Author Topic: First vero project: advice?  (Read 2786 times)

cnspedalbuilder

First vero project: advice?
« on: May 09, 2016, 12:38:34 PM »
Hello, I've now got about 6 kit builds under my belt and I'm feeling ready to progress to a veroboard/stripboard build. How hard is it to go from PCBs to Vero?

I know the usual thing is to start w/a fuzz face but I don't really like fuzzfaces and it'd be nice to build something I can put on the board.

I had thought of trying a Tone Bender first, because the layouts looks simple. But I'd really like a trem pedal along the lines of the Vox Repeat Percussion. Do you think it would be too much to build the Earthquaker Hummingbird (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2013/04/earthquaker-devices-hummingbird.html) or the Moosapotamus Skippy (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2014/04/moosapotamus-skippy-tremolo-ring-mod.html)?

Thanks as always for your expert opinions!

Elijah-Baley

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 01:30:08 PM »
I don't know these effects, but I think you can build them.
The difficult could be the number of the components, and so the size of the board. Sometimes the difficult come from some tricky components: noisy PT2399, unstable transistor... But the things you have to do are the same on every board and every project.
Study hard the project, assure yourself you can buy the right components or a good replacement. Look and read some tutorial. Be careful to do not make the board mirrored.
Socket pin for transistor and socket IC for IC. Cut well the trace you have to interrupt and che with multimeter.
Pass a cutter between the trace after all your solder.
Check the continuity of the wires, and test the circuit before to solder the footswitch and put it into the box. When you are sure it works fine you can go ahead to the wiring.
«There is something even higher than the justice which you have been filled with. There is a human impulse known as mercy, a human act known as forgiveness.»
Elijah Baley in Isaac Asimov's The Cave Of Steel

cnspedalbuilder

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 02:33:50 PM »
Thank you EJ this is helpful!
So the Hummingbird looks pretty simple, 3 transistors, 14 resistors, 7 capacitors. One of the trannies is a 2n2646 which I gather is rare, and maybe more prone to failure? But I have a tester, so maybe that's not a problem.

I hate to punish you with lame questions but I haven't found quite these answers in online tutorials. (don't worry answers should be short)
 
1. In terms of the layout, you said not to make board mirrored. I imagined that I would assemble the vero board so that from a top view, it looks just like the layout image. There is also a layout that shows the hole cuts and a black line  http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2013/04/earthquaker-devices-hummingbird.html Is this a view of the copper side from the top or is it like an x-ray view of the top with no components in place?
2. So with the multimeter, I should check for non-continuity between pads in a line that are separated by cuts, right?
3. When there is a black line running across the tracks, is that just an insulated wire to connect the two endpoints?
4. When an electrolytic capacitor is shown (blue circle) should I assume that the light segment of the circle points to the side with the negative lead? 
5. For testing the circuit do you mean to hook up everything on layout except switch wires and run in and out lines direct to jacks?

Thank you for your help.

DrAlx

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 03:01:23 PM »
Both those images are views from the component side of the board, but they are drawn as if the board was see-through. I.e. neither are a view from the strip side. You need to mirror the drawn images to get the view from the strip side.

Cut all your breaks first before soldering anything. Then with multimeter check two things. Firstly that the breaks really do break the strips. Secondly that there are no stray shards of copper joining adjacent strips. Very easy thing to happen if you make lots of breaks.

I generally populate the board with simplest components first and most complex last... I.e. jumper wires, resistors, caps. Transistors, ICs, pot wires last of all.

roseblood11

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 03:32:11 PM »
- I always add a mirrored picture of the solder side, with those additional green lines. Idiot proof...  8)
http://musikding.rocks/wbb/index.php/Attachment/418225-TSD-91-posted-version-gif/

- make the cuts, clean the board with a toothbrush alcohol and test it with a multimeter.

- If all cuts are good and if there's no unwanted connection between traces, add a layer of SK-10 or s.th. similar, to protect the board and to make soldering easier.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BJx7dDxVL._SY355_.jpg

- After soldering (including the wires), repeat the cleaning and add a new layer of SK-10

cnspedalbuilder

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 04:20:29 PM »
Thx roseblood11 and Dr Alx! Based on the responses I'll move forward with this one  :D

In terms of interpreting the layout:
-When there is a black line running across the tracks, that's just a jumper wire to connect the two endpoints, right? (and is it better to use insulated or bare wire?)

-When an electrolytic capacitor is shown (blue circle) should I assume that the light segment of the circle points to the side with the negative lead? 

For testing the circuit, is the best procedure to hook up everything on layout except switch wires and instead in and out lines direct to jacks?

digi2t

  • Awesome!
  • ****
  • Posts: 4592
  • Total likes: 1280
  • "Digital? Any idiot can count to 1!" - Bob Widlar
Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 07:44:29 PM »
Just some tips....

- Veros that you see on the net are shown component side up. That is, copper side down.
- I've learned that for the cuts, I print out a mirror image of the vero (open in Paint, flip image horizontally, print), and then mark my cuts directly on the copper side with a fat Sharpie. Much easier than marking on the component side, and then trying to transfer.
- Download DIY Layout Creator, and experiment with making your own veros. Pretty easy once you get the hang of it, and often times, you can improve/compress/warp existing layouts to suit your needs.

Enjoy! :icon_biggrin:
Dead End FX
http://www.deadendfx.com/

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

"gigantically smaller."  - pinkjimiphoton

DrAlx

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 08:29:23 PM »
Black lines are jumpers. I prefer bare wire.
Electrolytics in those pictures are  light blue side for negative lead.
Always see if you can get a schematic too.  It will be less likely to have errors than a layout and will help debugging if there is a problem.
I don't bother putting in the switch for testing. Just power and jacks.
+1 on printing out a mirror image and marking up everything in sharpie before making cuts.


cnspedalbuilder

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 11:44:04 PM »
Terrific advice. Now it's time to order some stuff!

One last thing: I figured that I'd try a tremolo and a tone bender. In the tone bender layout
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PEQ1cE3wGz8/Ud5lU5TyqkI/AAAAAAAACcE/elonSlvm5u8/s1600/Tonebender-MKII-Si-NPN-Verified.png
...there's jumpers that seem to run under(???) board components. For example, there are black lines running above and below 2.2M. Are those lines just pointing to where the leads from 2.2M must go?

Also, other jumpers extend over holes. Again, should I ignore that and just focus on the endpoints of the jumper line?

Thanks everyone. Hope to post a success story relatively soon! :)

Jdansti

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2016, 12:43:38 AM »
>...there's jumpers that seem to run under(???) board components. For example, there are black lines running above and below 2.2M. Are those lines just pointing to where the leads from 2.2M must go?


Each component will (should) always have the lead shown. If it's very short, it will look like a dot. If it's longer it will look like a jumper, but it's not!  What you see on each end of the 2.2M are the leads. If you move your eyes back and forth between the two drawings, you can easily see where the jumpers are. Sometimes you'll see a jumper running between the two rows of legs on a chip, but rarely will you see one running under other components.

Only solder the jumper ends to a trace. Sometimes you'll see more than two connection points on a jumper. If so, the connections in the middle of the jumper will have a black dot.

There can be trace cuts underneath any component, so watch out for that.

When I cut traces, I sometimes print a mirror image as others have suggested, but I always use a very fine tipped Sharpie and label the top of the columns with numbers and the rows with letters on the copper side of board itself. The numbers will start with #1 on the far RIGHT hole and increase as you go to the left. I number the unmodified drawing from left to right like normal. So when I look at the drawing and see a cut at 3C, I just go to 3C on the board and make my cut.  By the way, I also label the top side of the board where the components go to match the numbers and letters on the drawing. This makes it easier when I populate the board.

Finally, if you build enough Vero style boards, you WILL screw up and cut the wrong trace(s).  Depending on how far along you are when you discover the mistake, you can either repair the cut or start over. 

You will also put a lead or jumper in the wrong hole. When I finish, I verify that each component lead or jumper end is in the right hole by comparing the finished board to the drawing hole by hole and making a red dot on each hole on the drawing.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 12:50:04 AM by Jdansti »
R.G. Keene: EXPECT there to be errors, and defeat them...

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2016, 02:12:49 PM »
clean the copper of oxidation with a cleaning pad and soapy warm water  - not just for vero/strip but also important in etching & perf !

also clean off the component legs with some grit paper or a pencil eraser


bloxstompboxes

Re: First vero project: advice?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2016, 02:44:23 PM »
I say why start with vero at all? Learn how to draw your own PCB layouts and you'll learn just as much about the circuit if not more. Plus you'll have a board that's easier to build get and get more repeatable results. You may have to learn to etch or use something like oshpark but you'll have a very professional looking and satisfying build in your hands.

Nothing against those that use vero, I just don't like it personally for a finished good. Some make it look really nice though.

Floor-mat at the front entrance to my former place of employment. Oh... the irony.