Author Topic: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?  (Read 26880 times)

Canucker

Since there are a few different methods for transfering your design to make a PCB I figured I'd start a thread that compared the methods. Some people think the press n' peel blue is the only way to go (because of not having success any other way) and others feel its a waste of money....so whats your fave way and do you have any pointers on your method of choice?

Isak

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 06:31:01 PM »
Well ...I pirnt the designs on clear paper on the laser printer and then expose to the positive board with black light for 10 min and the rest is history I guess :)
I don't press n peel, I never did that.

Cheers.

gritz

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 06:58:05 PM »
While press and peel seems expensive (although I've never used it), the smart folks print their pcb pattern on a plain piece of paper first, then stick a piece of just_big_enough press and peel over the printed pattern and run it through the printer again. The whole messing with different priters / laminators / irons and whatnot does seem like a labour of love though. Pretreated photoresist PCB isn't that much more expensive than plain copperclad (around here anyway) and just feels more oldschool. :)

Canucker

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 08:22:49 PM »
While press and peel seems expensive (although I've never used it), the smart folks print their pcb pattern on a plain piece of paper first, then stick a piece of just_big_enough press and peel over the printed pattern and run it through the printer again. The whole messing with different priters / laminators / irons and whatnot does seem like a labour of love though. Pretreated photoresist PCB isn't that much more expensive than plain copperclad (around here anyway) and just feels more oldschool. :)


Pretreated Photoresist here is about 5 times the cost and the instructions on the packaging is in asian script ONLY...I bought it once and followed instructions I found online and the results were not even close to usable. I can get press n peel here for under $2.50 a sheet and $2.50 shipping for up to ten sheets....I can do designs for around ten pedals on one sheet so thats cheap enough for me. They don't even sell vero around here so thats what got me printing my own boards early on and I much prefer professional look of it anyways. I like to etch designs on to my enclosures too and that is really eating into my supply of the press n peel so I figure I'd start this thread...plus as I said I've read in some threads how some people swear by it and others feel its a waste of money.
 
I'm lucky enough to have my own photocopier so I just use that to reproduce my print outs...cus I always seem to be having trouble with my printer (who doesnt?)...but I obviously have to print them off of the computer....so I do that at the draft setting to save on inke and then its over to the photocopier to darken things up....is a laser printer a lot better then an inkjet for this stuff? Mine is an ink jet

deadastronaut

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2013, 08:27:58 PM »
i use photo  paper for pcbs, and etching boxes..never had a problem. always had great detail, and fine traces..

as long as the image is sharp its fine...ive done really tiny text on pcbs too , to test the resolution and its fine... 8)
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pakrat

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2013, 09:02:48 PM »
I also use photo paper for etching boxes, but I use thick, glossy magazine paper and a laminator for pcbs... 3 passes and it's done. I guess the best method is whatever works for you.

chromesphere

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2013, 09:04:13 PM »
I use magazine transfer because it does 99% of the PCB's i need to etch.  But....the resolution is a bit low and you get a bit of a jaggered edge.  Is that why people use pnp?  Resolution? You might JUST be able to use mag paper for smd, but i've just been ordering those from fabbed from OSH anyway as they are so small they are dirt cheap to get made.
Paul
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pakrat

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2013, 09:46:48 PM »
I tried PNP and got the same results as glossy paper.... slight jaggies. It does come off a lot easier though.....

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2013, 10:00:18 PM »
PnP blue ALL THE WAY for PCB etches. Have had next to 0 problems with it and I have done layouts up to 150mm x 100mm  :icon_eek:

Just did my very first cover plate etch with PnP blue. It actually turned out pretty good. Only advice I would give is to make sure your text is large enough. Mine was fairly small and some of the knob labels ran together and became slightly unreadable  :-\

All-in-all it was a good first go with PnP blue and ferric Chloride to etch a cover plate FOR ME!!  ;D
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Arcane Analog

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2013, 10:09:38 PM »
PNP is good for beginers to ge their bearings but after your first few etches you should be good to move on to dollar store photopaper. I buy whatever the dollar store has and I usually get 10 sheets for under $2 taxes in. A sheet of PNP is $2 and you will probably have to have it shipped.

As far as detail goes, I can get pretty detailed with etched boxes. You just need to practice a few times. Save your cash for mojo! Haha.

Canucker

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 10:14:11 PM »
I also use photo paper for etching boxes, but I use thick, glossy magazine paper and a laminator for pcbs... 3 passes and it's done. I guess the best method is whatever works for you.

Probably a silly question by why the preference for thicker paper?
I just tried using birthday wrapping paper (which was pretty thin)  as opposed to magazine paper....it got all of the details but I was etching a piece of artwork into steel as opposed to copper or aluminum....steel its more difficult because its so hard...so the results weren't all that great but for copper or aluminum I think it would have been ok.


chromesphere

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2013, 10:22:50 PM »
Im not sure why people use photo paper over magazine paper either Canucker, good question!  The magazine paper i use is pretty dam thin!
Paul
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deadastronaut

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2013, 10:26:51 PM »
fibres maybe...thickness?...hmmm..

ive used mag paper with great results, my printer prefers 150gsm thickness though..
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 10:28:55 PM by deadastronaut »
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chromesphere

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2013, 10:29:08 PM »
ime, its to do with fibres...

Ah!  I can vouche for this with magazine paper.  Once i etched 10 boards at once.  Put it this way, by the time i finished, i was considering stealing something from the museum...no fingerprints left...

Paul
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deadastronaut

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2013, 10:30:10 PM »
^ lol..yeah right.. ;D
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Canucker

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2013, 10:33:18 PM »
I'd think the fibers in thin paper would be better. I guess I'll have to give both a shot to see what works best for me. I guess overall with enough practice people can "master" any method.
When people talk about laminators are we talking about what  we used to make our fake ID's back in the day. The is one of those somewhere around here.

chromesphere

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2013, 10:36:31 PM »
I figured the idea was the photopaper came off without leaving any fibers?  Idk, im just speculating now.

Awaiting our photopaper experts to arrive. :D

Paul
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J0K3RX

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2013, 10:42:06 PM »
I use really thin glossy paper... not sure if it's what you would call "photo paper" but it's glossy and it works great. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than the thicker photo paper! I let it sit in warm water for about 5 min after I iron it on the board and it just falls right off. I know I have said it before but make sure you get good toner!! Some toners don't re-transfer well, at all! Stay away from half price generic toner and refills!

Edit: I have used real "photo paper" and it does leave a lot less fibers but you now have the gloss residue getting melted onto the board which contains fibers... sooooo :icon_rolleyes:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 10:44:34 PM by J0K3RX »
Doesn't matter what you did to get it... If it sounds good, then it is good!

deadastronaut

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2013, 10:43:44 PM »
@paul: ^ indeed, if you peel off the photo paper just as its cooling down  you can peel it ALL off nice and cleanly. ;)

no rubbing, water or anything... 8)
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J0K3RX

Re: Transfer Advice...pnp, photo paper, magazine paper..other?
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2013, 10:51:25 PM »
By the way.. there is this stuff, transparent laser jet paper... No fibers in it at all. I think you can iron it but you would probably have to put a piece of regular paper over the iron side so it wouldn't melt onto the iron... It's high temp to withstand the fuser heat but I don't know about prolonged periods under a clothes iron? The toner comes off of it fairly easy so I would imagine it would transfer well onto copper or an enclosure.

I have some, I may mess with it and see if I get time.

Do whatever Rob is doing!!! His stuff looks FANTASTIC!!!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 10:55:42 PM by J0K3RX »
Doesn't matter what you did to get it... If it sounds good, then it is good!