PCB Paper Options

[GGBB]

The best paper I've seen in terms of letting go of the toner when it's fused onto the copper is the backing sheet for adhesive labels. You can print on the shiny/release side of this, then put it on the copper and iron.

Do it quickly, because it releases so well that manipulating the paper much caused mine to flake off.

I've been meaning to try that.  I did a test print but never tried to transfer it.  As you say, the toner flakes off very easily - that scared me away from even trying to position the PCB onto it properly.

[R.G.]

It's touchy, I grant you.

But then, for toner transfer all the details matter, no matter what you do.

[Mark Hammer]

I had some laser printer overhead transparencies left over from another century, and tried printing on one the other day.  I figured that, just like PnP, they were simply an acetate sheet with some sort of emulsion to hold onto the toner.  Unfortunately, unlike the blue emulsion on PnP, when I tried to iron it on, the toner stayed put on the transparency and refused to come off.  I guess whatever is used for the emulsion on PnP releases easily from the acetate, while the thin layer applied to transparencies is intended to grip for a long time...so that you can use last year's business figures again and again and again in future meetings and presentations. 

When it comes to photo paper, I find that the shinier the coating, the better the resolution, and the more precise the image.  The absolutely hardest part of using any paper-based handoff of toner to copper surface is knowing when you're done applying heat.  In this respect, the thickness of the paper makes a big difference in how easy it is to tell.  That's one of the virtues of acetate-based PnP; it's very easy to spot when the entire toner pattern is adhered to the board.  Magazine paper CAN provide some of that, since it can be relatively thin, but if one is looking for visual indicators that transfer has taken place, the paper you use really needs to be a solid, or not especially busy or distracting, image so that you can effectively see the pattern on the toner side, or at least see a bit of sag in the paper around the edges of the pattern.

[pappasmurfsharem]

has anyone tried parchment paper?

I'm considering it since I have a large roll from walmart for making Potato chips in the microwave ;-)


EDIT: Yes they have

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=24140.0

[CodeMonk]

I had some laser printer overhead transparencies left over from another century, and tried printing on one the other day.  I figured that, just like PnP, they were simply an acetate sheet with some sort of emulsion to hold onto the toner.  Unfortunately, unlike the blue emulsion on PnP, when I tried to iron it on, the toner stayed put on the transparency and refused to come off.  I guess whatever is used for the emulsion on PnP releases easily from the acetate, while the thin layer applied to transparencies is intended to grip for a long time...so that you can use last year's business figures again and again and again in future meetings and presentations. 

When it comes to photo paper, I find that the shinier the coating, the better the resolution, and the more precise the image.  The absolutely hardest part of using any paper-based handoff of toner to copper surface is knowing when you're done applying heat.  In this respect, the thickness of the paper makes a big difference in how easy it is to tell.  That's one of the virtues of acetate-based PnP; it's very easy to spot when the entire toner pattern is adhered to the board.  Magazine paper CAN provide some of that, since it can be relatively thin, but if one is looking for visual indicators that transfer has taken place, the paper you use really needs to be a solid, or not especially busy or distracting, image so that you can effectively see the pattern on the toner side, or at least see a bit of sag in the paper around the edges of the pattern.

The glossy presentation paper is quite thing 6.5 or 7 mil I think.
Very easy to tell.
But I got a crappy printer that can't handle much over something 9 mil.

[tubegeek]

FYI R.G.'s recommendation of label backing paper didn't work for me, in a Sharp office photocopier (big sucker, not a desktop item.) I couldn't get it to print clearly on the backing paper.

HP glossy photo paper prints perfectly, releases ALMOST perfectly, peels off after running under water fairly well. I'd say it's about 80-90% as good as Press n Peel, in other words, not really quite good enough.

[pappasmurfsharem]

FYI R.G.'s recommendation of label backing paper didn't work for me, in a Sharp office photocopier (big sucker, not a desktop item.) I couldn't get it to print clearly on the backing paper.

HP glossy photo paper prints perfectly, releases ALMOST perfectly, peels off after running under water fairly well. I'd say it's about 80-90% as good as Press n Peel, in other words, not really quite good enough.

What's your technique with the hp paper I find that it bonds to the board?

[SmoothAction]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

[pappasmurfsharem]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

I'm sure you (he) meant parchment paper as wax and heat don't go together

[CodeMonk]

FYI R.G.'s recommendation of label backing paper didn't work for me, in a Sharp office photocopier (big sucker, not a desktop item.) I couldn't get it to print clearly on the backing paper.

HP glossy photo paper prints perfectly, releases ALMOST perfectly, peels off after running under water fairly well. I'd say it's about 80-90% as good as Press n Peel, in other words, not really quite good enough.

Yeah, I tried it with the backing paper for the shelving paper.
Didn't work for me either.
But then again, that roll had seen about 5 years stuffed in a garage before I found it again.

[seedlings]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

I'm sure you (he) meant parchment paper as wax and heat don't go together

Wax paper is fine in the oven up to 200-250F for 20 min or less.

CHAD

[pappasmurfsharem]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

I'm sure you (he) meant parchment paper as wax and heat don't go together

Wax paper is fine in the oven up to 200-250F for 20 min or less.

CHAD

So you have tried this?

Because laser fusers can and do get hotter than this to melt toner.

Also wax paper can work in the oven... as a LINER not a baking sheet

[seedlings]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

I'm sure you (he) meant parchment paper as wax and heat don't go together

Wax paper is fine in the oven up to 200-250F for 20 min or less.

CHAD

So you have tried this?

Because laser fusers can and do get hotter than this to melt toner.

Also wax paper can work in the oven... as a LINER not a baking sheet

I have used it in the oven many times, but never in a printer. I'll take some to the work printer tomorrow.

CHAD

[pappasmurfsharem]

I read an interesting tutorial on some random diy-something electronic forum the other night (reading while tired..useless), I'll try to find it for you. Basically this guy used straight-up grocery store brand wax paper for toner transfers and swore by it. Cut to 8.5"x11". I believe he was printing on the more waxy side, and he made it seem like it was super easy to do. I haven't done it myself though, it could be worth a quick experiment... I just wouldn't try it on my own printer first, maybe take it to kinkos.

I'm sure you (he) meant parchment paper as wax and heat don't go together

Wax paper is fine in the oven up to 200-250F for 20 min or less.

CHAD

So you have tried this?

Because laser fusers can and do get hotter than this to melt toner.

Also wax paper can work in the oven... as a LINER not a baking sheet

I have used it in the oven many times, but never in a printer. I'll take some to the work printer tomorrow.

CHAD

Haha yes! Other people's property!

[CodeMonk]

Probably not a good idea to use wax paper in a printer.

[FiveseveN]

For the record, I've been using transparency exclusively since I first tried and and so far had the best results with it. It is the modern stuff, so it might be different from what Mark tried and would explain the difference in success.
Also I think they set the printers to a lower temperature so as not to melt the sheet, so that could also influence how much the toner sticks to it and how easy it is to transfer.

[R.G.]

Probably not a good idea to use wax paper in a printer.

It's even more interesting what happens when you iron wax paper onto cleaned copper. I'm guessing that it will melt the wax onto the copper everywhere, not just where the toner is.

Common food-grade waxes melt lower than toner.

[seedlings]

Probably not a good idea to use wax paper in a printer.

It's even more interesting what happens when you iron wax paper onto cleaned copper. I'm guessing that it will melt the wax onto the copper everywhere, not just where the toner is.

Common food-grade waxes melt lower than toner.

Well maybe better to hold off.  I thought toner/fuser was in the 180F range.  I do have a barely working 1996 super streaky laser printer at work to use that came from the scrap pile.  So, there wouldn't be any harm done if it breathed it's last.

CHAD

[Hexjibber]

I use this stuff for etching enclosures, not tried PCBs but as the method is identical I can't imagine it would be problem?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0046Z1658

It's super cheap (50 sheets for under $5) and I've always had excellent results for enclosure etching, once you've ironed it on just wait for it to cool down and peels off easily, no messing about with residue scrubbing etc. Once you've done the etch just clean off the mask with acetone. Simple and significantly cheaper than P'n'P!

One of my recent etches to show the detail I've got with this method;

[Mark Hammer]

One of the ironic aspects, of course, is that if photo paper was openly spec'd for thickness in a clear way, the specs which are appealing to US, as PCB etchers, would be entirely unappealing to folks who use photopaper for.....um, photos.  I would imagine for archival and durability purposes, if printing photos, you want nice thick sturdy paper.  If you want to iron black toner transfer, you want thin flimsy stuff....not exactly the sort of trait you want to advertize on the package!

We have a couple professional photo places just up the street from work.  I may stroll over there and ask about my choices in photo paper.