Author Topic: Xvive optocouplers no label  (Read 1179 times)

Elijah-Baley

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Xvive optocouplers no label
« on: May 06, 2020, 10:04:30 AM »
Hello guys. Quickly question.
I received, in late because it wasn't available, a optocouplers VTL5C2 by Xvive, and it looks like this:



No label except that. The other side is blank. How I can know if that's right? It supposed should look like that? ???

Thank you!
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mcknib

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 11:48:36 AM »
The one's I've got from Thonk don't have the type number on them just exactly the same as yours

The bag it came in was labelled and with them being a reputable supplier I didn't think anything of it

All of the vactrols I've received from them worked as expected the last build being a deluxe pitch pirate

Now and again just for the hell of it I'll use the datasheet to test them but they're not exactly precise so you do get varying results even if you test under the exact same conditions as the datasheet 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 12:10:33 PM by mcknib »

antonis

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 03:39:54 PM »
Usually Collector is on the facing side of LED+..

Connect LED+ and Collector to 5V with 150R and 10k resistors respectively in series, ground both LED cathode and Emitter and measure VCE..

By varying 150R value you must take different measurements..
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bluebunny

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 04:12:00 PM »
Usually Collector is on the facing side of LED+..

Collector??  In a photocell?  ???
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bluebunny

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 04:20:19 PM »
BTW, the Xvive datasheets (which you can find at Thonk) seem to indicate a system of coloured dots to distinguish between the flavours of optocoupler (5C1 vs. 5C3 etc.).  Does your 5C2 have a green dot?
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antonis

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 05:05:00 PM »
Collector??  In a photocell?  ???
In a photocell, no..
In an optocoupler, yes..
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ElectricDruid

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 05:10:26 PM »
Looks right to me. Here's the ones we've got, direct from the manufacturer:



This is a VTL5C3. It has two yellow dots. I dunno how the rest of the system works!

Elijah-Baley

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 04:19:58 AM »
No dots on my VTL5C2. It is exactly like in the picture I posted, it's not my picture, but that's it.
No labels on the bags neither, oddly, because this shop always do it. I guess I can say it, the shop is Banzai Music.

Thanks for the link with the datasheet. Those are not very clear, but I can see:
5C1: No dot
5C2: One green dot
5C3: One yellow dot (ElectricDruid's picture)
5C4: One white dot
5C6: No dot (also this whthout dot?)
5C9: One red dot

So, I see two modele without any dots, while the VTL5C2 should have one green dot. And I can see on Banzai Music that the VTL5C2 is still not available (are they finished again?), while the VTL5C1 (the one without dot) are available.

Should I contact the shop? I'm a bit suspicious about this optocoupler, now. Indeed, in the picture (though sometime are generic picture)  I can see the green dot: http://www.banzaimusic.com/xvive-vtl5c2.html
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ElectricDruid

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 05:13:42 AM »
The other variation is that Xvive supply both RoHS and non-RoHS versions of their vactrols. So possibly their dot code allows for that too. The VTL53C I posted is RoHS. Maybe that's why it has two dots? (yellow dot = 5C3, two dots=RoHS??)

bluebunny

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 08:57:36 AM »
I guess you should be able to test it easily enough?  You should be able to measure a resistance between the two non-LED leads.  And you should be able to activate the LED by applying a voltage to the other two leads (make sure you limit the current).  Varying the voltage should result in the resistance changing.
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antonis

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 09:44:10 AM »
You should be able to measure a resistance between the two non-LED leads.

As far as you're sure it's a photoresistor and not phototransistor..
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bluebunny

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 10:55:30 AM »
You should be able to measure a resistance between the two non-LED leads.

As far as you're sure it's a photoresistor and not phototransistor..

But that's exactly what these Vactrols are: LED + LDR.
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antonis

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 11:05:50 AM »
In such a case, OP's description as "optocouplers" is deceptive..

So, are calling Elijah-Baley a LIΑR..??? :icon_mrgreen:
"I'm getting older while being taught all the time" Solon the Athenian..
"I don't mind  being taught all the time but I do mind a lot getting old" Antonis the Thessalonian..

Elijah-Baley

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 11:43:39 AM »
In such a case, OP's description as "optocouplers" is deceptive..

So, are calling Elijah-Baley a LIΑR..??? :icon_mrgreen:

Well I call it optocouplers just because I see it on the web site where I used to buy them, a pair of time. ;)
I thought it was LED + LDR, I guess. Indeed, if I don't use the Vactrols I have to use right those, usually closed by a tube heatshrink.

I guess you should be able to test it easily enough?  You should be able to measure a resistance between the two non-LED leads.  And you should be able to activate the LED by applying a voltage to the other two leads (make sure you limit the current).  Varying the voltage should result in the resistance changing.

I could try to do it, I have to understand exaclty how to do it. It's the first time and I don't want to damage this thing.

The other variation is that Xvive supply both RoHS and non-RoHS versions of their vactrols. So possibly their dot code allows for that too. The VTL53C I posted is RoHS. Maybe that's why it has two dots? (yellow dot = 5C3, two dots=RoHS??)

I'm not sure about the difference of RoHS and non-RoHS, I guess I don't need the double dot. The color seems important to identify the number. The 2 in my case.

I just hope they haven't cheated, because I ordered one more than a month ago all the stuff I wanted, included the VTL5C2 (indeed, it was available), but they after they couldn't send it said it wasn't available. I have to wait for that and I received all the rest, but that was ok.
I heard them via e-mail because a wrong color enclosure and they said that the VTL5C2 was available in the next week. But I waited two weeks without news, so I asked them about the VTL5C2. They said they would send it the next day, and I received the delivery notification that same day. Finally yesterday I got this optocoupler I found werid. Today I checked on the web site, the VTL5C2 is out of stock. The VTL5C1, the one on the stock that should be without dot, are available.

If I can't be sure about it after I tried to measure it, probably, I'll write them to ask about this suspicious VTL5C2, but if they will tell me simply that's the right one, I can't do anything but keep it, hoping it's the right one and it will be ok anyway. I wanted it was the right one, not simply one that could be fine with the circuit I want to build (Tremulus Lune).
«There is something even higher than the justice which you have been filled with. There is a human impulse known as mercy, a human act known as forgiveness.»
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bluebunny

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 04:50:23 PM »
Xvive call them opto-isolators.  Everyone calls them Vactrols.  We all knew what E-B meant.

I guess you should be able to test it easily enough?  You should be able to measure a resistance between the two non-LED leads.  And you should be able to activate the LED by applying a voltage to the other two leads (make sure you limit the current).  Varying the voltage should result in the resistance changing.

I could try to do it, I have to understand exaclty how to do it. It's the first time and I don't want to damage this thing.

One side is an LED, so you just need to make sure you have a CLR in series with it so you don't burn it - just as you would with any LED.  And get the polarity right (this is marked).  If you additionally put a trimmer or pot in series with the CLR and the LED, you can vary the brightness.  You should then see a corresponding variation in resistance across the other two terminals.  If you do, then it's OK.
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Elijah-Baley

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2020, 03:08:02 AM »
Thanks, bluebunny. I still didn't try it, I'll do later.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure it will work. My problem is about the model. Without any indication (I expected a green dot looking at the picture on the shop site and the datasheet) I can't be sure it's the right Vactrol, and the shop, thought it sent me this ten days ago and I received two days, from two days the VTL5C2 I ordered is not available. I hope I wrong, but it could be is a VTL5C1.

A mistake can happen, of course, but I want to be a bit more sure before write o the shop. Some months ago they sent me three 1w resistors (I never will use) in place of three knobs. And the label on the bag says "Knobs"! :o
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mph

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2020, 11:12:32 AM »
Hi
I've bought a bunch of those Xvive vactrols 5C1 5C3 and 5C10; no labels...
I've tested all of them, compared to originals PerkinElmer vactrols and DIY vactrols too...
None of the Xvive stuff matches the datasheets and none of their vactrols share the same specs; I feel they are just some GL5516 LDRs thrown in the plastic case with some generic 3mm LEDs.
Totally unusable!

Could be fun to have graphs from users concerning these so called vactrols... they smell like snake oil.

Better go full DIY for a new design, or buy real expensive VTL if it's for repair.
Yes the originals VTLs have a major problem: the old LEDs used in the real vactrols are so inefficient than you need around 20mA to have a minimal resistance... no suited for battery powered pedals.

Elijah-Baley

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2020, 12:33:14 PM »
Xvive Useless? :o

I bought it for a Tremulus Lune for a friend. In the pedal of mine I sed a Vactrol bought some years ago from Musikding, it's labelled differently, it's not Xvive and it is labelled VTL5C2 and other text. It works fine, anyway.
I try to test this Xvive with the new circuit, but I will touch my pedal.
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Elijah Baley in Isaac Asimov's The Cave Of Steel

ElectricDruid

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2020, 01:20:07 PM »
Totally unusable!

Don't agree. I used them for my FilterFX pedal and it's fine. Lots of people have built it too, and theirs are fine too. In fact, it's a pretty simple pedal to get up and running. The DigiDelay causes more email than that one.

I haven't tested them against their datasheets, but I haven't seen anything outside what I was expecting either. I'd expect a good amount of variability, but that's typical and can be designed for. To say they're unusable is just not true.

mph

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Re: Xvive optocouplers no label
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 03:53:47 PM »
 ;D sorry if I offended someone.
I mean those xvive are useless as replacement, to be used in a new design, in a repair case or "easy" component swap in a build.
They perform like an average DIY vactrol at five times the cost, but you cannot rely on the datasheet for its specs... meaning you have to work a bit to adapt the LED driver or the LDR range to get something controlled out of it.
I'm pretty upset about that, I thought those cheaper vactrols were an easy solution to implement opto control in my designs, that could be reproduced in small series.
But no luck with the ready made junk; I stick to my test rig to measure and wrap DIY vactrols with custom specs I need... long work but at the end everything acts fine, is tweakable and is reproductible.

Just take some time and measure resistance versus mA in a wide range, say 0.01mA to 10mA. Then trace a curve. You'll get some surprises.