Author Topic: Permanant Drilling Templates  (Read 6251 times)

spaceace76

Permanant Drilling Templates
« on: May 22, 2010, 11:33:13 PM »
I've been hoping that there was a way to create permanent (i.e. reusable) drilling templates. I'm not sure what material to make them out of though, since most materials wouldn't stand up to constant use, causing the holes to expand and thus rendering the template useless.

so what should I use? any suggestions?

Ned Flanger

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 11:55:32 PM »
I have created drill fixtures for other applications, but you can use the same principle.  The best would be to  make a fiberglass shell that fits over the enclosure that has your drill pattern.  However, do not use the size of the hole you are drilling.  Use an 1/8" bit to set up pilot holes.  Once all the pilot holes are drilled then you remove the fixture and enlarge the holes with a step drill.  If you really want to get tricky, when you create your fiberglass shell you can insert steel bushing for the pilot holes.  This will reduce wear on the holes in the shell.

Hope this makes sense.

R.G.

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 11:58:20 PM »
Why not get the template right in some drawing program, then print a new one for each box and toss it when you've done the box. Paper is quite cheap, and you don't get wear issues on the templates. You get a fresh one every time. You can recycle the paper to soothe your environmental conscience.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

John Lyons

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 01:11:02 AM »
I made a template of of steel sheeting. Drop it over the box and drill.
If you line up the bit to the holes it won't wear out. Hasn't yet
at least.
Basic Audio Pedals
www.basicaudio.net/

G. Hoffman

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2010, 01:55:24 AM »
I make a bunch of these for building guitars.  What I use is hardened steel drill bushings.  THESE are good, though McMaster-Carr can be a bit on the pricey side.  They do, however, have the best selection of sizes I've seen.  You want the serrated ones.  For the substrate material, I usually use 3/4" MDF, but 1/2" Baltic Birch Plywood is probably even better - that's what I used when I made my headstock template, because it will last for a lot more uses.  When I lay things out, I either use an existing piece that is right, or more often I lay things out with my CAD program, print it up, and glue and transfer the center marks to the substrate.  I drill 1/8" holes with a brad point bit, and then use a forstner drill bit centered on the 1/8" hole to enlarge it.  It works great, the drill bushings will last as long as you would ever need, and if you are ever done with it you can reuse the bushings in a different jig.  

If you look at the top of the back wall, you can see some of our headstock jigs:





Here are some of my other drill jigs. 





If you look at THIS PHOTO SET, you can see some of the other ways I use these locating holes.  The drill bushings will last as long as you could possibly want with standard twist bits.


Gabriel
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 01:58:11 AM by G. Hoffman »

Gus

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2010, 11:36:08 AM »
Hardened steel drill bushings installed in wood or metal work well like G.Hoffman posted.

The other thing would be to use a CNC mill.

spaceace76

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2010, 01:29:31 PM »
i think the steel drill bushings in wood would work perfectly. my idea was to form a template around an enclosure so i can keep dropping enclosures into it without worrying about everything lining up perfectly. this sounds like the solution.

RG, I've used the paper template idea in the past and I usually end up screwing something up, folding incorrectly, taping incorrectly or aiming the bit incorrectly. The method works well if you put the effort into it, and I've gotten it to work for me with some effort, but i seem to screw it up more often than not.

I'm a DIYer of little patience and time, and I'm trying to streamline everything into piss-easy, foolproof methods. it seems like i could spend a few days making a handful of useful templates for various enclosure sizes and never have to worry about screwing up an enclosure again.

thanks for all your suggestions guys!  :D

Kearns892

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2010, 01:36:32 PM »
Check out this thread. I've used it with good results.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=71525.0

R.G.

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2010, 05:38:25 PM »
RG, I've used the paper template idea in the past and I usually end up screwing something up, folding incorrectly, taping incorrectly or aiming the bit incorrectly. The method works well if you put the effort into it, and I've gotten it to work for me with some effort, but i seem to screw it up more often than not.

I'm a DIYer of little patience and time, and I'm trying to streamline everything into piss-easy, foolproof methods. it seems like i could spend a few days making a handful of useful templates for various enclosure sizes and never have to worry about screwing up an enclosure again.
No problem. Do what works for you.

Paper works well for me because I hardly ever do the same enclosure twice, and I'm always putting something different in, even if it's just a different number of controls. I hate to try to do hard tooled stuff because of this. I'd either need a large number of templates or I'd always be messing up by drilling in the wrong hole in the holes-for-everything template. It's quite difficult to make things foolproof because Nature keeps making more ingenious fools.  :icon_biggrin:
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

G. Hoffman

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2010, 12:58:25 AM »
It's quite difficult to make things foolproof because Nature keeps making more ingenious fools.  :icon_biggrin:


Oh, I don't know - it would be pretty hard for me to mess up the holes on my headstock.  Of course, making a really effective jig takes time.  I'd say that my average time spent on a jig probably six hours, so it is definitely time consuming to do it right.  However, if it turns a half-hour job into a 5 minute job, it makes up for itself in just a few guitars.  Now, I wouldn't advise it for one offs, but then that wasn't the question asked.  If I'm doing an unusual headstock, its all by hand - that's the most efficient way for a one off.  But I spend more time doing the same thing repetitively, and for THAT, jigs are the way to go.


Gabriel

Paul Marossy

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2010, 10:53:14 PM »
Oh, I don't know - it would be pretty hard for me to mess up the holes on my headstock.  Of course, making a really effective jig takes time.  I'd say that my average time spent on a jig probably six hours, so it is definitely time consuming to do it right.  However, if it turns a half-hour job into a 5 minute job, it makes up for itself in just a few guitars.  Now, I wouldn't advise it for one offs, but then that wasn't the question asked.  If I'm doing an unusual headstock, its all by hand - that's the most efficient way for a one off.  But I spend more time doing the same thing repetitively, and for THAT, jigs are the way to go.

Yeah, I've built a few jigs of my own. They do take some time to design and make, but they save a lot of time and effort once they are done.  :icon_razz:

Here are some of my other drill jigs.  





If you look at THIS PHOTO SET, you can see some of the other ways I use these locating holes.  The drill bushings will last as long as you could possibly want with standard twist bits.

Yeah, drill bushings are the way to go if you need to do a lot of drilling and want them precisely in the same location every time.  :icon_cool:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 10:56:13 PM by Paul Marossy »

R.G.

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2010, 11:45:11 PM »
Oh, I don't know - it would be pretty hard for me to mess up the holes on my headstock. 
I'm pretty sure, based on my track record, that I could mess it up.  :icon_biggrin:

The case I was referring to was not just six holes in a flat headstock. What I had in mind was that I almost never need the same number of controls or in quite the same places as last time. The sentence in my post just before the one you quoted was:
Quote
Paper works well for me because I hardly ever do the same enclosure twice, and I'm always putting something different in, even if it's just a different number of controls. I hate to try to do hard tooled stuff because of this. I'd either need a large number of templates or I'd always be messing up by drilling in the wrong hole in the holes-for-everything template.
I think that you're right - one jig per job, six holes in a flat surface, pretty hard to foul up.

Gets us down to:
Quote
Of course, making a really effective jig takes time.  I'd say that my average time spent on a jig probably six hours, so it is definitely time consuming to do it right. 

If I have to make a new jig for every combination, I'd only have time to make jigs. Or make one jig with a plethora of holes in every possible location I want, and *then* I could drill the wrong holes.

Quote
However, if it turns a half-hour job into a 5 minute job, it makes up for itself in just a few guitars.  Now, I wouldn't advise it for one offs, but then that wasn't the question asked.  If I'm doing an unusual headstock, its all by hand - that's the most efficient way for a one off.  But I spend more time doing the same thing repetitively, and for THAT, jigs are the way to go.
I agree. Six hours per jig versus 1/2 hour per manual job on a headstock is a payback time of twelve (identical) guitars to come out ahead with a hard jig.

I suggested paper templates even in quantity because the one-time effort is much lower. Give it 20 minutes on a drawing program to be generous to get the first print. Successive printings are free because you can print 25-50 while you're doing the first drililng. Then it takes six minutes per job, because you spend another minute with a prick punch to locate the holes through the paper, and the same five minutes to drill the holes once they're located.

I agree with the idea of jigs and use them extensively. But there are other ways. Just pointing them out.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

G. Hoffman

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 03:10:38 AM »
I suggested paper templates even in quantity because the one-time effort is much lower. Give it 20 minutes on a drawing program to be generous to get the first print. Successive printings are free because you can print 25-50 while you're doing the first drililng. Then it takes six minutes per job, because you spend another minute with a prick punch to locate the holes through the paper, and the same five minutes to drill the holes once they're located.

I agree with the idea of jigs and use them extensively. But there are other ways. Just pointing them out.



No disagreements here.  The question was how to do it, though, not if it was a good idea. 

Due to the nature of what I do, it is fairly common for me to make jigs for most things.  For instance, I will always make a new jig for new control layouts.  Even if it doesn't make sense for the one guitar I'm working on, I usually end up using them again. 


Gabriel

therecordingart

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 05:21:32 PM »
Old thread, but worthy of a bump...

I'm planning on building templates out of plexiglass that I'll line up on the box, but instead of using the template as a drill guide it will guide my spring loaded center punch. No wear 'n' tear to the template, cheap, consistent, and not too difficult to make.

I'll let you all know how it goes.


CodeMonk

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 05:47:55 PM »
Hardened steel drill bushings installed in wood or metal work well like G.Hoffman posted.

The other thing would be to use a CNC mill.

I've thought about this but using T-Nuts instead.
Easily replaceable when they get a little worn.

G. Hoffman

Re: Permanant Drilling Templates
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2012, 01:56:44 PM »
Hardened steel drill bushings installed in wood or metal work well like G.Hoffman posted.

The other thing would be to use a CNC mill.

I've thought about this but using T-Nuts instead.
Easily replaceable when they get a little worn.

Bad idea - they will wear to easily.   The hardened steel bushings are the way to go - they won't wear, or at least not for a very long time.  Tee nuts are a fairly soft steel, and the drill bits will eat right through them ing no time.  The hardened bushings are hardened after machining, because once they are hardened, normal tools won't make a mark.   I've got drill jigs that have been used for hundreds of guitars, with no wear on them. 


Gabriel