Cant seem to get the loop wiring to work. Was wondering if you could use a 3pdt switch like the below pic
Something like this
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/syn187/1-1.jpg)
No that won't work, if you want to use a 3PDT then it just replaces the DPDT, like this.
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/Untitled.jpg)
Connect the sleeves of all the jacks together and then connect a wire from one of them to the ground wire on the vero layout. If you're using a battery to power it, connect the negative, black, wire of the battery snap to the bottom row on the layout, or if you've used a stereo input jack connect it to the ring of the jack. Connect 9 volts to the positive, red, wire from the battery snap. If you're using a power supply then connect a wire from the bottom row of the layout to the ground pin on the DC socket and connect 9 volts to the positive pin on the DC socket.
It's probably best not to keep starting new threads about the same thing it just makes it harder to follow what's going on just keep posting questions in the same thread.
Ok thanks again Slacker.
I have got it to work bypassed now. But no when engaged, so need to do some debugging i think.
Im having trouble understanding how this switches from bypass to loop.
All circuits i have seen so far go from input tip to switch to board input. Board output to switch to output tip.
Im probably wrong but i dont see where the switch changes to when pressed?
Looks like when you press the switch it either grounded it or ungrounded?
Also can it be connected so tails is always on instead of having the 2 way switch?
I have verified that the circuit works. But the output when loop on is only audible when the battery ground is on the input or out put jacks tip (but distorted). I have been through the wiring 100 times. its all correct.
Quote from: DonB on June 06, 2011, 04:19:10 PM
Im having trouble understanding how this switches from bypass to loop.
The schematic might help explain it, this doesn't have the tails/no tails switch but apart from that it's the same as the layout.
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=44722&g2_serialNumber=1)
The first omp section buffers the signal. The signal then splits, the bypass signal goes though the two 47k resistors to the second opamp section. The signal also goes through the two 1k resistors to the send, then via the the return to the second opamp section. The second opamp section mixes the signals together and sends them to the out.
When the thing is in bypass the switch, that's the thing between the 47k and 1k resistors, grounds the point between the two 1k resistors, so no signal goes to what ever is in the send/return loop. The signal can only go through the two 47k resistors so all you hear is the bypass signal.
When loop is selected, the switch grounds the point between the two 47k resistors so you don't hear the bypass signal. The signal instead goes through the two 1k resistors to the send, so you hear what ever is in the loop.
When you then switch back to bypass, you hear the bypass signal and the signal stops going to the send, but what ever is already in the pedal in the loop still goes through the return so gets mixed with the bypass signal. This is what gives the delay tails.
This is why the wiring isn't like on most pedals, the output of the loop needs to be connected all the time so you can hear the tails. Normal, true bypass wiring disconnect both the input and output when bypassed so you can't mix in the tails.
Quote
Also can it be connected so tails is always on instead of having the 2 way switch?
If you only want tails remove the 2 way switch and the wire to it from the right hand side of the board. Connect the wire that was going to it from the left hand side of the board to the 3DPT, where the wire going to the middle lug of the 2 way switch was.
Quote from: DonB on June 07, 2011, 06:30:18 AM
I have verified that the circuit works. But the output when loop on is only audible when the battery ground is on the input or out put jacks tip (but distorted). I have been through the wiring 100 times. its all correct.
Is this with the proper wiring of the 3PDT?
It is with your wiring that this happens. I have tried other was, but as you mention above it doesnt work unless wired your way. But i still have nothing in the loop?
Just wondering...
Im using an 4558 ic. Could i have put it in wrong? i put it with they little half circle in it at the top?
Yeah the circle goes at the top, if it works in bypass with the proper wiring then the 4558 must be in the right way, if it was in wrong you'd get no sound and probably smoke from the 4558.
Crap, I've just noticed there's an error on the layout, there should be a trace cut in the space next to the bottom of C4. Cut that and hopefully it will work, sorry for not noticing that sooner :icon_redface:
Between the jumper and C4 you mean?
Yeah
Thanks Slacker...Works fine now. Glad you noticed the missed track cut. This was doing mu head in...
Love this one.
How do you make the vero pics...It will need to be updated with the cut.
Doesnt matter i used paint to fix it...
Here it is Fully Verified!!!
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/syn187/SlackersLoop.jpg)
Excellent glad it works, I was just writing you some instructions on how to debug it when the missing trace cut jumped out at me.
Thanks for fixing the layout.
You are most welcome. Thank you for all your help with this. I dont understand schematics properly so i would never have found the problem myself. Also thanks for all the wiring troubles i put you through.
I am interested in making this into a pcb. Anyone have any idea how to do this?
Hi
I'm working on it just now, if you have ExpressSCH and ExpressPCB I can send you (and anyone else ) the files when I'm done. Though I'm not an expert in this..... :icon_mrgreen:
looks like this atm
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/TT.jpg)
@Slackers, how does it behave in a TrueBypass chain?
Thx
Armando
Looks good Armando. It acts like a buffer so it shouldn't cause tone sucking or really change the sound at all, it inverters the phase of the signal though, but most of the time that doesn't matter.
Quote from: slacker on June 12, 2011, 08:28:13 AM
Looks good Armando. It acts like a buffer so it shouldn't cause tone sucking or really change the sound at all, it inverters the phase of the signal though, but most of the time that doesn't matter.
Great! thx
I was asked to build something like that by a friend of mine, he's using a Behringer delay pedal that, he says, is sucking a lot of tone, I've suggest to TB it, but he needs the tails of the delay (FooFighters and whatelse), so look like this is the right solution for him.
Thx for it, Slacker!!
@Arma61
I would love to get the file from you when done. Then i can get a few made.
Its a great circuit.
Here you go m8!
please note they are not verified, though nodes are checked.
ExpressSCH .sch file (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45368&g2_GALLERYSID=139bed43b530177443e6a37877d82851)
ExpressPCB .PCB file (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45371&g2_GALLERYSID=139bed43b530177443e6a37877d82851)
I did also a 1590A layout, this is just the layout for the PCB made without any planning of this small enclosure, so may be this isn't going to fit inside.
ExpressPCB .PCB file 1590A (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45374&g2_GALLERYSID=139bed43b530177443e6a37877d82851)
this is great guys! I'm really pumped to try this out. let me know if the pcb version is a go. I might end up making several of these for some friends and I'd love to get some PCBs made. would anyone here be interested in making some and selling them to me once it's verified? not even sure where I would go to get them printed...
Try here for pcbs
http://www.guitarpcb.com/
does anyone have the list of what codes are what values? (if C1 is???) I'm guessing it's in the image that won't display for me (first post)
Here you go:
R1 - 1M
R2 - 10K
R3 - 10K
R4 - 100K
R5 - 47K
R6 - 10K
R7 - 1K
R8 - 1K
R9 - 47K
R10 - 47K
R11 - 47K
C1 - 10uF
C2 - 10uF
C3 - 100nF
C4 - 100nF
C5 - 10uF
C6 - 10uF
Here is the vero:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/syn187/SlackersLoop.jpg)
Quote from: slacker on June 12, 2011, 08:28:13 AM
Looks good Armando. It acts like a buffer so it shouldn't cause tone sucking or really change the sound at all, it inverters the phase of the signal though, but most of the time that doesn't matter.
Slackers, does this mean one can connect the Sent to the In of, say a Rebote fx, and the Return to the Rebote Out and have a ''simple echo fx with tail''?, that would be marvelous... and you should copyright your idea ! ;) ! ;) ! ;) ! ;)
Yeah, that's exactly what this is for, it lets you add tails to any delay.
That's great!!
really cool idea... thx for sharing it!!
....mmm close to weekend so.... it's time to get at least one board etched (and I'm doing that the old way.... drawing it by hand!) to verify my layout !
ciao
Thanks Don!
Arma, keep us posted on how it goes for ya and thanks for sharing the files! there is a very good chance I'll order several of these up once it's verified.
I will, hopefully it'll be up and running by the weekend !
btw, here it is.... almost completed (need few touch up here and there), and ready to take an acid bath!! :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0821.jpg)
Looks good, hope it works out.
I've just finished building one
(http://www.eskimo.plus.com/fxstuff/tailzlooper.jpg)
Nice job Slacker! (and I saw the "tm" sign on th Pictures thread! :D :D )
Hi m8s
good news! layout is verified , built and working!!
here it is, build it and enjoy it!!!
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0826.jpg) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh174/arma61/100_0828.jpg)
Very nice, I like how it's all mounted to the switch.
Those look great guys...
I will build another one very soon.
Just finished mine! This is my first non-kit active circuit pedal. I'm happy! works like a charm! decided to go with a slider style switch for something different.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2752403/IMG_1957.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2752403/IMG_1956.jpg)
also, to anyone going by DonB's parts list, C1 should be a 10nf not 10uf.
Quote from: GuitarTek86 on July 03, 2011, 08:18:28 PM
also, to anyone going by DonB's parts list, C1 should be a 10nf not 10uf.
Yes i made a mistake on that sorry.
Looks great GuitarTek.
just wanna share some layout i did for slacker's loop:
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/musikerochan/MISC/SlackersLoopschematic.png)
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/musikerochan/MISC/SlackersLooplayout.png)
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/musikerochan/MISC/SlackersLooppcbandlayout.png)
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm119/musikerochan/MISC/slackerloop.png)
scale to size to print. this one fits chinese 3pdt switches.
I've been looking for something just like this. I understand that the summing in the final stage is does with an inverting op amp configuration. If I wanted to correct the phase of the output, could I tack on another op amp before the output cap, set up in an "inverting buffer" configuration, similar to this picture that I found somewhere (but changing -9 volts to ground, and changing ground to VB)?
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_R-E2k2G01sM/TYfdMlNDtRI/AAAAAAAAAJY/w4ahCwzCDNQ/s800/image0.jpg)
Yes I know that this is an old thread, but I thought it might be better to ask my question here anyway, in order to keep the information about it all in one place.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=90460.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=90460.0)
Cool. So aside from feedback loop, is this kind of like my suggestion to correct the phase with an extra inverting stage, except that in this case it is done before the signal gets split and then summed, rather than after, as I had suggested? And if I'm not interested in the feedack loop, does it matter if it is done before or after?
No it makes no difference where you add the extra inversion, in the fancy version it's before the split because I wanted a mixer at that point for the feedback loop.
You can use the circuit you posted, you don't need the 0.1uF cap, just connect the input resistor straight to the output of the previous opamp, use 10k resistors instead of 1M, and connect the + input straight to Vb, no need for the 560k resistor.
I should really get round to building the fancy one, I drew it up then kinda forgot about it.
One more idea: I would like to be able to turn the tailsloop on and off many times mid-song e.g. effect on for some phrases and effect off for others (but with tails of course), so I'm wondering if a momentary switch would be better instead of a latching switch for performance reasons. How could I do that? I came across this:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Processaurus/CMOS+Bypass+with+4013+debounce.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
But it is not exactly what I'm looking for, because in the case of tailsloop, I only need to route 1 signal (connect ground to either the effect signal or dry signal). Maybe I could use this schematic as a base but use only 1 output of the 4053, althouth maybe this is overkill and there is a simpler way to do it.
And what is V 1/2? Would that be the same as VREF in the tailsloop.
If you only want a momentary switch you can just use a momentary SPDT or DPDT stomp switch instead of a latching one. No other changes are needed.
If you want momentary and latching switches, you can adapt the wiring from the fancy feedback loop version.
Yes V 1/2 is the same as VB or vref on the schematics.
To clarify, I want to use a momentary switch to activate the effect, but I don't want to have to keep is pressed. So I'm pretty sure that I need some kind of CMOS (to keep the on/off state) and some kind of digitally controlled analog switch.