hi guys, i remember my zombie chorus ..and i loved it, and lost it :icon_cry:....a great chorus!....however
i can't find a schematic with the anti tick mod included, or a 1590b layout with it added.....unless someone knows better?.. ;)
anyway i'll give doing a 1590b layout a go, if nobody else has, i'm in need of a 'lush' chorus for myself at the mo ...
heres the well known schematic.....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/zombie.jpg
and the de- tick mod!..
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/DETICK%7E1zombie.jpg
according to the de-tick mod where do those 2x10k's go on the schematic?...and the lfo cut?......i'd like to get that sorted before i attempt a layout!....thanks guys!.. ;)
i presume this will be ok with 2xtlo72's....(as i read that its not a good idea to use a quad)
edit: and heres RG's layout for reference too.. ;)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/zombie.pdf
Try this Mr.Deadastronaut
(http://s13.postimage.org/vlgbvaa1j/Zombie_Chorus.gif) (http://postimage.org/)
upload images (http://postimage.org/)
But move the two resistors from pin 10,11 of CD4046 to pin 11 and 12 respectively as per schematic.
ahhhh good man, you saved me a lot of grief with that!!!..cheers, i'll copy that into diylc and move those resistors.....your a star!...thanks. :icon_cool:
ill post it up later ok, (to make sure i got it right!.. ;)
btw have you built that version?....any ticking?.....
Yes i built it and very low ticking almost inaudible but on clone mode i could here little ticking.If used together with pedals using max1044 very loud ticking.
so this doesn't have the detick mod then?....
if so how could i incorporate that into it?...
cheers man!.
Look at the orange and brown traces that's the two separate V+/2(vref) traces.In my understanding that's the detick mod.
ok, cheers, but i still don't quite understand that mod...on the detick fix mod link it has 2x10k's ...1 going to 9v (i presume), and 1 to ground with the vref/2 going to pin 7? from the middle of them both....is that right?.
sorry man, i'm being a dumbass....again!...i'm having a hard time comparing 3 different layout/schem/pcb!..::)
anyway, done the layout and moved those resistors...look ok?..
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/zombie1.jpg)
I can't see any of these layouts from work, so I'll simply say that you should avoid using a quad op-amp for the circuit if the layout incorporates one. For deticking, you will want to isolate the dual op-amp used for the LFO from the one used for the audio path. The ticking occurs because the one is influencing the other. If you incorporate them into a quad, that isolation becoms impossible to achieve.
cheers mark, its on 2x tl072's...no quads.
That's lightning fast deadastronaut.Looks fine and about the detick mod the LFO vref is 2x10k while the audio vref is 10k/15k.I built this with dual LFO to make a dual chorus and the result was okay.I can switch between two different settings of rate and depth.
:D yeah i don't hang about....
okey dokey...so like mark said, are the lfo/audio 'isolated' now then?....but still have some ticking?....hmmm...
btw i was thinking about a mix pot on this too..i remember my old zombie and wanted one on that for a nice blend choice!.(think alex lifeson) ;)...
hmmmm on the detick fix it has a cut on pin5?.to seperate / isolate ..correct!? (i remember doing that on my old zombie) (which didn't have any ticking)
erm...so should i put a cut in the new layout at all....erm......i'm lost!.. :-\
Haven't I read somewhere about using TL062 instead of TL072 for LFOs, to reduce ticking.
Listened to a few soundclips from this, beginning to get interested :) (i.e. curly layout coming soon :icon_mrgreen: )
@pelle; you may be right on that!...i also read about 358's......
not sure though....(it is a great chorus try it.) :)
ordered up a few mn3007/cd4046's.....i'll still breadboard this to see if there is any ticking first though!...
as i may stick this in a multi fx....if it doesn't tick....i don't fancy building a clock.. ;D
@fretz:/mark: / so is that isolating 'cut' in fretz's layout?....
ahhh the penny has dropped...gotcha!.. ::)
so that layout is with the seperate vb's... ;)
still don't get the cut part though!...(to stop ticking/isolation)
isn't there a schematic around with these mods? it would be handy for dumbasses like me who find it a nightmare trying to decipher layouts/pcb/vero/perf/ :)
EDIT: this guy added vibrato to it too...not sure if he cured the ticking on his rev:B..
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pisotones.com%2FZombie%2FMBC%2FZ2%2FZCh2.htm&act=url
edit 2:
just had a listen/look at the tonepad small clone chorus, sounds nice and no problems on the build reports as far as i can tell....i think i may just go with that instead
i just don't fancy the idea of any ticking at all.....i'm a fussy bugger!.. ;)..especially as it may go into a multi fx i may build!..
it asks for a cd4047...could i use a 4046?...(that i ordered ::))...if not no probs!.. ;)
thanks for your help anyway guys!..appreciate it. :icon_cool:
The cut was to make separate VBs, and your layout has that. VB resistors circled.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Random/ZombieSupply.png)
Curlyness coming up.
ahhh gotcha, cheers pelle...
ive read that people still have some issues with noise on it though....so not sure if i'll go with this yet!..
not sure if breading it would be a good idea, as it seems fussy about layout with the cd4046....
the tonepad small clone seems ok...noiseless!.. :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 08, 2012, 08:45:54 AM
the tonepad small clone seems ok...noiseless!.. :)
Uses CD4047 ;D
yeah i know... @#$%ing typical ;D
the @#$%er..i ordered 4046...now to order 4047'... ::)
some cool mds out there for it too...on the vids ive heard sounds nice!!!!..
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 08, 2012, 09:04:42 AM
yeah i know... @#$%ing typical ;D
the @#$%er..i ordered 4046...now to order 4047'... ::)
some cool mds out there for it too...on the vids ive heard sounds nice!!!!..
I built one a while ago. Did the stereo out mod, cap switch mod, and the depth pot mod. All in all, it is one of the more "lush" chorus' you can find. Definitely recommend it if you want something that can go from subtle to WOW :o
thats it, i'm convinced...tonepad it is... :icon_cool:
just ordered 4047..cheers GL. ;)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 08, 2012, 09:36:46 AM
thats it, i'm convinced...tonepad it is... :icon_cool:
just ordered 4047..cheers GL. ;)
Haven't decided on which to build (ordered both 4046s and 4047s so might build both) but curlieness we should have and curliness we have :icon_mrgreen:
Small Clone, not sure if it's better than tonepads layout, but it is indeed curlier.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/SmallClone.png)
Zombie Chorus, slightly bigger than the previously posted and thus flattened most of the resistors (just two pesky ones on the left hand side that'll be slightly squeezed). Curly? Check!
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/ZombieChorus.png)
Both pretty unverified, so look them over before using (both follow their "originals" well enough layout wise to be quite easy to check).
curly coolness...i'm defo going the tonepad route!.. ;)
i have a clock on my wall already... :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 10, 2012, 06:24:00 PM
curly coolness...i'm defo going the tonepad route!.. ;)
Remembered (what I didn't half past midnight) that I actually (in my opinion) improved the tonepad layout by adjusting most capacitor pin spacings to suit box style caps. There's just one right under the MN3007 that's still three grid spaces apart.
Have you found an explanation of the trimmer? I know it's used as a voltage divider, but how to set it? Nevermind, found it: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=85666.5
i'll have to find some 123k's.. ;D. ;)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 11, 2012, 05:49:11 AM
i'll have to find some 123k's.. ;D. ;)
Doh, looked at it long and found two I'd missed. I'll fix, those too.
i know i know, its those late nights... ;)
Late nights, yeah, small kids, full time work, girlfriend and a hobby, no wonder I never get time to learn to play the guitar :icon_cry:
Gave the BOM a look through this time, couldn't find anything odd (doesn't mean there isn't any ;) ).
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/SmallClone-1.png)
hmmmm just printed out the tonepad pcb....it'll go in a 1590b but with an uncomfortable squeeze!...hmmmm...very tight once dc/jacks are in...
shame the pcb size wasn't a bit smaller , length wise.....hmmmm....
the zombie is a cool size...perfect in fact!...hmmmm.....mother @#$%ing ticks..
this was my original zombie, no noticable ticking...rg's layout, and marks tick fix..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvZKri-5QA&feature=plcp
@mark: how 'isolated' does the 4046 have to be in the zombie?..is fretburners layout isolated enough in your opinion? cheers rob.
::)
I've bought parts for both ;D
Sadly by the time I got to the checkout Tayda had only one 1590B left (wanted to order three this time).Well, well, they say they'll get more by the end of the month. Bought 10 pc 3007 off ebay for 8 USD, shipping included, I count on people close to me wanting choruses after they'd tried mine :)
And, no d'Astro, I won't spend the hours needed to squeeze down the Tonepad layout a bit lenghtwise (at least not until my parts arrived and I start to wonder how the h*ll I'll get it to fit).
oh come on....get ya squiggly skills on it!!.... ;D ;)
yeah i got 10 of each in case! ::)...2 of my mates want 1 each already...the @#$%ers...fitting is gonna be tight :icon_mrgreen:
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/product_info.php/cPath/50_22_24_299/products_id/1218?osCsid=7f26556dba8c88e5e2c1b7e644fba954
hmmm good idea!... :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 15, 2012, 06:52:42 AM
hmmm good idea!... :)
I've got five mono, five stereo :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 15, 2012, 06:34:12 AM
oh come on....get ya squiggly skills on it!!.... ;D ;)
OK.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/SmallClone-Squeeze.png)
I give you two rows, anything more you'll have to fix yourself :icon_twisted:
ps. This is even more unverified than the previous layouts.
brilliant...2 rows is a lot when you have none spare!!!....nice one pelle, i owe you a beer!.. ;) :icon_cool:
i'll check it over later ok... :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 15, 2012, 05:09:25 PM
brilliant...2 rows is a lot when you have none spare!!!....nice one pelle, i owe you a beer!.. ;) :icon_cool:
i'll check it over later ok... :)
I got bored on my commute home.
I'll take that beer next time I'm in London. You're quite correct, two rows can be a lot when space is tight (a certain 1590A build comes to mind :) ).
You've got treated to a bunch of (semi) standing resistors and a squeezed el-cap or two, but then again you get nothing for free (I just got the dual meaning of that statement, never thought about it before), this time less ended up costing you too.
okey dokey...got my 4046's...still waiting on other stuff!.. ::)
i'll double check your pcb later with original ok...4 eyes better than 2 etc...
got to go do sh*t today...fixing pc for a dumbass.. ::) ;D
catch ya later.. ;)
edit , just wanted this link as a reference.. ;)
http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=97
had a brief look over it looks ok to my eyes......whats the deal with the pads under the trim?...
btw this'll be ok with 072's right?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/smallcloneclone.jpg)
I think that's for different types of trimmers.
ahhh i see... :icon_cool:
edit: shouldn't that trim middle row be joined then?
Yeah, different pinouts for trimmers. TL072 should be OK, as I understand it :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 18, 2012, 06:40:59 AM
ahhh i see... :icon_cool:
edit: shouldn't that trim middle row be joined then?
Nice catch. Will fix as soon as I have the tine to do it. Guess you're proficient enough with some graphics program to fix it yourself if you can't wait.
nope!..i'll wait till you post the pdf's...then i'll crack on and etch a couple ready for when my bits arrive!!!...
all the rest looks ok to me!...any eagle eyed members see anything else?... :icon_eek:
Here ya go.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/SmallClone-Squeeze-1.png)
Layout PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20165528/Small%20Clone%20-%20Squeeze.pdf
Transfer PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20165528/Small%20Clone%20-%20Squeeze%20-%20Transfer.pdf
And finally, for any and all to dissect...
DIYLC File: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20165528/Small%20Clone%20-%20Tonepad%20-%20Squeeze.diy
nice one pelle: ;)
at what % do you print these...when i export traces/layout pdf's, its always set at 100%..ready to print?
The png's print correctly if I set the dpi to 300. The pdf's I thought were automatically correct. If not I'd count that as a bug in diylc.
I'm on my phone now (parental leave Mondays ;D, on our way to IKEA for lunch) so I can neither check nor correct :(
I'll look into it when I come home.
no worries i do a test print anyway ok... ;)
edit: looks fine!size wise..
erm, just noticed the 180p no pad...i tried downloading the diylc file..just got text!.. :'(
I think you'll have to right click and "save as" and you should be safe.
I've uploaded a corrected version of the transfer to dropbox (same name, use link above).
The problem was a trace that ended before the pad, not the actual pad missing.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/SmallClone-Squeeze-2.png)
cool, cheers pelle, i'll try n get a couple etched today... :icon_cool:
I etched before you debugged it, but I could bend the leg of that cap. Got the resistors, sockets and ceramic caps soldered in :) Still waiting for the 3007s though :(
cool, yeah i'm waiting on those too..... ::)
thought i'd get my pcb's done n ready...really looking forward to a 'lush' chorus, can't wait!!.. :icon_eek:
been busy!!!...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P230512_16.39.jpg)
Looking good, what's the last one?
thats a dodgy diy sustainer i'm going to experiment with while waiting for my chorus bits.... :)
still waiting on those ic's...hmmmmm... ::)
my patience is being truly tested!... :icon_evil:
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 28, 2012, 03:54:20 AM
still waiting on those ic's...hmmmmm... ::)
my patience is being truly tested!... :icon_evil:
Yeah, it's not that I don't like the rest of the board, it's just a little boring without that chip ;D
I've been opening the mailbox in anticipation each day for a week now :(
guess who's bits turned up at last!!!...whooohoooo.... :icon_biggrin:
got to fit a humbucker to my crapocaster today, chiseling out body n stuff!...pita but will be much better when done!..... :icon_twisted:
can't wait to start on the chorus though!....whhhhoooooohoooooo.... :icon_cool:
Gotta praise the Royal Mail there, our mailman wont show up for another two hours or so.
No luck for me today, though the beads for my next necklace arrived, so I'll have something to do.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Random/Beads.jpg)
ha ha i had that on mine too....beads?. ::) :icon_mrgreen:
this'll be ok with 2n3904's and a 3906 wouldnt it?...i'll socket those anyway though!...just in case!. :)
oh hold on, i think i have 5088's...
gonna have to sub a few bits in this, haven't any 39k's..just 33k's, ::)
no 3.3n's or 15n's... or 2.7n... :(
got 2.2/4.7 10/22 2.2 ::)...i'm sure it'll be ok, just tonally different i guess... ;)
i'll keep track of what i sub... ;)
3904 & 3906 work fine in the Small Clone.
With those vales, you'll change the frequencies of the filters, so you could end up with a darker pedal or one that lets clock noise through, probably be fine though.
Those 3007s... you tested them in a working pedal? All the same date code :-\
cheers scruffie:
nope not tested at all...not even started... :D
edit: just read the mn3007's
says: mn3007 9N ...all of them.. ???
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 28, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
cheers scruffie:
nope not tested at all...not even started... :D
edit: just read the mn3007's
says: mn3007 9N ...all of them.. ???
That's what I found questionable... they could all be from the same batch of course, or they could also be from the same faking stamp...
hmmmmmmm.....oh @#$%!.. :'(
yeah same as pelle's..
oh well soon find out.. :-\
... or we'll file a group action :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 28, 2012, 12:01:30 PM
this'll be ok with 2n3904's and a 3906 wouldnt it?...i'll socket those anyway though!...just in case!. :)
oh hold on, i think i have 5088's...
gonna have to sub a few bits in this, haven't any 39k's..just 33k's, ::)
no 3.3n's or 15n's... or 2.7n... :(
got 2.2/4.7 10/22 2.2 ::)...i'm sure it'll be ok, just tonally different i guess... ;)
i'll keep track of what i sub... ;)
I'm just short of the 33nf. Everything else is on the board already ;D
My Zombie is good to go as soon as I've wired up pots and jacks.
Wired up the Zombie, sound but no chorus :'(
Quote from: Perrow on May 28, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
Wired up the Zombie, sound but no chorus :'(
Voltages?
Any special IC? I can see that the lfo works and I get sound through the circuit, so here goes 4046:
1: 0
2: 8.98
3: 0
4:4.5
5:0
6:0.97
7:0.95
8:0
9: fluctuates around 4.4
10 and 11: fluctuates around 3.3
12:6.91
13:0
14:9
15:0
16:9
3007:
1:9
2:9
3:5.4
4-6:0
7:6.5
8:6.5
2 & 6 of the 3007 should have approximatley half voltage, what are there voltages without the 3007 in there?
The same (pin 7 & 8 are 8.6 though).
Pin 2 drops to 0 after a while but goes back to close to 9 if I poke around a bit on the other pins.
:'(
i was just about to make a start on mine!.. :icon_eek:
got your jumpers on there?..
Just one jumper,but yes.
Found that my layout shows pin 3 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007. The schematic has pins 3 & 4 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007.
I'll correct that and report back.
Sadly this is a day of planned activities as well as work. After work I have three meetings/activities to attend before I can get some DIY time.
2 jumpers. top left+ bottom of 4047...
pin3 of 4047 is connected to D2...you mean pin 4 of the 4047?, which is connected to 4,5,6 at the mo..
busy day , i won't harrass you then.. :D
I'll take a look art the schemo.. ;)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 29, 2012, 02:54:10 AM
2 jumpers. top left+ bottom of 4047...
I'm on the Zombie ;)
ahhh i see.... ;)
i wondered why you said 4046... ;D
i'll crack on with the smally then... ;)
Just looked and the 33nf cap I'm missing to complete my Small Clone is the input cap, guess I'll be ok with a 47nf there ::)
I'll try that too tonight. Or more likely tomorrow night, will have to clear out everything on our balcony tonight (after the meetup with my sons new preschool class, a picnic with daycare, and an information meeting about renovations to our housing cooperative, did I mention I'm at work?) so the contractor that'll change the windows can dump the new ones there tomorrow morning.
busy busy busy bee.... have fun!.. ;)
yeah i 'll have to sub a few bits...might be interesting, bright/dark..
some chorus pedals are to bright imo, so it may be for the better... :icon_cool:
i'll probably end up with a trim on the out too to get proper unity..i do that to most pedals
Quote from: Perrow on May 29, 2012, 01:10:56 AM
Found that my layout shows pin 3 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007. The schematic has pins 3 & 4 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007.
No dice.
Quote from: Perrow on May 29, 2012, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: Perrow on May 29, 2012, 01:10:56 AM
Found that my layout shows pin 3 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007. The schematic has pins 3 & 4 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007.
No dice.
Any change in voltages? 3007 in or out?
Quote from: Scruffie on May 29, 2012, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: Perrow on May 29, 2012, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: Perrow on May 29, 2012, 01:10:56 AM
Found that my layout shows pin 3 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007. The schematic has pins 3 & 4 of the 4046 connected to pin 6 of the 3007.
No dice.
Any change in voltages? 3007 in or out?
I'll get to them tonight, on my way to work now (I stole the time to solder those two legs together and test and right when I was done my girl came knocking on the door: "can you come in now, we've got things to do").
come on, come on... ;D
starting populating the smalley today,...wish me luck!.. ::)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 04:33:57 AM
come on, come on... ;D
starting populating the smalley today,...wish me luck!.. ::)
Good luck on that, I've got mine populated sans a cap and the off board wiring, hopefully get some time tonight to see how that works.
? what are those 2 empty pads in the middle for? rate led?
I've wondered that myself ???
:icon_eek:
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 06:41:42 AM
:icon_eek:
They're there on the "original layout", I just copied. Monkey see, monkey do. They're just V+ (through that 47R that everything is powered through) and ground, I guess they're there for a led.
yep i saw that on the original too...yeah led probably..
anyway just finished populating...need to add wires then the dreaded test!...i have had to sub quite a few values, but we'll see...
hopefully it'll be ;D rather than :'(
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 08:27:56 AM
hopefully it'll be ;D rather than :'(
Hope even more that it won't be like...
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 06:41:42 AM
:icon_eek:
See how scared he is, hiding in the end of that long corridor (won't work if you're on Tapatalk).
arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh @#$%ing @#$% @#$%ing @#$%
got sound, no chorus, yet!...twiddled trim...here we go!..no fluctuation/lfo in voltages ::)
mn3007 voltages
1 2.79
2 1.65
3 2.77
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 1.65
7 3.39
8 3.39
cd4047
1 2.76
2 0.60
3 1.33
4 2.79
5 2.79
6 2.79
7 0.59
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 1.64
11 1.65
12 0.00
13 2.76
14 2.79
top 072
1 1.30
2 8.08
3 3.52
4 0.00
5 2.47
6 1.93
7 8.11
8 8.73
bottom 072
1 4.36
2 4.36
3 4.26
4 0.00
5 4.35
6 4.37
7 4.37
8 8.73
Those are quite wrong... your 4047 & 3007 are both really low voltage... wrong value somewhere?
Look around Q3 on the Tonepad schematic, that 10k the right value? 3904 orientated properly?
cheers scruffie..i'll double check em...
hmm... all ok round Q3
the only subs i did were 39k's changed to 33k's...
150pf changed to 100pf...
12k's to 10k's
120k to 100k
180k to 220k
heres my Q'S..
Q3 3904
C 8.72
B 3.42
E 2.37
Q2 3904
C 8.72
B 8.72
E 0.00
Q1 2N3906
C 0.00
B 6.51
E 2.18
layout:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97344.msg850174#msg850174
hmmm would a dodgy trim be the cause too?
Your voltages seem okay... apart from everything being low round the 4047/3007, it could be something pulling everything down... same with the 3007 removed?
Q3 should have near voltage on C,B & E.
ok i took out the mn3007,
measured the ic socket pins
1 2.42
2 1.49
3 2.41
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 1.45
7 4.28
8 4.28
q3 with 3007 removed
c 8.58
b 3.36
e 2.43
And with the 4047 removed?
4047 removed. 4047 pins
1 0.00
2 0.01
3 0.87
4 8.61
5 8.61
6 8.61
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 0.00
11 0.00
12 0.00
13 0.00
14 8.61
both the 4047 3007 removed 3007 pins
1 8.61
2 0.00
3 8.58
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 0.00
7 8.60
8 8.60
i put ic's back in, the trim isn't doing anything, should it?..at least a warble or something?....it may be a dodgy trim...maybe not!..hmmm
Seems to me your 4047 is the culprit, replace it.
okey dokey..i'll give it a whirl..cheers man!. ;)
Wait, what am I saying, check for shorts etc. on the 4047, might be fine.
i just changed the 4047, and 3007....no difference!..
ok i'll check the pins pcb side....fingers crossed!..
btw is the layout ok, i couldnt see anything different from the original (apart from the squeeze on size)
hang on...i'm going to have to give myself a kicking, i didn't solder one of the @#$%ing chips pins arhhhhhh what a dumb @#$% i am... ::) :icon_redface:
there should be a head slap animation just for me!.. ;D
soldering iron on now....back in a bit, after i slap myself and shout at the nervous looking cat....
edit: nope still the same... :'(
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 11:34:57 AM
hang on...i'm going to have to give myself a kicking, i didn't solder one of the @#$%ing chips pins arhhhhhh what a dumb @#$% i am... ::) :icon_redface:
there should be a head slap animation just for me!.. ;D
soldering iron on now....back in a bit, after i slap myself and shout at the nervous looking cat....
Haha, I did that when I built my A/DA a while back I remember, thankfully it was a quick 2 minute DMM probe and find, there was a lot of tiny holes to solder!
Right, let's see what happens with that soldered.
Layout I haven't checked over other than the power connections for the 4047, we'll assume it's okay for the moment.
done...nope still the same!..
the cat looks scared now!.. :icon_eek:
updated voltages, still no proper lfo/fluctuation
4047
1 3.69
2 0.13
3 2.99
4 3.92
5 3.92
6 3.92
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 1.90
11 1.92
12 0.00
13 3.70
14 3.91
3007
1 3.91
2 1.92
3 1.17
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 1.90
7 2.91
8 2.91
top 072
1 1.30
2 7.45
3 3.46
4 0.00
5 1.78/1.81..fluctuation
6 1.90
7 7.98
8 8.60
bottom 072
1 4.30
2 4.29
3 4.16
4 0.00
5 4.29
6 4.30
7 4.30
8 8.60
Voltage getting to the 4047 has gone up slightly... sure there's no shorts or anything? Still the case that removing the 3007 keeps the voltage the same?
We'll ignore the LFO for the moment, clock working is most imporant IMO.
But yeah the voltages on that LFO aren't right, i'm not sure if this LFO functions well with the TL072, might be a picky one... got a 1458?
Edit: Your 4047 & 3007 voltages look right to scale I think... just they shouldn't be down that low, is Q3 orientated correctly? i.e. you checked the datasheet vs schematic.
Something in this area is stopping them getting the right voltage, removing the 4047 brought it back up before... I briefly checked the layout and it seems okay around the LFO & Clock area...
swapped top 072 for a 358../ no 1458
check pcb traces, all looks ok.
took out 3007,
3007 socket
1 6.18
2 3.05
3 6.15
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 3.04
7 6.97
8 6.97
getting fluctuation on the 358 now..
1 1.49- 1.62
2 3.59
3 3.45
4 0.00
5 1.96
6 1.90
7 3.15-410
8 8.84
And what are the new 4047 & 358 voltages, things are looking better without the 3007 in there.
Right, saw your edit, 358 seems to be working now, 4047 & Q3 voltages without the 3007 in?
oops..4047 voltages with 4047 in..3007 out
1 5.11/5.13
2 0.10
3 4.21/4.25
4 5.34/5.35
5 5.34/5.35
6 5.34/5.35
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 2.63/2.64
11 2.65
12 0.00
13 5.11/5.13
14 5.33/5.34
Q3
C 8.84
B 6.40
E 5.33
Right... not much difference, the 3007 isn't causing the issue.
Looking back at your old transistor voltages, I notice actually they're all a bit off... Q1s Emitter is low, Q2s Base & Emitter should both be about half supply and Q3 is having its voltage dragged down... they definitley all orientated correctly? Schematic to layout to datasheet checked?
Going Down, Top 5088 should be E,B,C Middle should be C,B,E & Bottom C,B,E Left to Right... keep checking for shorts all round these areas.
yep defo orientaed correctly..according to layout/s
i used 2x 3904's and 1x 3906 for q1...
i'll check em out and post voltages with the 3007 still out...
Q3
C 8.84
B 6.92
E 6.45
Q2
C 8.84
B 8.84
E 0.00
Q1 3906
C 0.00
B 7.36
E 6.22
Q1 looks okay now, Q3 is still low (we assume pulled down by either the 4047 or something near by) and Q2 is still wrong, the emitter shouldn't be 0V.
Voltages of the MN3007, Q2 & 3 without the 4047... sorry this must be getting boring going back and forth.
no worries man, i'm really glad of the help.. ;)
3007 back in, 4047 out...
3007
1 8.75
2 0.00
3 8.62
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 0.00
7 7.95
8 7.96
q3
c 8.85
b 8.70
e 8.66
q2
c 8.85
b 8.47
e 0.00
ive gone round the pcb with a tiny screwdriver scraping between the traces, especially round the trannies, all looks ok, (comparing to a spare copy of the pcb...)
Q2 still has nothing on the emitter... something going on there but I can't see what...
And the 4047 is pulling the voltage down for some reason... there's gotta be something in this area wrong.
Pin 3 of the 3007 is very high, how's your trimmer set, keep it in the mid position... you should see about half supply here...
Tried resoldering the any suspect joints?
set the trim, now 5.5v...so iknow the trimmers ok now..
i'll whip the ic's out and try reflowing the solder and see how it goes....cheers man!..
btw,the cat looks petrified now!.. ;D
Found the problem with the Zombie, 220nf that should be a 220pf. Sweet chorus, the chips are good.
Slightest of ticks with the amp (not the best of amps) dimed, but a good deal of noise with unshielded cables and flourescent lighting, so some ticking might be masked.
@#$%, i run out of solder....could've sworn i had a few rolls...arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....i'll still try reflowing
@pelle: does it tell the time?.. ;)
I know this thread has been hijacked into a Small Clone debug thread, but I persist in posting about the Zombie Chorus and can finally present a verified layout for it.
(http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz249/Perrow_MLP/Builds/Layouts%20and%20transfers/ZombieChorusVerified.png)
@d'Astro: No, but I excpect it to explode any second now.
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 02:31:39 PM
set the trim, now 5.5v...so iknow the trimmers ok now..
i'll whip the ic's out and try reflowing the solder and see how it goes....cheers man!..
btw,the cat looks petrified now!.. ;D
Lol, what is it with your cat! :D
'ang on, just noticed the voltages did change with the 3007 removed, must be getting confused...
Anyway, yeah try some reflowing of everything and then we'll see how things are progressing.
Quote from: Perrow on May 30, 2012, 02:38:06 PM
Slightest of ticks with the amp (not the best of amps) dimed, but a good deal of noise with unshielded cables and flourescent lighting, so some ticking might be masked.
Which schematic did you build from? Might be able to cure it with a few mods.
@ pelle.cool, at least we know those chips are fine too!..
reflowed , nope!... :'(
re: my cat!... ha ha ha... ;D
Quote from: Scruffie on May 30, 2012, 03:05:50 PM
Which schematic did you build from? Might be able to cure it with a few mods.
The layout from the first reply to this thread.
(http://s13.postimage.org/vlgbvaa1j/Zombie_Chorus.gif)
But I stuck a TL062 in there for the LFO.
@ pelle: on your layout it says 470nf...its 470pf on the tonepad..!!!!...
which goes to base of Q1...swapping it now.. :-X
nope still not having it... :'(
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 30, 2012, 03:52:22 PM
@ pelle: on your layout it says 470nf...its 470pf on the tonepad..!!!!...
which goes to base of Q1...swapping it now.. :-X
nope still not having it... :'(
Just checked over the board comparing it to the tonepad pdf, and missed that one ::) For what it's worth I couldn't find any other issues, looks good to me. I've corrected my layout but I'll hold back on posting it until we get this one going. I'll probably get time to try mine this evening, just have to remember to swap that cap.
cool, i just have today/tonight to get it going, as i'm off camping/drinking this weekend... :P
ive double triple checked/compared, microscopically checked all traces/joints...might pull out the trannies and swap em....
I just compared the BOM from my project with the Tonepad BOM and couldn't find any errors.
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 31, 2012, 05:59:11 AM
cool, i just have today/tonight to get it going, as i'm off camping/drinking this weekend... :P
ive double triple checked/compared, microscopically checked all traces/joints...might pull out the trannies and swap em....
Is it "camping or drinking" or "camping and drinking" ;D
Might try that next time, instead of a tent just pack a bottle of Whisky and when night comes drink til you don't mind the lack of shelter. Might make the next days trail slightly shorter though ::)
ha ha drinking mainly, any excuse to get away from the queens jubilee lark.. :icon_mrgreen:...
So that's why th Englishmen at work has Monday and Tuesday off 8) they went home today and we'll see them again Thursday, Wednesday is a national holiday in Sweden.
About three more hours and then maybe I can get some time with my Small Clone.
hmmm just tried a 4558 in this...(as per recommendation/tonepad/) at the bottom, no sound at all...hmmmm...
358/072/ne5532 all had sound.......but not a sausage on the 4558 .a bit weird eh!.. ???
No sound at all from mine :(
@#$%... :icon_eek:
i just had the tonepad layout, and the new one side by side in photoshop, and i literally traced every part on both ..in pink.. :P
and i can't see any problem...the only bit that was screwing my head up was the 2x56k's...but you just squidged it up..so god knows why its being such a @#$%er
try a different opamp...in the bottom.
i have lfo out of the 358..i connected an led to pin 7 of the 358 (even though mods say pin1 ::)) it and it flashes and reactes to turning up the speed etc...so thats ok..
My lfo seems to work, but not the other opamp. And the 4047 gets only fractions of a volt on any pin. Wasn't in the mood for debugging today though :(
mad eh!...yeah no more debugging till sunday/monday for me now....
shame i was really looking forward to hearing this!...oh well i'll get pissed all weekend instead!,, :P
hi i'm new here , i know this is an old thread, any news on this?.. ;D
i'm back! had a great time, feel rougher than a badgers butt still, but hey thats pleasure n pain eh!... ::)
right back to this mutha @#$%ing chorus!...any news pelle?
spotted a little error, the 39k, going to the 180pf should be joined.....as in the original....i'll solder/jump it up and get back...
nope! still the same
@pelle: i have your diylc file now, i'll adjust those bits ok... ;)
If it's the one right under/close to the 3007, it's been mentioned before, but I've waited for more fixes before posting a new layout.
I won't be back until Wednesday evening, but feel free to find all problems before that.
Ps. Enjoy your royal headache ;D
ok, no worries, ive stripped back the layout back to basic without the ground pour just to see it easier...
have fun!.. ;)
i'll get as much done before i test my home brew beer thats ready today!!!...hair of the dog etc... :P
ive audio probed this, getting 'tremolo' at D1 right side!
and audio at pin3 mn3007....dirty, and no chorus..
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 31, 2012, 11:44:15 AM
ha ha drinking mainly, any excuse to get away from the queens jubilee lark.. :icon_mrgreen:...
I understand if you feel a bit tired after running from your queen this weekend, it doesn't look like she likes people running away from the celebrations...
(http://hackedirl.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/epic-win-photos-the-queen-of-bamf-win.jpg)
ha ha..yeah that was aimed at me...luckily she's a bad shot!... :)
re the chorus:
i have both chips banging out a clock/lfo etc afaik...just can't get the bugger to chorus!... :'(
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 05, 2012, 05:11:45 AM
ha ha..yeah that was aimed at me...luckily she's a bad shot!... :)
re the chorus:
i have both chips banging out a clock/lfo etc afaik...just can't get the bugger to chorus!... :'(
Something changed? You had no clock before so lets see ya new voltages.
ok scruffie! back in a bit, gotta swap breadboards over etc.....my cats looking excited again!..she's dying to play a bit of rush... ;D
readers beware: this is for the squeezed 1590b small clone (tonepad) NOT ZOMBIE OK...
OK heres goes round 2 ding ding.. :)
Q1
2n3906
C 0.00
B 4.18
E 4.45-4.66 fluctuates
Q2
2N3904
C 8.85
B 6.81-6.89 fluctuates
E 0.00
Q3
2N3904
C 8.85
B 5.81-6.03 fluctuates
E 4.90-5.16 fluctuates
mn3007
1 4.90-5.19 fl
2 2.36-2.53 fl
3 4.84-5.06 fl
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 2.35-2.52 fl
7 4.24-4.42 fl
8 4.24-4.42
4047
1 4.66-5.01 fl
2 0.08-0.12 fl
3 3.94-4.13 fl
4 4.93-5.18 fl
5 4.90-5.18 fl
6 4.88-5.18 fl
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 2.34-2.52 fl
11 2.36-2.53 fl
12 0.00
13 4.67-5.01 fl
14 4.81-5.18 fl
top opamp 358n
1 1.23-1.94 fl
2 3.60
3 3.57
4 0.00
5 1.38-2.50 fl
6 1.96
7 0.84-6.40 fl
8 8.85
bottom opamp tl072
1 4.42
2 0.00
3 0.00
4 0.00
5 4.42
6 4.43
7 4.43
8 8.86
thats my latest figures...i went over the board triple checked everything, resoldered, scraped between traces etc etc..
just for reference:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/smallcloneclone.jpg)3.94-4.13
sniff sniff...whimper...boo hoo...sniff.....my chorus doesn't like me... :'(
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 05, 2012, 10:21:59 AM
bottom opamp tl072
1 4.42
2 0.00
3 0.00
4 0.00
5 4.42
6 4.43
7 4.43
8 8.86
This kinda stands out! :icon_eek:
Zip, Zilch, Nada on Pins 2 and 3? That just 'aint right :-\
hmmmm....i'll check around there...thought that was odd.....cheers GL. :)
edit@ just checked, getting 4.4 on pins 1.2.3 now... ???
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 05, 2012, 10:21:59 AM
Q1
2n3906
C 4.45-4.66 fluctuates
B 4.18
E 0.00
Also Rob...
Is this a typo? Why do you have a fluctuating voltage on the
COLLECTOR of Q1 when it is supposed to be tied to GND? ???
The transistor isn't installed backwards is it?
EDIT: This message removed because I typed before looking :icon_redface:
the 3906 is the same pinout as a 3904 isnt it?....or have i been misled ???
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 06, 2012, 07:33:36 AM
the 3906 is the same pinout as a 3904 isnt it?....or have i been misled ???
Yes it is however, the Collector of Q1 is tied to GND. You posted it as having a fluctuating voltage.
yep its in the right way...collector 0.00
fluctuates on emitter... :icon_redface:
list ammended
You definitely have an issue around Pin 2 and 3 of your TL072. Thats where you signal enters the circuit :-\
Bad IC perhaps??
i'll swap it out...cheers man. ;)
swapped,
1 4.42
2 4.42
3 4.31
4 0.00
Sweet!!
Are you hearing the sweet, lush chorus now? :icon_cool:
nope!... the mad thing is if i stick a recommended 4558 in there no sound at all....
but get sound with 072's...weird!..unless my 4558 is dodgy...
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 06, 2012, 07:52:20 AM
nope!... the mad thing is if i stick a recommended 4558 in there no sound at all....
but get sound with 072's...weird!..unless my 4558 is dodgy...
OK.... so like my avatar Patrick says: "Only clean output!!" :icon_lol:
Probably a bad 4558. You could try another but, it really should not make a difference.
Might want to repost fresh voltages ;D
Any difference in the output with trimmer adjustments?
Dodgy 3007?
i stuck the 072 back :
fresh voltages
Q1
2n3906
C 0.00
B 4.50
E 4.44-4.84 fluctuates
Q2
2N3904
C 8.85
B 6.81-6.92 fluctuates
E 0.00
Q3
2N3904
C 8.85
B 6.05-6.36 fluctuates
E 4.64-5.09 fluctuates
mn3007
1 4.66-5.09 fl
2 2.24-2.49 fl
3 4.62-5.05 fl
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 2.22-2.47 fl
7 4.11-4.36 fl
8 4.11-4.36 fl
4047
1 4.41-4.89 fl
2 0.07-0.12 fl
3 3.70-3.96 fl
4 4.63-5.08 fl
5 4.63-5.08 fl
6 4.63-5.08 fl
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 2.22-2.46 fl
11 2.24-2.49 fl
12 0.00
13 4.47-4.98 fl
14 4.69-5.10 fl
top opamp 358n
1 1.16-2.01 fl
2 3.60
3 3.45
4 0.00
5 1.94-2.07 fl
6 1.90
7 0.39-7.10 fl
8 8.85
bottom opamp tl072
1 4.42
2 4.42
3 4.31
4 0.00
5 4.41
6 4.43
7 4.43
8 8.85
no diffeence on out at all with trim adjust... ???
i stuck a 100pf instead of 150pf going to the 4047...shouldn't matter though?..and a 47n on input instead of 33nf
edit: if i stick an audio probe on D1 or pin 3 of 4047 and adjust trim i get distorted semi warble sound.....
D1 4.76 4.52 cathode
D2 0.10 3.79-3.83 cathode fl
Rob,
Look here for debug hints:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=58826.0
Worth a shot! ;D
man i think i read every topic on the small clone over the last week or so...
this little @#$%er is really kicking my ass....never had to debug anything this much before!...@#$%ing chorus.. ::)
Rob,
1) BREATHE!!!!! ;D
2) Some things I noticed that differ between this thread and the one I linked:
- Your voltages seem to be 1/2 of the voltages on the other thread (especially around the 3007 and 4047).
- You list 0V on Q2 Emitter. The other thread lists around VRef.
You might want to try audio probing the transistors for the chorused signal as suggested in the other thread.
RELAX.... YOU WILL GET THERE. Its just a matter of finding the villian in this love story ::)
FWIW: You may want to check electro orientation and resistor values for the 100th time :icon_rolleyes:
cheers man...yeah breathe deeply....i thought i'd be alex lifeson'ing it up by now.. :)
i found 2x 5088's i might whip those 3904's out and try it....(i didn't socket em like a mutha @#$%er.. ::)
I HAVE CHORUS!!!!!........WHOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO......
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/th_smiley_emoticons_ozboss_gitarre3.gif)
perrow's layout verified!!!!...nice one perrow!... ;)
i swapped out the 2x 3904's, put the (recommended) 5088's in......voila' lovely chorus!....what a @#$%er that was...(stick to the plan eh! ha ha)
cheers guys scruffie/government lacky for the help, :-*
dooby doo dooby doob doob doo.....i'm a happy bunny...i knew it couldn't be my astounding soldering skills.. ;)
alex lifeson is in my front room now!!!.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
and my cat looks relieved too... :icon_biggrin:
cool as f.... whoooooohoooooooo......modding time!.. ;)
? is the led mod meant to blink or pulse?...
Good to hear Rob!!! ;D
If you want the total package, I definitely recommend ALL of the mods (cap select, stereo out, LED pulsing)
The LED will pulse AND blink depending on what RATE setting you have. If its slooooooooow... it will pulse. If it is fast...... it will blink :icon_lol:
cool, the led comes off the 358 pin 1 with a 47r correct?..
thanks again man!.. ;)
i wanted this to specifically fit a 1590b....2 knobs. that'll do for me.. ;)
hold on, dave gilmour just run in and started playing 'run like hell'......get out.......sod off dave..... :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 06, 2012, 10:18:18 AM
cool, the led comes off the 358 pin 1 with a 47r correct?..
YEP! ;)
Also, you could try the Speed adjustment mod (switching the LFO Rate caps)
Cheers and happy Chorusing ;D
hmmm tried the led 5mm and a 3mm off the pin 1....to faint to see....
358n pin 1 voltages:
1.27-2.19 hmmmm thats why...
tried without the 47r ...same!..
edit:
no worries, just tried with a standard 5mm (not superbright) cool....pulses lovely now!!....whohoooooooooooooo :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
2x5mm in parallel works great...not in series..we have eyes!!!!!... :icon_eek: :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
OK, nice to have it verified, now why doesn't mine work ???
Guess I'll have to debug it ;D
oh man!...mine was a nightmare!....but sorted now thank f... :icon_cool: :icon_cool: :icon_cool:
Quote from: Perrow on June 06, 2012, 10:56:14 AM
OK, nice to have it verified, now why doesn't mine work ???
Guess I'll have to debug it ;D
ROUND 2............... FIGHT!!! :icon_eek:
d'Astro, could you be bothered posting working voltages?
^ NO!.... :D
ok after a few coffee's.... ;)
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 07, 2012, 02:59:10 AM
^ NO!.... :D
ok after a few coffee's.... ;)
No worries, it'll be a while before I get some cave time, and then I suspect I really should be working on my p1k entry ::)
yeah me too...clueless as to what to do at the mo... ::)
ok here goes, with my working voltages for the 'small clone' 'perrows 1590b layout' chorus!..
and a very nice chorus it is...no ticking at all..turned it right up on my mixer...brilliant!....apart from dave gilmour and alex lifeson fighting to have a go of it.. ..... ;D
Q1
2n3906
C 0.00
B 2.57
E 3.22
Q2
2N5088
C 8.80
B 3.58
E 3.01
Q3
2n5088
C 8.80
B 8.77
E 8.13
mn3007
1 8.13
2 4.04
3 3.78
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 4.03
7 3.67
8 3.67
4047
1 7.91-7.97 fl
2 0.10-0.13 fl
3 6.64-6.86 fl
4 8.13
5 8.13
6 8.13
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 4.03
11 4.03
12 0.00
13 7.93-7.98 fl
14 8.13
top opamp 358n
1 0.94-2.24 fl
2 3.58
3 3.55
4 0.00
5 1.16-2.98 fl
6 1.95
7 0.03-7.52 fl
8 8.80
bottom opamp tl072
1 4.40
2 4.40
3 4.29
4 0.00
5 4.39
6 4.40
7 4.41
8 8.80
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 07, 2012, 05:53:40 AM
yeah me too...clueless as to what to do at the mo... ::)
ok here goes, with my working voltages for the 'small clone' 'perrows 1590b layout' chorus!..
I know what to do, just haven't had the inspiration to work on it lately, guess it's time to start soon ;D
I created a little page on my wiki for the Small Clone (http://rumbust.net/tiki-index.php?page=Small+Clone+Chorus). Posted your voltages, hope you're OK with that.
yeah no worries!.. ;)
designing my chorus etch now!...2 bespoke ones for my mates!..fussy sods! ::)
cool page, might wanna change the 470nf to pf.. :icon_cool:
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 07, 2012, 08:03:20 AM
cool page, might wanna change the 470nf to pf.. :icon_cool:
I'll look into that ::)
@pelle: any news?...
etched 2 boxes..
the one on the left is for a old friend who collects war militaria, he'll love this....
the one on the right is the 'baphomet' for a friend who is an angel witch fan. old school..... :icon_cool:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/P100612_16.23.jpg)
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 10, 2012, 11:23:02 AM
@pelle: any news?...
Yes, our new windows are nicely installed, about half of the stuff we shuffled out of the way is back to where it should be and we've spent most of the day at IKEA planning our new kitchen ;D
Hopefully get some cave time this week, but can't promise anything :(
at least you have windows now though... :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah, was quite dark before ;D
I stole a few minutes to debug last night and can now say with certainty that this circuit works better with the input cap installed. No chorus yet though.
ive run out of 1n914's... ::)
will the 1n4148's be ok?... :)
I hope so, I used them out of old habit.
i guess i'll find out today, just finished up 2 pcbs.... arghhhhh more debugging!.. :icon_eek:
EDIT: tried 4558's in both, no chorus...whacked 072's in..perfect!!!..lush chorus on 1.....weird eh!. ::)
the one with the 1n4148 isn't chorusing yet though...no lfo yet....hmmm.. ::)
edit: found a 1n914....still not chorusing, no lfo.. ???
okay round 2 of debugging...on 3rd build...tonepad small clone!..
same thing, sound no chorus: but getting rumbly hiss when using trim halfway...no lfo, no fluctuating voltages.... :'(
ive checked the pcb, cleaned trace gaps under magnifier....swapped 3007/4047..358..
Q1 2N3906
C 0.00
B 3.27
E 3.92
Q2 2N5088
C 8.85
B 5.26
E 4.69
Q3 2N5088
C 8.85
B 8.80
E 8.18
MN3007
1 8.18
2 4.07
3 4.47
4 0.00
5 0.00
6 4.06
7 5.23
8 5.21
4047
1 7.98
2 0.12
3 6.82
4 8.18
5 8.18
6 8.18
7 0.00
8 0.00
9 0.00
10 4.06
11 4.07
12 0.00
13 8.01
14 8.18
358 TOP OPAMP
1 1.73
2 1.64
3 3.55
4 0.00
5 1.72
6 1.95
7 1.65
8 8.85
072 BOTTOM OPAMP
1 4.39
2 4.39
3 4.28
4 0.00
5 4.38
6 4.39
7 4.39
8 8.84
bumpy bumpy!...^ ???
just a note: the output on the chorus is much louder than bypass..needs a trim/resistor on output!... ;)
Hey Rob,
One thing is for certain.... your LFO is dead! Where's the wobble mate?
Did you jumper Ra?
My suggestion is the usual. Component values, capacitor orientation... especially around the 358. Doubt its a solder joint :-\
After that.... I would try a new 3007.
Good Luck ;D
cheers man,
yeah jumpered, built exactly the same as 2 others...this one is just being a pita...and its my one.. typical!.. ::)
swapped 358,3007,4047...no lfo...hmmmm....
ha ha yeah obviously not.. ;)
Resistor color codes around LFO circuit ???
heres a finished one...need to sort mine out still though!... ::)
ok i'm back on debugging my chorus...still not getting lfo, not sure why
i checked my working voltages on the 358 and compared to the non working voltages...there really can't be much to go wrong looking at the circuit..
working voltages and non working voltages on the 358 top opamp
1 0.94-2.24.....non 1.73
2 3.58 .....non 1.63
3 3.55 .... non 3.55 ok
4 0.00 ....non 0.00 ok
5 1.16-2.98 ...non 1.71
6 1.95 .....non 1.95 ok
7 0.03-7.52...non 1.63
8 8.86 8.86 ok...
so the problem is around 1,2,5,7 pins....hmmmm...ive double checked values around it , but no lfo.....any more ideas?..
i just noticed a weird thing, when i cut the power to the pcb it tries to chorus just as the signal dies...hmmmm..
so it sounds like it wants to do it....weird!.. :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on June 14, 2012, 10:24:10 AM
heres a finished one...need to sort mine out still though!... ::)
Hi, where you put LED on pcb, there arent on pictures
Morning....
That is a tonepad chorus....not a zombie chorus...
Take an led via a 1k resitor to ground from the lfo out....
If i remember correctly....
which PCB is for that, for tonepad chorus
I think its the "heladito" ...
Hi, I apologize if resurrected this topic because I have a doubt, following the pcb deadastronaut do not understand where to connect the LEDs, typically using a 2k2 resistance, but do not see it on the pcb, you must connect it to part with the resistance or c ' is possibility to connect it directly on the circuit?
Thank's :icon_wink:
wow that was a long time ago...
IIRC i just hooked it up via a resistor to the IC on the pcb yes...
however, it will blink, rather than pulse...
I'm buying all the components to build the pedal because I really like how it sounds (much like the Small Clone) and very intuitive as a project. What interests me is that the LED is on continuously, when the 9Volts attack to report that the pedal is on, I do not want to blink or pulse. It would be possible to know exactly how to connect the positive of the LED?
Thank's dedastronaut :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on October 27, 2016, 08:42:13 AM
wow that was a long time ago...
IIRC i just hooked it up via a resistor to the IC on the pcb yes...
however, it will blink, rather than pulse...
ahhh..so you mean how to wire up a 3pdt switch + led...?
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=113305.msg1048675#msg1048675
:)
Quote from: deadastronaut on October 27, 2016, 11:59:21 AM
ahhh..so you mean how to wire up a 3pdt switch + led...?
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=113305.msg1048675#msg1048675
:)
Hello deadastronaut excuse the delay in answering. I wanted to know how to connect the LED to the 3PDT switch, now everything is solved, I just put the LED light on and just, nothing led to 3PDT
Thank you so much from Italy ;)
Quote from: Dylananto on November 10, 2016, 05:12:37 PM
Thank you so much from Italy ;)
Greetings, writing this from Milano :icon_mrgreen:
(Conference)
cool, glad you got it done... 8)
Hello, I finished building my small clone but I have a problem when I tried running you will hear a ticking noise type, just touch the strings of the guitar you hear this ticking and you can barely hear the little sound in the amplifier. I have done many tests, I unsoldered all wires from the switch 3dpt, I connected all direct co 9v battery, but nothing, it always makes the same sound, touch the strings and you hear this annoying ticking. I even double-checked overalls tracks and welds one by one but it looks okay. What could it be? I am so disappointed and angry :(
I can't solve the problem, no one can help me? Deadastronaut can you help me?
I incorporated a couple of fixes on my Zombie build, and got rid of the ticks. Here is the Schematic I used:
Note the mods in blue ink: there are two reference voltages, a capacitor in the flashing LED circuit, and a pair of caps at the oscillator IC power pin, literally right on the pin.
If I were to build another, I would change the power section: use a 1N5817 reverse polarity protection diode (rather than the BS250), then a series 47R resistor followed with 100uF and 100nF (ceramic) to ground for better supply filtering. This gives a knee at about 32Hz, getting rid of 50 cycle and above hum.
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2403_zpsly8c0zqb.jpg)
Quote from: Cozybuilder on December 13, 2016, 09:54:26 AM
I incorporated a couple of fixes on my Zombie build, and got rid of the ticks. Here is the Schematic I used:
Note the mods in blue ink: there are two reference voltages, a capacitor in the flashing LED circuit, and a pair of caps at the oscillator IC power pin, literally right on the pin.
If I were to build another, I would change the power section: use a 1N5817 reverse polarity protection diode (rather than the BS250), then a series 47R resistor followed with 100uF and 100nF (ceramic) to ground for better supply filtering. This gives a knee at about 32Hz, getting rid of 50 cycle and above hum.
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2403_zpsly8c0zqb.jpg)
Hi Cozybuilder, thank's for the your reply. You could post some pictures of the pcb?
This is the circuit that I have followed taking it from page 2 of this thread:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/smallcloneclone.jpg
I don't know if my build will help, as it was done on perf, not PCB.
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2402_zpsbgpmnrkn.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2434_zpsk758gwkk.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2488_zpsxtaussmr.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2489_zpsqxq3qwtx.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2493_zpsr8javyob.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Zombie%20Chorus/DSCN2490_zpsau4uh9cp.jpg)
Thanks but this is not of great help to me, still very beautiful your stompbox :icon_wink:
Wow, a chorus in that small box.
The "can do" attitude of you guys never ceases to amaze me!
Quote from: Rob Strand on December 13, 2016, 04:11:07 PM
Wow, a chorus in that small box.
The "can do" attitude of you guys never ceases to amaze me!
Yep, those guys at IBM drawing corporate logos out of individual atoms just don't come close... ;)
(Thanks for reminding us mere mortals of your microscopic insanity, Russ!)
Quote from: Cozybuilder on December 13, 2016, 09:54:26 AM
I incorporated a couple of fixes on my Zombie build, and got rid of the ticks. Here is the Schematic I used:
Note the mods in blue ink: there are two reference voltages, a capacitor in the flashing LED circuit, and a pair of caps at the oscillator IC power pin, literally right on the pin.
If I were to build another, I would change the power section: use a 1N5817 reverse polarity protection diode (rather than the BS250), then a series 47R resistor followed with 100uF and 100nF (ceramic) to ground for better supply filtering. This gives a knee at about 32Hz, getting rid of 50 cycle and above hum.
Dear Cozy,
thanks for sharing your knowledge, I was reading your post and as soon as possible il try to apply it to my build too :)
What kind of capacitor are you using? None of those are electrolytic?
thanks in advance :)
Quote from: mgsrake on December 19, 2016, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Cozybuilder on December 13, 2016, 09:54:26 AM
I incorporated a couple of fixes on my Zombie build, and got rid of the ticks. Here is the Schematic I used:
Note the mods in blue ink: there are two reference voltages, a capacitor in the flashing LED circuit, and a pair of caps at the oscillator IC power pin, literally right on the pin.
If I were to build another, I would change the power section: use a 1N5817 reverse polarity protection diode (rather than the BS250), then a series 47R resistor followed with 100uF and 100nF (ceramic) to ground for better supply filtering. This gives a knee at about 32Hz, getting rid of 50 cycle and above hum.
Dear Cozy,
thanks for sharing your knowledge, I was reading your post and as soon as possible il try to apply it to my build too :)
What kind of capacitor are you using? None of those are electrolytic?
thanks in advance :)
He is using what looks to me to be monolithic and tantalum caps. The tants are indeed electrolytic and will have polarity.
Poly: C1(Tayda box), C5 (Wima- Mouser)
Ceramic: C2, C3, C4, C6, C7, C8, C9, C11, C13 and U3 pin8 (100pF): 2 types- 2.54mm lead spacing (Mouser) & MLCC (5mm lead spacing- Tayda)
Tantalum: C10, C12, C14, C15 and U3 pin 8 (22uF) (from Tayda)
You left out the make and model of electron microscope, Russ... ;)
Ok problem solved! They were not of good welds, now works great! Chorus Chorus Chorus ;D
If you tell me how to insert photos I post here. Thank you all ;)
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 09:19:55 AM
If you tell me how to insert photos I post here. Thank you all ;)
- Find a home for your picture on the intenet (e.g. imgur.com).
- Click on Mona: (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/Themes/DIYTheme2/images/bbc/img.gif)
- Put the URL of the picture1 from step 1 between the [img] tags.
- Check your picture is visible using the "Preview" button.
- Hit "Post"! :)
---
1 Has to be a picture, not an HTML page. So something ending .PNG or .JPG or similar.
Sorry but I can not put any images :(
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cXelizO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
I've done it ;D
To be my first pedal DIY is not bad ;)
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 06:02:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cXelizO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
I've done it ;D
To be my first pedal DIY is not bad ;)
I like the font and the image. Reminds me of the movie Dazed and Confused.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106677/mediaviewer/rm3954875648
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 05:57:15 PM
Sorry but I can not put any images :(
incorrect!
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 06:02:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
I've done it ;D
To be my first pedal DIY is not bad ;)
correct, and correct! well done, both counts.
Quote from: duck_arse on December 23, 2016, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 05:57:15 PM
Sorry but I can not put any images :(
incorrect!
Quote from: Dylananto on December 22, 2016, 06:02:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/g4qSDEF.jpg)
I've done it ;D
To be my first pedal DIY is not bad ;)
correct, and correct! well done, both counts.
Thank's ;)
Hi everyone, my Epic Chorus suddenly stopped running, at normal volume not by any sound, if I raise the volume of the amplifier at most it feels a bit chorus sound. I checked everything, welds, potentiometers, I checked the values of q1, q2, q3, MN3007,4047,358,4558 and all the values are ok. What could be the problem? :'(
Regards
Antonio
hi guys, didnt want to start another chorus thread....but
am i losing it or what?
in the data sheet for a mn3007 pins are
1 gnd
2 cp1
3 in
4 vcc +voltage
5 vdd
6 cp2
7 out
8 out
correct?
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/14235/PANASONIC/MN3007.html
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mn3007&client=opera&tbm=isch&imgil=aToXEGogR_NS-M%253A%253BdWfKvotdgkS3wM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.musikding.de%25252FMN3007&source=iu&pf=m&fir=aToXEGogR_NS-M%253A%252CdWfKvotdgkS3wM%252C_&usg=__FbcUAuX7VZt8P2YBVCw70zJunxc%3D&biw=992&bih=731&ved=0ahUKEwiYibf3jYXWAhXKC8AKHcQaAvYQyjcIQQ&ei=9eipWdi6JcqXgAbEtYiwDw#imgrc=aToXEGogR_NS-M:
whereas on the chorus's ive looked at, zombie etc etc..
they have used
1 +voltage
2
3
4 gnd
5 gnd
6
7 +voltage via resistor
8 +voltage via resistor
whats that about..???
Hmmm... weird. I thought it's due to 3007 vs. 3207, but I can't see a difference in the datasheets I'm looking at. But at least two Madbean projects (Current Lover, Pork Barrel) can accommodate either chip; however, you have to set a pair of jumpers one way or the other because, as Brian states, the power and ground pins (1 and 5) are reversed. But like I said, the datasheets don't appear to reflect this. Perhaps I'm looking at bad datasheets... ???
Hmmmm yeah very strange...i looked at a few sheets, all the same...
does your datasheet spec Vdd as -15V? the one I was looking at does. so if you have -15V, then pin 5 is supply and pin 1 is ground. if'n it's +15V you have, then pin 1 goes supply (shown in the application circuit as connected to Vcc, no less) and pin 5 goes ground. (I'll stand now, waiting to be corrected .....)
from a sheet marked "Panasonic MN3000 series MN3007".
hi guys, revisited this old zombie tick lark......
i breaded up the old zombie as it is a nice lush chorus....and yes it had the usual ticky /sound of crickets in the background....annoying as hell..
and has rightly peed me off the last few days...tried all the anti tick stuff..to no avail..
however i think i cured it in a strange unorthadox way....
on the 4046 in the schemo the 9v goes to pin 16.....however, i connected the 9v to pin 15 too (which on the datasheet they call 'zener' (pin-15)
and voil'a, utterly silent....whether the 4046 will suffer later is another thing.. :icon_mrgreen:
but yay it bloody works....great.
but its working very nicely.
i swapped out the schemo lfo for my own too...(but it did tick with the original, and mine..)
putting this out there for any other future zombies... 8)
but why would that work?????? cheers guys. back to playing rush songs again. :icon_mrgreen:
VERY interesting. I will have to try that.
^ yeah give it a go mark......still working nicely on breadboard... 8) 8) 8)
edit: just to test i swapped out the 062 for an 072 too...still fine. 8)
It looks like that pin is intended "to assist supply regulation". It's a 7V zener, so I guess it's having the effect of dragging your supply down to 7V? Although I think it's intended that there's a resistance between the power supply and a zener for this regulation to happen (that's a zener thing, not a 4046 thing).
Caveat: I'm just regurgitating what I'm reading on Wikpedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_diode#Uses) and the TI website (http://www.ti.com/product/CD4046B). I am a very tired bunny (gonna turn into a pumpkin any time now) and may be talking bollocks. Sooo... YMMV. ;)
Cheers Marc, I,ll have a measure up when I get a mo to see if its pulled down to 7v then.... 8)
Cool. I'm awake now and I've had coffee. It would be nice to know if I was making any sense at all! ;D
Cool, deadastronaut! 8)
I built the layout from tagboard, and it's fine enough. It ticks just at extreme setting, but in normal chorus sound it's pretty ok.
I read, but I still never tried, that the Sabrotone layout is ticking-less. I don't remember, but the schematic is almost the same, just some 9v and Vref filtering differences. But I'm not sure if it's really meaning.
So, just it? Should we have add a jumper from the pin 16 to the pin 15?
^ yep that's it.....try it.
I had seperate vref for opamps and lfo, still ticked, more like a cricket sound... 8)
edit: pin 14/15/16 at 9v... not 7.
just wait till anotherjim sees this ......
I never seen nowt guv.
That pin15 Zener voltage can be almost anything it wants.
For a TI CD4046 chip it's 4.45v to 6.15v. Philips HEF4046 it's a nominal 7.2v with no promises of a min or max.
Like any other Zener, it ought to be run with some current limiting resistance in the feed.
To work as Rob has it I'm guessing that every time a tick pulse pops up over the supply voltage, the Zener clamps it down.
Egor It's alive, alive I say.
Took me hours to debug the lfo but my Zombie is working.
Go figure the timing caps aint 1uf but 1nf, it sinks in eventually. Who drew that?????
Hate having really bad short term memory.....
MN3007 CD4046 version.
Now what are some mods please.
Timing caps? using 1nf's
Pin12 R? using 100k
Tried the pin15>+9V results no ticking.
Thanks Rob.
LM358 lfo
TL072 Audio path
(https://i.postimg.cc/SYy6j4Xc/Zombie-Chorus-my-way.png) (https://postimg.cc/SYy6j4Xc)
cool glad its working with no ticking man....at long last a cure... 8)
Which lfo are you using please Rob?
Are there any no no's with the lfo.
How would it sound with a square wave?
So far mods I've tried and like.
Mod 1
Instead of 100k clock R it tried some different values
Least ohms I like was 33k most 470
So I tried 33k series and B500k pot pin 12 of CD4046.
The pot didn't have the same impact I thought it might, you can't just turn the pot and hear it.
Abandoned that in favour of a switch with either a 100k, 220k or 100k, 470k selection.
You can defo hear the difference on a switch.
Might be some kind of pot interaction dunno what that's all about.
The timing cap mod.
Originally 2x 1nf
Love that.
However I like 2x 220pf
All the while maintaining the Clone mod.
Thanks for the heads up DA on some possible mods.
Has anyone tried a series 10k>pot as a varistor? For the dry path.
You think this would go screwy too?
Let's face it a pot doesn't take up much more room in a build than a switchs footprint.
Just gonna leave this here as I'll probably reference RG's values in future.
Inc schematic.
http://www.geofex.com/PCB_layouts/Layouts/zombie.pdf
The Zombie Chorus work with a StompLFO chip too.
More pitch shifter at high depth setting.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7fKyHXx6/Trikbox-Flo-Rida-Un-De-D-Chorus-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/7fKyHXx6)
Quick question is it ok to change R19 and R18
Schematic for ref
http://www.geofex.com/PCB_layouts/Layouts/zombie.pdf
I understand the R on pin 12 I've been swapping it out.
But would swapping the R to pin11 make a difference.
Is it a case of one sets the low and one sets the high?
If so how low can R to pin11 go?
Thanks
hi rich, i'm using the lfo from my dreamtime delay....works nice, and led pulsing too....
still working . no magic smoke... 8)
Do you still have the short going to pin 15 from pin 16, or have you current-limited it with a small resistor?
pin 15 still at 9v.....havent tried a resistor yet.
edit: i'm testing taming the input on it, (and feeback gain) as it distorts a bit with humbucker when hit hard.....
Thanks Rob.
I'll go have a lookie see.
I figure as long as the CD4046 is in the bbd input. I can throw any old lfo at it and just see.
There's a PSO on the same breadboard. Might yock her up and listen.
Btw did you see that one of the kit chorus has a tri to sine converter?
I'll leave a link.
This is fun. Not sure mine qualify as a chorus really at all settings.
In a good way.
Edit, still have pin15>+9V no r
rich, whack a guitar with a good humbucker in it....and see if you get any clipping/distortion...??
Will do. Hit it with some buckers.
I'll get back to you and consider a pad if needs be, what about actives? Hmmmmmm
Here's the byoc mega chorus.
http://byocelectronics.com/megachorusschematic.pdf
See how they deal with the sine wave from the lfo
Defo prefers single coils Rob.
one of my bucker babys sounded ok the other must have hotter pick ups and the zombie didnt like it as much. More noise/dist not sure.
I put a 1k at input to try to tame it a little but its probably gonna need a more elegant and in depth solution. It'll do for initial trials though.
When you have the ticking, I'm curious to know if it gets chorused or not?
Quote from: Kipper4 on January 31, 2020, 12:15:51 PM
..... yock her up .......
Btw did you see that one of the kit chorus has a tri to sine converter?
I played breadbord w/ that topology tri/sine converter a long while back - I seem to recall it could hypersine to hypertri, as well.
Sweet
still having issues with it distorting/clipping with humbuckers :icon_rolleyes:.....single coils are fine.
might have to clamp down the feedback resistor and then add a recovery stage....hmmmmm
thoughts?
Unfortunately, the Zombie has no DC-blocking cap between the input stage and the MN3007, otherwise I would say just drop the value of the cap to shave off some bass.
However, in an effort to simplify the circuit, Hollis used a single bias voltage for the audio path and LFO, such that the bias voltage applied to the input stage is shared with the BBD. While it simplifies things and removes the need for bias trimmer and DC blocking cap, it also means you can't shape the tone of the wet path before it hits the BBD.
Ideally, you'll need to adjust the bias voltage for the op-amps and LFO such that it is V+/2, and provide a trimmer to feed the BBD with the required bias voltage. I gather a 100k trimmer and 100k current-limiting resistor from the trimmer wiper to the BBD input pin is fairly standard. What remains to be identified is the value of any cap between the output of the op-amp and the input pin of the BBD. Note that the dry signal still goes from the output pin of the input stage to the mixer. The added cap is just to trim off some bass and render the wet path a little more immune to clipping from large amplitude swings of bass.
Truth be told, many choruses sound a little nicer with some of the bass removed. It makes the pitch wobble less obvious. Normally I do it at the mixing stage, but for purposes of reducing clipping, you need to do it before the BBD, not after.
(http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/zombie.jpg)
cheers mark, i did try a resistor out of the opamp and before the bbd, however that just lost all chorus effect..
didnt think to try a cap....so will give that a go. 8) back later.
update: tried it , no joy, lost all chorus, still clipped.
i even tried a seperate buffer after the opamp/before the bbd....same clipping result...
i tried a vol pot at the input, but that also cut the chorus.....
guess this chorus is for strats only by the looks of it... :icon_rolleyes:
I guess now you know why so many BBD-based devices also use companding.
Have any of you seen this Stompboxology article on tremolo? I bring it up because there is a "'Clickless' Op-Amp Triangle Generator," on page 3. You add a small capacitor and a resistor to the LFO and it basically rounds the edges of the square wave, where those hard shifts in current can sometimes cause clicking.
http://moosapotamus.net/files/stompboxology-mo-tremlo.pdf