This should be a good topic for learners like myself and potential pedal buyers that want to spring for something nice:
OK so I make stomp boxes. Pretty good ones. A germanium fuzz that self oscillates with an internal and external feedback loop, A duel metal distortion with "bit crushing" and some unique octave dives and drives, A germanium/zener overdrive designed after the prokon zd-1 and made especially for organs and electric piano. I sell all of these here and there locally at modest and low prices. These are just basic stomp boxes. They are sturdy. WAY sturdy. I have a guy who is interested in something "boutique" though so i decided to learn how to upgrade and make something a little fancier.
My current formula for all my boxes:
2n3904 transistors or assorted germanium transistors and some ics (555, 556, 386, 741)
germanium and zener diodes
ceramic disc and polarized caps
i put everything tightly on perf board
i use stranded .22 gauge wire
typical dp3t true bypass
hammond enclosures usually left blank or spraypaint and clear coat.
What can be improved on this? What are the best ways to get intricate art on a pedal? What is good paint to use? How do you condition it to make it scratch proof and get that boutique "shine" that pops out. I want the first one to be a clone as well and on a printed board so what is a good schematic to use (something super weird) and where is the best place to get circuit boards printed. I wouldn't mind outsourcing that detail to another company. Also is there a fancier/better way to wire true bypass? AND SO MANY OTHER QUESTIONS! BUT LETS NOT FORGET THE MAIN QUESTION: What Constitutes A "Boutique" Grade Pedal?
It sounds like you're already building "booteek" pedals. You just need to market them as such. :icon_wink:
Basically, anything that's made in small quantities, and not by wage-slaves in some third world nation.
They are named as such because in the days prior to the interwebs, guys who built pedals themselves in small batches could only sell them locally, and usually only at "Boutique" type shops. In other words, guitar center wasn't going to sell your pedals in their store, but "Fast Eddie" or any other Owner-run kind of place would.
Really there's no such thing as Boutique "Grade" in terms of quality. It really just means Hand-Made.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 11:43:19 AM
... I sell all of these here and there locally at modest and low prices...
This is where "Bootiq" differs, really.... :)
Raise your prices and you're done :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Fender3D on December 06, 2010, 12:08:55 PM
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 11:43:19 AM
... I sell all of these here and there locally at modest and low prices...
This is where "Bootiq" differs, really.... :)
Raise your prices and you're done :icon_mrgreen:
Good point, actually.
Fender3D - raise your prices by $100/pedal - bam, instant boutique. I'm not joking. There is a strange phenomenon, where a higher price makes people think that the product
must be worth that extra $100.
Of course, you should take what I say with a large grain of salt, since I've never actually sold a pedal myself. I'm just going on what I've read around here, at other gear pages, etc. A few years back, Gibson raised the prices on their guitars, in order to INCREASE sales. And it worked, if I remember correctly.
I don't want to raise my prices. Most of my pedals i sell between $160 and $75. True Bypass, little to no background noise, no switch popping. All simple designs. I want to keep it honest. I also feel like the art is half the pedal. If i am going to charge more money it has to have a sick paint job. What are some good ways to do unique and intricate art? Who is a good company for pcbs? AND WHAT IS A GOOD CLONE? All of my stuff is original so far but i want to try my hand at someone else's design. (I've built tons of fuzz face and big muff clones so something a little harder and crazier sounding)
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 12:28:25 PM
What are some good ways to do unique and intricate art?
There are about a million different ways to decorate pedals. What kind of look are you after? Can you elaborate? Give us some examples?
I really like the zvex stuff and the look of mxr pedals as well. The two that i have seen that i like the most so far are called the wolf computer and the sasquatch? really shiny and clean art.
I really like advanced circuits for PCBs and use the for bothwork and my pedal designs. They have a $33 special:
http://www.4pcb.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=130
you are allowed 60sq inches, so I repeat my pedal several times across the board. They then charge you an extra $50 for step and repeat.
so I can normally get 5 boards for about $180. I cut them up and it makes about 75 pedal pcbs for me.
Speaking pedantically.....
In the manufacturing world, 'Boutique' manufacturing means using jobbing techniques on a standard item. If you make a unique bespoke, made-to-measure shirt: that's 'Job Production'. If you make a number of identical, off-the-peg shirts: that's 'Batch Production'. If you make a single off-the-peg shirt using the same techniques as you would a unique shirt: that's 'Boutique Production'.
Less sniffily.....
"Unique and interesting art" - check out Slade's etched pedals - they scream BOOOOOTTTTTIIIIIQQQQQQ
"Good company for pcbs" - etch it yourself. It's easy, and you can develop a 'signature' layout style (BBBOOOOOOTTTTTIIIIQQQQQ!!!!)
"Good clone, crazier sounding" - anything designed by Tim Escobedo, with an added bass fuzz and feedback for BBBOOOOTTTTIIIQQQQiness
Now all you need to do is find a few emperors to buy those new clothes :icon_wink:
What about etching my own boards? Do i need ventilation? certain chemicals? im guessing copper is one?
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 12:44:54 PM
I really like the zvex stuff and the look of mxr pedals as well. The two that i have seen that i like the most so far are called the wolf computer and the sasquatch? really shiny and clean art.
A lot of the zvex stuff is hand painted. For a shiny finish, use lots of clearcoat. A few people have been reporting good results with a pour-on clear coat called "envirotex".
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 12:54:25 PM
What about etching my own boards? Do i need ventilation? certain chemicals? im guessing copper is one?
There are a bunch of ways to do an etch. Without wishing to be sniffy (again), it'll take an age for someone to give you a tutorial here, and the info is already well presented elsewhere. I'd suggest you google to find the way that suits you best.
The "Blooming Flower" comes to mind.
what is the blooming flower? looks like i will have to find PCBs design software on the cheap (free) any recommendations for a noob? CLEAR COAT! I do that to my pedals and i bake for 45 mins at 250 degrees ish. comes out scratch resistant and shiny. So I should put the art between the paint and clear coat?
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 01:11:24 PMSo I should put the art between the paint and clear coat?
Yes, that way the clear coat will protect your artwork.
It had to come to this, didn't it?
:icon_lol:
Boutique is just a small store where I live. It refers to pre-industrialisation means of production when makers would make the stuff in the back of the house and put it to display at the front window.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=boutique
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=apothecary
*Apothecaries formerly were notorious for "the assumed gravity and affectation of knowledge generally put on by the gentlemen of this profession, who are commonly as superficial in their learning as they are pedantic in their language"*
So it's more what you say about it than what's in there.
Quote from: R.G. on December 06, 2010, 01:17:33 PM
It had to come to this, didn't it?
:icon_lol:
Lol - you sound surprised... :icon_lol:
Quote from: R.G. on December 06, 2010, 01:17:33 PM
It had to come to this, didn't it?
:icon_lol:
Yo - another one.
just looking for some help
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 01:30:52 PM
just looking for some help
There a plenty of people around here who are willing to help, especially if you have specific questions.
I think one of the aggravating things for some folks around here is the repeat questions. If you have a question, chances are, it has been asked (and answered) already. The search function is your friend here, obviously. Don't be afraid to revive an old thread if need be.
Another source of aggravation seems to come from people who post questions along the lines of "What's a good way to sell lots of pedals?", which comes off as "Lots of other people had to learn this the hard way, but why don't you just teach it to me so I can do it the easy way?". This obviouisly rubs people the wrong way. They didn't work hard to make your life easier. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but it's the truth. People will gladly help you, if you ask nicely, and without an air of entitlement.
Use the search, and keep your questions specific, that's my advice.
I do use the search. I feel like I'm being nice as well as open minded. Also, all I am asking for is advice, not the best way to sell a whole bunch of pedals.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 02:37:33 PM
I do use the search. I feel like I'm being nice as well as open minded. Also, all I am asking for is advice, not the best way to sell a whole bunch of pedals.
Right.. you just want advice.. on how to make a "Boutique" pedal. Because you have a customer who will pay you for it. The thing is, there are thousands of so-called "Boutique" builders out there already, who had to learn all of this the hard way. Your question comes across as "Tell me how you did it, so I can take the short cut to get there.".
Now, I'm not saying that you feel entitled to this info, but many posters before you did seem to think that this info was "owed" to them, for some strange reason. They come on here and say "give me information, internet web site! I command you! Tell me everything you know!". It's not gonna happen, not like that. You have to dig for it.
If you want to know what constitutes a "Boutique" pedal, that's easy: buy one and take it apart, then copy what they did. Also, there are threads about marketing, pricing, etc, you just have to dig them out.
If you have specific questions concerning paint, labels, circuit boards, etc, this is the place to get those answers.
I asked those questions.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 03:11:44 PM
I asked those questions.
Did you search for your answers first? Becasue those questions have been asked (and answered) a million times around here.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I guess I'm coming across that way, aren't I? Sorry about that. Seriously, the people here are great, and they will give you lots of excellent info... but I think some of them get sick of giving the same info, over and over and over..
The topic of "boutique" has been done to death on this and other forums, so please excuse any snarkiness.
That word evokes a Pavlovian response in some and a snigger-behind-the-hand in others, and is often as simple as the difference between "sliced bread" and "Pain de Mie".
I think what you mean by "boutique" has more to do with making an attractive product that visually matches the effort that has gone into the guts.
You've made good-sounding and sturdy pedals that are built with quality readily-available parts, now you want to make them good-looking and consistent as well.
Bravo, I say; you're well on your way.
Now, as to how to do that, jefe has given you some pointers.
There are a million "little" things that can be done, no blanket techniques or one-size-fits-all tutorials, so choose your battles.
Pick a topic and search that here, you'll get your answers:
Clearcoats, pot wiring, batteries vs. external power, etching, swirl paint, "Mojo" parts, enclosures, open jacks vs. enclosed, solid vs. stranded wire, true bypass vs. FET switching, etc., etc., it's all here somewhere...
Just keep building quality stuff and be as creative as you're able, eventually it'll all come together.
P.S. Don't neglect the Pictures thread...
Yes, to piggy back on that sentiment, good on you. The problem is there isn't a "standard" which makes a pedal "boutique." It's not really a grade of pedal, it's more of a method of operation.
Overall, aside from the other criteria mentioned, you can think of boutique as catering to the individual and not the masses. "Boutique" runs are general miniscule in number, and usually for a specific purpose or customer.
Just make sure you understand the difference between "boutique," "small," and "high-end."
For example, ZVex is no boutique brand. High end? Probably. Small? Depends on your definition, but not in my opinion. Boutique? Absolutely not. Boards and pedals mass produced and built by a Taiwan company and imported. Static base product lines and large production numbers.
Fulltone, ZVex, Keeley.... these aren't really boutique pedals in the purest sense of the word. PaulC, Cusack, these are "small" builders but likely they would not profess to be "boutique," as they still try to up production numbers and climb the efficiency ladder (switching to fabbed PCBs, etc.). IMHO, "boutique" builders have no interest in efficiency, as they are specialized in small, meticulously assembled runs.
But it's a pretty malleable word to begin with.
Quote from: MikeH on December 06, 2010, 11:58:22 AM
Basically, anything that's made in small quantities, and not by wage-slaves in some third world nation...
Really there's no such thing as Boutique "Grade" in terms of quality. It really just means Hand-Made.
That's it in a nutshell...even a well-made/properly functioning DIY project could be considered boutique (especially if you liked the outcome).
Like custom-made guitars vs production models, it depends on the builder's skill & attention to detail in determining which one is actually better than the other.
Thank you all! that was informative and educational. So what everyone pretty much told me is that alot of little things go into boutique making. I pretty much have my circuits down but its all the little things that make it "boutique" ie: originality of tone, art quality and lots of hard work. GOOD TO KNOW! Though I don't think it was proper manners to attack me on the whole subject I must say, even those post opened me up to alot of good stuff. Dig deep & look hard good advice guys. I guess the main two questions I was asking was about the painting style and some good pcb resources. Thanks.
Quote from: MikeH on December 06, 2010, 01:24:21 PM
Lol - you sound surprised... :icon_lol:
Not terribly. It's just ironic that we actually have someone who admits to being a beginner while already having opened a business to sell pedals, and at the same time is unfamiliar enough with pedals and the pedal business to have to ask what "boutique" is.
To Thomas: It's not an attack. It's just a terribly old story, predating your tech work, and possibly predating your birth. It's just ironic that it keeps coming up over and over.
Sorry if some folks got the wrong impression--I know that this community is a bit tired of people who are trying to start making stompboxes as a business venture trying to get free advice/information/R&D from the forum. This kind of opens things up for things to get a bit reactionary. Good luck with your builds :)
People tend to get their knickers in a twist when someone wants to profit from the information they have shared freely for the good of the hobby/community.
If you really have what it takes to be successful at this, then I'm sure you will get everything figured out. But rather than be shocked when you get a negative response to your questions from people that have been involved in this hobby/career for a long time (Many 30+ years!!), be humble that they humor you and at least gave you the time of day.
All the best with your venture.
Thanks man. I totally get it (because of the last post. speaking of beating something into the ground.). I also should mention that I posed the question not only for myself but for beginners. I have actually worked for a couple of boutique and non boutique pedal and some synth companies assembling and designing. I make lots of pedals now but more for fun and then my friends ask me for something. This particular dude want something that looks and sounds "boutique". I was just trying to get some outside perspective. If you want some links to my work then PM me. I am not coming at this with no experience so stop being high and mighty. I also think there is criteria to a pedal that is being charged alot of money for as DIY pedals are.
am also not trying to start the poo storm that this post created. I am humble and would give anyone the time of day.
I personally wouldn't buy a "Boutique" pedal unles I had tried it and just couldn't live without it.
For the cost of some DIY pedals I would rather have a name brand multi effects unit.
To me "boutique" should be something unique either in circuit or cosmetics,that you can't get anywhere else,preferably both.
I say Brimus has the best answer.
Quote from: Brymus on December 06, 2010, 05:16:35 PM
I personally wouldn't buy a "Boutique" pedal unles I had tried it and just couldn't live without it.
For the cost of some DIY pedals I would rather have a name brand multi effects unit.
To me "boutique" should be something unique either in circuit or cosmetics,that you can't get anywhere else,preferably both.
yep!..ive bought multi effects boards for a tiny amount of money..with all the effects i really need, and more besides..
compared to ridiculous prices for one 'boutique' pedal.....i just dont get it..like £400.00 for a bloody one knob compressor wtf?.
what kind of mug buys into that?...( i know,one born every minute.)
also i f****g hate the word boutique...it just gives me an image of some poncey girls handbag shop..not anything
to do with guitars and rock thats for sure...boutique?..pahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... :icon_rolleyes:
so back to your question, 'what constitutes a 'boutique pedal' the ludicrous price. :P
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 05:10:10 PM
Thanks man. I totally get it (because of the last post. speaking of beating something into the ground.). I also should mention that I posed the question not only for myself but for beginners. I have actually worked for a couple of boutique and non boutique pedal and some synth companies assembling and designing. I make lots of pedals now but more for fun and then my friends ask me for something. This particular dude want something that looks and sounds "boutique". I was just trying to get some outside perspective. If you want some links to my work then PM me. I am not coming at this with no experience so stop being high and mighty. I also think there is criteria to a pedal that is being charged alot of money for as DIY pedals are.
Again, sorry for being such an a-hole. R.G.'s quote bears repeating:
Quote from: R.G. on December 06, 2010, 04:57:59 PM
Not terribly. It's just ironic that we actually have someone who admits to being a beginner while already having opened a business to sell pedals, and at the same time is unfamiliar enough with pedals and the pedal business to have to ask what "boutique" is.
It struck me as one of those questions: "If you have to ask, you'll never know". It's almost like asking "what constitues a
sports car", when you've already been doing mechanical work on cars. I just found it hard to believe that you were making and selling decent quality pedals, but had to ask "what's a boutique pedal?". If you're making pedals, you've obviously been doing some research on the internet - that's the only place to get this info, the parts, etc... and yet you didn't really know what a boutique pedal is. It just struck me as strange.
But enough of that, all right? I'm only posting the above to hopefully explain myself, and why I was being a bit of a jerk. I mostly just misunderstood where you were coming from, and again, I appologize.
I hope you haven't gotten a bad impression of this website. Best of luck in your learning here, and I hope I can be of some assistance.
Quote from: edvard on December 06, 2010, 03:29:19 PM
P.S. Don't neglect the Pictures thread...
Good advice. Check it out here:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=36392.14580 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=36392.14580)
Take some time to browse through that thread. It's not just a bunch of pretty pictures.. people constantly ask things like "hey, how did you do those graphics?", and most folks will graciously reveal how they did it. TONS of info in that thread.
I can't define boutique and won't attempt to. You'll have to ask your potential customer what he means by that.
However, if you are interested in finishing techniques, I would highly recommend spending some time in the pictures thread. There are some very cool ideas in there and lots of links to instructions on how to do them. It's a very big thread jam-packed with a lot of great ideas.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 05:10:10 PM
Thanks man. I totally get it (because of the last post. speaking of beating something into the ground.). I also should mention that I posed the question not only for myself but for beginners. I have actually worked for a couple of boutique and non boutique pedal and some synth companies assembling and designing. I make lots of pedals now but more for fun and then my friends ask me for something. This particular dude want something that looks and sounds "boutique". I was just trying to get some outside perspective. If you want some links to my work then PM me. I am not coming at this with no experience so stop being high and mighty. I also think there is criteria to a pedal that is being charged alot of money for as DIY pedals are.
Thomas,
First and foremost, good luck with your endeavor. In this economy you need to do whatever it takes to make sure the bills are paid and food is on the table! ;D
As far as the responses you are getting. Just like any other tightly knit creative community, you are going to get those that have been around since the dawn of creation that will "rice bowl" or defend their hard work until the end of time..... and rightly so! Also, you will get those that are their "buddies" that are going to jump on the bandwagon and do the same.... and rightly so!
You will also get those that are willing to share (to include the people mentioned previously) and those that will not.
It is up to you who you will listen to or solicit help from. Sometimes you will get it and sometimes you will not. For the most part, people on this forum are MORE THAN WILLING to help.
Personally, I am a karma kinda guy. I enjoy helping anyone with what little knowledge I can. That way, if I ever need help, I can reach out to others that I have helped in the past.
ISN'T THAT WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR ANYWAY ???
To me.... BOUTIQUE = UNIQUE.
In order to qualify as Boutique, the pedal must be creative in every way. Anyone can slap a TS circuit into a painted enclosure and call it Boutique but is it really? I say no. Where is the creativity? Where is the UNIQUENESS?
magik smoke = boutique
Don't worry about labels like "boutique".
Simply make the best quality product you can and sell it at a fair price (to the buyer AND to you).
Everything else will sort itself out.
here is something i discovered:
one coat of gloss paint (let dry completely overnight)
while you wait for that make a nicely detailed rubber stamp. (you can get a stamp kit from the local art store for fairly cheap)
another coat of gloss paint on the enclosure but don't let it dry completely
use color box ink (i have tried many stamp inks and this one works the best) and place the stamp on the mostly dried surface.
Once this layer is completely dry spray a light light light coat of clear coat. (if you use too much the stamp ink will run)
let this dry. after this is done spray another coat of clear coat( a little heavier)
once this is dry then bake for about 45 minutes (ish) between 200 and 300 degrees.
This gives the pedal a great, shiny and scratch resistant finish! IT ALSO LOOKS EMBOSSED!
I THINK I FOUND MY SYSTEM! ITS A LITTLE BARBARIC BUT LOOKS GREAT!
no pic?
I got a couple of pics but i am unable to get them off my camera right now. I plan on posting them once they have pedals in them though. Looks pretty good though. My wife made a cute little bumblebee stamp and i used that. Im going to make a tube pedal to go into it in celebration of making them look presentable.
To quote myself from a previous post Boutique =
Quotemy fuzz face with two extra knobs built on cardboard had extra special mojo because the tone comes from the cardboard, and more specifically from Vintage Ikea cardboard from the Lagan countertop and while I was making it I had 2001 a space odyssey on betamax playing on a 1964 tube tv while druids danced around my living room drinking the dew of the first spring day.
That, and caps filled with Dragon blood.
That sounds great.
Where can i pick up some dragon blood? oh whoops. Im sorry. I didn't mean to ask a question. I've been told not to do that. Sorry. You worked hard to find that dragon blood.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 07, 2010, 01:50:20 PM
Where can i pick up some dragon blood? oh whoops. Im sorry. I didn't mean to ask a question. I've been told not to do that. Sorry. You worked hard to find that dragon blood.
When I need Dragon Blood I usually look here to see who else found it first:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?action=search (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?action=search) ;)
Asking a question without using the forum SEARCH function first: STRIKE ONE! :-[
Asking a question requesting "easy answers and knowledge" in an attempt to profit: STRIKE TWO :-[
Making fun or being sarcastic to people who responded to your 2 strikes: STILL UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT.
In my opinion, just use this as a learning experience. You definitely do not want to anger the forumites as they are fickle beasts yet invaluable to your quest for DIY stompbox superstardom! :icon_rolleyes:
Just my humble opinion 8)
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 07, 2010, 01:50:20 PM
Where can i pick up some dragon blood? oh whoops. Im sorry. I didn't mean to ask a question. I've been told not to do that. Sorry. You worked hard to find that dragon blood.
I have a guy, it's the same guy that gets me semiconductors made with shavings from the horn of a Pegacorn (which is also the name of my mythical Tampa Death Metal band and an offshot of Skatallica)
You better watch it, your fate could be the same as this poor guy that just wanted to make a circuit box with a burst button.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76932.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76932.0)
Recipe for a "Boutique" pedal.
1 - a HIGH price tag!
2 - LOTS of fancy words! (Don't forget to use the words "True-bypass" and "Mojo", the more the better!)
3 - And gullible customers
Simple isn't it?
Quote from: alparent on December 07, 2010, 02:47:58 PM
Recipe for a "Boutique" pedal.
1 - a HIGH price tag!
2 - LOTS of fancy words! (Don't forget to use the words "True-bypass" and "Mojo", the more the better!)
3 - And gullible customers
Simple isn't it?
Don't forget the GOOP.
I suppose if I had posed the question in a different way like: "I want to buy a really nice and funky looking pedal, help please!" everybody would have sent me links to there own companies. Again: I DONT HAVE A COMPANY. I just have a fascination. I didn't have to give anybody anything to get on this forum and neither did you. Stop doing your best to alienate people. Nobody else finds it amusing or likes it. You think my question is stupid. I get it. I'm sorry for what its worth but stop acting all elite please. Just trying to learn. I am new to this sight and again i did use the search. I just missed a couple things. This is a learning experience and not an opportunity to jump down a learners throat. Do you do this to every new comer you find? Not that I expect it to stop because everybody with a keyboard and internet is a guru nowadays but can we keep this on topic at least? If you don't like the questions I ask then don't answer them. Simple as that. No thanks for putting a negative spin on this post. :-\
The snarky comments are mixed in with pretty solid advice, the best of which is I think "Boutique is all a load of crap".
Sorry that our free advice wasn't spun to your liking. It's a bit of a weird question in that; as you might have noticed; there's no real definition. It's a word that people use to make money.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 07, 2010, 04:26:44 PM
I suppose if I had posed the question in a different way like: "I want to buy a really nice and funky looking pedal, help please!" everybody would have sent me links to there own companies.
The thing is, that's exactly the opposite reaction you'd get. The trick is to understand where everyone here is coming from, then take the advice that's already been given (e.g. check out the gigantic pictures thread for inspiration; check out some of the graphics tutorials out there, etc.).
Whether you 'have a company' or not isn't the issue...it's that you're looking for help on how to build pedals to sell, in which case, you should be offering compensation to everyone who has given you meaningful advice. Since you're more of a hobby builder, that's probably not feasible. The best thing to do is to simply ask your questions (use the search bar first), then build what you like :)
Go to a college campus, walk into a physics classroom, and start asking high school level questions. See how quickly the professor finds out that you're not a paying student.
Does that make sense? I know that 90% of this community is not interested in giving you a crappy welcome--and I'm not trying to be insulting or patronizing--but you've got to understand how questions about selling pedals come off in a community based around free knowledge.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 06, 2010, 12:28:25 PMI also feel like the art is half the pedal. If i am going to charge more money it has to have a sick paint job.
I think you nailed it right here, bro. Part of the boutique mystique is the facade, the smoke and mirrors, the "sick" art work. Make the outside of the pedal look cool, then give it a weird name, and lastly pour goop all over the circuit so that no one can see that the circuit is really just a Fuzz Face, Tube Screamer, or Tim E. circuit, etc.
Viola! Boutique!
And don't forget the work "tone" in your company name.
BTW, here is a great place to get pcb layouts made: www.guitarpcb.com (http://www.guitarpcb.com) Check him out. Great service and a great guy. I've ordered from him several times!
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 07, 2010, 04:26:44 PM
I suppose if I had posed the question in a different way like: "I want to buy a really nice and funky looking pedal, help please!" everybody would have sent me links to there own companies. Again: I DONT HAVE A COMPANY. I just have a fascination. I didn't have to give anybody anything to get on this forum and neither did you. Stop doing your best to alienate people. Nobody else finds it amusing or likes it. You think my question is stupid. I get it. I'm sorry for what its worth but stop acting all elite please. Just trying to learn. I am new to this sight and again i did use the search. I just missed a couple things. This is a learning experience and not an opportunity to jump down a learners throat. Do you do this to every new comer you find? Not that I expect it to stop because everybody with a keyboard and internet is a guru nowadays but can we keep this on topic at least? If you don't like the questions I ask then don't answer them. Simple as that. No thanks for putting a negative spin on this post. :-\
I think your getting us wrong! Who said your question was stupid? People just have a strong opinion about "Boutique".
No one on this site will ever jump down a learners throat! Nobody ever jump down mine......and God knows I'm no elite!
I've learned very fast not to get offended by other peoples opinions. (Especially on forums!)
If you want to learn how to build better effects 'cause you want to sale some off and you want to offer a quality build product to your clients......then you ARE at the right place.
I think you've mistaken people making fun of "Booteek" pedals in general for people making fun of you and/or your question. People here have forgotten more about stompboxes than I'll ever know; such as the fact that any successful boutique pedals are more the result of clever marketing and being well-hyped, and less the result of superior engineering and construction. This makes the majority of DIYers scoff at anything labeled as "boutique", and scoff even harder at the manner in which it's advertised/promoted. Anyone who knows anything about pedals knows there's nothing special about a JRC4558, but boutiquers advertise the fact that their pedals use them like they have some kind of magical property or they're forged from unicorn tears. Maybe even NOS unicorn tears.
Truth is, the boutique market can't even come close to the mass market in terms of product range and affordability. If they could you'd see boutique clones of the EHX HOG, Eventide Timefactor or a pigtronix whatever...
"Boutique" doesn't mean higher quality, and as far as a "Boutique sounding" anything, well there's so such thing.
Yeah, seriously dude, nobody is making fun of you. Boutique yes, you no. I think you are taking the general fun attitude of this place an putting a negative spin on it. Time and time again people have tried to use the info from this forum to make money off of these people's hard work, so yes, we tend to make fun of this behavior. There are a lot of people here that know exactly why electrons get from point a to b and "boutique" is more about marketing than science, these are people that know that there is no difference between a 4558 made a 3:00 pm vs. 3:01 pm or that tubes filled with leprechaun farts aren't necessarily better than ones filled with ones filled with ogre breath, though there are a lot of people that would have you believe otherwise.
So we use humor, get used to it, we make fun of each other all the time.
Quote from: wavley on December 08, 2010, 09:33:59 AM
tubes filled with leprechaun farts aren't necessarily better than ones filled with ones filled with ogre breath.
What!?! Filling tubes with ogre breath adds mojo?!? And I've been wasting my money on mouthwash all this years!!!
oh btw,welcome thomas... :icon_wink:
:icon_mrgreen:
with that said I feel 100% better about this. Sorry. I wont mention the evil word ever again and as a sign of goodwill and apology i will post some of my own schematics. Anybody ever make a ring mod with 2n3904? I have a new design of my own that i put in some pedals. love ring mods. If your interested let me know!
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 08, 2010, 11:25:35 AM
with that said I feel 100% better about this. Sorry. I wont mention the evil word ever again and as a sign of goodwill and apology i will post some of my own schematics. Anybody ever make a ring mod with 2n3904? I have a new design of my own that i put in some pedals. love ring mods. If your interested let me know!
There are quite a few folks around here that love ring mods, Taylor comes to mind, we would like that very much.
are they boutique?.. :icon_wink: :icon_mrgreen:
At the risk of stoking the fire now that the flames are dying, may I just say that I always find all the eye-rolling and *another flower blooms* stuff quite tedious, smug and condescending. And I didn't think this forum was that kind of place.
Snarkiness is cheap.
EDIT:
I've never been up here on the high ground before. I think I'm getting a nosebleed.
Quote from: markeebee on December 08, 2010, 12:00:47 PM
At the risk of stoking the fire now that the flames are dying, may I just say that I always find all the eye-rolling and *another flower blooms* stuff quite tedious, smug and condescending. And I didn't think this forum was that kind of place.
Snarkiness is cheap.
+++++++100. ;D STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!
yeah! ill get a schematic up. its actually a faux ring mod. the basic workings are:
2 of the transistors are used to make a fuzz circuit that self oscillates.
1 of the transistors is used as a boost to go into the begining of the oscillator and the base of the fourth transistor to switch the gate on and off.
the fourth transistor is a noise gate so it cuts off the oscillator when you aren't playing. When you are playing the transistor modulates the dirty guitar with the oscillator.
an opamp sits at the output of this circuit to boost the volume back up because of the severe volume drop from using q4 passively.
The result is a really dirty sounding fuzzy ring mod. not good for warm blues players but noiseniks can have alot of fun and i bet it would be good to spice up guitar solos! I have built it a couple of times so i am fairly confident that it can be built accurately over and over and tried with different resistor,diode and capacitor values. when i write down the values i use i will put up the schematic.
QUESTION: Should I post it as a new thread or put it here or put it in the schematics part of the forum?
after getting the general feel of this forum i think it would be best to try and contribute as much as possible from my own diary of circuits and pedal misadventures! after all I am no scientist and maybe someone can rip my designs apart to be more efficient and maybe someday i will have my own solid diy design that people like me (a little experience and a curious interest) can build it.
Hey Thomas,
I would love to see your fuzz circuit! You might want to start a new thread. It may get kind of lost in this one.
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 08, 2010, 12:06:11 PM
yeah! ill get a schematic up. its actually a faux ring mod. the basic workings are:
2 of the transistors are used to make a fuzz circuit that self oscillates.
1 of the transistors is used as a boost to go into the begining of the oscillator and the base of the fourth transistor to switch the gate on and off.
the fourth transistor is a noise gate so it cuts off the oscillator when you aren't playing. When you are playing the transistor modulates the dirty guitar with the oscillator.
an opamp sits at the output of this circuit to boost the volume back up because of the severe volume drop from using q4 passively.
The result is a really dirty sounding fuzzy ring mod. not good for warm blues players but noiseniks can have alot of fun and i bet it would be good to spice up guitar solos! I have built it a couple of times so i am fairly confident that it can be built accurately over and over and tried with different resistor,diode and capacitor values. when i write down the values i use i will put up the schematic.
QUESTION: Should I post it as a new thread or put it here or put it in the schematics part of the forum?
Sounds very cool! I would post it as a new thread, in this (the Building your own stompbox) section.
Quote from: markeebee on December 08, 2010, 12:00:47 PM
At the risk of stoking the fire now that the flames are dying, may I just say that I always find all the eye-rolling and *another flower blooms* stuff quite tedious, smug and condescending. And I didn't think this forum was that kind of place.
Snarkiness is cheap.
EDIT:
I've never been up here on the high ground before. I think I'm getting a nosebleed.
+1
look forward to your stuff dude......cool.
Quote from: markeebee on December 08, 2010, 12:00:47 PM
At the risk of stoking the fire now that the flames are dying, may I just say that I always find all the eye-rolling and *another flower blooms* stuff quite tedious, smug and condescending. And I didn't think this forum was that kind of place.
Snarkiness is cheap.
EDIT:
I've never been up here on the high ground before. I think I'm getting a nosebleed.
Markee's right. I had no intention of sounding condescending in my posts, I was just trying to make a funny and if I came across as rude then I apologize.
Quote from: markeebee on December 08, 2010, 12:00:47 PM
At the risk of stoking the fire now that the flames are dying, may I just say that I always find all the eye-rolling and *another flower blooms* stuff quite tedious, smug and condescending. And I didn't think this forum was that kind of place.
Snarkiness is cheap.
EDIT:
I've never been up here on the high ground before. I think I'm getting a nosebleed.
and another bleeding nose :icon_biggrin:
Hey. Its ok! ;D I understand where you guys are coming from and for what its worth: I am sorry too.
OK HERE IT IS: THE RING FUZZ?
I put it up in the build your own stomp box area of the site. Just type ring fuzz into the search.
I hope i put it in the right spot
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 08, 2010, 01:13:33 PM
I hope i put it in the right spot
Yep, I can see it, great job! Thanks for contributing this.
yes now lets see if someone else tries it. Simple enough no?
soundclips..?..pics?...video?...all welcome.. :icon_wink:
can i put soundclips or videos on this forum?
Ha! Back to being a BIG HAPPY family again! ;D
Quote from: thomasthebuzzard on December 08, 2010, 01:36:10 PM
can i put soundclips or videos on this forum?
Ask Aron for some Gallery (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/) space, then upload all you want.
I think anything besides MP3 soundclips and graphic files (jpg, gif, pdf, png) need to be zipped.
I don't have alot of stuff at this point so maybe in the future i will ask that very question. Like i said I only have a couple of original designs. The ring fuzz is the newest one. (and obviously it isn't perfect yet.) So for now i will stick with the photobucket and if anyone really wants soundclips of my stuff I would be happy to give my email and send them along.
I'd say do it anyways.
Even if you only have a few things for now, it keeps the material "in the family" so to speak.
Dig through the Gallery, you'd be amazed at how many folks have 2 or 3 things in there.
The more you hang out here, the more you'll use it, trust me.
On that note, I DO hope you'll stick around.
Despite the brouhaha, it sounds like you have a lot of practical experience that would be quite welcome in any discussion here.
Then I will do it! Thankyou. Practical experience is about as far as it goes though. I was looking at the DSP thread and man there are a bunch of brainiacs on here! Someday...