Noob Fuzz 69 Questions

[DJPsychic]

Hello there,

First time on the forum!

I just completed my first PCB kit Fuzz 69 (NPN Germanium) build from GGG. It actually (sort of) works!

I'd like to make a couple changes to the design based on a youtuber's version. I tried gathering as much info as I could from the video and comment section, but not sure what he's talking about.

As stated, I am a total noob, with little to no experience. The first thing I ever soldered was this Fuzz 69 kit, so be nice 

Here's the info:

"This build doesn't have the resistance in series with the fuzz cap but I did go with 15uf instead of 20uf..."

"The 8k2 is a trimmer"

"trimmer - bias 4.53 - 5"


Having trouble figuring out what the "15uf" component is. I'm guessing it's a cap, but all the "15uf" caps seem huge To me.

And what is the 8k2? I didn't seem to encounter that in this build.

I know these are all very obvious things to many of you, but Any insight would be super appreciated. Thank you!!

I'm really really excited to get deeper into making pedals, It's all I want to do now ha

[GibsonGM]

15uF = 15 microfarad cap   It's ok to play with that value, toss a 1uF there, 22uF, what have you to see what sounds good!  The values you listed are most common in that spot, tho.  That's a 'bypass cap', it allows AC to pass while blocking DC...simply put, it increases transistor gain.

8k2 is an 8.2K resistor.  European method of writing it, uses the unit where the " . " goes in the US.  Many fuzzes use an 8.2k from the collector of the transistor to 9V.   Yours may not - perhaps it's a 10k or something like that.   If you were to replace that resistor with a variable resistor (a 'trim pot'), you can dial in the amount of bias the transistor receives = tonal changes.   That is the "4.53 - 5"...voltage on the collector...

If you can post a link to the schematic you used next time, it'll make it easier to answer questions! 

Most importantly:  Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy the DIY experience! It's addictive for sure!

[DJPsychic]

My apologies,

Here is the diagram I used.




Also thank you for the welcome!

[GibsonGM]

Not a problem, DJ, it's a standard fuzz.  The 10k trim pot there is taking the place of what is often an 8.2k resistor, to let you dial in the bias point that sounds best to you! 

What is your next build going to be? 

[bool]

If you followed that picture, then;

- you already have the trimmer in (R5T)
- the 22uF cap (which supposedly to be replaced with a 15uF) is the C2

My suggestion: leave as it is and poke around, play with the bias setting (by adjusting the trimmer) and get to know how the components interact.

After a while, your wish to mod stuff will get fertilized by your newly developed instinct for electronics and will take you to the whole new level of awesome.

[DJPsychic]

If you followed that picture, then;

- you already have the trimmer in (R5T)
- the 22uF cap (which supposedly to be replaced with a 15uF) is the C2

My suggestion: leave as it is and poke around, play with the bias setting (by adjusting the trimmer) and get to know how the components interact.

After a while, your wish to mod stuff will get fertilized by your newly developed instinct for electronics and will take you to the whole new level of awesome.

Definitaley. I wired it the way it's laid out. I replaced the 33k with 22k, which was also in the youtuber's pedal. And I used some 2n229 Germaniums.

I'd like to give the the 15uf for the C2 a shot though, Can you point me to what kind of 15uf you would recommend? Or just a link to buy? , having trouble navigating the volatages, and materials etc..

And Yes, I can already feel the awesomeness. Trying to get a better grasp of actual schematics, they are still a little above my pay rate at the moment. TBH I haven't felt this excited about anything in a while haha, I can see it becoming my new obsession!

[DJPsychic]

Not a problem, DJ, it's a standard fuzz.  The 10k trim pot there is taking the place of what is often an 8.2k resistor, to let you dial in the bias point that sounds best to you! 

What is your next build going to be? 

With the 10k trim pot, can I just put a 8.2k in the same place?

And I'd like to convert this project to handwired P2P, or whatever it's called, before I move on. I'll probably keep digging into vintage fuzz/distortion/overdrive clones, not sure yet.

I like the idea of Germanium stuff, using old parts and such sounds fun.

[Kipper4]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on completing your first pedal.

May I suggest you buy some identical componants plus any possible modification parts too. i.e.
8k2 8200ohm R (resistor)
15uf cap. Should be available in a small enough package these days.
Tip you could try two parallel capacitors 2x 33uf iirc
Battery

You sound like an ideal candidate for a breadboard.
It's quick
Simple
Ideal for modification trials before a build.

I hope you loved making the project and wish you many happy years of discovery.
Kip

[willienillie]

Tip you could try two parallel capacitors 2x 33uf iirc

Series, you mean.  Two 33uF in parallel would be 66uF.

DJ, if the 15uFs you see are very large, they probably have a fairly high voltage rating.  Look for 16v or 25v parts.

[Kipper4]

Tip you could try two parallel capacitors 2x 33uf iirc

Series, you mean.  Two 33uF in parallel would be 66uF.

DJ, if the 15uFs you see are very large, they probably have a fairly high voltage rating.  Look for 16v or 25v parts.

Yup my mistake I'm a little rusty.
Thanks for spotting that.

[GibsonGM]

Breadboard.

A kit of 1/4 watt resistors  like this (I like the tan kind, easier to see the value markings!):  https://www.ebay.com/itm/VELLEMAN-K-RES-E3-480-PIECE-1-4-WATT-RESISTOR-KIT-10-OHM-10-MEG-OHM/282272825038?hash=item41b8c57ece:g:kT4AAOSwRLZT6rXz

10 each of 1uf, 10uf, 22uf electrolytic caps (plus your 15u if you want!).  25 to 50V rating is fine, most stuff we do is at 9V.

Eventually, a small poly cap kit like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/280pcs-30values-Polyester-Film-Capacitor-Assorted-Kit-Assortment-Set/271594762458?epid=1656304392&hash=item3f3c4f30da:g:6XcAAOSwRLZUBS0q

Do you have a multi-meter?  That is a must-have!

Small Bear electric has much of this stuff, great seller/very reliable good guy who is a forum member.  http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/

[DJPsychic]

Breadboard.

A kit of 1/4 watt resistors  like this (I like the tan kind, easier to see the value markings!):  https://www.ebay.com/itm/VELLEMAN-K-RES-E3-480-PIECE-1-4-WATT-RESISTOR-KIT-10-OHM-10-MEG-OHM/282272825038?hash=item41b8c57ece:g:kT4AAOSwRLZT6rXz

10 each of 1uf, 10uf, 22uf electrolytic caps (plus your 15u if you want!).  25 to 50V rating is fine, most stuff we do is at 9V.

Eventually, a small poly cap kit like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/280pcs-30values-Polyester-Film-Capacitor-Assorted-Kit-Assortment-Set/271594762458?epid=1656304392&hash=item3f3c4f30da:g:6XcAAOSwRLZUBS0q

Do you have a multi-meter?  That is a must-have!

Small Bear electric has much of this stuff, great seller/very reliable good guy who is a forum member.  http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/

Yep, I have a multi-meter!

I actually held that exact resistor set in my hand yesterday, almost bought, now I will. And yes, I will be buying 15uf haha, I want to recreate the pedal as exact as possible.

The Germaniums I did in fact get from Small Bear!

Last thing,I know the topic has been covered, but what type (material) Caps do you recommend for vintage type clones? This is probably a dumb question.

Thank you for all the info, it means a lot thank you!

[GibsonGM]

I personally like using electrolytic caps for values 1uF or higher, and those poly ones for anything smaller.  I try to get non-polarized electros when I can, but haven't ever really had any trouble with polarized ones.   But I bet there are a few people out there who feel there is some 'mojo' to using specific brands (like sprague and so on), so see if anyone jumps in!   

As you're finding out, buying the whole kit of R's, or C's, can be more cost-effective. 

The info on here is freely shared!  People enjoy helping each other, so need to thank me!    Other ppl helped me learn on my way up, we just pass it on!

[antonis]

But I bet there are a few people out there who feel there is some 'mojo' to using specific brands..

Not only brands but dielectric material, too..
Some more "advanced" people feel the bearing as the ultimate mojo..

So, for a self-respecting Fuzz69, the use of only Gudeman, paper, horizontally mounted (with a 6-9^o angle raised possitive side) capacitors is one-way..!! 

[GibsonGM]

(I think Antonis is joking, DJ!)     The originals WOULD have used paper foil capacitors, though.   

Some day if you have time and are so inclined, you could try some listening experiments...take an old old old 'orange drop' capacitor and use it in your guitar's tone control, vs. a new poly type.  See if you note any increased quality in the tone.   Most people can't, but a few people will fight about the difference and swear the tone is better.    And those tan, low-value ceramic disc capacitors CAN add some odd distortion, plus their value fluctuates a bit in use, IIRC.  Mostly that's stuff that's inaudible, however, way high up on the frequency scale that we can't hear.  To each their own!    Some say sliver mica caps sound sterile.  I dunno.  I like the poly type - they're cheap, easily available, good range of values!

[DJPsychic]

(I think Antonis is joking, DJ!)     The originals WOULD have used paper foil capacitors, though.   

Some day if you have time and are so inclined, you could try some listening experiments...take an old old old 'orange drop' capacitor and use it in your guitar's tone control, vs. a new poly type.  See if you note any increased quality in the tone.   Most people can't, but a few people will fight about the difference and swear the tone is better.    And those tan, low-value ceramic disc capacitors CAN add some odd distortion, plus their value fluctuates a bit in use, IIRC.  Mostly that's stuff that's inaudible, however, way high up on the frequency scale that we can't hear.  To each their own!    Some say sliver mica caps sound sterile.  I dunno.  I like the poly type - they're cheap, easily available, good range of values!

Haha, yes I sensed a the  sarcasm, but I did order some old stock stuff from Big bear last night, so he's not too far off!

[GibsonGM]

Nothing wrong with it   

[willienillie]

Polystyrene caps seem to have an increased high end presence, at least in some circuits.  Not harsh and unmusical, but glassy.  I built a rangemaster with those, had to pull them out, it was too much.  Cheap-ass green mylar chicklet caps sound about as good as anything in most pedal circuits.  I do use some mojo parts sometimes, usually stuff I have around already anyway, pulls from old equipment and whatnot.

[DJPsychic]

Polystyrene caps seem to have an increased high end presence, at least in some circuits.  Not harsh and unmusical, but glassy.  I built a rangemaster with those, had to pull them out, it was too much.  Cheap-ass green mylar chicklet caps sound about as good as anything in most pedal circuits.  I do use some mojo parts sometimes, usually stuff I have around already anyway, pulls from old equipment and whatnot.

Very cool thanks for the insight. I'm. Nerding out super hard on this stuff, can't wait to learn more and getting deeper Into it.

Just need to figure out how to read and execute schematics now 

[GibsonGM]

There is no wrong opinion, as you're seeing, DJ.  Yeah, I agree...the poly's are sometimes 'too faithful', they give 'perfect' response (maybe?)...so could perhaps seem 'shrill' in certain locations.  Sometimes I make the value bigger to overcome this, but that's moot.  Most of this mojo is in the ear of the beholder, and there's no set way to go about it!     You will want to experiment very much, try some vintage caps, some new stuff, some exotic $10 each maybe, ha ha.      I used to rip apart old stuff from the dump and get the paper foil caps, old orange drops, so my experimenting phase didn't cost much.   I DO like those orange drops in my guitars, but can't "quantify" why.   And old carbon comp resistors do help to add the vintage hiss into your circuits, LOL.

My advice is to take it slow, really LEARN what they're saying...you have to learn the 'parts' of the major components, like diode anode and cathode, or transistor base, collector, emitter...then you go on to learn how they function.   For now, knowing some of the rules to reading (and writing) schematics will get you working.  Then you can build nearly ANY effect discussed here!  If you check out tutorials like this, I bet in 3-6 mos you'll be an old pro with schematics!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HZ-EQ8Hc8E

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/understanding-schematics/