3-knob Fuzz Layout for newbz?

[DJPsychic]

edit:

yes connected cap to lug 3/Q2 and masssive increase. would a B1k work here? I don't think I have any other C1's

thanks again

[nocentelli]

Short answer - Yes, you need lug 1 and 3 of the fuzz pot connected for the cicuit to work at all: This gives you a fixed resistance of 1k from Q2 emitter to ground which biases the transistor, giving it a DC path to ground. Input cap value won't make a huge difference, much bigger and it will get too bass heavy and woolly, much less than 1u and it will lose that bassy, woolly fuzzyness and start sounding more like a distortion pedal (many mods recommend a lower cap for this exact reason, though). C taper pot is best, B taper next best, A taper will be non-ideal but any taper will "work" as long as the value of the pot is 1k.

Longer explanation - The fuzzface gain pot works by allowing variable lower resistance AC path to ground from the emitter through the cap: This boosts gain but does not alter the DC bias (since caps "block" DC). The fuzzface gain pot has most of the gain boost bunched up in the last few hundred ohms of resistance. A, B and C pot suffixes are just indicators of the taper of the pot. C taper pots ("reverse audio/reverse log") effectively spread the "last" few hundred ohm range of resistance over a larger portion of the pot's physical rotation, giving finer control where needed at the expense of fine control at the start of rotation. B taper is linear and spread of resistance is.... linear. A taper is audio, where the change in resistance suits the perceived change in loudness in response to power increase. This is why output volume pots tend to work best with audio taper pots.

[DJPsychic]

Short answer - Yes, you need lug 1 and 3 of the fuzz pot connected for the cicuit to work at all: This gives you a fixed resistance of 1k from Q2 emitter to ground which biases the transistor, giving it a DC path to ground. Input cap value won't make a huge difference, much bigger and it will get too bass heavy and woolly, much less than 1u and it will lose that bassy, woolly fuzzyness and start sounding more like a distortion pedal (many mods recommend a lower cap for this exact reason, though). C taper pot is best, B taper next best, A taper will be non-ideal but any taper will "work" as long as the value of the pot is 1k.

Longer explanation - The fuzzface gain pot works by allowing variable lower resistance AC path to ground from the emitter through the cap: This boosts gain but does not alter the DC bias (since caps "block" DC). The fuzzface gain pot has most of the gain boost bunched up in the last few hundred ohms of resistance. A, B and C pot suffixes are just indicators of the taper of the pot. C taper pots ("reverse audio/reverse log") effectively spread the "last" few hundred ohm range of resistance over a larger portion of the pot's physical rotation, giving finer control where needed at the expense of fine control at the start of rotation. B taper is linear and spread of resistance is.... linear. A taper is audio, where the change in resistance suits the perceived change in loudness in response to power increase. This is why output volume pots tend to work best with audio taper pots.

Thank you again for taking the time to go through it with me. I see what you mean with the B1k, the last bit of a turn is where all the fuzz is hiding. Will try and source another C1k.

Excited to try different components. I have some germanium transistors, will try the Fuzz Face calculator and all that.

Does smallbear have a tutorial on how to convert breadboard to perfboard?

[nocentelli]

I'm not sure about perfboard tutorials, being strictly stripboard myself. However, I have read many pedal builders claim that perf is way easier to layout (compared to strip board) because you can simply translate the schematic into physical connections with no need for jumpers and cuts and the brain-twisting thought processes that laying out a stripboard entails (although I quite enjoy it.... ).

I guess you would need to sketch the schematic on the non-copper side of the perf, respecting the required hole-spans for each component, and soldering the parts in one at a time, connecting each to the previous component as you go.

[DJPsychic]

I'm not sure about perfboard tutorials, being strictly stripboard myself. However, I have read many pedal builders claim that perf is way easier to layout (compared to strip board) because you can simply translate the schematic into physical connections with no need for jumpers and cuts and the brain-twisting thought processes that laying out a stripboard entails (although I quite enjoy it.... ).

I guess you would need to sketch the schematic on the non-copper side of the perf, respecting the required hole-spans for each component, and soldering the parts in one at a time, connecting each to the previous component as you go.

I have both so maybe I'll try strip board firs . thank you for you guidance kind sir.

[Electric Warrior]

Ok, so I think I measured the collectors right

Q1 = .53

Q2 =1.24

Looks a lot like the base voltages of a silicon fuzz face. As you're trouble shooting right now, voltages of all the transistor leads could be useful.

[DJPsychic]

I put in a pair of Germanium NPN transistors , sounds great. Might try and figure out a bias or tone knob to smooth things out. . I appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge 

[DJPsychic]

You can also just take any 2-knob fuzz layout, of which there are thousands, and add Mark Hammers Patented Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (not really patented) between the output of the board and the Volume pot. I would suggest a Jordan Bosstone with red or, even better, bright blue LED's as clipping diodes for this. One of my favorite fuzzes, easy to build, sounds great and there is a perf layout here:

https://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2014/11/jordan-bosstone.html

Anyone have a FF schematic with the SWTC included, or is it just as easy as adding before VOL pot?

[DJPsychic]

http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm

Very detailed explanation on how to breadboard from a schematic: It's a fuzzface, but the key principles are useful

(sorry to bug you again  )

So I got this successfully bread boarded, sounds great, now trying to find a decent layout to build to help plan my strip board. But most of the layouts I come across seems to have the C1 Ground connected to input? The smallbear breadboard has input into + end of C1.

Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?

[j_flanders]

But most of the layouts I come across seems to have the C1 Ground connected to input? The smallbear breadboard has input into + end of C1.

The orientation of that polarized capacitor depends on the polarity of the power supply. And that depends on the type of transistors used.
It's the other way around for pnp transistors (usually germanium and positive ground) than for npn transistors (usually silicon and negative ground).

C1 is that 2.2uF cap.
The same rules apply for the 20uF cap on the fuzz pot.

PNP germanium positive ground:


NPN silicon negative ground:

[DJPsychic]

The orientation of that polarized capacitor depends on the polarity of the power supply. And that depends on the type of transistors used.
It's the other way around for pnp transistors (usually germanium and positive ground) than for npn transistors (usually silicon and negative ground).

C1 is that 2.2uF cap.
The same rules apply for the 20uF cap on the fuzz pot.

I'm an idiot, I had the 2.2uf input reversed on my breadboard 

Still sounded good? weird

[bluebunny]

I'm an idiot, I had the 2.2uf input reversed on my breadboard 

Still sounded good? weird

It wouldn't stop it working, and given the low voltages in that area, it may be a while before the cap complains (I'm sure Paul would explain it better).  Putting it backwards across the whole power supply is a whole nuther matter!   

[nocentelli]

Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?

This is nice and small -



Values seem to match the smallbear schematic too

[DJPsychic]

Do you or anyone have a solid FF layout that somewhat mimics the smallbear, or am I just reading everything wrong?

This is nice and small -



Values seem to match the smallbear schematic too

Awesome man thank you, I'm gonna give it a shot tomorrow!

[DJPsychic]

Last question, I promise. Is there a universal way to wire the 3pdt?

[bluebunny]

Yeah, several. 

I've always used the Tonepad schemes and never had a problem.

[DJPsychic]

Yeah, several. 

I've always used the Tonepad schemes and never had a problem.

Lol gotcha

Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED, not sure if that's a thing. I can do LED but I don't really need/want.

[j_flanders]

Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED

The 3P stands for 3 poles. 3 places you want to switch: input, output, led.
The DT stands for Double Throw. Double/Two positions: Input connected to the circuit(1) or to the output(2). LED connected to power(1) or not(2). etc.
Without a LED you can either use a 2PDT or buy the slightly more expensive 3PDT and don't use the row of pins on the switch you'd normally use for the LED.:
Leave out the blue connections on the right to the LED and +9V

[DJPsychic]

Having trouble finding a straightforward 3PDT NPN layout without LED

The 3P stands for 3 poles. 3 places you want to switch: input, output, led.
The DT stands for Double Throw: Two positions. Input connected to the circuit or to the output. LED connected to power or not. etc.
Without a LED you can either use a 2PDT or buy the slightly more expensive 3PDT and don't use the row of pins on the switch you'd normally use for the LED.:
Leave out the blue connections on the right to the LED and +9V

I have some 3PDTS that I'll be using. Following the the diagram, I can just skip the lug labeled "to LED" and I'm good? Just want to make sure before I start soldering. 

[j_flanders]

Following the the diagram, I can just skip the lug labeled "to LED" and I'm good? Just want to make sure before I start soldering. 

Yes,
AND
No need to bring the 9V to the switch as it will connect to nothing there without the LED, so leave that out as well: