Author Topic: Shroom mic pre  (Read 517 times)

rankot

Shroom mic pre
« on: December 03, 2019, 12:40:58 PM »
This is not a stomp box topic, but it's close enough to put it here. Few years ago I've found this interesting schematic on the web:



It is transformerless balanced mic preamp, using two pentodes with common grid circuit, followed by two common cathode triodes. Original is designed around 6AK5 and 12AT7, I wanted to try it with EF86 (or Russian 6J32P) and 12A*7 (or Russian 6N2P). This is the PCB I've designed, comments are welcome! Still untested, but soon will be.

Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 12:43:07 PM »
I've also successfully simulated this using LND150 MOSFETs instead of EF86 tubes.
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

FUZZZZzzzz

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2019, 06:32:26 AM »
very cool! Ive always wanted to build a couple of mic preamps with tubes. will you also include phantom power?
"If I could make noise with anything, I was going to"

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2019, 06:58:27 AM »
I have two inputs here - one with phantom power, one without it. It could be done with a switch, but this input w/o PP also skips input capacitors.

I'm still considering what kind of power to use here - traditional or SMPS.

I also tried this as an all-JFET preamp, and it works, at least in ltspice, but the gain is lower than with tubes:
Code: [Select]
Version 4
SHEET 1 2608 1124
WIRE 736 16 608 16
WIRE 880 16 736 16
WIRE 1120 16 960 16
WIRE 1280 16 1120 16
WIRE 736 48 736 16
WIRE 1120 48 1120 16
WIRE 16 64 16 32
WIRE 16 64 -80 64
WIRE -80 96 -80 64
WIRE 16 96 16 64
WIRE 736 144 736 112
WIRE 1120 144 1120 128
WIRE 1184 144 1120 144
WIRE 1328 144 1248 144
WIRE 1456 144 1408 144
WIRE 1744 144 1456 144
WIRE 1120 160 1120 144
WIRE 16 224 16 176
WIRE 16 224 -176 224
WIRE 80 224 16 224
WIRE 224 224 144 224
WIRE 336 224 224 224
WIRE 496 224 432 224
WIRE 672 224 496 224
WIRE 816 224 736 224
WIRE 1072 224 816 224
WIRE 496 272 496 224
WIRE 1088 272 992 272
WIRE 1120 272 1120 256
WIRE 1120 272 1088 272
WIRE 1456 272 1456 144
WIRE 224 320 224 224
WIRE 816 320 816 224
WIRE 1088 320 1088 272
WIRE 992 336 992 272
WIRE 1744 368 1744 144
WIRE -176 416 -176 224
WIRE 496 416 496 352
WIRE 608 416 608 16
WIRE 608 416 496 416
WIRE 1888 416 1888 384
WIRE 1888 416 1824 416
WIRE 1936 416 1888 416
WIRE 224 464 224 400
WIRE 368 464 368 272
WIRE 368 464 224 464
WIRE 816 464 816 400
WIRE 816 464 368 464
WIRE 992 464 992 400
WIRE 992 464 816 464
WIRE 1088 464 1088 400
WIRE 1088 464 992 464
WIRE 1152 464 1088 464
WIRE 1456 464 1456 352
WIRE 1456 464 1232 464
WIRE 1488 464 1456 464
WIRE 1744 464 1744 448
WIRE 1744 464 1696 464
WIRE 1744 480 1744 464
WIRE 1888 496 1824 496
WIRE 1936 496 1888 496
WIRE 2128 496 2128 480
WIRE 224 528 224 464
WIRE 816 528 816 464
WIRE 1088 528 1088 464
WIRE 496 544 496 416
WIRE 992 544 992 464
WIRE 1888 544 1888 496
WIRE 2128 592 2128 576
WIRE 1456 608 1456 464
WIRE 368 672 368 464
WIRE 992 672 992 608
WIRE 1088 672 1088 608
WIRE 1088 672 992 672
WIRE 1120 672 1088 672
WIRE 1120 688 1120 672
WIRE -176 720 -176 496
WIRE -80 720 -80 176
WIRE -80 720 -176 720
WIRE 80 720 -80 720
WIRE 224 720 224 608
WIRE 224 720 144 720
WIRE 336 720 224 720
WIRE 496 720 496 624
WIRE 496 720 432 720
WIRE 656 720 496 720
WIRE 816 720 816 608
WIRE 816 720 720 720
WIRE 1072 720 816 720
WIRE 1184 784 1120 784
WIRE 1328 784 1248 784
WIRE 1456 784 1456 688
WIRE 1456 784 1408 784
WIRE 1744 784 1744 560
WIRE 1744 784 1456 784
WIRE 1120 816 1120 784
WIRE 1008 912 960 912
WIRE 1120 912 1120 896
WIRE 1120 912 1088 912
WIRE 1280 912 1280 16
WIRE 1280 912 1120 912
WIRE 1328 912 1280 912
WIRE 1408 912 1392 912
FLAG 736 144 0
FLAG 960 912 B+
FLAG 1408 912 0
FLAG 1488 464 0
FLAG 2128 592 0
FLAG 2128 480 B+
FLAG 16 32 48V
FLAG 1888 384 OUT
FLAG 1696 464 0
FLAG 1888 544 0
SYMBOL voltage -176 400 M0
WINDOW 123 24 124 Left 2
WINDOW 39 24 152 Left 2
SYMATTR Value2 AC ac 1.
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=600
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 .01 100)
SYMBOL res 208 304 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL res 208 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL res 480 256 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL cap 720 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL res 976 0 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL cap 736 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 832 416 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1104 32 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1072 416 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL res 480 528 R0
SYMATTR InstName R12
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL res 832 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R13
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL cap 720 704 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 1072 624 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R15
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL res 1104 800 R0
SYMATTR InstName R16
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1136 480 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R17
SYMATTR Value 2k2
SYMBOL res 1104 896 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 100
SYMBOL cap 1328 928 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL cap 1248 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL cap 1248 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL res 1424 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R14
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 1424 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R18
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 1472 704 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R19
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1472 368 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R20
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1952 512 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Load
SYMATTR Value 20k
SYMBOL voltage 2128 480 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 48
SYMBOL res 0 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R21
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL res -96 80 R0
SYMATTR InstName R22
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL cap 144 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C8
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 144 704 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C9
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL njf 432 272 M270
SYMATTR InstName J1
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 432 672 R90
SYMATTR InstName J2
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 1072 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName J3
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 1072 784 M180
SYMATTR InstName J4
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL cap 1008 400 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 1008 608 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C10
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL ind2 1840 400 M0
SYMATTR InstName L4
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 1760 352 M0
SYMATTR InstName L5
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 1760 464 M0
SYMATTR InstName L6
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMATTR Type ind
TEXT 2056 704 Left 2 !.include Tube_IM.lib
TEXT 2056 736 Left 2 !.tran 0 .5 .4
TEXT 2056 768 Left 2 !;.ac oct 32 10 100k
TEXT 2088 224 Left 2 !.param Ra 47k
TEXT 2088 320 Left 2 !.param RaT 22k
TEXT 2088 352 Left 2 !.param RcT 82
TEXT 2056 672 Left 2 !.include TubeLib.inc
TEXT 2088 192 Left 2 !.param Rk 3k3
TEXT 2056 800 Left 2 !.OPTIONS plotwinsize=0 numdgt=15
TEXT 2056 832 Left 2 !.fourier 1000 V(out)
TEXT 1808 304 Left 2 !K1 L4 L5 L6 1
TEXT 2096 272 Left 2 !;.step param RcT 50 300 50

And this is the tube - based:
Code: [Select]
Version 4
SHEET 1 2172 1124
WIRE 960 -16 752 -16
WIRE 1008 -16 960 -16
WIRE 1120 -16 1088 -16
WIRE 1280 -16 1120 -16
WIRE 960 16 960 -16
WIRE 1120 32 1120 -16
WIRE 288 96 288 64
WIRE 288 96 192 96
WIRE 960 112 960 80
WIRE 192 128 192 96
WIRE 288 128 288 96
WIRE 928 144 672 144
WIRE 1120 144 1120 112
WIRE 1184 144 1120 144
WIRE 1328 144 1248 144
WIRE 1456 144 1408 144
WIRE 1600 144 1600 112
WIRE 1600 144 1456 144
WIRE 672 176 672 144
WIRE 1120 176 1120 144
WIRE 784 224 720 224
WIRE 848 224 784 224
WIRE 1024 224 912 224
WIRE 1072 224 1024 224
WIRE 784 240 784 224
WIRE 288 256 288 208
WIRE 288 256 112 256
WIRE 352 256 288 256
WIRE 496 256 416 256
WIRE 608 256 496 256
WIRE 1456 272 1456 144
WIRE 496 288 496 256
WIRE 1024 320 1024 224
WIRE 1088 320 1088 272
WIRE 752 368 752 -16
WIRE 784 368 784 320
WIRE 784 368 752 368
WIRE 816 368 784 368
WIRE 928 368 928 144
WIRE 928 368 896 368
WIRE 112 416 112 256
WIRE 1600 416 1600 144
WIRE 496 464 496 448
WIRE 656 464 656 272
WIRE 656 464 496 464
WIRE 832 464 656 464
WIRE 1024 464 1024 400
WIRE 1024 464 832 464
WIRE 1088 464 1088 400
WIRE 1088 464 1024 464
WIRE 1152 464 1088 464
WIRE 1456 464 1456 352
WIRE 1456 464 1232 464
WIRE 1488 464 1456 464
WIRE 496 480 496 464
WIRE 1744 496 1744 480
WIRE 1872 496 1872 480
WIRE 832 528 832 464
WIRE 848 528 832 528
WIRE 928 528 928 368
WIRE 928 528 912 528
WIRE 1024 528 1024 464
WIRE 1088 528 1088 464
WIRE 784 576 784 368
WIRE 1744 592 1744 576
WIRE 1872 592 1872 576
WIRE 1456 608 1456 464
WIRE 656 672 656 464
WIRE 1088 672 1088 608
WIRE 112 688 112 496
WIRE 192 688 192 208
WIRE 192 688 112 688
WIRE 352 688 192 688
WIRE 496 688 496 640
WIRE 496 688 416 688
WIRE 608 688 496 688
WIRE 784 720 784 656
WIRE 784 720 720 720
WIRE 832 720 784 720
WIRE 1024 720 1024 608
WIRE 1024 720 896 720
WIRE 1072 720 1024 720
WIRE 672 784 672 768
WIRE 928 784 928 528
WIRE 928 784 672 784
WIRE 1120 784 1120 768
WIRE 1184 784 1120 784
WIRE 1328 784 1248 784
WIRE 1456 784 1456 688
WIRE 1456 784 1408 784
WIRE 1600 784 1600 496
WIRE 1600 784 1456 784
WIRE 1120 816 1120 784
WIRE 1008 912 960 912
WIRE 1120 912 1120 896
WIRE 1120 912 1088 912
WIRE 1280 912 1280 -16
WIRE 1280 912 1120 912
WIRE 1328 912 1280 912
WIRE 1408 912 1392 912
FLAG 1872 592 0
FLAG 1872 480 48V
FLAG 960 112 0
FLAG 960 912 B+
FLAG 1408 912 0
FLAG 1488 464 0
FLAG 1744 592 0
FLAG 1744 480 B+
FLAG 288 64 48V
FLAG 1600 112 OUT
SYMBOL voltage 112 400 M0
WINDOW 123 24 124 Left 2
WINDOW 39 24 152 Left 2
SYMATTR Value2 AC ac 1.
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=600
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 .01 100)
SYMBOL voltage 1872 480 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value 48
SYMBOL Misc\\triode 1120 224 R0
SYMATTR InstName U2
SYMATTR Value 6N2P
SYMBOL Misc\\tetrode 672 720 R90
SYMATTR InstName U1
SYMATTR Value ef86
SYMBOL res 480 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL res 480 352 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 500
SYMBOL res 480 464 R0
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 500
SYMBOL res 480 544 R0
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL Misc\\tetrode 672 224 M270
SYMATTR InstName U3
SYMATTR Value ef86
SYMBOL res 768 224 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL res 912 352 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value {Rg2}
SYMBOL cap 944 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL res 1104 -32 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL cap 912 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 1040 416 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1104 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1072 416 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL cap 912 512 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 768 560 R0
SYMATTR InstName R12
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL res 1040 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R13
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL cap 896 704 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 1072 624 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R15
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL Misc\\triode 1120 720 M180
SYMATTR InstName U4
SYMATTR Value 6N2P
SYMBOL res 1104 800 R0
SYMATTR InstName R16
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1136 480 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R17
SYMATTR Value 2k2
SYMBOL res 1104 896 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 100
SYMBOL cap 1328 928 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL cap 1248 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL cap 1248 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL res 1424 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R14
SYMATTR Value 30k
SYMBOL res 1424 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R18
SYMATTR Value 30k
SYMBOL res 1472 704 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R19
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1472 368 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R20
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1616 512 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Load
SYMATTR Value 20k
SYMBOL voltage 1744 480 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V3
SYMATTR Value 250
SYMBOL res 272 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R21
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL res 176 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R22
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL cap 416 240 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C8
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 416 672 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C9
SYMATTR Value 10
TEXT 1672 704 Left 2 !.include Tube_IM.lib
TEXT 1672 736 Left 2 !.tran 0 .5 .2
TEXT 1672 768 Left 2 !;.ac oct 32 10 100k
TEXT 1704 224 Left 2 !.param Ra 270k
TEXT 1704 256 Left 2 !.param Rg2 620k
TEXT 1704 320 Left 2 !.param RaT 100k
TEXT 1704 352 Left 2 !.param RcT 430
TEXT 1672 672 Left 2 !.include TubeLib.inc
TEXT 1704 192 Left 2 !.param Rk 2k7
TEXT 1672 824 Left 2 !.OPTIONS plotwinsize=0 numdgt=15
TEXT 1672 856 Left 2 !.fourier 1000 V(out)
TEXT 1672 888 Left 2 !;.option noopiter

JFET has approx 10 times less amplification than tube based.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 01:28:05 PM by rankot »
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 01:29:56 PM »
Schematic of JFET version:


Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 05:20:07 PM »
And PCB for JFET version. Comments are welcome!



« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 05:26:35 PM by rankot »
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

Marcos - Munky

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2019, 02:33:17 PM »
Both layouts looks very nice, I really liked those curved traces. I didn't checked everything against the schematic, but what I checked seems to be correct.

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2019, 06:13:14 PM »
What I'd like to do is to add a possibility that this JFET preamp is powered by phantom power, so it can be smaller (it uses only ~2mA), and perhaps made to work without additional power supply. But I have no idea how to do it. Help's welcome.  :-[
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

Marcos - Munky

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2019, 07:50:58 PM »
I don't know how much voltage a jfet can handle, but I know they can handle 24V, which is half of the phantom power voltage. Using a 7824 is not an option, since the max voltage input it can handle is 36V. But since the current is so small, a simple voltage divider probably can do the job. You know, that "vref" voltage dividers you can find on ic based overdrives. A voltage drop of 24V at 2mA will dissipate 48mW, so regular 1/4W resistors can be used.

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 04:41:52 AM »
I'm aware of that, and those JFET's I plan to use are actually J201. They can handle 40Vds and that can be easily achieved with simple voltage divider (not shown on schematic and PCB). But I was also thinking of use 2SK105, 2SK208 or 2SK209, which can handle 50Vds, so no divider's needed (maybe 48V Zener to protect them?). It's all quite obvious if we use separate power supply.

So, actually, I didn't made a good question - what really bothers me is how to "extract" 48V from phantom powered XLR, use that to power preamp, and then return the signal to the same XLR?
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

Marcos - Munky

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 07:52:56 AM »
I don't have any experience on phantom power, but is it just a 3 way jack with signal, ground and +48V, correct? If it is, I believe you can just connect R5 (100r resistor that goes to B+) to the xlr lug that have +48V (the one connected to R21 and R22).

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 08:10:42 AM »
Nope, I don't think it's gonna work like that. We have two outputs, one in opposite AC phase to another, and they 'float' 48V above ground. So we must extract that 'floating' DC voltage somehow and put it where it's needed, without pulling back AC component from the output.

 :icon_question:
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

tubegeek

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 08:13:28 AM »
The three connections are: two balanced audio signals (usually identical and 180 degrees opposed) and ground. The non-phantom send has the two audio signals referenced to OV, and the phantom option has them referenced to +48V. There are current limiting resistors in series with the +48 as well.

If you look on Rod Elliott/ESP's pages there's an article on powering electret mics off the phantom power that may be helpful. I've built a similar item but I must confess I do NOT understand how it works.

When I get to my laptop I'll show proper links & schematics, but if you're impatient, start at ESP. The project is titled something like "low cost measurement mic."
"The first four times, we figured it was an isolated incident." - Angry Pete

Kipper4

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:20:43 AM »
I ain't no muff builder boi.
Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:32:48 AM »
Saw that at ESP, there's one interesting page here too, but far above my electronics knowledge...  :-\

http://www.newportacoustics.com/gear/microphones/preamps

Maybe figure 7 from ESP gives the answer? Will try!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:36:19 AM by rankot »
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

tubegeek

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 09:14:49 AM »
Maybe this worth reading? Certainly the THAT Corp. app notes pages are WELL worth a look.

https://www.instructables.com/id/Build-the-Four-Channel-SSM2019-Phantom-Powered-Mic/#step1
"The first four times, we figured it was an isolated incident." - Angry Pete

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 11:09:44 AM »
OK, guys, this seems to do the trick (at least a part of it):



However, it can't forward 48V phantom power to the microphone, just 37.6V...

HELP!
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

Kipper4

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 01:58:07 PM »
Many electrets and phantom powered Mics will work with much less than 48V.



Still trying to get my head around it.
I ain't no muff builder boi.
Smoke me a Kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.

Grey Paper.
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/

rankot

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 02:09:57 PM »
ltspice model for phantom powered JFET preamp:

Code: [Select]
Version 4
SHEET 1 3184 1124
WIRE 736 16 608 16
WIRE 880 16 736 16
WIRE 1120 16 960 16
WIRE 1280 16 1120 16
WIRE 736 48 736 16
WIRE 1120 48 1120 16
WIRE -96 80 -96 48
WIRE 16 80 -96 80
WIRE -96 112 -96 80
WIRE 16 112 16 80
WIRE 736 144 736 112
WIRE 1120 144 1120 128
WIRE 1184 144 1120 144
WIRE 1328 144 1248 144
WIRE 1456 144 1408 144
WIRE 1728 144 1456 144
WIRE 1920 144 1728 144
WIRE 2480 144 1920 144
WIRE 2896 144 2800 144
WIRE 1120 160 1120 144
WIRE 1728 176 1728 144
WIRE 1920 176 1920 144
WIRE -96 224 -96 192
WIRE -96 224 -176 224
WIRE 80 224 -96 224
WIRE 224 224 144 224
WIRE 336 224 224 224
WIRE 496 224 432 224
WIRE 672 224 496 224
WIRE 816 224 736 224
WIRE 1072 224 816 224
WIRE 2480 240 2480 144
WIRE 2560 240 2480 240
WIRE 2800 240 2800 144
WIRE 2800 240 2720 240
WIRE 2480 256 2480 240
WIRE 2800 256 2800 240
WIRE 496 272 496 224
WIRE 1088 272 992 272
WIRE 1120 272 1120 256
WIRE 1120 272 1088 272
WIRE 1456 272 1456 144
WIRE 1920 288 1920 240
WIRE 1968 288 1920 288
WIRE 2560 304 2560 240
WIRE 2720 304 2720 240
WIRE 224 320 224 224
WIRE 816 320 816 224
WIRE 1088 320 1088 272
WIRE 1920 320 1920 288
WIRE 992 336 992 272
WIRE 2480 352 2480 336
WIRE 2496 352 2480 352
WIRE 2800 352 2800 336
WIRE 2800 352 2784 352
WIRE -176 416 -176 224
WIRE 496 416 496 352
WIRE 608 416 608 16
WIRE 608 416 496 416
WIRE 2560 416 2560 400
WIRE 2640 416 2640 144
WIRE 2640 416 2560 416
WIRE 2720 416 2720 400
WIRE 2720 416 2640 416
WIRE 1920 448 1920 400
WIRE 1952 448 1920 448
WIRE 2480 448 2480 352
WIRE 2480 448 2384 448
WIRE 2800 448 2800 352
WIRE 2800 448 2480 448
WIRE 224 464 224 400
WIRE 368 464 368 272
WIRE 368 464 224 464
WIRE 816 464 816 400
WIRE 816 464 368 464
WIRE 992 464 992 400
WIRE 992 464 816 464
WIRE 1088 464 1088 400
WIRE 1088 464 992 464
WIRE 1152 464 1088 464
WIRE 1456 464 1456 352
WIRE 1456 464 1232 464
WIRE 1488 464 1456 464
WIRE 1616 464 1600 464
WIRE 1728 464 1728 256
WIRE 1728 464 1696 464
WIRE 2384 496 2384 448
WIRE 2480 496 2480 448
WIRE 2560 496 2560 416
WIRE 1920 512 1920 448
WIRE 224 528 224 464
WIRE 816 528 816 464
WIRE 1088 528 1088 464
WIRE 496 544 496 416
WIRE 992 544 992 464
WIRE 2384 592 2384 560
WIRE 2480 592 2480 576
WIRE 2480 592 2384 592
WIRE 1456 608 1456 464
WIRE 2480 608 2480 592
WIRE 2560 608 2560 576
WIRE 2720 608 2720 416
WIRE 2720 608 2560 608
WIRE 2768 608 2720 608
WIRE 1920 624 1920 592
WIRE 1968 624 1920 624
WIRE 2560 624 2560 608
WIRE 2720 640 2720 608
WIRE 1728 656 1728 464
WIRE 368 672 368 464
WIRE 992 672 992 608
WIRE 1088 672 1088 608
WIRE 1088 672 992 672
WIRE 1120 672 1088 672
WIRE 1920 672 1920 624
WIRE 1120 688 1120 672
WIRE -176 720 -176 496
WIRE 16 720 16 192
WIRE 16 720 -176 720
WIRE 80 720 16 720
WIRE 224 720 224 608
WIRE 224 720 144 720
WIRE 336 720 224 720
WIRE 496 720 496 624
WIRE 496 720 432 720
WIRE 656 720 496 720
WIRE 816 720 816 608
WIRE 816 720 720 720
WIRE 1072 720 816 720
WIRE 2560 720 2560 704
WIRE 2720 720 2720 704
WIRE 2720 720 2560 720
WIRE 2560 736 2560 720
WIRE 1184 784 1120 784
WIRE 1328 784 1248 784
WIRE 1456 784 1456 688
WIRE 1456 784 1408 784
WIRE 1728 784 1728 736
WIRE 1728 784 1456 784
WIRE 1920 784 1920 736
WIRE 1920 784 1728 784
WIRE 2896 784 2896 144
WIRE 2896 784 1920 784
WIRE 1120 816 1120 784
WIRE 1008 912 960 912
WIRE 1120 912 1120 896
WIRE 1120 912 1088 912
WIRE 1280 912 1280 16
WIRE 1280 912 1120 912
FLAG 736 144 0
FLAG 1488 464 0
FLAG 2560 736 0
FLAG 2480 608 0
FLAG 2640 144 V48
FLAG 1600 464 0
FLAG 1952 448 0
FLAG -96 48 V48
FLAG 1968 288 OUT+
FLAG 960 912 B+
FLAG 2768 608 B+
FLAG 1968 624 OUT-
SYMBOL voltage -176 400 M0
WINDOW 123 24 124 Left 2
WINDOW 39 24 152 Left 2
SYMATTR Value2 AC ac 1.
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=600
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 .01 100)
SYMBOL res 208 304 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL res 208 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value {Rk}
SYMBOL res 480 256 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL cap 720 48 R0
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 22
SYMBOL res 976 0 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL cap 736 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 832 416 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1104 32 R0
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1072 416 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL res 480 528 R0
SYMATTR InstName R12
SYMATTR Value {Ra}
SYMBOL res 832 624 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R13
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL cap 720 704 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 100n
SYMBOL res 1072 624 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R15
SYMATTR Value {RcT}
SYMBOL res 1104 800 R0
SYMATTR InstName R16
SYMATTR Value {RaT}
SYMBOL res 1136 480 R270
WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName R17
SYMATTR Value 2k2
SYMBOL res 1104 896 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName Rcurrent
SYMATTR Value 1
SYMBOL cap 1248 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL cap 1248 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 470n
SYMBOL res 1424 128 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R14
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 1424 768 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R18
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL res 1472 704 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R19
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1472 368 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R20
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 1936 416 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Load
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL voltage 1712 464 R90
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Phantom
SYMATTR Value 48
SYMBOL cap 144 208 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C8
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 144 704 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C9
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL njf 432 272 M270
SYMATTR InstName J1
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 432 672 R90
SYMATTR InstName J2
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 1072 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName J3
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL njf 1072 784 M180
SYMATTR InstName J4
SYMATTR Value J201
SYMBOL cap 1008 400 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 1008 608 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C10
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL npn 2496 304 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value BC549B
SYMBOL npn 2784 304 M0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value BC549B
SYMBOL res 2496 352 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 100k
SYMBOL res 2576 720 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 470k
SYMBOL res 2784 352 M180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 100k
SYMBOL cap 2736 704 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C11
SYMATTR Value 100
SYMBOL res 2496 592 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R23
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL cap 2400 560 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C12
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL res 1712 160 R0
SYMATTR InstName R24
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL res 1744 752 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R25
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL cap 1936 240 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL cap 1936 736 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C13
SYMATTR Value 10
SYMBOL res 1936 608 R180
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName Load1
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res -112 96 R0
SYMATTR InstName R21
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL res 0 96 R0
SYMATTR InstName R22
SYMATTR Value 6k8
SYMBOL res 2544 480 R0
SYMATTR InstName R27
SYMATTR Value 10k
TEXT 2056 608 Left 2 !.include Tube_IM.lib
TEXT 2056 640 Left 2 !.tran 0 .5 .4
TEXT 2056 672 Left 2 !;.ac oct 32 10 100k
TEXT 2056 328 Left 2 !.param Ra 150k
TEXT 2056 424 Left 2 !.param RaT 33k
TEXT 2056 456 Left 2 !.param RcT 82
TEXT 2056 576 Left 2 !.include TubeLib.inc
TEXT 2056 296 Left 2 !.param Rk 3k3
TEXT 2056 704 Left 2 !.OPTIONS plotwinsize=0 numdgt=15
TEXT 2056 736 Left 2 !.fourier 1000 V(out)
TEXT 2064 376 Left 2 !;.step param RcT 50 300 50
Ampegulator, Bassballs, Bazz Fuss, Bearhug Compressor, Bronx Cheer, Clean Sweep, Demeter Compulator, Electra Distortion, Engineer's Thumb, Hybrid Fuzz, Orange Squeezer, ProCo Rat, Ross Compressor, Valvecaster, 6J6, SFT 2, Ugly Face, more to come...

garcho

Re: Shroom mic pre
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 04:26:02 PM »
Rankot, I've built that mic pre a few times, it's a great utility mic pre, zero complaints. There are a couple other designs he has that I've also built, they are almost all straight ahead and not any more complicated than say a phaser or delay or something like that. I don't think it's above your head, if you want, when I'm back home in a week or two, I can see if I have a layout laying around, or a breadboard diagram.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:28:05 PM by garcho »
"...and weird on top!"