DIYstompboxes.com

Finally got back to this. New name, same circuit. Many thanks to the guys who helped wring out the first round of mistakes!  :icon_biggrin:

Just finished the docos, so there could still be a bug lurking in there, but it's been built, and works.

DOH! Gotta put in the link: http://www.geofex.com (http://www.geofex.com)

Awesome RG! Thanks!

Brilliant,
Thanks R.G.
Mich P.

  It is surely cool, vibe w/speed ?
    Link brings blank page here.

I can only find the 2010 updates. Am I still asleep?

It's #1 in the "New At GEO" list on the main page; 7/2/11.

Here's the direct link: http://geofex.com/FX_images/UVICS-Proj-file.pdf (http://geofex.com/FX_images/UVICS-Proj-file.pdf)

I tried to make it work most easily with the most common Crybaby, the kind where the wiring plugs into pins on the PCB. For others of the various Crybaby models, you may have to manually solder wires in.

I have a PCB that puts a rectifier diode and filter caps back in the heel of the pedal, but DC-output wall warts are pretty common in the 18-24V range. It's probably easiest to use one of those. Doesn't need regulation, there's a 15V regulator on the UVICS board.

There is one wart to the way I did the single pot to dual pot mod. LDRs unavoidably do "dark adaptation", which means that when they're in the dark, the go to some resistance value, then over a few seconds get slightly higher resistance. So when you rock the pedal back, it goes to slow; then over a few seconds, it gets a bit slower. It's just the way it is.

All the normal mods to the univibe apply. Changing the values of the input resistors gives you high impedance, over 1M. I made the compensation cap be the collector-to-base version I found, but there's a hole there for the stock cap-to-ground connection of the original.

There is a trimmer for setting the sensitivity of the LED/LDR, but this is also where R51 goes; you can use a pot, measure it, and solder in a fixed resistor.  I also put in trimmers for stereo mix, and both base and emitter bias settings on the lamp driver.

The real restriction is part size. Use the right parts. I -er- mentioned that a few times in the instructions. The correct parts are available.

Layout looks good.

Thanks for the direct link - even a flushed cache leaves me with 3/6/11 as latest post. Weird.
Looking great! Even has the obligatory spelling mistake for good measure ;P (note 12 - soldered over the top to hole it on)
Very, very nice artwork.

Quote from: Mike Burgundy on July 03, 2011, 12:19:31 PM
Thanks for the direct link - even a flushed cache leaves me with 3/6/11 as latest post. Weird.
Looking great! Even has the obligatory spelling mistake for good measure ;P (note 12 - soldered over the top to hole it on)
Very, very nice artwork.

Thanks. It's at least mildly embarrassing that English is my native language - and I still can't spell correctly, or consistently.  :icon_lol:

I'll go rework that. Thanks for the help proofreading.

I just finished adding a power rectifier/filter section to the end of the board for AC inputs if needed. May take a bit to get that on line.

I know people who spell immaculately but wouldn't know a soldering iron if they picked it up by the business end - I'm sure we all prefer RG in his current state ;)
*edit* - caching problem (which I assume it was) now solved, I see the new item too.

Amazing! Can't wait to build it.

A couple of possible errors in the schematic that I wanted to ask about: C12 and C15. In the Neovibe, C12 is 470pF and C15 is .0047uF; in the UVICS, C12 is 0.47uF and C15 is 470pF. Is the UVICS schematic incorrect?

Quote from: kvandekrol on July 04, 2011, 11:18:47 PM
A couple of possible errors in the schematic that I wanted to ask about: C12 and C15. In the Neovibe, C12 is 470pF and C15 is .0047uF; in the UVICS, C12 is 0.47uF and C15 is 470pF. Is the UVICS schematic incorrect?

Probably I ought to say that the UVICS schemo is correct for the UVICS -   :icon_lol: - but no, I typed the values into the schemo incorrectly. Good catch, and thanks.

That's what I get for both postponing this for over a year because of the moaning, and for doing the docos quickly when I got some time to get back to it.

Thanks for the note. I'll update the schemo.

It's worth noting that you can experiment with the values of C5, C9, C12, and C15. I don't know what the original idea was, but I believe that the cap values were chosen for making the vibrato better by distributing the phase shift over the range of audio frequencies. Changing them has a subtle but audible effect. Feel free to tinker with them. It won't affect the DC conditions, and you may find a hybrid you like better.

Updated.

I saw this on GEO the day it went up. Now I have to figure out what to do with my Crybaby shell... this or the volume & boost I designed. Dunno when I'll find ANOTHER cheap/dead wah on Craigslist... and I need an expression pedal for my wife's ring modulator, too...

I guess I have a problem with rocker pedals. Between this and the Phase II, you're really feeding my addictive behavior, R.G.   :icon_wink:

Quote from: Keppy on July 05, 2011, 01:41:50 AM
I guess I have a problem with rocker pedals. Between this and the Phase II, you're really feeding my addictive behavior, R.G.   :icon_wink:

Just remember - anything worth doing is worth over-doing.  :icon_biggrin:

I might as well post my own findings about the use of MPS-A13's thoughout the phase stages.

When I did tried of MPS-A13's for the Forum-Vibe back in 2005 I too replaced allthe transistors in the phase stages with the true darlington MPS-A13 but then during listening tests quickly realized they changed the "throb" or "lope" (for lack of better verbiage) of the vibe too much for me, so much that the bias offset mod was unable to pull it back home to what I consider the proper "vintage" univibe sound. That's when I dumped the notion of using them on all the stages and just recommended replacing Q10 with an MPS-A13. Which reminds me by the way, even sub'ing an MPS-A13 in the Q10 position can be too much with the wrong LDR's I think.

When using true darlingtons (MPS-A13's) I think the "throb/lope" changes away from the vintage sweep kind of thing (eeeoooaaawwwaaaoooww) into more of a toggled sweep (yawingyawingyawing) with not as much dwell time in the area between each end of the sweep, which is not to say there isn't plenty of coolness there, it's just not the vintage tone to me.

I was going to recommend you might edit "Notes-2" in your PDF to reflect this.

Just to elaborate a little on my own findings, to accomidate the testing I built a "test fixture" with 2 vibes on it, one was bone-stock vintage build the other had sockets for everything change'able so immediate comparisons and part substitutions could be made w/o buiding a new vibe or soldering/desoldering parts. I did this for personal insight on proving/disproving the value of any of the mods anyone suggests on a vibe (mostly for my own benefit) but I do like to share my findings when appropriate.

Here is a pic of the socket-side of the board:  http://classicamplification.net/forumvibe/pix/vibe_with_sockets.gif (http://classicamplification.net/forumvibe/pix/vibe_with_sockets.gif) and with this test tool I am always able to try/test every permutation in the vibe curcuit, transistors, caps, LDR's, Bulbs etc. An easy, fast, and ultimately decisive way to do vibe tests so it was well worth my time buillding the test fixture.

Again just to reiterate (and be clear) this info is offered in the sprit of goodwill-forum-community. I post this simply as sharing the knowlege .  

It's actually quite an old project for me.

The idea about putting the univibe circuit into a crybaby rocker came up a very long time ago. In fact I can get out some of my first postings where I note that the original Neovibe board fits into a crybaby rocker, if you cut off the mounting posts. I'll have to do the research but I think that was about 2000, maybe before. I did the in-the-Crybaby-board, didn't release it because most people seemed to be hot to build them into their own square boxes; not as much interest in the crybaby-specific one. I did finally get around to releasing the crybaby specific one in 2009 when I got back to it. I don't release everything I do, either immediately or sometimes ever.

QuoteWhen using true darlingtons (MPS-A13's) I think the "throb/lope" changes away from the vintage sweep kind of thing (eeeoooaaawwwaaaoooww) into more of a toggled sweep (yawingyawingyawing) with not as much dwell time in the area between each end of the sweep, which is not to say there isn't plenty of coolness there, it's just not the vintage tone to me.

It does vary. I've done the listening to pretty much every variation you can think of on the univibe circuit - and the RT-18, it's predecessor with tremolo - since I started messing with it back in the 90s.

It's funny - every time I do something different to a vintage circuit, and especially the univibe, I get chewed on by "experts" who decide that any change from the holy original circuit sounds bad, and is just somehow *wrong*. It's happened since I released the first Neovibe back before there was a world wide web to surf on.

Back then, a couple of guys carped about the non-original sound of the voltage regulator. One guy in particular harped on it over and over as "not original sounding". A lot of people wound up laughing at him, but that's beside the point. One guy even griped that the different layout of the parts didn't match the original layout, and the sound was all wrong. Of course, both these guys were trying to make money selling clones of the original and didn't take kindly to my just giving away a layout that enabled people to do their own, so I think they had a different agenda.

In general, changing anything about anything will be called out as changing it. Sometimes some people can even hear a change. But point taken. I'll post a version with discrete transistors for those people who think they can hear a difference. Layouts are pretty simple for me, but yeah - somebody somewhere is sure to first carp about it not sounding original, then to go off and cook up their own business making mods and selling them as super-hyper-mondo better somehow. It's as amusing as it is predictable.

I did the listening test on true darlingtons a while back too, and had some people who are very picky about tone listen. They could hear differences in tone... but their "hit" on recognizing the original circuit was about the same percentage as blind guessing. Maybe it makes them feel better.

QuoteJust to elaborate a little on my own findings, to accomidate the testing I built a "test fixture" with 2 vibes on it, one was bone-stock vintage build the other had sockets for everything change'able so immediate comparisons and part substitutions could be made w/o buiding a new vibe or soldering/desoldering parts. I did this for personal insight on proving/disproving the value of any of the mods anyone suggests on a vibe (mostly for my own benefit) but I do like to share my findings when appropriate.

I do too. Sharing findings is good. I find that changing anything changes something. I also find that changing *human listeners* has an even greater effect, and even more, I can suggest that something sounds different, and it will. The personality of the listener has a huge effect. Some people are suggestible, and the one I suggest sounds good will sound good to them; others are counter suggestible, and what I suggest will sound good will sound worse to them; I guess they show me, huh?

QuoteAgain just to reiterate (and be clear) this info is offered in the sprit of goodwill-forum-community. I post this simply as sharing the knowlege.

Thanks, Brad. Just to reiterate to you, my response is given in the same spirit yours was offered. I feel the spirit of your posts and reciprocate it.

I had some experience in my last life with the hyper-adrenaline sales guys in the mainframe computer market, where making a fortune for the salesman hinged on him getting the order. When your competitor had something new but you didn't, you could FUD the customer. That acronym stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.  The idea was to drop hints quietly and you know, off-the-record-I-shouldn't-even-be-telling-you-this, that Something Bigger and Better was coming, and there were ugly little rumors the salesman had heard about customers not being really happy with buying the competitor. You know, just wanting to keep you from making a big mistake, cause you're my favorite buyer. FUD was widely disparaged by the sales people, who called each other down on it all the time. Ugly practice.

I guess my mind is wandering - I don't know why that came up.

Wow, still sounds like issues to work through, you're definately not feeling the love.

Again, no negativity intended when I say (as before) nice new layout, good work, well done.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 05, 2011, 05:24:15 PM
Wow, still sounds like issues to work through, you're definately not feeling the love.

Brad, I asked you politely, and privately by PM, not to go through this again. If you want to play "who's got issues?", I can do that as well as you can.

The snide "no negativity intended" and innuendo attacks are nothing new, and not all that clever, frankly. I've been insulted by experts, in both obvious and subtle ways, and so this isn't particularly novel.

I'm going to ask again, politely, for you to stop it.

I'm being very polite so c'mon let it go.

I think we may both not be getting it.

There are a couple things I wanted to contribute/share/offer in the critique of your new project, I don't have time to type it all up at once but for today I'd like to contribute this particular suggestion for the documentation.

I was pleased to see you've adopted my copper pipe-cap light shield idea (works good, very cheap, and totally available) I did notice immediately there was no mention of the clearance issues in the descriptive verbiage.

When I came up with the coppper pipe-cap/light-shield solution during the early Forum-Vibe project days it worked very well even w/o modification (although a little tall).

But when I applied it to my Vibe-Baby I immediately noticed clearance problems with the wah shell, there was no mention of it in your PDF but maybe the guys who built and tested your project didn't try to install the back cover on their wah shells but anyway that's why I'm contributing this info for your benefit now.

The problem is that the off-the-shelf copper pipe caps (Home Depot, Lowes, Ace/True Value, etc) are all made at over 3/4" tall (actually .788 or 20mm is the average) and so when you try to use the copper pipe cap inside the wah shell, which is a sloping enclosure, you can't get it in there (as is) with proper back cover plate clearance.

Now the tricky part is, if you don't trim it correctly (ie; too little trimming) you will be putting presure on the PCB when the back cover plate of the wah shell touches anything like carpet (or just getting bumped in transport, oops there goes the bulb). On the other hand if you trim it too much off your pipe cap it will come in contact with the bulb inside (T1-3/4 bulb requires at least .5"/13mm clearance) causing it to be pushed/lean to one side so one or more LDR's will be in closer proximity to the bulb while the others will be farther away, this will definately cause a different vibe sound even with tinning solution or tinfoil applied to the roof of the pipe cap.
(even if you use those T-3/4 type grain-of-wheat bulbs like the Mini DejaVibe)

Here's what I'm talking about:  

(http://classicamplification.net/Effects/pipecap_in_wahshell.gif)

The builder/assembler of a vibe in wah shell project needs to trim something like 1/8" off the pipe cap to get the required clearance for the bottom plate to install properly and not come in contact with the bulb or the board can be re-design to relocate the light chamber farther toward the front of the wah shell, up between the DC and I/O jacks where there is 25mm of clearance.

This is difficult, but do'able for the home DIY guy. I gave up on using pipe-cutters and all that and now just chuck them into a lathe and do the trim, it costs me a little of time/trade with my machinist buddy, but it's worth it.

Please feel free to add this pipe cap clearance/modification information to your UVICS project pdf, you don't need to mention me in your doc's.

Hey, thanks, Brad. I'll fold that into the instructions.

I was inspired that I took a wrong turn on making UVICS too small. So I got out the old Crybaby rocker and measured how big I could make it. A couple of hours turned out a layout with the right size and screwholes that is an easy toner transfer, resistors laying down, and very easy to replicate. All single sided, through hole parts on spacings that can be done with machine insertion, a real 70's kinda board. I hope everyone has as much fun with it as I did. 

I don't think I'd ever have thought of that without your help and inspiration. Thank you.

Quote from: R.G. on July 06, 2011, 03:11:35 PM
Hey, thanks, Brad. I'll fold that into the instructions.

I was inspired that I took a wrong turn on making UVICS too small. So I got out the old Crybaby rocker and measured how big I could make it. A couple of hours turned out a layout with the right size and screwholes that is an easy toner transfer, resistors laying down, and very easy to replicate. All single sided, through hole parts on spacings that can be done with machine insertion, a real 70's kinda board. I hope everyone has as much fun with it as I did. 

I don't think I'd ever have thought of that without your help and inspiration. Thank you.

Glad to be there for ya, hope to see the new, new UVICS project soon.   :icon_smile:

Quote from: RedHouse on July 06, 2011, 03:57:19 PM
Glad to be there for ya, hope to see the new, new UVICS project soon.   :icon_smile:

It's a pleasure. The toner transfer and parts placement are up at Geofex now. Pesky layout software won't print holes in pads for toner and they have to be put in by hand.

Enjoy.

Sweet!
I just got an empty wah shell.
Do the toner tranfer component's designations match the photo resist board layout/schematic ?

Quote from: Brymus on July 06, 2011, 07:52:32 PM
Do the toner tranfer component's designations match the photo resist board layout/schematic ?

I'll check. When I get in a creative mood, I have to get it down on paper fast. The schematic matches, but the part number may or may not - if I hit the "re-annotate" key, the program would have re-numbered from upper left to lower right. I'll go check for the correct matching of part numbers to positions. But only the part number for a position changes. The interconnection between parts does not. I'll have the first order check done by the time you get etched. Well, OK, unless you're really, really fast.

Be aware, I have not had time to build one of these. If you're willing to try it out, you get free technical support. And I do have to go slog through the paperwork to get the leads hooked up, wiring diagrams, all that stuff. Of course, this is about the thousandth time I've laid out the univibe circuit too. I found a post in an archive of the old ampage forum, predating this one:

Quote3/4/1998 4:12 PM
R.G.    Just as a bit of history - There have been a couple of people who got the thing inside a Hammond 1590C, same size as the "Experience" pedal. That is a tight fit, not recommended, but it can be done. The board fills up the bottom of the box, the top is where the controls get mounted and the jacks sit in the middle. This is a lot like 3-D checkers to get it in there.
  ...
I put one inside a Crybaby shell successfully by using a Dremel roto tool with the rotary file burr on it to remove the cast aluminum post in the middle of the board area and then mounting the vibe board on the metal bottom sheet. You'll have to work some to get a pot that will fit on the existing crybaby pot mounting, as this needs a deep sleeve on the pot. You might be able to thin the pot mounting lugs a bit with a flat file or a rotary file on the dremel and get a more standard pot in there. 

The Crybaby approach is a fair amount of metalwork, but it makes for a nice setup. By the way, the Crybaby mechanics makes a 100K dual audio taper pot work OK for the speed control, as the mechanics rotates it to fast for the toe-down position. This cleans up one of the problems with the speed control and needing a reverse-log pot. 

It was a history item even back in 1998. I'll see how far back the layouts go, out of curiousity. The latest layout in the original form factor is the version J-0. The UVICS was a start-from-zero effort using only the schematic, the board boundaries and the screwhole locations. Took about an hour for the raw layout, another hour of dinking around to get the printing into pdf format. I'll adapt the wiring, get the BOM printed out from the native PCB format, and include several pages of warnings and advice about how not to mess it up.  :icon_lol:

OK, checked the part numbers. It reannotated the part numbers. I went back through and changed them to part numbers corresponding as closely as possible to the Neovibe schematic.

"As closely as possible" means that there are some extra parts in there for modification use, so there's extra numbers used. I'll note those on the BOM. I also used up some of the blank area with more filter cap spaces so there are options there. I'll repost the new version with more cap spaces in a bit. I gotta go stick holes in by hand again. Ptah, ptah, PITA.   :icon_rolleyes:

Quote from: R.G. on July 06, 2011, 09:19:01 PM
I'll repost the new version with more cap spaces in a bit.

We'll wait 'till the dust settles.   :icon_smile:

Quote from: RedHouse on July 06, 2011, 10:10:02 PM
We'll wait 'till the dust settles.   :icon_smile:

Whatever are you waiting for, Brad?  :icon_biggrin:

Quote from: R.G. on July 06, 2011, 11:48:44 PM
Whatever are you waiting for, Brad?  :icon_biggrin:

Until you make the correction/modifcations you were refering to in your post:  

Quote from: R.G.
...I do have to go slog through the paperwork to get the leads hooked up, wiring diagrams, all that stuff...

BTW, what layout software are you using you mentioned in your post?:

Quote from: R.G. on July 06, 2011, 07:07:30 PM
...Pesky layout software won't print holes in pads for toner and they have to be put in by hand...

Ok I downloaded your new PDF (UVICS-2) and I'll have a look later today see if I can help with anything else.   :icon_cool:

Anyway, I'll have a look at yur new UVICS-2 PDF later on, see if I can hawkeye any assistance for ya.

Peace-out.

RG, I'm glad you got back to this project. I have a crybaby shell I've been saving for this project. I hope to get this done this summer. My plan was to use a charge pump approach (e.g. MadBean's "RoadRage" w/ TC 1044 or MAX 1044). Since you have the 15V regulator already on board I won't need to duplicate all the parts. I assume there's enough space left in the shell for this extra circuitry?

I tried a transfer last night,well close, but a few traces bled together.
Definetly not a beginer etch.
I am going to try again tonight.

Quote from: Beo on July 07, 2011, 02:05:47 PM
RG, I'm glad you got back to this project. I have a crybaby shell I've been saving for this project. I hope to get this done this summer. My plan was to use a charge pump approach (e.g. MadBean's "RoadRage" w/ TC 1044 or MAX 1044). Since you have the 15V regulator already on board I won't need to duplicate all the parts. I assume there's enough space left in the shell for this extra circuitry?

If you mean space inside for an up-verter to make it work on 9Vdc, that's a definite "maybe". There may be enough space at the toe end of the shell, depending on how you package the charge pump, and where you put the extra controls. It is NOT on the PCB. However, a baby perfboard could be tucked in at the toe, I think.

There are a huge number of ways to build a univibe circuit into a shell. Picking and choosing how to do one of them is an interesting chore. For instance, the biggest circuit difference between UVICS and UVICS 2 was leaving the single-pot modification out of -2. It requires a double pot. I may go back and put that in, because there was some space left over. There are many other possibilities for things to put in, things to leave out. One man's great new mod is another man's blasphemous desecration of the holy vintage tone.

Quote from: Brymus on July 07, 2011, 03:15:48 PM
I tried a transfer last night,well close, but a few traces bled together.
Definetly not a beginer etch.
I am going to try again tonight.

If you'll let me know where you have the most trouble, I now have it where I can tinker with it more easily. I just skinnied-up some fat traces that might have been a problem. Download it again before you print.

Thanks RG,
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )

I will try the new version this evening and report back.

Quote from: Brymus on July 07, 2011, 05:11:10 PM
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )

Download it again. I widened the spaces under the pinout pads as much as I could without moving parts around. I flipped the elbow in the trace under Q5. I narrowed the fat (ground) trace around the bulb.

Thanks for the feedback! Try that one.

So now that the double pot is back on the table, are there any suitable ones from Mouser or SBE that would fit the gear assembly? The Crybaby pot is a long D shaft.

I think the single-pot mod would fit on a small perfboard outside the PCB. It just won't fit with the ground rules i used - resistors lie down, no traces between 0.1" center pads, 0.025" traces, and designed for toner transfer.

It's kind of like the voltage up-verter question.

A baby board with both the dual-to-single pot circuit and the voltage upverter is possible I guess.

Quote from: R.G. on July 07, 2011, 06:11:43 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 07, 2011, 05:11:10 PM
The places that I had trouble with are:
* The 4 traces on the right in the ten pin header (D,C,K,and J )
* Where R29 and R3 join under Q5
* And the fat trace around the bulb (just the tight area )

Download it again. I widened the spaces under the pinout pads as much as I could without moving parts around. I flipped the elbow in the trace under Q5. I narrowed the fat (ground) trace around the bulb.

Thanks for the feedback! Try that one.

My pleasure !
The new one isnt printing it the right width,even when no page scaling.
The old version printed exactly right size.

No matter I loaded it in Gimp at 330 DPI and scaled it to exactly your dimensions.
I also trimmed and moved a few spots that were messing me up.
The result:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45663&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45660&g2_serialNumber=1)

Now I need to round up the components and power supply  ;D
The fit looks perfect when layed in my empty shell,I just need to notch out the two corners.

I used a # 65 for the smaller pads and a # 60 for the large ones.
I should have used a #68/#70 as the pads are smaller than I am used to.
I think they will be fine as long as I take my time soldering,and dont over heat any of them.
My old etchent took a whole hour to etch this.

I used virgin magazine paper from a print shop.(Thank You Paul C  8) )
It is absolutely like using PNP blue when compared to magazine paper thats been printed on.

My attempt that worked with new layout:
30 seconds on high gently pressing, hitting all the edges,then allowed to cool to handling temp.
And the paper peels off - like PNP blue without any soaking,really amazing.

Nice etch!

So, I tried presensitized boards recently, and had bad results. I tried one board that uses regular 100W bulbs for exposure... but I think my transparency toner was not opaque enough... in the positive developer, I could see my circuit, but within a minute it disappeared and all of the resist was gone. I was left with a regular 6"x9" copper protoboard. I have a UV presensitized board, and a UV light box that I've built, but I haven't tried this yet.

In the meantime, I went back to toner transfer, but instead of using an iron, I tried my laminator that I got from Costco for kids projects. Regular copper boards fit! I did 10-12 passes through using magazine paper... and perfect even results! These were my own layouts with thin tight traces.

So, if you haven't tried it yet, pick up a cheap laminator and do your board toner transfers that way. Now if only there was a way to fit my aluminum enclosures through the laminator!

Brymus, you do good work. Nice clean transfer and etch!

Some tips on fitting the PCB into the shell:
- The mounting holes need to be about 0.137"
- The reference locations are the two single mounting pads which fit over the raised bosses in the shell. The other two three-in-a-row locations are for drilling three holes then cutting/filing the holes together into a slot to fit over the threaded ends of the tension adjuster screws. I put the center hole over the locations of my adjuster screws, but I understand that shells vary in the adjuster locations, so I put extra space there to make a slot for it to fit more shells.
- The tightest height restraint is at the heel end where the power filter caps are. The caps can't be any taller than about 13mm or they'll hit the cover. To avoid this, you want capacitors which are 10mm/0.4" diameter, with 5mm/0.2" lead spacing, and less than 13mm high. Mouser's part selection app lets you pick by size among other things, which is very handy. I did the search for parts before I did the layout, and they stock several 330uF/35V capacitors with a diameter of 10mm and height of 12mm. That was the reference cap I used.
- The light shield may need some ingenuity. Of course, anything that keeps light off it while it operates will work. In fact, just the shell itself, no light shield, will probably work fine in actual use. But for debugging with it open, you may need something; and an internally reflective shield does the best job of "mixing"the light so the LDRs are illuminated evenly. You can even tape down the aluminized baggie from potato chips over them. It does not need to be perfectly shaped and sized, just there. Aluminized cardboard works, as does thin metal folded into a box, whatever fits. My recent tinkering turned up PVC pipe. The nominal 3/4" pipe can be sliced into a short ring of less than 16-17mm height (that's about what you have at the heel end of the light shield) and glued onto the PCB. Then you can tape/glue/tie a reflective top onto it. Finding stuff that happens to work is one of the joys of DIY,. The world is practically **full** of things that happen to be shaped right for a purpose that wasn't what they were intended for. I give myelf extra points when I spot something that can be used for something the original designer never thought of when they made it.  :icon_biggrin:
- If you use a power supply which produces even less maximum voltage - say, 18-22Vdc at the caps - then you can use lower voltage but higher capacitance caps of the same size. There are 470uF/25V caps at Mouser that fit the 10mm wide by 12mm tall spacing
- You want to get to a total capacitance which gives you appropriately little ripple, not necessarily to fill up all the capacitor positions. I had some space free at the lower right corner edge that wasn't being used, and could not easily be used because of the positions of the I/O pads and mounting bosses. So I just filled up the space with more footprints for capacitors to provide some options. There are eight capacitor positions.
- If you can't get short enough caps, the further from the heel you go the more height you have, so the positions along the bottom are some help.
- If you an AC-output power adapter, you will need a lot of capacitance; 2000uF should be enough, and that's six 330uF caps. For an AC supply, be sure the incoming AC on the power jack does NOT contact the grounded shell.
- If you have a DC output supply that's not filtered, you still need a lot of capacitance. In this case, use lots of capacitors and put two jumpers between the pads for the bridge rectifier to let the DC directly through to the capacitors. A bridge rectifier just gets in your way if you have DC coming in already.
- If the DC supply is rectified and filtered, but not regulated, you may need the same amount of capacitance. If the supply is DC, filtered, and regulated, you'll only need one or two caps. Same comment about bridges.
- The capacitors are almost all laid out for 0.2" lead spacing 50V box style film caps. You can adapt other caps, but watch the sizes. The 0.22uF phase cap *is* available as a box cap.
- With options, comes complexity.  :icon_biggrin:

The board itself lets you have a number of options.
- You can raise the input resistance to over 1M by changing the values of the first two resistors as I posted earlier here.
- There are the stock two inputs from the original univibe; you won't need both for use in a crybaby shell, so leave off the input resistor for either A or A1 inputs.
- Likewise, you probably won't need the "cancel" function, but the pads are there to do it if you want.
- You can go to darlingtons by shorting the base pad to emitter pads on the phase array transistor.
- You can hack on a "stereo" output if you like because I put in the collector resistor position and second transistor position for the fourth phase stage position. You'll have to make a separate baby board to put on the stereo mixing, and I didn't think many people would do it, so I didn't put it on the PCB where it would have had to go.
- The 1uF film capacitors I used so profusely don't have to be film. They were polarized electros in the original. You can use polarized electros, or you can use NP electros, or you can use film. The board lets you put them in.

A DIY project is a bundle of raw potential, a chance to create something new.

Quote from: R.G. on July 08, 2011, 12:21:47 AM
and designed for toner transfer.

R.G., what aspects are taking into account when designing a pcb for toner trasnfer? Whats are the diferences between a this type of design and other methods?

Quote from: Brymus on July 08, 2011, 03:18:55 AM

My attempt that worked with new layout:
30 seconds on high gently pressing, hitting all the edges,then allowed to cool to handling temp.
And the paper peels off - like PNP blue without any soaking,really amazing.

So 30 seconds is all the time you heated pcb? Any longer? What was the iron temp?
Your pcb turned out so good!

Nice job on the board Brymus.

RG, I didn't get much time on your layout, so can't comment on anything electrical (sorry) but did manage to check clearnce, I noticed you moved the light chamber even farther back (towards heel of pedal) which makes the pipe-cap dimension even more critcal, but I suppose evey freebie project needs an issue or two for the builder to deal with (only fair really).

The further back you go the less available overall height the pipe-cap can be, while the inside bulb height restricion remains the same, so wiggle room diminishes, anyway, it's all good.

When I saw the v-reg there it brought the clearance thing up once again, if it's a TO-220 type you may have to instruct your builders to bend it over or whatever to keep it from hitting the bottom plate of the wah shell.

I printed your layout from the PDF and taped onto one of my un-populated Vibe-Baby boards and installed it into my (Dunlop) test-shell which I keep handy, and the area where you have your v-reg (IC1?) has about about 17mm height space from board to bottom plate, a TO-220 is about 20mm high so you will have to advise using the 78Lxx there or again advise your builders to bend a TO-220 over a bit to fit without comming in contact with the back cover plate.  

Probably sounds to you like nit-picking but a wah-shell project, unlike other projects, isn't really one that can be done from the computer desk. Because of the unique parameters of the wah-shell (other than board outline) one really should physically build/test (and rebuild) to get things to fit the enclosure properly, paying particular attention to the restrictions (diminishing height) as you approach the rear of the pedal will become evident as your build proceeds.
(been there, done that, and pioneered the t-shirt!)

Here's a pic of my rev-1 Vibe-Baby boards which discovered these clearance problems:
(I'm on rev-7 now, lots'a changes over the years)

(http://classicamplification.net/effects/vb_pro_v1.gif)

those nice industry standard WIMA caps (back row, right side of pic) hit the bottom plate of the wah shell, actually about 1mm too high, and caused excessive pressure on the PCB when the plate was "forced" on with some shells. Back then I was making boards that were the size of the old wah PBC like you did on your UVCIS rev-1 layout, I realized there was much more available space (as you did a few posts back) and re-designed my boards to use it although I went in a different direction than you did.

At first I thought it was the mounting screw boss's were too high, and so I got out the file and trimmed a bit but wasn't happy with that solution because it was like the original problem comming back.
(metal work)

Later I found out exactly what the problem was. The thing that was not evident until I made quite a few (Vibe-Baby's) was the fact that the shells are not all the same! see the pic below which represents a span of Cry Baby shells, top one is Thomas Organ from the 60's, middle is the Dunlop 80's-06', and bottom one is the 80's-08' VOX shell before they added the hole for the DC jack and stopped chrome plating the treadle. Hard to tell from the pic but the Dunlop and the VOX have different heights but same casting numbers.

(http://classicamplification.net/effects/wah-shell_types.jpg)
(pay no attention to the red circles, I use this pic to help my cutomers identify which type shell they have)

Anyway, if you were to measure the wall height (side skirt) distance from bottom plate surface to mounting boss's surfaces ...they are all different. And they are different from shell to shell of the same type so when you build your board with your shell (and if it fits) well, the next guy's might not, no FUD just the facts ma'am.

Investigating this reveals the Dunlop products having all gone to SMT, they don't care about the bottom plate height spec, they only have a minimum. As a side note, though all the Dunlop/VOX (the VOX is made by Dunlop) shells have the same casting numbers, but I suspect are made in different factory's, it's evident that the bottom plate surface is actually "milled" flat and different factory's are milling that height at different spec.

I noticed ya dumped the Bob Sweet vactrol speed pot thing, good move. I can see using it in a 1590BB shoe-horn build, but really no need for it in a wah shell since a normal 100k dual log works fine. It was innovative back in 2002 no doubt, when he developed the (then un-named) Mojo Vibe and it was harder to source Alpha rev-log pots, but again no need for it in a wah shell.

Hopefully offering up these tips will help you get it right while the others are debugging the new project. I don't have time to etch and build one myself but these observations may help ya out.

Peace-out.


{Edit} BTW, I forgot to say, kudo's for bringing back discrete darlington pairs. Your builders will be appreciating that when trying to achieve the natural/vintage univibe tone/throb.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 08, 2011, 11:44:08 AM
I noticed you moved the light chamber even farther back (towards heel of pedal) which makes the pipe-cap dimension even more critcal,

It doesn't use a pipe cap, necessarily. Not an issue. Pipe caps are OK, but the harder they are to adapt, the less interesting they are. Innovate - find something else. The world is full of possibilities.

Quotebut I suppose evey freebie project needs an issue or two for the builder to deal with (only fair really).

Anything to belittle and FUD a free project, right?

QuoteThe further back you go the less available overall height the pipe-cap can be, while the inside bulb height restricion remains the same, so wiggle room diminishes,

Don't need a pipe cap. Not an issue. The idea of a pipe cap becomes a functional fixation if you let it. Hey if you're stuck on pipe caps, use a PVC pipe cap cut down to size. They're already bright white inside, and much, much easier to cut to height. Hacksaw blade and a height spacer or even just coarse sandpaper should work fine, and much less work and equipment than a metal cap and a lathe. Think, Brad, think.

QuoteWhen I saw the v-reg there it brought the clearance thing up once again, if it's a TO-220 type you may have to instruct your builders to bend it over or whatever to keep it from hitting the bottom plate of the wah shell.

Yep. When things don't fit, you have to make them. Doh! They aren't my builders - they're intelligent, thinking human beings who have some technical smarts on their own.

QuoteI printed your layout from the PDF and taped onto one of my un-populated Vibe-Baby boards and installed it into my (Dunlop) test-shell which I keep handy, and the area where you have your v-reg (IC1?) has about about 17mm height space from board to bottom plate, a TO-220 is about 20mm high so you will have to advise using the 78Lxx there or again advise your builders to bend a TO-220 over a bit to fit without comming in contact with the back cover plate.  

I finally got time to mess with it, taped the paper print on cardboard, measured, and noted that. Changed the pinout; both TO-220 and 92 work, but a builder can choose.

QuoteProbably sounds to you like nit-picking

It is.  :icon_biggrin:  And to think I deliberately held off on posting this for over a year primarily because you told me you were in negotiations with a major maker of pedals to buy your stuff. I didn't want to muck up your deal. Then months ago I asked about the status of that and you said to go ahead and post it. Sigh. I'm just a sentimental old softie. I probably won't make that mistake again.

Quotebut a wah-shell project, unlike other projects, isn't really one that can be done from the computer desk.

... delicately drawing the implication that it was all done in a computer, with no recourse to the real world. Sorry, no cigar. I *did* do the first few iterations in my head and on the screen. That means I didn't have to go build the first few and find out they didn't work, like:

QuoteHere's a pic of my rev-1 Vibe-Baby boards which discovered these clearance problems:
(I'm on rev-7 now, lots'a changes over the years)

If more thought and analysis had gone into the rev-1, you might not have to be at rev 7. Just a thought. You might want to do more thinking and less manual hacking. Might save you some time. Beyond that, use of computers to do the first few drafts can, as computers always do, let you make more mistakes, much more quickly.  :icon_lol:

QuoteBecause of the unique parameters of the wah-shell (other than board outline) one really should physically build/test (and rebuild) to get things to fit the enclosure properly, paying particular attention to the restrictions (diminishing height) as you approach the rear of the pedal will become evident as your build proceeds.
(been there, done that, and pioneered the t-shirt!)

Sorry you had to put so much hacking in. It eats a lot of time and makes for a very expensive T-shirt. You finally notice that there is no "the wah shell". It's a variable. Cope with it.

Quotethose... caps .. hit the bottom plate
... boards that were the size of the old wah PBC like you did on your UVCIS rev-1 layout,
...I realized there was much more available space (as you did a few posts back)
...I got out the file and trimmed a bit but wasn't happy
...(metal work)
...the shells are not all the same
...Dunlop and the VOX have different heights
...they are different from shell to shell of the same type
...no FUD just the facts ma'am.
...noticed ya dumped the Bob Sweet vactrol speed pot thing
...again no need for it in a wah shell.
...discrete darlington pairs... natural/vintage univibe tone/throb.

I'm surprised you didn't imply that since the UVICS has not been touched by angels, it must be the work of the devil.  :icon_lol:

QuoteHopefully offering up these tips will help you get it right while the others are debugging the new project. I don't have time to etch and build one myself but these observations may help ya out.

It's pretty funny watching this, actually. You'll do or say anything to carp about the details, imply that it's nothing new, it's all been done elsewhere by someone else long ago and far away, someone else did it first or better, there are things that are missing, or wrong.

Thanks but your "help" won't be necessary. You're putting rather a lot of effort into this, for some reason.  :icon_lol:

A friend dropped by my shop a little while ago with his digital camera, so I thought I'd snap a couple pics of what I was talking about.
(the wife has my camera at work right now)  

Here is an off-the shelf copper pipe cap (light shield) with your UVICS-1 and UVICS-2 layouts, as you can see both height and location are an issue:

(http://classicamplification.net/effects/uvics-a.gif)

and specialy with the TO-220 v-reg on UVICS-2:

(http://classicamplification.net/effects/uvics-b.gif)

Hope this helps,

May I just chime in here and say that most of us aren't idiots, we're diy'ers and most of us are perfectly capable of manufacturing a suitable light shield and/or bending leads and any further discussion of this is pretty much a waste of time.  I've been following this project because I have an empty wah shell that is just begging for a project like this.

Any further bickering on this subject is a waste of time, you've made your point.  Now can we just get on with building something cool.

No offense though.  We cool?  ;)

Quote from: SISKO on July 08, 2011, 11:31:56 AM


So 30 seconds is all the time you heated pcb? Any longer? What was the iron temp?
Your pcb turned out so good!

Yeah 30 seconds on high/linen (1-1000,ect)
Not sure about iron temp,but its worth noting that my garage is seriously 110 degrees (or more),
That high an ambient temp probably plays a factor.

Thanks for the kind words all !!  8)

@ RG
Are you doing a BOM soon ?
I think by giving the exact cap dimensions,(that post answered quite a few questions) I can get those ordered.
I should have an AC wart in my wart box that will work.

Now the dumb questions:
Is there a Mouser photocell that is recomended,or can I just match 4 from Radio Shack ?
Is there a recomended transister and darlington ?
I have 3904,5088,5089,MPSa13 on hand. (and a few others)

I am really excited about this build ,been wanting this pedal for awhile.  ;D
I think I have 95% of the parts already too.

Quote from: wavley on July 08, 2011, 03:11:04 PM
Any further bickering on this subject is a waste of time, you've made your point.  Now can we just get on with building something cool.

No offense though.  We cool?  ;)

yeah... we're all feelin' your love Redhouse

thanks for your time... those billions of people who aren't as clever as you will no doubt appreciate your self-sacrifice at posting the solutions

Quote from: wavley on July 08, 2011, 03:11:04 PM
May I just chime in here and say that most of us aren't idiots, we're diy'ers and most of us are perfectly capable of manufacturing a suitable light shield and/or bending leads and any further discussion of this is pretty much a waste of time.  I've been following this project because I have an empty wah shell that is just begging for a project like this.

Any further bickering on this subject is a waste of time, you've made your point.  Now can we just get on with building something cool.

No offense though.  We cool?  ;)

+1

Its cool guys, this is just his style. I've seen it on a couple of forums.

Quote from: Brymus on July 08, 2011, 04:45:46 PM
Are you doing a BOM soon ?

I need to check it again, but I'll get it posted tomorrow morning. I had to do some last minute testing of some stuff before we commit to volume manufacturing.

QuoteI think by giving the exact cap dimensions,(that post answered quite a few questions) I can get those ordered.
I should have an AC wart in my wart box that will work.

There is another option I didn't mention. If you can get 10mm diameter caps but can't get them 12mm tall or less, get 10mm diameter but longer and lay down two of them along the rows where caps would go.

Quote
Is there a Mouser photocell that is recomended,or can I just match 4 from Radio Shack ?

Photocells and the lamp is usually where people spend a lot of fretting. I had good luck with Radio Shack stuff - a decade ago! I'd recommend  Small Bear now.

QuoteIs there a recomended transister and darlington ?

For everything but the lamp driver, most high gain signal NPNs will work For Q1, I like 2N5088. I've built them entirely out of 2N3904 and 2N5088, as well as the "original" 2SC828. There was another one for the front end in the originals, but I have listened to the same box with different transistors and can't hear the difference.

For Q11/Q12, an integrated darlington makes for a more consistent and better performing LFO because the gain stays high in the first transistor at the very low currents at which it works. MPSA13/14, and many others should work fine. There are other mods for this; the higher impedance of the Q11 position, the wider the LFO range. A J201 works well in the Q11 position because of its very low Vgson. It's worth some tinkering.

For Q13, I like MPSW45 and some of the Zetex 1W darlingtons. If you get one for Q13, get two and use the second one for Q11/12 instead of two normal bipolars.

QuoteI have 3904,5088,5089,MPSa13 on hand. (and a few others)

Doh! Shoulda read further before replying. If you have those on hand, use 5088s for signal transistors, MPSA13 for Q11/Q12 and Q13.

Hey thanks RG

So I have everything (if Radio Shack has a few more LDRs) except the 7815. (I have several LM317 though)
Thats using a Radio Shack bulb,LDRs and dual 100k pot.

I was looking at mouser's caps by size and in 10mm x 12.5mm there is a huge selection of caps.
After checking ,I have enough caps the right size for this, I was already thinking of laying down 2 x 1000 uf for the filter caps.
There is plenty of space either way though.

If your sure the part numbers on the UNVICS2 layout ,match the schematic I could get this populated and tested this weekend.
After reading the technology of the Univibe this afternoon,I would like to implement a couple of the proposed mods.
The stereo mod,the phase trimmer,and definetly unity gain.

Quote from: Brymus on July 08, 2011, 11:23:24 PM
If your sure the part numbers on the UNVICS2 layout ,match the schematic I could get this populated and tested this weekend.
After reading the technology of the Univibe this afternoon,I would like to implement a couple of the proposed mods.
The stereo mod,the phase trimmer,and definetly unity gain.

Let's just be sure. I added the schemo and BOM as well as some notes in the project file at GEO.

Unity gain is just a change to two resistor values from the stock values. The phaser trimmer spot is on the PCB, or you can use an external pot, trim, and then solder in resistors. Stereo is not on the PCB, and may not be all that useful on stage, though it sounds great for solo practice. It's hard for an audience to hear the subtlety.

One thing you might want to consider is the high-impedance input. I posted that somewhere in this forum.

Thanks for getting back to this project, R.G.!

I remember reading about this a while back... I actually postponed building a Univibe until a drop-in PCB came out. Removing the need to mod the shell for a dual-gang pot is very nice as well :)
What's your suggested way of getting UVICS-1 boards? I'm assuming they're too hard to etch... Will they be offered by one of the DIY stores?

Cheers,

Phil

Quote from: phector2004 on July 09, 2011, 01:02:54 AM
I remember reading about this a while back... I actually postponed building a Univibe until a drop-in PCB came out. Removing the need to mod the shell for a dual-gang pot is very nice as well :)
What's your suggested way of getting UVICS-1 boards? I'm assuming they're too hard to etch... Will they be offered by one of the DIY stores?

UVICS-1 was an exercise in how small it could get. I changed the PCB ground rules to thin lines and tight spacing, so it's really beyond typical toner transfer skills.  It should work fine for presensitized board and optical methods, though.

If you can wait just a bit, let me get some thought done on it. I wanted to put the single-pot option in it, but just didn't have the space the way the UVICS-2 went. I'm thinking a baby board to do the 9V power and the single pot change added onto the UVICS-2. This would be done to toner-transfer spacings as well.

Quote from: wavley on July 08, 2011, 03:11:04 PM
May I just chime in here and say that most of us aren't idiots, we're diy'ers and most of us are perfectly capable of manufacturing a suitable light shield and/or bending leads and any further discussion of this is pretty much a waste of time.  I've been following this project because I have an empty wah shell that is just begging for a project like this.

Any further bickering on this subject is a waste of time, you've made your point.  Now can we just get on with building something cool.

No offense though.  We cool?  ;)

So Brad .... since you know so so much about how to do this right .... where's your layout/BOM/instructions for us to build from?

O I C .... it costs $160 bucks and all we get to do is solder in the connections ... thanks I guess ... all that other etching and parts soldering looks to hard for me

No Derringer sorry, I don't have a public wah-shell vibe (freebie) project for ya, never offered a layout or etched and drilled boards for my Vibe-Baby because my customers are musicians (not the DIY community) say what you like but it doesn't make much sense to hand etch/drill (120 odd holes) then a guy expects to buy it for $12 (and feels slighted if you don't offer) oh sure I might some day when I do some fab house runs but for now and what with the economy down, the Forum-Vibe is my only freebie offering, did you have a vibe project layout to offer-up?.

Anyway, it's all good and yes I can feel the love, kum-by-ya, and peace out.   :icon_cool:

what I implied, but didn't ask as clearly as I should have is "where is your wah-shell-vibe PCB transfer"

Quote from: RedHouse on July 09, 2011, 04:48:09 PM
I don't have a public wah-shell vibe (freebie) project

thank you for the forumvibe

but ...

Quote from: RedHouse on July 09, 2011, 04:48:09 PM
I can feel the love, kum-by-ya, and peace out.   :icon_cool:

(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/angrybubbles303/lolcopter.gif?t=1243935358)

and I'm done

OK back from Rat Shack
I have everything now except the 78L15  ??? (they had a 7812 I picked up)
The dual 100k from RS wont work for the treadle but will for testing.

Anyway band practice next,maybe tonight I can start populating the board.

For the discreet darlingtons ,I am a little confused ...
Do I use a 2N3904 and 2N5088 together or two 5088's together ?
Does it make a difference ?

Quote from: Brymus on July 09, 2011, 05:10:23 PM
I have everything now except the 78L15  ??? (they had a 7812 I picked up)

It will probably work fine with the 7812, although the DC voltages will be proportionately lower, and overload will happen sooner. Not a biggie, really.

If you wanted to make 15V out of the 7812, you could stick a stack of diodes between its ground pin and real ground adding up to 3V, so about 4-5 diodes. PITA. I'd test with the 7812 and get the right thing later.

QuoteThe dual 100k from RS wont work for the treadle but will for testing.

Yep.

QuoteFor the discreet darlingtons ,I am a little confused ... Do I use a 2N3904 and 2N5088 together or two 5088's together ? Does it make a difference ?

Some, but tiny. A darlington has the two transistors cascaded for more current gain. The second transistor works at the full current, in this case 1-2ma maybe. It's base current is equal to its collector current divided by HFE, and so is the emitter current of the first transistor. The problem is that HFE falls with decreasing collector current. So if the second transistor is specified at HFE=400 at 1ma, its base current is 2.5uA, and so the first transistor doesn't have that same 400HFE, but something much smaller. That's the theory.

In practice, you can use either 3904 or 5088 everywhere. It seems to work, and I've done it both ways. For best results, I'd use a 5088 for Q1, and for Q4, Q6, Q8, and Q10, because of their higher gain at low currents. Also Q14 if you use Q14. Q14 is NOT stock, but it sets you up for the stereo option if you want to do that. If you don't use it, stick a wire shorting the base and emitter pads of Q14 to leave Q10 like the original.

Q2, 3, 5, 7, 9, can be either 5088 or 3904, or other NPN. The reality is that either way is enough gain to make the slightly-abberational darlington setup in the 'vibe work fine. I'd definitely use a 5088 for the higher gain for Q11 because the LFO darlington needs all the current gain it can get.

OK neat trick with the diodes and the regulator,I might try it.

I have two 400ma 12VDC warts that are putting out 18.9VDC  and 19.9VDC
A 12VAC wart that puts out 14.5 VAC
and a 18VDC 1A HP laptop supply that puts out 18.2VDC
I think it will be a DC in from one of the 3 above.
The rest of my wall warts are above 24VAC or 9VDC and under.
(now all my wall warts are labeled with actual voltage readings  :icon_cool:)

I had to sand down the mounting posts,first to get my front cap to clear the bottom plate.
Then again when I realized I would need insulators (plastic washers) as the traces touch the mounting posts.
No big deal 10 minutes with the dremel and done.

The mounting holes were slightly off,not enough that a little filing didnt fix,may have been my error or my model crybaby.

The shell I am using is pretty old ,it has an 1/8 inch plug for a DC adapter.
I am guessing it to be late 70s early 80s.

I may be able to make the dual 100k pot work off the tredal too with a little ingenuity.

OK now that the power supply and fit/mechanics have been verified time to heat up the iron...

I have to say that redhouse is being a duck. And by u I mean i. I understand open forum and all, but the passive aggressiveness is a big downer. Let's all ignore, and have fun with R.G.'s hard work and contribution.

Quote from: Beo on July 10, 2011, 03:22:58 AM
I have to say that redhouse is being a duck. And by u I mean i. I understand open forum and all, but the passive aggressiveness is a big downer. Let's all ignore, and have fun with R.G.'s hard work and contribution.

My applogies, don't mean to be a downer, I'll need to work on my communications skills.  :icon_smile:

I'm certain everyone will have fun with RG's hard work, whadda guy he is!.

Quote from: Brymus on July 10, 2011, 02:20:30 AM
I have two 400ma 12VDC warts that are putting out 18.9VDC  and 19.9VDC
A 12VAC wart that puts out 14.5 VAC
and a 18VDC 1A HP laptop supply that puts out 18.2VDC
I think it will be a DC in from one of the 3 above.

I'd use one of the first two. They look just about perfect. If you use a DC adapter, leave out the diode bridge and connect two wires across its space on the PCB. This way you don't lose 1.4V or so to the bridge, and the filter caps still filter for you.

Quote(now all my wall warts are labeled with actual voltage readings  :icon_cool:)

Oh, sure, do the smart, useful thing that makes it easy for you in the future.  :icon_lol:

Quote
Then again when I realized I would need insulators (plastic washers) as the traces touch the mounting posts.

Hmmm. I thought I'd made that big enough. Which places touch. Or do they all? I'll move the traces out to miss the posts.

QuoteThe mounting holes were slightly off,not enough that a little filing didnt fix,may have been my error or my model crybaby.

Again, if you will post guesses about the direction and amount they were off, I can adjust for the variations in the shells. I just had the one.

Quote
I may be able to make the dual 100k pot work off the tredal too with a little ingenuity.

I also did a layout for a 1" by 2" board that holds the single pot circuit and the 9V upverter. It fits behind a single wah pot velcro'd to the side wall. It's designed to be cut in half so you can get one or the other circuit, or both. I'll get that posted.

QuoteOK now that the power supply and fit/mechanics have been verified time to heat up the iron...

Kewl.

Got it about half populated last night,hopefully the rest tonight.

The traces that concern me are:
* from the bulb where it goes under R48,(that looks like a pretty simple fix)
* and the trace from C13 that goes under C15 ,(that looks like a tough one to sort out)
I think they may just clear with careful postioning,but I dont want worry about a jolt in transit causing a short there later.
So a plastic washer or maybe just a little hot glue or both is easy assurance.

I should have layed it in my shell then marked the holes for the mounting posts,or double checked them again.
I drilled those a little off to begin with anyway.
But like I said no big deal ,just a little file work and it lines up fine.
(The holes for the treadel tension lined up just fine)

One thing slowing me down is the schematic has pads marked W1 - W14
And the board is labeled A ,B,J,H,X,ect

I would like to add a rate indicator LED under the treadel for visual effect,so I am thinking about that too.
Well I should have the board completely populated tonight,and maybe some of the off board wiring.

I forgot to ask
For the high impedence input.
Do I just change R3 to 1M or higher ?

And leave out R2 ?
I only need one input.
Thanks,Bryan

R51 is mis labeled as R49 on the layout (there are 2 R49's)
R51 is the one belowe R30 and the A1 ,A pads.

For R35,36  is 86K OK or 68K even ?
Thats the phase mix at TR3 IIRC

And for R4 and R7 would 1.5M or 1M be OK ?
If not I can make 1M2 with a 1M and 220K if thats better.

I was thinking If A1 and A are to get two inputs and most people wont want that.(I think)
A and its trace could be omited and that would free up a bit of room.

Quote from: Brymus on July 10, 2011, 06:48:08 PM
The traces that concern me are:
* from the bulb where it goes under R48,(that looks like a pretty simple fix)
* and the trace from C13 that goes under C15 ,(that looks like a tough one to sort out)
I think they may just clear with careful postioning,but I dont want worry about a jolt in transit causing a short there later.
So a plastic washer or maybe just a little hot glue or both is easy assurance.

I'll check and see if I can give it more space.

QuoteOne thing slowing me down is the schematic has pads marked W1 - W14
And the board is labeled A ,B,J,H,X,ect

I'll go label. Actually, they are labeled on the original PCB layout file, but this was lost in the conversion to PDF. OK, I can do manual retouch.  :icon_lol:

QuoteFor the high impedence input. Do I just change R3 to 1M or higher ?

Yes.

QuoteAnd leave out R2 ? I only need one input.

Yes.

Quote
For R35,36  is 86K OK or 68K even ? Thats the phase mix at TR3 IIRC

Either way works fine. That is not a fussy part of the circuit.

Quote
And for R4 and R7 would 1.5M or 1M be OK ? If not I can make 1M2 with a 1M and 220K if thats better.

It messes with the biasing a bit. It will probably still work, but in the spirit of testing, try a 1M and 220K if you have them. It will confuse issues less when you go to debug.
Just put one end of each into a hole in the PCB, solder, then twist the free ends together and solder in the middle. Leave yourself room to clip them off when you want to put in a single resistor.

QuoteI was thinking If A1 and A are to get two inputs and most people wont want that.(I think)
A and its trace could be omited and that would free up a bit of room.

Yeah. It's that old what to put in, what to leave out thing. I was actually thinking that I may retire the existing Neovibe layout, no new updates. It's over a decade old now. I was thinking that I could put enough of the circuitry into this layout that all new Neovibes could just go on this PCB layout.

Even then, the second input is an holdover from the dark ages. No one uses the second input these days. If they did, they could tie a resistor onto a jack and hack-wire it into the PCB. Just thinking out loud.

Any change in the circuit that can't be changed back to the original circuit, no matter what flaws it corrects, will be roundly d@mned by the "vintage is not the most important thing, it's the only thing" crowd. Happens every time I tinker. I wonder if there will be all-out effects wars between the "vintage is god" crowd and the BUMS sufferers some day.  :icon_lol:

Here's the translator cheat sheet from "W" numbers to lettered pads. This is in physical order, from the center of the board running along the edge toward the filter capacitors end.

W8 = A1- one input; ditch one of these
W7 = A - second input
W9 = B - ground for input jack
W14 = N - ground for output jack
W12 = L  - vibrato output to "chorus/vibrato" switch
W13 = M - "chorus" output to "chorus/vibrato" switch
I ( no "W" marking) "cancel" switch connection from original, probably not used
X - (no "W" marking) ground for "cancel" from original, probably not used
W6 = H - depth pot cold connection
W5 = G - depth pot wiper connection
W1 = F - depth pot "hot" connection
W2 = E - common to the speed pot
W4 = D - one of the speed pot leads
W3 = C - one of the speed pot leads
W10 = K - ac input, or (+) if you connect a DC supply and don't use the bridge
W11 = J - ac input, or (-) if you connect a DC supply and don't use the bridge

Thanks RG that clears alot up !

I will make 1m2 resistors to keep the bias right.

The last thing I have discovered is I dont have a 500R trimmer  :icon_cry:
I thought I had 1K and I was going to parallel a 1K resistor to make it 500R.
I do have 2K .
Would adding a 500R resistor parallel to a 2K trimmer still have a proper taper for adjusting the bulb ?

Hmm. Could work. It's not so much taper as total current through the parallel combination. Try a 680 ohm fixed resistor. 680 parallel with 2K is close to 500.

R.G.
Shouldn't D7 (protection diode) be reversed in your schematic?
Looks backwards to me.

Thanks for all the work you've dedicated to this project over the decades,
and special thanks(!!!) for supporting this community with your wisdom and
expertise.

You've probably put more man hours into this project than the all of the
original Univibe developers - combined!

I nominate R.G.Keen for the DIYstompbox community's ...
"Heart and Soul Award"

Quote from: head_spaz on July 11, 2011, 04:56:39 AM
Shouldn't D7 (protection diode) be reversed in your schematic?
Looks backwards to me.

Not in this case. It's there to protect the 15V regulator from sudden shorts in the incoming bulk DC line. Without it, the regulator can die when capacitance on its output is left charged if the input voltage suddenly goes to zero. But you raise a point that needs addressed. If you do the thing I was suggesting, putting wires across the BR1 holes with a DC input, there then is *no* polarity protection on this thing. Bad juju indeed.

What ought to happen is a diode across the + side of the bridge printing, a wire on the other. This gives series diode protection for reverse voltage, and leaves the (-) side at ground.

Thanks! I wouldn't have caught that without your note.

QuoteThanks for all the work you've dedicated to this project over the decades,

You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words.

Quote from: Brymus on July 10, 2011, 11:59:17 PM...
I will make 1m2 resistors to keep the bias right.

The last thing I have discovered is I dont have a 500R trimmer  :icon_cry:
I thought I had 1K and I was going to parallel a 1K resistor to make it 500R.
I do have 2K .

Would adding a 500R resistor parallel to a 2K trimmer still have a proper taper for adjusting the bulb ?

The 1M resistors will work just fine, if you are worried about it upsetting the natural balance of the vibe circuit you can also adjust the 6k8 (UVCIS part# R6) to 5k6 as Bob Sweet did with his MojoVibe, that mod actually works quite well when using 2N5088/89 in the preamp section. I've tried it and can confirm it works just fine.

Speaking of mod'ding the preamp, if you use the vibe for clean stuff (ala, Gilmour) you may experience a kind of "blatty" blocking kind of distortion when hitting barr chords (on a Strat) or most often when using humbucker equipped guitars into a stock vibe front end.
(and almost always whith 2N5210 as Q1)

If you find you have this distortion swap a higher value for the vibe's 22k input resistor (UVICS part# R1,R2). I have found 27k on up to 76k to be very effective when matching a vibe to a customers favorite axe.

I can confirm the 500 Ohm bulb bias trimmer TR1 doesn't need to be exactly 500 ohms as RG said previously, to expand on this notion I can say that in reality it all depends on what bulb you choose to use at the voltage you run at. For instance if you are running a 7815 v-reg and you're using the Radio Shack 272-1139A which is a 1.5v-25mA bulb you will need the upper portion of the range (300-500 Ohms) but on the other hand if you're using say a 14v-40mA bulb then the needed trimmer range drops way down to the 10-300 Ohm range, in fact when using higher voltage bulbs you can drop the accompanying emitter resistor (UVCIS part# R48) altogether, though it's always good to keep a minimum resistance to help you not blow the bulb when adjusting it too far.  

---

Unrelated to the current topic(s) there is something you should be running into very soon so I thought I'd post a heads-up and maybe you can plan around it, regarding the Dunlop cry baby rack-n-pinion system and it's geometry "issues". It wasn't really designed with pot rotation in mind and has been a "flaw" since day-1.

Why mention the seemingly obvious? well, just as when adjusting the pot in a wah circuit and paying particular attention to the end of sweep of the pot itself when securing the pot's locknut one naturally sets the pot in the bracket so to allow for that extra movement (1/8" to 1/4") for the bypass switch ...right?... sure, of course, but you'll quickly notice (in a vibe) it robs you of some noticable amount top end LFO speed.

The first solution I applied in my Vibe-Baby pedals is to use smaller upper limit resistors than the 4k7 (UVICS part#s R42, R43) normally used. I've found that 3k3, or even 2k2 work very well for this but having tried 1k5 resistors in those positions found that value was too low and the LFO can (and did) stall when you click into bypass (foot switch) which usually requires a power cycle to get it going again.   :icon_sad:

While this solution actually offers faster than normal operation speed, before we get too exited recall we then subtract that bit of treadle travel the bypass switch rob's us of and this mod actually only pulls you back to where we would have been had we been building a normal vibe, but does solve the problem.  In my Vibe-Baby (retail pedals) I've moved away from using the 'ol stomp switches for bypass and use a momentary switch that toggles a relay. Since my Vibe's run on power supplies the few extra mA for relays don't matter, we still have absolute bypass (no FET or CMOS hiss) and minimizes the amount of treadle travel lost when using the push-push foot switch.

Hope any of this info is helpfull with your build.

PS: I'm confident Beo will be so kind to let me know if this (informational) post has turned into a "duck-downer" bumming out his/her forum enjoyment experience. I've been practicing my posting skills ...is it working yet?  :icon_lol:

Quote from: head_spaz on July 11, 2011, 04:56:39 AM
I nominate R.G.Keen for the DIYstompbox community's ...
"Heart and Soul Award"

I'll second that, as we raise our beer mug's ...hip-hip-hooray!   :icon_wink:

OK then thanks for the heads up.

Everything is populated except the V regulator.
Which way should the diodes face ,and 4 X 4148 or 1n4001 ?

I added a 100R across were the diode bridge would go for AC in.(+ side  - side = jumper)
Then added a 1N4001 for polarity protection and a .1 ceramic in parallel to the 2 X 1000uf 35V caps (axial)
I used for the power DC in filtering.
Plenty of room for different filter cap options and adding the .1 and 1N4001.
I am very impressed with the flow of this layout.
And really thank you RG ,this is a very neat project !!

I used all 1uf polar electros checking with the schematic for proper polarity.
Even subbing and such everything still fits fine.  :icon_cool:
All the Qs are socketed so is the LDRs and bulb.
The LDRs I used go to 200-300R in bright light and 1M or higher in darkness.
The others I have are the same 200-330R in bright light but have lower ceilings in darkness like 100K,50K ,10K

I want to try all 5089s later ,right now it has all 5088s save for the MPSA13
I could even verify if just throwing NPNs at it will work after its tested. :icon_lol:
I wanted to socket the 4 phase caps and not the Qs but will try that next time.

So all thats left is off board wiring and the V reg.
And the light shield,
will get some pics later tonight. :icon_razz:

EDIt: I decided to skip the stereo mod for now.

Light sheild = done
1" diameter PVC pipe ,a piece 5/8" long lined with chrome ducting tape.
If I hadnt socketed the LDRs and bulb a 1/2" long piece would have been plenty.

Quote from: Brymus on July 11, 2011, 07:47:25 PM
Which way should the diodes face ,and 4 X 4148 or 1n4001 ?

Either diode should work. The band on the cathode end matches the band on the parts sketch. D1 and D2 are OK as long as there is one each in both directions, back to back. D7 has its band toward the filter-caps end of the board.

QuoteI added a 100R across were the diode bridge would go for AC in.(+ side  - side = jumper)
Then added a 1N4001 for polarity protection and a .1 ceramic in parallel to the 2 X 1000uf 35V caps (axial)
I used for the power DC in filtering. Plenty of room for different filter cap options and adding the .1 and 1N4001.
I am very impressed with the flow of this layout. And really thank you RG ,this is a very neat project !!

Thanks. That's how you always hope it will go - and it's nice if it does sometimes.  :icon_biggrin:

QuoteThe LDRs I used go to 200-300R in bright light and 1M or higher in darkness.
The others I have are the same 200-330R in bright light but have lower ceilings in darkness like 100K,50K ,10K

Yep, use the wide ones.

Sorry RG
What I meant was, how do I face the diodes (what type, how many) for making the 12V reg a 15 V reg ?

Good news ,I was able to make the RS dual pot work off the treadel with a little grinding with my dremel. :icon_mrgreen:
Sanded the mounting casting were the pot mounts in the shell to make it thinner.
And filed a flat spot in the pot shaft to take the gear for the rack.

Now it just needs the Vreg and some off board wiring and its ready for testing  :icon_smile:
Some pics will explain alot,when I get them uploaded.

Quote from: Brymus on July 11, 2011, 11:33:42 PM
What I meant was, how do I face the diodes (what type, how many) for making the 12V reg a 15 V reg ?

Oh. Yeah, that.

You put them in series with the ground pin of the regulator, anode to regulator and cathode toward ground. Lift the ground pin of the regulator and solder the diode string between it and ground, elevating the voltage of the regulator ground pin.

It'll be a little clumsy, because you'll probably need four in series. I've done this with one and two diodes, not with four, before. I think it will work. It messes up any precision regulation, but that's not necessary for this.

 

You can also just add a resistor, ala; LM317 (see data sheet) which takes up less space, and a 10uF electrolytic capacitor, it'll be rock solid. You can also add the 10uF cap across a diode stack.

A vibe doesn't have to run at exactly 15v as RG said earlier, but is a great place to be. I've found you can run them even up around 24v which gets more headroom but is not necessary, 15v does quite fine.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 11, 2011, 12:32:12 PM
regarding the Dunlop cry baby rack-n-pinion system and it's geometry "issues". It wasn't really designed with pot rotation in mind and has been a "flaw" since day-1.

Why mention the seemingly obvious? well, just as when adjusting the pot in a wah circuit and paying particular attention to the end of sweep of the pot itself when securing the pot's locknut one naturally sets the pot in the bracket so to allow for that extra movement (1/8" to 1/4") for the bypass switch ...right?... sure, of course, but you'll quickly notice (in a vibe) it robs you of some noticable amount top end LFO speed.

This is one reason I personally like the LED/LDR to single pot solution in spite of the light/dark adaptation issues. It lets you map the actual pedal travel onto the LDR resistance in a way that's independent of the actual mechanical travel issues, to any degree you want to take the trouble to make it work. Electronics is easier to scale and limit than mechanics. That's just me. Others may find that their mileage may vary.

No more progress made,
Had to take the little one to get some stiches last night (he's OK now)
But I am behind on some things ,so I may not get to finish this until tommorow  :icon_evil:
Sorry for the wait.

Quote from: Brymus on July 12, 2011, 05:15:50 PM
No more progress made,
Had to take the little one to get some stiches last night (he's OK now)

Oooowww! I still remember the stitches in my big toe from dropping that chunk of broken bottle on it when I was five. No fun. Glad he's OK now.

QuoteBut I am behind on some things ,so I may not get to finish this until tommorow  :icon_evil:
Sorry for the wait.

Don't sweat the wait for me or you. The little one is worth more than a day or two without a pedal.

Almost
There
As you can see,I ground down the mounting for the pot so I could make the RS dual pot work.
It took a 1/4" washer with a 3PDT plastic washer,but its pretty secure.
The gear is off a "life pot" it had a "D" shaft so I ground a flat spot into my pot and used it.

The 1000uf caps are fairly big,BUT,
I could have replaced the one in the middle with a 2200uf and it would have fit,but I have more of these.
If I build another I will use an AC adapter and use 3200 uf total.

Pretty much out of 1uf caps now for some reason  ::)

I wouldn't recomend putting the depth pot where I did,its really tight.
I thought it had more clearance,no matter its still fits.

I like the way the pre amp is seperated from the power filtering,and bulb driver .
And I like the way its all star grounded on the PCB,to that end I am only grounding one jack since they ground through the shell.
The layout makes alot of sense after putting it together.
Hopefully I can fire this up tommorow.

Just guessing that the Vreg doesnt need a heat sink?
I didnt add the diodes to elevate the ground,I will order a new Vreg if it overloads too much.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45722&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45713&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45716&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=45719&g2_serialNumber=1)

OK it works  ;D
I have never played one before .but,it does sound like the recordings Ive heard.

I noticed it sounds "vintage" with the bulb set kinda dim.

All the speed change is in just a slight turn of the pot/treadel.
About 3/4 of the treadel is too slow then bam its maxed out.

Yeah, it distorts with humbuckers,guess I need that 15V regulator.
Cause turning down the volume on the guitar gets rid of any distortion.

It is slightly above unity volume when engaged,no hiss, perfect IMO


I need to fix the speed control, spread out over the range of the treadel.
How do I increase the max speed?
And should the bulb go all the way off?
Because it just gets dim and bright.
And where should I splice in a speed indicator LED?

I will get some voltage readings tommorow.
Anything else I can do for you guys while I'm messing with it  ?

I used a 1M for R3 and the 2k[]680R trimmer set up,and the 12Vreg are the only changes from the schematic.
I did use all 3 lugs on each of the dual pots,wired as variable resistors like the old neo vibe schematic shows.

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 02:40:39 AM
As you can see,I ground down the mounting for the pot so I could make the RS dual pot work.
It took a 1/4" washer with a 3PDT plastic washer,but its pretty secure.
The gear is off a "life pot" it had a "D" shaft so I ground a flat spot into my pot and used it.

Very nice work!

QuoteThe 1000uf caps are fairly big,I could have replaced the one in the middle with a 2200uf and it would have fit,but I have more of these.
If I build another I will use an AC adapter and use 3200 uf total.

That's way works fine.

Quote
Just guessing that the Vreg doesnt need a heat sink?

No, it doesn't. Actually the TO-92 version works well enough. The currents in the preamp/phase line fed by the the regulator are small.

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
OK it works  ;D

Hold your calls, folks, we have a winner!

Quote
All the speed change is in just a slight turn of the pot/treadel. About 3/4 of the treadel is too slow then bam its maxed out.
...
I need to fix the speed control, spread out over the range of the treadel.

What pot taper did you use?

QuoteHow do I increase the max speed?

If you're OK with increasing the min speed too, cut the 1uF caps in the LFO by half; that will increase both min and max. Changing Q11/Q12 to an integrated darlington or changing Q11 to a J201 and changing R40 to a higher value will give you a lower minimum speed before the LFO quits because of loading on the capacitor chain, so changing Q11/Q12/R40 and cutting the value of the capacitor chain will give you a higher max speed with the same min speed.

Quote
And should the bulb go all the way off?
Because it just gets dim and bright.

Not necessarily. Almost off. It depends on the LDRs as much as anything else. It's very much a "season to taste" issue.

Quote
And where should I splice in a speed indicator LED?

I'd try one in series with the bulb, perhaps with a resistor in parallel with it if the LED gets too bright.
At one time there was a jumper in series with the bulb that would have made the perfect place to do that, but I was entirely too clever and managed to route traces to eliminate it.  :icon_frown:

QuoteI will get some voltage readings tommorow. Anything else I can do for you guys while I'm messing with it  ?

Looks like you did everything except giving us an order of fries each.  :icon_lol:

I like the bent-over heat sink tab on the Vreg. I'd have chucked it into a vise and used a razor saw or jeweler's saw to cut that off. Oh, sure, do it the simple, easy, logical way...  :icon_lol:

Looking good! Your choice of pot/switch placement might have been hard to work with, but I'm sure it looks nice on the outside  :)

Where'd Q14 go though?

Nice build Brymus, good job!

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
All the speed change is in just a slight turn of the pot/treadel.
About 3/4 of the treadel is too slow then bam its maxed out.

Yep, it's not a slam-dunk as is commonly believed.

I actually import my pots, they have a special taper to even out the speed range with the treadle travel.

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
Yeah, it distorts with humbuckers,guess I need that 15V regulator.
Cause turning down the volume on the guitar gets rid of any distortion.

That's that blatty blocking distortion I was talking about in another post, you can dial that out by changing R1 (and R2) to a higher value, I've had to use like 27k all the way up to 75k in the past to dial-in vibes for customers "favorite" axe's.

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
And where should I splice in a speed indicator LED?

There's a couple ways you can go, the Bob Sweet mojo-vibe method and the JC Maillet methods are the most popular and easiest to accomplish.

you'd have to cut a PCB trace to do the JC mod. Both work good but the JC one seems to be able to dial-in a brighter pulse. You definately need the trimmer because it's a fine balance to rob just enough current to light the LED, no easily landed on by picking an available value resistor, or combination thereof. If you do the Bob Sweet version you definately want a higher brightness type LED.

Note to RG: there's room on your board there to put a couple pads for a two-terminal pin header, that way the builder could hook it up easier ...and... if they didn't want a speed LED they could just put a jumper on it, or you could place the pads right on the trace and the builder could just cut the trace if needed.

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
And should the bulb go all the way off?
Because it just gets dim and bright.

To dial-in the traditional vibe throb/lope you don't want the bulb to go all the way off, you want it to go almost off.

Hope this helps, peace-out.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 12:50:59 PM
That's that blatty blocking distortion I was talking about in another post, you can dial that out by changing R1 (and R2) to a higher value, I've had to use like 27k all the way up to 75k in the past to dial-in vibes for customers "favorite" axe's.

The problem with that is it gives up the unity gain at the same time if you divide the input signal down. The underlying issue is that Q3, 5, 7, 9 and 10 are phase splitters. As such, they can only accept at most a signal of 1/4 of the power supply with any grace. Q1 can't quite follow even that much. For whatever reason, the 22K/47K divider on the input cut the signal by 1/3, and it stayed low. Changing the emitter resistors on Q3 lets you make some of this back up for "unity gain". You still have the issue that Q5 et.al. can't carry much more signal.

The real solution is probably to raise the power supply voltage.  

QuoteThere's a couple ways you can go, the Bob Sweet mojo-vibe method and the JC Maillet methods are the most popular and easiest to accomplish.
Here is how to do the Bob Sweet (mojo vibe) LED mod on your UVICS:
and here's how to do the JC's LED mod:

Brad, please don't use my artwork for your illustrations.

QuoteTo dial-in the traditional vibe throb/lope you don't want the bulb to go all the way off, you want it to go almost off.

As I said, it is very much a matter of personal taste.

Just for completeness, there are number of updates to UVICS that have already been done, and are waiting for Bry's experiences. He's done a great job as a volunteer for the first issue, and there are several updates arising out of his contributions.

Hope this helps you keep perspective.

At the risk of stirring the pot... which is TOTALLY NOT what I want to do.....

What is the back-story on the amimosity between RG and RedHouse?  ??? I could be wrong but it is getting mighty snippy on this thread  :-\

In the end, can't we all just get along and help out Brymus (and others interested) with this project?

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on July 14, 2011, 02:36:17 PM
At the risk of stirring the pot... which is TOTALLY NOT what I want to do.....

What is the back-story on the amimosity between RG and RedHouse?  ??? I could be wrong but it is getting mighty snippy on this thread  :-\

In the end, can't we all just get along and help out Brymus (and others interested) with this project?

There is none, we're past all that.

Where am I sounding snippy now Guv? I thought I tightened up on the communication faux-pas after Beo's post. Help me out here.

Quote from: R.G. on July 14, 2011, 02:28:20 PM
Brad, please don't use my artwork for your illustrations.

It's a screen shot of my computer not your PDF artwork, but in the spirit of forum community, sorry. Would you have me delete it from the thread then?

Anyway, I was just trying to help Brymus hook up his LED into your project.

Quote from: R.G. on July 14, 2011, 02:28:20 PM
The problem with that is it gives up the unity gain at the same time if you divide the input signal down.

In my experience I don't find that to be the case. When one changes the 47k to 1M (your R3) as Brymus did you increased it by a factor of roughly 21 so when bumping up the input resistor up to even 75k only raises it by a factor of 3'ish so the voltage divider effect doesn't really give up any noticable benefits (unity gain correction) but does control the current into the base of Q1 better. Of course YMMV but that's what I found when I did all that R1/R2 testing for the Forum-Vibe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying your approach isn't golden.

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on July 14, 2011, 02:36:17 PM
What is the back-story on the amimosity between RG and RedHouse?  ??? I could be wrong but it is getting mighty snippy on this thread  :-\

The back story as far as I know it is that Brad went nonlinear when I first posted a layout for the univibe circuit in a crybaby shell. It appears to me that he will do or say anything to prevent me from presenting it. You can research the postings in this forum on that issue.

In the first salvo, about April a year ago, he finally said by PM that he was in negotiations with a manufacturer to make his version, I thought, OK, let the guy support himself, and voluntarily held the layout off the web - for over a year. When I finally decided he was either rich from it or not gonna be, I posted this run, carefully renaming it, as he was screaming about trademarks in naming last time, over a year ago. After his first post on this thread, I asked him politely by PM to not run the argument again. He ignored that. From my standpoint, he grabbed any possible nay-saying to be had.

I have formed the theory that the real issue is he views the concept of a univibe circuit in a crybaby shell as his personal property in some way, or maybe just not mine in some way. It is the only thing I can come up with for why he'd continue; and a little odd when I'm not making a penny out of this, only enabling the DIYers Brad says are not his market. He's PO'd about something, anyway. I've asked him both privately and in public to butt out. No good results from that yet.

You'll notice that I respond to his comments, which come in the form of nitpicking with things he'd like to present as problems or failures in UVICS, and that he has adopted a specious well-*I'm*-being-nice-now pretense as well. It's fairly classical passive-aggressive technique. I recognize the playbook, as I've had to deal with a few people with this syndrome in the past. Unfortunately. What does not work with these people is to not comment on their little ploys.

QuoteIn the end, can't we all just get along and help out Brymus (and others interested) with this project?

Sure. That's what I'm trying to do. But I'm past politely talking to Brad off-line or silently ignoring him. 

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 02:57:28 PM
It's a screen shot of my computer not your PDF artwork, but in the spirit of forum community, sorry. Would you have me delete it from the thread then?

The fact that it's a screen shot and not the original format does not make it any less a derivative work nor change its standing under copyright law.

Yes, please delete it.

I removed the pic from the thread for you.

Lets put aside the funk and weidness and move forward ok?.

Quote from: R.G. on July 14, 2011, 03:36:37 PM
You'll notice that I respond to his comments, which come in the form of nitpicking with things he'd like to present as problems or failures in UVICS, and that he has adopted a specious well-*I'm*-being-nice-now pretense as well. It's fairly classical passive-aggressive technique. I recognize the playbook, as I've had to deal with a few people with this syndrome in the past. Unfortunately. What does not work with these people is to not comment on their little ploys.

I think it's plain as day to anyone reading this thread what Redhouse/Brad is up to. That said, I'm not convinced that you sniping back is really helping things along. It seems to me that Redhouse is rather enjoying trying to wind you up and, well, he's sort of succeeding isn't he? Isn't your rising to this provocation somewhat diluting the fact that you're doing a really wonderful and selfless thing by providing the community with so much of your time and work?

I'm pretty sure - no one's calling you a duck (sic)

{Ooops, I was trying to edit a post and made a new one}

Quote from: GP on July 14, 2011, 05:08:59 PM
I think it's plain as day to anyone reading this thread what Redhouse/Brad is up to.

Just try'in to help GP. I agree it's a great contribution to the forum by RG, much kudo's.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 04:23:19 PM
I removed the pic from the thread for you RG, happy now?

Thank you.

Quote
Lets put aside the funk and weidness and move forward ok?.

I'm good with that.

Quote from: GP on July 14, 2011, 05:08:59 PM
I think it's plain as day to anyone reading this thread what Redhouse/Brad is up to. That said, I'm not convinced that you sniping back is really helping things along. It seems to me that Redhouse is rather enjoying trying to wind you up and, well, he's sort of succeeding isn't he? Isn't your rising to this provocation somewhat diluting the fact that you're doing a really wonderful and selfless thing by providing the community with so much of your time and work?

Could be. Doesn't feel like a true troll, though. I think his agenda is pretty much spite, not trolling. It's subtlely different. In any case, the most effective response to PA attackers is to call them on it. Brad's said he's misunderstood and that he's trying to be good, please don't be weird at me any more, R.G.

OK. Can do.

We really need to focus on the hug thing, in fact probably now a group hug is in order ...c'mon RG, GP, shall we?

Quote from: R.G. on July 14, 2011, 05:22:00 PM
Could be. Doesn't feel like a true troll, though. I think his agenda is pretty much spite, not trolling. It's subtlely different. In any case, the most effective response to PA attackers is to call them on it. Brad's said he's misunderstood and that he's trying to be good, please don't be weird at me any more, R.G.

OK. Can do.

Oh yes... i absolutely agree. My take on this is Brad has a problem with the green eyed monster. I can see how it must be tricky for you to just sit there and take it when it's, again, clear as day your intentions with this design are purely altruistic. Troll or spite, he's still trying to wind you up and it makes me sad to see it affect you. Battle ye not with monsters, R.G., and thankyou very much giving so much to all of us.

Quote from: GP on July 14, 2011, 05:37:14 PM
Oh yes... i absolutely agree. My take on this is Brad has a problem with the green eyed monster. I can see how it must be tricky for you to just sit there and take it when it's, again, clear as day your intentions with this design are purely altruistic. Troll or spite, he's still trying to wind you up and it makes me sad to see it affect you. Battle ye not with monsters, R.G., and thankyou very much giving so much to all of us.

You've got it all wrong GP, I'm just trying to help.

Peace-out.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 05:29:49 PM
We really need to focus on the hug thing, in fact probably now a group hug is in order ...c'mon RG, GP, shall we?

You know, I'm all for hugging, Brad, but I think I'd be afraid, on the basis of your behaviour in this thread (and the last one), that you'd be stabbing me in the back at the same time.
Chill out! You're clearly an intelligent guy. R.G. is an intelligent guy. This is a place where intelligent people should come together to do intelligent things... not have petty fights or behave like a two year old.

(http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/111/009/original/yall%20spiders%20posting%20in%20a%20spiderman%20thread.jpg)

Quote from: GP on July 14, 2011, 05:42:14 PM
...Chill out!...

Clearly there is a lot of angst here, I'm trying to side step it though and move forward with this great project of RG's. Offering up some personal insight to save some folks some trouble.

C'mon lets move forward, be nice, solder stuff, play music.... on our UVICS's!

Anyway...
I am thinking of trying the diode trick to the Vreg,or would it be better to use the LM317 that I have plenty of ?
Could I just tack the resistor to the IC's legs,what value resistor is close enough?
I am guessing over 15V is better here than less.

Also RG
I used (the only dual pot Radio Shack has) a dual stereo 100k audio log pot,each pot has 4 lugs,3 on top 1 on bottom.
The bottom lug is connected to the wiper too,maybe each pot is stereo,hence the 4 wiper lugs ?
Maybe the taper issue is in my wiring of this pot/s ?

If you could post the daughter board for using a single pot/with LDRs ,I may try that next too.
I will play with the LFO caps and see if the treadel operates more evenly across the range.
Its range of speed now is :
One flash every second min ,or two flashes a second max speed.

I was thinking that the speed indicator would circumvent the need for a 3PDT and LED.
But I realize now it would be on all the time even in bypass.
I am still going to add it though,my pedal board can be the light show at the same time.  :icon_biggrin:

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 06:26:14 PM
I am thinking of trying the diode trick to the Vreg,or would it be better to use the LM317 that I have plenty of ?
Could I just tack the resistor to the IC's legs,what value resistor is close enough?
I am guessing over 15V is better here than less.

I'd go with the 317 if you have it. The pinout is different, of course. Um, resistor values.
The output of a 317 maintains a 1.25V nominal voltage across the top resistor, which they usually set to be 240 ohms in all the app notes. With 1.25V and 240 ohms, the current through the 240 is 5.2ma. You want a voltage of 15V on the output, and that makes 15-1.25V at the adjust pin, or 13.75V. The bottom resistor has to eat that 5.2ma because the adjust pin is designed to accept as close to no current as they could make it. So the bottom resistor has 13.75V across it and 5.3ma through it, or 13.75/0.0052 = 2644.23 ohms. Call it 2.7K.

Quote
I used (the only dual pot Radio Shack has) a dual stereo 100k audio log pot,each pot has 4 lugs,3 on top 1 on bottom.
The bottom lug is connected to the wiper too,maybe each pot is stereo,hence the 4 wiper lugs ?

Hm. Been a long times since I saw one, but they used to make four-terminal pots with a tap in the middle of the resistive element for Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation.  Wouldn't expect Radio Shack to have one, though. Is the fourth terminal ALWAYS connected to the wiper? If, so , it's just an alternate wiper pin.

Quote
Maybe the taper issue is in my wiring of this pot/s ?

Don't know. Why don't you check the taper by writing down the resistance to the CCW pin from wiper for 0, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full? That would tell us the real taper and let us make some guesses. I suspect it's the pot taper, not your wiring. We'll see.

QuoteIf you could post the daughter board for using a single pot/with LDRs ,I may try that next too.

It'll go up on the next iteration of the PCB print. You can just print that section.

QuoteI will play with the LFO caps and see if the treadel operates more evenly across the range.
Its range of speed now is One flash every second min ,or two flashes a second max speed.

You ought to be getting more range.

Quote
I was thinking that the speed indicator would circumvent the need for a 3PDT and LED.
But I realize now it would be on all the time even in bypass.

Yep. It does that. I'll go mess with how to make one blink and be an indicator too. Maybe another baby board.

Thanks RG
I am really diggin this pedal.
I'll get some more accurate info and report back.

> they used to make four-terminal pots with a tap in the middle of the resistive element for Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation.  Wouldn't expect Radio Shack to have one, though.

Standard RS item for decades. Is a $2 generic replacement Volume Pot for the millions of stereos sold 1970-1990. (Older rigs used 250K; recent gear is in-chip.)

Is inexpensive and generic quality; I used to buy several because about 1 in 10 had some glitch (skip in track, obvious channel mis-match).

Is "100K" (generally 75K-95K), "Audio" taper (really two linear segments with "5" giving about 15%). As volume-control, action is smooth 0-4, hardly changes 4-5, increases quite a bit 5-6.5, and rises smooth to 10.

Tracking as volume-potentiometer is usually better than 2db but rarely better than 1db through the middle.

The odd 4th terminal is a track tap near 40% rotation. A fair number of old hi-fis did, as you say, sport "Loudness compensation" (invoking Fletcher-Munson is gilding a mule). In general, you ignore it.

> check the taper ... CCW pin from wiper for 0, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full?

The 1/2 point is problematic on an Audio-taper pot because that's a "splice" in two linear tapers. Grab a Fender 0-10 knob and write all 11 values. You may find a sharp jump from "5" to "6". Also sometimes a sharp hop-on between "0" and "1".

Looking at the app and the RS part.... If the end-points are right but the lows cover too much travel, try 22K from each "loud tap" to bottom (common).

Thanks Paul. I clearly have become a little distant from Radio Shack's parts stocking.  :icon_lol: I had no idea they'd still stock that.

Someone asked in a different thread, and as I had my drawing already done for the UVICS work, I posted a drawing of the hole locations for the one example of a Crybaby shell I happened to have handy. It's the one I measured to lay out UVICS; as such, it's subject to the little variations from shell to shell and manufacture date of the - what, 45 years now? - history of the Crybaby.

As noted in other places, the Crybaby trademark is used for reference only and remains the property of it's current owner, whomever that is.
:)

ARGH. I actually have to type in the link if I want it to appear, don't I? It's on the first page: http://www.geofex.com (http://www.geofex.com)

Hey thanks for that Paul !!

So if I understand right, its add a 22K from the extra tap (on the bottom pof each pot) to lug 1 of the top three lugs ? (on both sides of course)
Did I get that right?

The treadel/speed control actually operates backwards right now,so I was going to switch the wiring of lugs 1 and 3
Right now I have lugs 1 and 2 tied together on both pots then thats (lugs 2 and 2) tied together to one lead (pad W2 on the layout).
Lug 3 of each pot is the other two leads.(pads w3 and w4)

Before I proceed I thought some voltage readings would be helpful:
In 18.42 VDC after the 100R 14.6/.8 VDC

Done with a 1K sine input and the LFO at max speed. (by the treadel)

Q          E                      B                     C
1)     .756                1.134                1.538/.542
2)    1.240               1.542/.547        3.212
3)    2.612               3.212                9.23
4)    3.370               3.780                11.97
5)    2.772               3.370                9.21
6)    3.396               3.792                11.97
7)    2.823               3.397                9.16
8     3.386                3.791               11.97
9)    2.789               3.386                9.17
10)  4.30                 4.80                  11.97
11) 4/12DC              3/10DC             14.4/14.6
      1.5/3.5AC          1.3/2.9AC
12) 3/11DC             3/12DC              14.3/14.5
      1.2/3.2AC          1.2/3.4AC   
13) 3/8 DC               4/9 DC              9/12 DC
                              .9/2.2 AC           .5/1.5 AC

Where I could I took AC/DC readings but the fluctuations made these just my best guesses after watching a little while.

I didnt get a chance to measure the dual pot yet but I shot a vid that shows the min and max bulb flashes.
I will post it soon.
I did count teeth on the gear and the majority of speed change happens in 3 teeth of the gear ,no foolin.

Three teeth? Wow.

That sure has the smell of a log (or reverse log) pot set up the wrong way.

Here I mapped it ,in circuit
At max treadel heel, or pot max CW
tooth        pot 1        pot 2
1               1.8r          1.6r
2              238r          1.3k
3              17.3k         15.27k
4              33k            33.83k
5              55k            50k
6              61.5k         61k
7              62.9k         63k
8              64.6k         64.4k  
9              66.4k         66.5k  
10            67.3k         67.3k
11            68.4k         69.4k
12            69.3k         70.4k
13            69.3k         70.6k  
max toe position or CCW on pot  

Now out of circuit each pot measured close to 100k ,one side was 97k, the other 106k  .
Suggestions ?      

OK the way it is now lugs 1 and 2 are tied together.
If I take the 4th lug and tie it to lug 3.
Then the pot starts at 14k goes down to 1r then back to 14k   :icon_eek:

I really dont understand this pot.

OK then 8)
* I reversed how I wired the pot.
* I lowered the LFO caps to 4.7uf
* I lowered R43 and R 42 to 2.2K

WAY WAY better !!!   ;)
:icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

Now the taper is very usable and works - toe fast, heel slow.
Now my speed goes from probably 4 or 5 a second down to 1 every two seconds.

Edit: probably more like 3 or 4 a second max and 1 every 1/1.5 seconds min.
I am gonna try lowering R42- R43 even more,as the max speed I like causes the FS to cycle.
But yeah now its fun using the speed control.

R42 and R43 are now 1.2K and I am thinking of lowering them more or halving the LFO caps again.
I like the really fast speed then slowing it down,...what can I say ?  :-X

I did the diode trick to the Vreg now it puts out 14.25 volts.

I socketed the input resistor R1 and after 47K most of the distortion on low notes was gone.
But trying to rid the blatty distortion with full bar chords using my neck pup and its at 150K now.
And if I give it a full strength strum it will still distort a little bit.

Sure am glad all the wires enter on the side ,I have pulled the PCB and de-soldered/re-soldered alot of times now.
Still no wire breakage, but lost 2 pads so far,from over heating them.

I was thinking about doing the indicator mod with an LED in series with R 46 to ground,then using the 3PDT to short out the LED in bypass mode.
Do you think that will work OK ?

I am also thinking about pulling TR1 and making it a pot on the outside,
as I like the tonal variety you can get by dimming /brightening the bulb.


Is there anything else I can check /try for anyone ?
After its done I am going to gunk the wires,and see how the transistor swaps work out.

Good work Brymus!, post a pic when you get a chance.

Great! Having the opposite log taper from what's needed does dramatic squeezing of the pot range.

You mention lowering LFO caps to 4.7uF. Were they 10uF or 1uF?

They were 10uf before.

And these are the three stacked ones connecting to the speed pot, right?

Those were 1uF in the original. Going to 4.7 or 10uF makes the LFO ...gooo......veeerrrryyy........sssslllooooooowwwwww...

I had to go check the schemo and parts list to see if my normal great  :icon_rolleyes: typing accidentally made the values 10uF. But the parts list is correct at 1uF.

Nope
I lowered C22 and C23  ???
So that had nothing to do with my LFO speed?
It was all the taper and limiting resistors ?

I was thinking about doing the indicator mod with an LED in series with R 46 to ground,then using the 3PDT to short out the LED in bypass mode.
Do you think that will work OK ?

Quote from: Brymus on July 16, 2011, 02:09:48 PM
I lowered C22 and C23  ???
So that had nothing to do with my LFO speed?
It was all the taper and limiting resistors ?

I think it was all the reversal of the pot connections and messing with tapering and limiting resistors.

C22 and C23 have nothing to do with the timing of the LFO, except perhaps loading the LFO output might affect its speed a little, but it's very much a secondary, tiny effect. What they do is to block DC from getting to the hot side of the depth pot (c22) and into the bulb driver (C23). If they're not big enough, they filter out (i.e. make smaller) the lower frequencies going into the bulb driver.

Quote from: Brymus on July 16, 2011, 02:11:41 PM
I was thinking about doing the indicator mod with an LED in series with R 46 to ground,then using the 3PDT to short out the LED in bypass mode.
Do you think that will work OK ?

I personally wouldn't do it that way. I've been messing with a couple of ways to use an indicator. The simplest way is to put it in series with the lamp. It'll be way bright in most cases. Parallel it with a resistor to dim it some.

Quote from: R.G. on July 16, 2011, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 16, 2011, 02:09:48 PM
I lowered C22 and C23  ???
So that had nothing to do with my LFO speed?
It was all the taper and limiting resistors ?

I think it was all the reversal of the pot connections and messing with tapering and limiting resistors.

C22 and C23 have nothing to do with the timing of the LFO, except perhaps loading the LFO output might affect its speed a little, but it's very much a secondary, tiny effect. What they do is to block DC from getting to the hot side of the depth pot (c22) and into the bulb driver (C23). If they're not big enough, they filter out (i.e. make smaller) the lower frequencies going into the bulb driver.

Ahh OK gotcha,that actually makes sense,because I thought I noticed Freq response had changed a little.
I was attributing that to raising R1 to such a high value.

Quote from: R.G. on July 16, 2011, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 16, 2011, 02:11:41 PM
I was thinking about doing the indicator mod with an LED in series with R 46 to ground,then using the 3PDT to short out the LED in bypass mode.
Do you think that will work OK ?

I personally wouldn't do it that way. I've been messing with a couple of ways to use an indicator. The simplest way is to put it in series with the lamp. It'll be way bright in most cases. Parallel it with a resistor to dim it some.

OK thanks again,the one I am going to use is an ultra bright blue LED.
Even with a 4k7 at 9V its almost blindingly bright.
Flashing under the treadel it should look really cool.

I have yet three more questions RG.
And I really apprecait all the help.
How would you rid the farty distortion on the bar chords ?

150K input resistor seems awfully drastic,and it still distorts slightly at full strum.
Is this a problem in the originals ?

And finally do you think a higher supply voltage would give better results ?
The lowest rated cap I have on the board is 35V.

Quote from: R.G. on July 14, 2011, 08:15:14 AM

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
OK it works  ;D
How do I increase the max speed?

If you're OK with increasing the min speed too, cut the 1uF caps in the LFO by half; that will increase both min and max. Changing Q11/Q12 to an integrated darlington or changing Q11 to a J201 and changing R40 to a higher value will give you a lower minimum speed before the LFO quits because of loading on the capacitor chain, so changing Q11/Q12/R40 and cutting the value of the capacitor chain will give you a higher max speed with the same min speed.

Duh you said right here cut the 1uf caps
I was searching for the info on the driver darlington,which I am going to try,but it took awhile to find the info I knew was here.
So it sounds like adding the FET and higher value resistor along with going to .47uf caps is the way to go.

I went to the Dunlop site and listened to the demo vids for the "Rotovibe" and "Univibe"
Now I know these are supposed to sound different.
They have quite a bit more speed,and depth.

SO I was tracing out the circuit trying to find a way to add depth,and I think I found an error.
The depth pot is supposed to have one lug grounded and so is R 50,neither hit ground as far as I can see by tracing the layout and PNP.
And my meter has no continuity at the end of R 50 thats supposed to hit ground.
The trace runs down and hits a pad for a jumper for the cancel function (I thought) and ends there.

Connecting that pad to ground gives the proper depth and phase.

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 02:11:10 AM
I went to the Dunlop site and listened to the demo vids for the "Rotovibe" and "Univibe"
Now I know these are supposed to sound different.

Careful with that comparison Brymus, the Dunlop UV-1 (Uni-Vibe) isn't exactly a good example of what they should sound like, and Dunlop's Rotovibe is not even close, it's actually a cousin to the MXR Phase-100, different caps and LED/LDR operation which isn't the univibe tone at all. The Dunlop "Stereo Univibe" isn't even a univibe at all, it's a chorus pedal like a CE-2 or other modulated delay pedal.

Try Google'ing for sound clips of Bob Sweet's mojovibe, or the K&R,heck even the deja-vibe is better than the UV-1. I've lost my sound clips in my big computer hard drive faux-pas (crashed, no recovery) or I'd post them for you here. The throb/lope is unique in a vibe and why it remains popular even though it's older than dirt and uses the primitive bulb/ldr technology, no fancy FETs or VCAs.

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 02:11:10 AM
SO I was tracing out the circuit trying to find a way to add depth,and I think I found an error.
The depth pot is supposed to have one lug grounded and so is R 50,neither hit ground as far as I can see by tracing the layout and PNP.
And my meter has no continuity at the end of R 50 thats supposed to hit ground.
The trace runs down and hits a pad for a jumper for the cancel function (I thought) and ends there.
Connecting that pad to ground gives the proper depth and phase.

Hmmm. The trace that runs from the depth pot cold lug to R50 continues up into the board and ends at a position where there should be a jumper wire between D1 and C19. That connects the trace to ground. I notice that in my typical boneheaded fashion I did not put that jumper wire onto the parts location.   :icon_redface:

If you didn't guess it should be there, that would account for it.

(in the voice of Maxwell Smart)...

"The 'ol missing jumper on the board trick!"    :icon_wink:

Jumper location is now shown on the parts location diagram at geofex.

Quote from: R.G. on July 17, 2011, 10:17:24 AM

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 02:11:10 AM
SO I was tracing out the circuit trying to find a way to add depth,and I think I found an error.
The depth pot is supposed to have one lug grounded and so is R 50,neither hit ground as far as I can see by tracing the layout and PNP.
And my meter has no continuity at the end of R 50 thats supposed to hit ground.
The trace runs down and hits a pad for a jumper for the cancel function (I thought) and ends there.
Connecting that pad to ground gives the proper depth and phase.

If you didn't guess it should be there, that would account for it.

Well I knew it was for a jumper.
But since it was omitted and ran to the pads for the cancel function,I thought you left it out on purpose.  :icon_wink:

I used a ground pad in the header,just connected pads X and N with a jumper.
But now you can hear the LFO thump at loud volumes.
I will switch it if I can get that jumper under the 1000uf cap glued to the board.

I also jumpered the 100R input resistor.
This raised the pre amp to 14.69 V with 18V at the filter caps.

And I switched C22 and C23 back to 10uf.
Lowered R1 back to 22K.
That really improved the tone.

The distortion is the same,only on full strum bar chords.
Which after playing it an hour or so last night doesnt seem to be a huge issue in real use.
Its jusy annoying when it farts unexpectedly.

I also made R42 and R43 600R this helped the max speed.
But I am going to try halving the LFO caps to .47uf and raising R42 and R43 back up and see how I like that.

Yeah I havent messed with it ,to busy playing it  :icon_mrgreen:
It does "Bridge of Sighs" freakin dead on perfect with a little treadle work.  :icon_cool:

I think after RG posts those daughter boards he was talking about it.
I'll add the indicator and it will be done.

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 08:50:55 PM
Yeah I havent messed with it ,to busy playing it  :icon_mrgreen:
It does "Bridge of Sighs" freakin dead on perfect with a little treadle work.  :icon_cool:

Sweet~!

QuoteI think after RG posts those daughter boards he was talking about it.
I'll add the indicator and it will be done.

I've actually just been leaving the old version up there until you got yours good and working. I wanted to be sure you didn't get to a place where the info you needed wasn't there. So if you're satisfied, I'll put up the version with all the collected bits and bobs and the daughter boards.

Quote from: R.G. on July 17, 2011, 09:22:48 PM
I've actually just been leaving the old version up there until you got yours good and working. I wanted to be sure you didn't get to a place where the info you needed wasn't there. So if you're satisfied, I'll put up the version with all the collected bits and bobs and the daughter boards.

Satisfied is kinda strong.
More like content for the time being  :D
The more I learn about it and play it,the more "ideas" I get about how to mod it.

Also:

The occasional "farty sound" is still a concern.
And now that the depth pot is grounded the bulb gets dimmer at the min and max speeds,brighter in the middle of the treadel sweep.
And turning it down dims the bulb while slowing/canceling the LFO.
In fact the depth pot will turn the LFO off then the bulb will go dark at the very min.
IDK if this is normal or not?

Go ahead and post the newest version If you would.
I'd like to get the indicator working.

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 10:04:19 PM
The occasional "farty sound" is still a concern.

Do yourself a favor, now that you did the diode stack thing to your 7812 and you can put to rest the notion the voltage being the issue of the blocking distortion, change R1 up from it's stock 22k value as I posted earlier.  Start about 27k and sub-in higher resistors until the distortion goes away, again, I've used anywhere from 27k all the way up to 75k in past tweak sessions, just try it, you'll see.   :icon_wink:

Quote from: RedHouse on July 17, 2011, 10:12:27 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 17, 2011, 10:04:19 PM
The occasional "farty sound" is still a concern.

Do yourself a favor, now that you did the diode stack thing to your 7812 and you can put to rest the notion the voltage being the issue of the blocking distortion, change R1 up from it's stock 22k value as I posted earlier.  Start about 27k and sub-in higher resistors until the distortion goes away, again, I've used anywhere from 27k all the way up to 75k in past tweak sessions, just try it, you'll see.   :icon_wink:

You might have missed it.
But I have R1 socketed and used values up to 150K
It stayed the same.

But it might interest you to know that when the depth pot wasn't grounded.
And the pre amp was running at 12V raising R1 did dramatically reduce the fartyness.

But now that those two problems have been sorted it sounds better with R1 at 22K since a 150K stills lets the occaisional fart through.(same as 22K)
Only with my PAF's not my single coils.

I did some reading and the dimming effect with the depth pot is normal.
IDK if it should also slow the LFO though.

After listening to clips at JC's page his have more depth or phase.
Maybe it the Resly tone caps I am hearing and not the stock ones ?

Something else.
UVICS part # R 49 and R 50 are 47K
In the other Vibe schematics these are 4k7.
Is 47K correct or a typo ?

Quote from: Brymus on July 18, 2011, 08:16:32 PM
Something else.
UVICS part # R 49 and R 50 are 47K
In the other Vibe schematics these are 4k7.
Is 47K correct or a typo ?

R49 (UVICS) should be 4k7, that's an old internet mistake that won't go away. Here's the resistor, it would be numbered R46 in the original schematic:

(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/misc/r46_1.gif)
(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/misc/r46_2.gif)

As for R50, well if R47 wasn't there, then R50 would be 47k.

Although R50 is not part of the traditional univibe schematic, RG will have to chime-in with his thoughts on why he has it that way here.

Yeah sorry, I missed where you said you tried different R1 values, the only case I've ever had where I couldn't dial-out farty-distortion on the input was with a bad batch of 2N5210's. Once I bought a batch (300, from Mouser) and like every single one had that weird farty distortion.

Hey Brymus, here is a video clip DaveFx did on adding a LED (JC Maillet style) to one of my Vibe-Baby's, he used a high brightness Blue LED, I think it looks kind'a cool myself:

http://www.lynx.net/~jc/DaveForeman-UnivibeSpeedIndicator.mpg  (http://www.lynx.net/~jc/DaveForeman-UnivibeSpeedIndicator.mpg)

Dave put his LED on the side of the wah-shell, so it kinda shoots across the floor.

Quote from: Brymus on July 18, 2011, 08:16:32 PM
UVICS part # R 49 and R 50 are 47K
In the other Vibe schematics these are 4k7.
Is 47K correct or a typo ?

That's an interesting question.

I started to just blap out an answer and then I remembered that I did most of the stuff on the Neovibe so long ago that the details were not as sharp as they should be. So I did some looking at both my schemo archive and some hand-drawn notes I made from working on 'vibes over the years. R50 should be 47K, although this doesn't matter nearly as much with a bias trimmer as it would if the bias was fixed.

R49 is not so clear. The various copies of the factory schemo I've found over time show it as 47K. For instance: http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/univibe.gif (http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/univibe.gif) and  http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/univibe1.jpg (http://www.univox.org/pics/schematics/univibe1.jpg)

Yet I had it at 4.7K in the Neovibe at one point, and at 47K at other times. It's possible that I'm color blind enough not to distinguish red bands from orange ones, I guess.  But my personal confusion became clear when looking at my notes on the originals I've fixed.

I've seen it both ways in the originals, according to my notes. Including looking for evidence of resoldering and measuring values by meter.

Lest this be thought to be some kind of mistake that just won't go away - like my getting one of the caps reversed on the very first layout of the vibe clone that became the Neovibe, which really was a mistake that can't be stuffed back in the box, I also did some looking at the circuit work I did on this the last time I messed with it.

Turns out they both work; which is good, because different production runs of the "original" had both at different times, by measurement. Why they work is the question. I think that it depends on how hard you want to run the lamp driver. The lamp driver is a weak spot in the circuit; it was the single most common repair I did. As a pure guess based on seeing how field problems get fixed in manufacturing, I suspect that it may have been 4.7K early on, and they had lamp driver failures; it may have been changed later for that reason. Or some other. This is the purest speculation about why a resistor change could have been done. The emitter resistor was changed a few times, as well. I've found 22, 100, and 150 in the ones with a trimmer. I repaired one which had a 68 ohm and NO trimmer in the driver emitter.

So - which one is correct? They both are. I've seen them both in factory units.

Try it and see what you like. They will give different drives to the lamp driver. This will matter more with a single transistor bulb driver than it will to a darlington, because the input impedance of the darlington is so high it will respond more to voltage on its input, while the single device will eat more current, and also act more like a current amplifier. The real test is whether it can drive the bulb to a brightness change that makes the LDRs work.

Hmm. Now that I say that, I wonder if the bulb driver life was all that drove the changes, or if they got different batches of LDRs over time. Could be. That is guessing, just like the guess at why they'd change the bulb driver resistors. Fortunately, we have the freedom to adjust to taste. The bulb light variation and how it matches the LDR sensitivities is what matters to the sound, by controlling the phasing. How it gets there is kind of immaterial as long as it does get there.

An update:
I added two more diodes to the stack.(raised pre amp V above 15)
Havent noticed any farts. ;D

Added the ground jumper and cut the one I added to the header.
LFO thump is not noticable now.

Halved the 3 LFO caps to .47uf and raised R40 to 4m7   ???
The speed stayed the same as far as I can tell.
It wasnt what I expected,I expected it to get slower and faster at the min and max.

I tried the LFO indicator.
I cut the trace right after the bulb before the Vreg.
I used a ultra bright blue.
But with it trimmed right to flash it was really dim. (too dim to be usable without being in line of sight)
I could no way get it as bright as the blue one in the vid Brad linked to and still have it flash.

I then noticed RG has the LED before the bulb,I wonder if that matters.
I want mine to flash blindingly bright so it shows from under the treadel.

Weird thing with the trace cut and nothing hooked up,the bulb still flashed.
How is that possible?


I socketed the 4 phase caps,will play with those tonight.

Before this last round of mods I spent quite a bit of time playing songs from "Dark Side of The Moon"
And it was excellent,I never knew thats how Gilmore got "that" sound.

I'll take a look.

Quote from: Brymus on July 20, 2011, 03:31:09 PM...
Weird thing with the trace cut and nothing hooked up,the bulb still flashed.
How is that possible?

Wrong trace or perhaps a solder-bridge somwhere?.

If the trace was cut between the bulb and v-reg the bulb should not light (at all) without the LED/trimmer connected.

Quote from: Brymus on July 20, 2011, 03:31:09 PM...But with it trimmed right to flash it was really dim. (too dim to be usable without being in line of sight) I could no way get it as bright as the blue one in the vid Brad linked to and still have it flash.

I'll send DaveFX a message and see if he has some time to chime-in here on how he did his in the video.

Hey Brad
If you look at the PNP
I cut the trace between the Bulb's square pad and the Vreg.
That leaves the bulb connected to power in (square pad) and Q13 (round pad),which is why it still blinks.
This basically just cuts power to the rest of the circuit when the LED/trimmer is not connected.
Like you showed to do.

In RG's latest update he shows cutting the trace bewteen Q13 and the bulb's round pad.

At least thats my understanding ,I may be wrong.

I just spent two hours looking for some info about the Univibe and mods.

I found it in a copy of Brad's forum vibe PDF that someone posted to the net (you have to e-mail Brad to get it)
I think you would get alot more kudos if you just posted that PDF Brad really good info in there. :icon_wink:

I gotta say between the "technology of" at GEO ,JCM's page that Brad linked to earlier and the info in Brad's PDF
Its all there.
Also some of JC's older posts here contain alot of good info on shaping the LFO and such.
And also on adding an LFO indicator.

Quote from: Brymus on July 21, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
I just spent two hours looking for some info about the Univibe and mods.

I found it in a copy of Brad's forum vibe PDF that someone posted to the net (you have to e-mail Brad to get it)
I think you would get alot more kudos if you just posted that PDF Brad really good info in there. :icon_wink:

I gotta say between the "technology of" at GEO ,JCM's page that Brad linked to earlier and the info in Brad's PDF
Its all there.
Also some of JC's older posts here contain alot of good info on shaping the LFO and such.
And also on adding an LFO indicator.

Thanks for any kind words Brymus.  :)

The Forum-Vibe PDF's all had errors, no matter how hard I tried and I re-did it like 4 times since the first one in 2005 and people still found errors ...sooooo... I bit the bullet and did it with webpages now which are instantly editable and everybody is "on the same page" so to speak.
(error were in the documentation only, not the PCB layout)

The new, improved (ie; less mistakes than before) Forum-Vibe docs are here: http://www.classicamplification.net/forumvibe/ (http://www.classicamplification.net/forumvibe/) no more PDF's, if you have one and go by it, know that there are mistakes and ...you're on your own.  :icon_wink:

The webform you fill out (if you want to receive the v3 layyout file) gets you a PDF, but it's only the toner transfer pattern, no other documentation because doc's are all on the website now.

Quote from: Brymus
If you look at the PNP
I cut the trace between the Bulb's square pad and the Vreg.
That leaves the bulb connected to power in (square pad) and Q13 (round pad),which is why it still blinks.

Hmm, I'm not seeing that. In the files I'm looking at the power rail comes from the big caps, tags Q12 and Q13, then travels up to the sq-pad for the bulb, then to the sq-pad on v-reg.

The way I'm seeing it if you cut the trace between the sq-pad (bulb) and the sq-pad (v-reg) you loose power to the rest of the board, am I needing new glasses again?

I bit the bullet and did it with webpages now which are instantly
editable and everybody is "on the same page" so to speak.

Oh, didn't catch that Brad.
I'll pull the PDFs I have on line so there is less clutter
and your web pages can be the main documents.
Carry on folks.
Nice work Bryan!  ;)

EDIT:
Hey! The site pages for the Forum vibe look sharp Brad!
Nice work on those. Comprehensive!  :icon_wink:

Quote from: John Lyons on July 21, 2011, 06:07:39 PM
I'll pull the PDFs I have on line so there is less clutter

Probably best, thanks John.

The way that looks simplest to me is to put the LED in series with the lamp. The lamp pulls a current between 0 and probably 25-40ma. This is very close to the current range for an LED. It's too high at the top end, and may not go all the way to zero. That makes it desirable to pass some current around it so the LED is not passing it all. A resistor can do that.

I'll do a bit of simulation and make some recommendations.

@Brad
Yeah I hooked it up like the pic you posted.
It still works just not as bright as I wanted.
And the way I see it without the LED and trimmer the rest of the board would lose power that way.
So yes.



The best way is probably like RG shows in the UVICS 3, in series before the bulb.
I also tried in series with R46 it was still really dim.

Has anyone tried what I think is called regenerative feed back ?
I read a post by Mark Hammer from 04' saying something about a 100k pot and a small cap from output to input.
And that it either sounds great or horrible.
Can anyone report on trying this ?

Ok I tried it.
Its pretty cool .
I used a 500K pot.
For a small cap like 470 it can go as low as a few ohms without complete oscillation/feedback.
The larger the cap the more resistance you need to keep it usable.

But it really does add some depth to it,much more phaser like.

That combined with some switchable tone caps can really open up the sonic pallet in the vibe.

Quote from: Brymus on July 22, 2011, 04:23:46 AM
Ok I tried it.
Its pretty cool .
I used a 500K pot.
For a small cap like 470 it can go as low as a few ohms without complete oscillation/feedback.
The larger the cap the more resistance you need to keep it usable.

But it really does add some depth to it,much more phaser like.

That combined with some switchable tone caps can really open up the sonic pallet in the vibe.

Yeah, the feedback thing (IMO) takes it away from "vibe" zone and into the Phase-90'ish realm. I even had switchable caps to bring it closer but I don't use feedback on my vibes because I feel it's better to use a Ph-90/Ross for that tone.
(and besides, they do that sound better anyway)

As a side note, years ago I used to try to make/build things into the proverbial "one size fits all" (ie, had an SG that tried to do Zeppelin and Hendrix tones with an HSS topology, a JCM800 with plexi mods switching etc) but the tradeoffs always end up getting nothing "nailed" and everything "almost" there, so I changed my approach in favor of using the right tool for the job. Yeah it means more gear, but the tone is "there" when you need it, no compromise. YMMV

Quote from: Brymus on July 22, 2011, 02:28:51 AM
The best way is probably like RG shows in the UVICS 3, in series before the bulb.

IMHO, and not meant negatively, the best way is using separate power traces in a vibe layout so you can mess with the bulb (and LFO section) separately from the audio section power, but that's only my opinion.
(ie; my Vibe-Baby, Classic VIbe, and Forum-Vibe all use that topology)

Doing so allows one to have the original format, or the modifed v-reg format, and manipulating the bulb without effecting the rest of the circuit. Unrelated to this UVICS layout, I supply a 2-pin header on my boards (only to certain customers) that allows the easy addition of the JC-LED-mod, if the end user chooses not to utilize that option a simple jumper like the kind you find on a computer motherboard is placed on that 2-pin header. I did make this suggestion earlier and it was not welcomed, but it is a very cool option and makes it easy to add/delete the LED for the end user.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 22, 2011, 09:30:08 AM
IMHO, and not meant negatively, the best way is using separate power traces in a vibe layout so you can mess with the bulb (and LFO section) separately from the audio section power, but that's only my opinion.
(ie; my Vibe-Baby, Classic VIbe, and Forum-Vibe all use that topology)

I think I agree with a statement you've made before - rearranging the traces on an existing PCB layout isn't really up to the level of being design work. It's no biggie.

When Bry has a light/indicator he likes, I'll drop it in. Takes under 10 minutes to rework the layout for things like that, including rebuilding the PDFs.

Not meant negatively, and as you're not doubt aware and will agree wholeheartedly with, the whole issue of increasing flexibility necessarily increases complexity. Adding options means adding space and extra pads and traces; in the limit, the layout becomes perfboard - absolutely flexible, but maximally complex for the person who puts it together. And with maximal possibilities for customization inherently comes maximal opportunities to make mistakes. It's very much a two-edged sword.

Someone choosing only the good mods is always open to interpretation. If less that every possible mod is included, then there will inevitably be builders who want the ones that were left out in the interests of simplicity, no matter what.

Shrug. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

I can always do a maximal-modder layout incorporating spaces for every possible mod, option, and tinkering/setting option. You know, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I have the eight-stage vibe with stereo outputs layout still in the archives. No biggie.

What do you think, gentle readers? And be careful what you ask for - you just might get it...  :icon_lol:

You crack me up sometimes RG (well ok, most of the time).
Nice bit of "trace pushing" if I do say so myself...

(http://www.classicamplification.com/effects/misc/vb_pro.gif)  

and a few more...

(http://www.classicamplification.com/effects/misc/vb_builds.gif)  

Hey, you should post some pic's of yours!.    :)

Peace out.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 22, 2011, 06:19:41 PM
You crack me up sometimes RG (well ok, most of the time) when you do a vibe layout you're "designing", everybody else is just "pushing around traces".

And you crack me up sometimes, you kidster you.  :icon_biggrin:
I was referring to the direct quote below that I believe you wrote in the forum vibe stuff that someone emailed to me:

QuoteIt isn't a new design, unless you tend to call reworking a PCB layout designing (which I don't),

I kind of agree with you on that. I think of design as a much more enlightened and demanding activity. But I don't much care what we call PCB redesign. Some PCB work is closer to crosswords and doodling, some takes attention and focus. Shrug. I'm good with calling PCB work design or not, whichever you'd prefer. You pick, I'll call it that. How much fairer could that be?  :icon_biggrin:

Quote
Hey, you should post some pic's of yours!

No need to.  :)

It's all good. Peace, love and purity of essence, campfires, and  - well, you know.  :icon_lol:

Quote from: R.G. on July 22, 2011, 02:06:02 PM

I can always do a maximal-modder layout incorporating spaces for every possible mod, option, and tinkering/setting option. You know, now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I have the eight-stage vibe with stereo outputs layout still in the archives. No biggie.

What do you think, gentle readers? And be careful what you ask for - you just might get it...  :icon_lol:

Seriously ?
Oh  sh!t yes !!!!!
In my researching the univibe I have seen people asking you to show your omni vibe for years,in different forums.
I for one would love to see what that modder deluxe 8 stage vibe would look and sound like.

Sounds awesome!

Will it incorporate a toggle switch to return to normal (4-stage?) mojo-riffic Univibe mode?

More importantly,

Is it illegal in any states?  ;)

Quote from: phector2004 on July 22, 2011, 11:52:27 PM
Will it incorporate a toggle switch to return to normal (4-stage?) mojo-riffic Univibe mode?

It's back to the flexibility/complexity tradeoff. That was not a joke.  The real problem in all this is deciding what to put in and what to take out.

QuoteMore importantly,
Is it illegal in any states?

It's not illegal in Texas. Maybe California.  :icon_lol:

And it's almost certain to be a federal offense to take one across a state line.

Quote from: R.G. on July 22, 2011, 08:06:33 PM
I was referring to the direct quote below that I believe you wrote in the forum vibe stuff that someone emailed to me:

QuoteIt isn't a new design, unless you tend to call reworking a PCB layout designing (which I don't),

I kind of agree with you on that. I think of design as a much more enlightened and demanding activity. But I don't much care what we call PCB redesign. Some PCB work is closer to crosswords and doodling, some takes attention and focus. Shrug. I'm good with calling PCB work design or not, whichever you'd prefer. You pick, I'll call it that. How much fairer could that be?  :icon_biggrin:

I totally agree your UVICS project as with my own vibe's are definately not "designs" but simply implementations of ideas from various sources.

Did you read the old PDF's or visit the new webpages?

Speaking of incorporating mods, reviewing the coolness in the UVICS:

• Next generation Neovibe, complete with v-reg mod
• JC's bias offset mod (wins best mod award IMHO)
• Both my darlington mods (LFO and Q10), and my 1M input bias mod
• Bob Sweet's single-pot speed ctrl (currently gone, but you said might be back)
• JC's speed LED mod (not there yet, but you said you're working on it)
• Resley-Tone/Rands/RM Voodoo Vibe Q11 addition (UVICS Q14)
• Fits in a wah-shell

You're amazing RG, goodonya!.
(Scottish phrase, means "atta boy")

A few more things you can add, how about the RM Tremolo mod lots of people like that, and my "Multi-Vibe" mod (or a flavor thereof) that's really popular too, and of course JC's mU front end option which brings better fidelity to the vibe.

Hello hello.. I'm chiming in a bit late I realize, but that's my vid that Brad linked and  I will clarify upon what i did.. I did what JC Maillet had posted a few years ago.. It was a super bright blue INLINE with the B+ going to the bulb, with a 500 ohm trimmer in parallel with the LED. That's it. Works great:)  Just play with the trimmer till you have the desired result.  Or if you have it figured out then, what ever works is what i say :)

Dave

Quote from: Davefx on July 23, 2011, 06:31:47 PM
Hello hello.. I'm chiming in a bit late I realize, but that's my vid that Brad linked and  I will clarify upon what i did.. I did what JC Maillet had posted a few years ago.. It was a super bright blue INLINE with the B+ going to the bulb, with a 500 ohm trimmer in parallel with the LED. That's it. Works great:)  Just play with the trimmer till you have the desired result.  Or if you have it figured out then, what ever works is what i say :)

That's what I was suggesting earlier, and it's the solution I have in the currently-online layout. It's probably the simplest way to go about it. As I noted, the bulb currents are almost right for an LED, so with a little work, it can be made happy in that environment.

I have a scheme worked up for turning the LED off when the thing is bypassed. You use an LED/phototransistor module, which can come in DIP-6 or DIP-4 packages and have the bypass switch put current into the LED. The photo transistor is hooked across the LED and the same bulb current still goes in, but the LED is "muted". I'm trying to see if it can be stuffed into the layout. Might need to be out with the indicator LED.

Quote from: R.G. on July 23, 2011, 07:23:35 PM
As I noted, the bulb currents are almost right for an LED, so with a little work, it can be made happy in that environment.

a current of 0.1mA is enough to light it up an LED moderately ... the current through the bulb can be anywhere around 10~40mA (or more) at its peak depending on bulb filament ... that's a 100:1 (or more) ratio ...

the resistor/trimmer across the LED acts as a current divider // a basic concept in electronics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_divider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_divider)

Quote from: Eb7+9 on July 23, 2011, 07:52:21 PM
a current of 0.1mA is enough to light it up an LED moderately ... the current through the bulb can be anywhere around 10~40mA (or more) at its peak depending on bulb filament ... that's a 100:1 (or more) ratio ...
the resistor/trimmer across the LED acts as a current divider // a basic concept in electronics

Yes. LEDs need currents on the order of 1ma to light up well, and they withstand 100ma pulses in multiplexing. As I noted, the current in the bulb is nearly the right range, and can be made to work with some effort, perhaps shunting it with other things, perhaps a resistor. Shunting with resistors is indeed an old, old technique. It predates either of us, eh? Is there a subtlety lurking there?

On a more interesting note, I think the transistor-output optoisolator can be made to work for letting the pulsing LED work as an effect/bypass indicator, and there may be room to put it on the PCB. Maybe. The mounting holes cramp things up a bit.

It works like this: the opto has an LED and a phototransistor. Run current through the LED, and the phototransistor turns on. The phototransistor is connected in parallel across the LED, and when turned on it ... hmmm, yes - acts like a current divider.   :icon_biggrin:

Current divider. Current divider.  Cuuurrrent Deeevider. Catchy name. I like it. :icon_biggrin:

Well, anyway, it so divides the current that it divides it more and more for itself until the voltage across the LED falls under its ignition voltage, at which time our poor LED is starved for electrons and goes dark, sulking in its room because it's better to curse the darkness than to light even a single candle, right?  :icon_lol:  The electrons still go through the bulb, merely diverted around the LED.

More to the point, the phototransistor is isolated from the LED, and doesn't care what gyrations in voltage the lamp and driver are doing to it. So a current from anywhere into the optoisolator LED turns off the indicator LED, and no current lets the indicator LED's little light shine. A suitably equipped bypass switch could provide said current turning on the phototransistor and off the LED in series with the bulb.

Note that you can also work it backwards, probably. If you did a good Current Divider (that is a resistor) in parallel with it, you could put the optoisolator's LED in series with the bulb, and use the opto's photo transistor to turn an external LED on and off in time with the lamp current. The brightness ratio issues which come up every time you use an LED would still be with you, but with appropriate use of current dividers on every one of them, you could adjust the brightness to be what you want. Probably.

But I'm guessing that someone else somewhere else long ago and far away in another galaxy has already done it.

My thought was a seperate driver circuit running off the same LFO.
That way I could run two LEDs (for more light even,yes I want it ti be very noticable) and trim them to turn off and on
more intensely,than the bulb which just glows on off..

 Hey Brymus, sounds like you want what I'm going for on my next one.  I have the makings for one more wah/vibe which I plan on being an over the top "light show spectacle", lol. The one in the vid features one of the excellent boards that Brad made into one of my spare cry baby shells. Also, you may have noticed the 2 LEDs and the rock back bypass, that was also a JC design that I sort of guinea pigged with him over the last year, and I love it!  I wanted the "rock back" like the original vibe's cancel, but with true bypass.  The new one, I'll be painting with an expensive PPG metallic red, with white stenciled graphics (I have a complete PPG mix system at work so why not?). 1/4" Lexan for the bottom plate which I will have several bright leds indicators, (stop/go/speed ind, etc.) somehow directed into it (yet to figure that one out! ) I want it to be TOTALLY over the top, LOL! And I'm sure it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I GOTTA do it man, as it will be a one-off for me only!
Also, a special opto speed contoller circuit will be utilized instead of the standard 100k dual..   FUN FUN!!!! :)

Dave

Quote from: Davefx on July 24, 2011, 06:46:34 AM
Hey Brymus, sounds like you want what I'm going for on my next one.  I have the makings for one more wah/vibe which I plan on being an over the top "light show spectacle", lol. The one in the vid features one of the excellent boards that Brad made into one of my spare cry baby shells. Also, you may have noticed the 2 LEDs and the rock back bypass, that was also a JC design that I sort of guinea pigged with him over the last year, and I love it!  I wanted the "rock back" like the original vibe's cancel, but with true bypass.  The new one, I'll be painting with an expensive PPG metallic red, with white stenciled graphics (I have a complete PPG mix system at work so why not?). 1/4" Lexan for the bottom plate which I will have several bright leds indicators, (stop/go/speed ind, etc.) somehow directed into it (yet to figure that one out! ) I want it to be TOTALLY over the top, LOL! And I'm sure it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I GOTTA do it man, as it will be a one-off for me only!
Also, a special opto speed contoller circuit will be utilized instead of the standard 100k dual..   FUN FUN!!!! :)

Dave

I too prefer utilizing a heel switch option Dave.

In my case I've leaned toward the old style cancel switch and just use the stock wah-switch for true bypass and of course  tailoring the speed range into that physical area of pedal travel.

(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/Microswitch_1.gif)

(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/Microswitch_2.gif)

UVICS builders will not be able to do it like this of course because the area needed for these mods is used up the PCB and it's power section and stuff.

Feedback from my peeps (live/stage) indicates more liking toward using "cancel" during a song as it keeps the tone of the pedal during the song (that 3-transistor vibe preamp does have a "tone" to it) and then they use the normal true-bypass switch to remove the vibe from the chain for other songs.
(switching between songs)

On my (full retail product) Vibe-Baby pedals I use a dual color LED (Red/Green) for indication of effect in (On) and out (Off), it's Red for Vibrato mode, Green for Chorus mode. I don;t usually use either (JC or Bob Sweet) speed indicator as I prefer the user to dial in the speed "by ear".

BTW how's that new JC bypass board working out? is it ready for prime time? I'd like to try that myself one of these days.

Quote from: John Lyons on July 21, 2011, 06:07:39 PM
EDIT:
Hey! The site pages for the Forum vibe look sharp Brad!
Nice work on those. Comprehensive!  :icon_wink:

Thanks John, it was definately worth the effort. Thanks also to those who helped debug the pages, which reminds me, if ya see errors please send an email and I can focus on corrections.

As we take a break from our Vibebaby infomercial...  ::)

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 04:44:26 AM
My thought was a seperate driver circuit running off the same LFO.
That way I could run two LEDs (for more light even,yes I want it ti be very noticable) and trim them to turn off and on
more intensely,than the bulb which just glows on off..

Does anyone have any thoughts if my idea will work ?
I would just put it on a little board.
Would just using 2 x 4k7 to the two driver circuits (one to each) work OK ?

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 05:37:47 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts if my idea will work ?
I would just put it on a little board.
Would just using 2 x 4k7 to the two driver circuits (one to each) work OK ?

Yes, it will work - or at least can be made to work. I'm sorry - I didn't realize you were waiting for a response.

I worry about loading on the emitter of the LFO. Simply replicating the existing driver circuit doubles the loading on the emitter.

I thought about a replicated driver, a normal and darlington emitter follower from Q12 emitter, and a couple of others as well as putting the LED in series with the bulb. The series with the bulb was the least added circuitry, I thought.

But it works as well to tap off the full LFO swing at the wire pad that connects to the joined lugs of the speed pot to get LFO out. This is always full size (which varies with speed I think) but it would drive a high impedance buffer to run some LEDs.

Going back to your post:

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 04:44:26 AM
My thought was a seperate driver circuit running off the same LFO.
That way I could run two LEDs (for more light even,yes I want it ti be very noticable) and trim them to turn off and on  more intensely,than the bulb which just glows on off..

Did you want them to turn on and off more abruptly? More of on/off and not fade up/down?

OK, did some tinkering.

I think this works. Tie one end of a 100K to the emitter of Q12. Tie the other end to the base of an MPSA13 or a discrete darlington. Emitter of the darlington goes to ground through a 2.2K resistor. LEDs are stacked in series from the collectors of Q11/Q12 (power supply, that is) to the collector of the added darlington. You can use several LEDs in series until you run out of voltage. Two blues and more greens and reds should be possible.

The emitter resistor for the darlington sets the current swing and brightness swing. It goes to essentially zero, and up to about 5ma with the 2.2K resistor Bigger resistor is lower current. All the LEDs use the same current, so it's easy on the power supply. If you want to use the LEDs as bypass status indicators, short the base of the darlington to ground when the effect is bypassed. That's what the 100K in series with the base is for, to let you short the base to turn them off.

I'd do this rather than a whole new driver. It amounts to a driver circuit, but pre-biased and pre-set up to work for nominal LED currents.

For those of you who noted the eight-stage vibe, I did a little walk down memory lane in the archives today. I found three separate stages of the design work in various stages of completion, and also .... the first actual prototype! It survived moving house twice.

The file date on the layout that looks most promising to resurrect is from 1996.   :icon_eek:

It will take some work. It took importing through three level of newer PCB layout software to get it to where I could see it.

I also found a slew of other interesting stuff from the era when I was working on the 'vibe most. It was a veritable rainbow of sound.  :icon_lol:

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 05:37:47 PM
As we take a break from our Vibebaby infomercial...  ::)

Sorry Brymus.

Quote from: R.G. on July 24, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
OK, did some tinkering.

I think this works. Tie one end of a 100K to the emitter of Q12. Tie the other end to the base of an MPSA13 or a discrete darlington. Emitter of the darlington goes to ground through a 2.2K resistor. LEDs are stacked in series from the collectors of Q11/Q12 (power supply, that is) to the collector of the added darlington. You can use several LEDs in series until you run out of voltage. Two blues and more greens and reds should be possible.

The emitter resistor for the darlington sets the current swing and brightness swing. It goes to essentially zero, and up to about 5ma with the 2.2K resistor Bigger resistor is lower current. All the LEDs use the same current, so it's easy on the power supply. If you want to use the LEDs as bypass status indicators, short the base of the darlington to ground when the effect is bypassed. That's what the 100K in series with the base is for, to let you short the base to turn them off.

I'd do this rather than a whole new driver. It amounts to a driver circuit, but pre-biased and pre-set up to work for nominal LED currents.

OK thank you RG I will give this a try !!

I can't wait to see what your modder/omni vibe turns out looking like.

Quote from: R.G. on July 24, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
OK, did some tinkering.

I think this works. Tie one end of a 100K to the emitter of Q12. Tie the other end to the base of an MPSA13 or a discrete darlington. Emitter of the darlington goes to ground through a 2.2K resistor. LEDs are stacked in series from the collectors of Q11/Q12 (power supply, that is) to the collector of the added darlington. You can use several LEDs in series until you run out of voltage. Two blues and more greens and reds should be possible.

The emitter resistor for the darlington sets the current swing and brightness swing. It goes to essentially zero, and up to about 5ma with the 2.2K resistor Bigger resistor is lower current. All the LEDs use the same current, so it's easy on the power supply. If you want to use the LEDs as bypass status indicators, short the base of the darlington to ground when the effect is bypassed. That's what the 100K in series with the base is for, to let you short the base to turn them off.

I'd do this rather than a whole new driver. It amounts to a driver circuit, but pre-biased and pre-set up to work for nominal LED currents.

That's similar to the Fulltone Mini Deja Vibe.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 24, 2011, 10:34:01 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 05:37:47 PM
As we take a break from our Vibebaby infomercial...  ::)

Sorry Brymus.

Brad you have some good ideas,and lots of knowledge to give advice from,thats always appreciated.
Perhaps presenting it in a way that doesnt seem so competitive,or self promoting would be better for the purposes of this thread.

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 11:17:11 PM

Quote from: RedHouse on July 24, 2011, 10:34:01 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 05:37:47 PM
As we take a break from our Vibebaby infomercial...  ::)

Sorry Brymus.

Brad you have some good ideas,and lots of knowledge to give advice from,thats always appreciated.
Perhaps presenting it in a way that doesnt seem so competitive,or self promoting would be better for the purposes of this thread.

I agreee. Are there some classes I can take?

For those interested in "vibes".
I found the schematics to Roger Mayer's vibe at the "other " forum.
Both the discreet and IC version are there.
He has the tremolo mod ,and uses 2.2 uf caps instead of 1uf.
I know eventually I am gonna have to breadboard a test vibe to try these minor changes.

I think the "ubervibe" uses 4 regenerative feedback filters,not four variable tone caps.
The "tubevibe" uses an LFO that you can change waveforms on,in conjunction with switchable tone caps on a dipswitch.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 24, 2011, 11:19:56 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 11:17:11 PM

Quote from: RedHouse on July 24, 2011, 10:34:01 PM

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 05:37:47 PM
As we take a break from our Vibebaby infomercial...  ::)

Sorry Brymus.

Brad you have some good ideas,and lots of knowledge to give advice from,thats always appreciated.
Perhaps presenting it in a way that doesnt seem so competitive,or self promoting would be better for the purposes of this thread.

I agreee. Are there some classes I can take?

Yes but my son's daycare has an age limit.
You might be a little too old  :icon_wink:

Quote from: Brymus on July 24, 2011, 11:26:37 PM
Yes but my son's daycare has an age limit.
You might be a little too old  :icon_wink:

I'll keep looking then.   :icon_lol:

On the RM voodoo vibe, RM used 2.2uF caps ...but... (IIRC) he also changed the associated resistors so as to re-scale (impedance) of things, it comes out the same. Another thing to notice is RM used a .047 phase cap in place of the 470pF normally used in stage-3. His use of the compound transistor front end (ala Octavia) actually works well too, you can see he uses one PNP/NPN in the input section and the output section. Seems everything he did (many things anyway) has that configuration in it somewhere.

Quote from: R.G. on July 24, 2011, 07:43:16 PM
OK, did some tinkering.

I think this works. Tie one end of a 100K to the emitter of Q12. Tie the other end to the base of an MPSA13 or a discrete darlington. Emitter of the darlington goes to ground through a 2.2K resistor. LEDs are stacked in series from the collectors of Q11/Q12 (power supply, that is) to the collector of the added darlington. You can use several LEDs in series until you run out of voltage. Two blues and more greens and reds should be possible.

The emitter resistor for the darlington sets the current swing and brightness swing. It goes to essentially zero, and up to about 5ma with the 2.2K resistor Bigger resistor is lower current. All the LEDs use the same current, so it's easy on the power supply. If you want to use the LEDs as bypass status indicators, short the base of the darlington to ground when the effect is bypassed. That's what the 100K in series with the base is for, to let you short the base to turn them off.

I'd do this rather than a whole new driver. It amounts to a driver circuit, but pre-biased and pre-set up to work for nominal LED currents.

Thanks for this RG
I tried it and of course it worked straight away.
But it wasn't very noticable at min speed.
Dim and not much fluctuation.
I swapped in some pots for the 2 resistors,used a MPSA13.
What I liked best was a 4K7 in place of the 100K and a 1K2 in place of the 2K2.
This is the brightest I can get it and still have enough turn off time for a good strobe effect at all speeds.

But by using such small value resistors am I letting too much current through ?

Oh and I also have the LED connected to Q12's emitter and the 4K7 to the collector,it seemed to work better this way.
But IDK why.

QuoteThis is the brightest I can get it and still have enough turn off time for a good strobe effect at all speeds.

Are you wanting it to turn them on and off or to ramp up and down?

It turns out that if you use an Omron D2MQ-4L-1 basic switch (Mouser 653-D2MQ-4L-1, $2.44) have some RC airplane background, and do a little PCB work, you can integrate the cancel function for a univibe onto a PCB that fits into a Crybaby shell directly.

The switch goes directly onto the component side of the PCB. A music wire arm is bent to a right angle and soldered onto the PCB so it holds the lever down. A brass 2-56 pan head Phillips screw with a bit of music wire soldered co-axially into its tip goes into a loop in the end of the music wire holding the level down, and then vertically through the PCB, through a hole in the case drilled to match the PCB hole, and thence to the underside of the rocker. Using the 2-56 screw allows you to put nuts and lockwashers on the threaded part and adjust the trip point.

Rocking heel down pushes the rod, relieves the pressure on the lever and the switch makes on its NC contact, which is arranged to ground the cancel line. There are many, many approaches to this. Obvious ones are reed switches and Hall effect sensors with a magnet on the rocker; optoisolators interrupted by a tab attached to the rocker; one I've used several times before, using a dual pot when it's not needed, and just sensing DC on the pot wiper to activate something purely electronically. I liked the pushrod approach because it allows the switch to be PCB mounted, and have minimal changes and mechanical work on the shell; only one hole to drill, and that can be done with the PCB in place using the hole the wire goes through as a guide for drilling. The hole can be quite small - 0.065 to 0.080 should be fine.  You'll want to sand the end of the music wire to a nice smooth round end and possibly dip it in some epoxy for the contact end. Any of you who have done model airplanes will have no trouble with this at all.

Another that is probably a little hard to do right from a mechanical standpoint is to put a (switch/opto sensor/capacitive sensor) under the rubber pad on the rocker and have the thing un-cancel or un-bypass when there is a foot on the pedal. No magic - just application of standard technology to an ordinary problem.

And while we're at it, it's simple to add either CMOS bypass switching ( http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/cd4053/cd4053.htm (http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/cd4053/cd4053.htm) from 2000, and old at the time ) or relay bypassing using a submini signal relay like the Omron G6 series (~ $3.00, Mouser). Using the full length of the available PCB space in a shell (http://geofex.com/FX_images/Crybaby Shell Measurements.pdf (http://geofex.com/FX_images/Crybaby%20Shell%20Measurements.pdf)) leaves plenty of room to mount any of this, and still leave room for a 9V to 17V upverter with the LT1054.

It's also an obvious bit of switching to make the thing do either cancel or bypass once you've put the switching into the box. As usual, the problem is where to put all those controls. A programming jumper on the PCB seems like the obvious way to do it.

Quote from: R.G. on July 25, 2011, 10:10:37 AM

QuoteThis is the brightest I can get it and still have enough turn off time for a good strobe effect at all speeds.

Are you wanting it to turn them on and off or to ramp up and down?

Turn on and off,its more noticable that way.
I really like it the way I have it now.

Cool. Whatever works.

Are you interested in trying out the single-pot control with a LED/LDR?

Quote from: R.G. on July 25, 2011, 05:25:14 PM
Cool. Whatever works.

Are you interested in trying out the single-pot control with a LED/LDR?

I could give it a try,I like the way the sweep is on mine finally.
So I can always go back to it if I want.

What value LDR for the two LDR's ?
And what color LED or does it matter ?

What I had in mind was sending you a VTL5C3/2 module.

I was interested in getting an end-user test on the circuit before I post the semi-final layouts.

Sure that will work too  :icon_mrgreen:

I added the LEDs and baby board,but I made the mistake of using a different pair of LEDs.
They blink slightly different ,no matter, it does what I want it too.
Just a nice blue glow emminating from under the treadel in sync to the LFO.

Help me. I can't stop.  :icon_lol:

Just put up Son Of UVICS at GEO.

I wondered if I could get more stuff on the PCB. Just crossword puzzle stuff. So I converted most of the resistors to stand-up style and changed all those 1uF film caps back to 1uF electrolytic like the original Univibes used. Doing that, I got onto the PCB:
- stock univibe circuit
- three phase capacitors in each position, with room for jumper programming pins; this can also be taken off-board to a 4P3T selector switch if you like, or just left stock
- mixer/trim phase depth trimmer
- lamp driver trimmer pots
- single speed pot by use of LED/LDR module on the main PCB; for a blast from the past, see: http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/tubev1.jpg (http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/tubev1.jpg) That little blob on the lower right of the PCB is a VTL5C3/2
- 9V upverter with LT1054 on the main PCB (no baby board)
- standard/improved AC input power supply
- DC input for 15-20Vdc inputs
- two methods of installing an external LED speed indicator
- LED kill for bypass indication on both external LED circuits
- all the usual resistor value diddling, darlington/non-darlington variations, etc.
- C4 compensation standard or feedback
The variations are done by selective population of the PCB, leaving off what you don't want to use. For instance, if you use 9V DC in and the upverter, you don't need the rectifier bridge, so its space is "reused" by a capacitor used by the LT1054. If you use AC input and the full wave bridge, you don't need the capacitors and  diodes that go with the LT1054, so you leave them off.

I thought about putting an electronic or relay bypass on the PCB, extending it down between the jacks and such, but decided to try to hold it down before I went for an SMD layout.   :icon_eek:

This is a practical demonstration of more flexibility = more complexity. The population diagrams run to several pages (that haven't been written yet  :icon_biggrin: )

So - what's the most useful version of this for the DIY community? Stock, allowing resistor swapping? Or full-blown? Or fuller-blown? How complex is enough?  :icon_biggrin:

Awesome !!!!
Dont stop!!

I personally,would rather see the upverter on a baby board, to leave more room for mods or extra stages.
But I also see the value of being able to daisy chain rather than have a dedicated wart for the vibe.
So I am sure alot of people will like that option.

I have a question about the regenerative feedback.
Is it possible to use more than one cap and resistor combo,to get feedback at different frequencies?
Or do the larger caps make the smaller ones redundant when using more than one ?

When I was testing it a couple of nights ago I noticed it had all the neighbors dogs howling (with certain cap values) even when it wasnt oscillating at a feq audible to me.
It was kinda funny.

Keep on rockin RG!

I intend to.

Quote from: Brymus on July 26, 2011, 06:07:02 PM
I personally,would rather see the upverter on a baby board, to leave more room for mods or extra stages.
But I also see the value of being able to daisy chain rather than have a dedicated wart for the vibe.
So I am sure alot of people will like that option.

Since I already have a chain of layouts with more stuff shoved onto them, Maybe I just put up the whole mess and let people pick the level they like.

QuoteI have a question about the regenerative feedback.
Is it possible to use more than one cap and resistor combo,to get feedback at different frequencies?
Or do the larger caps make the smaller ones redundant when using more than one ?

Not sure what you mean. Do you want to use multiple regen paths? to different places in the circuit? different RCs to select the regen peaks? something like that?

Positive feedback works on the same concepts as negative; feed back signal, and at frequencies where it reinforces, there is a peak. Where it opposes, there is a valley. If you feed back the output of a phaser to any point along the phase line, whatever frequencies reinforce make peaks. Because the phase line has a varying  - sometimes wildly! - phase response, the frequencies which are reinforced are wobbled around by the LFO just like the the notches are.

QuoteWhen I was testing it a couple of nights ago I noticed it had all the neighbors dogs howling (with certain cap values) even when it wasnt oscillating at a feq audible to me. It was kinda funny.

Our dogs and cats have me all figured out. When I pick up a guitar, they run and hide.   :icon_eek:   :icon_lol:

Quote from: R.G. on July 28, 2011, 08:35:37 AM
Our dogs and cats have me all figured out. When I pick up a guitar, they run and hide.   :icon_eek:   :icon_lol:

Are ya sure it's the HF oscillations they're running from?

On a more serious note, just an FIY on the up-vertor thing, y'all should know it can have issues supplying a vibe.

Yeah, I know the spec sheet says otherwise but in my experiments (and others) was found it can add some audible funk (noise) to the power suppply when it's at it's peak capacity (100mA). I use the standard T1-3/4 40mA bulb and that might have been an issue, I bet if one uses the Radio Shack 272-1139 it would be fine (see below).

The workarounds seem to be, first Bob Sweet (mojovibe) solved his problem by supplying Q10 (UVICS Q10/Q14) at the 9V level, this gained just enough elbow room for the up-convertor, while Mike Fuller (mini deja vibe, also using the LT1054) and he's using a 20mA "grain of wheat" bulb seems to squeeze by.

it's a heads-up to the builders on using the up-convertor schema in a vibe, not always a slam-dunk.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 28, 2011, 09:44:57 AM

Quote from: R.G. on July 28, 2011, 08:35:37 AM
Our dogs and cats have me all figured out. When I pick up a guitar, they run and hide.   :icon_eek:   :icon_lol:

Are ya sure it's the HF oscillations they're running from?

I'm quite certain it's not. That was the point.  :icon_lol:

QuoteOn a more serious note, just an FIY on the up-vertor thing, y'all should know it can have issues supplying a vibe.

Yeah, I know the spec sheet says otherwise but in my experiments (and others) was found it can add some audible funk (noise) to the power suppply when it's at it's peak capacity (100mA). I use the standard T1-3/4 40mA bulb and that might have been an issue, I bet if one uses the Radio Shack 272-1139 it would be fine (see below).

The workarounds seem to be, first Bob Sweet (mojovibe) solved his problem by supplying Q10 (UVICS Q10/Q14) at the 9V level, this gained just enough elbow room for the up-convertor, while Mike Fuller (mini deja vibe, also using the LT1054) and he's using a 20mA "grain of wheat" bulb seems to squeeze by.

it's a heads-up to the builders on using the up-convertor schema in a vibe, not always a slam-dunk.

As with almost everything in nature, it's possible to get technical matters wrong. Nothing is a slam-dunk unless you know what you're doing, and maybe not then.

Everyone who has ever used a switching power supply for audio knows that issues of minimum load, switching noise and ripple, ground currents, overload, transient response, and bleedthrough are things which cannot be ignored. In most cases, these are layout issues more than circuit issues, and especially power and ground routing, loop area, and decoupling. As such, they remain mysteries to people who have not yet "graduated" to the more subtle issues of how layout affects performance. It's not just supplying a Univibe derivative, it's all audio circuits you have to be careful with. 

My early experiments with charge pump converters on a univibe clone were not successful, and so I just didn't publish them and didn't recommend them. It was so long ago that I just forgot about it. Then someone tried it with the LT1054, and apparently the higher current capability did the trick, at least with an external converter board.  I consider it an experimental issue until verified, because of the issues that any switching power supply can bring up. Accordingly, the converter circuit is an option, not a necessity, and it can be left out of the latest version of the board by leaving off the parts and reconnecting the stock parts. It's a good possibility for people who want to experiment, certainly until the layout is proven to sidestep the known issues with switching power supplies.

Quote from: R.G. on July 28, 2011, 11:13:41 AM
It's a good possibility for people who want to experiment

Yeah baby!  a lot of people ask about it on the forums.

Quote from: R.G. on July 28, 2011, 08:35:37 AM
Not sure what you mean. Do you want to use multiple regen paths? to different places in the circuit? different RCs to select the regen peaks? something like that?

Positive feedback works on the same concepts as negative; feed back signal, and at frequencies where it reinforces, there is a peak. Where it opposes, there is a valley. If you feed back the output of a phaser to any point along the phase line, whatever frequencies reinforce make peaks. Because the phase line has a varying  - sometimes wildly! - phase response, the frequencies which are reinforced are wobbled around by the LFO just like the the notches are.

OK
I was trying to get more depth or phase.
I tried again yesterday after reading your post and while I didnt get the results I wanted they were interesting.
Using a 500K pot in series with a 1N - 220N cap from output to ?
I found that C12 was the (best) spot,for lack of better word.
With (I forget, should have taken notes :icon_redface:) one value going to the C12 R27 junction I could get the vibe effect canceled on the high E,B,G strings and the effect was more pronounced on the low E,A,D strings.
Another cap and the vibe effect could be canceled on all but the low E and it would seem doubled rate (vally's and peaks emphasized?) and more pronounced.
A very cool effect,just not sure how to use it.
Going to the other side of C12 just meant the resistance had to be oposite for the same effect,interesting.

Other spots it just seem to cancel out the effect or oscillate.

I read a post by JCM saying for maximum depth to change one of the caps to 470uf but I didnt understand which one he meant.
I think he meant C22 (on UVICS)
Does that sound right ? ( I would like to know before pulling the PCB yet again)
I would like to get more depth at times without losing the abilty to sound the way it does now.

I did use my UVICS again at last practice,after we finished our Zeppelin we did "Breath" and "Bridge of Sighs" very fun.

I also used it instead of my Ibanez PM7 on "The Rover",I really like it for that.
The PM7 is very noticable,the UVIVS way more subtle and I can sweep the treadel to get more phasey on the breaks.
Also on "Kashmir" during the bridge and outro I used it to help simulate the keyboard melodies.

Quote from: Brymus on July 29, 2011, 07:02:21 PM
I was trying to get more depth or phase.
I tried again yesterday after reading your post and while I didnt get the results I wanted they were interesting.
Using a 500K pot in series with a 1N - 220N cap from output to ?
I found that C12 was the (best) spot,for lack of better word.
With (I forget, should have taken notes :icon_redface:) one value going to the C12 R27 junction I could get the vibe effect canceled on the high E,B,G strings and the effect was more pronounced on the low E,A,D strings.
Another cap and the vibe effect could be canceled on all but the low E and it would seem doubled rate (vally's and peaks emphasized?) and more pronounced.
A very cool effect,just not sure how to use it.
Going to the other side of C12 just meant the resistance had to be oposite for the same effect,interesting.

Other spots it just seem to cancel out the effect or oscillate.

I read a post by JCM saying for maximum depth to change one of the caps to 470uf but I didnt understand which one he meant.
I think he meant C22 (on UVICS)
Does that sound right ? ( I would like to know before pulling the PCB yet again)
I would like to get more depth at times without losing the abilty to sound the way it does now.

I see. I think you need... Mark Hammer.

Mark, are you listening? Didn't you do some detailed looking at the differences in where you applied feedback in a phase line at one time? Wasn't that on a univibe?

Quote
I did use my UVICS again at last practice,after we finished our Zeppelin we did "Breath" and "Bridge of Sighs" very fun.

I also used it instead of my Ibanez PM7 on "The Rover",I really like it for that.
The PM7 is very noticable,the UVIVS way more subtle and I can sweep the treadel to get more phasey on the breaks.
Also on "Kashmir" during the bridge and outro I used it to help simulate the keyboard melodies.

Sweet!

OK the vactrol arrived yesterday afternoon,Thanx RG
So hopefully this week I will switch over to that and a wah pot.
Once thats through I will post a build report thread with,pics,maybe a vid.

I havent had a need to mess with it lately,it works great and I like it alot.

We did do floyd's Breath at our last show,but while the music was good the singer didnt practice that song so I wont be posting the vid.
But yeah it worked great ,made the sound fit the song.

Neat.

Be aware that the LED/ LDR setup will change frequency on you a little as the LDR adapts to the light or dark situation it finds itself in, over a couple of seconds. Worst at very light or very dark.Not a big deal, just something to be aware of.

I have a question. From the build instructions one thing I wasn't too clear on was the diode bridge rectifier. I have a 18v dc + barrel - tip adaptor would I need to use a bridge rectifier? If not then what about the polarity? Which pad would + and - go to.... D or C?

R G,
Any chance you could help me out with putting in a 3pdt? Also wanting to add a volume pot to the end of this. Think I can figure that one out on my own once I see how it can be wired to a 3pdt. Also was wondering how to set up the cancel switch? Also how would I wire up a dual led? I noticed Brad mentioned using one that indicated his chorus with one color and vibe on another. Sorry I'm a bit of a noob but am learning fast.
Love this build! You are a genius and definitely someone I look up to in the diy community so thank you for all you do.
Thanks,
Aryk

Quote from: aryk on June 18, 2012, 07:21:48 PM
R G,
Any chance you could help me out with putting in a 3pdt? Also wanting to add a volume pot to the end of this. Think I can figure that one out on my own once I see how it can be wired to a 3pdt. Also was wondering how to set up the cancel switch? Also how would I wire up a dual led? I noticed Brad mentioned using one that indicated his chorus with one color and vibe on another. Sorry I'm a bit of a noob but am learning fast.
Love this build! You are a genius and definitely someone I look up to in the diy community so thank you for all you do.
Thanks,
Aryk

With the cancel switch I'm wanting it to function like the mdv-2 where the pedal is activated when rocked forward using a heel switch. I noticed someone had mentioned that they did it but only worked with the son of uvics boards because of space. Also anyone know where to find a B150k dual pot? (don't think it's possible unless I take one out of a mdv-2) Or maybe a way to make a dual B100k into a B150k, I'm told this will add slower speeds. Any help would be greatly appreciated  ;D

EDIT: Cancel the 3pdt figured it out.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 24, 2011, 09:48:25 AM

Quote from: Davefx on July 24, 2011, 06:46:34 AM
Hey Brymus, sounds like you want what I'm going for on my next one.  I have the makings for one more wah/vibe which I plan on being an over the top "light show spectacle", lol. The one in the vid features one of the excellent boards that Brad made into one of my spare cry baby shells. Also, you may have noticed the 2 LEDs and the rock back bypass, that was also a JC design that I sort of guinea pigged with him over the last year, and I love it!  I wanted the "rock back" like the original vibe's cancel, but with true bypass.  The new one, I'll be painting with an expensive PPG metallic red, with white stenciled graphics (I have a complete PPG mix system at work so why not?). 1/4" Lexan for the bottom plate which I will have several bright leds indicators, (stop/go/speed ind, etc.) somehow directed into it (yet to figure that one out! ) I want it to be TOTALLY over the top, LOL! And I'm sure it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but I GOTTA do it man, as it will be a one-off for me only!
Also, a special opto speed contoller circuit will be utilized instead of the standard 100k dual..   FUN FUN!!!! :)

Dave

I too prefer utilizing a heel switch option Dave.

In my case I've leaned toward the old style cancel switch and just use the stock wah-switch for true bypass and of course  tailoring the speed range into that physical area of pedal travel.

(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/Microswitch_1.gif)

(http://www.classicamplification.net/effects/Microswitch_2.gif)

UVICS builders will not be able to do it like this of course because the area needed for these mods is used up the PCB and it's power section and stuff.

Feedback from my peeps (live/stage) indicates more liking toward using "cancel" during a song as it keeps the tone of the pedal during the song (that 3-transistor vibe preamp does have a "tone" to it) and then they use the normal true-bypass switch to remove the vibe from the chain for other songs.
(switching between songs)

On my (full retail product) Vibe-Baby pedals I use a dual color LED (Red/Green) for indication of effect in (On) and out (Off), it's Red for Vibrato mode, Green for Chorus mode. I don;t usually use either (JC or Bob Sweet) speed indicator as I prefer the user to dial in the speed "by ear".

BTW how's that new JC bypass board working out? is it ready for prime time? I'd like to try that myself one of these days.

Quote from: John Lyons on July 21, 2011, 06:07:39 PM
EDIT:
Hey! The site pages for the Forum vibe look sharp Brad!
Nice work on those. Comprehensive!  :icon_wink:

Thanks John, it was definately worth the effort. Thanks also to those who helped debug the pages, which reminds me, if ya see errors please send an email and I can focus on corrections.

Would there be a way to fit it in a shell using the UVICS board? I know it would be tight but I'm not thinking of using the screws to secure the board just float it there. Maybe the switch could fit under the board?

Aryk, no offence intended but WTF?

You keep asking questions that have been covered here/there/everywhere as-nausium, ad-infinitum, bypass switches, cancel switches, adding volume controls, etc etc etc.

As far as the univibe thing goes the list is long with doc's and info, JC, RG, Madbean, and myself have all made doc's available on our websites that cove all this stuff, not to mention all the previous posts here (and on the "other" forum) why are you asking everyone to re-type, re-post, regurgitate all this same-'ol same-'ol? c'mon man, get on the ball and do the searches, read the threads, and you'll find everything you are asking has be discused before, ...and more than once.

Peace-out my friend.

Quote from: endorphin on June 14, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
I have a question. From the build instructions one thing I wasn't too clear on was the diode bridge rectifier. I have a 18v dc + barrel - tip adaptor would I need to use a bridge rectifier? If not then what about the polarity? Which pad would + and - go to.... D or C?

Catching up on backlog here.

If you have an 18V DC adaptor, the bridge rectifier is not needed.

As a second and independent consideration, if you plan to use the *same* 18Vdc adapter with its (-) terminal connected to ground on other pedals, you will get hum and overload issues if you *do* use the bridge rectifier. Notice that this is *only* if the same adapter has its negative terminal used on other pedals. If it is used only for the UVICS (or Neovibe), then this is not an issue.

If you decide to run it on the DC adapter without the bridge rectifier, then look at the project files on line at geofex.com. Study the x-ray view which shows the component outlines and traces as well as the lettered pads. Two of the pads connect to the pins of the bridge rectifier which have squiggles (denoting AC voltage) beside them. One pad has a "+" by it, the other has a "-" by it. You have to get the "+" pin of your adapter plug to that "+" pad, and the "-" pin of your adapter plug to the pad with a "-" by it.

Perhaps the easiest way, if a bit sloppy, is to mount your DC jack in the enclosure and attach two different-colored wires to the pins. Before you attach the wires to the PCB, plug your power adapter into the jack and then use your meter to see which color wire is + and which is -.  Write that down so you don't mix it up when you do the actual wiring. Now remove the adapter plug from the jack and stick the "+" wire into the hole which used to be for the "+" pin of the bridge rectifier and solder. Then do the same for the "-" wire, going into the "-" pad.

This leaves the wires going into the interior of the PCB, which works, but I always think of as a beginner's mistake that looks bad. You can do the same thing by running a wire jumper between the "+" pad of the bridge rectifier footprint on the PCB and the nearest AC/squiggle pad, and then doing the same for the "-" pad and the other AC/squiggle. This connects the + and - bridge rectifier pin positions to pads on the edge of the PCB, and lets you do the same hookup for the wires as above.

As a side note, don't use a metal-body DC jack/socket. Many people have tried this and it doesn't turn out well in most cases. Use a plastic-body DC jack/socket so it's not shorted to the enclosure.

@ aryk
Sorry I didn't get there in time, and good on you for figuring out 3PDT.

@Brad
Easy dude I've done some research. Try to have a heart as I'm new at this. And I read every word of this whole thread and the questions I'm asking have been eluded on by those that know what their doing not detailed out for people like me. What pdf's am I looking for? And I'm not looking for univibe info just mods to this particular circuit. (which is based of the univibe, I know I know). I edited the post saying figured out the 3ptd and that would cover the volume pot as well. Mainly I'm now asking if there is a way to get a dual B150K in there (if there is one) and if you could help me fit the cancel switch in using the uvics 3 board. I was hoping that someone as understanding as Keen to respond with patience and some guidance other than a "WTF?" from you. This is a place to learn not a place to make others feel stupid. So now that you've accomplished this can you please help me with the above items as no they have not been covered in this thread.

Quote from: aryk on June 19, 2012, 06:40:52 PM
@Brad
Easy dude I've done some research. Try to have a heart as I'm new at this. And I read every word of this whole thread and the questions I'm asking have been eluded on by those that know what their doing not detailed out for people like me. What pdf's am I looking for? And I'm not looking for univibe info just mods to this particular circuit. (which is based of the univibe, I know I know). I edited the post saying figured out the 3ptd and that would cover the volume pot as well. Mainly I'm now asking if there is a way to get a dual B150K in there (if there is one) and if you could help me fit the cancel switch in using the uvics 3 board. I was hoping that someone as understanding as Keen to respond with patience and some guidance other than a "WTF?" from you. This is a place to learn not a place to make others feel stupid. So now that you've accomplished this can you please help me with the above items as no they have not been covered in this thread.

Didn't mean to make you feel stupid, sorry if my post made you feel that way. :icon_wink:

My bracket (the picture you re-posted) fits in my pedal and PCB but I can't say if it will fit in yours (make one and see?).

Your question "Would there be a way to fit it in a shell using the UVICS board? I know it would be tight" well RG's your man on that, but otherwise that's the cool thing about boldly going forward, putting down the mouse and picking up the screwdriver one can try stuff and see/make it work, fabrication of a simple bracket is very cool once you get after it. The one in the pic you re-posted started out as a piece of 3x5 card (paper) which I cut-to-fit, folded, trimmed, re-cut, re-folded etc until I had something that would work, then I used a strip of brass flatstock (hobby shop, Ace hardware, etc) and then made the real bracket following the paper pattern.

The other thing you asked might (should) draw the usual replys, "Also anyone know where to find a B150k dual pot? (don't think it's possible unless I take one out of a mdv-2) Or maybe a way to make a dual B100k into a B150k" did you try the usual suspects? Aron, Smallbear, Mouser, Jameco, Allied, Digikey, eBay, pedalpartsplus, Mammoth, Allparts, Tubeampstore, Parts Express, BG Micro, Bonzai,  Circuit Specialists (Webtronics), Maplin, RS (Radio Spares), RS (Tandy), Future Electronics, Dunlop, Electronic Goldmine, Tayda, Electronic Surplus, Oztronics, etc?.

BTW, doesn't "WTF" stand for "Whatya Think'in Friend", man, I really need to get my money back on this cyber-acronyms book I bought, sheesh!

Awesome thanks for the info on the bracket I'll try that out. And Yeah I checked everywhere, only thing I can think to do is swap out wafers, change a 250 to a 150 using resistors, or take one out of a mdv-2. It's not that big of a deal to have one but in reading the reasons why f*llt0ne used one it makes sense and I'm assuming it would add more range to the speeds both slow and fast, so I thought I would try and find one; otherwise I'll just use the stock b100k.

What are your thoughts on a dual pot verses standard and how that effects the lfo and speed on this? I haven't heard a lot on the differences between the two and wondered if you might give your opinion before I go ahead and try them both out anyway (maybe some things to look for when hearing them?). I haven't starting mounting components but will soon and am most likely going to socket as much as I can as I'm unfamiliar with this build and want to take my time with it making it perfect.

Sorry questions are so loaded...  :icon_confused: but what I've found helps me learn faster is not being afraid to ask them and of course tons and tons of web searches.
Thanks for your patience :) (where can I find those web files you've made on this?)

Quote from: aryk on June 20, 2012, 11:55:34 AM...What are your thoughts on a dual pot verses standard and how that effects the lfo and speed on this? I haven't heard a lot on the differences between the two and wondered if you might give your opinion before I go ahead and try them both out anyway (maybe some things to look for when hearing them?).

RG's your man for all that, I don't use the single-pot speed control in any of my vibe's.

I'm fine with the original LFO, and really, that is what my peep's are after too. IMHO some "problems" don't need fixing, but then when people have all kinds of spare time anything can happen.

Good luck with your build, roger-wilco, over-n-out.

Thanks, only reason I'm using a single is cause its the stock hot potz 2 that was in the wah enclosure so I figured why not... And since he provided wiring using the stock pot I didn't think to use a dual pot but now I'm second guessing and wanting to find a dual one instead as It might give it a lot more versatility. My biggest obsession is the ability to have multiple ways to change a sound on a pedal (thank god for switches and knobs) and creating a pedal that can switch between dozens of modes is what I'm after.

Do you know anything about a mod to switch between the "vintage" and "modern" vibe sounds? f*llt0ne had one and wondered if that just meant that they were switching some diode or tranny section. Apparently the "modern" sound is more open and louder. I'd like to look in to this if it's something that can be done on this board. But again I am limited (noob).

Thanks again for your responses they are helping out a ton.

@RG
What differences have you notice when using the baby board with the single pot verses the stock wiring with the dual?

(bump) (Keen?)

Sorry - got preempted for a while.

I have no idea what 'vintage' versus 'modern' means.

The baby board changes the possible range of the LFO, and makes its speed change a little slower and 'looser'. It also makes it a bit less definitive.  LDRs have a wider resistance range that most pots, in that they commonly go over 1M in dark conditions. This may not be good, as the LFO transistors have a maximum resistance the dual speed pot can be and still have enough feedback to keep the oscillation going.  The resistors in the stock circuit, 4.7K in series with the footpedal pot and 220K in parallel, help keep the footpedal pot within the range no matter what. but if you don't have the 220Ks in there, the thing will try to go..very..s.l.o.w.. and may stop oscillating. This can generally be fixed by tinkering the resistors in those positions or changing the Q11/Q12 transistors to have more current gain and/or higher input impedance to not load down the feedback signal so much. Changing Q11 for a low-Vgsoff JFET works well, if you also change the 2.2M bias resistor to something bigger, like maybe 4.7M to 10M; this gives you oscillation at lower speeds without stopping. Making Q11 and/or Q12 an integrated darlington helps as well, but even darlingtons don't have as much current gain as a JFET. This is one place where the J201's odd nature helps, if you sub it for Q11.

There is another quirk. LDRs all dark-adapt, including the ones in the single-to-double speed pot conversion. I found on my prototype that I could set the speed, and if I set it too low, it went ahead and got even slower a few seconds later as the LDRs dark adapted. It's an oddity, but one that I didn't bother to go fix.

One interesting thing you can do if you use the LED/dual LDR thing is to make the speed switchable from one setting to another ala LERA, also at geofex. Punching a footswitch will make it speed up and slow down like a leslie rotor speeding up or slowing over possibly a few seconds.  Neat trick if you like that kind of thing. I've made those for a few performers who like it.

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 12:50:59 PM
Nice build Brymus, good job!

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
All the speed change is in just a slight turn of the pot/treadel.
About 3/4 of the treadel is too slow then bam its maxed out.

Yep, it's not a slam-dunk as is commonly believed.

I actually import my pots, they have a special taper to even out the speed range with the treadle travel.

I was just wondering where you get these imported pots? I may order some myself.

Quote from: aryk on July 06, 2012, 03:27:27 PM

Quote from: RedHouse on July 14, 2011, 12:50:59 PM
Nice build Brymus, good job!

Quote from: Brymus on July 14, 2011, 05:18:52 AM
All the speed change is in just a slight turn of the pot/treadel.
About 3/4 of the treadel is too slow then bam its maxed out.

Yep, it's not a slam-dunk as is commonly believed.

I actually import my pots, they have a special taper to even out the speed range with the treadle travel.

I was just wondering where you get these imported pots? I may order some myself.

bump

Quote from: aryk on July 11, 2012, 11:24:24 AM
I was just wondering where you get these imported pots? I may order some myself.

Well I import them, that's where I get them, from my source, overseas.

K... Is there any way I could buy some from you or your source? I would rather avoid doing it Steve's way with all the epoxy and try and do as little work as possible to get some to fit the enclosure.

Send me an email.

So I finished the pedal and to my "suprise"! all I got was bypass... :( I was almost expecting this due to the difficulty of the build and all the trannies. (been having rotten luck with them lately) Anyways so first issues I noticed and resolved was the polarized caps on the baby board were wrong. I'm hoping this didn't damage any of the other components. So after fixing that and replaced one of them (the top of it had bulged out, glad it didn't explode) and also put in the stock spdt switch instead of the modded 3pdt with LED as I was getting frustrated with the LED not working. I checked the power going from the ac jack through the baby board to the main board any everything is working fine. Where I seem to be losing guitar signal is Q1. I'm getting readings just fine on it but no guitar signal. So I'm removing all the 2n5088's and socketing them all just in case that way I can at least eliminate that issue easier (should have done this to begin with). So now I'm wondering where I should go from here? I also checked as many joints as I could for possible cold joints and couldn't find anything other than on one of the trimmers the lead wasn't through the solder so fixed that also. I put in the LDR following LED and got nothing there either. I put a 1k R connected to the + lead. Any help would be much appreciated. Will follow up with pics and as many voltage reading as I can on the Qs and ICs.

Voltage readings are the next thing to do, OK.

I noticed in the build docs not to touch the (-) power supply to the shell. I'm using ac and I think I may have done just that. Will this be an issue?

It's probably OK if you just *touched* it to the shell. Wiring it to the shell or using a metal-body power jack for getting AC will definitely cause problems.

The problem lurking here is one that I encountered in my own first Univibe clone, and one that persists because of the design. The original Univibe used a power transformer inside the enclosure and took a 120V power line outside the box to a wall socket. This is very dangerous and unnecessary for cloners, so I made the first of my vibe clones work with a wall wart putting out AC. I left the rectifier/filter on the PCB, but brought out the wires to feed low voltage AC into the power supply on the PCB.

For shielding reasons, the metal box must be tied to signal ground. So if either of the incoming AC wires touch the box, this shorts AC to signal ground. Worse, on the PCB, the AC wires are alternately connected to signal ground by a forward biased diode in the full wave rectifier, so you have the full voltage of the AC power 'shorted' by a diode. It causes problems. If you use a DC adapter, you can't use a metal frame power jack because then the DC incoming 'minus' wire will be one diode drop below signal ground, again because of the original design's rectifier.  The simplest solution to both of these problems is to use a wall wart for only the vibe clone and make the power jack have a plastic body so neither of the shorting problems happens.

Whether this kills components if you get it wrong is uncertain. Maybe, maybe not. Could kill the rectifier diodes, possibly other parts.

Best is to make it be correctly wired, then do the DC voltage thing for checking out whether the circuit is working right.

I'm using a one spot on a dc jack. Could this be an issue? How would I be able to check any damage caused?

Exactly how did you populate and wire the power inlet? Did you use a bridge rectifier or not? Or just the DC wiring diagrams?

I just used the dc wiring diagram and omitted the rectifier. One thing I find strange is that I get bypass in both on/off? I triple checked the wiring and nothing was wrong with that that I could see. Here's some pics if you can make anything out. I added a clear shaft pot with led in it for the depth pot.
(http://mail.aol.com/36611-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=26692462&folder=OldMail&partId=1)

I used an audio probe and everything is good up until R4 and Q4. I get signal on the east/right lead of R4 (looking at the populated side with trimmers on the right) and only get signal to the middle leg of Q1. Replaced Q1 and nothing changed. I'll be posting reading's here in a couple.

Voltage readings:
Socket:
C: 0
D: 18.25vdc
J: 9.02
K: 9.02
E: 9.02
F: 8.77
G: 8.81
H: 8.81
X:
I:
1D: 11.39
1C: 9.02
M: 8.70
L: 8.83
N: 9.02
1B: 9.02
1A: 9.01
B: 9.02
A: 8.96

IC1: IN:9.02 G:0 OUT:9.01
U1: 1- 1.70, 2-5.05, 3-0.0, 4-0.0, 5-9.45, 6-1.41, 7-2.54, 8-0.0
U2: 1- 9.02, 2- 8.6, 3- 9.02, 4- 9.02, 5- 9.02
(used 2N5088's for Q1-12,14)
Q1: C- 8.54, B- 8.07, E- 9.02
Q2: C- 8.97, B- 8.55, E- 9.01
Q3: C- 9.01, B- 8.55, E- 9.01
Q4: C- 9.01, B- 8.90, E- 8.61
Q5: C- 9.01, B- 8.61, E- 9.02
Q6: C- 9.01, B- 8.90, E- 8.61
Q7: C- 9.01, B- 8.61, E- 9.02
Q8: C- 9.01, B- 8.90, E- 8.61
Q9: C- 9.01, B- 8.61, E- 9.02
Q10:C- 9.01, B- 8.61, E- 9.0
Q11:C- 9.02, B- 7.42, E- 8.80
Q12:C- 9.02, B- 8.81, E- 9.02
Q14:C- 9.01, B- 8.90, E- 8.80
Q13:C- 8.44, B- 8.89, E- 9.02
Q15:C- 9.01, B- 9.01, E- 8.60

It'll take some time to digest, but I think you have power problems.

Let me chew on it a bit. There are some obvious problems, but I think they may have a common cause.

Thank you :) I noticed something strange also. My ground from board to output jack had 9.02v? I was connecting the (-) lead from the LED to it also, don't know if that was where the voltage was coming from but thought I'd throw that out there. I checked the lead directly and got 0v then the ring of the out jack and got 9.02v and then the pad where the ground wire was coming from on the board and got 9.02v so I assume that's where its coming from.

Yeah, that was one of the obvious problems.

I'm taking that you built this with the voltage doubler to make 17V out of 9V from an adapter, right?

I think that either your wiring (or mine, if I hosed that up!   :icon_biggrin: ) has a problem, or there is a biggish issue with the voltage converter setup.

I've been out all day, just got back to this.

Yeah I used the doubler. What if I replaced the voltage converter IC? I rechecked those wires 3 times now and didn't come across any errors. But I know that I can stare at the same thing and not notice the problem till someone points it out. I'm sure plenty of people have built this according to your schematics and been fine with it. Seems I've been cursed lately with builds this is my second one where I can't figure out the issue lol.

Another thing to add is that C28 and C29 have a 15V rating. I didn't notice this until now...

OK, first thing is to get the power supply running correctly. I believe you used the version with the power converter on a separate little PCB, yes?

So first, disconnect that small board from the main PCB by temporarily unsoldering the wires, and put a 1K resistor across its output. Yep, the two caps on that board need to be rated the next step up in voltage, probably 25V. If you're ordering parts, get a fresh voltage converter. While the parts are coming, try out the converter board with just the 1K resistor load.

Mmmmm. Just went through the voltages on the converter chip. Is the voltage on pin 5 really 9.45 and pin 8 0.0V??  The PCB traces connect pin 5 to ground and pin 8 to the incoming voltage. Is there a chance of a measurement error on those?

While this is going on, or when you reach a stopping point, you can power the rest of the circuit from two 9V batteries in series instead of the disconnected power converter board and see what the signal board does on the right amount of DC. Two 9V's in series will run it for a while, long enough to check out the signal function. Be sure to get the polarity correct if you do this.

So I wired the two 9v in series and got nothing. Also changed out the caps. I do have another voltage converter ic on hand as I usually order two if I need one. But wouldn't there first be an issue with the ratings? I didn't get you false readings lol sorry I had 5,6,7, and 8 switched around. Anything else to change?

Quote from: aryk on July 22, 2012, 06:45:21 PM
So I wired the two 9v in series and got nothing.

When you say "got nothing", did you wire the two batteries directly to the PCB, substituting these for the converter PCB? What do the transistor voltages change to with 18V on the PCB? If the PCB pulls down two batteries to 9V, there are other problems on the PCB.

Quote
Also changed out the caps. I do have another voltage converter ic on hand as I usually order two if I need one. But wouldn't there first be an issue with the ratings?

Maybe. Did you try the test of just the converter PCB with a 1K load resistor? What voltage does it put out? Try that before changing out the converter IC.

QuoteI didn't get you false readings lol sorry I had 5,6,7, and 8 switched around. Anything else to change?

No problem. I always have to double check my own pin numbering. I checked the PCB traces manually, and they look like they go to the right places if I didn't miss something.

Try the two-batteries test on the PCB and report back the transistor (and voltage regulator) pin voltages, and also try the converter board with a 1K as a load.

I did wire them directly to the 18v in and ground. (when I say I got nothing I meant nothing changed on the board). I'll try and get the tranny values asap.

QuoteMaybe. Did you try the test of just the converter PCB with a 1K load resistor? What voltage does it put out? Try that before changing out the converter IC.

I put a 1k on the lugs where the 18v leads were at if that is what you meant? I didn't happen to check the ratings I'll do that when I get the tranny values tonight. I'll get back to you with results.

Thanks for all the help :)

No problem. This version you're building is the result of a hardy soul who built the first version and got his working, providing me with some valuable info about how it might be easier for others to build. So this has worked before. We'll get there.

Hello  :) ! Its been a while.

I finally got back into this. From your instructions R.G. I omitted the bridge rectifier and went with a straight 18v DC supply to pads K and J using the correct polarity, jumpers, and the plastic jack.

For the first time the UVICS powered up correctly and the bulb came on. Well so far I get a signal when turned on but no Univibe effect just a clean boosted signal  ???. Now I've checked my wiring and traces plenty of times and all seems to be correct.

The one thing concerning me is when I first built the effect I did not use any sockets for the trannies and my soldering iron gets pretty hot. I have sockets now and backup parts if needed. So could you let me know what you think?

I guess meanwhile I can get some voltage readings together but also to add I am not using the baby board!

First questions I'd have are
1. is the lamp pulsing on and off, controlled by speed pot setting?
2. do you have a proper light shield over the LDRs and lamp?

Yes the lamp is pulsating on and off but only at a fairly low luminosity compared to how bright it can get. As I brighten the bulb with the trimpot it does not pulsate, don't know if that is normal
And yes the speed pot effects the lamp as it should except I have to swap the direction of its sweep.

It is a dual ganged pot both 100k ohm "A" taper. Seems that I'll have to do some tweaking though, as only a small portion of its travel is usable but I'll worry about that later.

The light shield seem perfect in my opinion. A black rubber end cap with a shiny metallic wrapper material lined in the sides and top. Perfect size, height, and flesh to the board. Whenever I tested I had the cap on.

My god man you must be helping a dozen other univibe builds!

Quote from: endorphin on September 16, 2012, 03:50:24 AM
And yes the speed pot effects the lamp as it should except I have to swap the direction of its sweep.
It is a dual ganged pot both 100k ohm "A" taper. Seems that I'll have to do some tweaking though, as only a small portion of its travel is usable but I'll worry about that later.

It's got some second order problems then. Not to sweat that right now.

QuoteThe light shield seem perfect in my opinion. A black rubber end cap with a shiny metallic wrapper material lined in the sides and top. Perfect size, height, and flesh to the board. Whenever I tested I had the cap on.

Good. That'll be perfect in the completed unit.

For now, turn off the unit, remove the light shield, hook a multimeter set to ohms to each LDR in turn, and use your hand, a pillow, something to darken the light to the LDRs and see if the meter says they're changing resistance. They probably are, but this is just to make sure.

Do you have access to an oscilloscope? If not, get prepped with an audio probe.

QuoteMy god man you must be helping a dozen other univibe builds!

It's an occupational hazard. I released the first clone board for a Univibe before there was a world wide web, and when usenet was the only network sharing. There have been a LOT of Neovibes built over the years. I sometimes wonder about the number of clones versus the number of original univibes ever made. But yes, I get a lot of questions. As a result, there aren't many things I haven't seen happen in that circuit, so it gets easier with time.  :icon_biggrin:

For instance, I have no data to support this, but your symptoms fit perfectly with an open somewhere in the phase delay path, probably the last phase/LDR section, or an open on the way to the final mix to make "Chorus". We'll go get the data and see what it really is.

CORRECTION Reversed the Emitter and Collector measurement. Q13 and IC1 are still same

Ok with my audio probe I checked everywhere for some sort of phase or chorus signal but it was all clean ???. My power supply was putting out 18.29 volts

These measurements were taken while the bulb was flashing. The fluctuating voltages recorded were at their highest peak.

LDRs: 65-55 omhs in sunlight, 20M ohms in darkness.

Transistors 1-12, and 14 are all 2N5088
Q1
C=2.07
B=1.40
E=1.03

Q2
C=4.44
B=2.44
E=1.52

Q3
C=10.88
B=4.44
E=3.86

Q4
C=14.87
B=4.68
E=4.31

Q5
C=11.15
B=4.31
E=3.73

Q6
C=14.87
B=4.65
E=4.28

Q7
C=11.13
B=4.28
E=3.7

Q8
C=14.87
B=4.66
E=4.3

Q9
C=12.32
B=4.3
E=3.74

Q10
C=14.87
B=5.45
E=4.9

Q11
C=18.34
B=11.42
E=13.58

Q12
C=18.18
B=13.40
E=12.9

Q13: MPSW45A
C=8.56
B=8.42
E=7.17

Q14
C=14.87
B=5.8
E=5.44

IC1:78L15
Output: 14.87
Common: 0
Input: 18.47

D1
A: 13v
K: 13v

D2
A: 13v
K: 13v

D7
A:14.87v
K:18.3v

Quote from: endorphin on September 18, 2012, 08:46:27 PM
Ok with my audio probe I checked everywhere for some sort of phase or chorus signal but it was all clean ???.

We would not expect any phase sound until after the final mixing. But it does tell us something very interesting if there is audio at
Q1 base
Q3 collector and emitter
Q4 base
Q5 collector and emitter
Q6 base
Q7 collector and emitter
Q8 base
Q9 collector and emitter
Q14 base
Q10 collector and emitter.

If you have it all those places, check for audio at the junction of R36 and R37, and this audio should have a noticeable vibrato/frequency shift every time the light changes on the LDRs.

Assuming that you reversed the labels for collector and emitter, the voltages are unremakable, and don't tell us where there is a failure.

Okay Q1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,14 there was an audio signal on all the leads you said to check but on Q10 audio on emitter but not on the collector.

Also at the junction R36 and R37 there was a clean audio signal but no "vibrato/frequency shift" no pulsing either.

As far as the 2N5088 transistors when looking at the UVICS pdf the layout from left to right with the same orientation the pinout should be Collector, Base, and Emitter right?

If so then I had the pinout wrong which changes the measurements :P.

Does anyone know what this could mean?

Quote from: endorphin on October 14, 2012, 12:19:00 AM
Does anyone know what this could mean?

Sounds like you might need to re-check your part orientation. Mis-placed parts are the #1 cause of malfunctioning DIY builds.

hello, I have been obsessed by the sound of the uni-vibe for ages and throughout the years I've been learning how to build pedals the Uni-vibe has been the project I keep returning to, partly cause i was never able to get it right, the circuit is very interesting from the novice perspective to study and I love the linear and elegant design of the circuit.
So after reading and re-reading R.G's and Redhouse's articles and threads like these for a long while now I would like to say thank you.

I've build a uni-vibe in a crybaby shell (with a chrome vox threadle cause it looks wayyy cooler! :P ), but i think I've made a mistake.
I used the stereo mod from the technology of the uni-vibe article and couldn't make out if it needed a 2nd transistor in the output stage, I never looked at the UVICS layout untill yesterday  so hadn't noticed it does use that 2nd transistor.

So my output stage is as follows;
It's like the mono version with only 1 transistor but with the 68k resistor changed to 100k and added a 4k7 collector resistor. I've also changed the 22k emitter resistor to 4k7.
Then the signal goes through a 1uf cap from the emitter and a 1uf cap from the collector to 2 separate mixing stages that both get its clean signal from one 1uf cap attached to the input stage's Q3 emitter.
The in and out of phase chorus mixing resistors are all 100k and the vibrato resistors are the stock 220k with the 47k's changed to 56k

Mine hasn't got true bypass but a cancel switch at the heel.
Now when i have the pedal on cancel it sounds really full and clear, but as soon as i rock the pedal forward in chorus mode the sound thins out and the stereo image shifts in volume towards the right hand channel
(which is the out of phase signal coming from the collector) I don't really hear any thinning out in vibrato mode.
Is this because I didn't put in that 2nd transistor? or do i need to take the clean signal for the out of phase chorus mixer from an additional 1uf cap from Q3's emitter? or is it just the nature of the beast?

Q1 and Q13 are both bc 109c's, the LFO has a mpsa 13 the rest is all bc109b. The lamp is 24v, LFO runs on 24 volt and the signal path on 20 volts. the LDR are 4x 11k-500k vt90n2
I've used 0.5w metal film resistors throughout the audio circuit just to see how quiet I can make this thing. also having used lots of carbon comp in previous builds I wanted to test for myself if there's any truth to the CC mojo.
On first tests I never got the impression the pedal sounds sterile with the metal films at all. It does have a lot of high end but that can be the biasing of the lamp drivers Q emitter, the combination with the fuzz and plexi-drive, or the amps. I'll have to test it for a while during band-rehearsals to make a better judgement.

I really dig how the effect changes from mono to stereo as soon as the lamp starts flashing, very much like a leslie that starts spinning. I would definately recommend trying out the stereo mod, it sounds hauntingly beautiful and gives me the goosebumps.
It sounds much less pronounced stereo as I expected but very natural sounding so very usable without becoming a gimmick. Also, I love the sound of the lamp turning on and of gradually when going from cancel to effect on and back, I prefer it to true bypass.

So all around it seems to be working fine,. sounds like a proper uni-vibe, which I couldn't say about my previous 3 builds. so the only issues are the thinning out in chorus mode and the stereo image shifting in volume towards the out of phase chorus channel.

Ok, I solved the issue. I added the extra 1uf cap from Q3 emitter to the 100k out of phase chorus mix resistor instead of taking the clean signal from one shared 1uf cap.
There's no more thinning out in chorus mode, and the pedal sounds full and clean now :).  the volume still seems to shift slightly to the right hand channel but I can live with that.

One thing I noticed is when using only the in-phase or the out-of-phase channel (slightly less) you get the typical hendrix whop-whop uni-vibe sound but in stereo it becomes more subtle, much more like a leslie. Well not what I expected but I love it.
I assume that's caused by the way the in phase and out of phase sounds meet each other in the room and create additional phase cancellations.
Anyone else  tried the stereo mod and noticed this?

next thing I'm going to is try out Vibrato on the left and clean signal on the right to see if that can create the whop-whop sound in somewhat-stereo,
by mixing the clean and moduted signal in a physical room ambeince instead of a mixer.

Are there specific LDRs recommended for this project? Tayda have Waitrony KE-10720 LDRs. From the datasheet they are 10-20K light resistant, minimum 0.5 M dark resistant. Would these be OK?

I've had very pleasing results with LDR's of those values. (i've used a matched set of 11k-500k) your's have a rise/fall time that's twice as fast as the 78ms rise/8ms fall on mine though but I don't know which are better.
The good results I had with those, where with the LFO running on 24v with a 24v lamp, single transistor lamp driver and no offset mod.
I've never had an original Uni-Vibe to measure so perhaps others with more knowledge could confirm the right light-dark values and rise/fall times.

I'm building this as a Christmas holiday project so first things first, Happy New Year to everybody.

I got a bit confused about how to wire up the power supply and the daughterboard for the "use existing wah pot" mod so I spent some time going over the schematic and layout. On the last 2 pages of the PDF on geofex.com, it shows the different wiring possibilities but shows the power as going in on pads C and D while the speed pot is wired into pads E, K and J. I think power should go into pads J and K and pads C, D and E should be wired to the speed pot. Is this correct?

Sorry, another question. I've finished my build and got it wired up. I'd be grateful for guidance on setting the trim pots. I found I could get the lamp working by fiddling with TR1 but I'm really not sure how to set the other two trimmers. Are there any recommended settings please?

many thanks to R.G. and all of you guys.
this is my build (nevermind the not so good playing)

Looks and sounds good, I specially like that old film scratches look to the video, that's cool.

Quote from: Ummagumma on January 08, 2013, 01:27:52 PM
many thanks to R.G. and all of you guys.
this is my build (nevermind the not so good playing)

Nice work!

I went away and looked at your "technology of the univibe" which I should have done in the first place so I understand what the trimmer on the output is for now. I've got my build working now after realising I'd wired the stomp switch wrongly. I had a dud spdt switch as well and I just need to replace that before I put everything in the shell properly.

I had a fair old time drilling the extra holes in the shell. It's a lot harder than drilling aluminium, but worth the effort!

This is a really good project.

Quote from: Yazoo on January 10, 2013, 01:14:29 PM
I went away and looked at your "technology of the univibe" which I should have done in the first place so I understand what the trimmer on the output is for now. I've got my build working now after realising I'd wired the stomp switch wrongly. I had a dud spdt switch as well and I just need to replace that before I put everything in the shell properly.

I had a fair old time drilling the extra holes in the shell. It's a lot harder than drilling aluminium, but worth the effort!

This is a really good project.

Thanks! And congratulations on the build.

I think the shells are actually either zinc or a zinc-aluminum alloy for easy castability and toughness, so yep, they're a bit harder to drill.

Well after having it in the dead circuit pile for a while I decided to pick it back up and can't believe what I found... All the 330uf and 10uf caps were below 16v the 330ufs were actually 6.3v!! I believe that was why I was having power issues lol. I'll fix this soon as I get the new parts and post what happens. (Hate myself right about now for all the endless nights of trying to fix it)

Quote from: aryk on April 25, 2013, 05:52:12 PM
Well after having it in the dead circuit pile for a while I decided to pick it back up and can't believe what I found... All the 330uf and 10uf caps were below 16v the 330ufs were actually 6.3v!! I believe that was why I was having power issues lol. I'll fix this soon as I get the new parts and post what happens. (Hate myself right about now for all the endless nights of trying to fix it)

That would cause some problems, OK.   I've... um... done similar things.  :icon_lol:

Alright so got the new caps in, checked the power rating and wired everything stock other than using the charge pump and was getting about 17.5 from that to the board. Turned it on and only got bypass in both on and "off" modes. Wondering if there's a draw up of where I should be getting audio with an audio probe? or possibly what my tranny's should be reading? I can post my values here in a few but wanted to ask if those things were available or able to obtain. (sorry I'm a pain...) Just wanting this circuit to come to life so badly! I even built a whole 'nother circuit and get the same results. The lamp isn't even lighting up. If this would help to narrow down something. Still sounds like a power issue to me.

Transistor voltages usually tell the tale.

And they are:
Q1:C=8.15
     B=7.69
     E=8.60
Q2:C=8.55
     B=8.13
     E=8.60
Q3:C=8.59
     B=8.55
     E=8.60
Q4:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q5:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q6:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q7:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q8:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q9:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q10:C=8.59
       B=8.18
       E=8.59
Q11:C=8.60
       B=7.06
       E=8.18
Q12:C=8.60
       B=8.18
       E=8.61
Q14:C=8.60
       B=8.50
       E=8.18

Q13(MPSW45):C=8.60
                        B=8.48
                        E=8.61

Used all 2N5088 on these. Seems something is way off. I checked all caps and orientations everything is where it should be the charge pump is working as I tried it on another 18v circuit and it worked just fine. (using your bipolar power supply idea from geofex with the LT1054)

Oh and on the IC1 I'm getting I=8.0 G=8.60 O=8.60 ...? What the devil?

Also is R43 supposed to bring the 17.41v from the power supply down to 9.2v?

Quote from: aryk on May 01, 2013, 12:53:34 AM
And they are:
Q1:C=8.15
     B=7.69
     E=8.60
Q2:C=8.55
     B=8.13
     E=8.60
Q3:C=8.59
     B=8.55
     E=8.60
Q4:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q5:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q6:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q7:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q8:C=8.60
     B=8.49
     E=8.18
Q9:C=8.59
     B=8.18
     E=8.60
Q10:C=8.59
       B=8.18
       E=8.59
Q11:C=8.60
       B=7.06
       E=8.18
Q12:C=8.60
       B=8.18
       E=8.61
Q14:C=8.60
       B=8.50
       E=8.18

Q13(MPSW45):C=8.60
                        B=8.48
                        E=8.61

Used all 2N5088 on these. Seems something is way off. I checked all caps and orientations everything is where it should be the charge pump is working as I tried it on another 18v circuit and it worked just fine. (using your bipolar power supply idea from geofex with the LT1054)

Forgive me for "chiming in" but those voltages don't look right to me, specifically Q1,2,3,5,7,9,10,11,12,13,14 all have their base at a lower voltage than their emitters (which isn't right) might check your orientation, maybe you have them in backwards?, or they could be bad, or solder bridges, etc, etc, etc.

Did all that twice. And 4, 6, 8, and 14 have base higher than the emitter

At first glance, you have an open ground to the PCB.

Quote from: aryk on May 01, 2013, 10:06:56 AM
Did all that twice. And 4, 6, 8, and 14 have base higher than the emitter

...

(edit) never mind, I see RG's here now so you're in good hands (if you listen to him) ...Peace-out

I'll upload some shots of the board here in a few. How would I go about fixing the ground?

You'd get out your voltmeter, put the negative lead on the power supply end of it and then measure places that are supposed to be connected to the power supply negative by copper and solder. If these show any voltage other than 0, there is an open link between them and the power supply negative.

I didn't get zero at the ground   :'(. I got about 8.60 on ground. Here are some pics:
(http://instagram.com/p/YxqNiix0_u/)
(http://instagram.com/p/YxqEvbx0_n/)

That's what I thought might happen. You have two places (power supply negative, and "ground" on the circuit) that are supposed to be connected by a wire and solder, and are not.

So use that same setup, with your voltmeter negative lead clipped to the power supply (-) and use the (+) lead to follow the power supply (-) wire through all its connections till it gets to the PCB. At some point, it will stop reading 0.0V and start reading 8.6V. That means you just passed the break.

It happens right after R42. I got 0 from the "C" (power negative) wire then still 0 at the north side of R42 then hit 8.5 on the south side of it

Found an issue. The possitive and negative are supposed to go to pad's J and K not C and D. At least that's what the note's say. The wiring diagram is different than the baby board mod instructions for using the 9v power supply. Any ideas here?
p.s. were you able to see the pics uploaded? I'm using my ipad and can't tell.

Quote from: aryk on May 01, 2013, 01:44:27 PM
The wiring diagram is different than the baby board mod instructions for using the 9v power supply. Any ideas here?

Yep. There were a few quick versions of that. Let me know *exactly* which version you're using so I can be sure I refer to the right one. Also, I tend to mess up on things like this occasionally, so it could be that I just flat got it wrong.

Quotep.s. were you able to see the pics uploaded? I'm using my ipad and can't tell.

Nope, can't see them.

I'm using the updated version I believe with the baby board.  The latest one used on geofex just before the son of uvics. Wired it with a dual pot and the off board baby board. I'll try and get a working pic on here. Thanks so much for your help by the way :)

Pic: (http://oi44.tinypic.com/2zzswhx.jpg)

edit: sorry forgot how to resize the images on here.

Very nice, tidy build.

Do you have a pic of the daughter board? Top and bottom?

I'm trying to see if you did UVICS3 or 4. The difference is in the daughter board, mostly. Once I see exactly what you have, I can probably point you to the issue.

Right now, my suspicion, with no facts in front of me, is that the daughter/baby board is not functioning correctly and putting out 17Vdc as it should.  If you can help me verify the version, I can pick out what's wrong pretty quickly.

... I think...  :icon_biggrin:

The process will probably be divide and conquer. Separate the small board from the main board, verify that it makes twice the incoming 9V correctly and fix it if it doesn't, then hook up the main board and see that it works right with the right voltage.

You're welcome to any support I can give.

Yep, there is a bug on the wiring diagram on J/K versus C/D. I'll get ramped up to fix that on line as soon as we get the power issue fixed. Thanks for the catch.

I believe it is version 3. Didn't see a version 4? Or was that the SON OF UVICS?

Power supply and bottom pics: (http://oi44.tinypic.com/2i0ocl.jpg)
(http://oi43.tinypic.com/1sz7yq.jpg)

I know there was a tut on how to resize these somewhere... Again sorry for taking up all this space

Should I change my wiring according to the J and K set up? Or was that supposed to be labeled as D and C?

OK, from the pics, you're using a GGG board to make 17V from 9.

(1) does that work separate from the UVICS board?


If so, yes, you should move the +17V wire to pad J, the negative side of the 17V supply to pad K, and the two free ends of the pot(s) to pads C and D. The center of the two speed pots goes to pad E.

Aha! We have power and ground now closed! Lamp is pulsing as well. Still no effect... but it's a step closer!  ;D K now what? lol

There won't be any effect until the light shield goes over the LDRs. If there is no effect after that, let's do "what to do when it doesn't work".

Light shield in place and no change. :(

Quote from: aryk on May 02, 2013, 11:15:58 AM
Light shield in place and no change. :(

Time to start with "what to do when it doesn't work".

Any reference points to see where I can trace the audio signal? Or maybe places where I should have audio?

You should hear about unity gain audio on the collector and emitter of Q3, 5, 7, 9, and 10.

I have unity at all those places. Would i be able to hear any effect signal anywhere? I know i shouldnt hear it til after the 4th stage of mixing.

Pads L and M. If it appears there, it's a wiring issue off board.

If it does not, check both ends of R37 and R38, and all three pins of trimmer TR3.

No effect at pads L and M other than a slight vibrato on M. Same thing for the TR3. R38 and 37 are just unity gain.

Quote from: aryk on May 05, 2013, 11:48:33 AM
No effect at pads L and M other than a slight vibrato on M. Same thing for the TR3. R38 and 37 are just unity gain.

But unity audio level at all points?

Correct. Sorry I'm bad with detail, I always assume people know what I'm talking about lol.

If that's the case, then it could be:
1. LDRs are not  varying enough in resistance.
2. One or more LDRs (and resistors, etc.) are open in the phase line.
3. The trimmer is way off or open to one side
4. The off-board wiring is not set up right.

Just guessing. You're getting perilously close to needing a scope.

The LFO is running, the phase line passes audio. The vast majority of univibes work when that's done.

I followed the wiring according to the version 3 layout. Checked the trim pots to set all at middle position and am not sure about the LDRs they were from small bear and I can't remember the specs on them. I think they were specialized for these type of circuits though.

There aren't many things that could be wrong from here.

If I understand you correctly, you're getting audio through the phase line and through the dry path. That's getting mixed in the mixer and getting to the output jack. If that's so, the only thing left is that the phase line isn't shifting, or that the mix is not happening correctly.

Really, it's oscilloscope time. Do you have a scope?

[better - pm me.]

Hi everyone, I am preparing part order for the son of UVICS and cannot find what is U3 in the pdf.  ???
Brane

Congratulations, you've found a secret area.   :icon_biggrin:

U3 is an optional third method of making an LED blink. It's an LED to phototransistor optoisolator.

Is this something you plan to do?

Is there any reward  :P  :D
Thanks for fast responce, I attend to build it next month so this was only area that I couldn't understand.
Is there any specific opto or?
Brane

Quote from: Brejna on January 08, 2014, 02:43:24 PM
Is there any reward  :P  :D
Thanks for fast responce, I attend to build it next month so this was only area that I couldn't understand.
Is there any specific opto or?

Reward? It depends.  :)  First you have to want to have an blinking LED. Then you have to pick that one of the three different ways to do it.

There is an opto I was planning to use, but there are many, many optos with the same pinout. They differ primarily in their speed - which does not matter in this case at all - and in their current transfer ratio (CTR). The CTR is the ratio of current in the phototransistor to current in the LED. For this application, you want it to always be greater than 100% - that is, the current through the LED being driven makes more than amount of current flow in the photo transistor. I'd be tempted to use a photodarlington with big CTR; but then the LED would merely blink on and off, no fading.

Quote from: R.G. on January 08, 2014, 03:59:27 PM

Quote from: Brejna on January 08, 2014, 02:43:24 PM
Is there any reward  :P  :D
Thanks for fast responce, I attend to build it next month so this was only area that I couldn't understand.
Is there any specific opto or?

Reward? It depends.  :)  First you have to want to have an blinking LED. Then you have to pick that one of the three different ways to do it.

There is an opto I was planning to use, but there are many, many optos with the same pinout. They differ primarily in their speed - which does not matter in this case at all - and in their current transfer ratio (CTR). The CTR is the ratio of current in the phototransistor to current in the LED. For this application, you want it to always be greater than 100% - that is, the current through the LED being driven makes more than amount of current flow in the photo transistor. I'd be tempted to use a photodarlington with big CTR; but then the LED would merely blink on and off, no fading.

I attend to make it with the led blinkin option, and if you guide with optotransistor I am willing to try all 3 option :)

I have 2 more quetions:
- can i use 2n5088 for q16?
- do i need to ground R12?
Brane

Sorry - it's been busy here.

I would pick an optoisolator like one of these:
Vishay  VO617A-3
CEL PS2501
Everlight EL817
selecting the options for the highest current transfer ratio you can reasonably get.

You can *try* a 2N5088 for Q16. It may be fine. I specified a darlington to minimize the load on the driving side.

I'm a bit confused about the question on R12. One side of R12 is grounded on the PCB traces.

Thanks for The input  :)
I have notice that trace that goes from R12 is left opened on The son of uvics board. From the schematic it should be grounded or?

Can you point to the link you used to see that detail?

I checked my original design files and didn't find an open.

I have download pdf from www.geofex.com

OK, I found the problem. Apparently there was a bug in printing the PDF for the toner transfer. It's missing the highlighted trace. Solder a wire on there.

(http://i.imgur.com/gkaukIa.jpg)

Thanks, and sorry for bothering this much  :D

Rookie mistake.

I know, I know. I'm a perpetual beginner.    :)

...and last one that i forgot to ask is value of R53,54 and 55?  ;D

You know the prototype I built still works and sounds great  :icon_wink:
thanks for that RG,it brought me a lot of great fun playing Pink Floyd with it of course "Bridge of Sighs" is mandatory with this pedal :D
I think I might have to build it with the newest version and compare,wish there was a cheap way to get usable wah shells... :icon_evil:

What is the best way to check vactrol? Audio part of pedal works, but LFO doesn't. it was working normally and then stopped. I've changed all LFO transistors and still nothing.. So is it vactrol?

Quote from: Brejna on June 01, 2014, 03:59:55 PM
What is the best way to check vactrol? Audio part of pedal works, but LFO doesn't. it was working normally and then stopped. I've changed all LFO transistors and still nothing.. So is it vactrol?

Swapping transistors is not a very good debugging technique.

The best way to check the vactrol is to hook up your ohmmeter across the resistor side and a 9V battery and variable resistance across the LED side and vary the current through the LED. If the ohmmeter reading changes, the vactrol is good. If it doesn't you have to first reassure yourself that you're actually varying the current through the LED, then decide if the Vactrol is dead or your test procedure is flawed.

If you use a pot for a variable resistor in the LED - test, be sure to put an approximately 1K fixed resistor in series with the pot and LED so you can't accidentally turn the pot to zero resistance and thereby cook the LED to death.

If this is not immediately satisfying, falling back on the techniques in "what to do when it doesn't work" would be very helpful.

Quote from: R.G. on June 01, 2014, 06:36:26 PM

Quote from: Brejna on June 01, 2014, 03:59:55 PM
What is the best way to check vactrol? Audio part of pedal works, but LFO doesn't. it was working normally and then stopped. I've changed all LFO transistors and still nothing.. So is it vactrol?

Swapping transistors is not a very good debugging technique.

The best way to check the vactrol is to hook up your ohmmeter across the resistor side and a 9V battery and variable resistance across the LED side and vary the current through the LED. If the ohmmeter reading changes, the vactrol is good. If it doesn't you have to first reassure yourself that you're actually varying the current through the LED, then decide if the Vactrol is dead or your test procedure is flawed.

If you use a pot for a variable resistor in the LED - test, be sure to put an approximately 1K fixed resistor in series with the pot and LED so you can't accidentally turn the pot to zero resistance and thereby cook the LED to death.

If this is not immediately satisfying, falling back on the techniques in "what to do when it doesn't work" would be very helpful.

Thanks, I've checked it and it works. In dark it goes to 20M+ and in the light 200-300R

If by "in dark" and "in light" you mean "the LED full off" and "the LED full on at some current" then it's fine.

If you mean actually in light and dark, you don't have a vactrol, which is an integrated light-tight package.

The LFO in the univibe will stop if the resistance of the speed pot is too high. The original prototype of this speed control I made had problems with stopping if I ran the LED current to fully off.

Quote from: R.G. on June 02, 2014, 12:52:59 PM
If by "in dark" and "in light" you mean "the LED full off" and "the LED full on at some current" then it's fine.

If you mean actually in light and dark, you don't have a vactrol, which is an integrated light-tight package.

The LFO in the univibe will stop if the resistance of the speed pot is too high. The original prototype of this speed control I made had problems with stopping if I ran the LED current to fully off.

Yeah you are right, I meant LED full on/off. When I first build uvics (when it was working) only issue was with blocking LFO like you said, but I put 4k7 resistor in positions of R52 and it was fine.
Since I've ruined few solder pads with disoldering I will make another board and start again with this.

I have etched new pcb and solder it and it works, I tried LED method 2 with transistor, for R55 I have put 22R and for R54 47K. When I engage it, LFO stops and when I disengage it works.. Is it value of resistors that I am using or something else?

Quote from: Brejna on June 30, 2014, 01:03:44 PM
I have etched new pcb and solder it and it works, I tried LED method 2 with transistor, for R55 I have put 22R and for R54 47K. When I engage it, LFO stops and when I disengage it works.. Is it value of resistors that I am using or something else?

Let me be sure I understand. The LFO works when the pedal is NOT engaged, presumably by the flashing light being visible, but the light stops flashing when the pedal IS engaged? Is that right?

Sorry for this it was my bad, I had shorted trace. :-[
It works, only thing that could be improved is LED tracking..
EDIT: Slower settings of LED do not work at all, then when I raise speed LED glows again. I have lower R54 to 24K and there is not to much improvment.. BTW is there a way to separate LED from Intensity?

After more than 6 months of dawdling, it is finished.  :) here are few photos...
Thanks R.G. for helping me
Cheers
Brane
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u661/Brejna/IMG_20140709_111547_zpsed12e649.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/Brejna/media/IMG_20140709_111547_zpsed12e649.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u661/Brejna/IMG_20140709_111556_zps46842748.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/Brejna/media/IMG_20140709_111556_zps46842748.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u661/Brejna/IMG_20140709_111640_zps4af1a4f9.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/Brejna/media/IMG_20140709_111640_zps4af1a4f9.jpg.html)

Hello and let me start with thanking RG for his time and effort he's put into this project. I know this thread has been plauged by passive aggressivness and second guessing etc. and I hope I don't come across as a turd in the punch bowl with all these questions.

I have undertaken the Son of UVICS projects a couple of days ago (been eyeing it for a while but just etched the board!). So far this is a really fun project because of the challenges with the crybaby shell etc. I'm having a blast building and researching this thing!

I'm planning on building the Son of UVICS with the wah pot mod, cap switching, blinking led, and power it with 9VDC (so the charge pump is also added, rectifier left out). This thread has been a good read and sorted some of my questions but some still remain. Most are about the schematic and layout etc. (most of them are perhaps clarifications about the building doc for the son of UVICS.)

• For the blinking LED mod you can either use R2, R53 and U3 but leave off R54, R55, Q16 or vice versa (I'm assuming the build doc has a typo). Not of all these values are mentioned in the BOM or in the schematic. From reading this thread it seems to me that a R54 is 100K, R55 is 2.2K (determines the LED brightness) and that Q16 should be a darlington, MPSA13. Correct? I noticed what type of optoisolator to use if using the other method had been discussed so I'll leave that.
• On the schematic it states Q15 as a NPN darlington but on the BOM it says 2N5088. Does it matter?
• Some caps that are on the baby boards for the UVICS are not present on the Son of UVICS board, C39,40,41. These seem to go to ground on the baby boards. Does the son of UVICS need them? I'm planning on just leaving them off.
• For C28 and 29 it's recommended to use 10uF tantalum caps. The ones I have are only rated for 16V, are tantalum caps critical for noise or will electros do fine?
• Any recommendations for cap values to use for the cap switching mod? I'm more used to changing a single cap in chorus or changing input cap on a fuzz. Four different values seems a lot and I'm not sure what resistance to use to calcute cut off frequencies for the values listed. I planning on socketing them all and trying some different combos but som help to get started would be appreciated.
  

Oh, and one last thing the VLTC3/2 is the same thing as a  VLT5C3/2 right? Never used optocouplers before.

Hi, I can share mine experience about Son of UVICS..
1.Blinking LED I never sorted right way so I implement another option which is independent of intensity knob.
2.For Q15 I've tried MPSA13, 2n3904 and 2n5088 and they all worked fine
3.I' ve used this combinations of caps: C5   C9    C12    C15
                                          -univibe 15n 220n 470pF 4n7
                             -RM voodoo vibe 15n 100n  47n    4n7
                                   -Resley tone 4n7  3n3   2n2    1n
4.I did put C28 and C29 tantalum, but probably it want make big difference if you use elect.
5.If you want LFO to work you must put jumper in position of R2 if you don't intend to use LED blinking method 2.
6.Yes, I also used VTL5C3/2
7.I reccomend to put 10k trimmer instead of R52 for easier adjustment of the speed
Cheers

Edit: Strongly suggest to socket Q12 and Q13..

Thanks a lot! I'm going to socket all the transistors and parts of the LFO as well. I want to try this:

Quote
How do I increase the max speed?
If you're OK with increasing the min speed too, cut the 1uF caps in the LFO by half; that will increase both min and max. Changing Q11/Q12 to an integrated darlington or changing Q11 to a J201 and changing R40 to a higher value will give you a lower minimum speed before the LFO quits because of loading on the capacitor chain, so changing Q11/Q12/R40 and cutting the value of the capacitor chain will give you a higher max speed with the same min speed.

I was going to socket R52 but I'm going add a trimmer instead! Great suggestion! I'm ordering parts for this anyway so I'm going for tantalum caps.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/txomins/DSCN2051.jpg)
another one, after 2 years of having made the pcb and populated, at last I've wiring, sounds fantastic, no changes to the original of R. G. only mpsw45  for BC517, thanks R.G. for your wonderful work.

And yes they have charge pump.

If something is wrong is the fault of the google translator

You're welcome. Glad I could help! It's really nice to see that these get used and enjoyed.