Author Topic: Animato - A tale of degooping  (Read 27793 times)

Crowella

Animato - A tale of degooping
« on: October 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM »
I'm clearly going to put this at the top because I assume it's the part of most interest.

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Animato Schematic.


Latest:
Last modified 10/10/2014. Not Confirmed
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtEY1A1NG91dWRpbkU/view?usp=sharing
1.06

Previous versions:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtES0pKbDRVWXpYTTQ/view?usp=sharing
http://i.imgur.com/4z0kWc7.png - Changed Q4 to a NTE103 to make a germanium compound pair, after some discussion on here and elsewhere.
http://i.imgur.com/lbVGPUO.png - Changed Q4 to a NTE128 after more careful observation
http://i.imgur.com/iNMxHb0.png - Original, not confirmed, will not work either (see above)

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For the schematic, pictures and details on how I've gone about this, click below
http://imgur.com/a/zLnM9

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Hi guys, been a long, long time since I posted here.

If you are a Muse fan boy, you may either want to pay close attention or look away in pain. :lol:

I managed to secure myself an Animato. Just going on record to say it's horrible with guitar but on bass with an LS-2, I can understand why it is sought after. :cool: Very nice sounding distortion without the need to go crazy with the knobs on it.

So after spending >$520 on it and after successfully trying it out at full volume band practice, what do I do? Start taking it apart to see what makes it tick.

To save the effort of updating this everywhere, I'll link to my imgur album and let you guys know when I update it. Hopefully I can try and explain some of the things along the way.

I'm posting here because I've hit the point where I need everyone's collective experience to help confirm/correct the schematics. I won't be building it for another week or so while I wait for parts to arrive but naturally I'm a bit curious about some things, such as the NTE102's. I also don't have complete knowledge when it comes to whether it's a derivative of some other pedals (Proco Rat?) or what not.

If you have any questions, please ask. I want to learn from this experience too so if you notice I'm goofing up, please let me know. Maybe someone can knock this up quicker than I can but it's going to be difficult to tell if it will sound identical since there aren't many of these kicking around.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:16:40 PM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Greenmachine

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 11:08:46 PM »
I really enjoyed that.  Thanks for posting.  Looking forward to hearing what others think this is.

R.G.

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 11:20:37 PM »
It's a big muff variant after the first two transistors.

I don't recognize the circuit for the first two transistors (Q4 and Q5 in the schemo, I think), but it seems vaguely familiar. I'd have to do some analysis or simulate it to do more than that.

Odd booster in front of a big muff pi clipper/amplifier.
R.G.

In response to the questions in the forum - PCB Layout for Musical Effects is available from The Book Patch. Search "PCB Layout" and it ought to appear.

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 PM »
RG coming to the rescue!  ;D Thanks to both you and Greenmachine so far.  :)

I had a vague feeling that I had seen something similar to a BMP in there. That booster is indeed odd.  ???

Should also explain, I am not sure of the accuracy of Q4. I saw NTE10_, so I assumed but it could even be an NTE103.  :icon_question: I'm not going to risk taking them out to get hFE readings either.  :o

EDIT: NTE128?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 02:20:42 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

N9

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 04:02:13 AM »
Hmm, that input stage looks an awful lot like a strangely biased Compound Pair, but Q4 would need to be NPN for that...

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 04:14:46 AM »
I was discussing with another Animato owner. We've agreed its a NTE102/NTE103 pairing. That would make the PNP/NPN pairing required for it to work.
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Thecomedian

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 04:15:17 AM »
In response to N9, NTE128's are NPN's. The schematic is wrong if its really a NTE128. 102/103 Would also make sense.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:50:20 PM by Thecomedian »
If I can solve the problem for someone else, I've learned valuable skill and information that pays me back for helping someone else.

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 04:30:45 AM »
I'm aware the schematic is wrong. Sadly ran out the door to work and realised I have a bit to edit.  :icon_mad:

My guess for the 128 is based off what I could visually see. The 103 is selected from a recommended complementary pairing.

If I can't figure it out, I can do trial and error.

EDIT: Schematic fixed to be a NTE102/NTE103 pair. I double checked the connections and they are all correct based on the board in front of me. I'll work on duplicating the board PCB's shortly.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:33:51 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

digi2t

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Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 06:32:32 AM »
WOW!! This one has intrigued me in the past. Keep up the good work man!
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SISKO

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 07:46:01 AM »
Great! A Muse fan here!!
Im glad to know its a BMP variant, its been a lot of mistery around this pedal.
One thing i noticed is that the schematic calls for GainA and GainB knobs, but IIRC, the animato only had 3knobs (G,V,T)

Keep it up!

-----------------------------------------------------

Edit: after seeing the photos, its a dual gang pot
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:49:43 AM by SISKO »
--Is there any body out there??--

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 07:47:54 AM »
Thanks guys :) It killed all the speculation about it being a Proco Rat clone. I didn't actually expect BMP either but here we are.  :icon_razz: The board PCB's are taking a while. Going to try and keep it to the original specs as much as possible for clarity sake but I'm hating the layout.  :icon_confused:

@SISKO, it's a dual gang, 100k Audio pot.  ;)
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

SISKO

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 07:51:55 AM »
It killed all the speculation about it being a Proco Rat clone.

Yeahh!!

@SISKO, it's a dual gang, 100k Audio pot.  ;)

Yes, i was so excited replying, that didnt see it  :P
--Is there any body out there??--

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 07:57:36 AM »
A user by the name of Don'tPostThePear at the Muse forum boards did a sim of the bizarre first stage.

http://imgur.com/a/sgWgS

Yeah... I can understand the treble nature of this pedal.  :icon_lol:

EDIT: Uploaded a PDF with info and PCB:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtES0pKbDRVWXpYTTQ/view?usp=sharing - Converted to PDF. Added PCB's based off existing.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:32:52 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 07:26:10 PM »
I noticed an error in the PCB's where I didn't label a resistor next to R25. The unlabelled resistor should be R24.  :)

EDIT: I think when I come to breadboard the schematic, I might drop in a 2N3904/2N3906 pairing to see how it sounds. Otherwise, it's going to take too long to see whether it works and I honestly think the tone difference isn't going to be astronomical when you consider what else it has to be pumped through.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:55:41 PM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

R.G.

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 09:14:02 PM »
Did some sim. The frequency response doesn't tell much. The first three transistors, switches and pots are an idiosyncratic way of introducing a variable amount of octave and (probably) some feedback to make the voicing peaky. Switch flips between different amounts and smoothnesses of octave.
R.G.

In response to the questions in the forum - PCB Layout for Musical Effects is available from The Book Patch. Search "PCB Layout" and it ought to appear.

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2014, 09:18:00 PM »
Ah! After doing a bit of reading on Geofex yesterday, I thought that it was an octave effect being pushed through/affected when the switch is triggered. Thank you very much.
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

aron

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2014, 09:35:08 PM »
Gotta love that Big Muff circuit!

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 10:32:56 PM »
Yep! It's a blessing that circuit. Even to this day, still can rebrand it and sell it on.  ;)

Updated the schematic and PCB PDF file to revision 1.06. Thanks for all the support and help.  ;D
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

digi2t

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Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2014, 12:03:47 AM »
Yep! It's a blessing that circuit. Even to this day, still can rebrand it and sell it on.  ;)

Updated the schematic and PCB PDF file to revision 1.06. Thanks for all the support and help.  ;D

I'm still seeing 1.05.
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Asian Icemen rise again...
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"gigantically smaller."  - pinkjimiphoton

"The more "slam" you can get, the better." - anotherjim

Ibanezsr500

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2014, 02:23:09 AM »
Sub'd

-Jordan.