z vex clear coat?

[BlackEdition]

hello all, i'm a new forum member here.  i have been reading many, many past threads on clear coats, but haven't been able to find the information i'm looking for.

i'm looking to hand paint pedals ala z vex.  like the z vex pedal artists, i'd like to use testor's enamel paints for my graphics.  i would then like to clear coat to protect the graphics.  in my exhaustive search of the the clear coat referencing threads, i've seen interview snippets and even posts by z vex himself about using 2 part automotive epoxy clear coats as the current method for clear coating their pedals.  he also mentioned that prior to using the two part epoxy clear that they use now, they used a one part epoxy clear. 

does anybody have a suggestion for a spray can equivalent of these clear coats?  specific brands would be helpful.  (i live in an apartment, so it isn't really possible for me to have a compressor based spraying system.)  i've also read about pourable epoxy finishes...  these seem really difficult and messy to me, but i may be off base.  are there other clear coats that you'd suggest?

here is the only thing that i've been able to find that seems to be along the right lines:  http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-2k-aero-spray-high-gloss-clear.html

thanks!  (i'll try to find links to the posts that corroborate the comments about the past and current z vex practices)

[negativefx]

I use Krylon Clear Acrylic: http://www.krylon.com/products/crystal-clear-acrylic/

I can't say whether or not it's comparable to ZVex's epoxy, but I use ultra fine grit sand paper on the first few coats, and lay down a total of 4-5 coats on the pedal after painting.  It holds up well... I've dropped a few pedals and it hasn't chipped in those cases.

[davent]

Anything you spray from a can is going to pretty noxious not something you don't want to be doing in an apartment or around close-by neighbours. Explore the Envirotex method, going to have a learning curve as does any method but shouldn't get you kicked out of your apartment.

There are these 2-part epoxy products, haven't tried, but they say they can be brushed, rolled or sprayed.

http://www.klasskote.com/product/KKA040

A number of interesting painting/finishing products there.

dave

[BlackEdition]

I use Krylon Clear Acrylic: http://www.krylon.com/products/crystal-clear-acrylic/

I can't say whether or not it's comparable to ZVex's epoxy, but I use ultra fine grit sand paper on the first few coats, and lay down a total of 4-5 coats on the pedal after painting.  It holds up well... I've dropped a few pedals and it hasn't chipped in those cases.

thanks for the response!  do you think sanding between coats of clear would damage the underlying artwork?  i imagine the coats are going to be rather thin, and i would worry about sanding through...  maybe that's not a legitimate worry?

[alphadog808]

I second envirotex...or Park's Super Glaze.  I think it's the same thing and they sell it at Home Depot.  Pretty easy to do, and the fumes aren't bad at all.  I'd still try to do it outside with ventilation tho.  That stuff goes on pretty thick, one pour and you're done.  I believe the box says one pour is equivalent to 60 spray coats!   

[BlackEdition]

Anything you spray from a can is going to pretty noxious not something you don't want to be doing in an apartment or around close-by neighbours. Explore the Envirotex method, going to have a learning curve as does any method but shouldn't get you kicked out of your apartment.

There are these 2-part epoxy products, haven't tried, but they say they can be brushed, rolled or sprayed.

http://www.klasskote.com/product/KKA040

A number of interesting painting/finishing products there.

dave

thanks a lot for the response!  i definitely wouldn't be doing the spraying inside.  i would much prefer something that i could do inside (water-based paints and clears, if i'm not mistaken)...  i was thinking about spraying outside when it got warmer and then bringing it inside to dry in a well ventilated area (maybe in a makeshift fume exhaust hood)...  the envirotex method is definitely something that seemed intriguing, if a bit messy, when i first read through it, so i might have to pursue that further...

i saw the klasskote website and was interested in that as well, but thought that i would see if anyone had used the products for this application first...

[BlackEdition]

I second envirotex...or Park's Super Glaze.  I think it's the same thing and they sell it at Home Depot.  Pretty easy to do, and the fumes aren't bad at all.  I'd still try to do it outside with ventilation tho.  That stuff goes on pretty thick, one pour and you're done.  I believe the box says one pour is equivalent to 60 spray coats!   

yeah i'm going to have to look into this further...  seems a bit messy though...

if it wasn't so messy / require a dedicated work space, i'd really love to try powder coating...  however, as far as i know, you can't powder coat clear over enamel paints though... 

do you have experience with the envirotex or park's super glaze methods? 

[alphadog808]

I've used the park's glaze a number of times, it's not bad at all.  Here's what I do; I'm sure there are better methods..

-get a sheet of cardboard and put long nails through it.  I use it to rest the pedal and cover on those nails(sets of 4).
- tape the inside of the pedal so the tape sticks out the bottom; it helps the glaze flow past the bottom of the pedal rather than bunching up.  Still happens tho.
- Make sure the pedal is level.  As it's self leveling, the more level it is, the better coverage you'll get.
- follow the instructions on box.  Mixing well is very important! 
- Blow over any air bubbles that might appear during pouring.
- Let it dry thoroughly; I let it sit for at least 24 hours to be safe.  I try to put covering(plastic bin with ventilation on the sides) above the pedals to keep dust from getting in.  The only issue I'm working through is sometimes the sides don't cover as well, so it has a less smooth finish.  But the top...it's pretty much flawless.

You don't need much to get great coverage.  Usually the cardboard will catch all the extra glaze.  No muss no fuss!

Hope that helps.

[davent]

Little tutorial here on Envirotex, others around.

http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/finishing.html

[negativefx]

thanks for the response!  do you think sanding between coats of clear would damage the underlying artwork?  i imagine the coats are going to be rather thin, and i would worry about sanding through...  maybe that's not a legitimate worry?

I lay on a fairly thick base coat (3 to 4 passes with the spray can) and only use ultra fine grit to just remove any bumps or inconsistencies.  I haven't personally sanded all the way through to the artwork but I guess it's possible if you're not careful.  Didn't think about the venting of fumes though... I spray in my garage. 

[electrosonic]

Haven't tried it but, there is a mod podge hard coat version. Washes up with soap and water, the down side is that it takes weeks to fully cure.

http://www.michaels.com/Mod-Podge-Hard-Coat-8-oz./cp0374,default,pd.html

Andrew

[BlackEdition]

@alphadog808 and davent:

i had no idea it was that simple...  i guess i thought it would be a lot harder to get it to actually go on smooth without bubbles.  i might have to give the envirotex / park's glaze method a try, even if it isn't what i end up doing consistently...

@negativefx:

i see...  do you have trouble with your base coat drying if you put it on that thick?

[davent]

Another angle to explore is finishes made for wood such as Varathane, Polycrylic... With any the question is always how the paint and clearcoats may interact.

http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/boxinaday.html

[negativefx]

@negativefx: i see...  do you have trouble with your base coat drying if you put it on that thick?

I let it sit at room temp for around 3 hours or overnight if possible before sanding.  Later coats go faster because I lay them on lighter.  I usually paint the box over the course of a morning and afternoon, let it dry all day, then lay the base coat on overnight. 

[cloudscapes]

I also like 2-part epoxy. Not the glue kind, the art supply store kind. I use vitra-laque but there are lots of kinds.

http://www.deserres.ca/en-ca/products/creative-diy/sculpture-and-modeling/deserres-vitra-laque-kit/85/1158/

[alphadog808]

@alphadog808 and davent:

i had no idea it was that simple...  i guess i thought it would be a lot harder to get it to actually go on smooth without bubbles.  i might have to give the envirotex / park's glaze method a try, even if it isn't what i end up doing consistently...

It really is that simple, and since it's self leveling, it is glassy smooth...at least on the top(for me)  I've never had a bubble problem except for this last one I made, I think I didn't measure close enough, I didn't mix long enough, or poured too thick.  There are alot of bubbles when you mix, but once you pour and breathe on it, they just...disappear, very cool.

Only downside is *if* you screw up, I believe you can't easily fix it.  You'd have to sand off the glaze and start over.  I did hear of a few people sanding and using a very fine grit then repouring, but I'm not sure how it came out...

[cloudscapes]

what helps with the epoxy bubbles is to exhale a few times over the surface while it's still liquid. watch them all pop at once!

[electrosonic]

With a two part epoxy, any special techniques to keeping the mixture out of the enclosure holes? ( The fact that it is self-leveling implies it flows before it hardens)

Andrew.

[wavley]

Another angle to explore is finishes made for wood such as Varathane, Polycrylic... With any the question is always how the paint and clearcoats may interact.

http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/boxinaday.html

I did a finished plywood floor in my bedroom, that stuff is pretty runny, I've never tried to paint anything other than a flat surface with it.  It is very tough, if I remember correctly it's got aluminum in it to help with wear.  I think I still have some, maybe I'll give a box a try with it.

[lowbrow]

I don't know what zvex uses specifically, but its probably not two part epoxy clear. Rather its probably two part automotive urethane clear. While it is available in spray cans, for various reasons its not very economical. The stuff is also very dangerous to work with and requires good ventilation as well as proper breathing apparatus to use. Some of the more widely used makers are DuPont and BASF.