POPPING SOLUTION?

Started by Lbzg, July 28, 2013, 05:15:00 AM

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Jdansti

Pedals can pop for many reasons, and when it happens, it's almost never a simple thing to diagnose and fix. No conspiracies!  ;)

Here's what I would do next:  Take detailed photos of both sides of the board(s) and off-board components. Be sure to show how everything is connected. Submit the photos for forum review and comment.

This has gotten to the point where you really need to have some experienced people look for physical problems, incorrect component values, etc. Don't assume (not that you do) that because the thing works except for the pop, that the build itself has been done 100% correctly.
  • SUPPORTER
R.G. Keene: EXPECT there to be errors, and defeat them...

R O Tiree

I think that GGBB might have provided something that will help, here... I notice that a lot of your caps are ceramic ones. Look at this video.  He's a bit of a nerd, and I think that when he taps the solder side of the board he's actually making electrical connections with his fingers, but when he taps the tin or the cap itself, the noise is very audible.

The vibration as you press the footswitch might well be getting picked up by your ceramic caps and, given that the circuits that you are hearing pops from are all high-gain ones, then I think this might be a part of your problem.

Try replacing your ceramic caps with box caps.  Obviously, with some of the really small values you have no choice but to go for ceramics, but anything 1nF and above you can get box-cap replacements.
...you fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way...

Lbzg

Amazing...didn't noticed this before...although I have noticed that back of PCB if touched produces a sound and sometimes kills the effect...ok but what with those guides and layouts that says that ceramics needs to be incorporated and that sound is better with them, and can someone confirm that it is having pop with ceramics and not with metal film's?

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptic about it but I will try it.

Also I wouldn't mind for more help so we can have some more plans to work with...

I would also like to mentioned that I'm heading to my vacation and will be off board for while but I will reply on it as soon as I can but also please send me all the helpful tips you can in meanwhile.   

R O Tiree

Yes, if you touch the solder side of the board you are going to get weird noises and drop-outs, for sure. Just try tapping the caps and see what happens...
...you fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way...

Lbzg

Ok. will try it.

And can you guys send me pics of your nonpopping pedals, wiring of switch and whole insides? please just so i can compare them.

tranceracer

#65
Another thing you may want to try is breadboard a DPDT relay w/ soft switch.  For some reason some ckts that had loud pops when stomp switch was uses but were greatly reduced to just a "tic" but not noticeable while playing w/ relay switching.

I posted a diy tactile switch a while back:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=66856.0

Lbzg

Interesting, and thanks.

I will first wait for some members with nonpopping pedals to post pics and to see what switching they use. I have found that switching from guitar fx layouts is best but it produces a pop, and also I have found that it can be reduced over the switching methods. Can someone elaborate that?

bluebunny

Check out any of my submissions to the Pictures thread.  I'm using the tonepad wiring schema (which is pretty much the same as many others mentioned here) and none of my pedals pop.  I use both 3PDT and DPDT (with Millennium-2), depending on my mood at the time.
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Ohm's Law - much like Coles Law, but with less cabbage...

deadastronaut

^ offboard  wiring 5 then using 3pdt. :icon_cool:
http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=76

i usually use the gaussmarkov setup, but i will try this version as i have a 'thump' on a particular build too...which is f..... annoying.. :icon_evil:
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//

bluebunny

Yep, that's the one Rob.  #5 for 3PDT and #3 for DPDT+M2.
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Ohm's Law - much like Coles Law, but with less cabbage...

Kipper4

Intresting stuff guys.
I think i like the look of the effect input to ground on bypass. I always wondered how that was possible.
I'll try to impliment this in a future build.
THANKS
Ma throats as dry as an overcooked kipper.


Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

mistahead

Quote from: Lbzg on August 02, 2013, 12:19:59 PM
I have tried different guitar and even with an acoustic with pickup and it still pops.

This is absolutely frustrating and I don't know what frustrates me more; popping of pedals or silence from all those people on this forum that have convinced me that it can be solved...ok...

I think that we all need to focus on my first post on this tread and look into how to calculate those values because this is for people that are having this problem...or wanna be sure that it won't happen ever again or never...

Please, listen what I'm saying...I know you all have pedals that don't pop...maybe you have done something different, maybe you know something we others don't, maybe you are simply lucky in building this, maybe this is just one big prank...I don't care and don't need to know anyone's reasons but I know that when ANY manufacturer does't wanna share something that it is something that no one knows and it gives him advantage in front of the others...I tell You all that this must be a link that is missing...I'm no engineer and don't have degree in any related science but some of  you do, and if you are part of this community, and wanna help others, this is occasion where you can shine...

 

And I'm officially done - the pedals are faulty and will need to be fired into deep ocean, built again, fired into the deep ocean again, and then maybe the third set will work without popping. THAT is the lie we keep telling you - our secret.

Standing in a fire while holding your popping pedals to the sky and shouting "FORESAKEN!!!!" might also help.

Have a nice day.

Jdansti

Quote from: Lbzg on August 03, 2013, 06:23:14 AM
Interesting, and thanks.

I will first wait for some members with nonpopping pedals to post pics and to see what switching they use. I have found that switching from guitar fx layouts is best but it produces a pop, and also I have found that it can be reduced over the switching methods. Can someone elaborate that?

Just look at the pictures thread. 99.99% of those pedals don't pop.

Rather than looking at photos that copy the two or three ubiquitous wiring schemes that are pasted all over the web, why not post photos of your popping pedals and get some help?  If you're following the same design as everyone else, and your pedal pops and everyone else's doesn't, the most likely culprit is an inadvertent error in your build.
  • SUPPORTER
R.G. Keene: EXPECT there to be errors, and defeat them...

mistahead

God I hope we're not trying to solve the mechanical-percussive "CH'GUNK" sounds stepping on stomp-switch provides, or some momentary type "silent" switching noise...  as opposed to true pop/click...

Either that or there really is someone trying to steal our not-yet-patented silent-switching ANIT-POP technology... I shudder...

deadastronaut

Quote from: bluebunny on August 04, 2013, 04:43:18 PM
Yep, that's the one Rob.  #5 for 3PDT and #3 for DPDT+M2.

cool, i'l wire up a 3pdt toggle that way for my breadboard and see if there is any difference too as a test.....cheers man.

its funny my

rebote 2.5
small clone , clone chorus..reverb.....no click at all..wired as per gaussmarkov.

but my phase 45 does...like i say ill try this on bread, and if better i'll rewire my phaser...etc etc.....i'll post results. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//

bluebunny

The only ones I have ever had pop were designs with no pull-down resistor at the front (e.g. my beloved Small Clone clone).  Easily fixed, and not a symptom of any particular wiring scheme - just an omission in the original circuit design.
  • SUPPORTER
Ohm's Law - much like Coles Law, but with less cabbage...

deadastronaut

yep, i noticed that too...same with phase 45. no pulldown..

i'll try croc clipping a 1M across the 3pdt  pcb in - ground ..see if that works. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//

earthtonesaudio

As many other have said a video or audio recording of the pop would be very helpful.

And I'm also interested in whether it's a purely mechanical noise or perhaps mechanical noise being picked up by microphonic components.

A quick test to verify would be: unplug EVERYTHING, turn the amp off, remove headphones, put the guitar in its case.  Do the pedals still pop?  If yes then the pop is at least partially mechanical in nature.  Next, is the sound of the pop markedly different from before?  If yes then you can safely say the pop is also somehow coupling in with the signal.

Eliminate the impossible first...

bluebunny

Quote from: earthtonesaudio on August 05, 2013, 08:19:49 AM
As many other have said a video or audio recording of the pop would be very helpful.

And I'm also interested in whether it's a purely mechanical noise or perhaps mechanical noise being picked up by microphonic components.

A quick test to verify would be: unplug EVERYTHING, turn the amp off, remove headphones, put the guitar in its case.  Do the pedals still pop?  If yes then the pop is at least partially mechanical in nature.  Next, is the sound of the pop markedly different from before?  If yes then you can safely say the pop is also somehow coupling in with the signal.

Eliminate the impossible first...

This is a very good point.  Some of those footswitches are bloody loud!
  • SUPPORTER
Ohm's Law - much like Coles Law, but with less cabbage...

deadastronaut

^ yes they can,  but i can see the pop in my vu, so its not entirely mechanical. :)
https://www.youtube.com/user/100roberthenry
https://deadastronaut.wixsite.com/effects

chasm reverb/tremshifter/faze filter/abductor II delay/timestream reverb/dreamtime delay/skinwalker hi gain dist/black triangle OD/ nano drums/space patrol fuzz//