Slightly OT - the nicest chorus sound ever?

[Prive]

Hi, i never see anybody writing about the best stereo chorus unit i know in this forum.
To me the Boss CE-3, it have the obvious 2 knobs and the third is a stereo selector, position one is out of phase between the two outputs and the second position is like the JC-120 chorus in A and dry signal in B.
I love this pedal, of course i have it, it's Japan, from mid 80's.
I'd like to see the schem too, but i don't understand why nobody never ask for it here.

Saludos y feliz navidad a todos.

[Rodgre]

The Roland and Boss Dimension units are very lush and fat.

Mine is still up for sale or trade http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=16333



But come on, doesn't anybody know what chorus is used on All Or Nothing by the Small Faces ?  :cry:

Surely there weren't that many chorus effects in those days to choose from.

I've never tried the Digital Dimension. I love the analog DC-2 for sure, though. I'll try to find a copy of that Small Faces tune, but if it's from before the early/mid 70's, it's not a chorus.

Roger

[smoguzbenjamin]

I had a boss CE-2 for a while (was my very first effect pedal), but it wasn't thick and lush enough for me. Ahhh, the days of the 2-knob chorus... Now all my FX have at least 3 knobs! lol

[Ed G.]

I don't know about "All or Nothing" cause I've never heard it, but "Itchykoo Park" used tape flanging.

The Roland and Boss Dimension units are very lush and fat.

Mine is still up for sale or trade http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=16333



But come on, doesn't anybody know what chorus is used on All Or Nothing by the Small Faces ?  :cry:

Surely there weren't that many chorus effects in those days to choose from.

I've never tried the Digital Dimension. I love the analog DC-2 for sure, though. I'll try to find a copy of that Small Faces tune, but if it's from before the early/mid 70's, it's not a chorus.

Roger

[Mark Hammer]

Much of the pre-mid-70s chorus effects were the result of doing multiple takes with the artist attempting to sing or play the same licks.  These provide generally the richest sounding chorus effects because they are, in fact, a chorus, and not an attempt to emulate a chorus using a single monophonic source and electronic manipulation.  What makes it *sound* like a chorus is the fact that it is generakky aperiodic.  Where an LFO-swept chorus varies the pitch of the effect signal in a predictable way, two or more people attempting to play/sing the same thing do not.  They also tend not to have the identical timbre which also varies in a minimally predictable way.  

Electronic emulations of this work best when there is no apparent regular sweep of the pitch/delay.  That can happen in a few ways.  One is certainly to use something that approximates an aperiodic sweep generator.  This could be some random voltage source like a noise generator heavily filtered to produce a sweep in the sub-audio (<20hz) range at any point in time.  Another is the use of several independent unsynced LFOs mixed down to provide something that does not go up and down in a predictable manner.

Of course aperiodic sweep can be used to drive one single BBD or more than one.  A richer sound (because it simulates multipletracks of the same performer a little more authentically) is achieved by what are referred to as "multi-phase" chorusses, which employ multiple BBD-based chorus "modules" that are not synced to each other.  These were frequently found in the string synthesizers of the mid-70s, like the Solina, Arp, and PAiA Strings N'Things.  Bear in mind that the objective of these units was to take a single electronic emulation of the timbre/envelope of a violin or viola and make it sound like a string section with multiple musicians trying to play the same notes.  Multi-phase chorusses employing 2 and 3 BBDs do a pretty decent job of this.  Mike Irwin, who posts here intermittently, is fond of clining these and has demonstrated a few of them to me and they are delightfully rich-sounding, without any of the obvious wobble that accompanies the standard CE-2/Zombie kind of unit.  

The Boss Dimension C and D are another way of achieving wobble-free chorus, but use a slightly different approach.  Here, 2 BBDs are synced to the same LFO but sweep in opposite directions.  The result is the appearance of one pitch which is always a wee bit flat, and another which is always a wee bit sharp.  It also produces a rich-sounding chorus, although it does not mimic the multitrack effect as well as nonsynchronized multi-phase units do.

[smoguzbenjamin]

Another Mark Hammer Gem... respect the hammer!

[brian wenz]

I think it's a Leslie unit.  Actually, if I remember the song correctly, it's a Hammond organ played through the Leslie.
I'm amazed that somebody knows about The Small Faces......great band!!
Brian.

[brian wenz]

That particular song is from around 1966-'67, too.  All we had back then was studio flanging and Leslies.
Brian.

[Mark Hammer]

Just in case folks think that pre-BBD flanging could only be achieved by rubbing one's thumb up against the tape reel, by the time we're into the 1960's a number of decks have electronically variable speed/pitch, which allow one to start out two decks synced, and electronically speed up then slow down one of them to produce tape-based time-delay.  One often hears in interviews of producers from the late 60's a reference to "VCO's".  What I believe they are often referring to is a tape transport system where the motors are AC-type but the rate at which the current alternates is determined by an oscillator that is, in turn, voltage-controlled.  

Tape-based chorus and especially flanging can often sound richer than BBD-based versions of the same thin.  I suspect this is partly for the same reasons that Leslie speakers can provide a richer sound; namely it is imposed at the very end of the signal chain, rather than earlier on.  The same way a Leslie maps a doppler effect onto whatever has accumulated along the signal path, (including power tube, output transformer and speaker-based distortion) tape-based time-effects do too.  In the case of tape effects, there is also the compression and distortion inherent in the tape format, as well as the capacity to do through-zero flanging.  For years, the through-zero flanging effect that characterized Jimi Hendrix' earlier studio efforts was tape-based.  Although you CAN do through-zero flanging with BBDs (and the FoxRox Paradox flanger amply demonstrates this), it is very easily done with tape and variable electronic control of tape transport speed.

If you check out any of the 4 and 8-track Fostex and TEAC open-reel decks available second-hand at reasonable prices (now that so many have migrated to hard-disk recording), you will often see a "pitch" control.  This does exactly what I described.  Of course the capacity to do tape-based flanging and double-tracking of any aesthetic value will depend on how much adjustment of pitch is feasible.  Too little and you can't get wide sweeps.  Too much cramped into too little pot rotation and it becomes harder to nail a smooth sweep by hand.

[drew]

Think about this one...

The beatles (reportedly) recorded a 50Hz tone onto one track of a 4-track recorder... then took that signal, sent it through a transformer, and used it to POWER the capstan motor for a second 4-track! Since wall current in England is 50Hz, it drove the second 4-track in sync with the first.

Not chorus, but a great tape story nonetheless... I love rigging things to synchronize with each other


drew
www.toothpastefordinner.com

[primalphunk]

Oddly enough my favorite chorus sound comes from a Peavey amp from the 80s.  The stereo chorus 400.  I'm not sure just what it's doing but it's a really subtle sound with that amp.  I got so used to it that I just left the effect on all the time back when I was still using that amp a lot.  I always set it for a slow and wide chorus.  I've played the JC120 and don't like it's effect nearly as much.  Maybe I'm just an idiot but I've never heard another chorus effect that I liked better.

[V!N]

Back again fellers, I've been down with the flue the past few days and it was horrible ! It's a true epedemic in my regions of the Netherlands.
I'm glad to see you took my question seriously and been so helpfull, thank you for that !


I saw a live performance on VH1 Classic the other day, with a very wobly tremolo/vibrato like kind of chorus. The sound was too good to be actually 'live', since the gents were playing out in the streets, surrounded by traffic.

I assumed it was the usual trick of a nice clip, combined with the sound recorded in the studio. Instead of checking my records, I rushed to the computer and found zip about the Faces' effects-gear. Then I came here and found out there was a chorus-thread going on.

I should have checked my records first, because the only thing wobly on the studio-recording is indeed a Hammond hooked up to a Leslie.


Hi Brian ! It's a bit sad there are so little who remember the Small Faces, while their music matches up with any other rock band from that era.

Would you happen to have a tape or DVD or bootleg or anything where this particular version of All or Nothing is on ? In case you have the clip, it's a black and white recording.


Thank you all and keep eating them oranges,


V!N

[brian wenz]

Hello Vin--
  Yeah, I've got the video of that song [black and white].  Any Small Faces comp.  cd should have "All or Nothing" on it  [it's the same version as in the video.]   Actually, most of the Small Faces songs have huge amounts of that Hammond organ "swirl" going on!
Brian.

[V!N]

Hello Vin--
  Yeah, I've got the video of that song [black and white].  Any Small Faces comp.  cd should have "All or Nothing" on it  [it's the same version as in the video.]   Actually, most of the Small Faces songs have huge amounts of that Hammond organ "swirl" going on!
Brian.

You can't teach me anything about the Faces Brian !

But I swear I heard a realy wobly GUITAR picking on the clip I saw on VH1 Classic. It's the sound you get when you turn up the rate and turn down the depth on your chorus pedal.
Not like the plain clean sound on my single or on the compilation CD's.

[brian wenz]

Hello  Vin--
  Hey, I seem to remember that the sound on that video clip was a little "worbly" .........I  wonder if  a problem with bad audio made the guitar picking seem different???
Brian.