PCB Paper Options

[liquids]

Outside of press n' peel blue (which is certainly very very good), is there a product *designed for PCB transfers,* that is also good?  Or is it not worth the time trying to find a cheaper, high quality alternative to Press n' Peel blue?

Please note that I'm avoiding the magazine paper/photo paper approach....I'd like consisency, and something really designed for the task...
...the extra time involved in trying to keep traces but remove 'pulp' from paper-based transfers isn't worth the money saved vs. the PnP...but if there is another good toner transfer paper as aforementioned that is as quick and also quality, I'd love to know.

I haven't been on the scene that long.  What stuff was produced for the task, and "worked great" for DIY pcbs, before Press n' Peel showed up?

[trixdropd]

Outside of press n' peel blue (which is certainly very very good), is there a product *designed for PCB transfers,* that is also good?  Or is it not worth the time trying to find a cheaper, high quality alternative to Press n' Peel blue?

Please note that I'm avoiding the magazine paper/photo paper approach....I'd like consisency, and something really designed for the task...
...the extra time involved in trying to keep traces but remove 'pulp' from paper-based transfers isn't worth the money saved vs. the PnP...but if there is another good toner transfer paper as aforementioned that is as quick and also quality, I'd love to know.

I haven't been on the scene that long.  What stuff was produced for the task, and "worked great" for DIY pcbs, before Press n' Peel showed up?

works great! http://www.pulsarprofx.com/

[GGBB]

I recently etched my first board and did the toner transfer using vinyl shelf paper that I got at the dollar store (idea from someone else here who got it from the web somewhere).  I made a couple of rookie mistakes at first, but then it worked really well - comes off with ease and completely intact - only the toner is left on the copper so you can etch it right away.  I had to touch up a few spots with a sharpie but that's all.

[liquids]

Vinyl shelf paper from the dollar store..will have to look for that....

Anyone familiar with products like this, likewise?:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermal-Heat-Transfer-Paper-A4-SZ-For-PCB-Circuit-Board-Iron-Prototype-10-Sheets-/151097078721

[Ice-9]

I can't get it why people still try this iron on magazine paper or peel stuff. If you have a printer and a spare £10 top quality PCB's are easily made.

This is what works for me for all my home etched pcb's

1. All you need is some transparent OVP pinting media which you print the pcb artwork on which can be used over and over again.
2. For about £10 youcan buy a 8watt UV bulb which is perfect for stompbox sized PCB's
3. Photoresist PCB material is just a few penny's more than standard board.
4. Some developing fluid which a small jar has lasted me about 5 years.

Espose the pcb with the transparency to the UV light for 2.30sec then put in the developer for a few seconds, then etch as you would for any other type of pcb.

In all honesty it is cheaper and better to set up a simple UV system than anything else.

If anyone would like pictures of this I can post a easy and cheap tutorial.

[GGBB]

I can't get it why people still try this iron on magazine paper or peel stuff. If you have a printer and a spare £10 top quality PCB's are easily made.

This is what works for me for all my home etched pcb's

1. All you need is some transparent OVP pinting media which you print the pcb artwork on which can be used over and over again.
2. For about £10 youcan buy a 8watt UV bulb which is perfect for stompbox sized PCB's
3. Photoresist PCB material is just a few penny's more than standard board.
4. Some developing fluid which a small jar has lasted me about 5 years.

Espose the pcb with the transparency to the UV light for 2.30sec then put in the developer for a few seconds, then etch as you would for any other type of pcb.

In all honesty it is cheaper and better to set up a simple UV system than anything else.

If anyone would like pictures of this I can post a easy and cheap tutorial.

What puts me off the photo resist method is the developer mainly - I'd rather not have to keep and use chemicals if I don't have to, plus there's the setting up/tearing down you have to do.  The boards are more expensive as well.  It couldn't be easier than with the vinyl, unless you don't like ironing, and the result I got was pretty impressive - especially for a first time.

[bluebunny]

If anyone would like pictures of this I can post a easy and cheap tutorial.

Yes please, Mick.

[Ice-9]

I can't get it why people still try this iron on magazine paper or peel stuff. If you have a printer and a spare £10 top quality PCB's are easily made.

This is what works for me for all my home etched pcb's

1. All you need is some transparent OVP pinting media which you print the pcb artwork on which can be used over and over again.
2. For about £10 youcan buy a 8watt UV bulb which is perfect for stompbox sized PCB's
3. Photoresist PCB material is just a few penny's more than standard board.
4. Some developing fluid which a small jar has lasted me about 5 years.

Espose the pcb with the transparency to the UV light for 2.30sec then put in the developer for a few seconds, then etch as you would for any other type of pcb.

In all honesty it is cheaper and better to set up a simple UV system than anything else.

If anyone would like pictures of this I can post a easy and cheap tutorial.

What puts me off the photo resist method is the developer mainly - I'd rather not have to keep and use chemicals if I don't have to, plus there's the setting up/tearing down you have to do.  The boards are more expensive as well.  It couldn't be easier than with the vinyl, unless you don't like ironing, and the result I got was pretty impressive - especially for a first time.

What springs to mind here is that if you etch a copper pcb you must have some etchant chemical so its no different to have some developer. I actually use two little food containers about the same size as a pcb, there just little sandwich boxes with clip on lids from asda for 59p each. They both live in my shed and I would say no different as having paint thinners or other products. The developer is in a jar and is powder so just mixed up with water when needed.

I haven't tried the vinyl before, what is the process with that , would I need a vinyl printer/cutter ? I have heard about inkjet printers that can print directly onto the pcb material and this sounds very good.

[Ice-9]

If anyone would like pictures of this I can post a easy and cheap tutorial.

Yes please, Mick.

I will do a little pcb project tomorrow showing what to use and take pics  along the way. So will post it up tomorrow night.

[armdnrdy]

Good one Mick!
I like choice!

[GGBB]

What springs to mind here is that if you etch a copper pcb you must have some etchant chemical so its no different to have some developer. I actually use two little food containers about the same size as a pcb, there just little sandwich boxes with clip on lids from asda for 59p each. They both live in my shed and I would say no different as having paint thinners or other products. The developer is in a jar and is powder so just mixed up with water when needed.

I haven't tried the vinyl before, what is the process with that , would I need a vinyl printer/cutter ? I have heard about inkjet printers that can print directly onto the pcb material and this sounds very good.

I have etchant - that's one chemical I must use either way.  Developer is a second chemical which is not required.  For etching, I am using the sponge technique, so I used about 1 tablespoon of FC total (I could probably use even less) and threw the sponge away when I was done along with the gloves.  I can't think of a less fussy/messy way.  I am an apartment dweller, so everything must be portable and easily and safely storable, and the less things (especially chemicals) I need to store the better.  If I had a workshop/basement/garage/shed, things might be different, but in all honesty I can't think how this could be any easier.  I was kind of dreading the trial and error learning process for etching - especially toner transfer, and worried about creating messes and ruining PCBs etc, but it turned out that using the vinyl and the sponge was incredibly easy.  I can understand people not wanting to scrub away the photo paper after the transfer - that does sound like a big hassle - which is why I tried the vinyl first.

Here's how I did the transfer using vinyl:

1. I bought a roll of self adhesive vinyl shelf liner from the dollar store - good size roll for yes $1.  Lighter colour/plainer pattern is best.  This stuff is fairly thin.
2. Cut some off and stick it to a piece of plain paper (go slowly to avoid creases/bubbles and don't use heavy card paper - my first rookie mistake - too insulating).  Don't leave any sticky backing exposed.
3. Print trace mask on vinyl using laser printer.  My printer had a vinyl decal paper setting - I used that, and I set the toner darkness to max but I don't think I needed to.  Note that the toner sticks reasonably well to the vinyl but isn't immune from scratching, so be careful with it.
4. Cut out trace mask to a little larger than PCB, place it toner side up, position PCB copper side down in place on vinyl and tape back of PCB to front of vinyl outside of trace mask (I used blue painters' masking tape).  (Put small bits of tape on PCB back first.)
5. Iron without steam on cotton setting (on my iron it is 3 with 4 being max) for 10 minutes.  (I will try only 5 next time.)  I ironed directly onto the back of the paper, with paper towel under the PCB board on top of a flat piece of wood on top of an ironing board.  I used a laser thermometer and checked the temperature of the back of the paper which was at about 190 Celsius.
6. Transfer board and paper together using the paper towel to cold water.  I just ran the bathroom tap over mine.
7. When cold, pull away the vinyl.  It doesn't even stick very much - only the tape holds it down.
8. Dry the board.

You are ready to etch.  For this who don't know the sponge technique - cut a small piece of foam sponge (dollar store) - about 2 inches square - just enough to hold on to and wipe - soak up 1/2 tablespoon or so of Ferric Chloride - less is neater - and gently wipe down the PCB.  Wear gloves (vinyl/latex/rubber/...)!  You will slowly see the copper disappearing.  Took me about 5 minutes for a 1.6x2.4" board.  Rinse board off when done and dispose of sponge and gloves.

I don't need to keep any open pools of chemicals at any time, and I only have to store the original bottle of etchant.

[defaced]

Developer is sodium carbonate - better known as "soap".  It's the primary chemical in the dry dish washing soap I bought to develop boards.  And it's not really developing, it's more washing away the stuff that hasn't hardened by the exposure process (assuming a negative resist film).  

And big +1 for photo method.  Control and consistency are the big factors for me.  Great resolution doesn't hurt either. 

[CodeMonk]

What springs to mind here is that if you etch a copper pcb you must have some etchant chemical so its no different to have some developer. I actually use two little food containers about the same size as a pcb, there just little sandwich boxes with clip on lids from asda for 59p each. They both live in my shed and I would say no different as having paint thinners or other products. The developer is in a jar and is powder so just mixed up with water when needed.

I haven't tried the vinyl before, what is the process with that , would I need a vinyl printer/cutter ? I have heard about inkjet printers that can print directly onto the pcb material and this sounds very good.

I have etchant - that's one chemical I must use either way.  Developer is a second chemical which is not required.  For etching, I am using the sponge technique, so I used about 1 tablespoon of FC total (I could probably use even less) and threw the sponge away when I was done along with the gloves.  I can't think of a less fussy/messy way.  I am an apartment dweller, so everything must be portable and easily and safely storable, and the less things (especially chemicals) I need to store the better.  If I had a workshop/basement/garage/shed, things might be different, but in all honesty I can't think how this could be any easier.  I was kind of dreading the trial and error learning process for etching - especially toner transfer, and worried about creating messes and ruining PCBs etc, but it turned out that using the vinyl and the sponge was incredibly easy.  I can understand people not wanting to scrub away the photo paper after the transfer - that does sound like a big hassle - which is why I tried the vinyl first.

Here's how I did the transfer using vinyl:

1. I bought a roll of self adhesive vinyl shelf liner from the dollar store - good size roll for yes $1.  Lighter colour/plainer pattern is best.  This stuff is fairly thin.
2. Cut some off and stick it to a piece of plain paper (go slowly to avoid creases/bubbles and don't use heavy card paper - my first rookie mistake - too insulating).  Don't leave any sticky backing exposed.
3. Print trace mask on vinyl using laser printer.  My printer had a vinyl decal paper setting - I used that, and I set the toner darkness to max but I don't think I needed to.  Note that the toner sticks reasonably well to the vinyl but isn't immune from scratching, so be careful with it.
4. Cut out trace mask to a little larger than PCB, place it toner side up, position PCB copper side down in place on vinyl and tape back of PCB to front of vinyl outside of trace mask (I used blue painters' masking tape).  (Put small bits of tape on PCB back first.)
5. Iron without steam on cotton setting (on my iron it is 3 with 4 being max) for 10 minutes.  (I will try only 5 next time.)  I ironed directly onto the back of the paper, with paper towel under the PCB board on top of a flat piece of wood on top of an ironing board.  I used a laser thermometer and checked the temperature of the back of the paper which was at about 190 Celsius.
6. Transfer board and paper together using the paper towel to cold water.  I just ran the bathroom tap over mine.
7. When cold, pull away the vinyl.  It doesn't even stick very much - only the tape holds it down.
8. Dry the board.

You are ready to etch.  For this who don't know the sponge technique - cut a small piece of foam sponge (dollar store) - about 2 inches square - just enough to hold on to and wipe - soak up 1/2 tablespoon or so of Ferric Chloride - less is neater - and gently wipe down the PCB.  Wear gloves (vinyl/latex/rubber/...)!  You will slowly see the copper disappearing.  Took me about 5 minutes for a 1.6x2.4" board.  Rinse board off when done and dispose of sponge and gloves.

I don't need to keep any open pools of chemicals at any time, and I only have to store the original bottle of etchant.

I think I was the one that suggested and tried, without success, the shelf liner paper.
Only thing is, I left it on its original backing paper instead of normal paper as you did. It tended to shrivel and such as it heated up that way.
Perhaps that was my mistake.
I still have a bunch left.
But I also have just under 250 sheets of glossy presentation paper I bought for $10 that works just as well as photo paper for 1/2 or 1/3 the price.

OH, and I also recommend Nitrile gloves. They seems to handle Acetone better.

[GGBB]

I think I was the one that suggested and tried, without success, the shelf liner paper.
Only thing is, I left it on its original backing paper instead of normal paper as you did. It tended to shrivel and such as it heated up that way.
Perhaps that was my mistake.
I still have a bunch left.
But I also have just under 250 sheets of glossy presentation paper I bought for $10 that works just as well as photo paper for 1/2 or 1/3 the price.

OH, and I also recommend Nitrile gloves. They seems to handle Acetone better.

Actually it was alparent (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102509.msg909025#msg909025 and a few more posts of discussion about it) - but maybe he got the idea from you.  After rereading that thread, I see he used book cover vinyl and ironed for far less time than I did - I'll have to do some experimenting.

Yes - nitrile is better for acetone - once my vinyl gloves are used up I'll be getting those.

[liquids]

I recently etched my first board and did the toner transfer using vinyl shelf paper that I got at the dollar store (idea from someone else here who got it from the web somewhere).  I made a couple of rookie mistakes at first, but then it worked really well - comes off with ease and completely intact - only the toner is left on the copper so you can etch it right away.  I had to touch up a few spots with a sharpie but that's all.

Not to be a sticker, but a visual would help - can you take a picture, or link to what I should be looking for (And/or not looking for?)
Won't be a huge waste of money if I buy the wrong thing from the dollar store...but would rather not waste the time and trip

[GGBB]

It was this (although I didn't get it at DollarTree): http://www.dollartree.com/household/storage-organization/Con-Tact-Quick-Cover-Clear-Self-Adhesive-Shelf-Liners-18x54-/500c541c541p306003/index.pro

Mine was a light grey marble pattern not the clear which probably would have been better but I didn't see any - they come in all sorts of patterns.

[liquids]

Thanks.

I wonder if some of those can handle the heat of a laser printer and some can't...cheap enough to give it a try, I suppose..

[R.G.]

The best paper I've seen in terms of letting go of the toner when it's fused onto the copper is the backing sheet for adhesive labels. You can print on the shiny/release side of this, then put it on the copper and iron.

Do it quickly, because it releases so well that manipulating the paper much caused mine to flake off.

[liquids]

That should be easy to try and something I have on hand!  Thanks!

[GGBB]

I wonder if some of those can handle the heat of a laser printer and some can't...cheap enough to give it a try, I suppose..

I had no problems in either of my laser printers - a Lexmark colour with the setting for vinyl decals and an old Brother monochrome (I think I used the thick paper setting on this when I tried it).  Vinyl laser decals are a pretty common item, so they must be safe for