Author Topic: DIY disaster : No sound  (Read 14822 times)

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 04:44:45 PM »
Hmm.  From your continuity diagram:
In one position, the top six lugs are all shorted together, and in the other position, the bottom 6 lugs are shorted together?
The bottom lugs only show continuity between the bottom and middle row whilst the top row shows contuinty with everything in the top and middle row when the footswitch is pressed.

So, if we number the lugs like this:
1  4  7
2  5  8
3  6  9

In one switch position, 1-2-4-5-7-8 are all electrically connected as one, meaning you can pick any two of those lugs at random and have continuity between them?
Exactly.
It's really confusing.
My only instinct if I have time tommorow is to try and desolder and remove the footswitch, check if anything looks afoul (user error) and if nothing looks strange possibly buy a new footswitch to try instead.

EBK

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 04:48:58 PM »
My only instinct if I have time tommorow is to try and desolder and remove the footswitch, check if anything looks afoul (user error)
Sounds like a good next step.  Your switch appears to be behaving as if the middle row is all shorted together.
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"I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I've got. That, and my sweet style." --Maurice Moss

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 02:40:38 AM »
My only instinct if I have time tommorow is to try and desolder and remove the footswitch, check if anything looks afoul (user error)
Sounds like a good next step.  Your switch appears to be behaving as if the middle row is all shorted together.
The only other thing I can think of is if I somehow had solder  flow to the other side of the pcb and short everything,  or if the heat from my iron damaged the switch somehow?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 07:39:04 AM by Yata »

granite

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 07:57:49 AM »

The only other thing I can think of is if I somehow had solder  flow to the other side of the pcb and short everything,  or if the heat from my iron damaged the switch somehow?

I was just going to say that the top of the foot switch board surface looks like that it is mostly ground. So if solder flowed out - that you would not see - it could ground a bunch of things.

I am afraid that your plan to remove the switch is the right one, however painful that is.

The good news is that once it is off, you can check to make sure that the switch itself is good - using the notation from above it should have continuity with 1-2, 4-5 and 7-8 in one position and with 2-3, 5-6 and 8-9 with the other.

EBK

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 08:06:14 AM »
To help get the solder off of that switch, hold the board so you are looking up at the joints and let gravity help pull the solder onto the iron.  It helps (immensely) if you have some flux you can dip the iron into immediately before.

And definitely allow for cool down time between each lug.  That goes for both soldering and desoldering.
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"I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I've got. That, and my sweet style." --Maurice Moss

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2017, 08:38:21 AM »
To help get the solder off of that switch, hold the board so you are looking up at the joints and let gravity help pull the solder onto the iron.  It helps (immensely) if you have some flux you can dip the iron into immediately before.

And definitely allow for cool down time between each lug.  That goes for both soldering and desoldering.
Thanks again, I will try what you suggested to remove the solder from the switch. I just hope I haven't damaged it from heat but to be fair I didn't even know that was possible,  everything is a learning experience when it is a catalogue of errors. Hopefully this means i will be able to experience the sound of this pedal soon and also see if I've @#$%ed up any of the wiring on the main board (please not)
My first pedal (belton brick 3 Reverb) seemed to work first time with no problem

bettsaj

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2017, 09:55:20 AM »
If it was me..... I'd desolder the board from the switch, and just test it with input and output jacks and a battery. take the switch out of the equation all together.

At least then you can interrogate the board properly without having any other possible things that could add to the mix
“My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2017, 11:41:36 AM »
If it was me..... I'd desolder the board from the switch, and just test it with input and output jacks and a battery. take the switch out of the equation all together.

At least then you can interrogate the board properly without having any other possible things that could add to the mix

Yeah once I have them seperated I'll be able to probe both the switch and the board and see what is messing up. Right now it's too confusing trying to figure out what is shorting, better to make things simpler.

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2017, 05:00:11 PM »
Another update. I spent 5 hours with the pedal today trying to undersolder the footswitch and I've gotten nowhere. I managed to get the first layer of solder off with a desolder-pump but I just can't get the small bits that are left on each lug. Some of the solder is almost recessed into the hole and the rest just seems to not want to move. I've tried holding the iron on it for ages to try and liquify all the solder in each joint but even trying to pull the iron away to drag it or using the pump basically seems to do nothing. Holding it upside down basically makes it impossible to see the small bits of solder holding it together to try and use gravity and if I hold it over my head with my hand I can't really manouver anything well. I've also tried using soldering braid but that just doesn't seem to suck up any solder no matter how hot I get it. I have no idea what to do now, at times I just wanted to throw the daughterboard out of the window and just be done with it.

https://imgur.com/gallery/KwgCV/comment/1103802667

EBK

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2017, 05:07:56 PM »
Don't throw it out without testing those continuities again.  There is always a chance that you've accidentally fixed it (let's hope, anyway).
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"I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I've got. That, and my sweet style." --Maurice Moss

bloxstompboxes

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 05:58:44 PM »
If you find the continuity is still bad on the switch and still want to remove it, try a good heat gun for several minutes. Might be ten minutes or more, and then try to work the switch out while keeping the gun on it. You just want to loosen up the solder at this point and not necessarily remove it. The switch might come free of the board leaving the board's remaining solder easier to clean up on its own. This will most likely trash the switch.

Good luck.

Floor-mat at the front entrance to my former place of employment. Oh... the irony.

Kipper4

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 06:07:29 PM »
I dont think your doing to bad there by the looks of the photo.
You seem to have shifted quite a bit of solder from the lugs.
When something like this happens. I mostly ask myself what am i prepared to sacrifice.
the switches, yep more likely than the daughter board.

So before i start can I say the thought of you holding a daughter board with molten solder on it above your head fills me with dread.

You need to bear in mind that removing that much solder in one go, especially with a very fine tip,like I use, is going to take time. Since you spent 5hrs on it today I assume your time rich.

Free off each lug seperatly. melt the solder in the hole and tap the switch lugs on a suitably fire proof surface and bash the solder out of the holes with brute force and gravity as much as is reasonably practical.
Health and safety????????

PPR has a neat trick too involving a needle type of thing that you can use to gauge out the remainder of the solder, the solder doesnt stick to the needle, near huh.
Probably wear some goggles.......

I never did get on well with solder braid.
I bought 10 frigging reels by accident when I was starting out here. Gosh nearly 5yrs has passed.
I've given most of it away to other solder freaks at work.
I should have read the qauntity on the ebay sales listing. It was cheep though. So I wont cry..

Those switches can be pretty hardy sometimes.

You could desolder the ribbon at the daughter board end. Then test to see if the effect works.
with croc clips and a jack, maybe a battery.clip too.

Just go round each lug and try to free them from the edges of the pcb holes.

A bit of banter never hurts.
Smoke me another.



"Duck_Arse
otherwise, you might end-up with SOIC or gullwings, for surface mounts."


Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

Yata

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 06:14:05 PM »
I dont think your doing to bad there by the looks of the photo.
You seem to have shifted quite a bit of solder from the lugs.
When something like this happens. I mostly ask myself what am i prepared to sacrifice.
the switches, yep more likely than the daughter board.

So before i start can I say the thought of you holding a daughter board with molten solder on it above your head fills me with dread.

You need to bear in mind that removing that much solder in one go, especially with a very fine tip,like I use, is going to take time. Since you spent 5hrs on it today I assume your time rich.

Free off each lug seperatly. melt the solder in the hole and tap the switch lugs on a suitably fire proof surface and bash the solder out of the holes with brute force and gravity as much as is reasonably practical.
Health and safety????????

PPR has a neat trick too involving a needle type of thing that you can use to gauge out the remainder of the solder, the solder doesnt stick to the needle, near huh.
Probably wear some goggles.......

I never did get on well with solder braid.
I bought 10 frigging reels by accident when I was starting out here. Gosh nearly 5yrs has passed.
I've given most of it away to other solder freaks at work.
I should have read the qauntity on the ebay sales listing. It was cheep though. So I wont cry..

Those switches can be pretty hardy sometimes.

You could desolder the ribbon at the daughter board end. Then test to see if the effect works.
with croc clips and a jack, maybe a battery.clip too.

Just go round each lug and try to free them from the edges of the pcb holes.

A bit of banter never hurts.
Smoke me another.

I didn't think about using a needle to try and mechnically seperate the solder from the edges, that will need to be my next avenue.
I'm hoping I can spend some more time tommoro on this but probably wont have more than a few hours so I can see this dragging onto the weekend.
Sometimes this feels like pulling teeth.

Kipper4

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 06:32:09 PM »
I'd sooner be desoldering than at the dentists.

Chill out. You will learn some stuff. The guys will all try to get it going for you.

You need to think on how your going to handle that needle. It's easy for me to say I already had several micro screw driver type of similar tooling.
Please dont burn your self holding a hot needle cause Kipper told you too.




It was PPR's idea. and I'm sticking to my story.....

"Duck_Arse
otherwise, you might end-up with SOIC or gullwings, for surface mounts."


Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

Kipper4

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2017, 06:52:20 PM »
It's nothing for me to spend 3 months of, time after work, designing some stuff.
I like to listen to a little music relax and enjoy the process.
I always learn something no matter how small.

It will oneday become a knowledge base, hopefully.

If my memory holds out that long.



"Duck_Arse
otherwise, you might end-up with SOIC or gullwings, for surface mounts."


Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

EBK

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2017, 07:00:27 PM »
So before i start can I say the thought of you holding a daughter board with molten solder on it above your head fills me with dread.
I meant looking up at an angle:icon_lol:
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"I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I've got. That, and my sweet style." --Maurice Moss

GGBB

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 09:25:21 PM »
I've tried holding the iron on it for ages

Most likely this will have damaged this switch making it unusable now anyway, so forget about trying to salvage it. Soldering for too long may very well be the cause of the original problem.

You might be able to salvage the PCB, though, if you can pry away the switch enough to cut the lugs off and then desolder. You might actually be able to pull the lug out of the switch and away from the PCB if the swicth is hot enough. Or of you are really good with a drill press you could drill them out (be careful not to drill the PCB hole edges).

Don't think this has all been an effort in futility - you are learning valuable lessons about soldering, desoldering, switches and PCBs. I can almost guarantee that all of us have been down the same road when we were starting out. It underlines the importance of step-by-step building and testing: don't connect/solder things together until you know that each of the things you are connecting/soldering together works on its own, and test after completing each section. So build the board and test, connect switches, jacks and wires and test that, then connect the board and test, and of course test your switches and jacks before you connect them.
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granite

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2017, 06:49:55 AM »
Mechanical separation with a needle or small screwdriver once most of the solder is off should help.

Could also try some solder wick - although your picture shows that most of the solder is already off.

The heat gun idea is a very good one, you may be able to pry the switch off with it.

Also, don't get discouraged, we have all been there, whether with a foot switch or some non-socketed 16+ pin IC that needs to come off a pcb. It surely is a massive pain but builds character  :icon_biggrin:

Kipper4

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2017, 08:57:05 AM »
Heat gun may warp or bubble the pcb and detach the copper beware

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

"Duck_Arse
otherwise, you might end-up with SOIC or gullwings, for surface mounts."


Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

duck_arse

Re: DIY disaster : No sound
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 11:44:50 AM »

Please dont burn your self holding a hot needle cause Kipper told you too.


It was PPR's idea. and I'm sticking to my story.....


get yourself a darning needle, a toothpick, and a clutch pencil (Staedtler Mars 48000, will last you a lifetime). good for painting and poking.


it was kipper's idea.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 11:53:29 AM by duck_arse »
Now battery powered. Remove plug when not in use, please.