Power supply question for massive daisy chain

[Esppse]

Alright I know how ridiculous this will sound but here goes...

I embarked on a build that put 100 circuits in the same enclosure. There are 2 halves.

I powered each separately and both worked.

The first half current draw is somewhere below 9V 800ma.
The second half current draw is somewhere below 9V 500ma.

I used 2 unregulated wall warts. A radioshack adapter and a Boss adapter.

That means the total current draw is somewhere below 1300ma. So now I want to combine them so I can use only 1 adapter.

The only 9V adapter I had above 1300ma is the Line 6 adapter for the Helix Stomp. It is a regulated switching 9V 3000ma normal center negative adapter. But for some reason, this did not power either side. Or what I heard was the effect not starting. I don't know what this means. This completely boggles me. Does it have something to do with the regulated vs unregulated?

Thanks

[EBK]

Alright I know how ridiculous this will sound but here goes...

You have my attention.   

I embarked on a build that put 100 circuits in the same enclosure.

Please please please tell me that you literally mean 100.  I really would like to see that!

There are 2 halves.

I powered each separately and both worked.

The first half current draw is somewhere below 9V 800ma.
The second half current draw is somewhere below 9V 500ma.

I used 2 unregulated wall warts. A radioshack adapter and a Boss adapter.

That means the total current draw is somewhere below 1300ma. So now I want to combine them so I can use only 1 adapter.

The only 9V adapter I had above 1300ma is the Line 6 adapter for the Helix Stomp. It is a regulated switching 9V 3000ma normal center negative adapter. But for some reason, this did not power either side. Or what I heard was the effect not starting. I don't know what this means. This completely boggles me. Does it have something to do with the regulated vs unregulated?

Thanks

Have you tried your regulated supply with each half separately?

Oh, and, do you have any pics of this project? 

[Phoenix]

Please tell me that it's literally just 100 Boss Metal Zone clones back-to-back? 

[Esppse]

I tried the regulated supply with the half that takes 800ma, it didn't work but the radioshack one worked oddly. The regulated supply powers a HX Stomp, so it is in working order.

This project has taken 2 years, there are 86 active effects, and I lost count of the passive effects. I promise to share it with the world after it is complete!

[R.G.]

Alright I know how ridiculous this will sound but here goes...

I embarked on a build that put 100 circuits in the same enclosure.

The company I do designs for makes power supplies as well. Their practice is to do 100% functional testing on each new design to verify the consistency of new parts and processes, and to go to lower levels of testing as the designs are proven. This means that they sometimes power massive numbers of pedals from adapters. I got a call from them one day, saying that one of our regulated adapters was showing a voltage at the pedal of only 7.2V. This struck them as odd because our adapters produce 9+ volts right up until they detect an overload of too much current, and then they shut down entirely and try to re-start. So there isn't any sagging happening. So they were puzzled by getting a partial voltage.

On the phone, I asked them if the adapter produced the correct voltage right at the adapter. It was 9+ volts there, as it should be, but the voltage out at one of the pedals was 7.2. and it was 8.3 at another one. They had connected multiple pedals on a daisy chain cable for ease of testing and only had one of the 9V adapters powering many pedaols.

When I asked the obvious question - exactly how many pedals and daisy chains are connected, they went to count and returned to tell me that nearly 200 (not a typo, really 200) were daisy chained in daisy chains of daisy chains. They were powering the ~200 pedals from one 9Vdc adapter, and the wire and connector resistance spreading the power out dropped the voltage out at the ends of the chains to 7.2. They rearranged the chains with more adapters in subsets and all was well. It was the distribution wiring that was the problem.

I relay that tale just to point out that (1) 9Vdc adapters that can work up to 1700-1900ma  do exist, and (2) in powering hundreds of anything, the distribution wiring may make a perfectly good power supply seem like a problem.

There are 2 halves.

I powered each separately and both worked.

I can't tell from your description -  do you mean something like 100 pedals, or 100 transistor sub-circuits?

The first half current draw is somewhere below 9V 800ma.
The second half current draw is somewhere below 9V 500ma.

I avoid advertising here, but I know for a fact that 9Vdc adapters that are designed for and work quietly with pedals do exist that can produce more than that 1300ma without straining.

I used 2 unregulated wall warts. A radioshack adapter and a Boss adapter.

That means the total current draw is somewhere below 1300ma. So now I want to combine them so I can use only 1 adapter.

The only 9V adapter I had above 1300ma is the Line 6 adapter for the Helix Stomp. It is a regulated switching 9V 3000ma normal center negative adapter. But for some reason, this did not power either side. Or what I heard was the effect not starting. I don't know what this means. This completely boggles me. Does it have something to do with the regulated vs unregulated?

The exact details do matter. It might have something to do with regulation and/or the differences in the two power supplies. It may also be something to do with the power wiring. It is very difficult to tell from the small amount of information we have.

[Esppse]

They are 86 different fuzzes, distortions, modulation fx, etc, all different pedal circuit layouts all shoved in one box. Simple jacks = In, Out, 9v. All star grounded, and power is star soldered too.

Perhaps you can recommend me the best adapter you may know of that can handle this current?

Thanks

[stallik]

I think RG is being politically correct. I don't have to be as I'm a user. Check out the 1 Spot adaptors.

[Esppse]

Ah I just purchased a Triad Magnetics adapter. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll report on this when it arrives.

[bluebunny]

I think RG is being politically correct. I don't have to be as I'm a user. Check out the 1 Spot adaptors.

+1

[Esppse]

OK the Triad Magnetics adapter is holding the 86 circuits current draw.

It is a switching adapter, I thought I bought the linear type, but whatever. There is noise, a squeal, I think because one of the effects is the bit crusher. Changing the bit crusher knob changes the squeal frequency which leaks whether or not the bit crusher is bypassed. Any ideas to dim the squeal? The effect is the Parasit Studio Sonic Reducer. Cool effect, I love it. Would a linear type power supply be better?

[R.G.]

You're running into a problem with zillion effect setups. I don't know the exact details of those specific pedal circuits, but no power supply can make up completely for the noise created by some circuits. It is very likely that the Bit Crusher or whatever is spitting noise back onto the shared power supply lines, including most especially ground. I've run into similar situations before.

You're also  (unconsciously, probably) committing a common sin - blaming all noise problems on the power supply. Power supplies can cause noise issues, sure, but just as often it's the circuit or some interaction between the circuit and the power supply, the circuit and another pedal, the circuit and the AC power line, or some mix of all of these. Given all this, expecting the power supply to cure them all is not always possible.

I can and have typed a lot of observations of power supply and noise issues and considerations into this forum and others., It's a big field. If the bit smasher is causing and changing a squeal in the 86 pedal setup, chances are good that the bit muncher is generating or participating in the noise, and deserves some close attention to local bypassing and some series impedance between itself and the rest of the power supplies.

If only one circuit does not play nice with the other pedals, it either needs some internal fixing to be more polite, or it needs its own isolated power supply. The need for isolated power supplies does occur with these "bad actors" but it's not nearly as common as many guitarists think,

[vigilante397]

I was waiting for R.G. to say it, as I don't consider it advertising, but the OneSpot is (in my opinion) the best wall-wart style power supply out there. The spec sheet on it says it will deliver 1700mA with a regulated 9V output, but I've (accidentally) sourced 2000mA out of it a couple times and it delivered.

Unfortunately recent changes in my board has pushed my net current draw to 2200mA, so I got a 9V 4A power supply, got a cheap 10 output power brick, gutted it, and put in a new PCB with 10x 7809 regulators with decoupling caps for each, and I now have a "regulator-isolated" power distro box that can handle up to 1.5A per output with up to 4A total. Lots of power without lots of noise

[Prehistoricman]

The only 9V adapter I had above 1300ma is the Line 6 adapter for the Helix Stomp. It is a regulated switching 9V 3000ma normal center negative adapter. But for some reason, this did not power either side. Or what I heard was the effect not starting. I don't know what this means. This completely boggles me. Does it have something to do with the regulated vs unregulated?

Thanks

My guess would be that the switching one is seeing over 3A drawn from however many capacitors are on its power supply and shutting off. Perhaps you could try starting with... say 20 and then adding the rest in groups.

R.G. makes a good point. Try moving the position of the bit crusher in the chain towards the supply.