that provides the necessary in series resistance for the LDR/rheostat to work as a potential divider.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 29, 2010, 06:08:01 AM
hi guys, just found these low power cmos 555's...

anyone got any ideas if theses would be better?...very low power...pin for pin replacement too...

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/25485/STMICROELECTRONICS/TS555.html (http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/25485/STMICROELECTRONICS/TS555.html)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on December 29, 2010, 09:50:58 AM
I don't understand how it couldn't work. The LDR, as he has it wired, is simply bleeding a variable amount of the signal to ground based on the resistance of the LDR. Pretty simple stuff, this is the way a volume pot works....

Thats not my take - IMHO, a volume pot works as a potential divider....as it is drawn in the schematic above that LDR is acting as a rheostat - without some form of in line (series) resistance preceding it, it cant/wont work as a potential divider.

Think about it..... if your AC signal coming in is 500mv & the LDR is 1M , then 500mV is dropped across 1M, if the LDR then drops to 10k that same 500mV is still dropped across 10k - so, the signal voltage remains the same at the top of the LDR .....what changes with the LDR changing resistance is the current through the LDR to ground (& might account for why there is so much clicking going on for some?)

If you roll the volume pot off a little on the guitar then that provides the necessary in series resistance for the LDR/rheostat to work as a potential divider.

Either way, what he drew does work though, at least as he has reported.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 04, 2011, 05:23:23 AM
any successfully built and boxed ones?...

thought i would have seen a few boxed by now...

ive still been working on my pulsewah, so havent completed the single trem yet!...busy...

todays analysis:

ok ive just breaded this tiny trem yet again ... :icon_rolleyes:, and tried the ldr to signal ground...noisey as hell...because when the led goes off there is no 'signal' ground i guess.

with the ldr to power ground its much much cleaner.....but has a slight thump when ldr/on/off...enough thump not to call it finished and boxed up..

edit:

just put a 100r/220 on the ldr's led to ground...yes!.any thump,seems to have gone...its sounding good...which some are using for depth control.(which i never bothered with but thought i would try)

but i would add this 100r in there anyway (after the depth)so the thump is eliminated anyway..even with a depth pot ...im using cmos555 btw..very clean too.






Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on January 04, 2011, 11:12:36 AM
I'm planning on building and boxing soon. I just got a couple cmos 555's so that I could.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 04, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
I'm planning on building and boxing soon. I just got a couple cmos 555's so that I could.

hi patrick, ,cool,look forward to seeing/hearing it.. been messing around with this a lot today, ive got it running really nice...except!

if i turn the gain right up on my mixer there is a tiny click...not audible at all in normal level situations..but it is there at extreme levels...(just thinking of distortion pedals in front etc)

its just bugging me on how to get rid of it...and finally box this and get it out of my head at last!!!!...

ive set it up with the in/out into one side of ldr..other ldr side to ground..

im using a 5k depth pot with a 100r to ground off the 1 lug...seems really good as a depth control..

apart from this minor problem..can you try yours with the level on ya amp right up...see if its the same!..? cheers . rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MoKoLoKo on January 10, 2011, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: deadastronaut
any successfully built and boxed ones?...

One here!!

Despite the separate ground, I have some ticking, I'm waiting to a CMOS 555 to change it, I hope it fix it.

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4792/dsc00083vd.jpg)

I know, it's REALLY crappy :icon_mrgreen:

And some more soundclips --> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1036831&songID=10032818

There isn't ticking in the recording because I put some noise reduction filter in the clip, put the tick exists :icon_mrgreen:

Another problem is that ticking is not too loud, but it sounds too in bypass! And I don't know why, the stompbox is true bypass, with a 3pdt  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: thomasthebuzzard on January 10, 2011, 01:18:29 PM
sometimes oscillation sneaks in through ground somehow. For stuff like this i will connect the ground of the board to where the led connects to the stomp switch. This shut the power to the whole unit of. I know this is a brutal way to do it but it works effectively. It only works well with some effects though. This one should be fine. Also I know that there is a way to do this better. I just don't know how. You can probably find something on the forum though about how to stop that.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Scruffie on January 10, 2011, 01:19:52 PM
Input Ground True Bypassing is what you want.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: thomasthebuzzard on January 10, 2011, 01:41:10 PM
True that!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 03:29:36 AM
yay!....moko is the first.....you win the prize!...... :icon_mrgreen: :icon_wink:


anyway...i still have this on a tiny breadboard. :icon_rolleyes:

i had to turn the gain right up on my mixer to hear any click which under normal recording circumstances you wouldnt have it nowhere near that level......

i noticed the other day that the ticking goes when i turned the guitar volume down,(try it) so i figured something on the input might help!!!!..and it did!.

i tried a 1M resistor on the input to ground...with a 10nf  to ground also..and yep it removed the tick....a lot lot better!..

like this.......btw i'm using cmos555....

input_________________________
                    /              /
                    \              /
               1m /             /  10nf

give it a try!......it might help you!... :icon_wink: rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 11, 2011, 03:55:37 AM
i tried a 1M resistor on the input to ground...with a 10nf  to ground also..and yep it removed the tick....a lot lot better!..

And I have to ask, inline or bleed? Or both?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 03:59:32 AM
as above ^^^^^^^^

like a pull down resistor plus cap...


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 11, 2011, 06:48:16 AM
I meant the LDR, do you have that inline or bleed?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 07:06:11 AM
oh right....i have my ldr straight to ground...in /out on other side of ldr...with the the 1m/10n to ground...connected to the in/outs...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 11, 2011, 07:35:01 AM
i.e. "parallell" to the ldr if I understand it correctly. I'll see if I can modify the PCB to include this, will have to wait 'til after work (started working yesterday after being unemloyed for the last 6 months :) ).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 07:55:16 AM
congratulations on getting a job...especially nowadays.. :icon_cool:

heres the pdf of it...try it first before you pcb it...ok.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20..pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20..pdf)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 11, 2011, 08:35:08 AM
I keep coming back to this thread as I'm curious about the clicking.

I'm still puzzled as to how this is all working (I'm not doubting it does...I just can't quite wrap my head around why it does!)

Here's the equivalent circuit...

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/69/rsztiny.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/rsztiny.jpg/)

Now becuase the LDR is acting as a rheostat vs a potential divider (like say your guitar volume knob), can the guitar pickups internal DC resisistance be considered the top part of pseudo potential divider (the rheostat being the lower part)....or, since the pickup is the signal 'source'. must it not be brought into play in this respect.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 08:57:12 AM
hi gurner, sorry im not too au fait with rheostats and some terminology...still learning etc...

basically the guitar in and out is connected to one side of the ldr......other side of ldr  to ground....led flashing turns it on/off...thats it!..... :icon_cool:

sorry if this is an obvious answer....but im still a dumbass noob..... :icon_wink:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 11, 2011, 09:03:14 AM
Hi Gurner  :)

I don't have a cap or pot wired to mine, mine is like this:

IN-----------OUT
        |
      LDR
        |
      GND

The way I see it is that while the LDR has low resistance , more current flows to ground causing the signal to be cut. While the LDR has high resistance less current flows to ground allowing the signal to pass through to OUT.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 09:12:31 AM
yep same as.... :)

depth controlled by dimming the led...my depth control is working great...choppy to really subtlle...i think the 220 helped with that..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 11, 2011, 09:17:07 AM

The way I see it is that while the LDR has low resistance , more current flows to ground causing the signal to be cut. While the LDR has high resistance less current flows to ground allowing the signal to pass through to OUT.

Thanks...when we speak of signal - certainly wrt guitars, IMHO we normally mean voltage. But this is acting on the signal current...I guess the circuit works becuase the pickup can't deliver much in the way of current, so as the LDR drops, the pickup baulks and it's output level drops. If the signal source was capable of delivering high amounts of current, then the LDR resistance wouldn't have much effect of the signal voltage level.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 11, 2011, 10:41:05 AM

The way I see it is that while the LDR has low resistance , more current flows to ground causing the signal to be cut. While the LDR has high resistance less current flows to ground allowing the signal to pass through to OUT.

Thanks...when we speak of signal - certainly wrt guitars, IMHO we normally mean voltage. But this is acting on the signal current...I guess the circuit works becuase the pickup can't deliver much in the way of current, so as the LDR drops, the pickup baulks and it's output level drops. If the signal source was capable of delivering high amounts of current, then the LDR resistance wouldn't have much effect of the signal voltage level.

That sounds reasonable to me. After having looked at the schematic again today I see what you mean about the confusing potential divider issue but I think you sum it up pretty well above. I'm guessing that different guitar pickups will alter the way that this sounds, it's hard to measure the exact effect it's having though. Wish I had an oscilloscope.  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 10:55:34 AM
@manny. gurner put me onto this...cheers gurner!.. :icon_wink:

http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 11, 2011, 10:57:57 AM
@manny. gurner put me onto this...cheers gurner!.. :icon_wink:

http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en

Cheers Rob,
That looks great! What are you using as a probe for this?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 11:01:24 AM
@manny. gurner put me onto this...cheers gurner!.. :icon_wink:

http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en

Cheers Rob,
That looks great! What are you using as a probe for this?

to be honest i havent used it much!..but it looks cool.....maybe gurner could tell you!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 11, 2011, 11:29:31 AM
to be honest i havent used it much!..but it looks cool.....maybe gurner could tell you!..

As it goes, I don't use that s/w scope at all - I have a USB Scope, I linked Rob to it because I thought he might have a use for it.

In general, I see a lot of folks on the internet saying "I wish I had a scope".....but most have a PC & a soundcard - just add free software!

There are some limitations (for example, just about all soundcards have a DC blocking cap at their input, so software scopes don't do DC levels (but hey most have that base covered with DVMs anyway!), they've also limited bandwidth  (but hey most on here are dealing with guitars - the top fundamental on that is just 1.4Khz....ok, throw in a few harmonics & it'll be higher - but still, most decent soundcard should still be ok. Certainly for debugging, troubleshooting etc)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 11:33:23 AM
to be honest i havent used it much!..but it looks cool.....maybe gurner could tell you!..

 I linked Rob to it because I thought he might have a use for it.


i will use it when i learn how to.... :icon_mrgreen:
looks good with guitar going through it though..... :icon_wink: cheers gurner.,
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 11, 2011, 03:30:51 PM
Just a thought....this most important part of the tiny tremelo, can be fairly easily replicated with a bog standard linear POT.....to help establish if any of the the clicking comes from shunting the pickup's current signal to ground quickly, or if it's 555 related.

Take a 1M pot, short one of the outer lugs to the centre lug & the the other free lug to ground (you've now got a pseudo LDR...a rheostat) - connect your guitar output to the pot (ie hot to to the two lugs shorted together, guitar ground to your gound lug)...feed onwards to your amp.

Have a play, moving the pot wiper around, fast, slow, pulsey-ish (hehe, I've made a word up) etc. It'd be interesting to hear how the tone changes as the pot gets towards the ground end of its travel (bad I'd imagine!)....and this method allows slo-mo.

i noticed the other day that the ticking goes when i turned the guitar volume down,(try it) so i figured something on the input might help!!!!..and it did!.

That kinda ties in with my line of thought that I touched upon a couple of weeks ago…..

If you roll the volume pot off a little on the guitar then that provides the necessary in series resistance for the LDR/rheostat to work as a potential divider.

Edit: When you back off the volume knob on your guitar, you're also putting extra resistance in series into your circuit  (guitar pickup->Vol pot top lug-> pot's resistance track->Vol pot wiper lug-> Tiny tremolo circuit input)....whereas with your latest mod, you've just placed resistance in parallel with your circuit's input. There will be parallel resistance ...the ratio of series resistance to paralell resistance will depend on the wiper position of your guitar's volume pot. For example a 250k volume pot, half way backed off would be 125k in series with the LDR &  125k in parallel with your circuit's LDR. (assuming a linear pot, which I realise most guitar volume pots are log!)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 11, 2011, 07:28:08 PM
@gurner...ah yes..you did mention this!..(i'll slap myself now)... :icon_redface:

i'll give it a go with the 1M pot (rheostat) experiment ....and listen out for any clicking etc.....

i see what you mean with my latest input mods now!...hmmmm...

i must stress the click is really faint on mine...even at very hi levels...but a click is a click...and annoying as f ... at any level...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 12, 2011, 11:14:14 AM
Gurner that's a great idea, I'll give this a try too.
I'm also starting to think that the ticking isn't 555 related at all since the two circuits are so separate.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 12, 2011, 06:09:54 PM
I have (almost) finished a new pcb with quite a few nice features, have to go to bed now. Will post it as soon as the almost part is gone.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on January 13, 2011, 12:04:30 AM
ZZzzzzzzZ sleep tight :D


How can we add volume on this?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 13, 2011, 07:34:22 AM
ZZzzzzzzZ sleep tight :D


How can we add volume on this?

turn ya guitar up n down.... :icon_mrgreen:


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on January 13, 2011, 09:42:53 AM
lol rob! i just think tremolo dont need a volume heheheheh stupid me
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 13, 2011, 05:20:39 PM
OK everybody, take a deep breath (you're gonna need it ;D )

I've included the latest pop-reducing components and thought I'd better show the off-board components as well.




(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/TinyTremV7.png)

You can of course exclude some components if you're cheap


ps. The first one to show (video and images needed) this circuit with all components (R4, R5 and C2 may be excluded if not needed) working and housed (everything inside) in a 1590A sized enclosure will get a signed copy of the above layout  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 13, 2011, 06:00:00 PM
Nice one Perrow, the layout looks correct to me. I've not got any chems it at the moment to etch one myself though. Any kind volunteers?

I bet that signed layout will be worth a fortune in 50 years  :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 13, 2011, 07:08:12 PM
the tiny trem just became massive!... :icon_mrgreen:

nice one perrow.... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 14, 2011, 12:28:26 AM
Thanks

I've found one error.

The new components does not prevent you from playing pop, they reduce ticking. I'll see if I can edit that one  ::)

Kind of sleep deprived last week, couldn't quite find the word when writing that and went for the first one to pop into my mind (pun intended).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 14, 2011, 04:21:30 AM
The new components does not prevent you from playing pop, they reduce ticking. I'll see if I can edit that one  ::)

Well that's ruined to for me Perrow, I was gonna use this in my Girls Aloud covers band  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on January 14, 2011, 07:25:09 AM
hi rob i want to build this.. i just want to ask some question.. how fast is the fastest speed on it?

can your little circuit can be like boss tremolo fastest speed?
can this little thing can do tremolo like chop style?

Thanks
A2

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 14, 2011, 07:59:06 AM
@manny...there goes my spice girls-slayer tribute band too then....shame!.. :icon_twisted:


@ashwho...
http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/4/Hb0heYolcTc (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/4/Hb0heYolcTc)

i strongly suggest breadboarding this before building....some are more prone to clicking than others....experimenting  with this first is a  must!... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 14, 2011, 02:37:58 PM
i strongly suggest breadboarding this before building....some are more prone to clicking than others....experimenting  with this first is a  must!... :icon_cool:

That, or socket everything.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on January 15, 2011, 02:12:24 AM
Thanks Rob!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 15, 2011, 07:36:42 PM
what's the name of the drawing package that Perrow has used on the previous page?

I use eagle for PCBs, but need to do a couple of physical 'easy on the eye' guitar wiring layouts & that looks like it might be a contender.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 16, 2011, 05:52:42 AM
what's the name of the drawing package that Perrow has used on the previous page?

I use eagle for PCBs, but need to do a couple of physical 'easy on the eye' guitar wiring layouts & that looks like it might be a contender.

Looks like DIY layout creator to me, it's great for guitar wiring layouts and is dead easy to use.
Forum member and creator Bancika has it on his site over here http://diy-fever.com/ (http://diy-fever.com/).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 17, 2011, 04:00:01 AM
what's the name of the drawing package that Perrow has used on the previous page?

I use eagle for PCBs, but need to do a couple of physical 'easy on the eye' guitar wiring layouts & that looks like it might be a contender.

DIYLC as stated. "Easy on the eye", thanks  ;) I guess that's what I'm shooting for (although maybe not while drawing the wiring above).

ps. If you really want an "easy on the eyes", check this one http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86389.msg741787#msg741787   ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on January 17, 2011, 05:46:24 AM
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ledfader2.jpg)

Hi, has anyone tried building this version yet?
I'd love a review and/or a sound sample! This trem will definitely be my next project, I just have to decide which version to go for...  :-\

/Magnus

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 17, 2011, 06:36:52 AM
hi magnus, ive had it running on breadboard, as the name says it fades the led on/6ff rather than being choppy on/6ff..

very smooth light action....as always breadboard it first....cmos555 too ok... hope this helps. rob.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 17, 2011, 06:58:07 AM
Hi Magnus,

I've also tried both versions, with and without the transistor and have had success with both using a standard 555 and the cmos version.
Let us know how you get on.  :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on January 17, 2011, 07:22:37 AM
Will do!  :) I had an old ldr lying around so all I need to order is the 555.
A 2N2924 would do for testing purposes I guess?

Thanks!

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 17, 2011, 07:37:33 AM
Will do!  :) I had an old ldr lying around so all I need to order is the 555.
A 2N2924 would do for testing purposes I guess?

Thanks!

/Magnus


hmmm..not sure on that!...if its npn it might be ok though!.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on January 17, 2011, 07:41:48 AM
Yes, it is. I have a few around since building something Vox Trebleboosterish  :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on January 17, 2011, 07:42:24 AM
Rob....Manny......anybody else in UK.....

I was thinking of etching this up over the next couple of days - want one?  PM me your address and I'll stick it in the post.  
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 17, 2011, 07:49:21 AM
Rob....Manny......anybody else in UK.....

I was thinking of etching this up over the next couple of days - want one?  PM me your address and I'll stick it in the post.  

yay!...nice one mark...which layout are you going to use though!.?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 17, 2011, 08:52:13 AM
Rob....Manny......anybody else in UK.....

I was thinking of etching this up over the next couple of days - want one?  PM me your address and I'll stick it in the post.  

Cheers Mark!  :) PM sent...

yay!...nice one mark...which layout are you going to use though!.?

Have any of Perrow's been verified?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on January 17, 2011, 02:37:50 PM
Ah. Choices.

I was thinking of Perrow's layout on page 18.  Looks kosher to me. However if you think any other version is the way to go, I'll go with the flow. Happy to do a couple or three versions (for each of us) so they can be compared.

Over to you.....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 19, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
I've heard from reasonably reliable sources that Perrow himself would love to get an etched board (he's been promised one before but never gotten one), he does not live in the UK but another kingdom not that far away and rumour has it he'd be willing to transfer postage over Paypal :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on January 19, 2011, 04:39:55 PM
Manny, I understand you used the NE555, what were the issues?
I can see in the thread you had some problems with the timer, did you eventually resolve them for both modes?

Thanks!  :)
/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on January 19, 2011, 05:01:24 PM
Perhaps the reliable source could arrange for Perrow to PM me his address?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 20, 2011, 05:39:06 AM
Perhaps the reliable source could arrange for Perrow to PM me his address?

I will talk to him and see if that can be arranged.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 20, 2011, 09:46:22 AM
Manny, I understand you used the NE555, what were the issues?
I can see in the thread you had some problems with the timer, did you eventually resolve them for both modes?

Thanks!  :)
/Magnus


Hi Magnus,

Initially, the NE555 just got extremely hot until I added some resistance before the LEDs on the output pin.
There is a crude hand drawn layout a few pages back that I posted. That's the version that I used and it worked a treat with both versions of the chip.

Note that there is a small error on the drawing (one ground symbol too many on the left). Check the posts that follow it where I point it out.

 :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 20, 2011, 12:39:09 PM
Hi Guys,

Mark's boards arrived through the post today, and they look great!

Perrow, when I looked at the layout I knew it was small but not this small!

Here's a pic to put it into perspective:

(http://www.kochgruber.co.uk/stuff/IMG_0207.jpg)

PS: Brits, I would have used a 50p but I didn't want to freak anyone out with an equilaterally curved heptagonal coin.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 12:52:06 PM
ha ha..the 50p confusion... :icon_mrgreen:

wow that was quick!.... :o


get yourselves ready for the 'super miniscule amoebic trem'. :icon_mrgreen:. coming soon--ish!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Scruffie on January 20, 2011, 01:00:52 PM
ha ha..the 50p confusion... :icon_mrgreen:

wow that was quick!.... :o


get yourselves ready for the 'super miniscule amoebic trem'. :icon_mrgreen:. coming soon--ish!..

So that what that Simple LED Flasher is for  :icon_mrgreen:

Should give a nice Square Wave from what's been transpiring in that thread.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 01:09:20 PM
 :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on January 20, 2011, 01:15:09 PM

I didn't want to freak anyone out with an equilaterally curved heptagonal coin.

Indeed, who does?


 :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 01:44:39 PM
 :icon_mrgreen:

right ok guys, ive just tried this 'negistor'..(super miniscule amoebic trem ha ha)...and yay! it does work...and no click when its running...!!!!!....which is f====g excellent!
even with my mixer level full on...there is no noise at all..yayyyyyyy....even with the bleed depth....when not playing....yayyyyyyyyyyy...........
yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....but...

its is clicking when i play only... boooooo boooooooo. :-\....through the depth ground when turned off/full trem etc.....needs a bit of tinkering. :icon_rolleyes:


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on January 20, 2011, 05:39:08 PM
Perrow, when I looked at the layout I knew it was small but not this small!

Here's a pic to put it into perspective:

(http://www.kochgruber.co.uk/stuff/IMG_0207.jpg)

I don't even think I realize how small that board is. Just looking at your photo made me think, well a dil-8 plus one high, and just over double that wide. That means the board is just (equivalently) large enough to house three opamps with one row of connectors  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 06:19:18 PM
hi guys, been messing around with this 'negistor' tiny miniscule amoeba trem...heres a clip..

at the end i turn my mixer gain up full...no click...whooooo....added a quick depth pot too...still tinkering...but with good results..and no 555...whooooo.... :icon_twisted:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/negistortrem.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/negistortrem.mp3)

even smaller than tiny trem...the only issue i can foresee is what manny and me had with 'fussy' transistors...2n2222a's other than that cool......... 8)

schemo soon!...for those interested. :icon_wink:

schemo: of the soundclip....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20miniscule%20amoeba%20tremolo.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20miniscule%20amoeba%20tremolo.pdf)

heres a vero too... 8) f==k ive been busy today.....one day i'll create a 1 component pedal... :icon_eek:

special thanks go to armando.... :icon_cool:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/minisculetrem1.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 20, 2011, 07:49:09 PM
This circuit absolutely blows my mind. It took me like 15 minutes to realize how the dang thing works when the two parts of the circuit aren't connected (apparently I fail and reading LDR as light dependent resistor ;D). Cool concept bro.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 07:50:55 PM
cheers jace, yeah i love the little circuits that do a lot....crazy little bugger eh!... :icon_mrgreen:


edit: im running 2 leds off it too...red for the ldr and a green one for the rate indicator...the green one doesn't drain the arse out of the red one ok.... :icon_wink:

edit: f==k i just noticed my posts number....the 555...arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..its haunting me!... :icon_eek:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 20, 2011, 08:44:25 PM
Here's my contribution to this topic, a PCB layout for anyone who wants it.

Quote
edit: im running 2 leds off it too...red for the ldr and a green one for the rate indicator...the green one doesn't drain the arse out of the red one ok

I almost added a spot in there for another LED. From your other projects you seem to be in love with the rate LED idea.  ;D

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/AmoebaTremelo-1.png)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/AmoebaTremelo.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 20, 2011, 08:58:34 PM
nice one man...excellent, rapid work.... :icon_eek:

yeah i love an led or 2..or 20 ...its good to see the speed of it before you click it on.....thats my excuse anyway... :icon_mrgreen:

i think it may need a bit more tinkering on it before i commit it to a pcb as yet....theres a tiny bit of crackle when on rythm pickup, gotta sort that out..
but overall i prefer it to the annoying 555.....if you listen closely to the clip it is there....i think i need to up the resistor a bit on the led or something...

i think perrow,manny ,and above all mark, will be a bit pissed that they have pcb's for the 'tiny trem' now.....sorry guys...progress n all that stuff!... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 20, 2011, 09:02:25 PM
Jace,

One suggestion: Put the electro pads close together. That way you can push it in without having to bend the leads in funny ways, and it'll also be more stable.

Hopefully I can find a few minutes this week to perf it together... Thanks for the quick layout
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 20, 2011, 09:10:24 PM
Quote
One suggestion: Put the electro pads close together. That way you can push it in without having to bend the leads in funny ways, and it'll also be more stable

I'll make a new one I'm sure. I'll just until Rob decides on his final product. Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 21, 2011, 12:16:47 AM
Unable to leave well enough alone, I decided to jump into this spirit of as small as we can get it and redid the layout. I also added in a spot for a rate LED (the green one).

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/AmoebaTremelo-3.png)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/AmoebaTremelo-2.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 21, 2011, 04:21:39 AM
The amoebic trem is looking very cool Rob.
I'm waiting for some more 2N2222A's to try this with.

So I think we've at least discovered that it's the LDR causing the tick and not the 555...

I'm waiting for a 1590A to arrive so I can get started with one of Mark's boards.

Also, I think we've discovered a sort of Moore's Law of stompboxes, I think it should be named "Rob's Law" and could be expressed as:
"Every 10 posts, Rob's circuits will lose a component"
 ;D

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 21, 2011, 04:35:05 AM
hi manny , 'robs law' ha ha...

ive got it down to 1 resistor now!....... :icon_mrgreen:

but seriously, there is no 'ticking' at all....its more of an led/ldr resistance whack ya guitar and it crackles type of sound......(great description eh?)

changing the 100r off the led to ground to 1k say, dramatically changes/slows  the speed rate range for example...

i cant wait till some of you guys get ya bits and experiment too...this bugger 'will' be nailed......with no noises...eventually...

but im impressed with it so far....no clicking on full gain etc..........tweak...tweak..... :icon_wink:


@jace: green led  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 21, 2011, 03:51:40 PM
Found a mistake with my pcb layout. Ignore my last post. Here's the corrected layout.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/AmoebaTremelo2.png)


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 24, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
@manny, finally tested the 2 trannies armando sent..in my dmm...

just to let you all know ,they  read,

182 hfe

164  hfe...and both work...hmmmm.. :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on January 24, 2011, 12:56:09 PM
Is anyone making still making PCB's for the Tiny Trem or (now) making PCB's for the ameoba? Sure wouldn't mind having one...  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 24, 2011, 12:58:55 PM
i'm still tinkering as yet..... ::) :icon_mrgreen:

tiny enough to vero really though....but there is still a clicky issue with the 'tiny'

and the 'amoeba' needs to get rid of a bit of crackle only when you play...no ticking at all...thats why im going down this route...


anyone got any ideas on getting rid of the crackle?...looking at the pdf?..ive tried lots of stuff.. :icon_rolleyes:

its really clean until you put the depth pot on it..then it introduces a crackle when playing only...otherwise great!..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 24, 2011, 01:28:57 PM
I haven't started to try to tackle this project yet. To be honest, the great hunt for just the transistor kind of put me off. Does the circuit only crackle when the depth knob is on and does it do it the entire time it is on?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on January 24, 2011, 02:37:40 PM
Is there a schematic (vs a layout) for the amoeba?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 24, 2011, 03:24:51 PM
HERE (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20miniscule%20amoeba%20tremolo.pdf) you go.

He posted it in an earlier post.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 25, 2011, 06:52:02 AM
I haven't started to try to tackle this project yet. To be honest, the great hunt for just the transistor kind of put me off. Does the circuit only crackle when the depth knob is on and does it do it the entire time it is on?

yeah know what you mean about hunting for trannies... ::)

re:amoeba.
ive just tried it with the in on one side of ldr....and out on the other side of ldr....perfect..no crackle at all...without any form of depth control....

trems well on my rythm pickup and all other selections (5way)...not so choppy on my treble pickup though...

so the problem/crackle definately lies with the depth!...hmmm..ive tried varying the led brightness.in different ways, .but it ends up controlling the speed too...hmmmm... :P

so f=== it , im not having a depth......its going to be a 1 pot addition to another pedal.toggled..as an option.. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 25, 2011, 10:25:07 AM
Quote
ts going to be a 1 pot addition to another pedal.toggled..as an option
0

You could always slap in a spdt switch in place of the depth pot and stick two different resistors on there, like a 10k and a 22k. It might just be a silly little idea, but at least it would be some form of a depth control.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 25, 2011, 10:42:44 AM
yeah gotcha, i quite like the choppyness of it as is...im gonna use it on my 'pulsewah'...f=== it!.. :icon_twisted:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=88582.0

been working on the 'pulsewah' too long to remember, be nice for guitar and keyboards too.....and also to get out of my head and move on to other mad ideas i have.. :icon_rolleyes:

basically its a trem, with a morley wah, i just had to wait till i got rid of any trem noises to build the bugger.....

it will eventually be, a trem/wah/volume/ with these selections/ trem with wah/trem with vol/or just wah or just volume or just trem....just for the hell of it.......all in one... :icon_wink:

it works by using the morley ldr system but in reverse...the dark opens the wah/volume...instead of an led opening the wah...no treadle at all, just an ldr lying flat on the face of the box with an led facing it horizontally, (right angled led)

to compensate for daylight and darkness...and your foot interrupts the led........just a mad idea, but it works and sounds cool...and best of all pedal board friendly,  normal 1590bb.... 8)



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 25, 2011, 11:25:18 AM
That pulsewah certainly looks interesting Rob  :)
I've ordered a few different 2N2222a's from different places to see if any work.

I noticed the hFE on yours was slightly lower than mine but can't imagine that that would make any difference.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 25, 2011, 11:54:54 AM
That pulsewah certainly looks interesting Rob  :)
I've ordered a few different 2N2222a's from different places to see if any work.

I noticed the hFE on yours was slightly lower than mine but can't imagine that that would make any difference.

hi manny, yeah cant wait to get it done n dusted... :icon_rolleyes:

i hope you get a good batch...there's got to be some.....................theres just got to be!.................somewhere.!........(in a 1950's sci fi voice)............ :icon_mrgreen:

i dont know if it would make much difference hfe wise!...shame the ones i bought dont work :icon_frown:...ive seen a few around in places..ebay etc....but those 2 armando had, work definately..... lets see what you get, i
guess..

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: guitarmageddon on January 28, 2011, 09:36:54 AM
hi Rob,
I built this, incorporating your tiny trem idea. (scroll down a bit)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64752.600 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=64752.600)

It's a Photon Filter and optical trem, jammed in a 1590A . There's a switchable ldr mounted externaly too ;D

The internal ldrs (one for each effect) look at the back of the pulsing status light.
Its driven by a regular 555- so it does have a little clock noise :icon_rolleyes: but still sound cool.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: guitarmageddon on January 29, 2011, 05:25:37 AM
Heres a demo of my build.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g4buyZyeUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g4buyZyeUg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Dragonfly on January 29, 2011, 12:09:17 PM
deadastronaut - while you were looking at negister setups, did you check out the Negistrem the nordine came up with a while back?  Might give you some ideas....

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=66950.0


(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5971/neg2wo9.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on January 30, 2011, 05:56:00 AM
That Negistrem looks interesting.
Seem to rely on the same weird behaviour from 2n2222 family though.

I'm going to give this a try and see what happens. Any ideas which FET to use, or will any do? (I've got MPF102s and J201's around somewhere I think)
 :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 08:00:13 AM
@guitarmaggedon. nice, i love it. ive been doing a similar thing, using the ldr in a reverse action,so when ya foot covers the ldr the wah opens..
using my ' darklight'
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/DARKLIGHTLDR.jpg.html
instead of light hitting it...which leads to obvious problems in different lighting .....very cool  though i love the sound of that filter...great...
and cramming it into a 1590a...excellent... :icon_cool:



@dragonfly, yeah i came across that, on my web wanderings, looks good, i tried it with my dodgy 2n2222a's and a j201 but it didnt work...
i havent tried it with my 2x 2n2222a's that do work as a negistor though!...may have to re board it...thanks man.

btw, point 3 on earthtones list was interesting.....anti popping etc...

@manny, yeah that will be the problem i think, finding the elusive 2n2222a's that will actually work..but it looks like a cool circuit..i think j201's will do it..
i'll have to give it another go i think...

on the negistrem, i would suggest getting the negistor to work (whack an led in there to see or dmm)  before doing the rest of the circuit....

anyone know of an alternative tranny that will behave the same a the 'can' type 2n2222a's, if there is, then problem solved..... :icon_wink: rob.


edit: ive been looking at dano's lfo for a while, has anyone tried this lfo, and does it click?.....i havent a 40106 at the moment.. :icon_rolleyes:
http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/ColorsoundWah/index.htm


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 02:34:18 PM
I know of an alternate transistor that would work every time! A uni-junction transistor would work I do believe. 2N2646 (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=550) is a good example of one.

Honestly though, a 555 cmos chip would be cheaper and easier to come across. This is why they quit using uni-junction transistors I think. I don't know. I'm not old enough for them. Anyway, I think the "ticking" noise that comes from the 555 version of your tremolo has to do with the LDR, kind of like the crackling problem with the amoeba.

Here's a quick schematic I drew up proposing the uni-junction transistor idea. R1 and C1 control the rate and they should be anywhere between 10k (uf) and 50k (uf). R3 is 47 ohms and R2 is 100 ohms. You could still stick a pot on the power supply for a rate knob and I designed that idea around a 2n4871 because I happened to find one, but I'm almost certain a 2N2646 would work.

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/Zidane1234/flasher.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 03:25:22 PM
hi jace, that looks interesting, nice one, have you tried it?...at least its not a 2n2222 eh?.. :icon_wink:

on the subject of ticking, i tried a 4093 osc earlier..ticked like f...worked well though very stable etc.. :icon_rolleyes:


anyway on going through lots of different osc i went back to the cmoss 555...guess what, ...yay i got rid of the ticking..finally...

i stuck a 5k trimpot on the 9v going to the 555's 9v and dropped the voltage down..and voil'a no more ticking..

the voltage i have on the trim swings from 1.8v..to 3.3v......no click or tick...even at full volume and gain on my mixer....yay!!!!!!!!..

basically, drop the voltage into the 555 to the lowest v till it just works...even .....try it with a sag pot guys.....much much better.... :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:

WHOOOOOOOOO................... :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
[/color][/size]

i'll try it with a proper full size pot...get the right setting then read the resistance and throw a resistor across the 9v to 555...wahhheyyyyy.......report back later.. :icon_wink:

edit: ok tried it with a 10k pot...it reads 2.7k....so i stuck a 2.2k in there.. i also put a 100uf across the +- for good measure..power smoothing etc....all ok.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on January 30, 2011, 03:53:06 PM
'Kay. Now i've got to rebuild my 555 Tiny Trem.  8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 04:05:13 PM
hi josh, just try the voltage sag first....use a 10k pot ok...i put a 2.2k resistor on the 9v to the 555...sorted...

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 04:31:02 PM
Quote
hi jace, that looks interesting, nice one, have you tried it?...at least its not a 2n2222 eh?.

I threw one together earlier. It works with two different 2N4871 that I pulled out of something. I don't remember what it was though. Anyway, the LED flashes, but I haven't tried it with a LDR yet to see how that works out.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 04:50:03 PM
Quote
hi jace, that looks interesting, nice one, have you tried it?...at least its not a 2n2222 eh?.

I threw one together earlier. It works with two different 2N4871 that I pulled out of something. I don't remember what it was though. Anyway, the LED flashes, but I haven't tried it with a LDR yet to see how that works out.

cool, at least it works/flashes.....without the 2n2222's...nice one..


@all heres the latest tiny trem schematic ok.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem.pdf
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 30, 2011, 05:23:45 PM
Is this SPST switched?

Just disconnect the LDR?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 05:31:02 PM
Is this SPST switched?

Just disconnect the LDR?

no switch?..just in/out... ???


@jace have you got an ldr?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on January 30, 2011, 05:31:38 PM
'Kay... I had built it before... Most of the circuits still there... I was one of the guys having major ticking problems...  :-\ Hopefully the sag will stop it for me too.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 05:43:19 PM
Quote
@jace have you got an ldr?

I thought I did, but I couldn't find any in my parts bin. I'll have to go to radioshack tonight and knab one.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 05:46:53 PM
Quote
@jace have you got an ldr?

I thought I did, but I couldn't find any in my parts bin. I'll have to go to radioshack tonight and knab one.

wow what a time difference there is...its 10:45pm here....nothing open apart from pubs.. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 30, 2011, 07:49:09 PM
Is this SPST switched?

Just disconnect the LDR?

no switch?..just in/out... ???


@jace have you got an ldr?...

Well... "True Bypass" with a 3PDT would make one throw a wire, and the other throw a wire with a resistor to ground. Why not just disconnect the resistor to keep offboard wiring to a minimum, simplify parts, have sturdier switches (chances of it going bad being 1/(# poles)?)  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 09:08:47 PM
I went and got a LDR and guess what. The circuit works just fine, no crackling and no ticking. I have it set up like your amoeba tremolo too.

How the LDR part of this circuit works is that you essentially have your in and out connected together and they both go to ground with an LDR between them and the ground. As the led part of the circuit flashes, it causes the LDR to change resistance and drop both its input and output to ground. This is what makes the tremolo style effect. Hope that clears up some confusion about this circuit.
 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 09:15:49 PM
ahhhh nice one jace...glad it worked out...no noise yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......

@phil.

ahhhhh..gotcha, wondered what you meant...yeah true bypass with a dpdt...yep.!..

i was wondering how to wire this up..but with a power led/on off....but with the rate led on all the time...using a 3dpt?

hmmmm...just tried the 220 in and out of breadboard,...no popping etc...so yeah it would be ok switching that...

hmmmm how to switch it?..the way i want it...with a dpdt?...nice reliable switch..

here's a diagram of it on vero for now...can someone fill in the switching/wiring?...im used to 3pdt's..and the in/outs a bit weirder than i'm used too...

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytem.gif)

ive gotta say this is working really well too....happy bunny at last...just need to box the bugger now ha ha...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 09:31:09 PM
I'm just glad I figured out a transistor to use instead of those finicky 2N2222a's. Unfortunately, uni-junctions are uncommon. Oh well. I'm going to order some uni's from smallbear and see if I can use them as a substitute.

A tremolo small enough to fit into a 1590a. :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 09:37:23 PM
yeah, those uni's look pricey too...cool circuit though ...and above all it works.. :icon_wink:

the tiny trem would fit nicely in a 1590a..

guitarmaggedon made a nice one in a 1590a,   with wah filter too..external ldr as well...crammed in....great stuff.... :icon_cool:


any idea on the wiring above?..for power led, on/off but rate led on all the time.using a 3dpt..hmmmm :-\

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 09:47:00 PM
Well, I'm on my crackberry so I can't draw a diagram.

I would just put a yellow led in parallel with the red led that is affected the ldr. That would be my rate led. Then I would wire up the switch like regular.

1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9

Put a jumper that goes from 1 to 9 and then put the input tip to lug 1. Lug 2 gets your negative side of your status led. Lug 3 is your cir
cuit's effect output. Lug 4 is your circuit's effect input. Lug 5 should go to ground. Lug 6 goes your output tip. Lug 7 and 8 need to be jumpered together.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
cheers man, but i want to use a 6 pole dpdt..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 10:05:55 PM
Whoops. Apparently I can't read. Derp.

Anyway This (http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/switch_lo_dpdt_mil.gif?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a) is what you want. Keep the rate LED in parallel with the other one.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 30, 2011, 10:07:35 PM
Ok, so pole 1 has "Wire from IN-->OUT" connected to center lug, Top lug connects to D1

Pole 2 has center connected to ground, top lug connected to indicator LED flat side.

(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/phil2004/tinytem.gif)

Cheers
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 10:11:01 PM
Oh now I get what you meant by the switch idea.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 10:13:00 PM
@jace, yeah, it wont need a millenium..its straight in out.. :icon_mrgreen:


@phil, cheers man, ill draw it up, . it was confusing me with the in/out.  :icon_redface:

i'm used to the 3dpts'....but this is a little weird to get my head round..thanks,
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 30, 2011, 10:14:46 PM
(Edited with pic!)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
nice one phil ..your a star!...brilliant.

i thought you would switch the 220/9v on off...?

edit:..oh yeah the rate led.. :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 10:25:23 PM
*edit*

Phil beat me to it
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 10:30:12 PM
aha...cool...cheers guys. :icon_cool:

edited.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 10:50:45 PM
Back on my computer. Yay! Anyway, after checking out Phil's picture (didn't have my blackberry set up to view them) That's the smarter way to wire up that bad boy to a dpdt.  So just ignore what I put haha.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 11:05:16 PM
ok, cheers man,.

heres a clip of it in action....nice n smooth..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/trem1wav.wav..


right i'll go with phils.(cheers phil )..but with another led for on /off...not using the rate led as on/off..though.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 30, 2011, 11:13:08 PM
Enjoy!


Does this absolutely need a CMOS555? Only got one left...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 11:18:30 PM
i would use one...

some have been ok with a normal 555, some got really hot though!..but that was when 9v was running it....socket it i guess...

p.s on that diagram, where does my in tip...and out tip go....to the board in/out?..sorry mate, just still dont get it.. :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 11:20:18 PM
ok, cheers man,.

heres a clip of it in action....nice n smooth..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/trem1wav.wav..


right i'll go with phils.(cheers phil )..but with another led for on /off...not using the rate led as on/off..though.

Nice man.

I'm too lazy to make a diagram, but keep a LED in parallel with your LDR LED will get you your rate LED.

Then, wire it as such:

1 2
3 4
5 6

1 is the input/output of your effect, 2 is the negative side of your on/off LED, with the positive side going to the DC jack, 3 goes to the in and out tips of your jacks, 4 goes to ground, and 5/6 are not connected. Bingo!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 11:23:12 PM
whoooooo.....cheers jace, i'll give it a go.....whooooooo....... :icon_cool:

bingo, full house!... :icon_mrgreen:

the 3mm led on the board is the rate led..that will go in the top of the box...always on

so theres  2 leds on the box , speed, and on/off...coz i'm greedy... :icon_mrgreen:

like this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ere.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 30, 2011, 11:55:58 PM
Looks legit to me.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 30, 2011, 11:58:15 PM
cool. as long as i put a resistor on the led neg.. :icon_wink:

i'll tidy it up now then.. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 31, 2011, 12:03:55 AM
The positive leg of the led gets the resistor.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 12:09:29 AM
The positive leg of the led gets the resistor.

i always whack em on the neg...even on breadboard!..hmmmm.. ???

as in..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/3pdt-wiring_png.png

anyway, im off to  bed..its 5:10am...here...... :icon_rolleyes:

cheers man, rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 31, 2011, 12:14:54 AM
Hmm. I've never seen anyone do it like that. Well, if it works, it works.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 31, 2011, 01:06:07 AM
Yup, looks good to me too!

But don't forget the resistor, unless you want the LED to turn yellow, then dark  ;)

With 4x24V drill batteries in series, they also turn smelly!

EDIT: Oh, and I think there's a reason why people put the resistor on the positive side of the LED... In case it shorts to ground?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: guitarmageddon on January 31, 2011, 02:19:51 AM

heres a clip of it in action....nice n smooth..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/trem1wav.wav..

That's a beautiful thing,  :icon_biggrin:congatulations!
I guess now you can get some sleep.

Ben
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 06:47:30 AM
morning..YAWN!..stretch , cup o' tea...etc........ :P

@phil..righto!...i'll try it on 4x24volt batteries later then...with the led resistor of course. :icon_twisted: :icon_wink: ;D
arghhhhhhhhhhhhh surprise surprise...it blew up!.. :icon_mrgreen:.(only joking)....oh yeah phil, i'll try my other 555's in it and see how it gets on ok...

@ben, yeah sounds really good now. i guess you'll have to update your lovely little 1590a again....but worth it..... :icon_wink:

well today i'm going to be looking at drawing up a pcb for it , instead of vero...get it nice and tidy with added led and resistor on board too...
if i get round to it....i may be some time...my first pcb design..i usually work in vero......probably lots of mistakes etc...but hey worth a try.. :icon_cool:
c ya later guys...i'm so glad this li'l b*****d is sorted... :icon_cool:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Hides-His-Eyes on January 31, 2011, 07:09:25 AM
has anyone built this dead bug style?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 07:18:38 AM
not that i know of...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Dragonfly on January 31, 2011, 11:34:35 AM


@dragonfly, yeah i came across that, on my web wanderings, looks good, i tried it with my dodgy 2n2222a's and a j201 but it didnt work...
i havent tried it with my 2x 2n2222a's that do work as a negistor though!...may have to re board it...thanks man.



J201 wont work - you need a jfet designed for switching applications, like a j113

:)



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Dragonfly on January 31, 2011, 11:36:14 AM
I know of an alternate transistor that would work every time! A uni-junction transistor would work I do believe. 2N2646 (http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=550) is a good example of one.




The Vox Repeat Percussion uses a unijunction (also a 2646 IIRC)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: sed on January 31, 2011, 05:02:43 PM
whoooooo.....cheers jace, i'll give it a go.....whooooooo....... :icon_cool:

bingo, full house!... :icon_mrgreen:

the 3mm led on the board is the rate led..that will go in the top of the box...always on

so theres  2 leds on the box , speed, and on/off...coz i'm greedy... :icon_mrgreen:

like this?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ere.gif)


I've been reading this thread with interest...
Do you still keep signal ground and power ground separated? If so, the drawn switching of the status LED won't work. The led has to be connected to power ground. Just tie the ground lugs of input jack and output jack together without going to the switch. Replace signal ground on the switch with power ground.

Daniel
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 31, 2011, 05:14:31 PM
With input jack power switching, the case will be grounded.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 06:55:08 PM
ok heres the final layout. i think... ::) with added led/resistor too...loads of leds.... :icon_mrgreen:

my secretary will print up the pcb of it...tomorrow...and its still tiny... :icon_wink:

@phil, i tried various 555's..and they definately arent as good/stable as the cmos....stick with them ok..i tried 4 different ones
one thing i noticed in particular was the 'normal 555's were faster speed wise...than the cmos...just swapping them over..no knob twiddling etc...
but were noisier definately....the cmos is quiet as a mouse...great!...so cmos it is ok guys....

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremwiringlayoutpcb1.gif)


also i was checking around and found these low power ones...what do  you think of  these for this?...or stick with the standard cmos555..?
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/25485/STMICROELECTRONICS/TS555.html
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 31, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
The layout looks just fine to me.

I think it would be pretty nice if could power that bad boy with one of THESE (http://cgi.ebay.com/10-pc-SONY-CR2032-CR-2032-3v-Lithium-Battery-EXP-2019-/250499808241?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item3a52f3bbf1) or something of the like. As it is right now, I think that bad boy is small enough to fit into an altoid's case with a 9v battery so just having a small battery would just be flashy, but the smaller the better, right?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 07:35:47 PM
yeah right...it could be built into a guitar even......hmmmm......would have to lose a couple of leds though... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on January 31, 2011, 07:37:22 PM
yeah right...it could be built into a guitar even......hmmmm......would have to lose a couple of leds though... :icon_mrgreen:

Lose LED's? Nonsense! Make that guitar SUPER flashy.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on January 31, 2011, 07:43:55 PM
yeah lets rarrrrrk... :icon_twisted:..ive been messing around with different colour leds today as it happens...

not with the ldr setup though...thats hi bright red...not super..but better than the usual diffused....

i tried supers but its too low voltage to kick em in..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on January 31, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
Paul Marossy's site has a cool onboard preamp that uses a compact 12V battery. You could probably power this thing with one of those... battery's about 1" in length, 1cm diameter and can probably keep this running for a bit.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on February 01, 2011, 02:40:54 AM
Ah crapsocks!  I etched some boards last night, but didn't check this thread so I missed Rob's latest tweak. Guess I'll do more tonight. Arse.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 01, 2011, 06:40:45 AM
@mark ooooops.....feck...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 01, 2011, 06:55:26 AM
hi mark, yeah its all sorted now...seems obvious now to drop the voltage on the 555...dont know why i didnt think of it before... :-\

thats what comes of only having a 9v psu... :icon_rolleyes:

oh well...all better now!... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: faptdivers on February 01, 2011, 08:20:51 AM
So does the voltage sag cure the ticking on a regulat 555 to? Or is it just for the cmos version.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: earthtonesaudio on February 01, 2011, 08:38:42 AM
So does the voltage sag cure the ticking on a regulat 555 to? Or is it just for the cmos version.

The same principle works on both chips, however the bipolar 555 draws more current, so by the time you have introduced enough series resistance to isolate the oscillator power from the audio section's power, you've dropped too much voltage and the 555 no longer oscillates.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 01, 2011, 08:51:53 AM
^cmos only...others are noisey..try them andsee/hear the difference... :icon_wink:

@alex.

what's your opinion on these low power ones...would they be more suitable for the lowered voltage?..

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/25485/STMICROELECTRONICS/TS555.html
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 03, 2011, 09:44:03 AM
etched my box today..and a few pcbs.. :icon_cool:

the yellow speed led is going in the middle of the  atomic symbol...on/off red leds will be three little outer nodes...i love an led or 4..ha ha...

ive got hold of some of those low powered ts555cn's..cmos..i'll try those later and post my results.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P030211_14.29.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P030211_13.57.JPG)

look at my knobs... :icon_mrgreen:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P030211_14.54.JPG)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on February 03, 2011, 10:29:17 AM
Nice Rob. It looks pretty stinkin' good to me. Watch out though! I've been working on my tremolo idea to make one even smaller than yours.  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 03, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
Nice Rob. It looks pretty stinkin' good to me. Watch out though! I've been working on my tremolo idea to make one even smaller than yours.  ;D

what a 1590a?.... :icon_wink:

btw guys, i tried the low powered ts555's. great!...very suitable...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jhouse on February 03, 2011, 01:48:18 PM

btw guys, i tried the low powered ts555's. great!...very suitable...

Awesome! I'll have to give those a look at too.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: earthtonesaudio on February 03, 2011, 01:59:06 PM
^cmos only...others are noisey..try them andsee/hear the difference... :icon_wink:

@alex.

what's your opinion on these low power ones...would they be more suitable for the lowered voltage?..

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/25485/STMICROELECTRONICS/TS555.html

I don't know about those other chips.  The key is not low voltage operation but low current.  Two circuits sharing a common power supply act as a current divider, so if one is drawing large spikes of current it will steal from the other, and you'll hear that as a pop.

The way to fight this problem, generally, is with power supply decoupling and bypassing.  You want some generous bulk capacitance for the power supply once it's inside the enclosure, each separate circuit ought to have its own bypass cap, and there should be an RC filter in the power wire between the noisy circuit and the sensitive one.

The low current draw of the CMOS part makes the job easier because you can use a bigger resistor without dropping too much voltage.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 03, 2011, 07:25:14 PM
pcb done.. :icon_mrgreen:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P040211_00.16%5B01%5D.JPG)


edit:

am so glad to finally get this off my breadboard at last........now i can get on with my next 'tiny project'....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on February 03, 2011, 07:58:07 PM
Tiny 5-component flanger?  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 03, 2011, 08:03:22 PM
ha ha....close, but no cigar!!!!.... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 04, 2011, 03:14:28 AM
Mojo in a box? (http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/?action=view&current=MIAB.gif)

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/MIAB.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: guitarmageddon on February 04, 2011, 03:26:48 AM
etched my box today..and a few pcbs.. :icon_cool:

the yellow speed led is going in the middle of the  atomic symbol...on/off red leds will be three little outer nodes...i love an led or 4..ha ha...

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P030211_14.29.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P030211_13.57.JPG)

Thats a beautiful etch, and the design is so appropriate for such a small curcuit.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 04, 2011, 05:29:55 AM
@perrow: ahhhh we have a winner!..ive been sussed!....got any soundclips?..... :icon_mrgreen:

@ben: thanks for the nice comments man, yeah it is very appropriate....i do love an etch...  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on February 04, 2011, 07:18:32 AM
Very nice box and board Rob.  :)
I need to find the time to get mine boxed up. It's been sitting there waiting for a couple of weeks now.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 04, 2011, 07:29:53 AM
cheers manny, am boxing it today, i let my brother loose with the drill on it...and he drilled the top leds holes bigger than i wanted...b.......d... :icon_eek:

so now have to use 5mm leds on top...arghhhhh...oh well thats what i get for leaving him to it...and i'll certainly know when its on /off etc... :icon_rolleyes:

the rate led is still 3mm yellow though...it works best..i tried red/green etc..but they stole a bit of depth.....

ive tested the pcb through my breadboard and all is fine...layout on page 24..very very verified... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: neutronarmy on February 04, 2011, 12:27:12 PM
Any suggestions on the specs for the LDR? I don't use them often enough to know what works best in this kind of circuit. If I'm searching properly, Mouser doesn't carry any. I found some while looking at Futurlec, but wasn't sure which to order:

http://www.futurlec.com/Photocells.shtml

I'm excited to get this built. It looks like a really great, simple project. Thanks in advance!

-Chris
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 04, 2011, 03:25:38 PM
@perrow: ahhhh we have a winner!..ive been sussed!....got any soundclips?..... :icon_mrgreen:

Can't take credit for it, it's frequencycentrals design, so you'll have to ask him for soundclips.

@Chris: I ordered from futurlec a week or so ago and went with "hell, for $0.25 each I'll order an array of ldr's and try 'em out". I don't know your budget constraints, but you might give that option some thought.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: neutronarmy on February 04, 2011, 04:36:28 PM
@perrow: ahhhh we have a winner!..ive been sussed!....got any soundclips?..... :icon_mrgreen:

Can't take credit for it, it's frequencycentrals design, so you'll have to ask him for soundclips.

@Chris: I ordered from futurlec a week or so ago and went with "hell, for $0.25 each I'll order an array of ldr's and try 'em out". I don't know your budget constraints, but you might give that option some thought.

Perrow - That is likely what I'm going to do. The reason I asked was that I don't play guitar and was scouting around for a DIY tremolo for my brother (the recipient of many of my effects pedal related gifts). Thus, I'm unlikely to notice if it is as good as it could be.

Thanks for the help though! I really appreciate how helpful this forum's community is. So helpful, that looking and searching has managed to answer most all of my questions without even having to ask. Keep doing what you're doing.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on February 05, 2011, 07:34:37 PM
This may have been answered earlier and I missed it, but why a 3mm LED for the rate indicator as opposed to 5mm?  Is it due to ma draw?  If so, wouldn't a low ma 5mm be just fine?  Mouser has them down to 1ma.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: phector2004 on February 05, 2011, 07:39:41 PM
Any suggestions on the specs for the LDR? I don't use them often enough to know what works best in this kind of circuit. If I'm searching properly, Mouser doesn't carry any. I found some while looking at Futurlec, but wasn't sure which to order:

http://www.futurlec.com/Photocells.shtml

I'm excited to get this built. It looks like a really great, simple project. Thanks in advance!

-Chris


All of them should work with dark resistances > 1MΩ, but I think the light resistance determines the depth of the effect. You can always get one with lower light resistance and put it in series with a resistor or trimmer to fine-tune
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 05, 2011, 07:48:55 PM
built and done. behaves really well....doing video demo at the moment... :icon_cool:

got to shorten the pot shafts...too long for the knobs.. :icon_rolleyes: :icon_mrgreen:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P060211_00.34.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P040211_14.28.JPG)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 05, 2011, 09:17:05 PM
heres the demo video guys...

http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry?feature=mhum#p/u/0/UwvCvSwbXYI (http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry?feature=mhum#p/u/0/UwvCvSwbXYI)


edit: now ive sorted this i may go back and revisit the dual tremolo.stereo panner again....hmmmm...sounded great on lead..moving around the mix..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Dragonfly on February 05, 2011, 10:43:09 PM
built and done. behaves really well....doing video demo at the moment... :icon_cool:

got to shorten the pot shafts...too long for the knobs.. :icon_rolleyes: :icon_mrgreen:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P060211_00.34.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P040211_14.28.JPG)


Rob....



Wow.


Just WOW !


I think I fell in love with this pedal....

 :-*


 ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 05, 2011, 10:47:54 PM
cheers man, yeah i love it......... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: snakey on February 07, 2011, 12:48:21 AM
Quick question, how does this work? The input and the output are connected so wouldn't it just bypass your whole circuit? I think i'm missing some sort of valuable information and i'm probably going to look like an idiot :P.
Also can i request a non populated layout please. thank you.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on February 07, 2011, 01:15:14 AM
Quick question, how does this work? The input and the output are connected so wouldn't it just bypass your whole circuit? I think i'm missing some sort of valuable information and i'm probably going to look like an idiot :P.
Also can i request a non populated layout please. thank you.

The input and output are connected, but the LDR shunts signal to ground at a rate determined by the 555 LFO speed. Think of turning a volume knob up and down really fast.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 07, 2011, 04:14:57 AM

Also can i request a non populated layout please. thank you.

what patrick said^

i'll try and get round to it soon ok...busy today.  or download diylc and copy it...ok.

its very easy to knock one up on vero for a quickie....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 07, 2011, 08:08:35 AM
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytrem.png)

This is my version of the "final" design (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87322.msg759986#msg759986). Unverified as always :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on February 07, 2011, 08:56:18 AM
This may have been answered earlier and I missed it, but why a 3mm LED for the rate indicator as opposed to 5mm?  Is it due to ma draw?  If so, wouldn't a low ma 5mm be just fine?  Mouser has them down to 1ma.

Still no answer on this?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 07, 2011, 09:23:37 AM
I think that previously it was used to reduce ticking (probably due to less ma's). Don't know if you're safe to use higher ma leds with the latest mod.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on February 07, 2011, 12:31:21 PM
I think that previously it was used to reduce ticking (probably due to less ma's). Don't know if you're safe to use higher ma leds with the latest mod.

But most 3mm LEDs I have seen draw the same 20ma as a standard 5mm.  I'm not interested in drawing more ma, actually less.  I want to use low ma 5mm LEDs like this:  Red Led (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Everlight/HLMPD155A/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs4quMj8r4lmuU5JaYi%2f88HIIVri%2fvX1Rw%3d)

10 mcd 5mm RED Led with only 1ma draw at 1.6volts.  That would be bright enough for the indicator I'd imagine right?

**edit**
Ok, that last one requires 2,800 orders and it's not currently in stock lol.

How about this for the LDR part: 5mm Red LED 14 deg viewing angle 70mcd 10ma (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/TLHR6205/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs4quMj8r4lmnczVPpNfZYximfmK2misfM%3d)

And this one for the indicator: 5mm Red LED 30 deg viewing angle 10mcd 10ma (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/TLHR5400/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs4quMj8r4lmpVSMMjUB51P7XBVIhNkJWk%3d)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 07, 2011, 12:59:27 PM
joe: yep that should be ok...1.6v anyway..

i used the 3mm....the 5mm took away too much...it lost a bit of depth...breadboard it you'll see/hear what i meant. :icon_wink:


edit:

hmmmm dunno on them...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 09, 2011, 08:09:27 AM
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytrem.png)

This is my version of the "final" design (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87322.msg759986#msg759986). Unverified as always :)

@pelle.

in/out should be on one side top of the ldr...

depth pot (3)to the other side..(2)  ground..

also led (d1)is wrong way round. :icon_wink:

and you are missing the ldr led...

also add another ground pad to go to jack ground...(or it wont work..)

on off led needs a ground pad too....and another pad for switch..

470 should be connecting pins7-8 too.... :icon_wink:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/PnP.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 09, 2011, 09:41:57 AM
@pelle.

in/out should be on one side top of the ldr...

depth pot (3)to the other side..(2)  ground..

also led (d1)is wrong way round. :icon_wink:

and you are missing the ldr led...

also add another ground pad to go to jack ground...(or it wont work..)

on off led needs a ground pad too....and another pad for switch..

470 should be connecting pins7-8 too.... :icon_wink:

In/out, yes that should be on one side of the ldr.

Depth 3 should be on the other side.

D1, doh

Missing the ldr led? If that's not D1 I don't know what D1 is :icon_wink:

Connect jack ground off depth pot.

470R (or R1) is connecting pin 7-8  >:(  ;D

Anyway, here's an updated (and yes you get to search this thread to know which pins to connect on the rate pot :) )

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytrem-finalv2.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 09, 2011, 09:52:45 AM
 :icon_mrgreen:...

i meant ldr led..and rate led!!!!.. :icon_wink:

oh yeah i see the 470 now!.. :icon_mrgreen:

edit:....i see it now ha ha...one of those days man.. :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 09, 2011, 10:13:57 AM
:icon_mrgreen:...

i meant ldr led..and rate led!!!!.. :icon_wink:

oh yeah i see the 470 now!.. :icon_mrgreen:

edit:....i see it now ha ha...one of those days man.. :icon_redface:

Your edit showed up when I was replying, so you just managed to escape the sarcasm this time  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 09, 2011, 10:22:38 AM
 :icon_mrgreen:

ive got a massive hangover today...so be nice... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 09, 2011, 10:36:51 AM
:icon_mrgreen:

ive got a massive hangover today...so be nice... :icon_wink:

I could go into the "it's your own fault you feel like that" charade, but I guess you'll never learn  ;D

So I'll just ask, was last night worth today?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 09, 2011, 10:57:29 AM
yes!...it was great at the time....theres always a payback though eh... :icon_rolleyes:

i never learn...every week... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 12, 2011, 12:16:22 PM
Built it from the vero layout. First it blinked somewhat irregular: first normal, then all of a sudden really quick and then not at all! Then I put 1K resistors in series with the leds and now it blinks regularly. It does tick a little... that's a shame.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 12, 2011, 03:40:10 PM
@savaas. did you use a cmos 555?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 12, 2011, 07:32:37 PM
Yes it's a cmos: TS555CN. What's also weird is that if i connect the battery it doesn't blink. I have to touch ground once (which i have separated from signal ground, unlike the vero) and then it starts blinking correctly. What the f...? When i disconnect the battery and connect it again it works ok. Only when it's been off for a longer time.  ??? I have also tried another chip, but same issue.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 13, 2011, 06:34:58 AM
just tried it on breadboard...perfectly fine..

no need for seperate grounds etc...using ts555cn .no ticking at all........

with my gain and volume full on my mixer.... ::)

btw i have an in jack and out jack permanently fixed to my breadboard all grounds connected on same rail......if the guitar jack in/outs are not plugged in it wont work.....

edit: i see what you mean about it not starting after removing power after a while...i connected pins 4 and 5 with a jumper on the ts555cn and it sorted that out ok...

seems the ts555 behaves slightly differently to the standard cmos555...


this can behave differently according to leds used also.....i'm using 5mm high bright for ldr/led..

and 3mm yellow for rate...

ok heres what it has to be when using the ts555cn ok...notice the pin4-5 connection. if this is not connected it will take about 20 seconds to flash...

here ya go.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/TS555TINYTREM.gif)

heres the vero for the ts555cn version ok.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ts555cnvero.gif)


i have updated my gallery to include this and deleted all other versions ok........done!. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on February 13, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
I was having the same starting problem with my TLC555 cmos... I'll have to connect pins 4, 5 see if that sorts it... Rob, what voltage are you feeding the 555 after the resistor? Mine will go at 3.5v but turns back off after 3-5 seconds... 3.75v and it runs for 10-12 seconds... Data sheet says it wants 4.5v minimum but I haven't had a chance to try it at 4.5v...  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 13, 2011, 03:13:41 PM
im getting...1.75v- 2.75...ish after the 2.2k into the 555..its working fine with the pin-4-5 connected...

i read it will work from 2v-18v...


it goes from 1.75-2.75 over a 10 seconds cycle up n down....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 13, 2011, 04:46:22 PM
Latest final version ::)

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/Tinytrem-finalv3.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 14, 2011, 04:14:59 AM
 ::) indeed.... :icon_mrgreen:

its just that ts555cn, is a different kind of beast....but tamed now...hmmmmm.....for now.....hmmmm....@#$%ing better be..arghhhh my head....... :icon_wink:

no really its cool now guys...i had it running all day on my breadboard and it was fine ok.. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: hackertronix on February 14, 2011, 03:58:37 PM
i will be building one of these soon, and it will probaby be my first stomp box! ;-)

stupid question regarding 555...555 cmoss?! so, is this different than a 555 timer i can pick up at radioshack?

does this circuit simply fluxuate the volume, similar to amp tremolo of the days of 'ole? i hope so! ;-)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 14, 2011, 04:41:28 PM
Rob,
I tried all your tips: connected pins 4&5, connected the grounds together. I even removed the led resistors, because i got about 1.80 volts at pin 1. Now it doesn't do anything! Dead!
I'm thinking about giving up! Sorry. This thing is not making me happy.
I think i'm gonna build the EA trem!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: MetalUpYerEye on February 14, 2011, 07:15:49 PM
You wont regret building the EA trem!

Just make sure you add the switchable 'booster mod' because it acts as a really sweet sounding boost pedal too.  ;D

... Still haven't had time to get my Tiny Trem sorted...  :-[
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 15, 2011, 06:23:30 AM
@servaas, strange..shame.....ive tried 8 of the same ts555 with no problems...in fact ive just built 4 complete boards ready to go in boxes..and all are tested and fine..so i dont see what the problem can be... :icon_eek:

@hackertronix...as you can see some people have problems with this, i dont know why..so i suggest you breadboard it first ok..(make sure your leads in /out are plugged in)otherwise it wont work ok......its simple enough to do ok..

btw, you must use a cmos 555....yes it is a timer... but not a standard 555 ok........the standard 555 ticks....or gets hot....


i will put up the updated schematic ok, so there is no confusion issues...........

edit: heres the schematic ok ...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%202011.pdf
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: twabelljr on February 15, 2011, 06:57:10 AM
Quote
is this different than a 555 timer i can pick up at radioshack?

You can get a CMOS555 timer from Rad Shack. :http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062595 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062595)
They also have the regular 555 of course so make sure you grab the right one.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 15, 2011, 10:06:18 AM
Just a couple of comments on the latest schem.

There's no on/off switch - but if you put one binetween the 9V & R5, you could then save an LED & resistor (the on/off led), on account you've a rate led....ie if it's flashing, then your TinyTremelo is on!

There aren't any current limiting resistor between pin 3 & the leds?

That depth pot effectiveness is going to be dependent on the characteristics of the LDR - is there a specific LDR recommended?  

The dark led resistance spec of the LDR is going to be very important here. You may already know, but essentially, whetever resistance it's spec'ed at, is in parallel with your circuit input - if the circuit's input is a guitar then that LDR is in parallel with your guitar vol pot. So if the LDR has a dark resistance of say 340k (eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=LDR%2077k-340k)  , then that would take the effective value of a 250k guitar volume knob to just 144k...which will likely start impacting the tone of your guitar.....even with the power removed from the circuit.  Therefore you really want an LDR with a high dark resistance figure.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 15, 2011, 10:36:55 AM
Just a couple of comments on the latest schem.

There's no on/off switch - but if you put one binetween the 9V & R5, you could then save an LED & resistor (the on/off led), on account you've a rate led....ie if it's flashing, then your TinyTremelo is on!

There aren't any current limiting resistor between pin 3 & the leds?

That depth pot effectiveness is going to be dependent on the characteristics of the LDR - is there a specific LDR recommended?  

The dark led resistance spec of the LDR is going to be very important here. You may already know, but essentially, whetever resistance it's spec'ed at, is in parallel with your circuit input - if the circuit's input is a guitar then that LDR is in parallel with your guitar vol pot. So if the LDR has a dark resistance of say 340k (eg http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate.asp?criteria=LDR%2077k-340k)  , then that would take the effective value of a 250k guitar volume knob to just 144k...which will likely start impacting the tone of your guitar.....even with the power removed from the circuit.  Therefore you really want an LDR with a high dark resistance figure.

hi gurner,.
yeah..on/off is done with dpdt....i also like the speed rate led on all the time as a visual time reference when off/bypassed.

no need for current limiting resistors...works fine. hasnt popped an led so far... :icon_wink:

1m dark resistance ldr is what ive used...if i remember correctly... :-\

i hear no tonal difference on the demo.......checkout the wiring layout..this is how its wired up in the video demo...seems ok to me!..i know what your saying though with the depth etc...

ive tried a few tremolo's and found them to suffer volume drop when clicked on...this doesnt drop at all as its sort of in a state of bypass all the time..sort of :icon_mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry?feature=mhum#p/u/0/UwvCvSwbXYI

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremwiringlayoutpcb1.gif)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 15, 2011, 04:59:06 PM
@servaas, strange..shame.....ive tried 8 of the same ts555 with no problems...in fact ive just built 4 complete boards ready to go in boxes..and all are tested and fine..so i dont see what the problem can be... :icon_eek:
Did you build the vero layout?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 16, 2011, 06:30:45 AM
@servaas, strange..shame.....ive tried 8 of the same ts555 with no problems...in fact ive just built 4 complete boards ready to go in boxes..and all are tested and fine..so i dont see what the problem can be... :icon_eek:
Did you build the vero layout?

no..i made some pcb's out of the layout above ^^^^....just because i new i was going to be etching anyway so i made a few.. but its the same as the vero (page 26)

i just had to put a snippet of wire to connect pins 4-5 on the ts555 pcb version....... on the newest vero version i have designed this on it and it will be ok...

the cmos 555 i used in the video was an old ic that i couldnt get anymore.... it came from an old bag of bits donated to me
by a friend who's dad sadly passed on....i tried various models of 555 and cmos was the best for no noise etc..but only had 1 of those.....this is why i had to get the newer ts555cn...but they work the same...apart from the 4-5 connection.
which i think is down to being fed lower power...if you dont feed it lower power it will tick....

which vero did you build....?..the original page 1 version does tick..(which i have removed from my gallery)..this new version (page 26) doesnt ...and is fine. (cmos 555 only )...(ts555cn low powered version is what im using)

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/T/S/5/5/TS555CN.shtml

note:

VERY . LOW POWER CONSUMPTION : .100mA typ at VCC = 5V HIGH MAXIMUM ASTABLE FREQUENCY
.2.7MHz PIN-TO-PIN AND FUNCTIONALLY
.COMPATIBLE WITH BIPOLAR NE555 .VOLTAGE RANGE : +2V to +18V .HIGH OUTPUT CURRENT CAPABILITY SUPPLY CURRENT SPIKES REDUCED
.DURING OUTPUT TRANSITIONS .HIGH INPUT IMPEDANCE : 1012 W OUTPUT COMPATIBLE WITH TTL,CMOS
AND LOGIC MOS
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 16, 2011, 08:25:23 AM
Hi Rob, I made the last 'white' version before you posted the 'black' one. I made the connection between pin 4 and 5. Can you please post a 'white version' again of the newest vero layout? (Although they look very cool in black!) ;D I always print them out so i can make notes on them and have them on my work table. With all the black that's difficult  (and it uses so much ink). I'm gonna go back to it and fix it! I've never thrown a project aside just because i couldn't get it to work!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 16, 2011, 08:27:28 AM
ok 'white vero ' coming up...give me a minute or 2 ok.....remember that jumper under the ic first ok...i always put the paper on my window to look through reversed to see where to cut...i use the tip of a 5mm drill to cut holes..watch for tiny burrs though..the tiniest of burrs will stop it working ok.. :icon_wink: here ya go!.(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/ts555cnverowhite.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: hackertronix on February 16, 2011, 04:11:38 PM
@servaas, strange..shame.....ive tried 8 of the same ts555 with no problems...in fact ive just built 4 complete boards ready to go in boxes..and all are tested and fine..so i dont see what the problem can be... :icon_eek:

@hackertronix...as you can see some people have problems with this, i dont know why..so i suggest you breadboard it first ok..(make sure your leads in /out are plugged in)otherwise it wont work ok......its simple enough to do ok..

btw, you must use a cmos 555....yes it is a timer... but not a standard 555 ok........the standard 555 ticks....or gets hot....


i will put up the updated schematic ok, so there is no confusion issues...........

edit: heres the schematic ok ...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%202011.pdf

while i admit i have not looked up a datasheet on a 555 cmos, i assume since it is cmos, it is digital?
with a regular 555, could a disk-cap soak up the tick?
what is the actual number on the 555 cmos, so i can look up the datasheet?
are the pins pretty much the same as an analog 555??
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Hides-His-Eyes on February 16, 2011, 04:35:10 PM
CMOS isn't always "digital"; google 'CMOS linear mode'
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: hackertronix on February 16, 2011, 05:02:28 PM
CMOS isn't always "digital"; google 'CMOS linear mode'

ahhh....will google!  :o

i assume, since cmos as i understand it usually means binary, 1= =v, 0=-v...that they would ALL be digital!

hence my name, i am hacking my way through electronics, picking up nuggets of gold as i stumble along. i really desire to go back to school for this though!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 16, 2011, 06:13:20 PM
Allright! Got it working again! ;D Weird though: I removed the pin 4&5 connection. It started working again, but with the strange startup method by touching the underside of the board. Then I put test pens on pin 4&5 and it started right away. Resoldered the connection again, and it worked.  ??? Still the slight ticking issue! And it also works with no jacks connected.
Anymore ideas for getting rid of the ticking?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 16, 2011, 06:22:25 PM
Allright! Got it working again! ;D Weird though: I removed the pin 4&5 connection. It started working again, but with the strange startup method by touching the underside of the board. Then I put test pens on pin 4&5 and it started right away. Resoldered the connection again, and it worked.  ??? Still the slight ticking issue! And it also works with no jacks connected.
Anymore ideas for getting rid of the ticking?


Have a look at the ideas suggested in this layout (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87322.msg755855#msg755855) (and the discussion leading up to it).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 17, 2011, 05:53:51 AM
@hackertronix...hmmmm you may be correct..

in the datasheet pin 4 goes to voltage...

pin 5 has a 0.01uf cap.....i'll try it soon, ....



bit of a sad day today, my 16 year old cat 'cooney' has to go to the vets...it dont look good for him..poor old guy....gutted... :'(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 17, 2011, 06:06:19 AM
So so sorry Rob... pet him from me...  :icon_cry:

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 17, 2011, 07:30:46 AM
thanks man.. i will.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 17, 2011, 07:41:17 AM
thanks man.. i will.

16 that's something for a cat, isn't it. I'm more of a canine guy, but yeah, pet him from me to (but use your right hand when petting him for me).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 09:34:06 AM
cheers guys...

he didnt make it....poor old fella...me and my missus cried like babies when he passed on......very upsetting... :icon_cry:

@perrow, 16 yeah. he had a good innings, we had him from a kitten, he had a great character and will be sorely missed...

we planted a flowering evergreen today in his honour...r.i.p. 'cooney boy'......

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 18, 2011, 09:42:04 AM
It's losing family, nothing different except these little guys never once f*cked you over.  :-\
We've got three cats right now, all around ten years old. Hopefully they'll go on until they're 20 *fingers crossed*

/Magnus
 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 09:51:37 AM
It's losing family, nothing different except these little guys never once f*cked you over.  :-\
We've got three cats right now, all around ten years old. Hopefully they'll go on until they're 20 *fingers crossed*

/Magnus
 

so true,for those very reasons...not ever @#$%ing me over,no arguing, no demands, except a bit of food and a stroke etc, he was a great calming influence and company....

we have a fat old tabby girl too ' gertrude'...she seems a little lost too at the moment....

hope yours stay safe n well ... :icon_wink:



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 18, 2011, 10:06:27 AM
Thanks, they're hibernating in our flat, waiting for spring and the countryside.
I guess cats are sort of like tiny tremolos but maybe we should get back on topic...  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 10:12:08 AM
yep!...ok back on topic... :icon_wink:


has anyone tried the 0.01uf /10nf cap pin 5 to ground..and pin 4 to v...? if not i'll give it a go today...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on February 18, 2011, 10:14:30 AM
cheers guys...

he didnt make it....poor old fella...me and my missus cried like babies when he passed on......very upsetting... :icon_cry:

@perrow, 16 yeah. he had a good innings, we had him from a kitten, he had a great character and will be sorely missed...

we planted a flowering evergreen today in his honour...r.i.p. 'cooney boy'......



Know the feeling.

Will we see a memorial pedal?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: vendettav on February 18, 2011, 10:14:41 AM
can anybody give me a russian name for LDR??? the stores here in Armenia work in russian or armenian.. didnt know what LDR means...
or can anybody help me with wiring a transistor as a switch to kill the signal??
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 18, 2011, 10:19:03 AM
Maybe you could look for photocell resistor or something similar?

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 10:23:33 AM
@perrow...no, i wouldnt go that far!...might etch him a little plaque though!.. :icon_wink:


@vendetta...as magnus suggested.. (say it with a russian accent though!) :icon_wink:

no idea on the tranny switch....... :P


tried the 10nf on pin 5 to -  and pin 4 to pin 8...works ok....no retriggering needed...

but i had no clicking in the first place anyway.. ::)


just for the hell of it here it is breadboarded...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20breadboarded..pdf

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 18, 2011, 12:04:47 PM
I'm so sorry about your cat Rob!

Is this last mod to fix the clicking?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 12:11:24 PM
thanks man... :icon_cool:

it may do.....and any retriggering problems people may have...

i honestly dont have any ticking on mine without the mod though....i have it on my breadboard now , and it behaves really well...going for hours...

the only issue i ever had with ticking was when i tried using superbright leds...they made it noisey as hell..i changed them to standard leds..5mm/3mm .and it sorted it.........

the only other cure was the 9v > 2.2k > pin 8..

checkout the breadboard pdf on my last post....thats exactly how i have it...^^^^^^
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 18, 2011, 01:39:22 PM
Rob, there's probably something wrong with your dropbox, cause i can't download the pdf. Nothing happens.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 18, 2011, 01:47:04 PM
it works for me...ill try again ok....anyone else having problems seeing it?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20breadboarded..pdf

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20breadboarded..pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem%20breadboarded..pdf)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 18, 2011, 04:28:24 PM
Sorry, my fault. In some bizarre way i can't  download it on one pc, but on my other pc i can... ??? WTF???

Edit: googled: if i put ?dl=1 at the end of the url it works.

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pazuzu on February 18, 2011, 05:56:44 PM
wow, this is cool. this is the first time i come in here (this thread). i am going to build this tonight.

by the way deadastronaut, how did you come to hanging out here at this forum? i remember i remember commenting on your lm386 distortion video on youtube waaay back telling you to come here, or were you already on at that point?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 18, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
Rob, I tried your last mods, but nothing changed to the ticking. Or should i remove the pin 4-5 connection? When i connected pin 4-5 (still connected) with pin 8 it blinked half tempo. This could be a cool feature on a stompswitch!  ;DI believe the Schaller trem had that too and the Fulltone Supatrem.
Still ticking though... :(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on February 18, 2011, 07:44:16 PM
Rob, I tried your last mods, but nothing changed to the ticking. Or should i remove the pin 4-5 connection? When i connected pin 4-5 (still connected) with pin 8 it blinked half tempo. This could be a cool feature on a stompswitch!  ;DI believe the Schaller trem had that too and the Fulltone Supatrem.
Still ticking though... :(
They did have double/half speed features, but neither used the 555 chip nor implemented anything remotely close to the way this circuit is. Just a point of note. the supatrem parallels the other half of the dual gang rate pot to half the resistance and instantly double the rate.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 18, 2011, 08:37:31 PM
I know they're totally different designs. Could connecting 4,5 and 8 harm the 555 though? Otherwise i'm including it in my build. You can get a cool effect if you hold a chord and press the switch  to double the speed for one bar or so  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 19, 2011, 12:55:20 PM
@pazuzu..man that was a while back now!...i remember someone on here sending me an email, saying that one of my projects were being discussed...and would i care to join in..so i did!..and have been on here ever since.. 8).


@servaas, i really cant see how your getting ticking still?...ive built 4 of these with no problems at all...(unboxed too)......the only thing i can think of ,is it may be your ldr's value...have you tried a different one?..

also what led for the ldr are you using?...


i noticed the speed rate difference with the pin 5 off....but  i wouldnt do that or it might not want to start/retrigger again.. :icon_wink:...

thats the only reason i connected 4-5 together was because of that power on triggering problem...

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 19, 2011, 01:39:57 PM
I will desolder the LDR and check if it still ticks... The led for the LDR is a normal red 5mm. I tried a low current one, but that ticked too. I tried disconnecting the indicator led (normal red 3mm) but also no change. It seemed to tick less loud when i had the led resistors connected, but then the depth was less, due to less brightness of the led.

Am i the only one who experiences ticking in this project???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 19, 2011, 01:56:05 PM
your probabaly not the only one..lots of people had this problem before the 2.2k power tweak.... :icon_wink:

did you end up trying a pot from the 9v to the pin8 to see if you could lower the voltage to stop any clicking...im just thinking that the 'tolerance' on your ic may be slighlty different...

'tolerance on even the 2.2k may be an issue too...just a thought.

if it was going to tick it would definately do it without the depth pot...and just a wire from the ldr to ground...this is how i have it at the moment and its fine..

funny i bought some ldr's from a guy in holland recently off ebay...and they are fine too...

as an experiment today i wired 3 hi bright 5m leds off the 3 pin to ground..and had the normal hi bright red for ldr..and it still doesnt tick..i though it would.....but no!.

the only time it ticks is when i connect pin8 directly to 9v...so i would tinker with that 2.2k area with a pot if anything...

tell you what i'll do...

i'll post all my pin voltages ok.....and we can see whats happening from there ok...see if there are any major differences...i'm using a 9v psu daisy chain type by the way..not a battery..


i turned the speed rate full so i could get a steady measurement ok...ts555cn.

pin 1 = 0.00
pin2 =1.13v
pin3 =1.5v
pin4 =1.43v
pin5 =1.43v  (4-5 connected)
pin6 =1.13v
pin7 =1.13v
pin8 =2.19v

my psu puts out 9.11volts.

my 2.2k is actually 2.17k...(due to tolerance etc)

my 47uf is a 16v model

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 19, 2011, 06:54:58 PM
My voltages are about the same. Pot in place of the 2.2K: still ticks at any voltage. Removed ldr: still ticking. Hi bright led: still ticking ??? :-\:( >:(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 19, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
thats weird man......i dont know what to suggest... if the voltages are the same etc.. ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

i dont know how it could still tick without the ldr either...... ??? ??? ???


so how are you wiring the audio without an ldr?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 19, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
Without the ldr its straight thru. in to out.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 19, 2011, 09:21:38 PM
@servaas, have you tried this on breadboard first...?

i just dont get why that is....ive been trying my best to find a way to get mine to tick..ironically...but it only will with the higher voltage...hmmmm.......

if i dont make a connection to ground with the other leg of the ldr it ticks like mad....is it being grounded..silly question i know!.. :icon_rolleyes:

all my grounds are tied together...power and signal...


has anyone else got this problem...i'd be interested to know...?????????....


ive even just tried this circuit..its a fade in /out led circuit, i rigged up the led/ldr and i added the essential 2.2k and it doesnt tick either....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/led%20fader.pdf



have you a clear picture of it...just out of curiosity?..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pazuzu on February 20, 2011, 07:11:55 AM
@pazuzu..man that was a while back now!...i remember someone on here sending me an email, saying that one of my projects were being discussed...and would i care to join in..so i did!..and have been on here ever since.. 8).

you're my favorite member.(http://wimetal.org/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)

seriously though, someone needs to give you an award for this tremolo. it's epic on my breadboard. also really cool with the beginner boost built right into the circuit.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on February 20, 2011, 08:09:07 AM
I don't have a breadboard. I know: silly! :o
I built it on vero from the last layout you posted. I always use star ground. Just got an idea: what if i try shielded signal cables? I'll try that.
Picture maybe later...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 21, 2011, 05:15:24 AM
@pazuzu...thanks man!.. :icon_redface: :icon_mrgreen:  does your tick at all on your bboard?..



@servaas, yep invest in a breadboard,2 jacks and a dc socket and fix em permanently to ya board...i have 3 large boards setup this way for different projects..and tinkering...i couldnt get by without them!.

i bread everything before i commit to building...saves money and time and if you like it box it..if ya dont pull it all off... :icon_wink:

i dont know about shielded wiring on this, but it may help,.....btw out of curiosity...what guitar are you using?..single coils...humbuckers...i'm using an ibanez rg470 humbuckers!..

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P210211_10.16.JPG)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P210211_10.18.JPG)
yellow tip in/ blue tip out....

i like this setup i can use my board straight away as a pedal...i should put a bypass switch in there too ideally to hear unity etc..., but i never get round to it.. :icon_rolleyes:



@all.

ive been working on a fading led version with a wah circuit, so we get a sine wave too...more flowing etc...just add 1x2n3904...

the basic ts555 fader circuit is this..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/led%20fader.pdf

heres a soundclip of the fader tremolo..no depth control just speed...would be a nice tiny addition to any pedal with just one knob..very smooth sweep..

i turned the gain on full on my mixer at the end of the clip  so you can hear that it doesn't click.. :icon_wink:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/fadertest1.wav

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 21, 2011, 08:55:30 AM
Very very nice Rob!  :)
I'll be building this or something very like it next week as soon as the parts arrive.
I may even build it into an old wah shell and make the speed foot controlled.
It won't be tiny any more but still  ;D

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 21, 2011, 09:00:09 AM
sounds like a  cool idea!..

i wish i had an old empty wah case to play about with... :icon_cool:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on February 27, 2011, 04:14:09 PM
ive even just tried this circuit..its a fade in /out led circuit, i rigged up the led/ldr and i added the essential 2.2k and it doesnt tick either....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/led%20fader.pdf

I've been looking for something just like this that can fade in and out. Good find Rob!  :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 27, 2011, 04:16:48 PM
yeah its a great little circuit...less choppy etc...lots of possibilities for it... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Manny on February 27, 2011, 04:18:14 PM
yeah its a great little circuit...less choppy etc...lots of possibilities for it... :icon_wink:

Yep, it's sat on my breadboard now waiting to be abused!   :icon_razz:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 27, 2011, 04:19:07 PM
ha ha,...abuse away..... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: vendettav on February 28, 2011, 06:00:43 AM
so what LDR should i get>?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 28, 2011, 06:01:42 AM
get one that has 1MEG dark resistance...should be ok.. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 28, 2011, 01:20:29 PM
the tiny trem seems like is going to have be slightly bigger... :o

gurner warned about this a while back..(i know)......its a great trem..but now i'm getting fussy...

when the speed is increased the volume drops....especially when distorted....arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

heres a soundclip....full depth...just adjusting speed ok...nothing else..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/voltest.wav

hmmmm....looks like theres going to have to be some kind of buffer/boost  or 'compensator' circuit in there.....arghhhhhhhhhhhhh


edit:..thinking about it...(over dinner)...why not just whack a boost in there and have it as a boost pedal too... switchable...2 birds with one stone....and 2 pedals in one....thinking aloud!...hmmmm



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on February 28, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
the tiny trem seems like is going to have be slightly bigger... :o

gurner warned about this a while back..(i know)......its a great trem..but now i'm getting fussy...

when the speed is increased the volume drops....especially when distorted....arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

heres a soundclip....full depth...just adjusting speed ok...nothing else..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/voltest.wav

hmmmm....looks like theres going to have to be some kind of buffer/boost  or 'compensator' circuit in there.....arghhhhhhhhhhhhh


edit:..thinking about it...(over dinner)...why not just whack a boost in there and have it as a boost pedal too... switchable...2 birds with one stone....and 2 pedals in one....thinking aloud!...hmmmm

It doesn't seem to drop the volume that much.  Some, sure, but not too badly.  Considering the simplicity of the circuit, I'd leave it as is really.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 28, 2011, 03:23:27 PM
yeah joe i agree, its great..especially on clean stuff..nice n subtle..... but its very noticable with pre dirt......and i quite like the fast hard stutter too..but needs just a bit more poke to it......hmmmm... i'll have a think.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 03:29:31 PM
how about just a resistor in the bypassed signal to compensate?

*edit* don't let it get much bigger - minimal modular building blocks are the way to go. also, if you like dirt and stutter have you played with 4093 cmos gated fuzz? 386 driving a 4093 with one cap and one pot. like this (http://books.google.com/books?id=zGh0MRTYC9UC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=fuzzy+dicer&source=bl&ots=KCLGeBNzfY&sig=vdZZkulsWdq7qJMmrKFoSoLos7U&hl=en&ei=bVHsS7H4A4G78gbHrti3BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=fuzzy%20dicer&f=false).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on February 28, 2011, 03:35:20 PM
How about a simple boost and a dual pot simultaneously raising the volume as the speed increases?

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 28, 2011, 04:10:36 PM
Just to chime i a little here (I find this thread fascinating...and don't take this the wrong way, the probs encountered are to be embraced/welcomed as we all learn from the quest to solve).....

ok, just wanted to float a concept here - IMHO, this 'tremolo' is actually more akin to a kill switch vs a traditional tremolo.

(warning: oversimplification for the sake of putting a point across ensues!)

kill switch - swings between inifinte resistance  &  a dead short....the load as seen by the source changes (a lot!) - current is  the affected one here.

traditional tremolo - swings between full voltage and no voltage - or variations within those limits (think 'potentiometer' moving up and down quickly - the wiper being the output), the load as seen by the signal source stays the same - voltage is the affected one here.

the ldr in the tiny tremolo is acting like a polite kill switch...it's not infinite, nor is it short....but bounces back and forth somewhere in between these boundaries. There'll always be some source  signal loading  (albeit not too much impact at the dark end of thing, *if* a high dark resistance ldr is used), equally the signal will never fully get down to nothing...close but not fully killed  (IMHO it's a bit of an aural illusion.... a similar analogy being an optical illusion to do with your TV ....when it is switched off the screen is actually only dark grey...but when you turn it on, there and watch something you'll swear there 'appear' to be deep, deep blacks in there!)

Anyway, I'm rambling....I'll get me coat!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 04:15:04 PM
i hadn't actually really looked at the circuit yet!  :icon_redface:  will do now. had only really glanced at it and assumed the ldr was acting as a volume pot. will look again.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 28, 2011, 04:28:38 PM
i hadn't actually really looked at the circuit yet!  :icon_redface:  will do now. had only really glanced at it and assumed the ldr was acting as a volume pot. will look again.

It's defintely not acting like a volume pot (which is a potential divider - with three connections, these being input, wiper & ground) ...the LDR is acting like a rheostat (remember an ldr only has two connections, so it can't act like a traditional volume pot on its own) - to help you visualize, I drew up an equivalent cct - see my reply 337 on this earlier page...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87322.320

with the guitar volume pot fully turned up, there's no potential divider - so the ldr simply acts like the aformentioned kill switch - the pickup signal 'stacks its hand'  when the ldr's resistance is too low for the pickup's output drive ability .....turn your guitar's volume knob down a bit an then there will be a 'top resistance' present in the ldr feed chain, and the overall vol pot/ldr chain willl begin to act partially like a potential divider (ie a vol control - but probably not anywhere like the volume extremeties you'd likely want)...but in this scenario you've lost signal level as presented to your amp.

It's a conundrum....but as I've said before, if it gives you the required outcome/effect who cares?!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 04:49:04 PM
am i being completely stupid in thinking that placing a small value resistor in line would solve this?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 28, 2011, 04:51:11 PM
am i being completely stupid in thinking that placing a small value resistor in line would solve this?

alas no, it'll sort of help out (but not to any degree of satisfaction IMHO) and there is a 'cost' (loss of signal magnitude).

What you've said can be emulated very simply & quickly....

.....turn your guitar's volume knob down a bit an then there will be a 'top resistance' present in the ldr feed chain, and the overall vol pot/ldr chain willl begin to act partially like a potential divider (ie a vol control - but probably not anywhere like the volume extremeties you'd likely want)...but in this scenario you've lost signal level as presented to your amp.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 05:03:45 PM
thanks for the info. possibly related re ticking - been playing with led/ldr combo's a bit recently and noticed ticking can happen in completely isolated circuits (eg waving a flashing bike light near an independently powered guitar processing ldr circuit) depending on proximity of led/ldr. is there any kind of interference that could be being picked up from the charge arcing in the led or am i thinking out of my hat, so to speak? or is it just the sound of the ldr 'gulping' at the sudden change in resistance? (and ldr response time)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 28, 2011, 05:11:40 PM
thanks for the info. possibly related re ticking - been playing with led/ldr combo's a bit recently and noticed ticking can happen in completely isolated circuits (eg waving a flashing bike light near a ldr circuit) depending on proximity of led/ldr. is there any kind of interference that could be being picked up from the charge arcing in the led or am i thinking out of my hat, so to speak?

I've mixed thoughts on the ticking - I guess someone really needs to isolate if it's the LDR side or the circuit side  that's the cause of the ticking (or possibly a bit of both!)

In order to do that, somewhere in or around that reply #337 I suggested emulating the LDR with a manual 1M pot (configured as a two connector rheostat & *not* as a traditional volume knob!) & turning it fully high/low as fast as possible while strimming the guitar via an amp (no mean feat!)   - at least this way it can be seen if a lot of folk's ticking problems are related to the pickup current being whacked about by the wildly rapidly differing load the LDR presents - because the only way of getting to the bottom of the ticking problem is to establish where the problem is coming from in the first place! (although the gnat in the ' LDR switching pickup current too fastly" ointment argument is those who don't have ticking problems!)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 05:15:59 PM
(although the gnat in the ' LDR switching pickup current too fastly" ointment argument is those who don't have ticking problems!)

oops, editing for clarity as you posted... re above quote - everyone is presenting slightly different loads (gtr/pickup) to the circuit, no?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on February 28, 2011, 05:17:13 PM
(although the gnat in the ' LDR switching pickup current too fastly" ointment argument is those who don't have ticking problems!)

oops, editing for clarity as you posted... re above quote - everyone is presenting slightly different loads (gtr/pickup) to the circuit, no?

I tend to look at it the other way round  :icon_biggrin: - everyone is presenting a similar 'wildly variating load' (the LDR) to their pickup with this circuit - and therefore (by & large) are likely to experience the same results (or issues)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on February 28, 2011, 05:28:08 PM
ok... so much to learn... i've most recently experienced this ldr ticking sound when playing with filters - specifically ray wilsons 741 odd filter from the wsg but also with other, mostly simple passive, volume and tone circuits involving ldr's and completely disconnected flashing led circuits.

*edit* i don't have a scope or simulator and so tend to (ahem) work on a 'live' breadboard connected to gtr and amp at all times so i can hear component changes and listen to different parts of the circuit by probing with the output jack.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on February 28, 2011, 08:10:27 PM

 tend to (ahem) work on a 'live' breadboard connected to gtr and amp at all times so i can hear component changes and listen to different parts of the circuit by probing with the output jack.

me too... :icon_redface:

@gurner...good explanation, aural illusion etc...


ok,so ive had a little drink think...

a booster at the in/out should solve this shouldnt it?..as long as the boost is clean and  can push out unity level when slow and more than unity level when fast where it needs it...  it should be ok...do you think?

or am i being a  dumbass again... ;D...(yes rob you are..again!).. :P

guess i'll just bread a boost and run it into the pedal and see how it goes...its quick enough to try...report back soon...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 01, 2011, 11:26:59 AM
right, ive got a nice clean boost together...sounds nice..brightens it slightly too..great.

but... :icon_rolleyes:

where to put it in the scheme of things..because it only needs it on the actual on....not off..hmm..

and the way it has to be wired , there is no place to do it..without it being switched too!..i guess!..hmmmm again... :icon_rolleyes:

more thinking i think... ::)

hmmmm....might just leave as is after all... :P
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 01, 2011, 11:36:53 AM
right, ive got a nice clean boost together...sounds nice..brightens it slightly too..great.

but... :icon_rolleyes:

where to put it in the scheme of things..because it only needs it on the actual on....not off..hmm..

and the way it has to be wired , there is no place to do it..without it being switched too!..i guess!..hmmmm again... :icon_rolleyes:

more thinking i think... ::)

hmmmm....might just leave as is after all... :P

Well, we could go the whole nine yards and make it true bypass ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 01, 2011, 11:41:50 AM
ha ha...

i just thought, if the output went to a toggle then it could go

> out
-
>boost..volume pot...

hmmm...means a pot and a switch though!...i dont know...spent too long on this to be arsed i think...just a thought though!.. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on March 10, 2011, 05:07:09 PM
I just breadboarded the fader version using an NE555 and it's blinking away merrily on my desk  ;D
Just wondering what voltages you are feeding your led(s), with the 2k2 resistor applied my rather slow multimeter swings between 1 and just under 2 volts.
It seems a bit faint but I don't want to burn the LED out...?

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 10, 2011, 06:05:23 PM
I just breadboarded the fader version using an NE555 and it's blinking away merrily on my desk  ;D
Just wondering what voltages you are feeding your led(s), with the 2k2 resistor applied my rather slow multimeter swings between 1 and just under 2 volts.
It seems a bit faint but I don't want to burn the LED out...?

/Magnus


With a 2.2k my 555 didn't blink, had to go down to 820R. Killed two leds in the process, while testing without resistors :(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on March 11, 2011, 03:51:19 AM
With a 2.2k my 555 didn't blink, had to go down to 820R. Killed two leds in the process, while testing without resistors :(

Thanks Perrow, which layout was that?
I did mine according to Rob's own LED Fader schematic. As this is feeding 9v to the IC and the transistor separately they could get different voltages although I don't know what I would achieve  :)
Now I've just stuck the 2k2 immediately after the battery so the whole board is getting the reduced voltage. The LED  does seem a bit faint although it might work, I haven't tried the ldr/audio yet.

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 11, 2011, 04:01:40 AM
With a 2.2k my 555 didn't blink, had to go down to 820R. Killed two leds in the process, while testing without resistors :(

Thanks Perrow, which layout was that?
I did mine according to Rob's own LED Fader schematic. As this is feeding 9v to the IC and the transistor separately they could get different voltages although I don't know what I would achieve  :)
Now I've just stuck the 2k2 immediately after the battery so the whole board is getting the reduced voltage. The LED  does seem a bit faint although it might work, I haven't tried the ldr/audio yet.

/Magnus


hi magnus,

i was using a 'hi bright' clear lens  green and blue...at same time as i am now on the pulsewah too...works ok...

using the led fader circuit in my gallery.. :icon_wink:



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 11, 2011, 05:32:48 AM
Thanks Perrow, which layout was that?
I did mine according to Rob's own LED Fader schematic. As this is feeding 9v to the IC and the transistor separately they could get different voltages although I don't know what I would achieve  :)
Now I've just stuck the 2k2 immediately after the battery so the whole board is getting the reduced voltage. The LED  does seem a bit faint although it might work, I haven't tried the ldr/audio yet.

/Magnus

It's still on my breadboard, sort of like any of the layouts posted in this thread :) Been messing around with it a bit since I had some trouble coming to the conclusion that the 2.2k was the problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: mrsuspend on March 12, 2011, 07:03:51 PM
Well, I've tested the fader version now (in the dark, very atmospheric) and...

It works very well!  ;D
No ticking when the grounds were all properly connected. And this with an NE555 too...
I tried a few LEDs and it seems clear blue has the least volume drop, however the non-clear red had the smoothest slow action. Guess I'll just have to try a slew of them and find the best compromise.
I did find the speed range a bit on the fast side so I swapped the 4k7 pot for a 10k and stuck a 1k resistor in the path to put a cap on the top speed.

/Magnus
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 13, 2011, 11:35:51 AM
glad you got it going magnus..... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Der Groovemeister on March 13, 2011, 07:23:08 PM
Hey Rob, I grabbed the sucker again after tossing it in a corner from 'ticking' frustration and tried it again with isolated grounds. The pot connected to the ldr is now only connected to the signal ground. The batt neg is not connected to the input jack anymore, but straight to the board. No more ticking!!!  ;D
Another weird thing is that when i turn down the volume on the guitar a notch the tremolo effect gets choppier! ??? But i can live with that. Extra feature!  ;) I like equipment you have to tame to use it.  :D
I also tried it with a buffer in front because it sucks tone a little, but then it just doesn't trem at all.  ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 13, 2011, 07:45:29 PM
good glad you got it without the ticking though!.. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 16, 2011, 08:59:39 PM
thanks rob and everyone for so much hard work....man, a long thread, but i think i've learned so much my brain hurts!  :icon_mrgreen:

tomorrow i will attempt this circuit, it'll be my 9th build so far...if i get it working, i'll report back about it.
if not...

well, see ya in a month or so while i try to debug it! :icon_eek:

seriously...this looks like it's gonna be a blast, thanks!
peace
jimi

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 04:37:40 AM
cheers jimi. good luck man!...


my head hurts too...everyday.... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on March 17, 2011, 08:47:31 AM
my head hurts too...everyday.... :icon_wink:

It doesn't count if it's from drinking  :P
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 08:58:05 AM
my head hurts too...everyday.... :icon_wink:

It doesn't count if it's from drinking  :P

hmmmm....very true!... :-\
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 09:57:50 AM
lol...i swear, after reading this whole thread last nite, my eyes are damn near dripping down my cheeks... :icon_eek:
this thread is bloody epic!!

thanks...just up, gonna make some coffee, then i'm hitting the veroboard for a couple hours....wish me luck, mate~

the youtube demo was one of the nicer sounding trems i've heard...if i can get that i'll be ecstatic for days. it kinda reminded me of the trem
sound my old sunn 1200s had about 30 years ago..(i think it was a 1200s, it's been like,....30 years or so...lol)

anyways, off like a prom dress...."scrotus diem"....you guys deserve a break, so have a cold one and enjoy the day!
peace!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 10:09:51 AM
good luck man...i would breadboard it first...to get it going.

then use the vero from my gallery...thats the one to do....and works fine....

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/ts555cnvero.gif.html

off for a cold one now...cheers.. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 10:18:41 AM
thanks, mate...that's the one i was planning...but no breadboard yet, and a little too indigent to go buy one...so i'm gonna throw my hat in the ring, and blaze ahead and see what i can do!! after working on tube amps for years, if i run into a ticking problem, i think i'll find a way around it...lead dress can be crucial, sometimes it's as easy as just running the B+ related stuff close to the box, and keeping the audio separate...we'll see..lol

but hoist a pint or two for me, please...i don't drink anymore, but tend to like those who do!

happy saint patrick's day, now go enjoy some time off so your brain stops hurting!!
;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 10:27:12 AM
cool,... you know what your doing!....great!..

HAPPY PADDY'S DAY EVERYONE!...

 :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 10:29:28 AM
lmao....

just stick your fingers in your ears during the yoko parts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNwqV_HpMSE
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 10:37:21 AM
lmao....

just stick your fingers in your ears during the yoko parts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNwqV_HpMSE

@#$% YEAH..... :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 10:41:37 AM
great song...other than that useless thing shrieking next to john...lol :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: ??? :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 12:21:30 PM
ok, forgive my stupidity, but i AM a newbe...am i right to think the on/off and speed led's DON'T have to be mounted on the board? can i use twisted wires to fly them off, or do they need to be directly on the veroboard? everything is mounted but the led's and photoresistor and cmos chip at this point. also, can i just use a 9 v batt clip? i don't have the dc power jack, hate to go to rat shack for one part AGAIN, only to buy ANOTHER 40 bucks worth of parts!!!! :icon_rolleyes: :icon_biggrin:

dear lord, i think i'm becomming an addict... :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 17, 2011, 12:25:13 PM
ok, forgive my stupidity, but i AM a newbe...am i right to think the on/off and speed led's DON'T have to be mounted on the board? can i use twisted wires to fly them off, or do they need to be directly on the veroboard? everything is mounted but the led's and photoresistor and cmos chip at this point. also, can i just use a 9 v batt clip? i don't have the dc power jack, hate to go to rat shack for one part AGAIN, only to buy ANOTHER 40 bucks worth of parts!!!! :icon_rolleyes: :icon_biggrin:

dear lord, i think i'm becomming an addict... :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

yeah have them of board...the rate and on/off are just for the finished box...

yep 9v clip is ok too....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 12:29:05 PM
sweet...thanks mate!! back to my addiction...lol ;) ;D :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 03:26:36 PM
so far, so good....all that's left to do is hook up the input output jacks...tested it statically with no audio yet, all works except the on/off led...probably cuz it isn't grounded yet...wish me luck! :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: neutronarmy on March 17, 2011, 03:27:12 PM
I've run into an issue. The circuit seems so straightforward that I went straight to veroboard. I assembled the pedal and it didn't work (classic response, right). I did notice one peculiar thing: the yellow rate LED came on for a split second right when the cord was put into the input jack and thus power applied. I noticed I could replicate the effect by taking the cord out, waiting a few seconds, and plugging the cord back in. Assuming I had messed up the layout, I went to breadboard and started over. Now, after assembling on breadboard, I get the same response. Immediately after I apply power the 5mm red LED (part of the vactrol) and the 3mm yellow rate LED flash for a second, and then stay unlit.

I'm using a Hitachi HA17555 timer that Futurlec had listed as a CMOS 555 (here's the datasheet: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classiccmp.org%2Frtellason%2Fchipdata%2Fha17555.pdf&rct=j&q=Hitachi%20HA17555&ei=Yl-CTfHKGs6htwf2tuneBA&usg=AFQjCNHYgNEUr-Xj15Q0fFpv1sW-rrvasg&cad=rja (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classiccmp.org%2Frtellason%2Fchipdata%2Fha17555.pdf&rct=j&q=Hitachi%20HA17555&ei=Yl-CTfHKGs6htwf2tuneBA&usg=AFQjCNHYgNEUr-Xj15Q0fFpv1sW-rrvasg&cad=rja)). It seems to have the proper pinout and all. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 04:37:39 PM
f*** me, i've got an issue or two, too now checked the vero carefully, have checked for continuity and everything....it WORKS, but i'm not getting a "tick", i'm getting a BAM...sounds almost like an electronic bass drum,  the rate will change with the speed pot, and the guitar signal is being tremoloed..but the whak whak whak is frustrating to say the least. it DOES make a great techno style bass drum, lol..the other thing is, the status led for off/on doesn't work at all...i believe there may be a problem with the layout, the last one, anyways that rob suggested i follow. it's downright weird! i'm gonna check my tube amp books and see what it reccomends for this problem...and will get back to the thread if i find a solution. it COULD be lead dress...as i used twisted pair wire for the in/out jacks....it could also be that the leads are too long that i'm using. i tried it with my marshall and twin, same thing, clean or dirty. i used a radio shack cmos 555 timer, this one: tlc555 low-power timer ic...don't tell me i used the one where pins 4&5 aren't supposed to be connected!! lol...or grounded? i've tried shunting a 1000 pf cap all over the place, in a couple spots of the circuit, it changes the speed a little, but that's it.
very weird! also, noticed i like the depth pot cranked, could i just eliminate it? do i need to sub a resistor there or something? i checked all the soldering several times, and even ran a dremel with a cutoff wheel between the vero strips to make sure everything is separated...but absolutely no difference. bloody maddening!!
gotta go to a doctor appointment, will check in later mates...thanks in advance for any advice!
peace,
jimi
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 04:39:32 PM
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=44584&g2_serialNumber=2)

this is the layout i used...if it makes any difference!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 06:26:59 PM
went back to radio shack...they also have another 555 timer chip, gonna try it in the existing circuit and see if the problem goes away...
more later... ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 07:32:25 PM
tried the other rat shack 555, doesn't work at all. tried lifting pins 4&5...no difference. tried shorting them to ground, as i seem to recall reading in this thread...no difference.
tried the original chip again, and the above tricks...doesn't work, tho shorting the pins to ground does make the led's other than the in/out one light up much brighter.
the circuit definitely works...but i suspect that lead dress has a lot to do with the issues i'm having, as i made them rather long to make it easier to wire up. wondering if the flying leads to the rate and status led's are contributing to the problem. :icon_redface:
i checked inside tube amps by torres, just to read a little about vibrato ticking...said to try a .01 mfd cap across the large resistor in a fender circuit. i'll try it, but doubt it will matter.

one other weird thing i noticed, is it definitely matters which jack is used for input and output...one is out of phase, and the effect is much weaker!!

i suspect that trying to make a better mousetrap is what's got things messed up. i'm gonna try and "stupify" the circuit, and see if something closer to deadastronaut's original layout will work. i don't need a rate led all that much, tho it's cool to watch...and will try a true bypass to see if that matters, but i don't think it will.

worst case scenario, it's a hell of a techno bass drum.
;)

anyways...gonna go play with it some, see what i can come up with...if anybody has any ideas, would be very appreciated.

curious...do you think maybe the size of the caps are doing this? it almost sounds like when a tube amp motorboats....wondering if maybe i got the size of the caps wrong? the two electrolytics are in microfarads, aren't they?

man...my brain hurts again...or would, if i had one. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 09:10:29 PM
lead dress definitely made a diff, but i accidentally shorted something or something, i dunno, now tho the light still flashes, it has no effect on the audio whatsoever. gonna try rob's original, see if that works. if it doesn't, i give up for now... :icon_confused:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 17, 2011, 10:57:43 PM
sorry for so many posts...i got it working, no ticks, clicks or tribal techno drums. i can't get the status led to work, i think there's a glitch in the layout, too tired to keep looking.
but what i found was...make the leads on the ldr and led as short as possible, and shrink wrap together facing each other. lead length didn't seem to matter at all, i've got it sitting out of a box and it's working...i un-twisted the wires. go figure. it still wasn't working , tho the noise was gone. i connected a ground jumper from the input jack ground, to the battery ground (i didn't put a walwart plug in it) and wango...there it was, a sweet warm natural sounding pulse. tried it with a couple amp models in my cybertwin, with clean and high gain models, and it did it's thing with no discernable noise.

hope this info may help solve this bugger...
peace, and thanks to rob and everyone, i learned a lot from building this toy. rock on! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 18, 2011, 03:46:10 AM
I've run into an issue. The circuit seems so straightforward that I went straight to veroboard. I assembled the pedal and it didn't work (classic response, right). I did notice one peculiar thing: the yellow rate LED came on for a split second right when the cord was put into the input jack and thus power applied. I noticed I could replicate the effect by taking the cord out, waiting a few seconds, and plugging the cord back in. Assuming I had messed up the layout, I went to breadboard and started over. Now, after assembling on breadboard, I get the same response. Immediately after I apply power the 5mm red LED (part of the vactrol) and the 3mm yellow rate LED flash for a second, and then stay unlit.

I'm using a Hitachi HA17555 timer that Futurlec had listed as a CMOS 555 (here's the datasheet: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classiccmp.org%2Frtellason%2Fchipdata%2Fha17555.pdf&rct=j&q=Hitachi%20HA17555&ei=Yl-CTfHKGs6htwf2tuneBA&usg=AFQjCNHYgNEUr-Xj15Q0fFpv1sW-rrvasg&cad=rja (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classiccmp.org%2Frtellason%2Fchipdata%2Fha17555.pdf&rct=j&q=Hitachi%20HA17555&ei=Yl-CTfHKGs6htwf2tuneBA&usg=AFQjCNHYgNEUr-Xj15Q0fFpv1sW-rrvasg&cad=rja)). It seems to have the proper pinout and all. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I got the same thing. You're using the limit resistor on the 9V+, aren't you?

Install a trimmer (or a regular pot) there and find out just what value this resistor should be, I had to go down to 820R before mine started blinking.

Edit: Careful though, I blew two leds using too low resistance (zero resistance actually, but be careful).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 18, 2011, 06:09:43 AM
@jimi, phewwwwww....that was a journey eh?...success!... :icon_cool:

see, it can be done!..without a tick... :icon_wink:

this is why i strongly recommend 'breadboards'..... i bb everything!.



@neutron:  i tried various 555's and all ticked apart from the ts555cn...when it had a 2.2k on the power...

this may obviously vary due to tolerances or ic you are using etc...try what perrow suggested, to find 'that spot with a pot ' ok.





Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: neutronarmy on March 18, 2011, 08:05:19 AM
Thanks for the responses folks. I'll give that a shot today - good to hear the problem isn't some detrimental lack of understanding. I'll let you know the results! I'm excited.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 18, 2011, 08:54:04 AM
Thanks for the responses folks. I'll give that a shot today - good to hear the problem isn't some detrimental lack of understanding. I'll let you know the results! I'm excited.

I can totally relate to that, I've been in this thread from page one, and just recently breadboarded it (didn't have a breadboard before) and that non blinking led was totally frustrating. The problem was made even worse by the fact that without the resistor on the power, the leds died almost instantly.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 18, 2011, 10:27:36 AM
@jimi, phewwwwww....that was a journey eh?...success!... :icon_cool:

see, it can be done!..without a tick... :icon_wink:

this is why i strongly recommend 'breadboards'..... i bb everything!.



@neutron:  i tried various 555's and all ticked apart from the ts555cn...when it had a 2.2k on the power...

this may obviously vary due to tolerances or ic you are using etc...try what perrow suggested, to find 'that spot with a pot ' ok.







rob and everyone, thanks so much!

yah, it works perfect. i DID find two possible mistakes on the layout... i didn't use a dc jack, so i use a 9 volt battery clip wired to the b+ connection on the board, with a switch to break the battery ground at the circuit board ground. so that was a very slight modification...

the three things i had to do to make it work were...

add a ground strap from the input jack ground to circuit ground on the board...suddenly it stopped ticking and motorboating, and worked great!

next, the bypass led...on the layout, it looks like the anode is on the top, cathode on the bottom. this is backwards! also, there's enough current to just pop an led..i blew out about 5 of them before i figured it out. i used flying leads to a little piece of perfboard, and added a 4.7 k resistor  to limit the current...used a 1/4 watt one, and soldered it to the little piece of veroboard, then soldered the other end to (i think) the cathode side of the led...worked like a charm.

tried it with my twin, and again, my marshall...no ticking, no noise, just a really transparent, warm tremolo effect that kinda reminded me of a univibe a little bit in some circumstances.

if anyone else can't get it to work, but can see the led flashing inside the shrink wrap, try connecting audio and circuit ground, i bet it will work.

tried the other radio shack 555, no dice, no nothing...the led just lights and stays lit. if you're in the states, and go to radio shack, you need the one labeled tlc555 low power timer ic, linCMOS timer 8 pin DIP. part number 276-1718. and you should be good to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have to cut out to new york for the day, will try and post pics and some kind of demo when i get back...

if you're having probs with the circuit, try my suggestions, i hope they work for you...


the only other thing i noticed is when i turn my guitar down, it turns down QUICK with this circuit...so i imagine a tiny buffer at the input will do wonders...

but i don't know how to do that yet!


great circuit, fun toy, and a satisfying experience, rob....thanks again mate, especially for the patience while i sorted thru this!!

good luck, everyone...

peace,
jimi
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: neutronarmy on March 18, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Success! Thanks Perrow, Pinkjimiphoton, and deadastronaut for the help. 1.1k seems to be just about the right value for that Hitachi 555 if anyone else is using it. Thanks again deadstronaut for the excellent project.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 18, 2011, 12:13:11 PM
yay!...........

great stuff guys!.... :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 18, 2011, 11:09:32 PM
i just got back from new york, was showing it off to my bro kevin...he's blow away...lol.

glad i could help a little bit...try and do a demo and upload some pics tomorrow...it was pretty before i started trying to debug it, now not so much...alot of the leads to the board are tacked together in a very disorderly looking mess...but i don't care, sounds great!

anyways..again, thanks, and best of luck to everyone who builds this cool little gizmo!
peace,
jimi
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ankhe on March 22, 2011, 12:50:03 PM
Hi,
may I use a 27k-94k ldr? I can't find any lower value one, and I don't really want to order one via the Internet.
I was thinking, maybe putting it parallel with other resistor would do the trick?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 22, 2011, 03:31:14 PM
Try any and all ldrs you can get your hands on :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ppaappoo on March 22, 2011, 11:25:43 PM
hi after check out the first half of the thread, i'm lost. What is the final verified version of the tremolo pcb?

thanks
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 23, 2011, 06:22:04 AM
this is the version i ended up with....works fine, bit of a volume drop when on though ok...(top of this page)

breadboard it first...perrow did a pcb version in this thread somewhere...have a look...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87322.msg769565#msg769565
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 23, 2011, 09:35:37 AM
when i was trying to debug it, i ended up trying 3 or 4 photoresistors...the resistance range was from a bout 5 k in light up to about 15k, and it really didn't seem to matter much. hope that helps a little bit. i would imagine if you add a resistor in series or parallel to it, it shouldn't really matter too much!

the other thing i noticed is, if the ldr and led are touching, like in my original attempt, it clicks more...i put a slight space (oh, maybe a 16th of an inch) between them when i shrinkwrapped, and it stopped the ticking...i mean, even into a cranked up marshall with the gain pegged, i get no clicking or ticking at all now.

there IS a really slight volume drop when it's in, but i don't think it's too noticeable...
what i was wondering was, if we added a pull down resistor, something big like maybe a 1 meg from the input to ground if that would help with the signal loss?

all in all, tho, a really groovy pedal.

rob, could you suggest a buffering circuit to try and add to it? because it's shorting the signal to ground, is it better to buffer the in and out?

thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 23, 2011, 08:28:08 PM
i agree it could do with a boost in there....

i think, and i may be wrong...which isnt unusual, :icon_rolleyes:

but a buffer between the in/out on the pcb to the switch might work.(looking at the vero)..not sure if that would also boost the bypassed signal too though!..just thinking aloud..

any decent clean boost should be ok, ....take a look in the gallery for 'clean boost'....probably a small vero in there...

of course its another pot as well....cheers rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 23, 2011, 08:35:29 PM
lol...thanks rob...i am WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY TOO STUPID myself to figure it out, so i'll lurk till someone else does!!
 ;D ;D ;D

i'm wondering tho if it would need in AND out buffers? and would that change the tone?

if it changes it, heck, i'd rather live with the slight volume drop...this is about the sweetest sounding trem i've ever played thru!
:thu:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 23, 2011, 08:52:34 PM
hmmmm...im sure it would have to be between the in/out  and the switch....hmmmmmm......

maybe someone more knowledgable could chime in here on this.. :icon_wink:

glad your enjoying it though...cool. its nice to hear success stories on this...nice one .. :icon_cool:

i'm busy at the moment trying to suss out a sine wave schematic for my other current project...the 'pulsewah'....cant wait to get it going/finished..i love the sound of it.. :icon_twisted:
check it out...i built one on pcb..but the @#$%er ticked...so am approaching it from a different lfo..pulse..i'll get there one day...like the tiny trem these things take time to get right...ish.. :icon_mrgreen:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=88582.0
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Ratbones on March 25, 2011, 02:58:21 PM
So I've got this all thrown together finished and in an aluminum hammond style enclosure, but with a 4069 triangle wave LFO.

I've got a very quiet ticking and buzzing, which sucks... (Probably inherent in my LFO choice; I should've just gone with the 555 LFO). Anyhoo, I'm wondering what proper preocedure for enclosure grounding is. If I touch bare metal on the enclosure, it buzzes, which makes me think maybe I should ground it. This is my second pedal, so I'm new to this, and I've never really heard whether enclosure grounding is proper or not.

Advice?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 25, 2011, 04:32:57 PM
hey bro, just ground the circuit  to the ground lug on one of the jacks, and you should be good to go...and, if it's anything like the one i built, that should take care of the ticking, too..good luck! if ya still have issues, and are in the states, go to rat shack and get the proper 555, and you should be good to go! be careful, rat shack stocks two of them, both cmos, but only ONE works right in this circuit...it's somewhere on this page, maybe the one before it.

have fun!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 26, 2011, 12:53:35 PM
@drew, yeah ive tried lots of different lfo's on various things...and a lot of them had noise/tick issues..too many too remember... :icon_rolleyes:

stick with the cmos 555 and you should be ok... :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ppaappoo on March 26, 2011, 02:49:46 PM
HI, if you try to use an audio switch FET instead LED/LDR?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 26, 2011, 03:00:18 PM
hi pappoo

sounds interesting, i dont have a clue how that works though...being a dumbass!...could you elaborate?.

would the 555 turn the fet on/off then, and be variable speed controlled too...with a depth also?..hmmm...i think i'm understanding you....a bit!.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ppaappoo on March 26, 2011, 03:17:43 PM
hi pappoo

sounds interesting, i dont have a clue how that works though...being a dumbass!...could you elaborate?.

would the 555 turn the fet on/off then, and be variable speed controlled too...with a depth also?..hmmm...i think i'm understanding you....a bit!.

Not much about it but I think the EA Tremolo has something similar, is the part shown in red, it seems that Q2 is a kind of switch controlled by oscillator, that leads the signal to ground .
Try this to bypass the signal to ground and cause an sound inrrupcion like a tremolo.


(http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/6605499_gfgfgfg.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/6605499/gfgfgfg.jpg.html)


Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 28, 2011, 10:13:42 AM
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/Photo-0267.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Scruffie on March 28, 2011, 10:21:42 AM
hi pappoo

sounds interesting, i dont have a clue how that works though...being a dumbass!...could you elaborate?.

would the 555 turn the fet on/off then, and be variable speed controlled too...with a depth also?..hmmm...i think i'm understanding you....a bit!.

Not much about it but I think the EA Tremolo has something similar, is the part shown in red, it seems that Q2 is a kind of switch controlled by oscillator, that leads the signal to ground .
Try this to bypass the signal to ground and cause an sound inrrupcion like a tremolo.


(http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/6605499_gfgfgfg.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/6605499/gfgfgfg.jpg.html)



The FET Is working as a Variable Resistor... you can't really just take it out that design and stick it in another though, FETs are hard to use and Vary alot so getting them to run predictably and cleanly is difficult, that's why you don't see them used too often.

There are a couple of other options but the LED/LDR combo already in use here provides the simplest and cleanest solution.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 28, 2011, 10:28:49 AM
@jimi..yay!...built!.. :icon_cool:

@scruffie...hmmm...not as simple as first thought then!...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Scruffie on March 28, 2011, 10:36:05 AM
@jimi..yay!...built!.. :icon_cool:

@scruffie...hmmm...not as simple as first thought then!...
Yeah... i'm gunna say if you had ticking problems with an LED, you'll be in for a whole world of pain with a FET.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 28, 2011, 10:38:51 AM
righto!...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 28, 2011, 02:00:29 PM
not to be lame/lazy, but if i increase the resistance of the depth pot, will i get slightly more throb?

i added that buffer circuit  i was working on to it, works great, but now the throbulation is really really subtle...but...in a way it's kinda cool, cuz as the guitar decays, the trem gets stronger!! kinda neat in itself, but i'd really like just a rch more to the depth...do you think a 10k or 50 may work better rob? or is it overkill? or do i need to go down, say, maybe to 1k?

thanks in advance!! i love this circuit, it's really sweet and subtle!!

edit...i tried raising and lowering the resistance in the depth part of the circuit, no difference whatsoever.

i'm thinking i'll try wiring it to the output jack instead of the input, but thinking it may pick up a "tick" in the buffer amp?

the only other thought i've got is maybe separating the led/ldr slightly, to see if that may increase the intensity of the pulse?

i await ya'll's infinitely superior knowledge on this!!  ;D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Barcode80 on March 28, 2011, 05:14:03 PM
is your buffer set up as unity gain? I ask because if it is set with a small boost, then the resistance of the LDR may not be enough to kill the signal, which would explain your problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on March 28, 2011, 06:00:56 PM
yah, unity gain, i've been wondering if it's giving a slight boost. here's the circuit...beats me, i'm a newbe!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/basic2n3904bufferrevd.gif)

i have noticed that fuzzes and drives tend to overpower it...kinda neat, in a way...like a ducking trem! :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on April 18, 2011, 06:17:43 AM
Hi all! :D rob iwasscanning the thread for hours! hehehe cant find the final schematic :( hooooooooh can you repost it? :D thanks i want to make this tomorrow :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 18, 2011, 06:19:49 AM
i havent a schematic, but this was the final version i built....

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/ts555cnvero.gif.html

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/TS555TINYTREM.gif.html
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on April 19, 2011, 12:32:31 AM
thanks rob ill make a schematic for perfing :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: LucifersTrip on April 19, 2011, 02:30:05 AM
thanks rob ill make a schematic for perfing :D

sounds great...please post when you are finished...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on April 19, 2011, 06:44:25 AM
ohhh i wrote it in a piece of paper and then analyse the size and free-styling the perf design hehehe :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on April 21, 2011, 10:57:28 PM
Hey
Rob, i finally made your tremolOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO its sounds very nice but! i have some questions

1.) where did you place your trem? after distortion or before dist?
2.) did you experience volume loss? when engage?
3.) because it has same output input there are plenty of clean guitar is going in("without tremolo effect " even max depth) is the version 1 pure tremolo?
4.) when i boost the guitar signal using clean boost the tremolo effect is not very audible when depth is in 9-1 o'clock i think?
5.) how can we attach a output buffer if the in/out is same?

Thanks alot for designing this wonderful effect:D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 22, 2011, 08:41:41 AM
Hey
Rob, i finally made your tremolOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO its sounds very nice but! i have some questions

1.) where did you place your trem? after distortion or before dist?
2.) did you experience volume loss? when engage?
3.) because it has same output input there are plenty of clean guitar is going in("without tremolo effect " even max depth) is the version 1 pure tremolo?
4.) when i boost the guitar signal using clean boost the tremolo effect is not very audible when depth is in 9-1 o'clock i think?
5.) how can we attach a output buffer if the in/out is same?

Thanks alot for designing this wonderful effect:D

uhuh..yep..had volume loss..a bit.
i only use mine on clean stuff..and for recording only.(i dont gig anymore)..so later in the chain is fine by me..
when its boosted it will overide/push the ldr...thats why you wont hear the effect..
the buffer idea is a pain as you rightly say, the in is also the out...so a buffer would affect both..
the problem lies with the ldr really...maybe a buffer on the depth output might help..but am not sure on that..
but its great for its simplicity as is. and was an interesting project, i learned a lot along the way.. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: askwho69 on April 22, 2011, 09:08:53 AM
sad! so this thing  is good for clean lines and home recording . . im planning to use this on gigs so i will change my tremolo then :( i like the simplicity but thats what can we get from it :D but still im happy with my result though... gonna try pulsar :D
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 22, 2011, 09:15:36 AM
yep!..

if i were to redsign it , i would go for a different lfo, and have a buffer too....

just a thought though, maybe a buffer from the depth out would work.....as the ldr seems to be the culprit...maybe!.. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: thedefog on April 29, 2011, 01:54:51 PM
sad! so this thing  is good for clean lines and home recording . . im planning to use this on gigs so i will change my tremolo then :( i like the simplicity but thats what can we get from it :D but still im happy with my result though... gonna try pulsar :D

I built a Pulsar and I sold it right away because I thought it was probably the worst sounding tremolo I ever played through.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on May 24, 2011, 10:32:01 AM
Hi guys, I'm back to this tiny tremolo build (spent a lot of time with other effects I'm building) and I was surprised with the developments since my last post (17! pages ago).
Now we have common ground for signal and power (which is great as I can put it on my multi-fx board), a new IC, a new R2 and lots of new info although not summarised as it's spread trough the massive 34 pages of the thread.
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on May 24, 2011, 07:06:36 PM
Hi guys, I'm back to this tiny tremolo build (spent a lot of time with other effects I'm building) and I was surprised with the developments since my last post (17! pages ago).
Now we have common ground for signal and power (which is great as I can put it on my multi-fx board), a new IC, a new R2 and lots of new info although not summarised as it's spread trough the massive 34 pages of the thread.
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.
Hi joao:
the ts555cn is very quiet...no ticking at all..i would try and find one....but, i did have some success with a cmos 555 dropping the voltage into it helped. 9v>2.2k IIRC!..
the ldr: ywp i used 1M  i cant remember the on resistance though!..
the 3mmled: i used this as a 5mm increased noise!..3mm was fine. so i stuck with it.
the led/ldr. i used a 5mm red bright on mine and was ok.
yep there is a noticable volume drop..your idea with the 3M ldr may be correct...but i noticed when the speed is turned up it goes quieter...i think this may be due to the response time of the ldr on/off too..but i may be wrong on this. but seems logical to me!. in laymans terms anyway...
i would say breadboard it with the 3M and let us know how you get on...all the best rob. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on May 25, 2011, 07:13:08 AM
1- The first problem I have is that i can't find a low power TS555CN on my suppliers, just the regular 555CMOS chip. It will work without ticking? How should I wire it, I mean, is there any difference appart from not connect pin 4 to pin 5?
2- LDR should have a 1MOhm off (dark) resistance and a on (light) resistance of?
3- Rate led must be a 3mm red led or could be a 3mm blue superbright led?
4- LDR facing LED must be a 5mm red regular led right? Or a superbright?
5- It seems that we have a volume drop issue when the effect is engaged; analysing the circuit it seems the culprit is the not "high" enough LDR on resistance enabling some current to be drained to ground and thus dropping the volume. I've found a LDR with a on/off resistance of 132k/3MOhm available at my supplier. Will improve the volume drop enough? Another way to do it is to put a trim or resistance in series to teak the value to reduce the vol drop till we reach a decent value. That could also improve the response to overdriven signals.
Sorry to have only questions and no solutions but I hope it helps others also.
Hi joao:
the ts555cn is very quiet...no ticking at all..i would try and find one....but, i did have some success with a cmos 555 dropping the voltage into it helped. 9v>2.2k IIRC!..
the ldr: ywp i used 1M  i cant remember the on resistance though!..
the 3mmled: i used this as a 5mm increased noise!..3mm was fine. so i stuck with it.
the led/ldr. i used a 5mm red bright on mine and was ok.
yep there is a noticable volume drop..your idea with the 3M ldr may be correct...but i noticed when the speed is turned up it goes quieter...i think this may be due to the response time of the ldr on/off too..but i may be wrong on this. but seems logical to me!. in laymans terms anyway...
i would say breadboard it with the 3M and let us know how you get on...all the best rob. :icon_wink:
[/quote]
Thanks Rob.
Regarding the TS555CN I've rememberd of another suplier that might have it. I'll try it.
The ldr I'll try different ones to seee if I can have any improvement in the volume drop.
Regarding the 3mm rate led, did you use a standard 3mm or a superbright? As now the voltage out of pin 3 of the ic is much lower, one can skip the protection resistance. The color may be important also as the reds need less voltage to light up than blue or green ones.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on May 25, 2011, 07:17:41 AM
hi, i used a 3mm yellow normal brightness....

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on May 25, 2011, 09:29:52 AM
Thanks. So for the leds its a superbright 5mm red for the LDR led and an Yellow standard 3mm for the rate led. I like to summarize :icon_mrgreen:.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on May 26, 2011, 08:01:46 AM
i noticed... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brossman on June 13, 2011, 10:13:46 AM
So I've read the entire thread over the past couple of days, noticing that the Ticking problems were addressed over and over, yet no ONE SINGLE solution seemed to do the trick for anybody...

So here are things consolidated for those tired of searching through 30+ pages of everyones' trials and tribulations (and hair pulling, and beer drinking, etc...)

To relieve ticking issues, some people have:
 - used resistors in series with the LEDs
 - spaced the LED/LDR a little farther apart
 - kept audio/power grounds separate
 - COMBINED audio/power grounds
 - lowered Vcc to the 555

I also followed someone's earlier advice (Rob, and others) and read up on 555 chips as much as possible... Here's a good link (reposted from much earlier in the thread)...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76910.20 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76910.20)

There is a link given here to a site that is VERY helpful... so much so that I read something about ticking...

HEY ROB, you know that nasty ticking issue people keep getting? I read, "3. The reset pin (pin 4) is internally tied HIGH via approx 100k but it should not be left floating as stray pulses may reset the chip."   ....could this be the cause of it? I recall only one kind of chip (ts555, from your latest layout) that didnt leave it open...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 13, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
hi britt....thanks for the summary...i never got round to it!..sorry!... ;)

yep the ts555cn was much much better than the standard cmos 555...no ticking at all....however i did use that same ic and principle in another circuit that required an lfo..and the bugger ticked!..

but not in the tremolo...hmmm....

so your saying if we played around with  the pin 4 it would have improved it?...hmm...i dont think i tried that!..

the basic 555 astable (i think) was just to get the led flashing...the ticking was a major hurdle , as i'm sure your aware of after reading all this... :icon_wink:

i'm too busy at the moment to re-bread it, but yeah i'd give it a shot if it cured it......cheers rob. :icon_cool:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brossman on June 13, 2011, 11:23:04 AM
Hey Rob,

According to the article linked in another thread (xxx.555-timer-circuits.com), pin 4 can pose problems.  I thought that may be the root of the thumps/bangs/ticks everybody was getting.  It seems a simple enough circuit, and I've got a load of some LDRs and 555's coming in the mail - should be here by the end of the week.  I don't currently have a BB, but there's a great little shop in town...  I can try to get a baby BB and get this thing rockin...see what up.  

I've been toying with the notion of doing this by a true bypass kind of thing with a dpdt.  I'm not normally for it (:icon_redface: I kinda like tone-suck...), but I think it may help to address some of the volume drop issues...

AND, on that note, you mentioned twice that adding in a boost/buffer would mean adding another pot... not necessarily, right? Couldn't you dial in the right gain with a trimmer, measure with a meter, then stick in the closest regular resistor? (or hell, just keep the trimmer on the board...?)

 - Britt

EDIT:  AS for the pin 4 issue, the article detailed that when pin 4 drops below 0.8V, it resets the chip.  It seems to me (in my limited electronics knowledge) that if a series cap was used, it may help to keep that pin from dropping below that threshold voltage...thoughts?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 13, 2011, 11:35:32 AM
the problem with a buffer is that the in/out are tied together/the same thing.....so its kinds weird!!...its only one side of the ldr that could be buffered, but then it would lose the depth by over pushing the ldr...

sorry i'm not too au fait with tech terms...as you may have gathered... ;D

that'd be cool if you get it going on bb.... note: there is a volume drop when speed is fast too...but not slow..

this is down to the 'reaction' time of the ldr...

it would e nice to 'finally' cure any ticking in any 555...i live in hope... :icon_wink:

using an lm358n for an lfo is great though........very quiet lfo...but the speed vol drop would still be an issue, the way i/we were using it....



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brossman on June 13, 2011, 11:39:10 AM
I'll get some things together and report back to you.  I should remember to document my procedure, so everyone (including myself!) will know what the heck is going on!

As soon as I get the parts and what have you together, I'll give it a go.  Talk to you in about a week!

Until then, stay busy!  ...and have a beer!

 - Britt
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 13, 2011, 11:43:24 AM
cheers man...yeah i'll have a beer...or ...3


just ordeed up some ldr's...1M-2k...i needed them for other stuff, always handy though!...speak soon ok... rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: pinkjimiphoton on June 13, 2011, 03:36:56 PM
good luck, britt, rob's circuit is great, but i tried adding a buffer on both sides of the circuit, then both sides simultaneously...the buffer overpowered the effect,
at least in my build.
great sounding circuit...in a way, it's cool, cuz if ya put other stuff before it, it gets overpowered, and as the notes decay, the trem fades in...kind of a ducking tremolo!
;)
Title: Tiny Trem is UP on the new BB...
Post by: Brossman on June 21, 2011, 08:16:22 PM
Weellll, I got all the goods and after a week of trying to breadboard for the first time (5 projects crashed and burned cuz I couldnt get anything going, only to find out that all the busses needed to be jumped in the middle...  -.- I feel so dumb)

ANYHOW, got your 1st Ed. to work where the in and out are on either end of the LDR.  Sounds great!...except there's ticking, go figure...

So I've tried all the remedies: separate gnd; tied gnd; space the LDR further from the LED; tying pins 4/5... The only thing that seemed to help was turning down the treble on the test amp.  Well,  :icon_idea: I thought maybe take a small cap and bleed out the ticking to gnd.  And it works... sort of... And it pretty much stops on the occasion that I touch the leads of a couple components here and there with the same digit (only my hands - not a probe/lead)...

The chip I have is a TS555IN by ST Electronics. The full # is CHN TS555IN K19028

Anybody got any bright ideas? what about the touching thing?
Title: Re: Tiny Trem is UP on the new BB...
Post by: Perrow on June 22, 2011, 02:13:49 AM
only to find out that all the busses needed to be jumped in the middle...  

Been there  :icon_evil:

Have you tried the limiting resistor? (limiting input to the 555)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 22, 2011, 04:57:02 AM
^me too... ::) ;D

bread suggestions!.

1: whack a 100uf electro on the + and - on the board...i leave one on there all the time for power filtering..

2:make your breadboard 'true bypass...get a 3pdt toggle or stomp...2 jacks and led and wire it up as if it were a pedal...this will help in the long run..believe me!..(make a seperate box/ or attach it all to the board..somehow..)
great for instantly hearing the difference between effect +bypass....when experimenting.

3:join up the middle + - rows... :icon_mrgreen:

but seriously, i never had any ticking with the ts555cn when i put a 2.2k on the +, ... like perrow said, try a 5k-10k trim on the + pin....and drop it and see if its ok...

if i were to build this again, id use a different ic for  lfo!... ;)....ive used lm358n's..tl072's...etc...no ticking whatsoever...not as 'tiny' as i'd like..but not big either...and they work nice!.... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: newfish on June 22, 2011, 05:56:25 AM
Another two cents...

I tried to build a 555-based tremolo a year or so ago, and cured my ticking issues by using a 22uF cap from the (LDR's) LED Anode to ground.

In the end, I stood on the shoulders of giants, and used the LFO from the Phase 90 circuit - it's pretty much *any* dual Op-Amp (TL072, LM358, 4558 etc...), and is quiet as a mouse with a ball-gag.

I also had to use a small 'boost' circuit after, as there was a noticeable drop in volume with the effect engaged at extreme settings.
I ended up using a 'standard' FET Boost, with a trimpot on the output.  I simply adjusted this trimmer to an appropriate level of recovery.

Hope this is of some help.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 22, 2011, 06:05:27 AM
hi ian.  i have the image of that mouse now.. :icon_mrgreen:


yeah it did go quiet at extreme settings...(the trem..not the mouse)..

anyway,  so did you still use the led/ldr to ground via depth method?...and if so, where did you put the buffer..?  just curious.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: newfish on June 22, 2011, 06:33:26 AM
Not sure about the 'depth' thing. 
The 'depth' control I employed was to mix between the square and triangle waves produced by the oscillator - so more of a 'blend' control.
Each waveform required a resistor in-line to the 'blend' pot (100K Lin) to balance out the difference in amplitude - and to provide a low enough supply to dim the LED properly at the lowest 'volume' point.
From memory, the Square wave was something like 10K, and the Triangle wave was roughly 6K8.
I can check these values later if you need...

The guitar's signal went straight to the Anode of the LDR, LDR's Cathode went to the imput of the buffer.

Obviously, the buffer was after the trem.

It did not give a 'clean' trem effect (I imagine because of the constantly ramping impedance of the guitar's signal), but was a pleasant 'vintage' amount of grit.

Anyway, it fits in a small box, sits there, and works.  I need nothing more from a stompbox...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 22, 2011, 06:35:26 AM
cool....gotcha!... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brossman on June 22, 2011, 06:25:24 PM
but seriously, i never had any ticking with the ts555cn when i put a 2.2k on the +, ... like perrow said, try a 5k-10k trim on the + pin....and drop it and see if its ok...

I think you missed it... I used a ts555in, not "cn"... but they can't be that different... different runs/tolerances? ...w/e, irrelevant...

Anyhow, the only ticking is hardly audible - I can live with it, I think.  As for the input resistor, I tried stuff while on BB - got nothing...

Well, I was happy (enough) with the stuff I had (subbed 22uF cap for 47uF), so I put er on perf - only a bypassed sound, but could hear the click when I touched the open lug of the Speed-pot.  As I turned the knob, the clicks matched the speed of LED, but only clean sound came through... Could I have burned out the LDR when soldering/heat-shrinking?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on June 24, 2011, 02:59:25 PM
Has anyone used a Vactrol for the LED/LDR combo? I have several laying around (VTL5C9, VTl5C3, VTL5C2) and could drop one of those in the circuit if the ranges are wide enough.

BTW, this is a damn good sounding effect. Can't wait to get it built up!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Brossman on June 26, 2011, 09:46:02 PM
Guitar guy: havent used one, personally.  But in theory, it should work just fine, so long as the maximum resistance is large enough (ie, 1Meg...?)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 27, 2011, 03:06:52 AM
yup!.... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 01, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
So... Using this layout, what would happen if I used a 50k pot for speed and a 5k pot for depth??

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem2.gif)

I ask this because I'm getting into using alpha clear shaft pots and would love to make this pedal with light-up knobs, but they only come in 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, and 100k.

Thanks!

I plan on getting this on the breadboard tonight...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 02, 2011, 04:55:35 AM
hi ugly :    :icon_mrgreen:    use this layout.....with a ts55cn cmos.

other 555's may tick ok...

yep breadboard it first...

yep pots will be fine...note i used 10k and 4.7k on this version...verified and no ticking.

where do you get the illuminated pots btw?...link?..

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/TS555TINYTREM.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 02, 2011, 03:50:39 PM
hi ugly :    :icon_mrgreen:    use this layout.....with a ts55cn cmos.

other 555's may tick ok...

yep breadboard it first...

yep pots will be fine...note i used 10k and 4.7k on this version...verified and no ticking.

where do you get the illuminated pots btw?...link?..

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/TS555TINYTREM.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

Awesome, thanks! I was trying to locate the most current version in all of these pages.

I got the pots from Mouser. They're 14mm pcb mount, part # 313-1400F-5K (for 5k of course). They only make them in 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, and 100k, but they look damn good.

Gonna try to fit this into a 1590A, so here we go!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 03, 2011, 08:22:53 PM
Well it looks like I have a quirky little problem. I'm trying to use some leftover vactrols for this circuit, and when I plug in any of my vactrols to the LED side of the circuit the 555 shuts off. I have a VTL5C9, VTL5C1, VTL5C2, and VTL5C3 and they all do the same thing to the circuit. any idea what's going on here? Is the 555 not putting out enough power to run the speed LED and the vactol? I think the vactrols require 40ma...

And the plot thickens...

I put a blue superbright LED into the side where the LED/LDR combo would go and the circuit works fine. I put an amber LED into the same spot and the speed indicator LED turns off. Seems a bit strange, eh?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 05, 2011, 12:53:28 PM
Ok, so apparently the radioshack 555cmos that I have puts out too little mA to drive a superbright 3mm led AND a vactrol (or a superbright led and any other led for that matter). I put in a "normal" led into the enclosure rate position and made my own led/ldr combo and voila! tremolo works (with ticking of course...). I have the TS555CN on order from Mouser so we'll see how that works out for me.

The issue that I have run into now is that the "depth" knob doesn't seem to work, so I have to figure that out next....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 05, 2011, 01:09:37 PM
HI UGLY..

the other (ground end) of the ldr goes to pin 3 of the pot, then pin 2 of the pot to ground...that'll give you the depth.

yep, leds are funny arent they, i used a standard 3mm yellow with mine and it worked fine...

with the ts555cn, dont forget to tie pin 4 - 8 together...otherwise the lfo will lock....sometimes.. ;).. but no ticking. , :icon_wink:



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 08, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
with the ts555cn, dont forget to tie pin 4 - 8 together...otherwise the lfo will lock....sometimes.. ;).. but no ticking. , :icon_wink:


Just got my ts555cn's in today and I wanted to double check this. tie pins 4 and 8?? Not just 4 and 5?? Just want to make sure this isn't a typo...

Thanks  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 08, 2011, 07:14:30 PM
yep!....otherwise it tends to lock up the lfo....ok. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 09, 2011, 01:16:06 AM
Sooooo... even with the TS555CN I still get ticking. My on/off LED is a superbright, so I'll swap that for a "normal" led and see if that has any effect. Also, with the TS555CN I can use my VTL5C9 vactrol but the speed indicator LED gets very dim.

Also, the speed is pretty high and I'd like to make it slower. I ended up using an 870R resistor in the R2 spot because I couldn't get it to work with a 2.2K, and my 4.7k pot is actually a 5k pot. Would a 10k pot give a slower rate??

Lastly, the depth pot is wired up correctly and still doesn't do anything when I turn it. This circuit really does act so weird for so many different people...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 09, 2011, 05:14:08 AM
weird....it should be real slo9w to fast...., try a higher c1....out of curiosity....

i used 5mm red bright for on /off...all was ok.

i used 3mm standard yellow, for speed indicator...

what value are your ldr's....the depth should be fine... ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: newfish on July 09, 2011, 02:45:39 PM
...or you could use something like this for an even small, neater LED/LDR arrangement.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/low-current-optocoupler-sfh618-2-2228

Ignore that it's Maplin if you will, but these things are *tiny*, and work...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 09, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
are they blatantly just an led and ldr inside?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: newfish on July 10, 2011, 09:35:54 AM
are they blatantly just an led and ldr inside?...

Yes.  That's exactly what they are, but it saves time (and space) messing around with heat-shrink tubing / 35mm film canisters / insulation tape etc...

Granted, this wouldn't work for *every* opto-isloating application.  Can you imagine trying to get a Neovibe working with these?  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 10, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
^ yeah right!... :P

might get a couple of these to mess with....i guess they have the same varying dark/light resistances as normal ldr's then?...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ORK on July 11, 2011, 03:57:07 AM
The "resistor" side clearly is a transistor (with lightdependant base) but not a resistor.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 11, 2011, 07:51:22 PM
weird....it should be real slo9w to fast...., try a higher c1....out of curiosity....

i used 5mm red bright for on /off...all was ok.

i used 3mm standard yellow, for speed indicator...

what value are your ldr's....the depth should be fine... ???

Ok, so after some very fine combing, I found that there was a hair thin trace of something connecting the bottom ground where the depth pot is which is why it wasn't working. However, I wouldn't say that it is so much a "depth" as it is a "mix" control. All it does is swell in the normal guitar volume with a very sharp tremolo stutter underneath. Seems kinda odd to me.

Still have ticking too, with whatever vactrol I use. Not sure what I can do to eliminate that.

Hey Rob, which circuit was this first tremolo you did? http://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry#p/u/7/UwvCvSwbXYI
 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 12, 2011, 02:04:43 AM
same one you are doing!....

ticking still?...hmmmmm....mine didnt at all....even when loud!... ???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on July 14, 2011, 02:45:50 AM
IT WORKS!! HAZZAH!!

Ok, now that I got that out of my system, I can say that I am another verified user of the Tiny Tremolo. Turns out that this circuit really doesn't like superbright LED's, OR the VTL series Vactrols. They all make a popping sound on the peak of the tremolo, so I made a vactrol from a radioshack LDR that rated around 1M and a normal yellow LED. Sounds pretty sweet.

My thought now is that since there's a small volume drop, instead of using a 2PDT switch, you could use a 3PDT switch and route in a buffer/booster when the effect is on. I think I'm going to give this a try, and then squeeze it all into a 1590A enclosure. Thanks for all your help Rob! Can't wait to get it loaded up in a box now. :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on July 14, 2011, 03:07:22 AM
cool, glad ya got it going.... :icon_cool:

let us know how ya get  on with the buffer version!... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on August 09, 2011, 12:28:12 PM
Built and verified with no ticking!

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/ugly_guitar_guy/TremBrule.jpg)

I just wish there was a way to make the rate LED brighter, but I guess I'll have to live with it as-is since the TS555CN only outputs barely enough mA to power 2 led's. That's probably what keeps the ticking at bay.

Anyway, a very enjoyable build altogether! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 09, 2011, 12:30:57 PM
cool... 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on August 09, 2011, 01:34:21 PM
Is it the "standard" or the boosted version?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on August 09, 2011, 02:08:36 PM
Is it the "standard" or the boosted version?

Standard version. I just have too many projects to get to first, so I'll have to come back to it to tweak a boosted version.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nexekho on August 11, 2011, 12:22:14 PM
I've built mine now, not yet got an enclosure in which it fits, but finally put the two halves together on a high tech piece of cardboard, closed the blinds, and:

http://soundcloud.com/nexekho/tinytrem-test (http://soundcloud.com/nexekho/tinytrem-test)

Although I've used a more standard astable 555 with a non-CMOS 555, the basic theory is the same.  Have added a duty dial which only affects one half of the LFO, and a potentiometer on both channels which allow you to bypass the LDRs for depth and I've also used three LDRs with one dedicated to the left channel and the other two switchable for panner or tremolo.
Thanks for the idea!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 11, 2011, 03:31:18 PM
cool, i coudn't hear the panning though....but it certainly works with distortion too.... nice.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nexekho on August 11, 2011, 04:35:44 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention that as I've only got one stereo patch cable I can't record the panning - with headphones though it works.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 11, 2011, 04:37:00 PM
ahhhh gotcha...  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nexekho on August 25, 2011, 09:15:53 PM
Ordered a short stereo patch with some components for something else, here's the panner:
http://soundcloud.com/nexekho/panner-demo (http://soundcloud.com/nexekho/panner-demo)

Thanks again for this design!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 26, 2011, 04:41:16 AM
@james,  nice one!..sounds great....when i used mine i had it on a slowish pan jamming along with stuff, it was great , it gave it a more live/dynamic to it...instead of  a static mix...

excellent,  did you use the tiny stereo panner vero?...sounds like a good strong signal especially with distortion... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nexekho on August 26, 2011, 05:39:03 AM
I used a more standard astable 555 with one of the LEDs on a longish lead and three LDRs, one channel going straight through one LDR and one going through a SPDT so you can switch between a LDR by the first LED and a second by the other LED.  It's the concept that matters though.

It probably matters that my distortion is actually a DSP-based Pocket POD which is very likely to be buffered and the next thing in the sequence is my desktop PC's line in jack.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 26, 2011, 05:44:00 AM
gotcha!...cool,  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Zombie_Crush on August 28, 2011, 04:07:37 PM

Hi Rob


was this version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPIKOnpiNE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

is this the same layout as the  Pulsewah or A-trem A-wah  and a tremwah 3in1 from page 10

as i would love to make this build

cheers for your help

:)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 28, 2011, 04:16:04 PM

Hi Rob


was this version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPIKOnpiNE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

is this the same layout as the  Pulsewah or A-trem A-wah  and a tremwah 3in1 from page 10

as i would love to make this build

cheers for your help

:)



hi zombie;  i never got round to building (page 10) 3 in 1(so its unverified ok)....the idea ended up as the  'lightwah' which is very cool though if you fancy that!......

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=88582.msg797623#msg797623

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPhrmxm999Y

the pdf and pcb pdf's are in my gallery ok... remember c8 =10uf though.... i must update it one day!... ::)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Zombie_Crush on August 28, 2011, 06:18:56 PM


Hi Rob

thanks for the info, so wont attempt the proto at this stage ??? - though really loved the how expressive and ambient that circuit sounded. Your lightwah certainly interests me - does it include Tremolo and Wah functions, or purely the light reactive pulsating wah. Ultimately I would like to have both functions running in harmony.

Cheers for your assistance  :)




Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 29, 2011, 05:07:01 AM


Hi Rob

thanks for the info, so wont attempt the proto at this stage ??? - though really loved the how expressive and ambient that circuit sounded. Your lightwah certainly interests me - does it include Tremolo and Wah functions, or purely the light reactive pulsating wah. Ultimately I would like to have both functions running in harmony.

Cheers for your assistance  :)

hi zombie, checkout the video on the light wah above...it has the light sensor part..and auto lfo setting...

that 3 in 1 will probably be ok, but i would use a cmos ts555cn ic on it.....look at the final tiny trem version for differences in connections...pin 4 -5 connected etc ok....





Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Zombie_Crush on August 29, 2011, 05:25:53 AM


Cool thanks!

Am very tempted to try your 3in1 - and have a quiet a few TS555CN at hand. What i loved about your original proto - pulsewah - was the way in which you were manipulating and fading in the LDR -  a Vangelis vibe -  is that effect still possible with the lightwah :)



Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 29, 2011, 05:28:24 AM
nope!... i liked that effect too....the rise of the opening wah with the trem...cool...

check that layout over, its basically a tiny trem, split into  wah/trem on one massive ::) board...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Zombie_Crush on August 29, 2011, 05:45:58 AM
will do  :icon_wink:

so will the 3in1 be capable of effecting sound that way? if not, how did you wire the LDR to react like that.

would it be a case of wiring the LDR in parallel across the Wah pot on the 3in1?

I want that sound! lol   :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on August 30, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
i'm not 100% sure it would...it was a while ago now...

but, swap the 22k pot for an ldr....

on that video i was using a neat little circuit i came up with that lights an led when the led is covered...i called it 'darklight'..

there is another version of darklight...called guess what... 'darklight 2'...imaginative i know!.. :icon_rolleyes:

it has a sensitivity control for different light conditions..but will not work in the dark..ironically, its in my gallery ok... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on November 29, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
Ok, I just can't let this thread die apparently.  :icon_mrgreen:

So, I've been attacking this circuit again and seem to have come across one particular issue. After plowing through all the pages of the thread and bread-boarding several different versions with my TS555CN I seem to like this version the best:

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tremwithdepth1.jpg)

The changes I made are with pins 4 and 8 connected to keep the TS555CN from locking up, with a 10uF cap instead of 47uF, 50k speed pot instead of 10k (I just like the range of speeds that this combination gives), and separate audio and power grounds. With these changes there are no ticking problems whatsoever.

My problem is with the depth pot though. I don't care for the way it sounds in the later versions that are posted here, and I really like how it affects the signal in this version, but I'm bound to using values that my clear shaft pots are made in (5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k) and with the 5k pot all of the depth adjustment is in the last 20% of the pot sweep (which would make sense being that it needs a 1k pot). What can I do to make this depth section work with a 5k pot, if at all possible? Thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2011, 03:52:01 AM
My problem is with the depth pot though. I don't care for the way it sounds in the later versions that are posted here, and I really like how it affects the signal in this version, but I'm bound to using values that my clear shaft pots are made in (5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k) and with the 5k pot all of the depth adjustment is in the last 20% of the pot sweep (which would make sense being that it needs a 1k pot). What can I do to make this depth section work with a 5k pot, if at all possible? Thanks!

Try sticking a small resistor (5k? 1k? maybe even smaller) between the ldr and "out", should make for a better voltage divider, giving you better depth.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2011, 04:39:52 AM
@perrow , would a 5k across the pot lugs do it too?...

man, gotta go to dentist, my left cheek  has swollen up...i look like my halloween pumpkin did after 5 days......arghhhhhhh.......needles.....arghhhhhh.... :'(
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2011, 05:20:20 AM
@perrow , would a 5k across the pot lugs do it too?...

man, gotta go to dentist, my left cheek  has swollen up...i look like my halloween pumpkin did after 5 days......arghhhhhhh.......needles.....arghhhhhh.... :'(

I suppose it would. Cool idea, why don't you breadboard it ;) There's a lot of ways to connect it but I'd suppose you'd connect it as a volume control, input "on top", output on wiper and ldr to ground. I think I'll sketch up a "Huge Trem" using this and an input buffer/boost. Probably just as well add an output buffer as well.

The only good thing about dentists are that it's usually less painful to go there than not. That's if you'll prefer not to be called "pumpkin"  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2011, 05:36:53 AM
ha ha....yeah!.. :)

can't go dentist till friday ...@#$%ers are busy...i'll look like a guiness world record winning pumpkin by then... :icon_eek:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 30, 2011, 07:05:47 AM

Try sticking a small resistor (5k? 1k? maybe even smaller) between the ldr and "out", should make for a better voltage divider, giving you better depth.

In the arrangement above, there is no potential divider in play (assuming the guitar vol knob is at max) - also lowering the value of the pot by placing a resistor across the lugs will take the resistance 'seen' by the pickup down .....& if this is the first effect in your signal chain, that's gonna suck tone.

I've mentioned previously that in this arrangement the LDR is actually acting like a polite kill switch (vs a guitar vol pot) i.e. when the ldr is high value it has little effect on the pickup signal, when the ldr is low value...it loading the pickup current .....creating a polite 'short' to ground (I say 'polite' just to help understand the workings - it won't be a short, but a low resistance) ...& becuase the pickup can't source sufficient current into the load, then end result is that the signal voltage gets loaded down.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2011, 07:46:45 AM

Try sticking a small resistor (5k? 1k? maybe even smaller) between the ldr and "out", should make for a better voltage divider, giving you better depth.

In the arrangement above, there is no potential divider in play (assuming the guitar vol knob is at max) - also lowering the value of the pot by placing a resistor across the lugs will take the resistance 'seen' by the pickup down .....& if this is the first effect in your signal chain, that's gonna suck tone.

Yeah, was a bit hasty there. I think it got better in my reply to Pumpkin.

(http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/33500/Pumpkin-Astronaut--33554.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2011, 07:51:31 AM
OT: Sorry can not resist posting another find from my search of pumpkin astronauts:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-geyfich1Bdc/Tq7Vzc0id0I/AAAAAAAADPA/aaAgCuhCpAU/s400/Halloween+and+Henry+083a.jpg)

 :icon_lol:

At least it's kind of music related  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2011, 08:04:54 AM
brilliant..love the pumpkin astronaut....excellent, thats my new desktop.... :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on November 30, 2011, 11:54:00 AM
So is the answer now that this is not possible with a 5k pot? I'm having trouble following what Gurner was talking about.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 30, 2011, 12:09:17 PM
So is the answer now that this is not possible with a 5k pot? I'm having trouble following what Gurner was talking about.

I've not built the circuit so others can advise if any particular values work best (as it goes, there's a lot of 'variables' in this circuit which will affect the final results - 555 supply voltage, led colour & efficiency, LDR light/dark resistance, pickup type, guitar volume knob position...so what works for someone else, may not work in your situation)...I was just following up to Perrow's posts, that there's not potential divider going on - that said if you roll your guitar knob down, then that will create a potential divider ...you'll lose signal volume, but you'll get more tremolo depth.

the thing to note about this circuit...it's not acting upon guitar pickup signal voltage directly, but guitar signal pickup current - to convert that changing current into a changing voltage elegantly, you need to put some resistance in series with your guitar's output (which is effectively what rolling your guitar knob down does) ...but the down side is you lose signal. I realise talking in  'signal current' terms might puzzle a few here, because I reckon 90% of the circuits we see here mainly affect signal voltage, but this is in the final 10% that affect signal current.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 30, 2011, 12:57:47 PM
i'll get my coat  again.....lol....lol....


i knocked this up as a total noob (see page 1)......i just thought it would work...and it does....in a clean mode........it was a nooby way of using light n sound with no EE knowledge at all....,
saying that..i do have an affection for  the nooby way!!....seems more inventive and spontaneous......than staring at a scope n doing maths........its nice to get back to basics and use  your ears especially with distortions etc..... ....................though i realise that theory is important ...having fun and experimenting is too...especially for noobs like myself..........breadboard and have fun!...........i think the toothpills are kicking in..... ;) ;) :icon_cool:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 30, 2011, 01:52:52 PM
i'll get my coat  again.....lol....lol....


i knocked this up as a total noob (see page 1)......i just thought it would work...and it does....in a clean mode........it was a nooby way of using light n sound with no EE knowledge at all....,
saying that..i do have an affection for  the nooby way!!....seems more inventive and spontaneous......than staring at a scope n doing maths........its nice to get back to basics and use  your ears especially with distortions etc..... ....................though i realise that theory is important ...having fun and experimenting is too...especially for noobs like myself..........breadboard and have fun!...........i think the toothpills are kicking in..... ;) ;) :icon_cool:



Rob, I'm not knocking what you've done or going all high brow ...if it works,  it works (& the amount that like your circuit is testament to that! :icon_cool:) ...I'm just jumping in to clarify in response to the odd post now and then, that this circuit isn't like a normal potential divider situation....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on November 30, 2011, 04:09:04 PM
Rob, I'm not knocking what you've done or going all high brow ...if it works,  it works (& the amount that like your circuit is testament to that! :icon_cool:) ...I'm just jumping in to clarify in response to the odd post, that this circuit isn't like a normal potential divider situation....

To clarify my thoughts on how the pot could be wired:

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/TinyImprovement.png)

The value of the pot would need to be tested I guess. Put a buffer/boost in front to cut your losses.

I have about 50% chance of having the pot in the right order so about 75% chance of being wrong  ::)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on November 30, 2011, 04:32:02 PM
Yes, that'll give a bit more depth (ie it's the inline series resistance I was talking about - as the LDR decreases in value, the pickup's load will increase, as will the current, therefore you get a more of a signal voltage swing), but a 5K pot as the top resistor of a two resistor divider chain -  ie where the bottom resistor is the LDR - isn't likely going to have a huge amount of effect (though this will depend hugely on the 'light resistance' of the LDR and how efficiently the LED is optically coupled to it) - making the pot larger in resistance will have more impact, but then you lose signal level.....
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 01, 2011, 02:50:40 AM
no worries G,  the whiskey n pills to stop my face ache had truly kicked in...... ::)...i weren't having a dig, just stating that i'm just a dumbass.... ;D.. ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on December 01, 2011, 12:51:05 PM
Rob, I'm not knocking what you've done or going all high brow ...if it works,  it works (& the amount that like your circuit is testament to that! :icon_cool:) ...I'm just jumping in to clarify in response to the odd post, that this circuit isn't like a normal potential divider situation....

To clarify my thoughts on how the pot could be wired:

(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Stomp/TinyImprovement.png)

The value of the pot would need to be tested I guess. Put a buffer/boost in front to cut your losses.

I have about 50% chance of having the pot in the right order so about 75% chance of being wrong  ::)

Sweet, I'll give this a shot tonight and report back the findings.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on December 01, 2011, 12:55:30 PM
if you want to hear the effect/impact without having to rejig rewire your circuit ....just roll your guitar vol knob back off a little - it's the same outcome (the top part of your guitar pot becomes the resistance that VR1 is creating in that diagram).

So with the guitar knob rolled back, this is the signal path....

1. pickup-> 2. guitar vol pot top lug-> 3. guitar vol pot wiper out-> 4. LDR to ground.

therefore 2. & 3. add the resistance needed to gain more tremolo depth.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on December 01, 2011, 07:03:30 PM
Finaly done it: sound wonderfull. I like depth at 4:00 and speed/rate at 3:00: sounds pretty cool for rythm. It behaves ok with my fuzz face before and makes a tremendous effect if I add my Delay after it...
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: garcho on December 16, 2011, 08:33:04 PM
I tried this circuit with CMOS 555 chips and about 10 different colored LEDs - all of which produced clicking (a sound similar to digital clipping, or latency issues with computer audio). I used a red LED with a 100mF cap to ground from pin 3, and voila, no clicking.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 17, 2011, 05:41:04 AM
nice one gary....a cure for the old cmos..great.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: garcho on December 17, 2011, 11:33:55 AM
Thanks for the ultra simple trem Rob! Considering the grumbling that accompanies EA, TremLune, etc., this is a great simple alternative. I make noise maker/pseudo synths and low-parts-count circuits like this are perfect for those. And, flashing LEDs are perfect for Tonegod's light plates (http://www.diystompboxes.com/wpress/?p=207).   :icon_razz:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: jokersmile32 on January 07, 2012, 09:26:45 AM
I just made this and the led does not light up but i get sound variation by moving my hand over the ldr.  I used an NE555P IC chip, i cant find any info if it is CMOS or not.  Also,Can i use an optocoupler ic chip such as the PC123 instead of using an led and ldr(photoresistor) combination?  
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: DavenPaget on January 08, 2012, 01:04:22 PM
I just made this and the led does not light up but i get sound variation by moving my hand over the ldr.  I used an NE555P IC chip, i cant find any info if it is CMOS or not.  Also,Can i use an optocoupler ic chip such as the PC123 instead of using an led and ldr(photoresistor) combination?  
Just make sure the optocoupler is within the resistances mentioned ... if none try to get what you see as "typical" LDR's .
NE555 is NOT a CMOS 555 . Only TLC555 is .
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on January 09, 2012, 06:51:45 AM
I just made this and the led does not light up but i get sound variation by moving my hand over the ldr.  I used an NE555P IC chip, i cant find any info if it is CMOS or not.  Also,Can i use an optocoupler ic chip such as the PC123 instead of using an led and ldr(photoresistor) combination?  
First you'll have to find a TS555 as it's the best IC for this circuit.
Second: is the led OK? Test it first. You should use a superbright 5mm red led for the LDR and then block any other light source (use isolation tape or a piece of heat shrink tube).
Third: the rate led should be a 3mm standard yellow led.
My circuit works fine with both clean and distorted sounds. The only thing he doesn't like is my Colorsound Power Boost clone as it raises the signal too much for the Tremolo to work properly. But I heaven't tested yet to decrease a little bit the volume either of the guitar or of the Power Boost.
I've used a 10k pot instead of a 4.7k because I already had it. The LDR I used was a 132k/3M. Have fun.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: comfortably_numb on January 14, 2012, 05:52:44 PM
Has anyone used this in the effects loop of their amp?  As I guess it's in the modulation effect category, I'd be using it post gain and pre delay.  Would that load the LDR too much to be useful?  Probably building this soon either way.  I love the simplicity, volume drop or not.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: ugly_guitar_guy on January 14, 2012, 08:05:17 PM
Has anyone used this in the effects loop of their amp?  As I guess it's in the modulation effect category, I'd be using it post gain and pre delay.  Would that load the LDR too much to be useful?  Probably building this soon either way.  I love the simplicity, volume drop or not.

Yup, tried it both ways with my Mark V and it was slightly better in the loop than in front, but it still wasn't as strong of a tremolo as I liked. I ended up building a small version of the EA tremolo instead and it's much more consistent all around. But this circuit was tons of fun to work on, and sounds fantastic on cleans.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: JRM on January 17, 2012, 10:04:19 AM
I just made this and the led does not light up but i get sound variation by moving my hand over the ldr.  I used an NE555P IC chip, i cant find any info if it is CMOS or not.  Also,Can i use an optocoupler ic chip such as the PC123 instead of using an led and ldr(photoresistor) combination?  
First you'll have to find a TS555 as it's the best IC for this circuit.
Second: is the led OK? Test it first. You should use a superbright 5mm red led for the LDR and then block any other light source (use isolation tape or a piece of heat shrink tube).
Third: the rate led should be a 3mm standard yellow led.
My circuit works fine with both clean and distorted sounds. The only thing he doesn't like is my Colorsound Power Boost clone as it raises the signal too much for the Tremolo to work properly. But I heaven't tested yet to decrease a little bit the volume either of the guitar or of the Power Boost.
I've used a 10k pot instead of a 4.7k because I already had it. The LDR I used was a 132k/3M. Have fun.

Just to update with IC voltages to GND:
Pin/Voltage (speed rate=full=0 resistance):
1: 0V (GND)
2: 1.13V
3: 1.5V (Leds connection, no need to protect them with any resistance)
4: 1.43V
5: 1.43V (connected with pin 4)
6: 1.13V (connected with pin 2)
7: 1.13V
8: 2.19V
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on March 19, 2012, 12:28:29 PM
Schematic VERIFIED, and it sounds cool!
 
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/mods/tremolo-sch.jpg)
 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on March 19, 2012, 12:49:02 PM
Now, the veroboard (with a little modification of connections...)
  
(http://www.fuzzface.es/mods/tremolo-vero.jpg)
 
 
NOTE: The schematic and the veroboard, it's based in design of "deadastronaut". Thanks Rob!.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 20, 2012, 03:27:49 AM
your welcome!... ;) :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Perrow on March 20, 2012, 04:31:28 AM
Smaller vero layout, tested and working...Hope you enjoy it!!! Some ticking here... :icon_sad:

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=43793&g2_serialNumber=2)

From page 4, smaller, but I haven't checked if there's any improvements in the new layout other than the reverse polarity protection.
;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on March 20, 2012, 07:51:09 AM
They are only improvements. I mentioned that the design is of Rob!.
All pages are only improvements..., but now:
 
 - Input and output with the LDR is a circuit isolated from the rest of the circuit.
 - The DEPTH control acts only in the LED.
 - The connection of footswitch is totally different, now cuts the voltage and the guitar is completely isolated from the circuit.
 - Reverse polarity protection.
 - Cap filter.
 - Resistors for LEDs.
 
 Isn't that enough for a tiny circuit?

EDIT: ...and the DEPTH value!
 
 
 
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on March 20, 2012, 08:08:32 AM
cool... :icon_cool:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on March 20, 2012, 01:00:00 PM
My decal design ...
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/mods/tremolodecal.jpg)
EDIT:
Rob, I know do you not like the decals, ha ha!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: nascarbean_97 on March 26, 2012, 10:07:11 AM
Does the newest layout allow for the choppy trem when the depth knob is turned up?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on June 19, 2012, 04:22:11 PM
My decal design ...
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/mods/tremolodecal.jpg)
EDIT:
Rob, I know do you not like the decals, ha ha!


===============================
 
FINISHED!   :icon_lol:
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/fuzzpedal/especiales/Tremolooo.jpg)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: NazzTazz on June 20, 2012, 04:41:58 AM
My contribution: another PCB, with on-board pots.

(http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pic/27a17f8bb6ed3977c10c30d592cbe18ff57e8d15.png) (http://hfr-rehost.net/fullsize/http://self/pic/27a17f8bb6ed3977c10c30d592cbe18ff57e8d15.png)

(http://hfr-rehost.net/http://self/pic/dcd6cb2a7c50e25e0be6cc4d9bf2c5d4dfc8f751.png) (http://hfr-rehost.net/fullsize/http://self/pic/dcd6cb2a7c50e25e0be6cc4d9bf2c5d4dfc8f751.png)

Pads:

G = Ground
A = Audio (input + output)
V = Vcc
D = (Led) Disable: pull to ground to force led off.

Should be used with a DPDT footswitch (at least), one circuit connecting A pad to In/Out jacks (when effect is on), the other pulling D pad to ground (when effect is off).
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 20, 2012, 04:47:56 AM
@nazz: cool, nice pro looking layout..
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: NazzTazz on June 20, 2012, 04:55:54 AM
Thanks :)

My soldering iron actually died this morning (wth ? didn't know it could happen), so I'll route pcb for diystompboxes today.
Im not sure about pots orientation tho...
Sidenote: protecting diode (1N4001+) should be soldered directly on DC jack.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 20, 2012, 05:38:06 AM
just as a reference , this was the one i built in the end..(final version) .works fine as clean trem, but not too aufait with distortion though ok...

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/TS555TINYTREM.gif.html

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Joecool85 on June 21, 2012, 11:15:25 AM
FINISHED!   :icon_lol:
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/fuzzpedal/especiales/Tremolooo.jpg)


I know it's been a while, but how did you get that looking so nice?  Is it a clear slide on decal type of thing?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on June 21, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
FINISHED!   :icon_lol:
 

I know it's been a while, but how did you get that looking so nice?  Is it a clear slide on decal type of thing?

There are two vinyls: one is white for the the background, other is black  for the text.

EDIT:
Sticker: http://www.fuzzface.es/fuzzpedal/especiales/Tremolo-Rugeb.pdf
 
Schematic: http://www.fuzzface.es/fuzzpedal/especiales/tremolo-sch.jpg
 
Veroboard: http://www.fuzzface.es/fuzzpedal/especiales/tremolo-vero.jpg
 
 :icon_wink:

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on June 21, 2012, 12:48:21 PM
@rugeb:   yes i do like it... ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: rugeb on June 21, 2012, 12:54:35 PM
@rugeb:   yes i do like it... ;)

THANKS ROB!
 
 :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: RandomGlitch on December 18, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
Hello! I've been reading this thread with great interest, and I've put together a version of this according to the various schematics on here.

What I've got is this:

My questions about it are these:
1. I see no limiting resistor on the RATE pot on any of the schematics - so the rate can go so high that the pulses can no longer be heard. The LED looks to be just on.  I'm pretty sure the duty cycle will be some way off 50% too.  Does anyone use a limiting resistor to cap the top speed of the rate control?

2. Would the (a) circuit shown here from the datasheet which keeps a 50% duty cycle be better? I'd never seen this configuration before. It uses fewer components, so why not use that?

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/jimpom/19-12-20128-34-43AM_zps2c4ba609.png)

3. I'd like to increase the volume ever so slightly. Some folks mentioned it earlier in the tread.  I was thinking of using a simple 2N3904-based buffer (from Beavis Audio) before the input. - has anyone actually added a buffer to theirs?


Thanks!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Lizard King on December 19, 2012, 08:20:30 AM
WOW.  Nice, simple circuit.  I've been working on a Tremulous variant but I think I'm going to throw this one together too.  I love tremolo!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: gcme93 on March 10, 2013, 06:02:36 PM
Tiny trem time!

Awesome design, can I get a second pair of eyes to check this over before I build it? I'm aiming for 1590A! First tiny build

(http://s10.postimage.org/h0mash60p/Buffered_Tiny_Trem.png)

Thanks,

George
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: gcme93 on March 13, 2013, 02:49:18 PM
eurgh completely forgot to bias the input and add decoupling :( feel like a bit of an idiot, ignore the unbiased nature of the schem, I'll add that in off board.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 10, 2013, 11:52:57 PM
I finally ended up breadboarding the Tiny Trem circuit and it seems to be working as intended, as long as I use it by itself or in front of other pedals as the first effect in the signal chain...As soon as I connect an overdrive or fuzz before the tiny trem, it seems like the Tiny Trem circuit gets completely ignored, like it gets bypassed or something, cuz you won't even hear the clicking sound in the background...To me it seems like when my distorted signal gets to the input of the LDR it just goes right through the output unaffected by the LDR/LED/555 circuit, since the input and output are connected to the same leg of the LDR on my breadboard...I have no dpdt switch connected at the moment...I'm doing all testing by connecting my overdrive pedals directly into the Breadboarded Tiny Trem circuit...This behavior makes no sense to me, as I've seen this type of effect connected after most pedals and the stuttering is very noticeable on any effect before this, as it should be chop all other effects on and off that are before it....A Tremolo effect should work best around the end of the signal chain, but right now for me it's only working as the first effect in the signal chain.....Does anyone have an idea why this is happening or what my issue is?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on April 11, 2013, 12:00:42 AM
I finally ended up breadboarding the Tiny Trem circuit and it seems to be working as intended, as long as I use it by itself or in front of other pedals as the first effect in the signal chain...As soon as I connect an overdrive or fuzz before the tiny trem, it seems like the Tiny Trem circuit gets completely ignored, like it gets bypassed or something, cuz you won't even hear the clicking sound in the background...To me it seems like when my distorted signal gets to the input of the LDR it just goes right through the output unaffected by the LDR/LED/555 circuit, since the input and output are connected to the same leg of the LDR on my breadboard...I have no dpdt switch connected at the moment...I'm doing all testing by connecting my overdrive pedals directly into the Breadboarded Tiny Trem circuit...This behavior makes no sense to me, as I've seen this type of effect connected after most pedals and the stuttering is very noticeable on any effect before this, as it should be chop all other effects on and off that are before it....A Tremolo effect should work best around the end of the signal chain, but right now for me it's only working as the first effect in the signal chain.....Does anyone have an idea why this is happening or what my issue is?

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102137.msg905933#msg905933
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 11, 2013, 01:40:17 AM
Schematic VERIFIED, and it sounds cool!
 
 
(http://www.fuzzface.es/mods/tremolo-sch.jpg)
 


I did Rob's version of the Tiny Trem, and now I did this version...They both work well on their own or as the first effect in your signal chain, but as soon as I turn a distortion or other effect ON connected in front of the Tiny Trem, the Tiny Trem gets completely bypassed and doesn't chop the signal....Has anyone else here realized that the TT is a great little circuit, but it seems like it can't be used at the end of your pedal chain with other effects ON in front of it, which is where you would normally want a Tremolo effect?...I'd like to be able to get a strong choppy killswitch stutter with a distortion in front of the TT, but the TT just gets bypassed...If I connect the TT first in the chain, then the effect is somewhat noticeable with other pedals after it, but the chopping on and off effect isn't very intense...Anyone know of a simple way to fix this issue?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on April 11, 2013, 01:54:30 AM
(http://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/trem_fig4.png)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41822&g2_serialNumber=2)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 11, 2013, 02:24:11 AM
(http://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/trem_fig4.png)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41822&g2_serialNumber=2)

Awesome!...Problem solved!...Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 11, 2013, 05:56:26 AM
cool nice one art... ;)


@jason , so is it behaving ''choppy'' now?...after your distortion?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on April 11, 2013, 07:12:12 AM
Art's nicely drawn diagram is pretty much what we were saying to Jason in his original thread....

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102137.40

i.e. put a resistor in front of the LDR (or roll the guitar's vol pot down), but be aware that doing so will result in significant a loss of signal volume (which may or may not matter depending on what follows)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 11, 2013, 07:22:12 AM
ahh i see..

so would a buffer on the out recover it ok?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on April 11, 2013, 08:21:29 AM
so would a buffer on the out recover it ok?

an amplifier would....but then it's not really 'a tiny tremolo' & you'd have to be rename it to .....  "tremolo" (which isn't anywhere near as snazzy)

To keep it tiny & make it more choppy, you could have the 555 drive an N mosfet gate instead of an LED ....and place the mosfet where the LDR is in art's diagram above....and place something like a 1k resistor for that top left series resistor. Then you'd have almost no signal loss & it ought to work on low impedance signals as well as high impeance raw guitar signals. You could call it tiny killer :-)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 11, 2013, 12:51:21 PM
cool nice one art... ;)


@jason , so is it behaving ''choppy'' now?...after your distortion?

Yes...Works great after the distortion now, chops are intense...I like!....That's what was missing, to connect 1 LDR leg to input and the other LDR leg to the output with the 10K resistor to GND...You should update this to make the TT usable after other effects....Great simple circuit.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on April 11, 2013, 01:59:24 PM
Good job, Art!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on April 11, 2013, 02:09:16 PM
...as I said a good while back in this very thread...

without some form of in line (series) resistance preceding it, it cant/wont work as a potential divider.

Think about it..... if your AC signal coming in is 500mv & the LDR is 1M , then 500mV is dropped across 1M, if the LDR then drops to 10k that same 500mV is still dropped across 10k - so, the signal voltage remains the same at the top of the LDR .....what changes with the LDR changing resistance is the current through the LDR to ground (& might account for why there is so much clicking going on for some?)

If you roll the volume pot off a little on the guitar then that provides the necessary in series resistance for the LDR/rheostat to work as a potential divider.

Good work Art though (as they say a picture is worth a thousand confusing words!)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 11, 2013, 02:51:20 PM
...as I said a good while back in this very thread...

without some form of in line (series) resistance preceding it, it cant/wont work as a potential divider.

Think about it..... if your AC signal coming in is 500mv & the LDR is 1M , then 500mV is dropped across 1M, if the LDR then drops to 10k that same 500mV is still dropped across 10k - so, the signal voltage remains the same at the top of the LDR .....what changes with the LDR changing resistance is the current through the LDR to ground (& might account for why there is so much clicking going on for some?)

If you roll the volume pot off a little on the guitar then that provides the necessary in series resistance for the LDR/rheostat to work as a potential divider.


Good work Art though (as they say a picture is worth a thousand confusing words!)

Haha...True...I guess what you said before was a little too technical for me...I needed it illustrated, but thanks Gurner, Art, Rob, and Jdansti... :)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 12, 2013, 03:02:09 AM
@jason, if you post up the new revised schematic, i'll knock up a new layout ok.

 cheers. 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 12, 2013, 11:38:35 AM
so would a buffer on the out recover it ok?

an amplifier would....but then it's not really 'a tiny tremolo' & you'd have to be rename it to .....  "tremolo" (which isn't anywhere near as snazzy)

To keep it tiny & make it more choppy, you could have the 555 drive an N mosfet gate instead of an LED ....and place the mosfet where the LDR is in art's diagram above....and place something like a 1k resistor for that top left series resistor. Then you'd have almost no signal loss & it ought to work on low impedance signals as well as high impeance raw guitar signals. You could call it tiny killer :-)

I'd like to try this...Would the IRF520 Motorola N-Channel MOSFET do the trick?.....Do you think you could whip up a quick drawing showing exactly where the legs of the transistor should connect?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on April 12, 2013, 12:23:38 PM
I'd like to try this...Would the IRF520 Motorola N-Channel MOSFET do the trick?.....Do you think you could whip up a quick drawing showing exactly where the legs of the transistor should connect?

I was initially thinking this...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1000njn.jpg)
(I couldn't be bothered knocking it up neatly like art - I'm a back of a ciggie packet kind guy at heart...and I don't even smoke which means every time I have an idea I have to go & buy a packet of 20 cigarettes!)

...but upon reflection it'll probably 'click' (due to bleed through of the 555 driving waveform & the intercapacitance of the gate/drain)....better going with photo fet like the H11F1

the idea behind it is that mosfet acts as a on/off switch (in sympathy with the 555 driving waveform)...when it's on (gate hi) it's essentially a closed switch and shorts the signal to ground (just like a kill switch), when it's off (gate low), the pseudo mosfet 'switch' is open allowing your guitar signal to pass onwards unfettered. The end result will be a very aggressive choppy signal (i.e. changing from 0% guitar signal -> 99.5% signal-> 0% guitar signal)...but like I say, unless you go with the photo fet, you're likely gonna get click-age!
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 12, 2013, 12:50:44 PM
I'd like to try this...Would the IRF520 Motorola N-Channel MOSFET do the trick?.....Do you think you could whip up a quick drawing showing exactly where the legs of the transistor should connect?

I was initially thinking this...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1000njn.jpg)
(I couldn't be bothered knocking it up neatly like art - I'm a back of a ciggie packet kind guy at heart...and I don't even smoke which means every time I have an idea I have to go & buy a packet of 20 cigarettes!)

...but upon reflection it'll probably 'click' (due to bleed through of the 555 driving waveform & the intercapacitance of the gate/drain)....better going with photo fet like the H11F1

the idea behind it is that mosfet acts as a on/off switch (in sympathy with the 555 driving waveform)...when it's on (gate hi) it's essentially a closed switch and shorts the signal to ground (just like a kill switch), when it's off (gate low), the pseudo mosfet 'switch' is open allowing your guitar signal to pass onwards unfettered. The end result will be a very aggressive choppy signal (i.e. changing from 0% guitar signal -> 99.5% signal-> 0% guitar signal)...but like I say, unless you go with the photo fet, you're likely gonna get click-age!

Ok, so if I try an H11F1 Photo FET, where would each leg go and would this result in less volume loss and more killswitch chop?...I'm assuming that legs 3 & 5 aren't connected, so I would use the Anode and Cathode legs the same way you connected the N Mosfet and then just use 1 of the Output Term. legs or both?...If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could do another quick drawing with the H11F1 connected?...Thanks again
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on April 12, 2013, 01:17:47 PM
Ok, so if I try an H11F1 Photo FET, where would each leg go and would this result in less volume loss and more killswitch chop?...I'm assuming that legs 3 & 5 aren't connected, so I would use the Anode and Cathode legs the same way you connected the N Mosfet and then just use 1 of the Output Term. legs or both?...If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could do another quick drawing with the H11F1 connected?...Thanks again

here you go...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1001.jpg)

You might get away with less than 20k for that top resistor (the 'on' resistance of the HF11 is quoted as about 200hms, so that ought to yield approx 100:1 attenuation)...you'd need to experiment to suit your own ears/situation (ideally, you want it as low as you can get away with).

I don't ever dabble with the 555 (I'm an MCU kind of guy & use PICs to generate square waves when needed)...so the 330R series limiting resistor was just a stab in the dark ...but it'll should get you up & away.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on April 12, 2013, 01:46:21 PM
Ok, so if I try an H11F1 Photo FET, where would each leg go and would this result in less volume loss and more killswitch chop?...I'm assuming that legs 3 & 5 aren't connected, so I would use the Anode and Cathode legs the same way you connected the N Mosfet and then just use 1 of the Output Term. legs or both?...If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could do another quick drawing with the H11F1 connected?...Thanks again

here you go...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1001.jpg)

You might get away with less than 20k for that top resistor (the 'on' resistance of the HF11 is quoted as about 200hms, so that ought to yield approx 100:1 attenuation)...you'd need to experiment to suit your own ears/situation (ideally, you want it as low as you can get away with).

I don't ever dabble with the 555 (I'm an MCU kind of guy & use PICs to generate square waves when needed)...so the 330R series limiting resistor was just a stab in the dark ...but it'll should get you up & away.


Thanks!...I'll order a couple H11F1's and experiment...I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: artifus on April 12, 2013, 06:20:28 PM
just for the record - i didn't draw anything here, i just typed 'simple tremolo circuit' into google image search and those two popped up on the first page. if you right click and select 'open image in new tab' you will see where they are linked from.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on April 13, 2013, 02:13:44 AM
Most of us have germanium diodes in our parts bins.  Has anyone tried using a germanium diode in reverse bias and coupled with a super bright LED as a chopper? See this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hf25oxkrypwn3ev/Photo%20Germanium%20Diode.pdf

I got this from thecomedians post about old semiconductor books:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102342.msg905695;topicseen#new
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on April 13, 2013, 06:46:18 AM
^ mad diode use.. 8)


nice links to those old books...cheers man. 8)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: CarlosP on April 13, 2013, 07:38:59 AM
(http://www.strymon.net/wp-content/uploads/trem_fig4.png)

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41822&g2_serialNumber=2)

with this overall can use this:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KOKYv_xUUYg/T3QcAfx9c7I/AAAAAAAAAY4/AAzRh5R3m2k/s1600/square+to+sine.bmp)

This do that the wave gives a saw/sine on the led. i did test it, and doesn't generate the littel pop in the amp...

I just wanted to bring that data c:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on May 17, 2013, 05:07:52 PM
Ok, so if I try an H11F1 Photo FET, where would each leg go and would this result in less volume loss and more killswitch chop?...I'm assuming that legs 3 & 5 aren't connected, so I would use the Anode and Cathode legs the same way you connected the N Mosfet and then just use 1 of the Output Term. legs or both?...If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could do another quick drawing with the H11F1 connected?...Thanks again

here you go...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1001.jpg)

You might get away with less than 20k for that top resistor (the 'on' resistance of the HF11 is quoted as about 200hms, so that ought to yield approx 100:1 attenuation)...you'd need to experiment to suit your own ears/situation (ideally, you want it as low as you can get away with).

I don't ever dabble with the 555 (I'm an MCU kind of guy & use PICs to generate square waves when needed)...so the 330R series limiting resistor was just a stab in the dark ...but it'll should get you up & away.


Hey, I finally got around to trying the H11F1...Basically there is no volume drop, and it has a very intense chop, but it has a much louder clicking sound than the VTL5C3 Vactrol...

On another note I ended up buying a Mad Doctor Stutter by IdiotBox since it was $99...When I opened it up, I noticed that it had a VTL5C1 with a regular 555, and an L78L05 to run on 5V...I also noticed that the input was connected to one leg of the LDR, and the output to the other leg, but there was no resistor going to GND...Which I had to add a 10K resistor to GND in order for the Chop effect to affect other effects connected before it....Finally I compared side by side with my breadboarded VTL5C3, 555 running on 9V Vs. the Mad Doctor Stutter which is a VTL5C1, 555/L78L05 running on 5V....And with mine you can clearly hear volume loss, whereas with the Mad Docter Stutter (VTL5C1, 555, L78L05/5V combo) I don't feel any signal loss at all.....Anyone have any idea why that is?...Is there much difference with using a VTL5C3 or VTL5C1?...Would the 5V Vs. 9V make a difference here?....The Mad Doc Stutter doesn't have the 10K resistor or any going to GND on the input or output and it seems to work just fine after other effects, plus it has no perceivable volume loss....Can anyone explain this to me?...Thanks
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on May 17, 2013, 06:35:36 PM
I just re-tested my breadboarded circuit, this time without the 10K resistor on the output going to GND...Without that resistor there is no perceivable volume drop, and my chopping does chop effects connected before it, it just sounds more like a light Tremolo chop, not so intense...I'd like it to sound more intense, practically shutting the signal off and on....I also tried running my curcuit on 5V by using an LM7805 I had around, and this didn't affect the intensity of the chop either....All this with the VTL5C3...I'm starting to think that maybe the VTL5C1 could make a difference, if not some resistor values?.....Anyone here know what I can do to make my signal chopping more intense?...The H11F1 would've been perfect if it wasn't for the clicking, it clicks/pops a lot more than the LDR/LED Vactrols....I guess I'd like to know if the Vactrols could make a difference before I go and order a VTL5C1, cuz they're not that cheap?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on May 17, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
when you say "without the 10k resistor" I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying   ....what 10k resistor?

Also re the ticking...personally, I only dabbled with the H11F1  briefly it was extremely quiet (drive my a PIC MCU)...are you sure the ticking isn't the 555? (which are notorious, unless implemented well)

Did you try a higher value of resistor (for the one I labelled 20k? in my hand scrawl)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on May 18, 2013, 12:42:44 AM
when you say "without the 10k resistor" I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying   ....what 10k resistor?

Also re the ticking...personally, I only dabbled with the H11F1  briefly it was extremely quiet (drive my a PIC MCU)...are you sure the ticking isn't the 555? (which are notorious, unless implemented well)

Did you try a higher value of resistor (for the one I labelled 20k? in my hand scrawl)


I only tried 20K and 10K for the 20K? of the H11F1...Should I try something like 100K there?...I don't think it's the 555 ticking, because I used the same 555 CMOS with the VTL5C3 and it doesn't tick like it does with the H11F1...It would be great if I could do this with the H11F1, but I would need to figure out how to get rid of the louder ticking sounds....

The 10K resistor I'm talking about was the one I originally had to implement from output to GND for my chopping to be more intense after other effect pedals, but a 10K also attenuates the signal a bit...Later I found that 100K attenuated the signal a little less, but the chops don't feel as intense...

By any chance, do you know what the main difference is between the VTL5C3 and the VTL5C1?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Gurner on May 18, 2013, 08:42:08 AM

I only tried 20K and 10K for the 20K? of the H11F1...Should I try something like 100K there?...I don't think it's the 555 ticking, because I used the same 555 CMOS with the VTL5C3 and it doesn't tick like it does with the H11F1...It would be great if I could do this with the H11F1, but I would need to figure out how to get rid of the louder ticking sounds....

So just to make sure I'm understanding...you are saying that there's...

1. No tremolo effect
2. Not much tremolo effect

The strength of tremolo effect all depends on the lowest resistance that the H11F1 becomes (ie when gated on)....in combination with that 20k resistor. Ideally you need to find out the 'on' state resistance of the H11F1 ...you could do this quite easily by say applying say 1.5V battery at the input (vs a guitar signal), then manually gate the H11F1 on & off & noting down the junction voltage down for each scneario...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1001mzm.jpg)

It may well be that the H11F1 is not being gated on sufficiently....is your gating voltage sufficently high? Have you tried taking the value of the 330R down (which was just a starter) ...this will ensure the H11F1 is gated on stronger (which will lower its resistance)...you could also try taking the value of the 20k resistor up (it was a guess-timate baesed on the H11F1's datasheet spec which has its 'on' resistance stated as 200 ohms)

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jasonmatthew911 on May 18, 2013, 10:13:27 PM

I only tried 20K and 10K for the 20K? of the H11F1...Should I try something like 100K there?...I don't think it's the 555 ticking, because I used the same 555 CMOS with the VTL5C3 and it doesn't tick like it does with the H11F1...It would be great if I could do this with the H11F1, but I would need to figure out how to get rid of the louder ticking sounds....

So just to make sure I'm understanding...you are saying that there's...

1. No tremolo effect
2. Not much tremolo effect

The strength of tremolo effect all depends on the lowest resistance that the H11F1 becomes (ie when gated on)....in combination with that 20k resistor. Ideally you need to find out the 'on' state resistance of the H11F1 ...you could do this quite easily by say applying say 1.5V battery at the input (vs a guitar signal), then manually gate the H11F1 on & off & noting down the junction voltage down for each scneario...

(http://hostmypicture.com/images/1001mzm.jpg)

It may well be that the H11F1 is not being gated on sufficiently....is your gating voltage sufficently high? Have you tried taking the value of the 330R down (which was just a starter) ...this will ensure the H11F1 is gated on stronger (which will lower its resistance)...you could also try taking the value of the 20k resistor up (it was a guess-timate baesed on the H11F1's datasheet spec which has its 'on' resistance stated as 200 ohms)



I'm saying with my VTL5C3 my Tremolo effect is noticeable, but it's not that intense or as loud as the Mad Doc Tremolo, which consists of a VTL5C1, a 555, Four 1K resistors, L78L05 with .01uf cap for 5V operation, a 10uf Cap, a 100K Linear Rate Pot, and a 100K Linear Ratio Pot, and that's it...With just those parts it doesn't really have any perceivable volume loss, and the on/off chops are very intense, which is what I've been trying to get with the VTL5C3, but haven't been able to.

I did notice in the VTL datasheets, that the VTL5C1 has a 100db dynamic Range and 50M off resistance, whereas the VTL5C3 only has 75db Dynamic range and 10M off resistance....By what I'm hearing, I'm really starting to think that the VTL5C1 is what will make the difference for the chops to be more intense and slightly louder...I've tried a bunch of different values, but in the end there is probably nothing wrong with my circuit, just that it's not as intense as I'd like it to be...But the VTL5C1 in the Mad Doctor Stutter that only has a few parts as stated above seems to have the more intense ON/OFF that I'm looking for....

Don't you think that the VTL5C1 can make the difference since it has 25db more dynamic range than the VTL5C3, and it seems to sound more intense in my comparisons?

I've given up on the H11F1 because I've tried a bunch of different values, but still can't get rid of the ticking...There just seems to be less ticking issues using the VTL Vactrols...And with the VTL5C1, volume loss doesn't seem to be an issue.

Has anyone else here tried both VTL5C1  and VTL5C3 in the Tiny Trem cicuit, notice any differences?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: markeebee on May 19, 2013, 11:48:34 AM
I thought it would be interesting to use this circuit instead of the oscillator part of the Vibracaster, so that instead of wiggling the signal to ground it wiggles the second cathode (pin 8) of the valve.

Bugger me.  It works quite well.  No ticking to report.  Which is weird because I'm running it at 12v - I put a 10k trimmer between the 12V and pin 1 of the 555 and I expected to have to drop it quite a lot as Rob mentioned earlier in this thread.  But it seems to work perfectly well with the trimmer turned fully up.  The other weird thing is that the first 20% of the trimmer rotation slows the rate of the wiggle, the next 20% reduces the chop, and the rest removes the wiggle as you might expect.

Also, I used a 1kB rate pot in series with a 470R resistor, otherwise most of the range of wiggle was unuseable.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Hallmar on May 29, 2013, 07:22:10 AM
How does the buffered version work with Distortion?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on June 04, 2013, 02:25:22 AM
At the risk of being accused of double posting, after a request on another thread, I'm providing my Pulsinator build docs here since this thread inspired it.   Thanks to Rob and everyone else who's contributed to this.

I was in a big rush when I did this project, trying to meet the deadline on Thanksgiving day while doing family stuff. As such, I had to make some last minute changes. When I looked at my files last night, I couldn't find the very last change, so I took the last version I had, compared it to the actual build, and revised the PCB and layout art as shown below. (I hope it's right!  If anyone sees any errors, please let me know).

Here are some tips:

1) I replaced D4 with a jumper. I don't recall exactly why, but I think that it helped keep the effect really choppy in rotary switch position #1.

2) To keep the 555 timer from ticking, you need a big cap connected very close to Pin 8. I learned this from Jon Patton (Midwayfair) very near the deadline, so I modified the PCB after it was etched to accommodate the cap. The problem is that there's not much room next to the 555 for a gigantic cap, so I had to mount it off-board. The problem with that is now I had long wires connecting the cap to the board!  I might have been able to get by with a 1000μF cap mounted directly next to the chip, but since I didn't have room and had to mount it off board, I had to increase the value to 4700μF.

I've moved C10 to a location on the PCB that should give you more room. See the last two images below.  I haven't physically tried the version with the new cap location, so you should probably print out the layout and test your fit on paper before etching.

3) Re the LED/LDR combo, I just butt the LED and LDR together inside a piece of heat shrink tubing. Make sure you don't allow stray light to hit the LDR during testing or after it's boxed up.

4) You can use a CMOS version of the 555, but I tried both versions and found no difference.

5) You might want to breadboard this puppy before commiting to a PCB.

6) If you decide that you like just one of the smoothing filter settings, you could hard-wire it and skip the rotary switch.

7) You could replace the VR2 trimmer with a fixed resistor as all it does is determine the brightness if the rate indicator LED.

8 )  See the schematic for the functions of the other pots.

 I welcome comments and suggestions.

(http://i.pgu.me/VWDOraZs_original.png)

(http://i.pgu.me/hWgzwf2Y_original.png)

(http://i.pgu.me/CFHhMgVD_original.png)

(http://i.pgu.me/pnhB6pFN_original.png)

(http://i.pgu.me/reITzV6+_original.png)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: prabuchresno on September 29, 2013, 01:06:06 PM
cool nice one art... ;)


@jason , so is it behaving ''choppy'' now?...after your distortion?

Yes...Works great after the distortion now, chops are intense...I like!....That's what was missing, to connect 1 LDR leg to input and the other LDR leg to the output with the 10K resistor to GND...You should update this to make the TT usable after other effects....Great simple circuit.

Hi Jason, thx for your explanation of Art's picture. I've already change the schematic like yours, its cool. But the problem is if I turn it off, all effect in the chain is dead (I put this tremolo just before amp), so I have to always turn it on, fortunately in max position there is no pulse. Do you have any sugestion to fix this problem? thx
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Drewmeyer on November 07, 2013, 07:13:28 PM
So I'm looking to build the very original version of this tiny tremolo and just had a few questions about the vero layout (sorry if these were answered somewhere else throughout the thread, but I don't have time to look through 41 pages). First, how are the LEDs oriented? On the vero layout I can only 1 place where the 9v is attached. Is this the black or red wire from a battery snap? And where would the other wire go to complete the circuit?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 08, 2013, 03:41:59 AM
@drew:

you want this one..

all leds have + above..

9v red wire..

ground = black wire ( goes to bottom row right side of the cut ..)

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/ts555cnvero.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1


watch those cuts under IC, and 2 jumpers (blue)  there is a blue jumper under the IC  from 2-6....

rob.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Drewmeyer on November 08, 2013, 11:07:51 PM
@drew:

you want this one..

all leds have + above..

9v red wire..

ground = black wire ( goes to bottom row right side of the cut ..)

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/chickpea/ts555cnvero.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1


watch those cuts under IC, and 2 jumpers (blue)  there is a blue jumper under the IC  from 2-6....

rob.

Oh awesome, thanks! This really became a pretty cool little tremolo pedal. One problem, though. I got the led to turn on, but it won't blink. What should I check that could be wrong?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 09, 2013, 03:07:14 PM
if you have tremolo then at least the led facing the ldr should be blinking...

do you get tremolo?..

Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Drewmeyer on November 09, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
if you have tremolo then at least the led facing the ldr should be blinking...

do you get tremolo?..


Well actually I haven't put in the ldr yet. I just made the blinking led circuit to make sure it worked correct before putting in the ldr. One thing to note. I didn't have a 4.7k pot so I replaced it with a 4.7k resistor, thinking I could get a sort of fixed speed, and now the leds blink one time and then remain off. Is that incorrect to sub the pot for a resistor, and could that be my problem.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on November 10, 2013, 04:14:38 AM
you will need a pot, otherwise you may as well just have used  a flashing led.   :)

have you got a breadboard?..to experiment with
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Drewmeyer on November 14, 2013, 07:52:51 PM
you will need a pot, otherwise you may as well just have used  a flashing led.   :)

have you got a breadboard?..to experiment with

Ah, well I see why it doesn't work then. I can't seem to find any 4.7K pots. Would a similar value like 5k work in its place?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: garcho on November 14, 2013, 09:06:05 PM
^ Absolutely.

Read this about the basics of potentiometers (http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/Pots/). (Dano/Beavis Audio)

Then read this about 'taper' (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm).  (R.G./GEO)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Drewmeyer on November 14, 2013, 09:47:35 PM
^ Absolutely.

Read this about the basics of potentiometers (http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/Pots/). (Dano/Beavis Audio)

Then read this about 'taper' (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm).  (R.G./GEO)
Thanks, super informative! One thing though, why does a pot work while a resistor does not? It seems like they would be doing the same job in this case.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: yurumbel on December 11, 2013, 07:01:53 AM
DEADASTRONAUT:
I really like your project "A trem, a wah and a tremwah", I tried to do, but I not sure about the type and values of the pots, can you help me, please? best regards!

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/atremawahatremwah2.gif)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: deadastronaut on December 11, 2013, 07:08:38 AM
that is 'unverified'  i never got around to building it....build a your own risk. :)

try a 22k for wah..

and a 4.7k/5k/10k for speed.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: yurumbel on December 11, 2013, 08:26:56 AM
Thanks man! I hope it works
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: monksanto on January 30, 2014, 04:50:17 PM
Hi, sorry for stupid question, but I can find the 555 chip everywhere but I'm confused about which ones are cmos & which ones are standard etc? Is there a particular part number I should be looking for, such as "TLC555CP", for instance?

[EDIT: Well, I answered my 1st question, anything with a "7" or a "C" in the name is a CMOS chip!]

Also, would this optocoupler (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15396) be suitable instead of separate red LED/LDR/heatshrink etc?

Thanks.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: duck_arse on January 31, 2014, 10:36:58 AM
at 99c it couldn't hurt to try it. it is often referred to as a vactrol and has the internals you need.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: monksanto on January 31, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Well I snagged them on special, 50 for $20, I guess I'll soon find out if they work in this circuit!  ;)
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: duck_arse on February 01, 2014, 09:11:05 AM
50 you say? looks like you've got lots and lots of modulation experimentation ahead of you.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Mario44 on February 04, 2014, 12:08:11 PM
Very good idea.
Just build one for testing and got fried 2 leds on it :D
edit: didn't mean mods, just stock version
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: duck_arse on February 05, 2014, 09:33:04 AM
(http://i.pgu.me/VWDOraZs_original.png)

@mario - if using the circuit above, put a resistor 220R will do, between each of the D1 and D2 led K and ground. this will then provide some current limit if you wind the trimpot all the way. no more blowing leds.

you must always have a current limit resistor for a led, unless it's as a clipper circuit, where the current will be constrained by other factors.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Mario44 on February 05, 2014, 12:43:07 PM
Yes, finaly I've put any small resistance there and new LEDs after I burned old ones :icon_lol:
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on February 05, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Sorry-I should have thought of that. I think I made VR2 variable to be able to adjust the brightness of the indicator LED, but it really is overkill.  A fixed 1k-4.7k should be fine for VR2.

I haven't burned out the LEDs (yet), but a small resistor in series with VR3 is a good idea. Just make sure you still have enough light to activate LDR1.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Mario44 on February 05, 2014, 03:06:58 PM
BTW, what type of LDR do you use? Whats their resistance when max and min light is on it?
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Jdansti on February 05, 2014, 05:08:30 PM
I just used a generic LDR from Tayda like this:
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=LDR

If I remember correctly, the dark reading was around 1M or more and the lighted reading was around 200R-400R. One reason I used an external pot for VR3 was to allow for a little fudge factor in the LED and LDR specs.

I coupled the LED and LDR with black heat shrink tubing.
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: jokersmile32 on March 01, 2020, 03:46:17 AM
exclusive to diystompbox...its nice to give something back!...even if its simple :icon_rolleyes:

hi guys....been twiddling with bits again..'oh no not again i hear you all cry'!!!!...... :icon_rolleyes:
heres a very very simple one knob tiny tremolo?. it works great!..and is only 6 components.....thats it!..
i started off wanting to control the speed of a 555 with led..then i thought well why not use an ldr to break the
sound up...here ya go!.....be nice with a chorus /delay....im quite pleased with it...its my first 555 project ever!.
so be kind... :icon_redface:
SOUNDCLIP...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem1.mp3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tinytrem1.mp3)


(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/tiny%20trem.gif)

ive still got it on a tiny breadboard but the above vero will work...going to try a dimming mod too...as well as on and off..
for hard or soft...

 i know there are plenty of tremolo's much better than these out there to build ,but i enjoy the pain and pleasure
of creating!!!!i find it much more rewarding than simply copying....thanks for stopping by.. :icon_cool:




Where is the Vero layout???
Title: Re: tiny tremoloOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Kipper4 on March 01, 2020, 04:42:13 AM
Maybe this


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/RAwTP0yvI0tqh-zbRALfLBpTIbra9vlMOPD8KxFSbZFRptNNwDGiWXYV6D0UfcLtqCYbFUP-AnL1m-PY9xDjfRq81TkqD5RXaw8wG5JjCL9QMVt2