Do you normally use Vero or Perf, or do you order Pedal specific PCBs

[GreySuits]

I'm just wondering what route most people go on here.  I'm new to pedal building, and have had a rough time with Vero so far.  Does any one make/print their own PCBs on here?

[merlinb]

Does any one make/print their own PCBs on here?

Yep. Once you go green, you never go back!

[antonis]

I usually let other people design/print their own PCBs and then modify them a bit..

[patrick398]

I have been using vero for many years, it certainly has it's drawbacks (layouts usually take up more space and are trickier to debug sometimes) but after a while you get the hang of it. The main appeal is that TagboardFX has thousands of predesigned board layouts so you're really spoiled for choice when you first start building. When it comes to making your own designs it is a bit of a pain though. The guys at tagboard have got the vero layout down to a fine art.
Perf has never appealed to me, seems so messy.
I don't usually buy pre made pcbs, they can be expensive and for me part of the fun is making the board,
I have just entered the world of designing my own pcb layouts which is fun once you get your head around a cad software like Eagle, Kicad, etc.

[roseblood11]

Vero board for the smaller circuits, sometimes pcb's for the bigger ones.
On the one hand, having all these pcb suppliers is great, as it makes things easy. On the other hand, it has become more boring than 10 years ago. Remember all those threads where beginners wanted to clone a famous pedal. Without a ready made pcb, they often ended with their own circuit. For many, this was the start for a "career" as a diy pedal builder. With all those kits or pcb's with build documents, it's a bit like Lego.
Or: Today it's like modern Lego, ten years ago it was like Lego in the 70s - you couldn't do everything, but you needed more creativity and the results were more unique.

[GibsonGM]

I build everything on perf.  If a circuit gets more complex than say, and Easyvibe - things can get complicated fast, LOL.   Thinking about layout ahead of time is important, but otherwise I find it suits everything I want to do.   Maybe I'm dating myself to the magic time 10 years ago!

[Derringer]

For anything custom, that I'm doing for myself, I'll use perf.
I don't even bother with layouts anymore. I build it on a breadboard, draw a schem, and go straight to perf.

If it's a production pedal that I want to build, I might just buy a pcb, like for the small clone I built.

[paul.creedy]

I'm enjoying using vero at the moment but I'm fairly new to it too, and all my builds have been pretty small so far.

I don't rule out trying anything, but making PCBs seems like a lot of extra work right now.

[Mark Hammer]

If there is a PCB layout available, and I have materials, I'll make the PCB.  Otherwise, I'll perf it, either on pad-per-hole boards or traditional bare brown perfboard.  Pad-per-hole provides nice stability, such that component leads won't fracture, but desoldering things can be a nuisance so be certain of your build.

I HATE vero.  I find it takes up more room than is really needed, because of how you need to lay things out.  Plus I find it is harder to follow the signal flow because of the connection-gymnastics that need to be done.

Sidenote, Tayda has recently started carrying a proto-board designed to provide all the relevant pads for an effect built into a 1590B enclosure.  It's a little pricey, and makes a number of assumptions about your layout, but provides a number of conveniences.  https://www.taydaelectronics.com/new-arrivals/protoboard-for-1590b-diy-pcb-guitar-effect.html

Then there's stuff like the pad-per-hole boards that Small Bear sells, intended for SBE's custom-made enclosures.

[DrAlx]

I always build on strip-board and like it because it's easy to modify a circuit after its built.
I only tried pad-board once and found it much less forgiving (pads becomeing unglued when trying to modify the circuit).

I wrote free software for doing Vero/Perf layouts that dynamically checks the connectivity as you lay out the circuit. So as long as you specify the netlist correctly (which can be done graphically within the tool) then it is impossible to make a layout with short circuits (the tool forbids it) and the tool will also show you any open circuits that you need to fix.
The software is geared towards how I build on vero.  I make breaks between holes, and use bent component leads to bridge adjacent strips together where needed.  You can get a very compact layout that way.
It's available from https://sourceforge.net/projects/veroroute/.

The software can also be used to produce single-sided toner-transfer style PCBs.  Next version (within a few weeks) will have a component editor.

As soon as I can find the time to do it, I'll be adding Gerber export so you can use the same software for PCB fab.

[Ripthorn]

For me it depends. Perf board is most common, but I have lately been doing some more complex, micro controller-based designs that I have been creating PCB's for and having made overseas. I can get 5 of a design for about $10 shipped from China and they are good quality boards. I have also used commercial PCB's for other projects that are more clones of other designs, like a KoT or other expensive drive pedal. Never used vero, it holds no appeal for me.

[Joncaster]

As a novice, I like perf.
It makes me concentrate on the nuts and bolts of the circuit, I feel its a nice work-flow and understanding.
But once it's all done, I would hate to replace a part.

I've only worked on one PCB for my Univibe, but I got a shop to fab it for me (simple, cheap but decent quality).
Had to order two on a card, so I still have a Univibe pcb lying around...hmm...

Not that keen on doing etching myself, just not a conducive living space for it.
But i stick to simple circuits mostly, so no need.

[davent]

For me a major part, maybe the most fun part of a build after painting the enclosure was designing and making a pcb. Actually finishing a build and trying it out was pretty anti-climatic.
dave

[Phoenix]

Yep. Once you go green, you never go back!

Yep, Kermit had it wrong. It's easy being green, it's just not easy becoming green (higher barrier to entry than perf/vero).
Once you've learnt to use an EDA like KiCAD, it's super easy.

[amptramp]

I normally use pre-patterned prototyping boards:



This gives you a set of connections suitable for IC's with power pins passing beneath the device and three pins worth of connections, one for the IC and two for external parts.  You can jumper over to other pads as required.  This one also has a connection for a DE-9 connector and a header strip and common power lines that run under the device.  This is easier to use than vero or pad-per-hole if you are using IC's.

[Derringer]

and I'm partial to these proto boards from futurlec as well
https://www.futurlec.com/Protoboards.shtml#PROTO777

[garcho]

have had a rough time with Vero so far

DEATH TO VERO            DEATH TO VERO               DEATH TO VERO                        DEATH TO VERO          DEATH TO VERO                    DEATH TO VERO                            DEATH TO VERO                              DEATH TO VERO                    DEATH TO VERO


Proto boards, like in the posts above, are my favorite way to go, if I'm not going to design the board and have it made for me. Busboard Prototype Systems makes some great boards that are similar but different to the ones Derringer and Amptramp posted. They can take soldering/de/re-soldering without the traces pulling up. Not cheap but over the years I've found it's been worth it.

Giant +1 to designing your own PCBs on something like EagleCAD and having a place like OSHPark make the boards for you. I think after all is said and done, it costs the same as etching, or sometimes even less, yet produces a much higher quality board, you don't have to deal with potentially dangerous chemicals or figure out how to dispose of them, and you spend WAY less time doing tedious crap like sanding forever, or oops, sanded too much, time to start over, etc. Maybe I just sucked at etching boards but I made a few dozen and while they all ended up working just fine, it was a frustrating experience over all. Once you get quick at using CAD software, learning the hotkeys and the menus, it becomes a new part of DIY that's actually really fun and rewarding (guess that makes me a nerd). Not only that, but then you can really dig into some theory and get into proper routing of currents and all that fun stuff. Good luck doing that with vero.

[287m]

If there is a PCB layout available, and I have materials, I'll make the PCB.  Otherwise, I'll perf it, either on pad-per-hole boards or traditional bare brown perfboard.  Pad-per-hole provides nice stability, such that component leads won't fracture, but desoldering things can be a nuisance so be certain of your build.

I HATE vero.  I find it takes up more room than is really needed, because of how you need to lay things out.  Plus I find it is harder to follow the signal flow because of the connection-gymnastics that need to be done.

Sidenote, Tayda has recently started carrying a proto-board designed to provide all the relevant pads for an effect built into a 1590B enclosure.  It's a little pricey, and makes a number of assumptions about your layout, but provides a number of conveniences.  https://www.taydaelectronics.com/new-arrivals/protoboard-for-1590b-diy-pcb-guitar-effect.html

Then there's stuff like the pad-per-hole boards that Small Bear sells, intended for SBE's custom-made enclosures.

ah, remind me of this

i do perfboard since hype of cmoy. Sijosae was my miniaturization guru. Then, see FCUK, cozybuilder, japanese mini builder and some perfwizard with their perfporn, i said to myself. This is the way i choose.

now, im go green, chinese double sided perf, just because more easy, thick and duck_arse use that for cordwood! something i need to finish.

and remember, you can always build vero style in perfboard, but not vice versa

[cab42]

I build most of my things on vero. It is mostly a matter of convenience. I don't have much free time to build, and if i also had to make the pcb's, I would never get anything finished.

I also like making the layouts, but after Tagboard effects came along, I sometimes take a shortcut and use their layout (or use them as inspiration)

I am collecting parts for a submini tube preamp with a smps, and I think I will try to make a pcb for that.

[duck_arse]

Does any one make/print their own PCBs on here?

Yep. Once you go green, you never go back!

indeed yes, since I started using the pre-sized green perf with plated thru holes, I've never looked back. or forwards.


[happy 200 posts, 287m, and the latest cordywood is 4 layers.]