hexadecimal switch pinout confusion... need help please

[pinkjimiphoton]

i'm working on grant's simplifed ibanez em5 delay, but i don't understand how to wire the switch. in the project, it calls for 1 2 3 4 on the switch to be hooked up, and "common"... but i have 6 pins on here and not sure which are which.... please see here:

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=118923.msg1127000#msg1127000

basically, i need to know if i would number the switch as 1 2 3 4  and 5 being common going counterclockwise, or if i should treat the 4 outer poles as 1 2 3 4 and use pins 2 and 5 as common?

sorry for the questions, i've never yet encountered one of these switches, and the pinout in the datasheet doesn't really help. there's graphics in the em5 thread.

thanks!!!

i really wanna get this thing going..the switch is the only thing holding me up.. well, that and mounting it thru the box somehow

[Rob Strand]

My understanding is the C's (2 & 5) are internally connected and the others form the digits.  I'm pretty sure 0 means all connected.

In the link you posted there is a datasheet pdf.   In the pdf you can see tables with dots showing what connects and when.

I hate datasheets for connectors and switches they always have unclear stuff in them.  You basically need a sample to buzz it out or to measure dimensions.

If you have sample check it matches with what i have said.
-------------------------
Well I've found one example where 0 is where they are all unconnected.
So check with your meter.

[pinkjimiphoton]

tomorrow i will mess with it and re-wire the switch. i suspect it just goes around like a normal switch, going counterclockwise from pin 1

pin 1, 1
     2   common
     3, 2
     4, 3
     5, common
     6, 4

thanks rob... hopefully, this will do the trick. i updated the other thread with where i'm at so far... the way we thought to wire it may not have worked... long story, i broke the rule and disassembled some shit before i looked close at it. oooops.

thanks for the support bro... i think i'm gleaning some understanding. i understand most of whats in the data sheet, the problem is i don't know how grant hooked it up originally.

[anotherjim]

It's a combinational switch and nothing like a normal rotary.

You need to see page 4 of the switchdata sheet.
They have 2 different hex switches. The 2 differ in suiting opposite polarity depending on the circuit needs.

In the hex switch, the common connects to a different binary combination of the other 4 pins everytime you turn it.
Usually, the 4 switched pins feed a logic device with 4 inputs each with resistors that pull the voltage into the device up to a high logic level (1). The common is 0v and any combination of the switch that connects a pin to common therefore pulls the logic level down to low (0). This way of wiring it needs the switch type 06 so the position "0" will have all 4 pins connected to the common and highest position "F" will have none of the pins connected.
Hexadecimal is a numbering system that goes over 10, in fact it goes way up past 11 to 15. there are no single numbers higher than 9, so the count from there to 15 uses letters of the alphabet. So... 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F... "Hey Nigel, my amp goes up to C!"
We use hexadecimal as a handy way of writing binary numbers -  a shorthand way of doing it 4 digits at a time. "C" happens to be binary 1100.
That's 16 unique ways to connect the 4 pins to the common from none connected to all of them connected.
On the data sheet, find the right chart and look down the rows and see dots on each pin column that will be connected to the common or not.

BCD switches are the same deal but only go 0-9, but still need the same number of pins 'cause 9=1001.
Octal switches go 0-7 and only have 3 pins plus the common.

Now, what are you trying to do with it again?

[pinkjimiphoton]

its to change delay time without using a clock on a simplified version of the ibanez em5 delay.

here's the schematic. it shows the switch being hooked up to common, and pins 1-4 but no key as to which pins are considered which.

i know pin 1 is one,  and pin 6 is 8,  and pins 2 and 5 are common, but there's simply not enough information in the schematic as shown for me <at least> to figure out which of the 4 pins are which as shown in the schematic. the more i try and read, the less understanding i get. i understand the matrix of the switch, but unfortunately, the project doesn't spec anything but pins 1-4.




the vero here seems to work, but no way to try and hook the switch up specc'd here, either





if its any help, the original, entire circuit




i am completely lost jimmy. i get which pins are common (2 and 5) but after that, forget it. the schem specc's pins 1,2, 3, 4 and common... well, 2 is common as is 5. makes me widdle head hurt.

i need to figure out which of the remaining 3 pins is which. i assume it isn't rocket science stuff, but i am still but an egg

[anotherjim]

The switch pin numbers are the binary bit values.
1 (is 1 in diag)
2 (is 2 in diag)
4 (is 3 in diag)
8 (is 4 in diag)
To correspond to a data input, the connections are made in order of significance.
Usually, that would be...
1 to D0
2 to D1
4 to D3
8 to D4
BUT, your delay chip is naughty and has started the data pin numbers from D1 instead of D0.

So...
1 to D1 (pin4)
2 to D2 (pin5)
4 to D3 (pin6)
8 to D4 (pin7)
Your switch has two "C" common pins - they will be the same connection & you only need to connect one of 'em as shown for "COM".

That ought to be it, although it could work backwards depending on which version switch you have and how the chip works the data.

[pinkjimiphoton]

but.... there's only 6 connections bro
i will give it a try tho, and see what happens.
heading for the utility fuzzbox research kitchen shortly, will report back.

am assuming now i must have gotten the wrong switch?

[anotherjim]

Pin8 isn't the eighth pin. It's the pin with binary value equal to decimal 8 and is the fourth bit in a 4 bit binary number.
There are 6 pins total. 4 binary output pins and 2 commons which are identical. So there are actually only 5 connections to make, just like you want.
Look at the chart again in the switch data. Top row is C,1,2,4,8. Read that as COM, 1,2,3,4.

[reddesert]

Pin8 isn't the eighth pin. It's the pin with binary value equal to decimal 8 and is the fourth bit in a 4 bit binary number.
There are 6 pins total. 4 binary output pins and 2 commons which are identical. So there are actually only 5 connections to make, just like you want.
Look at the chart again in the switch data. Top row is C,1,2,4,8. Read that as COM, 1,2,3,4.

Thanks - yes, this is the way I intended the switch connection numbering in the vero to be read.  The vero doesn't use pin numbers in the usual sense because the physical pin locations of different types of coded binary switches could be different. The key is that the Sw1,2,3,4 refer to the bit place (like ones, tens, hundreds) for binary, thus ones, twos, fours, eights.

[ElectricDruid]

 I've used these things a ton of times for selecting MIDI channels and such like. They're great if you're dealing with a uP and probably not so great if you're not. What you need to understand is binary or hex coding. If you get that, you'll be fine! Actually, that's a general rule for life...lol! Thinking in one base system is *so* limiting! Always remember to consider "what would this problem look like in Base N?". Sometimes it helps.

No, honestly, it does.

T.

[PRR]

Pink-- have you shown us (link) the Actual Switch in your hand? Or is it your secret?

There's several ways the pins can be pinned-out.

I think with a Product Sheet, maybe just a Good Picture, one of these smart boys could tell you what's-what.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Pink-- have you shown us (link) the Actual Switch in your hand? Or is it your secret?

There's several ways the pins can be pinned-out.

I think with a Product Sheet, maybe just a Good Picture, one of these smart boys could tell you what's-what.

hahaha, thanks paul!
the info is all in the first post of this thread, in the em5 thread.
here's the data sheet.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/26/PT65%20Series%20Rotary%20code%202018-1314458.pdf

the prob i was having was trying to determine which pin was which, as the unit grant willis built used a similar but different switch. in his case, you had 4 pins with 5 being common, but in this case it was 6 pins with two commons. shouldn't be that big a deal, but...

i couldn't understand for the life of me if i was supposed to count the pins like we would on a dip opamp, or if i had to just count the corner pins cuz the center ones were common or... it's still confusing me.

right now due to gigs and stuff i have shelved this temporarily <hell, i built a digital o-scope last nite and it fired up on first try> along with my flanger project.

i messed something up on the board i built from red's vero layout in the other thread, and assume either i screwed up, or the vero has a mistake. to be honest, i've been completely lazy the last year or two and have kinda lost my "vero chops" in favor of getting pcbs.

i THINK at the end of the day, the connections would be

pin 1 - "1"          pin 6 "4"
pin 2 common    pin 5 common
pin 3  - "3"        pin 4 "2"


i probably screwed that up too cuz its not in front of me.

i tried the chips in other builds, and they work. the actual circuit works as a buffer, but no delay at all.
i suspect its something with the wiring to the delay mix pot.. as i had similar symptoms on the first build <now working>

[anotherjim]

THINK at the end of the day, the connections would be

pin 1 - "1"          pin 6 "4"
pin 2 common    pin 5 common
pin 3  - "3"        pin 4 "2"

That is correct as I read the data sheet ( the package diagram within does not stand out being a little footnote on P3).

[pinkjimiphoton]

THINK at the end of the day, the connections would be

pin 1 - "1"          pin 6 "4"
pin 2 common    pin 5 common
pin 3  - "3"        pin 4 "2"

That is correct as I read the data sheet ( the package diagram within does not stand out being a little footnote on P3).

thanks jim, well, glad that's settled. too bad it don't work lol

i gotta get some jobs done before i can get back to it.

it will happen or it won't. i just found a whole box full of poor little babies that never had a chance last nite, thinking to my self, oh, self, why? the humanity......

[PRR]

[pinkjimiphoton]

i got that bro, but on the project its shown as 1,2,3,4 and common, and the schematic didn't spec what was what beyond the pin numbers.

i don't speak well in binary i guess

[bamslam69]

Hey Jimi,
Just looking at the schematic, switch datasheet, and the perfboard layout.
Now this is just a guess, but it's what makes sense in my mind.

Hex Key - Perfboard layout
C - Sw 1 Common (the two common pins on your hex key switch)
1 - Sw1 1
2 - Sw1 2
4 - Sw1 3
8 - Sw1 4

I hope this helps.

[bamslam69]

So going anticlockwise from that little diagonal cutout the pinout will be
key = wire to stripboard
1= Sw1
C = SwC
4 = Sw3
2 = Sw2
C = spare - c
8 = Sw4

edit: I'm pretty sure this is right, but happy to stand corrected. Try connecting it up to some LEDs and see if you get the same pattern as in the datasheet.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i already forgot which way is right, but its  <going counter clockwise> pin 1,(switch 1) pink 2, common, pin 3 (switch 4) pin  4 (switch 2) pin 5 common, pin 6 (switch 4) i believe.

now, if i can get the rest of the circuit to work, lol, i can verify if'n its right

[ElectricDruid]

i don't speak well in binary i guess

There are 10 types of people in the world, Jimi. Those that speak binary, and those that don't.

T.