A search didn't turn this up--does anyone have a schem/layout for, if not a Boss VB-1, then some other clean, good-sounding vibrato?  (I do mean Vibrato, not trem!)  I noticed the lo-fi schem posted not long ago, but I wonder how hard it would be to build a nonn-tone-sucking one.

Hey there!

If you think of the VB-2 as an analog delay (about 4ms) and try to find a high-quality delay circuit that goes that short, set the output for all wet, and add modulation, you're halfway there.

The cool thing about the VB-2 is the rise time in unlatch mode. I think that's been discussed here before, but I'm not sure there was any info on how to accomplish that effect. Basically, it just seems like there is a lag in the depth control when you engage the effect. Similar in theory to the modulation delay on an analog synth.

J., have you messed with a real VB-2? I have one. it's very cool, but it's not what I would grab to get me that vintage Magnatone-style vibrato. This thing is really more like a flanger with no resonance and no mixing of dry signal with it. As far as not "tone-sucking", the VB-2 has three modes. One is just totally off, the other two are ALWAYS going through a short delay (all wet) and when you engage the pedal, it introduces the modulation to get the vibrato. That thing was as far from true-bypass as they get!

Roger

You can create vibrato with ANY phase shifter, chorus, or flanger, by simply lifting the connection of the dry signal at the active or passive mixing stage near the output of the pedal.

There are some provisos/caveats, though.

1) MORE delay and MORE phase shift produces MORE pitch shifting, and sometimes that can be too much.  I wouldn't consider "vibe-modding" a modulation pedal unless there was either little pitch-shifting to begin with (e.g., a 2-stage phaser), or some means of reducing the amount of pitch-shifting (generally done with sweep width adjustment of the LFO).

2) A great many commercial modulation pedals that use FET switching to disable the effect, actually use a single FET to lift the modulated portion of the signal to "bypass" the effect.  If you cancel the dry portion to achieve a vibrato effect and hit the bypass button, you will have nothing connected to the mixing stage, hence no output except for the hiss of that last stage.  There ARE ways around this, but you need to be aware of this limitation.

3) The Boss VB-1/2 uses an OTA to ramp up the modulation amount over time and produce delayed vibrato.  Modding a commercial pedal by lifting the dry signal will not achieve this on its own.  It can sound quite good, but it will produce the exact same amount of vibrato no matter what you're doing, and won't sound like a VB-1/2.

I think that a clone of the MXR Phase 90 is probably an excellent place to start if you want a vibrato effect with minimum cost, parts, and fuss.

Mark beat me to it...

The smallstone and smallclone can both be (relatively) easily modified for vibrato, depending on the 'type' of sound you're after. Just lift the resistor that mixes in the clean signal at the output buffer.

I've got some clips of both on my website, wavy gravy (smallclone), frankenstone (smallstone).

With the smallstone, you also have the option to disable any of the four phase stages for some variety of character.

~ Charlie

Oh, just remembered there is an awesome thread here, fairly recent, about the Boss DC-2 Dimension C. Modding that for vibrato doesn't look straightforward to me, tho.

~ Charlie

Quote from: RodgreJ., have you messed with a real VB-2? I have one. it's very cool, but it's not what I would grab to get me that vintage Magnatone-style vibrato. This thing is really more like a flanger with no resonance and no mixing of dry signal with it. As far as not "tone-sucking", the VB-2 has three modes. One is just totally off, the other two are ALWAYS going through a short delay (all wet) and when you engage the pedal, it introduces the modulation to get the vibrato. That thing was as far from true-bypass as they get!

Hey, Roger!  I shoulda known you'd be here.  The answer is no--I never have played one.  I mentioned it because it seems to be the standard, "collectible" go-to Vibrato that people look for.  I HAVE played the Magnatone vibrato, though, and that I love.  But it's a tube circuit, correct?

I actually do manage to get a nice vibrato out of an old DOD pedal I have--the 575 Performer flanger.  It is a VERY good pedal, surprisingly, and rather obscure, but it's 18v and I'm hoping to find a nice uncolored vibrato that I can daisychain with my other compact 9v effects.

Also, it would be fun to build one, of course...

...and the schematic of the vb2 can be found here...

http://www.godiksennet.com/default.asp?main=Schematics

Well, sonically, the VB-2 is like your DOD Flanger, but with the dry signal removed. I remember when I first played the VB-2, I was a little dissappointed, because I was used to the sound of a chorus or flanger set to a fast rate. I learned to find some cool bizarre uses for the VB-2, inspired by Graham Coxon of Blur, of course.

Just so everyone knows, the Boss VB-2 is not at all like the vintage warble of a Magnatone or Ampeg vibrato. That can be had with an Auralux King Trem or somewhat with a Univibe clone. The sound you get from a VB-2 is not unlike an old rack delay set to all wet. I wrote an article about it here:
http://volcanoboy.com/modules/articles/article.php?id=2

Roger

This project looks a little bit tedious, but it promises stereo vibrato a la magnatone.
http://www.moosapotamus.com/Vibrato-Matic_a.jpg
http://www.moosapotamus.com/Vibrato-Matic_b.jpg
http://www.moosapotamus.com/Vibrato-Matic_c.jpg
Haven't yet built it myself, but it's on my list. :wink:

~ Charlie

Actually then perhaps I am misremembering my Magnatone music store experience, because it isn't the phased-vibrato sound I'm after.  Just the pitch shift.  I LOVE the sound of a sine-like vibtaro, very subtle, so that it's almost but not quite indistinguishable from tremolo.

I wonder if I can trick my Ibanez Prime Dual Chorus to do it?  It has a flanger on it though I always keep it set to Chorus...

Thanks for those excellent links, you guys!  Some of those Boss schems actually have layout diagrams as well, great for a newbie to study...

Chicken Salad, eh, Rodgre?  I wonder how hard it would be to build it into a Bud box with nice pots and true bypass...

wow you just won the prize of the weirdest sounding stompbox collection ever!

they're great - especially the univibe, great quality

Quote from: moosapotamusMark beat me to it...

The smallstone and smallclone can both be (relatively) easily modified for vibrato, depending on the 'type' of sound you're after. Just lift the resistor that mixes in the clean signal at the output buffer.

I've got some clips of both on my website, wavy gravy (smallclone), frankenstone (smallstone).

With the smallstone, you also have the option to disable any of the four phase stages for some variety of character.

~ Charlie

Quote from: barret77wow you just won the prize of the weirdest sounding stompbox collection ever!

I agree.  I am delighted that somebody hacked the Rattle Crow.  I'm dying to build one now....

Post 'em if you build 'em.    

Thanks
~ Charlie

E-H Worm `vibrato`mode can give you "M*gnat*ne"-Vibrato sound (tube-less, though);
"SmallStone"(wet only) - LFO gives you an unsymmetrical up/down feel...;
most BBD based flanger/chorus pedals used as vibrato (wet only mode),
will have a certain "delay between string & ear";
E-H Wiggler `vibrato` mode can give you "V*X" AC30 -Vibrato sound (tube...) plus a variety of others, that haven`t existed before...

(brag brag brag  :lol: )

There doesn't seem to be many magnatone vibrato-amp schematics floating out there on the web.  There does, however, seem to be someone duplicating the vibrato in a stand-alone tube effects package:

From Vibroworld
"...This is what the Vibroman 2.0 Stereo Tube Effects is designed from, using the very same Varistor arrangement as the Magnatone Model 280"

4 questions...

1) what IS a varistor?

2) Does anyone have the schematic to this amp?

3) If #2, has anyone tried to duplicate this, using the jfet-for-tube technique outlined on runoffgroove?

4) would this even work?!?!  :wink:

just thinking out loud...

free information sucks...
A nice 6stage variation with multiple sound-settings is the TUBE-WAHBRATO  (no VDRs, though) :

So, uh, does that come in one of those plug-it-directly-into-your-guitar forms like the LPB-1, Dan Armstrong effects, or some of the old Jen/Jordan effects?   :lol:

Wow... thanks for the info!
 

Quote from: Mark HammerSo, uh, does that come in one of those plug-it-directly-into-your-guitar forms like the LPB-1, Dan Armstrong effects, or some of the old Jen/Jordan effects?   :lol:

the footprint of that box is slightly smaller that the E-H "diamond" enclosure,
but the "wallet-punch-factor" is comparable to the tubes-hood in that pic  :lol: