Eh muff fuzz cascading Q?

[nightingale]

i built two EH muff fuzz's (tranny version) in the same enclosure~
i really like the sonic tone of the circuit.. wheen i step on the second 3pdt for the 2nd stage... the circuit slightly "overloads".. the lows get really overloaded sounding, and the vulume drops a bit.. only for the "lows" tho.. the rest is great over the top fuzz.. with both muff fuzz's engaged...

should i try a smaller input cap for the 2nd muff fuzz circuit.. someplace i remember reading that a smaller pot value for the 2nd stage will do the trick.. in cascaded circuits... any advice? normally i would tinker myself but the board is pretty tightly arranged.. swapping too many parts might harm a trace.. :(

[bobbletrox]

Isn't a Big Muff a cascading circuit?  Putting in a footswitch for each stage is a great idea...

[nightingale]

yes~
the BMP has cascading gain stages.., and is similiar to the EH muff fuzz in some ways-->(diode clippers).. but the gain stages of the BMP are all the same as far as caps go.. but it does have the 8k2 resistor "after" the cap.. perhaps this helps the couling of the gain stages.. not + tho!

maybe the two muff fuzz's need some resistance between them.., or the second one might need a lower pot value, as you would if you cascade lpb-1's.. i just thought i would run it by the forum before i start mangling my pretty little board.. a pot swap would be pretty easy i suppose...

another idea might be to use GE diodes for clipping on the 1st muff fuzz... maybe this will help the two circuits combined from overloading..

i'm beginning to wish i built a lpb-1 after the 1st MF, instead of the two muff fuzz's in series.. i guess i just really like the sonic tone of the MF!

guess i should have breadboarded this idea a little better..

[Mark Hammer]

1) I keep saying it, and it never becomes less true: you can always get more fuzz out of your fuzz by feeding it a hotter signal.  That hotter signal *could* come from another distortion unit/stage, but it doesn't *have* to.  It could come from a compressor or an absolutely pristine wins-an-award-from-Absolute-Sound clean booster.  Makes no difference.  Whatever brings the signal consistently closer to being over the clipping threshold all the time will do the trick.

2) Each successive clipping stage will add harmonics to whatever you feed it.  If the first clipping stage is not suitably filtered, what you end up with is harmonics of harmonics at the output of the second stage.  The lack of filtering may not be a problem when you have one distortion device, but when you cascade them it can get ugly, not to mention very hissy.  Figure out how to tame the sizzle of a first distortion stage before feeding it to a second.

3) Nobody seems to have tried it yet, but consider sticking a second pot between stages 2 and 3 of a BMP, so that everything is the same for each clipping stage.  That is, there is a signal attenuator at the input to each clipping stage.  The stock BMP has such an attenuator for the first clipping stage (which we know as the "Sustain" control, but think of as the distortion amount control), but the output of that first clipping stage passes on to the second stage full tilt, for whatever the maximum amount of distortion is with that gain and input signal.  Note that this will allow one to dial in shades of distortion LESS than max, but will not allow one to increase distortion beyond the maximum already built into the design.

[nightingale]

thanks mark~
i switched the SI diodes out the 1st MF for some GE diodes i had laying around.. problem solved! no more driven 3rd harmonic..

actually the Mf with the GE diodes sounds very similiar to a TS-808 clone i have at the dirtiest setting.. you know! that really "tubey" tone around the 12th fret or so...

the MFx2 is really nice little effect duo.. plus i have room for another box on my board.. i appreciate the insight! i know that discussing modulation is more your thing.. hopefully you are around when i go at the rebote 2, ad-3208, and ross phaser  that i just received the parts for via smallbear! i am definatlely doing your cool little vibrato mod to the ross..