Author Topic: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch  (Read 2061 times)

Mark Hammer

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2017, 06:05:50 PM »
The switch has two poles that can be directed to each of 6 sets of contacts.  One pole is for in and the other is for out.  The "out" of the preceding rotary switch goes to the "in" of the next switch.  Each position of the rotary switch dictates what each in and out of that switch goes to /comes from.  That could be an effect or a loop.  You want to avoid having more than one switch set to the same position.

EBK

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2017, 07:08:28 PM »
The switch has two poles that can be directed to each of 6 sets of contacts.  One pole is for in and the other is for out.  The "out" of the preceding rotary switch goes to the "in" of the next switch.  Each position of the rotary switch dictates what each in and out of that switch goes to /comes from.  That could be an effect or a loop.  You want to avoid having more than one switch set to the same position.
Yes, but our friend wants to break the signal chain at one of several points and connect the send and return to either side of the chosen break point. 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:11:15 PM by EBK »
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Mark Hammer

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2017, 07:21:06 PM »
There's a nuance there that I'm not following.

EBK

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2017, 07:49:31 PM »
There's a nuance there that I'm not following.
Perhaps me too.  I'll reread and double check my thinking, just in case.
No affiliations. If I glowingly mention specific merchants or products, it is because I like them without having to be paid to like them.

PRR

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2017, 09:09:05 PM »
> understanding the switch functionality

Took me 9 hours to work this out. (OK, I was rehabbing a kitchen for 8 of those hours.)

The full schematic is very complicated. I cut-down to the in/out, buses, switching, and basic blocks.


You must go through ALL five stages. The Mis-Set light tells you when you have (not) done that right. If you don't actually want a stage, you hit the Bypass on that stage.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 09:11:23 PM by PRR »

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2017, 10:17:49 PM »
Yes, but our friend wants to break the signal chain at one of several points and connect the send and return to either side of the chosen break point.

Correct, but it's more than that.  It's not enough to rotate the send and return to either side of the CHOSEN break point.  In addition, for each of the NON-CHOSEN break points, you have to leave the signal chain INTACT by rotating a jumper to those spots.  (If you don't rotate a jumper to each of those spots, then there is nothing at each of those spots, which means the signal dies at each of those spots.)

Mark Hammer

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2017, 11:18:08 PM »
The solution there is to simply make one of the positions out of the 6 a direct connection from in to out.  That means/implies that each 6-position switch is capable of selecting between 5 alternatives and a simple feedthrough.

Rotary switches tend to come in variations that revolve around 12 contacts.  So, 2-pole w/6 positions, 3-pole with 4 positions, 4-pole with 3 positions, and 1 pole with 11 (and sometimes 12) positions.  The single-pole switches offer more positions, but would require more complex electronic switching, with each position selecting/actuating FETs or CMOS switches, instead of a simple mechanical connection.

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2017, 11:59:50 PM »
The solution there is to simply make one of the positions out of the 6 a direct connection from in to out.  That means/implies that each 6-position switch is capable of selecting between 5 alternatives and a simple feedthrough.

Rotary switches tend to come in variations that revolve around 12 contacts.  So, 2-pole w/6 positions, 3-pole with 4 positions, 4-pole with 3 positions, and 1 pole with 11 (and sometimes 12) positions.  The single-pole switches offer more positions, but would require more complex electronic switching, with each position selecting/actuating FETs or CMOS switches, instead of a simple mechanical connection.

I understand what you're saying there.

But here is the problem at hand:  I have 3 spots in my signal chain... spot A, spot B, and spot C.  I will have a 3-position switch labeled "A", "B", and "C".  If I set the switch to "A", I want to insert a send/return loop at spot A, and I want to leave the signal uninterrupted at spots B and C.  If I set the switch to "B", I want to insert the send/return loop at spot B, and I want to leave the signal uninterrupted at spots A and C.  If I set the switch to "C", I want to insert the send/return loop at spot C, and I want to leave the signal uninterrupted at spots A and B. 

To accomplish that, I would need a 6P3T rotary switch.  I don't see how that functionality could be accomplished with a rotary switch having anything less than 6 poles and anything less than 3 positions.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 12:02:13 AM by dave999z »

Mark Hammer

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2017, 02:05:20 PM »
Are A and C supposed to be in use when B is being used, or is the assumption that only one of the 3 are to be used at any given time?

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2017, 02:14:08 PM »
Are A and C supposed to be in use when B is being used, or is the assumption that only one of the 3 are to be used at any given time?

A and C are in use in the sense that signal is flowing through them uninterrupted.

I may be bad at explaining this, because I'm not sure how else to do it.

It looks like this...

signal flow:   beginning---------->A-------------->B--------------->C-------------->end

Signal needs to flow from beginning to end.  All I want to do is have a 3-position rotary switch to select where to insert a send/return loop (i.e., at point A, point B, or point C).  Whichever point I select to insert the loop, signal still needs to flow through the other two points undisturbed.

At any rate, I decided not to use a rotary switch anyway.  I'm going to use a Switchcraft multistation pushbutton switch.



Mark Hammer

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2017, 09:13:30 AM »
Fair enough.  The length of time it took to get to this point in the thread is why I often respond to OPs with the question: Well, what do you want it to do for you?  The query in the OP may be about some particular component/element, but the intended goal/s are what really direct the optimal solution.  Always good to articulate what the final/ultimate capability needs to be.  Sometimes - and this is not at all meant as any criticism of yourself - the solution makes itself clear when the end-state is identified.

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 12:45:08 PM »
So I received that Switchcraft 4-button switch, and it's really high quality and will do what I want, but I think it's going to be too big for my clearances.   >:(

So kind of back to the drawing board.

I'm not against doing it via an internal dip switch.  Is anyone aware of DPDT (or even SPDT) dip switches that use solder lugs instead of PC terminals?  I can't seem to find any.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind mounting a bank of mini slide switches on the exterior (on the side of the enclosure) if I could get slide switches that have recessed buttons.  Pretty much like these voltage selector switches, but without the labels.  https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/switchcraft-inc/46206LFRX/SC1817-ND/1288783

reddesert

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2018, 03:34:11 PM »

I'm not against doing it via an internal dip switch.  Is anyone aware of DPDT (or even SPDT) dip switches that use solder lugs instead of PC terminals?  I can't seem to find any.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind mounting a bank of mini slide switches on the exterior (on the side of the enclosure) if I could get slide switches that have recessed buttons.  Pretty much like these voltage selector switches, but without the labels.  https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/switchcraft-inc/46206LFRX/SC1817-ND/1288783

No on DIP with solder lugs, but you can mount a DIP on a small piece of perf or vero board.

If you mount mini slide switches with the screw holes on the interior of the enclosure, the button won't stick out much. You could also take a group of mini slide switches with PCB pins, solder them to perfboard, and then mount the perfboard to the enclosure using spacers to get the required depth.

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2018, 03:41:35 PM »
Thanks for your ideas.  I've been thinking along those same lines.

Are there DIPs that have 3 pins (rather than 2, which I know is actually the definition of DIP, making this probably a dumb question) per lever instead of 2?  In other words, where each lever is a SPDT switch.  If so, are there any where each lever functions as a DPDT switch?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 03:44:06 PM by dave999z »

EBK

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2018, 06:03:39 PM »
You're almost entering this territory:


Or, perhaps on a different scale, and in a different era...

No affiliations. If I glowingly mention specific merchants or products, it is because I like them without having to be paid to like them.

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2018, 08:17:43 PM »
Hmm, looks like they do have these unlabeled.  Will probably either do this, or just mini slide switches on a perfboard inside the enclosure.  Now Im kind of leaning that way so I dont have to measure for a cutout on the side of the enclosure.

https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/switchcraft/11a1432x?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtHXLepoqNyVX8OyRcMpuKiNiKfFC%2F7onQ%3D

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2018, 09:51:38 PM »
This is a really basic question.

This switch...

https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/switchcraft/c56206l2x?qs=iwvYsH9bSFY%252bHfmJnofQCw%3D%3D

...has pins that are spaced at 0.181.

But it seems most perfboards are spaced at 0.1.  So this switch would not work with a standard perfboard?

reddesert

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 01:22:23 AM »
Correct. You want something like this:
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/slide-switch/slide-switch-2p3t-through-hole-0-3a-50vdc-3507.html
That's a 2P3T - I couldn't find a PCB mount 2P2T on Tayda's site. I'm sure Mouser has one somewhere but searching through all the parts on Mouser is tedious. This switch has 2.5mm spacing between the pins, which is what you need (and it's a lot cheaper).

dave999z

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 10:29:54 AM »
Correct. You want something like this:
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/slide-switch/slide-switch-2p3t-through-hole-0-3a-50vdc-3507.html
That's a 2P3T - I couldn't find a PCB mount 2P2T on Tayda's site. I'm sure Mouser has one somewhere but searching through all the parts on Mouser is tedious. This switch has 2.5mm spacing between the pins, which is what you need (and it's a lot cheaper).

Thanks again for your help.  Since my guitar signal will be going through this, I'd like to find a Switchcraft or other quality slide switch with 0.1" spacing.  If anyone has any recommendations, please let me know.

PRR

Re: Need help finding a 6P3T rotary or toggle switch
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2018, 01:17:42 AM »
> spaced at 0.181. But it seems most perfboards are spaced at 0.1.

That switch is a LOT older than the 0.1" perf standard.

(Perfboard used to be made with holes farther apart, but 0.181" does not sound familiar.)

I think the 0.181" comes from what some designer thought was good to the finger. The slide and contacts mean the pin spacing equals the distance the grip moves from position to position. Maybe 0.181 "felt right". Maybe the shoe machinery (a LOT of older switchery was stamped and assembled on machines made for shoe eyelets) had a 0.181" setting.

I've never liked those switches. I'm glad they went out of common use. (However those few PC power supplies that still have a 120V/240V switch may be the same thing with recessed knob?)