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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: midwayfair on October 13, 2012, 06:15:58 PM

Title: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on October 13, 2012, 06:15:58 PM
Ray Ring started a thread for his delay recently, but nothing for this particular circuit. I love compressors and the Orange Squeezer particularly, so when I saw this I pretty much had to build it. This is an outstanding sounding compressor. It sounds a lot like an Orange Squeezer, but involves no biasing (so you know yours is actually working as a compressor), and the compression knob can be run all the way down to work as more of a boost all the way up to a really hard squish.

Here's the schematic from his website for the simplified version (original version is here: http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/compressor3.gif):
(http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/compressor3.gif)

This can also be built fairly cheaply -- although his original schematic calls for a fairly expensive OP amp, I found that an LM358 worked very well, too. The only other uncommon part is the H11F1, which can be picked up for a couple bucks from Mouser.

Here's a verified small perfboard layout for his "simplified" version. Keep in mind that the spacing may be a little tight for full sized electrolytics and 1uF box caps, but I did this layout to fit in a 1590A.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9878279/Jon%20Patton%27s%20layouts/opto-squeeze%201.2.png)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9878279/Jon%20Patton%27s%20layouts/opto-squeeze%201.2.pdf

[Sorry for the giant images, for some reason they won't resize.]

Edit: Replaced a corrupted picture file.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on October 14, 2012, 04:13:05 PM
Ray noted some distortion on minimum comp settings, so I did some more testing and discovered that disconnecting the Comp pot from ground corrected the problem nicely. Among the benefits of this is that the circuit now seems to work with a polarized sustain cap (just like in the regular squeezer), and a separate resistor can be used (completely optional) if you wish to adjust the decay. My layout has been updated.

Edit 8:30pm: Ugh, nevermind. After boxing it, I found that this lowered the output way too much and killed a lot of the compression control (no boost anymore :(). The better solution was a resistor between the Comp knob's Lug2 and IC1 pin 5. This constricts the compression range a little, but it doesn't distort on the lowest settings and can still get well above unity.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: rockhorst on October 14, 2012, 04:44:43 PM
I have one of those opto chips to spare...maybe this is a good destination for it.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: John Lyons on October 14, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
Cool stuff Jon. I need to try this as well.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on October 17, 2012, 10:53:21 AM
the distortion seems to have been tied to the voltage (anything >200mA) across the opto-FET. Ray Ring just posted a solution to the distortion issue on his blog:
http://circuitsalad.com/2012/10/17/opto-fet-issue-solved-with-negative-feedback/

"By applying shunt feedback from the Drain to the Gate of the first JFET stage of my compressor, I reduce VDS across the optofet  by a factor of 5! So with a input of 1 volt, the the VDS of the optofet is about 200mV worst case. Now it performs beautifully. The feedback consists of a 470k ohm resistor in series with a .1uF cap from drain to gate. Now the source must be bypassed with a 10uF cap where before it was optional. The gain of the stage with this feedback is now about 4. What happens is that the feedback subtracts from the input at the optofet drain node greatly reducing the VDS across the voltage controlled resistor while still providing gain."

Hopefully there will be an updated schematic. I'll be updating my layout after I can get home and test/verify it. This looks like a MUCH better solution than my hack. Looks like I'll need to revisit it a little.

Hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, I'm just excited when I see innovation in compressors. :)
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Processaurus on October 18, 2012, 09:35:09 PM
Thanks for pointing this out, I'd never seen his site before.  Looks like an interesting designer in the pedal world, as he is comfortable using modern parts and MOSFETs.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on October 30, 2012, 09:27:55 PM
Thought I'd update this thread now that I've boxed up my build. I ended up even further simplifying his design: I simply grounded the FET sources and ended up saving a couple parts and getting a little more output.

Ray posted his new version in another thread recently. I ended up not using his shunt feedback fix because it lowered the output below unity on comp settings past noon; I figured it was easier to just not use the lowest compression setting on higher output pickups than to deal with the volume drop.

Alternatively, I could see applying the shunt feedback mod and then changing the output stage to a pretty standard MOSFET booster. This would give you a big gain boost on the output without contributing much in the way of noise. I'm kind of done messing with it, though -- I like how it sounds with the comp knob near noon, and my guitars don't distort it, so that's good enough for me. :)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9878279/Jon%20Patton%27s%20layouts/Opto-squeeze%201.4.png)

Here's mine (the perf is a little different from the above layout because I changed it a little after it was done and had some standing resistors in a previous layout):
(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/feta-salad-compressor.jpg?h=300)(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/feta-salad-guts.jpg?h=300)
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: rring on November 03, 2012, 05:12:21 PM
Midwayfair did alot of work the tweaking this design and I have to thank him for figuring out that the LM358 will work in these ground referenced op amps designs. To extend this even further I have worked up a new design that uses 2N7000 or other generic enhancement mosfets for the gain stage and voltage controlled resistor. It uses the LM358 and any silicon diodes you please. I added an LED driver that gives a visual indication of compression level by changing the intensity of the LED.  There is lots of room to play with this thing - in terms of gain, attack, decay, etc. Many of my component values are non critical and I am still tweaking values myself  as I try different guitars, playing styles, etc. I hope someone will try building this and hopefully make some improvements as Midwayfair did with the opto version.

I have a board layout which is verified and is an expresspcb file that anyone can use as they please. Its available at www.circuitsalad.com.

here is a picture:
(http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/img_5198.jpg)

here is the schematic:
(http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mosfet-compressor.gif)

demo:
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on November 03, 2012, 06:26:45 PM
Cool -- I like the idea of the compression indicator! Some nice "pop" in sound on the demo, too. Thanks for sharing this one, and for sharing your PCB files.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on March 28, 2013, 11:21:26 PM
Ray revised his Opto-FET comp design recently. So of course I built the new version. It's excellent. It has a lot of the attack characteristics from his MOSFET compressor, with a decay pretty much identical to the Orange Squeezer. The tone is a bit more transparent (not nearly as bright), it's quieter, and the threshold (compression) control is much, MUCH better than in the first version. It doesn't squash as hard as the MOSFET compressor, but now it really does sound like a better Orange Squeezer.

It's also fewer parts than either compressor now. Amazing job for how few components are involved.

(http://jonpattonmusic.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/optofet-squeezer-revisited.jpg?h=450)

New layout:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9878279/Jon%20Patton%27s%20layouts/Opto-squeeze%201.5.png)
(I used 22K in place of the 100K on the input for a brighter sound.)

Current schematic:
http://circuitsalad.com/2013/03/02/the-opto-compressor-revisited-simple-and-works-well/
(http://circuitsaladdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/simple-opto-comp1.gif?w=800)

I might do a layout for this one in Eagle, single or double sided.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 29, 2013, 08:49:18 PM
Chips and darlingtons ordered.
Thanks guys. i'm gonna try this compressor.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 29, 2013, 08:55:28 PM
what is the H11F1M thing and where can i get one pls
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on March 29, 2013, 09:02:20 PM
what is the H11F1M thing and where can i get one pls

IT's an opto-FET, a chip-based type of optocoupler. You should be able to find it at mouser.

Tayda sells a bunch of chips like it. If you want, I can see if some work tomorrow morning (I have pretty much all the different kinds tayda sells). It's also possible to use a regular optocoupler, though you need really, really low light resistance and a fast response.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 29, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
i got one on ebay thanks jon
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 29, 2013, 09:18:02 PM
i'm intrested to see the ones on Tayda if you have a link though.
thanks
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 29, 2013, 09:21:51 PM
i found some on Tayda, I am intrested to see if they work in the circuit though please Jon
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on March 29, 2013, 11:52:20 PM
i found some on Tayda, I am intrested to see if they work in the circuit though please Jon

I couldn't get any of the chips Tayda sells to work just by plugging them in, but there could be some way to make it happen. If I get them to work I'll post it here.

If you order a few of their generic photocells, you can use one that measures above 1M dark and below 2K light. I found a couple that worked, but they vary widely, so order more than just one or two. It's not as good as using the H11F1 (which has more predictable results and a better attack), but you can use a socket and plug in the chip later. I did sometimes get a little distortion, so there may be other issues that need solving if you go this route. It's not adequately tested and keep in mind that it won't function the way the pedal is meant to.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on March 30, 2013, 05:28:57 AM
i ordered a couple of octocouplers H11f1 from china. i hope theyre ok
they have the fairchild F on them but they could be fakes so i wont know until i try them now.
i like making compressors too . Does it show?
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: duck_arse on March 30, 2013, 10:35:53 AM
Quote
It's also possible to use a regular optocoupler

jon, do you mean led - transistor/darlington, or led - ldr?
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on March 30, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
Quote
It's also possible to use a regular optocoupler

jon, do you mean led - transistor/darlington, or led - ldr?

It's *possible* to use LED+LDR. I don't think it sounds as good, mainly due to the light memory and the time it takes to fire up, though the VTL5C1 has similar turn on time to the chip. The H11F1 is also cheap ... part of the reason I was originally excited about this design, actually.

Incidentally, I talked to Ray a bit over e-mail about some other aspects of this particular design if anyone's wondering about a few parts:
1. R4 (the 470K base > ground) basically sets the maximum compression swing, linearizing the response some.
2. In my version, I built it with a 22K on the input, instead of 100K. Ray did the math, and the difference in volume attenuation (assuming the LED in the chip turns on fully) is negligible, so you can in some ways control the overall brightness of the effect by changing that resistor. I like my compressors to be slightly brighter.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 02, 2013, 11:24:25 AM
I've just started populating the board and i already cant wait for the opto's to arrive even though it's going to be a couple of weeks comng from china.
Hurry up already
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: alparent on April 02, 2013, 12:43:42 PM
I think the H11F1M is FET based. None of the one at Tayda or FET based.

When I got my multiplex board, Josh was nice enough to sell me a couple extra H11F1M.......so I have all I need to try this one.  ;D
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 02, 2013, 01:55:30 PM
heres the bare bones board

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ma9n53c5jqdgsr/d-0TvwYXDL#f:opto%20fet%20comp.jpg
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 12, 2013, 02:49:34 PM
i had my transistor the wrong way round
It's a great little compressor with lots of squish.
it looses some high freqauncys when the compression is flat out but i expected that.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on April 12, 2013, 02:52:32 PM
Please note for future builders if you use the MPSA14 transistor the oreintation is incorrect in the above layout.
As jon Pointed out when i debugged mine.
It's a great little compressor with lots of squish.
it looses some high freqauncys when the compression is flat out but i expected that.


I've fixed the layout. It's correct now.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 12, 2013, 03:25:37 PM
Great stuff. I love it when i build something i cant stop playing with and i was wrong theres no real drop off in the highs to my ears.
i'm going to put it through its paces infront of and behind some other pedals just to see how it behaves.
Which pin do i connect the the anode of the led to on the op amp was it pin 7?
How do I make the attack adjustable please?
BTW thanks to R Ring at Circuit salad too
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on April 12, 2013, 03:38:31 PM
Which pin do i connect the the anode of the led to on the op amp was it pin 7?

Yes, it's pin 7 in the schematic.

How do I make the attack adjustable please?

What are you trying to accomplish by adjusting the attack? You're limited by how fast the LED turns on and how fast the opto-FET can respond. You can put a 1nF cap across the comp pot to maybe slow it down a little, but you can't make it faster. Also, that's technically just raising the threshold, which is exactly the same thing as turning down the compression pot. You could change the LED limiting resistor (R5) to make it easier or harder for the LED to light up, which could give the impression of a different attack but is really affecting the threshold. This is a limitation of most compressors - it's very rare for the attack to actually be adjustable. The DECAY, on the other hand, is adjustable. You could pull R8 and stick a 1M pot in there (probably with some minimum resistance, like 100K) and see where that gets you.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 12, 2013, 03:45:14 PM
It's very well behaved.
I tried it in front of and behind my boss SD1 and i liked it best after the SD1.
Depending on the pick up used (strat) the compression needs a little differant setting or it can sound a bit poppy. if you know what i mean.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 12, 2013, 06:18:40 PM
I'm loving the LED compression idicator mod. It'd look good driving a pair of led's as eyes with the right graphics on the box.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: PRR on April 12, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
> How do I make the attack adjustable please?

Snip diode. Insert resistor.

(http://i.imgur.com/oKkQJWv.gif)

1K is probably inaudible. 100K is very slow; also upsets levels.

Try several fixed resistors before you pick a pot.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on April 12, 2013, 08:40:28 PM
> How do I make the attack adjustable please?

Snip diode. Insert resistor.

(http://i.imgur.com/oKkQJWv.gif)

1K is probably inaudible. 100K is very slow; also upsets levels.

Try several fixed resistors before you pick a pot.

Hah! Right. This is a resistor that's usually there in envelope circuits, and it didn't even occur to me that it wasn't in this one.

I'm loving the LED compression idicator mod. It'd look good driving a pair of led's as eyes with the right graphics on the box.

If you use a red and a green, they'll light up at slightly different compression levels (though those will be fairly low levels to be fair). Not sure it can drive more than two.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 13, 2013, 02:49:16 AM
That would be D3 in your layout then Jon?
and thanks for the responses. Once i get home from the grandkids later i'll give it a whirl.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: midwayfair on April 13, 2013, 08:44:24 AM
That would be D3 in your layout then Jon?

It's the diode attached to Pin1 and pin 6, the one to the right-hand side of the chip.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 13, 2013, 09:11:08 AM
Thats the one D3 i see from the schematic people are using 1n4148s.
I used a 1N4002 for all the diodes.
thats probably why i'm getting a lot of compression.
I'll try this mod with a 50k pot first and see how i like it.
I guess lug 1 and 2 are bound together and lug 3 goes to other end of where D3 was.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: PRR on April 14, 2013, 01:42:49 AM
'4148 versus '4007 won't be a big difference.
Title: Re: Circuit Salad's *Optical* Orange Squeezer -- layout and discussion
Post by: Kipper4 on April 14, 2013, 05:45:05 AM
thanks ppr
i couldnt make the attack knob mod work.
i tried it with 5k , 20k 100k pot wired to lug 2 and 1 and all it did was start farting when it got to the end of the pots range. no discernable differance in attack