Author Topic: Good to know - FCC regulations  (Read 40411 times)

Mark Hammer

Good to know - FCC regulations
« on: May 06, 2014, 02:36:00 PM »
I was unaware that EHX had been fined $450k and settled with the FCC last year:  http://www.fcc.gov/document/new-sensor-pays-450k-settle-equipment-marketing-investigation

Here is a nice coherent writeup of the regs: http://www.effectsbay.com/2014/05/fcc-regulations-for-pedals/

Many thanks to Canadian Guitar Forum member bzrkrage for drawing this to my attention.

italianguy63

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 02:49:47 PM »
This is very bad to the small hobbyist.
I used to really be with it!  That is, until they changed what "it" is.  Now, I can't find it.  And, I'm scared!  --  Homer Simpson's dad

armdnrdy

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 02:54:15 PM »
I breezed through the complaint...and about all I see is that EHX didn't have their compliance paperwork in order.

I would imagine that they didn't even realize that they even fell into that category!

I would like to know when the FCC laws changed to include delay units and amplifiers!!!

I have never heard of such a thing!

Anything for the Government to make take more money
I just designed a new fuzz circuit! It almost sounds a little different than the last fifty fuzz circuits I designed! ;)

midwayfair

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 02:54:52 PM »
WTF.

Technically a guitar pickup does this.
My band, Midway Fair: www.midwayfair.org. Myself's music and things I make: www.jonpattonmusic.com. DIY pedal demos: www.youtube.com/jonspatton. PCBs of my Bearhug Compressor and Cardinal Harmonic Tremolo are available from http://www.1776Effects.com!

Mark Hammer

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 03:00:44 PM »
One wonders if any commercial product with a PT2399 in it, or any of the Molten Voltage Tap-tempo chips, falls under the same guidelines.  If so, that's an awful lot of unwitting offenders out there.  I take it that anything using an FV-1 is an obvious digital device.

davent

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 03:12:21 PM »
The Effects Bay link talks about > 9kHz signals or clocks, internally generated, being the threshold between digital/analogue, eg. given is the clock output in a Small Clone, 20-80kHz.
"If you always do what you always did- you always get what you always got." - Unknown

Mark Hammer

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 03:18:18 PM »
I have no idea what differentiates things like BBDs and their HF clocks, from "digital" devices.

karbomusic

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 03:25:48 PM »
WTF.

Technically a guitar pickup does this.

I didn't see where a pickup fits the following but could be missing something...

Quote
A digital device is defined as “an unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles) per second and uses digital techniques.” A Class B digital device is defined “as a digital device that is marketed for use in a residential environment notwithstanding use in commercial, business and industrial environments.”

IOW the second definition is as subset of the first.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 03:27:34 PM by karbomusic »

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 03:25:52 PM »
Hahahahahahahahaha  ;D  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_lol:  :icon_lol:   :icon_lol:

So, what are all of the booteek builders gonna do when you call out their BBD-based devices as "Digital?"

I suppose you can retort with a link to the FCC regulation  ;)

Bye Bye BBD mojo!! I think I just heard multiple For Sale listings drop!!  :icon_twisted:
A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America
for an amount of ‘up to and including my life.’

GibsonGM

  • more
  • Poster2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5327
  • Total likes: 584
  • Mike Parker (aka. Guitar Mike, Parks, etc)
Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 03:27:33 PM »
The *best* thing about regulations is that it makes offenders out of uncountable numbers of people who have no idea they ARE *offenders*  :o/  

It's that thing about unelected bureaucrats again....they can be used to protect huge corporations, if someone wanted to....and to squash little guys...

*cough* CF Martin *cough*
MXR Dist +, TS9/808, Easyvibe, Big Muff Pi, Blues Breaker, Guv'nor.  MOSFace, MOS Boost,  BJT boosts - LPB-2, buffers, Phuncgnosis, FF, Orange Sunshine & others, Bazz Fuss, Tonemender, Little Gem, Orange Squeezer, Ruby Tuby, filters, octaves, trems...

mth5044

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 03:37:34 PM »
Hahahahahahahahaha  ;D  :icon_mrgreen:  :icon_lol:  :icon_lol:   :icon_lol:

So, what are all of the booteek builders gonna do when you call out their BBD-based devices as "Digital?"

I suppose you can retort with a link to the FCC regulation  ;)

Bye Bye BBD mojo!! I think I just heard multiple For Sale listings drop!!  :icon_twisted:

People were buying boutique 'analog' delays that were made of PT2399's without hesitation, so I can't imagine this is going to change anything.

slacker

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 04:01:46 PM »
One wonders if any commercial product with a PT2399 in it, or any of the Molten Voltage Tap-tempo chips, falls under the same guidelines.  If so, that's an awful lot of unwitting offenders out there.  I take it that anything using an FV-1 is an obvious digital device.

Yep, they'd all fall under the same rules. All your Klon klones as well  ;D

Mark Hammer

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 04:02:56 PM »
So anything with a charge pump would need to get FCC clearance to be a commercial product?

slacker

Re:
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 04:10:42 PM »
That's what the link says, and my Soul Food has an FCC sticker on it.
Might be interesting for us to learn some techniques for making compliant pedals, might help understand and stop hetrodyning problems.

R.G.

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 04:20:56 PM »
One wonders if any commercial product with a PT2399 in it, or any of the Molten Voltage Tap-tempo chips, falls under the same guidelines.  If so, that's an awful lot of unwitting offenders out there.  I take it that anything using an FV-1 is an obvious digital device.
Under the letter of the law as I read these revisions, anything with a PT2399 or any uC with an internal or external clock set to more than 9kHz, or *anything* is under the guidelines. In fact, any simple setup with a CMOS oscillator over 9kHz is over the limit. Or a discrete flipflop oscillator. Every BBD clock ever made is over the edge, so under the strict definition, importing a chorus made in the early 70s into the USA without testing for emissions is a violation, unless there was a grandfather clause I missed.

The limit for digital devices used to be 100kHz, below which  no special testing was needed.

 I was surprised when the FCC retreated from actual enforcement some years ago. They used to be all over single over-transmitting ham radio operators, but that mostly all quit. They seem to have woken up again.  It will be interesting to see if the FCC gets all militarized and starts running armed surprise raids like the EPA and Forest Service have started doing.    :icon_eek:

That's what the link says, and my Soul Food has an FCC sticker on it.
Might be interesting for us to learn some techniques for making compliant pedals, might help understand and stop hetrodyning problems.
Note that the requirement is not that you have used compliant techniques, it is that your pedal has been certified to pass the radiated emissions limits by someone. There is a self certification rule, apparently, but I suspect there are penalties for certifying without really verifying. The average DIYer simply can't make compliant pedals because the instrumentation to verify is so expensive. And a pass through a certification lab is several thousand bucks a pass, whether you pass or not.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

wavley

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 04:32:15 PM »
And yet Fujitsu is allowed to make an air conditioner that radiates RFI so bad that anything in my house with a speaker goes "zing zing zing zing" and I had to go fix it myself.  But hey, we should worry about the charge pump in a die cast box polluting the spectrum.  Good job FCC.

I'm a believer in FCC regulations when they aren't arbitrary and stupidly enforced. 
New and exciting innovations in current technology!

Bone is in the fingers.

EccoHollow Art & Sound

eccohollow.bandcamp.com

slacker

Re:
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 04:38:48 PM »
I didn't actually mean make compliant pedals,  bad choice of words. I just meant that presumably there's techniques and good practices used in commercial products that we can learn from. As hobbyists the actual rules don't apply to us, as I understand it you're allowed to make things for personal use without worrying about the FCC coming after you.
I suspect most small boutiquers flout a whole heap of different legislation so one more ain't worth worrying about.

wavley

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 04:51:35 PM »
A sibilant s can be 8 to 12 kHz and is internally generated, am I now considered digital when I say words like "stupid"?
New and exciting innovations in current technology!

Bone is in the fingers.

EccoHollow Art & Sound

eccohollow.bandcamp.com

armdnrdy

Re: Good to know - FCC regulations
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 04:53:35 PM »
As hobbyists the actual rules don't apply to us, as I understand it you're allowed to make things for personal use without worrying about the FCC coming after you.

I doubt that the rules don't actually apply to hobbyists. The FCC is obviously concerned with interference of some kind.

This would be like a car manufacturer having to put seatbelts in a car. If you were to build a car in your garage do you think that you would be exempt from installing seatbelts?

As far as the FCC coming after the hobbyist for non compliance: They won't if they don't know....unless they start doing house to house searches for non compliant electronic devices!
Then we have to hide them in our basements and attics!  :icon_wink:

Just like anything...there is no money in going after the little guys. So I think we're safe!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 04:56:50 PM by armdnrdy »
I just designed a new fuzz circuit! It almost sounds a little different than the last fifty fuzz circuits I designed! ;)

slacker

Re:
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 05:02:24 PM »
Ha ha I should just shut up or learn to write what I actually mean. As hobbyists you don't have to get stuff you make for personal use tested and certified. If the FCC come and tell you to stop polluting the airwaves you have to stop. That seems to be the size of it.