Hi,
I would like to share with you my latest build. A 1W amplifier using the TDA7052. In my opinion it sounds much better than any LM386 it has a much better frequency response (only one capacitor on the signal path). It works with batteries but preferable with 1.5V AA in series. I usually power it with a 9V power source.
(http://diale.org/img/punch.png)
Comments, suggestions?
Cheers.
cool, is it very clean?
Yes, very clean, wonderful to plug in any effect!
cool, might have to knock this up as part of my grandsons xmas prezzie... (he wants a guitar) :icon_twisted:
i'm making him a spitfire distortion, so he'll be stoked with a liittle amp too..cool.
might have to whack an headphone on it too though...to keep his mum happy.. ::)
I just looked through my chip amp notes and found a schematic using the 7052. It appears that I found that the chip had less pleasing overdrive tones than the 386, but I was feeding it with a FET gain stage rather than a buffer. I may have been clipping the FET and the chip was innocent. I did put in a low pass filter ahead of the chip, so it must have been a little bright to my ears.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Here's another nice one and really loud 3W runs anywhere from 6v to 15v and very small...(TDA7267) I run it from 9v and it drives a 4x12 @ 8ohms and loudly!
http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/illustrated/illustrated_assembly_manual_k8066.pdf
Sounds great with guitar!
^ 3watts...nice!
my little roland cube is 2watts and is loud enough to annoy people....so 3 is even better!...nice one. :icon_cool:
I gather these chips are typically found in small plastic add-on speakers for computers or MP3 players?
Have to try the punch amp, thanks for posting.
Can someone please email me the TDA7267 (Velleman kit) schematic please?
I keep getting errors trying to download it. And the one on line is tiny...
Thanks
John
sent it to ya John.
this it what i made with the velleman kit. (they sell the kit at radioshack for about $20)
(http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj545/haveyouseenhim/1330252616098.jpg)
Just made a PCB. Going to test it tomorrow.
(http://www.diale.org/img/punch_pcb_1.png)
Cheers.
Quote from: deadastronaut on September 24, 2012, 06:19:04 AM
cool, is it very clean?
Quote from: tca on September 24, 2012, 06:28:00 AM
Yes, very clean, wonderful to plug in any effect!
That's a good point, indeed. I made some trials with the LM386 and none of them were satisfactory for a reasonably audible clean power
on guitar, even if I noticed that the speaker had an important influence on the result - I speak about small/miniature speakers, not guitar speakers, indeed !
Here's what I tried for guitar. it wasn't interesting... nor in power, nor in tone... I also tried the Smokey amp : it was the less bad, but not worth...
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/542927essaiHYH.jpg)
Conversely, I could derive from it an excellent battery-powered stereo monitor for my PC, very good sounding and powerful, with a volume and a tone control, using 2xLM386 (= 1 per channel) :
(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/305320IMG8794.jpg)
But connecting a guitar on that monitor gives inexplicably bad results : saturation, low power output...
A+!
^ nice builds though bruno/mike..
@tca: might be worth adding a tone control, and headphone on it too..
Quote from: deadastronaut on September 25, 2012, 03:57:29 AM
might be worth adding a tone control, and headphone on it too..
I just wanted an plug-in-and-play amp with a small part number and I usually don't play with headphones (it makes me dizzy). But a tone control could be a nice thing. I didn't also put a volume control because I use a L-Pad (8Ohm attenuater) between the amp and the speaker and this works fine as a master volume.
BTW, the LM386 does not like this L-Pad, it reacts strangely to it, but it works great with the TDA7052.
Cheers.
@tubelectron I've made also stereo monitor for my PC but using two class A mosfet (IRF610) amplifier.
(http://www.diale.org/img/q-amp/IMGA0683.JPG)
It works fine with a booster but due to the power source (9V/100mA) it is some what muddy when used with a guitar. These class A configurations works better with higher currents and higher voltages, but nevertheless it is the amp that I use to listen to music from my PC.
Cheers.
P.S.
The bulbs are the drain load for each of the mosfet.
@tubelectron I've build a few Rubys and usually the speaker that I use is something like this double cone speaker:
(http://cdn.sonigate.com/product_images/UT528_Altifalante-5-14-para-Grave-25-W-Maximo-15-W-RMS_3..jpg)
Freq. range: 50 - 12.000 Hz,
Sensitivity: 90 dB, 1 W/1 m
Size: 5.25''
It is this speaker that I plug in the punch amp.
You can buy them in Portugal for about 15 eurs.
Cheers.
that sounds expensive, you can almost get a "real" guitar speaker, like jensen mod 6 or mod 8
Quote from: bancika on September 25, 2012, 10:55:17 AM
that sounds expensive, you can almost get a "real" guitar speaker, like jensen mod 6 or mod 8
You are quite right, but I can't find them with that price in Portugal (or online + mail), and I do like the sound of these speakers that I just mention.
Cheers.
I'm going to pick up one or more of these to knock up a cheap bass amp. I'll be running the output of a Bass Pod through it, so I don't need tone controls etc. Looks perfect, but any suggestions what speaker I should use?
This is very much 'bedroom' use so I don't want it to be loud, but I want to hear the lows a little more than my current ValveJnr with the 8" speaker ;)
Hallo, just a few words to confirm what tca say about the tda7052.
Some times ago I posted an even simpler project on fsb, the nano amp http://www.filedropper.com/nanoamp
It was super simple but way better and cleaner sounding than the classic lm386 projects (it should be a little more powerful, so you also get some more headroom). My amp was (before a wrong polarity incident ;D) my go to friend for testing circuits on the breadboard late at night, because it did not colour too much the sound.
Of course it sounded way better and brighter with a buffered pedal before, so the idea to add a buffer seems very good.
Right now I use a transistor amp with a small output transformer; it sounds good but it is almost unusable wile breadboarding because it distorts too much.
I still have a couple of tda7052 and (if I did not fry them too) I want to give a go to this project.
Just made a PCB for the PUNCH. (http://www.diale.org/pdf/punch-v1.pdf) Enjoy.
Cheers.
EDIT: BTW, tested.
Here is the webpage for the PUNCH (http://www.diale.org/punch.html).
Cheers.
bravo, thanks
Just made a cabinet for the PUNCH with a 3'' speaker and using a IKEA wooden box. The rear photo shows the 9V battery enclosure.
(http://www.diale.org/img/punch-cabinet.png)
Cheers.
looks great...nice touch with the battery box.. :icon_cool:
Just made a VERO version using the diy-layout-creator. Great software.
(http://www.diale.org/img/punch-vero.png)
Cheers.
hi tiago:
i breadboarded the ruby yesterday, and found its not for me...
i'll order up a couple of these TDA7052'S and try yours on breadboard too....9v-12v.
i looked in ikea for the same sturdy box you used, no joy....hmmmm...i'm sure i'll find something else suitable......eventually ::).
i'll try it out on breadboard and if it sounds ok, i'll build/get a speaker box and then match the EQ to suit it... 8)
thanks for sharing man... 8)
Hi Rob, looking forward to hear about your build.
Cheers.
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 18, 2013, 03:21:53 AM
i looked in ikea for the same sturdy box you used, no joy....hmmmm...i'm sure i'll find something else suitable......eventually ::).
I agreed to get dragged along to IKEA on the unspoken premise that I would pick up one (or two) of these handy "mini guitar cabs". B*ggers had discontinued it. >:(
ha ha yeah i got dragged too.... :)
Stopped at Radio Shack today, and they have the 3 watt kit (K8066RS) for $9.99 (over 50% off). Not a bad price.
Does this have to be direct-soldered, or can an 8-pin IC socket be used? I've seen some chips that say DO NOT use a socket.
Quote from: rutabaga bob on February 10, 2013, 05:40:07 PM
Does this have to be direct-soldered, or can an 8-pin IC socket be used? I've seen some chips that say DO NOT use a socket.
I've used a socket, but you can solder it if you want to.
I used a socket with the TDA7052A chip.. great clean amp for the bedroom/family room.
Thanks to you both! This is on my list of projects...thinking of putting a valvecaster on the front end. Larry
Quote from: chptunes on February 11, 2013, 11:29:24 AM
I used a socket with the TDA7052A chip.. great clean amp for the bedroom/family room.
The TDA7052 has more gain, requires a more tolerant wife/family.
Cheers.
Forgot to ask: the 7052 is the only chip available in my area. For a volume control, should I just wire in a pre-gain pot?
Quote from: rutabaga bob on February 11, 2013, 12:31:26 PM
Forgot to ask: the 7052 is the only chip available in my area. For a volume control, should I just wire in a pre-gain pot?
A 10k pot between the buffer and the chip, one lug to buffer, the other to ground and wiper to chip, that should work.
i see there is a tda7052 a than has a volume lug on the chip as well .
DC volume control
Few external components
Mute mode
Thermal protection
Short-circuit proof
No switch-on and off clicks
Good overall stability
Low power consumption
Frightens house pets
Low HF radiation
ESD protected on all pins
you run the pot from ground to pin 4 . i wonder what the benifit of this design is . oh well , i ordered 5 so i guess i will never know unless i bought the normal ones and a/b'ed em .
my goal is to do a simple fuzz circuit and house them both in the amp chassis . tried this with an lm386 and it howls like mad .
Frightens house pets
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 12:40:03 PM
i see there is a tda7052 a than has a volume lug on the chip as well .
you run the pot from ground to pin 4 . i wonder what the benifit of this design is . oh well , i ordered 5 so i guess i will never know unless i bought the normal ones and a/b'ed em .
Beware. I also built my Punch with the TDA7052
A chip, and some changes are required. R3 (10k) should be omitted. The DC Volume (Pin 4) is at full gain with a 1M Resistor to Ground.. 100k is a about half volume, and is a nice fixed level for living room use in my experience.
My Punch project morphed into this:
(http://s6.postimage.org/48alhz65t/1w_Punch_Optimized_for_PP3_R001_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
-Corey
thank you
what is the purpose of the 8 ohm resistor in series with the speaker ?
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 01:30:30 PM
thank you
what is the purpose of the 8 ohm resistor in series with the speaker ?
A 16 Ohm load drops the wattage and current, keeping battery power feasable. This resistor should be rated at 1w or more [I used a 3w resistor].
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 12:40:03 PM
oh well , i ordered 5 so i guess i will never know unless i bought the normal ones and a/b'ed em .
You can do some extra stuff with the TDA7052A like adding a tremolo (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99407.0) The phase shift oscillator of the EA tremolo has the right voltage, see the schematic on the given link.
Cheers.
Just built a basic Punch circuit for a friend. Used the TDA7052A chip and A500k DC Volume Potentiometer. The speaker measures around 1.5" wide by 2.75" long, and is rated for 3w at 8 Ohms.. last time I ordered from Mouser, I threw it in the shopping cart for cheap.
The current draw is 11.6mA at idle [Volume full].. when crashing a G chord, the current draw spikes between 20-25mA. Battery life should be fine, especially if using an adapter part-time.
It's just a quirky novelty gift for my best bud, really. Sounds clean, but saturated because of the tiny speaker. Tiago's Punch circuit stays clean, so it accepts pedals nicely.. I drove this "Snickers Punch" with my AMZ Tweed Stack last night. Fun high gain crunch at whisper level. My wife says it's cute and family friendly.
(http://s6.postimage.org/44mai7nxt/Snickers_Punch_Exterior_front_2013_02_18.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/sz5sca8s1/Snickers_Punch_Exterior_rear_2013_02_18.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/u2pwo8tf5/Snickers_Punch_Interior_front_2013_02_18.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/r9wp47t2p/Snickers_Punch_Interior_rear_2013_02_18.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
-Corey
^ Lovely!
+1!
That is a really great example of a re-purposed enclosure. Nice work.
very nice , and too cute ! my mini noisey cricket is in a tin enclosure something like that . it oscillates like mad with a extra bass fuzz stage in there .
i like the idea of those cheap tin enclosures but man , drilling them is , well i just get very nervous !
i am currently waiting on the 7052a chips to arrive .
Quote from: chptunes on February 12, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 01:30:30 PM
thank you
what is the purpose of the 8 ohm resistor in series with the speaker ?
A 16 Ohm load drops the wattage and current, keeping battery power feasable. This resistor should be rated at 1w or more [I used a 3w resistor].
wrt battery power, that resistor represents pure inefficient waste ...you're basically converting battery power into heat (disapated across the resistor) ....if you wanna preserve battery power properly - firstly, I'd argue you should simply steer clear of a BTL amp like the TDA7052A - you'd be far better off just reducing the output signal level into the speaker (e.g. by putting a 1M DC vol pot on pin 4 ...if it's a TDA052
A) or using a higher impedance speaker (therefore 16 ohms) or having some other input level control. The worst place to tackle this is inserting resistors on the output legs of the amp. That's akin to driving your car at full revs & then keeping your foot heavily on the brake to keep the speed down.
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 19, 2013, 04:07:40 PM
very nice , and too cute ! my mini noisey cricket is in a tin enclosure something like that . it oscillates like mad with a extra bass fuzz stage in there .
i like the idea of those cheap tin enclosures but man , drilling them is , well i just get very nervous !
i am currently waiting on the 7052a chips to arrive .
Thanks pal.. Drilling those tins is a little dicey...
Let us know how yours comes out. :)
Quote from: Gurner on February 19, 2013, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: chptunes on February 12, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 01:30:30 PM
thank you
what is the purpose of the 8 ohm resistor in series with the speaker ?
A 16 Ohm load drops the wattage and current, keeping battery power feasable. This resistor should be rated at 1w or more [I used a 3w resistor].
wrt battery power, that resistor represents pure inefficient waste ...you're basically converting battery power into heat (disapated across the resistor) ....if you wanna preserve battery power properly - firstly, I'd argue you should simply steer clear of a BTL amp like the TDA7052A - you'd be far better off just reducing the output signal level into the speaker (e.g. by putting a 1M DC vol pot on pin 4 ...if it's a TDA052A) or using a higher impedance speaker (therefore 16 ohms) or having some other input level control. The worst place to tackle this is inserting resistors on the output legs of the amp. That's akin to driving your car at full revs & then keeping your foot heavily on the brake to keep the speed down.
Thanks Gurner.. I suppose the DC Volume Pin does keep tabs on current draw pretty well. I'll measure current with and without the resistor...
@corey sweet...literally... 8) 8) 8)
I divorced the LM386. It just didnt work out for us. I told it that "it wasnt me, it was you" and it began to whine in that harsh trebly tone you may be familar with.
I dont know if i would do this, but i noticed that the TDA7052 has 2 outputs. Is this to drive 2 speakers? Is it ok to do this? Will the output power be 2 x 1/2 watt? (id imagine it would).
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 01:03:38 AM
I dont know if i would do this, but i noticed that the TDA7052 has 2 outputs. Is this to drive 2 speakers? Is it ok to do this? Will the output power be 2 x 1/2 watt? (id imagine it would).
No. The TDA7052 is a BTL (Bridge-tied load) amplifier. The two outputs are for connecting the speaker, only one. Check the datasheet.
tca
But, it will drive loads from 8 to 16 Ohm just fine. You could connect two speakers in series or parallel, as long as the total load stays within the correct range.
Two 4 Ohm or 8 Ohm speakers in series would be nice, or two 16 Ohm speakers in parallel.
Quote from: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 01:03:38 AM
I divorced the LM386.
You could try its big brother, the LM380. Some examples:
- Mark's miniamp: http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Miniamp.png
- or the Pygmy amp (http://home.comcast.net/~synthdoc/P/1750.pdf), needs a buffer...
Cheers.
To me, the LM386 sucks wolf's cookies in large order (I can't quite figure out the unbridled lurve for it round these parts....must be the plethora of '10 component circuits' that gets most into it - indeed every time I see one I think "Everybody was Kung-fu fighting")..
Personally, unless you wanna see your battery sucked dry in short order, for a TDA7052a IMHO it's better to go with a 16 Ohm speaker (or 2 x 8 Ohms speaker in series) ...or even higher.
Quote from: Gurner on February 26, 2013, 12:57:02 PM
To me, the LM386 sucks wolf's cookies in large order (I can't quite figure out the unbridled lurve for it round these parts....must be the plethora of '10 component circuits' that gets most into it - indeed every time I see one I think "Everybody was Kung-fu fighting")..
Personally, unless you wanna see your battery sucked dry in short order, for a TDA7052a IMHO it's better to go with a 16 Ohm speaker (or 2 x 8 Ohms speaker in series) ...or even higher.
My 'Snickers' Punch (pictured above) draws 11.6mA at full volume (500k on Pin 4, with an 8 Ohm speaker load).. 20-25mA peaks when attacking my guitar. How long would a fresh Alkaline run at 11.6mA.?..
Quote from: chptunes on February 26, 2013, 03:08:58 PM
My 'Snickers' Punch (pictured above) draws 11.6mA at full volume (500k on Pin 4, with an 8 Ohm speaker load).. 20-25mA peaks when attacking my guitar. How long would a fresh Alkaline run at 11.6mA.?..
I'd say there's an error in your measurement...the quiescent current of the TDA7052A will be 15mA alone (no sound & no speaker attached - see the datasheet quick reference data - http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/TDA7052A_AT.pdf ...and that's only at 6V supply) - let alone full volume with a speaker attached.
At 9V supply, with a BTL IC like the TDA7052A, you can potentially squeeze about 15V peak to peak (5.3V RMS) across the load ...& in this situation that's over 700mA running through the speaker ...a 9V alkaline battery would last something like 20 minutes with the amp running full tilt!
Quote from: tca on February 26, 2013, 08:58:12 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 01:03:38 AM
I divorced the LM386.
You could try its big brother, the LM380. Some examples:
- Mark's miniamp: http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Miniamp.png
- or the Pygmy amp (http://home.comcast.net/~synthdoc/P/1750.pdf), needs a buffer...
Cheers.
But TCA, why would i want to do that when your punch amp looks so much easier :D
My chips are on the way anyway, thanks for sharing the layout!
EDIT:
Quote from: tca on February 26, 2013, 03:38:10 AM
No. The TDA7052 is a BTL (Bridge-tied load) amplifier. The two outputs are for connecting the speaker, only one. Check the datasheet.
tca
It was the datasheet that i was looking at, rechecking it, not sure how i even came up with such a stupid question. Thanks again!
Paul
@Gurner
Hi man...long time no ?'s... ;D
which in your opinion would be the most efficient 9v battery amp ic then?..with an acceptable amount of vol...just curious.
rob
Quote from: deadastronaut on February 27, 2013, 04:27:47 AM
... the most efficient 9v battery amp ic then?..with an acceptable amount of vol...just curious.
That is in fact a VERY good question! I guess that requires some more research... probably a class d?!?
I power the PUNCH with a 9V transformer power source, never used batteries.
Cheers.
Quote from: Gurner on February 26, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
At 9V supply, with a BTL IC like the TDA7052A, you can potentially squeeze about 15V peak to peak (5.3V RMS) across the load ...& in this situation that's over 700mA running through the speaker ...a 9V alkaline battery would last something like 20 minutes with the amp running full tilt!
Ok. For battery operation you could reduce current consumption by reducing the volume resistor (pin 4 to ground) and get roughly the same output power as a lm386 (1/4W, 4mA typ. quiescent current) but with a much better frequency response.
Quote from: deadastronaut on February 27, 2013, 04:27:47 AM
@Gurner
Hi man...long time no ?'s... ;D
which in your opinion would be the most efficient 9v battery amp ic then?..with an acceptable amount of vol...just curious.
rob
Hi DA....I've not researched audio ICs wrt efficiency so can't really say.
BTW I wasn't saying the TDA7052A is any more or any less efficient than others (though in IMHO, most small audio ICs you see in stompbox type circuits are much of a muchness - if you seek efficiency, then a class D' audio IC is the way to go ....but try finding one of those puppies that you can solder easily in a through hole package!)...I was just pointing out that for battery purposes, at high volumes into an 8 ohm speaker, the TDA7052A will drain a 9V battery in very short order (cos like all BTL amplifiers it gives double the voltage swing across the speaker vs. a single ended amp like the LM386)
Quote from: deadastronaut on February 27, 2013, 04:27:47 AM
which in your opinion would be the most efficient 9v battery amp ic then?..with an acceptable amount of vol...just curious.
Found these two: TDA2822M and the NJM/JRC2073.
They are stereo but can be run on a BTL configuration. There are some refs here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=20509.0
Have to check for them in my local store, I will give it a try.
P.S. (edit)
They both have a typical 4mA of quiescent current, same as the LM386. ah, and the TBA820M same quiescent current but more power and a few more external components, probably not very battery friendly.
Quote from: Gurner on February 27, 2013, 05:46:47 AM
BTW I wasn't saying the TDA7052A is any more or any less efficient than others (though in IMHO, most small audio ICs you see in stompbox type circuits are much of a muchness - if you seek efficiency, then a class D' audio IC is the way to go ....but try finding one of those puppies that you can solder easily in a through hole package!)...I was just pointing out that for battery purposes, at high volumes into an 8 ohm speaker, the TDA7052A will drain a 9V battery in very short order (cos like all BTL amplifiers it gives double the voltage swing across the speaker vs. a single ended amp like the LM386)
So.. I did a real-world test.
I have built several Punch Amps.. they are fun to build and easy to apply in different situations. The Punch that I used for this test is on Perfboard, with an on-board 100k Volume Control (Trimmer).
Here are images of the test amp:
(http://s6.postimage.org/qw5gyulm9/My_Punch_R001_Perfboard_top_2013_02_20.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/w8ubcz9ip/1w_Punch_amp_PV_Cab_schematic_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
I opened a fresh Alkaline.. measured 9.48vDC. Connected the battery to my test amp, with Volume Trimmer set at 100k ['just above conversation-level' output with dry guitar (single-coils)]. Current draw at idle measured 10.7mA.
Played random notes/phrases/chords for approximately 5 minutes...
Inserted my AMZ Tweed Stack Preamp and enjoyed sweet overdriven tones for approximately 10 minutes...
Unplugged my guitar, but kept the guitar lead plugged in with the test amp still 'On'. Current draw measured 10.7mA.. went to bed...
Woke up after 7-7.5 hours, and measured voltage at 8.28vDC. Plugged my guitar in and enjoyed 'just above conversation-level' output for approximately 10 minutes...
Unplugged from test amp.
Conclusions: Into a 12 Ohm load, with 100k Ohms on Pin 4, battery power is very feasible for the purpose of casual 'living room' use and pedal auditioning. Don't leave it 'On' while you sleep. ;)
Food-For-Thought: My Punch still sounds fine at 8vDC.. the TDA7052A chip will operate down to 6vDC.
-Corey
i plan on building a few of these . one would definitely have to be be battery powered . i would like something mall for utility testing and monkeying around . i have some nicad "c" cell sized batterys from cordless drill packs , then also a few AA holders that would un up to 9 volts i think one that is 12 volts as well . i am thinking those AA would outlast a typical nine volter . for my larger battery amps i use sla 12 volt cells .
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6072/999un.jpg)
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5468/001tqo.jpg)
i wonder what chip the dano honey tone uses ...
oh look , how about that , a tda7052
http://music-electronics-forum.com/attachments/8184d1266908743-ht-circuit2.jpg
thank you for taking the time and effort to do that test sir ... i got a little nervous , now i feel a little better .
Quote from: chptunes on February 28, 2013, 08:14:20 AM
Conclusions: Into a 12 Ohm load, with 100k Ohms on Pin 4, battery power is very feasible for the purpose of casual 'living room' use and pedal auditioning. Don't leave it 'On' while you sleep. ;)
My earlier 'battery sump' warnings relate to the tda7052A at full output swing...i.e. full power (which on a 9V battery will see about 16Vpp across the speaker) ...without knowing what type of voltage levels you're experiencing across the load with a 100k on pin 4, it's difficult to predict how much stress there is on the battery. Also your 12 ohm speaker helps significantly (16 ohms is even better) ...but most will likely connect up an 8 Ohm speaker, which will see battery life reduced.
FWIW, you'll get approx 5 times longer battery life with 6 x AA acting as 9V (vs.a PP3 9V battery).
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 28, 2013, 12:53:58 PM
i wonder what chip the dano honey tone uses ...
oh look , how about that , a tda7052
http://music-electronics-forum.com/attachments/8184d1266908743-ht-circuit2.jpg
Oh, I didn't know that!
Cheers.
P.S.
The HoneyTone is powered by a 9V battery.
Just tested the TDA2822M, one channel, with the same power source that I use to power the PUNCH. The sound is similar, very clean and loud and overdrives nicely! Going to use the TDA2822M chip to make a stereo monitor for my PC. Even if one uses the TBA820M in bridge mode it still outnumbers the components of the PUNCH!
Cheers.
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 28, 2013, 12:53:58 PM
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5468/001tqo.jpg)
I like that cab! What is it? What is inside?
Quote from: Gurner on February 28, 2013, 01:12:00 PM
My earlier 'battery sump' warnings relate to the tda7052A at full output swing...i.e. full power (which on a 9V battery will see about 16Vpp across the speaker) ...without knowing what type of voltage levels you're experiencing across the load with a 100k on pin 4, it's difficult to predict how much stress there is on the battery. Also your 12 ohm speaker helps significantly (16 ohms is even better) ...but most will likely connect up an 8 Ohm speaker, which will see battery life reduced.
Just measured voltage across the 12 Ohm Load: 25.7mV DC.
> random notes/phrases/chords for approximately 5 minutes...
> overdriven tones for approximately 10 minutes...
> ..amp still 'On'. Current draw measured 10.7mA.. went to bed... 7-7.5 hours
> 'just above conversation-level' output for approximately 10 minutes...
I don't understand. 5+10+10 = just 25 minutes actual playing?
I wanna go way out in the woods and play all night. Hiking back to the house every hour or two for a new batt misses the point.
Another point: the 8 + 4 loading wastes 2/3rd of your precious power. It would be more efficient to change to 1/3rd the supply voltage: 3V battery.
Or, since 3V is "small" re: silicon drops, change from bridge loading to simple single-end at 6V.
______________________
> the most efficient 9v battery amp ic then?
"Efficient" battery audio requires you *define* your goals. (And don't pre-assume stuff like voltage.)
Maximum power must be *just barely enough* for your purpose. An efficient 1 Watt amp is a very inefficient 0.1 Watt amp. (This is where digital really helps, but is DIY-adverse.)
You don't hear Watts. You hear sound. The difference is the speaker. For a given sound level, an eight 12" stack needs a lot less power than a 3" toy-speaker. If serious about battery, start by being serious about speaker. (Yes, carrying a full-stack into the woods is awkward, I might prefer a smaller speaker and a pocketful of extra batts.)
THEN define a power level. For "kinda loud" in a small speaker, maybe over a Watt. For conversational level in a good efficient speaker, 0.1 Watts may be ample.
Right-sizing the amp is more important than trying different chips.
Right-sizing means being flexible about battery type.
Anyway C- and D-cells are MUCH more cost-effective than 9V batts. (I think 9V batts were promoted by the battery companies. A 4-AA pocket radio runs a long time, weak battery sales. 9V batts give just-tolerable life and frequent battery sales.)
________________________
The LM386 was a fine amp, but has fallen into the gutter of low-low-low-cost fabrication.
The LM380 has the "advantage" of being (AFAIK) discontinued, so the stock you find is from National circa 1978, good stuff.
Both are critical about layout and that R-C network on the output.
About the LM386 and the LM380...
Quote from: PRR on February 28, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Both are critical about layout and that R-C network on the output.
I've learned that the hard way!
Nice, I think i'll try to make one with the volume pot,
what jfet can i use in subtitute of the MPF 102 or 2N5457 ? they don't seems to be available anymore. :(
Quote from: quackounet on March 01, 2013, 07:55:05 AM
Nice, I think i'll try to make one with the volume pot,
what jfet can i use in subtitute of the MPF 102 or 2N5457 ? they don't seems to be available anymore. :(
I think the 2N5457 will work just fine.
Quote from: PRR on February 28, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
> random notes/phrases/chords for approximately 5 minutes...
> overdriven tones for approximately 10 minutes...
> ..amp still 'On'. Current draw measured 10.7mA.. went to bed... 7-7.5 hours
> 'just above conversation-level' output for approximately 10 minutes...
I don't understand. 5+10+10 = just 25 minutes actual playing?
I wanna go way out in the woods and play all night. Hiking back to the house every hour or two for a new batt misses the point.
Another point: the 8 + 4 loading wastes 2/3rd of your precious power. It would be more efficient to change to 1/3rd the supply voltage: 3V battery.
I'm up to about 40 min of play-time on the same battery now.. Those first sessions were only what I documented before and after leaving the amp 'On' for 7+ hours. I'll try to update this thread when this battery is exhausted.
I am wasting power intentionally, right.. to achieve a desired volume level. Makin' the Punch fit my needs.. Ya know. Should I feel guilty about wasting a few mV.?..
I don't like camping.
..and yes, the typical JFETs will work great. I use 2N5457 as much as possible.
Thank you, but it's the same for the 2N5457 (when i look on mouser), i'll try my luck in a local store :),
No other common jfet ?
Radio Shack sells MPF102. Small Bear sells J201 and 2N5457.
www.smallbearelec.com (http://www.smallbearelec.com)
Thank you, i'll order there then when i'll start it,
I order from europe so i always try to find common component in local store when i only need a few of them, with the additional vat and shipping fee it can be very expensive for only a few parts.. :/
Quote from: quackounet on March 01, 2013, 09:19:16 AM
Thank you, i'll order there then when i'll start it,
I order from europe so i always try to find common component in local store when i only need a few of them, with the additional vat and shipping fee it can be very expensive for only a few parts.. :/
Try http://www.musikding.de/
Thank you tca, i don't see them there, but they have other part i often need and shipping are really low, it'll be very handy :) thank again :)
Quote from: tca on February 28, 2013, 05:10:12 PM
Just tested the TDA2822M, one channel, with the same power source that I use to power the PUNCH. The sound is similar, very clean and loud and overdrives nicely! Going to use the TDA2822M chip to make a stereo monitor for my PC. Even if one uses the TBA820M in bridge mode it still outnumbers the components of the PUNCH!
Cheers.
Any chances of giving us a schematic for the TDA2822M circuit? I can't find the TDA7052 in my town, but they have the other one by the buckets.
I think for the power amps, the circuits are just being taken from the datasheet, i haven't checked back to see.
This one has examples for using it in stereo as well as bridged mono.
http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00000134.pdf
Here are my notes from late 2004, when I was looking for an improvement over the Ruby while retaining the option of battery power:
QuoteIC amp notes
Of the ICs offering approximately 1W output:
Headroom (best to worst)
TDA2822/TDA2003
- Ruby @ min. Gain -
TBA810
TDA7052
NJM2073
- Ruby @ max. Gain -
TBA820M
Volume (best to worst)
NJM2073
TDA2003
TBA810
TDA2822
TBA820M/TDA7052 (tied)
- Ruby -
Parts count (lowest to highest)
TDA2822/NJM2073 (pin-compatible)
TDA7052
- Ruby -
TBA810 (kit)
TDA2003 (kit)
TBA820M
Noise (lowest to highest)
TBA810
TDA2822/Ruby @ min. gain (tied)
TDA2003
TDA7052
NJM2073
TBA820M
Ghosting (least to most)
TBA810
TDA2822/Ruby (tied)
PART NUMBERS
Within these notes, the part number TDA2822M DIP-8 is referred to simply as TDA2822. The TDA2822 series is also also available in a DIP-14 package, with extra ground pins used for heat sinking. It is not known at this time whether the DIP-14 produces higher output with an identical circuit, but the datasheet does include 9v/8Ω specs that are not listed for the DIP-8.
POWER
Supply voltage: 12v (via filtered AC adapter)
When supply voltage was changed to 8-AA battery pack (measuring around 10.5v), a very slight decrease in background noise was noted.
Lower voltage power supplies were tested: 9v, 6v, 3v. At 9v, the volume was not much less, but headroom suffered. Distortion was noticeable when playing power chords with the neck pickup selected. 6v saw more distortion and a slight drop in output. A 3v supply provides only distorted low output.
Quiescent current draw is quite close for both ICs.
CIRCUIT
Standard FET buffer at circuit input with 10k-B pot (Volume) to 1k series resistance at IC input.
With identical test circuits, the NJM2073 is louder and seems to have more gain (presenting as distortion) when operated at the same volume setting as the TDA2822. More noise accompanies the increased output level of the NJM2073.
TDA2822 retains more headroom over range of Volume pot rotation than the NJM2073.
A simple low-pass filter was placed between the buffer output cap and the Volume pot. The filter has a knee of 5.3khZ.
Three different Zobel networks at the speaker output were tested, with no discernible difference.
12v is recommended for maximum headroom and output. I believe that as a 12v battery pack loses voltage, the output level will stay reasonably stable until 9v. Then, volume will drop and distortion will increase.
A faint distorted ghosting is noticeable as single notes decay with the TDA2822 The same phenomenon was noted with the Ruby. The TBA810 does not exhibit the ghosting. I cannot definitively state that this is a chip-related issue. The speaker may be playing a role here.
Here's the 2073/2822 circuit I worked with:
(http://runoffgroove.com/uber-ruby2.png)
Quote from: blackcorvo on March 01, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: tca on February 28, 2013, 05:10:12 PM
Just tested the TDA2822M, one channel, with the same power source that I use to power the PUNCH. The sound is similar, very clean and loud and overdrives nicely! Going to use the TDA2822M chip to make a stereo monitor for my PC. Even if one uses the TBA820M in bridge mode it still outnumbers the components of the PUNCH!
Cheers.
Any chances of giving us a schematic for the TDA2822M circuit? I can't find the TDA7052 in my town, but they have the other one by the buckets.
Just use the schematic from the datasheet and add the buffer.
Cheers.
Quote from: B Tremblay on March 01, 2013, 12:18:17 PM
Here are my notes from late 2004, when I was looking for an improvement over the Ruby while retaining the option of battery power..
Thanks for sharing your notes.
Hey guys, i BB the punch a few nights ago and it sounded great! The only problem is its pretty quiet. I didnt have time to check over my layout but im 99% sure it was ok. Anyway, i recorded a video of it if your interested in hearing it. Its really easy and there are no oscillolation issues like the LM386 (amongst others :))
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on March 08, 2013, 04:54:47 AM
The only problem is its pretty quiet. I didnt have time to check over my layout but im 99% sure it was ok.
It should not be so quiet and it is too dirty for my ears. Are you using a fresh battery? Did you try a 9V transformer?
Quote from: tca on March 08, 2013, 05:55:38 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on March 08, 2013, 04:54:47 AM
The only problem is its pretty quiet. I didnt have time to check over my layout but im 99% sure it was ok.
It should not be so quiet and it is too dirty for my ears. Are you using a fresh battery? Did you try a 9V transformer?
Hmmm, thats weird. Ill check it over again when i get some time and see if there are any errors. I slapped it together quickyl, its a bit mental at my house at the moment, probably stuffed something up.
Paul
Cool vid.. I'm not surprised by the low output. The TDA7052A chip is quieter than the TDA7052 chip. I love it's output level.. just perfect for the living room/bed room.
But, mine does sound a lot cleaner than yours. With just a dry guitar plugged in, mine stays clean'ish. What speaker did you use for that vid? Maybe some of that saturation is the speaker.?..
-Corey
Quote from: chptunes on March 08, 2013, 06:20:24 PM
Cool vid.. I'm not surprised by the low output. The TDA7052A chip is quieter than the TDA7052 chip. I love it's output level.. just perfect for the living room/bed room.
But, mine does sound a lot cleaner than yours. With just a dry guitar plugged in, mine stays clean'ish. What speaker did you use for that vid? Maybe some of that saturation is the speaker.?..
-Corey
Hey Corey! Hmm, so it might be the right level...i forgot to show the speaker in the video but its basically just a 6inch 8 ohm hifi speaker. Im pretty sure i had it in series with another hifi speaker (could have been about 5 inch if i had to guess.
Prehaps mine was dirtier then yours because of the guitar pick ups? My guitar is a gibson sg. I wouldnt say they are very high output pick ups but they have a bit of punch.
The output is good dont get me wrong. I can pretty much crank it and not wake up my baby boy :D
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on March 08, 2013, 09:11:15 PM
My guitar is a gibson sg. I wouldnt say they are very high output pick ups but they have a bit of punch.
I guess this is the reason why!
You must try and power it with a 9V transformer... that will awake up your family!
Nice vid.
Cheers.
Quote from: tca on March 09, 2013, 04:48:16 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on March 08, 2013, 09:11:15 PM
My guitar is a gibson sg. I wouldnt say they are very high output pick ups but they have a bit of punch.
I guess this is the reason why!
You must try and power it with a 9V transformer... that will awake up your family!
Nice vid.
Cheers.
I agree with tca. My Esquire has a traditional single-coil in the bridge.
Your level would be louder with a single 8 Ohm loudspeaker, like a 10" or 12" Celestion or Weber.
With a big speaker, I hear less saturation and more headroom.
-Corey
Quote from: chromesphere on March 08, 2013, 09:11:15 PM
Prehaps mine was dirtier then yours because of the guitar pick ups? My guitar is a gibson sg. I wouldnt say they are very high output pick ups but they have a bit of punch.
The output is good dont get me wrong. I can pretty much crank it and not wake up my baby boy :D
So is it still dirty when you roll down the SG's vol pot?
depending where the DC vol pin resistance is set, there could be up to 60x voltage gain (i.e. the maximum voltage gain for the TDA7052A)
At 9V you can work on the TDA7052A outputting about 7.4V clean.
therefore 7.4/60 = 123mV ....anything about that voltage arriving at the TDA7052A input will clip (which is just about all guitars on the initial pluck)
Hey guys! TCA the voltage into the punch was from a 9v power pack, so i think we are good there.
Thats why i mentioned the SG (could have been a stronger output signal). I'll have to try rolling off the volume and checking the voltage on the volume control pin as well, not sure when thats going to happen at the moment though as things are a bit unsettled at our house at the moment.
Anyway, i might not retire this one yet and mess around with it some more when i get sometime.
Paul
Just a follow up on this. Had a few mins to mess around with it this afternoon. Firstly i had a 47nf cap instead of 4.7nf in the input. didnt make much difference, but removed some muddyness.
I wanted to see if increaseing the voltage to 12v would give some more volume so i added a couple of aa batteries in series. With the extra 3v's its much better imo. sounds much punchier, pun intended :D
I think im going to power this thing on 12v's. It sounds much better imo! Give it a try!
Oh yeah, and decreasing the vol on the guitar cleans up the output, so its a matter of extra signal into the chip thats clipping it.
Paul
So I decided to have another crack at the pump amp. Built up the vero and I think it was working ok. Housed it in a small tin. That's when I started to lose my mind. Im getting a rustling noise. its pretty random, but I can make it happen when I shake the tin. Also the output is very muffled. And when I turn my guitar volume on, on the last, approx, 5% of the turn there is a large volume on the speaker (so much that you can see it move out quite dramatically). DC on the speaker?
If I use my power filter with the dc adapter, I just get this bup bup bup bup bup sound. I have to turn the volume down to about 10% on the punch amp before I can hear anything that sounds like guitar. Same with a battery.
I have checked it over a million times...it looks like its wired up fine....?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Paul
Check the connection of the jack of the speaker, it must be isolated from ground. It SHOULD NOT be connected to ground, this is a BTL amp. It does get hot if one of the outputs (pin 5 or 8 ) is connected to ground? Check the temperature of the chip (use your finger ;) ). In cases like this, the chip may be destroyed. You should compare with a fresh one.
Cheers.
In frustration I pulled it out of the tin. (definitely not connected to ground now!) still had the same problem. The chip doesn't get hot.
I thinking all the strange noises are coming from my guitar. They get worse on the quieter pick up them they do on the stronger pick up nup it crackles even without anything connected!
Heres voltages of the chip and jfet:
1 - 9.07v
2 - 2.51
3 - 0
4 - 1.1
5 - 4.4
6 - 0
7 - 0
8 - 4.4
g 1.7
s 9v
d 1.3v
This is on max volume (500k)
it crackles and pops...like cocoa pops :|
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 07:13:36 AM
g 1.7
s 9v
d 1.3v
That can not be right! Drain should be 9V and Gate 0V (1M to ground)?
P.S.
Pot volume?!?!? Are using the TDA7052 chip? Or the TDA7052A...?
hmmm...maybe the transistor is knackered!
Yep, its the 7052A
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 07:44:07 AM
hmmm...maybe the transistor is knackered!
Yep, its the 7052A
Paul
Or badly connected (check pins labels). Are you using chptunes TDA7052A version?
(http://s6.postimage.org/w8ubcz9ip/1w_Punch_amp_PV_Cab_schematic_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Yeah, using this one except without the resistor on the load (added the resistor made no difference really).
Is this enough to fill in our classroom (about one normal living room) and the gymnasium in our school (yeah i know it's big but we're just few people gathering for a bible study)
And is this transparent? I mean very clean?
Sorry for many postings
Sorry for many postings
Is this enough to fill in our classroom (about one normal living room) and the gymnasium in our school (yeah i know it's big but we're just few people gathering for a bible study)
And is this transparent? I mean very clean?
Quote from: Rock_on on July 08, 2013, 08:59:52 AM
Is this enough to fill in our classroom (about one normal living room) and the gymnasium in our school (yeah i know it's big but we're just few people gathering for a bible study)
And is this transparent? I mean very clean?
It is very clean if you power it with a wall wart.
I think it will work in a classroom nicely. I guess the gym is just a gathering place, all of you will be closed packed around near the amp, it would work too.
Cheers.
P.S.
Please try to avoid repeated posts.
How is it working with a 100k linear pot for the volume control? The datasheet calls for a 1M ohm pot. Just wondering.
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 08:11:20 AM
(http://s6.postimage.org/w8ubcz9ip/1w_Punch_amp_PV_Cab_schematic_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Hey Electron,
I didnt design that schematic check back at, i think its on page 4.
I was going to ask, anyone know if you can replace that 2n5457 with a j201 and the buffer will still work? I think i read ages ago, you can essenitally use any jfet for a buffer?
I'm going to try replacing that transistor tonight. I know that for about 5-10 secs i reverse polaritied the circuit. Wondering if i blew it. Everything was going so well...not sure how i managed to mess up something so simple, so serverly :)
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
Hey Electron,
I didnt design that schematic check back at, i think its on page 4.
OK, but have you built it with the 100k linear pot? If so, I'm just wondering how it worked for you.
Quote from: Electron Tornado on July 08, 2013, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
Hey Electron,
I didnt design that schematic check back at, i think its on page 4.
OK, but have you built it with the 100k linear pot? If so, I'm just wondering how it worked for you.
LOL forgot to mention that! :) I used a 500k linear pot for mine, what i had lying around. I think you might get extra volume with a 1meg pot. Not sure why the schematic has 100k? Maybe 100k+ distorts...idk...but im pretty sure you want an log pot anyway, not a linear.
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 09:08:45 PM
LOL forgot to mention that! :) I used a 500k linear pot for mine, what i had lying around.
OK, thanks. I was just wondering. I built one using a 1M log pot: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100717.msg911855#msg911855 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100717.msg911855#msg911855)
It works well, but I think it will sound better with a preamp, although my first try at a preamp sounded awful. The chip gets mighty hot, though, so it's got a heat sink.
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
I know that for about 5-10 secs i reverse polaritied the circuit. Wondering if i blew it.
Yes!
The repeated postings are caused by a bug in my phone
When i selected post it would load then sometimes the wifi will turned off causing the page not to load to the new page which would make me click the post again
Quote from: tca on July 09, 2013, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on July 08, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
I know that for about 5-10 secs i reverse polaritied the circuit. Wondering if i blew it.
Yes!
Replaced it. Bang, we're back in business.
So here's my REAL REVIEW of the punch amp. Now that I have one actually working properly.
I've learnt a valuable lesson about power and speakers. 1watt can drive 2x12inch loudspeakers. The speakers have a huge bearing on how much volume you can get out of an amp. I was getting a decent output from just a 6inch hifi speaker (in a cabinet), decided to plug it into my 2x12 fender twin (70's not a reissue) and...what can I say? Its "I need to turn this down cause my ears hurt" loud.
Its very clean and has quite a pleasing tone. I would be happy to practice with this amp any time!
Thank you TCA for sharing this, you've turned my unhappy amp experience into a good one!
Paul
^ I'm glad you like your build! It is a wonderful little amp.
Quote from: chromesphere on July 09, 2013, 07:32:29 AM
So here's my REAL REVIEW of the punch amp. Now that I have one actually working properly.
I've learnt a valuable lesson about power and speakers. 1watt can drive 2x12inch loudspeakers. The speakers have a huge bearing on how much volume you can get out of an amp. I was getting a decent output from just a 6inch hifi speaker (in a cabinet), decided to plug it into my 2x12 fender twin (70's not a reissue) and...what can I say? Its "I need to turn this down cause my ears hurt" loud.
Its very clean and has quite a pleasing tone. I would be happy to practice with this amp any time!
Thank you TCA for sharing this, you've turned my unhappy amp experience into a good one!
Paul
I have an old Crate 2x12 open-back cab. With a quiet drummer I can get by using a 1/2W Noisy Cricket derivative on 9V power.
With a loud drummer, I need to switch to at least my 150W amp and turn it up most of the way. :icon_eek:
Quote from: earthtonesaudio on July 09, 2013, 10:18:16 AM
I have an old Crate 2x12 open-back cab. With a quiet drummer I can get by using a 1/2W Noisy Cricket derivative on 9V power.
With a loud drummer, I need to switch to at least my 150W amp and turn it up most of the way. :icon_eek:
lol, yeah I don't think its going to replace my bad cat or fender twin as far as volume goes, but im totally amazed how much volume you can get out of 9v's an IC and 5-6 components. I was quite shocked! I'd read about this sort of stuff a million times but yeah...just didn't expect it to be so loud! You could seriously annoy the neighbours with this, its bloody loud! Great stuff!
Paul
So ive spent more time with the punch amp.
I left out the 8 ohm resistor on the speaker load but then started to worry if that might damage my fender twins speakers. I added it in, and it might be my imagination, but I think its even louder!? Would that actually happen? more resistance = more voltage?
Also I found adding me GE7 eq at the front of it made it sound even better, to the point that I would have trouble telling the difference between this thing and a store bought amp. When I finished playing it tonight I reached behind my fender twin to turn it off! lol An eq is essential if you ask me. Also tweaking an eq can give you even more volume on the output to the point that I cant turn it over 1/3 volume before it starts to get uncomfortable to sit directly infront of the amp!
I'm still totally shocked at how awesome an amp you can build with 6 components.
Huge success! If your reading the thread thinking about building one (your first amp perhaps?) do it! Just have a good set of speakers or speaker in a cabinet and an eq ready and you will get the full potential out of this little puppy :)
Paul
^ I'm glad you like it. Has you said, the speaker has an enormous influence on the final tone. Your entries made me think that I should do an upgrade to the PUNCH by adding a volume and tone control. Nothing fancy. Using the TDA7052 but with a Tweed Princeton-style single tone control and current feedback to increase the output impedance of the amp.
Cheers.
Pretty sure the (A) suffix of TDA7052A is the volume control option and is really easy to implement. CHPTunes on page 4 has a schematic with it on it already.
A tone control is essential. I've recorded a video of this little beast for my YouTube channel twice now, each time I finalise it I discover something that improves the sound further. The EQ is the next 'upgrade'. The amp sounds a bit dull / flat without it. Increasing the top end with my GE7 makes this thing sound deceptively like a real store bought amp. its amazing....! I've only ever built a ruby and this amp so I'm no expert on these small scale / 9v amps but I have a pretty good ear, and I think it sounds incredibly good....and that's not even taking into account this thing costs under 10 dollars and consists of about 8 components!
So yeah, if your going to implement a tone control, one that can boost the treble is what you'd want imo! It sounds out of this world when you brighten it up!
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 10, 2013, 08:11:46 AM
The EQ is the next 'upgrade'. The amp sounds a bit dull / flat without it.
(...)
So yeah, if your going to implement a tone control, one that can boost the treble is what you'd want imo! It sounds out of this world when you brighten it up!
The current feedback will take care of that dullness!
Cheers.
Quote from: tca on July 10, 2013, 08:25:07 AM
The current feedback will take care of that dullness!
to a degree - dependent on speaker response? and input, of course.
Question. What's current Feedback? :D
Quote from: chromesphere on July 10, 2013, 08:37:03 AM
Question. What's current Feedback? :D
See http://www.thatraymond.com/downloads/solidstate_guitar_amplifiers_teemu_kyttala_v1.0.pdf pg.87
Quote from: tca on July 10, 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on July 10, 2013, 08:37:03 AM
Question. What's current Feedback? :D
See http://www.thatraymond.com/downloads/solidstate_guitar_amplifiers_teemu_kyttala_v1.0.pdf pg.87
I was hoping for an answer in 10 words or less :D Thanks for the link. Looks like an interesting read!
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on July 10, 2013, 06:15:51 PM
I was hoping for an answer in 10 words or less :D
resistor from speaker output goes to feedback input.
how's eight?
^ that's ten ;)
Well done artifus! Now all I have to do is understand it :D
Paul
http://www.current-drive.info/9 (http://www.current-drive.info/9)
Had a very BRIEF read of both links, thank you both.
So would adding a negative feedback resistor somewhere help brighten things up? Probably totally misreading this.
Paul
> I left out the 8 ohm resistor on the speaker load but then started to worry if that might damage my fender twins speakers.
No way it can hurt a Twin's beefy speakers.
> I added it in, and it might be my imagination, but I think its even louder!? Would that actually happen? more resistance = more voltage?
If the speaker were a pure 8 ohm resistance, with-resistor puts half-voltage and quarter-power to the speaker.
However an "8 ohm" speaker is 40+ ohms near your lowest note, 16++ ohms above your highest fret-note (in string harmonics). So while you may have less overall, you get full volume in two important areas: thump and zizz. This may impress the ear more.
Also: connected straight the amplifier damps-out some of the stray flaps and cone-tone of the speaker. With 8 ohms in series, the damping is much less. Do drummers still put their wallet on a too-busy snare drum head? The amplifier can do a similar thing; with extra resistance, it does it less. Good Twin speakers are designed/selected for "interesting" cone-tones. You may like it better with less damping.
FWIW, the classic older Fenders had output resistance similar to speaker impedance.
Some old tube amps had no feedback. With pentodes (6L6 EL84 etc) the output resistance could be 5X or 10X the speaker nominal impedance. I had such a VT40 with some lively speakers in a combo-cab designed for this amp, and I never had an urge to change that sound.
> current feedback to increase the output impedance of the amp.
That works too. And avoids the power loss in a build-out resistor.
At the 20W level, that lost power is significant. Some chip-based commercial amps use current feedback to raise output resistance and reduce damping. However designing a STABLE current-feedback loop can be difficult.
At the 1 Watt level, it isn't a big deal. We over-build the amp a bit, add a 25 cent resistor, it's un-damped and no heavy thinking needed.
Hey sir! Can you make A Super Punch?
Hahaha i mean make it 2-3W to rock thy neighbors \m/
Forgot to respond! Thank you PRR for your detailed explanation. It seems that RL was really doing nothing interesting but decreasing the output so i removed it.
@Rock_on - If your punch amp is set up anything like mine (EQ -> punch -> twin 2 x 12's) you wont need a super punch. Seriously this thing is loud enough with this particular set up to annoy the neighbours at half volume. No i dont live in an apartment. Its mental loud for what it is!
The only complaint with the punch that i have is gain pedals. It just doesnt seem to reproduce them well. As far as clean goes, i would use this any day of the week! Outstanding clean tone for something so simple. I have a few videos in the upload queue i will upload soon.
So glad i revisited this one!
Cheers,
Paul
^ The only complaint with the punch that i have is gain pedals. It just doesnt seem to reproduce them well.
Yes and no... the biggest problem with this type of chip amps is the low
amplitude input voltage that it can take (can't find that value on the datasheet
for the TDA7052). If you feed the amp with a hot signal it will start to clip,
and it does not sound good. This is a case where a passive volume control
(between the buffer and the amp) would improve that. This is not a PUNCH
specific problem it will happen with any amp, but specially with chip amps.
For instance, the LM380 has an input voltage limited to +-0.5V, the only way of
making it full proof is to put some schottky diodes to ground at the
input. Otherwise you have to adjust the amplitude of your input signal.
> have a few videos in the upload queue i will upload soon.
:icon_biggrin:
Cheers.
P.S.
My strat can give up to 200mV with a chord, and 50mV to 100mV for a single note
(depending on the string). Gain is limited to 2.5 for the LM380! This is the
reason why you can take almost any chip add a buffer and make a guitar amp!
P.P.S.
Can you explain that: "It just doesnt seem to reproduce them well." in more
detail?
Is it clipping or freq response?
i'm still reading along.. love my Punch amps.
:)
Hey TCA.
I think you explained the problem. Could be the input limit of the TDA7052? It sounds a bit broken up..sort of...Gain pedals just don't sound clear or as good as clean (which sounds freaking superb!). It could be clipping. Do you guys noticed any issues with distortions / fuzzes etc?
Paul
Quote from: tca on July 19, 2013, 04:13:56 AM
... the biggest problem with this type of chip amps is the low
amplitude input voltage that it can take (can't find that value on the datasheet
for the TDA7052). If you feed the amp with a hot signal it will start to clip,
and it does not sound good.
You can work sort of work backwards, the TDA7052 datasheet gives the voltage gain in db (39db), which is about 90x.
On a 9V supply, the largest signal you can reasonably expect to get out of the amp is about 7.5V peak to peak.
Therefore 7.5V/90 means that anything over (approx) 83mV will start clipping ....which isn't particularly hot at all! (though it probably won't sound objectionable until the signal gets hotter, resulting in more 'squaring').
If you use two 9V batteries in series to give an 18V supply (which the TDA7052 can run at), you'll be able to run a lot cleaner signal through before clipping kicks in ...but the IC will get nuclear hot if you feed to hot a signal into it! (& you'll spend most of you salary on PP3 batteries!)
In my opinion a TDA7052
A is a better choice as it has a DC vol control which reigns in the gain & will allow a far cleaner signal through. As an aside, using two 8 ohm speakers in series, will result in less heat stress on the IC (which being BTL can get darned hot at 8 ohms) & much longer battery life (but less power output). I used to be quite keen on the TDA7052A (& indeed it's a far better chip than the over used LM386), but comparing the scoped output to a fully differential input audio AMP IC ...sees the TDA7052A a fair bit noisier on the trace (like for like)...of course whether you can hear this scoped noise is debatable.....
^ You can work sort of work backwards...
Of course... I forgot to do that! Thanks.
I wanted to thank the OP for such a simple and fantastic circuit
however, we got some troubles :-\
was it just bad luck or the TDA7052 is reeeeeally sensitive and prone to blow up?
i just tested mine on breadboard, worked like a charm, i used it to amplify my sony erickson and theres lots of volume and it clearly can deliver the EQ i set on my phone (including clear sub bass). then i soldered it and set it up on a copper strip, and it didnt work. insisted a lot, but nothing happened. threw it back to the breadboard, and it wouldnt work anymore.... so, does this chip need extremely caring handling? cheers
i've soldered several TDA7052A chips (no sockets).. without any trouble. Like with all chips, I'm careful to not heat them up too long.
Try another one.. perhaps with a socket this time.
Quote from: chptunes on July 26, 2013, 04:53:14 AM
i've soldered several TDA7052A chips (no sockets).. without any trouble. Like with all chips, I'm careful to not heat them up too long.
Try another one.. perhaps with a socket this time.
i socketed it. so its not a feeble IC, im puzzled now
however i didnt use the "A" version, i used the TDA7052
Hi!
did anyone add a headphone jack to this schematic?
Quote from: zedsnotdead on August 01, 2013, 10:48:34 AM
Hi!
did anyone add a headphone jack to this schematic?
Anticipating an answer to this question, great idea!
Quote from: nordine on July 26, 2013, 01:33:18 PM
however i didnt use the "A" version, i used the TDA7052
"A" version is for the volume pot. If you don't use the "A' pretty sure you have to leave off the volume pot.
Well, already searched for an answer, but i can't find a solution for a BTL configuration... just found schemetics only for single ended (I think=) a headphone jack using the negative ground of speaker and such.
Really, does anyone have any idea how to do this? Please?
If I decided to connect my headphones to the output of the punch amp, would I kill them?
The datasheet for the tda7052a says this:
Missing Current Limiter (MCL)
A MCL protection circuit is built-in. The MCL circuit is
activated when the difference in current between the
output terminal of each amplifier exceeds 100 mA (typical
300 mA). This level of 100 mA allows for headphone
applications (single-ended).
Which suggests to me the chip will adjust the current on the output depending on the load, but i'm not willing to risk my headphones for it :)
Paul
Since I have worked with both the tda7052a and the tda2822m chips I figured I would just point something out that seems to have gone unnoticed. The 7052a is only specc'ed for a 6V supply when connected to an 8ohm load. Maybe that's why some of you have had the chip fail.
It was also mentioned that the 2822m had some ghosting but the person also said he was using a 12v supply on a load ranging from 4 to 16 ohm. The max supply on a 4 ohm load for this chip is less than 5v. For an 8ohm load the max supply is 6V and 16ohm takes a 9v supply.
Hope this helps someone.
Has anyone tried running one of these with a 6 volt battery? I wonder how long one of those batteries would last. Oh, and I mean a flashlight battery or whatever, not an automotive battery (though an automotive battery might be an idea...)..
Hey,
I've been messing around with this on a perfboard, and i can indeed tell you it works well with headphones.
Here is a schematic of the variant i built:
http://imgur.com/URTeFuF (http://imgur.com/URTeFuF)
Tried with both and without R1 on headphones and speakers, and well, for headphones i didn't even notice any difference in signal strength.
Hey Smurf, good to hear (headphones). Did you adjust anything to use headphones with your vero layout, or is it the same as CHPTunes schematic? Would be really handy to be able to connect headphones to it. Might just have to watch the volume output.
Paul
Ah, yes, it's the chptunes schematic exactly, just lost the reference to who made it, i will add credit if i publish the vero layout futher. i think its the chip's limiter doing its job that makes it.
we don't have j201 and mpf102 here.. 2n5458 only, what would I change to make it work?
Hello everybody! Newbie needing help!
I've chosen the Punch Amp to be my first DIY project, and I actually think I was successful since I had never used a soldering iron before, but the thing is the amp is not working (as expected from a newbie!)...
I believe that my PCB is doing fine 'cause I tested all the tracks with the multimeter. I also checked if there is any voltage going to the speaker and that seams to be fine too...
So, it would help me a lot if you could share some experience about where I must start the debugging. I have to admit that I don't have a clue about this.
Oh, and by the way, my best regards to TCA who made this circuit and to Chromespherecom, who's made a video!
Regards,
Sergio
> I must start the debugging. I have to admit that I don't have a clue
http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging
Yeah unfortunately, some basic troubleshooting is probably needed. Check there are no solder bridges between joints, component values are correct, etc. Also you said 'pcb'. Which pcb are you using? A piece of vero or something you etched / designed yourself?
This thread doesnt get alot of attention but if you want you can post your voltages. Someone might be able to point out a problem.
Paul
Quote from: Rock_on on September 11, 2013, 04:06:28 AM
we don't have j201 and mpf102 here.. 2n5458 only, what would I change to make it work?
Nothing. Just try it.
@ PRR and Chromesphere, thanks a lot for your answers. I'll follow the guide that PRR posted and, if not successful, I'll share with you guys the voltages of my circuit.
By the way, I made my pcb from the sketch tca published. Used glossy paper and the transfer was great. All the tracks are functioning.
Regards,
Sergio
Quote from: S_DANILO on September 22, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Hello everybody! Newbie needing help!
I've chosen the Punch Amp to be my first DIY project, and I actually think I was successful since I had never used a soldering iron before, but the thing is the amp is not working (as expected from a newbie!)...
What is the chip that you are using TDA7052 or TDA7052
A?
Quote from: tca on September 23, 2013, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: S_DANILO on September 22, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Hello everybody! Newbie needing help!
I've chosen the Punch Amp to be my first DIY project, and I actually think I was successful since I had never used a soldering iron before, but the thing is the amp is not working (as expected from a newbie!)...
What is the chip that you are using TDA7052 or TDA7052A?
I'm actually using the TDA7052
B
Quote from: S_DANILO on September 23, 2013, 02:49:08 PM
I'm actually using the TDA7052B
Funny ;D
That is the problem: the TDA7052B also has DC volume control! Can't see the differences between version A and B?!? Have to check the datasheet.
Cheers.
P.S. (edit)
More gain for the A, less noise... I'm guessing but it seems that the A version is a "deluxe" B version ;).
Didnt even know there was a B!!
Are you sure you havent messed up your layout Danilo? You said your new to this. That would be the biggest margin for error and most likely cause if you ask me.
Paul
Just downloaded the B version datasheet and saw the DC volume... Thanks for the input Tiago!
As Paul suspected, I have also committed a few other "crimes" when I was assembling it, so I'll just buy a vero board and start all over again.
Anyway, I have to mention that I really enjoyed to do this project, even that it didn't work... :)
Thanks a lot for all the help you guys provided!
Cheers
Sergio
Quoteso I'll just buy a vero board and start all over again.
Etching is easier than vero. Perf is easier than vero. Proto-board is easier than vero. Point-to-point is easier than vero. Anything is easier than vero! ;) Seriously, some people here are wizards with the stuff, but it's really easy to get a solder bridge over a strand of copper flailing astray from drilling the 'cuts', among other reasons. It's never too soon to start trying to make your own PCBs. Or leave those leads on and start perfing.
Quote from: garcho on September 24, 2013, 12:36:55 AM
Quoteso I'll just buy a vero board and start all over again.
Etching is easier than vero. Perf is easier than vero. Proto-board is easier than vero. Point-to-point is easier than vero. Anything is easier than vero! ;) Seriously, some people here are wizards with the stuff, but it's really easy to get a solder bridge over a strand of copper flailing astray from drilling the 'cuts', among other reasons. It's never too soon to start trying to make your own PCBs. Or leave those leads on and start perfing.
@garcho, thanks a lot for the input!
Cheers.
Sergio
Quote from: S_DANILO on September 23, 2013, 09:03:48 PM
I have to mention that I really enjoyed to do this project, even that it didn't work... :)
Cheers
Sergio
thats the spirit.. 8)
you'll get there in the end.. ;)
Hi.. I'm looking to make this project (on vero) with a couple of bookshelf speakers I've got lying around. But a couple of questions still (having read through the entire thread)
a) How would I incorporate the volume and tone control to this circuit? (Edit: I found this variant - http://i.imgur.com/URTeFuF.png?1 (http://i.imgur.com/URTeFuF.png?1) which has a volume pot - could I simply add a tone pot like the one in a guitar setup, with a cap going to ground? If so, which values?)
b) Did anyone figure out how to add a headphone output as well?
Thanks!
Hey, the volume control is a feature of the tda7052a <-- note the a suffix, and is connected to pin 4 of the chip. The tda7052 doesnt have a volume control so make sure you get the right one.
Only thing i could think of for tone control is an input cap blend tone control.
for the headphones, no special requirement. Just plug them in. Pretty sure the MCL feature of the chip automatically adjusts its current when headphones are plugged in. I should say, i have tested it and its fine with my set up.
Hope that helps.
Paul
Is the TDA7052 pretty common? Mouser only has the surface mount version. Should probably check mammoth and i see if they carry them....
You can get them on ebay if you get stuck. Just make sure you get the TDA7052A if you want the volume control option.
quick ?
will this kill a 9v battery..or 6 x 1.5 AA's rapidly?...anyone tried it yet?.
i just fancy a seperate little amp to go with my roland micro cube...so i can jam to backing tracks when camping, holiday etc..
my roland lasts up to 20 hours on 6 AA's.. :icon_eek:
so just wondered how this would fair
Someone was saying the punch amp ran down quickly because it should be ran at 6v instead of 9v. Might be worth giving it a test run? Havent ran mine on batteries so no idea.
Concerning the use of a 9v Battery.. I documented a little experiment, back on page 4 of this thread. This little Perfboard Punch remains in the corner of my Family Room.. I use it for unscripted jams every week.. original battery still installed.
Here is the quoted reply:
Quote from: chptunes on February 28, 2013, 08:14:20 AM
Quote from: Gurner on February 27, 2013, 05:46:47 AM
BTW I wasn't saying the TDA7052A is any more or any less efficient than others (though in IMHO, most small audio ICs you see in stompbox type circuits are much of a muchness - if you seek efficiency, then a class D' audio IC is the way to go ....but try finding one of those puppies that you can solder easily in a through hole package!)...I was just pointing out that for battery purposes, at high volumes into an 8 ohm speaker, the TDA7052A will drain a 9V battery in very short order (cos like all BTL amplifiers it gives double the voltage swing across the speaker vs. a single ended amp like the LM386)
So.. I did a real-world test.
I have built several Punch Amps.. they are fun to build and easy to apply in different situations. The Punch that I used for this test is on Perfboard, with an on-board 100k Volume Control (Trimmer).
Here are images of the test amp:
(http://s6.postimage.org/qw5gyulm9/My_Punch_R001_Perfboard_top_2013_02_20.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
(http://s6.postimage.org/w8ubcz9ip/1w_Punch_amp_PV_Cab_schematic_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
I opened a fresh Alkaline.. measured 9.48vDC. Connected the battery to my test amp, with Volume Trimmer set at 100k ['just above conversation-level' output with dry guitar (single-coils)]. Current draw at idle measured 10.7mA.
Played random notes/phrases/chords for approximately 5 minutes...
Inserted my AMZ Tweed Stack Preamp and enjoyed sweet overdriven tones for approximately 10 minutes...
Unplugged my guitar, but kept the guitar lead plugged in with the test amp still 'On'. Current draw measured 10.7mA.. went to bed...
Woke up after 7-7.5 hours, and measured voltage at 8.28vDC. Plugged my guitar in and enjoyed 'just above conversation-level' output for approximately 10 minutes...
Unplugged from test amp.
Conclusions: Into a 12 Ohm load, with 100k Ohms on Pin 4, battery power is very feasible for the purpose of casual 'living room' use and pedal auditioning. Don't leave it 'On' while you sleep. ;)
Food-For-Thought: My Punch still sounds fine at 8vDC.. the TDA7052A chip will operate down to 6vDC.
-Corey
cool....sounds good to me then, , cheers, 8)
Quote from: chromesphere on September 30, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
Hey, the volume control is a feature of the tda7052a <-- note the a suffix, and is connected to pin 4 of the chip. The tda7052 doesnt have a volume control so make sure you get the right one.
Only thing i could think of for tone control is an input cap blend tone control.
for the headphones, no special requirement. Just plug them in. Pretty sure the MCL feature of the chip automatically adjusts its current when headphones are plugged in. I should say, i have tested it and its fine with my set up.
Hope that helps.
Paul
Thanks for that Paul!
*googles "input cap blend tone control"* ;D
Cheers.
Quote from: therealfindo on October 01, 2013, 04:45:45 PM
Thanks for that Paul!
*googles "input cap blend tone control"* ;D
Cheers.
YOu can see an example here (the 'blend' control):
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ff5_sc_easy.pdf?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a
easy to implement just make sure you put the lower and higher values around the right way otherwise the control will have no effect.
Paul
here's my enclousure... abs plastic, aluminium tape covered inside.. (http://24.media.tumblr.com/1c2d851b84bf606dfc8403d501fd759e/tumblr_msyva1GXIi1r1qbzzo1_1280.jpg)
I like it, it's a bit "thin" when it comes to the sound, but it's awesome. I guess the 5w Sparky is the next amp i build haha
Quote from: smurfedelic smurfberry on October 04, 2013, 10:35:10 PM
here's my enclousure... abs plastic, aluminium tape covered inside.. (http://24.media.tumblr.com/1c2d851b84bf606dfc8403d501fd759e/tumblr_msyva1GXIi1r1qbzzo1_1280.jpg)
I like it, it's a bit "thin" when it comes to the sound, but it's awesome. I guess the 5w Sparky is the next amp i build haha
cool papa smurf
couldn't get your weblink to work though
:(
Ah, damn, it's mydiypedals.tumblr.com not .org
awesome look.. that big 'ole knob looks great right on top.. nice work.
-Corey
This looks great!
Can't wait to get this on bread board and try it out.
Hey chromesphere, I just ordered a couple of the chips from your store. I hope you have fast postage :P
Hey man, thanks for the order! Well you just live around the corner so lets see if Australia Post can get off their asses and get it to you? :) Will post out tomorrow, cheers
Paul
The order arrived promptly, thanks Paul!
I bread boarded the schem on page 4 and couldn't believe my ears! :o I plugged it into an entertainment system rear speaker which I picked up (literally off the side of the road) for free courtesy of hard rubbish collection... and boy oh boy it sounded sweet! And way louder than I expected! My wife burst into the room telling me to turn it down or I would wake our son. Haha! ;D
Below is a picture of it on bread with the speaker. I am really surprised at the quality of the sound it produces. I was expecting it to sound toyish and be a novelty item so was planning to marry it up with an 8 bit fuzz.
Now I'm thinking a simple Over Drive circuit... any suggestions? Preferably with low parts and knob count.
Cheers Tiago for a great little circuit!
(http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/dgbetts/DIY%20Pedal%20Builds/e0ea02b1-8907-4081-8e53-193710428c61_zps0ba9c9fc.jpg) (http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/dgbetts/media/DIY%20Pedal%20Builds/e0ea02b1-8907-4081-8e53-193710428c61_zps0ba9c9fc.jpg.html)
Glad you got it quick!
Yeah its pretty amazing hah? You should hear it through 2 x 12 inch fender twin speakers. :o
Paul
Glad you got good results.. I was initially surprised by it's sweet response with a dinky speaker too.. it's clean, but not cold.
I was playing around with this again tonight and I get an audible "thump" when I power up the circuit.
Is anyone else experiencing this? What can I do to avoid it?
Thanks in advance!
Hey David,
I just built one last night as well. I just break 9v with a spdt to turn the effect on and off. I don't think I get a thump, although I might if the effect was up loud when I turn it on, but that's probably expected.
Paul
> I get an audible "thump" when I power up the circuit.
That's surely normal.
When you turn-on, various points have to rise-up from zero Volts to half of supply voltage.
The Power Stage tends to have low turn-on thump. It is two sides. If both come-up equally fast, there is no thump *across* the speaker. In practice the two sides aren't exact-equal, but thump may be small.
We usually need additional stages befor the Power stage. I forget which plan is current. The one at the top of the thread has a JFET buffer in front. This *must* come-up from zero to whatever its normal voltage is. As shown there (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99271.msg869991#msg869991), this may only be 1V or so. But the amp is designed to get loud with the part-Volt signal from guitar. So a 1V sudden rise will "thump" the speaker.
It is perhaps possible for this to "blow a speaker"; however a single thump can't do as much damage as playing LOUD for many minutes. Which is what we do. And if the speaker can't take it, we get a tougher speaker.
I built a 2nd punch amp and used a J201. I think I found a potential problem, but im no EE so im possing the problem here to see what you guys think.
For some reason this one distorts when the input is too high. A high output guitar can make it distort. if I put my EQ pedal infront of it and turn the level down on the EQ, the distortion goes away and I can compensate with the volume on the punch amp and not get any more distortion. I didn't notice this with my first punch but will have to experiment to see if I can replicate the problem.
I thought the buffer was meant to circumvent this problem? Is it the j201 perhaps? If not, and this is normal behaviour, would a limiting pot on the front of the amp be a good idea to cut back the voltage on the input of the circuit?
Paul
^ The J201 has -.8V pinch voltage... this is to low if you put a booster, or something that amplifies the signal, in front of it. The MPF102 has a -3V pinch voltage. The J201 is the cause of the distortion.
Ah k, I though any jfet worked with this buffer. No problem I will replace it! Thanks TCA!
Paul
Thanks for the explaination PRR - Your posts are always very informative!
I was thinking, for others that want to build this effect with a j201, would anyone know if you can sub the resistor values for the buffer to make the circuit behave with the j201?
I still have my punch on breadboard and have paired it up with an Electra Distortion derivative. My question is, should I put the buffer part before the distortion? Right now I have it between the distortion and the punch.
Which would be better? I see in TCA's 'Lux version he has the buffer before his OD.
Cheers
The buffer ensures that the guitar signal sees a high impedance, preserving the highs. It depends of what you really want.
On a side note, my buffer (the non-j201 buffer) definitely doesn't preserve the highs and needs an eq pedal to boost them. In fact this goes for my 2nd punch amp as well (the j201 version).
^ If you are powering it with a battery you should decrease the coupling cap between the buffer and the IC, to less than 1u.
P.S.
I've written that in the PDF ;)
Im using 470nf on the coupling cap after the jfet. Is this still too much maybe?
Edit: so that's 470nf with dc power
Quote from: chromesphere on October 20, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
Im using 470nf on the coupling cap after the jfet. Is this still too much maybe?
Edit: so that's 470nf with dc power
Well, my version with DC power has a 1u cap and works great with my strat! I guess the speaker and the speaker cab plays an important role here and the guitar too. Didn't you say that you tested it with some big guitar speakers (Fender Twin speakers?). How that sounded in terms of freq response?
Yeah I mentioned this a while ago but it must gotten overlooked. Doesnt matter wat set up I use even headphones the tone is dull and needs treble boost. Ill try incresing that cap after the buffer thanks tca!
I increased the coupling cap from 470nf to 1uf. There wasn't much difference unfortunately. The freq response still sounds kind of dull. I think what I might be after is a treble boost. With my 7 band eq pedal infront of it, slowly rolling up the last 4 bands, the output sounds much nicer to my ears. I think this is just how the tda7052a sounds. I think it just sounds like your guitar signal. Im just used to boosting treble on my amps!
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on October 21, 2013, 04:18:58 AM
I increased the coupling cap from 470nf to 1uf.
You should
decrease it to cut some bass, not the other way around :icon_lol:
lol ok whoops :) anyway it doesn't matter. I think im just saying it sounds 'dull' because its your un-altered guitar signal. No amp EQ / treble boosted.
Paul
The "dullness" occurs due to various factors, to name a few:
- the frequency response of these chips is flat
- with an output of .5W the distortion is about 1%
- the distortion is given by hard clipping, only odd harmonics
- it is not build to be overdriven by a a large input signal
- ...
my idea when making this amp *was* to use pedals before it to shape the signal to your taste. Simply put: a clean and transparent amplifier with a small number parts.
Cheers.
Oh don't get me wrong tca, its an amazing amp! The amp isn't the shortcoming. My understanding of how the amp should sound is the problem. I'm so used to amps with the treble boosted that the punch amp without treble all of a sudden sounds 'dull'. Not the amps fault. My understanding is the problem.
I'm off to try it with a rangemaster now :D
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on October 21, 2013, 04:46:38 AM
My understanding of how the amp should sound is the problem.
I get you! Sometimes we just expect to much of simple things, just because they are simple.
Finished mine this morning - well the chasis (I'm going to put in a cab with two 5" bookshelf speakers I've got lying around) and it sounds pretty decent through m 10" Jensen C10Q
Only problem is that it's got a buzz when I use a powerplug, which goes away when I use a battery.. there's probably a fix to that, right?
Mines been super quiet! Did you add the 100uf from + to ground?
EDIT: Oh yeah, but my power supply is pretty clean to start off with though.
Quote from: chromesphere on November 16, 2013, 06:43:47 AM
Mines been super quiet! Did you add the 100uf from + to ground?
EDIT: Oh yeah, but my power supply is pretty clean to start off with though.
Ah, I don't think I did.. will have a look. Though, like you, when I use it with my Power Plant Jr it's quiet as well, so probably the cheap Thomann powerplug doing the dirty.
It's simple to make a tiny PSU filter baby board, then never worry about the supply.
Quote from: garcho on November 16, 2013, 01:47:21 PM
It's simple to make a tiny PSU filter baby board, then never worry about the supply.
Good point!! I take it that it would simply involve the 100uF cap from + to ground..?
Something like this will help: http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/Huminator/
Quote from: chromesphere on November 16, 2013, 04:31:33 PM
Something like this will help: http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/Huminator/
Thanks!
I finished my Punch! :)
I ended up with a Punch, Electra distortion and Rebote delay all housed right inside the speaker housing!
I'm very happy with it except I have some switch popping issues which I will live with as I have zero motivation to get back inside there and pull everything out
Thanks for the great project TCA!
More details and pictures in this thread:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=105106.0
(http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/dgbetts/Punch%20Amp/IMAG0399_zpsa5f25b5f.jpg) (http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/dgbetts/Punch%20Amp/IMAG0399_zpsa5f25b5f.jpg) (http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/dgbetts/Punch%20Amp/IMAG0401_zpsfd5985db.jpg) (http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc393/dgbetts/Punch%20Amp/IMAG0401_zpsfd5985db.jpg)
Cheers!
Awesome David, that's cool! What do you think of the sound quality / volume?
Paul
Quote from: chromesphere on November 20, 2013, 12:42:30 AM
Awesome David, that's cool! What do you think of the sound quality / volume?
Paul
Thanks! The sound quality is surprisingly good and it can get quite loud - much louder than conversation levels. My wife can clearly hear me playing from the other end of the house.
The cabinet plays a big part, it sounded tinny and crap when the speaker was outside of its box.
Brilliant hah? If you have a guitar amp with a detachable speaker, plug it into that :icon_evil:
Just found chromesphere's youtube PUNCH video. Very nice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPckPDHDAMM
Cheers.
Thanks TCA!
The TDA7052A has gone obsolete but I've bought a few...ahem...well, 100, and put them on my store for anyone wanting to build this kick ass amp!
Cheers
Paul
Just ebay'd a handful of tda7052a chips. I can't wait to try and put one of these nifty little amps together.
Thanks to the powers of youtube and chromesphere to making me want to build one of these bad boys.
Quote from: chromesphere on October 21, 2013, 04:18:58 AM
I increased the coupling cap from 470nf to 1uf. There wasn't much difference unfortunately. The freq response still sounds kind of dull. I think what I might be after is a treble boost. With my 7 band eq pedal infront of it, slowly rolling up the last 4 bands, the output sounds much nicer to my ears. I think this is just how the tda7052a sounds. I think it just sounds like your guitar signal. Im just used to boosting treble on my amps!
Paul
Couldn't you add like a TMB tone stack to the circuit to compensate?
I should also mention I have PCB's for this project as well. They will fit into a 1590a and I've added pads for LED and on/off switch. The explanation for the headphone jack wiring is explained in the videos (for those following along):
http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=84
@defiantaudio - Thanks for the compliment! As far as the tone issues go, it was more a problem with my (lack of) understanding as to what the circuit actually does. It's basically like setting your guitar amp at home to zero on all the tone dials (flat response). You'd need a tonestack that increases frequencies and not just cuts them.
Quote from: DefiantAudio on February 17, 2014, 05:02:41 PM
Couldn't you add like a TMB tone stack to the circuit to compensate?
You could add tone control width a mid scope, e.g., BMP tone control, that would do the trick. Don't forget to add, also, a high impedance booster to boost the signal up.
buffer -> BMP tone control -> booster -> TDA7052
or
booster -> BMP tone control -> buffer -> TDA7052
Cheers.
@chromesphere Possibly add one of your 7 minute boost circuits before the amp circuit?
I'm still fairly new to the whole pedal building (my first build was a breadboarded 7 min fuzz. You've been my go-to guy on youtube for building effects up to this point ha) and in the veeeeerrrrry early stages of an EE degree, so I apologize for my ignorance.
Paul (chromesphere) has also been my "push" for getting into DIY effects . Tayda didn't have the chip for the punch amp so i had to buy it on ebay , and it finally arrived ! Tomorrow i'll build this amp in a Altoid Tin , and i'll post a video here :D . Cheers
Thanks guys!
Yeah you could use the 10 min boost for it, it doesn't have an insane amount of boost but probably, 3-4x volume on your signal. Plus you can use the switch to dirty it up as well :icon_cool:
Don't worry about sacristy of the chip, I've invested in the future of this project :D
Paul
Since Mouser didn't have any TDA7052s I ended up building a 1-2 watt amp using an NJM2073D. Don't know how it compares to Punch as far as sonic quality goes but it's good enough for me. Especially since I built it for when there's a power outage (which happens all too often) and I feel like playing.
Heres another TDA7052 1W Amplifier
(http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/XxdaverocksxX/Kit27TDA70521WAmplifier.jpg)
(http://www.circuitspecialists.com/content/image/6298/300/KIT%2027)
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/kit-27.html (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/kit-27.html)
^ That version has a very low input impedance to be used has a guitar amplifier, but with a buffer/booster(high impedance) in front of it it works great.
Cheers.
For the sake of making a small tube-ish amp by adding a valvecaster or equivalent circuit to this amp, are there any changes necessary or just run the out of the valve into the amp? Or possibly put the amp before the valve? I ask because I have bunch of 12au7s sitting here and am currently waiting on the chips to arrive.
I have big, grand plans for this little amp. Something along the lines of input --> MarshaValve --> Valvecaster --> Punch amp with a TMB stack in there somewhere.
Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.
I'm really irritated , i built the amp and the only thing i hear is buzz , just as i connect the battery . I have checked wiring many times and everything looks ok . Where is th4e buzz coming from ? http://picosong.com/YrDL/
^ What schem are you using? Check: DEBUGGING - What to do when it doesn't work (http://debugging%20-%20what%20to%20do%20when%20it%20doesn't%20work)
Cheers.
Oh , i got the chip pinout wrong :O
Does it work? ::)
i accidentaly cut 2 of op-amps pins . they are so fragile . i have to wait another 2 weeks for other chip . i hate working with op-amps
Op amps are great, transistors are so overrated here it drives me nuts. Everyone needs obscure mojo parts to play standard rock guitar parts? Anyway, op amps always have pin 1 on the top left, along with a marking to let you know. Active filters, lfos, and all kinds of other cool circuits live in op amp land, don't give up on them!
@ Defiant: put the valve last!
Would it make much of a difference?
Sorry, I didn't read your post closely enough and honestly, I had a few beers... :icon_redface:
Was just thinking that pushing tubes sounds good, that's all, but now I realize I was thinking about something else. Maybe pre > TS > tube > power? IIRC Rick at Frequency Central has a lot of 12au7 projects around here and other diy forums, too, might be worth digging around.
Still love op amps, even sober, ha!
I like a lot of Frequency Centrals low power tube amps. I'm just trying to avoid using anything high voltage related (like how a lot of FC's amps use a charge pump) which is why I thought this punch amp would make for a nice amp/head. I'm going for something along the lines of a small Marshall Valvestate (hybrid valve pre/ss power) amp, but still powered with 9 or 12V.
Another idea I had was building a Dr Boogie (or similar) before the Punch and rocking a small knock off SS Mesa/Boogie style amp.
I think I'm just going to end up going to the dark side and rigging up a charge pump. I've seen a couple spiffy 12au7 push/pull amps I may take a crack at. But I still intend to make a ValvePunch in the mean time. I'm just waiting on the chips and a few other components to arrive. Buying stuff on Ebay and having it shipped from China to the US takes forever ha. The joys of buying cheap/bulk items I suppose.
Just got my chips! Looking through here, it is said to not ground the output? I plan on using a 1/4 jack, so do I run the signal from pins 5 and 8 (?) to the jacks tip and sleeve lugs? Or do I ground the out entirely differently?
Sorry for the possibly ignorant question.
Hi Defiant, not sure I totally understand your question but the negative of the speaker output is not the same as the ground of the enclosure. It should be left isolated from the circuit/enclosure ground.
Hope that helps
Paul
@Chromesphere Sorry for the unclear question and thanks for the attempt at an answer hah. You could be a champ and do a youtube video of step by step assembling your 'chime' amp and you would be my hero :icon_surprised: haha
Ahh how to reword it...?
According to the layout/schematics throughout this thread (TCA's schem/pcb on the first page or chptunes schem on page 4), the chip has 2 outputs ( pins 5 and 8 ). What do I do with those outs? Both to tip of the speaker jack or...?
And part 2 of my question about the grounding the output:
How/where would I ground the output without connecting it to the circuit or enclosure? Run a wire from ring to ring of the jacks? Or the ground from the 9v?
Basically I'm asking how to entirely wire the output section of this thing. The isolated ground and 2 outputs has me confused.
I'm sorry if this still makes no sense. I really want to build one of these and like I've said before I'm still very new to the DIY scene. Any help and patience is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
-Mike
Ah I see. Ok well its a little difficult to explain but ill give it a crack. I used a plastic sleeve jack for the output so that the jack WOULDNT connect either of the speaker outputs to the ground of the enclosure. You don't want to do that, neither pin 5 or 8 (+ / - outputs) should touch circuit / enclosure ground. Most metal sleeve jacks will connect the sleeve to the enclosure which no good for a speaker output so be careful of that.
To work out which + and - goes to which part of the jack you will have to follow the signal through the cable into the speaker, I'm not sure off hand if there is a 'standard' wiring for this. Just use your multimeter to check it and follow it along.
+ and - (pin 5/8) need to go to plus and minus on your speaker. To understand how to wire up the output correctly you may want to just omit a cable & jacks initially and either pretend to or actually wire up the output directly to the speaker and then add the cable then the jacks. Your multimeter should be able to help you work out the wiring though pretty simply.
> the chip has 2 outputs
And the speaker itself has _two_ input terminals.
On breadboard, just wire the two chip outputs to the two speaker inputs.
Problem comes ONLY because it is traditional to use a 1/4" plug for speakers. Normally the shell of a 1/4" plug (and its jack) go to "ground". On this chip *neither* wire may be grounded. So the 1/4" jack must be mounted UN-grounded. With the all-metal SwitchCraft jack, this needs insulating bushings (or an insulating panel). On the mostly plastic jacks, you just wire tip and sleeve but do NOT connect sleeve to ground.
The shell of the 1/4" plug ends up "live". This is poor practice. It is not dangerous because there is only a few volts, at most, on the shell. If grounded through a human you won't get enough current through skin (even wet) to be shocking. If grounded through metal, the chip will shut-down so no harm is done.
Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. For the sake of not harming the speakers (if that is an issue?) any idea if I can test this out on a small radioshack speaker before trying it out on 2x12 speakers in a marshall combo? What I mean is theoretically if it produces sound through the radioshack speaker, it should theoretically produce sound through the 2x12's right? Or is speaker wiring not a standardized thing? And out of curiosity, would this chip power a 4x12 speaker cab or would there be modification to the circuit to make it work?
Oh yeah. Last (hopefully) random question: Will it make much of a difference using ceramic caps instead of film in this? I have loads more ceramics than films.
I plan on putting this amp together in the next few days (as soon as I have time).
I'm sorry for the constant questions, but you guys are really very helpful. Im trying to cover all my bases before building in the hopes of cutting down on the debugging after its built.
Thanks
-Mike
Quote from: DefiantAudio on March 12, 2014, 08:46:05 PM
Thanks for the replies. They are very helpful. For the sake of not harming the speakers (if that is an issue?) any idea if I can test this out on a small radioshack speaker before trying it out on 2x12 speakers in a marshall combo? What I mean is theoretically if it produces sound through the radioshack speaker, it should theoretically produce sound through the 2x12's right? Or is speaker wiring not a standardized thing? And out of curiosity, would this chip power a 4x12 speaker cab or would there be modification to the circuit to make it work?
Oh yeah. Last (hopefully) random question: Will it make much of a difference using ceramic caps instead of film in this? I have loads more ceramics than films.
I plan on putting this amp together in the next few days (as soon as I have time).
I'm sorry for the constant questions, but you guys are really very helpful. Im trying to cover all my bases before building in the hopes of cutting down on the debugging after its built.
Thanks
-Mike
I don't think you can damage that kind of cheese speakers with a 9V battery amplifier (check this for a preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPckPDHDAMM)
Use any kind of caps, no difference.
Cheers.
The first time I was on this site I found a schematic for a punch amp + distortion. The original design was by Tiago Charters de Azevedo and it was modified by nomorebetts. If anyone can help me locate that or point me in the direction of a similar one it would be greatly appreciated.
^ Here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=105106.0
Happy hacking!
I've received some PM asking a replacement for the MPF102. The JFET is only acting as a buffer, any other JFET will work. Or any other type of buffer also, e.g., with an op-amp.
Cheers.
hey would it work if I use an 8 ohm speaker and like a 70 ohm resistor before it? I have a bunch of 8 and 4 ohm speakers but not a single 80 ohm, so wouldn't it be the same if I used a 70 ohm resistor and an 8 ohm speaker in serie instead of an 80 0hm speaker???
kind of new here ha ha
ok its me again, what would you say the maximum consumption in mA would be? 200? 300? 400? 500? I have a few different adapters I could use and they are 9v
??? ??? ??? ???
It wants an 8 or 4 ohm speaker. If you see 80 ohm it's probably a typo.
Hey Guys,
Just a question regarding volume that maybe you can help out with. I built the punch amp as per chptunes schematic (on page 3 of this thread) and I find the volume is quite quiet. I would say it comes out at conversation level. I was hoping to get it a little bit louder if possible. I have it being run with a 11.5V 1.95A power adapter.
Thanks
Might be your speaker size Shrike? Mine is so loud in front of my fender amp (2 x 12) its uncomfortable :)
I'm using an old Peavey Solo amp chassis & speaker (like this -> http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/peavey-solo-241585.jpg) to run the amp through. With the original electronics this thing was quite loud. Unfortunately a power surge fried most of the innards on the original.
Also, you make some pretty awesome youtube vids chromesphere
Thank you sir!
Difficult to tell what size that speaker is from the photo, 8 inch maybe? Pretty sure the 6 inch speaker I tested my punch amp was pretty decent in volume. Its only 1 watt so don't expect to blow your windows out but still should be ok for practice. Maybe check over your circuit for errors or try it on a larger speaker if you have one around.
It's an 8" speaker. The original was 15 watts (with dual RC4558 ICs) so maybe this all I can expect.
The dual op-amps were probably for distortion? The first punch amp I built was quiet. I'm not sure what I did to stuff it up, but it was basically talking level. The second one I built was loud! I was utterly amazed at exactly how loud (and clean) it could go! I could honestly p!ss the neighbours off, its that loud (through the 2x12 speakers). I suspect there's something else going on with your set up, even without 2 x 12's you should still get something that's perfectly good for practice, maybe like, loud shouting level approx.
Well, the good thing is I have it on a breadboard still. I'll investigate and maybe post some pictures.
I think I found the issue (or at least a large part of it). The speaker has 4ohm impedance, not 8ohm. I only had an 8.2ohm resistor to the speaker. I changed it to a 12ohm resistor now. Similar problem though. I want to tweak things but don't want to wreck anything either
I'm interesting about this mini-amp, but I'm having difficult finding a TDA7052. (Banzai, musikding, tayda...).
Or, there's a replacement?
Chromosphere has them in his store or else go to ebay. Make sure it is a tda7052A though, B won't work.
I saw it in that store. ;)
On e-bay there's something indeed, but is not a cheap business. But I'll remember it.
I'm searching some in Italy, or Europe.
Maybe there's some TDA7052A, but with delivery costs a little expensive. I should order further product and get some advantages of that buying.
Thank you! :)
Thanks for the mention guys! Please excuse my following self-promotion, if you are looking for a pcb, my 'chime amp' is essentially a punch amp with a few minor additions , its also ridiculously small:
http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=84
Cheers
My only issue is shipping to Canada. I prefer to build because it's much less expensive.
pcb + chip is $3 for delivery (untracked international mail post) just fyi.
Anyway, I have about 50~ tda7052a's left incase anyone else needs em.
That's actually quite reasonable shipping. I have a handful of the tda7052a chips I picked up off of eBay. That PCB looks pretty compact though.
Thanks Shrike. Yeah the circuits so small, its an easy fit for a 1590a with a 9mm pot.
Did you fix the volume issue?
No, it's still fairly quiet. I've double and triple checked the circuit and no dice. I may just take it all apart and try again.
That doesn't sound like its working properly, even with a small speaker I found this amp to be relatively loud. With the 2x12's its 'shake the windows' loud. Loudness is difficult to explain you know, but yeah, I definitely wouldn't have called it quiet. The first one I built was very quiet. So quiet if I was talking you'd have trouble hearing the amp. I sort of thought "is that it!?" and moved on. Then I came back to it a few months later and rebuilt the circuit. I was totally amazed how loud this thing could go. I mean its only 1 watt! I concluded that I must haven't stuffed something up on the first one! Just sharing this story because your situation reminds me of what I went through. You might want to mess around with that resistor in series with the speaker as well. TDA7052A only needs 8R on the output.
Quote from: shrike88 on July 31, 2014, 10:31:06 PM
[...] I prefer to build because it's much less expensive.
I prefer to build because it's much fun! ;D
I had built a very simple smokey amp, and I have some circuits work in progress. I'd like to build this one, too. I have just a tv speaker, 7 w - 8 Ohm.
Could I plug this amp into return of my 120w solid state combo amp 2x12?
Well, despite my intent to rebuild the circuit regardless I put an order in for your chime amp PCB. I figure I get enough from your videos and assistance that I might as well contribute
Thank you very much Shrike will post out for you shortly, cheers!
Paul
Hi! I'm ready to order the material for this building.
A friend of us had shown me this link: http://parasitstudio.weebly.com/stripboard-layouts/chime-amp-punch-amp-v2 (http://parasitstudio.weebly.com/stripboard-layouts/chime-amp-punch-amp-v2).
I need help (about some little mods) and some answers, please.
- I had a tv speaker (8 Ohm, 7w). I think that is fit. It is?
- I want to add also an output jack. I don't have a cabinet, but only a solid state amp 2x12. Could I connect this 1w amp to the return of my big amp? Eventually, I need some wiring layout about this adding, too.
- I'll put all into a plastic box. Generally, I always use open frame jacks. Is those fit in this case?
Thank you very much! :D
PS
I read, about this layout, 1n5457 is absolutely necessary, so it can't replace. Is it true?
And, http://imgur.com/URTeFuF (http://imgur.com/URTeFuF), might I need a protection 8 Ohm resistor for the speaker?
you could take a look at the datasheet for the 7052 chip , this often helps with info
the chip is not more than 2 watt out put and 8 ohms is also good for the speaker if the datasheet supports this claim ... , ultimately the speakers ohm rating will effect the performance a bit , volume wise . for guitar amp speakers , some folks claim a small diameter cone is best . i feel trying out what you have , experimenting with a few may be a good approach . having the speaker in a proper cabinet or box is extremely important , this makes a huge difference , the dimensions of said box , material , ported / not ported etc . that ALL plays a large part the toanz . especially if the speaker is not in an enclosure , they do not perfom well like that . in a test mode i have quicly prepared card board boxes to temporarily house a speaker . it isn't permanent , but it will give me a much better response than a speaker hanging by its leads , or in the toilet .
i would not connect it to the return , but directly to the 2 x 12 amps speakers , after i "ohm the speakers out" to see what the impedance is , does that number support the spec in the datasheet ? it may not harm anything , it may even sound ok , but it is not the proper method as you would be feeding the punch circuit into the other ones power amp . it also COULD damage something if it was cranked , etc ... not sure .
you may experience a bit more noise or interference with a plastic box , you may not . it would depend , but usually folks use metal enclosures to block rfi ( radio frequency ipod ) . some folks will insulate a plastic or wooden enclosure , there are "$pecial" paints , some use tinfoil if there is any left after the hat making , of course , copper tape , thrifty diyers prefer slug tape . i think this is why most folks choose a metal enclosure . you could try it and see ... this is the fun of diy , doing it wrong . ( my new sig? )
as far as the 1n5457goes , i believe any jfet should work , j201 , in my experience , well , i much prefer using a buffer in front of these type of chip amp circuits . unless you have a buffered pedal that you would ALWAYS be using in front of the amp ...
again , the R in question , it is not a necessity , it depends how attached you are to the speaker , but me , personally , i would try it both ways , as i have a ton of junk around , and i prefer to d o things "myself" as it may be , at times .
Don't use a J201 in this build. It wont work. TCA explained the reason why, vgs too low or something. I built one with a j201 and it distorted. I would socket the jfet if you are going to try one that isn't a 2n5457.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
you could take a look at the datasheet for the 7052 chip , this often helps with info
I'll take a look, and I hope to understand something.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
ultimately the speakers ohm rating will effect the performance a bit , volume wise .
I read it, too.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
having the speaker in a proper cabinet or box is extremely important , this makes a huge difference , the dimensions of said box , material , ported / not ported etc . that ALL plays a large part the toanz . especially if the speaker is not in an enclosure , they do not perfom well like that . in a test mode i have quicly prepared card board boxes to temporarily house a speaker . it isn't permanent , but it will give me a much better response than a speaker hanging by its leads , or in the toilet .
Ok, thanks! This is one of my first building, just for some experiments yet. I have little money and few material. So, that will be not a great amp or a mean amp for me. If I can make to work that is a success for me.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
i would not connect it to the return , but directly to the 2 x 12 amps speakers , after i "ohm the speakers out" to see what the impedance is , does that number support the spec in the datasheet ? it may not harm anything , it may even sound ok , but it is not the proper method as you would be feeding the punch circuit into the other ones power amp . it also COULD damage something if it was cranked , etc ... not sure .
I have just my combo amp. No way to play with the speakers without pass through amp. :(
I could buy a cheap 8" or 10" speaker for the punch, if I like it.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
you may experience a bit more noise or interference with a plastic box , you may not . it would depend , but usually folks use metal enclosures to block rfi ( radio frequency ipod ) . some folks will insulate a plastic or wooden enclosure , there are "$pecial" paints , some use tinfoil if there is any left after the hat making , of course , copper tape , thrifty diyers prefer slug tape . i think this is why most folks choose a metal enclosure . you could try it and see ... this is the fun of diy , doing it wrong . ( my new sig? )
My Smokey Amp is out of the box now, and that doesn't give me no problem with radio interference.
Plastic box I found are less expansive than metal box... I'll search again something better. Metal box.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
as far as the 1n5457goes , i believe any jfet should work , j201 , in my experience , well , i much prefer using a buffer in front of these type of chip amp circuits . unless you have a buffered pedal that you would ALWAYS be using in front of the amp ...
I found the 1n5457! ;) Finally. So, I'll buy this, and I will feel safer.
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
again , the R in question , it is not a necessity , it depends how attached you are to the speaker , but me , personally , i would try it both ways , as i have a ton of junk around , and i prefer to d o things "myself" as it may be , at times .
Ok, I could add this resistor. I have to understand if I am one of that junk ;D. Indeed, I don't know how much ways are to attach a speaker! :-\ Ok. I am a junk! ::)
Quote from: chromesphere on August 19, 2014, 10:15:56 PM
Don't use a J201 in this build. It wont work. [...] I would socket the jfet if you are going to try one that isn't a 2n5457.
Cheers
Paul
Thank you. I found the "right" transistor. 1n5457. And, of course I'll socket the transistor. Always! :D
PS Oh.... and about the wiring? (speaker + output cabinet)
I found some schematics, but there's something I don't understand. What kind of jack I need? And how to connect it exactly?
Thanks at all! ;)
Having some issues. Thoughts?
http://youtu.be/pM4Z-XmG0TE
EDIT: I should also note that I get no sound at all from the guitar as well. I'm almost curious if the 2N5457 is dead. Not sure how I would test this anyways.
Update: After rebuilding the circuit several times I've concluded I got a batch of fried ICs. The characteristics and noises (or lack thereof) change with each one I put in (I socketed the IC). I'll need to order more and hope they come in sometime soon.
Hi Shrike, you can fry the chip if you connect things up incorrectly. Make sure you aren't shorting the output. Minus on the output is not the same as circuit ground, just in case you weren't aware of that (got me first time :D). If the chip is getting hot, something is wrong with your build. Someone stated earlier in this thread that the tda7052 is designed for 6vThey may get warm but none I have built have been 'hot'. I haven't had issues with supplying the TDA7052 with 9v's before. The datasheet rates the chip at a maximum of 18v from memory.
I definitely have the speaker isolated, (Out + and - to the respective terminals on the speaker). I double and triple checked the circuits and there was no shorts. I multimetered all the connections and wasn't able to isolate the issue. I had five 7052a ICs, and each gave a different characteristic when plugged in. I had popping (as in the video) in different ranges and volumes. Another had no sound output. I unintentionally shorted one with a loose wire in testing (that gave off lots of smoke :icon_redface:). Regardless, I'll need to order more in now. The trick is sourcing them. The last batch I got off ebay since I can't seem to locate any online stores that carry it.
My first building has been a Smokey Amp, and it was correct, but the output was very low. With a new alkaline battery the IC warm up within few seconds. I built it reverse! Everything was ok, but this "detail".
Maybe you are not fool like me. :P
PS ??? But are you using a pcb?
I don't know if it can help, but... Did you have connect it just with your Peavey amp?
slight reminder, that the 7052 is different from the 7052A
(http://diale.org/img/punch.png)
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/NXP%20PDFs/TDA7052_CNV_2.pdf
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/TDA7052A_AT.pdf
Quote from: petey twofinger on August 19, 2014, 06:50:47 PM
[...]
i would not connect it to the return [...] it may not harm anything , it may even sound ok , but it is not the proper method as you would be feeding the punch circuit into the other ones power amp . it also COULD damage something if it was cranked , etc ... not sure .
I remember that my amp have a "cd input", it is an 3,5mm jack input. I used it sometimes to connect my computer, or my mp3 player.
Could I connect my punch amp (when I wll build it) in this kind of input?
In the manual of the amp:
CD INPUT: "Use this 1/8" stereo mini jack to connect the output from a CD player, MP3 player, laptop, etc., to the amplifier.
The signal at this jack is summed into a mono signal, which is sent to the internal power amp circuit. Use the output level control for the signal source to adjust the signal for the proper mix with your guitar."
Could the punch amp work well and correctly without damage?
One word: NO.
Mini-amps based on a LM386 (or any similar non-bridged chips), on the other hand, would most probably work just fine.
I'm sorry, if I got it.
Could I connect to input cd of my amp a Smokey Amp, but no the Punch Amp? :-\
One word: YES
Unless you "mod" the Punch amp by adding a cap-resistor section that would block the DC component to reach your inputs and possibly cause some harm. (So connecting a cap to either a pin 5 or 8 and add a resistor to ground to bleed the DC - and taking the "cd-out" from this resistor ... and of course ground).
It's quite simple when you think about it actually.
Not so simple for me. :)
But thank you! ;)
Just add a cap to ..say, pin-5 of the TDA7052, in the same manner that you would do it with a 386 chipamp. 47uF would be more than enough, perhaps 10-22uF would be better.
Say, like here (but do it with the TDA7052 in the Punch amplifier):
http://www.beavisaudio.com/projects/NoisyCricket/oldpics/SmokeyTone.gif
Instead of a speaker, connect a resistor (or a pot), say 1K ..or even 10K, and this is going to be your "cd-out". You will most likely have to pad it down, since it's going to be too hot for a cd-input, so using a potentiometer instead of a simple resistor wold be even better idea.
Simple enough?
OK, I got it better, now. Thanks! :D
Damn! I use the stripboards for my circuit, and I cut the veroboard for the punch amp two days ago, while I'm waiting my package with the material. :icon_evil:
http://parasitstudio.weebly.com/stripboard-layouts/chime-amp-punch-amp-v2 (http://parasitstudio.weebly.com/stripboard-layouts/chime-amp-punch-amp-v2).
Meanwhile, I'm studing another thing. I don't got it well though I found some schematic. Have the speaker and the output jack. Actually, my Smokey Amp has just a little speaker (I'm waiting a new one from Tayda).
I want this kind of solution (speaker+output jack) especially for the punch amp. Maybe later I could buy an 8" speaker.
I soldered all components on the board using a veroboard layout. :)
About the "cap-resistor section mod" I'm letting it go for the moment. The board was cut yet. I could use a second board, but in the box I bought could be not space enough.
There's something not clear to me. Could I use an open frame jack for the input?
And for the output I have an amp style jack, with switch lugs. If I explain well, with this output jack I want to exclude the speaker on board when I connect an external cabinet.
I'm studying the wiring.
Thank you!
Hi guys.
I built the circuit of the punch amp using a stripboard, schematic is the same of chime amp by chromesphere.
I did just a modify: I moved the volume pot, I inserted it before the input of the board.
I this way I have more volume (I tested it with a 8" speaker).
Hello,
First of all i would like to thank you for the punch amp diy. After hearing the amp on youtube have decided this amp would be a good start for a first time project. However i couldn't mange to get the mpf 102, my local store has got a 2n5484 jfet (www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/2/N/5/4/2N5484.shtml) and the guy said it was same as a mpf 102. My doubt is regarding the jfet, will it work? or will i have to change some resistance, also what is the polarity of the 1u capacitor in the circuit (my 1u capacitor is polarised).
P.S. I am a noob regarding these things please help me. Excuse my english.
^ The 2n5484 will work nicely.
The + of the 1uF cap goes into the TDA7052 input.
Cheers.
hello, i finally built the amp but when i connect the 9v battery it is draining fast like in 20 sec.... and while it drains the volume keeps getting low till it drains completely. I can connect the battery after some mins and it works again for 20 sec. i also checked all the terminals for any short circuit but found none now i have no idea what is going on! help please.
Check the speaker connections! It should be isolated from ground, see schematic.
P.S.
Some pics would help!
I am testing it with a headphone using i 3.5mm female jack... Anyways i will post some pics tomorrow... Also when i tested it with a 9v power adapter the amp was working without any decrease in volume but it generated a loud hum...
It seems you have a short circuit!
Is the output in any way connected to ground?
Sorry for the delay i was busy with some work but here is a pic... i have drawn the connection lines over the image.... the circuit is ugly and confusing by itself. I kept the circuit spacious so that i don't solder anything by mistake cause my soldering i crappy. i taped it afterwards with cello-tape :P don't know why but i thought it was a good idea.... anyway have a look at it. if the circuit needs to be redone tell me cause i don't have a problem doing it all over... to be fair i enjoyed making it...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_4-Pn2YOUu5UU1KTVBkTWYzZlE/view?usp=sharing
i cant make out if the output is connected to ground i posted a pic of the circuit please tell me if anything is wrong with the layout.
Are you sure that your IC is the TDA7052? Not the TDA7052A? (Can't tell from the image you posted.)
the id on the chip says tda 7052 N44270 HnH5011
Hey i checked the output connection looks like i did solder the + of the batt with the audio out. After correting this it started working fine but there is a cracking hum in the background. May be the polarised 1u cap isnt working well should i replace it with a non polarised cap? Thank you for all your help till now.
I have built a tonemender to put in front of my PUNCH amp. It is driving the PUNCH way to hard and need to see what the best way is to match these two circuits as best as possible. You can get the schematic from the zip file placed here. Any help would be extremely appreciated.
http://www.distinctiveturnings.com/vickaudio/FreeGuitarPCB/index.php/tested-pcbs/run-groove-tonemender/
Welcome!
The tonemender has a drive pot (500k), use it. Replace it with a 100k pot to reduce the max gain available. If you don't want to mess the tonemender just add a100k pot/trim (voltage divider) at the output and adjust to taste.
I would reduce to 500k to a smaller value.
Cheers.
Someone else replaced the A500K pot with a 22K fixed resistor which would give unity gain ( would be fine for what I am trying to do).
http://blackoutelectronics.com/wordpress/?p=431
If I wanted to use this instead of the trimmer, can you advise what pins would be connected by the resistor? Any other jumpers needed for the other pin(s)?
Thanks,
Dave
Hello, everyone!
I'm an absolute beginner and want to build the Punch as my first amp. My problem is not new here - local stores don't have MPF102.
They actually don't have many JFETs at all.
I've read that J201 is not compatible for this build (they don't have it anyway).
I hoped to use 2SK117 instead - it has Ig = 10mA, just like MPF102
What parameters I should look at when choosing a JFET?
They also have those n-channel field transistors:
2SK212F
2SK246
2SK301
BF862
MMBFJ201
MMBFJ310
I don't really care about form, just want it to work...
Thank you for help!
That MMBFJ201 *IS* your J201, except with little teeny legs. Physically awkward but electrically right.
Thank you, PRR! Too bad J201 is not suitable for this build. :icon_smile:
I chose MMBFJ310. It looked the most close to MPF102. I made a conclusion (because of this https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/confusion-regarding-pinch-off-voltage-in-a-jfet.734222/ (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/confusion-regarding-pinch-off-voltage-in-a-jfet.734222/)), that the important parameter described in this message:
Quote from: tca on October 18, 2013, 06:33:11 AM
^ The J201 has -.8V pinch voltage... this is to low if you put a booster, or something that amplifies the signal, in front of it. The MPF102 has a -3V pinch voltage. The J201 is the cause of the distortion.
...is V
GS(OFF). But J201 actually has V
GS(OFF)=-0.3 ~ -1.5 V and MPF102 has V
GS(OFF)=-8.0V
Also, in this message
Quote from: tca on March 08, 2015, 08:55:45 AM
^ The 2n5484 will work nicely.
The + of the 1uF cap goes into the TDA7052 input.
Cheers.
...recommends 2n5484. But it has V
GS(OFF)=-0.3 ~ -3.0 V. Not much more than J201.
So, it's still unclear why some FETs would work fine and others wont.
Anyway, my built succeed! It works! Of course, it were a pile of troubles.
First, the store had TDA7052 on paper, but actually they only had TDA7052A, so I was forced to buy additional 1M Ohm pot, which cost me almost the price of whole initial build.
Second, I knew MMBFJ310 is SMD, but I wasn't ready it's SO small! Anyway, I made a tiny "board" for it to not screw it and it worked out.
Finally, when I soldered everything together, it simply didn't work. Thanks to Corey aka chptunes, who pointed out that R3 should be omitted. When I removed it - the amp started working!
Only, the bright white noise in on the background. Isn't there some way to reduce it without cutting the volume?
hi guys,
a friend wants a little 'clean' amp so i thought of the punch as it seems like an ideal candidate...
the thing is, i'm using the TDA7052a. so i have the vol pot on pin 4 to ground etc...
heres the issue, i have it breadboarded as per scheme page 1. (+ vol pot)
ive tried a 4ohm 6'' speaker and an 8 ohm 6'' speaker... on pins 5/8 but its distorted as hell..
and the weird thing is when i turn the vol the speaker/s suck in and out...without even playing
e.g i can control the speaker suck n blow with the pot.....weird
am i missing something here?..
(is this amp ok with humbuckers?) or only for fender heads ;)
EDIT: after reading this thread, it seems i have exactly the same isue as 'shrike' did in his video....
thump thump thump...too
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99271.msg989200#msg989200
dodgy ic's ?..
The schem on page 1 does not work for the TDA7052a... you will need a cap. Check p. 8 of the data sheet.
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/TDA7052A_AT.pdf
Cheers.
(http://s6.postimg.org/48alhz65t/1w_Punch_Optimized_for_PP3_R001_page_1.jpg)
Something like this: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99271.msg894794#msg894794
Cheers.
Ahh i see.. cheers tiago..i'll give that a go then. nice one... 8)
i just ordered a TDA2627A for fun, they look pretty cool too..
brilliant...got it going.
cheers man.. 8)
edit: wow i'm quite impressed...
after a tinker around with guitar with a naked unboxed 6'' speaker, it sounded pretty cool..
i even put my 5 string bass on it for a laugh...and it handles it with no distorting etc...and at a pleasant level..
very cool...be a nice sound when boxed.. 8) nice one tiago..
i'll give it a proper test in the morning,.. ;)
Lol...i had this amp running on a 9v solar panel only....worked great....till the clouds came over ha ha..
Quote from: deadastronaut on August 19, 2015, 10:16:04 AM
Lol...i had this amp running on a 9v solar panel only....worked great....till the clouds came over ha ha..
Nice! Sounds like a commercial product to me. "battery free portable amp with tube saturation and natural sag upon first cloud cover"
rather dark-sounding, would you say, DA (the other)?
(http://www.publicdomainpictures.net/pictures/10000/nahled/cloudscape-10811285463008MYxi.jpg)
Bloody clouds... :( well it was fun...
just got my Tda2767a...whoohooo...3 watts of pure unadulterated cat annoying...... 8)
Play nicely with the cat, Rob.
(http://i.imgur.com/5rUXCrk.jpg) :icon_biggrin:
arghhhhhhh..... :icon_eek:
LOL...SOLAR AMP..
1 watt solar punch amp ;) ,
i tried a 3 watt amp and that kicked ass with a 12'' marshall speaker ha ha... 8) (not on vid)
i now have some lovely small 12volt solar panels, which put out 14volt when raining, and 20 when bright sunshine...
so i'll be building a 3 watt, solar charged one soon..lol ;)
^ That looks pretty cool!
Cheers.
Nice one, Rob. But one little thing puzzles me. You said a long time ago that you're close to Mottingham station. How close exactly? Looking at that infeasibly blue sky and bright sunshine, I'd say about this close:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4126/5042375471_8418fd5804_b.jpg) :icon_biggrin:
Yeah the sun was added in after using adobe after effects....haha..
usually its moody as hell..not bad today mind...
im off to whitstable for a week, beach bumming etc,...better than the cote de zure full of illegals lol.... :D
and a lot cheaper too... 8)
Enjoy yer break, mate. :)
cheers man, will do... 8)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Amplifier-Board-Module-35W-Mono-Power-amp-Low-Power-TDA8932-12v-24v-car-/181862348440?hash=item2a57d73698
DID TWO OF THESE IN buckets , like a 5 gallon then a three . cut in a ten inch subin the lid then a side mounted tweeeter with a crossover in each bucket with a internal 12 volt 7mah sla battery and a port . its all upcycled stuff except the amp boards so it was cheap-ish . i paid 4 for one bass guitar amp style speaker and 7 for the ooochie ooochie hip hop rap sub speaker .
these will be used for bass guitar and the other will be used with a drum machine , for on the back patio as the 100 watt chip amp system i built for mass guitar is stereo , has two heavier cabinets , a built in mixer and it is a bit much for the back patio so it made sense .
my punch amp is nice @ one watt , it uses a built in ni-cad 9 volt pack @ 9.6 volts , but one watt isnt enough to punch a bass speaker and drum machine at the same time , even at low levels , and i simply can not pass up a speaker value like that so sue me .
finding the tda2030 boards for 1.50 , maybe actuallya bit less , i dont think i will be building any more punch amps , but i am sitting on four of those 7052a chips . i also am sitting on a few stereo tda / ebay / china modules i got for around 5 each , 15x2 's , i am doing one of those i n a half rack-sh enclosure witha li-ion pack / charging circuit and i might just slap a fetzer or something in there but to be honest i doubt it as i have alot of options for small battery powered "front ends" here . i also have a 3 watt stereo unit , not sure if that can be bridged .
Those 35W work like a charm!
Hi, I know I am replying to your post more than 3 years later, but I just stumbled on it and I have a few questions, if you have of course the time and desire to answer them. Let me please know, I will post more once I receive your reply. Thank you very much!
We are all here ;)
I'm not. ;)
revisiting the solar amp...as its been sunny recently..but not today ::)
i fancy leaving it on my window ledge to charge during the day etc..(but i'll still have a dc socket to charge too)
i listen to radio a lot while i do stuff..so....
if i wanted to add a stereo summed to mono in for mp3/radio etc..
im guessing i just take the stereo in and add a small resistor on left/ right then in?..(what value?)
and would the straight guitar in be ok still?..
All you need is are 1K resistors on the left and right out of the source, mp3, smart phone, etc. tied together for the mono input
brilliant....cheers man.
breadboarding it up now.. ;)
hmmmm...
that stereo/mono works,but when i add a guitar too
the guitar is almost silent..but stereo is ok hmmm...
should i put the stereo mono straight to the pin 2 instead i guess?..
edit: scatch that...
i put the L/R just before pin 2...sorted. guitar and stereo fine now... 8)
does this look right for a solar/charge/DC amp....seems logical..
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/solaramp.jpg)
Quote from: deadastronaut on May 10, 2016, 02:32:48 PM
does this look right for a solar/charge/DC amp....seems logical..
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/solaramp.jpg)
thats a great idea actually DA
Cool idea now summers creeping in! 8)
Maybe add input-caps to L+R, there should be a small pos voltage at the 5457's source.
The 100R part of RC-filter seems big to drive a 3W amp.
yeah, its going through a few changes....i put a cap at the junction of the L/R
just been trying a tda2030 too...(from a little £1.00 ebay kit..)
which is better/louder for the aux in...
i'll try the buffer in front later too.. :)...see how i get on.
perhaps also a 1k mix resistor between fet source and the othe 2 mix R's?
Hey guys, so I tried to build the punch amp/chime amp, I made a PCB on Diptrace just for fun and ordered them (I don't like to etch my own boards) Somehow I made a mistake in the process and boards don't work, all I get is a big buzz from the speaker and when I touch the bridge of the guitar it stops, but still no sound. I can't get my head on what's wrong... it's killing me right now! HELP! hahaha
Here's the board and the schematics I used, could someone tell me what's wrong with it??
(http://i.imgur.com/pLnGlrG.png) (http://i.imgur.com/AnAUSk0.png)
Do you have a ground connection from guitar to this circuit/box?
Well the input jack is grounded to the GND on the board, so I guess when it's plugged my guitar is grounded to the circuit!
you havent grounded the speaker have you...
Finally the TDA7052A wasn't working... it was from an old project, I guess I burn the pins along the way! Changed it and it works fine! WOUHOU! As anyone tried with a Boost in front of the buffer? Is there a big difference in the loundness of the amp, does the chip works correctly with a boost?
Hello There!
I am new here and to the DIY thing relating to Mini Amps.
I am starting out on hopefully an easy project. Trying to learn to read those darn schematics!
The first project is this punch amp based off those schematics. I did my best with the free layout program an I hope
I got right before I put heat and solder to the components. Any help I would gladly take! Please let me know if I got right!
Quote from: CodaBoy on December 21, 2016, 09:11:48 PM
Hello There!
I am new here and to the DIY thing relating to Mini Amps.
I am starting out on hopefully an easy project. Trying to learn to read those darn schematics!
The first project is this punch amp based off those schematics. I did my best with the free layout program an I hope
I got right before I put heat and solder to the components. Any help I would gladly take! Please let me know if I got right!
Huh?
Post the layout and the exact schematic you've used and we'll verify it by eye. These schematics for the punch are very small and very simple so there's really not much room for error - so long as you know what you're doing.
Think I'll use the punch to run a talk box.
Hi all.
I'm Carlos and i live in Portugal.
I've been reading this forum for a while now, but this is in fact my first post.
Although i'm a complete newbie and had no electronics skills until about a year ago, i managed to build the Punch amp thanks to your tips and i have to say i'm very pleased with the results when i connect my guitar straight through the amp.
However, when i connect my Zoom G1on multifx pedal the distortion sound a bit fuzzy, almost as if the speaker was broken. Cleans are ok (to my ears at least :D).
I connect my guitar to the Zoom and then to the amp. My 8" speaker came from a Vox Pathfinder 15R and if i connect Amplitube directly to it (with no amp) it sounds ok, wich leads me to believe that it's an amp issue.
Did someone notice this behaviour or did i do something wrong in the amp itself? Any tips?
I'm powering the amp with a 9V power suplly.
Thanks in advance and i'm sorry for any mistake, as my english is a little rusty... :)
You're overdriving the amp... just reduce the volume of the Zoom G1on.
Cheers.
Hi Tiago, thanks for the reply.
I'm feeling really dumb fot not thinking about that... you were right, i lowered Zoom's volume and now it's perfect.
Thanks again. :)
How does this compare to the Ruby ?
Much cleaner, louder and stable.
Hi,
I want to build a small power amp for my diy tube preamp, can I drop the input stage and tie in before or after C1? And should R2 and R3 in the circuit as well?
I want to feed it with a 12V, and the output will be a 8 Ohm 12" guitar speaker (Celectrion V-type)
Quote from: chptunes on February 12, 2013, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: petey twofinger on February 12, 2013, 12:40:03 PM
i see there is a tda7052 a than has a volume lug on the chip as well .
you run the pot from ground to pin 4 . i wonder what the benifit of this design is . oh well , i ordered 5 so i guess i will never know unless i bought the normal ones and a/b'ed em .
Beware. I also built my Punch with the TDA7052A chip, and some changes are required. R3 (10k) should be omitted. The DC Volume (Pin 4) is at full gain with a 1M Resistor to Ground.. 100k is a about half volume, and is a nice fixed level for living room use in my experience.
My Punch project morphed into this:
(http://s6.postimage.org/48alhz65t/1w_Punch_Optimized_for_PP3_R001_page_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
-Corey
I have a couple of questions about this amp. First, why is 10k omitted when using the volume control on pin 4? Next question i know is kind of stupid, but do both outputs from pin 5 and 8 go to speaker+ and speaker- to ground? Or 5 to + and 8 to - , and i dont connect the speaker - to ground? Thanks!
not sure on the 100k,
but don't connect the output to ground...
5 and 8 connect to speaker yes.
Guys a cuestión, can i hook up a 4 ohm speaker to this amp?
Quick question: I connected 5 to speaker+ and 8 to speaker- , however the - on the jack is automatically connected to the encolusure, which is connected to the ground. So 8 is connected to speaker- and ground, the speaker is muted. How do i get around this? Do i put electrical tape around the jack where it touches the enclosure? Thanks
Electrical tape won't last.
Use a plastic jack, or purpose-made fiber bushings, or mount the metal jack in a plastic sub-panel.
Hi, sorry for bumping this topic but I'm having a really hard time figuring out what to replace the TDA7052A with.
I'm new to pedal/amp building so I figured a simple amp would be a good place to start. Unfortunately the TDA7052A has been obsolete for a while. The only place I can find them is ebay. Considering how prevalent counterfeit components are (I've had issues on other projects) I figured it would be safer to start with something that's still in production.
My problem is while I have a bit of experience with electronics, I'm still new to the audio side of things so I'm not super sure what I'm looking for. I've been on digikey trying to filter by what seem to be relevant characteristics from the TDA7052A chip and came up with the TDA8551. But I don't know enough to be confident that this would be a suitable replacement. Could anyone confirm that this would work? The only issue I can see is it has a max operating voltage of 5.5v, but other than having to supply it with the correct voltage, I'm not sure what else would be affected.
Another possiblity is the LM386 but I see a lot of negative comments about these so I'm skittish on it too.
Obviously nothing would be a direct drop in replacement. I'm planning on using the Punch's schematics to work my way back and make whatever changes I need to since I'm mostly doing this to learn afterall. I just want to know that I'm starting off with a usable amp chip.
Thanks and sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm pretty sure it is but I'm also pretty stuck.
Quote from: kita on May 18, 2018, 01:37:42 AM
Hi, sorry for bumping this topic but I'm having a really hard time figuring out what to replace the TDA7052A with.
I'm new to pedal/amp building so I figured a simple amp would be a good place to start. Unfortunately the TDA7052A has been obsolete for a while. The only place I can find them is ebay. Considering how prevalent counterfeit components are (I've had issues on other projects) I figured it would be safer to start with something that's still in production.
My problem is while I have a bit of experience with electronics, I'm still new to the audio side of things so I'm not super sure what I'm looking for. I've been on digikey trying to filter by what seem to be relevant characteristics from the TDA7052A chip and came up with the TDA8551. But I don't know enough to be confident that this would be a suitable replacement. Could anyone confirm that this would work? The only issue I can see is it has a max operating voltage of 5.5v, but other than having to supply it with the correct voltage, I'm not sure what else would be affected.
Another possiblity is the LM386 but I see a lot of negative comments about these so I'm skittish on it too.
Obviously nothing would be a direct drop in replacement. I'm planning on using the Punch's schematics to work my way back and make whatever changes I need to since I'm mostly doing this to learn afterall. I just want to know that I'm starting off with a usable amp chip.
Thanks and sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm pretty sure it is but I'm also pretty stuck.
There are several issues with TDA8551, namely:
1. It has digital volume control and after power-up you have to send some number of pulses to control pin to turn the volume up.
2. Pinout of these are different
Sadly, LM386 is the only non-obsolete "just a 9V amplifier" 8-pin chip that you can find. I've looked into TPA1517, it's made by Texas Instruments, but it's bigger, it's stereo, and needs 12V supply minimum.
The Lm386 is tried and true and schematics and layouts abound on the web. Look for the Smokey Amp,,it is just the lm386 with two capacitors. It works, but. Also, look at the Little Gem on the Runoffgroove website. I would suggest forgetting the 25K Master volume and replace with a 10k to 100k pot on the input. You can also use a 1k to 10k pot for the gain, or leave pins 1 and 8 unconnected.
Another good chip is the TDA2822m, or L. Renegadrian has a simple vero layout in the Layouts Gallery above. Use the advanced search for TDA2822m. This amp is cleaner and a bit more powerful than the Lm386 and works quite well on 6 volts or even with a 5 volt phone charger.
Thanks so much guys!
I'm not overly fussed about the voltage since I plan on running it from a power supply anyway, although the idea of running it off of a few 18650s is really appealing.
Going to order a few of all the chips mentioned and have a go trying out all those amps and maybe some random pedals while I'm at it. Thanks again!
Hi! I was thinking about making this...
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzWnLcgZ/Screenshot-20220206-152028.png) (https://postimg.cc/qzWnLcgZ)
It,s Lovepedal JTM as a preamp going into TDA7052 with buffer in front of PA. One weird thing would be switch and jacks as FX loop so if I want different flavour I can stick different preamp, boost or pedal before PA and dont use JTM...
Whats your opinion to this?