Author Topic: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?  (Read 1763 times)

j_flanders

Does it matter which type I order or is anything with the right hfe (Q1:70 (-85), Q2:120 (-140)) and low leakage ok?
Or are some types unsuitable for a Fuzz face?
 
As far as I know these are my options in Europe.

https://www.musikding.de/Germanium-Transistors

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Germanium-Transistors/
https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

http://www.newtone-online.nl/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_35

Any recommendations? Maybe more importantly on what definitely not to get (if any)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 07:20:20 PM by j_flanders »

mac

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2019, 10:30:28 PM »
All ACxxx I bought from different sources are too leaky for FF.
But good for Maestro FZ1.

I like japs like Matsushita 2sb17x family, 2sd352, or Hitachi 2sb77, or Toshiba 2sb54/56.

Toshiba 2sa49/52/53 have the right gain and low leakage, but their internal capacitance is low. ACxxx have higher capacitance.

mac
mac@mac-pc:~$ sudo apt-get install ECC83 EL84

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 06:33:43 AM »
Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

And these for Q1:
https://www.musikding.de/GT2307-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/GT308-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/MP16-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE70-80_1

Are there other reputable, trustworthy shops in Europe that sell 'selected' ge transistors for a Fuzz face?

Steben

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 07:08:54 AM »
Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

And these for Q1:
https://www.musikding.de/GT2307-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/GT308-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/MP16-hFE70-80_1
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE70-80_1

Are there other reputable, trustworthy shops in Europe that sell 'selected' ge transistors for a Fuzz face?

banzai?

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/
Rules apply only for those who are not allowed to break them

diydave

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 07:10:45 AM »
Build a few ff's with ge-transistors from you're list of sources.
All sounded quite good in my ear  ???

I would not exclude them totally.
Trail & error + mix & match.

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 08:54:32 AM »
banzai?

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/

first post:
https://www.banzaimusic.com/Transistors-matched-selected/
;)

Those were my first choice originally but then I started reading about them and read AnalogMike's post over here, saying that no original Fuzz Face ever used AC128's and not ever did he come across AC128's that sounded any good, so I discarded them.

Where does the ac128 myth actually originate?

italianguy63

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 09:07:56 AM »
I've had great success with Russian GE's.  Search the forum for "Russian trannies" from a couple years ago... some great data and discussion in there.

MC
I used to really be with it!  That is, until they changed what "it" is.  Now, I can't find it.  And, I'm scared!  --  Homer Simpson's dad

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2019, 09:40:31 AM »
I've had great success with Russian GE's. 
Where in Europe can I order them (and be sure the seller correctly checks for hfe and leakage?)

italianguy63

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2019, 09:48:53 AM »
I've had great success with Russian GE's. 
Where in Europe can I order them (and be sure the seller correctly checks for hfe and leakage?)

They won't do HFE and leakage.  Find the article I wrote and there is a chart in there of the typical values.

I have always gotten mine on FleaBay... always out of E. Europe.  Usually Bulgaria, Romania, or USSR.  I've had great success with them.

I used to really be with it!  That is, until they changed what "it" is.  Now, I can't find it.  And, I'm scared!  --  Homer Simpson's dad

italianguy63

I used to really be with it!  That is, until they changed what "it" is.  Now, I can't find it.  And, I'm scared!  --  Homer Simpson's dad

Steben

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2019, 10:33:05 AM »
Where does the ac128 myth actually originate?

Well ...
They simply were used...
 
Quote from: fuzzcentral
The original versions of the Fuzz Face were equipped with PNP Germanium transistors. There were at least three types used: NKT275, AC128, and SFT363E. These three transistors are quite hard to come by these days.

Today we "choose our materials" and want a very good fuzz.
Original fuzz faces sounded different. There is this story that Hendrix tried some pedals and choose the good one. Probably that one had good trannies.

And sometimes you see Silicon fuzzes popping up that soudn fantastic. Silicon is reliable, gain selected, low leakage.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 10:35:03 AM by Steben »
Rules apply only for those who are not allowed to break them

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2019, 10:56:40 AM »
These are the posts I was referring to:

Quote
AC128

No :(

(imho)

The only fuzzface to ever use an AC128 is the terrible grey UK made reissue, and of those about 30% had at least one transistor installed upside down. Including the one pictured in the manual/sales flyer! But the sound was so bad it made little difference which way the trans were installed so they were not caught by the builder.

You will get much better tone with the small bear generics than any AC128 that I have ever tested.

Have fun!
maybe I was a little tough on AC128s for 2 reasons:

1) the misunderstanding that they were often used in the original pedals in the 60s (so far zero out of a few hundred germanium fuzzfaces I and my friends have seen have had AC128s)

2) all the AC128s I bought from several ebay and non ebay sources, and all the ones I pulled from over one hundred reissue UK made arbiter england fuzzfaces sound terrible and have poor specs. I lost a lot of money buying these. And I thought IF there were any good ones available in the UK, then the company making the the reissue fuzzfaces in the UK would be using the good ones.

have fun and be fuzzy!!!

duck_arse

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2019, 11:22:49 AM »
Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.
if only these clowns were a hoax.

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2019, 12:41:56 PM »
Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.
Thanks! It's not in Europe but the shipping cost is very reasonable and his transistors are cheap and he has a nice selection. And he seems to test for hfe and leakage. Definitely going to order from him when the shop reopens next week.


Steben

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2019, 02:51:27 PM »
Ivan, at diy-tubes.com, in russia. if you ask him nicely, tell him what you want, and he might select some trannies for you. he has some goood stuff.

J201 for 0.5$ !!!!!!
Rules apply only for those who are not allowed to break them

mac

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2019, 04:21:31 PM »
Quote
Thanks Mac.
Excluding all AC's from the shops above it leaves me with only one choice for Q2:
https://www.musikding.de/2SB178-hFE120-130_1

I don't know if those 178 are part of the 172-175-176 family.
I found this Matsushita 2sb178 (n)

https://m.donberg.ie/descript/2/2sb_178.htm

mac
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:23:04 PM by mac »
mac@mac-pc:~$ sudo apt-get install ECC83 EL84

j_flanders

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 04:34:49 PM »
I don't know if those 178 are part of the 172-175-176 family.
I found this Matsushita 2sb178 (n)

https://m.donberg.ie/descript/2/2sb_178.htm

mac
I have/had my doubts as well. When I come accross ge transistors I look them up over here. I get many hits for the 172-175's for FF's and only a few for 178's... So, they didn't seem like typical FF transistors. Although, I don't know if there such a thing as 'typical FF transistors"
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:39:55 PM by j_flanders »

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2019, 04:55:56 PM »
Well.. Arbiter only used NKT275s back in the day from what we know. I'd say they must be fairly typical.  :icon_mrgreen:


mac

Re: Which ge transistors (not) to get for a great sounding Fuzz face ?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2019, 06:33:52 PM »
I'd like to get some nkt275 to compare with japs, but I've never seen one of those here.
Lots of Matsushitas, Toshiba, Sanyo and Hitachi, ACxxx, AFxxx and ADxxx in my country.

I forgot to mention Sanyo 2sd72.

mac
mac@mac-pc:~$ sudo apt-get install ECC83 EL84